Asking Over 30 NBA Players Who PLAYED Against LeBron and Jordan 'Who is the GOAT?'.
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Video footage and credits:
• Ray Allen On Who's The... Ray Allen - LeBron James Or Michael Jordan? - Guy Hartman-Cocco
• Ray Allen Talks Comeba... Ray Allen w/Dan Patrick | Full Interview | 9/11/18 - Dan Patrick Show
• The 20&20 Podcast #018... The 20&20 Podcast #018 NBA Veteran Scott Williams - The 20 and 20 podcast
• NBA GOAT: Michael Jord... NBA GOAT: Michael Jordan or LeBron James? Larry Hughes jumps in - Fresh 24 With Marc Zumoff
• Wally Szczerbiak on th... Wally Szczerbiak on the Dan Patrick Show Full Interview | 03/23/23
• How NBA Champion Mike ... Mike Miller | Out of Office - Boardroom
• Jason Williams on Lebr... Jason Williams - Flagrant
• Stephen A., Vince Cart... Vince Carter, on LeBron James eclipsing Michael Jordan | First Take | ESPN
• NBA Star Kevin Willis ... Kevin Willis says Lebron would have averaged__in the 90's|B&B Ep 25 - bars and beyond
• KG & Paul Pierce Discu... KG & Paul Pierce Discuss Lebron's Greatness & Explain Why He Passed MJ As The GOAT | KG CERTIFIED - All the Smoke
• NBA Great Dirk Nowitzk... NBA Great Dirk Nowitzki - NBA Action
• Dirk Nowitzki On The L... Dirk Nowitzki On The LeBron James vs Michael Jordan GOAT Debate - Sporting news Australia
• Chris Webber on LeBron... Chris Webber on LeBron James "he is greatest team player of all time" | THE HERD - The Herd with Colin Cowherd
• Chris Webber On LeBron... Chris Webber On LeBron Passing Jordan - News Today
Shaq - • Shaq's Competitive “Be... (34:00) Shaq- Full Send Podcast
Juwan Howard: • Juwan Howard Reacts to... - Juwan Howard - The Wolverine: Michigan Football and Basketball
Jason Kidd • Mavs' Jason Kidd on La... Mavs' Jason Kidd, "He Will Be The G.O.A.T."
• Jason Kidd praises LeB... Jason Kidd praises LeBron James' longevity in the NBA!!
Allen Iverson • Allen Iverson Says LeB... Allen Iverson Goat Debate - HEADLINERS with Rachel Nichols
Grant Hill • Grant Hill On Why LeBr... Grant Hill On Why LeBron James Deserves More Respect From The "Old Heads Who Love Jordan” - JJ Redick
• The NBA GOAT Debate 🐐 ... The NBA GOAT Debate 🐐 Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James | ESPN
Jamal Crawford: • Jamal Crawford Thinks ... Jamal Crawford | 06/02/23 - Dan Patrick Show
• Jamal Crawford Intervi... Jamal Crawford - Jeremy Mills
• Charles Oakley on Mich... Charles Oakley| THE HERD (FULL INTERVIEW)
• Charles Oakley Answers... Charles Oakley - J2: J Squared & • Charles Oakley | Playi... Charles Oakley | EP 37 | KG Certified - All the Smoke
Jerry Stackhouse • Jerry Stackhouse Picks... Jerry Stackhouse - ESPN First Take
• Does Reggie Miller Thi... Reggie Miller | 02/07/22 - Dan Patrick Show
• Turner Sports' Reggie ... Turner Sports' Reggie Miller Discusses LeBron vs MJ as Basketball's G.O.A.T. (4/24/17) - Dan Patrick Show
Ron Artest • Metta World Peace says... Metta World Peace says LeBron James is the hardest player he has ever defended - Bootleg Kev
Brendan Haywood • How Michael Jordan & L... How Michael Jordan & LeBron James Differ As TEAMMATES | Brendan Haywood Breaks The GOATs Down - No Chill Gil - Fubo Sports.
Gary Payton • Gary Payton on why LeB... Gary Payton on why LeBron is better than Durant, King James joining Lakers | NBA | UNDISPUTED
• Area 21: Choose One - ... Area 21: Choose One - MJ, LeBron, Kobe - NBA on TNT
Tracy McGrady • MJ, Kobe, LeBron GOAT ... MJ, Kobe, LeBron GOAT Debate Decoded by Tracy McGrady | Scoop B - Brandon "Scoop B" Robinson
• Tracy McGrady Says LeB... Tracy McGrady Says LeBron James Is Already Arguably The Greatest Player Ever | The Jump
Karl Malone on The Dan Patrick Show 6/4/13 • Gilbert Arenas Breaks ...
Gilbert Arenas Breaks Down Why LeBron James Is OFFICIALLY The GOAT As A Michael Jordan Fan
• Isiah Thomas: I would ... Isiah Thomas: I would pick LeBron James over Michael Jordan | UNDISPUTED
• Al Harrington: 'Lebron... Al Harrington: 'Lebron Is The Greatest Of All-Time' | ALL THE SMOKE
• Jason Terry thinks LeB... Jason Terry thinks LeBron James might retire if he wins the NBA title this year | NBA | UNDISPUTED
• MJ vs LeBron: Who Ya G... MJ vs LeBron: Who Ya Got, Carlos Boozer? | The Dan Patrick Show | 5/9/18
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Imagine Jordan and LeBron both playing simultaneously in their primes and facing each other in the finals. Someone would’ve taken it personally. The End.
can someone take it personally against Larry Bird?
😂Yessir, not even a close competition. MJ all day every day
@@williammalapitan3801Good call, Larry was the real deal as well.
@@TerryT0114It's okay to be wrong, which is good, because you are.
@@Tcrror Not a chance, LeBron would have been missing free throws, trying to pass to someone else to make the big shot (if it was close enough) an playing no defense. While both MJ an Bird would have been killing.
You don't know the old players but you should, it's all out there to educate yourself.
MJ & Bird were killers on the court, straight killers. Something LeBron has never been nor ever will be.
You really need to go watch their film, they were incredible and incredible when it mattered most.
Bird would literally tell the other team exactly what was going to happen, where the pass was coming from, what he was going to do an then he'd do it. An he did that over an over an over.
Someone would say something to MJ that he didn't like an a fire was started an he'd torch them until they knew to never talk to him like that again. That too happened over and over and over.
It's not close, those two were killers, something LeBron has never been. He's extremely talented but doesn't have the mind they did.
It's literally not close.
Just go look up their highlights then watch some full games.
They were truly incredible.
great video, man. I haven't seen a lot of the clips you picked
8:42 6 Finals loses. Quitting. Teaming up with other top 10 players. Yeah. Flawless
do you know how free agency works? if you dont better search, and look at cavs on LBJ first years, no plan to win championship, their front office sucks, their players are jealous to a young star, managed to get Shaq but he was already washed , Lebron want to win but Cavs had other plans.
Young LBJ took that under .400 team to playoffs, if you cant understand that fact then you know nothing about basketball,, you are just for the thrill
@@simplevideosforsimplelife3080Jordan never ran to other superstars or begged for players. He took soft pippen and turned him into the best Robin in the league. Lebron isn't top 10. Mj would average 50 easily today. No defense on mj????????
Great work on your channel brother I really enjoy your content
The problem is, anybody who played against a prime Mike only played against a young Bron. If they played Bron in his prime, they were pups when they played Mike.
Ok so did you not watch the video? What did AI say?
What did reggie miller say, What did Kg say, what did Jason kid say what did Isiah Thomas say what did Karl Malone say @@zoramirez-jv9hj
Ray Allen played against, or with both in their prime. Saved Lebrons Legacy by hitting that 3. Bosh got the tip-out. Lebron wasn’t involved at all besides bricking some 3s in the stretch. To me Ray Allen’s opinion holds the most weight.
@@christopherthomas3343 should rewatch that whole game. Then Lebron literally came back in that fourth quarter by himself and then before iconic Real shot Lebron literally came down the court and hit three threes back to back to back it’s a to team sport he wasn’t saved just a role-player playing his part
This is how I know you are a casual who hates Lebron religiously without even watching his games.
That game 6 in the 2013 Finals that you are talking about was ONLY close because Lebron exploded with 16 points in the fourth, almost outscoring the Spurs BY HIMSELF (Spurs had 20 points in the 4th) and he was the one that hit the three right before Allen's 3 to cut the lead to 3. If Bron didn't perform spectacularly in that 4th quarter and didn't hit that 3 before Allen's 3, Ray could have hit 3 threes in a row and it still would not have mattered.
In conclusion, watch the games and stop regurgitating shitty media takes.
@@christopherthomas3343
I hate these conversations because anyone who played against both didn’t play against Jordan during his prime years. These types of debates makes better sense between Kobe and lebron
U right but Kobe my second favorite player but I got lebron slightly ahead
🎯🎯🎯
Just think about that for a second... They didn't even play Jordan in his prime and they're still picking him...
@@CallmelegendaryTVbasketball facts!
Shaq, Grant Hill, Paul Pierce KG all did they played from 94-98 on, but go off g
Love how they show LeBron dunking on stackhouse while he’s saying he’s going with MJ because they’re both from NC 😂
He said I could do more against lebron ( insert clip of 20yr old lebron dunking on his head) 🤣🤣
Lebron dunking on him doesn’t mean he can’t do more against him than Mike.
Ummm...Mike KILLED Stackhouse for that very same reason! Because they were from Carolina. Stack used to say he was going to be the best 2 guard to come out of NC😂
Can't knock his confidence early Stack was a damn PROBLEM FRFR!
Lebron is amazing but Michael is an icon. MJ is like Pope John Paul II in Europe. You may not believe me, but in Europe, if you ask your grandmother, grandfather or child who Lebron James is, very often they don't know. But when you ask about Jordan, even the old grandma knows who he is. All these conversations about who is the best are a bit pointless. In the current era, Lebron is undoubtedly the best. Michael was the best in his era. but I know one thing, the basketball player who has been my biggest inspiration so far is Michael. Think about it, Michael played his last match 21 years ago and everyone is talking about him. I wonder if in 20 years we will be talking about LeBron like Jordan. We have to wait to answer this question
Ray Allen: Jordan
J Williams : LeBron
Larry Hughes: Jordan
Dirk: Jordan but leaning towards LeBron
Paul Pierce: says Jordan is the goat in a more recent interview (when him and KG discussing new 65 game rule)
Scott Williams: Jordan
Shane Battier: LeBron
Jerry Stackhouse: Jordan
Mike Miller: No answer
Ron Artest: Jordan
Iverson: Jordan
Vince: Jordan
Payton: Jordan
Brendan Haywood: LeBron (didnt exactly say it)
Boozer: LeBron (didnt exactly say it)
Kevin Willis: Jordan
Garnett: LeBron
Webber: Jordan
Isiah Thomas: LeBron
Jason Kidd: LeBron
Wally: Jordan
Gilbert: LeBron
Shaq: says Jordan is the goat in a more recent interview (All about the westcoast)
Jamal Crawford: Jordan
Grant Hill: Jordan
Al Harrington: LeBron
Reggie Miller: Jordan
Charles Oakley: LeBron
Tracy McGrady: eventually says Jordan is his goat
Juwan Howard: LeBron
Karl Malone: LeBron
But there's a ton more clips you left out of players who played against both.
Chauncey Billips: Jordan
Alounzo Morning: Jordan
Steve Nash: Jordan
Eddie House: Jordan
Jalen Rose: Jordan
Stephen Jackson: Jordan
Jamal Mashburn: Jordan
Stephan Marbury: Jordan
LeBron: 13
Jordan: 26
Jerry West: Jordan
Bob Cousy :Jordan
Rodman:Jordan
Stephan Marbury:Jordan
Tony Parker :Jordan
Wade :Jordan
Ewing:Jordan
Tim Legler:Jordan
Dominique Wilkins:Jordan Kawahi:Jordan and so many more.
Jerry West made it clear he is taking Kobe over both of them.
The Karl Malone one is HILARIOUS!!!!
Ask Clyde Drexler lol
@JWilliams Jordan also made everyone better...From Pip' to Grant and everyone else on those team!!! No one would've known about Paxson and Kerr...Longley and others...
All I know from being a 10 year old starting to watch the NBA on my own because to me, what LeBron James is to so many today, to us in Michigan, that was Magic Johnson. The NBA was a BIG MAN'S GAME all my life, until MJ came along. They weren't talking about him in the media as if he was a "King" he wasn't one to "Witness" he was from my memory a very good player, on a terrible Bulls team that was probably going to be disappointed because this was a team game and no 1 guy is going to make the difference and they didn't have a great Big Man. Well, he changed the game, changed minds and left a legacy that 21 years later his name is still arguably at the top of the pile
I mean 1 guy did not make a difference though, they never can. He only started winning in the playoffs with great teammates around him and a great coach.
@@EnViTed1 Jokic won the title without a single All-Star on the team, something that many great players have never accomplished. Jokic achieved all this without the help of the NBA, media and new juice. One player can make the difference. No one dominated like Jordan and that's why 99% of people of all generations consider him the greatest of all time.
Arguably yes. 100% agreed.
MJ was the most important player of all time. The Fandom he created for the game and the passion that the next generation had for ball was all because of him. LeBron can thank MJ for who he had to be. Personally, I take LBJ and I don't think it's close... but I totally understand the people who say it's MJ and he is untouchable. LeBron is basketball to me.
You obviously didn’t know how bad of a team the Bulls were the year prior to Jordan. 1 guy did make a difference as a rookie. First year in the NBA he brought them to the playoffs. He took a team that was somewhere between the current raptors and hornets and brought them to a playoff team as a rookie. The more impressive thing as well is LeBron had Carlos Boozer on his team. You want to talk about having NOBODY on your team, ‘84 Bulls was that definition. Orlando Woolridge was Jordan’s “second” on the team. Jordan led his team on Points, Assists, steals AND total rebounds. Everything ran through MJ. He willed his team into the playoffs.
Jordan was known as “black jesus” he didn’t need to be “king” and ppl would pack out gyms just to go watch Jordan practice😂
It's awesome here former players break it down. Jason Williams talking about how Defenses were actually easier for one on one players back in the day because of rules defender had to stay within arms reach of there player. So there was less help defense.
@17:34 What the younger generation has to realise is that what Kevin Willis is talking about is fact. Michael couldn't get to the rim as freely as Lebron can today, period, but he still averaged well above 30pts even though the majority of the lanes were closed.
He was going to the basket regardless, not just facilitate or sit out on the perimeter and shoot 3's. He wanted you to think that whatever you do, I'm going to overcome that challenge. He wanted to break you down mentally as well as physically, and he did it without fearing the consequences.
Everybody was in awe, including management, coaches, and players alike. He's the most feared man in the NBA to date and could not be dethroned once he became a champion. He was unstoppable, then unbeatable.
... and all in just 13 years.
This is apples and oranges. I'm older, seen both, huge fan of both. It's just different. Also, the argument is emotional which allows for non-representative and biased thinking like finals records. That stat is useless. Why not conference finals stats then? Or first round?
You write "Once he became King", thereby ignoring what happened before. In contrast, a whole slew of people claimed that LeBron could never be the GOAT before he even won his first championship. Talk about being emotional and and premature. Furthermore, it is incorrect. He couldn't stay in the league because of whatever, and he was certainly beatable while playing for the Wizards.
Also, absurd as it may sound, LeBron is still active, and everyone needs to stop the debate. You cannot compare a retiree with an active player, nor can you compare 13 with 20 career years. Average stats will favor the shorter career, but overall stats will favor the longer career. This incommensurability makes the debate pointless.
Together, with Kareem, MJ and LeBron are the three players that can claim the title depending on perspective. Why can't we just enjoy and celebrate their fantastic accomplishments?
Magic did more in 11 years than MJ, 5 in 9 finals run in 11 years. Bron is my goat MJ 2 Kareem 3
@@kevinbuggage9721 I'm good with either three as GOATs. Though, it takes a more complex reasoning to understand LeBron's greatness. Since, it becomes a matter of taste, I like LeBron because I value longevity perhaps a bit more than the other qualities.
@@MrClebophdi cant accept lebron being the goat, never. That 8pts game in 11, the sweep in 07 and dont get me started on that "that cavs team were trash" because they held the spurs average score below 79pts in those 4games sweep, 2 of them being 1 possession margin, lebron chokes consistently for 21 years and counting
@@kevinbuggage9721a loser like lebron could never be the goat. 07 sweep, 2 of those games were 1 possession margin, what lebron did? Averaged 22 in a very inefficient shooting because he got no bag, he cant shoot, what he can only do is bulldoze his way to the rim and relies on his athleticism. After that choking job in 11 against the mavs, he looked for hakeem to teach him basic fundamental footworks because again, he got no bag
Two huge factors everybody's failing to mention in this debate is how much more athletically gifted than anyone in any sport that we have ever seen and also on top of that medical staff and advancements of today. One last thing as a human being what is more gratifying honestly living up to expectations or exceeding expectations.
Gotta work hard either way though. But you're right.
Also the biggest advancements have probably been in shoes. Shoes alone account for most of the increased speeds in running.
I thought this argument was done with. I don't even know how this comparison is valid. GOATS don't come home with bronze medals. GOATS don't lose championships. GOATS don't switch teams to chase a ring, they win with the team they got. GOATS don't brick when an important game is on the line. And last but not least, GOATS don't say they're the GOAT, people say it.
That part
The GOAT conversation ended when Lebron had to join forces with Wade to win rings. I just want to see what happens when his PED use is officially a story
😂😂
Lebron doesn’t have 3 defenders, it’s 3 guys hoping he doesn’t get charged into and get called for not moving out lebrons way to the basket
To compare LBJ to MJ is like comparing the greatest distance Runner to the greatest Sprinter.
Hell of a comparison. Both are the goat at what they do
or a sturdy cab to a premium sportscar
wow that rlly but things into perspective for me
Jordan is better at everything.
@@jonkravetz6968 I never argue with those lacking objectivity. I feel sorry for them because they are lacking what comes natural for many others.
I would have loved to see them played each other.
How Lebron has eliminated Kobe from the conversation is incredible. Being honest and snarky
This whole debate about who is the greatest is fun to watch and read.
Here is an analogy for you, most employers would consider qualities, duties and responsibilities a requisite but they would also consider soft skills so to speak a must as well.
Soft skills as in The intangibles like "Winning", "Clutch", "Defense Stopper", "Taking The Opponents Heart or Playing Mind Games" "Knowing What You're Going To Do And Still Not Being Able to Stop It", "Making The Opponents Coaches and Players Lose Sleep From Game Planning" "A Will To Win" and then you add in the knowledge (K), skill (S), and ability (A).
This guy was a 10 time scoring champion the year and 7 of them were straight. Thats on top of winning 2 x 3Peat championships, 9 time All Defensive Team and 1 Defensive Player of the Year. And on and on... he did this in 13 or 14 years and retired twice. So he took breaks in between and still came back and showed why he was the greatest to EVER lace them up.
Lebron is an outstanding player and his longevity is remarkable and championships really have nothing to do with the overall greatness.or conversation. When you look at the ( body of work) how he did and who he did it with over a whole career, I have to still give the nod to Jordan.
MJ is my goat, but we have to be real...every generation has its own goat.The one with whoom they grew up,they watched,and wanted to be.I understand,and I'm not mad at all.
Your not part of this shit bruh.take a video and said that again and no ever watch that video bcoz we dont care🤣🤣🤣
@@Mcenzie08 well,looks like you do,as soon as you commented.✌️😬
Facts and it’s go MJ KOBE CURRY idgaf 🙅🏾♂️
Not tru..I'm jus say'n
@@SAWLID🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Zeke saying HOF coaches, OK Dean Smith is but Phil was a rookie coach and was not anything until he coached MJ vice versa.
Phil in the HOF
@@powskipowskii304 duh now he is, but was he a HOF coach when he was hired?
His point was about what HOF coaches thought Jordan. Phil came in wth Tex Winters and the triangle fundamental to how they won 6 championships
@@powskipowskii304 Read and understand what is written.
@@ilovemusic3478he won Mj a championship as head coach that what got him in the HOF Mj did have a ring before or after Phil
I'm just glad i was alive to see these players play and dominate
At 5'6, ive got 0 points in the NBA. But in my driveway, I got my own rebound on a missed layup, then missed again.
"Lebrons body of work is flawless" WILD........🤣🤣
Flawless? Only a dummy would call a 4-10 finals record flawless, but not 6-0. Never going to a game 7, never losing 3 games in a row from 1990-1998😂
@@user-xm5du8hu1qthat never losing 3 games in a row stat is wild I’m booking that
@@user-xm5du8hu1q jordan was up against plumbers bro
@user-xm5du8hu1q nobody rides brons nest harder than a die-hard MJ fan. Getting swept in the first round multiple times then dominating vs non dynasties in the finals for a short burst of time isn't as impressive to a smart human. Going 10 times is better than 6. Lebron would be 10-0 if he played against ringless competition like MJ did 😂
@gian-lucbrasseur207 going 10x would be better if you won. No one cares about second place
I love how they took the comments from Paul Pierce making it seem like he’s supporting LeBron as the goat when he said in so many occasions, and so clearly that he is not the goat! Matter fact, KG even said anybody could play 25 years if they only plan 60 to 65% of the games and not even going all out this guy has no competitive fire and him he’s only trying to put up stat statistics
When did lebron only play 60-65% of his games? Name one season.
Every season LeSISSY DOES THIS BRONSEXUAL GO CHECK THE STATS IS CALL LOAD MANAGEMENT AND LeFRAUD INVENTED THIS@@briankeller2733
He literally crowned him the goat in the past 2 years u didn’t see the interview or u have mental issues
@@wordplaygt4465Paul has never said lebum is the goat dude stop the 🧢🤡😂😂😂😂
@@kylonp7311Pierce and Garnett said it on their podcast.
Scott Williams just gave the best analogy wen players cant dream about beating you you're on a whole another level
Gary Payton said it best when referring to Jordan. "We called him Black Jesus for a reason"
At 8:39 ol boy says " Lebrons body of work is flawless," and then glosses over a truly "flawless" 6 for 6...OMG 😂...what dimension do these LeStans live in? 😂🤣😅
The dimension that you don't exist troll boy. That's NBA legends saying LeBron is the best ever.
Yall are wild. Literally sat through a lebron video just to hate on it? Your just giving the dude more views and publicizing it more 🤦♂️💀
@blacklight3363 it wasn't a LeBron James video...but you Stans see the word GOAT and make ridiculous assumptions that it's a LeBron video.😅🤣😂...does the title say LeBron is the GOAT? Did I miss something?
@@ajjamaal646 Career (Totals) LeBron James Michael Jordan
LBJ MJ
Games 1,421 1,072
Points 38,652 34,241
Rebounds 10,667 6,672
Assists 10,420 5,633
Steals 2,186 2,514
Blocks 1,073 893
Turnovers 4,966 2,924
Minutes 54,094 41,011
IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS that MJ can't even hold LeBron's used Towel. And those numbers were before this season began.
LeBron: is a 20x All-Star, 4x MVP, 13x All-NBA 1st Team, 4x All-Star MVP, 4x NBA Finals MVP, 4 Championships with 3 different teams, and 3 rookie or inexperienced coaches. Very few all-star teammates over 21 seasons.. MJ had at least 1 all-star teammate every year from 1993-2003. Jordan wasn't even a 1st pick..he was the 3rd pick behind (Sam Bowie) who was a terrible NBA player but he got drafted above MJ. LeBron is the best we've ever seen at every aspect of basketball, MJ was the highest scorer we've ever seen at 30.1 ppg for his career. But he gave up twice on Chicago. And then became the ALL-TIME WORST GM/TEAM OWNER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA.
I find it wild that this debate is so toxic in the fanbase, while when you hear players talk about it none of them have a single negative thing to say about either Bron or MJ.
But in the larger scheme of things too, why does it matter? All the comparison just kills the ability to enjoy watching great athletes achieve great things
highly agree.. lets be honest tho, a large majority of that hate comes from older generation/MJ fans in general discrediting Bron completely.. "queen James" "fake ring" "6>4" " "crybaby" "flopper" etc etc
I honestly believe the disconnect is bigger than basketball. It's like flat earthers vs globe believers. 1 side questions everything and does in depth out of the box research to make their point while the other just goes with the media and easy narratives
@@TreeEl-gp2tx did you just compare MJ fans to flat earthers?
blame the old head jordan fans
MJ fans would be parallel to the globe believers in this analogy..@@blacklight3363
First thing, we need to have a checklist of what makes you a 🐐
That dude Kevin Willis be capping big time. 19ppg😂😂 that’s straight up lies
for real. Hahahahaha. Karl Malone was averaging 27-31 in his prime but LeBron just gonna get 19.. ok Kevin
@@Boss3Nate as in Dude be smoking cracks
@@egbowonjohn7448 lol that's most Jordan supporters.
@@Ghost-rb6cw the way they think is too low
Yeah Kevin who's clowned himself on that one
The REAL debate is how the hell did this really become a debate??? Most laughable debate ever created.
Yeah everyone laughing at u
Bron sucks compared to Jordan
@@eugenebrown6477Don't cry poor baby😥
@@northaldine5116 right hood response
💯
Isiah admit that LeBron watched Mike...he knew exactly how he wanted to play but realized he could never Be Like Mike
5:55 "no one goes home and dreams about lebron beating them."
Tell that to indiana and toronto scott.
Oohh i like Gary Payton saying, if he has the killer instinct like Mj everytime he play there is no arguement..well Kobe has the mentality too..Isaiah Thomas comment are funny, we talking about player not a coach sir, making play is the coach role thats why we have great coaches..i feel like bitterness..lol
That what he is saying genius. Mj Kobe Shaq all had great coaches to teach them and Lebron came out high-school dropping 20ppg on grown men
Hold up, did j will really try to say that Lebron gets triple team more than Jordan?tf
Hilarious.
Which is true. The illegal defense rule make it harder for teams the bring help defense during MJ's era
@@1vaultdwellerHand checking made 1v1 defence more effective back then though now all they gotta do is run in to the defender and they’re going to the line
@@OhYummmmp But they can form a Giannis wall now. Which was prohibited in MJ's era, duh
Help defense was non-existent or too late due to illegal defense rule. MJ fanbase never wanna talk about that lmao
nope, hes talkin about how in the 80’s/90’s Mike wasnt playin against a zone. He was sble to see the double coming and go the other way while the area is open bc offball defenders are not shading/sagging. He primarily played against 1 on 1. Now guys can shrink 1 side of the court and force the ball to move around
23:16 J-Kidd looks like JoKoy LOL
Artest just said exactly what I been always saying.
Everyone knew Jordan was getting the ball, especially in the 4th/crunch time.
His team knew it. Opponents knew it. The crowd knew it. The millions of fans and haters like me (lol, Knicks fan, hate jordan) all knew it.
Everyone KNEW.
And no one could stop him.
And hitting 50% of the "clutch shot" stats? Which was basically hks career FG% anyway, so in a way the guy didn't even feel pressure of the clutch?
See that's why I hate how casually people throw around the word GOAT.
GOAT means, and forgive me for using this silly example the ESPN pundits themselves have said, but it means the ONE MAN u want to put the ball in his hands to save your LIFE. "The aliens come down and u need to save humanity in a bball game?,"
Well u JUST CAN'T say anyone but Jordan, except maybe Bird.
That's it.
And THAT is what GOAT means. GREATESTTTT...
U wanna understand GOAT?
I'm not even a hockey guy,,but go look at Gretzky, and EVERYONE ELSE.
Thats all ill say.
THAT is what great means, and it's not even about it the rest of the hockey players ain't as good as other sports' GOAT candidates. It's just about the level of what GOAT iS above all else
I can never take a Jordan debate seriously with Isaiah Thomas lol
Your a causal Zeke is one of the best point guards ever and he was small but fearless. And he’s a back to back champion
@@antoinebutler9904 what that has to do with my comment?
Isiah is very bitter..he's very jealous as well..he's too up and down for me..
@@LOGICAL-JAY same here he irritates the shit out of me
Isiah and bird destroyed jordan😅
its not just 6 champions, its 6 with no losses, 6 and 0, no one before and no one after, 3 in row twice!
...and after he won his 1st championship, he was considered pretty much unanimously as the greatest basketball player ever, the greatest to play any sport. After his 1st! Then he got better and better and better. MJ is better at basketball than anyone is at anything, ever!
Yeah, maybe because Jordan's competitions in the Finals were downright awful, and every "Star" he faced in the finals was a historical choker.
Finals opponents' net efficiency rating in the postseason (Jordan):
1992 Trailblazers +2.9
1997 Jazz +2.7
1996 Supersonics +2.7
1993 Suns +1.7
1998 Jazz +1.6
1991 Lakers +1.0
Finals opponents' net efficiency rating in the postseason (Lebron):
2017 Warriors +13.6
2014 Spurs +11.6
2015 Warriors +9
2013 Spurs +7
2011 Mavericks +6.7
2016 Warriors +6.3
2007 Spurs +5.3
2012 Thunder +4.6
Jordan was also greatly favored in each of his Finals appearances by a wide margin (Vegas odds).
Lebron was only favored in 4 of his Finals appearances (Vegas odds).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MJ on Bulls in 1993 - 57 wins (Finals)
Bulls without MJ in 1994 - 55 wins (One controversial call from Conference Finals)
Lebron on Cavs in 2010 - 61 wins (ECSF)
Cavs without Lebron in 2011 - 19 wins (2nd worst team in the league by 2 wins)
Lebron on Heat in 2014 - 54 wins (Finals)
Heat without Lebron in 2015 - 37 wins (Didn't make playoffs)
Lebron on Cavs in 2018 - 50 wins (Finals)
Cavs without Lebron in 2019 - 19 wins (2nd worst team in the league by 2 wins again)
MJ's Bulls had 2 fewer losses without him while all of Lebron's teams that lost him became MUCH MUCH worse. If he had 2-4 All-Stars surely the teams can't be that bad after he leaves them. Cavs in 2011 still had 1x All-Star Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, and ADDED Baron Davis while losing Lebron and 34-year-old Ilgauskus. Heat in 2015 still had Wade and Bosh, Cavs in 2019 just lost Lebron.
See the difference between when Lebron leaves a team and when MJ leaves a team? Lebron had to carry historically bad teams for 80% of his career and MJ was on a great team in the 90s that made the ECSF without him and was only 1 bad call from the ECF.
Another thing, MJ's era was so historically weak (2 expansion drafts, 6 new teams) that Hakeem became the FIRST PERSON IN NBA HISTORY to win a championship in 1994 WITHOUT another All-Star. This is UNHEARD of in other eras.
Lebron, on the other hand, played in possibly the most talented era of all time (Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, KD, Steph, Giannis, Harden, Kawhi, etc.).
This was most definitely not true. There was absolutely no one (except maybe the biggest Jordan fans) that vaulted him over Bird/Magic/Russell/Kareem after his 1st ring. The real rumblings actually started after his 2nd ring and the Dream team formation in 1992. By the end of his 1st 3 peat, he was looked at pretty unanimously as the GOAT. @@23nites
Just like Walter Payton said when you do something good you tell everyone when you do something great everyone tells you” Michael has never said he is greatest, and that’s why he is, he doesn’t care what anyone thinks he just played ball at a high level then retired(x2) I love Lebron but I’ve watch both of them, and I’m just like who sells the most shoes, who is the most talked about, who won 6 championships no losses, who did we all want to be growing up, what other nba player have you waited outside for hours or days just for some shoes, not Lebron, your honor my case is closed .
@@Max-ys3xgnot to mention the coaching factor. Lebron has never had a ball of fame coach besides Spoelstra. He makes coaches look better they never wins another ring afterwards. Ty Lue has a chance this year. Jordan’s and Kobe never won anything without the greatest coach of all time!!!
Goat debates never ends...
Is the game played to see how many points you get or to see if you can win the chip?
I never seen Jordan choke in the finals 💯
Yeah, maybe because Jordan's competitions in the Finals were downright awful, and every "Star" he faced in the finals was a historical choker.
Finals opponents' net efficiency rating in the postseason (Jordan):
1992 Trailblazers +2.9
1997 Jazz +2.7
1996 Supersonics +2.7
1993 Suns +1.7
1998 Jazz +1.6
1991 Lakers +1.0
Finals opponents' net efficiency rating in the postseason (Lebron):
2017 Warriors +13.6
2014 Spurs +11.6
2015 Warriors +9
2013 Spurs +7
2011 Mavericks +6.7
2016 Warriors +6.3
2007 Spurs +5.3
2012 Thunder +4.6
Jordan was also greatly favored in each of his Finals appearances by a wide margin (Vegas odds).
Lebron was only favored in 3 of his Finals appearances (Vegas odds).
@@Max-ys3xg lol it's funny you say that because Prime Karl Malone would have bullied the heck out of both KD and Draymond and John Stockton would have ran circles around Steph and Klay on offence and put either of them on lock on defense. The same thing with Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton. The ONLY team that would be able to go toe to toe with the 90's teams were the Spurs due to their fundamentals.
Instead of going by "advanced analytics 🤓" actually watch each game in each series carefully and you'll see those Bulls actually EARNED their wins each time.
@@willn8664ur high as hell 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@lifendrive1796 "ur" 🤣 Oh the irony.
Just because I have Lebron as my GOAT does not mean I never watched basketball in the 80s or 90s. I grew up in the 80s, caught the latter half of Magic's career (one of my favorite players of all time) with my dad, and watched almost every Bulls/Jazz playoff game in the 90s since the Jazz were my dad's team. Malone was an all-time playoff choker and Stockton could not dribble or drive consistently to the basket with his left hand (watch the 87 and 88 WCSF vs the Lakers).
Gary Payton had back-to-back 13-point games in the Finals and Shawn Kemp's averages noticeably also dropped from his regular season averages. I will give Shawn Kemp a pass though since Rodman and Luc Longley were playing absolutely lockdown defense on him that series and he still played decently well.
In the 91 finals, Worthy was injured in both games 4 and 5 and Magic was already diagnosed with HIV.
The 1997 finals ended in Game 6 after a VERY CONTROVERSIAL no-goaltending call on Scottie Pippen despite him shaking the rim on the last shot and causing it to miss.
The 1998 finals had even more controversy due to a 5 point swing in game 6 in 98 by counting a Ron Harper jumper that was a shot clock violation, and taking away a Howard Eisley 3 that was not.
In conclusion, I did watch A LOT of 90s basketball with my dad but the difference is, I can put aside my bias and appreciate greatness on the court. The fact that athletes get better as time passes is a scientific fact and the way Lebron has dominated the MOST talented era in the NBA for as long as he has will always be the difference in my books.@664
Ray played against prime mj who won 96 97 and 98 so that stops what last comment said and he played bron in his best years so wats ya point homie
Hey williams 3:00, ask Steve Kerr or John Paxson if Michael passes the ball
Now though we got someone saying the King is on that Balco New juice that could be the key to his longevity and still playing at a high level. Cause thats what juice does helps u recover faster it gives u more strength and power and Quickness . Mike averaged 25 in Washington with ped
Jason Williams forgot that LeBrick's career field goal percentage from 3 feet or beyond from the rim is a dismal 36% average and the field goal percentage drops to 20% during clutch time.
Yea those are fake stats tf 😂
@@vilez407... No they aren't. Don't get upset because he has weaknesses no greatest ever candidate should have at this point in his career.
MJ has missed a lot of shots too my guy😂 that argument is void. If u wanna go that route u gotta acknowledge the fact he’s shooting better now. Lebron also took more shots/3s. Lebron had to carry way more load than MJ throughout his career
Yet the FG% is over 50%, and TS% is almost 60%
Lets for one second imagine if jordan would've been 6'8 260 that you get called for a foul simply touching someone and LeBron 6'6 190 getting hacked every play. Just consider it think for one second if they could swap shoe. Would there be any doubt who is the goat?
That's a good angle 👌
Lebron shot less free throws than every superstar ever
They both would adapt. If you disagree you're a hater and favor one or the other.
Everything would be different.
@@gian-lucbrasseur207it's not about adapting, just swap each other's physical attributes and keep their own style of play. Jordan was a better shooter, defender, passer (when he wanted to), ball handler, etc. Basketball is a game of Skills. Picture a 6'9 260lb MJ 🤯.
@@cooleyhigh3405 I would say physical attributes is a big factor in style of play. If we swap the bodies of AI and Shaq then one of them will be a bulldozer and the other will be a six foot man who can't shoot.
tracy said it right each era is different they both the goat
I'm laughing at this 😂😂😂😂 anything too your king props 😂😂😂😂 tell him get some accolades.
As a spectator who's seen Mike since he was drafted and now witnessed Lebron...its Mike, he was so dominant against already accomplished players. I think going to play for Dean Smith and going against Len Bias really matured Mike and readied him for the nba...
its always oldhead meatriding mike
Man Michael Jordan played 82 games at the age of 40.. 37 minutes a game LeBron on pace to play to play 70 maybe this year
The game is way faster now with more possessions more running, all this load managements is coming from analytics and from the front office wanting to protect their products that are earning way more than back in Jordans era.
Michael retired twice before his 40th birthday and has way less total minutes? Also the pace is much higher today which means more running than back then; where they would almost always outplay the shotclock.
he was on steroids
and dont forget the talent way better now days thats a huge difference yall dont like talking bout all yall do is revert to defense like they was always playing defense they did the same 💩 invthe 90’s not playing defense yall just deluisonal about nostalgia lebron his simply a better overall player feel how u wanna feel
@@SoCalOnTheBeatjumping higher and being faster doesn’t necessarily mean you will be good at basketball. Two of the best players in the league right now Jokic and Luca are not really athletic. How do you explain that? Also do you know who the only player in nba history to win regular season mvp, finals mvp, led the league in scoring in the regular season and playoffs, won the chip and was first team all defense is? There goes your Lebron argument.
They should have asked players that played in the league from about ‘95 to 2010 for an accurate analysis
Man I fuck with kg he always keep it a buck and he funny af 😂😂😂😂😂
Bro Jordan stood with bulls 13 yrs and never gave up team , faith. Bron has been to 3 different teams looking for a chip. If he woul of stayed with the Cavs the whole time, he would of had at least 3 chips from the Cavs
If he stayed with the Cavs he would have no titles by year 10
So why
Boston had A Big 3
lol..MJ gave up in 93 and he gave up after 98 and then jump to the wizards and didnt do nothing..what are you smoking? lol.. Bron jumped teams and carried all of them and won FMVP on all of them as well hahaha
Yap facts
@@frankhadleyfdash810 Boston had a Big 3 that The Lakers were able to beat the second time with just Kobe and Pau carrying the team.
Two three peats ? Six finals NO LOSSES? Mike in this era would give you 35-40 a gm you all forget how intelligent he was. I'm a Jordan fan that appreciates Lebron to me they're both great in their respective generations
MJ played at 40! Avg 21.2 with the Wizards while getting his knee drained before every game, and after coming back from a 3 year absence. If lebron retired for 3 years came back and had to get his knee drained before every game then we could talk, and in a more physical era the early 2000s😮
They just was allowed to get away with fouls only way the bum player could offset great offense
@@eugenebrown6477 Whatever. It's easier to score now then it's ever been. The ratings say the fans don't like it. Well grown folks don't like it. But these soft kids nowadays love it. "Players today are more skilled" it's easier to look more skilled with no defense being played
@@user-xm5du8hu1q yeah but the skill level so high that defense back then don’t stand a chance
@@eugenebrown6477 lol the offense ain't much different its so crazy to me seeing dumb comments like this, there are more offensive threats now but not better offense and the rule changes allow for it and if these players couldn't travel like they do now with 4 and 5 steps and the stupid step thru that is now legal and taking double stepbacks they wouldn't be able to do alot of the things they get away with now...if u are truly a basketball player and know basketball u would see that but u guys follow a narrative that is beyond untrue I could pick five from the 90s and I would guarantee that they would dominate any 5 from today
@@MakaveliCVW yeah once I seen it’s not more offense I didn’t read the rest can only imagine
Yes but there was also centers in the paint back in the day and there was no 3 second rule
Seen MJ vs Mavs mid 90's in Dallas it was crazy
Mj, Kobe, Lebron
Facts
MJ Jabbar Duncan Magic Kobe and that guy who jumpships
kobe aint top 3
Anyone who puts Kobe top 3 is a Kobetard and can be safely disregarded. At least the players who put Kobe top 3 were his homies.
@@Kamylamy guy has 5 rings in 1 team FOH
When they talk about mj, make me feel like mj never loose a game and never miss a shot...
When it mattered most he didn’t 🤫 I Watched both careers MJ WAAAAY PAST LEBUMB
@@killerman93090-6 against Larry bird 1-9 in the playoffs without Scottie and Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson Made MJ the winner he was. He was a glorified stat padder
He didn't!!! ⚜
He didn't!!! ⚜
@Tim…
No that’s what you turn it into so you can complain about not being able to critique him enough legitimately. That’s female garbage.
Jordan made the NBA a worldwide phenomenon. So, put it this way Jordan is to the NBA what Babe Ruth is to MLB is what Ali is to boxing what Gretzky is to NHL and Pele is to soccer. They all made their sport what it is today and people who never saw them play or fight will alway know what they did and who they are.
LeBron " i was supposed to take the ball out its no way im taking the ball out unless i can shoot over the back board and it goes in" 🤣🤣🤣
LeBRON never had to play angry, be had to play smarter than everyone because he was hated. MJ and Kobe just came in and played angry due to their draft positions. What LeBRON had to endure from the league, journalist, commentators, writers, former players, playing players and even his teammates was unheard of... he was only 18. It was like being at a slave auction. You have to please your buyers from day one. Look at him now. You tell me he isn't the greatest player ever then Trump is the greatest CEO ever.
Preach bro!
I can't take anyone serious who:
A. makes a comment about GOAT stats in Basketball, but the audacity to insert Donald Trump's name in the same commen!
A. Has the audacity to put Lebron in the GOAT debate when we all know Lebron is better than MJ at one thing and one thing only...
F.L.O.P.P.I.N.G.!!!!!!
@@itzanopinion SO LeBRON isn't the REAL SCORING KING? SO, LeBRON DID NOT OUT PERFORM EVERY PLAYER IN A FINALS SERIES ON BOTH TEAMS? SO LeBRON is not the PO SCORING KING, STEALS LEADER AND WINS LEADER? Jordan has 9 Scoring titles right? He leads the league in most shots taken 7 years. I do believe if any nut shot the ball the most they would win it eventually.
6 vs 4 after 21 years. Let's stop it.
@cashmerej9665 only cause he played longer that's the only reason mj scored 30,000 points quicker than lebron in a Era where people still played defense
MJ is the goat period
Peak vs. Longevity
True that, that's so true...
"Lebrons body of work is flawless" how anyone says that with a straight face is beyond me. Even the most diehard jordan fans wouldnt say that about MJ. BY FAR the most annoying thing about Lebron fans is that they will say ANYTHING to propagandize this team hopping whiner.
Theyre fangirls, not fans.
Well MJ fans act like him quitting and whining wasn’t a big deal yet when Lebron has more points than bird and Magic combined only rings matter😂 even tho MJ had the greatest coach ever, rebounder and defender ever
Dude who said that is Kevin Durants agent
@Ooooooopsy accumulative stat doesn't mean shit. Is 15 ppg better on each game or 30 ppg? A 15 ppg can reach those so called points as long as they play longer. Do you understand the logic of that?
@@algladyou That’s the dumbest logic i’ve ever heard
Luv them both. As far as I’m concerned, they both are in the same GOAT pedestal 👑🏀
I don't think you know what the word "greatest" means.
@@DallasG83 i don’t think you know that greatness goes beyond just one person!
@nccourtney6335 That makes no sense. Of course, more than one person can be great but only one can be the greatest.
@@DallasG83 ok than mine is still the king! You keep yours and ill keep mine! Please don’t reply anymore…I
@@nccourtney6335 Don't post a comment if you don't want replies.
Ask this quesstion again after 5 years and ask those new players lets see what will be the update
What's the ultimate goal of playing in the NBA? Is it stats or chips?
Drawing up a play to take a shot that could win the game if you make it or you're going to overtime, is no where near the same as drawing up a play to take a shot that could win the game or you lose if you miss.
Facts.
dirk in an interview with dwade says jordan, paul pierce says jordan "my goat played 82, 18, 82 81 82"
and all of these are in 2024
is great that Lebron can play for that long , but am sorry he will never be MJ .....
Jordan,Lebron,Kobe,Magic,Duncan is the best starting five for me
Im giving it to Bron due,to the fact that Bron came from straight out of High School with a lot of load up on him and he lived up to it ,and still is playing today .40,000 points ,that s hard as hell.
In the end, in sports, it all comes down to CHAMPIONSHIPS! MJ = 6 Finals appearances, 6 Championships. Lebron = 10 Finals appearances, ONLY 4 Championships! Imagine Magic and Bird in today's NBA!!!!!
You missing 8 more years
Robert Horry got more rings than Jordan. That don't make hm better meat head. Takes a goat type player to win a ring with every team he played for . Quit drinking the kool-aid
@@jamesbrown1718 I was trying NOT to rub it in too hard. Some of these youngsters just couldn't handle it!!!
@@dacryptkeeper6836 So once again Bill Russell is the GOAT and Robert Horry is better than MJ cause 7-0? Of course rings are important, but they are not the be all and end all in team sports. You can be the best ever in the world at the worst team for 20 years and you won't win a thing.
@@EnViTed1 You have your opinion, and I have mine! NOTHING you say will convert me to LeBron being the GOAT!!!!!
BTW, Bill Russell won his first ring in a league of 8 teams, and his final ring in a league of 14 teams! Just like Otto Graham won the majority of his rings in the AAFL, where there were only 8 teams (that's football, in case you don't know!)
Phil doesn’t go to the HOF without MJ but MJ DEFINITELY GOES to the HOF without Phil Jackson
So Phil didn’t win 1 as a player and 3 more without Mike. You sound dumb
Not true 😂😂😂he literally won 3 more without Jordan...with Kobe and Shaq...he definitely goes without Jordan. Y'all hating and don't know what you're saying. This is a prime example of why hate is ignorance 😂
@@CoreunHusband
Actually won 5 with Kobe during 2000-2010
subbed and liked
Career averages please
So if you were an employer of a business. You have your two best employees. One shows up most of the the time and the other sometimes. Who is getting the management position? The one that shows up almost all the time. 😅😅
Lebron has to catch up to Kobe before even mentioning Jordan.
LMAO even you dont believe that fam
🖐💍@@chxzen
Facts
He passed Kobe. But he’s below Jordan.
Bro really said kobe over lebron lmao Kobe ain't even in the GOAT convo
Artest has played against prime Kobe and LeBron and old man MJ and he said MJ was the most difficult to guard. That's saying something.
cmmon allen you’re one of lebron most block’s team roaster
And it's crazy that Ray Allen say this because he was drafted in 1996 Jordan retired in 1998 So he never played against a prime Michael Jordan so he's saying the old MJ was better LBJ and his prime
You do know that thru those years the last one they went 72 -10. So I'll say that's the Best version of MJ by idk I'm only 41 going on 42 what do I know 😂
Not to mention Ray Allen won chips with Lebron, and literally saved Lebron's career with the most important shot... of Lebron's career lol. Imagine if Ray was 2 inches off, and that Heatles team went 1-3
Allen faced MJ on both Milwaukee and Seattle
My top 15 All Time list and I don’t care if you like it
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Lebron
6. Magic
7. Steph Curry
8. Tim Duncan
9. Bill Russell
10. Wilt
11. Shaq
12. Jokic
13. Olajuwon
14. Bird
15. Jerry West
Honorable Mention:
Dr J, Tiny Archibald, James Worthy, Iverson, Dirk, Pete Marravich, Stockton, Isaiah, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Garnette
List of goated players I love and still my fave:
Luka, Gary Payton, Dennis Rodman, Jason Williams, Tracy McGrady, Scotty Pippen, Karl Malone, Jason Kidd, Shawn Kemp, Ja Morant, Giannis Antetokoumpo, Stephon Marbury, DWade, Manu Ginobili, Ray Allen, Kevin McHale, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Drazen Petrovich, Jamal Murray, Dame Lillard, Nash, Big Ben Wallace, Kawhi Leonard…
The bulls were superteam when guard play wasnt at the level it is now. Jordan and Pippen was like Kobe and LeBron ever being teammates
Not, the Bulls drafted both Micheal and Scottie. Plus Pippen was garbage his first few years. Try again buddy.
@@user-mk6oh8qo2s so was Kobe. And because they were drafted doesn't change the argument buddy. Kobe and LBJ on same team is equivalent.
This is one of the dumbest takes I've ever read on this..I could pull up numbers that has Anthony Davis over Scottie Pippen..Scottie Pippens rookie season he averaged 7.9pts 3.8 Rebounds 46%FG 57%FT he didn't start getting good until his 4th season where he averaged 16.6ppg In MJ's rookie season he averaged 28.2 ppg he led the Bulls in points, rebounds, assists, steals and was 2nd in blocks.. Anthony Davis has had 42 40+point games in his 12-year career and has had 5 seasons where he averaged 25+PPG Scottie Pippen's career high is 22ppg and scored 40+ only 5 times in his 17-year career.. on the flipside Lebron has had 75 games where he scored 40+ in his 21-year career.. MJ had 173 games where he scored 40+ in his 15 year career
Actually yes, I agree, Lebron would definitelly be Robin to Kobe's Batman much like MJ to Pippen
@@RickyMoss it's not dumb in an era dominated by clogging the lane. Pippen was more athletic than credited and had elite on ball defense, long, better on ball defense than LBJ. Pippen good passer LBJ Elite. They still went to playoffs without Mike with Pippen. The game different now in favor of offense and spacing floor. Respect the 3. Dirk Nowitski #6-8 scoring all time. Skill level for bigs and moreso guards and the way coaches and teams want to play. The game has evolved went more offensive just like football. More fast paced and possessions. Mike and Pippen was like Kobe and Lebron on same team and they had Rodman grabbing all the boards. LBJ needs a pure scorer at this point. Greatest Floor General, All around player Of All time.
Jason Williams made great point also Paul pierce
My Top Five 1 Jordan 2 Kareem 3 Kobe 4 LeBron 5 Magic/Shaq
that’s 6
I love Shaq, LSU and all, but he under performed and wasn't a hard worker. He ate himself out of LA making Kobe force the Lakers to choose between the 2 of them. History tells us who LA chose. ⚜
I never heard anyone play to get stats. When you play sports you play to win the game. Thats the ultimate goal in every sport.
You play to win the game!
So why keep stats if they mean nothing
Wtf are you talking about..
The thing is, Lebron DID play to win the game. He created MULTIPLE stacked teams, in an easy conference to do such a a thing. He just failed multiple, multiple times, including the biggest choke ever by (arguably) the best player in the league in the 2011 finals.. for an entire series.
@BalloonFight yall keep saying multiple stacked teams name one outside of the big 3 with Miami which he didn't create that team either
@@spiceedre8017 What? The Cavs on the second go around, their third best player, again like the Heatles with Bosh, was a 20 point 10 rebound player in KLove in a conference where the literal next best team were the Demar DeRozan Raptors lmao. You don't think that team was built to make the easiest road to the finals possible.. just like the Heat was? There was no competition for it to be even CLOSE in the East
I don't know... I think people don't understand how annoying triangle offfense is when the defense is not really switch fast and covering for exposed stuff and the defense is very static and man to man. it's basically having a solid varsity team vs a pick up team. at least that's how I see it. now people would bother you with switches and covers by the zone defense and so on... even if it's not physical you have a very small window to shoot and you can't high post for long or post inside the arc as guard for long. your best bet is cut through every where and shoot or mixed it up with middies and slashing. that's jordan's game but again the defense then is not as advance now just physical.
Man ball handle was crazy
LeFlopper is great in an era of no-defense 3-pt shooting with wide open lanes to the basket. Jordan played in a defensive era with Detroits Bad Boys and Hall of Fame Centers defending the paint. Jordan played award winning defense. So did Kobe. LeBron floats to superteams and still has trouble winning championships. It’s MJ.
It's comical that you didn't have a clue that LeBron or ?LeFlopper? is a 13x ALL NBA Defensive player. MJ wasn't but a 9x. LeBron's stats destroyed MJ's, except in PPG, steals, and less Turnovers. Awards are handed out by voters..the voters gave MJ extra awards out of fear he'd quit basketball again. LeBron has been an All-star in 20 out of 21 seasons. MJ was great to watch in the 1990s. But since 2003 MJ knew his legacy was dropping to LeBron, Kobe, and other stars.
@@Skillz_251No! Lebron is a 5 time first defensive team and 13 time nba first team! Jordan is the 9 time first defensive team and 1 time defensive player of the year. As Lebron had no defensive player of the year awards!
@@bradforddolo1 not one time did I say that LBJ won DPOY??? He's a 13 time All-NBA defense 1st,2nd, or 3rd team combined. Not so sure where you thought you read that I wrote that.
The Bulls were the original super team.. MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Harper.. MJ couldn't win shit before Pippen and Grant got there. MJ lost every year his first 6-7 years. He averaged 37ppg on a team that featured last year veteran George Gervin, and nothing but 3rd tier bench warmers. That's not GOAT shit.. that desperate to score points in hopes of winning. None of these commenters understand organizational basketball. MJ needed a multitude of stars to win his championships. Then he quit twice!!! Once to dodge a gambling suspension!!! GOATS don't bet on the league. You YT clip stans have no clue!!
@@Skillz_251If we find anything comical, it’s that you don’t know the facts about your own player. LeBron was only on All-Defensive team6 times. The 13 you are referring to is how many times he was on the All-NBA Team. For reference, Michael was on All-Defensive team 9 times and Kobe 12 times, a record for guards. Michael also did that in 5+ fewer years of play than LeBron.
Now, keep in mind - Jordan is 1st all time in important advanced stats - PER, win shares, box + - AND VORP per 48, both in the regular season and playoffs. That's insane, especially considering it was before the stats boom where players as crummy as Westbrook could average 30 point triple doubles for 3 years straight. Then you consider that Jordan and Lebron are a hall of fame career apart in achievements, and that's despite Jordan playing for far less years - Jordan has 34 trophies to Lebron's 17. 6 championships (Lebron 4, including 1 where Ray Allen saved his butt or it'd be 2011 all over again, plus a choked 2011 championship), 5 MVP's (LeBron 4), 10 scoring titles (Lebron 1), 9 time 1st defense (Lebron 5), Defensive Player of the Year in a STACKED era of defensive centers (Lebron 0)..... Jordan single handedly has 7 of the top 10 playoff series scoring averages of all time and 19 of the top 100 single best played games (game scores), meaning 1 out of 5 is him. This is simply not close.
KEEP IT MIND JORDAN NEVER LED NBA IN FG% WILT DID 12X ALSO 12X IN RPG MPG BPG LIKEWISE 7X IN PPG. U JUST PROVED U R DERANGED
@@PIP...33 So what? Deandre Jordan led the league in field goal percentage. Are you going to tell me he's some goat scorer? None of the GOATs led in field goal percentage. You're cherry picking. And to be efficient at high volume is insane.
@@PIP...33 Your cherry pick is Jordan didn't lead in field goal percentage. Mine is that Wilt never won 6 championships in an era with 24 teams, and Jordan has a higher points per game than Wilt even though Wilt played in an era with 33% more possessions!
@@ShaShaSha534 yeah and jordan never won 1 game vs Bird. U just proved Brd is 500x better than jordan cause he swept him 1 on 1 every time
@@ShaShaSha534 Deandre led NBA in dunks Wilt did on fadeaways. U see how deranged u r
Honestly...it's not JUST MJ's records in the finals...it is also his ACCOMPLISHMENTS on the court!
Led the league in scoring 10X (7 straight)...is mind blowing! Led the league in STEALS 3X is just NASTY!
Won DPOTY in just like his 4th year...(88')..and between him and Lebron, he's the only one who scored over 3K points in a season! The best year Lebron had, he only scored 2400+ points!
This argument is on point. "10 x scoring champion and 7 of them straight".
Respect to Gil thank you
If Lebrun makes his team mates better, why do he needs 2 to 4 all stars just to win?🤔
Exactly. He requires all-star level talent around him. And who actually developed into an all-star or HoFer due to LeBron? Most of the future HoFers thar were LeBron's teammates were faces of their teams prior to joining LeBron.
The argument for LeBron is an incredible reach and isn't based on anything factual because his game isn't flawless, and if he did make his teammates better then they would be stronger when he leaves them.. the fact is that he made his teammates depend on him and nothing else.
Lebron leaves his team, his team becomes a lottery team. Did he start going to a superteam before Boston started doing their thing? No. He wasn't the first one to form a super team
MJ leaves his team, they get to the playoffs.
Lebron needed Allstars to beat the best team of all time. Y’all forget that Jordan had the best team of all time record wise until curry’s warriors. Where lebron beat them
You’re so off here. Every team in the NBA has 2 guys that are all-stars or close. The teams Jordan was playing had 1 star & and maybe a mid second star. Really just a bunch of guys. And Jordan always had 2 Allstars when he won. Grant and pippen, pippen and Rodman . Flawed argument on you
@@2la23 armstrong, grant and pippen came as rookies became good to great players playing alongside Jordan.
Can you name a player who became an all star/all nba/all def playing with Lebrun? A player who came in as a rookie.
Never a 3-peat with all of that talent surrounding him.. MJ and Kobe are next level the question should be who is better Steph or Lebron?
This agenda that you are pushing where Lebron has SO MUCH help is absolutely laughable.
First 7 years with the Cavs:
Best players Big Z and Mo Williams.
4 years with Heat:
Wade was great in 2011, good in 2012, and bad after those 2 years. For reference, he avged only 15/5 in the playoffs on 45% FG in 2013.
Bosh was good for 1 year (2011), and was terrible after that. He only played 14/23 playoff games in 2012, where he avged 14/7. In 2013, he pretty much fell off completely and only put up 12/7 on 45% FG in the playoffs.
4 Years with Cavs:
Ran into Warriors Dynasty first 2 years, then KD Warriors next 2 years.
Kyrie was only great in 2016/2017 playoffs and Love put up similar stats to Bosh in 2012.
At best, Lebron has had All-time teams in only 4 years of his 21 year career. (2011 and 2012 Heatles + 2016 and 2017 Cavs).
Not even close it's lebron 😂😂😂
steph 1000%
@@sm-mi8cwin your dreams 😂😂
You can't use a team accomplishment to justify who is better. Kobe didn't lead any 3-Peats. The question really should be how is MJ the GOAT. Who did he beat, what other great shooting guards did he play against, and how long was his greatness?
If Shane battier called MJ a queen on the chessboard how you think he’d react? Lol
We've already seen many variations of MJ in Kobe, wade, kawhi, anthony edwards, demar... weve never seen a player like Bron who can be that dominant for 20 years straight!