I was surprised too actually. Filler sticks unbelievably well to metal that is prepared with sharp paper. I think when it goes wrong is when the sand paper is dull and shines the metal instead of cutting it. Thanks for watching Tom :)
Hey man I don’t know if you read all the comments but if you do I have a couple of questions. Once I finished welding up my truck box patch panels, I sprayed a light coat of primer on it because I didn’t want it to get surface rust if I didn’t work on it for a while. Should I sand this off so my filler can go onto bare metal? Like if I use a very aggressive grit do I need to remove all the paint or just make sure it’s all well scratched up! Second question: do you have a small “lakeside auto body” sticker Incan stick on my tailgate when I’m done? You are basically rebuilding my truck. I’m just doing what I’m told up here.
You can put filler over sanded paint and/or primer. I just like to put it over metal because it's easy then to feather edge the paint or get the sand scratches out of the paint from sanding the filler. This video might interest you too - th-cam.com/video/koMw6-auoIs/w-d-xo.html
🤔...With the 24 grit plate even after all the abuse you can see there is still a very thin layer of filler on the metal. Which means it was the filler that failed not the bond to the metal. With 240 grit those places where the metal is bright it's the metal/filler bond that's failed. I kinda wonder if 240 grit on paint would perform any better. The issue may be the viscosity of the filler is too thick to get into 240 grit scratches.
I think you're right about the DA paper on paint because the paper stays sharp and cuts paint - not so true on metal. Here's a good video about filler on paint - th-cam.com/video/koMw6-auoIs/w-d-xo.html
Jerry I bought a 55 Chevy last winter. The previous owner said the paint is original, but I am skeptical. In any event, paint cracks from what I believe are fill exist on the trunk and one of the rear fenders. I can see no damage of the sheet metal underneath several of the cracks; which makes me think the fill is as old as the car. Is that likely? Did production cars in the 50’s have skim coats of fill? Frank
If it's in the sail panel it's lead. If it's all over the car, it's likely it was painted before and the person that did it used incompatible products or did something wrong.
It’s in several places. I think you’re right on all points. Previous owner had the car for over 25 years. I know the textbook answer is to grind it all down to bare metal. I’m not doing that. I’m going to grind down the affected areas, refill, block sand and paint. In other words take the risk of the shortcut. 95% of the existing paint looks great, my logic is whatever hasn’t failed by now won’t fail anytime soon. Will be wearing my Lakeside AutoBody shirt to Ford Carlisle later this month. My wife said it’s a high quality t shirt and she thinks it looks great: and I agree. Appreciate your feedback sir.@@LakesideAutobody
Jerry, are those the Benchmark Abrasive Ceramic Resin Discs, or the less expensive Aluminum Oxide Discs? How about the Zirconia discs? Too many choices get confusing. Can you explain the difference between the 3? Maybe a video on that subject. Thanks.
I use the cheapest ones. I never really notice the difference between higher priced ceramic & zirconia vs aluminum oxide. Always go with the cheapest first - if it's not working for you, move up. Same strategy with drill bits, hack saw blades, sand paper, etc. Hope that helps :)
All the above plus get some aluminium powder based filler - it's the best onto bare metal - just ask Aeromagic. It's also water resistant, which normal filler ain't. No other filler comes close to the sheer adhesion, rust resistance, crack resistance & resilience of ally based filler. It's horrible stuff to sand - but makes for a great smooth base to work off. Novol do one I like - there are others.
Truth is, filler was never supposed to be put over primer - it was a huge NO NO when I worked in any professional shop. However... it was done quite often anyway to cheat 'cause sometimes you couldn't get it straight with the primer surfacer so you put filler over bondo - had to get it primed again quick so no one sees though. 😒 Anyway - I believe that the filler resin "soaks" into the primer and/or relies on a chemical bond then. Here's a video proving that both ways will work but I still believe filler over prepped metal is king - th-cam.com/video/wVhQLqPAGVU/w-d-xo.html
@LakesideAutobody Thanks Jerry I always but filler on metal but was thinking about using epoxy primer this time around and then scuff it up and put filler on it I really still don't know what to do if I should stick to my normal plan or try something new
Thx jerry, yes im old school, grind with 24, fill. Seen alot of these other bodyguys? On utube, and they 1000 % percent, percent, epoxy prime/ sealer, then slather the whole vehicle with bondo, without grinding anything? I could see epoxy prime everything to prevent flash rust, but you still have to put the grinder to it. Correct me if im wrong. Have you ever done it that way?
Filler was never meant to be put over anything but properly prepped bare metal. In fact in the shops that I worked at, it was embarrassing if you got caught putting it over primer or paint - big no, no. Only ground metal. I did put it over paint and primer many times but on small spots - dings, hail damage, etc. I did a video on this topic a while back you may find interesting - I still always believe though that filler over metal is king - th-cam.com/video/wVhQLqPAGVU/w-d-xo.html
The truth is filler was never meant to be put over anything but correctly prepped metal. This epoxy thing started from folks wanting to sell it, magazines who don't work in shops, bad info on videos, etc. However.... I do think the resin "soaks" into and/or makes a chemical bond with the epoxy and it will work. It can be put over sanded paint, wood, etc. Here's a video that shows either way will work but I still believe filler over metal is king - th-cam.com/video/wVhQLqPAGVU/w-d-xo.html
hmm I have an 77 eldorado and am installing fiberglass fender fillers, of course they DON"T fit well. I was thinking scuff with 80 and add more fiberglass where needed or sand where it is too much. The lower bend is completely off and too short. fiberglass to fiberglass is that chemical bond. I will have to paint all these 6 parts. What would you use to rough the surface up ? Would you use an epoxy resin & cloth mat to build up the underside of the filler part ?
Once fiber glass resin has cured it will not form a chemical bond - same with paints and primers. You have to sand it first with 80. Body filler, reinforced body filler, and fiberglass resin and cloth all stick great to fiberglass. It would be your choice as to what will work best for you. If it needs a lot of strength or you are bridging something use the cloth. Hope that helps - if not ask again :)
@@LakesideAutobody Thanks Jerry ! I started the filler extensions today, I roughed them up with 80 grit. Cuts fast. Car will look so much better with the fender extensions done. Cerculean Blue Firemist 1977 Eldo Biarritz with astro roof.
Another great video Jerry. I was surprised at how well the 240 grit sample did. I always enjoy your willingness to share your knowledge Jerry.
I was surprised too actually. Filler sticks unbelievably well to metal that is prepared with sharp paper. I think when it goes wrong is when the sand paper is dull and shines the metal instead of cutting it. Thanks for watching Tom :)
@@LakesideAutobody What flavor of the fiber resin discs do you prefer? I see aluminum oxide and ceramic resin as two possible choices. Thanks, Tom.
Great demonstration. Thanks. Have a grwat week.
You have a good weekend to Bob - thanks for checking it out :)
Cool man I got some repairs to do thanks!.. Enjoy your weekend Jerry.
You have a good one to MN - always nice to hear from you my friend :)
interesting, its little vids like this that say so much. thanks again!
Glad to hear that - it's little steps like this too that if missed can lead to misery down the road. Thanks for your kind words Avtovaz :)
Thanks Jerry. You da MAN !!!
Thanks for watching Joel - enjoy the weekend :)
When the filler pulled away was when the metal was stretched from the impact from the hammer blows and when it was folded. The filler didn't fail.
Thanks for sharing another informative video.
You're welcome Ken - I appreciate your comment :)
Hey man I don’t know if you read all the comments but if you do I have a couple of questions. Once I finished welding up my truck box patch panels, I sprayed a light coat of primer on it because I didn’t want it to get surface rust if I didn’t work on it for a while. Should I sand this off so my filler can go onto bare metal? Like if I use a very aggressive grit do I need to remove all the paint or just make sure it’s all well scratched up!
Second question: do you have a small “lakeside auto body” sticker Incan stick on my tailgate when I’m done? You are basically rebuilding my truck. I’m just doing what I’m told up here.
You can put filler over sanded paint and/or primer. I just like to put it over metal because it's easy then to feather edge the paint or get the sand scratches out of the paint from sanding the filler. This video might interest you too - th-cam.com/video/koMw6-auoIs/w-d-xo.html
Great Demo on how to 2 compare and which one will be the proper choice for your project
Thanks for checking it out RG - have a good weekend my friend :)
🤔...With the 24 grit plate even after all the abuse you can see there is still a very thin layer of filler on the metal. Which means it was the filler that failed not the bond to the metal. With 240 grit those places where the metal is bright it's the metal/filler bond that's failed. I kinda wonder if 240 grit on paint would perform any better. The issue may be the viscosity of the filler is too thick to get into 240 grit scratches.
I think you're right about the DA paper on paint because the paper stays sharp and cuts paint - not so true on metal. Here's a good video about filler on paint - th-cam.com/video/koMw6-auoIs/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Jerry 😎👍
You're welcome Rod - enjoy the weekend :)
Jerry
I bought a 55 Chevy last winter. The previous owner said the paint is original, but I am skeptical. In any event, paint cracks from what I believe are fill exist on the trunk and one of the rear fenders. I can see no damage of the sheet metal underneath several of the cracks; which makes me think the fill is as old as the car. Is that likely? Did production cars in the 50’s have skim coats of fill?
Frank
If it's in the sail panel it's lead. If it's all over the car, it's likely it was painted before and the person that did it used incompatible products or did something wrong.
It’s in several places. I think you’re right on all points. Previous owner had the car for over 25 years. I know the textbook answer is to grind it all down to bare metal. I’m not doing that. I’m going to grind down the affected areas, refill, block sand and paint. In other words take the risk of the shortcut. 95% of the existing paint looks great, my logic is whatever hasn’t failed by now won’t fail anytime soon. Will be wearing my Lakeside AutoBody shirt to Ford Carlisle later this month. My wife said it’s a high quality t shirt and she thinks it looks great: and I agree. Appreciate your feedback sir.@@LakesideAutobody
Jerry, are those the Benchmark Abrasive Ceramic Resin Discs, or the less expensive Aluminum Oxide Discs? How about the Zirconia discs? Too many choices get confusing. Can you explain the difference between the 3? Maybe a video on that subject. Thanks.
I use the cheapest ones. I never really notice the difference between higher priced ceramic & zirconia vs aluminum oxide. Always go with the cheapest first - if it's not working for you, move up. Same strategy with drill bits, hack saw blades, sand paper, etc. Hope that helps :)
All the above plus get some aluminium powder based filler - it's the best onto bare metal - just ask Aeromagic. It's also water resistant, which normal filler ain't. No other filler comes close to the sheer adhesion, rust resistance, crack resistance & resilience of ally based filler. It's horrible stuff to sand - but makes for a great smooth base to work off.
Novol do one I like - there are others.
Thanks for your input James - enjoy the spring weekend my friend :)
Jerry how about if you spray epoxy first 🤔
Or how well bondo sticks to those rattlecan non-epoxy primers.
Truth is, filler was never supposed to be put over primer - it was a huge NO NO when I worked in any professional shop. However... it was done quite often anyway to cheat 'cause sometimes you couldn't get it straight with the primer surfacer so you put filler over bondo - had to get it primed again quick so no one sees though. 😒 Anyway - I believe that the filler resin "soaks" into the primer and/or relies on a chemical bond then. Here's a video proving that both ways will work but I still believe filler over prepped metal is king - th-cam.com/video/wVhQLqPAGVU/w-d-xo.html
@LakesideAutobody Thanks Jerry I always but filler on metal but was thinking about using epoxy primer this time around and then scuff it up and put filler on it I really still don't know what to do if I should stick to my normal plan or try something new
Thx jerry, yes im old school, grind with 24, fill. Seen alot of these other bodyguys? On utube, and they 1000 % percent, percent, epoxy prime/ sealer, then slather the whole vehicle with bondo, without grinding anything? I could see epoxy prime everything to prevent flash rust, but you still have to put the grinder to it. Correct me if im wrong. Have you ever done it that way?
Filler was never meant to be put over anything but properly prepped bare metal. In fact in the shops that I worked at, it was embarrassing if you got caught putting it over primer or paint - big no, no. Only ground metal. I did put it over paint and primer many times but on small spots - dings, hail damage, etc. I did a video on this topic a while back you may find interesting - I still always believe though that filler over metal is king - th-cam.com/video/wVhQLqPAGVU/w-d-xo.html
Question How good is the body filler adhesion when put over epoxy primer ?
The truth is filler was never meant to be put over anything but correctly prepped metal. This epoxy thing started from folks wanting to sell it, magazines who don't work in shops, bad info on videos, etc. However.... I do think the resin "soaks" into and/or makes a chemical bond with the epoxy and it will work. It can be put over sanded paint, wood, etc. Here's a video that shows either way will work but I still believe filler over metal is king - th-cam.com/video/wVhQLqPAGVU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Jerry.
You're welcome Pat - have a good weekend my friend :)
good work
Thanks 👍
FIRST!!!
Hmmm, this info will come in handy on my 1996 Dodge Ram.
Thanks for being 1st!
hmm I have an 77 eldorado and am installing fiberglass fender fillers, of course they DON"T fit well. I was thinking scuff with 80 and add more fiberglass where needed or sand where it is too much. The lower bend is completely off and too short. fiberglass to fiberglass is that chemical bond. I will have to paint all these 6 parts. What would you use to rough the surface up ? Would you use an epoxy resin & cloth mat to build up the underside of the filler part ?
Once fiber glass resin has cured it will not form a chemical bond - same with paints and primers. You have to sand it first with 80. Body filler, reinforced body filler, and fiberglass resin and cloth all stick great to fiberglass. It would be your choice as to what will work best for you. If it needs a lot of strength or you are bridging something use the cloth. Hope that helps - if not ask again :)
@@LakesideAutobody Thanks Jerry ! I started the filler extensions today, I roughed them up with 80 grit. Cuts fast. Car will look so much better with the fender extensions done. Cerculean Blue Firemist 1977 Eldo Biarritz with astro roof.
Yup.... gotta have 'tooth' for adhesion.
Thanks for your input Russ :)
your intro reminded me of live wire, both did well imo, have a good weekend Jerry
Cool - what's a few of your favorite bands?