WARNING Prolonged Exposure May Damage Hearing | Fan Showdown S4E2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.พ. 2022
- Lately the some of the fans being submitted to the fan showdown have been gear driven fans. To be honest sometimes the performance of these fans is shocking. Today we have a new take on the gear driven fan, this design takes the single fan offered on the A12x25 and changes it into 6 smaller fans. Will it work, will it move air, I don’t know but today we find out.
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That worked pretty much how I expected it would. Maybe even better lol.
It was lots of fun though and I’m glad I could participate! Some of the more complex designing I’ve done in a while.
Hopefully I didn’t damage your ears too bad!
The Duplicator needs gap filling bearings
Hoppees
i loved it! the biggest change i’d make is some bearings for the gear shafts, it’s a super fun design, though! i was thinking during the video that that and staggered-height fans might allow for longer blades and smoother movement.
What about helical cut gears, instead of straight cuts?
The little fans need a shroud. I think not having it made the air disperse a lot.
Also could some blades(2~4) be added to the main gear? Just not as big as a normal fan. Half of the space being used by those blades and half by the gears.
There are many ways to approach this design haha
It just needs more oil to make it quieter. About a gallon in a bucket would do. Great fun fan.
I love how this series went from who can make the best fan to who can make a fan
I guess you could say we’re all fans.. sorry lol
not just make the fan but reinvent the fan entirely
Something almost entirely unlike a fan
Not a fan the COOLEST fan
Get it because fans cool stuff😂😂😂😂
9:30 the Spinning Duct is labeled "Duplicator", just to quell any potential confusion
Happens quite often too
one could say he... duplicated that name.
"What way is the spinning duct fan blowing?"
Spinning duct fan: "Yes."
Even the "bad flow" fans are super gimmicky and really fun to see, with the craziest ideas.
I'm loving this series
I'm most impressed with the missing blade fan; it still pushes reasonable air, is not crazy loud, and is shockingly well balanced given its wonky appearance. Great job Marnix!
Thats the power of calculus. I'm assuming they used calculus, I would hate to try to solve that problem with trial and error.
I love how the smoke was even like, "no way am I getting close to that loud fan."
Those back swept blades on the falchion seemed to make quite smooth airflow. Not sure if it is the fences or the blade direction not funneling all the air towards the middle like a forward swept blade.
I always forget if you are using the stock a12x25 fan or the 3D printed fan for the standings. If the injection molded, smoothed, production quality one, then I think you should change it out for a 3D printed version just to keep finish quality from affecting standings.
I also would like to see how it translates into cooling performance. Center moving air vs uniform flow. Although i guess the straightener on the cheater showed it improves it. I also would like to see 3d printed noctua and t33 as reference on the board.
He did an episode a while back discussing surface finish. It has no measurable effect outside the margin of error.
Weight of the blade would matter though.
iirc He did do a 3d printed a12x25 and it had almost no performance difference.
Quite confident that the fences are the main reason the falchion doesn't act as a centrifugal blower.
I love that the duplicator is above the NIOSH recommended exposure limit for noise.
I got into 3D printing because of this show. Got my first printer a month ago, an Anycubic Mono X, and I'm loving the 3D print life.
Highly recommend looking into a fdm style printer in addition to a resin printer (something like an ender 3 v2, ender 3 s1, or ender 2 pro might be worth taking a look at for a first fdm printer)
Amazing choice I have the same printer and I love it!
I was waiting on money, but now I have practice at least.
@@zzace00 sorry, fdm style?
@@3CODKing fused deposition modeling - the kind of printer like the ender 3 that melts plastic filament and deposits it layer by layer, as apposed to the resin printers like Daniels Anycubic Mono that uses resin in a bath and uses UV light to set the plastic.
I kinda love the sound of the missing blade, sounds like a prop plane
i'd like to see a leaderboard according to sound, or maybe have a cfm per db ratio
yeah, that would be a nice addition!
yes cfm per db is the best way imo, but also perceived loudness through tones is just as important
Super happy with how my fan performed! And great explanation of the function of the fences on airplane wings!
Always a good day when a new Fan Showdown episode comes out and I'm already looking forward to the next!
Two quick notes for anyone designing a gear fan based on my research and experience designing the contra (+the update I'm working on)
First the distance I used from the top of the motor to the underside of the frame was 2.5mm based on the prior video this seem to be a good ball park figure to keep in mine to avoid parts rubbing.
Second, gears with smaller teeth at a higher tooth count should produce less noise. For the contra I played it safe with straight cut gears and a module of 1 but in some recent test prints I've gotten gears with a 30 degree helix and a module of 0.5 to print beautifully on a 0.4 print head so getting noise down to a "reasonable" level might be achievable
Spur gears are inherently noisy which is why older gear boxes in cars & trucks make a lot of noise and why vehicle makers moved to helical cut gears in the late 50s early 60s. Many still left 1st, 2nd and reverse as spur cut and this is evident when cars/trucks of this vintage move off or back up.
Parson's turbine put into a Royal Navy ship used Helical cut gears for this reason. The noise would have been unbearable plus Helical cut distribute load better across the teeth reducing gear stripping. Effectively two teeth are engaged at once whereas a spur cut gear hops from one tooth to the next. As you note, smaller teeth make less noise simply because the 'hop' is smaller. More precision can help too.
The Spinning Duct kinda looks like a restaurant's Hood Exhaust Fan system. What if we made one as a case fan, since they obviously do a great job at getting air out of an area?
the missing fan blade method is a method currently employed by many automakers, and was used as early as the 1950's on radiator fans to change the audio profile to something less annoying and choppy. it actually works, and moves just as much air as if the fan blade was there.
Ah yes! This is indeed true! I remembered again thanks to you
Pretty sure another fan did a similar thing. Maybe in season 1.
These clockpunk fans are cool even if not really practical.
the spinny duct fan makes me wonder how well a cone shaped fan would work, with the small end of the cone being the intake. it seems to be throwing a good deal of air back out and i think it must be because of the angled part at the blades acting with centrifugal force.
A nozzle of sorts could work
Yes, seems to me he rotated it the wrong way-
Definitely seems it needs to be reversed. Look at how a rocket nozzle is designed for Instance. I bet it would perform decently well.
Exactly, Spin the other way and it will perform much better.
I love seeing the progression in the quality of your videos, and all the little things you constantly refine or try out big props 👍👍
Two things: the missing blade fan sounds amazing (from the perspective of a musician (who doesn't have to listen to it all day long)). And the duplicator is amazing - it looks like a special effect entry into the fan showdown. Maybe not optimal performance, but that airflow is wild.
The Duplicator gear fan is way, way louder than the air compressor in my shop! I don't think I have time to work on it, but for me it would be super interesting to design the quietest fan possible that still moves air well (like about as well as the reference fan).
First time on your channel, but I LOVE the use of the fog machine to test the air flow! Very creative!
I'm no physicist but the "spinny thingy" appears to work against itself as the centrifugal energy is forced backwards in the cone/duct. It would be interesting to see the inverse of the cone where it used the CF to assist in moving the air through the fan by creating more of a vacuum aft making the air to "want" to flow through duct faster. Just some thoughts. Awaiting patiently.
Woah, it's been a season since I've watched an episode. Your tests have gotten much more sophisticated. That's great.
Spinny Duct, like the last iteration of that idea, keeps trying to act as a centrifugal pump. Perhaps time to abandon that idea. Missing Blade sounds like a variant of the uneven spaced blade idea for noise reduction. The Falchion is rather quiet given that anyone who owns an EVGA 10 series GPU could tell you about how loud the back swept fan blade design on them can get!
Duplicator gets no comment from me other than that it makes my teeth itch how loud it is for so little airflow.
lean all the way into that and go for the housed fan arrangement.
@@AndrewFrink That's essentially The Cheater.
@@EinhanderSn0m4n okay, so take the Cheater one step farther and apply deLaval nozzle principals to it.
Or you could reverse the blades on the Spinny Duct so the blades push the air in the same direction as the centrifugal forces. But even then I feel the spinning duct idea isn't that promising. To high a load on the bearings in the fan motor is just part of the problem.
The design could however probably be adapted to be used as the cone part of the Cheater. It would be interesting to see three different configurations for this. Just the cone, the cone with the blades as they currently are and the cone with the blades reversed. With the blades retained in the cone they would act as a stator for the actual fan. However usually the stator is placed on the outlet side of the fan. So it would be interesting to see if adding a stator on the intake improves or decrease the performance and is so what it does for the noise.
Edit: Yes the missing blade fan changes the frequency spectrum for the noise, and that's why some fans has had uneven blade geometry. Instead of one sharp spike in the frequency graph the noise is supposedly spread out over a wider spectrum, but with less energy in any one frequency that what you get with evenly spaced fan blades. And the frequency graph seems to support this.
@@martindinner3621 De Laval nozzles are exclusively for supersonic flow or pressures exceeding a few entire atmospheres of pressure. If your fan setup is generating supersonic flows or massive pressures, something absolutely bugfuck insane is going on and you need to show it to Pratt and Whitney or Aerojet Rocketdyne.
I really want to see some of the top fans pitted against THEMSELVES, traditionally printed vs resin printed. It'd be super cool to see how a smoother surface changes performance
I absolutely love what you're doing with this show, keep up the amazing work!
this video is exactly what i love about "crowdsourced" solutions over stuff generated by people at mit. i came to this channel for the 3d printing, stayed for the fan fan competitions (who knew id be interested in such a thing?) and im learning about lateral airmass movement during an aircraft stall.
This series has come so far, just amazing
Thanks for printing my fan! I designed the spiny duct and seeing the test results and reading the comments gave me some great ideas. I redesigned it to have a smaller inlet and larger outlet. Also reduced the weight by almost 80% so it should spin much faster. Hoping V2 performs much better than V1.
I bet the Spinny Duct would do pretty well if mirrored or run in reverse....
Wow, the Duplicator looked pretty funny! I knew it wouldn't perform well but it is still quite entertaining to see these funny, overengineered shapes, especially the geared ones, working at least a little!
Few suggestions to the duplicator: I think if you added some thin clacking strips and a striker, add the smoke machine and turned the fan to a random pulse you have yourself an automatic New Years Cela-tron 2000 lol.
Highest production fan showdown show on the dang TH-cams !!! Great episode man, thanks for all your hard work !
Wow, 2 impressive fans for sure! I love seeing what people can come up with. I just wonder what would happen if the blades were extended to the end of the SpinnyDuct, but have the fan blades taper off the closer they get to the edge of the duct. And man, the Duplicator! While it didn't set any records at all, it is still very impressive! I'm just curious if it's because the fan blades all spin the same way. The trick would be to figure out how to get every other fan hub to spin the opposite way, similarly to how some of the GPU's have one set of fins and hub setup to spin the opposite direction. That in itself may be a feat for someone to take on. I don't care if it finished last, I don't care if it was loud. It put a smile on my face, and I'm glad you do the smoke test, because I was wondering what the air flow looked like.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Keep up the great work! I do enjoy the weekly uploads, and I always look forward to them.
Cheers!
7:06 Do it in a diagonal order, to make it more balanced. Same thing is done on car wheels.
I feel like the fan gears should be helical due to them having less resistance and being quieter. It's worth a test.
Edit: also some small electronics gear oil would be great for sound reduction.
The Duplicator's gears need to be MUCH finer. It need about 3 to 4 times the current teeth number. Then, making them chevron type will also help reducing the noise level.
Would also help to have a second brace on the rear of the frame to better stabilize the gears against the hub.
I hope next season your able to add some sort of back pressure for realistic fan testing some fans I would perform better some shall perform worse when a radiator or heat sync is added.
Thanks for the continued enjoyment
spinnyduct needs its blades reversed for it to work, alot of the smoke looked to be hitting the skirt and get flung back the way it came
You should release a supercut of every smoke test to use as a visualizer while listening to music and working!
if that spinning duct fan had impeller pegs at the angle shift point, it would kick off that airflow adhering to the sides of the outside of the duct, just something i learned from another TH-camr, airflow will stick to surfaces and with the taper going backwards, it's effectively flowing air backwards on the outside of the duct.
Some older truck engines included cooling fans with asymmetrical blade spacing to change the harmonics of the airflow noise
I wonder if the spinny duct was so turbulent because it was producing magnus effect?
Not just its spinning. You could see it slapping air back out the mouth with how much it wobbled.
Got to love the name change half way through the video the spiny duct turned into the duplicator during the smoke test
The Spinny duct being tapered has centripetal forces working against it and pushing air out the front starving the blades, if anything the taper should be the opposite, narrower the further out that would accelerate the air to the blades.
I wish I could thumb up this episode TWICE :D I'm watching the Fan Showdown from its beginning, and I'm still surprised how creative are the submitters!
Oooh, you brought back the spin-up shot for one fan, nice, thanks! Also thanks for putting CF(P)M in big text right below (L)FPM. But can I just ask: Why the quotation marks around the CFM figure? It's like you think that's kind of a fake number. What did you mean for real: parentheses (or even no punctuation)?
The spiny duct isn't a Velocity Stack, at least not as designed there. A velocity stack has a few distinct features, namely, the leading surface is curved to act like an airfoil and accelerate air into the mouth (via high/low pressure differences), and also has a progressive taper to the inlet.
Pretty sure the straight sides in this design was one contributing factor in the air not wanting to enter (another reason, as someone else mentioned, could be Magnus Effect... although that might the proper name for what I was pointing out? haha 😊😅)
Missing blade is the most impressive, low noise and high cfm's
I love what did you did with the smoke with the duplicator. lol
I love these complex designs. Got me thinking about contra rotating gear hubs for things like drones. Would they make thrust more efficiently assuming they are balanced, clearances and lubed properly? 🤔
Should've made the center gear a helical gear so it also moves a little bit of air. Wouldn't have made a huge difference but it would probably be worth something.
I was thinking that too, but then the smaller gears would have to turn the other way, possibly nullifying any benefit of the helical gear.
However, helical gears might make it quieter.
or a harringbone gear
How do you know so much about air force stuff and planes and flight and whatnot?? Im impressed, and love learning interested tid bits when i watch!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Hey uhh... Where can I go to get the sound of these fans alone?
I think the noise would add some character to the sounds I make in abelton.
The white noise sound from the missing blade 🤤😍
I wonder if you flipped the blade orientation or used it in exhaust would The Duct one work better since the blades are definitely oriented in the opposite way as in a push configuration instead of pull like you assumed.
5:45 I enjoy that your reaction to "I need this part to be very slightly higher" is "let's 3d print 1/8th of this model and use it as spacers" instead of, y'know, finding a couple of washers.
Interesting. Each mini fan had that classic tornado like intake with more testing and getting them to not interfere with each other this could be an interesting design
Some cars use a fan blade set-up somewhat like the "missing blade" for their radiator fans, with the blades unevenly spaced but balanced. This setup results in a less harmonized or droning sound which is more pleasant over long duration (at least to the test audiences).
I love the random touch of Herb Albert in the intermission.
The creativity of this community never ceases to amaze me.
Curious if alternating the pitch on the duplicators blades push/pull might help move air around better
the ducted fan has a wobble the sound it makes is it hitting the frame of the fan rig, and that slow smoke on the geared fan was perfect
the filament is less of a yellow and more of a Shrek green. I love it!
That crossplane growl of the missing blade fan. Nice..
have you tried to install a velocity stack on the intake side ? with a proper trumpet.
in car intakes it helps amazingly so, I think 290-340 cfm, it's pretty crazy.
What song is playing for the fan demos?? (9:31)
Love it!
The effect of centrifugal force is so often overlooked. If the blade in The Spinning Duct were canted the other way it would probably do an amazing job at blowing the air the other way.
I feel like if the spinning duct is made with a bit of a better angle of attack on the blades, it might perform quite well
Random fun fact. if you get a light meter, there is a theater trick where if you get just the right amount of fog, everything looks like it's underwater.
I only mention this because you play with fog enough, you could just do your closings "underwater" occasionally for giggles
The Spinning Duct seems to create an internal vortex that plugs up the hole rather than assisting flow like a duct stack normally does.
It's amazing to see where your channel started and where it is now. You and the participants are truly mad scientists. For science!
As a man who thinks about aeronautical engineering almost constantly, I think this just became my new favorite channel! Thank you for these videos!
I’d be curious to see how different lengths of intake ducts affect airflow - so for a given fan design, how does it help performance if you add a 10mm long intake? 20mm? 50mm? Like how much would it take to notice an effect, and would that be a reasonable sized mod for a normal PC?
Been watching this challenge long enough to see that some designs are getting seriously good. And some are seriously weird! :-) It would be interesting to see if any fan makers are watching this series and taking notes.
I like the falchion design, I bet it would outperform the reference fan if you could get the weight down and up to the full 2k rpm.
Also it would be really interesting to see how much power each of these designs draws. Think we could slap a power meter on for future tests?
Oh my God, I couldn't stop laughing at the duplicator smoke test, this is so much fun.
Could we ask how the math was done to workout the extra material, I imagine the calculations to accurately predict and engineer are pretty spectacular
#suggestion 1) it seems for most designs (but not crazy ones...) you can try to check same cooler with different amount of blades. It is quite interesting how blades impact on the overall performance. 2) also you need another top list for cases 3) consider adding more top lists by most important factors
The stubby propellers on that noisy boi reminds me of the propellers on the XF-84 Thunderscreech, the loudest plane ever.
I'm wondering, since the spinning duct, uh, spins the duct, is there something weird like the Coandă effect happening, meaning air near the surface of the duct is pushed back out?
Its potentially not the coandă effect, but its the only thing that is coming to mind right now
Think I might try and design a fan for this contest. Though be warned my fans are going to be optimized for RESIN printing
The unusual sound quality of the MFBBSB is what's termed "octave reinforcement" in acoustics.
Because the gap between the heavy blade pair is twice that of the gap between all other pairs, the frequency of sound it generates is a whole octave lower. Although it's a much weaker wave than the wave an octave up, the higher frequency supports the lower one, and assists our ears in picking it out, so you end up with an overall effect that your ear is *receiving* sound that is very similar to most fans, but is *perceiving* a much lower tone.
To my ear, this also makes the fact that there is any tuned pitch at all much more obvious.
That missing blade fan has a very relaxing sound.
What ware you using to make the thick smoke?
For the missing blade... Static balance is different from dynamic balance... I'm curious how it performs...
Might be worth testing the fan's flow at various speeds (c. low/700, med/1200, max)? I wonder about designs like the 'Falchion' at low RPM.
10:38 - At first when the smoke approached the 'Duplicator' multi fan system, there was definitely a "NOPE!" moment.. Hahahaha 🤔🤣🤣🤣 😎🇬🇧
9:32 Oh man, I cant wait for the next season of Aboard in Japan feat. Major Hardware
I kinda love the sound of the missing blade, sounds like a prop plane🤣🤣🤣
I would like to see you continue to test the cooking power like you use to in addition to the new CFM test. Can you please test the top 5 from each season in the same format to see who the true winner is since each season is slightly different test formats.
I'm loving your music!
Hmm, I would think that a diffuser on the back of the blade would decrease performance significantly, but I guess I'll have to watch the video to find out! 😁
I like how he says we lost alot of f-100's to the saber dance but not the pilots.... lol
Lurker here, but I had a thought (super late, I know, I'm playing catch up) on the Spinny Duct. I'm wondering if the chaotic turbulence is due to the shroud/duct/cone being a part of the fan? I'm curious if we would see better performance if the shroud was separate and static
I wonder how the duct would do if there were some small fins added to the inside to overcome the centrifugal spin it's adding to the air pushing it back out the front.
u know what I am missing with all this is the e-current used snd how much air is moved at that e-current at this test to put it into a perspective how efficient thise fans are
does anyone know what the fan test song is? everytime I hear it I think of living in a box
The large ducted fan is a cool idea, but more mass equals more slowerer. But really, the friction from the ring moving seems ot throw the air away not help draw it in, ideally we want to turn that Kinetic energy of the fan to velocity in the through the fan direction not so much radial velocity. Other cool thing i learned: The fans can add velocity, pressure, and head. You can have all three or any one, but thats what fans and pumps do.
That filament colour looks so nice om curved shapes