@@Taireedillard All of Jordan's rings did come in the triangle under Phil. 91/92/93/96/97/98. Collins made that statement in 1988. Phil became coach in 1990 and brought the triangle with him.
Salley was partially right. Phil Jackson said the triangle was designed to get role players shots, not the stars. He said MJ could get any shot at any time, but the triangle allowed the role players to stay involved in the offense.
@@BHoodInk fucking thank you. like wtf the dude was literally there. fuck what one clip says. this dude is giving an indepth description, knowing the info can't be used against him in a game.
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
Why should a grown man like another man. It's not personal its facts. Bron has female energy. Men don't like to hang out with woman. Those who do men don't respect. Men like bron needs to be worship.
@@ryanmatt5541 everyone is biased, just like you’re biased, I’m biased, no one is objective when it comes to sports. Anyone that says otherwise is lying
40,50,50,70,40,60..make it make sense is all I ask..& they give us right to criticize them when they criticize players whose career double lap theirs..nasty work..talking bout ”Devin Booker can go” what you just say?
He was a first round pick how would he be coming off the bennnnnch💡🤨😐.......🤔💭........waiiiitt a minute your just a casual aren't you?..... and aren't you a🧌 too???wait your one of those casual🧌's???🤯first time meeting one nowww I get it 😐.........if you don't get the fook outta here with that 🐂-💩🙄😮💨
The main issue is LeBron had the option to have a system NUMEROUS times because Bron had heavy influence on coaching choices. And the one time he was in a system (Miami) he decided to leave. You can make the argument he chose this career.
Running in back with a injured miami heat squad that has a system or be the first player in your city’s history to bring a championship home which doesnt have a system but alot more potential than it did in the first stint? Im picking the second one too
I really don’t understand why nobody talks about that.. he literally picks the rookie coaches that coach his teams.. it’s always been his decision. He just doesn’t want a system.. he wants the top players, not the system
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
This was a Great Interview bring John Salley back so much basketball knowledge was dropped. One of my favorite episodes. I come back to this episode a lot.
Not impressive if all I have to do is truck my way to the rim for easy points or foul shots. And if they send extra defenders I’ll just throw it to my shooters standing in the corner so they can bail me out. Compared to , having a killer mentality and having multiple offensive options like ball handling, shooting 3s, post up, step back, finish at rim etc. I have a deeper bag AND I HAVE MORE CHIPS. I think that’s impressive
I dont if Rashad lacks understanding..What was pointed out is Kobe and Jordan worked in the ssytem, while Bron didnt and still excels. He enhanced his shooting, fadeaways, and took advantage of his athleticism. Even though Bron isnt in the system he won 4 championships..If he was with Phil, that 4 might be 8 then, inside a system.
Phil Jackson was coaching in Mexico when the Bulls hired him to come and coach an already MVP/DPOY Michael Jordan. It was the fact that MJ listened and made everyone else fall in line that made it work. If he treated Phil the way LBJ treats ALL his coaches going back to HS, none of us would know who Phil was.
He's not completely wrong, just wrong about when Phil started with the bulls, but that's semantics to what he was saying. The rest of his point is valid, LeBron has never trusted or supported management & at times has actually actively worked against them or took responsibilities off them for himself. Le GM.
@@Haynes5721 Don’t muddy up the convo with semantics, Phil was a behind the bench asst that was hired because he was willing to run Tex Winters the triangle offense that Krause wanted to run and Doug Collins didn’t. Phil was no coaching prodigy. Krause just really liked him. Jordan and Kobe had to sacrifice numbers in order to win championships. Mike didnt like the system because he didn’t want to lose games with role players handling the ball too much and taking shots. He was hard on his teammates to step their game up instead of running to replace them. They eventually did and he won 6 chips because of it. Kobe bucked the system a lot the first 3 chips, but he stuck with it enough to win 5 chips.
I don’t think people realize what they say when they talk.. LeBron has multiple championships how many is he supposed to have 21 ?? That expectation alone should make people take a step back and reflect on their desires for other players careers
To me that's what's wrong with fans and the whole NBA. So now nobodies career was special because they didn't win shit. Agent 0 wasn't shit, Charles Barkley wasn't shit😂 makes me laugh really
@@billyenglish7231they didn’t have to, they had a front office who had brains and actually made good moves. Every team bron played on the front office was brain dead
@@billyenglish7231 if bron had shaq, that bulls squad, hof coaches, and didn't have to go up against better competition he wouldn't have left. situations are different.
@JohnnytNatural They got the players he wanted. How do y'all forget. None of the players play their game. They wait til he runs the clock down & hr wants someone to make a shot with no rhythm & he plays no defense.. yikes!
Phil was a new coach when began coaching Jordan. Riley was a new coach when he coached Magic, and Kerr was a new coach when he coached Curry. Bron isn’t the only player to win with new coaches. Also, Miami had a system when Bron played there.
@@Bestthingsince93 so we rewarding coaches for going to the finals and losing but insult lebron for going to 10 finals and losing 6. Please make it make sense
This was probably one of the best MJ, Kobe, Lebron debate I’ve ever seen. ESPN and other media/podcast will definitely be using the analogies yall used. Shoutout to Gil’s Arena 🙌🏽🙌🏽
@@Heemkeem_9 they didn’t need to cuz of the team an organization/coach they had. Unless you’re saying MJ could’ve had better players than Rodman, Pippen, Kerr, etc…and Kobe could’ve had better than Shaq, Pau?
@@moah2086 lmaoo dude just named …. STEVE KERR 😂😂🤣🤣😳😳 and YES Jordan could’ve had better players than Scottie and Rodman … do u know what Dwayne was the first two years of the 3 peat ? Easily a top 4-6 player in the league and then u pair that with bosh who was a top 8-12 player in the league , and pau !?! 🤣🤣🤣😂 really really good player but he’s no top 5 player in the world lol go look at tht two peat lakers roster again … went to the finals 3 years in the west when it was as tuff as it’s ever been … imagine what they would’ve did if Kobe got to play with an Amare and a Chris Paul for 4 years . Shaq is shaq and I give u tht but to me Kobe’s career defining years are from 04-2011
Yes you are right, Jordan was still Jordan, although he got smarter over time the triangle was designed to take the weight off Jordan but with a triangle you gotta have the pieces, Scottie had to evolve, Kobe and Shaq, Kobe was always Kobe he was always gonna work hard so you right it didn’t enhance them cause they were going to work on their game anyway.
If the players around you play better it makes it easier for you to hoop with enhances you … example KD in golden state he was just as good before that but when you put him around lethal shooters now you either gotta leave Steph or klay or let kd go 1v1 and teams tried everything and you couldn’t stop it
@@aaotrey106 yeah that’s cause it was a system, in anything that you in life you have to have a system so you can stay on track it’s the same with the team, if you have a system it makes winning easy but that’s if you have player capable. A lot teams Bron right now isn’t in a system, their system is, shoot the 3 and give it to AD and Bron just fill in I’d say they need a coach that will come and just turn it around
This the most factual comment of the topic. The triangle prevented teams from loading up on mike, shaq and kobe. Period. It gave them space to go one v one
@@brandonwatson5290 Lebron doesn’t like being coached, he wants to be the coach, even if he had the same coaching staffs as MJ and Kobe . Lebron wants to run everything and call the shots
@@GirlDad_93 Ok well don’t get upset if he doesn’t have a “good coaching “ system if he doesn’t try too. Even if he had Phil Jackson, bron still wouldn’t be coached
@@newelldavis1858 you casuals are funny. Duncan never had a top 10 player ever on his team. Tony was never a top 10 player / Manu was never a top 10 player / kawhi was never a top 10 player in SA. Kobe had Shaq not only was Shaq a top 3 player in the league at the time but he’s also A TOP 10 player OF ALL TIME LOL. Give Duncan a top 10 player and see how many championships he wins lol
Yeah Duncan gets overlooked and it’s crazy I’m 29 and I remember how dominant the Spurs were like every year form early 2000’s to early 2010’s that’s insane.
Gils arguement about bron still doing well without a system is weak. It’s not like he was winning with traditional teams he was the catalyst for teams stacking the deck in the modern nba.
Wait, Lebron was like Magic. Who was Magic’s coach when he won his championships? Pat Riley. When Lebron was in Miami whose system was he in? Pat Riley. If Lebron wanted to be a part of a winning system, he had one. He left it.
When LeBron joined the Lakers, Magic Johnson was the president of the team. They missed the playoffs, and Magic left his position. If LeBron for once would've taken responsibility of his team, he'd kept playing with Magic, then LeBron would have 10 rings.
Pat riley didn't coach the heat when bron was there fuck are you talking about. This is just like phil jackson with the knicks as the president... he didn't coach the players bruh... Jst because phil was a generational coach doesn't mean that system would translate to a newbie coach when he was a president.
Jordan only played about 15 seasons to win his six championships, and he was not chasing records. Now, when ya talk about Lebanon's records, ask yourself how many years it took him to get them. 21 seasons with four rings. How many years did it takes him to pass MJ in points ?
Defensive one yes. Offensive, not really. Look how golden state moved around, Denver, spurs. Those are offense systems because they dont wear out your best player.
@@2cents250you are wrong, but for the right reasons, he had space with bosh and ray the year after, 2012 where bosh was moved as 5, before in 2011 the was no space
@@johnp550not sure why you are laughing he is actually right. He never even went first in the draft. That was The Dream. Jordan went 3rd. He got to develop without any pressure.
Haha yeap. Never fails. He fucked up when he said Bron would have been as good as Gil thinks he is if he had a system. He thought that proved his point as to why Bron ain't the GOAT. But Gil exposed it with the record label analogy. Lmao. Anytime he makes a point & then realizes it actually works against him, he'll just change his point 😂
So why wouldn’t he go play for Popivich then since he was a free agent?hell hes a free agent now and probably not going to have a good coach to come in so go play4Pop now
@pickledbeatz315 thing is jordan had an owner that wanted to win and at the time of the decision the douche who owns the cavs refused to invest he was happy with what he was making and once lebron went to Miami he promised to open up his wallet to get him back in Cleveland once Bron tool the crappy cavs to the finals before his heat run management expected him to keep doing that with G league talent around him
LMAO Jordan joined a provety franchise. Bulls were in the ECF Phil before Phil took over. Jordan took the Champs to six games with no All-Star caliber teammates. Imagine if he had Wade and bosh in 89 instead of a 2nd yr Pippen and Grant. The triangle isn't making the 24-Spurs a championship caliber team.
I thought players are compared based on individual skill and not team accomplishments or team effort. Lebrons does all...MJ doesn't. So who is better as an individual skill set. Look at individual stats and longevity..he still plays to date
@@edobwoy I'm no expert but I've watched them both at the prime of their careers and MJ never feared a soul...ever. Amongst other attributes I do not see in LeBron that I see in MJ I put MJ light years above LeBron though he is still exceptional in his own right.
@@tonynature fearing a foul is not a skill. Making assists, rebounds, scoring, playing all positions, chasing down blocks, physicality at 40 years old are all skills. He leads MJ in all those. He leads MJ in NBA playoff records. He is the ONLY player to average 25+points in 19 seasons without taking a break to rest apart from injuries. It's data that can be verified so you are totally wrong.
@@edobwoy I've seen games where LeBron was clearly shook for all the world to see when faced with certain opponents, Nowitzki and Kahwi being the most notable. With regards to stats the modern game is so open offensively that records will favor modern era greats, I mean these players commit carrys nearly every possesion and you've only got to watch TH-cam to see the ridiculous travels and delicate foul calls, the defensive 3 second rule done away with rim prtoectors and we live in an age where out of shape Europeans consistently rank as the leauges top players and MJ still has the best PER. I've watched both careers and the eye test trumps the stats for me.
No he's just wrong. The phones from 20 years ago aren't as good as the phones now. It's the evolution of humans. Jordan was huge and that's cuz we didn't have social media and all that shit. Lebron has been so great during all this social media era and everything. It's so obvious lebron would have been better if you take him at age 26 and put him against Jordan.
BS .... You take LECHOKE at 26 and put him up against MJ he'll QUIT just like Musgy Bouges did. Wht y'all dnt wnt to Accept ADMIT or Deal With is the Simple fact tht the game is easier today, bcse if you take the LECHOKE who got SWEPT by DALLAS with the same Team and put them against the 91 PISTONS who MJ beat they wud be SWEPT AGAIN but if you take tht same 91 MJ and put them against the MAVS, yow the tbl will be Turned EASILY and hey amma play with my same Bulls Squad.
Rashad tries to make points to discredit Bron, starts moving his hands and adding more points… eventually he just makes the case for the Bron being the GOAT. He should just start arguing that Bron is his GOAT… it’ll eventually lead to points strengthening Mike and Kobe’s cases.
@@jeffjohnsonization The initial point was made by John Salley, which means it's not true. LeBron played in a triangle offense at least during his second stint with the Cavs.
LMAO LeBron can't play in the triangle he dosent have the skill set. LeBron is ball dominant and isn't elite off-ball. Had nothing to do with the system. What did the triangle do in 06 & 07 with Kobe?
He would have more rings if he didn't lose to the greatest starting lineup in NBA history. Kevin Durant going to the Warriors changed every single thing.
Oh don't forget he was in the finals at 22 and lost his two best teammates in 2015. That's why he don't got more rings but these ppl keep pushing narratives.
If the Warriors were so good how did James Harden with a injured Cp3 took them 7 games Patrick Beverly and Lou Williams role players took them 6 games but LeBron with a superteam couldn't even get you 2 games the warriors wasn't the best team ever the 96 Bulls are
Gilbert out here purposely flipping narratives..... Saying Jordan fans said LeBron was a pass 1st guy no Gil LEBRON FANS ALWAYS said that LeBron was a pass 1st guy and Jordan fans would call out his FGA per game and say pass 1st WHERE 🤷🏾♂️
You can’t tell me none of these coaches wanted to implement some form of an offense that they can fall back on. It all changes when Bron comes to the team
Lebron played with way more top 75 nba players than everyone mentioned & if that analogy was correct that would make Magic Johnson better than Lebron n maybe the goat b/c he played w less superstars/allstars
True was MJ was just a stats guy until he paired with Phil. The gm revamped the locker room and Phil put in the triangle offense with his zen approach. All of that matters when it comes to winning
I'm a pretty firm believer that a set system wouldn't enhance what LeBron does it would lessen it. Bron is the system wherever he goes for better or worse.
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
LeBron doesn't have amazing fundamentals off ball lol. He loves the way he grew up playing in HS/AAU and is afraid of CHANGE as it makes him uncomfortable. That's why Spoelstra went to Chip Kelly to learn his Spread Offense & fundamentally change how bigs play for him to succeed. Not only that, the league literally dumbed down the rules to make it easier for perimeter players to succeed!
The Warriors, Bulls and Lakers were a solid system because of the chemistry they had with players that played together for a long period of time along with great coaching.
There was no pressure to win like LeBron faced. LeBron was never given the luxury of time to build consistency because he was expected to win every year.
McCants takes about LeBron never make sense because he allows his personal dislike for LeBron to over shadow the point his trying to make. I don’t know if it’s just that he can’t articulate what he really means because he doesn’t have the words in his vocabulary but he continues to contradict himself whenever the discussion about “the greatest” is bought up…
The points I wish people would articulate is how he is the all time turnover leader, but is considered a "good" passer. How he can't shoot further than 3 feet from the basket and he has both taken and missed more shots that Kobe. How often n he complains to the refs and just doesn't play defense even going so far as to not run back on defense. How he doesn't play 82 games. I'm sure I can dig out more, but these are the main points.
@@darksaint0124 I can show you actual stats and data that will debunk all of your talking points. You literally are repeating the talking points from tv shows and media heads instead of actually taking the time to do your own research. I’m not going to go back and forth with someone who chooses not to educate themselves..
@@darksaint0124 every body top 10 in assists have a lot turnovers and even after 21 seasons Kobe still has the most misses alltime and if lebron can’t shot past 3 feet Jordan and Kobe can’t shoot past 1 because the both have lower fg and three point percentage than bron and look at the stats lebron one of the better defenders in league actually watch basketball
Salley dismissing Olajuwon's championship takes away his credibility. Also, no mention of Kareem in a GOAT discussion, further undercuts the discussion.
Salley isn't trying to diminish Hakeem championships because he believes the Bulls would've won those seasons if the GOAT didn't retire. MANY people believe that. Lol
@@jackers245Bird kind of said it recently “he’s one of the greatest if not the greatest” i don’t remember the interview he said it on but was not too long ago
yo thas real player talk bro... appreciate, appreciate... glad to hear your voices... you'll walk the walk... your opinion bounces anyone else...pure class bro's
Skills meaning shooting ability, handles, can get to any spot he wants n score. Great free throw shooter, 3pt, mid range, post up etc. bron relies on athleticism & ball dominance. No real skillset but IQ. His rebounds n assists aren’t skillsets. He literally tells his teammates to move when getting a board n he holds the ball n pass last minute to get an assist. This why he shys away from big moments cuz he lacks creating his own with no real skillset. Reason why he needed wade, kyrie, ad to fill in the void.
@thegoatmane2715 in order to have both athleticism AND skills it takes the proper IQ to formulate and use as an asset which he’s done his entire career. And last time I checked bball is a team sport which means ALL legendary superstars needed help in order to win. Russell, Bird, Zeke, Steph, MJ, Kobe and MJ did NOT win titles alone it took a total team effort and special players, Pippen was just as much an asset to Mike as Wade was to James
@@thegoatmane2715I respect that…. But, when you have time, watch his highlights from 2007-2018, then, tell me he don’t have a bag…… not true…. He always had handles, just not kyrie, he worked on his jumper, and, post game…… like I said, I respect your opinion, but, I disagree
McCants has a point. Why do people take away Kobe’s three-peat with Shaq but people don’t take away LeBron’s back to back with Wade and Bosh? Wade already had a chip before LeBron even came to Miami.
My new favorite is Gil restates macants argument, and then Brandon realizes how right Gil is, then kinda gets all excited but it’s like a chill excited.
Gil is totally wrong. If we wanna compare MJ and Lebron without a system, we should only compare the first few years of MJ and Lebron to balance out the longevity of Lebron.
Comparing lebron to an independent artist is insane he had the most help and ran offense how he wanted. He didn’t have a system bc he didn’t want to be in one.
He had a system in Miami. Pat Riley's system. He left because he wants to be the system.... And as we can see him being the system doesn't work. Second greatest player my ass only player in the top ten with more finals losses than wins. Played with with more HOF all stars and superstars than both Kobe and Jordan combined..
Although I agree, you guys glossed over the fact of Lebron being in the eastern conference for most of his career. Put Kobe In the east during his prime with Kyrie/Love or D Wade/Bosh and he would've made just as many final appearances. He had much tougher comp in the west. This isn't a fair hypothetical for Lebron MJ, or Kobe. Let all 3 of them just be great
Kobe was never efficient Never lol even when he won finals mvp against the Celtics 2010 they gave it to him because it’s nobody else they could give it too without backlash Kobe won finals MVPs as the worst superstar to ever win with terrible shooting percentage
Kobe also went to a Top 2 franchise too and I think that's glossed over. Easier to recruit and get talent. Is it ironic when he left he went to a destination franchise in Miami? Easier to recruit to Miami LA over Cleveland
@@vontaytheus4082subjective i think he is so what 🤷🏾♂️ mj aint the goat either so this argument gone forever be pointless all i know is bron a better all around player! mj got niave fans just cuz yall made his name a thing so dudes glaze him
Lebron does have a system. Erick Spoelstra gave it to him. It wasn’t till he got to Miami that his iq kicked in to play the game more methodical than out of pure athleticism. Just listen to his podcast with JJ…. Just because he didn’t play the Triangle doesn’t mean that he didn’t have a system.
born always been methodical Gil has even talked about the preparation and how he was dissecting film in the wizards series in bros first Cavs stint he didn't play off pure athleticism you don't average 7 assists a game off pure athleticism with a team that lacked real floor spacers and shot creators
LeFlop has a system Whining and flopping. He left in free agency and could have played for Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr or Popovich but choose to not to so he could get paid and play with other all stars.
What was the system? I watched the same podcast. I didn’t hear him say anything about a particular system. He talked about certain plays they ran. Maybe I missed it. What system did they run?
LBJ has 4 rings to MJ's 6 but leads Jordan in nearly every other statistic. Jordan leads in points, averaging 30.1 to 27.1, but James beats Jordan in rebounds, 7.5 to 6.2; assists, 7.4 to 5.3; field goal percentages, 50.5 to 49.7; and 3-point percentages, 34.7 to 32.7 This doesn't diminish MJ's greatness, or make LBJ greater than MJ any more than 6 to 4 rings make MJ better. They're both the best at their approach to the game!
I’ll never understand why Phil Jackson doesn’t get more recognition in the GOAT debate. Ppl talk about 4-6, but ignore one of the Greatest HC/systems of all time. The triangle can't even work in modern NBA because the competition is better. Edit: Ngl, I don't know ish about the triangle. I care more about the GOAT debate. Y'all taught me a lot in the replies though. 😆
It actually would work now guys dont play defense for real in the modern era they r just more athletic but dont have high iqs its so much spacing r n it would b insane
The Bulls were in the Eastern conference Final before Phil Jackson took over as head coach. It was the Pistons who were in their way. And no one else was giving the Pistons postseason losses except for the Bulls during that span. The Triangle is a great system. But it helps to have three top ten all time (MJ, Kobe, Shaq) players in the Triangle. Phil tried to implement the Triangle in New York with Carmelo. Let's just say it didn't work out very well.
1. Tex Winter created the Triangle. 2. Chicago was making ECFs BEFORE Phil 3. He managed talent. He would often just let the players figure it out. He wasn't so much a strategic Xs and Os. It's just player/ball movement. Nobody can move faster than the ball.
Pat wouldn't coach and Eric was a rookie. Mj wouldn't play when Phil left the bulls,and couldn't win with the wizards,he couldn't even make the playoffs, and that wizards team had some great players. Anthony Jamison Jerry Stackhouse Juan Dixon Christian Latner Jahade White Richard Hamilton Turon Lue Ect.
There is no greatest of all time. There's only a goat of every era. We diminish those who came before when we say greatest of all time. Salley on the show was a blessing
Steve Kerr said the triangle wasn't for MJ and Pippen, because they were gifted enough to be able to score in any offense.. It was more so for everyone else on the team..
Pippen wasn't gifted enough to score in any offence, he often didn't score in the Bulls offence in the 2nd 3-peat and his first 3 years (including the chip year)
@@MitchellelOfGH do it, he's wrong just like many ballers who have been on the court have been wrong. By your logic, whatever Kendrick Perkins says is gospel because he made it to the NBA and you didn't. What a dumb way of going about things.
@@JT-km6th Kendrick Perkins wasn’t on the court w/ Pippen, nor has he gone on to lead another organization to the promised land multiple times as a head coach.. Your analogy is horrible.. Stop while you’re only this far behind..
That was Jon Salley point, with the other players being able to always be in the offense. That opened it up for the stars to have a field day and only worry about there Own scoring. As to Lebron had to get his point and creat for his teammates.
Bro he was in a system in Miami I think he went two for 3-4 in the finals if I’m not mistaken. With a super team. Then the word is he didnt like pat riley checking him, and he tried to get Spo fired. When he couldn’t turn into le-gm and they lost. Then he left to try and win in Cleveland, now that kyre was there and getting attention!
And that’s another reason why his scoring doesn’t matter because his scoring was consequent of him playing since 17 not because he was a prolific scorer. He was trying to play like magic. Magic was a better halfcourt player on offense than lebron. Lebron wants to run in transition every time. When you stop that he’s cooked unless he’s in a system surrounded with talent like Miami!
@@ageg3572bro lebron shoots over 50% in the half court what are you talking about. He averages 5 transition points per game which would mean he still averages 22 points per game outside of that which is still more than magic 😭
They still played the LeBron James system in Miami and that is why they lost in 2011. D Wade had to change his game up and play off the ball so LeBron could have the ball in his hands more. D Wade himself stated this. To add to that, D Wade watched tapes of MJ to learn to do so.
Jordan's biggest numbers he put up was before he played in a system. And all he needed was one other all star and he never not won a championship. He's the GOAT.
While I agree that Jordan is the goat it must be said that Pippen became an all star in 1990. That was the only year Jordan had an all star and didn't win a championship. (Not counting 95 of course). It also must be said that Jordan did win without an all star in 1998. No Pippen.
I’m a high school coach I played at UTEP, I just hate the fact that they overshadow that in the 80s & 90s shooting 29% from was elite, defense was a lot easier to play in my day. I can’t imagine guarding 5 players who all shoot 35% from 3. Players today are a different so skilled. You young bucks are seriously gifted man. Rules are a lot of stiffer but players are a lot faster and gifted it’s crazy. Michael Jordan didn’t really have any crazy offensive matches. He was an excellent on ball defender but the 3 wasn’t respected in our day man. You can’t compare defenses then to now.
Coach I rather guard a 3 ball than to get hand check elbows going to the hole plausibly back and y’all day they actually called traveling and carrying do u see how many steps guys take now it’s atrocious
@@2123lotto No you wouldn't because on your closeout these players would go straight by you or hit a three in your face. I played college ball and coached. If you think hand checking was difficult to play against you are wrong. Players were still getting their game off. It's called making adjustments.
I 1000% always compare LeBron to Magic. The Jordan and Bron argument is so lazy. They are so different on many levels. It's ok for there to be multiple Goats. But I think it falls to position ball. MJ is the best 2 LeBron is the best 3. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. 😇
Nobody said Lebron is a pass first player they said hes a pass first player when the game on the line. And if Jordan wouldnt have rings without the triangle,then Lebron wouldn't have rings without the superstars he played with
@@blackthanos914LeBron has no chips without a HOFer teammates. What don't ya'll get? Do you really think what LeBron did was hard? Imagine Jordan teaming up with Drexler and Danny Manning, then Hardaway and Vin Baker, then Dirk, KG or Webber. But Pippen 😂
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 Neither does MJ, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russell etc. Bron has 4 without a single HOF coach. DUH 🙄 LOLOLOL CHECKMATE DUMB @$$ 🤣🤣🤣
The thing is, it seems like they're using two different styles of arguments to defend lebron, and dont do the same for the other two. They're giving the " but you have to add context" argument for the areas where lebron falls short, and the switching to the absolute, raw numbers argument when it benefits lebron. Like you cant say "his 4 rings must be looked at in the context of his teammates and lack of system" and then just say "well he has the most points so end of discussion". Do the same for the other two then. You could easily say "kobe or jordan dont have the most points but context" and then add "and they have more rings, end of discussion". I think thats where Rashad and Gil missed each other. Gil jumps from saying "lebron should get extra points for these circumstances" to "lebron is numerically the best in this category, period"-you cant win a discussion when dude is just gonna change the metric/argument to favor who he has decided should win. If we're looking at it both of these ways, lets do it for all three and stack it up.
bron being the best player to play in the nba isn't up to debate, jordan and kobe system players with 5 and 6. bron the system with 8 straight trips to the finals and 4 chips. nuff said
@@peterkoroma7876 when did bron played in the system and got his 8? bruh you trippin? Bron is the system, we cannot possibly know what happens if he plays with a coach that has a system, unless he does next year. These are hypothetical arguments, that's all there is to it.
@@peterkoroma7876 if you think bron never had a system you don’t watch basketball. Bron is the system. Notice how every team he played on ran the exact same plays. Had the exact same play style. That’s not a coincidence.
@@kiggss Jordan was still a better shooter, more skilled, better defender, more creative, better scorer, better dunker, just better. 88-91 Jordan is better than anybody who ever played. Plus he had elite scoring seasons before.
The Bulls were in the ECF the yr before Phil took over. Jordan had a 2nd yr Pippen and Grant. Took the Champs to six games with no All-Star caliber teammates. Im sure if he had Wade and bosh he would've had more than 4 rings in 21yrs 😂
The better MJ argument is that all the accolades, the 40k points, 10 finals appearances, handpicking teammates, etc... never put him closer to winning a championship than Kobe or Jordan. He has had 21 chances and 4(ish) rings. It boils down to what you feel is better.
Which then activates the next chess piece in this endless debate. The one where people then compare the finals teams they Lebron went against. To be clear I have Jordan as the GOAT but that’s usually how that plays out in here
You HAVE TO bring up competition my guy. If Mj beat competition like this I’d have him as goat also. The top 3 players during Mj era was Mj, Hakeem, Malone. Now think about that…THE 3RD BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE didn’t shoot effectively beyond the free throw line, no 3 point shot, no crossover and no spin move. Along with 6 expansion teams. I got more js. That’s why a lot of people don’t have him as Goat
Kobe and Jordan were both confined to the system. They had to purposely break the system sometimes in order to win. If they were independent they would be more stat monsters than what they already have done. We can look at the Knicks to see that the system itself doesn’t bring success. It took the two greatest players of all time to put a HEMI in that thing. The system kept the teammates accountable but also made the superstar keep his teammates in the game until it was time to take over.
“Kobe & Jordan” that’s what they were. Two off the smartest most skilled basketball players ever on the planet and that’s what they did. Jordan could have had 8 rings if he didn’t retire and Kobe could have had 6 if it wasn’t for Boston’s big 4 when he didn’t have another consistent All Star caliber player like himself those last 3 finals appearances. The best players in the world maximized that system even though it hurt their overall stats in the end because they couldn’t play this iso ball we see in today’s game.
@@Kidimo_ehh take the system away from both and let Mj leave and team up with Hakeem and the glove and Kobe and Shaq still if not 3 peats get two at least and Kobe at least get one or 2 down the road so idk about that
u know the difference? mj play his role and acknowledge the system. lebron is the system, he wants the team to build around him, his wants to be the facilitator, he wants to play the floor general, he wants to build around him. thats how i see it.
Yes. LeBron even wanted to fire spo! One of the best coaches. LeBron is simply the problem. His fans just sell him as a victim, but he Was the offender everywhere.
Such an interesting insight. I suspect such systems also help with team chemistry and trust, generally; which, especially bears fruit in the playoffs and in clutch moments.
“Well I’ve been watching the show…You don’t. You don’t not like LeBron”~ John Salley
Comedic timing was clutch 😂 💎
Definitely klutch😄
🤣🤣
😂
Called out the obvious.
Definitely must've got his ass whipped by lebron his whole short career
It was Doug Collins who said "get the ball to Michael and get the hell out of the way", not Phil Jackson.
also that was ONE TIME
that was NOT the complete chicago bulls plan
he literally said that ONCE
@@TaireedillardNo he doesn’t lol
@@Taireedillard All of Jordan's rings did come in the triangle under Phil. 91/92/93/96/97/98. Collins made that statement in 1988. Phil became coach in 1990 and brought the triangle with him.
@taireedillard which one?
Collins way of coaching is why MJ failed so much and suffered 2 sweeps.
Salley was partially right. Phil Jackson said the triangle was designed to get role players shots, not the stars. He said MJ could get any shot at any time, but the triangle allowed the role players to stay involved in the offense.
So he wasn't on the team huh...he partially right cuz u seen some clip somewhere one day ....u people say anything I swear.
@@BHoodInk fucking thank you. like wtf the dude was literally there. fuck what one clip says. this dude is giving an indepth description, knowing the info can't be used against him in a game.
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
I think he kinda said playing against the triangle forced you to touched the open guy before helping to defend MJ
Gilbert..Phil Jackson was a ‘newbie’ Coach before he won with Michael Jordan
If Rashard McCants was a lawyer his clients would all go to jail. Every debate he prove the other's point 😂😂😂
If you can even figure out what the hell he’s saying.
EVERYTIME dawg!!! lmfao
Rashad actually made a great point when he said the Triangle forced MJ and Kobe to develop their bag around the system. I agree with this.
That was really funny 😂😂
@@sthao1733but then he loses it all with the bron has no bag/no jump shot bullshit
Lebron should never be compared to MJ and Kobe. Lebron created his own lane and blueprint for success. All of them are the great.
At least LeBron's Cavs played triangle offense. John Salley talks baloney nearly as much as Gil.
It’s about how that’s what yall don’t get but okay not here to argue an I like lebron he dose have his own game his longevity is incredible
The only blueprint he created was how to join up with all stars and buy rings.
@@iwishiwasthomasshelby they all had all stars on their team dumb ass
Lebron has as many rings as Steph Curry. Not the goat, but the 2nd best player ever.
Mccants tried to deny the fact he don’t like Lebron & Sally said “ I’ve been watching the show you don’t “ 🤣😭😭
Why should a grown man like another man. It's not personal its facts. Bron has female energy. Men don't like to hang out with woman. Those who do men don't respect. Men like bron needs to be worship.
And Gil tries to deny the fact that’s he’s not biased. He’s biased against 90s basketball
@@ryanmatt5541 everyone is biased, just like you’re biased, I’m biased, no one is objective when it comes to sports. Anyone that says otherwise is lying
@@danielsims916 🎯🎯🎯
He try so hard every time to put Kobe into the MJ and Lebron conversation 😂😂
Mccants will make a great argument poorly
Perfect way to describe him
😂😂😂😂
He be right though and wrong 😭
😂😂😂😂
@sportstalkonly1442 if McCants your lawyer you doing life for a parking ticket and you ain't even got a car.
He did not really just ask who’s better between the 25 year old and the 38 year old right? 😂😂
He did
Mccants make my A$$ itch😅
Jennings got me hot from saying malik monk better than donovan mitchell
Bro was just arguing up and down mike was the goat couple months ago Brandon is starting to learn tv I think😭 because the man will say anything
To this day mans had me heated
40,50,50,70,40,60..make it make sense is all I ask..& they give us right to criticize them when they criticize players whose career double lap theirs..nasty work..talking bout ”Devin Booker can go” what you just say?
True Indeed and slighting Donavan Mitchell
Jennings is a complete airhead! He's afraid to go against Gilbert's takes even when it's complete nonsense!
McCants has solid opening points, that he just consistently drops the ball with.
I was agreeing with him until he said lebron doesn’t have a bag smh
Because he never had a point. He tried to piggy back off of John Sally point!
@@Mmmkay.. yeah thats one of the weirdest things being said about Bron now lol.
@@harwn999 fair point lol
@@popetaytvespecially considering the fact that his bag has gotten bigger the older he’s become.
15:40 “this is a great analogy, I’m stealing this for a segment”😂😂
He learned to listen😂
Nobody:
Rashard: “ *YOUR HONOR MY CLIENT IS GUILTY!* “
Judge: “…sir you’re the defendant”
"I'm just being serious” 😂😂
He sucks just a bench player
And Lebron is nowhere near Mike.
He was a first round pick how would he be coming off the bennnnnch💡🤨😐.......🤔💭........waiiiitt a minute your just a casual aren't you?..... and aren't you a🧌 too???wait your one of those casual🧌's???🤯first time meeting one nowww I get it 😐.........if you don't get the fook outta here with that 🐂-💩🙄😮💨
@@Daniel-lf7umI’ll take the money and the rings along with the extended career to sit on the bench then.
@@Daniel-lf7um you are retarded
The main issue is LeBron had the option to have a system NUMEROUS times because Bron had heavy influence on coaching choices. And the one time he was in a system (Miami) he decided to leave. You can make the argument he chose this career.
Running in back with a injured miami heat squad that has a system or be the first player in your city’s history to bring a championship home which doesnt have a system but alot more potential than it did in the first stint? Im picking the second one too
I really don’t understand why nobody talks about that.. he literally picks the rookie coaches that coach his teams.. it’s always been his decision. He just doesn’t want a system.. he wants the top players, not the system
He had to go back and win with cleavland to get that monkey or demon of his back...
@@jaun74talking rubbish about things u don't know.
Bingo
John Salley created this chaos and just sitting back enjoying it 🤣 20:55
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
Lol 🤣🤣🤣
Nice twist having him on the podcast
Exactly lol
Exactly! John just be saying stuff😂
This was a Great Interview bring John Salley back so much basketball knowledge was dropped. One of my favorite episodes. I come back to this episode a lot.
40k career points w/o a bag is quite impressive Rashad 😂😂
6'8" 240,280,260 That's pretty hard to stop coming straight at you.
Right
@@libraalibaba how is that lebrons fault lol that’s how he was born why wouldn’t he use that to his advantage
@@Scottii1 just saying he couldnt do that at 6'3" which imo makes Kyrie better than Lebron. Imagine if Kyrie was that size with same skill set lol
Not impressive if all I have to do is truck my way to the rim for easy points or foul shots. And if they send extra defenders I’ll just throw it to my shooters standing in the corner so they can bail me out.
Compared to , having a killer mentality and having multiple offensive options like ball handling, shooting 3s, post up, step back, finish at rim etc. I have a deeper bag AND I HAVE MORE CHIPS. I think that’s impressive
the system don't mean sh*t if you don't have players like MJ, Kobe, Shaq. We saw what happened in NY
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂, 🤷🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️Now why U gotta go an use NEW YORK as a example?? LOL 😂 🤣 😆 😅😅😅🤣🤣😅😅😅😅🤦🏿🤦🏿🤣😅😅😅😅😅😅💯✊🏾🖤
New York never had an elite player next to Melo at or near a prime.
@@marcuskennedy7357 Melo to me is a great scorer, not a 2 way player like MJ or Kobe, not even on D wade or Duucan’s level
@@marcuskennedy7357 They really tried to run the triangle with Noah and Dalembert 😂
@@DavidZhang-z4bdoesn’t matter, none of those players won without that specific system. They never proved they could.
Love that actual players discuss instead of never played talking heads. Great conversation.
Good point
SAS = lavar ball
What Salley saying is cap though. LeBron can't play in the triangle. LeBron is ball dominant is avg off-ball
I dont if Rashad lacks understanding..What was pointed out is Kobe and Jordan worked in the ssytem, while Bron didnt and still excels. He enhanced his shooting, fadeaways, and took advantage of his athleticism. Even though Bron isnt in the system he won 4 championships..If he was with Phil, that 4 might be 8 then, inside a system.
Am I crazy that I completely understand Mccants this episode?
Edit: Nevermind. This blunt hittin.
lol
Yes 😅🤞🏽
😂😂😂
LOL
Phil Jackson was coaching in Mexico when the Bulls hired him to come and coach an already MVP/DPOY Michael Jordan.
It was the fact that MJ listened and made everyone else fall in line that made it work. If he treated Phil the way LBJ treats ALL his coaches going back to HS, none of us would know who Phil was.
You’re wrong. Phil was in in Chicago when
Mike won DPOY/MVP in 88.
Phil was hired in 87 as an assistant under Doug Collins.
Bro I grew up in Chicago watching Payton and Jordan, and you're wrong
He's not completely wrong, just wrong about when Phil started with the bulls, but that's semantics to what he was saying. The rest of his point is valid, LeBron has never trusted or supported management & at times has actually actively worked against them or took responsibilities off them for himself. Le GM.
@@Haynes5721
Don’t muddy up the convo with semantics, Phil was a behind the bench asst that was hired because he was willing to run Tex Winters the triangle offense that Krause wanted to run and Doug Collins didn’t.
Phil was no coaching prodigy. Krause just really liked him.
Jordan and Kobe had to sacrifice numbers in order to win championships.
Mike didnt like the system because he didn’t want to lose games with role players handling the ball too much and taking shots. He was hard on his teammates to step their game up instead of running to replace them. They eventually did and he won 6 chips because of it.
Kobe bucked the system a lot the first 3 chips, but he stuck with it enough to win 5 chips.
@@Flamangatang
I’m muddying the waters but YOU said some incorrect shit?
Got it…. Facts actually matter but I digress.
Carry on
Record sales doesn't mean the music is good. It just means it's popular.
When you say that to an Eminem fan, they storm the Capitol
Prime example is Drake
@@mg19cal Em fans are Pop fans not Hip Hop fans.
Facts
On the flip side...sometimes it means both.
I don’t think people realize what they say when they talk.. LeBron has multiple championships how many is he supposed to have 21 ?? That expectation alone should make people take a step back and reflect on their desires for other players careers
To me that's what's wrong with fans and the whole NBA. So now nobodies career was special because they didn't win shit. Agent 0 wasn't shit, Charles Barkley wasn't shit😂 makes me laugh really
@@chillaxboi2109yea it’s a competitive sport so you gotta win or go home with your millions 🤷🏽♂️
Rashad started off so strong but his bias kicked in. Mike & Kobe never won anything outside the triangle. (I'm not knocking them for that either.)
They also didn't jump around team to team either
@@billyenglish7231you sound like a meat rider
@@billyenglish7231they didn’t have to, they had a front office who had brains and actually made good moves. Every team bron played on the front office was brain dead
@@billyenglish7231 if bron had shaq, that bulls squad, hof coaches, and didn't have to go up against better competition he wouldn't have left. situations are different.
@@givenchyoverallMiami front office brain dead ? Wow lmao
Lebron use to have a system:
Surround him with shooters.
lol... that just Allen Iverson 2001 drive n dish.
@@mrblend FACTS 😂
@JohnnytNatural They got the players he wanted. How do y'all forget. None of the players play their game. They wait til he runs the clock down & hr wants someone to make a shot with no rhythm & he plays no defense.. yikes!
@@mrblend lol thats just the college basket ball system lol
USE TO LOL
Phil was a new coach when began coaching Jordan. Riley was a new coach when he coached Magic, and Kerr was a new coach when he coached Curry. Bron isn’t the only player to win with new coaches. Also, Miami had a system when Bron played there.
What system and what these systems do without LBJ WAS GONE⁉️
@@2123lottoErik Spoelstra still went to two NBA Finals without a superstar as his best player
@@2123lottowell Miami went to the finals twice post lebron
He’s gotten more coaches their first rings than the others though 🤔
@@Bestthingsince93 so we rewarding coaches for going to the finals and losing but insult lebron for going to 10 finals and losing 6. Please make it make sense
When Gil was talking bout that music as an example that’s literally what’s going on with youngboy vs industry
This was probably one of the best MJ, Kobe, Lebron debate I’ve ever seen. ESPN and other media/podcast will definitely be using the analogies yall used. Shoutout to Gil’s Arena 🙌🏽🙌🏽
💯
It’s not lol Rashad counter should’ve been tht if Jordan and Kobe was to move around and stack the decks how many chips would Jordan or Kobe have
Moving around or even stacking the deck does nothing.... History has shown that too... Only guarantee wins is a great system @@Heemkeem_9
@@Heemkeem_9 they didn’t need to cuz of the team an organization/coach they had. Unless you’re saying MJ could’ve had better players than Rodman, Pippen, Kerr, etc…and Kobe could’ve had better than Shaq, Pau?
@@moah2086 lmaoo dude just named …. STEVE KERR 😂😂🤣🤣😳😳 and YES Jordan could’ve had better players than Scottie and Rodman … do u know what Dwayne was the first two years of the 3 peat ? Easily a top 4-6 player in the league and then u pair that with bosh who was a top 8-12 player in the league , and pau !?! 🤣🤣🤣😂 really really good player but he’s no top 5 player in the world lol go look at tht two peat lakers roster again … went to the finals 3 years in the west when it was as tuff as it’s ever been … imagine what they would’ve did if Kobe got to play with an Amare and a Chris Paul for 4 years . Shaq is shaq and I give u tht but to me Kobe’s career defining years are from 04-2011
When all else fails, Just talk about LeBron. Dude is always brought up for no reason whatsoever.
🧢
The most hated athlete of all time
@@thomaswatson201130well deserved 💯🤨🤙🏿
You keep clicking on the videos but want to complain. Bro have a secret obsession with LeBron lmao
Um gil talks about bron 24/7 on anybody's show. Just like unk..
The triangle didn’t enhance Kobe and Jordan. It enhanced the players around them.
Yes you are right, Jordan was still Jordan, although he got smarter over time the triangle was designed to take the weight off Jordan but with a triangle you gotta have the pieces, Scottie had to evolve, Kobe and Shaq, Kobe was always Kobe he was always gonna work hard so you right it didn’t enhance them cause they were going to work on their game anyway.
If the players around you play better it makes it easier for you to hoop with enhances you … example KD in golden state he was just as good before that but when you put him around lethal shooters now you either gotta leave Steph or klay or let kd go 1v1 and teams tried everything and you couldn’t stop it
@@aaotrey106 yeah that’s cause it was a system, in anything that you in life you have to have a system so you can stay on track it’s the same with the team, if you have a system it makes winning easy but that’s if you have player capable. A lot teams Bron right now isn’t in a system, their system is, shoot the 3 and give it to AD and Bron just fill in I’d say they need a coach that will come and just turn it around
This the most factual comment of the topic. The triangle prevented teams from loading up on mike, shaq and kobe. Period. It gave them space to go one v one
Preach
Can we drop the "system" claim? He had excellent structure, Xs and Os, and supporting players in Miami, Cleveland 2nd stint, and in LA. He had enough.
On the low, people forget how LeBron ran out and got Shaq to join Cleveland in 2010.
Everything Sally said in that podcast clip was on point
He literally makes sense.
🎉
Maybe it’s because he coached three of the top 10 players of all time. I think my grandmother could’ve won a championship with those rosters.
Top 8
guy's arguing without communication skills 😢
That label analogy was on point Gil
No it wasn’t
@@matthewgabbana5021 explain
@@brandonwatson5290 Lebron doesn’t like being coached, he wants to be the coach, even if he had the same coaching staffs as MJ and Kobe . Lebron wants to run everything and call the shots
@@matthewgabbana5021you just described an “independent artist” 😅
@@GirlDad_93 Ok well don’t get upset if he doesn’t have a “good coaching “ system if he doesn’t try too. Even if he had Phil Jackson, bron still wouldn’t be coached
Man y’all gotta put Tim Duncan up there…5 chips in 6 tries
Spurs and Duncan never repeated Bro..meaning they never dominated ..lakers three peated and repeated in Spurs prime
Here you go with this chip shit!!did you not listen to wtf they were saying or you just jump str8 in the comments
@@newelldavis1858duncan won 5 during kobe’s prime and 4 during shaqs. they dominated u jus tryna move the goalpost
@@newelldavis1858 you casuals are funny. Duncan never had a top 10 player ever on his team. Tony was never a top 10 player / Manu was never a top 10 player / kawhi was never a top 10 player in SA. Kobe had Shaq not only was Shaq a top 3 player in the league at the time but he’s also A TOP 10 player OF ALL TIME LOL. Give Duncan a top 10 player and see how many championships he wins lol
Yeah Duncan gets overlooked and it’s crazy I’m 29 and I remember how dominant the Spurs were like every year form early 2000’s to early 2010’s that’s insane.
Gils arguement about bron still doing well without a system is weak. It’s not like he was winning with traditional teams he was the catalyst for teams stacking the deck in the modern nba.
Aye that record label comparison by Gil was a great one never heard it out like that
You casuals please do NOT give Phil credit for the Triangle. Tex Winter was the mind behind the triangle and was on Phil’s staff pn every team
So Phil Jackson and the creator were BOTH on the bulls roster. Got it.
@@koolaid14100lol fr
Not everyone's fault the story ain't told .... calm down hero
Phil won 11 rings implementing the Triangle. He certainly mastered it.
But you give Jordan credit as if Jordan knew ANYTHING about a triangle before Phil (tex)
Wait, Lebron was like Magic. Who was Magic’s coach when he won his championships? Pat Riley. When Lebron was in Miami whose system was he in? Pat Riley. If Lebron wanted to be a part of a winning system, he had one. He left it.
When LeBron joined the Lakers, Magic Johnson was the president of the team. They missed the playoffs, and Magic left his position. If LeBron for once would've taken responsibility of his team, he'd kept playing with Magic, then LeBron would have 10 rings.
@@penkima4923missed the playoffs cause he was hurt?? He was in 4th before he went down lol
He left and won twice since Miami. How many times has Miami won since LeBron left.
Miami made it to the finals and lost to ...... Lebron
@@AdeezyandReezyLLC he wasn't hurt don't you remember he activated playoff mode
Pat riley didn't coach the heat when bron was there fuck are you talking about. This is just like phil jackson with the knicks as the president... he didn't coach the players bruh... Jst because phil was a generational coach doesn't mean that system would translate to a newbie coach when he was a president.
Jordan only played about 15 seasons to win his six championships, and he was not chasing records. Now, when ya talk about Lebanon's records, ask yourself how many years it took him to get them. 21 seasons with four rings. How many years did it takes him to pass MJ in points ?
MJ shot the ball more within 15 years of playing basketball.
Wasn’t chasing anything then why’d he play with the wizards🤣
Nonsense, and I'm MJ fan. All the greats play to set a record.
So you telling me lebron didn’t play in a system in Miami? D wade , Bosh , an bron
Defensive one yes. Offensive, not really. Look how golden state moved around, Denver, spurs. Those are offense systems because they dont wear out your best player.
Its called a Super Team system
Thats dwade system my guy not lebron
@@Freshprince186hmmm ray allen dwade and bosh offered him plenty of offensive support. Had lebron not choked in 2011 dwade would have won the fmvp.
@@2cents250you are wrong, but for the right reasons, he had space with bosh and ray the year after, 2012 where bosh was moved as 5, before in 2011 the was no space
Jordan’s skill set had coaches calling him the best basketball player ever before he stepped on an NBA floor.
Bobby knight
Lies he was not the man coming into the NBA. LeBron was.
@@malikdavis1451 Hahahahaha 🤣😂
@@johnp550not sure why you are laughing he is actually right. He never even went first in the draft. That was The Dream. Jordan went 3rd.
He got to develop without any pressure.
@@malikdavis1451that's 🧢... Yes he was.
McCants be talking in circles bruh, basically tryna find a reason to hate on Bron lol
Made himself dizzy with his talking points!! lol
Haha yeap. Never fails. He fucked up when he said Bron would have been as good as Gil thinks he is if he had a system. He thought that proved his point as to why Bron ain't the GOAT. But Gil exposed it with the record label analogy. Lmao. Anytime he makes a point & then realizes it actually works against him, he'll just change his point 😂
@@JackmeriusT Big facts! he on the show to create controversy anyways so i guess he play his role lol
Man that Nicca a fan , he had a whole lebron laker jersey on in one of the recent shows. He a goofy
Yeah he was struggling to justify his hate
Did you get the money that I sent you😂😂😂 best line ever…
If LeBron played for Pop or in any elite system he would have 8 rings by now. I have said this for a decade.
Cap. Bron played with stacked superteams and if you named the 5 best coaches in the NBA rn Spo would be 1 and Lue would be 4 or 5
So why wouldn’t he go play for Popivich then since he was a free agent?hell hes a free agent now and probably not going to have a good coach to come in so go play4Pop now
He would have gotten the coach fired lol
@@IknowMoreThanYou Those are not system coaches.
@@odelljones6482 It is prob too late but I wanted LBJ on the Spurs for a long time.
Rashad don’t understand that without the triangle, we watched Jordan and Kobe lose multiple times, pre and post Phil
Yep, Jordan lost and told the organization that drafted him to get a coach, draft, and build. Lebron made "The Decision".
@pickledbeatz315 thing is jordan had an owner that wanted to win and at the time of the decision the douche who owns the cavs refused to invest he was happy with what he was making and once lebron went to Miami he promised to open up his wallet to get him back in Cleveland once Bron tool the crappy cavs to the finals before his heat run management expected him to keep doing that with G league talent around him
LMAO Jordan joined a provety franchise. Bulls were in the ECF Phil before Phil took over. Jordan took the Champs to six games with no All-Star caliber teammates. Imagine if he had Wade and bosh in 89 instead of a 2nd yr Pippen and Grant. The triangle isn't making the 24-Spurs a championship caliber team.
@@jgadventures4161False. LeBron had a team built around him and failed. The Cavs were favored to come out of the East in 09 & 10
@sideshowbobsaget8876 4x champ bringing trophies to every team is failure now lmao
This was the most introspective and informative discussion I've heard on this topic, really got me thinking.
I thought players are compared based on individual skill and not team accomplishments or team effort.
Lebrons does all...MJ doesn't. So who is better as an individual skill set. Look at individual stats and longevity..he still plays to date
@@edobwoy I'm no expert but I've watched them both at the prime of their careers and MJ never feared a soul...ever. Amongst other attributes I do not see in LeBron that I see in MJ I put MJ light years above LeBron though he is still exceptional in his own right.
@@tonynature fearing a foul is not a skill. Making assists, rebounds, scoring, playing all positions, chasing down blocks, physicality at 40 years old are all skills. He leads MJ in all those. He leads MJ in NBA playoff records. He is the ONLY player to average 25+points in 19 seasons without taking a break to rest apart from injuries.
It's data that can be verified so you are totally wrong.
@@edobwoy I've seen games where LeBron was clearly shook for all the world to see when faced with certain opponents, Nowitzki and Kahwi being the most notable. With regards to stats the modern game is so open offensively that records will favor modern era greats, I mean these players commit carrys nearly every possesion and you've only got to watch TH-cam to see the ridiculous travels and delicate foul calls, the defensive 3 second rule done away with rim prtoectors and we live in an age where out of shape Europeans consistently rank as the leauges top players and MJ still has the best PER. I've watched both careers and the eye test trumps the stats for me.
@@tonynature stats are stats man. You cant argue behind stats. You didn't create NBA. Don't argue like a child.
It messed me up when John Salleys character was killed in Bad Boys 😢 🤦♂️
Mccant be having them on ropes but he be falling out the rails in the middle of the conversations 😂🤦🏾♂️
Facts McCants challenge the narrative and incorrect bs because he know some is hating
No he's just wrong. The phones from 20 years ago aren't as good as the phones now. It's the evolution of humans. Jordan was huge and that's cuz we didn't have social media and all that shit. Lebron has been so great during all this social media era and everything. It's so obvious lebron would have been better if you take him at age 26 and put him against Jordan.
BS .... You take LECHOKE at 26 and put him up against MJ he'll QUIT just like Musgy Bouges did. Wht y'all dnt wnt to Accept ADMIT or Deal With is the Simple fact tht the game is easier today, bcse if you take the LECHOKE who got SWEPT by DALLAS with the same Team and put them against the 91 PISTONS who MJ beat they wud be SWEPT AGAIN but if you take tht same 91 MJ and put them against the MAVS, yow the tbl will be Turned EASILY and hey amma play with my same Bulls Squad.
Nah he just be wrong yall trippin
you hate lebron too
Rashad tries to make points to discredit Bron, starts moving his hands and adding more points… eventually he just makes the case for the Bron being the GOAT. He should just start arguing that Bron is his GOAT… it’ll eventually lead to points strengthening Mike and Kobe’s cases.
Rashad might’ve made the best case for LeBron as the GOAT in this segment 😂
@@jeffjohnsonization The initial point was made by John Salley, which means it's not true. LeBron played in a triangle offense at least during his second stint with the Cavs.
Facts😂😂
I like how you guys try to convince yourselves that Lebron is the GOAT with any BS opinion lol.
@@dodgertalk5764mj is definitely number 1. Russell, Kareem, lebron make up the top four in my opinion
Not a Bron fan but it's crazy to say he doesn't have a bag
He doesn’t
@@OmniscientVirtuositylol the bagless one
He doesn't have many moves
What is his go to move?
When you’re unstoppable down hill train you don’t need much
He talkin bout “ you’re saying this “ when he just said that hypothetical for the first time .. only from him 😂😂
John Salley schooled them young boys with his basketball knowledge.
Yep he’s a og
No he didnt
@@giancarlocorrell5893uh yes he did
@@welc318lmao no, he didn't
LMAO LeBron can't play in the triangle he dosent have the skill set. LeBron is ball dominant and isn't elite off-ball. Had nothing to do with the system. What did the triangle do in 06 & 07 with Kobe?
We gon ignore how salley said he’s 6’11 and 2 quarters 🤣 10:22
lol like nigga you 6’11 1/2 🤣🤣 talking about 2 quarters
He would have more rings if he didn't lose to the greatest starting lineup in NBA history. Kevin Durant going to the Warriors changed every single thing.
Oh don't forget he was in the finals at 22 and lost his two best teammates in 2015. That's why he don't got more rings but these ppl keep pushing narratives.
Nope it was the system boys said so .. n there so smart ... lmao
87-Lakers are the GOAT starting line up
@sideshowbobsaget8876 man go somewhere with this nonsense. A team from 4 decades ago does not have the best starting lineup
If the Warriors were so good how did James Harden with a injured Cp3 took them 7 games Patrick Beverly and Lou Williams role players took them 6 games but LeBron with a superteam couldn't even get you 2 games the warriors wasn't the best team ever the 96 Bulls are
And this why I stopped watching the FOX AND ESPN sports shows. These guys provide small nuggets and expert details
Anytime I see John Salley talkin Basketball, I watch.
What did u learn?
Any time I see John Salley talking basketball, he says something he obviously came up with himself and is not true.
-something no real one has ever said😂😂😂😂
Salley ..Pip ..Barkley ..Zeke etc …Jealous in their own way of MJ .and for good reason
You shouldn't be proud to say that. He will say anything to stay relevant.
Gilbert out here purposely flipping narratives..... Saying Jordan fans said LeBron was a pass 1st guy no Gil LEBRON FANS ALWAYS said that LeBron was a pass 1st guy and Jordan fans would call out his FGA per game and say pass 1st WHERE 🤷🏾♂️
he was being called a pass 1st when he came into the nba they compared him to magic 😂😂😂
yeah i caught that too
but br@ns@xuals as we all know by now have no strategy if they dont lie at some poiint
Lebron said himself that he's "not a scorer" he loves that fake narrative his fans created
@@ngtowfake narrative? He's 4th all time on assists
@@sportstalkonly1442he's not pass first tho. Westbrook is top 10 in assists too, would anybody ever call him pass first?
You can’t tell me none of these coaches wanted to implement some form of an offense that they can fall back on. It all changes when Bron comes to the team
Facts. Even Michael, as competitive and strong-willed as he is, acquiesced to Phil Jackson in order to win.
I agree 100%. Ain't no way none of these coaches want to win!! Bron is ball-dominant so players just spot up. What more you want them to do?
Right David Blatt tried
Those aren’t comparable to the Triangle
And he still got championships
Lebron played with way more top 75 nba players than everyone mentioned & if that analogy was correct that would make Magic Johnson better than Lebron n maybe the goat b/c he played w less superstars/allstars
Yo Gil, Phil wasn't a high profile championship coach UNTIL he paired with MJ!
True was MJ was just a stats guy until he paired with Phil. The gm revamped the locker room and Phil put in the triangle offense with his zen approach. All of that matters when it comes to winning
He did again with Kobe. It wasn't just MJ. Phil is the common denominator unlike Bellichek.
But he did it again without Mike though?
Did he do it without star players? Regular players so we can gauge his system? No Kobe and shaq are op players
@@smilejubjub has anyone ever won without and all-star caliber player or two?
I'm a pretty firm believer that a set system wouldn't enhance what LeBron does it would lessen it. Bron is the system wherever he goes for better or worse.
No such thing as a player being a system, people heard Harden say that and ran with it
For worse.
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
@@ZyouknowwhoitisalreadyKD said it about Kawhi first
LeBron doesn't have amazing fundamentals off ball lol. He loves the way he grew up playing in HS/AAU and is afraid of CHANGE as it makes him uncomfortable.
That's why Spoelstra went to Chip Kelly to learn his Spread Offense & fundamentally change how bigs play for him to succeed.
Not only that, the league literally dumbed down the rules to make it easier for perimeter players to succeed!
The Warriors, Bulls and Lakers were a solid system because of the chemistry they had with players that played together for a long period of time along with great coaching.
Their best players were also coachable and took blame and accountability
@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m let me guess. That’s a shot at LeBron?
@@carllee7122It’s not a shot, it’s just the truth.
There was no pressure to win like LeBron faced. LeBron was never given the luxury of time to build consistency because he was expected to win every year.
@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6mkobe coachable
McCants takes about LeBron never make sense because he allows his personal dislike for LeBron to over shadow the point his trying to make. I don’t know if it’s just that he can’t articulate what he really means because he doesn’t have the words in his vocabulary but he continues to contradict himself whenever the discussion about “the greatest” is bought up…
The points I wish people would articulate is how he is the all time turnover leader, but is considered a "good" passer. How he can't shoot further than 3 feet from the basket and he has both taken and missed more shots that Kobe. How often n he complains to the refs and just doesn't play defense even going so far as to not run back on defense. How he doesn't play 82 games. I'm sure I can dig out more, but these are the main points.
@@darksaint0124 I can show you actual stats and data that will debunk all of your talking points. You literally are repeating the talking points from tv shows and media heads instead of actually taking the time to do your own research. I’m not going to go back and forth with someone who chooses not to educate themselves..
@@darksaint0124 every body top 10 in assists have a lot turnovers and even after 21 seasons Kobe still has the most misses alltime and if lebron can’t shot past 3 feet Jordan and Kobe can’t shoot past 1 because the both have lower fg and three point percentage than bron and look at the stats lebron one of the better defenders in league actually watch basketball
Couldn’t say it better 💯👌🔥 Pure knowledge respect 👏🏻 Hope they can be more smart people like you
@@wokeprodigy3718 yeah but he been the all time turnover leader for bout 7 years now
Salley dismissing Olajuwon's championship takes away his credibility. Also, no mention of Kareem in a GOAT discussion, further undercuts the discussion.
@sishaq12 I understand most people didn't see Kareem in his prime. But he should always be in the GOAT conversation.
@@jasonjohnson6987
ALWAYS
Salley isn't trying to diminish Hakeem championships because he believes the Bulls would've won those seasons if the GOAT didn't retire. MANY people believe that. Lol
Ever notice Detroit Pistons players inevitably in the end go against Jordan.
Because they beat Jordan and he’s not invincible in their view. Bird and McHale also speak to LeBron as being greater.
Facts Detroit Had the blueprint they beat La,Bos,and Bulls
Dirty play isn't basketball!@@factsovertheyfeelings5303
@@mobetta2092Bird never ever said LeBron was better!
@@jackers245Bird kind of said it recently “he’s one of the greatest if not the greatest” i don’t remember the interview he said it on but was not too long ago
yo thas real player talk bro... appreciate, appreciate... glad to hear your voices... you'll walk the walk... your opinion bounces anyone else...pure class bro's
Show me where this 6’9 269 pound kid had NO skill set was so gifted as a scorer, defender and not just a passer???? WTH is McCants talking about?
Skills meaning shooting ability, handles, can get to any spot he wants n score. Great free throw shooter, 3pt, mid range, post up etc. bron relies on athleticism & ball dominance. No real skillset but IQ. His rebounds n assists aren’t skillsets. He literally tells his teammates to move when getting a board n he holds the ball n pass last minute to get an assist. This why he shys away from big moments cuz he lacks creating his own with no real skillset. Reason why he needed wade, kyrie, ad to fill in the void.
@thegoatmane2715 in order to have both athleticism AND skills it takes the proper IQ to formulate and use as an asset which he’s done his entire career. And last time I checked bball is a team sport which means ALL legendary superstars needed help in order to win. Russell, Bird, Zeke, Steph, MJ, Kobe and MJ did NOT win titles alone it took a total team effort and special players, Pippen was just as much an asset to Mike as Wade was to James
@@thegoatmane2715I respect that…. But, when you have time, watch his highlights from 2007-2018, then, tell me he don’t have a bag…… not true…. He always had handles, just not kyrie, he worked on his jumper, and, post game…… like I said, I respect your opinion, but, I disagree
@@thegoatmane2715and, he’s proven he’s there for the big moments….. it’s video proof…. We just want him to shoot 50 times a game
@@thegoatmane2715 At this point, there isn't a player in history who has come through in more big moments than Lebron.
McCants has a point. Why do people take away Kobe’s three-peat with Shaq but people don’t take away LeBron’s back to back with Wade and Bosh? Wade already had a chip before LeBron even came to Miami.
Shaq was 3 time finals mvp
🎉
@@AJLow-So, you are using the Finals MVP as a matrix. I see your point.
@AJLow- Wade would've won FMVP in 2011 if LeBron didn't choke
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 Exactly 👍
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 No choke Dallas was better otherwise they wouldn't have swept back to back champs Lakers of Kobe Gasol..
My new favorite is Gil restates macants argument, and then Brandon realizes how right Gil is, then kinda gets all excited but it’s like a chill excited.
Gil is totally wrong. If we wanna compare MJ and Lebron without a system, we should only compare the first few years of MJ and Lebron to balance out the longevity of Lebron.
dont act like bron never had help, thats disrespectful to d wade, bosh, kyrie, ad, etc
Comparing lebron to an independent artist is insane he had the most help and ran offense how he wanted. He didn’t have a system bc he didn’t want to be in one.
This is facts. LeBron had an opportunity to play for pop. He loves Pop, He didnt want a system.
😂😂😂😂😂
Help will get you to the finals but a System will win you championships
He had a system in Miami. Pat Riley's system. He left because he wants to be the system.... And as we can see him being the system doesn't work. Second greatest player my ass only player in the top ten with more finals losses than wins. Played with with more HOF all stars and superstars than both Kobe and Jordan combined..
@@saviourholland651how doesn’t it work hes got 4
Gil been Lebrons #1 Superfan since he tapped his chest that game 😂😂😂
No it’s been since Klutch has writing his checks
gil is real
On some joker loves batman shit
Everybody is super fan of MJ.. what’s the difference
he's definitely getting paid off by Klutch sports.
Although I agree, you guys glossed over the fact of Lebron being in the eastern conference for most of his career. Put Kobe In the east during his prime with Kyrie/Love or D Wade/Bosh and he would've made just as many final appearances. He had much tougher comp in the west. This isn't a fair hypothetical for Lebron MJ, or Kobe. Let all 3 of them just be great
Kobe shot more than lebron and shot below average for his career, being in the eastern conference doesnt change his poor shooting percentage.
Kobe was never efficient Never lol even when he won finals mvp against the Celtics 2010 they gave it to him because it’s nobody else they could give it too without backlash Kobe won finals MVPs as the worst superstar to ever win with terrible shooting percentage
Kobe isn’t in goat debate. His #s too low compared to mj and lebron. Kobe shot 43 % for his career . Jordan shot 50 %
The same can be said of Prime LBJ in the West with better put together teams. He probably still went to 10 straight and most likely won more.
Kobe also went to a Top 2 franchise too and I think that's glossed over. Easier to recruit and get talent. Is it ironic when he left he went to a destination franchise in Miami? Easier to recruit to Miami LA over Cleveland
this one of the best debates on the matter i ever heard
The basketball analogy is good, so MJ with the label and Bron independent but all of Bron hits have major features
And he got ghostwriters
He still ain't the goat fool
@@vontaytheus4082subjective i think he is so what 🤷🏾♂️ mj aint the goat either so this argument gone forever be pointless all i know is bron a better all around player! mj got niave fans just cuz yall made his name a thing so dudes glaze him
@@jameskelly6347 Yea you went to far with the analogy, hell Mike had the same feature every hit which was Scottie Pippen.
@@willg1083 Jordan stayed with the same record label how many labels has bron been on
McCants whole demeanor changed at the end 😂😂😂 Feelings was hurt
Lebron does have a system. Erick Spoelstra gave it to him. It wasn’t till he got to Miami that his iq kicked in to play the game more methodical than out of pure athleticism. Just listen to his podcast with JJ…. Just because he didn’t play the Triangle doesn’t mean that he didn’t have a system.
born always been methodical Gil has even talked about the preparation and how he was dissecting film in the wizards series in bros first Cavs stint he didn't play off pure athleticism you don't average 7 assists a game off pure athleticism with a team that lacked real floor spacers and shot creators
LeFlop has a system Whining and flopping. He left in free agency and could have played for Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr or Popovich but choose to not to so he could get paid and play with other all stars.
His system is for Losing. What IQ? Like he wants to take over the front office and fire his coaches. Hahahaha! Le fan girls like you are lame.
What was the system? I watched the same podcast. I didn’t hear him say anything about a particular system. He talked about certain plays they ran. Maybe I missed it. What system did they run?
@@rayprimmusicthe plays are part of the system. Basically the offense has to run through LeBron, that's the system
LBJ has 4 rings to MJ's 6 but leads Jordan in nearly every other statistic. Jordan leads in points, averaging 30.1 to 27.1, but James beats Jordan in rebounds, 7.5 to 6.2; assists, 7.4 to 5.3; field goal percentages, 50.5 to 49.7; and 3-point percentages, 34.7 to 32.7
This doesn't diminish MJ's greatness, or make LBJ greater than MJ any more than 6 to 4 rings make MJ better. They're both the best at their approach to the game!
I’ll never understand why Phil Jackson doesn’t get more recognition in the GOAT debate. Ppl talk about 4-6, but ignore one of the Greatest HC/systems of all time. The triangle can't even work in modern NBA because the competition is better.
Edit: Ngl, I don't know ish about the triangle. I care more about the GOAT debate. Y'all taught me a lot in the replies though. 😆
It actually would work now guys dont play defense for real in the modern era they r just more athletic but dont have high iqs its so much spacing r n it would b insane
The Bulls were in the Eastern conference Final before Phil Jackson took over as head coach. It was the Pistons who were in their way. And no one else was giving the Pistons postseason losses except for the Bulls during that span. The Triangle is a great system. But it helps to have three top ten all time (MJ, Kobe, Shaq) players in the Triangle. Phil tried to implement the
Triangle in New York with Carmelo. Let's just say it didn't work out very well.
😅😂..what??
He does. But he implemented a system that wasn’t his . It was tex winter system
1. Tex Winter created the Triangle.
2. Chicago was making ECFs BEFORE Phil
3. He managed talent. He would often just let the players figure it out. He wasn't so much a strategic Xs and Os.
It's just player/ball movement. Nobody can move faster than the ball.
Rashad literally KILLS ME LIKE BRO!
if someone asked Rashad "how good is Lebron" you already know his response would be "he aight"
He’s arguing to be right not to learn. Listening is key🔑 The music analogy is on point
Man this dude piss me off everytime he talks about bron 😂him and skip been having sneaky links
This was a hell of a show. Y'all broke this down. Very intellectual
LBJ Doesn't Have a Jumpshot yet he shots Longer Distance and More Efficient Than The Guys He's Been compared to ...ouch
So we gonna forget about Lebron being with Pat Riley / Spoelstra
Purely for content i doubt any of these guys actually believe Leflop is better
And he left because he couldn’t control the team and get rid of spoelstra
False
Pat Riley was never his coach just overseer. Spoelstra is not Phil Jackson or Kerr and they never ran no type of triangle type off offense
Pat wouldn't coach and Eric was a rookie. Mj wouldn't play when Phil left the bulls,and couldn't win with the wizards,he couldn't even make the playoffs, and that wizards team had some great players.
Anthony Jamison
Jerry Stackhouse
Juan Dixon
Christian Latner
Jahade White
Richard Hamilton
Turon Lue
Ect.
There is no greatest of all time. There's only a goat of every era. We diminish those who came before when we say greatest of all time. Salley on the show was a blessing
Michael Jordan is the GOAT of basketball
MJ has been and will remain as GOAT in the near future.
Lebron James fanboy cope 🤣🤣
@user-lt1fx2he5s Jordan is not a better basketball player than Kareem. He won since 8yrs old until 40
Jordan had way more skill @@kevlamar6613
Steve Kerr said the triangle wasn't for MJ and Pippen, because they were gifted enough to be able to score in any offense.. It was more so for everyone else on the team..
Pippen wasn't gifted enough to score in any offence, he often didn't score in the Bulls offence in the 2nd 3-peat and his first 3 years (including the chip year)
@@JT-km6th Yeah, thanks JT, but I think i’ma go with the guy who was actually on the court with them..
@@MitchellelOfGH do it, he's wrong just like many ballers who have been on the court have been wrong. By your logic, whatever Kendrick Perkins says is gospel because he made it to the NBA and you didn't.
What a dumb way of going about things.
@@JT-km6th Kendrick Perkins wasn’t on the court w/ Pippen, nor has he gone on to lead another organization to the promised land multiple times as a head coach.. Your analogy is horrible.. Stop while you’re only this far behind..
That was Jon Salley point, with the other players being able to always be in the offense. That opened it up for the stars to have a field day and only worry about there Own scoring. As to Lebron had to get his point and creat for his teammates.
Bro he was in a system in Miami I think he went two for 3-4 in the finals if I’m not mistaken. With a super team. Then the word is he didnt like pat riley checking him, and he tried to get Spo fired. When he couldn’t turn into le-gm and they lost. Then he left to try and win in Cleveland, now that kyre was there and getting attention!
And that’s another reason why his scoring doesn’t matter because his scoring was consequent of him playing since 17 not because he was a prolific scorer. He was trying to play like magic. Magic was a better halfcourt player on offense than lebron. Lebron wants to run in transition every time. When you stop that he’s cooked unless he’s in a system surrounded with talent like Miami!
@@ageg3572bro lebron shoots over 50% in the half court what are you talking about. He averages 5 transition points per game which would mean he still averages 22 points per game outside of that which is still more than magic 😭
They still played the LeBron James system in Miami and that is why they lost in 2011. D Wade had to change his game up and play off the ball so LeBron could have the ball in his hands more. D Wade himself stated this. To add to that, D Wade watched tapes of MJ to learn to do so.
😂😂 Yall funny AF. I love this show. So many comedic takes. I love it. Hilarious! 😂😂 I'm forever tuned in. I need this level of laughter in my life
rt
Jordan's biggest numbers he put up was before he played in a system. And all he needed was one other all star and he never not won a championship. He's the GOAT.
While I agree that Jordan is the goat it must be said that Pippen became an all star in 1990. That was the only year Jordan had an all star and didn't win a championship. (Not counting 95 of course). It also must be said that Jordan did win without an all star in 1998. No Pippen.
Not a chip!
@@cooljohn6961 Yes a chip
bro deff had more then 1 other star
@@ObaDaGoat The only all star MJ ever played with was Pippen. Ever
I’m a high school coach I played at UTEP, I just hate the fact that they overshadow that in the 80s & 90s shooting 29% from was elite, defense was a lot easier to play in my day. I can’t imagine guarding 5 players who all shoot 35% from 3. Players today are a different so skilled. You young bucks are seriously gifted man. Rules are a lot of stiffer but players are a lot faster and gifted it’s crazy. Michael Jordan didn’t really have any crazy offensive matches. He was an excellent on ball defender but the 3 wasn’t respected in our day man. You can’t compare defenses then to now.
Coach I rather guard a 3 ball than to get hand check elbows going to the hole plausibly back and y’all day they actually called traveling and carrying do u see how many steps guys take now it’s atrocious
@@2123lottocouldn't agree more
@@2123lotto No you wouldn't because on your closeout these players would go straight by you or hit a three in your face. I played college ball and coached. If you think hand checking was difficult to play against you are wrong. Players were still getting their game off. It's called making adjustments.
I agree
@@2123lotto You do know the offensive player could be just as physical right? what wing player today you hand checkin?
I 1000% always compare LeBron to Magic. The Jordan and Bron argument is so lazy. They are so different on many levels. It's ok for there to be multiple Goats. But I think it falls to position ball. MJ is the best 2 LeBron is the best 3. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. 😇
Nobody said Lebron is a pass first player they said hes a pass first player when the game on the line. And if Jordan wouldnt have rings without the triangle,then Lebron wouldn't have rings without the superstars he played with
DUMB take since MJ has no chips without Scottie
Huge lie. All his fans say he's a pass first player and since it's easily debunked you're trying to get out of it
They act like Like ray allen and kyrie didnt save him.
@@blackthanos914LeBron has no chips without a HOFer teammates. What don't ya'll get? Do you really think what LeBron did was hard? Imagine Jordan teaming up with Drexler and Danny Manning, then Hardaway and Vin Baker, then Dirk, KG or Webber. But Pippen 😂
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 Neither does MJ, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russell etc. Bron has 4 without a single HOF coach. DUH 🙄 LOLOLOL CHECKMATE DUMB @$$ 🤣🤣🤣
The thing is, it seems like they're using two different styles of arguments to defend lebron, and dont do the same for the other two. They're giving the " but you have to add context" argument for the areas where lebron falls short, and the switching to the absolute, raw numbers argument when it benefits lebron. Like you cant say "his 4 rings must be looked at in the context of his teammates and lack of system" and then just say "well he has the most points so end of discussion". Do the same for the other two then. You could easily say "kobe or jordan dont have the most points but context" and then add "and they have more rings, end of discussion". I think thats where Rashad and Gil missed each other. Gil jumps from saying "lebron should get extra points for these circumstances" to "lebron is numerically the best in this category, period"-you cant win a discussion when dude is just gonna change the metric/argument to favor who he has decided should win. If we're looking at it both of these ways, lets do it for all three and stack it up.
bron being the best player to play in the nba isn't up to debate, jordan and kobe system players with 5 and 6. bron the system with 8 straight trips to the finals and 4 chips. nuff said
@@peterkoroma7876 when did bron played in the system and got his 8? bruh you trippin? Bron is the system, we cannot possibly know what happens if he plays with a coach that has a system, unless he does next year. These are hypothetical arguments, that's all there is to it.
@@peterkoroma7876 if you think bron never had a system you don’t watch basketball. Bron is the system. Notice how every team he played on ran the exact same plays. Had the exact same play style. That’s not a coincidence.
@@fructose742 read what I said again
@@TheKayFThree read what I said again buddy
McCants said ‘88 MJ vs ‘23 Bron 😂😂😂😂 how tf is that fair?!
I'm surprised they let that slide
right you wanna do that LETS GET 2018 BRON
@@kiggss Jordan was still a better shooter, more skilled, better defender, more creative, better scorer, better dunker, just better. 88-91 Jordan is better than anybody who ever played. Plus he had elite scoring seasons before.
@apeacefulmindx your stupid. Go play 2k. Stopping speaking on basketball. 2023 lebron is like talking about wizards Jordan.
84 to 88 Jordan vs Lebron Entire Career
The Bulls were in the ECF the yr before Phil took over. Jordan had a 2nd yr Pippen and Grant. Took the Champs to six games with no All-Star caliber teammates. Im sure if he had Wade and bosh he would've had more than 4 rings in 21yrs 😂
The better MJ argument is that all the accolades, the 40k points, 10 finals appearances, handpicking teammates, etc... never put him closer to winning a championship than Kobe or Jordan. He has had 21 chances and 4(ish) rings. It boils down to what you feel is better.
Which then activates the next chess piece in this endless debate. The one where people then compare the finals teams they Lebron went against. To be clear I have Jordan as the GOAT but that’s usually how that plays out in here
The NBA is life bro. You can be a great person and be the best in your field but not do exactly what you wanted.
@@joshwilliams2400 yeah that's my argument really. I just think lebron faced better competition.
Nothin wrong with a player gming, lol gm doing it or players doing it, they still need to win....kawhi pg clips, nets harden kd kyrie as examples
You HAVE TO bring up competition my guy. If Mj beat competition like this I’d have him as goat also. The top 3 players during Mj era was Mj, Hakeem, Malone. Now think about that…THE 3RD BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE didn’t shoot effectively beyond the free throw line, no 3 point shot, no crossover and no spin move. Along with 6 expansion teams. I got more js. That’s why a lot of people don’t have him as Goat
Kobe and Jordan were both confined to the system. They had to purposely break the system sometimes in order to win. If they were independent they would be more stat monsters than what they already have done. We can look at the Knicks to see that the system itself doesn’t bring success. It took the two greatest players of all time to put a HEMI in that thing. The system kept the teammates accountable but also made the superstar keep his teammates in the game until it was time to take over.
put one of if not the smartest player in the game in that system with a hof coach, and he more than likely doubles the amount of championships.
“Kobe & Jordan” that’s what they were. Two off the smartest most skilled basketball players ever on the planet and that’s what they did. Jordan could have had 8 rings if he didn’t retire and Kobe could have had 6 if it wasn’t for Boston’s big 4 when he didn’t have another consistent All Star caliber player like himself those last 3 finals appearances. The best players in the world maximized that system even though it hurt their overall stats in the end because they couldn’t play this iso ball we see in today’s game.
@@vincethegreat3066 both two have something in common. all their rings were with phil jackson. no other coach
@@Kidimo_ehh take the system away from both and let Mj leave and team up with Hakeem and the glove and Kobe and Shaq still if not 3 peats get two at least and Kobe at least get one or 2 down the road so idk about that
So imagine how smart lebron is without a system and put him in one he have more than 4 rings
u know the difference? mj play his role and acknowledge the system. lebron is the system, he wants the team to build around him, his wants to be the facilitator, he wants to play the floor general, he wants to build around him. thats how i see it.
Great way to put it. I don't think either way is wrong. I have those 3 in the top but in a different order.
Yes. LeBron even wanted to fire spo! One of the best coaches. LeBron is simply the problem. His fans just sell him as a victim, but he Was the offender everywhere.
How when he left to go join other teams that were already built
@@Kikibrat2 yes don't think its wrong. But if u choose to be the system then of course u gonna live with the consequences
@@bartekinoalready proven to be false
Such an interesting insight. I suspect such systems also help with team chemistry and trust, generally; which, especially bears fruit in the playoffs and in clutch moments.
Crazy how the Jordan’s and Kobe’s praise Bron but the lesser talented players hate on him
They don’t praise that dude….Stop it!
Giving props and praise is two different things.
@@delscott958Kobe definitely praised Bron get out your feelings
@@Wisestomatoe Told to get out my feelings by a dude that calls another man by a pet name. That’s what his wife calls him.
How about that? 😂
@@delscott958 nigga wtf are you talking about