TODAY the CHEATER FALLS……maybe | Fan Showdown S4E5
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The cheater has been number one on the fan showdown since last season. Today one fan made of multiple pieces takes aim at knocking it off the top spot.
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I keep saying, take the top 5-10 fans and put them into the cheater housing. You'll likely get one that beats the cheater at it's own game
Those stationary guide veins that make a huge difference. I bet it would be even better if there was 8 instead of 4
Keep saying it, it is a great idea.
Make that a final shoot-out. Top 10 fans in the housing and see who reigns supreme
I said about the cheater that the game was now to design the best fan for the cheater shroud, and the best cheater shroud.
Agreed and while we're at it as they become bigger and bigger... why not make a "Dual-hub" (tm) fan assembly? Basically add another fan hub behind the 1rst and make it turn blades in counter-rotation, just these 2 should be smaller than the stack of the cheater and really be "cheating" as it would use 2 hubs... But well... After that put the cheater housing on top and see where we at...
And tbh i think 2 hubs could be a more sellable idea...
I been watching little fans suck smoke through them for over a year, and I still love it 👍
Overdrive was losing a lot of airflow at the seams between the fan and shrouds. I wonder if there's significant gains to be had by designing a full enclosure or using gaskets... I mean, the thing already has bearings and gears. Might as well over engineer the thing
It had to much pitch on the blades.
@@TheRattleSnake3145 I tried a design where it was shallower at the top and got steeper towards the bottom. Trying to get blades that are tall with a shallow angle is tricky.
@@static2430 in my design (which sadly wasnt tested (yet)) i tried to solve the issue by eliminating blades when the space got to cramped. I basically had 3 rings where the blade count towards the middle halves every ring to keep roughly the same distance from blade to blade.
Depending on your blade count you could do likewise when going down the main shaft. that way you could decrease the attack angle of the blades and still keep enough space for the air to move through so it wont choke itself.
@@No_Way_NO_WAY that's an interesting idea. I'm leaning towards a multi part assembly for the mk2 model.
you say that like its not already over engineered, dawg its a fan not an alien spaceship 😭
I guess the calculations I did were based on theoretical air movement and not actual air movement!
Guess it's back to the drawing board!
-Nate
(Yes, the overdrive creator)
Good job tho. And the documentation was sexy af
FYI, you beat the A12x25 by 300 rpm for the exact same output and nearly identical dba. Optimize for weight and you'll eat its lunch.
Fitment complexity improvement..because I think this really affecting the whole thingy
@@Lil_Puppy this should be true. would love to see it
honestly i think the gears needed to be run for several hours to properly mesh. shouldn't have added oil on the gears at first.. let them run for a while dry to break them in, then add oil and test. it was getting stuck on starting and i believe it would not if some "self clearancing" had been done first.
Aesthetically these are some of the best-looking fans I've seen on the show.
wow, no mentions of the second to none performing almost the same as the overdrive? I was actually stunned by its performance.
All I know is that I was extremely disappointed to find out that it was not in fact inspired by the M2 Bradley's promotional video
And at a higher rpm than the a12x25 too, I bet a little more blade angle and some more refinement on the airfoil (the trailing edge looks square) would make it even better than the noctua
It was second to one at least...
Honestly expected my Cyber Eye fan to do worse lol. Good to see it in action though!
I can't think of the anime that inspired the fan
That was yours? Heck you have submitted a few haven't ya xD
@@grabindragin3307 kinda looks like the tail of a certain Pokémon
What was the anime?
@@smartestmoronx19 the moment I saw it, I thought of Gurren Lagann, so maybe that
First thing to do if you want a fan that can beat the cheater is arrange the rear shroud supports to align with the motor supports on the fan housing. The overdrive was a big offender of this.
Side note, when doing the smoke test, can you get a shot directly behind the fan? Would be interesting to see how much rotation is in the airstream as it exits.
I laughed immediately when he said it was named emotional damage. Steven He is really funny. If you watch a few of his videos you will get the context of what he means by it.
i was emotionally damaged when he didn't know about Steven He
what does the fan design have to do with it though?
I'm gonna work on my hairdo and fashion to look more like a jet engine for that +5 charisma bump.
You should try using a super high torque high rpm motor from one of the previous videos to make the overdrive break the sound barrier :D
Dang, i was really rooting for the over drive. I wonder if positioning the guides and supports for the parts in line with the original fan housing would have changed anything. Still, it was an excellent attempt!
Thinking the same thing!
That's a good idea. I'll work that into the Mk2.
@@static2430 -- I wonder if the support bars could be made into stators.
@@TlalocTemporal good idea
I think gears create too much friction . Maybe a belt would work better, just needs a good way to keep tension.
My interpretation on Emotional Damage : So some basic context first, the clip comes from the comedy skit video "When Asian is a Difficulty" by Steven He. He's just been roasted by a boss in a game called "Auntie" and gets the death screen Emotional Damage. He proceeds to yell it. The fan will cause you to experience "Emotional Damage" from deciding to print it in the first place and will lead a cascade wich causes you to question every sing one of your life decisions, therefore inflicting "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE" (I'm Asian I love this meme too much)
Now we need a "Failure Management" fan blade
Or a half fan, because the other half...is running a BIZness.
Steven is awesome.
It looked like you were losing some air out the side of the shroud from the crack between it and the noctua frame. Would likely increase the airflow by simply sealing that tiny gap up with electrical tape.
I noticed on the Overdrive there appeared to be leakage between the pieces, it might benefit from some bolts, nuts and gaskets added to the build.
What about resin printing the gears instead? not having those rough edges from normal 3d printing might remove a lot of the friction present when spinning the gears.
or even stick some grease in there lol. would help with noise as well
Congrats on the 200k well done🎉
why did you shift from temp benchmarks to using CFM for the hierarchy. You cant always count on a higher CFM giving better results for cooling a radiator or tower cooler, maybe for a case fan.
Who said season 4 was to design for a radiator?
I suppose it probably isn't but how good these fans are at cooling whether as a case fan or a cooler would be more informative and show them in use. I could design an excellent cooler fan with good static pressure but it would rank much lower because it dosent have a high CFM.
He literally said in s4e1 that he wanted CFM fans for something like a case fan.
@@static2430 didn't even see that.
So glad you're back up and running. I love the fan showdown!
Congrats on 200k! Love your channel.
Every episode I mostly just look forward to that music with the smoke test. Love your work MJ
wow bro, look at you killing it onscreen, keep it up man, im loving the travel were all taking with you, the transforamtion of your room is amasing, its looking better every showdown
This is easily one of my most anticipated channels to watch every week. Makes me miss the yesteryears of Battle Bots and Robot Wars.
This whole series made me get a 3D printer and print loads of things but right now I’m experimenting with fan inserts that fill the gap between the fan tip and the casing. Seems to have improved my noctua 140 industrial fans since the gap was so wide. 0.8mm wall all away around fits just fine. Wish I had a real way of testing it though!
I also want to see how the top performing fans do when stuffed into a Cheater or Overdrive shroud. That would make a heck of an end-of-season finale episode!
Thanks for the explanation that you're wearing camo, I almost didn't notice :P I love watching tech vids with floating heads and hands! It makes it easier to focus on the tech! :D :P
I love a floating face and hands showing us the new fans of episode 5
Amazing as always! Love watching these
i love this series so much, i would love to season 5 use a super cheap tower cooler that uses 1 120mm fan and try to make it better. some kind of non brand name generic pos cooler and make it OK
Second to none had some .. emotional damage!
Would graphite be a better lubricant for the bearings in this scenario or no?
Genuine question, I know there’s a reason for powered graphite but I can’t remember if it’s use case is for high speed or low speed.
I'm no engineer but I can't imagine a situation where ground up solids are a better lubricant than actual liquid except if that liquid is more like grease.
Graphite is really good at friction reduction in a sliding environment. These rolling element bearings work better with oil or grease. Graphite or molebdenum would work well in a plain bushing.
The floating head was awesome lol another great episode!!
13:57 - There is a good amount of air escaping between the fan casing and the shroud, I bet if there were a thin strip of rubber there to seal that up, it would move more air AND be quieter...
"Second to none" being actually second be like: "Emotional Damage!"
i really wonder how some of these gear drive fans would work if they were driven by something like a 3A Delta fan....
Lack of torque is definitely the Achilles heel
@@static2430 A Noctua IPC 3,000 RPM fan would definitely have more torque
i have some 2A delta's, and some 2A nidec, i am trying some basic designs, im afraid they will likely explode.
Always enjoy your Fan Showdown. Keep up the good work!
Looks like a lot of hot air (getting pushed around.) Lol 'Could not resist.
The tunes during the slowmo 🔥🔥🔥
Overdrive could win, it just needs more refinement. Plus, with a motor with as little torque as that, the blade angle needs to be lower so that it can spin faster. It might make less airflow at low rpm, but it would enable it to spin faster theoretically
Oddly enough, I did test Ov3rdrive with shallower blades, but it didn't change the rpm much in geared mode and didn't push as much in direct.
*@Major Hardware*
13:16 It would be nice if you could fit the fan in an acrylic sheet or something (front side of fan), so the air "overflow" around the edge is prevented, and so we can see the actual suction of the fan. it doesn't have to be a huge sheet, just like some decimeter(s) around or something, still small enough to film from the side. Or maybe you can even use regular plastic cling-wrap (for food) or something, just stretched out enough to form an air barrier.
Considering the lack of a bell housing, the Second to None did amazingly well.
Yeah, he really should run every fan with it, and the ones that have them without it.
Long time fan of the show, Grats on the 200K !! @Major Hardware
In my experience, the closer the thickness of a fan blade approaches zero, compared to its size, like literally soda can thickness, for a computer fan, the better. I'm not sure an aerofoil profile is advantageous, but I noticed that any thickness, at least near the edges, dramatically reduces flow and/or collimation, rather dragging the air more in a circle for a conical output.
I notice an obvious difference in effect when I clean that thin ridge of dust off the leading edge of a room fan blade.
The airflow does seem to be very sensitive to profile variations.
You did not 🤣 "We're gonna start with Tom today,...." *HERTZ AD with Tom Brady* Perfect timing
I hope you put that bearing into the the center of the sun-gear for testing... That would make a big difference in the efficiency of the gear mesh.
How the heck do you figure the Second to None is 6th, and not 5th? The stats are the same as Falchion, except it spins faster and is quieter.... It's the better fan; If not, tied for 5th.
think he's going purely by difference between room-temp and core temps, not overly worried on rpm/quietness
Congrats on 200K Subs!
I've been playing around with creating front and rear housings for some PC fans I'm using with a ULPA filter for my 3D printer. The filter needs really high static pressure (so a completely different type of fan should be used) but I just wanted to see what modifications I could make to what I've got laying around that might work for now. I am trying stacking fans as well to see if that helps any. I picked up a Scythe that rotates clockwise to see if contrarotating fans will make any difference.
I also am planning on making my own 200mm fan and housing as I'd like a higher rpm model than what the market has available right now. I picked up a 140mm fan with a beefy hub motor that I'm going to pull out for the 200mm fan (I couldn't find a source for a fan motor on it's own). It'll be interesting to see how that turns out.
I'm surprised nobody has figured out how to make a fan that adjusts its angle of attack based on its speed
I don't think there would actually be any advantage to that. It adds weight and complexity. Instead, test it yourself, see what it runs at, and adjust based on that.
Helicopters do that.
At the size of a 120mm fan I don't see how you'd fit the necessary gears.
Besides, you'd have to adjust according to the static pressure it's up against, not the speed.
@@Steamrick I can design it in my head and could probably make it by hand, but I have issues designing things on a computer or on paper for that matter. It seems like doubling the hub depth and making a helical slot that ran a few millimeters into it, then connecting the blades with a T connector and a light spring would allow it to self adjust as centrifugal force built up. The spring also acts to lock the blades into the hub. Thus it could be made to increase static pressure as it speeds up. Weight would not be much different than other fans @Major Hardware has tested in the past.
the watercooler distro plate is amazing
You should look for ceramic bearings and lube for the ultimate friction reduction, I used them on a 250W e-scooter engine, and the difference was somewhat noticeable.
I like how, aside from DBa, the overdrive actually beats the A12x25 by 300rpm. Same output for 300 rpm less. I'm sure it could be optimized more to reduce weight to improve it's output.
I guess you could say that the Second To None took some Emotional Damage with that ranking.
When you do the smoke test it would be nice if you had a piece of clear acrylic with a fan cutout that you mounted these fans to. I see a look of smoke being sucked around the exterior of the fans because of the pressure difference.
Homie from Michigan! That Micro Center has been a staple in my diet for almost 20 years.
Nothing to unexpected. Sound wise, if I had to listen to a fan all day, I find the Second to None rather pleasing. Emotional Damage is probably named after the results of listening to it for extended periods.
Venturie... Build a fan housing with three or four venturie/funnels norrowing into the sides of it and then expanding out on the inside of it. Set up the fan to promote airflow in the direction of toward the heatsink. Be sure the funnels are wider in the entrance side of the outer housing and wide on the exit end of the inside of the housing. Sorry don't have a computer working now to try and CAD things...
gotta say those prints look so damn clean. i remember how things where back in the days in S1 xD
Geared fans lose so much power due to friction in the printed parts and abviously more speed means less torque to spin the fan in the first place.
I would be intrested to see a overpowered fan showdown where the top 10 gets tested with a drone motor. which has much more power and much greater rpm... put all of them in a housing so you wont get hit by shrapnell though. ^^
you got me with that WoW sound... right in the nostalgia center
I still think I like the temperature tests better, not sure if that's actually a better representation of how well the fan is working, but it made more sense to my Australopithecus brain.
Might be but it also makes each run alot more time intensive. Measuring airflow can be done within a minute while reaching a steady state on an air cooler might take 5-10 minutes, more like 45 on a closed water cooler.
Given how close second to none went to overdrive, and how much simpler it was to print, I have an Idea for next season. How about competition for printing time - winner is the one who gets most cfm / seconds of printing. This way we can have much different designs claim the top - 2 blade , thinner or we can still get the top fans. Slice settings should be the same for everyone- inflill speeds retractions.
This would be hilarious. Dual prop body beasts everywhere.
Oh Comon! Mine is so similar to second to none but also FAR better optimized for printing - Super light weight, 2 perimeters everywhere. Submitted it over a year ago
I'm actually glad Micro Center is still around. I couldn't believe it when Fry's folded. It was like an immortal giant had been killed by the very thing it lived to facilitate.
Emotional damage hurts. That fan design probably hurts, both to look at, and physicaly painful
I almost stopped by that exact microcenter when I was on a drive to pick up my 4th Thermaltake armor case.
the overdrive gets the win over the cheater based on looks alone IMO. if I had a choice out of those 2, I'd take the overdrive because it looks way cooler. however if I absolutely needed pure, unadulterated airflow... the cheater of course wins the day.
Thank you! I'm a little disappointed since my calculations put the CFM at 280 in direct mode. That was only theory though since I didn't have a CFM meter.
Great episode, thanks
Somewhere, Steven He's dad is calling this entire channel a Failure as he says he created a Fan Showup when he invented the fan in China 🤣 #EmotionalDamage
This was maybe the most pleasantly sounding set of fans you've yet tested.
the reason you swap lubricants in the bearings is that they are designed for the loading the bearing is rated for, in continuous use. we're playing around here and just need low friction not load capacity or longevity
Remember the Acceleron? Put that in the Cheater case and see if it beats the Cheater
Used to build 777X with the ge9x, you can't fathom the size unless you're next to it. Intake is the same size as a 737 fuselage
I too have no idea on the emotional damage.
All looked really cool and I am impressed.
Overdrive mode reminds me of some of the 90s vehicles with overdrive that just would never make it up a very subtle hill (less than 3 degrees incline). Very unfortunate the engine does not seem to have much power to push the overdrive mode.
That +5 charisma, "Cybereye has completed trial quest, receives +5 charisma and 250 rep with Major Hardware" Lol ...and got me with the sound, thought someone in family left wow on over the speakers. Hahaha.
Also, these episodes, are we finally in heroics in say wrath? There was that one that No one would run because that first boss killed all pick up groups regardless of gear score. Old times for me..but the fam plays
Floating talking head, ah, good old days :P
Emotional damage get's 15th: "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!"
There, you understand the meme now? lol the fan itself IS the meme!
The outflow side of Overdrive was backwards. This caused those big support legs to not align with the Noctua support braces. I would expect a small increase in performance on a retest after flipping that part around.
The overdrive needed rubber gaskets to seal it to keep the air from escaping out of the sides. I bet it would improve.
Could you rework the overdrive to where the brace supports are in line with the case supports. This should remove the extra turbulence and improve its results. Doing the same thing to the cheater should also improve its results too.
The second to none is a very good looking fan and provided a respectable result while remaining to be a “normal fan”.
if i had access to machine tools id love to see some of these complex fans made of precision made gears and bearings, 3d printing is amazing but it can only go so far before machined metal outright wins
There still needs to be two lists. One for fans that fully fit within the case of the Noctua in all dimensions, and one for fans that exceed these dimensions with the fans themselves or with additional straighteners and inlet bells. Until then I consider the list of little use.
"emotional damage got last place"
EMOTIONAL DAMAGE
I wonder if the smoke test might work better if the fans were mounted in a "wall" (like the wall of a case). So that smoke doesn't just drift past the fan over the top of it. If you made the wall out of a clear plastic, you could still film it at both angles.
congrats on 200k
Is it possible to get a fan motor to spin as low as 1 RPM? I bought a fan controller but the RPMs are still too high, when I lower the power the fan stops.
Major Hardware you have the best aerodynamic head to improve the fan air flow
great video as always 👍🙂
I'm from Warren and used to shop at the same Microcenter. Cool to know you're from the area.
Royal Oak representing.
I was wondering why it’d been so long since a fan showdown episode- then I saw the Elden Ring reference.
We know where our boy was. I respect the grind. 😂
Fan times to come
Have you run the cheater housings on the standard Noctua fan for comparison?
I'd love to know how that affects things.
Additionally, what's the front bellmouth alone add to its result vs what's the back half alone.
Really enjoy your channel :)
I think a battle of the best episode at the end of the season putting the top 3 against each other BUT the fans being re-printed in resin. Fans like the overdrive and the clock fan I think would help them perform even better. Would be super cool to see the difference between an FDM printed fan and a resin printed fan and if it makes a difference
With the sound of the gears quiet down if you printed the outer part of the gear in a rubbery plastic
I just happen to be switching out some fans in my PC and testing cooling changes when your video popped up! Perfect timing. I do really like the Size Original SCYTHE 120mm Case Fan Swirl Fins Wonder Snail 2400 rpm 4-pin PWM as listed here online in Japan. Sorry, I can't find the exact listing in the US for you. I think the brand in the US is referred to as Scythe Kaze(Japanese for wind).
Did you give the dimensions of the plastic that connects the fan motor to the fan shroud? I would think fans with included backplates would work better if they could line up their supports with the ones on the fan.
This series is so FANcy
They were SOOO close! Now we need Second to None in the Cheater or OverDrive chassis.
the smoke test music is the best
Hey Major! What is that box on the wall right behind your head? It changes colour and has spinny thing. Also cables come out of it?
The wow quest sound. God damn