Great video. This one issue is the root of so many problems with the Harley big Twin. It really shows how little the MoCo cares about building the quality product they claim to be selling us.
My thoughts exactly! This will be my last Harley - premium price for made in China quality. Their prices keep going up but, as noted in this video, they are not correcting any of their build/design problems. I could have bought 4 or 5 metrics for the two Harley's I've had (and had to service). No more HD for me. 😕
I had a top end build on my m8.. Just the SS bolt on 107-124 kit. Ran it with stock bottom end for around 17k miles. I ride a ton .. 20-25k miles a year. Landed up going back in and doing a refresh and doing the bottom end .. SS crank. New bearings. Didn’t do the Timkin conversion but seem like that is more of a twin cam thing from the research I’ve done on it and a couple engine builders and my guy as well. Gives some piece of mind Bike is insanely smooth .. idk if that’s from that balanced bottom end or the different cam I went with Was pricey but IMO worth it
With a 3 jaw chuck you will always get a few thousand from the imperfections of the lathe I would think at least, but if you used a 4 jaw chuck that same shaft that shows .008 out one can make almost perfect, at least that’s what I’ve seen with my south bend precision tool lathe using a 3 jaw chuck verses a 4 jaw.
Another outstanding review & diagnostic troubleshooting point from someone who is ahead of the curve, & with engineering expertise. TKS again Kevin, I'll be seeing you soon! A thought Kevin.I have been working on! how about an outboard bearing support set into the outer primary cover to support the shaft.
Kevin, how do you feel about Harley building a solid crank, with side by side connecting rods with babbitt bearings, and 45 degree for that beloved sound. No more run outs, they will save money from warranty work. Porsche helped with the v rod, I'm shure Harley could handle it now. Great Channel!!!!!!!!
Hi! This new sprocket shaft is hollow. A cheap and weak construction. So of course after have been running the shaft is slightly bent. Thats my conclusion at least. Thanks a lot for a very informative program though Greetings Peder
After a rather expensive rebuild on my 14SGS last winter, (to include building the crank), I decided to sale my 08 FDXL. It didn’t need a rebuild, but I have a tendency to exceed the need. I just couldn’t see putting $7k in a $7k bike. Anyhow, I think I’ll use the money to complete my 48 F1 chassis. Just makes more cents, pun intended. That said, my SGS runs great, extremely smooth at about 65 and like glass at 90. It is amazing how a trued crank rides. I’m retired now with many kin folk in GA. I hope to stop by and see your operation at some point. I really appreciate your ability to explain complex concepts. Cheers
What are pros and cons to having your crankshaft “fixed” (true, Timken bearing, welded) vs purchasing a new one? Are there torque goals/riding styles that ultimately determine this? I have an ‘09 Softail that I’m considering modifying.
Kevin is there anyway that you could true-up that crank bearing shaft I'm thinking of ordering a man-of-war crank with compensator I'm trying to build the bottom end Bulletproof Auto 214 103
I currently own a twin cam 103 RG. It’s had excellent service, other than a voltage regulator replacement, it’s been a solid bike. But every time I watch one of your videos, I feel like I’m riding a ticking time 💣. No offense to you, I love your channel! But where is the QC at HD?!? With all the metric naysayers dogging HD’s as being outdated relics, one would think that HD would step up their game a bit on what seems to me are small improvements with huge payoffs. Especially with the price of a high-end touring model. Hopefully these are very limited issues and the overwhelming number of twincams and M8’s are going strong! Thanks!
I fabricated 3 wedges to load the jaws many many years ago. I use those to grind the jaws to center. I check on a regular basis with a 1" precision ground tool steel rod. If over .002, I regrind. This was done not too long ago. Regardless, this is a demonstration of a known issue even if this specific one was off a couple thou.
I really love your channel even though I have a hard time keeping up. I bought a 2016 triglide with 7000 miles on it I'm not to concerned about alot more power .but I could use some. My biggest concern is reliability. What would you recommend me do to it. The more I hear about them every thing on the bike needs to be replaced with aftermarket. I would really appreciate your input on this .thank you much
Kevin Love the content. Is this an issue that Darkhorse addresses when they build the man o war cranks or remanufacture a Stock crank. By the way, met the Darkhorse guys at Daytona and mentioned I saw them in your video. Nice guys. Little O PS. My Skunk Works hoodie looks just like yours after wearing it for a year straight.
Can't wait for those videos coming up 😍 I have a Trask Checkm8 installed on my 2018 FXBRS keen to learn more about it. Also keen to learn more about engine and oil temperatures, what is ideal temperature ranges and also seeing what this temperature is?! I've been looking for a gauge or ability to see this in the digital display as I know there is an Engine temp sensor but no way of seeing this without the tuning tool attached I think?
Wow Kevin, that is just insane to see such poor quality on a bike I paid close to 40k Truly sad come on Harley should be doing better that looked like a Chinese part off eBay!
Harley Davidson does an excellent job of protecting the identities of its parts suppliers, only choosing to do so when it is seen as a positive point of difference i.e. Brembo brakes. Whilst I doubt that part came from E bay, I wouldn't bet that it didn't come from China. I'm not saying that China aren't capable of quality manufacturing, they are, but they are well known for manufacturing items in proportional terms of quality and consistency to the price negotiated by the purchaser. In other words, if Harley Davidson are getting these parts from China, they're probably getting exactly what they're paying for and they're probably not paying much.
Hi Kevin-what should the ID of the sleeve be that is goes over the splined shaft of the sprocket shaft of the crankshaft (primary side) of a 2008 FLSTC to be able to measure the run out using a standard dial indicator? Many thanks Arnold
I fabricated 3 wedges to load the jaws, then grind the jaws to center. I check on a regular basis with a 1" precision ground tool steel rod. If over .002, I regrind. This was done not too long ago. Regardless, this is a demonstration of a known issue even if this specific one was off a couple thou.
Did harley make anything right? It would be nice to be able to buy the rest of the bike new, and just put your own engine in that has been built to actually last till its paid for lol
😂 so true, they totally suck. Sadly this had been the story of my life. 6 Harley Davidsons all of them over 100k and dumped thousands of dollars into fixing them as they broke
I would like to see a whole crank between centers.and also the halves between centers. And check the run out that way too many variables doing it the way shown.
Sounds like you need to make one to clear the air about it. I've seen videos of straightening hd cranks after they've been welded. That's about it. Actually zippers has a video showing a 110cvo that had 100k on it running out .020
My 2018 street glide special with 3000 miles on it started making noise and little vibration they changed out the compensator under warranty have 9000 miles on bike now still ok I did have a stage 3 kit installed on bike then had the problem afterwards
So... How does a spline get machined off centerline? If you had them .02 off center , this should have been obvious one side of the spline would be extremely shallow, visibly so. More likely is that the spine is cut first, then push off from lathe caused the bearing surface to be off, add to that the poor consistency of Chinese steel and cheap heat treating processes, then you a sh*t storm of bad parts. Harley has had problems with crank shafts since the 40's its really nothing new to machinist who pull things down that far.
No sir...I cant let ya think that. Many of these issues do not affect the majority of bikes produced. We are working to a level of precision thats near impossible to maintain in a production environment. My goal is not to scare you, but to inform you in the event you do have an issue.
@@KevinBaxter I would agree with you wholeheartedly if it wasn’t for the fact that in the last three years I’ve had nearly all of these issues happen with my personal bike. I’m 60 years old and money comes hard to me, I ride two-up for the majority of time I ride a stock 107 with a simple stage one kit. I ride between 27 and 3200 RPM and let me tell you this bike is very well taken care of as I take care of everything I own because it cost me dearly to purchase. I have watched nearly every one of your videos….. and I hold your expertise in a high regard. I do believe that a lot of these issues that are happening are unacceptable and should not be.. simply results of Poor workmanship/manufacturing. One thing I think we both believe is that these motorcycles could be a whole lot better than they are from factory.
So far, 20 thou! In all seriousness, I'd be guessing and only guessing that a component like that shouldn't be more than 2 thousandths out, 3 thousandths at the absolute worst. Any more than that and it should be rejected and freighted back to the manufacturer for replacement. It's terrible QC to see something like that installed in a machine of any nature let alone one that purports to be a "premium" quality brand with such a high price.
People ! The motor company is no doing us any favors spend big money and down the road spend more big money to fix what should have been done by hd there is no perfect motorcycles. I now ride a 2006 bmw GS go anywere mule and love it jus saying
Great video Kevin!! I can’t wait to see what your options are on the Trask CheckM8 transmission cover. I installed one over the summer on my stock 2020 Road Glide 107 because I kept getting a whiff of hot oil once and while since new. After I installed the new cover I haven’t smelled anymore oil. Definitely a quality piece for sure.
These problems can all be yours for 30 Grand
Great video. This one issue is the root of so many problems with the Harley big Twin. It really shows how little the MoCo cares about building the quality product they claim to be selling us.
I fixed all the twincam / m8 problems for about 5k. I bought a 96 Evo softail.
The more I watch this channel the more I want to get a Japanese bike.
My thoughts exactly! This will be my last Harley - premium price for made in China quality. Their prices keep going up but, as noted in this video, they are not correcting any of their build/design problems. I could have bought 4 or 5 metrics for the two Harley's I've had (and had to service). No more HD for me. 😕
Thanks for sharing your insight on HDs continued efforts to make customers experts in MoCo quality that gets exposed quickly at times.
I had a top end build on my m8..
Just the SS bolt on 107-124 kit.
Ran it with stock bottom end for around 17k miles.
I ride a ton .. 20-25k miles a year.
Landed up going back in and doing a refresh and doing the bottom end .. SS crank. New bearings. Didn’t do the Timkin conversion but seem like that is more of a twin cam thing from the research I’ve done on it and a couple engine builders and my guy as well.
Gives some piece of mind
Bike is insanely smooth .. idk if that’s from that balanced bottom end or the different cam I went with
Was pricey but IMO worth it
it just never ends
With a 3 jaw chuck you will always get a few thousand from the imperfections of the lathe I would think at least, but if you used a 4 jaw chuck that same shaft that shows .008 out one can make almost perfect, at least that’s what I’ve seen with my south bend precision tool lathe using a 3 jaw chuck verses a 4 jaw.
Good call, I was thinking there must be some play in the lathe. There's tolerances for all parts.
Exactly 💯 percent
The chuck jaws are adjustable for this reason. To adjust true
i would recommend making a trued jig matched to the chuck jaws
Another outstanding review & diagnostic troubleshooting point from someone who is ahead of the curve, & with engineering expertise. TKS again Kevin, I'll be seeing you soon! A thought Kevin.I have been working on! how about an outboard bearing support set into the outer primary cover to support the shaft.
Been watching your channel for a very long time and like how you spread your knowledge!
Kevin, how do you feel about Harley building a solid crank, with side by side connecting rods with babbitt bearings, and 45 degree for that beloved sound. No more run outs, they will save money from warranty work. Porsche helped with the v rod, I'm shure Harley could handle it now. Great Channel!!!!!!!!
Having trouble with notifications.thanks for all you do Kevin👍🍻🇦🇺
Hi! This new sprocket shaft is hollow. A cheap and weak construction. So of course after have been running the shaft is slightly bent. Thats my conclusion at least. Thanks a lot for a very informative program though
Greetings Peder
After a rather expensive rebuild on my 14SGS last winter, (to include building the crank), I decided to sale my 08 FDXL. It didn’t need a rebuild, but I have a tendency to exceed the need. I just couldn’t see putting $7k in a $7k bike. Anyhow, I think I’ll use the money to complete my 48 F1 chassis. Just makes more cents, pun intended.
That said, my SGS runs great, extremely smooth at about 65 and like glass at 90. It is amazing how a trued crank rides.
I’m retired now with many kin folk in GA. I hope to stop by and see your operation at some point. I really appreciate your ability to explain complex concepts. Cheers
Kevin, thanks for the video and info.
I enjoy the way you present your knowledge...a lot of cool.
Great job!!!
Appreciate the effort these videos take.
Thank you very much for the Motorcycle content video, Kevin!
What are pros and cons to having your crankshaft “fixed” (true, Timken bearing, welded) vs purchasing a new one? Are there torque goals/riding styles that ultimately determine this? I have an ‘09 Softail that I’m considering modifying.
Yea, I wanting to see more on crankcase venting.. and possible solutions that are least likely to void warranty.
Thanks Kevin awesome as always. 👍👍 🇨🇦
Kevin is there anyway that you could true-up that crank bearing shaft I'm thinking of ordering a man-of-war crank with compensator I'm trying to build the bottom end Bulletproof Auto 214 103
I currently own a twin cam 103 RG. It’s had excellent service, other than a voltage regulator replacement, it’s been a solid bike. But every time I watch one of your videos, I feel like I’m riding a ticking time 💣. No offense to you, I love your channel! But where is the QC at HD?!? With all the metric naysayers dogging HD’s as being outdated relics, one would think that HD would step up their game a bit on what seems to me are small improvements with huge payoffs. Especially with the price of a high-end touring model. Hopefully these are very limited issues and the overwhelming number of twincams and M8’s are going strong! Thanks!
Damn I'm going to have to set up the laptop next to the pan head so I can catch up on this stuff wile I work on her this winter.
A 3 jaw chuck is rarely less than 3 thousands out. Check a drill steel to test for runout first.
I fabricated 3 wedges to load the jaws many many years ago. I use those to grind the jaws to center. I check on a regular basis with a 1" precision ground tool steel rod. If over .002, I regrind. This was done not too long ago. Regardless, this is a demonstration of a known issue even if this specific one was off a couple thou.
Thank you Kevin, sounds like a lot of good information and I'll be watching 👍
I really love your channel even though I have a hard time keeping up. I bought a 2016 triglide with 7000 miles on it
I'm not to concerned about alot more power .but I could use some. My biggest concern is reliability. What would you recommend me do to it. The more I hear about them every thing on the bike needs to be replaced with aftermarket. I would really appreciate your input on this .thank you much
So Glad I have an Evo!!
Eventually I plan on you bullitt proofing my 107,. 2020 R.K. only 2000 miles I mostly ride my 120" evo.
Kevin
Love the content.
Is this an issue that Darkhorse addresses when they build the man o war cranks or remanufacture a Stock crank.
By the way, met the Darkhorse guys at Daytona and mentioned I saw them in your video. Nice guys.
Little O
PS. My Skunk Works hoodie looks just like yours after wearing it for a year straight.
Can't wait for those videos coming up 😍 I have a Trask Checkm8 installed on my 2018 FXBRS keen to learn more about it. Also keen to learn more about engine and oil temperatures, what is ideal temperature ranges and also seeing what this temperature is?! I've been looking for a gauge or ability to see this in the digital display as I know there is an Engine temp sensor but no way of seeing this without the tuning tool attached I think?
Marry Christmas
Wow Kevin, that is just insane to see such poor quality on a bike I paid close to 40k Truly sad come on Harley should be doing better that looked like a Chinese part off eBay!
Yes thats HD, have owned a kawasaki GPz 900 ten years and a Ducati 2 valve, 8 years, zero problems.
Harley Davidson does an excellent job of protecting the identities of its parts suppliers, only choosing to do so when it is seen as a positive point of difference i.e. Brembo brakes.
Whilst I doubt that part came from E bay, I wouldn't bet that it didn't come from China. I'm not saying that China aren't capable of quality manufacturing, they are, but they are well known for manufacturing items in proportional terms of quality and consistency to the price negotiated by the purchaser. In other words, if Harley Davidson are getting these parts from China, they're probably getting exactly what they're paying for and they're probably not paying much.
Great job on the information as usal
So Much knowledge. Wow.
Ready, set, go.
Hi Kevin-what should the ID of the sleeve be that is goes over the splined shaft of the sprocket shaft of the crankshaft (primary side) of a 2008 FLSTC to be able to measure the run out using a standard dial indicator? Many thanks Arnold
You know your stuff, I worry more when I see the videos.Lol . Any advice on rodent's? LoL keep them coming please.
Your using a 3 jaw chuck, how do you know that chuck is correct?? Have you centered that chuck? Most of those 3 jaws are off and people don't know it.
I fabricated 3 wedges to load the jaws, then grind the jaws to center. I check on a regular basis with a 1" precision ground tool steel rod. If over .002, I regrind. This was done not too long ago. Regardless, this is a demonstration of a known issue even if this specific one was off a couple thou.
You can always zero the three jaw Chuck and be fine or just machine a set of soft jaws and then you are zeroed hope this helps you some. MLLH&R
Can i bring my bike to have this done?
Hmmm, maybe that .008" of shaft runout being "acceptable" needs to be looked at a little bit closer. LOL
It's 2021.... HD has no excuse for that kind of poor quality.
Great video and info as always.
Interesting video thanks for sharing
Did harley make anything right?
It would be nice to be able to buy the rest of the bike new, and just put your own engine in that has been built to actually last till its paid for lol
😂 so true, they totally suck. Sadly this had been the story of my life. 6 Harley Davidsons all of them over 100k and dumped thousands of dollars into fixing them as they broke
Hmmm, a Harley glider. Now there is an idea!
I always use a 4 jaw chuck to true it precisely.
I would like to see a whole crank between centers.and also the halves between centers. And check the run out that way too many variables doing it the way
shown.
But I'm sure this isn't how you personally check anything it was just a demonstration.
Correct...people have heard me and others speak of this issue for years but I have never seen a video that demonstrated even a simulation of it.
Sounds like you need to make one to clear the air about it. I've seen videos of straightening hd cranks after they've been welded. That's about it. Actually zippers has a video showing a 110cvo that had 100k on it running out .020
My 2018 M8 Street Bob developed a vibration only in 4th gear between 2000-2700 rpm. What could be the reason?
My 2018 street glide special with 3000 miles on it started making noise and little vibration they changed out the compensator under warranty have 9000 miles on bike now still ok I did have a stage 3 kit installed on bike then had the problem afterwards
So if I get the crankshaft done (Trued) by Dark Horse, will it solve the issue you are referring to?
Get an evo or early twin cam, you wouldn't get any issues with crankshaft
Does this cover a 2000 twincam? The early models?
So here's the million dollar question ; which is wiser, rebuild one's 103, or just replace with a S&S 124?
I wander how much of this machining is done in China.
Just checked my bike just as I thought to much runout
when i hit 50 i started having problems w/my crankshaft run-out so i picked up the blue pill, traded-in my wife for a 32 yr old...problems solved!
So... How does a spline get machined off centerline? If you had them .02 off center , this should have been obvious one side of the spline would be extremely shallow, visibly so. More likely is that the spine is cut first, then push off from lathe caused the bearing surface to be off, add to that the poor consistency of Chinese steel and cheap heat treating processes, then you a sh*t storm of bad parts.
Harley has had problems with crank shafts since the 40's its really nothing new to machinist who pull things down that far.
Let’s just call a spade a spade. This new Harley I bought two years ago is a real pile of crap.
No sir...I cant let ya think that. Many of these issues do not affect the majority of bikes produced. We are working to a level of precision thats near impossible to maintain in a production environment. My goal is not to scare you, but to inform you in the event you do have an issue.
Not all motors are like this,,if you have a problem, dig in, fix it ,enjoy the ride!😄
@@KevinBaxter I would agree with you wholeheartedly if it wasn’t for the fact that in the last three years I’ve had nearly all of these issues happen with my personal bike. I’m 60 years old and money comes hard to me, I ride two-up for the majority of time I ride a stock 107 with a simple stage one kit. I ride between 27 and 3200 RPM and let me tell you this bike is very well taken care of as I take care of everything I own because it cost me dearly to purchase. I have watched nearly every one of your videos….. and I hold your expertise in a high regard. I do believe that a lot of these issues that are happening are unacceptable and should not be.. simply results of Poor workmanship/manufacturing. One thing I think we both believe is that these motorcycles could be a whole lot better than they are from factory.
@@KevinBaxter but like what issues would one see? How does one know if you do not wrench?
8 thousand seams like a lot let alone 20 thousand. What is the maximum allowable amount from the factory?
So far, 20 thou! In all seriousness, I'd be guessing and only guessing that a component like that shouldn't be more than 2 thousandths out, 3 thousandths at the absolute worst. Any more than that and it should be rejected and freighted back to the manufacturer for replacement. It's terrible QC to see something like that installed in a machine of any nature let alone one that purports to be a "premium" quality brand with such a high price.
Monday and Friday machining and assembly all week?!!?? Smh!
Its a shame Harley cant build a engine every Harley i have had had vibration problems and they were softails
People ! The motor company is no doing us any favors spend big money and down the road spend more big money to fix what should have been done by hd there is no perfect motorcycles. I now ride a 2006 bmw GS go anywere mule and love it jus saying
Just purchase a new crank when upgrading! Problem solved!
Great video Kevin!! I can’t wait to see what your options are on the Trask CheckM8 transmission cover. I installed one over the summer on my stock 2020 Road Glide 107 because I kept getting a whiff of hot oil once and while since new. After I installed the new cover I haven’t smelled anymore oil. Definitely a quality piece for sure.
Cant wait
What can I say... Only EVO and Yamaha Road Star....
RIP HD 1903-1999
I'd bet my junks floating around here after hundred thirty four thousand miles, starts up hauling mail...
Honda is laughing their balls off.
As usual great video but lmao....those harley "tolerances" are worse than cheap chinese bikes!!!
Dermatologist ... cyst removed... in and out easy peasy....
Mook
Just buy a Indian. Lol
This kind of stuff along with the wokeness of Harley makes me want to sell my bike and get an indian.