Turning a PC fan Into a JET Engine | Fan Showdown S5E4
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- Sometimes the things you all come up with are mind blowing. In todays new episode of the fan showdown we have a fan who blade angle automatically adjust to optimize performance. A fan who takes its inspiration from a jet engine and an underdog who takes the cake.
Tecsonar Silk Dual Color PLA
amzn.to/3IQ61wu
My Twitch
/ majorhardware
Fan Showdown Instructions
• EVERYTHING you need to...
Fan Dims
www.thingiverse.com/thing:455...
Submit your design (at least .STL file)
fanshowdown@gmail.com
Cameras used.
BlackMagic Pocket cinema 6k pro
amzn.to/3m2RLVw
Reddit
/ fanshowdown - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Someone needs to let @RealCivilEngineerGaming know that an architect has taken the top spot in an engineering design challenge.
Don't tell him. He'll have an aneurism.
@@kasai7272 Maybe he will need to make a fan using the strongest shape.
@@n1elkyfan Someone has already done that if I am remembering correctly.. It completely sucked at sucking.
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name....🎁🎁🎁
And today, and faaaaan review.
i dont like the idea of arbitrarily stifling creativity and innovation so if someone has something cool i dont care if they already had one fan on the show what if that second fan is amazing and revolutionizes the future of fan blade technology but because maybe he sent in a meme fan and you used it first it just doesnt get to see the light of day
As long as your not the one guy who sent in like 53
Yes. But also there's always someone who ruins everything. So maybe some rules should apply.
Now I wish I would have put my comment underneath your comment to give it more clout
Agree 100%
@@_sticks_ No more than 3 seems reasonable.
You can probably use a strobe light on that variable-pitch fan to capture the images
That is an excellent idea, cyclical stuff can be stroboscoped to "slow" it down.
Or take a flash image at various RPMs. The flash is super short, so the shutter speed won't really matter as long as it's not shorter than the camera's flash sync speed. Manual flashes lets you adjust the duration of the flash too for more or less light, so it won't be video, but you get to see how the angle is at least.
came here to say just that. stroboscope + slowmo cam would probably get the job done good enough
@@Alexandra-Rex nah, use a strobe and get it adjusted so the moving part stops moving to your eyes, then just video the whole process. Take photos from the video
Props to Harold Edgerton.
I really liked the shot of all 4 fans doing the smoke test was really cool to see them all.
I think most of us just want to see the best and most interesting fans. While it's valuable to limit submissions to let more people participate, if someone submits another deserving fan then we'd like to see it. The way you're already doing it seems right. I'd also be okay if designers got a second chance with a fan that needed design improvements, such as the multi-stage fan here.
With the multi running at half the RPM, it'd be interesting for a redesign to run at full speed.
If you shortened the blades slightly so they were the proper length at speed, that would probably do the trick.
@@CharlesGriswold that would help with interference, but as the blades deflect that would also drastically alter their pitch.
The design would need to have a slightly tighter curve in - tip of blade closer to hub - vs shortening. Shortening wont do good, but keeping same thinness and accounting for the flex (like real turbines...though combination of material is what they do).
Just a few tweaks, once printed a quick sanding should be enough to continue…
But not having to do post processing work is the goal of the submissions.
@@CharlesGriswold Easier to just add a perimeter ring to the blades, that stops the deflection and should also theoretically be better for sound as well.
993 designer here. Wow that's a lot louder than I expected 🤣maybe forcing air through those small openings caused it.
still love that design
@@MajorHardware I am curious if the fans that are being tested are RPM throttled or if they are allowed to go full out? Basically wondering if any of the sub 48dBA fans running at less than 2k RPM could be pushed to 2K RPM and then what their sound profile would be as well as the FPM/CFM statistics. Seeing as how some of those fans still have quite a bit of RPM distance to gain on the Noctua if they would end up being better or worse than it or their current standings on the leader board.
@@dracconis69 they're running at 100% except fans like the the jet engine where if they're contacting any shroud he'll try to limit the speed so they're actually useful in testing. only limitation on rpm is the fan it's self(weight, drag, etc). think it was season 2 he tried limiting them to a specific db but to many people whined about it so he's just kept it at 100%.
@@sirmonkey1985 Basic fan controllers only let you adjust the percentage of the fan's own max speed, they don't take specific RPM goals. So for most people there is no realistic meaning to RPM-throttling, because that would be different percentage for each tested fan.
@@KimonFrousios it would be cool if he built a teststand that was configured to constant RPM.
that would give new design requirements for a new season.
My dad owns a 993 and I immediately noticed that the fan sounds so similar to the real thing. Although I don't think it sounds annoying at all at least in the car and in your recording but I could just be used to it :)
Dont forget the fact that in a car there is also a engine making noise
@@TimsVideoArchief true but listening to the running car with the hood open I think the fan is actually "very" loud and noticeable
@@TimsVideoArchief exactly, and the fan noise when revving up mixed with engine is just pure pleasure for most car folks :) and you get noticed more :D but not when gaming ;)
The bigger one will be lower in pitch, which helps a lot.
@@Llohr Came here to say the same thing. Since the car fan is larger with larger holes on the front, which I'm sure help contribute to the unique sound, the pitch should be lower. The lower pitch should be far less annoying.
My mind is blown! I'm so thrilled to call myself a fan showdown number one!!!
I loved the way yours looked too, and it had a tighter exhaust compared to the rest, so it really did some magical airflow tricks lol. Congrats on placing 1st, it must be a thrilling feeling knowing that you were the one to design a fanblade to take number 1 for sure!
@@morpheon_xyz thank you so much! "Cool looking" is one of my top design criteria. I was also pretty impressed with the tightness of spiral
@@avanmater If it was cool with 11 blades... imagine how much cooler it would be with 13! At least 18%
@@clintonsavage4018 if only it we're that simple. It would be neat to graph the difference between 5,7,9,11, 13... Blades.
I would love it if when a fan like yours took the top spot, he did an episode with a few variations, so we could see what worked and what could still be improved upon. Maybe do 7 and 9 blade versions at the same blade pitch and do another 2 with 11 blades at slightly different pitches or something along those lines.
I recently watched a show on analyzing airflow. there is a neat thing you can do on the cheap that will look cool and reveal a lot. When doing the smoke test, turn out the lights and use a laser level vetically. It will cut a slice of the air and highlight it with the use of less smoke.
Solid suggestion!
That's a really cool idea.
I noticed awhile ago that the “best” fans almost always have either 7 or 9 blades, so the 11 blade idea seems legit. Can’t wait to see how these all perform
Same with hydraulic pumps. Odd numbers
Not just odd numbers, prime numbers. 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17... It avoids resonance when in use.
@@jasonmajere2165 bingo. I’m an engineer for a engine dynamometer manufacturer. Everything we do is tied to prime numbers as well…eg rotor and stator both have a prime number of blades (7 and 11) for efficiency.
Since air behaves like a liquid, the same principles apply.
@@AdamBaczyk prime numbers reduce harmonics. 9 blades is a bit of an anomaly.
@@JMurph2015 9 is probably chosen as it splits the difference between 7 and 11. There are some situations where 7 is too few, but 11 is too many. The Noctua fan is a great example of this. Their fans are designed around the blade geometry, so altering their shape to fit with a prime number of blades around the hub with the desired blade gaps conflicts with that goal. So instead they find some number that more closely hits their design goals while still avoiding any harmonics with the 4 posts of the fan hub supports.
Every season I am always simultaneously amused and amazed by the fact that "Eh, I'm just messing about" fans always seem to come out on top meanwhile the carefully engineered ones lag behind.
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
I wonder how well the angel could do if the build quality and tolerance were as tight as the noctua
Edited for spelling
Hell YEAH been waiting for new fans lol loving your enthusiasm in these videos.
"Exception" allow as many as someone can come up with "as long as they are seemingly different.
But I would suggest not allowing two+ from one individual on the same show.
I say the angel should be one of those fans that gets picked up by an actual fan company. I would totally buy it!
It is fine to have multi-submission like MK's. Feel free to decide your rules. Would like to see the Variable in different RPMs and how the blade pitch is affected by it? Thank you.
Yeah! All we want is cool creative fans, if one person has several good ideas, show'em!
I am impressed Andy did surprisingly well for the first try despite having zero fan design experience. He indeed have done his homework well.
993 also has 6 horizonally opposed pistons firing.. you hear the fan, but not nearly as loud as you think. at idle hardly audible over the engine. revving it up you hear every other sound but not the much of the fan
thanks for the update one day i'll own a porsche ...one day
All impressive fans with good patterns. but the Angel just felt like it pulled air remarkably well, I always say if there's fog on the other side they probably didn't do well. while they all did well the Angel moved the air the furthest in my opinion and looked like an early winner.
Theres also the way how the smoke look almost linear on how they flow. Its not going up like the 993, and its not going down like the Variable. Just a straight vortex.
The Multistage one could be interesting with either a ring or meatier blades, just to see if it was held back by the limited fan speed.
It definitely was. The speed where it made contact with the housing seemed to be about 2/3 of full whack. That's a lot of fan performance left on the table.
G'day Major & Andy,
Very impressed with Andy's Angel, not only did it perform very well moving air but also doing it without Shouting,
very deserving of 🥇1st being very close to the A12 in both performance & volume
The two stage needs a redesign and revisit!!
Also you should do some cleanup on the fans little bits of filament can make a quiet fan really loud.
The 993 sounds like a typical automotive fan honestly 🤣
For the camera, if you’re just checking the deflection angle of the blades in motion, you might not need high-speed.
Two possible techniques:
- take a picture. With extra light if possible (ie: convince it to use a faster shutter speed (a proper camera may even let you select exposure time directly)
- shine a light through the fan - how much light gets through at any given point will depend upon pitch angle.
7:40 A cool suggestion, pun intended 😂 I think you should post a bonus episode at the end of each season where you/designer tweak the fans that have print and interference issues so they work correctly to give them a better chance! The turbine design is sick and it would be cool to see it perform its best, I’m sure some of the creators would love to be able to fix tolerances/blade thickness if it means they could improve performance. Plus, each time something like this happens I’m always left wondering what could’ve been 😂 love all your vids, keep it up!
I love the idea of it being a bonus end of season episode. Keeps it from swamping submissions, limits people to one second chance, but still gives us the chance to see the designs "as intended".
@@Ylyrra agree. maybe do a viewer vote for 4 or 5 fans from that season that didn't work as intended to see them corrected and retested in an end of season finale/bonus episode or something. i know he's done it with a few fans per viewer request if the creator resubmitted a fixed design.
I could increase the distance between top of the rotor and the bottom of the stator, and thicken the blades toward the center
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name....🎁🎁🎁
Real unsung hero in these fans, the brushless motor, the magnets & the electricity / though props for researching fan designs to make something cool happen & sharing the ideas here so many can see & listen & learn to become inspired hopefully
8:11 Another takeaway:
IF you decide to keep the blades thin, and especially if the blades are curved, make them shorter than they needs to be, because they WILL straighten up & become longer when the fan rotates at some 1'000's revolutions per minute.
It's not just a matter of length (that's what she said), they're pushing air - so they'll deflect along the axis of the fan too, and contact the stators, and that's going to be even more of a problem for even a minor connection.
@@Ylyrra Yes, but I was not referring to this specific design, but designs in general.
But it is a good point to bring up, and important to think about if the fan needs to spin in a confined space.
Shorter and with more curvature. That way when the fan reaches max speed and the blades deflect out, they deflect into optimal position instead of deflecting into a less efficient position.
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
I feel like the essence of the show is showing off cool and efficient designs. If someone sends a second submission different than the previous one and also interesting enough to be feature, they definitely deserve to be featured.
So cool looking designs this time in the showdown. Kudos to Andy for the sweet looking and well performing Angel design.
Awesome line up of fans, kudos to everyone! Great episode to, love your editing, always on point, always a few lols. Oh, IMO if someone submits more than one design worth testing, by all means test them!
That filament is beautiful! Missed your channel for some time since I reset my phone, but I'm kinda stoked to be back since these are honestly always interesting.
Congrats Andy on nailing on your first try, I did expect a store attached to the design but anyway congrats,
also i loved the jet engine one , i think had the blades been thicker and the shroud big enough to compensate for the deflection it would have been really cool.
Only allow second submission if it is truly something really out there and unique.
Might be worth looking in to the effect of torque induced friction on any future “self-correcting” fans, namely how over tightening can provide additional friction to somewhat control how quickly the blades react to their motion, or reduce the amount of movement
I would be interested in seeing a corrected version of the multi stage. Maybe a s5e4.5 hehe
Or a season dedicated to improved versions of past designs. Fan Showdown: The Next Iteration
It would likely help to use a resin printer instead of the standard 3D printer. Stronger material and it'll turn out much smoother.
Also the turbine blades are far too few, the compressor part of a jet engine (which this is based on) has a lot more blades which are always a prime number and offset from each other. (The reason for the prime number is because it stops a resonance from forming)
Wow the Angel is super impressive. I really didn't think anyone would beat Antonio for at least a few episodes. The Multi Stage definitely looked cool running and was very quiet. The 993 did sound like an angry radiator fan. Would also definitely be cool to find out what angle the Variable liked and reprint it without the screws set to the angle found. Fun episode!
Great delivery man, this is fun stuff
re: Sound Test - most notable to me was right off the the bat, the Angel _sounded like a plane propeller!_ 🤘
*But then* came the 993, where _IT_ sounded just like a car's electric coming fan! (same way that semi-truck inspired fan did)
I just love it when stuff scales like that 😊
My god, an Architect managed to Engineer a good fan! My mind is blown.
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁..
I like your new view of the 4 fans blowing at the same time at the end of the smoke test!
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
A big THANK YOU for sharing this valuable information with objective data.
Was very interesting this one…
Great job Angel
I think the Angel's 11 blades work well for the same reasons gear sets are made with teeth in prime numbers. The first harmonic would be the product of both the pinion and gear. The higher that number the less frequently the same 2 teeth make contact, thus making the wear across all teeth even. Also fewer reinforcing harmonic frequencies.
The filament worked well on the fans this time. Some of the previous dual colour weren't special, but this one was nice when you see them spinning.
It would be interesting to do the jet thing and sand the tips of the blades so much that at full speed they didn't touch, to see how it performed then. Kind of like the SR71 that won't stop leaking until it's at a certain height. The blades won't work properly until they're at the full speed.
That mixed flow/ jet design looks cool
the way i noticed i could see fan blades while they were spinning is with a bunch of light from flashlights/spotlights and having shutter speed set really low (even on a phone) with whatever ISO needed to compensate for light
Former P-car tech here. I loved working on the 964/993 series of cars. They were definitely the pinnacle of air-cooled engine tech. It was thought that the cut-outs on the inside of the fan hub was to reduce rotating mass. Also behind the fan there was a duct to run air to the alternator to keep it cool. The sound of the 964/993 fan is pretty iconic, and spooling up near peak power RPM, it's incredibly efficient. In fact, every generation has a bit of a unique sound. My favorite was the 908 vertical fan.
Another good show, love the colored printing.
I really liked the 4-panel comparison of the flow!
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
Mmm that 4 way comparison shot was beautiful 😍
The bat style trailing edge is what helps quite the sound.
1. Get that high speed camera.
2. Increase submission application tests (when applicable).
3. Thank you Professor Hardware.
I love the videos and the 4K60 quality
regarding catching the blade angles, maybe try something from the camera world: try your high speed camera mode + manually trigger a camera flash (maybe from an oldschool "analog" flash unit) to try to stop the motion. and/or a strobe light if that was successful
Its cool how similar the fans that are just scaled down car fans really sound similar to just a car with its fan running while it's idle.
I like the idea of the Variable. The sound, as far as I can hear it with YT is nearly perfect - at least for me.
@Major_Hardware.1 thanks, spammer
I think if you run across particularly noteworthy fans like you've done here it's good to include them, even if they are from a designer that's already had a fan appear in the season.
This season has been amazing in the leaderboard, now we have a new leader on the board and a good idea of what makes a good fan
The fans in this episode are godly
The angel is the winner...imagine that. *Grins*. And If you are wondering why I'm grinning, as an aerospace guy I can tell you he created the perfect quiet fan using all the tricks we use. Ribbed top surface, variable trailing edge feathering, and drip edge with high number of blades.
Note I said " quiet.". You can get more performance if you remove the quiet features.
Also because you are using pla plastic instead of metal, tighter non flex tolerances can be achieved if you encase the blade tips to a solid ring to reinforce shape. This also reduces blade tip pressure loss due to the gap between blades and housing.
The gap on real turbines is incredibly small because efficiency losses climb quickly with gaps between housing and blade.
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁..
Dang, I already felt like the eddies in the Angel exhaust were indicative of something, but seeing those results... it manages amazing numbers with less RPM than the Noctua. I actually was very much impressed!
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name....🎁🎁🎁
One of the best episodes yet, really interesting fans this time.
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name....🎁🎁🎁
Yes the fans in 911s do sound like that, the earlier ones with strait blades are even louder than swept blade variants, to be fair they are pretty quiet on idle, and at high rpm you can hear them but the engine does a pretty good job drowning the fan out, it's very noticeable when you get off the throttle though.
that filament is beautiful
The one frame of the jet engine exploding before the ads was great lmao
I would absolutely buy the angel if the design gets sold. Looks gorgeous and that cfm is great.
Congrats on a new first-placer this season!
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
Love the fan show down! Ever thought of remaking the Noctua and using that as a reference? A storebought vs a 3d printed fan might give a significant difference in results. This might be a better reference point as all others are printed as well.
Maybe the angel with a better suface finish and balance can overcome the Noctua
How has this series not gotten a sponsorship from a fan manufacturer yet?
How about including voltage operated and overall power usage? 💪 Love the show 😁
I'm fine with more than one fan per person as long as they something new or unique. something worth us seeing.
Architect attempts to be an engineer. RCE would be proud.
membrane cantilever flexing is a wonderful thing, even in photon momentum membrane cantilever transistors (ie photon activated bending flex switches)
subliminal suggestions
11:32 The Fan Wizard knows how to "blow"...
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
@10:39 looks amazing!
@Major Hardware I could make the tolerances bigger and thicken the blades of the multistage fan, but it would be helpful if you know where are the blades rubbing, in the sides of the blades (radial deflection) or on top of the blades (axial deflection)
Thanks for watching☝️congrats 🎉 you have been selected among our shortlisted winners 🎁🎁🎁 send a direct message on telegram with my name.....🎁🎁🎁
use a strobe light that you can vary the speed if you need to see high speed stuff such as vibration or in your case, the blade pitch changing.
I would say it's fine to allow a secondary or third submission from a person if they happen to make something so unique, that it's worth showing anyways despite them having already had a fan run in the season.
We need more competitors and episodes per season. 20+ minute videos. Bring it on
Wow that angle one is impressive
Awesome Video
Very interesting content! Curious how much smoothing out the rough surfaces from the print process would make a difference aerodynamically.
you can use a camera stroboscope on an I phone to actual view the pitch change assuming you can match the rpms of the fan, ive done it with a c-130
I say there's no reason to not let someone submit more than one idea. If they're all good enough to get you to try em, good on that person!
Just a note: the more the fans, more the noise, however if you can control each fan individually you can make them oscillate the RPM, so you dont let they run with the same RPM at the same time. Apple did this to the chesse grill mac to be super silent.
Hey have you tried creating a laminar flow setup for your vapour? An array of straws or 3d printed? Any use having laminar flow to visualise?
Easily my favorite print material so far.
One per season, unless it's a really cool fan
I'd happily see good designs from people that made submissions before.
I'd like to see that 2-stage with it running full speed. Maybe adjust the tolerances a bit so it fits at 100% speed?
I would love to see a collaboration with you and the slow mo guys!
When he talked about needing a high speed camera, I thought the exact same lol
Reprint the multistage with an outer circle on the fan itself to prevent it bending out or just expand it in the Z(? Upward) axis to make it thicker
Multi Stage definitely deserves another shot. Maybe a small bearing housed at the tip of the rotor for keeping it at center and resolving the blades clearance.
I can add more clerance between the rotor and the stator, because they probably bend upwards
these are the best binging videos
I love this show.
I was surprised when the cheater was beaten, now the angel? So cool💨
It would be cool to make a variable pitch fan but have the hub move in and out to actuate the fan blades so the more Force that's placed on the fan the pitch increases based on back pressure
The back pressure may have become a factor in the equilibrium. So a neutral plus angle of attack may be what one is after.
Lol.
On one hand, I'm glad Andy's R&D worked out, but on the other, I'm sad the concept behind the variable didn't work out.