You save my day ! I'm restoring (first restoration) a suzuki b120 and the last owner remove this pump to run pre-mix which I learned is a bad thing to do because the engine is not design to lubrificate from the top but only with the pump. So I bought an use one from ebay and I wanted to check if it's properly working problem is the service manual just tittled don't dissamble the oil pump and nothing else... So you little course just help me figured out what I should check for. Thank you very much sir !
I too enjoy looking teardowns and I have found that many misunderstand the engineering and the devil in the details. Great video.. Great narration! In this case, I am wondering if cam slipping occurred from someone tinkering with the hold down nut on this component??? at any rate - Great style - bring it on .. when is our next video ?
No , I wouldn't be able to , the pump was returned to the owner so not able to measure. Have you got any calipers if so measure the diameter of the threads. If no calipers use an adjustable wrench on the thread then measure the gap. If for example thread measures less than a whole millimetre say 5.67 it will be a 6mm (m6) bolt and so on. You may be able to re tap the thread without drilling but If the threads are gone buy the next size up bolt and re tap. Up to you whether you try it or not but if you get a stainless steel bolt the same size as a larger new banjo you can tap using that. Just grind out a couple of small grooves along the thread shaft. This works well with soft metal and saves the expense of a tap.
Very helpful couple of videos, thank you. I have a new bike and am sorting some issues. I'm having problems with my GT250 (L) pump as I have oil to the pump but it doesn't seem to be getting any further but it may just be air in the pump and 4 x outlet hoses after I drained the oil tank and replaced the hose from the tank to pump which I would like to bleed before I try a strip down. I can see the banjo's could be cracked slightly to remove air from the 4 x oil lines to the crank but is there a port on the pump that can be cracked to remove any air from the pump before moving onto the 4 x oil hoses. Thank you
Hi, there are two ways you can bleed the pump. 1) remove the pump from the engine, unscrew the bleed nut at the front of the pump, (the big hex nut which has spring and plunger) fill it with oil and replace then remove rear cover and fill that with oil and replace cover. Unscrew banjo coupling on feed pipe and let oil flow through then replace and tighten. Remove the outlet hoses, Remove the speedo drive housing and connect your drill to it. Spin the drill in direction of rotation ,should be clockwise and oil should be seen to slowly pulsate out. Try to keep the cable lever forward for max oil flow. Keep spinning until air is removed. Connect the outlet pipes and spin until oil flows from pipes. Make sure all air bubbles are out.
Apologies accidentally hit add button, if the oil doesn't flow easily warm it up or use a syringe to push it through the feed pipe. 2) The other way is to remove outlet pipes and leave for a few hours and let gravity flow the oil through the pump then use the drill purge the pipes of air. Hope this is clear enough to help.
Second thoughts, a safer bet with your pump after filling with oil is to replace the speedo housing before spinning with the drill. You can use a screwdriver bit and access the slot in the spindle under the pump. Spin anti clockwise from here. Make sure feed pipe is attached at all times. Also test the one way valves in the outlet pipes to ensure they are working. Nothing should blow back up to the pump ,if it does it will not lubricate engine. Once all bled leave the pipes detached from the engine for a few hours and see if oil continually drips out. If either issue occurs they need replacing .if they drip then the crankcase can start to fill with oil causing engine not to start and other problems.
Hello Brillant video i beleve im having this very issue with the cam!! the oil pump arm would stick part way so i rebuilt it with new seals it was then operating freely but lots of smoke at tick over so decided to go over the pump aging incase somthing was wrong when i noticed a rub marks on the cam that were not toutching anything to make them so i turned the cam 180 degrees to make contact but now the sticking has returned any help would be fantastic thanks Dan
Crash85 Hi Dan, Just to confirm the cam should be set so that it is facing into the pump with the lever in the normal position held back by its spring. Cam should not be facing towards the rear it should be hidden from view when You take the rear plate off. You would think as I did back in the seventies when I had my first Gt 250 that by pushing the lever forwards it would push the piston forwards and naturally produce more oil but in fact the exact opposite happens as it prevents the piston from travelling its full distance. Regards the lever sticking that is normal all my old bikes were exactly the same , when the bike is running it sticks for a fraction of a second before returning. What causes this is the shape of the cam- as the lever is pushed forwards the pin at the rear of the piston drops off the edge of the cam allowing the piston to move backwards further therefore allowing a greater distance of movement and more oil. When you shut off the throttle the cam rotates back with the lever and will come up underneath the pin on the piston and due to the design will appear to get stuck needing to be forced back. DONT FORCE IT . It will only get stuck when the piston is at the end of its rearward stroke but as soon as the piston moves forward again by the motion of the bolt and its ring the cam will clear and return to its idling position. All happens in a split second and when the bike is running you won't even notice this happening as all so quick. If you have the pump in your hand when it sticks just turn the spindle clockwise when viewed from the top and and when piston moves forward the cam will clear the pin and the lever will click back. I have had 5 of these bikes since the seventies and all levers stuck and my first had the cam fitted back to front. I got it real cheap though as the bloke thought the engine had blown due to all the smoke ,as did I. A tip re bleeding the pump. Before putting the pump onto the bike ,Use an oil can or syringe fill the area of the cam with oil then put the plate on ,undo the bleed nut take out spring and plunger and fill this with oil , screw bleed and assembly back in and oil will bleed back through oil feed and engine pipe feed holes. Keep level and fit to bike. If all the pipes are bled this will save a lot of time. Hope this helps. MB
Hi can i ask the middle banjo bolt on pump?? Iv taken mine out as couldn’t seem to tighten up ?? On the threads there seems to be a very light spring wrapt around the banjo bolt thread would you know if thats correct or would it be the thread of inner pump hence not being able to tighten . Thank you p
Hi, there should not be any Spring around the thread , I reckon from what you describe someone previously has stripped the threads and used a helicoil to reform the thread? .
Thanks for the reply . Iv taken two banjo bolts out and 1 has been broken . And as you say threads have been strip. So this needs a rethread. Would you no the size of the banjo bolt and the new size i need to order so i can try and rethread with a new bigger banjo bolt . The pump now seems to be working apart from one banjo I’m unable to tighten down. Thank you- p
Can I ask a question please? I have a 1976 gt 250 and it smokes like buggery, would this be caused if the cam on the pump was installed incorrectly? The engine is fine, plenty of compression but very smokey and performance is impared, engine revs drop when pulling away. I think too much oil plug is oily a d drips from end of exhaust I would be grateful for some help please Cleeve
Hi, firstly check the alignment marks on the pump body and lever. You can adjust this slightly even if they do align. Make sure the plunger in the pump is not stuck and is freely moving, I have had several where if left for long periods they stick. Check the cam is fitted the right way otherwise max oil when idling which fills the engine and exhausts with oil. You can buy oil that reduces the smoke from these bikes. The bikes are nicknamed not 2 strokes but 2 strokey smokies for that reason. Usually the oil burns off after a mile or 2 and settles down. Lots of these bikes do have excessive oil on idle which clogs the engine . A fact with these bikes is full performance is not reached until the engine revs reach 4,000rpm so they are a bit sluggish pulling away and then all of a sudden take off when the revs hit 3-4000. I hope this helps good luck.
You save my day ! I'm restoring (first restoration) a suzuki b120 and the last owner remove this pump to run pre-mix which I learned is a bad thing to do because the engine is not design to lubrificate from the top but only with the pump. So I bought an use one from ebay and I wanted to check if it's properly working problem is the service manual just tittled don't dissamble the oil pump and nothing else... So you little course just help me figured out what I should check for. Thank you very much sir !
Good to know it helped
Regards
I'll have a go mate
Thanks for your help
Nice and clear explanation (no background music is a BIG plus...…) Thanks
Great vid thanks!
Great video, great disassembly explanation. I think it would save me lots of time :)
Building a GT 200X5 now and have it running on premix but need it on pump. Bottom line is that this has been helpful.... :)
Very nice bro 😀
I too enjoy looking teardowns and I have found that many misunderstand the engineering and the devil in the details. Great video.. Great narration! In this case, I am wondering if cam slipping occurred from someone tinkering with the hold down nut on this component??? at any rate - Great style - bring it on .. when is our next video ?
No , I wouldn't be able to , the pump was returned to the owner so not able to measure. Have you got any calipers if so measure the diameter of the threads. If no calipers use an adjustable wrench on the thread then measure the gap. If for example thread measures less than a whole millimetre say 5.67 it will be a 6mm (m6) bolt and so on. You may be able to re tap the thread without drilling but If the threads are gone buy the next size up bolt and re tap. Up to you whether you try it or not but if you get a stainless steel bolt the same size as a larger new banjo you can tap using that. Just grind out a couple of small grooves along the thread shaft. This works well with soft metal and saves the expense of a tap.
Very helpful couple of videos, thank you. I have a new bike and am sorting some issues. I'm having problems with my GT250 (L) pump as I have oil to the pump but it doesn't seem to be getting any further but it may just be air in the pump and 4 x outlet hoses after I drained the oil tank and replaced the hose from the tank to pump which I would like to bleed before I try a strip down. I can see the banjo's could be cracked slightly to remove air from the 4 x oil lines to the crank but is there a port on the pump that can be cracked to remove any air from the pump before moving onto the 4 x oil hoses. Thank you
Hi, there are two ways you can bleed the pump.
1) remove the pump from the engine, unscrew the bleed nut at the front of the pump, (the big hex nut which has spring and plunger) fill it with oil and replace then remove rear cover and fill that with oil and replace cover. Unscrew banjo coupling on feed pipe and let oil flow through then replace and tighten. Remove the outlet hoses, Remove the speedo drive housing and connect your drill to it. Spin the drill in direction of rotation ,should be clockwise and oil should be seen to slowly pulsate out. Try to keep the cable lever forward for max oil flow. Keep spinning until air is removed. Connect the outlet pipes and spin until oil flows from pipes. Make sure all air bubbles are out.
Apologies accidentally hit add button, if the oil doesn't flow easily warm it up or use a syringe to push it through the feed pipe.
2) The other way is to remove outlet pipes and leave for a few hours and let gravity flow the oil through the pump then use the drill purge the pipes of air. Hope this is clear enough to help.
Thank you very much. I will try this.
Second thoughts, a safer bet with your pump after filling with oil is to replace the speedo housing before spinning with the drill. You can use a screwdriver bit and access the slot in the spindle under the pump. Spin anti clockwise from here. Make sure feed pipe is attached at all times. Also test the one way valves in the outlet pipes to ensure they are working. Nothing should blow back up to the pump ,if it does it will not lubricate engine. Once all bled leave the pipes detached from the engine for a few hours and see if oil continually drips out. If either issue occurs they need replacing .if they drip then the crankcase can start to fill with oil causing engine not to start and other problems.
Thank you, I will be on to this at the weekend.
Hello Brillant video
i beleve im having this very issue with the cam!! the oil pump arm would stick part way so i rebuilt it with new seals it was then operating freely but lots of smoke at tick
over so decided to go over the pump aging incase somthing was wrong when i noticed a rub marks on the cam that were not toutching anything to make them
so i turned the cam 180 degrees to make contact but now the sticking has returned any help would be fantastic thanks Dan
Crash85
Hi Dan,
Just to confirm the cam should be set so that it is facing into the pump with the lever in the normal position held back by its spring. Cam should not be facing towards the rear it should be hidden from view when You take the rear plate off. You would think as I did back in the seventies when I had my first Gt 250 that by pushing the lever forwards it would push the piston forwards and naturally produce more oil but in fact the exact opposite happens as it prevents the piston from travelling its full distance. Regards the lever sticking that is normal all my old bikes were exactly the same , when the bike is running it sticks for a fraction of a second before returning. What causes this is the shape of the cam- as the lever is pushed forwards the pin at the rear of the piston drops off the edge of the cam allowing the piston to move backwards further therefore allowing a greater distance of movement and more oil. When you shut off the throttle the cam rotates back with the lever and will come up underneath the pin on the piston and due to the design will appear to get stuck needing to be forced back. DONT FORCE IT . It will only get stuck when the piston is at the end of its rearward stroke but as soon as the piston moves forward again by the motion of the bolt and its ring the cam will clear and return to its idling position. All happens in a split second and when the bike is running you won't even notice this happening as all so quick. If you have the pump in your hand when it sticks just turn the spindle clockwise when viewed from the top and and when piston moves forward the cam will clear the pin and the lever will click back. I have had 5 of these bikes since the seventies and all levers stuck and my first had the cam fitted back to front. I got it real cheap though as the bloke thought the engine had blown due to all the smoke ,as did I. A tip re bleeding the pump. Before putting the pump onto the bike ,Use an oil can or syringe fill the area of the cam with oil then put the plate on ,undo the bleed nut take out spring and plunger and fill this with oil , screw bleed and assembly back in and oil will bleed back through oil feed and engine pipe feed holes. Keep level and fit to bike. If all the pipes are bled this will save a lot of time. Hope this helps.
MB
Machine boss 123 hello thanks for the help that hped alot the pump is fixed and reassembled now and working no leaks thanks again for the help
Hi can i ask the middle banjo bolt on pump?? Iv taken mine out as couldn’t seem to tighten up ?? On the threads there seems to be a very light spring wrapt around the banjo bolt thread would you know if thats correct or would it be the thread of inner pump hence not being able to tighten . Thank you p
Hi, there should not be any Spring around the thread , I reckon from what you describe someone previously has stripped the threads and used a helicoil to reform the thread?
.
Thanks for the reply . Iv taken two banjo bolts out and 1 has been broken . And as you say threads have been strip. So this needs a rethread. Would you no the size of the banjo bolt and the new size i need to order so i can try and rethread with a new bigger banjo bolt . The pump now seems to be working apart from one banjo I’m unable to tighten down. Thank you- p
Can I ask a question please?
I have a 1976 gt 250 and it smokes like buggery, would this be caused if the cam on the pump was installed incorrectly?
The engine is fine, plenty of compression but very smokey and performance is impared, engine revs drop when pulling away. I think too much oil plug is oily a d drips from end of exhaust
I would be grateful for some help please
Cleeve
Hi, firstly check the alignment marks on the pump body and lever. You can adjust this slightly even if they do align. Make sure the plunger in the pump is not stuck and is freely moving, I have had several where if left for long periods they stick. Check the cam is fitted the right way otherwise max oil when idling which fills the engine and exhausts with oil. You can buy oil that reduces the smoke from these bikes. The bikes are nicknamed not 2 strokes but 2 strokey smokies for that reason. Usually the oil burns off after a mile or 2 and settles down. Lots of these bikes do have excessive oil on idle which clogs the engine . A fact with these bikes is full performance is not reached until the engine revs reach 4,000rpm so they are a bit sluggish pulling away and then all of a sudden take off when the revs hit 3-4000. I hope this helps good luck.
One further point ,check the one way valves in the oil feed pipes because if they are faulty they will just leak into the engine.
Hi the previous 2 comments came from me and I not sure how I was on a different channel. anyway good luck with it.
@@David-np9pw❤