The big hinderance for Shulk’s popularity is really difficulty. I enjoy learning all these character specific techs but there aren’t many others who would put in that much time on a character especially if it isn’t their main.
sounds like I should pick up shulk, I've spent so much time playing Steve and learning him to the point where he's almost as good as my main. But I don't have Steve as a secondary or something.
I mained shulk in smash 4. with how they changed him and altered him , he is for sure stronger , but honestly less fun. not because he is better but because of all the mechanics changes of both the base game and himself as a character
@@renmojito6796 I would say they made him more fun for people who didn’t want to main him. Without these changes, he would definitely be suffering a worse fate.
@@firstwaddledee9182 Are you sure they made him more fun for non mains or just made him easier for them ? Because I can understand why you'd mix those notions up Edit: I don't completely agree about the changes part. Some changes sure but not all. For example his bair had a hitbox where he would kick you with his Nike shoes. They removed that . The multiplied power of the monado while on one hand improves his output, the negatives get multiplied too. So the weight difference makes his mobility awkward at times. Not being able to run through shields anymore killed his speed pivot pressure. And probably more stuff I could think of if I didn't just wake up.
@@renmojito6796 the big change I was thinking of was the art wheel. That made the arts much less of a chore to use, which I thought would have been a big reason why players were turned off from him in high or low level.
Buster's reduced kill power is actually often a strength. With reduced knockback, the percent brackets your hits send opponents too far away shift up slightly, essentially allowing you to continue using combos that rack up high damage where base Shulk would knock them too far away.
From what I heard Cloud has a pretty steep learning curve too. But if I could learn him, I could learn Shulk too. I am a devout follower of the mantra “you don’t choose your main, your main chooses you”. There has to be that one character that just clicks with you, whether it’s in their playing style or even simply their aesthetic and backstory. To me that character was Cloud, and me maining him was enough to get me into FF7 even. I think the same logic applies to secondaries too. I’m not going to main him and use him all the time but he’s someone good to throw out when I feel like it and when I get better at him.
"Shulk approaches situations much more dynamically" Meanwhile, the clip is showing 2 speed shulks repeatedly just, nairing each other's shield over and over. Very dynamic.
Shulk main. This was a great overview, and I particularly like that you mentioned his handling. He 'feels clunky' when you pick him up. One thing I would add, though, that contributes to this impression is his horrendous air acceleration. Every characters can, in the air, change their current trajectory by drifting forwards/backwards on the control stick. Shulk can too, but his ability to adjust his trajectory is minimal, and it's not helped with any of the Monado Arts. Basically, even his jumps feel commital, because he's basically on a linear trajectory from the moment he inputs the jump. For a character who cares so much about spacing, that's a major hinderance. (There's also a few other things to note, but much smaller: Air Slash won't autograb the ledge unless you've timed it for a fairly precise sweetspot. And his Vision (counter) is notoriously unreliable. There's a decent amount of 'jank' Shulk mains have to fight against when they play the character.)
Can you explain to me why it is that hes so hard tho? Yeah he has terrible movement bit it seems to me the only thing hard to master about him is his Dial Storage.
@@vick7868 Shulk is constantly managing resources. A number of the Monado Arts change his movement speed/fall speed, which changes the timing for his aerial attacks and his recovery. He's not technically demanding in the way that combo characters like Pikachu and Peach are demanding. But nearly all his moves are high-commitment, so you can never really be 'lazy' in neutral. It's a bit mentally draining, where those attacks and even his jumps feel commital. (This is also why virtually every Shulk develops an overuse of Nair and Fair. Those are preciously spammable.) And the input for the Monado Arts, while simple, requires excellent reflexes. (There's a number of multihits and kill confirms that Shield Art can escape, but most of those require amazing reaction speed.) All of the Monado Arts have weaknesses, so if a situation goes south, you need to be ready to deactivate the art, or swap arts, at a moment's notice, or Shulk can get beaten pretty badly. Then there's all the surprisingly inactive hitboxes, the multihits that don't connect, a notoriously unreliable Counter: all of that is jank he shouldn't have to deal with, but does. I still love the character. He's tons of fun, and it's a gameplay style I enjoy immensely. But he certainly doesn't feel good to pick up right away. Play Shulk for an hour on Elite Smash, and I think you'll notice some of those issues.
Plus his counter being more mediocre on air. Its mor better on ground. The counter doesn’t really cover much, and misses because of how janky its placement is.
@@vick7868 Aside from the ones mentioned by the previous commenter... You have to live with the fact that all his attacks are only virtually plus on block when properly spaced and executed, otherwise he is always punishable due to his fastest move's range being terrible (jab and grab's range has been nerfed to the point of being risky or near useless to use as a counter) while Air Slash, despite being 10f and a decent oos, is very commital. DS, while a hard tech to utilize in a proper match, is just one of the many techs known with Shulk. The basic ones like MALLC and BD, kill confirms like the just frame Butterfly Step and Monado Cyclone, and all the ridiculous tech acronyms that Shulk mains are notoriously known for ever since Smash 4. With DS and the new Ultimate engine, some have died out of favor due to Shulk not being unusable anymore, while the others that thrived either became easier to execute or have been replaced by an offshoot of DS. You could argue that many of these aren't essential to Shulk's gameplay so they do not count, but that statement also applies to DS.
Bro, true freaking story here, I turned on the game one time and went to character select just to see that he's there. LOL. I was thinking of the whole "Everyone is here!" tagline and was like, "What about Shulk?". Yeah, he was there, and I don't remember ever playing against one. I don't even remember _unlocking_ _him_ .
@@andersolson44 Why play generic anime sword boy? What about Marth mains? Lucina mains? Hero mains? Cloud or Sephiroth mains? We legit just forgot that Shulk's not the only anime sword boy?
@@mistywww3199 That doesn't matter. They're anime swordsmen. Doesn't mean the others aren't extremely popular in the country of their games' origin. You see it as generic because they're more niche than the worldwide acclaimed Final Fantasy that I'm sure were also boosted due to Kingdom Hearts' popularity. Point is that they're also anime swordsmen.
@@taidakun_ig Honestly I hate how FF fans always say "They're more iconic than the other swordfighters" or in Sephiroths case, "He's not AN anime swordfighter, he's THE anime swordfighter" which is extremely stupid. Just because more people know them doesn't make them any different. They're still characters who use swords.
This is 100% true. Picked up shulk early due to how “easy” he was, but when I got to higher levels I realized that he was insanely hard and I spend a long time trying to grind him. Now, I still main him after years, and still can barely remember the order of the monado arts
What exactly is that hard about him? You gotta remember where the Arts are on the wheel and Dial Storage, the latter being the one actually hard thing he has. Learn that and you get frame 1 invincibility and all the safety in the world. I dont get it. He isnt BABY baby but he isn't top 5 hardest imo.
@@vick7868 Shulk isnt necessarily hard but still a Top 5-10 Hardest Characters Contestor I deffinitly agree Kazuya, Peach, Ice Climbers being harder but who then? The other Characters don't have to deal with a Mechanic that can benefit the Opponent more than it could benefit you and neither need to learn to use what makes Shulk good correctly. You also actually have to space, while most of his moves relatively save on shield anyway, he can still get rushdowned and has a bad disadvantage due where his Startup is on his moves. Yes, Shield Art but even that can be abused and is more of a Lifesaver against Multihits. And you mentioned Dial Storage, constantly using and optimizing that makes him deffinitly Top 5 In theory it isnt hard to do but to actually use it usefully for example with Kill Confirms is a Different Bread. Again while Shulk isnt that hard, which other Characters that are not seen as Top 5 need to Learn more? I could pick up any other Character that doesnt have his own Mechanics and learn them way faster and way quicker. Shulks like getting a Shoto as Random if you didnt learn them, you are not performing well because you havent optimized how to actually use that Specific Character.
@@imnotgonnasugarcoatit as someone who knows how to play the FGCs, they are all kinda easy when you learn how to do a quarter circle, the exception being Kazuya. Outside of Shulk I'd pin Pac-Man, Mega Man, Icies, Lucas (DJCZ movement and combos), Sheik, Steve, Paisy and potentially Robin (due to tome and sword stuff) as being harder to optimize. Shulk I can definitely see being top 10 tho.
Shulk is like the strongest character in the game if you've perfectly mastered him and have irl monados so you can predict future Same case as sheik, on paper they are broken, but in reality they're too difficult to play and master
@@gerragotheallidile True, but when there's characters as good as them but with way less work to put in to be good with (like palutena, lucina or pikachu) there's no real reason to play them unless you like the characters
Great vid, as a Shulk Main I can say most of your points are accurate. He’s not an instant easy-mode pick like Joker or Aegis, you actually have to learn more than just BNB combos to fully grasp the Monado’s Power. I love playing him, not just cause I’m a Xenoblade fan but it’s satisfying to get a Buster string into Smash read. His mobility arts are also satisfying, it’s always tempting to go for a Nair > Fair train offstage with Speed, or edgeguard with Jump. And of course the best part is denying zero to deaths with the Shield Art cheese. All in all, Shulk is definitely one of the best characters but HAS to be practiced. He’s my favorite character though and I’m so happy that he’s good in Ultimate.
I think saying joker is an instant easy mode for wins takes away from his playerbase. Joker also has a lot of skillful tech as well. Gun has a ton of potential, he has drag down combos in order to optimize his punish game. There is also things that only a few jokers at top lvl can do like footstool down gun.
Nah man, as soon as Arsene pops out (and believe me, it happens WAY too frequently) the matchup becomes so much easier for Joker, when it was already easy in the first place. The whole point of having a comeback mechanic is if you’re losing, it makes up for it. But whenever you’re able to farm the comeback mechanic at any time throughout a stock, then that directly flies in the face of what a comeback mechanic should be. Joker is 100% baby mode.
One aspect I think is important with Shulk is that moment to moment decision making from players becomes telegraphed due to the Monado Arts. Whenever an art switch comes up, your opponent knows exactly what strategy you are going for, and can adapt to counter it much more directly than other characters. Watch a recent Shuton vs Kome set, and you can see Shuton switch styles whenever Kome changes arts.
Thats true. You can also see this with a charecter like Pyra and Mythra, where when you are playing one there is a clear game plan, (Mythra for raking up damage, Pyra for the kill.) This can be said for a lot of comeback mechanic characters as well, although that doesn't seem to stop Arsene from killing you at 30.
It’s honestly funny about how many people are apprehensive about playing Shulk, he’s actually pretty easy to pick up, it’s really just mastering him that’s difficult, but what you can do with him as someone learning him is really fun
It was always strange to me that despite Shulk’s massive potential (and cheese-Thanks, Monado Arts changing while in hitstun), Shulk has only a few select pros that play him and do well with him at all. Now that you explained it, I totally feel the same whenever I play Shulk out of random pick in arenas. Those highs are so amazing when they land, but it’s incredibly frustrating when the opponent doesn’t die at around 150% and Smash art is on cooldown. Or when I need to rack up damage, yet I get too greedy with Buster and take 100% for it or Speed Art causes me to zoom past the enemy I was trying to combo. I still think Shulk is fun to play, but he’s a little too unwieldy for my tastes. Oh btw, I’m curious if you’re gonna eventually make a “Why Only MKLeo Plays Byleth” video, or just the standard “Why No One Plays Byleth” episode.
Shulk can actually be so cheesy sometimes, whenever I use him against someone like bayonetta I can literally just switch to shield mid combo and the combo will just stop comboing
I would love to see a “why no one plays Pokémon trainer” so many good players have dropped them and it’s super disappointing since they are theoretically a top 5 character.
I imagine it’s for similar reasons to the one mentioned here. Switching between two character who balance out each others weaknesses is fine, but when you have three distinct fighters with much less defined weaknesses all in one that can be pretty overwhelming to handle as a player because it now means you have to devote a substantial amount of time to three characters instead of one or even two.
I actually changed mains to Shulk over a year ago. I still don’t feel like I’ve scratched the surface of his Monados. Dial storage isn’t the easiest thing in the world and he lacks a good mash option for online. But I’m staying with it Bc I just really like this character
@@dantelawrence4676 litle does the OP kno, Shulk technically he as more than one monado. 👀 monado 3 at endgame and featured in xeno 3’s cosmetics option.
Thanks for clarifying this isn’t a definitive essay on why literally nobody plays the character. There’s several great Shulk players here in Santa Cruz, Sandfall and Wajie just to name a few (Wajie recently picked up Shulk, previously played Ridley and Wolf). The character is definitely rare, but not unseen, and one of my personal favorites.
I think the biggest problem with Shulk is that his performance floor is low. If his Monado are not used he's a fairly slow swordie. His long range is great but his moves are really sluggish. Worse, if you're using the wrong Monado at the time, you're even disadvantaged for the scenario you are in. Jump or Shield art when trying to do damage and you're not racking up much. Smash art when you got thrown off the stage and your recovery is worse now. This means if your Monado management slips up at all, you're suddenly a very mediocre character. The difference compared to the Aegis, is that Mythra's base properties are great. Her kill power isn't even that bad with her extremely fast smashes and lightning buster still able to close out stocks at decent percents. So if you can't maximize Pyra due to whatever is going on, just staying in Mythra gives you an astounding baseline. Similarly Joker is a great character even without Arsen and even if you fail to ever maximize Arsen you still have a reliably fast character with absurd tools like Gun. You can easily close out games with Mythra or base Joker, and it's part of why they are top tier. When Pyra and Mythra or Joker are executing perfectly, they are godlike. When they are executing poorly they are still great. Shulk is godlike when executing perfectly but kind of mediocre when executing poorly, which makes him much less consistent. Consistency and ease of execution really are huge factors in top level play where you need to do well match after match, stock after stock, all the way to the end.
@@ToastyYokai You mean for online quickplay? Isabelle is generally considered not that good. Her main tools are her fair and bair slingshot, then her mine and her fishingrod. An attentive opponent won't be hit by the mine reliably and the fishing rod is good only if you can keep from being rushed down. Her recovery is also risky as a lot of people can pop her balloons. Most people consider her on the lower end of characters unfortunately. The game is balanced enough that if you are willing to put in the time and effort to learn Isabelle and her tricks you can still do well, but as far as "easily", she is going to be harder more than easier to do well with.
@@ToastyYokai Good luck then! Her fishing rod is unique, and I think it gets a lot better with terrain you can hide on top of. Of course a lot of complex terrain stages are banned in tournament level play.
I played shulk for months after playing Xenoblade DE Until very recently when I started playing Mewtwo over Shulk again I was terrible at Shulk at first finally got good with him and then took a break from the game and was terrible with Shulk again
My Dad plays a lot of Smash and he only played Shulk for 1,5 years, but he NEVER used Monado arts and still was able to win in Elite Smash. On a Mid level you actually can do very good with Basic Shulk, he ist still a solid Charakter
Personally I love how shulk’s art cooldowns mimic how shulks arts are used in his home game. You gotta be careful not to waste your arts in case something bad happens and you ain’t got the art to deal with it, it’s amazing how the way shulk plays in xenoblade was so well translated to smash. Yes I’m a shulk main how could you tell.
I don't play this game competitively, nor online without friends much either, but Shulk is probably one of the characters I've put the most time into; mostly because I'm a massive Xenoblade fan (I've been playing him since the midnight release of Smash 3DS lol) Anyway, before I get too far off my actual point, it's interesting to see videos like this; it's nice to learn more about the perception and specifics of a fighter I like a lot - both as a character and playstyle in Smash
I'm a Shulk main I've played him for about 5 years (since I was about 10 I wanna say) He's a really cool character imo. I'm a xenoblade fan lol only reason I play him, good game, I recommend it!
What I like about shulk is that he can overcome any matchup thanks to monado arts But he still has many weaknesses Imo and each monado art can backfire making him inconsistent
Great video! Didn't expect such a decent analysis, but I loved the points you made and everything was clear. With Shulk I really do think its about consistency. Shulk is a very whacky character and with that, basically disregards any form of consistency at a high level. I don't think Shulk is anywhere near the most difficult character to play from a technical standpoint, but he's mostly a very mentally challenging character. You have to always make the right decision or you'll lose your stock. Can't wait to upload my reaction to this!
Love this series! And when you’re done you should do “why everyone plays _____” 😁Also, your voice and thought process sound like you are a mixture of Esam and Fatality if they had a baby. Keep up the great work!
Just discovered your channel can't wait for more smash content. Would like to see a character guide with your main even if there's alot of guides out already you can always learn something new from someone
This is a channel that I’ll expect to see a huge jump in subscribers from. Can’t wait to see why no one plays meta knight because i love the character in ultimate and wanna see if the same reasons show up in the video
Meta Knight had a huge fall from grace in Ultimate. He went from broken, to slightly overtuned, to garbage in the span of just three games. It's insane.
You summed it perfectly, especially with how much investment you have to put into him. Even someone like Marth or Sephiroth doesn't require that much investment
Really enjoying this series! Maybe something you could add in are thoughts our quotes from top reps of the Characters? Like not a full fledged interview but just a couple sentences on why they think they have a lower player base. Could be interesting to get their insight.
This was awesome. As a main of this character, I would love to see a video on Ryu in smash ultimate. He’s gotten some notoriety as of late, but he’s still fairly rare.
"If he's a heavy weight like bowser, who is hard to kill, switch to smash art and beat his ass!" That caught me off guard and had me laughing my ass off. That explanation was perfect lol
I've always compared Shulk playing as a character who essentially 6 echo fighters glued together so you have to basically learn 6 different sets of matchups which is a ridiculous amount of things to learn
one thing i feel went unmentioned was his smash attacks having two main hitboxes. its not much but ive learned it can do some real damage if managed well
Wow, thanks for this video. Now that I have more of an understanding, I kinda want to pick him up as my main out of spite. The challenge of mastering such a character excites me.
Shulk is just has a lot to micromanage as well. Something you didn’t mention is dial storage which lets him store the first 10 frame of this monado wheel animation and for quicker selection but you can reduce your end lag to just 4 frames doing dial storage which helps tremendously. There’s a lot going on with Shulk XD
Been playing shulk ever since the game's launch and I mostly agree with your points, though I'd like to bring some more precision on things you missed or didn't develop: First, I know you did cover how shulk can break combos but that's precisely why exploiting his weaknesses is much easier said than done. For instance Buster or Jump shulk can dish out a lot of damage but you can't really take advantage of the arts' drawbacks since he can just switch to shield or speed in a single frame. The same applies to smash if someone tries to kill him with a multi hit move (which are completely invalidated in order to kill him), and Shulk doesn't have to use that art anyways if he's at kill percent himself (trust me he still kills very early without it) As a followup to that, MALLC is a tech that's still usable but it's not used that much, mostly due to the existence of dial flash (exploiting the fact that the dial comes out on frame 1) to do pretty much the same but faster and giving the option to activate whatever art is needed or none at all, as opposed to MALLC forcing you to use the art you chose before landing. It's much less predictable in regards to the landing's timing and gives Shulk some invulnerability upon landing (actually so does MALLC but you didn't cover it, just adding some precision) since monado arts give Shulk as many Iframes as a roll would (commonly refered to as a monadodge) The last thing I can think of is that some of Shulk's kill confirms have him switching arts, which makes him able to kill very early with no danger of getting cheesed. And they're not that hard to learn, besides most of them requiring some form of dial storage (what makes neutral B come out on frame 1). Examples of those include Monado Cyclone (speed uair -> smash uair, kills at around 50 depending on character), Monado Purge (buster Nair -> smash upB, kill at 50/60 as well), or the infamous buster dthrow -> neutral upB that kills at 80 or so. Besides that as I said your points are pretty valid, I just think it would have been nice to mention those since they give some perspective on Shulk's "weaknesses".
The biggest reason why I play Shulk is that he's very effective as a character without using combos, which is a system I absolutely despise learning in Smash and Smash alone. The extent of his combo play involves a very low input count (the important ones that do not involve TAS-like skills tend to max out at 4 inputs excluding jumping and dashing) but requires high execution skills.
Honestly... he's still one of my go-to characters. I mained him in Smash 4. I actually prefer to fight in his base. Considering that his Art don't last long... a good opponent knows to stay back and you miss your opportunity to strike. But, if you master the basics you'll rarely need the Arts.
Shulk is mid tier without monado arts they’re definately needed. Sure against a worse opponent you can use base Shulk but it’s undeniable that monado arts are what take him from mid tier to top tier.
For me, the Arts are for Capitalizing & Emergency Options. They're not to be abused just cause you can. If you learn base Shulk to the MAX you can make Smash & Buster all you need. Learning to maneuver Jump & Speed becomes less necessary. You can still learn them if going from Base Movements to Arts Movements & back to Base doesn't throw you off.
I liked your point about how Shulk can't autocancel his shop aerials. Little things like that about how a character handles, regardless of their tier placement or other weaknesses, can have a big influence on the player's impression of the character and not a lot of people talk about it. Probably a lot of people try Shulk, play him like they would any other swordie, don't understand why he feels so clunky, and give up on him.
I've been playing Shulk since the beginning of Ultimate and I kid you not, many people get very surprised when I tell them I main him because it's so rare to find on these days. I'm glad that there are many people who respect those that play him because I always felt like we don't get enough representation. If they ever make another Smash game, I do hope they make it so that Shulk gets more representation
Respect huh? Lucky you. My friend group (casual) bans me from playing him because I always win with him. Like killing at 60% with smash art, or easy edgeguards with jump art, or surviving to like 180% with shield, they think he's broken and gang up on me if i pick him lol. It sucks for me cuz he is literally the funnest character in the game, most characters are so straightforward and boring compared to Shulk!
@@Layazeroda I do have the occasional salty player that complains that me playing Shulk is "broken" but they never realise how time consuming it is to learn his playstyle. In fact, one of the people that I played against who thought Shulk was broken tried to use him against me. He said that Speed Monado was useless. That really hurt me.
This is why, sometimes i feel like monando arts on other characters would be a better showcasing of its true power Have you seen kirby with monando? Or hell even steve's blocks? Insane.
Fantastic and informative video! Shulk is definitely the strongest character that goes under the radar, because no one wants to put in the time to use him.
I really corrin. Its very satisfying to punish with this munchy claw attack. The one that spits water then somehow ppl always get hit with the piranha attack. Same with the downwards spike slash into a forward smash attack, ppl get offguard when i miss the 1st part then punish with a 2nd.
I find shulk very interesting but i remember finding very awkward that he has to uso many of his engages from the back, reversing nair or attacking with bair. so his common attacks already require advanced skills. Also the short duration of the arts makes the window of opportunity for a newbie very short. so in each fight you practice like 20-30s of the main arts. so if you wanna get good with speed it has to be from many many games. On top of that if you wanna get good with Art X against opponent Y at Z% its millions of games to get the muscle memory and intuition. So i saw myself forced to play kinda gimmicky at some points, "well in this situation its a shield or a smash hail mary"
I love Shulk...I use to main him, depending which art you using. You gonna need a big brain to learn his counter risk or optional counterclaim. Sometimes Jump Art might save him from getting launch to the blast-zone. Frame data and mobility are you're most attractive attributes advantage to help him to gain his upper-hand. But you must be careful, the Arts won't last for like 5.20 seconds. You will get more circumstance experience with your life is in risk. Shield Art can aid Shulk to maintain his life if he's at kill percentage so it will wears off very quickly. So you need to save it as soon as possible too not use it all. Smash Art has to risky option for Shulk for getting early ko's and getting launch very easy don't use it when times if you're at higher percentage.
I do, but I'm mainly a Robin(f) main so there is that. When I was playing smash4 was a though choice I never rly got able to decide one of them, but with SmashU I finally decided to stick with Robin and have Shulk as a 3rd Pocket Character.
As a Xeno fan from 2013 I was so happy having Shulk in smash but he feels weird, not totally accurate and his final smash could've been something more badass (I always thought that) Now in Ultimate he's nerfed asf and his face is kinda strange. I love Shulk as a character but I can't use him in smash, It ain't fun, the same thing applies to Pyra/Mythra.
What would you rather his Final Smash be? I mean, from a mechanical perspective, Chain Attack is basically the perfect sort of Super Move for him to use in this scenario. I guess there could be something more narratively focused? Like controlling the Bionis and having it swing that giant sword of light as seen in the game's intro cutscene. Sure, technically Shulk never actually does that, but he certainly could by the end. Though I guess that'd be a pretty big spoiler for anyone not familiar with the game (not that this stopped Fiora from happening in Ultimate, of course). Or maybe it could fundamentally stay as Chain Attack, but its functionality would change to be more like a Brawl Final Smash? Where you're actually doing something to select moves for Rikki and Dunban mid-battle rather than just summoning a cutscene on top of the opponent. Or maybe its just the animation in specific? Like if we got to see a Break/Topple/Daze happen in the cutscene, maybe with Shulk using Monado Cyclone as the Topple move for a finisher more grandiose than a simple sword slash? Well, I guess if that particular move was the finisher then the Daze part wouldn't happen, but still, it'd look cool. In the end it really just depends on what, exactly, you're disappointed about with the Final Smash. I feel like what we got was fitting, thematically/mechanically appropriate, and generally in line with other Final Smashes in the game, but, y'know, its not like it'd be impossible to improve in one way or another.
I haven't found Pyra and Mythra feel weird in smash. They really refined the swap to make it smooth to use at any time and it's really the best a swap/stance character has ever been. No dealing with the longer swap time or cycling of Pokemon Trainer or the totally different movesets. No dealing with the really clunky Monando durations and cycing. Pyra could do with being a bit fundamentally stronger and Mythra maybe a tad weaker, but the character is very refined.
@@TheEmperorGulcasa Bit late, but the thing that makes them seem a bit off to me is that in XC2, Pyra is the weak character and Mythra is the strong one
@@bfpncsr3608 The funny thing is that they work about the same as blades in XC2. Of course lore wise Pyra is mostly just a slightly above average blade and Mythra is god tier in all aspects. But ingame Pyra is clunky and mediocre except she has very high crit damage, and can be used for really strong single blows of damage (or rather, to set up powerful DOT from Volcano or something). Mythra, meanwhile, can absolutely spam out her arts (and thus her specials) thanks to her crit refresh, but her individual arts hits are pretty weak (though her specials are strong and also spammable). So Mythra is the one who spams arts and builds guage and does most of the heavy lifting, then you swap to Pyra for one nuclear blade combo. Just like how you rack up damage and play neutral with Mythra, then kill with one good hit from Pyra.
one of the biggest things i continusly dealt with is the fact his moves are so laggy in a online place where theres even more delay for things to come out you basicly got to read the future where your opponent is more then what you do in xenoblade 1
Do one on ice climbers. I feel like it would be similar to this as well. They is the theoretical best character as if mastered perfectly it would be like being in a 2 player combo all the time. Get grabbed? Dead, no matter the percent. Their just like really hard though.
I mained Shulk in Smash 4 as well as used that to get into Xenoblade as a series. While he was considered Bad (with potential) in that game, the less extreme elements of the Monado Arts and probably slower game engine made it easier to juggle the different modes he could be in for me. Improving the Art effects (while worsening the drawbacks) did a lot for making him better in Ultimate, but also so much more frustrating for me to play. Let alone everything regarding the Dial; it's opened up so much for Shulk's options but my muscle memory is related to a specific amount of B button mashing and I just never could adjust over the years. Pyra and Mythra were the nail in the coffin. Significantly easier to autopilot, still has some of the tactical switching fundamentals Shulk had in the Monado Arts, and I wanted a XC2 character in from Ultimate's release because of Shulk getting me into the franchise. It was sad to move on but seeing Kome succeed with him since Smash 4 is heartwarming at least.
To make shulk work: I feel like vision should have some sort of gimmick. Maybe when he is high percentage, his vision becomes more powerful, referring to the fact that it normally only activates when you are in danger. Maybe if it was something like bats within. Another change I would love would be to change backslash, a meme move, useless, instead, make it stream edge, or make it rewarding, and not so laggy. Another thing I would love would be for battle soul to be in his move set, it would activate and give you back an art on cooldown and in exchange you gain percentage, it would be crazy.
This made me want to switch to Shulk. This video is kinda about how he's hard to learn, but because of it, I understand him now in a way I didn't before, and I think he's unironically perfect for me.
You explined this perfectly. I had the exact same thoughts. Which is bit sad. Xenoblade 1 is my favorite game on the switch. I love using Shulk's final smash and see 7, Dunban and Riki battle with him, yet he is not fun to play with.
I feel like inkling is a good contendor for this series I rarely see her at all online, offline, and, while I don't really watch tournements super often, I rarely see her at all. She's a top tier character with good combos and doesn't really have trouble killing.
i’m a shulk main through and through the first game is extremely special to me personal even so i have to stick with him no matter what, not only cause have to but cause i want to.
I feel like the way shulk feels and the amount of stupidly complicated tech that you HAVE to learn to play him at a high level is why hes so underrepresented. I seriously considered making him a secondary but dial storage alone made me want to pull my hair out
Hii! I love your channel, its informative and interesting 🙂 I’ve been a Peach main since Melee but unfortunately im not one of those crazy comboers 😂 can u pls make a video why no one plays Peach/Daisy please? 😃
As someone who has mained shulk since Sm4sh I have to say: this is incredibly accurate. However, there is one thing I would have considered adding which is that shulk’s out of shield options are some of the worst in the game. Having terrible out of shield in a game where everyone is mashing attacks every .5 seconds means that Shulk really does have to play better than his opponent a lot of the time because even if they mess up with something like a high landed arial that would be unsafe on most character’s shields it might still be safe on Shulk’s shield. This is made worse by the fact his fastest and best out of shield option, his up b “airslash”, is incredibly punishing if whiffed as you will be put in freefall high in the air with almost no drift for landing mixups available to you. So basically, if somone gets close to you and they have better frame data (which is very likely since Shulk’s is very bad), Shulk has to go for high risk options to try to get them off. Lastly, I did wanna mention that shulk, despite being a sword character, is pretty mechanically intensive once you start to play him using everything he has. Controlling drift when in speed and jump is incredibly precise, breaking out of combos and counterattacking isn’t super hard, but if you want to get a second art switch so your counterattack is not in shield art - that requires knowing the exact timing that combos or multihits will end, and one of the biggest turnoffs is that Shulk has relatively few combos outside of a few easy BnBs that don’t require the use of advanced techniques such as dial storage and buffer deactivation which require lots of button presses at certain timings which is just another thing Shulk players have to consider during a match. Great video though!!
I mean, Air Slash is his only real Out of Shield option, but it's an excellent option (thanks to its range). He can effectively control large 'slices' of the stage just by standing still. Yes, it's very punishable if it whiffs, but it's too good (even at frame 10) to be "some of the worst in the game".
Could you imagine if his moves adjusted to Monado Arts too? Like Buster having lingering hit boxes to capitalize on his extra damage? Or Speed decreasing the start up frames of his moves? All of this, with their respective drawbacks.
As a shulk main hes just to unpredictable if you like that like myself its good but if your trynna take ti further it’s extremely hard you have to know your opponent yourself and captalize of of their weaknesses
Very good explanation. As a former Shulk main, I'd like to add just one point. To confirm that idea of "good on paper but inconsistent at high level" he has Dial Storage. Basically this lets Shulk pick an art really quickly by cancelling a move. It's not easy to perform but it makes him combo characters with one art at the beginning and another at the end. Ofc people think that's broken. And it is. But it's inconsistent and while it can help a lot it's virtually useless against rushdowns.
He's not even that complex outside of swapping character parameters. Maybe if he changed animations and overall frame data, but as it stands his complexity comes from just knowing when to use his arts due to cooldown rotation. Very mild in terms of min-maxing and resource management when compared to other games, when you think about it
Lol I just got this video in my recommendations days after picking up Shulk. Just finished Xenoblade DE and I wanted to see what he was about. So far, I'm having a lot of fun
Imo Shulks problem with the arts is the same problem hero has with acceleratle. His movement changes but his moveset frame data stays the same, so it sometimes feels like your playing a character with mismatched moves, like if you gave a character a combo starter move like falcos up tilt that confirms to back air to someone who cant do the confirm because they cant jump that high
A big thing that stops most people is how fast you need to switch the arts depending on the situation. You don't have time to think (well, maybe 1 second of thinking). Becuase of the mental speed required, most players of smash can't justify grinding him. Outside of that, it is arguably rather straight-forward to understand HOW to go about playing each monado art style. Although utilising them properly is also quite the challenge.
I miss sm4sh shulk SO much. Sure he wasn't the top tier he is in ultimate, but he was just so much easier to control and in my opinion, fun to play. He was my first main in that game and I was so sad when I made the realization that I just couldn't keep up with his general speed increase in ultimate. I miss him so :(
(correct me of any of these are changed) His counter was nurfed alot in ultimate, not killing anywhere near where it use too. His means pressuring shulk and walking into a counter is just an inconvenience Alot of his attacks have blind spots right next to him encouraging staying in his face. Heavyweight frame data, while feeling like a mid weight alot of the time. And his "sephiroth" mode is timed. If his only reasonable way to kill you is a timed stance. You can just wait it out Most of his combos require "dial storage" a near frame perfect bug/exploit that allows you to queue the arts change animation, making it enough frames shorter to change mid combo.
![[UNCUT] ฝันรักห้วงนิทรา | EP.3 (1/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zVXAFD1OLZg/mqdefault.jpg)
The big hinderance for Shulk’s popularity is really difficulty. I enjoy learning all these character specific techs but there aren’t many others who would put in that much time on a character especially if it isn’t their main.
sounds like I should pick up shulk, I've spent so much time playing Steve and learning him to the point where he's almost as good as my main. But I don't have Steve as a secondary or something.
I mained shulk in smash 4. with how they changed him and altered him , he is for sure stronger , but honestly less fun. not because he is better but because of all the mechanics changes of both the base game and himself as a character
@@renmojito6796 I would say they made him more fun for people who didn’t want to main him. Without these changes, he would definitely be suffering a worse fate.
@@firstwaddledee9182 Are you sure they made him more fun for non mains or just made him easier for them ? Because I can understand why you'd mix those notions up
Edit: I don't completely agree about the changes part. Some changes sure but not all. For example his bair had a hitbox where he would kick you with his Nike shoes. They removed that . The multiplied power of the monado while on one hand improves his output, the negatives get multiplied too. So the weight difference makes his mobility awkward at times. Not being able to run through shields anymore killed his speed pivot pressure. And probably more stuff I could think of if I didn't just wake up.
@@renmojito6796 the big change I was thinking of was the art wheel. That made the arts much less of a chore to use, which I thought would have been a big reason why players were turned off from him in high or low level.
Buster's reduced kill power is actually often a strength. With reduced knockback, the percent brackets your hits send opponents too far away shift up slightly, essentially allowing you to continue using combos that rack up high damage where base Shulk would knock them too far away.
Ye busters reduced knockback great for even kill confirms
Can Smash’s reduced damage ever come in handy too?
@@jomaq9233 if you want to kill terry before he gets GO
@@jomaq9233 it’s also good if you get countered because you like never die from it since counters strength is based off of damage not knock back
So in conclusion, Shulk has a steep learn curve with high risk, high reward mechanics. No wonder I never get upset when I lose to Shulk
From what I heard Cloud has a pretty steep learning curve too. But if I could learn him, I could learn Shulk too. I am a devout follower of the mantra “you don’t choose your main, your main chooses you”. There has to be that one character that just clicks with you, whether it’s in their playing style or even simply their aesthetic and backstory. To me that character was Cloud, and me maining him was enough to get me into FF7 even. I think the same logic applies to secondaries too. I’m not going to main him and use him all the time but he’s someone good to throw out when I feel like it and when I get better at him.
You haven’t been forward aired off ledge then
@@therealspeedwagon1451 Cloud is considered an easy character to use
@@therealspeedwagon1451 My ass. Cloud is the 2nd easiest char in the game.
"Shulk approaches situations much more dynamically"
Meanwhile, the clip is showing 2 speed shulks repeatedly just, nairing each other's shield over and over. Very dynamic.
*insert comment about furry*
*insert argument crumbling*
@@rycegabrielmajor9847 PvZ2 profile pic
I have no profile picture. My words don’t matter.
@@THGMR-ox7sd AAA
Because high level smash meta is boring and cookie cutter af
Shulk main. This was a great overview, and I particularly like that you mentioned his handling. He 'feels clunky' when you pick him up. One thing I would add, though, that contributes to this impression is his horrendous air acceleration. Every characters can, in the air, change their current trajectory by drifting forwards/backwards on the control stick. Shulk can too, but his ability to adjust his trajectory is minimal, and it's not helped with any of the Monado Arts. Basically, even his jumps feel commital, because he's basically on a linear trajectory from the moment he inputs the jump. For a character who cares so much about spacing, that's a major hinderance.
(There's also a few other things to note, but much smaller: Air Slash won't autograb the ledge unless you've timed it for a fairly precise sweetspot. And his Vision (counter) is notoriously unreliable. There's a decent amount of 'jank' Shulk mains have to fight against when they play the character.)
Ryu and Ken cannot do this either but that is just due to their classic fighting game character design
Can you explain to me why it is that hes so hard tho? Yeah he has terrible movement bit it seems to me the only thing hard to master about him is his Dial Storage.
@@vick7868 Shulk is constantly managing resources. A number of the Monado Arts change his movement speed/fall speed, which changes the timing for his aerial attacks and his recovery.
He's not technically demanding in the way that combo characters like Pikachu and Peach are demanding. But nearly all his moves are high-commitment, so you can never really be 'lazy' in neutral. It's a bit mentally draining, where those attacks and even his jumps feel commital. (This is also why virtually every Shulk develops an overuse of Nair and Fair. Those are preciously spammable.)
And the input for the Monado Arts, while simple, requires excellent reflexes. (There's a number of multihits and kill confirms that Shield Art can escape, but most of those require amazing reaction speed.) All of the Monado Arts have weaknesses, so if a situation goes south, you need to be ready to deactivate the art, or swap arts, at a moment's notice, or Shulk can get beaten pretty badly.
Then there's all the surprisingly inactive hitboxes, the multihits that don't connect, a notoriously unreliable Counter: all of that is jank he shouldn't have to deal with, but does.
I still love the character. He's tons of fun, and it's a gameplay style I enjoy immensely. But he certainly doesn't feel good to pick up right away. Play Shulk for an hour on Elite Smash, and I think you'll notice some of those issues.
Plus his counter being more mediocre on air. Its mor better on ground. The counter doesn’t really cover much, and misses because of how janky its placement is.
@@vick7868 Aside from the ones mentioned by the previous commenter...
You have to live with the fact that all his attacks are only virtually plus on block when properly spaced and executed, otherwise he is always punishable due to his fastest move's range being terrible (jab and grab's range has been nerfed to the point of being risky or near useless to use as a counter) while Air Slash, despite being 10f and a decent oos, is very commital.
DS, while a hard tech to utilize in a proper match, is just one of the many techs known with Shulk. The basic ones like MALLC and BD, kill confirms like the just frame Butterfly Step and Monado Cyclone, and all the ridiculous tech acronyms that Shulk mains are notoriously known for ever since Smash 4. With DS and the new Ultimate engine, some have died out of favor due to Shulk not being unusable anymore, while the others that thrived either became easier to execute or have been replaced by an offshoot of DS. You could argue that many of these aren't essential to Shulk's gameplay so they do not count, but that statement also applies to DS.
Bro, true freaking story here, I turned on the game one time and went to character select just to see that he's there. LOL. I was thinking of the whole "Everyone is here!" tagline and was like, "What about Shulk?". Yeah, he was there, and I don't remember ever playing against one. I don't even remember _unlocking_ _him_ .
He’s automatically in your roster in Ultimate, no one picked him because why would you pick generic anime dude when you could play as Mario or Link?
@@andersolson44
Why play generic anime sword boy?
What about Marth mains? Lucina mains? Hero mains? Cloud or Sephiroth mains? We legit just forgot that Shulk's not the only anime sword boy?
@@taidakun_ig i mean cloud and sephiroth are way more iconic than the others characters that you listed
@@mistywww3199
That doesn't matter. They're anime swordsmen. Doesn't mean the others aren't extremely popular in the country of their games' origin. You see it as generic because they're more niche than the worldwide acclaimed Final Fantasy that I'm sure were also boosted due to Kingdom Hearts' popularity.
Point is that they're also anime swordsmen.
@@taidakun_ig Honestly I hate how FF fans always say "They're more iconic than the other swordfighters" or in Sephiroths case, "He's not AN anime swordfighter, he's THE anime swordfighter" which is extremely stupid. Just because more people know them doesn't make them any different. They're still characters who use swords.
This is 100% true. Picked up shulk early due to how “easy” he was, but when I got to higher levels I realized that he was insanely hard and I spend a long time trying to grind him. Now, I still main him after years, and still can barely remember the order of the monado arts
I learned to jump with L to make it easier to figure out tbh. Iirc it's something like speed, jump, shield, buster, smash.
smash, buster, shield, speed, jump :D
What exactly is that hard about him? You gotta remember where the Arts are on the wheel and Dial Storage, the latter being the one actually hard thing he has. Learn that and you get frame 1 invincibility and all the safety in the world. I dont get it. He isnt BABY baby but he isn't top 5 hardest imo.
@@vick7868 Shulk isnt necessarily hard but still a Top 5-10 Hardest Characters Contestor
I deffinitly agree Kazuya, Peach, Ice Climbers being harder but who then?
The other Characters don't have to deal with a Mechanic that can benefit the Opponent more than it could benefit you and neither need to learn to use what makes Shulk good correctly.
You also actually have to space, while most of his moves relatively save on shield anyway, he can still get rushdowned and has a bad disadvantage due where his Startup is on his moves.
Yes, Shield Art but even that can be abused and is more of a Lifesaver against Multihits.
And you mentioned Dial Storage, constantly using and optimizing that makes him deffinitly Top 5
In theory it isnt hard to do but to actually use it usefully for example with Kill Confirms is a Different Bread.
Again while Shulk isnt that hard, which other Characters that are not seen as Top 5 need to Learn more?
I could pick up any other Character that doesnt have his own Mechanics and learn them way faster and way quicker.
Shulks like getting a Shoto as Random if you didnt learn them, you are not performing well because you havent optimized how to actually use that Specific Character.
@@imnotgonnasugarcoatit as someone who knows how to play the FGCs, they are all kinda easy when you learn how to do a quarter circle, the exception being Kazuya.
Outside of Shulk I'd pin Pac-Man, Mega Man, Icies, Lucas (DJCZ movement and combos), Sheik, Steve, Paisy and potentially Robin (due to tome and sword stuff) as being harder to optimize. Shulk I can definitely see being top 10 tho.
Shulk is like the strongest character in the game if you've perfectly mastered him and have irl monados so you can predict future
Same case as sheik, on paper they are broken, but in reality they're too difficult to play and master
But once you master them, they become utter monsters.
@@gerragotheallidile True, but when there's characters as good as them but with way less work to put in to be good with (like palutena, lucina or pikachu) there's no real reason to play them unless you like the characters
Same as Kazuya. His potential is infinite but everybody sucks with him lol
If this game keeps being played like melee a shulk main will arise. I also think someone will truly make ice climbers broken someday too.
Nah sheiks flaws are way to large to be in that level
Honestly I like Shulk, he’s a pretty underrated Swordfighter
thank you! and the monado is fire!!!
@@user-fm2eo4ui4i hell yeah! Ngl I think I might even like using him more than Pyra and Mythra
same! he is my main and the aegis is my secondary@@ShadowDante7
@@user-fm2eo4ui4i awesome! Great choices
Well, as a Xenoblade fan, Shulk is automatically my main.
But Pyra and Mythra are too
Great vid, as a Shulk Main I can say most of your points are accurate. He’s not an instant easy-mode pick like Joker or Aegis, you actually have to learn more than just BNB combos to fully grasp the Monado’s Power. I love playing him, not just cause I’m a Xenoblade fan but it’s satisfying to get a Buster string into Smash read.
His mobility arts are also satisfying, it’s always tempting to go for a Nair > Fair train offstage with Speed, or edgeguard with Jump. And of course the best part is denying zero to deaths with the Shield Art cheese.
All in all, Shulk is definitely one of the best characters but HAS to be practiced. He’s my favorite character though and I’m so happy that he’s good in Ultimate.
I think saying joker is an instant easy mode for wins takes away from his playerbase. Joker also has a lot of skillful tech as well.
Gun has a ton of potential, he has drag down combos in order to optimize his punish game. There is also things that only a few jokers at top lvl can do like footstool down gun.
nair nair nair nair fair. look at me i’m difficult
Nah man, as soon as Arsene pops out (and believe me, it happens WAY too frequently) the matchup becomes so much easier for Joker, when it was already easy in the first place. The whole point of having a comeback mechanic is if you’re losing, it makes up for it. But whenever you’re able to farm the comeback mechanic at any time throughout a stock, then that directly flies in the face of what a comeback mechanic should be. Joker is 100% baby mode.
This mf just put Joker and Aegis on the same difficulty? joker EASY MODE? XD.
Yikes
One aspect I think is important with Shulk is that moment to moment decision making from players becomes telegraphed due to the Monado Arts. Whenever an art switch comes up, your opponent knows exactly what strategy you are going for, and can adapt to counter it much more directly than other characters. Watch a recent Shuton vs Kome set, and you can see Shuton switch styles whenever Kome changes arts.
Thats true. You can also see this with a charecter like Pyra and Mythra, where when you are playing one there is a clear game plan, (Mythra for raking up damage, Pyra for the kill.) This can be said for a lot of comeback mechanic characters as well, although that doesn't seem to stop Arsene from killing you at 30.
It’s honestly funny about how many people are apprehensive about playing Shulk, he’s actually pretty easy to pick up, it’s really just mastering him that’s difficult, but what you can do with him as someone learning him is really fun
Can't wait to see my boys the koopalings being in one of these
It was always strange to me that despite Shulk’s massive potential (and cheese-Thanks, Monado Arts changing while in hitstun), Shulk has only a few select pros that play him and do well with him at all. Now that you explained it, I totally feel the same whenever I play Shulk out of random pick in arenas. Those highs are so amazing when they land, but it’s incredibly frustrating when the opponent doesn’t die at around 150% and Smash art is on cooldown. Or when I need to rack up damage, yet I get too greedy with Buster and take 100% for it or Speed Art causes me to zoom past the enemy I was trying to combo. I still think Shulk is fun to play, but he’s a little too unwieldy for my tastes.
Oh btw, I’m curious if you’re gonna eventually make a “Why Only MKLeo Plays Byleth” video, or just the standard “Why No One Plays Byleth” episode.
Shulk can actually be so cheesy sometimes, whenever I use him against someone like bayonetta I can literally just switch to shield mid combo and the combo will just stop comboing
Damn i guess i don't exist as a byleth main
@@KhryausOHowl I know right? But I assume they meant well known smash pros
@@fluffyeevee383 yea fair, tbh i still need to get good with byleth lmao
Haha, those two videos can be summed up as "Enjoy the game, fools."
I would love to see one on Rosalina, a really interesting fall from grace since Smash 4
I would love to see a “why no one plays Pokémon trainer” so many good players have dropped them and it’s super disappointing since they are theoretically a top 5 character.
I imagine it’s for similar reasons to the one mentioned here. Switching between two character who balance out each others weaknesses is fine, but when you have three distinct fighters with much less defined weaknesses all in one that can be pretty overwhelming to handle as a player because it now means you have to devote a substantial amount of time to three characters instead of one or even two.
In short charizard and squirtle is worse than ivysaur
@@bigchungus7870 not after the nerfs.
@Big chungus ivysaur is the worst of the 3
Really? Online I come across several every time I play
I actually changed mains to Shulk over a year ago. I still don’t feel like I’ve scratched the surface of his Monados. Dial storage isn’t the easiest thing in the world and he lacks a good mash option for online. But I’m staying with it Bc I just really like this character
One could say... You're really feeling it?
@@ragvald8835 indeed
As a Xenoblade fan, you calling Shulk's Monado Arts simply "Monados" mentally and physically hurts me.
@@dantelawrence4676 litle does the OP kno, Shulk technically he as more than one monado. 👀 monado 3 at endgame and featured in xeno 3’s cosmetics option.
Thanks for clarifying this isn’t a definitive essay on why literally nobody plays the character. There’s several great Shulk players here in Santa Cruz, Sandfall and Wajie just to name a few (Wajie recently picked up Shulk, previously played Ridley and Wolf). The character is definitely rare, but not unseen, and one of my personal favorites.
I think the biggest problem with Shulk is that his performance floor is low. If his Monado are not used he's a fairly slow swordie. His long range is great but his moves are really sluggish. Worse, if you're using the wrong Monado at the time, you're even disadvantaged for the scenario you are in. Jump or Shield art when trying to do damage and you're not racking up much. Smash art when you got thrown off the stage and your recovery is worse now. This means if your Monado management slips up at all, you're suddenly a very mediocre character.
The difference compared to the Aegis, is that Mythra's base properties are great. Her kill power isn't even that bad with her extremely fast smashes and lightning buster still able to close out stocks at decent percents. So if you can't maximize Pyra due to whatever is going on, just staying in Mythra gives you an astounding baseline. Similarly Joker is a great character even without Arsen and even if you fail to ever maximize Arsen you still have a reliably fast character with absurd tools like Gun. You can easily close out games with Mythra or base Joker, and it's part of why they are top tier.
When Pyra and Mythra or Joker are executing perfectly, they are godlike. When they are executing poorly they are still great. Shulk is godlike when executing perfectly but kind of mediocre when executing poorly, which makes him much less consistent. Consistency and ease of execution really are huge factors in top level play where you need to do well match after match, stock after stock, all the way to the end.
Very good breakdown, thanks for the analysis.
you sound like you know a lot. tell me, can i use isabelle to climb ranks easily?
@@ToastyYokai You mean for online quickplay? Isabelle is generally considered not that good. Her main tools are her fair and bair slingshot, then her mine and her fishingrod. An attentive opponent won't be hit by the mine reliably and the fishing rod is good only if you can keep from being rushed down. Her recovery is also risky as a lot of people can pop her balloons. Most people consider her on the lower end of characters unfortunately. The game is balanced enough that if you are willing to put in the time and effort to learn Isabelle and her tricks you can still do well, but as far as "easily", she is going to be harder more than easier to do well with.
@@TheEmperorGulcasa thanks, ill give her a go.
@@ToastyYokai Good luck then! Her fishing rod is unique, and I think it gets a lot better with terrain you can hide on top of. Of course a lot of complex terrain stages are banned in tournament level play.
I played shulk for months after playing Xenoblade DE
Until very recently when I started playing Mewtwo over Shulk again
I was terrible at Shulk at first finally got good with him and then took a break from the game and was terrible with Shulk again
My Dad plays a lot of Smash and he only played Shulk for 1,5 years, but he NEVER used Monado arts and still was able to win in Elite Smash.
On a Mid level you actually can do very good with Basic Shulk, he ist still a solid Charakter
Personally I love how shulk’s art cooldowns mimic how shulks arts are used in his home game. You gotta be careful not to waste your arts in case something bad happens and you ain’t got the art to deal with it, it’s amazing how the way shulk plays in xenoblade was so well translated to smash. Yes I’m a shulk main how could you tell.
I don't play this game competitively, nor online without friends much either, but Shulk is probably one of the characters I've put the most time into; mostly because I'm a massive Xenoblade fan (I've been playing him since the midnight release of Smash 3DS lol) Anyway, before I get too far off my actual point, it's interesting to see videos like this; it's nice to learn more about the perception and specifics of a fighter I like a lot - both as a character and playstyle in Smash
I LOVE THIS SERIES.
keep the good work man im loving your content.
Im looking foward to see more characters in this "why no one plays" videos.
I'm a Shulk main I've played him for about 5 years (since I was about 10 I wanna say) He's a really cool character imo. I'm a xenoblade fan lol only reason I play him, good game, I recommend it!
Really cool and well done series. I like it!
What I like about shulk is that he can overcome any matchup thanks to monado arts
But he still has many weaknesses Imo and each monado art can backfire making him inconsistent
I really like Shulk b/c he doesn’t really have a skill limit; you can always get better with him.
Great video! Didn't expect such a decent analysis, but I loved the points you made and everything was clear. With Shulk I really do think its about consistency. Shulk is a very whacky character and with that, basically disregards any form of consistency at a high level. I don't think Shulk is anywhere near the most difficult character to play from a technical standpoint, but he's mostly a very mentally challenging character. You have to always make the right decision or you'll lose your stock. Can't wait to upload my reaction to this!
I love these vids man👍 keep ‘em coming it’s good shiz
I just finished watching the other two no one plays on this channel WHILE PLAYING SHULK and this popped up. Very cool
Love this series! And when you’re done you should do “why everyone plays _____” 😁Also, your voice and thought process sound like you are a mixture of Esam and Fatality if they had a baby. Keep up the great work!
Just discovered your channel can't wait for more smash content. Would like to see a character guide with your main even if there's alot of guides out already you can always learn something new from someone
This is a channel that I’ll expect to see a huge jump in subscribers from. Can’t wait to see why no one plays meta knight because i love the character in ultimate and wanna see if the same reasons show up in the video
Meta Knight had a huge fall from grace in Ultimate. He went from broken, to slightly overtuned, to garbage in the span of just three games. It's insane.
You summed it perfectly, especially with how much investment you have to put into him. Even someone like Marth or Sephiroth doesn't require that much investment
Really enjoying this series! Maybe something you could add in are thoughts our quotes from top reps of the Characters? Like not a full fledged interview but just a couple sentences on why they think they have a lower player base. Could be interesting to get their insight.
I wanted to do that for a while but I don't have enough clout to get their attention yet haha
@@VarsIII F
This was awesome. As a main of this character, I would love to see a video on Ryu in smash ultimate. He’s gotten some notoriety as of late, but he’s still fairly rare.
very cool seeing footage from my local in here, Darkshad the goat
i always loved to play shulk, the monado boosts are so fun and worth to master!
Gotta say, I love seeing WKOPs for Ultimate in addition to you Genshin ones. Looking forward to this series
as an avid watcher of your league videos, i was pleasantly surprised to find this.
"If he's a heavy weight like bowser, who is hard to kill, switch to smash art and beat his ass!" That caught me off guard and had me laughing my ass off. That explanation was perfect lol
I've always compared Shulk playing as a character who essentially 6 echo fighters glued together so you have to basically learn 6 different sets of matchups which is a ridiculous amount of things to learn
I love playing shulk, used him to win a local local team tournament with a buddy of mine who was using ness, man was it wild
one thing i feel went unmentioned was his smash attacks having two main hitboxes. its not much but ive learned it can do some real damage if managed well
this sht is high quality bro, AWESOME VID KEEP IT UP
All the Tierlist: He has potential.
Nice Video ^^
Wow, thanks for this video. Now that I have more of an understanding, I kinda want to pick him up as my main out of spite. The challenge of mastering such a character excites me.
That's the goal behind WNOP :P to give exposure to them lol
Shulk is just has a lot to micromanage as well. Something you didn’t mention is dial storage which lets him store the first 10 frame of this monado wheel animation and for quicker selection but you can reduce your end lag to just 4 frames doing dial storage which helps tremendously. There’s a lot going on with Shulk XD
Been playing shulk ever since the game's launch and I mostly agree with your points, though I'd like to bring some more precision on things you missed or didn't develop:
First, I know you did cover how shulk can break combos but that's precisely why exploiting his weaknesses is much easier said than done. For instance Buster or Jump shulk can dish out a lot of damage but you can't really take advantage of the arts' drawbacks since he can just switch to shield or speed in a single frame. The same applies to smash if someone tries to kill him with a multi hit move (which are completely invalidated in order to kill him), and Shulk doesn't have to use that art anyways if he's at kill percent himself (trust me he still kills very early without it)
As a followup to that, MALLC is a tech that's still usable but it's not used that much, mostly due to the existence of dial flash (exploiting the fact that the dial comes out on frame 1) to do pretty much the same but faster and giving the option to activate whatever art is needed or none at all, as opposed to MALLC forcing you to use the art you chose before landing. It's much less predictable in regards to the landing's timing and gives Shulk some invulnerability upon landing (actually so does MALLC but you didn't cover it, just adding some precision) since monado arts give Shulk as many Iframes as a roll would (commonly refered to as a monadodge)
The last thing I can think of is that some of Shulk's kill confirms have him switching arts, which makes him able to kill very early with no danger of getting cheesed. And they're not that hard to learn, besides most of them requiring some form of dial storage (what makes neutral B come out on frame 1). Examples of those include Monado Cyclone (speed uair -> smash uair, kills at around 50 depending on character), Monado Purge (buster Nair -> smash upB, kill at 50/60 as well), or the infamous buster dthrow -> neutral upB that kills at 80 or so.
Besides that as I said your points are pretty valid, I just think it would have been nice to mention those since they give some perspective on Shulk's "weaknesses".
The biggest reason why I play Shulk is that he's very effective as a character without using combos, which is a system I absolutely despise learning in Smash and Smash alone. The extent of his combo play involves a very low input count (the important ones that do not involve TAS-like skills tend to max out at 4 inputs excluding jumping and dashing) but requires high execution skills.
Honestly... he's still one of my go-to characters. I mained him in Smash 4. I actually prefer to fight in his base. Considering that his Art don't last long... a good opponent knows to stay back and you miss your opportunity to strike. But, if you master the basics you'll rarely need the Arts.
Well, even if they stay away, the opponent has given up stage control, which is itself a minor victory.
Shulk is mid tier without monado arts they’re definately needed. Sure against a worse opponent you can use base Shulk but it’s undeniable that monado arts are what take him from mid tier to top tier.
For me, the Arts are for Capitalizing & Emergency Options. They're not to be abused just cause you can. If you learn base Shulk to the MAX you can make Smash & Buster all you need.
Learning to maneuver Jump & Speed becomes less necessary. You can still learn them if going from Base Movements to Arts Movements & back to Base doesn't throw you off.
I liked your point about how Shulk can't autocancel his shop aerials. Little things like that about how a character handles, regardless of their tier placement or other weaknesses, can have a big influence on the player's impression of the character and not a lot of people talk about it. Probably a lot of people try Shulk, play him like they would any other swordie, don't understand why he feels so clunky, and give up on him.
I've been playing Shulk since the beginning of Ultimate and I kid you not, many people get very surprised when I tell them I main him because it's so rare to find on these days. I'm glad that there are many people who respect those that play him because I always felt like we don't get enough representation. If they ever make another Smash game, I do hope they make it so that Shulk gets more representation
Respect huh? Lucky you. My friend group (casual) bans me from playing him because I always win with him. Like killing at 60% with smash art, or easy edgeguards with jump art, or surviving to like 180% with shield, they think he's broken and gang up on me if i pick him lol. It sucks for me cuz he is literally the funnest character in the game, most characters are so straightforward and boring compared to Shulk!
@@Layazeroda I do have the occasional salty player that complains that me playing Shulk is "broken" but they never realise how time consuming it is to learn his playstyle. In fact, one of the people that I played against who thought Shulk was broken tried to use him against me. He said that Speed Monado was useless. That really hurt me.
This is why, sometimes i feel like monando arts on other characters would be a better showcasing of its true power
Have you seen kirby with monando? Or hell even steve's blocks? Insane.
I like shulk a lot in smash 4 when I used to play a lot, seeing this makes me appreciate those who are actually good with him
Fantastic and informative video! Shulk is definitely the strongest character that goes under the radar, because no one wants to put in the time to use him.
Kome exists for a reason
I really like Shulk, I consider him and Corrin the most underrated swordfighters.
I really corrin. Its very satisfying to punish with this munchy claw attack. The one that spits water then somehow ppl always get hit with the piranha attack. Same with the downwards spike slash into a forward smash attack, ppl get offguard when i miss the 1st part then punish with a 2nd.
You remind me of Davy gunface, and I couldn’t be happier!
I find shulk very interesting but i remember finding very awkward that he has to uso many of his engages from the back, reversing nair or attacking with bair. so his common attacks already require advanced skills.
Also the short duration of the arts makes the window of opportunity for a newbie very short. so in each fight you practice like 20-30s of the main arts. so if you wanna get good with speed it has to be from many many games. On top of that if you wanna get good with Art X against opponent Y at Z% its millions of games to get the muscle memory and intuition.
So i saw myself forced to play kinda gimmicky at some points, "well in this situation its a shield or a smash hail mary"
I love Shulk...I use to main him, depending which art you using. You gonna need a big brain to learn his counter risk or optional counterclaim.
Sometimes Jump Art might save him from getting launch to the blast-zone. Frame data and mobility are you're most attractive attributes advantage to help him to gain his upper-hand.
But you must be careful, the Arts won't last for like 5.20 seconds. You will get more circumstance experience with your life is in risk.
Shield Art can aid Shulk to maintain his life if he's at kill percentage so it will wears off very quickly. So you need to save it as soon as possible too not use it all.
Smash Art has to risky option for Shulk for getting early ko's and getting launch very easy don't use it when times if you're at higher percentage.
I do, but I'm mainly a Robin(f) main so there is that. When I was playing smash4 was a though choice I never rly got able to decide one of them, but with SmashU I finally decided to stick with Robin and have Shulk as a 3rd Pocket Character.
Why I don’t play Shulk?
Everyone: I’m really *fucking bad at this character*
A double-edged sword, huh? How fitting.
Great video. Would love to see a video on Pac-Man, feel like nobody plays him even though he's super good
As a Xeno fan from 2013 I was so happy having Shulk in smash but he feels weird, not totally accurate and his final smash could've been something more badass (I always thought that) Now in Ultimate he's nerfed asf and his face is kinda strange. I love Shulk as a character but I can't use him in smash, It ain't fun, the same thing applies to Pyra/Mythra.
What would you rather his Final Smash be? I mean, from a mechanical perspective, Chain Attack is basically the perfect sort of Super Move for him to use in this scenario. I guess there could be something more narratively focused? Like controlling the Bionis and having it swing that giant sword of light as seen in the game's intro cutscene. Sure, technically Shulk never actually does that, but he certainly could by the end. Though I guess that'd be a pretty big spoiler for anyone not familiar with the game (not that this stopped Fiora from happening in Ultimate, of course).
Or maybe it could fundamentally stay as Chain Attack, but its functionality would change to be more like a Brawl Final Smash? Where you're actually doing something to select moves for Rikki and Dunban mid-battle rather than just summoning a cutscene on top of the opponent.
Or maybe its just the animation in specific? Like if we got to see a Break/Topple/Daze happen in the cutscene, maybe with Shulk using Monado Cyclone as the Topple move for a finisher more grandiose than a simple sword slash? Well, I guess if that particular move was the finisher then the Daze part wouldn't happen, but still, it'd look cool.
In the end it really just depends on what, exactly, you're disappointed about with the Final Smash. I feel like what we got was fitting, thematically/mechanically appropriate, and generally in line with other Final Smashes in the game, but, y'know, its not like it'd be impossible to improve in one way or another.
I haven't found Pyra and Mythra feel weird in smash. They really refined the swap to make it smooth to use at any time and it's really the best a swap/stance character has ever been. No dealing with the longer swap time or cycling of Pokemon Trainer or the totally different movesets. No dealing with the really clunky Monando durations and cycing. Pyra could do with being a bit fundamentally stronger and Mythra maybe a tad weaker, but the character is very refined.
@@TheEmperorGulcasa Bit late, but the thing that makes them seem a bit off to me is that in XC2, Pyra is the weak character and Mythra is the strong one
@@bfpncsr3608 The funny thing is that they work about the same as blades in XC2. Of course lore wise Pyra is mostly just a slightly above average blade and Mythra is god tier in all aspects. But ingame Pyra is clunky and mediocre except she has very high crit damage, and can be used for really strong single blows of damage (or rather, to set up powerful DOT from Volcano or something). Mythra, meanwhile, can absolutely spam out her arts (and thus her specials) thanks to her crit refresh, but her individual arts hits are pretty weak (though her specials are strong and also spammable). So Mythra is the one who spams arts and builds guage and does most of the heavy lifting, then you swap to Pyra for one nuclear blade combo. Just like how you rack up damage and play neutral with Mythra, then kill with one good hit from Pyra.
PLEASE NOT THE MOST TRAGIC DEATH SCENE IN THE GAME AT THE START OF THE VIDEO
one of the biggest things i continusly dealt with is the fact his moves are so laggy in a online place where theres even more delay for things to come out you basicly got to read the future where your opponent is more then what you do in xenoblade 1
Do one on ice climbers. I feel like it would be similar to this as well. They is the theoretical best character as if mastered perfectly it would be like being in a 2 player combo all the time. Get grabbed? Dead, no matter the percent. Their just like really hard though.
I mained Shulk in Smash 4 as well as used that to get into Xenoblade as a series. While he was considered Bad (with potential) in that game, the less extreme elements of the Monado Arts and probably slower game engine made it easier to juggle the different modes he could be in for me. Improving the Art effects (while worsening the drawbacks) did a lot for making him better in Ultimate, but also so much more frustrating for me to play. Let alone everything regarding the Dial; it's opened up so much for Shulk's options but my muscle memory is related to a specific amount of B button mashing and I just never could adjust over the years.
Pyra and Mythra were the nail in the coffin. Significantly easier to autopilot, still has some of the tactical switching fundamentals Shulk had in the Monado Arts, and I wanted a XC2 character in from Ultimate's release because of Shulk getting me into the franchise. It was sad to move on but seeing Kome succeed with him since Smash 4 is heartwarming at least.
Im really feeling this vid
To make shulk work: I feel like vision should have some sort of gimmick. Maybe when he is high percentage, his vision becomes more powerful, referring to the fact that it normally only activates when you are in danger. Maybe if it was something like bats within. Another change I would love would be to change backslash, a meme move, useless, instead, make it stream edge, or make it rewarding, and not so laggy. Another thing I would love would be for battle soul to be in his move set, it would activate and give you back an art on cooldown and in exchange you gain percentage, it would be crazy.
Hey man, you may recognize me from a comment in a "lol" vid. Fantastic videos with consistent interesting analysis while maintaining it fun!!
Shulk sounds like the noise you make when you throw up.
just came here from your genshin channel, just so happen i also wanna get better at smash, epic video.
This video is so true, but I just got lost in your voice bro… I could fall asleep to this, your voice is so soothing…
I mained Shulk ever since smash 4. Still play him to this day!
This made me want to switch to Shulk. This video is kinda about how he's hard to learn, but because of it, I understand him now in a way I didn't before, and I think he's unironically perfect for me.
This is a casual take but I like to play Shulk because his cold, doll-like eyes on the victory screen freak my wife out.
2:39 Sora Hard Counter Art
2:56 Sonic, Captain Falcon, Fox and Falco hard counter art.
You explined this perfectly. I had the exact same thoughts. Which is bit sad. Xenoblade 1 is my favorite game on the switch. I love using Shulk's final smash and see 7, Dunban and Riki battle with him, yet he is not fun to play with.
I feel like inkling is a good contendor for this series I rarely see her at all online, offline, and, while I don't really watch tournements super often, I rarely see her at all. She's a top tier character with good combos and doesn't really have trouble killing.
I can see a Duck Hunt and Corrin edition of this series.
The fact I'm a PC player who don't buy consoles anymore, makes me feel like an alien every time I see videos about console only games
i’m a shulk main through and through the first game is extremely special to me personal even so i have to stick with him no matter what, not only cause have to but cause i want to.
I feel like the way shulk feels and the amount of stupidly complicated tech that you HAVE to learn to play him at a high level is why hes so underrepresented. I seriously considered making him a secondary but dial storage alone made me want to pull my hair out
Dial storage is extremely tertiary
Hii! I love your channel, its informative and interesting 🙂 I’ve been a Peach main since Melee but unfortunately im not one of those crazy comboers 😂 can u pls make a video why no one plays Peach/Daisy please? 😃
As someone who has mained shulk since Sm4sh I have to say: this is incredibly accurate. However, there is one thing I would have considered adding which is that shulk’s out of shield options are some of the worst in the game. Having terrible out of shield in a game where everyone is mashing attacks every .5 seconds means that Shulk really does have to play better than his opponent a lot of the time because even if they mess up with something like a high landed arial that would be unsafe on most character’s shields it might still be safe on Shulk’s shield. This is made worse by the fact his fastest and best out of shield option, his up b “airslash”, is incredibly punishing if whiffed as you will be put in freefall high in the air with almost no drift for landing mixups available to you. So basically, if somone gets close to you and they have better frame data (which is very likely since Shulk’s is very bad), Shulk has to go for high risk options to try to get them off. Lastly, I did wanna mention that shulk, despite being a sword character, is pretty mechanically intensive once you start to play him using everything he has. Controlling drift when in speed and jump is incredibly precise, breaking out of combos and counterattacking isn’t super hard, but if you want to get a second art switch so your counterattack is not in shield art - that requires knowing the exact timing that combos or multihits will end, and one of the biggest turnoffs is that Shulk has relatively few combos outside of a few easy BnBs that don’t require the use of advanced techniques such as dial storage and buffer deactivation which require lots of button presses at certain timings which is just another thing Shulk players have to consider during a match. Great video though!!
I mean, Air Slash is his only real Out of Shield option, but it's an excellent option (thanks to its range). He can effectively control large 'slices' of the stage just by standing still. Yes, it's very punishable if it whiffs, but it's too good (even at frame 10) to be "some of the worst in the game".
@@jonathanlgill at frame 10 a lot of characters can just avoid it
@@jojo6783f It gets a lot more utility than you might expect. It's horizontal reach is deceptively large.
@@jojo6783f lol no. It has ridiculous range. It can easily punish retreating aerials even on characters with high airspeed such as wario and wolf.
@@matthewbitter532 until they just shield because there move is like -8 and then they get the easiest punish on you
Could you imagine if his moves adjusted to Monado Arts too? Like Buster having lingering hit boxes to capitalize on his extra damage? Or Speed decreasing the start up frames of his moves? All of this, with their respective drawbacks.
Cool concept, but that would only exacerbate his problem of being too difficult to play lol
agree. been trying to secondary shulk for a year and I still feel like it hasn’t clicked. Monado arts just add so many layers so every situation.
As a shulk main hes just to unpredictable if you like that like myself its good but if your trynna take ti further it’s extremely hard you have to know your opponent yourself and captalize of of their weaknesses
Can't wait for the DHD video where it boils down to "what if snake was worse but faster"
Very good explanation. As a former Shulk main, I'd like to add just one point. To confirm that idea of "good on paper but inconsistent at high level" he has Dial Storage.
Basically this lets Shulk pick an art really quickly by cancelling a move. It's not easy to perform but it makes him combo characters with one art at the beginning and another at the end.
Ofc people think that's broken. And it is. But it's inconsistent and while it can help a lot it's virtually useless against rushdowns.
He's not even that complex outside of swapping character parameters. Maybe if he changed animations and overall frame data, but as it stands his complexity comes from just knowing when to use his arts due to cooldown rotation. Very mild in terms of min-maxing and resource management when compared to other games, when you think about it
Lol I just got this video in my recommendations days after picking up Shulk. Just finished Xenoblade DE and I wanted to see what he was about. So far, I'm having a lot of fun
“Fancy meeting you here MONADO BOY!” “BACK SLASH” insert metal face dying sound here
Imo Shulks problem with the arts is the same problem hero has with acceleratle. His movement changes but his moveset frame data stays the same, so it sometimes feels like your playing a character with mismatched moves, like if you gave a character a combo starter move like falcos up tilt that confirms to back air to someone who cant do the confirm because they cant jump that high
A big thing that stops most people is how fast you need to switch the arts depending on the situation. You don't have time to think (well, maybe 1 second of thinking). Becuase of the mental speed required, most players of smash can't justify grinding him. Outside of that, it is arguably rather straight-forward to understand HOW to go about playing each monado art style. Although utilising them properly is also quite the challenge.
I miss sm4sh shulk SO much. Sure he wasn't the top tier he is in ultimate, but he was just so much easier to control and in my opinion, fun to play. He was my first main in that game and I was so sad when I made the realization that I just couldn't keep up with his general speed increase in ultimate. I miss him so :(
(correct me of any of these are changed)
His counter was nurfed alot in ultimate, not killing anywhere near where it use too. His means pressuring shulk and walking into a counter is just an inconvenience
Alot of his attacks have blind spots right next to him encouraging staying in his face.
Heavyweight frame data, while feeling like a mid weight alot of the time. And his "sephiroth" mode is timed.
If his only reasonable way to kill you is a timed stance. You can just wait it out
Most of his combos require "dial storage" a near frame perfect bug/exploit that allows you to queue the arts change animation, making it enough frames shorter to change mid combo.