World’s Most Complex PC Cooling Fan | Fan Showdown S4 Special
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.พ. 2022
- It’s only been one episode of season 4 of the fan showdown but this fan deserved a video all its own. Just when I think we have reached the pinnacle of what can be done with a 3D printer and PC cooling fans you prove me wrong. Today we look at the handy work of Selby, Selby decided that 1 120mm fan isn’t enough and wanted the power of two fans on the frame of one. Selby set out to design a contra rotating 120mm fan assembly that wasn’t just for looks. This thing is a masterpiece of FDM printing and design, not to mention its about as cool as a PC fan can be.
OH and you asked for the T33 MK3 in the cheater frame so we are also going to do that.
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FINALLY! it took me as long as the subreddit has existed but I finally got a contra fan to make it! and it actually works... good times. Going to be honest, even though I know contra rotation has its advantages I'm genuinely surprised the second fan actually managed to increase performance and seeing it do so is a very good feeling.
For anyone wondering about planetary and bevel gears sets the issues really comes down to how the gears are braced inside the fan. In the case of planetary all the designs I tried just added to much friction (causing both to be slow and much louder) all while not running at a 1:1 fan speed ratio which I wanted to reduce the chance of one fan throttling the other, this is also why the fans have the same blade count even though that probably increased noise a fair bit. As for bevel gears well i just couldn't manage to print 3D them and still function at such small scale and as such cant really as much about how well they work.
Well done! Awesome design.
It really is an awesome feat. Congratulations!
u r a legend, Sir.
Very cool design. You should be proud.
awesome fan and design. Now I want to see your Contra fan with a shroud as large as the cheaters to see if it gets even better?
We NEED to see the Contra with dual T33 MARK 3s and the Cheater frame!
This. This right here.
Well why not put two fan housings back to back, so the rear one is counter rotating, put t33's (one mirrored and front back flipped) in and use the funnel of the cheater (the back housing is just a flow straightener you don't need with the counter rotation of the second fan).
1st. More power due to twice the engine
2nd. No gear noise / mechanical losses
3rd. No alinement issues so no rubbing
And I know its not a fair competition but there are push pull configs for big aircoolers to test against.
next season? *wink *wink
The god fan
And get some metal gears and bearings to lower the friction/noise 👍
@@arnejungclaus7957 Well he needs to test the contra with the shroud it had without the other blade on it to be sure otherwise its not really a comparison of the single fan vs contra rotating. So while that's a good idea but in this case actually 1+1 doesnt necessarily =2 . If you are using the exact same fans that is its only going to increase the static pressure that the fans can create and you wont get more than 10-20% more flow than what the fan is rated for initially. The second fan in the rear needs to be a higher rpm to make it have much of a difference. With the second motor counter rotating it may come out a head but i still think they will be remarkably close and it will still make a funky noise its kind of inherent with the counter rotating props if close by, Regardless tho a single fan with a counter rotating setup will be more efficient than stacking the 2 and offer more performance over a wider range of conditions and higher static pressure . you can really see it in the smoke test on how uniform of the outflow that it puts out because it is cancelling any of the lateral motion imparted by the blades .
The thing with counter rotating fans is that the second fan needs to have more pitch than the first one to speed up the air flow going through it. If both fans have the same pitch it can stall out the second fan and create turbulent air flow.
You can reduce turbulent air flow a bit by simply adjusting the speed of the fans but you're right, there needs to be higher pitch on the second fan blades.
It would also make more sense to power the outer fan rather than the inner fan since you really should be increasing the gear ratio from the outer to the inner. If the inside fan is doing all the work then the outside fan is really just an extra set of blades pushing the air with increased surface area. The goal is to get the inner fan to work for the outer fan and pull the air away from it, reducing the contact time with turbulent air coming off the blades and simultaneously (Most importantly) creating a low-pressure area between the two fans.
I was wondering if the second fan the air passes through would be better having a more aggressive curve if the air is already moving passed it, it would have less resistance, wouldn't it?
You can possibly see this at 9:12 in the smoke test. The smoke goes into the front, then instead of immediately flying out the back, there's a slight pause before it starts getting pulled out by the second fan.
Came here to say this!
I wonder if the blade surface volume was also impeding the performance of the twin blade design?
This turned into a crowdsourced run for the best possible itteration of current applied PC cooling. Good stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised if a company contacted the designers for the righs to use it (of course buying the design) or something
@@redmist4963 I would be very surprised. It is much better to design your own. And the big companies certainly have both the knowledge, tools, and funds to do so.
@@redmist4963 one already has. the accelleron or something i think it was called.
That technology first came from Military Aircraft engines from WW2 and such, soooo....
Yeah, you had engines that are used in Aircrafts and Tanks btw.
The T33 alone, beat the single fan version of the contra. Would changing one of the fans (or both) on the contra to be shaped more like the T33 be even better? And what about adding the cheater housing to that?
The cheater housing might have to change a little to accommodate the second fan, so I think these two fan makers need to collab so we can see.
@@tvrkm6897 oh man, I hope they do.
contra t33 cheater...........
@@tvrkm6897 Ya, no doubt. I bet every piece would probably need some tweaking to make them all work together. But it's an interesting idea and I have my fingers crossed someone attempts it (I'm just a spectator here)
@@ghomerhust my man planning to blast the atmosphere away
This community driven content is so spectacular! I can’t help but smile as I’m watching. Love the show.
Right! It's one big group effort. You can see the innovation grow by the minute. Amazing!
AGREE... The iterative updates that we see are truly amazing. It's like Russia vs American space technology... America does millions of SIMS, where Russia builds and fixes. Toyota does the same which is why their vehicles are so damn good. Plus the amount of people pulling in new perspectives means that the rate of change is massive. In 18 months a bunch of nutters on the internet have made fans that can outperform Noctua, a very wealthy company with 25+ years of experience.
AMAZING!!!!
The gear driven stuff is cool too 🙃
Saying it again: love this show! For the content: I think the next logical step is to contraspin two T33 MK3.
and then stick that in the cheater!
@@N0RD0M on top of another cheater... and if possible a contra-cheater XD
I was thinking about designing and submitting something like this all the way back in S1 or S2, it’s awesome to see someone actually do this
ok, Dapz
I think the #1 thing to do to improve this design is to ditch the 3d printed gears for some off-the-shelf ones. Sloppy gear accuracy is no doubt the biggest contributior to the unacceptable noise level.
Still very impressive design-wise.
Plus those plastic gears are going to wear rather quickly and just make the slop worse. Some simple brass gears would do wonders, I mean we've been using them in watches for a couple hundred years now and they do their job for a long time.
@@SilvaDreams I beg to differ, with the right lubricant you can get a long lifetime from 3D printed gears. Replaced one (PLA) in a mixer and it still goes strong after more than a year of regular use.
@@SilvaDreams PLA isn't too bad for wear, it self-polishes, so it will get a bit more slop, but once the surfaces are smooth they are really quite durable to constant load. Just don't stop the fan with an object while spinning, bad things will happen.
Yea itd be better off with getting the shafts more rigidly emplaced and aligned and the gears maybe smoothed a bit or just made sure of their uniformity and it should improve it pretty decently, i mean if you wanted to go all out then you could go with like some metal gears with ruby bearings with either helical cut gears and some thrust bearing or herring bone gears to keep it aligned and to counter act and pull from the front blade.
@@SilvaDreams Sure, brass gears won't wear but the fans are still plastic. You could get some decent life out of plastic on plastic gears but metal on plastic would probably self-destruct.
The secondary fan needs to have a higher pitch blade to take advantage of the air velocity at its intake. All compound setups need to be progressive.
Would also love to see a static pressure comparison, which is an area where the counter-rotating system should have an advantage.
THIS. You need a secondary fan which is able to handle the huge amount of incoming air pushed from the first. Meaning the fan blades on the 2 fan needs to be more open and not so angled
And the rpm can be increase as well, the reason why they invented the counter rotating blades was to stop the compression after the single blade running at high speeds so with a better manufacturing and balance, probably would be in first place.
I thought the 2nd fan needed higher pitch, not the first. Look at all turbines, and even single fan blades, the pitch is less where the air comes in and more at the exit. Where I am I wrong?
@@Joshua-uq9zw I agree with your first statement, but not the second one. (AKA, it needs more pitch on the second one)
This is so awesome! The higher performance of two fans had me thinking for a few minutes, and I think it's because the counter-motion of the fans cancels out the angular momentum of the air. You can see this in the smoke test - the air comes out almost strait instead of in a vortex. So less energy is lost to sideways motion (which would increase friction in the tunnel, I suppose) and more energy is transfered to linear motion. In addition the air already has a certain linear speed component from the first fan, so the second can also speed it up more.
...
Well that's my speculation at least. It is really cool to see those effects overcome the negative impact of the friction between the gears, etc.
The journey you have taken us on, thus far, is amazing. Congrats to you, and all the fans.
I'd like to see comparisons with some form of air restrictions, I.e. a radiator as the double fan should have a lot more static pressure then just a single fan.
Give this man some thumbs up! In the end it should be about cooling capability not creating the best windtunnel!
@@kooskroos aircooled vs watercooled.
@@toolbaggers A water radiator is still air cooling in this context and you want air speed through the fins in either case, but if you don't have enough pressure then it will be turbulent and inefficient when interacting with the fins. Water radiators need more pressure simply because the fins are more densely packed but both will need pressure.
I am impressed with what you have created with the Fan Showdown. I remember coming to your channel when you first decided to watercool the air cooler. Impressive to see. Hopefully one day you can work with GN and get the top fans on their testing rig to get some legally defensible data to back up the fan designs.
Agreed!
Contra rotating props are fascinating to me. Such an efficient concept and I bet if you could tweak the tolerances enough to get a more precise fit or even find a way to seal the gear case so you could pack it with grease you could tighten up the tolerances just by doing that. Such a cool fan design! Good work, Selby!
YES!!!! FINALLY!!!!
Contra should have a bit more aggressive angle blade on drive fan to accelerate the air flow that first fan create. would be interesting to see next version of it.
This is a design used in some server fans, such as the San ace 40 or the Delta GFC1212DW, but those use 2 motors.
it's probably better to run with 2 motors. I think gears would require too much maintainance unless you use more expensive materials
Man i love thick fans
@@_ExTitus yeah was thinking the same. Basically take 2 fans and sandwich together kinda design more or less. Each with own motor and wire to connect to the motherboard. Gear make too much noice and will break at some point
Two motors could be used in this test, but then they both would have to run at half power to give a fair comparison.
Man, long ago I began watching this series to distract myself and now I'm even learning. That was great!
This is one of the first times I've wanted a 3D printer after seeing something 3D printed. What a neat little project.
What I like most about this series is that it's publicly posted test/research that can easily influence advances in future technology
I personally had been trying to think of how to make a fan like this since fan showdown started.
Counter rotating fans are so cool
And they can do over 4 times the thrust of a single one
For the next gear driven fan, I'd try some dry lube meant for bike chains, maybe even some wax-based one (there are some that come diluted in a solvent that evaporates somewhat quickly and leaves a wax layer). Mainly to attract less dust and, I assume, it will get flicked off less
PTFE spray. It's not wax-based. It's actually a type of plastic that's dissolved in alcohol. You spray it on and the alcohol evaporates leaving the very slick PTFE plastic surface.
It's a dry lubricant as well, but it won't have the stickiness that wax sometimes has.
Dry lube would be a bad choice for this application. Film lubricants don't decrease friction as significantly as oil lubricants, they're mainly intended for high-load applications.
This is a low-load application where you want to decrease friction as much as possible - almost exactly the opposite use case.
@@louisvaught2495 To be fair, PTFE is not your typical dry lube, I would think it would be in a different ballpark to any other sort of dry lube product. Brilliant because it does not attract dust and the whole "teflon" thing kind of speaks for itself
@@poo123444 Nope. PTFE has a really high COF compared to oil lubricants. Solid lubricants are for when you want some sort of lubrication under high-load conditions or something where you can't build a liquid film.
We're talking a couple orders of magnitude for a well-designed bearing. This won't be well-designed but I'd be surprised if it's higher than 1/10th.
@@louisvaught2495 Would it work to use both? spray the gears with PTFE, then lubricate with oil?
What a amazing and celebratory episode. I love how this channel is a forum for people all over the world to share their ideas. This is what science is all about. Its been great watching the evolution of the fans and I can't wait to see the next step.
My creativity increases every time I watch one of these Fan Showdown series. I've noticed that these ingenious design principles can apply to many other areas of life.
At the beginning i didn't even like the smoketest music much, but now I'm completely vinbin with it, and it makes me smile every time.
Love your content, and the 4k spices it up even more!
smoke test music is awesome....always feel like im playing Vice City.
Makes me feel like I'm gonna take a journey across Japan
What a triumph! This opens a lot of avenues for ambitious mechanical ideas for future submissions!
I look forward to every one of these videos. This is the most wholesome and entertaining part of my week. Thank you for putting this together and all of your work to keep it going.
I love your show, something I would like to see included in the tests, us the static air pressure produced. Not just the volume of are moved. Great work, man. I appreciate it.
would be cool to see with some lightweight metal gears and a properly lubricated bearing would be alot of work but I think well worth it
I liked the idea until I got out the McMaster-Carr catalogue and realized the budget haha. Doable but not too cheap
it might be better to use pulleys, not gears.
@@nicksurfs1 why are you looking at an industrial part catalog lol, that's 500$ just to open the book
@@gangadin2873 My dad use to work on dentist hand pieces so I was thinking having some small gears with some very small bearings might work pretty good and quiet
@@redrevo1179 Dentists use pneumatic tools and they are quite noisy despite . They are ultrahighspeed and require torque, plus they have to fit within certain size. This is not the case for fans. The most these fans spin is 2000 rpm. Where as the dentist's drill is minimum 8000 rpm, maxing out at 250,000 rpm.
Gears would be fine if they are enclosed and lubricated in light machine oil. They can't be left open as they would catch all sorts of dust and dirt from the surrounding and clog up. That means building a tiny tiny gearbox and I am not sure anyone has the inclination to build a tiny metal gearbox for tiny metal gears and tiny oil seals.
That's awesome. We need ultra low resistance bearings and helical gears for quieter operation.
Nice! I'm glad someone made this fan. I had this idea when you first started the fan showdown because of the dual rotor RC helicopters I used to have.
Impressive. I enjoyed seeing your reaction to it as much as the performance.
Your show and the fan makers very well might change the whole cooling fan industry. I'd love to see that thing made from the highest end components and a motor made just for it. I bet its possible to get it quiet and faster. So cool.
Thats such a cool design! While not mechanically complex, it is executed incredibly well!
I also wonder how other fans perform on the Cheater base - back and/or front attachment. Maybe as a final episode of season 4 we can test combinations of fans and attachments.
Thank you sooo much for adding cfm! Helps a lot at understandig the qualaty of the fans.
I was watching your videos when you were getting maybe a thousand views. Its crazy to see how far youve come. Looking healthy and happy, and sick set! Also cool fan lol
That's absolutely incredible. Selby did an amazing job designing it, and your printing skills really pulled it off. I love seeing the engineering that goes into some of these fan showdown submissions. I've got some ideas, too, but I just haven't had the time to sit down and work any of them out.
On a side-note that I don't mean to be a jerk by bringing up: "fitment" doesn't mean what you and other tech channels seem to think it means.
I'd say fitment has come to mean exactly what most people it means. Similar to "literally".
@@MrMeasaftw And I could say "IceMelon" has come to mean "someone who doesn't language."
But then we'd both be wrong.
Been waiting for this! I do wish the planetary gears went ahead, because they are wicked!
This channel you've created, is going to usher in a whole new era of performance PC cases. And they're gonna look sick AF. I can't wait
great project 👏😎
Now just need to switch to helical gears for the noise...
Selby said he did try helical gears and didn't have as much success
@@MajorHardware yeah, the resolution would be an issue at that size
Helical gears impart much more axial thrust which causes friction. Along with the helical gears increasing friction too.
If it could be made with low friction bearings and thrust bearings along with polished metal gears then helical would be good. With the plastic it’s just to much friction once it’s loaded and trying to move air.
what a thing of beauty and it even runs really nice. Good work.
This is exactly what I was hoping for when I first started watching the fan showdowns!!! Yes!!!!!👏👏👏
I would love to see and engineered versions of these fans using clock bearings, it would be super quiet and run so smoothly
Literally just came back to your channel. Glad you finally went bald, you look awesome with that beard!
I knew something had changed but all I thought was "huh, his beard looks good."
this was my fav episode to day and I have really liked the last ones but this one! The ideas! WOW!
Wow, James, I LOOOVE the bright, shiny colors of these filaments; nice choices!
Could you accomplish the same thing with 2 A12x25s with the fronts facing each other and one fan printed backwards?
I think that because they wouldn't be synchronized it would likely cause problems. There's only one way to find out.
@@hellishinc why would syncronisation be a problem ? Air gets pushed by the front fan, and air gets pulled by the rear. Air is Air. The Air doesnt change characteristics because of the fans being synced ?
@@Joshua-uq9zw turbulence. There's more to pushing fluids/gases than simply slapping *on a spinny thing. As shown by all the different designs on this very channel.
There are a lot of contra rotating fans built that way that's used in servers and industrial equipment. Most of them are however only 40mm fans and are used in 1U servers where they provide a very high (for axial fans) pressure that allows them to overcome the restricted airpath in these servers. They are also incredibly noisy, but again, server...
Man i wana say that I love the energy and enthusiasm that you put on every video!!! Keep the amazing work!!!
this is the coolest fan so far!!!! It was worth the wait. i want fans like this through out my pc they look so cool!!!
could you do a tst with this on a radiator or cooler?
I imagine the effect of counter rotating fan on static pressure might be much greater than on cfm alone
The biggest benefit of contrarotating fans is efficiency and torque cancellation.
Try the dual/contra rotating fan with the back Diffuser of the cheater maybe it will be even better
^this. The air is so much smoother with the cheaters back attachment!
Hi man, long time fan of this channel.
I love the smoke part of these vids, vapor wave is an ideal choice of music as a background for a wave of vapour.
Now put the Contra fan in the Cheater housing!! I am absolutely amazed at the design of the Contra fan! Excellent work Selby!
Loving this content. Time to start expanding the 3d print entries to a new field. What else can we compete to do?
for a final version an extra motor would be "simpler" in the end than gears
great work to all getting this fan to run smoothly
Oh, good, you brought the spin-up look back for the smoke test! Great, I like that!
Sup
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I realy thing this channel is the dream for fan companies, there is so mutch useful data
That was the best airflow I've seen on any of these fans. Most of the others have a lot of turbulence on the back side and this one goes for what looks to be a good several winches before just the drag from the air causes the air coming through to get turbulent
great video! i recently did a video on my experience over the years at Fan expo here in Canada since it was a 25th anniversary celebration. Making the video brought back awesome memories of pre pandemic days
Super awesome! Thanks for making this video.
Love how the smoke gets drawn back after it passes the fan.
Very satisfying and functional amount of gizmocity, very nice.
I'm blown away that you have been able to make an awesome TH-cam channel that is primarily focused on computer fan engineering. I watch every showdown episode, I'm a huge fan. I always look forward to your content, mainly because of your enthusiasm.
Please keep it up, you're much appreciated by the community!
Cheers!
youre a huge...FAN?
hah.
@@SpydersByte you forgot "blown away"
@@MagnumSeven damn, I did didnt I? 😢
This takes the fan showdown to a completely new level.
My design didn't get selected and after seeing this I think I can never imagine a design to beat these.
The airflow with the contra fan is amazingly straight. That design might be onto something as a case fan!
Aside from being amazed by the designs your community comes up with let me quickly compliment you on the baldy. Looks slick 😎
Really incredible design!
The counter rotating fan is so cool. Looks really great, cant wait to see it with the cheeter combined.... and installed for cooling a CPU.
This thing amazing I don't have imagined this type of content love it.
I hope this starts rabbit hole. More crazy complex things please give me more!
It's dope how the bar just keeps on raising !!
Getting numbers is really what makes this a game. More numbers means more things todo = more levels = more challenges.
For example >> A new number could be putting a temp sensor at a distance away... like maybe 4 inches. Gonna need an accurate sensor with adequate surface area, but that would make a whole new spec to shoot for :)
Very, very cool. Btw, that smoke test music took me back to 80s Living In A Box :)
This is fantastic. Thank you Selby !
I wonder if we could accomplish the opposite and drive 1 set of fan blades with 2 fan motors.
I've also been hoping to see a fun fan that diverges from the direct PC application where it spins a much larger set of fan blades, more the size of a desk or floor fan.
That bearing and the extra fan of the Contra act as a fly wheel to allow the Noctua motor to spin faster? Incredible.
I honest laughed so hard at the "Oh no..." When it came apart. Hahhaa just so genuine.
I like how the air exiting the fan was vortex-ed rather than being spewed out in all directions
It's like Christmas! A kickass contrarotating PC case fan!
Best design evah!!! Keep them coming!
That contra fan is siiiiick!
I really want to see the concept come back in the future, for example I'd love one that has actual plane propeller shaped fanblades.
i used to do these counter-rotating (pretty much i call it a compressor like from jet engines) kind of fans with high rpm fans back when i was working retail pc shop. And damn these are loud. almost sounds like a roaring engine and the airflow was insane.
Genuinely brilliant channel.
It's fun to see how this show has evolved.
Awesome fans! Great designs!
About time someone perfected this concept 👊 well done
It sounded like an engine in the wind tunnel 😆😆
Blooming brilliant.
Favorite episode so far! Keep it up! I would love to see how that setup does printed in resin🧐
This style of fan is used quite widely in low profile rackmount server gear. My Poweredge R410 has 7x 40mm fans comprised of two contra-rotating fan modules with air guides. They produce a ridiculous amount of airflow for how smallthey are!!
I can’t wait to see where this goes!!!!!!
Definitely my favorite fan so far
Love the fan montage at the 8:50 mark!
Strikes me that its STATIC PRESSURE would be through the roof!!! I suspect as a pure air flow fan it isn't showing its best, but as a fan to go on a radiator.... You are really truly onto something... Like really big onto something!!! Major, you need to test it on a radiator!
That thing was spectacular.
The iterative updates that are coming through on this show have got to be making fan manufacturers stand up and take some real notice.
Major, you have created a movement here... An air one (geddit) but a movement nonetheless.
You need to get some PTFE spray dry release. It's great for lubricating plastic parts without imparting any drag.
Oh, I forgot to add the model I've used for years is Camie A1000. It's the most consistent spray and fast drying solvent. It dries so fast it does not have time to affect any plastic.
guys are crowd source building the new best Fan of our generation God bless I love what people can come together to do
Some of these fans almost deserve to be printed in resin because they’re so intricate and so much time was taken to design them
This is one of those fans you wanna put on your PC and stare at it as it spins up. This one is my favorite so far!
I'm going to put this above my stove top and laugh at your videos every time I cook.. just playing.🤣