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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2023
- On this week's episode of That's F***ed Up Podcast, we comedian and actor Aries Spears.
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Jordan is the G.O.A.T.
Jordan is just the first iteration of the new SG. He never becomes MJ in todays league.
@@shadow2123 yeah right 🤣
@@shadow2123Jordan averaged 45-50 today lol the man averaged 37 with a hand check
@@shadow2123yea this nba that doesn't play defense mj would be 10-0 in finals in this nba everyone nice and painting they nails lol😅 making super teams lol imagine if Jordan ganged up with Hakeem and Barkley but they was real men and got it out the mud
@@hernandezmarkie7382 no he wouldnt, he wouldn’t even make 10 finals. MJ never had to play guards like we have today. We know this because the guys you just named! Not one is a guard that had to guard MJ! Not one was a guard that MJ had to guard. MJ’s best comp was centers bro! He didn’t have to deal with wing guards at all.
MJ ( Period)
Lebron needs more help y’all!!!!!
@@stvnoahc7249 How you gonna be the GOAT when you begging for help? Good comment.
So MJ taking MJ? Great choice.
@@stvnoahc7249naw She don’t Queen Victoria Elizabeth James don’t need no help
Jordan the goat, hands down
MJ is the best! The game was a lot harder than it is today. Players were much rougher back in Jordan's day and before.
Jordan is a Rolls-Royce, kobe is a Bentley , and labron is a lexus. 🎯
Lebron is a Honda Accord
LeBron is a Chevy Cavalier 😂
@@Bob-te3le Range Rover. Looks great. Seemingly well made. But notoriously unreliable and when it counts. Breaks down.
@@TheHoopGod_23 nope. You are being too generous. Hondas are reliable and don’t fail.
That’s why Dirk’s win over Lebron, DWade and Bosh was very impressive.. how can u lose to Dirk when u have a great crew? That just eliminates Lebron from the GOAT convo..
he was never apart of the conversation
That Dallas team literally swept the defending champion lakers and Kobe 🤔
No team is supposed to win a ring plus Jordan didn't just play 6 yrs people only focus on win he won but it's a fact wen Jordan had no help they went no where yet u give LeBron same shitty talent n he gets them to the finals yeah I want that guy and yes MJ never went to 7 games but alot csn be said Abt a player and how he performs n those game 7 or close out game n Bron has put up 33 n those games that's clutch
What it make Kobe he got swept by them
This was a fantastic debate. Here is what in my opinion makes a GOAT in basketball. You have to be able to play on and off the ball with equal success, and be impactful. MJ, Kobe, Bird and Magic. The other thing about these four, they made practically EVERYONE around them better. So much so, that it is actually used against them. LBJ is 2-4 with Wade/Bosh, and 1/4 with Irving/Love. I know there were injuries, but MJ did it with the flu and Pippen spasms.
You’re comparing the flu(which he didn’t have) and back spasms to lebron LITERALLY not even having his 2 other best players not even on the court in the nba finals.But hey the flu and back spasms 🤦🏾
@@von1626 How about this. Jordan is better. His teams win more games. He wins more championships. He has a positive impact on this teammates. He never throws his teammates under the bus. He unlike LeBron has played on some of the historically greatest teams in NBA history. None of LeBron super teams will EVER go down in history as a great team such as Warriors, Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Bulls....is that a better comparison?!!!
@@von1626 dude the Dallas series… come on now. No showed and ghosted the series. No GoAT candidate has that on their resume. Kobe hasn’t done that. Magic. Bird. Kareem. It’s about who rises to the occasion when it matters. Not who “makes the right basketball play and dishes the ball when the pressure is on.”
My top 10....MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, Shaq, Russell.
It's rare and awesome when someone recognize Hakeem
@@adpbobcat ikr....Hakeem was that dude & a beast on both sides of the ball.
Someone showing is tribalism and hate, Lebron is better than all these guys stop your nonsense.. Shaq over Lebron, ask Shaq and he will tell u Lebron is better. Lebron is so much better than magic and bird. Stop your nonsense. Don't ever compare the all round game of Lebron to Kobe. The only comparable to Lebron is MJ... Stop your nonsense hate please. Be objective. Stop bringing politics into sports. Assh*le.
Kobe is over Tim because he’s a better player and Tim has two to three other HOF players his WHOLE career…Kobe didn’t! That’s why!
That's true but all of these guys you mentioned were drafted by the Spurs. I got Kobe over Duncan but not for that reason. Kobe was more impactful when it counted and Duncan always made the right decisions. Kobe could also take over a game better than Duncan. But I got Tim as the greatest power forward ever.
Kareem won a championship in his rookie year also and he had less talent on the Bucks than Magic did.
Better player with less final FMVP? Y’all lying to yourselves.Kobe is barely a top ten player.He has no argument besides his personality and PR
@@reynoldriper9814yeah, the same way Duncan won chips without Parker and Manu , right? When you can present proof that Duncan won anything without them…stop talking basketball! Kobe won twice without Shaq and went to 3 straight! Duncan really aint top 10 and NOBODY has him in their “greatest of all time” list! Go do some research before you say dumb shit about basketball again…Kobe is DEFINITELY top 3…period!
@@mikelowrey__ Tim Duncan won a ring in 1999 and was FMVP without Parker and Manu Ginobli. He won FMVP 3 times while Kobe won it twice.I did my research, ESPN ,Bleachers report has Kobe at 14 while Tim Duncan at 7,Espn has Tim Duncan at 6 while Kobe is at 10.Sports illustrated has Tim Duncan at 10 while Kobe is at 12. Kobe only wins on personality and mamba mentality bullshit. He has no other argument over Duncan,and his game will continue to age poorly as other players pass him in the rankings
MJ, and isn't even close.
They using Jedi mind tricks on the nba fans. They make the argument Jordan vs lebron not because it’s actually a debate but because that’s the way of subtlety putting lebron over Kobe, magic, bird, Russell, wilt. How did lebron just skip past them?
Correct. Klutch Sports influences the media to push the LBJ vs MJ narrative to keep LBJ relevant. It’s about $ not basketball.
Do u actually watch basketball games. Can u compare Lebron 's play to any of these other old men.. stop this nonsense..
@@george2198 What’s the flaw in the argument that started this thread. Do you think it’s ok to skip over the other greats? Sounds like you are basketball fan. Guessing you respect the game and its history.
U right cuz LBJ has had a way better career and has played great for longer not just played for a long time but played great we saw how guys look at 38 and how they teams faired n ik the wizards went no wherr n jordan lookrd washrd
LeBronze wears 23, does the powder toss, and did a Space Jam sequel because he wanna be like Mike.
Facts
😂😂😂😂👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Yeah, he was trying to copy him...
What did Kobe do copy Jordan
@@keithmitchell8372yeah Kobe copied Jordan in closing games- unlike LeBalco.
A superstar CAN win a championship without another, it's definitely possible. But those are outlier championships. To be a consistent winner, you need atleast a decent team around you.
If Dirk Nowitzki was the only Superstar on this team and won a championship....... that makes the case against LeBron James even worse..... because Jordan would have never have been beaten by just a superstar..... not to mention dark beat LeBron and Dwyane Wade
Tim Duncan squares up to Kobe's achievements just fine the issue is Kobe passes the eye test.
And bron is NOT top 3…never has been, never will be! Maybe top 7!
Dirk really didn't have a superstar with him 2011 finals run nor did kwahi with the raptors in 2019
MJ era
Kobe Era
Lebron/Curry Era
In reality we shouldn’t be comparing the past to the future cuz it’s always advancing.
I can never compare Mj and Bron because Bron is just a shadow of Kobe and Mj. Just like Kobe is a shadow to Jordan. At the end of the day whoever you choose it’s YOUR preference, there’s no right answer for the ppl that don’t bring up stats
All Great point, I just want to add that MJ, Pippen developed their game. They lost multiple times before the become the Champions. Unlike Lebron, he inheritted or picked All star Players to win championship.
Great point about Dirk winning without a great 2nd option…. Who’d he best again? And which star melt down that finals?
🐐 🐍 👑… simple
Load management and EPO/PED's anyone can play 20yrs in this era. Mix that with no defense. Stop it!
Scottie didn't win without mike but has a better postseason record
I take Kobe over Duncan because Tim Duncan’s teams never repeated, the only Dynasty that didn’t go back to back in the last thirty years.
The fact that lebron lost to has beens with the mavs said it all
Ryan Davis had certain arguments that these guys couldn't dispute though. Jordan never won without the Triangle offense, and he only won when he had a 50 win team roster for him, you put Jordan on the Cavs back in those days they would have beaten the Pistons, but the Bulls would have still been contenders without Jordan because we know that... When Jordan retired the first time, that team was solid, the bench was solid also.
So why is that? Lebron can drag a 25 win roster to the finals, but Jordan couldn't get out of the first round with Oakley, Paxon, Woolridge? I get they would play the Celtics, but they couldn't even win a game at home. And with that roster why couldn't Jordan avoid the 8th seed? And he's mentioning Craig Ehlo, Dumars, Mark Price, Doc Rivers, Reggie Theus, these were the guys Jordan played in his conference. In Lebron's era Jordan would have had to face Lebron, Wade, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Tracy MacGrady, they would have all been in his conference...I think he would have been a little better, but those guys would scored on him as well..
I’m not a LeBron hater at all, I respect him and he is in my top 10 but I can never put him above Michael or Kobe. 10 years ago I couldn’t say never because we were waiting to see what was going to happen, but now that we’re towards the end of his career, there’s nothing he can do in the eyes of true, who aren’t just blind to put him at the best ever. Yes he’s got great stats LeBron worshipers never want to talk about the circumstances surrounding the stats. he had three times more help than either Kobe or Michael did and he didn’t even have half the competition they did. Yes he beat the Warriors, but let’s keep it a buck. They had some key players on that warriors team that were banged up and not playing at their best, but even at that I do admit that’s probably the most impressive thing LeBron has done in his career, was bringing that championship home to Cleveland. But there’s no way if I were starting a team and I was told I can have either Kobe Bryant in his prime or LeBron James and his prime but I can’t have both, there is not one scenario where I would pick LeBron. Yeah I know he might get a couple triple doubles in the finals but if he’s not going to win, then the triple doubles don’t mean anything other than just stats.
Let’s go back to the 2000s win for two years in a row we were being fed these Nike commercials with two puppets that were supposed to be Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. Back then his supporters were saying not only was he going to make it to the finals that he was going to bring home the championship Both in 2009 and 2010. Nobuddy was saying “oh well the Cleveland Cavaliers sucks so LeBron‘s not going to win.” that’s not what they were saying then that was only said after he left, but in the moment when it was happening, people were saying Cleveland was the best team in the east, and his supporters were saying he was best in the world. So the best team in the east with the “best player in the world.” (he wasn’t. It was still Kobe at that time. LeBron didn’t really become the best player in the world that was currently active until I would say 2011) Can’t get past Dwight Howard in Orlando Magic? And the next year couldn’t get past Boston. Kobe beat both of those teams for a championship.
But let’s just say Kevin Garnett broke his leg in the playoffs in 2010 and Ray Allen had a broken finger. Somehow, LeBron and Cleveland beat Boston and the 2010 NBA finals, are the Cavaliers versus Lakers. . There’s two minutes left on the clock, the game tied and it’s game seven. LeBron stats for this game are 33 points 10 rebound and eight assist. That’s some great stats but he’s losing that game. Kobe was built for those moments he doesn’t flinch. Kobe loves those moments like Michael did. LeBrons not winning.
And to me, that’s the big difference. Not the only one, but it’s one of the big differences between the type of players. Kobe and Michael were and who LeBron is. I don’t think LeBron ever learn to be the guy that love those moments. he wasn’t the guy to take the game over. That’s why even in the 2011 finals having two Hall of Fame players who are both two top 75 players and we’re both All-Stars in Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosch was not enough to get the ringless king a ring. They had to go get another Hall of Famer and another former champion who was multiple time all star in Ray Allen. Not only does that add another cast to this super team, but you also broke up their biggest competition in Boston. So now they broke up their biggest competition in the east so getting to the playoffs is a walk in the park for Miami at this time but it’s pretty much the Eastern conference All-Star team. And if you remember, yes, LeBron had good stats in that game but when it came time for someone to finish the game who had to do it for him, Ray Allen. And look I’m not saying Michael and Kobe didn’t pass the ball in big moments because they did but they had already proven that they could finish the job. We’ve never seen him really be the guy to finish the job.
I'm a cavs fan and I'm glad you bought up those 09-10 runs. Everyone thought that was roster was good enough to win a chip that year.
When the cavs lost, that's when all the excuses started. They were a 60 win team. Not an 8th seed.
Imagine Giannis, Jokic and Dirk bailing on their teams and never winning those rings.
With that said LeBron's biggest issue is that he never went to college and learned how to play in a system.
Kobe didn't go to college either, but he also had time sit and grow in his early years with the Lakers
MJ by far. And it's not anything about hate on Kobe or LeBron, but I don't put Kobe or LeBron in top 5 either.
Finding the next Jordan ever since the end of MJ's Bulls career has been pretty much annoying for both player and marketing standpoint. Just because he plays like MJ (Kobe) or be marketable and face of the league and wear number 23 like MJ (LeBron) doesn't make Kobe and LeBron a top 3 player of all time. I wouldn't say media itself, but the fascination of a debate topic among sports writers and even on social media for viewership is at fault.
Not necessarily the order, but MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, possibly Wilt too....and then the rest. They are the legends that shaped the league, and not giving the proper respect to the players before the 90s is legitimately disrespectful.
Greatest sneaker of all time debate: jordan 1 vs crocs.
In case you’re wondering lebron is crocs.
TD is ahead of Kobe, and Kobe is ahead of Lebron. of the 3, only TD is legit top 5 all time. #facts
In addition to Dirk, Hakeem also won a chip in 1994 without another superstar on his team. Aries got that wrong too
Thank you Aries Spears. That is the same argument I’ve been telling people I don’t hate LeBron I hate the idea they think LeBron is better than Mike and he’s not look at the eye test Jordan had way more moves. He kept defense of balance. And then is the way he did it you think LeBron could’ve walked away from the NBA for a year and a half and came back and won the championship. No, they didn’t think Michael could do it until he did it.
The problem that I notice is that people who make these comments and statements don’t know or understand the history so having a debate with someone who doesn’t know the history of basketball is like talking to a wall
Someone will google stats and watch 2 highlights and say yes greatest ever…
That’s not how it works because you can’t rush learning history… you have to watch the NBA year by year, the pre season, regular season, post season, finals, all 82 games year after year after year
You can’t rush knowledge
These guys need better mics
Kobe won two without a superstar, Pau was a good player but he was not a Superstar💯
The part about Tim Duncan having four rings and MVPs but what people seem to forget is that you have to have an asterisk by his first championship in the '99 season due to the strike. So did he really get four does it really count? Would the Spurs have won the championship in a full 82 game season
If you put a Asterix next to Russell the same has to be done for the water down. Michael Jordan played in, Where they spread the talent out. Players that were drafted to expansion teams were not the starts or star players🎉🎉🎉
Lerbon is the best player to ever play the game. LeGoat
I Can-Not believe that this is a debate.
Makes me love the Gen-Z EVEN LESS.
Michael Jordan for me
Smart and logical are two totally different things!
Nice distinction.
FYI, Scottie wasn't drafted by the Bulls, it was Seattle
Sure. What’s your point?
@@occam5375 he was wrong. Correcting a mistake
It was 6 teams in the 60’s
Well Magic benefitted from where he forced himself to be drafted. They had Kareem
Michael Jordan is the KING of basketball.
Lebron vs JJ Barea
Lebron vs Jason Terry
Lebron vs Jason Kid
Aries Spear is so intelligent
Also, I dunno how ‘Ryan’ got away with lumping Dan Majerle into that group and still get his point across. Thunder Dan was 6’6” and built like a Greek god. He was the god damn Dolf Lundgren of the NBA
Because there is a bias against white basketball players
And he was one of the best shooters in the league.
@@TayGee-mh8eo god that is so true.
lbj isnt even better than larry legend.
1. Jordan 2. Kobe....but kobe and Jordan are ALMOST the same
exactly!
LMAO KOBE
Like i said they pick and choose certain arguments
ARIES, you kind of lost me with the Dirk response. Dirk went dolo, and you know it. Everything else was spot on.
is this another mashup with Aries???????
They say the players of the day are better then why do they have to team up to win a championship?
You can’t compare Tim Duncan vs shooting guards.. you have to compare Tim Duncan with power forwards and the argument can be made about Tim Duncan being the greatest power forward of all time
Listen I’m not Albert Einstein but the guy that brought up Tim Duncan doesn’t know the history because if he did then he’d never say what he said
Let’s say that Dirk did win a championship without another hall of fame player all star, which are facts because Dirk did
However that’s 1 time in 50 years of NBA Basketball
yeah fyi. the
cavs team that
everyone is making
fun of had mark price
on it. rumor was he was
on the short list for the dream team.
Did Jordan figure it out of the Phil Jackson figure it out for him !! Facts the problem is win Jordan won it was all Jordan but win he lost it was not his fault But we don’t do that for lebron even though he was asked to do more
AD was the “better” player but lebron led the team in points, rebounds and assist.. doesnt make sense 🤔
Im soo sick of this debate-who ever does better then MJ in 15 yrs then we can talk PERIOD...
@5:55 in the video the guy in the black shits down the conversation when he answered “personality” when ask why Duncan is not considered over Kobe. Proving again most people goat has nothing to do with skills or talent
There is no debate. The real debate is LeBron vs Kobe
You dumb if you think it is a debate
Lebron solos
Ppl thinks todays player now are more athletic than 80’s and 90’s coz the defence let them do whatever the offense want. Back in the day u cant do that. Not to mention its was harder to your body to play both ends of the court offensively and defensively compared to todays you only see offense and let them loose.
Imagine if players could build or jump on super teams back in Jordan’s era… how many championships would Micheal Jordan have if he went to the Pistons with Isaiah Thomas and his squad Or joining the Celtics with Larry Bird or LA with Magic Johnson in his crew
Micheal Jordan would have 20 championships in this case
Do I need to go any further with this conversation?
This conversation is all subjective and preference
lol! champagne skeet!!!
They got stats for personality?
You can't claim its a team game, when its bums on the other team, then claim 6-0 as if it was a personal achievement. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 They calling MJ the Greatest before he had a ring. So you can not turn around and use the rings as a measuring stick for greatness for the other players. 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Michael Jordan is the best SYSTEM player of all time - Ryan Davis
Here’s what I just heard in this interview.. Aries Spears said you have to have that one 2 punch to win championships
They brought up Dirk not having that all star one 2 punch…. Correct however Aries didn’t say you had to have that other all star to win 100% of the time… there’s some teams that slips through the cracks and won with that other also
To know what’s going on and how Micheal Jordan is the GOAT.. you have to open up your mind and let the understanding come naturally instead of watch from social media
No disrespect to anybody but when they brought up Dirk not having that other player tells me they dont really know the game as they should… if they did then Dirk would’ve never have been brought up
Hakeem Olajuwon did it alone!! But Mj izda GOAT
Jordan all day killer instinct was just crazy And take over ability was crazy. It's not even it's debate
I've been watching the NBA since Shaq entered the league. MJ is by far the most feared player by opponents while Shaq is the most dominant ever in his prime. Kobe is the most exciting and Lebron is the most dramatic player.
Here is why Lebron will never be greater than MJ and Kobe.
He won his first rings with at least 2 top75 players in their prime. Kyrie and Kevin Love both top5 at their position back than. AD was the best player in the bubble and Bron had an allstar roster full of Hall of Famers against one Allstar in Jimmy Buttler.
Second, all I hear from LeShannon, Perk and Nick is that it's so much harder in todays league without at least two superstars. So how come Giannis, Jokic, Kawhi and even the 2022 Warriors won rings without another super duper superstar when Lebron in his prime always had at least 2 Superstars while playing in the weakest eastern conference era ever
Duncan had the 2nd best coach ever...olll papi! Timmy will be a top 10 player ever
Mavs had matrix ,dirk ,Tyson chandler ,jj, Jason terry, j-kidd…maybe finley? … they had a SQUAD… dirk wasnt dolo… also mite be … the single hardest path to win a chip too so 🤷🏾♂️
Man i remember how they completely destroyed the previous yrs champs the lakers in such a fashion it left me thinking, “idgaf who mavs play cuz if they continue to shoot like this ain’t nobody they can’t beat” they truly played great team basketball, mixed with momentum and belief, and add dirk seriously going “HE’S ON FIRE!” mode in almost every 4th quarter in those finals, there was no question, they were the best team that year
LeBron is top 30 at best
facts!
The eastern conference was weaker then too
Mike faced double and triple teams
Jordan and Kobe are by far the 2 greatest ever. The only 2 basketball gods ever. The only 2 players ever with 0 weaknesses in their games.
For those who say Michael Jordan went against Ehlo and Dan Majerle and the NBA was watered down back then
Nonsense….. Let me explain how the NBA in 2024 is watered down…..
It’s easier to win championships in this era…. Players are making their own super teams and jump ship to join teams with all the best players
Example = Lebron James had to go to Miami to win 2 tiles with Ray Allen, Bosh and DWade
Then went back to Cleveland to join Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love
Then went to LA to recruit and play with Anthony Davis
The NBA going back 10 years up until this day today… it’s easier to win championships in this era because players get to ditch one team and join another
Wanna say Micheal Jordan’s era was watered down? I just gave you the facts on how the NBA today is watered down
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅This was hilarious
MJ is King. you can’t think of basketball without thinking of Jordan.
Then he said Reggie Miller who was just a of ball player who needed screens n shit had a so so handle n played no defense yes glaze lbj loses it's he loses MJ loses it's a team sport they making Ryan point without even knowing
JASON KID WAS SUPER STAR
🏀🏀🏀🏀
Rest management Lebron? Talk to Jordan 3 retirement, is not the same play 20 year with the same tire
MJ and LeBron top 2. I like LBJ but either way 🤷🏿♂️
Hakeem Olajuwon is the Superstar to win a title without another all star! He did it twice
Drexler?
@tobigoz Drexler wasn't an all star that year
There is no debate. Watch games not highlights LBJ fans. And I mean Lebrons games. Not ESPN highlights
You said matches is Jordan vs heló. Jordan vs horfnef
Tell these fools what's up
Of course MJ won 6 times, because he always had the better team. There is no Duo in the 90s that was better than Jordan and pip. These 2 were literally first team all NBA and first team All Defense together. Then you throw worm in there, it’s a wrap. Lebrons teams were so “stacked” that he lead his teams in points, assists and rebounds in his finals wins. Mj never did this and never had too. Jordan’s team in the 90s is equivalent to lebron playing with a great two way player in kawhi, and a great defensive player in draymond green.
MJ and its no debate!!
Kobe won 2 without another superstar. Pau was great but he was not a superstar.
Beating them plumbers in the 90’s
You don't like superteam. Tell me about 96-98 bulls
Rodman kukoc pippen kerr and PHIL JACKSON
Lol I don’t understand the argument
Every Hall Of Famer Aries mentioned were on their own teams...Lebron had to go against teams that had 2-4 Hall of Famers on them
Oh you mean like Dirk Nowitski or Devin Booker?!?! # Stop it!!!
@@HamboneyGamezYT Dirk had Jason Kidd 🤔 Jason Terry/Shawn Marion was also on the squad. Booker had Chris Paul, Ayton was also on the squad...this year Lebron gotta go against Booker, Durant, and Beal on 1 team 😂 Jordan wouldve struggled the same way bruh.
@ChicagoBusiiness bunch of weak teams
@ChicagoBusiiness what about Zone defence? Kobe, Duncan, and many others complained it got harder to iso since they changed the rules for Shaq...Jordan stans fail to mention this
Lebron is the greatest player of this generation but the goat is Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Kobe is 1B. to MJ and Lebron is #2. in the conversation.!
4:40. Robert Horry can’t be the GOAT lol. He got 7 rings, but not in the HOF because he has no league MVPs, all star game appearances, scoring titles, defensive team selections, defensive POY, Finals MVPs, or Olympic team selections.
MJ 🐐🐐🐐💯💯💯
You said jordan dominate the nba,talk about 80? Only win 1 game after pippen come
Kobe won twice without Shaq. He’s definitely better than Lebron.