Apologetics Students Call in for Extra Credit | Josh and Jax - Colorado | Atheist Experience 22.09
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มี.ค. 2018
- The Atheist Experience episode 22.09 for March 11, 2018, with Matt Dillahunty and Jamie.
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I really feel sorry for these kids. This shows the damage religion does.
@@joakkley9659 Then demonstrate that God exists. We'll all be waiting.
Jesus lived on this earth and when he was done with his destiny to die for our sins 500 people saw him assend into heaven!!!
Jesus perdicted man would DENY him!!!!
Other than your fake evolution lie, prove Jesus is not real!!!!
Prove to the Christian. Scientists. that have proved God created. the universe. Jesus is not real!!!!
These kids learned more on this day than they did the entire school year of apologetics classes.
I cant help but appreciate that their teacher encourages them to seek ideological disagreement.
You can do that by looking at a rock fall
@@shogunguy I can't help but think he must be an atheist if he's actively advocating for his students to have their philosophy challenged in this way.
I'm just wondering how the teacher will explain to these guys that Matt used tricks to confuse them to the point where they could only concede.
No wonder this gets them an A
"You kinda got us in a corner we arent getting out of".
There is hope for them. Most religious people can not recognize that
They were brainwashed at a young age but JUST young enough still to be convinced in the other direction. It’s so rare for someone in their late 20’s or 30’s to be a devout Christian or Catholic, and then suddenly pull away and become an atheist as a full grown adult. Hope more kids listen to this and learn to challenge what people say, instead of taking the words of a bunch of random dudes as dogma
I was pushing darwinism at 6 now I believe in the divinity of Jesus. Guess I brainwashed myself or had to many concussions.
@@mrfake675 perhaps a bit of both
@WhatTheHell AmIDoingWithMyLife I don't think the sciences and God are mutually exclusive. The Bible tries to help humans transcend the physical matrix and keep our worst impulses at bay. Science is concerned with explaining the mechanics of the physical matrix. Both are valuable. Science that benefits all of man kind and leads to harmony within and without is invaluable. A balanced ecosystem is heavenly. Unfortunately science without a concern for morals and done by men blinded by ego and pride will probably bring more disharmony to mankind. Cough Mark Zuckerberg cough processed food etc. Religion guided by ego and pride will also bring much disharmony. Unfortunately many Christians are guided by ego, pride and refined sugar.
@WhatTheHell AmIDoingWithMyLife hopefull lots of scientists have a purpose to create a better life for people and the planet. Happy new year
These students definitely earned that "A". And I give respect to that teacher for encouraging them to converse outside their bubble.
Here's hoping they realized after this call that their teacher is teaching them a bunch of hogwash
If the teacher has the guts to call in also, I could appreciate it. Now he's just a coward.
@@peteralleyman1388 idk making them call is cool imo
@@k0lpA it’s really feeling like an inside job. I’m not confident the teacher is actually that Christian he’s trying to undo their thinking.😂
@@iamsalaya lol could be. But a lot of christians really think their faith will hold up to scrutiny, anyhow it's a good thing in my opinion, it means he cares about the truth I guess
I think their teacher is a secret atheist, and this assignment went exactly as planned.
I’m glad the one kid admitted twice to being backed into a corner they can’t get out of, and neither of them got angry or over defensive. I hope they look back at this and think critically about their positions.
Agree.
Surprised the teacher doesn't get fired for leading lambs to the slaughter like this lmao
Their teacher must laughing his ass off while watching this shit
I really hope, for the sake of the teacher, that the assignment was not specific to this show.
One hell of a plot twist but okay
I was one of these kids. There’s hope for them.
Yea want to know too
He wasn't one of those specific kids, he's just saying he was once in their shoes and got free of that life. _"There's hope for them"_ implies that.
Also, their names were Josh and Jax. ✌️
I hope they're able to get away from that life, too; indoctrination is such an unfortunate thing.
I was an atheist kid. Fortunately, God's plan saved me from remaining as an Eternity Trasher.
CauseAndEffect Fake ass
@@candeffect What plan is that, exactly?
You can see these callers thinking to themselves "This worked so much better when I practiced in front of the mirror"
These guys are probably a couple of the most honest callers this show has had.. good for them. Hope they're doing better these days...
Full respect to those kids. They admitted when they were backed into a corner.
That's not the first step to reject the Bible, it's like the tenth step.
First step: actually read the hot garbsge that is the bible
@@EustaBAracer Couldn't be more true. I think the only thing that makes more atheists is reading the Bible, cover to cover with an open mind and really asking "What the hell am I reading". As an atheist I'm trying to read the whole bible at the moment, I'm in Genesis chapter 10 and I find it so unfathomably ridiculous that anyone could take this as a literal account of the universe
@@EustaBAracer There are two possibilities:
A) You forgot how boring and difficult to understand liturgy from the sixteenth/second+ century, or similar/or older, can be. Seems like you didn't read that shit either?!:)
B) You forgot how you were as a child. Or how other children are today. Everyone of them is very excited to read this boring ham. LoL
C) THEY ARE INDOCTRINATED BY THEIR LOVED ONES AND ABUSING ONES[Padre, etc.] (This point, the third, is secret, so I am very cautious...)
What I mean is that it is not that easy. Oh and nonetheless, I agree with you. The few who make it this way out of "jail", despite indoctrination and compulsions are the most important in the fight against the dogmatists.
more to B): As a six year old, do you have the mental abilities to withstand the indoctrination? Most: No! What happens if you speak up? We all know: Punishment and social shaming in front of your mates. The damage that is done if the people are old enough to develop a consciousness and the hole, were critical thinking should be is immense. I think the net of lies and self-lies is so tight at the point when they are older, that reading the Bible will do nothing for most theists.
Respect to those who got out of it.
I have two thoughts on this. First, I hope they watch and analyze this point by point in class, and second, I would love to see their teacher call in.
Hahahaha, you said 'anal' (ok, I'll show myself out)
I hate the thought of that. They're just going to blame the kid and pick apart all his "Mistakes", without ever considering that they are wrong about any of it.
yeah, I think rewatching this and taking some time to really think about each point could do a lot of good
..or for them to ring back in 20 years and see how real life works for them...."what one of your children is gay..." "How did you deal with that? Oh stoned to death because God commands us to..." Leviticus 20:13
Withab BJ You’re other child desided to wear polyester, what happened then?
Oh I killed him for not keeping the Lords decrees in Leviticus 19:19.
These kids tried taking on a lv9999 atheist boss without clearing the first story chapter.
hitchens is the final boss
@@jonathannorton6375anyone that has read and understood the Bible in its entirety, is equivalent to the final boss for these guys
@@josephmother2659lol
How can someone not addicted to video games understand just what the hell you're trying to say?
@@jamesarnette1394how does enjoying and knowing basic things about video games mean you’re addicted to video games ?? Video games are a totally healthy outlet and entertainment activity.
These kids were more brave and honest than most adults that call the show
I do not mind being stumped by an atheist, but atheists hate to be stumped. The reason why I do not mind being stumped is that I love the truth. Yet, for an atheist to admit that he is wrong on a point has some serious ramifications. That is, if he (or she) is wrong about one thing, then they could be wrong about their atheism! That is why I have admitted to not having an answer many times (I have been writing these posts since the 90s!). Yet, only two atheists, in over ten thousand, have ever admitted being wrong on any point!
One of those was famous YT atheist, AronRa. I asked him if he was ever wrong about anything. He told me, "Not on the important things." I pressed him quite a bit, but he finally admitted he had been wrong on an important life issue when he was younger.
Yet, imagine being wrong about Jesus Christ? Imagine facing God and He exposes all your secrets: every lie, every theft, every wicked thought, and every treason against God. Can you afford to be wrong about that?
Heaven is real, but so is hell! Hell is the last stop on the train of human depravity. If you wind up there, you will be tortured without end. Can you fault God for that? It is you who has made your own rules to life: welcome to hell, where the torturer and sadist are faithful to their creed! Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshiloh you're full of sh!+
@@kenshiloh You should practice what you're preaching.
Be intellectually honest and admit you don't know the truth just like everyone else.
@@pocketdust2450 Of course I do not know the whole truth; only God knows that! Yet, I know Christ. In 46 years, I have not had even one second of doubt that I know the Lord and am bound for heaven - not even for a second! That is because I am continous fellowship with Christ, as described in the Bible. My faith is right out of the Bible, as I am 'seated in the heavenlies with Christ.' Though I go through difficult times, I am so blessed. I dwell in the presence of Almighty God.
There are many things that I do not know. Yet, I know one day that you will stand before God and give an account of your life. Every dark secret will come to light. Yet, if you are born again, filled with the Holy Spirit, in fellowship with God through the Cross, then you will be innocent on all charges. Heaven or hell: I do know you will be in either one or the other. I write these posts that people may know Christ. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshiloh You do not know the truth so don't speak as if you did, I don't need to read past the first 6 words.
$10 says they're athiests by now in 2019.
Doubling.
They've been indoctrinated so I wouldn't bet that if I were you. You might be right but it takes time to change your viewpoint when you were told something since birth.
@@lexgold6175 Not all investments produce revenue.
@@LukeVilent Good ones do
I hope so
The teacher deserves a loud praise for, knowingly or not, making his students go question their religious dogmas.
Brave amateur, he did his part...
After being a Christian for most of my life I watched one of your debates a couple years ago. Journeyed from Pentecostal to Calvinist and I kinda rolled my eyes at you. However, it sparked a thought in my mind and I decided to look at what I believed in a skeptical fashion. After a couple years worth of research and battling facts such as evolution and the fact that I couldn’t prove god I realized something. I saw it was all a sham and mind control. I realized there was no proof of a god that I was afraid of and had his thumb on me. At 44 I have after much thought become atheist and no longer afraid if the @flying spaghetti monster”.
Welcome to dark side, we have cookies.
Well done,dude!👏🤝
Welcome to reality.
Proud of you. I had the great benefit of having been raised after age 6 or so free of a formal church. A Christian family, but no formalized religious indoctrination. It was expected of me to read my Bible, and I did. If more people studied theology, there would be far more atheists. I loved my parents dearly, of course. Even more so because they allowed me the freedom to arrive at my own conclusions.
Welcome to the side of logic and common sense. I’m glad you made it as I know the journey can be arduous. It is certainly hard to shake off that which has been pounded into you since before you can remember. You are Early enough into this that you may still be experiencing guilt for having left your faith. Rest assured that is very normal and Dissipates with time as you enjoy living in reality.
If you are looking for more information. The freedom from religion foundation is a very good place to start.
@Daniel Reierson If only most people could muster the courage to do that,the world would truly be a better place.
"The priests used to say that faith can move mountains, and nobody believed them. Today the scientists say that they can level mountains, and nobody doubts them."
Joseph Campbell
I'm not sure I understand what this quote is trying to say. Is it alluding to the destructive power science has birthed, such as the atomic bomb, which cannot be denied -- perhaps in contrast to the promises of religion, which have yet to prove anything?
To that extent I suppose it makes sense, but I don't agree with the "priests used to say" and "nobody believed them bit. Priests have never *stopped* saying it, and many many people *do* still believe them. Also, there are certainly idiots who deny science, but that's a whole other can of worms.
Funny enough, it was taking an apologetics course at my christian high school that helped me become an atheist : )
I had, not the same, but similar experience. Ironically the start of my movement towards atheism was discussing and analyzing the bible in a youth group.
So basically the apologetics courses attempt to teach people to think certain things, but as a side effect open up their mind, sometimes too well.
I took a class called “The Bible as History” and that fucked my shit up as someone who didn’t think the Bible had any contradictions etc. I thought the class was about how history lined up with the Bible, but it was a history of how the Bible was written, and the people spoken about within. When the flaws started getting pointed out over and over and over I realized there was no way this was a reliable source and then I began to doubt everything since if I can’t trust the Bible then what foundation is left, and then I kept going from there. That was 16 years ago☺️
Do you now describe yourself as an agnostic atheist?
Seminary courses helped me wake up.
This guy was so extremely close to accidentally getting Matt's point
He probably will when he goes to sleep that day, because you sometimes think things over while sleeping or over a couple of days. Oh wait, the video is already a year in the past, now I want to know his current status!
@castroy64 You're incorrect.
1. Atheism is not a belief system. It's not faith, it's the lack of faith.
2. Atheism is not a religion, and it doesn't encompass fanaticism. Some atheists are crazy, some aren't, just like how some Christians are crazy, and some aren't. Although, all of them do believe in the invisible Semitic sky god.
And you're just being dishonest if you claim that atheism does more damage than religions. Oh my. From the Crusades to justifying slavery, to causing pointless wars, religion has been dangerous.
@castroy64 Ok, your claims are that atheism inherently habors:
1. Secularism. Of course. That's like pointing out that religion has faith.
2. "Scientism." What does that even mean? Wikipedia says "Scientism is the promotion of science as the best or only objective means by which society should determine normative and epistemological values."
That is not true of all atheists. I do believe that science should run things, personally.
3. Hatred of "Judeo-Christianity".
Hatred of any religion isn't inherent to atheism. You can be an atheist and not even know that religions exist. You might as well stop playing word games. "Atheist" is a simple word. A+theist. Not a theist. Most atheists in America probably were Christian and debate against Christianity. Judeo-Christianity isn't even a thing, by the way. Judaism and Christianity share a set of values, sure, but what is "Judeo-Christianity" itself? Both religions? Only Christianity?
@castroy64 I didn't prove your point. You posted a incorrect claim, so I gave the facts. You know you've lost an argument when you turn to insults with no substance. Atheism is the lack of faith by definition.
@castroy64 Please read my previous posts, actually. Literally, atheism has nothing *inherently* to do with hatred of religion or fanaticism. Is there any evidence for your claim? At all?
"You guys kinda got us in a corner we can't get out of." Wow... that is a HUGE admission from an apologist! They really deserve credit for conceding defeat, regardless of whether they were convinced by Matt and Jamie's arguments. It takes massive stones to admit that you're defeated.
For apologists, they lose points for admitting that the corner exists.
@@JFrazer4303 That depends on what you mean by corner ;)
They’re not apologists, they’re students. They’re inexperienced and don’t really know what they’re talking about. An actual adult Christian apologist would probably never make that admission.
I do remember being of the age of the caller. Truth really mattered to me, even though I hadn't learned that many things I believed were false. I was already studying physics and logic, the implications just hadn't sunk in yet. Maybe when I'm hating Christians, which I do on an hourly basis, I should remember there's people in Christianity who do care about doing the right thing, even at cost. Hope these young people benefitted.
Actually, as a Christian, I have admitted to being stumped many times. In fact, I spent 2 weeks redoing my website because an atheist found a flaw in my thinking. As a Christian, I, "do not lean on my own understanding," but I trust the Lord with all of my heart. That is because my faith is not simply intellectual, but I know Christ. God made us for friendship with Him. If you reject Christ's offer of friendship (given through this post), then you won't know Him. You have until your last breath to decide. If you die without meeting Christ, neither will you know Him in eternity. Since God is love, eternity without love is hell - by its very definition! Jesus said that there are torturers there. Is that hard to believe? Just imagine this world continuing in the afterlife and all the sadistic psychos that have gone before us. The eagerly await your arrival in hell!
Laugh off the warnings of Christ to your own peril! You will be called into account for every lie, every theft, and every treason against God. Yet, Christ loves you. He desires your friendship. If you reject Him, He won't pull you to heaven by your ears. He died on a Cross so that the blood of Christ can cleanse you of sin. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
"You got us in a corner we arent getting out of." the most honest thing I've heard a theist say in a while.
something tells me they were forced to go to christian school
"Because faith! I mean, because the Bible! I mean, because faith."
Lol.
"I have faith because the bible"
"The bible has been proven wrong"
"It's not because of faith"
"But faith is not real"
"No it is cause the bible says"
Faith is defined as the ability to believe in something without any proof behind it.
When I say that, most Christians nod and agree.
Than I go on to define gullibility as the ability to believe in something without any proof of it.
And when I say that, most Christians also nod and agree.
Than I point out that faith and gullibility appear to have the same identical definition. That is when you get to watch Christian heads explode.
@@pepelapiu2004 I am okay with Christians who believe without any proof, the troublesome Christians are those who believe in spite of proof.
@@NetAndyCz They believe in spite of proof? Proof of what?
Because last time I checked, there can not be proof that God doesn't exist. Can't prove a negative. Just like I can't prove that Santa doesn't exist.
@@pepelapiu2004 Proof the Earth is globe, the Earth is billions of years old.... I have never said anything about believing in God.
"the only way for me to prove it to you is for you to believe me"....
@John Daedalusfor real? I see cookies exploding all the time
Reminds me of a street epistemology episode where a Christian said that the only way to know God exists is to obey him first.
@John Daedalus Ya know, that's a good question. I just love this picture of Dr Phil
Literally the intro class to a con.
I can't understand why it's even an issue what two consenting adults do together, no matter what sex they are.
Me neither 🤦🏻
Me neither
Agreed.
murder for example
Are you telling me that using an umbrella isn't a blasphemy? Religion can redefine ANYTHING as "sinful."
Wait really?
The only thing Jesus said about slavery was "obey your masters, even the cruel ones"?
Well that explains a lot actually.
Jesus:
Homosexuality? 🦗
Slavery? "This is How to Be a Good Slave & Slave Owner"
Christians: Jesus is dope.
Me: I dunno... 🤷😒
This is so frightening. These kids have been made into tools.
That's religion for you
john moulton hey man I go to a private Christian school and have to sit through apologetic classes and not say I really believe because my family will probably disown me and I’ll get kicked out of school and everyone will hate me. I can never show what I really believe or be critical or skeptical about anything. My parents literally want to disown me because I’m an evolutionist but they think evolution and Christianity can coexist. Idk what tf to do. I’m in high school and backed into a corner
Leighton Davis I’m in my twenties, and when I told my parents I was no longer a Christian it took a long time, and each step of the way things got more hostile. Things have balanced out and are civil now, but I had to move out for that to happen. I’m so sorry you’re trapped at this school, just do your best to critically think about EVERYTHING they teach. Especially things that are taught as absolutes (like good vs. evil). Keep friends who don’t all have the same opinion. I grew up in an exclusively Christian community. And they were all young earth creationists. I hope you’re okay, just know there is a world full of people and many are sharing your experience. You’re not alone and you are wonderful the way you are. You don’t need fixing/forgiveness for being born or for freely thinking. Wishing you the best Leighton.
Leighton Davis
Ask yourself, if this is the "loving way" always preached by the religious nuts how they treat you ? Surely not. If your ṕarents would be caring, it would make sense to just talk to them. Any reasonable parent would understand this. Unfortunately are religious fanatics usually not of it this kind (at least that's what i get from your "they'll disown-me fear"). My personal advice: you financially currently depend on your parents, so don't alienate them, so tell them just what they want to hear. High school doesn't last forever. Make sure to get into proper scientific (=non-religious) college thereafter, ideally very very far away from home. Once you are out, the spook ends and you'll (probably for the first time) be among thinking and not brainwashed people that will accept reason and rationality for what it is: something reasonable and thus good. Once your future is somewhat secured by a good education, you are free to live your life as you deem fit, and don't have to bow anymore t anybodies mental illness (well except your Boss').
Usually I'd advise to you give your parents and everyone around you a piece of your mind, what idiots they truly are and what you think of them, but in your situation, this might have financial repercussions, endangering your further education, so I wouldn't advice it. If your parents care more about their bronze-age sky wizard than about their own son, then lying to them to protect yourself is perfectly ethical.
@@SandioCompany I really feel for you and for most Americans in your position, I'm from Belgium and at the age of twelve about a year after doing communion I told my family that I found it all a bit crazy and lucky for me the rest of my family eventually followed suit. I hope from the bottom of my heart that you can find a way out without losing anyone. I found this channel and am baffled that it is such a problem to come out as a non believer for people in America.
Wow the kids are smart enough to know when they have been checkmated. Good for them..These young men show promise.
Something an adult would not admit
Don't worry, their parents will fix them when they get home.
If they have doubts, they'll talk with their elders. If the elders are clever salemen, they'll carefully debunk all that Matt and Jamie said to them using all the tools at their disposal including time, presence, and emotional appeals. They might break free, but their actual chances are not really good. At least, not as long as they are in their current environment.
@@valkyriefrost5301 once the existence of internal contradictions is brought to attention and accepted, it is very difficult to undo the process.
@@turboturtle2002 - it can be difficult, but it is not impossible. There is always hope, but getting pass the many environmental pressures that can be presented by friends, family, and clergy can be daunting. Even Matt D was caught up in that dogma for 25 years.
This video, this channel. I feel like an enormous weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I've been walking around for years and years in this fog of hopelessness thinking that theres nobody else out there than can connect with me intellectually on this topic. I've been drowning in a sea of religious ideologues who abandon facts in favor of faith and feelings. To hear my own argument come from someone elses lips. I cant express what a relief it is.
That's great! I'm happy for you!
I hope you have managed to totally free yourself from the disgusting shackles of religion.
Congrats man!! Fear isn’t a way of living. Understanding reality as it is and unfortunately not always knowing everything is LIVING. 😁
Great comment, and you're not alone. I began questioning in 1988, and I was alone. These shows are a wonderful eye on rationality, reality and a genuine community. 👏
You were/are honest with yourself.
Indoctrinating children using fear is child abuse.
Teach your children how to think, not what to think.💙
If you have to hoodwink your children to ensure that they confirm their faith when they are adults, your faith ought to go extinct.
Exactly! Love this comment.
Absolute morals lead to slavery, flying airplanes into skyscrapers and loving your neighbour. Unless he is homosexual of course.
This discussion hurt. Why isn't it forbidden to talk to children about religion until the age of being allowed to drink alcohol?
bc then the legal age of alcohol would either go down or be exterminated
Because no one likes to admit the damage religion does to people’s minds, and of religious people weren’t allowed to indoctrinate young people then the religion would die out in just a few generations - “get ‘em while they’re young” is the only way to infect most minds, as most adults know more and are far less likely to fall for obvious bullshit
Because santa.
We definitely shouldn't forbid teaching religion to children; what we should do is teach kids about religion in an unbiased and critical way. And not just christianity, we need to have classes that go over the history, teachings, and arguments for and against all of the major world religions- and then provide the kids with the critical thinking tools to be able to come to sound, logical conclusions about the legitimacy of those religious claims on their own.
@@baronfromthebaronies7628 I think you have that in the wrong order. First we need to teach kids critical thinking. Then we can show them the hocus pocus that's holding the world back.
"oh crap ! they got me, but i'm not allowed to be wrong, so I better not admit it so that I can still hold my beliefs, even when challenged by pure logic"
@Dj Luminol It's because the moment you are WRONG people will verbally bash your head in, especially atheists because they are so certain about their religion.
@Dj Luminol Well yeah. Calling atheism a religion is a bit radical. But for me it feels like atheists don't leave it with only a declaration about God or no God.
@Dj Luminol Does religion do that?
@Dj Luminol to prefer following a teaching is different from forcing you to not have an opinion. I think american Christians are way more radical though. So much irrational stupidity from what I have seen so far.
@Astaroth Very clear.
this teacher did these students the biggest favor and themselves the biggest disservice
Little did the apolagetics teacher know that they set two men on the path to athiesm when they encouraged them to call in
Plot twist: the teacher gave them this assignment because he or she is a staunch atheist who has tenure while at a religious school.
@@EustaBAracer dun dun duuuunnnn
Pretty sure the teacher was a closeted atheist.
Students calling for extra credit end up quiting Christian school😂
I feel sad for Jax and Josh, trying so hard to defend everything they've been taught, but they're the smartest Christians I've seen on multiple channels.
Brave kids and well handled by Matt and Jamie, to treat them good as persons but not giving them an inch on their beliefs despite their young age.
Matt has explained in the past that he speaks to kids the same way that he speaks to adults. I think it's a good habit to get into, kids are smarter than we give them credit for and they appreciate not being condescended to.
These two young people just took their first steps towards realizing what actual critical thought is. This video should be played in every school.
"The guy in the corner of the room can actually be proven to exist"
Oh shiit
Alex not a comment to read at night in bed lol
Yes, here you go:
P=NP
1=0
Proof of equal quality as the Bible, right here.
Matt Dillahunty and Leonardo Di Caprio destroy a couple of theists in debate.
I LOLed hard😆😆
More like Leonardo Do Fatrio
It's Jack. Leonardo is his actor name;)
I thought Leonardo had better fashion sense. But that jacket . . .
LMAO 😂🤣 best comment 👍
Imagine dedicating an entire class on arguing the existence of something stupid you can't prove instead of something useful in life.
The Star Wars extended universe is really logically consistent and has way more than 40 authors. So why don't you believe in The Force?
When the SW EU is the bible, then the sequel movies are like an obscure apocryphal gospel that is only accepted by some chaldeo-miaphysite sect which only exists in three mountain villages in eastern Aserbaidschan.
@@christophzeit6282 that's a fantastic way to put it
@@christophzeit6282 And they still make more cohesive sense than the gospels!
I know one group of people who believe in The Force.
Rapists.
I wouldn't say it is completely logically consistent, but those inconsistent writers are heretics anyways.
If you are not capable of knowing what is moral without god,
how can you determine weather your god is moral?
Good question.
Well, quite.
Without God what is morality? A sosiety that believes that homosexuality is wrong and that homosexuals should be put to death is no less justified than a societee who believes that homosexuality is perfectly fine. If you posit that 1 is greater than the other then you are usurping some sort of moral superiority. If you notice their use of the word psychopath it indicates that they disagree with the actions of the psychopath, under what justification? They're simply views and opinions of 2 different people just because one is in the minority doesn't make him wrong and doesn't make the majority right.
Also, if you NEED god to be moral then there's a problem with you.
Because God says so, duh.
I really like how you guys are patient with these two kids and really taking your time getting them to think.
Gotta make them earn that A
Maybe the teacher should call in. If he's gonna send his students into that front, he should be able brave it himself.
Damn these dudes got owned I remember when I used to be a Christan and I had all the same bad arguments and defended it vigorously but one day in a FB group someone posted Matts videos and I watched them and at first I was angry but the more I listened I could never find a video where apologetics won a debate and it became clear everything I was taught to believe may not be true and my knowledge of the bible was way less than I thought. I could quote scripture but had no idea how that scripture came to be or why it should be authoritative. After long reflection and much reaserch I was finally free of my religious beliefs. Thanks Matt🤙🏽
Howzit going was wondering if you were truly born again? Did you get baptized and go to a Christian fellowship ?
@@DeanMartinson-ci3lk I was raised in the church baptized 3 times and was an ordained minister who had gone to bible college
@@Lazaven what happened what made you change your mind on Christ?
@@DeanMartinson-ci3lk did you read what I wrote in my original post? In case you didn't I'll explain it again. When I was introduced to AXP it sent me down the rabbit hole to challenge and research my belief system. Through that research I discovered some troubling information that contradicts what I was taught if I wanted to remain a rational human that was intellectually honest I had to let go of my belief system because I adopted Christianity on bad evidence and bald assertions for which there is no demonstrable evidence
@@Lazaven you know what’s strange all the years of church and Bible studies, only in recent times I found we were wrong about many passages in the Bible, check out the ( WHUTT) videos on this channel it’s short and to the point! You will like and believe what it says. 🙏🏻✝️❤️
The kid seems smart he’s just brainwashed to use the same circular argument even when he knows he’s wrong.
Yeah, it is hard when you are trained hard not to question some "facts" such as there is the God and it is the God of the church you are in and their interpretation of Bible is (mostly) correct. It is very hard to realize that as a theist though. You just cannot think outside of theism. You are trained not to. The world without God does not make sense. The religion answers so much stuff that science does not so it must obviously be superior even if science is correct on the mundane things. It is very hard to break free and even consider your religion might be wrong.
One of the two kids seemed way more brainwashed than the other. There's one of the two kid I'm really afraid about...
Jesus is still right!!!!
@@joakkley9659 You mean, Jesus was right when he said multiple times that the old testament was "the commandment of God", and that "not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away" from the old testament, therefore saying he was in agreement with God when God was ok with slavery, rape (as long as it's not a married girl), genocide, misoginy and so on ?
If he was smart he wouldn't hold contradictory views.
I think we should applaud theese kids for at the least trying, that they are having a non screaming based argument and they actually listen to the people they are arguing with. while I do not think theese kids are right I believe we could all learn something about having a civilised discussion even if one side of it is too stupid to realise their point is invalid
They get credit for being more humble and much smarter than 99% of the a$$holes that call into the show.
Unreal that this high schooler, as wrong as he is, is more civil in debates than 75% of people on social media lol would love to hear him call back in a few years
íf σnlч thєч ѕtαчєd thαt wαч....
they actually took the first step in the right direction:
calmly talking to people who think differently, trying to argument who might be right, more right or has the better idea
I agree. Also, as a rational guy I have assumed off of religion, luckily I had unbearing parents about it, olus went to catholic school as a child, the sectioning of religion lessons away from actual schooling was beneficial. By 1st grade I was able to learn, and then be given a cartoon version of shit called the bible at the end of the day.
They unknowingly bred a disconnect between learning/reason and religion.
These days, I hold the same rational views as mark, while haphazardly holding any and all religion as poetic or chaotic clues to either metaphysical origin issues or at least anthropological understanding. I have no fear in taking a religious view, even holding a belief to gain perspective, whetjer objectively or intuitively, whateber that is.
I think extra denouncing of religion (emotion) is pointless. Understanding leads to whatever perfection might be upon completion. Dive in to anything at any time, or at least dont be afraid to.
Matt, I applaud you for spending as much time with these kids as you could. The children are what matters most. Combating this indoctrination starts with those most affected by it. Thank you and everyone at the ACA for what you all do!
And I realize I’m late on this, but I am catching up as quick as I can.
I hope this conversation with them still resonates today.
English isn't my first language but the very thing about being "apologetic" always has had me think that an "apologetic" knows they're wrong and "apologizes" or "tries" to bend things in its defense to say "no, you see, it's still valid even though it's wrong in so many places!".
Even when I was still a Christian hearing someone call themselves "an apologetic" sounded like "I'm a loser and I admit I lost"
From Greek apologeisthei "speak in your own defense." A lot of English words for academic subjects have Greek origin.
English isn't my first language (technically), but I agree.
Just watching it now. I'm on 27th minute and the feeling that I'm getting is that Matt is actually getting through to this boy. Up until this call, he felt so cosy and smug in his christian school, but now that he's having a cultured conversation (possibly for the firs time ever in his life), with someone who has opinions other than his own and who can present them in a very logical and non-threatening way, he is starting to see a reason and that he had been fed a whole load of lies at school and home. I could be wrong though ;)
Hahaha, maybe. He's sending them to a war he knows they're going to lose, because he's already fighting undercover for the other side ;)
You underestimate how perverse those teachers are, they will redirect them right back into thinking atheists are satanistic snakes that want to make them feel doubt and go to hell for disobeying the priests and thinking of not voting against abortion etc. It's like they said right at the beginning, they don't have to prove jackshit because faith is an opinion, they are only there to practice arguing in circles.
@Bazza Cuda
I exactly thought the same thing. What kind of Christian teacher would want his students call this program to talk to atheists who gave their years on these topics?
Unless the teacher wants them to become atheists also. :-)
@@MnyFrNthng
It's likely that the students, and the teacher, are trying to save people.
I know a great many Christians who have tried to save me. Though I am still swimming in a sea of sin and damnation.....shame on me.
Apologetics classes teach their students strawman arguments and the dumbed down versions of things athiests say. They can't actually prepare their students for real arguments from athiests, because if they did, that would mean exposing their students to facts that might make them question their beliefs.
In fact MANY Christian teachers will encourage young students or new believers NOT to talk to athiests.
The teacher clearly set these poor kids up, knowing full well what the outcome would be. Ether it was a cruel joke, or he wanted them to know how challenging it can be to debate seasoned debaters.
@@mufasta8322 yea, they put on their armor of god and their jesus colored glasses, and they thought nothing could stop them.
I suspect Ben Dovers comment is probably true. Theists don't realise that Matt and any atheists position is literally infallible. We literally don't know. There is zero evidence of there being any gods, we have no reason to believe the bible is true and the more scientific facts and evidence we gather every day shows there most likely are no gods. Faith is not a pathway to truth and faith is all theists have. The absolute, most honest thing anyone can say is "I don't know"
@@TheTruthKiwi The beautiful thing is that our arguments get stronger by debate, but their arguments have been stagnant for centuries. They will either keep searching for good arguments and, not finding them, begin to doubt. Or they will stick their fingers in their ears and go "la la la la"
"We argue the existence of god, not prove it."
That has to be the most lawyer thing I have ever heard.
These kids were great. They admitted when they were beat. I hope they question what they’ve been taught.
I hope they come around as well
Agree. They were really nice and seemed to actually want to talk and get answers instead if trying to do a bunch of "gotcha" questions. I hope this conversation sparked more curiousity in them
these kids sound like good rational people, i hoped this interview helped them realise the flaws of theism
I believe it will absolutely. I was just like them when I was their age.
For high school those boys sure as hell deserve an A for calling in and making an honest effort. I think they learnt more in this half an hour than in many weeks of school.
My high school had an apologetics class and an “Advanced” Bible class where my classmates and I had to walk around downtown and proselytize. It was the first time (to my knowledge) I had ever spoken to an atheist. The random man we spoke to was really nice, not at all combative like we were taught he would be, and kind of opened my eyes to the idea that atheism didn’t mean evil
“I’ll give you extra credit to completely humiliate yourself on a major radio network”
Indoctrination is a very sad thing
When I was a missionary in Nicaragua I was also taking online versions of my school's apologetics courses to keep up. The classes literally say stuff like this: "An atheist might try to tell you that you need to give them evidence, but they know God exists and it is written on their hearts. If an atheist claims that we have the burden of proof, then he is making a claim. All claims have to be justified in order to be believed, therefore we should not believe the atheist claim that Christian's have the burden of proof." Things along these lines were not uncommon at all. I also got an A on a report I did on why Noah's Ark was scientifically accurate, and my explanation was literally a choice between magic land bridges placed by God and logs floating from the Middle East to the Americas and Australia carrying stuff like Moose and Bears.
Hahahahahaha. What? Lol.
Thank you for the glimpse into that experience.
Jesus lol
What the fuck. Well this explains a lot
Wow
Impressive. Seeds of doubt planted. Their “teachers” are going to have their work cut out for them trying to “fix” the questions these guys will surely start asking later on.
Imagine how much education time they are WASTING by learning apologetics when they could be learning science, mathematics, history, languages or anything remotely useful.
Hopefully some seeds got planted on this call.
In which direction?
DrunkGuy MovieReviews The back end
How cruel of this teacher to have these kids try to argue with people who basically do this professionally. It almost makes me think the apologetics teacher is an Atheist.
well they did say it was extra credit. maybe the point wasn't how well they did, but the fact that they did it at all.
I gotta say, I really liked this one. Matt was impressively patient with these kids because these kids were as intellectually honest (as you can be arguing in support of nonsense) in as much as when adult callers tackle the same topics they either double down on the nonsense, or have a little meltdown when they realize they have painted themselves into a corner. I think there might be some hope for those boys because even though they seemed to be trapped in this christian paradigm in exactly the same way that one guy who Joe Pesci's character had trapped in that vice in Casino, they still understand that concepts in the bible are antithetical to kindness, compassion, and humanity.
Something I've noticed that a lot of the time it is the younger generation of apologists I seem to be a little bit more honest and slightly aren't likely too I guess except another's points you a little bit more
You can hear his brain stretching to try and comprehend their ideas.
Oh I think they understood his ideas perfectly, I think the brain stretching was them trying to figure out how to get out of it.
@@HorrorElementFilms I'm not sure i follow. You think the caller was right?
@@tokukeitaro oh fuck no lol. I mean the kids understand perfectly what was being explained to them, they knew they were getting pegged.
@@HorrorElementFilms intellectual pegging
I'm unusually optimistic for these kids. They aren't consumed with the seething rage against infidels that causes theists to double down as they get older and more stubborn. You don't have to be a super intellectual to be disabused of superstition, just internally honest enough to keep rethinking things, which I feel like they'll do as they get older.
Sometimes it's easy for us to forget that Christians are trying to be good people. Kinda like how cops always see people at their worst.
σr thєч вєcσmє mαtt pσwєll...
I went yo a girls catholic boarding school in France in ELEMENTARY school. I was in fear most of the time.Nuns pulling our hair and ears, ripping us our of bed if we were not kneeling during morning and night prayers. I became a atheist by the time I was 13. I feel so bad for these children that are brainwashed at a young age. It causes years questioning yourself and every reasonable thought you have
This excellent video covers it all from the Old Testament to Jesus to faith, judgement, and evidence. This is my go-to now.
And Matt's even half polite. Maybe Jamie has something to do with that. Young guests were treated with respect. Excellent work you two.
This was me when I was in church growing up. Glad I grew out of this.
Come on kids, I can hear it in your voices, your logical brain is screaming at you that this doesn't make sense. Please. Please, for the sake of your own futures, listen to that part.
Don't keep shutting it down. Don't keep looking for an excuse that you don't even believe. An excuse that isn't even consistent with all the other excuses. Please, look at this objectively, and think.
This is painful to listen too.
A pure example of how religion removes any ability to think logically and absorb objective information on their belief.
It's curious that nobody else from this apologetics class ever called the show again.
Man. One of the best calls ever, I think. --I was also a lot like them, and... yeah. There's hope. Even his intellectual honesty at the end, saying "you've got us in a corner that I don't know we can get out of" is really big. Here's to hoping they're still thinking, asking critical questions, and learning.
Cheers.
Honestly I disagree with most of these kids opinion but blessed be their hearts. They were a really good sport and I wish them the best. Matt and Jamie you are legends.
I didn't realize fan fiction being consistent and cohesive proves Star Wars, Walking Dead and Wolverine are all real.
Thanks for clearing that up for me boys.
You all deserve an A+ for this session. This was a really great discussion. I think there’s hope for those two students. Lol,’😀👍🏼👌✊
These callers were incredibly honest, and I respect them for exploring their "faith".
I love the end " you got us in a corner we are not getting out of" LMAO
Sign of exceptional honesty and bravery. I salute those kids.
If Beavis and Butthead were theists...
Yes!! =]
If you mean the hosts they aren’t theists
Hey beavis tell em about your mom
Haha! Great!
He sounds like Tommy Chong.
Caller "I have faith in my god and that's how I know it's true"
Also caller "just because you have faith that what you're doing is ok doesn't make it true "
It’s easy to do this sort of crazy thinking , without knowledge of fallacies and logic.
"you kinda got us in a corner we can't get out of."
That's my job
Absolutely golden
I am proud of those kids. They give me hope that humanity will eventually shed the shackles of religion. Of course they are struggling to accept ideas that are toxic to the insanity they have been taught, but they were honestly contemplating the issues. I wish all believers, of all religion, were as willing to honestly examine their beliefs.
Same thing with some athiests as well, because religion is not the only belief. For instance: flat-earthers. **sigh**
@@coolguy284_2 yeah, it baffles my mind how you can look at all the evidence and have such a misunderstanding of the world. Heck, just watching the sun's light hit underneath the clouds during dusk and still think that the earth is flat is mindblowing.
This is one of the best shows ever. Each person seemed engaged honestly, respectfully and whole heartedly. This is what community and conversation is all about. Thank you.
Curiously, these callers tapdanced a lot less than the average caller, and admitted being unable to answer, unlike other people who call this show.
I really respect the patience that you guys have and the really straightforward way that you respond.
"I think it's a little sketchy that you're likely to get an A for this conversation" 🔥🔥
Actually, God is OK with abortion - he is perfectly prepared to do it himself. See Numbers 5. (But notice no punishment for the men, or for a man bringing false charges).
Thank you! I was surprised they didn't bring that up. Somebody tried to tell me that wasn't specifically endorsing abortion, but they wouldn't answer me when I asked about how it was very specific about determining 'legitimate' paternity...
@@whateverimtold9872 Yeah - abortion not specifically mentioned, but, as there is no mention that pregnancy is a protective criteria, then pregnancy is a non-issue. Thus, God seems not to care whether she is pregnant - it is an irrelevance. Of course, in that time, a boy probably wasn't considered as a living being until circumcised at 8 days, and girls probably didn't count.....
Mind you, don't get me wrong, in wealthy cultures of today, I would prefer no abortions, but that would best be achieved by great sex and relationship education and excellent contraception. It's sadly ironic that the 'just say no' crowd that makes abortion so hard ALSO hate education and contraception. So, America has MUCH higher abortion rates than other countries that aren't so virulently anti-abortion. I 'love' irony.
@@marklapworth1436 - I hear you. I'd prefer to see abortion become a consideration only in extreme circumstances. But unfortunately I understand the issue all too well.
I had parents that didn't care. And I had a child because I didn't want to be a monster.
@@whateverimtold9872 You paint a perfect rebuttal to all those anti-abortion warriors that paint anyone who has an abortion as thoughtless, careless, callous, evil and sub-human on the grounds that they don't care about the new 'life' that started. Other than a total crack-head, I've never met or seen ANY woman that wasn't traumatised by her decision. (Mind you, many of their partners are also grieved.) Similar feelings abound (but are NOT acknowledged in our culture) for miscarriages (more of God's abortions?).
Having an abortion DOES NOT make anyone a monster - it is, and always should be, an agonising decision. If some do so without appearing overly distressed, many issues may be at play: their personal coping mechanisms; their fear, anger, revulsion and hatred at HOW they became pregnant; love and concern for existing responsibilities and relationships etc etc etc. No simplistic answers, I'm afraid. Pity that is rarely recognised by the rabid ideologues.
@@marklapworth1436 - Yeah, Ikr? I try to tell them that I wouldn't have minded not existing in the first place. Because my life has been...sad.
I think they intrinsically understand that's where their numbers come from though...people who are desperate and sad.
Idk...it's shitty to want people to live through suffering just so they can feel better about themselves, imho. But, I guess that's what western society and economy is built on, ryt...?
These are great kids. Misguided, but their hearts are in the right place. I'd be proud if they were my students.
Props to the kid for saying "you've got us in a corner we aren't getting out of". Refreshing honesty. Awesome vid. Loved the bit where Jamie and Matt are representing polar-opposite faith-based views on "dude-on-dude" action and asking what evidence there is for which view being right.
Jamie speaks very clearly and succinctly. I like it.
Josh & Jax definitely didn’t get an ‘A’ for this call.
They should. They did about as well as you could expect high school students to do.
@@curtisyue182 Yea when I was in a Christian high school I could not have done this.
Uh-oh, Right off the bat he stepped into Matt's favorite subject, morality and God. I really enjoyed this episode. Those were awesome kids!
I love how straightforward and organized the direction of this conversation was in directing the flow of ideas
I also love the humility and honesty in those kids; I honestly hope they're doing alright today :>
"Where does it say in the bible that men and women are equal?"
"Well, man is created in the image of God"
"Yes. MAN."
"Well, I mean, man means all of 'em. Human kind."
Oh? Then why do Christians refer to God as He? Try calling God "She" or "It" or "They" in a church and then call back with your results.
Why should a god have any gender/sex at all? It’s not like god has reproductive organs to reproduce or anything, or does he/she/it?
Because God used to be a literal man in the clouds. But after learning more about reality, it became clear that if God exists anywhere, it's not within this universe. I have to admit I don't see the use of a gender for what is generally described as a disembodied mind existing outside of spacetime.
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is their male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28 (Though this instruction is pretty profoundly contradicted elsewhere in both the Jewish writings (OT) and in the NT. Sad.)
Mark Lapworth didn’t ever really read and digest that verse before so thanks for helping me see it in different context than I was.
Seems like a glaring contradiction to most Christian views on gender roles, homosexuality and transgenderism.
I don’t hear atheist bring this verse up often if at all and they really should. It really paints Christians into a corner because it’s so open for interpretation and they really can’t spin it in a way that doesn’t show either contradictions or that they are wrong for upholding gender roles and their ideas towards lgbtqa people. It really illustrates how you can’t use faith for justification of their morals because of how open ended the verse is 3 people could have apposing thought on what god meant their and all could be reasonably valid in their interpretation.
Hope I’m explaining myself clearly.
Thanks for that, I’ll put it in my debate quiver.
Yes, Matt, it does present a real ethical problem for Joshua followers. It is clearly in alignment with the New Covenant (contract) laid down by Joshua (Love God, and love everyone else as you love yourself). This NEW contract (Mark 12:29-31) supersedes and FULFILS the previous God / Man contracts, so the 10 Commandments and the rest of the 630+ Laws are rendered obsolete / superfluous.
Usually, it seems the argument comes down to a 'Job Response': 'Who are we to question God?' So, if the Never-Changing, all loving God tolerates, or, even worse, promotes profoundly IMMORAL behaviours, apologists are left with few rabbit-holes to hide in. Either 'you don't understand'; God's plan is impossibly complex; it was culturally descriptive - not God's wishes at all; who are we to question God. It all comes back to a Loki type God that will TELL us He is all loving, but then violates many, many 'natural' morals (slavery; infanticide; sexual obscenity; women and children as property etc.).
Claiming Biblical inerrancy and literal perfection closes off a reasonable explanation - that the writers were describing cultural realities, rather than the absolute literal words and actions of God. If God is the author and editor, he is responsible for the failure to in any way indicate that it was NOT a moral action for Lot to give his virgin daughters to a mob to be gang-raped, in order to protect the two foreign strangers / angels and stop THEM from being gang-raped (which seemed the done thing in that town). (Genesis 19). Of course, the daughters then went on later to get their daddy drunk so they could have incestual sex with him IN ORDER TO GET PREGNANT (the only value of a woman is to have children, right?).
The perverted view of woman is cross-cultural and pervasive. Anyone that goes to a 'Christian' wedding and accepts a father 'giving away' his daughter without asking, "So, where is the Groom's Mother giving him away?" hasn't thought it through. (Or they have, and are comfortable that women ARE, and should be, property.)
I wish all Christian Schools would encourage their students to call in! Great way to help them be liberated from their irrationality. Good on these two for calling in and sticking it out, it is really hard to defend your beliefs at such an age and really listen to counterpoints.
Thank you ....this stuff is SOLID gold!
Mad respect for this kid braving your gauntlet of reason. I think he learned something.
One must credit the kids for having the balls to dare engage experienced debaters like Matt and Jamie. However, hopefully this discussion will ultimately provoke him think about what he'd being taught at school. My advice as ever to to Josh & Jax is listen to what you've been taught but be prepared to ask questions when things don't seem right. (don't ask your religious teachers, they'll just tell you the party line from the book) Rather research independently and develop your own opinions.
Thanks guys! Watching vids like this while on an exercise bike makes me burn a LOT of rage calories. So glad I"m finally finding the enlightenment.
Me drawing from Christian arguments, I’ve heard from this show alone - I was raised Christian so I’ve heard a lot, in regard to whether people agree with God’s morals.
Examples:
1. “No, I don’t agree. If two men are happy together then I see no reason they shouldn’t be together. But God said it’s wrong, and I believe that what He says is the truth.”
2.”No, but God said it’s wrong.”
3. (From a black man) “No, slavery isn’t right. But God wasn’t condoning slavery.”
Late to the party but, no, you're absolutely correct in the analogy: they go with the most powerful dictator not because of loyalty but because fear of retribution. Hitler or God has no difference to them as long as they're okay being under the thumb of a powerful monster.
Matt check mates him in under 7 minutes