Joker Spoiler Discussion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ต.ค. 2019
- The Soup Gang discusses the most controversial movie of 2019, "Joker."
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wait.. they kept saying he was "misspelling sense" I'm unsure if they are aware that spelling it "cents" was part of the joke? "I hope my death makes more CENTS than my life" or am i missing something here?
No you're right, that was the whole point of the joke. "I hope my death makes more $$$ than my life"
Aaron is illiterate lol
Yup, you're right.. that's the whole joke
Yea he even crossed out se then wrote cents although I'm not sure I get the joke. Which might be the joke...
@@DecoraPunk I just had an inner conflict with myself because i was so confused how these guys didn't catch that so I thought i was going crazy haha.
"Cents" instead of "sense" was not a misspelling, it was a joke with a double meaning IMO, hence that is life has no monetary value but the 3 attacker seemed to have that kind of value in spite of being despicable people.
Spot on.
I believe it means that he has made no money in his life and hopes he is richer in death. Remember his mother keeps complaining to him about how poor they are.
Correct
Tom Ramos genuinely how does anyone not understand the joke😂
you guys are crazy, first off he had that written in his journal before the movie even starts so it has nothing to do with those 3 wall street guys who jumped him and second, richer in death? what does that even mean? To me it seemed like he was just a bad speller. he had multiple other words in is journal misspelled
Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I thought his unintentional way of inciting the riots among a few other parts was kind of how he learned social engineering. He had no idea he had any influence and then all of a sudden he realizes he can manipulate people and he'll probably find it hilarious.
They are forgetting this isnt THE Joker yet but the birth of the Joker.. There was definitely a sense of cunning and smugness at the end of the movie with that therapist.
Agree... This is the baby step of joker... Joker in the dark knight is the final product
I think it has more to do as a criticism about the media and people especially now days. It discusses how we put are personal view and beliefs in a situation with first hearing all the fact. For example the sub way shooting was self defence (first and arguably the second guy) the third was murder but you can argue insanity defence. However it had nothing to do with poor eat the rich. It’s the media that push this narrative because Mr Wayne said that the poor are clowns. So you have a clown who shoot people on the train. All the witnesses are dead or run off. That is the only evidence.
Holy cow, of course "cents" was a double entendre guys.
The Dark Knight was more enjoyable, but this movie moved me more and hit me with more emotions. So I think they are both great in two different ways.
Bodharas ya I’ll dig that
Bodharas exactly, don’t compare
"I got called for that?"
"It's not the f****n' fire dept."
🤣🤣🤣
“I may be a homicidal maniac but I’m an American homicidal maniac!"
I agreed with Teddy about a lot of this but I didnt really like the pace in the first half.
Beau is right, the best Batman origin was done at the end of this. A more grounded and detective Batman type might fit in this world.
Completely agree, everyone loves this film, and I honestly found it kinda boring the pacing in the first act wasn't great
I disagree and feel like getting to know Arthur Fleck was so important in understanding Joker and made the build up of the final half hour or so a much bigger deal. The pacing was perfect for me but each to their own.
Todd Phillips also is the only to have a accurate depiction of Gotham City it actually felt like a Character
That's because he copied Taxi Driver which was the original to use New York City as a character.
Supreme nope he did not
as soon as I was about to get in the car for an hour! been waiting on this one; you guys are the best!!
I think the dialogue is fantastic, because it's organic & realistic.
Some people expected Dark Knight dialogue, but don't realize how much it wouldn't fit in this world/film.
Todd phillips built a world where people talk to each other like regular, everyday people....not a place where people make grand speeches out of every line.
@Donald Smith Arthur in the beginning, & Arthur at the end on the 'tonight show' sounded *completely different*
He truly was the Joker persona at the end...at least in my opinion
I loved this film but fuck me that “loner/mental illness x society” line was REALLY bad. It stuck out like a sore thumb because it felt like a 10th grader wrote it. In a film that up to that point was a masterclass in film making AND acting, that line stood out as being weirdly amateurish. and the more I think about it, the more I feel Arthur as depicted in this film could never have that level of self awareness. It felt like Todd Phillips turning to the camera and saying “hey guys, in case you didn’t get it over the last 90 minutes, this is what the movie meant”.
Joker wasn’t “The Joker we know” until the end of the movie. If there’s a sequel we’ll probably see a pretty gnarly heist. Also don’t discredit him. He was able to come up with a lie about the gun going off on the spot. He infiltrated Arkham and stole documents by punking a guy out in a psycho way. And then he deconstructed Murray in a very articulate way, before carrying out a premeditated murder on live television. He’s not an idiot in this movie. By the end of the movie he’s learned that because of the chaos he’s caused, he’s rewarded by other’s normalizing his behavior (which is what he’s wanted), and feeding into his delusions about bringing happiness into the world, by seeing the angry lower class people taking a stand, and doing what they perceive to be “right”, while also enjoying the positive emotion that comes along with causing chaos. The pieces had to be set in this movie. I don’t understand people who complain about that. It’s what the whole movie is...setting up this character. The fact that Todd Phillips was able to do all of that in such a meta way, by portraying all of these real life mental health issues, that people choose to ignore on a daily basis, and using those issues as the causality for Joker’s decent, is why this movie is fucking genius. I would rather have this movie, than the “multi-choice origin story” (which I also love), because this movie was that good.
Don't forget he took advantage of his surrounding on the subway when the cops were chasing him
The810kid I totally forgot about that. I also feel like him getting the shit kicked out of him in the beginning shows him having to be in survival mode more than the average person, since he’s more vulnerable to abuse. Of course he’d be used to trying to navigate through the easiest route of stress possible. Even him squirting the flower, while he’s on the ground, holding his dick n balls, could allude to him trying to save his optimism.
You could argue that his meds had his intelligence sedated. As he they left his system the cunning and forethought returns.
Mark Fenwick A Joker with a 3rd Eye. I dig it. Henceforth he shall be known as Woker.
I think my absolute favorite part of this movie is that so much is left up to interpretation.
Did he kill Zazie Beetz's character? Did he let her daughter go? Did his co-worker *really* give him that gun or did he just buy it? Did he *really* get jumped or did he *actually* steal the sign? Were those guys on the subway *actually* assholes that pushed him, or was it all in his head?
The reveal that he was seeing things changes how you can see the whole movie and really harkens back to that Killing Joke quote: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice." The whole movie might just be one way Joker is remembering his origin!
I can't wait to see all of the theories that come out around this movie and which of them are true.
I liked this movie way more than you guys seemed to like it.
I LOVED it but I had issues with it here and there, and it’s actually really refreshing to hear a tale where people aren’t just heaping praise on it. It’s nice to hear someone parse our what didn’t work in a chorus of “it was the greatest thing ever”.
Just wanted to say love the channel been watching since you guys started with GOT you guys are awesome keep up the great content!
Got an hour of work still, what a clutch video drop.
Look as a 20 year old polisci major that line isn't something I'd tweet, it's what my bio would be.
When he kills the dudes on the subway it was at first self defense but him hunting down the last dude and shot him in the back 3 times that would be considered murder. It was self defense then he felt control for the first time then he wants to finish the dude and murders him
Ya he felt the power and got addicted
I think the problem everyone has with the film is how realistic and down to earth it is almost a reflection of our modern day psychopath while other violence is so over the top it is more numbing viewed as a over dramatization of life
There's a reason why the best horror movies nowadays are the ones a lot more grounded and with less "OOGA BOOGA" jump scare demons. A demon staring you in the face or a crazy guy going around bombing buildings would be terrifying irl, but something more grounded is easier to relate to, invest into, and see yourself in those situations.
Yeah I think people are just terrified of how much they relate to Arthur in the movie. Added with how visceral and raw the shooting of Murray on tv is, theyre just freaked out.
It also gets a little too close to the truth that the whole system relies on consensus of the population to continue and that there is always the potential for things to fall apart .... quickly. "They think we'll all just sit there and take it like good little boys! That we won't werewolf and go wild!"
Yea it's feels so real when he kills ppl...
I was waiting for this review
my favorite thing about this movie is that it got me really rooting for him. By the end of it, I was starting to think they do all deserve what is coming to them.
@i SkyWalKing thanks
Ive been waitimg for this!!!!! I saw it tues after opening weekend
I feel like everyone is missing that He was never Arthur Fleck hes not Thomas Waynes son, he is THE JOKER. He never had a day in his life where he was happy or had control. He had a limp and walked with his shoulders close together. But when he finally dawns the persona, Who he was meant to be he walked with swagger. If you believe he is Waynes son cool thats what Phillips wanted he wants the audience to have their own Opinions and Thoughts. What we believe about his Backstory is the truth to us. But he was always meant to be the Joker. Thats my biggest take away.
I love you guys, you are awesome!!! I always learn things and have so much fun listening to your podcast :)
The tone and role he played in requiem for a dream makes me think Leto could of come close to portraying Joker like Phoenix, btw great review guys, that intro caught me off guard haha
could have* come
I just noticed,on second watch, that both Joker and Batman's story start with being in the floor in an alley.
I'm also not convinced the scene on the police car at the end actually happened...
i love that despite the fact that it's an origin story they still managed to incorporate the multiple choice element and keep his backstory mysterious
I like how when he is putting on his makeup near the end and he turns the photo of his young mother over to see, "Love your smile -T.W." Implying she was never delusional and everything she was saying in the flashback was true. He just crumples the photo like, "that ship has sailed."
Don’t normally watch on TH-cam and stick to Spotify, but had to drop by an say Teddy’s laugh is solid.
The movie as a whole was great. My only minor complaint is that some of the scenes prolong too much, the movie itself is really well paced but some scenes aren't. The most confusing thing to me tho is how many videos and articles I've about the "themes" and "hidden meanings" of this movie when it's really not subtle at all. All in all nive discussion boys!
Sounds like the aliens from Mars Attacks.
No one is born a criminal mastermind, but he ends up in the role and embraces it. It seems to me that the film hints that he becomes a criminal mastermind as a result of learning how easily people can be manipulated and controlled. All his medication make him makes him clumsy, slouched and mentally slow and he has been on it most his life. Once he is off it he is his "true" self for the first time and who he feels he is meant to be.
hahah you lost me at"he couldn't spell cents right". You know that was spelled on purpose "cents" and not sense...
Anyone else notice the comedian they used in the standup set, Gary Gulman, has a comedy special on HBO where he discusses mental health issues he has had to deal with all his life. Great standup, highly recommended and very fitting to put him in the movie.
One of America’s top 5 best podcasts here. Certainly my #1 for all things cinematic/Hollywood entertainment and reviews. Bo/Beau (sp?) OUTSTANDING host and mediator and Aaron/Teddy are thunder and lightning in a tag team target and triangulate on the overall review. Aaron more the intellectual but, whose comedic timing is like Tyson’s 88 uppercut although Aaron is not so eager to land his which I sincerely respect as trying to hard would damage the product and likely take a bit more where Teddy tends to chime in with the less layered takes on the things reviewed. Teddy is a charismatic and affable bastard and Bo/Beau, what else can you say? The kid is the “equalizer” he acts as the fulcrum and balances it all out. Love it all. Especially reviews of good films. You guys are awesome. Cheers
Yo, no lie this is hands down Teddy's best discussion. I feel like he's usually trying to keep up with Beau and Aaron but in this discussion I felt like he made the best points
Aaron D teddy is underrated
Gentleman I've been here from the beginning and I'm not going to lie to you your channel has grown so much I want to hate on it I really do I want to talk s*** and say the Game of Thrones made you and the one episode that you did with the white walkers was legitimately what submitted you but it's the quality of the channel that has kept it going since the ending of Game of Thrones looking forward to more videos and looking forward to the next Game of Thrones adventure with you guys keep it up
Off to a good start 😂🔥
You mention him getting into the security event with Thomas Wayne. I would like to have seen him do that as well as get onto the Wayne grounds in a clever way. As well as may be making neat inventions or even medicines for his mom. That would have given us at least the high intelligence that I expect of the Joker
the original script fills in a few of the continuity issues
he manages to sneak in to meet Thomas Wayne because the security is occupied by massive riots outside
he takes a new gun off his dead coworker, explaining where he suddenly has more bullets
the masks are based on the description of his makeup from the subway shooting (probably given by the woman who was on the train) he takes one of the masks and bases his final design on it
To defend the movie. Who’s to say Joker started off as a criminal mastermind. Maybe he started only killing those who did him wrong and as time went on farther he got farther from the moral line.
dux bellorum I liked him learning how to use chaos as a tool when the detectives chase him through the crowd.
It wasn’t “continuity issues “ with no cuffs or when he slips past the cops...it was all intentional!! Because a lot of it happened in his head...he is an unreliable narrator!
Normally the death of Thomas Wayne is a bit tiresome. But in this film it works brilliantly. I think this is due to to the fact that it occurs amidst the climax of the film.
The fact that some random clown kills Wayne only further highlights the impact the Joker had. He truly is chaos personified.
I thought it would be the same old batman origin but I liked it in this film. Thomas seemed like a piece of shit.
@@natesmith2408 if you read comics, Thomas Wayne has always been shady
@@godspeed2272 shady yeah but he feels like a guy who is just needlessly a prick who looks down on society. Not the humanitarian type he's often portrayed as.
Spider-Man could get some lesson on
How to kill parents/uncles
When Thomas and Martha Wayne got killed and you see Bruce standing over them, the score sounded reminiscent to Hans Zimmer's Dark Knight theme.
It plays for a few seconds a couple of times in the film
I feel like either the continuity errors you mentioned there’s a chance they were intentional- to indicate that the scene was a fantasy projection of arthur’s mind. There’s a chance he never snuck into the theatre(super unlikely given all the security) or ran into Wayne. At the end of the scene The film snap cuts back to his apartment in the same pose as how he was standing in the theatre bathroom. Showing that it might have been imaginary. Similarly with the end. How does a random mob co-ordinate it’s actions to attack the convoy that is holding the joker and and then reverently celebrate him without any clear guidance. the fact that he’s suddenly not wearing handcuffs could be a way to show that the scene has slipped from reality and is now an idealized version in his mind, of the way the violence in the city is unfolding and identified with/celebrating him.
He could have been in Arkham Asylum the whole movie for all we know xD
Maybe I'm mistaken and if so please point me in the right direction, but after a quick search I couldn't find a video or podcast about the dark knight trilogy or Heath Ledger's perfomance specifically. It seems like you guys have alot of opinion about it and enjoy the dark knight (who doesn't) and now more than ever it seems somehow of actuality. Great content as always
I noticed the got targareyn music too...👌🏼
"When you give me my Joker could you introduce me as Oscar?"
Great movie, a great omage to 70's Cinema, and a great stand alone character piece.
Around the 35-minute park when they I talkin about Arthur killing those people in the subway.
The first one was self defense the second one was a little shady and the third one he chased down.
As the subway opened he dashed toward the door weighted for the injured man to leave running and then left and chased and pursued him shot him in the back, murdering him and then found a bathroom and did a yoga dance. that's when Joker came into frowition.
Solid discussion with three movie geeks with good wit and chemistry. +1
"All i have is negative thoughts,but you don't
Listen...."arthur/joker
This was a great movie. Joaquin Phoenix was immense! After listening to interviews with the director I understand this movie more. Arthur Fleck isn't Batman's Joker, but might be an inspiration to Batman's Joker. Besides, there's a huge age difference between Arthur Fleck and Bruce Wayne, whereas Batman and Joker more or less has the same age.
I'm disappointed that you guys didn't go into his illusions. There are many people speculating that many of the scenes were just Arthur's illusion, and they make some good points. Was looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Todd said it's open to discussion but I think it's intended he is hid Joker
YO CRICKET! METAL GEAR REVIEWS. this is a reminder
same i love the social network really i love anything sorkin
I really didn't like how intelligent he seemed but if they make a sequel I'd like to see him develop into his criminal genius and actually have some agency and showing him growing into his leadership position...
My only issue with the movie was the fact they used a Gary glitter song
Same. It was the only disturbing aspect of the movie for me, everything else was amazing.
Why should it matter thou, the song is great, liking his songs doesn't justify his actions.
@@martyvenkman860 it actually doesn't matter to me I was kinda makin a joke about the controversy xD
@@martyvenkman860 by using his song in the movie he would've gotten money from it
I loved that. It was a brilliant decision to use that song at the height of Joker's dysfunction, and his celebrational dance on the steps.
The JOKER is NOT a superhero movie!
teddy bless him
It's a double entendre. Here's another
Real eyes realize real lies.
Imagine if Shindlers List came out in 2020: “ oh no, it’s too dark”. Yeah no shit
The only thing that I didnt like about Joker was the age continuity. Joker is in his 30s(??) in this film and meets a 10yr old(??) Batman? In just about every other version I've seen of Batman involving Joker they seem to be the same age. If Batman in this movie was 10ish then by the time he gets to be an adult wouldn't Joker be late 50s early 60s??? Someone please explain cuz ya girl is confused lol. Otherwise absolutely loved this film. JP was amazing!
Roze Ayyyeee I do agree the age thing is a bit convoluted perhaps it’s from hindsight since they want this to be a stand alone movie.
@@veleo6935 I could see that but they put so much detail and thought into the film it seems like an odd thing to miss.
Roze Ayyyeee that’a true, I can see where your coming from. Maybe if they wanted to make a sequel, they could have a young Batman in his early 20s and the joker be in his early 40s.
@@veleo6935 That would be interesting. I know they probably won't but I'd love a Joker sequel with Joaquin Phoenix.
Roze Ayyyeee me too, I couldn’t picture anyone else but him.
Joker is Maleficent done right
He did mean to kill the people on the subway. He chased down the last guy.
I think that was more to get rid of a witness.
AFchris77 I don’t think that someone who was worried only about self defense would chase someone down and kill them.
I think he didn't mean to kill the first guy but quick realized he had to kill all of them so he wouldn't get caught.
Nate Smith I interpreted it that he was overcome with rage when he killed them.
@@treehugers1000 maybe after the first one. It looked like he was accidentally fired the gun on instinct and then just went with it lol
Teddy the people’s champion
on you tube!!!
Why is there -11:11- on the clock at his work, the "flashback" to the hospital and on the one at his psychiatrist?
takamineg17 no way!
Guys don't sleep on Knives Out.
I was expecting a lot more from this flick, a lot more. Of course...there are so many comic/graphic novel movies being made maybe it's general burnout. Maybe it's Ledger's creating sheer perfection in his Joker, taking fantastic dialogue to levels to rival any drama cinema has produced... I see what they were trying for, but it's become the cliche anymore, is the bad guy really a bad guy when life's shit on him? Phoenix has turned in some great performances-to me anyway-but...just nothing really worked for me on this one.
I watched this movie this weekend and i was so impressed . Firstly i didnt find fault at all with this joker and the people need to understand that we live in a world were most violent people were once innocent and just bullied till they go over the edge and add mental illness into the mix and we get a joker
Its crazy how people wanted to be introduced to a serial killer straight off the bat and not want to know what pushed the serial killer over the edge, i felt so bad for joker he was a innocent man who wanted more for himself and society kept pushing him into a deep dark hole and thus we got the birth of the joker....The build up was terrific i have 0 complaints im thoroughly satisfied at how this movie started and ended
The story I tell myself is that this is the inspiration "Our Joker" gets the whole clown idea from.
This is only the beginning of Joker. He just came to be his destiny. You can't expect him to be a Mastermind. Heath's Joker is already an established Joker.
I loved how this Joker was really just an opportunist who figured out that the angry underbelly of Gotham was where he could find the love he always craved.
Can someone answer this question to me, please? What is the connection between the main character of this movie and the comik book joker besides the name and the green hair?
He's in Gotham, he is Arthur Fleck which is the backstory used from The Killing Joke comic. The Wayne's family is in it, and actually play a huge role in the story. It even has Arkham. It has a great deal of connections.
Can you be more precise? -Because to me Joaquin was the only one that captured comic book Joker essence (or a common denominator of the many versions of comic book Joker) without even needing the exposition or the set pieces to demonstrate the character.-That was my impression. So what is actually "the comic book Joker" in your view?
@@skullgarden2417 Ok, but lets rename Fleck and the Waynes and let the story happen in another city. What is the connection then? I mean, you could as well rename Travis Bickle into Arthur Fleck and have him green hair instead of an iro.
Most of the controversy is related to the fact that it's Joker and the Aurora Colorado movie theater Batman premiere shooting. The shooter looked similarly to the Joker and there were unsubstantiated rumors that he called himself that during his arrest but it's been denied by the police.
That rumor was true, the police didn't want any copycats which is an obvious choice.
@@rastiga9196 yea I'm gonna go ahead and believe the police on this one and not InfoWars.
If you think that a simple denial would prevent copy-cats that's laughable, lol.
@@AFchris77 So the picture of him right after painted like the Joker with his hair colored green was fake huh? Who knew.
@@AFchris77 Furthermore, what would you say to prevent copycats? You'll die or go to jail, oh no. They won't expect that lol.
He was never the joker. Never claimed to be. Just more proof of the ways the media lies and incites fear.
When joker is in his room he has the clown mask on his mirror. The whole clown riots were in his head. The riots were for the garbage strike but in Arthurs head they were all wearing the clown mask. Like you said. Do you think everyone in ny,uhh excuse me, gotham bouth the same mask from the same guy? It was part of arthurs delusion
Joaquin Phoenix was fantastic in Joker but critics are saying that Adam Driver could win best actor for Marriage Story 👀
A lot of critics also said this movie was too disturbing....
I was thinking that with the 3 good jokers (sit down letto I didnt mean you) In live action cinema they represent the fears and anxieties of the current social economic state that they were created in. Jack Nicholson's joker was made in the eighties which was a time of economic and materialistic success. So the bulk of people were pretty happy middle class people, Hence why he was using the materialism of make up products and so on to attack Gotham. The Dark Knight was made in 2008. By this point there was growing anxieties about terrorism and Questioning politics and what is truly moralistic but in the end we still root for the traditional hero. The last decade since The Dark Knight Has seen a shift in the social economical and political landscape where the government is not at all for the people, mental illness is on the rise and the access to the help they need to function is non existant. Each joker is a reflection of the times.
Yea him spelling sense as cents was part of the joke.
Teddy I shit my pants, can you pick me up?... I'm scared
I kinda like that he wasn't a mastermind but a regular guy per se that "fell" into the role? Just because it punched more how he was more of a symbol that Gotham "created", like Gotham had this problem that this guy was a product of and Gotham PUT him into this role and all he did was embrace it. One of the many Joker theories is that there're multiple jokers so I could see that theory working with this where say the first Joker's this regular guy is impacted by Gotham's broken system and say dies outside the public's knowledge or something but inspires someone else to take up the Joker persona thats calculating and manipulative like the Joker we all know because in this movie hes more of a belief and idea maybe even "mantle", PLUS the public didnt really knew who he was but his "public" persona if that makes sense. In this way he rivals batman in the fact that he's almost an urban legend or myth or even title that Gotham created as opposed to Batman intentionally creating his myth/lore. That would also explain the different ages of joker in various Batman movies and shows along with driving home an even larger motivation to Batman hating him, in that hes almost this belief or idea thats always been around Bruce who can't get rid of
thats stupid. theres no "several" versions of jokers. Batman Beyond shows that no one comes after them except Terry
@@diegoaespitia well, not several but there's a theory that there's THREE jokers that been around since Killing Joke. Plus it would explain how in some origins its Joker who killed Bruce Wayne's parents and in other versions its just some regular schmoe.
They know that Arthur fleck is the joker in this film. They literally call Arthur to bring him on the show. Then he kills him. Arthur then goes into the asylum. No one can take the Mantle without people knowing oh that is a new joker not Arthur.
Definitely my favorite movie of the year, possibly of this decade.
LordZuko bruh, it’s not that good
ZachAttackPro Neither is Minecraft. I find it hard to think of a better movie that has come out this year.
LordZuko this year, one of the bests, the decade, no way. It’s already not the all time best of the decade because of inception
Just think of how much better their opinions of this movie would be if somebody could tell them that Arthur didn't misspell "sense", they just didn't get the joke.
Question: Do you think this will be the new formula for DC films moving forward?
Phlegm * DC Dark singular movies, embrace the darkness
How about when he suffocated his mom, yet she was hooked up to O2 for a continuity error.
I don’t get this obsession of joker being a mastermind. He never has been. He represents pure chaos. His success resides in his unpredictability. He sees the world and his plans like no one else which is why batman struggles to work him and his plans out. That’s his genius - the fact he is the antithesis of genius. This portrayal was perfection and Ledger had the same vibe. How can you solve a criminal with no motive?
When Critics and News outlets talk about how this film might incite Violence even though we’ve been having that Convo sin the 90’s with video games and movies. But completely miss the messages about Mental Illness, Social Divide, Poverty, and Just not being a dick!!
That laugh 😂😂😂
But like, Joker was not a mastermind in Killing Joke. It’s more about how he says fuck it all
I think your missing the point that this is the birth of the joker
He isn’t THE joker yet
I don’t think there is that much of a jump between the joaquin phoenix joker and health ledger joker - I think the biggest difference is time
Health ledgers joker already did time in Arkham - he didn’t just appear in Gotham fully formed as that
Joaquins joker at the very end in arkham has the potential to evolve into a criminal mastermind once he inevitably escapes
Hello guys, I understand your point about this Joker not being this sort of "Yang-mastermind". But I think the movie is very well balanced in that sense: the Joker didn't choose to become the Joker and Bruce doesn't choose his faith either, they are both put in that situation of having to become something else in order to overcome their current situation.
In order for the Joker of Joaquín Phoenix to truly embrace his skills (like Heath Ledger's Joker) Batman needs to exist as well. As long as Bruce is just Bruce, the Joker won't be this mastermind you expected. Maybe the intention of the movie is to show what fuels future Joker and future Batman.
You guys should read batman ego trip: Jokers got fans in europe trust me
I feel like their won't be a sequel, it doesn't need one. The end showing him as joker, I wish I could see more of that joker as a developed, rather more realistic villain. Seeing Bruce Wayne become "Batman" but a more realistic version in complimentary to Phoenix's realistic Joker would be interesting. I mean come on though lol there were still things like super rats running around 😂. I wasn't happy that Todd Phillips chose this comic book character to express his obsession with the Taxi Driver movie and The King of Comedy...
This joker didn't realize his position in life until the riots.
He wasn't supposed to be a mastermind in this take, or at least not yet (assuming it's not just a one-off).
He's more of a symbol of the oppressed and abused, forgotten, and mentally ill and in the end was just a catalyst for the riots.
His murder of Murray wasn't even intended until that last second, which shows just how much of a maniac he is. He can do literally anything and has no restraint.
Anyways, great portrayal and I hope we get more.
Am I the only one who thinks that the last scene is the real beginning of the movie, and that's how he escaped the asylum in the first place?
I think its a masterpiece. I think a lot of the "errors " were actually delusions. Like the clown masks on everyone.
The Joker did go international once....he was officially appointed the US ambassador to Iran.
I don’t need batman in this at all, this was a very good standalone movie imo. Every scene contributed something that drives the plot, even though I didn’t sympathise with Arthur, I definitely understood why he did what he did. No second goes to waste on unnecessary filler to drag out the length of the film whatsoever. And than there’s the performance of Joaquin Phoenix, he historically laughed and cried of pure misery at the same time which I always thought was physically impossible, and he did it convincingly! All this in a movie with deep side characters, a strong message of what is wrong with society, and the example of how times can change with pop culture and new generations, but people never change.
It seemed pretty obvious to me that the entire movie was the hallucination of a mentally insane person in an asylum.