Why Are There SO MANY Religions? | The Atheist Experience: Throwback
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If word-of-mouth was such a good way to pass down religion, why was the Bible ever created?
From what I read years ago while doing my research, Marcion was writing a bible using only bits of Luke and Paul's letters and taking literary license with both. When word of that got around, the clerics got together and decided to put together a bible of their own and they also kicked Marcion out of their group as a heretic. LOL It took them quite a while to put it together with lots of arguments and internal disagreements, but they finally came up with pretty much with what we have today.
@@rhondah1587a little bit of context about those disagreements. They were because of the trinitarian aspects of god. Some versions supported Jesus as god and a man. Other versions supported Jesus as only a man. And Even there was a third camp that belived that Jesus was never a man.
After months of debating the emperor got feed up and stop the council and the delegation that belived that Jesus was only a man left. Then the delegation that belived Jesús was a god and a man Made another council right away. When the other delegation found out and return the oficial bible was already set.
@@benjaminmadrigalperez9010 You would enjoy the book Jesus Wars by Philip Jenkins. Tells a very good recounting of the whole thing.
I think this point goes to a much deeper problem that is essentially a deathblow to Christianity and basically any other religion with a personal diety who wants his message to get around:
If this god is quite powerful, and it can communicate its message as it sees fit, and it wants us to all understand and agree with its message, why is there any debate going on?
The very fact that there are schisms in Christianity and that literally anyone is not Christian demonstrates one of essentially three possibilities:
1 - the god of Christianity doesn't want its message to be agreed upon by everyone.
2 - the god of Christianity lacks the capacity, either the power or he's just too stupid, to ensure that this message gets through to everyone.
or
3 - The god of Christianity doesn't exist.
the smarty pants at that time knew something about the stones that told the epic of gilgamesh and knowing many other didn't they started a religion, today we have ppl doing that nothing knew
come on the stories are pretty close, some names changed you it's like teenagers coping homework and changing words 🤣
The "telephone game" isn't "set up." It's simply illustrates a very obvious fact: the more a story is repeated, the more it changes. That's it. It's easily demonstrable.
Another big factor for many religions was how difficult information travelled. People were isolated geographically. Information moved as fast as people could walk, then horse and wagon.
When we played the telephone game, I intentionally modified the message a bit.
Stories about a man doing magic are intentionally written.
A man rising from the dead is intentially written that way.
The people who wrote those things are not journalists. They have faith that their country was going to be saved by the messiah and think later on, the greeks took over and they changed it into a global religion (savior of the world).
Have a meeting with 5 people and discuss any topic. When the meeting is over you will have 5 different stories about what was said in the meeting.
No no no.... NO!!!!!
@@doyouevendab77 So, where is my comment?
The fact that a single religious text is “open to interpretation” is a clear indication that it’s not a good form of communication.
That we live in a world where everybody has a camera (smartphone) and people like James Randie are willing to pay millions for any verifiable evidence of anything supernatural but nobody can find any is also good evidence that no such thing exists.
The Bible is not open to interpretations, they have specific interpretations, all of them.
@@carlosalarcon9389 And yet there are so many people interpreting it in so many different ways. Funny how that works.
That is the point. The Bible is not open to interpretation. It’s either correct or false.
@@CharlesGates-v6n Is it correct to hold the other cheek or an eye for an eye? Should we own people as property?
Should we kill girls that have sex before marriage? Should we kill gay people? Should we hate our family (Lk14,26)?
Not so simple, right?
The mental gymnastics Christians do never ceases to amaze me.
If mental gymnastics were an olympic sport he would be a gold medalist.
"MENTAL GYMNASTICS!" Screams the lost and clueless atheist fool that thinks star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE, RESOURCES AND MEANS to create/design LIFE, INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, CONSCIOUSNESS, MORALITY, the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy.
The religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism RUNS from "reality." I would add that as an atheist, you're bankrupt of RATIONAL/POSSIBLE causes for life, intelligence, consciousness, morality and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body.
Atheism has no RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step by step atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. THINK ABOUT what you’re getting into w/ the cult of atheism. GET OUT NOW. I’ll help you find truth. Atheism has none.
@@lifeinthe80s Repeat after me: Jesus is just a legend, myth. We have zero evidence about his existence outside of the bible and in the bible everything is just a hearsay written decades after his alleged existence. Babbling about Jesus is as much valid as babbling about Sauron from Lord of the Ring.
@@lifeinthe80s Repeat after me: Jesus is just a legend, myth. We have zero evidence about his existence outside of the bible and in the bible everything is just a hearsay written decades after his alleged existence. Babbling about Jesus is as much valid as babbling about Sauron from Lord of the Ring.
@@lifeinthe80s What about major omission, of key details...?
Forget about the caller recalling what you said word for word. I'll bet he can't tell you what he said word for word.😂
These defenders and apologists are not scholars or serious students of the Bible or history. They are at best, casual readers who take their preacher’s words as being true. So when they meet an atheist, who likely has seriously studied (which likely led to his atheism) the Bible and he asks serious questions that pose a threat to their beliefs, rather than question their belief, they’ll equivocate and obfuscate in order to preserve the belief.
They are intellectually dishonest to the person they debate and to themselves.
15 arguments that PROVE Santa exists and DESTROY Santa deniers:
*1. Argument from Design*
Every Christmas, a bunch of presents appear under my Christmas tree. I looked up pictures of the PS5 I might be getting if I’m nice, and it looks so beautiful that it can’t possibly have been made in a factory. No, the design is so complex and intricate that it must have been made by elves in Santa’s workshop. Therefore, Santa exists.
*2. Argument from First Cause*
Presents don’t just appear out of nowhere. You can’t just have a bunch of neatly wrapped gifts coming out of nothing. Every present must have a cause, and Santa is the only rational explanation I’ve heard that makes sense. Therefore, the first cause is Santa Claus.
*3. Pascal’s Wager/Argument from consequences*
Let’s say you’re a Santa denier, and it turns out you’re wrong. That means you’re in a world where grown-ups have to spend hundreds of dollars every Christmas, going through all kinds of stress, just to please their spoiled, thankless children. What kind of horrible world is that? Now let’s say you’re a Santa believer, and it turns out you’re wrong. That means you live in a wonderful world where a jolly man flies around and delivers free toys to all the boys and girls every year. I think it’s safer to bet on that option. If santa were false, parents would have to buy the gifts. I don’t want to live in that world, therefore Santa exists.
*4. Ontological Argument*
Let us assume that Santa is a maximally jolly being, the most jolly creature possible. Just imagine his cherry-red nose, his twinkling eyes, his belly shaking like a bowl full of jelly. There’s nothing more jolly than that, right? Let us also assume that it’s theoretically possible for a maximally jolly being to exist. And thirdly, let us assume that it’s better to be jolly and spread joy as a real being in the real world rather than as a made-up fictional character. Would that not be a property of a maximally jolly being? Therefore, Santa exists.
*5. Moral Argument*
Every year, Santa keeps two lists containing all the children of the world: one for “nice” children, one for “naughty” children. This incentivizes children to be on their best behavior, so they don’t get a lump of coal in their stocking this Christmas. But if Santa doesn’t exist and people stop believing in him, what happens then? Then we have no universal standard of morality! If there is no standard for what is naughty or nice, all is permitted! There’ll be rioting in the streets! Ax murderers breaking down your doors! Maniacs poisoning the water tower! Nuclear armageddon! OH GOD WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE! Therefore, Santa exists.
*6. Argument from Prayer*
Last year, I got a Lego Star Wars X-Wing building kit. I asked for that in a letter specifically addressed to Santa Claus. I even wrote “The North Pole” on the envelope and my dad helped me put it in the mailbox. How could my request have been granted unless Santa exists?
*7. Argument from Scripture*
Okay, Santa denier, if Santa doesn’t exist, then who are all the elves working for in their workshop up at the North Pole? Who does Mrs. Claus bake cookies for all year? Who said “Rudolph, with your nose so bright, won’t you guide my sleigh tonight” to Rudolph? Dasher, Comet, Cupid, and the rest have all given personal testimonies that Santa exists. Therefore, he does.
*8. Argument from Fine Tuning*
Did you know that Santa’s body is so fat that it keeps the Earth weighted just enough that it stays in its proper orbit? If he didn’t exist, the Earth would either crash into the Sun or go careening off into space and freeze into a snowball. Thanks to Santa, we’re staying in the exact right spot where we can live and be happy and stuff. No, I won’t give sources.
*9. Argument from Incredulity*
Are you SERIOUSLY asking me to believe that EVERY SINGLE PARENT on the ENTIRE PLANET just HAPPENS to spend a fat wad of cash on toys EVERY December, and then they just HAPPEN to give it to their kids on the EXACT SAME DAY, EVERY SINGLE YEAR? I simply find that to be too much of a COINCIDENCE to believe. Therefore, Santa exists.
*10. Lewis Trilemma*
With regards to the story of Santa Claus, you can believe one of three things. One, that Santa is lying, and that he made up the whole story about himself. But what motivation does he have to do that? Two, that he’s a lunatic, some bearded madman who raves about magical floating reindeer. But if he is crazy, then why does he seem so happy and nice in all the cartoons? That leaves us with only one option left: that Santa is being truthful about what he’s saying, and truly brings us presents every year. Yep, there’s no possible fourth option here.
*11. Jordan Peterson’s Argument*
Do I believe in Santa Claus? Well, it depends what you mean by “believe”. If we examine the metaphysical architecture of belief as a function of Jungian analysis, then we can identify something resembling a Falstaffian archetype as a product of the collective subconscious of various hierarchies. And we must also define what it means to “exist”. If a product of traditional wisdom is so thoroughly intertwined with the hierarchies of pre-Dostoevsky Western society, and this patriarchal archetype functions in bestowing numinous meaning upon the individual and helping to combat the pathological shadow-dragon that lies within the superego, then who are these postmodern neo-Marxists to push an ideology which contends that Santa does not “exist” within these hierarchies? It also depends what you mean by “Santa”...
*12. Argument from Conspiracy*
It’s all a big cover-up! The government doesn’t want you to see it, but in Area 51, they’re hiding photos of Santa in his sleigh, half-eaten cookies with his DNA on it, even one of Rudolph’s turds! You brainwashed sheeple just go about your life with no idea that the deep state has been hiding Santa’s existence from you. The Illuminati has been sending secret UFOs to spy on your house and spray your Christmas trees with chemicals that will turn you into a soyboy! And the ringleader behind the whole thing?...the half-Reptilian half-cyborg known as BILL GATES!
*13. Argument from Personal Experience*
I sat on Santa’s lap in the mall once! Well...I know that wasn’t really him. But the real Santa talked to me one time...well, it was while I was high on ayahuasca. But okay, one time I felt really scared, and I just kinda felt like Santa was there. No, I didn’t see anything. Or hear anything. And nothing in particular really changed about my life, but I just kinda felt a little something, y’know?...Are you converted yet?
*14. Ad Hominem*
You know what? I’m tired of you arrogant Santa-deniers with your “science” that says a reindeer can’t fly. You all just believe this because there’s something wrong with YOU, and you just can’t stand the sight of Christmas cheer or joy. You all just hate the world, and you know what, I hate YOU! I HATE you all so much! You’re all just having a toxic circlejerk! Santa denialism is a religion! That Christmas song you quoted was out of context! You’re all just servants of the Grinch! YOU’RE ALL NAUGHTY AND YOU’LL GET A LUMP OF COAL THIS CHRISTMAS! YOU HEAR ME? COAL! I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
*15. Argument from Honesty*
My parents told me Santa exists, and I like them. If anyone tells me Santa doesn’t exist, I don’t like them. Therefore, Santa exists.
Prove Santa isn't real. I don't have to prove Santa is real. As a Santa denier, you have to prove he doesn't exist. Santa exists outside of time and space relative to the north pole. Happy holidays, Santa deniers!
Needs to be pinned..
I am pleased to report that the Christian Union and the New Testament Society have joined forces going forward. I am certain that everyone will join with me in wishing the C.U.N.T.S. every success in their new endeavour.
😂
@@Hoping4Intelligence
Thank you.
I actually just discovered some great news. Virginia just set precedent for inmates to not participate in "mandatory" religions practice as a prerequisite for parole.
🤣thanks for that
I actually just discovered some great news. Virginia just set precedent for inmates to not participate in "mandatory" religions practice as a prerequisite for parole if it violates their 1st amendment rights.
Why are there so many religions?
Because there are so many fictional gods.
divide and rule
And goddess ...
@@jamespowers5951 TS/DR
All that blather already fails at your first unsubstantiated claim.
Because religious people are open minded and question religious doctrines.
Dimwits swallow atheism, trading the stallion for a worthless three-legged mule.
I was a professor for many years teaching the same subjects. I used the same notes and graphics because the content hadn't changed. I can guarantee you that I never, ever, ever said the same thing each and every time even though I created the content, wrote it down, and gave it many times. The idea that any audience member could accurately capture the words of a speech given outdoors with hundreds of people moving around, making noises, and talking could ever capture the content 100% is absurd. It's wishful thinking. Even in modern times, we need court reporters with specialized short-hand machines to capture what's said. Arguing about whether the Bible captured ANY speech 100% accurately is just a fool's game.
Thanks for sharing, any rational person would agree.
True. Since 99% of the people were illiterate then it adds to the chances the stories in the bible were inaccurate.
That was exactly my thought, it's a very poor public speaker that doesn't mix it up a little, if only for their own enjoyment.
Yes, paraphrasing exists, but so does symantic interpretation. No way people will remember perfectly every time, even if you ask the person who said it.
@@gm2407 And you’d think that when over 99% of the people then were illiterate it would seem they would be less apt to remember since they didn’t know what words are. It seems obvious that being able to read would greatly would help retention.
Why are there so many religions? Because there's lots of people in different places making stuff up. That's actually completely it.
No. Satan has counterfeited God in as many ways as he could, since God kicked him out of heaven.
@@neverendingparty7741 prove it.
@@neverendingparty7741So obviously Satan is smarter and can outwit your god. Please explain. It appears God would like to lose the battle for men's souls.
@@michaelhasted-r2q Most people go to hell, because that's the path of least resistance.
@@neverendingparty1534 God is an imaginary friend, and Satan an imaginary enemy. Please prove otherwise, and I'll become a Christian.
I vividly recall watching this episode live, and it was incredibly frustrating to see the caller waste a good 30 minutes of airtime and then run away after he dov3 head-first into his feelings. If you're going to call in and share your beliefs, you better be ready to back them up and face some tough questions. Don't waste everyone's time if you're not willing to engage in a real debate. This is a debate show, not a platform for one-sided rants.
You're absolutely right!
I suspect a lot of these callers are used to no pushback because the other person either agrees or just doesn't care. So they can just spout off whatever they want and get a _"uh, huh. yea. crazy man."_ and take that as yet another foe vanquished. They they get on the air, make their case, the host asks what their evidence is.. and the caller is confused because they've never had anyone ask a question before.
Yeah, it's VERY telling that he constantly lies, deflects and resumes regurgitating his apologetics.
As, he *can't* defend his bullsheet. So, he just moves on to the next part. Or the "Do what you must!" toddler tantrum, throwing himself on the floor and bawling.
And then finally: Running away crying. I've dealt with these people for 10+ years myself. And it's *so* frustrating, that they'll come back the next day with selective amnesia.*Insist* that they "won". But having *no* recollection of anything that was said. And just re-use the same stuff that was already debunked 40 years ago.
Maybe...just maybe..it is some sirious wrong with peoples minds!!!
Yea but thats what religious zealot cultists want, theyre almost no different than brown shirts in germany......
That kid got owned worse than the slaves in the bible
He was an excellent caller, give him props. He is familiar with Bart.
His argument that the transmission of religious stories is not analogous to the telephone game is a very logistical way to go, even if diving deeper requires whimsical assumptions.
He is a way better rhetoritician than many professional debaters.
@@ryanfloch6054 What's the chance that you _aren't_ "Dean," or his family or friend?😂
@@ryanfloch6054 that’s absolutely wrong. Did you even listen to the call? They explained very clearly how it’s absolutely analogous.
@@Rookz I ain't denying that in the slightest. I'm comparing his rhetorical skills to that of professional apologists. His strategy and angle was the best he could find/
💀😂. Damn 😂
When Dean called your little speech "diatribe", you should've asked him to repeat it word for word. He would immediately fail and demonstrate how bad his argument is.
In 50ish years Star Wars has changed from “No, I am your father,” to “Luke, I am your father.” Star Trek gained “Beam me up, Scotty,” instead of, “one to beam up.” The original media still exists and the telephone mistakes still appeared. Now quote precisely a speech learned decades back. Some could, most can’t. Oral tales inherently change.
There are Gen Zers who believe Lawrence Welk was the first metal band.
In the Original Series episodes "The Gamesters of Triskelion" and "The Savage Curtain", Kirk said, "Scotty, beam us up"; while in the episode "This Side of Paradise", Kirk simply said, "Beam me up". In the episode "The Cloud Minders", Kirk says, "Mr. Scott, beam us up".
The animated episodes "The Lorelei Signal" and "The Infinite Vulcan" used the phrasing "Beam us up, Scotty".
The original film series has the wording "Scotty, beam me up" in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home and "Beam them out of there, Scotty" in Star Trek Generations.
The complete phrase was eventually said by William Shatner in the audio adaptation of his non-canon novel Star Trek: The Ashes of Eden.
@@tonyclements1147 Didn’t know. Thanks. My point still stands, but I’ll stop using this one.
@@tonyclements1147 a ChatGPT check gave you that 😂
@@evangelicalsnever-lie9792
No, wiki did actually..not sure what your point is, I never claimed that I knew it by heart.
Totally dishonest caller.
Well, they can't engage in honest dialogue because they are trying to defend the indefensible, and if they were to answer honestly, they would be led to a conclusion that they can't handle.
To be a believing Christian you have to be a skilled liar. You are either lying to yourself or to everyone else. I'm still not sure which of these disgusts me more.
Typical evangelical
Monty Python's 'blessed are the cheese makers' comes to mind.
Well obviously its not meant to be taken literally rather cheesemakers is meant to refer to any manufacturer of dairy products.
Probably one of the best comedies ever 😂
Adult people complaining about “cussing” is just extremely sad.
Agreed. Grow up and understand context, people. Sometimes, just sometimes... cussing can accentuate and reinforce the _motherfucking_ point that I'm making here.
Yep. There is nothing in the Bible about "cuss" words. The closest it came was the commandment forbidding taking the Lord's name "in vain," whatever exactly that means. For instance, if I were to say, "I think God is goddam great"- is that "in vain," or is it a compliment? And what's wrong with asking God to damn something or someone? Again- that's an affirmation of God's greatness (if he can damn someone to hell, that's an affirmation that he's all powerful). As for, "fuck,"- show me anywhere in the Bible where that word is forbidden. In fact, it didn't even exist "back then." How does saying "fuck" take the Lord's name in vain? If I were to say, "Sexual intercourse you," is that having a "potty mouth?" Does it take God's name in vain, or in any way demean or insult God in any conceivable way? Besides- isn't sexual intercourse "Godly?" (How else are we supposed to be fruitful and multiply? Just plain nutty.
@alamunez - I have to agree that swearing is is distracting. My Mama always said that people who swear do so because they have poor vocabularies. It seems so to me. I do not swear at all because of her lessons. I don't like it; I never will. It drives my friend, who swears a lot, CRAZY. Perk!
@@thomassmith-s4i so many questions; so many ways to answer. I like where you're going here.🍻👍
Agree 100%
So dishonest he can't answer a single thing. I don't remember last week accurately, let alone 10 or 20 years ago and I'm 32. Humans do not have good memory.
Message to trolls: Repeating something 1000 times doesn't prove anything.
So you are saying 1,001 times?
@@lifeinthe80s Well, you only have 1,000 more times to repeat this in order for me to believe you.
@@lifeinthe80s "I’m an agnostic now"
So you are telling us that you are not 100% convinced that a g0d exists?
Ritchie’s supposedly an agnostic because supporting his claim that the Bible is “historically proven” is apparently hard to do, I’ve been waiting four days to see the extra biblical evidence that zombies walked around Jerusalem.
@@lifeinthe80s Which makes you an atheist. Congratulations!
Like other religions Christianity can not prove gods exist.
One thing that helped me deconstruct my faith and led to me being an atheist was realizing if I was born somewhere else, I would have thought that god or gods were real. It always makes me think of a lyric from the song Life is Funny "If I was born a different mind, a different time, a different view, would my behaviors be the same and do we even really choose? Am I the byproduct of my environment?"and it just always makes me think about why there are so many different religions
The evidence that people got the message wrong with the oral tradition is THE BIBLE. We have four gospels that all differ from each other!!
@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.
Here’s something no one, except perhaps Monty Python, addresses.
There wasn’t a microphone and speakers. The sermon was in the open. Only a few could stand within earshot.
“Blessed are the cheese makers?! What makes them so special?”
“It’s open to interpretation, it could apply to any workers of the curd.”
😂
Oh no it’s blessed are the MEEK! Well that’s good because they’ve had a hell of a time. 😂
With respect to the telephone game, I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast two days ago, but I can remember being mugged in elementary school. I even remember the guys name, the road it happened on, and probably could guess the spot on the sidewalk within a few houses. You have to take into account the emotional significance of the event in question.
“I don’t have a brain that’s going to make up excuses when the argument I’m presenting isn’t rational “ perfectly said !!😂😂
Dean, you probably weren't pulling your argument out of thin air ... you were pulling it out of your arse.
I think it's nice there are lots of religions because if you get bored with your particular version of a sky-fairy, there are loads of others to choose from.
The Creator KNOWS
that thousands of years ago, Jesus Christ was hated, dishonored, mocked, insulted, tortured, and murdered
by arrogant, cruel, hateful, and merciless persons
who were violently opposed and against his authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
Who are the modern-day haters, mockers, and "murderers" of Jesus Christ?
ANSWER -
All the arrogant, cruel, hateful, and merciless
Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions
who
are unitedly mocking and degrading Jesus Christ as worthless, useless, and undeserving to be honored and respected as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
What is the Creator's favor and reward for believers of Jesus Christ's authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead"?
ANSWER -
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who believe his teachings
and honor him as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth
will
also be honored and rewarded in return by the Creator with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death
on a safe and peaceful Earth without arrogant, cruel, hateful and merciless persons, without liars, slanderers, traitors, and murderers.
The Creator KNOWS
that the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "RESURRECTION of the DEAD"
is
his guarantee that loving, kind, and respectful persons who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
will
all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily, abundantly, and peacefully live and exist on Earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom
and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.
Also, if the current religion tolerates people you don't like, shop around to find one that does. That way your god and you will have matching bigotry.
@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.
@@jaflenbond7854 👈👈👈 *ABSOLUTE PROOF* that the g0d described the bible cannot possibly exist.
@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.
Elvis died before I was born.
I'm going to write my personal testimony about details of his private life including quoted words that no one was there to here. The bible taught me that none of that matters, I just have to wait another 20 years or so before I can start writing.
Don't forget to mention that thousands of people witnessed his resurrection. And unlike with Jesus, there are independent reports and 1st person accounts of their seeing Elvis after his death. There's even a city in the west where he's seen often.
@@queuecee Any photos?
@@Gwaithmir As many as there were for Jesus. Maybe more.
I was alive in 1977 and I can tell you his death was a hoax. He faked it and has been living happily in Argentina all this time.
@@Gwaithmir I'm going to go the apologist route and use pictures of Elvis Costello.
That I've also photoshopped for some reason.
Did anyone expect Dean, a card-carrying cultist, to be swayed by logic and reasoning? The logical answer is "no".
"LOGIC & REASONING!" Screams the lost and clueless atheist f00l that thinks star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE, RESOURCES AND MEANS to create/design LIFE, INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, CONSCIOUSNESS, MORALITY, the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy.
The religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism RUNS from "reality." I would add that as an atheist, you're bankrupt of RATIONAL/POSSIBLE causes for life, intelligence, consciousness, morality and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body.
Atheism has no RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step by step atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. THINK ABOUT what you’re getting into w/ the cult of atheism. GET OUT NOW. I’ll help you find truth. Atheism has none.
@@neverendingparty7741Is that the same God who couldn't even give you a prophecy that would come true?
These exchanges on AXP are not intended to change any caller's ideas. They are designed to permit you and me to watch the tennis match and learn from the errors committed.
This kid needs to watch Life of Brian, it very accurately describes the problems here. "Blessed are the cheesemakers"
One of the best comedies ever 😂
@@thomasgallipoli8376That great savant Malcolm Muggeridge said was stupid or childish when debating the Monty Python guys. Actually, he come off as the childish one IMO
I really wish Shane was on more episodes then this one, he nailed this call
Don’t be a fool! These 2 hosts are fools (atheists) and their less-than-worthless, asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. No atheist has a RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
The fact remains that along w/ DYING/FINITE space/matter/energy, TIME had a cause. The logical conclusion (when we follow the evidence) is that such a cause is TIMELESS. And if you're TIMELESS, do you have a beginning or end? No. We call that cause "OUR INFINITE, SUPERNATURAL GOD," who by definition is TIMELESS, CHANGELESS, BEGINNINGLESS, SPACELESS, IMMATERIAL and ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL.
These topics are the most important topics known; thus, EVERYONE should have a vast understanding of the facts that frame the truth of these topics and not be so content to gulp down the false propaganda of channels such as this one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
@@jamespowers5951 Repeat after me: abiogenesis and evolution can explain existence of life and speciation as we know it. Evolution is one of the most proven scientific theory in the history, abiogenesis was proven as viable and totally possible origin of life on early Earth. We have REAL POSSIBLE WAY HOW LIFE EMERGED ON EARTH COMPLETELY NATURALLY.
@@jamespowers5951
“Don’t be a fool..”
The F irony..
@@tonyclements1147In his defense, he's not smart enough to recognize his own foolishness.
@@wyldink1 But he *is* smart enough to run away bawling his eyes out, then deny it ever happened.
... Oh wait, that's not intelligent~
I've heard this telephone game argument a few times, and I think they misunderstand what the telephone game's point is. They think the point is that you want to mess up the communication when it's to show that communication NATURALLY gets messed up.
We did it in the army where life and death messages have to be passed on the battle field , after about 10 men the message is corrupted to hell, that's why we write messages down.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. The caller misunderstands the point of the game and refused to see his flawed thinking. I think he wasn’t listening and just waiting for his turn to talk.
"So, what you're basically saying is..." - a guy who's about to completely misrepresent what you just said
I remember watching this episode live while covid anxiety was in full swing. Completely weird seeing this now because it stands out in my memory so prominently.
How many 12 year olds have perfectly memorized the Torah. Full BS flag thrown.
They always pull the "we dont know what humans were like 2000 years ago" routine when it comes to these things.
Apparently they were stronger, faster, smarter and hit puberty at age 7, when their magical books need it to be so.
I want to know how the writers of Mathew and Luke knew what Jesus said when he was alone in the wilderness being tempted by the devil.
@@lifeinthe80sdesperate pot head is desperate
@@lifeinthe80s Repeat after me: Jesus is just a legend, myth. We have zero evidence about his existence outside of the bible and in the bible everything is just a hearsay written decades after his alleged existence. Babbling about Jesus is as much valid as babbling about Sauron from Lord of the Ring.
@@lifeinthe80s News I have is he died a couple of thousand years ago and hasn't been seen since!
@@lifeinthe80s Reading it made me an atheist!
@@lifeinthe80s An ancient collection of mostly anonymous works, full of errors, lies, absurdities, and contradictions. Anyone who truly reads it with a critical eye can see that.
Do you accept the Vedas and Puranas of Hindu, much older religious works than the bible? Have you ever read them?
Do you believe the Avesta, which includes the Gathas-the central writings that are thought to have been composed by Zoroaster himself? Also older than Christianity.
How about the suttas (Pali) or sutras (Sanskrit) and the Vinaya Pitaka (monastic rules) and Abidhamma/Aabidharma (philosophical texts) that compose the Buddhist Canon?
You cheerfully cast them aside for no reason, so why am I expected to explain why I do the same to the bible?
The fact that the method used to convey such a supposedly important message is an old translated book at all, regardless of the specifics of it, is a problem when a deity could literally just impart the knowledge into everyone’s brains directly. There’s no reason for a book to be the main method in the first place.
I would expect a God to know the limitations of the written language
I’d expect a deity’s message to not be fractured into three Abrahamic religions by men deciding what was “holy” and what could be tossed in the bin.
Yeah, not to mention: IF sky daddy is real.
He CAN correct it. *Right now*.
The basically *only* reason, would be IF he is an evil and immoral god, and he basically wants us to hunger games our way through this. With a "Yeah, it's ALL fake. I just wanted to see which people chose to do the right thing regardless of all the lies and pressure! ... and well: Truck those that were born in such a way they never got a choice! Gotta break billions of eggs, yanno!"
What was not addressed is the possibility that authors may have attempted to influence the masses through stories being manipulated.
Dean is too dumb for this conversation. I think that's about 20 callers I've said that about now. *LOL*
The game rules are: you can't go back and ask what was said.
The reality rules are: most people won't bother to stop telling their story to find the person they have heard it from, to make sure they tell the story the exact same.
It's just not practical
There are also no 2000 year old people to ask anyway. I'm 60 and I can't remember Sh_t.
As a lawyer turned journalist, I take really, really good notes. I do NOT take dictation and I do NOT really only on my memory, which is pretty good but not nearly as good as contemporaneous notes. But as Don McClellan says, apologists only need to find loopholes that can’t be disproven to argue that their rationalizations aren’t impossible.
"Blessed are the cheesemakers"
"What's so special about the cheesemakers?"
@@deano2506 'well obviously it isn't supposed to be taken literally. It refers to manufacturers of any dairy products'
Heh. I just woke up and read your comment and completely did not realize you were also quoting. Typed out a 3 paragraph explanation of the joke and why it is relevant to the points about eye witnesses not being accurate followed by another paragraph about how explaining a joke ruins it.
So glad I woke up properly before pressing send :-P
😆😆
For they clog thine nostrils 😂
Ohhh, it's the _meek!_ "Blessed are the meek!" That's nice, 'cuz they've had a helluva time!
"I disagree that it is insufficient" - right after saying that humans could manipulate the kind of message that god chose! If people can CHANGE the message for their own purposes then that method is insufficient for ensuring that an accurate message is transmitted!
Only if you're prepared to listen and be honest. Sean is safe from that style of thinking.
To Dean. 'Blessed are the cheese makers.' 'it's not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturer of dairy products'
So it's god's message for humanity, and he's the one that chose a very inefficient and unreliable way of getting that message out, but it's the fault of humans for not properly understanding the message, even though God should've done a better job making it clear to everyone?
Only if you deal honestly with reality will you discover truth.
If you are so ignorant that your own ignorance is never brought into question reality will always bend in direction of personal desire.
Example: God is necessary because something cannot come from nothing!
A being created from nothing originating from outside everything created the universe out of nothing from nonexistent matter created from nothing using nonexistent engineering principles acquired from nowhere and applied from outside space and time using nonexistent mechanisms invented from nothing. This is all documented by Iron Age goat herders that wrote it down. These writings were later gathered and voted on to collocate into a single book by a committee commissioned by an emperor. All of this is absolutely true because from writing to voting to commissioning it was all divinely inspired as attested to by Christian apologists asserting as such and being the pillars of honesty and integrity they cannot be called into question.
Reality…..never met the guy bet he’s a loser!🙄
Even then ur likely to only discover partial truth. But partial truth has often worked out very well for us
A good example is Monty Python "life of Brian" does the sermon on the mount. Very real and soooo funny!
One of the best comedies ever 😂
Even if Jesus gave the sermon multiple times, what are the chances he said it the same every time?
And that still doesn't get you past the fact that what he said was recorded by men. Who can and do get things wrong all the time.
Inspired by god, interpreted by humans. And this is the best the creator of the universe could do? The single most important document written, if true, and I have to know how to read it "properly"?
No. The KJB 4 gospels reads pretty well. And there are many versions of the Bible. Just do the research to know and STOP w/ the excuses.
@@neverendingparty7741 Repeat after me: Bible was written by iron age totally ignorant superstitious illiterate goad herders who didn't know where Sun goes at night. Bible is just book of fairy tales and stories and represent only THINKING of their authors. Bible is evidence only for existence of bible, nothing more.
Yes, and stop with the excuses He can care equally well about Joshua 7:24, and the situation in Gaza - too...?
Or with similar urgency, and priority.
@@neverendingparty7741 If you bought some flat pack furniture and and before you could use the instructions you had to be instructed in how to read them properly. Other than basic reading skills. You would ask for a refund.
Yet the is the instruction book for life and access to eternal life, "some extra research is required"? Seriously, how dumb is a god that would rely on such a system to communicate its will?
I should be at least able to run it through something like Google translate in a few languages convert it back into my English and have it be pretty much the same.
Univiersity courses should not be there to discuss wether Almah means young woman or virgin. People should not be arguing over slavery and indentured servitude. God should not create shrimp and then instruct people not to eat them.
@@jiubboatman9352 Yes. I imagine you've lived long enough to know that value has a cost. There's no short cut to greatness. There is no free lunch. You want to go to heaven? Then it will cost you. GET OFF YOUR COUCH, PUT DOWN YOUR BEER and do some research. My advice: DO SOME SPIRITUAL RESEARCH! Michael Jordan needed a coach and so does everyone else. A coach for life. Find someone you respect that’s successful in life and love for G0D. Try to understand Jesus in reading the first 4 Gospels of the New Testament portraying the person of Jesus. Maybe attend a few “full gospel” pentecostal church services in a church known to be “ALIVE” with the spirit of G0D - where the gifts of the spirit abound. Pray during this time every day for G0D to reveal Jesus to you. Do it all w/ an humble seeking heart. But let this “mentor” guide you in things “lasting.” Keep open to the things of G0D. If you embrace it, drop the Atheists/evolutionists “no hope,” no purpose, meaningless and dead end philosophy and start living today! G0D Bless.
There is no proof of God for those that have a God bias. Jesus could appear at the foot of your bed tonight and you'll wake up the next day and tell yourself that it was a Vegas act or some bad pizza.
You have to sincerely seek God to come to know & understand God and his ways. You can't sit on the couch with your beer and demand that God appear to you in your living room. It just doesn't happen that way.
Let's face the facts, shall we? You're just another lost & clueless fool that thinks humanity came from star dust or something else equally ridiculous. But you have a 2nd chance. We already read the last page and it says "God wins." I don't know about you, but I'm going to fight and be an overcomer of Satan, the world and with God's help, the flesh. I'm not just going to barely cross the finish line; I'm going to cross the finish line doing warp 13 w/ my hair on fire. NOTHING is going to stop me from going to heaven. STOP wallowing in your lost & cluelessness. Get w/ the program. START TODAY NEW!!
I would say that you fail to understand exactly who God is. He wants to be sought after. Why? Because he's worthy of our pursuit. His awesome greatness is beyond your comprehension. You're breathing air that doesn't belong to you. Taking up space that doesn't belong to you. Given a life that doesn't belong to you. He brought you from nothing and you're nothing, YET you feel totally justified to raise your tiny stupid fist at him. THAT is what you are; never mind him. That said, Jesus loves you dearly & has shown you this love by bringing you from non-existence & giving you “the gift of life.” And did you say “thank you?” No. He also removed your doom via the sin of Adam by the suffering on the cross for you. And did you say “thank you?” No. He’s also “prepared a place for you in Heaven” if you’ll only return his love that’s already given you. And did you say “thank you?” No. Again, it’s the “love” of Jesus for people is what attracts them to Christianity. Your move, Chief.
Have theists EVER considered the reason they are struggling to find empirical evidence of a creator or messiah by eyewitness accounts is that there just isn't any?
"A rational process is a moral process. You may make an error at any step of it, with nothing to protect you but your own severity, or you may try to cheat, to fake the evidence and evade the effort of the quest-but if devotion to truth is the hallmark of morality, then there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking."
-Ayn Rand-
We know that mark 16:9-20 is not in the oldest bibles as well as the adulterer story. These stories was added centuries later and it had jesus speaking.
We dont know what jesus actually said because he never wrote anything down.
And that is exactly why we can't trust what is written. How would someone know what was said years later after it was originally left out, and what justify it being added?
@@pinky9440 Seeing how jesus never wrote anything down and what was written came 30-60 years later, it can't be trusted.
there are conversations written when no one was around to hear what jesus said.
@@defenestratefalsehoods Isn't that exactly what I said?
@@pinky9440 no
@defenestratefalsehoods Yes, it is. How would someone know what was said, years after it was originally written down? So the original comes years after it was supposedly said or done, and then even longer after that, that so-called original is updated with something new. So how would someone suddenly know of something new to add to the original text, years later, when most people involved in the original text was probably already dead?
Honestly, this isn't hard.
It cannot be "sufficient" when it fails at the task.
If you build a rocket with the intention of going into space and the rocket fails to get into space then you cannot say that it was "sufficient". it is insufficient, by definition of the fact that it was not sufficient to complete the task.
If you're hungry and you eat a meal, and you still feel hungry afterwards, the meal was not sufficient.
That's what "sufficient" means - scrapes its arse over the bar. But it must clear the bar. A "good enough" answer. But if you fail at the task in hand, then it's a "not good enough" answer, because it didn't actually work.
Also, we weakened from "perfect" to "sufficient". If we keep on going, then "probable" was sneaking into the conversation with Jesus repeating speeches multiple times. The argument is weakening in front of our very eyes here.
It's accurate. No, it's sufficient. No, it's probable. No, it's possible. No, it's not likely. No, it never happened.
In a sense, I'm tempted to say "keep talking". At this rate, we're only about 20 minutes away from a confession that atheism is right and a live conversion on AXP.
gawd... he's trying to deny the telephone game, while he describes it another way, then says one is over another, your caller is searching for denial possibility... madness implied.
Madness would be saying something like “I fully acknowledge my belief in god is faulty, but from that faultiness comes truth” or some other completely loony-bin statement like that. Intentional dishonesty and the specific defense mechanisms used to prop up a rational veneer are traits of someone who is decidedly not insane and doesn’t have that excuse.
@@ZhangK71 I generally agree, but there is an aspect of madness involved, especially in "the faithful". & yes they lie to keep their faith... whole heartedly, which is the FRAUD they purvey. & in truth there is no excuse as... we exist (rational, evidential argument against their delusions), & that "we" are easily accessible; unlike their catacombs of secreted knowledge that their leaders (the TRULY DECEPTIVE) learn from to control their ... flock of sheep. All religious leaders should be tried for FRAUD... if in the bible it says the flock must heed mans courts, then a ruling would needfully be heeded by the flock (Muslim or Christian, as Allah says the bible is true, fact of written words in the coran), so, it is up to man to rid ourselves rightly of religion, we can do it in our courts lawfully & with Gods approval. Will we is the question... of the state; it likes using religion to control the masses... might we start there with that FRAUD upon citizens? I understand your disposition I have the same, for example calling politicians idiots... gives them an out, when in fact they are unscrupulous thieves merely appearing as fools, to fool mainly the religious types, as they tend to believe what spouts from an alter. My top post did address this simply "madness implied", I'm glad for your extrapolation.
Dean is one of the most dishonest callers on ACA shows, I have heard him multiple times on TH and AXP and everytime he is dishonest, especially (if you wanna have a good time look up) the time he talked to Noah Lugeons on TH, Noah rips him a new asshole
Found it - the video title is 'Noah Lugeons has Gone Super Saiyan! | Dean - North Carolina | Talk Heathen 03.02' :)
The fun starts at 20:09 🍿
Ya he won’t even admit the gospels are anonymous even know he has been exposed to that information and knows it’s the majority position of scholars. ( from another dean call )
The early manuscripts had no signature, the names associated just got added on to later copies.
The later copies also got longer because revisions were done.
Blessed are the piece makers. You can't build anything without the pieces.
It's true that pizzas are the favored nourishment of God. Except pizzas with pineapple on it. Obviously Satan has corrupted God's perfect recipe there.
DEAN, no one is supposed to intentionally F up the telephone game, are you one of those idiot kids that got the message wrong on purpose????
Looking in from, South Yorkshire, England GB , We referred to, what you call the telephone game as, Chinese whispers.
Also, Religion, in all its forms, came about, for one reason, and one reason only. "To Control the People". IMHO The 1st form of Fascism.
The old saying in Christianity, sums up the only aim of Religion, perfectly. "Getting everyone singing from the same hymn sheet"
Dean's a perfect example of willfully ignoring the question asked. And it's telling to his belief system that he feels he has to pretend to be a moron rather than answer honestly.
People like telling stories and watching the reactions of the listeners, everyone likes their story to be entertaining, exciting or shocking and even people you would trust and would call honest tend to embellish in order to make the story a good listen.
12:05 It just occurred to me, even if Jesus did give the same speech a number of times, how many in the audience would be individuals who heard that speech at some time before? Even if they did hear it before is it possible for them to recall the exact words Jesus used? There are plenty of speeches that I heard a few times. The JFK going to the moon speech. I can recall just a few things about it, the main one is we are not doing it because it's ease, we are doing it because it is hard. Are those words accurate to what JFK said? How about the speech in Animal House by Bluto? How many times have people heard it, and what do they recall about it?
I like how they say the gospels being different is a blessing that they are different views but oral traditions was better back then.
The guest caller is emotionally unstable 😂 "just drop me then. Do what you gotta do." You can hear him about to cry.
I thought this caller was calm and patient; the host was getting emotional and swearing like a teenager.
Caller believes in a fairy tale sure, but he communicates better than the host in this video.
@@MiscName
NO!
@@MiscName He does not. He has constant toddler tantrums playing the victim and goes "YOUR MOM!". Refusing to listen or be held accountable.
*Every. Single. Time.* He pulled "No, no. Let ME tell YOU what YOU said!" and tried to "correct" them on what their words means.
Ie: "When I say the sky is blue. What I mean is: The sky is blue. - Nonono! What you ACTUALLY mean is: Fish are birds, which: Is very silly, and I disagree with. Now! This in turn means that god is perfect, which: You JUST admitted to. When I explained what your reply meant."
@@MiscNameThere were two hosts in this video, but why do you care about people using colorful language? Three adults were talking here, afterall... right?
@@FakingANerve mate I was replying to a comment saying the guest caller was emotionally unstable. My point of view is that the host who was doing the talking was the unstable one. I’m not offended by the swearing. It shows me how weak the person is being.
Jesus was married if he was a Rabbi. If the caller is calling him a Rabbi,, it was illegal for Jesus to NOT be married. Jesus was married, if you consider the New Testament doesn't mention the subject, it actually goes out of its way to avoid the subject of Jesus being married. If Jesus was a rabbinical teacher at all, he was required upon being put to death way earlier in his life ... to have been married. You can't teach the flock how to live unless you have learned what it is to be married. If he existed, he was married and sired children to boot. There is a bloodline from Jesus if he existed. Oh, and by the way: JESUS is NOT a NAME!!! it is a title and a title only during those times which was claimed by thousands. Jesus was never a name,, and as a title required to be married. Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love
Put down the beer, kid. Jesus wasn't married.
@@eleanorgeorge7069 there are books on it.. Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love
Could be wrong here but I believe that Jesus Sermon on the Mount wasn’t a single speech but was the Sermon of the Mount tour which he took on the road and had numerous gigs. I believe he extended this to Europe and the US. Therefore obviously it means it is all true. 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah sure it is all true, especially the part where 5000 morons go into the desert without water and food so that Jesus can use his superpower of transforming 5 bred into 5000 breds.
His live album went triple platinum!!
I feel sorry for super rational nice humans that are stuck in religion's grip. I often comment that religion has become the biggest procrastination on the human project. This is one of several examples. Imagine what Dean could accomplish in this world if he wasn't stuck on the "need to prove" the validity of such a God. Ugh.
@@jaflenbond7854 ⬅️ ignore this one
@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.
A perfect example from my life. I was required to memorize Patrick Henry's famous "Liberty or Death" speech. I thought those were the words he actually said, until 10 years ago when I learned that there is no manuscript or transcript of that speech. What we read was cobbled together from the memories of some of the Burgesses there listening. I suspect that he actually did say, "give me liberty or give me death" because a phrase like that would tend to stick in the mind. But the rest is a mere approximation.
And additionally, that is precisely what a right wing human trafficker would say, both back then and today.
So that part is reasonably likely, but not those precise words, maybe not even remotely close. That one line could have a 15 minute sidetrip. that got boiled down to a bumper sticker.
Dean’s rationalization of the message delivered in the Bible is a perfect example of how the message can change when you have an agenda. From day 1, everything about Christianity is an agenda.
What an embarrassing caller, reaching the wrong conclusions and being desperately smug about it too. I'm sure there's some merit to the idea that people contemporary to the story of Jesus would've been much more used to passing on information via an oral tradition, and you could even argue they'd be better listeners or slightly better at retaining that information than modern people - we have a _lot_ more information at our fingertips than they would've done, less competing/distracting sources of information, etc. But even if we accept the feasibility of that, it doesn't mean the people who wrote the bible were accurately repeating verbatim everything Jesus or any other bibilical character might've said. They didn't have magical memory powers! At best they'd have a tradition of orally repeating bygone sermons as accurately as they could've done - which still would've led to misremembered details and distortions over time, and I'm being very generous with this interpretation.
I'm willing to believe that Homer's stories, in rhyming Ancient Greek, held onto the same story better than we do. I can even remember difficult lines from Shakespeare quite well because they are in blank verse. But the Roman occupation, after the Jewish rebellion that induced them to ravage the Temple, are reported to have destroyed any Jewish writing about anybody claiming to be the Messiah.
I'm 40min in and it's killing me that they've not thought to mention that not only would people have to remember verbatim.... they'd have to wait 40 years to write it down lol (and this very idea is ABSURD)
I can't remember what I did a week ago! Imagine writing it down 40 years later and believe it is accurate.....
@@pinky9440 I used to keep a diary, writing nearly every day, and was still surprised when I read some entries back that I’d written more or less at the time of XYZ thing happening.
@@ShintogaDeathAngel Exactly! Imagine not having that entry to trigger your memory.
I am a teacher and I spend every minute of class going desk to desk asking students if they need helping understanding the assignment or performing it, clarifying any miscommunication, etc. Also, the instructions are clearly written by myself in the board or a handout. I give examples, a template, literally do it first with them as a possible avenue to take even when it's creative work. This god is a bad communicator on the most basic level, can't even compare him to a mediocre teacher.
There were apostles who clashed on understanding what Jesus wanted, especially Peter and Paul who disagreed on the laws of circumcision. Most of the apostles were still teaching that circumcision was necessary, even for the gentiles. There was also a disagreement as to whether the word of Jesus was to be taken to the gentiles first.
Those are just some of the different messages that Jesus’ chosen 12 couldn’t come to an agreement on. If the 12 chosen, who traveled with him for three years, couldn’t all be teaching the same thing, then how much more accurate teachings would other converts be? The church got off to a really bad start, especially when you had one apostle, who happens to be the one we have the most literature from, didn’t even know Jesus personally, nor traveled with him. Paul wasn’t present for the sermon on the mount, even if that was a stump speech Jesus gave many times?
Paul McCartney has misremembered lyrics to some of the most known songs ever created that he penned and has performed countless times but first century shepherds had eidetic memories? Sure 😂
Ah, Monty Python, Sermon on the Mount:
J- the meek shall inherit the a earth
Meanwhile at the bottom of the hill we hear, why should the Greek get to inherit the Earth?!?!
One of the best comedies ever 😂
The callers smugness and dishonesty disqualify him from arguing anything honestly.
This guy has me convinced religion causes brain damage.
I am a Machine Learning engineer, although I don't work on LLMs. The tools I build are meant to solve more specific problems. Improving patient outcomes, predicting potential manufacturing problems, reducing workplace accidents in factories. Boring things like that. However, I am aware of how these LLMs work, and built one myself for fun. I think you're 100% right to worry about what this technology will do to creative jobs (including engineering btw), and what it means for intellectual property rights. But I also worry what this technology will do to human discourse. LLMs cannot produce original thoughts. It can only parrot (please no stochastic parrot jokes) ideas which have already been set to writing. LLMs can give you the next James Patterson novel, but it can't push human creativity forward in any meaningful way. For that, we will still need humans like you. Love your channel btw, even if I'm a Gen X and don't always get your cartoon references (I'm a Hanna-Barbera kid)
7 mins in and I had to stop. Guy and argument is craaaaaazy boring
Dude acknowledges that the bible is flawed yet refuses to accept any implications that follow from the fact that the bible is flawed.
Yes, there are so many religions, but MINE is the TRUE religion.
Took 14 minutes to ask the most relevant question: why would an all knowing, omnipotent God decide to transmit his message in a way that could be possibly be less than 100% accurate?
How do you know it was even given once ?
Callers need medical assistance to get themselves untwisted from their convoluted "logic." I'm having a hard time with the idea of Jesus giving "speeches." Caller tries to see the idea of the "context" of the "speech" being relevant to whether Jesus gave it multiple times. That idea requires that the author provides an accurate, detailed account of the "context," which doesn't exist.
*The Bible : **_Faith in the claims that men make, about God & Jesus_** ;*
It's amazing that Christians can't see, the huge bias they have, for their preferred beliefs.
Christians would never give the same _benefit of the doubt,_ for similar hearsay claims, from other religions.
Yeah, every religion but theirs is superstition
If oral tradition is so accurate, why are there so many variations of all the old fairy tales.
"FAIRY TALES!" Screams the atheist fool that believes the human being came from a rock, that morality came from a mud puddle, that life can come from a warm pond. Son, we have billions of mud puddles, rocks & warm ponds. NONE OF THEM has ever produced anything NEW. You're atheist desperation is noted. SORRY KID, but it’s blatant stupidity (atheism) to think that star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE AND MEANS to create/design LIFE, INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, CONSCIOUSNESS, MORALITY, the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy. You have a ton to learn. Thank God I'm here to teach you the facts, because you're totally lost & clueless.
@@jamespowers5951 Repeat after me: there is no such thing as god in reality. Clear evidence shows us that every isolated society created their own version of gods, their own verion of LOCAL FLOOD, their own version of Earth and universe. There are no mutually isolated two places in the world where people have the same gods, that clearly proves that EVERY IDEA OF EVERY GOD IS MAN MADE.
@@jamespowers5951 Repeat after me: abiogenesis and evolution can explain existence of life and speciation as we know it. Evolution is one of the most proven scientific theory in the history, abiogenesis was proven as viable and totally possible origin of life on early Earth. We have REAL POSSIBLE WAY HOW LIFE EMERGED ON EARTH COMPLETELY NATURALLY.
@@lifeinthe80s Repeat after me: Jesus is just a legend, myth. We have zero evidence about his existence outside of the bible and in the bible everything is just a hearsay written decades after his alleged existence. Babbling about Jesus is as much valid as babbling about Sauron from Lord of the Ring.
@@lifeinthe80s
But on the other hand, you're illiterate.
Last month I chaired a book launch for three authors. We supplied the 60 attendees with pen and paper and asked them to write about the first ten minutes of the function. We ended up with 60 different descriptions. And that was just afrer one hour
Probably for the same reason there are so many different variations in motor vehicles.
Everyone has their own niche requirements and preferences.
And a good Monday Morning 🌞 AXP Fans and Theists ❤❤❤
Peace Love Empathy From Australia 👍🤠✌️
Top of the morn to you cobber.
@@ookekklibarianbornagain6708 You to cobber.
Though I'm not a fan of daylight savings, bout time we done away with it.
How's the weather your end? Been a drizzling weekend here.
@@lifeinthe80sNice, but what about God?
We Aussies only scruff with the big boys.
Peace 🤠
@@smochygrice465 Not having daylight savings is one of the few + of living in QLD.
The rain is doing the same on GC and of course the fireys are getting run off their feet.
@@lifeinthe80sA few times back in my hay day, when I had long blonde hair 😊
Now its gray, receded and shaved 😢
This guy's argument for Jesus giving the sermon multiple times is actually making it worse not better because as someone who gives speeches and who used to do Church speaking I would give the same sermon multiple times and I never did it the same way twice sometimes I would change the illustration sometimes I would change the examples sometimes I would change the verbiage because as a speaker you don't say it the same way every time and little things can make big difference is in the way that the speech is mint and said so he's making the argument worse not better and just to prove the point even more I am speaking into Google voice messaging while I drive and I guarantee that the message that's coming out in the comment section on TH-cam is not what I'm saying LOL
The fact is the guy is probably right that Jesus gave that sermon many times, and it was not likely that he said exactly the same thing each time.
Well, he would claim that Jesus did give the exact same sermon many times, because he was infallible.
I think the better objection to his argument is that even if Jesus did give the exact same sermon many times, since there is no original text to settle disputes, people who heard the exact same sermon and did not remember it exactly right have no way to determine which of them has which part right or not. The caller seemed to think that they could go back to other people who heard it to find out what is correct, but again, there is no way to settle disputes even if you do try to talk to witnesses, since two people will say that some part was different, and who is right?
The whole idea was just an exercise in absurd mental gymnastics for the caller.
@@XJWill1
Good point.
I would think the bible would have said he gave the speech many times instead of only once and calling it THE sermon on the mound. If, that is, it was inspired by some god. But we all know the bible is full of misinformation and contradictions which you would expect from something man made and not inspired by any god.
"He gave these speeches many times, and people remembered them and preserved them through oral tradition."
Ok, so why did the later gospels have more fleshed out stories than the earlier ones? That sure sounds a lot like a story growing over time after multiple retellings. You know, the telephone game.
I'd say a more accurate example would be: Teach ~5 students the lesson.
Then blame the OTHER students if the first 5 students either doesn't teach sufficiently, or at all. Because "They had free will."
Like, sure: Maybe the 5 students never handed out the assignment. But you can't blame the teacher for that! The students all had free will! And sure, one of the students decided to give out fake assignments as a "prank". And the teacher told all students that they MUST trust these 5 other students but like... they *should* have interpreted the work better.
Javed Ahktar had a great point, ‘Whatever the spiritualist is saying, he is using his brain, he just doesn’t want you to use yours.’ Surely the phone caller can feel he is struggling to get the square peg in the round hole. If he is inspired by a god, why does he struggle to make a point?! Dean should be asked which version of Ressurection is correct from the great perfect oral tradition codified by Mark, Luke, Peter and Paul.
Another thing.
Even if Jesus did give the Sermon on the Mount multiple times... what's the odds that Jesus himself gave the exact same word-for-word sermon each time?
When people give the same speech multiple times - even from a written script - there still creeps in variations.
Tell me the story of King Midas. Then let's reconvene here a week later, and tell me that same story again.
Indeed, with the best speech givers, it's actually guaranteed that it'll vary. Because, to give good speeches, you do not read from a script but always ad-lib, in the moment, as if saying it for the very first time. It gives your speech conversational tone and better delivery - and you react to your audience.
If the audience laughs one time, but not another. If they gasp here, but another crowd doesn't. The best speech givers react to that. Comedians leave gaps in which people can laugh - and then they time when to continue, as exactly when the peak has crested. Comic - and dramatic - timing has to be felt in the moment.
Even if it were given multiple times, was the speech identically the exact same word-for-word every single time?
In fact, bringing up the speech being repeated multiple times introduces another concept - if the speech was not word-for-word identical every time that Jesus spoke it, then what do we even mean by suggesting that it was perfectly recorded word-for-word? Which time? Which version? What would "word for word" even possibly mean, if the speech actually varied every time he gave it?
I don't know that this is doing the argument any favours. It's really making it much worse.
If the speech was not 100% identical every time it was given, then what does the very word "accurate" even mean? Accurate to what? Which one?
The Bible is all fact and I can prove it. 66 books are in the Bible that are written by God who used mankind to pen it. We know God wrote it, due to the 2500 prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the 500 left for him to fulfill during the rest of this church age and the 1,000 yr Reign. ALSO by the content of the Bible, which no goat herder of 3,500 yrs ago could know, such as effect of a nuke on the human body, the 2nd law, the fact that God created time/space/matter/energy, that circumcision is done on the 8th day, just like doctors do today. The earth is round and the fact that the Universe is expanding: ”He alone STRETCHES OUT the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.” Job 9:8.
Wrong answer again NEP. The Ethiopian Bible, which is perhaps the oldest Christian Bible, includes somewhere between 81 to 84 books, depending on different factors. The Roman Catholic Bible has 73 books, and the Greek Orthodox Bible-without an official number-is somewhat larger, with somewhere between 75 and 79 books. The Syriac Bible also has quite a wide range of different books.
Some “expert theologian” you are.
Given Powers' propensity for lying incessantly, I would take everything he says as the opposite is true.
Isn't it interesting that Neppy spends years telling us his version of his past, but after getting called out for his lies about his past - and present - he suddenly now says the past doesn't matter... I wonder why he's saying that.. lol
And that is after trying to keep pushing his lies... despite the evidence to the contrary.
Isn't it a badge of your abject defeat to attack the MESSENGER for his MESSAGE that totally annihilates every facet of your asinine, lost & clueless atheist cult? You had no PUSH BACK against his IRREFUTABLE FACTS that broke the spine and killed your stupidity (atheism), so now you hate him and want revenge? It won't do. You need to be a better loser.
NEPs just looking for attention..we’re the only ones that have been humoring him.
@tonyclements1147 "Nep is looking for attention..."
Not only does he desperately need our attention, but that mixed with the fact that he thinks our telling the truth about him is attacking him... lol, who pathetic is that lol
@@tonyclements1147 IF you're actually going to base your Godless faith on a Godless world, because THEN, you have to believe that a BIG BANG happened without a cause/source of time/space/matter/energy, because the BIG BANG produced time/space/matter/energy, which is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE, but atheists have no problem with IMPOSSIBILITY, as I'll further prove: So something besides time/space/matter/energy produced time/space/matter/energy at the BIG BANG and a rock came from that BIG BANG and got cooled off by rain to produce a MINDLESS, NON-PURPOSEFUL SOUP that produced a FIRST CELL. Now I don't know of any mud puddle in earth's history producing LIFE or a living FIRST CELL, but this is what you toons believe; A ROCK DID IT! LOL
So this FIRST CELL, of course, had within it the systems to eat, digest food, eliminate waste, move, breathe and reproduce. It also had the DNA blueprints for 9 million DIFFERENT animals, the human being and 300,000 DIFFERENT plants, because a NEVER OBSERVED MINDLES PROCESS CALLED "EVOLUTION" DIVERSIFIED the content of this FIRST CELL into the animals, plants & humans we observe today. Of course that FIRST CELL had to find a girlfriend, date, marry and have kids, but it got the mud puddles permission :)
My brother and i were on the exact same cruise at the exact same time, and both alive. There was an incident that we both agree happened.
If you ask him the version of events and ask me you will gwt contradictory stories. These are stories from 2 people that were verifiably there and you get different stories. How the f can you think that people who weren't there can get thebstory straight
Now I want to know what the incident was....
@Andrew-Comi my brother in law got in a fight and my brother ran to save his butt.
The reason why the telephone game is a poor analogy, is that the reality of oral tradition is even WORSE than the telephone game, because people become highly attached to the importance of their misinformation.
This caller tried to argue that the Telephone Game analogy doesn’t apply here because people could correct their stories by asking the originator. The flaw in that argument is assuming the originator was always nearby to ask. As the stories spread linearly away from Jerusalem, to Greece, Egypt, Rome, the originators were many hundreds of miles away in an age with no phone/email. There was no way to correct the stories as they spread far away.
Nobody wrote about jesus until 30 odd years after he was supposedly crucified. Nobody. The reason I believe, is because had they written things about him while he was alive, people would go looking and discover that even if he were a real person, that he could not perform miracles and xianity would have never gotten started. They literally had to write it after most people who might have been around at the time jesus supposedly lived were dead.
So everyone that lived in ancient times was versed in perfectly repeating what was told to them? Every. Single. Person. Illiterate. All these languages. Perfect communication....genius.
Why is God such a Deadbeat Dad?
Jaffles doesn’t know.
@@jaflenbond7854
sad child
@@jaflenbond7854
When will you learn that spamming the same irrational fairy tale over and over again, doesn't make it real?
He just stepped out for cigarettes! He'll be back any century now!
@@jaflenbond7854 "you are free to dishonor the creator..."
Well, you said it. 😂