How To Play Shulk In Smash Ultimate

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 507

  • @ZenZenDaijoubu
    @ZenZenDaijoubu 5 ปีที่แล้ว +647

    Shulk main here. Some points that the video missed:
    •The second swing of Air Slash can be delayed for a slight boost in horizontal recovery
    •As Vision activates, you can tilt left or right depending on where the attack came from for more knockback. This will send your opponent behind you, and can only be done while on the ground
    •Performing a successful counter attack with Vision repeatedly will give you less time to activate the counter. It will go back to normal over time
    •Back Slash is stronger when it connects on an opponent's back (kinda obvious, but I don't think it was mentioned in the video)
    Other than those stuff, this video has pretty much all that you need to know about the basics of Shulk

    • @keyki5288
      @keyki5288 5 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      if you time it correctly, picking a monado right before you get hit makes you get 14 frames of invincibility instead of the usual 15 for a spotdodge, its exactly like a spotdodge just less frames and has the advantage over a spotdodge because it is not able to stale

    • @Two_Five08
      @Two_Five08 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Also, Speed mode doesn't make Shulk's recovery garbage since his stats would change for him to have seriously good aerial mobility. Basically he turns into Fox

    • @manongraymond5481
      @manongraymond5481 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      He forgot monado cyclone and so many other things tho

    • @doot8320
      @doot8320 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thx this helps a lot. Ive been trying to pick up shulk and this helps

    • @nessfinesse3195
      @nessfinesse3195 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Y'know I've played smash for 2000+ hours and after playing against countless Shulks and even learning the matchup with one, it didn't occur to me that backslash will deal more damage from behind, I just thought it's if you hit with the actual Monado blade and not the beam. Now that I'm playing Xenoblade and found this out I feel extremely stupid.

  • @hypemachina8926
    @hypemachina8926 5 ปีที่แล้ว +818

    Guy: Shulk, you've fought countless evil in your life, what's your biggest fear?
    Shulk: C A T E R P I L L A R S

    • @rinnnnnnnnnnrinRinOnishi
      @rinnnnnnnnnnrinRinOnishi 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      XD

    • @yurboyisback8049
      @yurboyisback8049 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hype Machina lol

    • @mirandafields3070
      @mirandafields3070 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I mean, I understand here hes coming from, those are some scary motherfuckers

    • @FergalMohan
      @FergalMohan 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Eluca intensifies

    • @SheruMuko
      @SheruMuko 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@mirandafields3070 there was something far worse.
      A three foot long millipede.

  • @indecisitivity1832
    @indecisitivity1832 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1269

    You cannot simply play Shulk. You must master him.

    • @lucawhy6953
      @lucawhy6953 5 ปีที่แล้ว +150

      You must *feel* him

    • @josedeleon6961
      @josedeleon6961 5 ปีที่แล้ว +98

      Only then, will you know the power of the monado.

    • @cloudyronin7479
      @cloudyronin7479 5 ปีที่แล้ว +49

      And by that you just mean short hop and Nair?

    • @harsinsinquin4032
      @harsinsinquin4032 5 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Mr. Monocle you forget my favorite down smash, up smash, side smash, up special, side special. And of course, hitting the tip of back air, it doesn’t do extra damage like other sword fighters but it is just really awesome.

    • @harsinsinquin4032
      @harsinsinquin4032 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I forgot to mention fair dair and up air

  • @art2norrman872
    @art2norrman872 5 ปีที่แล้ว +530

    Shulk has been my secondary for 4 months now and IM REALLY FEELING HIM

    • @paulnoell39
      @paulnoell39 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Arttu Norrman NOW IM REALLY FEELING like liking this comment

    • @harsinsinquin4032
      @harsinsinquin4032 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      What’s your main. Who do you grade higher than an actual god?

    • @art2norrman872
      @art2norrman872 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      @@harsinsinquin4032 Roy our boy

    • @cornman8728
      @cornman8728 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Arttu Norrman roy gang

    • @primalzerg6863
      @primalzerg6863 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      joey_0 Roy gang all the way,

  • @alvaroqr08
    @alvaroqr08 4 ปีที่แล้ว +116

    Never notice this before, but Monado Arts glow appears on Shulks body depending of their "busting power".
    Buster/Smash: Shulk's hands
    Jump/Speed: Shulk's legs
    Shield: Shulk's torso
    Thats an small cool detail ngl

  • @phantommenace5515
    @phantommenace5515 5 ปีที่แล้ว +205

    Back in Smash 4 I didn't know who shulk was and after some training I ended up buying xenoblade chronicles for my 3ds and its all thanks to smash

    • @gamerofthetime
      @gamerofthetime 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      same story bro

    • @eclipseumbreon955
      @eclipseumbreon955 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Marketing tactic from Nintendo

    • @lilmoist5695
      @lilmoist5695 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Sword Master11 same thing happens to me with joker and persona 5

    • @FlorianFlorian573
      @FlorianFlorian573 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Same with me an pac man

    • @presion5628
      @presion5628 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Same but with ultimate and DE

  • @RC32Smiths01
    @RC32Smiths01 5 ปีที่แล้ว +153

    8 months into the game, Shulk is easily one of the freshest characters in the game, and one of my favorite characters because of his gaming origins! Glad to see you do this one!

    • @art2norrman872
      @art2norrman872 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Xenoblade❤

    • @RC32Smiths01
      @RC32Smiths01 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@art2norrman872 Ahhh Xenoblade is a really great game!

    • @josedeleon6961
      @josedeleon6961 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@RC32Smiths01 Riki alone makes it a 10/10 game.

    • @art2norrman872
      @art2norrman872 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RC32Smiths01 Xenoblade 1 and 2 are masterpieces but X is a little meh imo

    • @RC32Smiths01
      @RC32Smiths01 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@art2norrman872 Ahh I agree there my man

  • @shabba8487
    @shabba8487 5 ปีที่แล้ว +267

    Shulk: i fear no man but that thing
    *Caterpillar*
    It scares me

  • @tyb3r695
    @tyb3r695 5 ปีที่แล้ว +123

    I really wanted shulk to be more important in world of light because of his foresight

    • @tyb3r695
      @tyb3r695 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@nyazuredreams i know i expected him to be a key part through out the story not just the very beginning

    • @ahmadkazan7994
      @ahmadkazan7994 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@nyazuredreams Except kirby is no were near the only one who can escape.
      World of light was a big kirby fan fiction that undermines all characters and thier abilities.

    • @miguelgonzalez536
      @miguelgonzalez536 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@ahmadkazan7994 seeing bayo not survive killed me inside

    • @veryexciteddog963
      @veryexciteddog963 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yeah, he coulda had the 神 symbol appear on the Monado when he faced Galeem

    • @AutumnForHire
      @AutumnForHire 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@veryexciteddog963 that would be so cool

  • @joshuabingham142
    @joshuabingham142 5 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Anyone remember Reyn scratching his shoulder in EVERY cutscene in XBC1?

  • @kirkskilling3249
    @kirkskilling3249 4 ปีที่แล้ว +47

    Tries to pick jump Monado. Accidentally backslashes off stage Ok I think I’ll pick cloud now

  • @gliple
    @gliple 5 ปีที่แล้ว +83

    When shulk is around caterpillars he’s not *R E A L L Y F E E L I N G I T*

  • @Enafjer
    @Enafjer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Shulk is absolutely incredible I have used him for years but I always forgot what exactly his arts do. So thank you for this guide.

  • @morghini89
    @morghini89 5 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Yes! Shulk has been my main ever since Smash 4 and he still is my main in Ultimate. I love him so much. You should do either Hero, Mario, or even the Miis next.

  • @MooshPaw
    @MooshPaw 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    For most characters you can put smash art, grab an enemy on the ledge and throw them from it with backthrow. They won't be facing you so you can get a kill by killing yourself by doing backlash while they still don't face you. It's pretty fun to do but probably bad competitively

  • @royalbeast8459
    @royalbeast8459 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I want to see a guide on the Mii's. Specifically the Brawler.

  • @josedeleon6961
    @josedeleon6961 5 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    So It's finally Shulk's tim- IT'S REYN TIME!

  • @BlakeDaCodding
    @BlakeDaCodding 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    3:15 with jump at low percents you can combo down throw into forward air

  • @HerpDerpManitees
    @HerpDerpManitees 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Pretty decent beginners guide, but there's a few things I'd like to mention.
    1: Speed art drastically increases Shulk's airspeed, making it a good recovery art when jump is in cooldown. There are angles where vanilla Shulk can't make it back, but speed Shulk can.
    2: You forgot to mention Speed's real downside, which is that it decreases Shulk's damage by 30%. It's good for gaining stage control but in terms of raw damage there are better options.
    3: Back air is not a good offstage kill move. It's narrow, so you have to time your descent, and it has a lot of start up, making it even harder. Instead, use forward air as a kill move offstage. You can also switch to Smash art and get offstage kills at about 60. It is much easier to land since its basically a 180 in front of Shulk and has very little cooldown making it spammable offstage.
    4: Up tilt doesn't combo into itself very well unless you hit with the last part of it on a standing character. Most of the time, people can jump or airdodge out of the second up tilt.
    5: Shulk actually sucks at juggling, mostly because his up air is really narrow and doesn't cover much space. In addition, his up air (and most of his aerials) have a lot of cooldown. He normally will have to land before being able to throw out another aerial, so he can't chase super hard above him. For that reason, up tilt is mostly for preventing opponents from landing on top of you, rather than a good set up move. Down tilt, f tilt, or forward air are better options out of a low percent neutral air.

  • @sulamanabul506
    @sulamanabul506 5 ปีที่แล้ว +53

    This was very helpful for me! Can you also do Fox please, it doesn’t have to be your priority but I would be grateful.

    • @stephen303
      @stephen303 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, Fox would be fantastic please!!

    • @mountaindrew2964
      @mountaindrew2964 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      i want dr mario lol

  • @kona236
    @kona236 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    you forgot to mention his backslash is really good at recovering back to the stage if you're high into the air. be careful though, if you're too low, he won't snap to the edge

  • @gimmecheesecake
    @gimmecheesecake 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I just joined Smash ultimate i decided to main this character due to his Monado arts and the advantages that comes with each of them i am trash at the game but hopefully i FEEL shulk so i can play him well

  • @imamnajmi3084
    @imamnajmi3084 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Me after learning shulk:I'm the true heir to the monado

  • @goGothitaLOL
    @goGothitaLOL 5 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Do these plz:
    Jigglypuff
    Palutena
    Peach/Daisy
    Pichu
    Meta Knight
    Roy
    Lucario
    Ike

  • @jacobflores8486
    @jacobflores8486 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I started laughing so hard when Chrom spiked him on the ledge 💀 💀 😭

  • @pepijndegroot513
    @pepijndegroot513 5 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    I subbed yesterday and he's already making a vid of my main

  • @beaureynolds8717
    @beaureynolds8717 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Shulk has always been one of my favorites when we was announced, however I would love to see a video on ken

  • @sayonarasth6442
    @sayonarasth6442 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I only played as Shulk twice, I thought he was Link but with a red tunic for some reason. But I really liked his moveset.

  • @tokidoki9001
    @tokidoki9001 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    See shulk’s been my main since sm4sh release but I just keep watching shulk vids cuz I’m addicted to shulk lmao

  • @Lightning-2153
    @Lightning-2153 5 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'd like to see a video on the Mii fighters. I'd be curious to see what you think is the best combination of specials

    • @wrongtree4975
      @wrongtree4975 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think we can predict certain things about Swordfighter

  • @ryanh_dev
    @ryanh_dev 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    a little note on the speed art- even though your jump height is lowered you still have really good momentum so you can use it off stage to recover if jump wont do it.

  • @Damian-xt9cd
    @Damian-xt9cd 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Please do Yoshi, he recently became my main and would love to see how I could use him better

  • @daidact9035
    @daidact9035 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I'd really appreciate a Pit/Dark Pit vid. You honestly could just roll Pit and Pitoo into one video seeing as their only difference is side specials. Either way keep up the good work

    • @rinnnnnnnnnnrinRinOnishi
      @rinnnnnnnnnnrinRinOnishi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Their arrows are different too. Pits has more control while dark pits is more powerful

  • @bwcore8-bit24
    @bwcore8-bit24 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    *_I'M ALWAYS READY FOR MONANDO MONDAY'S!!!_*

  • @manongraymond5481
    @manongraymond5481 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Speed Art is so fun to Short Hop nair people across the stage

  • @jannicwestrich1290
    @jannicwestrich1290 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank god no Hero content! Maybe Wolf or Samus for next week? :)

  • @TensuiTM
    @TensuiTM 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wait...
    Shulk with shield and the metal face spirit would be kind of op since metal face makes you metal and giant and has one slot, and since you get a buff for having two spirits from the same game it would be unstoppable.(For a little bit of time)

  • @killershark1826
    @killershark1826 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I'm really feeling it

  • @foxmcstuffin8501
    @foxmcstuffin8501 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Chotopuss. Sorry about the dumb comment, i should be more aware. Anyways, i would love to see a Sheik or Fox guide! I love both of these characters and it would be awesome seeing a breakdown on them.

  • @elijahw7085
    @elijahw7085 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    IM REALLY FEELING IT

  • @TheRook__if
    @TheRook__if 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    *Nice to finally see you do the only good anime character*

    • @AllSonial
      @AllSonial 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What do you mean, he did Game and Watch before this.

    • @josedeleon6961
      @josedeleon6961 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@enigma7129 Wario is my waifu.

    • @foxmcstuffin8501
      @foxmcstuffin8501 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Dont forget isabelle

  • @rinnnnnnnnnnrinRinOnishi
    @rinnnnnnnnnnrinRinOnishi 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    HOLY SHIT! I never even thought of setting lb to jump! Thats way more comfortable than X for jump

  • @tenderquirkydragon8643
    @tenderquirkydragon8643 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I'm really feeling it!

  • @kariearoblox7571
    @kariearoblox7571 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    These are my combos:
    1.Buster+speed
    2.Smash+shield
    3.jump+buster
    Oh and
    Buster+smash
    For it’s legit the most offensive types

  • @milkinobama
    @milkinobama 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I’m about halfway through xenoblade so I think I’ll try him out afterwards.
    But the smash community has got Shulk’s character completely wrong on how he acts.

  • @pondwithducks3092
    @pondwithducks3092 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'd love to see your take on a Pit / Dark Pit guide!

  • @podiacider
    @podiacider 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I’m pretty sure speed Monado also decreases your attack

  • @Dragoon_Kenji27
    @Dragoon_Kenji27 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Bro that death from crom up b is probably thee funiest thing to see its so stupid how that kills

  • @sethdwhaley6213
    @sethdwhaley6213 ปีที่แล้ว

    you can also up-throw or up-tilt to up-B

  • @PoPo-qp8zq
    @PoPo-qp8zq ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Not sure why I watch this, my skill is too low to ever master him, I just here to see my boy Shulk

  • @cyber_zenith1501
    @cyber_zenith1501 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’ve mained Shulk since like 2 months ago. All I can say now is:
    *I’M REALLY FEELING THE MONADO’S POWER!!!*

  • @SewrRat
    @SewrRat 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I would love to see inkling next

  • @sirkeegio2256
    @sirkeegio2256 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you for this I have recently been looking into maining Shulk and this was very helpful. Also can you do Mewtwo next?

  • @DestinyFY
    @DestinyFY 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    MY MAIN HAS ARRIVEDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @oliverkozickiphotography
    @oliverkozickiphotography 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m as hulk main. Thanks for making this vid.

  • @BlakeDaCodding
    @BlakeDaCodding 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Diddy kong!

  • @Augur_RAzul
    @Augur_RAzul 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic video man. Thank you so much! Subbing!

  • @joeham6547
    @joeham6547 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    PLEASE do villager guide next

  • @_shurhat_8991
    @_shurhat_8991 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Diddy Kong would be cold for next week

  • @benwallace340
    @benwallace340 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks this vid was very helpful

  • @jakeiguess5009
    @jakeiguess5009 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    "Shulk is basically 6 characters at once." Hero: *allow me to introduce myself*

  • @philipkeane6417
    @philipkeane6417 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your best video yet.

  • @tinytiger2463
    @tinytiger2463 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    i main kirby and my friend mains shulk so i need to master these arts with kirby

  • @necroz9607
    @necroz9607 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Do Puff or Kirby next :3

  • @taptoentername
    @taptoentername 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you do Robin next? I just picked him (or her) up and robin js really fun to use. So it'd be nice to see you make a video of robin.

  • @shroomoid9403
    @shroomoid9403 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Idk why but my first reaction when I saw Chrom as the test dummy was "CHROM DUNBAN C H R O M D U N B A N"

  • @LiorRonen
    @LiorRonen 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do Yoshi next

  • @AverageHandle_
    @AverageHandle_ 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Press 🅰️ in the air and start with a 🅱️ move

  • @Rayan01012
    @Rayan01012 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Zero suit samus next please. I need to destroy my friend who sais that she only gets picked because she is thicc😂

  • @pinoy_boy6112
    @pinoy_boy6112 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mii Swordfighter, I'm not ashamed!

  • @r3mixfireworkz845
    @r3mixfireworkz845 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    IM REALLY FEELIN IT

  • @flavor_text8757
    @flavor_text8757 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Shulk’s down b with Monado art breaks shield

  • @eonbree8593
    @eonbree8593 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    i laughed so hard at 10:50

  • @myhonestopinion7658
    @myhonestopinion7658 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    How to play jigglypuff next please

  • @totsukakatsu
    @totsukakatsu 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I M R E A L L Y F E L L I N I T

  • @chenwinterjason8369
    @chenwinterjason8369 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    0:18
    I want to tell you that the game have it's disk (in Japan)

  • @j.l4429
    @j.l4429 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do a Lucina/Marth guide

  • @blataybragg7778
    @blataybragg7778 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Im voting Bowser Jr. for next week

  • @No-nr1hl
    @No-nr1hl 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The only thing Shulk feels when he sees a caterpillar is F E A R

  • @josephellana85
    @josephellana85 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you I,m a shalk main but I don,t know his move set well

  • @Lythen07
    @Lythen07 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I really find Cloud and Shulk similar no idea why

  • @TheDarkSammich
    @TheDarkSammich 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wouldn't mind seeing one of these for robin.

  • @cranberry221
    @cranberry221 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Pit/Dark Pit would be nice

  • @gumballfan13
    @gumballfan13 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please do Ice Climbers. I love them so much.

  • @djpeacannon8461
    @djpeacannon8461 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I don't even play Shulk. I'm just a Kirby player looking to learn that sweet sweet Neutral B.

  • @ResonaNSS
    @ResonaNSS 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Robin, the magical tactician

  • @thecavalry5656
    @thecavalry5656 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    shulk main here to say buster dthrow into fsmash is good and puts like 50% on the enemy

  • @mistygerkin8854
    @mistygerkin8854 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    notifications finally worked

  • @DestinyFY
    @DestinyFY 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Please do a Roy Guide

  • @tjknight
    @tjknight 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    My dude really doing the whole roster, huh

  • @robinnouwen8267
    @robinnouwen8267 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Every shulk I’ve played against only used neutral air and it fucking worked

  • @theo_vo9057
    @theo_vo9057 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    How to play mewtwo pleeease he even got some new buffs, perfect time🔥

  • @kevinpatrick9181
    @kevinpatrick9181 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    They should bring Shulk in Xenoblade Chronicles 3.

  • @Sully-dt5ox
    @Sully-dt5ox 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Shulk absolutely destroys Heavies, but as soon as a sonic or pichu show up hes dead

  • @narolthatepsmith8271
    @narolthatepsmith8271 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m trying shulk because I like his gimmick

  • @fordprefect5104
    @fordprefect5104 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Please do Lucina.

  • @oraandrip5266
    @oraandrip5266 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is the Mon-airdo's power

  • @quakf
    @quakf 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Can you to toon link next?

  • @natemarchione9379
    @natemarchione9379 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    For the next video could it be a guide on Samus/ dark samus

  • @kommentarschreiber1611
    @kommentarschreiber1611 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow thats much info

    • @LuckyOwI777
      @LuckyOwI777 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yep. hulk is, imo, the most difficult character to master. Your input have to be so precise, and you have to know the properties of each Art, when to use them, ect. And then you have to actual learn his normal moves and how to play him, just like any other character, lol. He just has a lot more to learn, and perfect