I was born and raised in Chicago. The Chicago Bulls drafted Michael Jordan a week before my 8th grade graduation. It was the best graduation gift ever.
Fuk,Jordan,it players with more rings then him,Lebron James is at a way high level of Basketball at his age,he,broke the scoring record,nobody in 40 years hasn't been broke.Facts
Just an example... I was top Portland Blazer fan in 90s. Drexler had a higher percentage rating in three pointers made per attempt. He thought that would be an advantage. In the finals , Jordan came out and made like 5 in a row to start the game just to squash that idea. He did what ever he wanted. If he played against Steph curry , he probably would have made 10 in a row just to demoralize Steph the way he did Drexler.
Yea no. Jordan had weakness in his game one of them being his 3 pt shooting. Add the fact he played in weak expansion era (not even mentioning the era was weaker in general) and he never sniffed the finals until Scottie and magic/bird being out the picture, AND the bulls almost going back to the finals without him, it is clear who the better player is between lebron and Jordan. It’s not the one that played on the bulls. Everything had to align for the golden boy to win.
All your life lol you was 2 when the man got drafted you probably only understood the latter half of his career 😂 you have one thing right though mike was somethin else…
It's damn near impossible to gauge sports talent fully through TH-cam videos. You have to know the level of competition against a player, who had momentum going into games,teams history with each other and a few other factors that you have to be around when it actually happens to understand the magnitude.
Now think about the fact that your pops uncle’s or whatever watched that sh!t live right when it was happening. That finals game when he went up for the dunk and they tried to block it and he switched hands mid air nobody’s ever seen anything like that at the time that sh!t was crazy. Or the finals where he shot all those 3’s on the blazers just because the media said Clyde drexler was a better 3 point shooter and half way through he shrugs his shoulders like idk I’m just that nice no one was shooting 3’s like that back then or the flu game bro it’s so many iconic moments I could bring up. It’s unexplainable bro you just had to be there
Outstanding... great debate, concise and in-depth. The way Jordan played and would never give up on tough moments in the game, particularly during finals was just at a different level.
AFTER Lebrons 20TH season. Michael Jordan STILL has: •2 more rings •2 more final mvps •1 more DPOY •1 more season MVP •9 more scoring titles •3 more steals leader •3 more all defensive team selections •4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer lol. •800 more steals •Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10) •Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals Lebron did it twice •6/6 (never allowed a game 7) •Lebron had much more help •Jordan never had a teammate averaged more than 22 points in the finals.. Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26 and Kevin Love averaged 28 •MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs •MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games.. All of this accomplished in 13 seasons Lebron is in his 20TH season still chasing the "ghost that played in Chicago" •Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg. (86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics. •Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line. •in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this. •the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%. •MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3% •MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3. •MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9% •MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year.. Seriously this list can keep going. This isn't even a debate. Mj is the GOAT. Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls: -10 STRAIGHT scoring titles, -Won Defensive Player of the Year, -9 times all defensive team, -9time All NBA, -5 league MVPs -6 finals MVPs LBJ missed the playoffs completely in his first 2 years. Jordan didnt with scrubs on his squad. Jordan played 82 games 9 times in his career once at 40. LBJ only played 82 games once. In 89 Jordan won the scoring title all star MVP slam dunk title regular season MVP and Defensive Player of The year something LBJ has never done. Jordan also averaged 41 pts a game for an entire Finals shooting 50% and won. Something else LBJ never did. All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career... Check Mate.
Because he's able to swear where he's not able to swear on freaking live TV that's not hard to understand I found that very kool to actually listen to him speak freely and not have to worry about sensors and where he was speaking facts and was understood very clearly especially for the people in the back because they were enjoying and laughing the only person in the room that wasn't getting it or was being a antagonizer was Joe Buttons because everything he kept saying was getting disputed very very nicely😂
Joe right Mike was just ahead of his time how he played back then every body play like that now an are just as explosive at the end of the day players are better now💯
He seems like one of those guys that talks as if he knows something but you know pretty quickly he doesn’t know anything. This guy is pulling out Rex Chapman as an example. This was like debating an 8 year old.
Because of some Compliments from rivals? Bird has said LeBron and magic best ever also. Gary Payton, Stockton don't think mj the goat. This mj fear talk is nonsense.
So you are telling me that Lebron from 12' till today has an argument to eclipse Jordan but the previous 8 years which means practically another HOF career hurt his legacy? That's a bit contradictory.
@@darlingj.canelahe said this man for 6 straight games let Jason terry punk him and outscore him 6 straight times..that alone takes u out the goat discussion..u that mentally weak that u let a bench player that plays half ur mins outscore u and psych u out? Hell na
He didn't in my eyes. Joe had valid points. I have no issue with either one of them being deemed the goat, it's all about preference. But don't act like Bron not the conversation or vice versa
Damn, Budden is literally like one of those easily influenced youtube kids, who sees a couple videos that paint a false narrative and easily believes it. Like no, Isiah Thomas claiming Jordan ran to Sterns office is complete BS. First of all, no ONE person can change the rules of the game. Not Jordan, not even Stern. New rules get proposed by the NBA's Competition Committee. This committee consists of team owners, general managers, coaches, players, and league officials. They meet regularly to discuss the state of the game and consider potential changes. After they decide on a rule change it goes to the NBA Board of Governors. This board, composed of team owners and representatives, has the final say. Rules can take ALONG time to change. No one single player or person just decides to change the rules. Also no, Jordan had no problems with AI. People get hung up on ONE SINGLE PLAY. Chapmin had one good game against Jordan, then got demolished by Jordan the next several games. God damn Jason Terry lit up LeBron for an entire SERIES, why isn't that brought up? Not just any series, the series of an NBA FINALS. LeBron fanboys are the worst, I swear.
Michael's marketability has NOTHING to do with why he's the GOAT. Michael's on-court accomplishments and accolades make him the GOAT. All the off-the-court stuff are just added bonuses, making him not just an NBA GOAT, but a genuinely incredible human being.
lol even with just 3 championship, the nba was already marketing him as the best ever, despite the fact that kareem had 6 (and is the scoring leader) and russel have 11. Why though?
u can hate stephen A or love him but honestly what he said was in accordance with the facts and it was proven that he knew everything about the basketball era... PERIOD!
This man said “ I don’t blame him for 2014 because Wade was injured, I don’t blame him for 2007 because he was young and outmatched, I don’t blame him for the Kd years cause it was too much, I don’t blame him for 2015 because his second best player was delly.” Stephen a smith you just eliminated 5 finals losses lmaooo, so you only blaming him for 1? So In other words he’s the goat right?
One argument/stat that assesses MJ dominance and that Stephen forgot: Jordan is the only player in history to win the scoring title, MVP, FMVP, NBA title and be named to the All NBA defensive first team. And he did it four times.
Or his competitive spirit in he didn't lose 3 games in a row from 1990-1998. 626 games. You know he wasn't looking at a paper trying to keep the streak going either. Just the need to win was so much that after two L's he wouldn't let another game slip.
Garbage. Lebron is eons better than Jordan. Jordan was just a scorer from the guard spot. Lebron is kareem, Malone, Magic, wilt, and Russell all in one.
So you are telling me that Lebron from 12' till today has an argument to eclipse Jordan but the previous 8 years which means practically another HOF career hurt his legacy? That's a bit contradictory.
The 3 spurs teams and warriors in 4 finals are better than any team mj played. Malon, Gary, Stockton and more never feard mj or think he's the goat. It's a fair debate, mj definitely not clear.
@@LeapingRat Nah, because MJ was so good offensively, they created the illegal offense rule to slow him down. Also, hand-checking left after MJ retired for good.
I’m 46 years old and I grew up in Phoenix. I was at 2 of those finals games and was lucky enough to get to see MJ play live. That Suns team was amazing with Barkley,KJ,Ainge,Tom Chambers,Cedric Ceballos, Dan Marley. But MJ and the Bulls were something else
The fact that Joe can specifically bring up the AI cross or the Rex Chapman game literally shows you how rare it was for anyone to ever kill Jordan, we REMEMBER THE TWO TIMES IT HAPPENED. First team all-defense, goat.
@@jlmusic1469 Lebron got cooked multiple times. Terry was giving him the business in those finals. Derrick Rose repeatedly gave Lebron and Wade work during his MVP campaign. Kobe dunked on Lebron during that NBA All Star gave the follow possession from bustin' his a$$ from beyond the arch. It happens. Jordan getting crossed by A.I. was marketing for A.I. Jordan wasn't guarding A.I. full time. People forget that was a switch which is why the cross went crazy because you had a match up that was pushed by the media with the 2 biggest names from both teams standing in front of each other. A.I. got a crossover and a jump shot on M.J. and people give him ultimate credit for it, ignoring that THE BULLS STILL WON in Philly. A.I. had 4 turnovers, with 3 of them caused by M.J. even though it was Ron Harper who was guarding A.I. most of the night. M.J. was on Jerry Stackhouse who had 5 turnovers himself. Just like Lebron James die hards...mfers ignored the ultimate goal to beat their chest about a specific stat.....A.I. got a crossover, but they lost the game...... Lebron plays 20 years, to accomplish.....SOOOOO MANY STATS....but he is still 4 for 9 in the NBA Finals. Getting his a$$ handed to him in 4 of those series. A couple sweeps and a couple where he was bounced in 5. But he's suppose to be greater than a mfer who had a quote "They can't win unless we quit"......And he lived by it.....
That’s BS. That shows how little you saw. Jordan rarely guarded the other team’s best player. Scottie Pippen did. Jordan was great defending smaller slower guards, or taller slower guards. However, when a guard match his size and athleticism (which was rare) Jordan struggled. Go watch Steve Smith vs Jordan. Go watch a young Kobe vs Jordan where Jordan asked Pippen to switch. Go watch Ron Harper stripping Jordan back to back at center court and dunking on MJ. Jordan was great for the time.
@@dhuston521 Scottie can arguably be labeled the best all around defender in NBA history under 7ft. Him guarding Magic and other big guards was always the right move for the team, MJ had no problem with that. MJ wasn't 9 time 1st team all defense because the NBA needed him to be for marketing, he earned it. Averaged 2.5 steals pg for his CAREER
Y'all gotta break down why Kobe having Shaq for his first championships is a big deal but having Wade,Bosh and a couple of 3 pt champions not😅. I'm serious though. Shaq is definitely a top 10 player so I'm not mad at the initial take but lets not act like lebron didn't purposely stack the deck to win
Honestly because at what point can you say Bosh or D Wade were the best most dominating player in the NBA? Are they hall of famers? Of course we're they great? Yes but Shaq is a top 10 player of all time arguably, and Kobe had Shaq in his absolute prime. Proof is in the pudding 3 rings, Shaq was finals MVP for all 3 🤷🏾♂️
Shaq didn't carry Kobe, that's the narrative I hate, it was an equal partnership. When Shaq faced foul trouble, Kobe went off. I would say Kobe was the killer in the playoffs and Shaq was a killer in the finals.
@@kicknowledgesmith8608 I never said Shaq "carried" Kobe. I'm saying Kobe was great but it helped when you're great but you're not the best player on the team. As great as Kobe was, Shaq was DOMINANT. First ring Shaq was league MVP, All star MVP, first team all NBA 2nd team defense, and was finals MVP. Kobe avg 22/5/4 in their whole finals together, Shaq avg 33/14/3. Clearly Shaq was the better more dominant player while they were together. Not taking anything away from Kobe, but in almost half of Lebron finals appearances he's led BOTH teams in all major statistical categories, that's not opinion that's fact.
The audacity of Joe to say that MJ was cooked by Chapman and other role players is really mind boggling. Any NBA player can have a lucky day and be able to cook MJ but that's only for one game and that's it. It can actually happen to any other superstar in the NBA back then and even right now. The difference is when it really counts. Lebron was cooked by 2 role players in the 2011 finals. Imagine MJ being cooked by JJ Barrea and Jason Terry??? Heeeelllll naaaaaa.
Damn near every time somebody got a spectaular game on mj, they get demolished the the very next meeting 😂 sum even fade away never to be heard from again, they need to stop mentioning those one off games.
Everybody gets crossed up and dunked on if they play defense but did they go on to win the game more so a chip, that Boi lbj won't play defense to save his life so not much opportunities to see him get crossed up, we just get to see him air ball n bricks, speak on that
@@Jahk-mode876are you stupid? Lebron has multiple All Defensive Team selections and should have a DPOY if not for the voters snaking him for Marc Gasol who didn’t even make 1st Defensive team in 2013…Lebron has had 3 seasons in 20 years where he played below average defence. Yall let narratives overtake logic just to suit your feelings too much, why pick ignorance?
Stephen A is so entertaining to watch he was literally made for TV.. u don’t have to even know wat he’s talking about fr to be interested & engaged in war he’s saying. He keeps the energy high & flowing naturally
The video of MJ and the ref....the ref wasn't reversing a call. He was making a call unrelated to the what MJ was talking about. The ref just said he believed him...then proceeded to call a foul unrelated to the conversation he was having with MJ. People need to pay attention.
In 91 Magic was 30 years old in that finals. Yes just turned 31. Worthy was just 29. Byron Scott was 29. Vlade Divacs was 23. Ridiculous to say lakers were old. They won 58 games
MJ retired in 1993 as MVP, nba champ, finals champ, first team all-defense and scoring champ. Basically best player in the league by far. Then 2 years later he comes back and takes back everything. EVERYTHING. NBA champ, all defense, mvp, scoring champ.
@@nurangetv it does help that he's on the right side, but every solid point they have on their side, he refutes with factual information, and minimal emotion to distract.
This conversation NEEDED to be had. So many members of our younger generation, disrespect Jordan and other legends of the past. Jordan was APEX. And he's was recognized by his peers and HOFers as the APEX. There was no agenda or propaganda needed. He made it look easy against the best in the world, that's why current player think they can just roll out of bed and win titles, and find it's not as easy as Jordan made it look. There is only one Jordan, and he has yet, or remotely come close to being replicated...by ANYONE.
Funny you say replicated Because I clearly heard over an over from Lebron saying he wanted to be like Magic an that magic inspired him. Yet y’all still doing tricks on it 30 years later with all Bias intent.
If you guys think the younger generation is disrespecting Jordan, think about how much your generation is disrespecting the great players before him and set the tone. This 'GOAT' BS is the problem.
And don't get started about HOFers saying he's the Goat. I still remember 1 had 11 rings and the other averaged 50+ Points and 25+ Rebounds in a season.
Shoutout to Joe for playing Devil's advocate and bringing this much out of Stephen A. Smith 😂 that was a great way to have him explain that rather than asking him directly why he thinks Jordan is better than LeBron
MJ: zero finals without a 1st or 2nd team all NBA or all D teammate LBJ: 8 finals without those teammates. MJ played with as many All D players in ONE year alone as LBJ has his entire 20 yr career, which is only 2! AD in the bubble and Varejao in the 1st Cavs run. MJ just under 29% from the 23'9 3pt line. He benefited from the line moving in from 95-97. He shot 40% those yrs. MJ was, maybe, an average 3pt shooter. The NBA changed the distance to lure MJ back. He knew the game was changing to more 3s, and he couldn't keep up at the 23'9 line.
He said “Michael lost many times and no one ever blamed him because they knew he busted his butt averaging 30 to 35 points each game” Lebron literally did the same thing on every final or series that he lost, but I never heard anyone said it wasn’t his fault because he gave it all and averaging double digits in not only points but assists as well.
im 41 i saw him play physically this is revisionist history very few people fear mike...they knew he was good but if you ask john starks in the 90s he wouldve told you he smoke mike boots...ask stocken and malone....these niggas did not fear mike. thats not true and i want it to be know they didnt fear this nigga because they played golf two days before they would play basketball...they would joke about how much mike would score and how much they woyld score did he win yes did these niggas fear him no!!!...you know how many blows we wouldve saw if people feared him
As a Lebron fan, i never say LBJ is better than Jordan as i saw both of their careers. I rooted against Jordan most of his career and it was demoralizing watching him destroy my squad and it always felt like Jordan would win. I rooted for LBJ most of his career and i was never sure if he would pull through or even keep his composure despite his enormous talent.
This comment is my sentiments exactly. I consider Jordan and Lebron two ends of the same spectrum. One was absolute dominance and the other was the embodiment of overcoming adversity. Jordan, while winning in the fashion he did, you understand or you should, that what Jordan did will never be duplicated. Lebron, while not dominating in the same manner as Jordan, LeBron has shown that no matter what adversity befalls him he can mentally withstand and triumph in the end. In a day where social media scrutiny is more than anything Jordan ever experienced I feel like we don't give LeBron enough credit for all he has accomplished. He has had media pressure since day 1 and he has superseded all expectations. If you ask me, it's 1-A or 1-B, your preference.
@@txmade2102 Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT MJ lmaooo Jorbum always had superteams and David Stern by his side giving him every call. he would look like Derozan if he played today u clown
They mentioned all the Houston Rockets Championship team except for the most important player when it comes to the whole Rockets Vs Bulls debate... Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell , not only was he so draining on defense but Jordan just never knew when the guy was gonna take a swing at him! He was the great equalizer for the Rockets and that's why they would always beat the Bulls.
You can love or hate Stephan A's takes but you can't deny that dude was MADE to talk on camera. When he's going off on something he's passionate about it's entertaining AF even if you disagree with everything he's saying.
The whistle Joe is talking about look up " Michael Jordan Phantom calls/foul" and look for yourself. He was mad protected and babied because he was a product. But yall wont because it will ruin the image of your goat
@LoadingFailed "phantom calls" has been a thing for a while...Kareem literally won a NBA finals as a result of one....The Shaq and Kobe Lakers got a huge amount of them during the WCF against SAC....LBJ benefitted from one during the OKC series when he was with MIA....ill tell you a more objective rebuttal to the "protection" he got....for MJ 30 percent of his points came from the line....the same as LBJ and Kobe (this is common for players who attack the rim)....now compare that to Harden with at his peak almost got 40 percent of his points at the line. Superstars are always protected on the court, it was so for MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Kareem and so on...the NBA in general wants to protect the product. And if you think LBJ doesn't get the benefit of the doubt he literally said the quiet part out loud by stating "I don't fouls out" after a game...and the refs fouled him out 2 straight games like they were proving a point
Jordan's play is what separated him...like Stephen A. said, who else had the juice to get behind to market the league? Even if Jordan never won a title, he was still the actual best player on the floor whenever he came into the gym. He always showed up...especially when it counted.
I got your point. Basically back when the time of mj. Talent in the league was worst. But in lebron time talents and the game was just different. But lbjs game adopts whats the game had been.
@@johngilbertmendoza4192 ...His advantage is his size. He's not the best ball handler, doesn't have that many moves, but can get to the rim because of his strength. Jordan had a full arsenal of moves that would dominate to this very day...especially without the hand checking and arm bar in the back being banned. LeBron would have a harder time adjusting to how they played back in the day. Guys in the old schooldays would knock your head off without any repercussions(no flagrant fouls). LeBron whines now with the much less physical game of today...and he's supposed to be the game's best player. That's not goat like behavior...he disappeared too many times when his team needed him in the clutch during the playoffs...MJ never disappeared...ever. LeBron is without a doubt one of the most gifted players to play, but his mindset isn't on par with what a goat would be...especially since he proclaimed himself to be the goat. He basically created the target on his back by saying that, then going out and falling short of the mark quite a few times. I still have him at #2 behind MJ though.
@@johngilbertmendoza4192 …So you’re saying that MJ wouldn’t cook these dudes today…While non athletic players like Luka and Joker are eating? And LeBron falling while not getting touched translates better in an era where flagrant fouls didn’t exist? If LeBron had some actual balls, then yeah, he’d dominate in the old days, but he’s not wired that way. He’s disappeared from games when he was supposed to be the best in the building…there’s documented footage of those series. When MJ was getting his tail handed to him by the Pistons and Celtics, he still torched them jokers…his team just wasn’t good enough yet. Once his team was formed, nobody was beating them until he retired. There’s evidence everywhere on that.
And he doesn't even know why old school basketball players and fans alike hated how NBA of today's put potential stars on the pedestal before they even proved themselves on the NBA court. Letravel was the epitome of how the NBA tries to make stars and earn hype and money off of them. They just spit out biased arguements that literally spit back on their faces, and they Fking don't know it even.
Not really. Lebron from before Day 1 the league put pressure and said he had to live to mj and he was criticized before stepping on the court. Brons Cavs teammates hated on him before stepping on the court. No where near the same.
@@CatoProduction you just proved our point but in an opposite paint. He was put on a pedestal and showered with money, fame and glory and nurtured with all kinds of media support and favor calls that no NO ONE IN HISTORY OF NBA ENJOYED EVER UNLESS THEY PROVEED THEMSELVES ON THE COURT FIRST. AND YOU'RE ONLY MAGNIFYING THE DOWNSIDE OF IT WHEN THE UPSIDE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR ANY DREAMER TO GO FOR IF THEY WERE GIVEN BEFORE THEY PROVED THEMSELVES ON THE COURT FIRST.
Let’s just say joes right about the NBA choosing Jordan to elevate the popularity of the NBA, have they NOT done the same with the lebron for almost 2 decades??
I honestly don’t think Joe was tryna win the argument or even thought he could debate this with Stephen A. I think this was more of a chess/business move. Win/win
Joe is the type of dudes that only surrounds himself with people who he feels he's superior than in money and knowledge. Stephen A isn't one of those guys so your right to a certain degree he definitely knew he wouldn't win the argument so he takes the same stance of arrogance he does with ish and those guys like the conversation is kind of beneath him when in this case he's going off of emotion and opinions mostly while Stehphen can give you more facts and context.
@@Numbers-mc2ks What hate is there it's true look at the guys he surrounds himself with. Why doesn't he have any other rappers around him who are also insightful? You know why because those guys would be his equal and would demand equal pay etc... Guys like Joe aren't comfortable being in a space with men that are on their level are more superior than them. It won't allow their ego and attitude to be constantly justified to talk down to any in that room. Notice how when men like Stephen A come around he's still Joe but he knows he can't son him on any level unless they're talking about rap. But when it comes to money, fame, connections etc... things that he prides himself on Stephen is his equal or maybe superior when you take into account where Stephen A. colleagues rank him and his continued relevance to the culture and business vs where Joes colleagues rank him in rap and in the culture and relevance.
No facts just hype. A room full of MJ fans. Can you talk him out facts. No one to argue the opposing view. This is classic MJ delusional fans. Joe was on point with his initial comments. If there was a non-factor. Y’all can keep hyping up all his losing he never won a championship in the 80s but you still call him the greatest. Everybody else can have a great stats, but you never called them the greatest, even though they have rings to go with their little stats. MJ have stats in no rings in the 80s yet. You still call him the greatest that little contradictory and clearly bias. But I’m not surprised that’s what MJ fans do they get in a room full of MJ fans and they talk like there are doing a point there just agreeing with each other. Look at the comments for the knuckleheads. It’s funny to me, but all this over today. All those lies are going to die soon. Because I definitely expose them. In the NBA is going to expose them to. Because they can’t sell MJ no more. 🛑✨✨✨🏀
@@lenoe234Lebron has played with more all stars and hofers throughout his career than anyone in history by far against the weakest eastern conference in his prime and STILL couldn’t consistently succeed 😭
@@SoggySlopsterbullshit the East was not weak LeBron was just that good! As soon as LeBron left the East Toronto won the chip. LeBron dominated Toronto for years
So you are telling me that Lebron from 12' till today has an argument to eclipse Jordan but the previous 8 years which means practically another HOF career hurt his legacy? That's a bit contradictory.
What I find funny is people who talk about this jordan vs lebron debate but didn't live in the 80s or 90s and didn't watch all these games. They've heard the debates, watched some jordan highlights, seen him putting people in their place and go "oh look he had no competition." You could also look at Lebron highlights and think that his opponents did nothing but let him score for free. That's what highlights are. So few have actually seen what 90s ball was like and watched all the other players and lived during that time watching those games without the "well of course jordan wins" hindsight that seems to minimize his opponents.
who was his best defender? mf playyed drugged out mfs, and not to mentio they literally grabbed whats his name from a grocery store to play and mfs give him props for beating them like foh
When Jordan came back in second half of '95, he wasnt the same Jordan. He was about 70% of his old self. He had the best mid range jumper in the NBA by a long ways, and still had the mind of a MJ. He was still the best player, just not miles better, like he was from 87-93. He still did amazing things. Magical things. In the 98 finals down by a few points, he quickly scored by taking to the hole, then on defense stole the ball from the best player on the opposing team and then hit the game winner on the best defender on the opposing team. Thats magical. Part of the reason why he is so highly regarded.
I agree, he was not the same when he came back, but even with that, he was sooooo much better than everyone else, that even having lost a few steps, he was still better than the rest! and the fact that he was so much better than everyone else (and made it look easy out there even when it wasn't, as if he had no meaningful competition) proves the point that he's the GOAT!!!!
Also Jordan played the full season 9 times and played 80'or more games 3 times Lebron use s load management sits out games every year without being injured Lebron has sat over 100 games just as laid management
I swear there is no G.O.A.T debate. In 1988, Jordan was league MVP, Defensive Player of The Year, All NBA 1st team, All defense 1st team, Scoring Champ, Led the league in steals, Named All Star Team MVP, and won the Slam Dunk Contest.....ALL IN THE SAME YEAR!!!!
@@cendo3195 i guess you are part of the millennials generation, but when you know the difference between feared and revered, you will end the debate right away.
@@KeshavanRajaofera you just can't accept the fact that a Guy named LeBron came in. And entered the GOAT Scene. The longevity itself speaks for his greatness let alone the score breaking.
@@cendo3195 i accept the fact that he entered the discussion: YES, i do. I do acknowledge Lebron’s greatness FYI but kids who never seen MJ play live or lived in the 90s will never understand the fear and the competition that he had. Even the league knows that MJ is above Lebron during 75 event.
I can tell joe never watch MJ or basketball and here why there is stuff that Mj did in games that i saw and still till this day i haven't seen anyone do and this is facts.
@@thronesofgaming5240 hes not better but he could do everything mj did (and he did it better aesthetically. Which obv doesnt matter but as a fan it does a bit)
Fair point with Kobe having Shaq and not getting the nod to be top 2 but inconsistent media at the same time cause he is ranked considerably low regardless when he should be top 3 minimum
Also acknowledge that everyone said debates over after Lebron's final game with Cleveland until suddenly Lebron turned into Kaepernick overnight. Lebron understood the only chance he had to change that narrative was to be what the media hated about Jordan, didn't blindly follow script and push their agenda. He knew they'd lap it up.
When AI crossed MJ he didn't almost fall on his ass. He almost blocked it! AI said himself that he hit Jordan with his best move and barely got the shot off!!
I guess The Joe Budden Podcast are Sports Analyst now? This is an interviewing platform now? Of course this is a Troll interview. Who cares what any of these people have to say about the G.O.A.T. conversation? I mean really? We here to hear Stephan A. put somebody in their place in a subject the others speculate about. Keep it a Bean
If we want to bring up how Jordan faced weaker opposition in the Finals, fair enough. But we gotta talk about how weak the Eastern Conference was when Lebron was with the Heat and Cavaliers. None of his opponents were even in the top 75. Derrick Rose had one good year and he was never the same. Demar DeRozan and Kyle Lowry were a good duo, but those Raptors team wasnt close to being a championship contending team (prior to Kawhi joining). The most formidable team Lebron had to face in that reign was Paul George's Pacers with Stephenson, West, George Hill, and Roy fucking Hibbert. That team was the only team that was able to challenge LeBron's team and they're not Patrick Ewing's Knicks, or Reggie Miller's Pacers, or Pat Riley's Heat. The reason why LeBron made the Finals so many times was because the East was weak. Thats the reason why Lebron has more losses than wins in the Finals. All the varsity teams in the NBA were in the West.
It was nicknamed the "Leastern Conference" 😂 Then for dude to team up with his only competition will forever be the weakest shit in the history of the world. And STILL only won 2 of 4 chips 🤦🏾
I agree. But I think only people who did not see the NBA during Jordan's era or people who don't truly understand basketball or team sports would ever say Jordan faced less competition in the Finals.
@@TeeWalkWade/Bosh were literally getting bounced in the first round they were no competition to lebron Paul pierce and the Celtics were the biggest competition for lebron and please stop acting like the knicks/pacers were some legendary teams the pistons were mj biggest challenge I won’t say bird and the Celtics because mj never beat them
Stephen A got me rollin he said” I genuinely don’t understand what the hell you just said” 🤣🤣
He was lying . He proved Joe point cause he never talked about it
@@DrRhilTV😂he did lol y’all jus can’t talk actual basketball
A nice way of telling somebody they don’t know what their talking about.
Who would’ve thought one of the top sports journalists would beat a former rapper in a debate about sports.
I wasn’t understanding what he was talking about either!!!
Stephen A gave a brief NBA history lesson without even trying.
Steven A is really good
Those aren't facts.
@@pasilu007and you need to be drug tested
FACTS!
@@pasilu007vou
I was born and raised in Chicago. The Chicago Bulls drafted Michael Jordan a week before my 8th grade graduation. It was the best graduation gift ever.
damn you old
@@Jscrizle 🤣🤣🤣
@@Jscrizle I thought growth was a part of life? Nowadays, a lot of young brothers aren't living to see their 21st birthday.
@@LMont-bv7mu you're right bro my bad
@Jscrizle No problem, my brother, much love.
Step back three? Funny in the 90s it was called traveling.
Exactly!
You need to go watch some Latrell Sprewell highlights.
@joseph…
He didn’t say nobody ever traveled in previous era’s… players now are allowed to travel as part of their jump shot preparation.
Stephen A. “I literally don’t understand what the hell you just said” And the rest of the cast “ We don’t understand what you just said either” 😂😂😂
Lol friends aint shxt som3tim3s
Lmaooo that was funny
Ish was the only one who was on Stephen A. page lol
They knew exactly what he said
@@ImPapehungryRight, a bunch of NOTHING.
In Tom Brady’s quote(I’m not chasing Joe Montana or Lebron im chasing Jordan) let that sink in 😂😂😂
Right!
Fuk,Jordan,it players with more rings then him,Lebron James is at a way high level of Basketball at his age,he,broke the scoring record,nobody in 40 years hasn't been broke.Facts
Tom Brady can suck one as well
Even the best athlete from other sports was called the MICHAEL JORDAN of that sports😂😂😂😂
Tom Brady and Lebron are way more similar and jordan and Montana are way more similar though
Just an example... I was top Portland Blazer fan in 90s. Drexler had a higher percentage rating in three pointers made per attempt. He thought that would be an advantage. In the finals , Jordan came out and made like 5 in a row to start the game just to squash that idea. He did what ever he wanted. If he played against Steph curry , he probably would have made 10 in a row just to demoralize Steph the way he did Drexler.
Plus 3-pointers weren't considered good strategy back then. If MJ plaued in today's game, he would adapt accordingly.
u forget to tell the airball :D
correct...demoralize...never stop...adapt.
Yea no. Jordan had weakness in his game one of them being his 3 pt shooting. Add the fact he played in weak expansion era (not even mentioning the era was weaker in general) and he never sniffed the finals until Scottie and magic/bird being out the picture, AND the bulls almost going back to the finals without him, it is clear who the better player is between lebron and Jordan. It’s not the one that played on the bulls. Everything had to align for the golden boy to win.
Uhh NOBODY WAS GUARDING HIM?
Literally nothing to debate. Period.
Stephen A. Was saying shit I had forgotten about. Straight facts
I’m 23 years old I seen BRON all my life but when I TH-cam Jordan’s best games and watch I literally get chills…..
All your life lol you was 2 when the man got drafted you probably only understood the latter half of his career 😂 you have one thing right though mike was somethin else…
@@Follow.the.Leader 😂😂😂😂
It's damn near impossible to gauge sports talent fully through TH-cam videos. You have to know the level of competition against a player, who had momentum going into games,teams history with each other and a few other factors that you have to be around when it actually happens to understand the magnitude.
BRO EXACTLY, he was VERY MUCCH different from EVERYONE ELSE 🐐
Now think about the fact that your pops uncle’s or whatever watched that sh!t live right when it was happening. That finals game when he went up for the dunk and they tried to block it and he switched hands mid air nobody’s ever seen anything like that at the time that sh!t was crazy. Or the finals where he shot all those 3’s on the blazers just because the media said Clyde drexler was a better 3 point shooter and half way through he shrugs his shoulders like idk I’m just that nice no one was shooting 3’s like that back then or the flu game bro it’s so many iconic moments I could bring up. It’s unexplainable bro you just had to be there
When Bird got to Boston he turned a 29-53 team into a 61-21 team and it went on for years with him them like that.
Outstanding... great debate, concise and in-depth. The way Jordan played and would never give up on tough moments in the game, particularly during finals was just at a different level.
AFTER Lebrons 20TH season. Michael Jordan STILL has:
•2 more rings
•2 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer lol.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more help
•Jordan never had a teammate averaged more than 22 points in the finals..
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26 and Kevin Love averaged 28
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
All of this accomplished in 13 seasons
Lebron is in his 20TH season still chasing the "ghost that played in Chicago"
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn't even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 STRAIGHT scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
LBJ missed the playoffs completely in his first 2 years. Jordan didnt with scrubs on his squad. Jordan played 82 games 9 times in his career once at 40. LBJ only played 82 games once.
In 89 Jordan won the scoring title all star MVP slam dunk title regular season MVP and Defensive Player of The year something LBJ has never done.
Jordan also averaged 41 pts a game for an entire Finals shooting 50% and won.
Something else LBJ never did.
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career...
Check Mate.
Well stated 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
You WON brotha 💯, this was great.
He still didn't faced more talented teams and players then lebron which result in him winning more accolades and championships then lebron obviously.
Damn this man is cooking, get me my plate please. Dinner is smoked Bronguers (Bron ) courtesy of you.
Against who ? And what he did without pippen ?
To hear Stephen A being able to speak freely like this is like a breath of fresh air for some reason
I read your comment and watched. It was different
Because he's able to swear where he's not able to swear on freaking live TV that's not hard to understand I found that very kool to actually listen to him speak freely and not have to worry about sensors and where he was speaking facts and was understood very clearly especially for the people in the back because they were enjoying and laughing the only person in the room that wasn't getting it or was being a antagonizer was Joe Buttons because everything he kept saying was getting disputed very very nicely😂
Its rehearsed duh
How old is Joe? He talking like he was 3 back then. He should remember all this. I remember like yesterday.😂
Jordan, all day long over Lebron...... Done...
Stephen is truly a talented TV personality. His delivery keeps you intrigued and entertained 🔥.
That’s a fact
Joe right Mike was just ahead of his time how he played back then every body play like that now an are just as explosive at the end of the day players are better now💯
Stephen’s facial expressions be killing me 😂😂😂
Steven a as captivating as paul heyman! Man give wwe level promos every single time he speaks 💯
Stephen A d FUCKING BEST 👌 HE JUST FLOWS WEN HE SPEAKS. AM SO FCKING PROUD TO BE BLACK , STEPHEN A ALLL DAY
Joe really got cooked so bad he didn’t say a word damn near this whole segment.
Cause he’s a diva 😂😂
He seems like one of those guys that talks as if he knows something but you know pretty quickly he doesn’t know anything. This guy is pulling out Rex Chapman as an example. This was like debating an 8 year old.
@@craigcooper7586 who was the best player jordsn had to guard during his rings?
Talking with Stephen A about basketball history is so cool to hear
6-0 in the finals. 6 finals mvp. 5 mvps. 10 scoring titles. 1 dpoy. No one is close
Jordan only pay 6 yrs
@@mauricewilliams4162 6>5>4
I will say this, that was the most thorough explanation I’ve ever heard of why Jordan is the best, and I 1000% agree Stephen!
Because of some Compliments from rivals? Bird has said LeBron and magic best ever also. Gary Payton, Stockton don't think mj the goat. This mj fear talk is nonsense.
@thialhoinj1971 lol nah it's on point far more legends Say MJ for a reason he was different
So you are telling me that Lebron from 12' till today has an argument to eclipse Jordan but the previous 8 years which means practically another HOF career hurt his legacy? That's a bit contradictory.
@@darlingj.canelahe said this man for 6 straight games let Jason terry punk him and outscore him 6 straight times..that alone takes u out the goat discussion..u that mentally weak that u let a bench player that plays half ur mins outscore u and psych u out? Hell na
@@thialhoinj1971 "God in gym shorts" (per Bird) is greater than the best ever.
love seeing someone put Joe in their place with FACTS😂😂😂
He didn't in my eyes. Joe had valid points. I have no issue with either one of them being deemed the goat, it's all about preference. But don't act like Bron not the conversation or vice versa
It wasn’t facts at all, joe won lol
@@KKB45that is Mal's cousin fat Kenny
What facts Jordan fanboys just love Their savior
@@KKB45he need to do his homework on jordan and lebron both having valid arguments for being the goat
Damn, Budden is literally like one of those easily influenced youtube kids, who sees a couple videos that paint a false narrative and easily believes it. Like no, Isiah Thomas claiming Jordan ran to Sterns office is complete BS. First of all, no ONE person can change the rules of the game. Not Jordan, not even Stern. New rules get proposed by the NBA's Competition Committee. This committee consists of team owners, general managers, coaches, players, and league officials. They meet regularly to discuss the state of the game and consider potential changes. After they decide on a rule change it goes to the NBA Board of Governors. This board, composed of team owners and representatives, has the final say. Rules can take ALONG time to change. No one single player or person just decides to change the rules.
Also no, Jordan had no problems with AI. People get hung up on ONE SINGLE PLAY. Chapmin had one good game against Jordan, then got demolished by Jordan the next several games. God damn Jason Terry lit up LeBron for an entire SERIES, why isn't that brought up? Not just any series, the series of an NBA FINALS.
LeBron fanboys are the worst, I swear.
Michael's marketability has NOTHING to do with why he's the GOAT. Michael's on-court accomplishments and accolades make him the GOAT. All the off-the-court stuff are just added bonuses, making him not just an NBA GOAT, but a genuinely incredible human being.
lol even with just 3 championship, the nba was already marketing him as the best ever, despite the fact that kareem had 6 (and is the scoring leader) and russel have 11. Why though?
Four a fool.
You can't go away from the truth that it is happening because he embraced the court. Can you get an inferior artist though?
Stephen A really LIVES this shit!!! The basketball knowledge especially remembering everybody’s name is absolutely jaw-dropping.
That is not hard for us who truly loves basketball he just over talking to get common folk like you
Not hard when you watch basketball. Fans of the 00s can name every player on those playoff teams.
What so hard about that if it’s his job
@@brookshoftvTH-cam is so toxic wtf lmaoo
lmao all three of you hating let me guess y'all can run first take too huh??? lmao @brookshoftv @@thechoosenone4827 @cazlife8028 🤣🤣🤣
u can hate stephen A or love him but honestly what he said was in accordance with the facts and it was proven that he knew everything about the basketball era... PERIOD!
even a broken clock is right twice a date…
-12:24 ‘Joe you ignorant’ lol😂
This man said “ I don’t blame him for 2014 because Wade was injured, I don’t blame him for 2007 because he was young and outmatched, I don’t blame him for the Kd years cause it was too much, I don’t blame him for 2015 because his second best player was delly.” Stephen a smith you just eliminated 5 finals losses lmaooo, so you only blaming him for 1? So In other words he’s the goat right?
Just because he didn’t blame him for the losses doesn’t take away that it’s still a loss.
I like how Melissa Ford didn’t speak a word this whole video lol 😂
Not her element 😂
Which is a good thing. Some woman on pods try to interject on literally no knowledge 😂
i wish the other dude would stfu and stop interrupting...
Darlene from the 5150 Show would have been speaking over them.
She not like molly
@@lbbyron154Molly job is to talk sports melissa isn’t
One argument/stat that assesses MJ dominance and that Stephen forgot: Jordan is the only player in history to win the scoring title, MVP, FMVP, NBA title and be named to the All NBA defensive first team. And he did it four times.
This the comment I’ve been looking for people won’t speak on this
Or his competitive spirit in he didn't lose 3 games in a row from 1990-1998. 626 games. You know he wasn't looking at a paper trying to keep the streak going either. Just the need to win was so much that after two L's he wouldn't let another game slip.
All defense 1st team, 9 times not 4x and defense player of the year one season.
@@KemperFi13 I mean all together the same year
@@blindprophet182 played grocery store workers and coked out mfs, he couldnt win when he actually had comp
I’m just happy Joe asked about David Stern
I love how he refers to lebron blowing the chip against the mavs, "the choke"
This is a masterpiece of pure basketball knowledge by Stephen A … the logic is undeniable.
It’s actually incredibly deniable, his logic is absolutely terrible.
He was terrible in my opinion.
Garbage. Lebron is eons better than Jordan. Jordan was just a scorer from the guard spot. Lebron is kareem, Malone, Magic, wilt, and Russell all in one.
So you are telling me that Lebron from 12' till today has an argument to eclipse Jordan but the previous 8 years which means practically another HOF career hurt his legacy? That's a bit contradictory.
@@prince21781Airballs FTs left and right, "all in one" LMAO. Jordan will stay at the top, then, now and 20 years from now.
Best breakdown of the Jordan Vs. LeBron debate I’ve ever heard
No it was not, lmao. Joe never saw him play.
I had better ones 😂
That’s a damn lie
@@Pll06 😅😂
Then you did not hear much. Here are much better on youtube.
THE FACT THAT ONE PERSON could say "imma drop 50 AND DO IT " ....just VALIDATES the lack of talent back n that era , and weakness
Couldn't win without Pip but nobody say nothing
Exactly. Pip or Rodman, BOTH HOF players! Doesn’t matter though!😂
honestly impressed by how delusional Joe's confidence can be...
It’s a super power / curse
@@Thisthat1234great response can you elaborate your answer as to why it’s gift and curse?
The 3 spurs teams and warriors in 4 finals are better than any team mj played. Malon, Gary, Stockton and more never feard mj or think he's the goat. It's a fair debate, mj definitely not clear.
@@thialhoinj1971nah the bulls were just that dominate it’s a reason jordan is the measuring stick for everyone
@@justinhenryrebelin 5 of 6 finals appearances Jordan faced teams with less hall of famers than his own bulls team. His Bulls won 55 games without MJ
David stern's marketing doesn't work if he wasn't the goat he was. Jordan proved himself
And that was MJ's point in the doc. If he was a sorry player or just decent, Nike nor the NBA reaches "that" height.
they changed rules for him to succeed.
@@LeapingRat Nah, because MJ was so good offensively, they created the illegal offense rule to slow him down. Also, hand-checking left after MJ retired for good.
This is a lie .
That’s what mfs don’t think about they just talk n hate
I’m 46 years old and I grew up in Phoenix. I was at 2 of those finals games and was lucky enough to get to see MJ play live. That Suns team was amazing with Barkley,KJ,Ainge,Tom Chambers,Cedric Ceballos,
Dan Marley. But MJ and the Bulls were something else
Cooking someone in a move or 2 means nothing if that player drops 50 on you 😂
I love when Stephen A is spitting facts and making people in the background laughing and clapping. Always a pleasure
The fact that Joe can specifically bring up the AI cross or the Rex Chapman game literally shows you how rare it was for anyone to ever kill Jordan, we REMEMBER THE TWO TIMES IT HAPPENED. First team all-defense, goat.
He didn't mention when Durant put James flat on his back. lol
You play long enough everyone gets cooked at least once!
@@jlmusic1469 Lebron got cooked multiple times. Terry was giving him the business in those finals. Derrick Rose repeatedly gave Lebron and Wade work during his MVP campaign. Kobe dunked on Lebron during that NBA All Star gave the follow possession from bustin' his a$$ from beyond the arch.
It happens. Jordan getting crossed by A.I. was marketing for A.I. Jordan wasn't guarding A.I. full time. People forget that was a switch which is why the cross went crazy because you had a match up that was pushed by the media with the 2 biggest names from both teams standing in front of each other. A.I. got a crossover and a jump shot on M.J. and people give him ultimate credit for it, ignoring that THE BULLS STILL WON in Philly. A.I. had 4 turnovers, with 3 of them caused by M.J. even though it was Ron Harper who was guarding A.I. most of the night. M.J. was on Jerry Stackhouse who had 5 turnovers himself.
Just like Lebron James die hards...mfers ignored the ultimate goal to beat their chest about a specific stat.....A.I. got a crossover, but they lost the game......
Lebron plays 20 years, to accomplish.....SOOOOO MANY STATS....but he is still 4 for 9 in the NBA Finals. Getting his a$$ handed to him in 4 of those series. A couple sweeps and a couple where he was bounced in 5. But he's suppose to be greater than a mfer who had a quote "They can't win unless we quit"......And he lived by it.....
That’s BS. That shows how little you saw. Jordan rarely guarded the other team’s best player. Scottie Pippen did. Jordan was great defending smaller slower guards, or taller slower guards. However, when a guard match his size and athleticism (which was rare) Jordan struggled. Go watch Steve Smith vs Jordan. Go watch a young Kobe vs Jordan where Jordan asked Pippen to switch. Go watch Ron Harper stripping Jordan back to back at center court and dunking on MJ. Jordan was great for the time.
Jordan was/is the greatest marketing job of all time.
@@dhuston521 Scottie can arguably be labeled the best all around defender in NBA history under 7ft. Him guarding Magic and other big guards was always the right move for the team, MJ had no problem with that. MJ wasn't 9 time 1st team all defense because the NBA needed him to be for marketing, he earned it. Averaged 2.5 steals pg for his CAREER
His yard ain't clean, Stephen A, clean it for him.💯
Lebron against Dallas Mavericks in the 2011 Playoffs: 17.8 ppg, 7.2 reb, 6.8 assists, 4 turnovers per game. Who guarded him?
JJ Barea.
Who?
Y'all gotta break down why Kobe having Shaq for his first championships is a big deal but having Wade,Bosh and a couple of 3 pt champions not😅. I'm serious though. Shaq is definitely a top 10 player so I'm not mad at the initial take but lets not act like lebron didn't purposely stack the deck to win
LBJ overrated af
Kobe was blessed with Shaq...lbj had to make his blessing because his organization was trash... it's that simple
Honestly because at what point can you say Bosh or D Wade were the best most dominating player in the NBA? Are they hall of famers? Of course we're they great? Yes but Shaq is a top 10 player of all time arguably, and Kobe had Shaq in his absolute prime. Proof is in the pudding 3 rings, Shaq was finals MVP for all 3 🤷🏾♂️
Shaq didn't carry Kobe, that's the narrative I hate, it was an equal partnership. When Shaq faced foul trouble, Kobe went off. I would say Kobe was the killer in the playoffs and Shaq was a killer in the finals.
@@kicknowledgesmith8608 I never said Shaq "carried" Kobe. I'm saying Kobe was great but it helped when you're great but you're not the best player on the team. As great as Kobe was, Shaq was DOMINANT. First ring Shaq was league MVP, All star MVP, first team all NBA 2nd team defense, and was finals MVP. Kobe avg 22/5/4 in their whole finals together, Shaq avg 33/14/3. Clearly Shaq was the better more dominant player while they were together. Not taking anything away from Kobe, but in almost half of Lebron finals appearances he's led BOTH teams in all major statistical categories, that's not opinion that's fact.
The audacity of Joe to say that MJ was cooked by Chapman and other role players is really mind boggling. Any NBA player can have a lucky day and be able to cook MJ but that's only for one game and that's it. It can actually happen to any other superstar in the NBA back then and even right now. The difference is when it really counts. Lebron was cooked by 2 role players in the 2011 finals. Imagine MJ being cooked by JJ Barrea and Jason Terry??? Heeeelllll naaaaaa.
Damn near every time somebody got a spectaular game on mj, they get demolished the the very next meeting 😂 sum even fade away never to be heard from again, they need to stop mentioning those one off games.
He was cooked by a few people anytime real handle got in front of him he was in a blender but hey let's not mess up the nostalgia 🤫
Everybody gets crossed up and dunked on if they play defense but did they go on to win the game more so a chip, that Boi lbj won't play defense to save his life so not much opportunities to see him get crossed up, we just get to see him air ball n bricks, speak on that
@@Jahk-mode876are you stupid? Lebron has multiple All Defensive Team selections and should have a DPOY if not for the voters snaking him for Marc Gasol who didn’t even make 1st Defensive team in 2013…Lebron has had 3 seasons in 20 years where he played below average defence. Yall let narratives overtake logic just to suit your feelings too much, why pick ignorance?
@@Flawless_technique jj barea…😆
This is def the best take by anyone regarding the Jordan vs Lebron debate. He hit all the points.
You just know, Stephen A is a ride or die Jordan fan and I’m all for it. Everytime Stephen A talks about Jordan it’s almost a sense or referring the 🐐
Stephen A is so entertaining to watch he was literally made for TV.. u don’t have to even know wat he’s talking about fr to be interested & engaged in war he’s saying. He keeps the energy high & flowing naturally
The video of MJ and the ref....the ref wasn't reversing a call. He was making a call unrelated to the what MJ was talking about. The ref just said he believed him...then proceeded to call a foul unrelated to the conversation he was having with MJ. People need to pay attention.
Huh?... lol, everyone SHOULD know exactly what he's saying lmao 😂
Ppl that say lebron is the goat don’t know basketball
You don’t know what he saying? 😂
Iono why but I love Stephen A cursing 😂😂😂😂
Because you know he wanting pop off soo bad in TV but can't 😂
In 91 Magic was 30 years old in that finals. Yes just turned 31. Worthy was just 29. Byron Scott was 29. Vlade Divacs was 23. Ridiculous to say lakers were old. They won 58 games
MJ retired in 1993 as MVP, nba champ, finals champ, first team all-defense and scoring champ. Basically best player in the league by far.
Then 2 years later he comes back and takes back everything. EVERYTHING. NBA champ, all defense, mvp, scoring champ.
I don't think Steven A will ever lose this debate
He cant....it's a fact!!!
@@nurangetv it does help that he's on the right side, but every solid point they have on their side, he refutes with factual information, and minimal emotion to distract.
@jasonoliver7029 but what fact tho? Joe doesn't kno what he's talking about. He's just arguing the other side
@@nurangetv I'm saying Stephen A refutes with fact
The goat debate is very subjective
Unfiltered Stephen A is top tier
The guy that’s sitting on the side of Stephen A Smith shut the hell up
To many, Stephen A may be annoying, But the man is an NBA historian machine!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fr the knowledge is crazy
Stephen A just cooked Joe on his own show for half an hour . Somebody get this man an apron and a chefs hat
He admitted the whole way through that jordan had no competition lmaoooo he would just be another Devin booker in today's league .. relax jordansexusl
@@lenoe234No comp because he WAS THAT GREAT
What competition, JJ Barea?
@@lenoe234 Chill out bronsexual. Your boy got outplayed only by a bench players.
@@jhad777no COMP BECAUSE THE TEAM HE FACED SUCKED😅😅😅😅😅
This conversation NEEDED to be had. So many members of our younger generation, disrespect Jordan and other legends of the past. Jordan was APEX. And he's was recognized by his peers and HOFers as the APEX. There was no agenda or propaganda needed. He made it look easy against the best in the world, that's why current player think they can just roll out of bed and win titles, and find it's not as easy as Jordan made it look. There is only one Jordan, and he has yet, or remotely come close to being replicated...by ANYONE.
Funny you say replicated Because I clearly heard over an over from Lebron saying he wanted to be like Magic an that magic inspired him. Yet y’all still doing tricks on it 30 years later with all Bias intent.
@@drelocs2878 Magic is a fan of Jordan
@@victorbest7061 So.... Jordan is a fan of LeBron.
If you guys think the younger generation is disrespecting Jordan, think about how much your generation is disrespecting the great players before him and set the tone.
This 'GOAT' BS is the problem.
And don't get started about HOFers saying he's the Goat. I still remember 1 had 11 rings and the other averaged 50+ Points and 25+ Rebounds in a season.
"Who is this ninja as if I needed his advice"? - Stephen A.
You will NEVER flip a Jordan Stan and you will NEVER flip a LeBron stan… it’s POINTLESS… they BOTH are GOTEs
Greatest Of Their Era 💪
Stephen A is one man who deserves his check, wow…
Shoutout to Joe for playing Devil's advocate and bringing this much out of Stephen A. Smith 😂 that was a great way to have him explain that rather than asking him directly why he thinks Jordan is better than LeBron
Joe actually believes that stuff lol.
MJ: zero finals without a 1st or 2nd team all NBA or all D teammate
LBJ: 8 finals without those teammates.
MJ played with as many All D players in ONE year alone as LBJ has his entire 20 yr career, which is only 2! AD in the bubble and Varejao in the 1st Cavs run.
MJ just under 29% from the 23'9 3pt line. He benefited from the line moving in from 95-97. He shot 40% those yrs. MJ was, maybe, an average 3pt shooter. The NBA changed the distance to lure MJ back. He knew the game was changing to more 3s, and he couldn't keep up at the 23'9 line.
He said “Michael lost many times and no one ever blamed him because they knew he busted his butt averaging 30 to 35 points each game” Lebron literally did the same thing on every final or series that he lost, but I never heard anyone said it wasn’t his fault because he gave it all and averaging double digits in not only points but assists as well.
Ya it’s simply Jordan, idk how people that never saw the man play live could be talking about his legacy.
exactly.
Lebron is a better individual plate jordan had Scottie to lockdown for him Rodman to rebound for him all he had to do was score 1v1 and guard some bum
im 41 i saw him play physically this is revisionist history very few people fear mike...they knew he was good but if you ask john starks in the 90s he wouldve told you he smoke mike boots...ask stocken and malone....these niggas did not fear mike. thats not true and i want it to be know they didnt fear this nigga because they played golf two days before they would play basketball...they would joke about how much mike would score and how much they woyld score did he win yes did these niggas fear him no!!!...you know how many blows we wouldve saw if people feared him
@@kylinmooney167👶🏿
@@kylinmooney167bro shut up just say you never played basketball
As a Lebron fan, i never say LBJ is better than Jordan as i saw both of their careers. I rooted against Jordan most of his career and it was demoralizing watching him destroy my squad and it always felt like Jordan would win. I rooted for LBJ most of his career and i was never sure if he would pull through or even keep his composure despite his enormous talent.
Was looking for the easy way out to win championships Lecrybby is no GOAT Ring Chasing CHUMP
That’s why he’s the GOAT
This comment is my sentiments exactly. I consider Jordan and Lebron two ends of the same spectrum. One was absolute dominance and the other was the embodiment of overcoming adversity. Jordan, while winning in the fashion he did, you understand or you should, that what Jordan did will never be duplicated. Lebron, while not dominating in the same manner as Jordan, LeBron has shown that no matter what adversity befalls him he can mentally withstand and triumph in the end. In a day where social media scrutiny is more than anything Jordan ever experienced I feel like we don't give LeBron enough credit for all he has accomplished. He has had media pressure since day 1 and he has superseded all expectations. If you ask me, it's 1-A or 1-B, your preference.
@@WeRideHigh24 Great comment!
@@txmade2102 Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT MJ lmaooo Jorbum always had superteams and David Stern by his side giving him every call. he would look like Derozan if he played today u clown
They mentioned all the Houston Rockets Championship team except for the most important player when it comes to the whole Rockets Vs Bulls debate... Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell , not only was he so draining on defense but Jordan just never knew when the guy was gonna take a swing at him! He was the great equalizer for the Rockets and that's why they would always beat the Bulls.
You can love or hate Stephan A's takes but you can't deny that dude was MADE to talk on camera. When he's going off on something he's passionate about it's entertaining AF even if you disagree with everything he's saying.
Joe got lost when someone gave a coherent, well spoken argument
I don’t think he was lost…I think he respectfully gave SAS the freedom to talk…
The whistle Joe is talking about look up " Michael Jordan Phantom calls/foul" and look for yourself. He was mad protected and babied because he was a product. But yall wont because it will ruin the image of your goat
@LoadingFailed "phantom calls" has been a thing for a while...Kareem literally won a NBA finals as a result of one....The Shaq and Kobe Lakers got a huge amount of them during the WCF against SAC....LBJ benefitted from one during the OKC series when he was with MIA....ill tell you a more objective rebuttal to the "protection" he got....for MJ 30 percent of his points came from the line....the same as LBJ and Kobe (this is common for players who attack the rim)....now compare that to Harden with at his peak almost got 40 percent of his points at the line. Superstars are always protected on the court, it was so for MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Kareem and so on...the NBA in general wants to protect the product.
And if you think LBJ doesn't get the benefit of the doubt he literally said the quiet part out loud by stating "I don't fouls out" after a game...and the refs fouled him out 2 straight games like they were proving a point
Jordan's play is what separated him...like Stephen A. said, who else had the juice to get behind to market the league? Even if Jordan never won a title, he was still the actual best player on the floor whenever he came into the gym. He always showed up...especially when it counted.
I got your point. Basically back when the time of mj. Talent in the league was worst. But in lebron time talents and the game was just different. But lbjs game adopts whats the game had been.
@@johngilbertmendoza4192 ...His advantage is his size. He's not the best ball handler, doesn't have that many moves, but can get to the rim because of his strength.
Jordan had a full arsenal of moves that would dominate to this very day...especially without the hand checking and arm bar in the back being banned.
LeBron would have a harder time adjusting to how they played back in the day. Guys in the old schooldays would knock your head off without any repercussions(no flagrant fouls).
LeBron whines now with the much less physical game of today...and he's supposed to be the game's best player.
That's not goat like behavior...he disappeared too many times when his team needed him in the clutch during the playoffs...MJ never disappeared...ever.
LeBron is without a doubt one of the most gifted players to play, but his mindset isn't on par with what a goat would be...especially since he proclaimed himself to be the goat. He basically created the target on his back by saying that, then going out and falling short of the mark quite a few times.
I still have him at #2 behind MJ though.
Bouden trying to distract Jordan greatness for lebron
@@johngilbertmendoza4192 …So you’re saying that MJ wouldn’t cook these dudes today…While non athletic players like Luka and Joker are eating?
And LeBron falling while not getting touched translates better in an era where flagrant fouls didn’t exist?
If LeBron had some actual balls, then yeah, he’d dominate in the old days, but he’s not wired that way.
He’s disappeared from games when he was supposed to be the best in the building…there’s documented footage of those series.
When MJ was getting his tail handed to him by the Pistons and Celtics, he still torched them jokers…his team just wasn’t good enough yet.
Once his team was formed, nobody was beating them until he retired. There’s evidence everywhere on that.
@@pierlouis7325 🤣🤣🤣
Get Jordan some help against the Celtics and Pistons 😂😂😂😂 You never heard it
At this point when joe ask who hit a step back 3 he was reaching
Stephen A Smith is a national treasure. He speaks FACTS no matter what!
Cut it tf out
Joe's initial argument applies to LeBron more than anyone ever
And he doesn't even know why old school basketball players and fans alike hated how NBA of today's put potential stars on the pedestal before they even proved themselves on the NBA court.
Letravel was the epitome of how the NBA tries to make stars and earn hype and money off of them.
They just spit out biased arguements that literally spit back on their faces, and they Fking don't know it even.
Yes…..”the chosen one” Nike deal in high school
Bout to just produce 🪞
Not really. Lebron from before Day 1 the league put pressure and said he had to live to mj and he was criticized before stepping on the court. Brons Cavs teammates hated on him before stepping on the court. No where near the same.
@@CatoProduction you just proved our point but in an opposite paint.
He was put on a pedestal and showered with money, fame and glory and nurtured with all kinds of media support and favor calls that no NO ONE IN HISTORY OF NBA ENJOYED EVER UNLESS THEY PROVEED THEMSELVES ON THE COURT FIRST.
AND YOU'RE ONLY MAGNIFYING THE DOWNSIDE OF IT WHEN THE UPSIDE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR ANY DREAMER TO GO FOR IF THEY WERE GIVEN BEFORE THEY PROVED THEMSELVES ON THE COURT FIRST.
"Bird was great" 💀💀💀💀💀💀
Let’s just say joes right about the NBA choosing Jordan to elevate the popularity of the NBA, have they NOT done the same with the lebron for almost 2 decades??
I honestly don’t think Joe was tryna win the argument or even thought he could debate this with Stephen A. I think this was more of a chess/business move. Win/win
Joe is the type of dudes that only surrounds himself with people who he feels he's superior than in money and knowledge. Stephen A isn't one of those guys so your right to a certain degree he definitely knew he wouldn't win the argument so he takes the same stance of arrogance he does with ish and those guys like the conversation is kind of beneath him when in this case he's going off of emotion and opinions mostly while Stehphen can give you more facts and context.
@@sammygulley7204just wrote all that only to be hating 🤣
@@Numbers-mc2ks What hate is there it's true look at the guys he surrounds himself with. Why doesn't he have any other rappers around him who are also insightful? You know why because those guys would be his equal and would demand equal pay etc... Guys like Joe aren't comfortable being in a space with men that are on their level are more superior than them. It won't allow their ego and attitude to be constantly justified to talk down to any in that room. Notice how when men like Stephen A come around he's still Joe but he knows he can't son him on any level unless they're talking about rap. But when it comes to money, fame, connections etc... things that he prides himself on Stephen is his equal or maybe superior when you take into account where Stephen A. colleagues rank him and his continued relevance to the culture and business vs where Joes colleagues rank him in rap and in the culture and relevance.
You swear Joe is some mastermind Lmaoo what business move could this have possibly been.
Nah y’all just hating on Joe that’s it none of y’all have ever met that man stop it
The last 2 minutes of the 98 Finals seal the door shut for me.
Whoever has a lil bit of white in their beard knows MJ23 is the actual GOAT
If you didn’t watch basketball in the 90’s then don’t speak about comparing the two
Stephen A knows the game too well. Props to him!
Stephen A. Smith just put that argument to rest with pure facts and great delivery.
❤
No facts just hype. A room full of MJ fans. Can you talk him out facts. No one to argue the opposing view. This is classic MJ delusional fans. Joe was on point with his initial comments. If there was a non-factor. Y’all can keep hyping up all his losing he never won a championship in the 80s but you still call him the greatest. Everybody else can have a great stats, but you never called them the greatest, even though they have rings to go with their little stats. MJ have stats in no rings in the 80s yet. You still call him the greatest that little contradictory and clearly bias. But I’m not surprised that’s what MJ fans do they get in a room full of MJ fans and they talk like there are doing a point there just agreeing with each other. Look at the comments for the knuckleheads. It’s funny to me, but all this over today. All those lies are going to die soon. Because I definitely expose them. In the NBA is going to expose them to. Because they can’t sell MJ no more. 🛑✨✨✨🏀
Thank you! It’s like listen to people in a cult.
To rest for you because you already thought it anyway. He didn't change anyone's mind. FOH
@@CastleNobleFacts!!!
Stephen A ran a master class in this debate
He admitted the whole way through that jordan had no competition lmaoooo he would just be another Devin booker in today's league .. relax jordansexusl
@@lenoe234Lebron has played with more all stars and hofers throughout his career than anyone in history by far against the weakest eastern conference in his prime and STILL couldn’t consistently succeed 😭
Stephen A just did a bunch of filler talk. He literally said a whole bunch of nothing.
@@SoggySlopsterbullshit the East was not weak LeBron was just that good! As soon as LeBron left the East Toronto won the chip. LeBron dominated Toronto for years
So you are telling me that Lebron from 12' till today has an argument to eclipse Jordan but the previous 8 years which means practically another HOF career hurt his legacy? That's a bit contradictory.
Stephen a smith and ryan davis need to have a lebron vs jordan debate
What I find funny is people who talk about this jordan vs lebron debate but didn't live in the 80s or 90s and didn't watch all these games. They've heard the debates, watched some jordan highlights, seen him putting people in their place and go "oh look he had no competition." You could also look at Lebron highlights and think that his opponents did nothing but let him score for free. That's what highlights are. So few have actually seen what 90s ball was like and watched all the other players and lived during that time watching those games without the "well of course jordan wins" hindsight that seems to minimize his opponents.
who was his best defender? mf playyed drugged out mfs, and not to mentio they literally grabbed whats his name from a grocery store to play and mfs give him props for beating them like foh
When joe thinks he knows how to speak and manipulate and then meets Stephen A 😂😂😂 he can do that to the 304s not Stephen tho 😂
When Jordan came back in second half of '95, he wasnt the same Jordan. He was about 70% of his old self. He had the best mid range jumper in the NBA by a long ways, and still had the mind of a MJ. He was still the best player, just not miles better, like he was from 87-93. He still did amazing things. Magical things. In the 98 finals down by a few points, he quickly scored by taking to the hole, then on defense stole the ball from the best player on the opposing team and then hit the game winner on the best defender on the opposing team. Thats magical. Part of the reason why he is so highly regarded.
I agree, he was not the same when he came back, but even with that, he was sooooo much better than everyone else, that even having lost a few steps, he was still better than the rest! and the fact that he was so much better than everyone else (and made it look easy out there even when it wasn't, as if he had no meaningful competition) proves the point that he's the GOAT!!!!
Obviously, anyone would need time after a season of not playing... but oh boy that next full season he was back.
This isn’t a debate stop it
Also Jordan played the full season 9 times and played 80'or more games 3 times Lebron use s load management sits out games every year without being injured Lebron has sat over 100 games just as laid management
I swear there is no G.O.A.T debate. In 1988, Jordan was league MVP, Defensive Player of The Year, All NBA 1st team, All defense 1st team, Scoring Champ, Led the league in steals, Named All Star Team MVP, and won the Slam Dunk Contest.....ALL IN THE SAME YEAR!!!!
and don't forget champion.
Until lebron cames in
@@cendo3195 i guess you are part of the millennials generation, but when you know the difference between feared and revered, you will end the debate right away.
@@KeshavanRajaofera you just can't accept the fact that a Guy named LeBron came in. And entered the GOAT Scene. The longevity itself speaks for his greatness let alone the score breaking.
@@cendo3195 i accept the fact that he entered the discussion: YES, i do. I do acknowledge Lebron’s greatness FYI but kids who never seen MJ play live or lived in the 90s will never understand the fear and the competition that he had. Even the league knows that MJ is above Lebron during 75 event.
I can tell joe never watch MJ or basketball and here why there is stuff that Mj did in games that i saw and still till this day i haven't seen anyone do and this is facts.
Kobe did all that (almost as good)
@@t-4579 you a lie nothing KB did look Better than MJ the Copy could never be better than the original and that a fact.
@@t-4579I’m a mamba fan and Kobe was a great value Michael, meaning he gave his best impersonation but still not mike 😭💯🤷🏾♂️6-0
6:19 so we praise him for losing but shit on bron for losing gotchu😂😂
@@thronesofgaming5240 hes not better but he could do everything mj did (and he did it better aesthetically. Which obv doesnt matter but as a fan it does a bit)
Fair point with Kobe having Shaq and not getting the nod to be top 2 but inconsistent media at the same time cause he is ranked considerably low regardless when he should be top 3 minimum
Also acknowledge that everyone said debates over after Lebron's final game with Cleveland until suddenly Lebron turned into Kaepernick overnight. Lebron understood the only chance he had to change that narrative was to be what the media hated about Jordan, didn't blindly follow script and push their agenda. He knew they'd lap it up.
Joe really said who in MJs era did a step back 3😂😂😂😂😂 bro that’s a whole different era wtf
Bird did step back 3in the 80s occasionally
When defense has all but been outlawed. So who in Lebron's era is allowed to defend 😂
His point was the game is tougher now. 😂
Jordan played against weak players I’m sorry
Yeah but I think SAS put the nail on the coffin about the differences between them two from a mental perspective.
When AI crossed MJ he didn't almost fall on his ass. He almost blocked it! AI said himself that he hit Jordan with his best move and barely got the shot off!!
AI also RECENTLY said that one LeBron James is the GOAT😮
@@simplekindabbthat is not what he said. He said there's Michael and kobe and then everyone else
I guess The Joe Budden Podcast are Sports Analyst now? This is an interviewing platform now? Of course this is a Troll interview. Who cares what any of these people have to say about the G.O.A.T. conversation? I mean really? We here to hear Stephan A. put somebody in their place in a subject the others speculate about. Keep it a Bean
That MOFO on da couch interupting and talking TOOOOOOOOOOO DAMN Much,, people that try to finish others sentences mid talk is so F’N IRRITATING!!😡
He was being modest he actually crossed him twice in the same possession
This is where the Len Bias What IFs are great
Stephen A didn’t mention MJ stopped Hall of famers and great players from winning championships
If we want to bring up how Jordan faced weaker opposition in the Finals, fair enough. But we gotta talk about how weak the Eastern Conference was when Lebron was with the Heat and Cavaliers. None of his opponents were even in the top 75. Derrick Rose had one good year and he was never the same. Demar DeRozan and Kyle Lowry were a good duo, but those Raptors team wasnt close to being a championship contending team (prior to Kawhi joining). The most formidable team Lebron had to face in that reign was Paul George's Pacers with Stephenson, West, George Hill, and Roy fucking Hibbert. That team was the only team that was able to challenge LeBron's team and they're not Patrick Ewing's Knicks, or Reggie Miller's Pacers, or Pat Riley's Heat. The reason why LeBron made the Finals so many times was because the East was weak. Thats the reason why Lebron has more losses than wins in the Finals. All the varsity teams in the NBA were in the West.
Exactly! Bro look at the teams LeBron played ON THE WAY to the finals...🤔🤔🤔
They talking about the 90’s y’all hate on a man y’all never seen or met in real life
It was nicknamed the "Leastern Conference" 😂 Then for dude to team up with his only competition will forever be the weakest shit in the history of the world. And STILL only won 2 of 4 chips 🤦🏾
I agree. But I think only people who did not see the NBA during Jordan's era or people who don't truly understand basketball or team sports would ever say Jordan faced less competition in the Finals.
@@TeeWalkWade/Bosh were literally getting bounced in the first round they were no competition to lebron Paul pierce and the Celtics were the biggest competition for lebron and please stop acting like the knicks/pacers were some legendary teams the pistons were mj biggest challenge I won’t say bird and the Celtics because mj never beat them
You just straight trippin if you got ANYBODY over MJ 😂 MJ=🐐
Joe Budden is nuts!!!!
Why doesn’t Stephen A ever talk about Jorden getting swept twice in the first round of the playoffs? Always mentioning the Mavs. Keep that same energy