History of WWI Primer 051: Hungarian Frommer Stop Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
Vom Ursprung der Selbstladepistole: Repetier- und Selbstladepistolen in Österreich-Ungarn 1884 bis 1918. Österreichische Pistolen - Band 1
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Original music provided by Melissa Hyman of The Moon and You
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Historical music from this episode:
Beállok rózsám katonának
Safe range space thanks to Triana Protection
In collaboration with The Great War
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Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Animation Music from Vector Smash
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Visit us at candrsenal.com
To all those laughing at Mae's improvable ventriloquist skills: She's been animating a giant bearded mannequin for a few episodes now, and none of you saw anything !
Giant Bearded Dummy not mannequin
Frommer's Wife: Frommer, you need to go to bed
Frommer: NO I NEED TO NAME THIS PISTOL
Frommer's Wife: Frommer...Stop
I'll see myself out now because of this terrible joke
Made me chuckle, lol.
That was better than Amy Schumer or Sarah Silverman's recent stuff. And it's better than half the jokes the dudes on SportsCenter try to tell.
I love this.
TheEtonianGamer No no, excellent job, carry on.
ssttaaaahhhhpppp
"Personally if I were Colt, I'd tell Frommer to stop"... Please Othias, you don't need to do this.
It was beautiful.
He doesn’t need to, and that’s why it’s so great when he does
Need that drum "Badum, tiss"
Mae probably split his wig for that
I thought it was a random pun, 'if I were Cold, I'd want Summer to stop'.
Stop
Frommer time
Can't shoot this?
MC Frommer.
The most underrated part of C&Rsenal, Othias' comedic timing.
"Well, it really don't work now."
100% serious man
Personally I think, “ There was time between wars, for awhile there.” Was also a great line. 😹
10:20 When you're told your gun is too complicated and one of the other guns in the contest is the Roth-Krnka, you _know_ you've overcooked it.
4 real
"No, we're fine, those look Hungarian." Classic.
Lol ik right
my vote for Mae's spirit animal is the Tankgewehr.
spooge1oh1 that or the Lewis
No way mate the Lewis was Othias .. he was foaming at the mouth sending lead down rang ... Mae is TG though and through ... even if it out weighs her
I concur, judging by the Grin (yes, capital g). Definitely the T-Gewehr.
Maybe if they'd made a revolving Tankgewehr, then I'd be able to confirm it as her spirit animal.
Stokes mortar.
This might be considered the only successful long recoil handgun. It seems that Austria-Hungary had an affinity for now discarded firearm designs.
Frommer looks like a bond villain for some reason. Also those glasses. Dang.
Rather chillingly, he looks like Fritz Haber, father of chemical warfare.
He looks like Doctor Evil.
If Mussolini was in the Adam's Family
ltflak ... AND father of fertilizer, and thereby modern agriculture!
Xavier. Frommer looks like xavier from x-men
Please don't ever change anything. You both have a synergy that is ,apparently, not known to either party. So being a very old soldier I will let the cat out of the bag. You have the best, most informative class on TH-cam. But i think we will have to keep that last from the kids. If they found out they were LEARNING there might be demonstrations. Heavens!
That is high praise!
just wanted to say thanks on the long recoil animation- finally got my head around how it works. I could never visualize it quite right before.
I am very glad to hear that!
huzzah! I'm noticed!
I want a "War was declared" compilation
War WERE declared! Philistine!
Why ... oh why is it "WERE"
@@scriptonite2182 thank the writers of futurama!
Actually, I am hungarian. And you said the FÉG pretty correctly. Congrats.Our language is really hard to spoke
Great show!
Takes one to know one.
I love how encouraging and connected the Guntuber community is
I love the mass excellorator!
Yours is good too.. poor danny..I couldn't even watch that episode..I wish you guys all the best I send my love..jst dnt tell anyone I was nice
@@joshuataft5541 thanks Josh
34:49 "But someone's hand like Othais.."
Half expected him to be wearing a prop gorilla hand at that moment.
damn.
Mae's Spirit Animal: T-Gewehr.
I've watched this video at least six times, and Othias' mini-rant about "why would you do a long-recoil pistol?" still makes me laugh. And the Stop itself is honestly kind of endearing. Yes, it's almost hideously over-engineered for the cartridge it fires, but at the same time the engineering that went into it is *absolutely gorgeous*. A damn sight better than the Mars, which pretty much explodes out the back of the action every time it fires because of how that particular steampunk nightmare was designed.
Double slo-mo. Double Mae. Double ammo types. Be still my heart. (edit: much love for the war were declared bump and history itself. on point as always)
When all the .32's for WWI are done Id love to see a Mae ranking on them.
Also, excited for upcoming scattergat episode since that is a firearm type we have yet to see on the series.
Your long and short recoil animation and explanation was brilliant. Clearly shows the difference between the two,.
I think Mae's spirit animal is the Remington 10A. Unique, pretty, but you do not want to be on the wrong end when she goes off.
so true
Last time I was this early Germany had a chance at winning the war.
That is damn early indeed.
Last time I was this early the Italians were only on the first Battle of the Isonzo
Tangero Last time I was this early, Europe still maintained peace and tranquility.
last time i was this early my gf left me.
Last time I was this early the French invented smokeless powder.
Mae's spirit animal is definitely the Ross Mk III. Perhaps not built for trench warfare, but finely crafted, accurate and is happy as long as you feed it good ammo and keep beard hairs out of the action.
By the way, another really great installment on your continuing march towards making the world safe for history. I only wish I could contribute beyond my small monetary donation. This is truly a worthwhile cause.
You are not kidding. Do you know we have filed a copyright dispute on at least 10 public domain songs so far? I am proud to say we have won them all but it makes music selection nerve wracking because we have to have the details per recording!
Those gold-plated tiger pattern Thompsons.... Pure sin.
Also Mae's spirit animal isn't the Reichsrevolver, it's the M1895 Nagant.
Two years late, but thank you so much for posting the original music!
Haha dang this was probably the funniest episode yet. The part with the Reichsrevolver and the War Were Declared were really funny and the long recoil pistol. This pistol is pretty interesting in its action because it does look like a mini M95 rifle bolt. Maybe you could find another one and strap them together upside down for us?
By the way, I think Mae's spirit gun is the Steyr Hahn because it's strong, reliable, battle ready, quirky, and if you mess with it the wrong way it'll throw cartridges back at your head.
I think May is a great shot! Also she makes the slow mo shots much easier to watch as I can see the genuine joy of shooting in her eyes! Keep up the good work May 😁
Hi, austro-hungarian here! It is pronounced [Feddi-wear yeesh Deeped-yaar-tow Ras-veen-tursh-a-shack] . Usually we just say FeG (pronounced "feeg" but the really long "ee", like "feeeeg")
I was just thinking we haven't seen a .32 in a while.
Welcome back to the All .32 channel.
That was freaking hilarious you trying to pronounce the full name of FÉG. Don't worry, even in hungary it is usually referred as FÉG (pronounced as a single word, not as F-É-G)
32acp compared to 32 Frommer, the 32 Frommer sounded crisper and higher pitched when fired.
I'm a audio engineer and can hear it without knowing what it means.
Thanx M&O
Othias, Mae, your videos are amazing! Keep up the good work, these videos will be encyclopaedic for years to come; your efforts definitely show through.
I like the Frommer... one of my favorites in my collection from the era. I got a .380 ACP model, which was much later on but I just like the way it shoots and feels. Its just... unique. No other way to put it. Although it doesnt see as much use as some of my other pistols from the era, its still one of my personal favorites. Definitely a head turner, especially lately with Battlefield One being so popular. I often shoot on my own private land but have gone to a few ranges lately and instead of the usual "What the heck is that?" I hear "Oh cool you got a Frommer Stop!".
Cant say I mind more people being into guns or knowing older firearms, but I hate what its done to the market prices.
All that mass in recoil made it look like an artillery piece rather than a pocket pistol. Mae made working with a difficult gun look easy.
...and after all that...it's .32. Reminds me of the tale of an elephant being a mouse built to government specifications. it's going to be a long action...STOP. Good work, people!
I totally forgot about that spirit animal bit and was like wtf is with all these spirit animal comments?!
OH Mea we all have an spirit animal Me iam a bear eat sleep or kill ya when I'am hungry then sleep ... My Gun spirit is a 50-cal black powder muzzle loader ....
While people might be saying the T-Gewehr, I'm going to say it's the Savage, as Mr. Beardy McBeardface established earlier.
My spirit animal is the Mars. Overly complicated, breaks down a lot, and is impractical in most situations.
@@baronmagroth758 Only a fifty? You are missing so much. The 62 rifled barrel is the best. Deer elk moose and bear are not a problem, but the twist is so long that pheasant, grouse ptarmigan and quail are not a problem either. If I remember correctly, when I rifled that barrel I did a 1to 110 twist. It might be longer, I forged that barrel almost 25 years ago and I've had a couple a serious head injuries since then and NO, NONE OF THEM WERE FIREARM RELATED! Well that's kinda not true, I had a 762x39 graze my helmet so lightly in Kuwait that I didn't know it had happened. Ahhh, the smell of burning crude oil in the morning! 😨😨💩👃😫
Person: hey, I brought cookies
Frommer: Nice!
5 hours later...
Person: *Sleeping*
(Crunching)
Person: huh?
(walks downstairs)
Person: Finds Frommer Eating all the cookies)
Person: >.> Frommer...
Frommer: What? (mouthful of cookies)
person: FROMMER, STOP!
16 years later...
(polishing pistol)
Frommer: hmmm.. what should I name this pistol?
(flashback of person saying frommer stop)
Frommer: AHA!
This is the story of how the Frommer Stop Pistol was created
C&Rsenal thanks
Greeting from Hungary!
I just found this video and the channel, but I'm already impressed :) I didn't finish the video, because I have to thank you for my sweet moments, when I heard the song at the range scene :)
Glad you enjoyed it
I like how all of Austria-Hungary's pistols look like ray guns.
I just wanna say, great effort on the pronunciation! Much better than I expected, and extra kudos for pronouncing Budapest they way it's supposed to be pronounced.
Thanks!
Y'all need to put that h in then
Mae likes Star Trek AND guns?! Do you have a sister by any chance :)
LMAO
Does that imply she's taken? :(
@@adamtrombino106 What does under the same roof imply? ;- )
The Austro-Hungarians were very wise in their thinking, using stripper clips for their pistols, just like their rifles. Back in those days, mass manufacturing disposable box magazines was not easy to do on the cheap, but mass manufacturing stripper clips on the cheap was for sure easy to do on the cheap. And then when you take into consideration their thinking of "no loose rounds" it becomes even more wise! I'm very impressed, and would have loved to see the British and Commonwealth take these measures during WW1 or at least WW2.
Stripper clips! Even if you have 0 interest in this gun, watch this episode. Othias’ explanation of why the Austro-Hungarian Empire used stripper clips with pistols! Actually makes a lot of military sense!
should have made it bigger with a bigger cartridge to take advantage of the long recoil design. The military wants a high powered cartridge, and THIS design is able to handle such a cartridge, and yet he never tried selling such a pistol. The mind boggles.
2:54 Othias plays the record backwards. PMRC hears something Satanic. C&Rsenal shut down.
After watching the how it's made video, I have a new appreciation for you guys. It takes much longer than I thought and many sleepless nights for Othais and Mae but thanks for this great content.
Thanks for watching!
getting woken from my sleep by the war were declared earrape is always a trip
Nice looking pistole!
"Why would you make a long recoil pistol"???? Ba-ha-ha-ha.... I love it.... And yes, Mae is Great.... ;-)
$100... where is this pawn shop?
I was thinking the same thing. I need to stop by there from time to time and see what they are selling, ha.
In Austria you can get one of those bad boys for around 100€ all the time.
usmcnewdog98 I got one for $150
Speckles Good buy friend!
usmcnewdog98 haha thank you! Sadly the extractor was broken on it but luckily I found another! It's currently being worked on by a smith so hopefully it'll be firing in no time lol
Wait, that's not Mark. Where's Mark?
vogonford he was last week
45:42 - "WHY WOULD YOU DO A LONG RECOIL PISTOL?!" (I... I just can't even... I have no words.)
Drakegmbh is involved in this? I should have known. I hope he’s well, I have admired his work on Gunnit since before the /r/firearms split
"War were declared" still cracks me up. Looks like an interesting little pistol.
Another great episode. Love me some weird semi-autos.
I know it's comparing apples to oranges but for some reason I'm reminded of the old Auto Mag pistols in terms of some features of the action. Yes, yes I know, it's all in my head....My wife would tend to agree and she's always right. As a side note: If you have not heard, an acquaintance of yours, and my cousin and personal hero, Ewell "Buddy" Sturgis passed away recently. Excellent video on a pistol I once, many years ago, had a chance to purchase w/original holster and extra magazine (also from a pawn shop) for $75.00 in American greenbacks, but passed on it because I was younger and somewhat dumber than I am today. The pistol, holster, and BOTH magazines appeared to be in unissued or at least unused condition. The sad part is that I purchased a Spanish made clone of the "Baby" Colt (basic 1911A1 pattern minus a grip safety) in .380ACP instead. And that pistol was a total disaster in my book because it DID lack a grip safety and I nearly shot myself with it on more than one occasion while I owned it. Oh if I had only known then what I know now. Take care and keep up the great work you do!
Thanks!
he seems to say it's a complex gun but it actually has less parts than a 1911, which i think its pretty good since it has that little bolt and two springs and stuff.
maybe it's just me but when you guys shot the frommer 32acp round, that little handgun sounded so much beefier then the normal 32acp round. It sounds awesome.
is kinda dope
Oh man, thanks for the talking handgun, I needed a lol.
worst bit ever
Mae's spirit pistol is the mosin revolver.... lol.. sorry, I couldn't resist. Please don't shoot me Mae. 😗
I think Maes spirit animal is T-Gewehr. at least it makes her look as a Fairy :)
Your pronunciation of the Fegyver És Gépgyár is surprisingly good. Commendable effort! 👍🏻
Hmm, one region as the industrial/population/urban base and the other region largely agrarian? Well, damn, it worked out so well with Italy and the U.S.
4 real
It is over-complicated, but it's elegant.
Haha, I often thought the same thing about this pistol. It is such a wonderful, but totally not needed design. This pistol really is a great design. What would also be a great design is pinning the barrel to the inside of the tube, put only one spring in the top tube, and make it a simple blow back, ha.
GENIUS
This channel needs way more subs!
we got u babe
I was looking for this just yesterday, I suppose I was just a bit early.
Wouldn't mind seeing a video on a m1909 mauser. Even though it's a gewehr 98 variation, there's hardly any in-depth info about markings or production numbers. I think it would also be a great video to make because it also explains the gap in production between the 1909-1914 at DWM and would introduce people to their history since they seem to be making a return in the market.
The entire firearms industry:
"Blow back actions are more than capable of handling 32 acp, anythibg else is overly complicated and heavy."
Frommer:
"Hold my beer and watch this"
Those hella cool grooves.....
Sorry Mae, I want to say your spirit animal is the wall gun, but I'm afraid it is actually a labour-doodle, (caramel brown in colour). Hey, very cute and lovable dogs, great with kids as well and I've heard many are sci-fi geeks as well. :-)
I got a neon yellow toy dart gun back when I was a kid, and had always thought it looked like a Former stop pistol. And, I think Mae's spirit animal would be the St. Etienne M1907 machine gun.
Nice low bore position, a strong promotional point for modern handguns.
If a heel release protrudes beyond the bottom of the magazine (as in the P-38, but that's a subject for another war), it's actually very easy to use. Maintain your strong hand grip, bring the heel of your off-hand front to back along the bottom of the magazine, push back on the release and, if necessary, use you off-hand fingers to pull down on the front of the magazine floor plate. Eazy-peazy, but a two handed job.
The difficulty occurs when that release button is recessed behind the magazine. And, yes, then it sucks.
Based on that perma smile Mae had during the Lewis gun episode, I'm gonna say the Lewis gun is her spirit animal.
May's spirit animal has to be the Carcano: advanced, under appreciated, and great for starting an argument about the SMLE
Great video. I am still out looking for a Frommer for my collection. That is a very fine specimen.
Seems like a prime candidate for smg conversiob with the robust closed bolt action and ability to shoot ridiculously hot cartridges.
Dang, what a piece of work! I almost bought one of those at a LGS and Wes, the kindly proprietor was real iffy on selling it to me. I was a bit puzzled by his attitude and bought something else, since forgotten. He knew that Im more a shooter than a collector and didnt realise what I would have been getting in to...After watching this video I realise what a goatfook that pistol is and so very glad I DIDNT get it...
Experience told Frommer that short recoiled guns were not that reliable because of the manufacturing the springs. These coil springs would break. So, he went for the long recoil, to allow the coil springs to do less 'work', by increasing the length. If you replace these springs in your Frommer Short with modern springs, I reckon the reliability would go up.
Y'all have been hanging onto that Kropatschek since at least this episode! I praise your dedication to good research!
Do I see the Air Service without a mag in the collection as well?
Keep up the good work and I do enjoy coming back to these older videos, both to watch and kick a bit your direction if they've been remonetized.
When Mae talked for the gun, I fucking died laughing. Also, thanks for the birthday present (The Tank Gewehr shooting segment video posted today, my birthday, and I couldn't have asked for a better birthday present :P)
Happy birthday!!
Thanks ^_^
imagine locking the bolt for the 7.65 x 17 cartridge. even the mars pistol action makes more sense
I've got one. Love it.
If there was any more flannel in this episode, it would be off the charts.
The only way of a video having more flannel than this is being a daddy garands video
C&Rsenal I hope you don't mind if I post a link to Forgotten Weapons, Ian has a really in-depth video about clips and magazines, I thought maybe someone might be interested:
th-cam.com/video/G3zQb3KZpNM/w-d-xo.html
Nobody is going to mind that here. Ian is great.
Thank you Robin.
The muzzle flip on that thing is so much for .32 ACP.
Very interesting. Seems to dump a lot of kinetic energy into the shooter's arms. I still love Steyr Mannlicher firearms today.
Mae's spirit animal? I am going to be thinking about that all day.
The main reason you do not see these often is the fact that they were easy to pull the slide back on and chamber a round! Women loved it because even they could easily chamber a round. So these little .32 cal pistols were kept in the family.
Love the tokarev on the wall
I have got to start checking out local pawn shops. What a deal Susie made.
18:11 No one expects the frommer stop spring!
How many lugs are actually there? Ian from forgotten weapons said 3 lugs. Othias by the way mentioned one lug (haven't watched full video yet), other sources say 2 lugs which is the most likely.
Bolt face, seem to have two lugs - topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-12/1482705745_7-stop-bolt.jpg
Unlocked bolt and barrel - topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-12/1482705758_11-bolt_unlocked.jpg
Locked bolt and barrel - topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-12/1482705774_10-bolt_locked.jpg
Upper locking surface is visible - topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-12/1482705747_9-bolt_camgroove.jpg
Step near the chamber seem to be locking surface for second lug - topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-12/1482705809_16-753fs-r-comp-m.jpg
Good job guys, I am generally curious what cambering would be good for action of this type in your opinion?
nothing really. The scale up would be awful
Makes sense with all that mass going, back and forth, the way it looks in slow motion reminds me of an artillery piece. Thank you for your responce and keep up the great work :D
One of the big reasons lots of people built .32 acp and .380 pistols that weren't pure blowback was that Browning had many of those patents all locked up during this time period. Why make a blowback gun if you can't have a fully enclosed slide with an integral breachblock?
Also lots of these traditional blowback calibers use locked or partially locked actions during this time period. Savage did with their early pocket models. Pederson did too. If you can't have an integral breachblock, it sort of makes sense to do something with that extra component you're required to have.
The odd thing here though is how FeG was fine stepping on patents through the whole development! Blowback was certainly widely used without trouble. It is bizarre.
All I ever find in the pawn shops by me are Saturday Night Specials and worn out shotguns with an occasional tacticooled overpriced SKS, I'd love to find WW1 surplus just once...
Matthew Shermer my friend just found a Krag carbine at a pawnshop for $500......
Yet another great episode.