Much more classic BMW, same for the G20 5 series! It's kind of interesting that BMW would have got the feedback that BMW enthusiasts love the classic BMW lines of these two models yet changed the styling direction anyway (cough, XM).
He does not get the newest press cars and has a kind a niche viewer base but still amazing channel, proper petrolhead. One of the rear channels I watch every video.
I couldn’t be more happier with my M2CS with a DCT. I haven’t driven a manual but the 7 speeds keep it in the sweet spot of the power band quite nicely I think. The low mileage DCT’s are still fetching a pretty penny as well ( although not as much as the manuals). If you’re chasing lap times the DCT is the better car.
I wonder if Fenton subconsciously drives harder on the side of the road away from the sheer drop? Indeed, most of the videos seem to be on this side of the road (away from the sheer drop side)... but maybe as more of an expert driver, he switches the part of his brain responsible for fear off and is happy to drive just as hard on the other side of the road! 😃
The CS is expensive and at first I thought it was way too much over the comp (which is what I have) but say you don't wan to track it, the things that come on the CS are things people spend thousands to put on their comps, the 763 wheels, carbon lip, diffuser, spoiler, mirrors. Then you get a carbon hood and the roof. All those things alone will basically be the extra cash and you also get the "nicer" seats and better suspension. (and the misano blue color is great, the one to have on the CS) . However if you going to be tracking it then be better off spending the extra 30k on mods and have a more capable car (starting with the CS and then moding for the track seems like a waste).
None of those things really equal out to $30K, though. You can get pretty much all of them added to a comp for under $10K. The suspension can be changed with coding. Since you're going this route with not tracking the car, you're losing out on things like a usable center console, better climate controls, and usable doorcards. The only thing that's worth while on the CS are the CCBs.
@@deadhouseplants64 hmmm 10k? Try again. The 763M wheels are 5k, the carbon hood is also close to 5k. All the other carbon stuff is like 4 or 5 so we are now at 15. How much is a carbon roof going to cost ya? Installation not cheap and run the risk of leaks. Then a tune to get to cs levels of power, another 1k. So you are probably on low 20s and we are not even talking about suspension, nicer seats and bit more special interior and eventually maintaining the value way more than the comp. The asking price really was a better proposition than it looks
@@oficina_moomoo 763M Wheels you buy for $1040 each, let's give you 5K. You then sell the 788M wheels for $3K. ~$2K. GTS Hood is $5K if you want to pay OEM BMW price, which you shouldn't. Japanese (best quality CF) hood, $1200. If you really need a CF roof (which you don't, the weight savings are minimal and should keep the alum. roof) there's one for $980. CF lip, diffuser, spoiler for around $1600 total. ~$3800. Suspension, steering is literally the same in M2/M3/M4 Comp+ models, it's just coding. ~$150. A CS tune from BM3 comes with the BM3 license, so that's $595 but you can buy them used for $300. ~$600 All in all, ~$7500 to include the cost of installation of parts. You could buy OEM M4 Comp seats (if you really want "better" seats) or OEM CF buckets form the G8x platform and still come up with extra money from the $30K. The CS interior is a gimmick for a daily since there's less comfort and places to put things. So no, not a better proposition than it looks. It's actually worse.
@@deadhouseplants64the cs has the same door cards and climate control as the comp. You can’t code anything with the suspension, the cs has a different setup with adjustable shocks. BMW will sell you all the parts you need to make your comp a cs for well over 20 grand. The last I checked the center console was north of 8 grand. Go for it, enjoy the depreciation. CS prices will follow the 1M trend, comps won’t.
@@elephantsandbadgers9189 CS prices might follow the 1M trend not because it's a bespoke car or passion project from the engineers, but a master class in marketing.
Personal opinion- I prefer the DCTs in the modern M cars to any manual or ZF8. The last M car I’d gladly take a manual in is the E46 M3. What a car. But I always wonder how it would be with a DCT. Anyways, I believe you, thetopher, tedward, Milesperhr, and thesmokingtire are the best auto journalists out here making content. I really think your format is my favorite. All about the driving and straight to the point. I hope you continue making videos and the channel continues to grow!
This is good to hear and reaffirms the tough decision I've made by going with an F80 with DCT. I drive exclusively manuals but really don't like BMW shift feel. Didn't even like it in my E46 M3 that much but it's much better than the more modern boxes I've tried. Funnily enough, the 330i ZHP I had shifted better than my M3.
The only thing the F87 M2 or M2C need is a set of KW 3-Way Clubsport coilovers and you are done. These are much more capable than the CS Coilovers and cost about 5 grand.
@@ZygreneIt suits the every day use well but the springrates of the V3 are too loose for the weight this Plattform brings to the table. Maybe you will get your hands on an F87 with KW Clubsport or Competiton Coilovers down the road. It’s a different animal.
The CS is really nice, it's spot on IMO! What bugs me with the new standard M2 is that BMW have deliberately made it softer and more mild to make space for a Competition or CS later on. By all means leave out the more expensive options, but why not give the standard M2 a stiffer, more dynamic suspension?
The steering/LSD/dct/Dtc programming can be updated to M2CS version on any m2. Camber correction hubs are standard on the CS for extra -0.5°, but you can fit them to any m2 unless you'd rather do adjustable front lower control arms or camber plates; this should be where most of the steering difference comes from. Even a base m2 is traction limited (especially FBO + tune, can also upgrade a turbo for more top end excitement without sacrificing response) which makes it engaging and fun in a goofy way, but it wouldn't be able to keep up with something better balanced like a Cayman in the corners 😢 it does have better sensation of speed, but it's also a lot more work to drive fast since the turn in is nowhere as good, and it just wants to go sideways instead of putting power down, guess just front engine things. Sadly ohlins roadsport (road and track with softer swift springs and 3dm valving to match them) doesnt sort it out completely, need to do more to the suspemsion, add more alignment capabilities and maybe a front sway bar (stiffer front springs probably could've worked as well).
It's crazy how much different the CS feels compared to the Comp, which drives much closer to the OG, bar the engine. The adaptive suspension is for sure classes above the standard items in the OG/Comp, and the calibration definitely plays a role. I wonder how much the benefit of the sandwich CF roof is. Since they also use it in the Racing version (unlike the bonnet), it must be adding significant stiffness to the platform, allowing the dampers to do their work.
Which would be more engaging to drive day to day, not canyon carving or track? Also factoring in the Integra TYPE S/Civic TYPE R into this equation? @@Zygrene
Suggestion: Next time you get a chance to drive a Comp or CS, set the steering to Comfort - I really think you'll prefer it. I tried all 3 settings at length in my Comp, and would never have thought the Comfort setting would wind up being my preference, but after reading about a bunch of other guys coming to that conclusion before me, I have to agree.
your punctuality with these videos is insane. M2 convertible is literally the rabbit hole that kept me up for 8 hrs last night, & now i wake up to find you posted just that. Need to know what you think about the g87! & then we need it in convertible flavor!
@@APOEL2012 No it's the same. Even if they did the camber won't make a noticeable difference in steering feel like it is here. It's all due to the tires, brakes and wheels. I put it on my comp and I noticed the difference in steering feel right away.
@@Unicornpirate extract german car magazine road test on m2CS front toe in 0'06" camber 1'48" - respective ranges 0'02" to 0'18" & -1'14 to -1'44" rear toe in 0'16" camber 1'24" - respective ranges 0'10" to 0'22" & -1'35 to -2'05" Std M2/M2C alignment ranges:- front (nominal) toe in 0'05" & camber -1'29" - respective ranges -0'01" to 0'11" & range -0'59 to -1'59" rear (nominal) toe in 0'08" & camber -1'50" - respective ranges 0'02" to 0'14" & range -1'30 to -2'10". Every small change combined makes the difference. Even the roof which for the first time its a structural part . Even the suspension etc. steering feel has to do with those parts we’ve mentioned above but in the end every part together create the whole experience.
@@Unicornpirate Dude, i put all seasons on my comp (it gets cold where I live, but not enough to need snow tires) to see if they'd work. Grip is great!! But it absolutely destroyed my steering feel. Lesson learned.
Honestly, I feel the S55 and the DCT go so well together, I would chose the DCT. I have a F82 M4 with DCT and the driving experience is incredible. The power delivery is not necessarily linear but with the DCT you can keep the car in the perfect gear easily. On a NA car like GT3 or GT4, I think manual is the way to go because of the linear power delivery.
Completely modding the M 2 competition which has today in 2024 a base price around $72.000 and with all the shortage of Supply for Car Parts especially i would rather buy this Car at $20.000. The exhaust modification is easy and not extremely expensive. With labor 2/2500 Grand & the going price no matter which Car site is $100.000. Time after all is money the cost alone off the labor for such modifications is easily $7500/10.000
Looks fun, a lot of fun, but do you really want an explosive power delivery engine and a squirrely rear-end on mountain roads, with or without guard rails? Seems kind of suicidal to me.
The amount of people here mentioning the e46 m3 is making me feel really good about getting an e46 m3. Why spend 50-100k for a car “almost as good as the e46 m3” which costs 20-30k (30k gets you a mint one)
This car reminds me of the Subaru 22B with the bulging sides and color. It's too bad that Subaru getting away with making performance cars. But this car is the road torpedo.
So much prettier than the new M2.
Much more classic BMW, same for the G20 5 series! It's kind of interesting that BMW would have got the feedback that BMW enthusiasts love the classic BMW lines of these two models yet changed the styling direction anyway (cough, XM).
But slower...
@@mikedenkinger9570 Fast and beautiful beats faster and ugly for a street car.
Crazy that you're still sub-100k subs. Keep up the good work!
most of the best channels have less subs that they should, I guess subs don't equal quality
He does not get the newest press cars and has a kind a niche viewer base but still amazing channel, proper petrolhead. One of the rear channels I watch every video.
I couldn’t be more happier with my M2CS with a DCT. I haven’t driven a manual but the 7 speeds keep it in the sweet spot of the power band quite nicely I think. The low mileage DCT’s are still fetching a pretty penny as well ( although not as much as the manuals). If you’re chasing lap times the DCT is the better car.
This guy means business. He is wearing arctic camouflage track pants.
Car reviews are srs bsns
What pants?
Better than going commando.
Idk what youre on about. I just see him wearing a g banger
I wonder if Fenton subconsciously drives harder on the side of the road away from the sheer drop? Indeed, most of the videos seem to be on this side of the road (away from the sheer drop side)... but maybe as more of an expert driver, he switches the part of his brain responsible for fear off and is happy to drive just as hard on the other side of the road! 😃
The CS is expensive and at first I thought it was way too much over the comp (which is what I have) but say you don't wan to track it, the things that come on the CS are things people spend thousands to put on their comps, the 763 wheels, carbon lip, diffuser, spoiler, mirrors. Then you get a carbon hood and the roof. All those things alone will basically be the extra cash and you also get the "nicer" seats and better suspension. (and the misano blue color is great, the one to have on the CS) . However if you going to be tracking it then be better off spending the extra 30k on mods and have a more capable car (starting with the CS and then moding for the track seems like a waste).
None of those things really equal out to $30K, though. You can get pretty much all of them added to a comp for under $10K. The suspension can be changed with coding.
Since you're going this route with not tracking the car, you're losing out on things like a usable center console, better climate controls, and usable doorcards. The only thing that's worth while on the CS are the CCBs.
@@deadhouseplants64 hmmm 10k? Try again. The 763M wheels are 5k, the carbon hood is also close to 5k. All the other carbon stuff is like 4 or 5 so we are now at 15. How much is a carbon roof going to cost ya? Installation not cheap and run the risk of leaks. Then a tune to get to cs levels of power, another 1k. So you are probably on low 20s and we are not even talking about suspension, nicer seats and bit more special interior and eventually maintaining the value way more than the comp. The asking price really was a better proposition than it looks
@@oficina_moomoo 763M Wheels you buy for $1040 each, let's give you 5K. You then sell the 788M wheels for $3K. ~$2K.
GTS Hood is $5K if you want to pay OEM BMW price, which you shouldn't. Japanese (best quality CF) hood, $1200. If you really need a CF roof (which you don't, the weight savings are minimal and should keep the alum. roof) there's one for $980. CF lip, diffuser, spoiler for around $1600 total. ~$3800.
Suspension, steering is literally the same in M2/M3/M4 Comp+ models, it's just coding. ~$150.
A CS tune from BM3 comes with the BM3 license, so that's $595 but you can buy them used for $300. ~$600
All in all, ~$7500 to include the cost of installation of parts. You could buy OEM M4 Comp seats (if you really want "better" seats) or OEM CF buckets form the G8x platform and still come up with extra money from the $30K.
The CS interior is a gimmick for a daily since there's less comfort and places to put things.
So no, not a better proposition than it looks. It's actually worse.
@@deadhouseplants64the cs has the same door cards and climate control as the comp. You can’t code anything with the suspension, the cs has a different setup with adjustable shocks.
BMW will sell you all the parts you need to make your comp a cs for well over 20 grand. The last I checked the center console was north of 8 grand.
Go for it, enjoy the depreciation. CS prices will follow the 1M trend, comps won’t.
@@elephantsandbadgers9189 CS prices might follow the 1M trend not because it's a bespoke car or passion project from the engineers, but a master class in marketing.
M2CS is right up there as peak BMW for me. Maybe an e46 m3 with choice mods beats it but these cars are right at the top.
Personal opinion- I prefer the DCTs in the modern M cars to any manual or ZF8. The last M car I’d gladly take a manual in is the E46 M3. What a car. But I always wonder how it would be with a DCT.
Anyways, I believe you, thetopher, tedward, Milesperhr, and thesmokingtire are the best auto journalists out here making content. I really think your format is my favorite. All about the driving and straight to the point. I hope you continue making videos and the channel continues to grow!
I appreciate the kind words! And I agree that BMW DCTs are the sweet spot.
Yeah I've never really liked manual with turbo cars
For a high revving NA though it's a must
I love my manual Supra and I know the ZF 8 speed is really good for what it is, but I wish they offered a DCT version of the Supra. Would be sick!
This is good to hear and reaffirms the tough decision I've made by going with an F80 with DCT. I drive exclusively manuals but really don't like BMW shift feel. Didn't even like it in my E46 M3 that much but it's much better than the more modern boxes I've tried. Funnily enough, the 330i ZHP I had shifted better than my M3.
@@dsher503 The Supra shifter feels great. Doesn't feel like regular BMWs.
Thanks for answering my email about the Supra and Cayman!
the DCT might be even more appealing now that BMW has ditched it in favor of the Zf 8 speed
The only thing the F87 M2 or M2C need is a set of KW 3-Way Clubsport coilovers and you are done. These are much more capable than the CS Coilovers and cost about 5 grand.
i believe the m-performance coilovers are just white labeled KW's
Even the KW V3 equipped M2C I reviewed was really impressive
@@ZygreneIt suits the every day use well but the springrates of the V3 are too loose for the weight this Plattform brings to the table. Maybe you will get your hands on an F87 with KW Clubsport or Competiton Coilovers down the road. It’s a different animal.
The CS is really nice, it's spot on IMO! What bugs me with the new standard M2 is that BMW have deliberately made it softer and more mild to make space for a Competition or CS later on. By all means leave out the more expensive options, but why not give the standard M2 a stiffer, more dynamic suspension?
The steering/LSD/dct/Dtc programming can be updated to M2CS version on any m2. Camber correction hubs are standard on the CS for extra -0.5°, but you can fit them to any m2 unless you'd rather do adjustable front lower control arms or camber plates; this should be where most of the steering difference comes from.
Even a base m2 is traction limited (especially FBO + tune, can also upgrade a turbo for more top end excitement without sacrificing response) which makes it engaging and fun in a goofy way, but it wouldn't be able to keep up with something better balanced like a Cayman in the corners 😢 it does have better sensation of speed, but it's also a lot more work to drive fast since the turn in is nowhere as good, and it just wants to go sideways instead of putting power down, guess just front engine things. Sadly ohlins roadsport (road and track with softer swift springs and 3dm valving to match them) doesnt sort it out completely, need to do more to the suspemsion, add more alignment capabilities and maybe a front sway bar (stiffer front springs probably could've worked as well).
It's crazy how much different the CS feels compared to the Comp, which drives much closer to the OG, bar the engine. The adaptive suspension is for sure classes above the standard items in the OG/Comp, and the calibration definitely plays a role. I wonder how much the benefit of the sandwich CF roof is. Since they also use it in the Racing version (unlike the bonnet), it must be adding significant stiffness to the platform, allowing the dampers to do their work.
One of the last dct bmws😢
I'm interested in your thoughts comparing this to a the new G87 M2.
F87 M2CS is more raw and has more character, without being punishing. G87 M2 is the better every day car.
Which would be more engaging to drive day to day, not canyon carving or track? Also factoring in the Integra TYPE S/Civic TYPE R into this equation? @@Zygrene
Suggestion: Next time you get a chance to drive a Comp or CS, set the steering to Comfort - I really think you'll prefer it. I tried all 3 settings at length in my Comp, and would never have thought the Comfort setting would wind up being my preference, but after reading about a bunch of other guys coming to that conclusion before me, I have to agree.
Interesting! Will try that next time
@@Zygrene yeah, same thing on the GT350/R. the comfort setting is the most natural and the others feel artificially weighted.
@@outforaripperI totally concur. I drive in comfort on streets as well as on tracks.
Love the vids. Keep em coming
your punctuality with these videos is insane. M2 convertible is literally the rabbit hole that kept me up for 8 hrs last night, & now i wake up to find you posted just that.
Need to know what you think about the g87! & then we need it in convertible flavor!
I reviewed a G87 a few months ago in a comparo against a base F87!
if money was no object, would you say its worth 'upgrading' from a standard M2C to a M2CS? im tempted :P
If money is no object, hell yes
Why is this even a question?
Good review! I can’t see getting this over an 981 M2 though
Was this car the last BMW to get DCT? All the others since seem to have the ZF 8 speed torque converter.
That's right, as far as I know
Yep, DCT are long gone
You can get this car's steering feel in a M2C. It's all down to the tires (Cup 2 R), lightweight forged wheels and carbon ceramics.
They revised some other bits , like the camber etc.
@@APOEL2012 No it's the same. Even if they did the camber won't make a noticeable difference in steering feel like it is here. It's all due to the tires, brakes and wheels. I put it on my comp and I noticed the difference in steering feel right away.
@@Unicornpirate extract german car magazine road test on m2CS
front toe in 0'06" camber 1'48" - respective ranges 0'02" to 0'18" & -1'14 to -1'44"
rear toe in 0'16" camber 1'24" - respective ranges 0'10" to 0'22" & -1'35 to -2'05"
Std M2/M2C alignment ranges:-
front (nominal) toe in 0'05" & camber -1'29" - respective ranges -0'01" to 0'11" & range -0'59 to -1'59"
rear (nominal) toe in 0'08" & camber -1'50" - respective ranges 0'02" to 0'14" & range -1'30 to -2'10".
Every small change combined makes the difference. Even the roof which for the first time its a structural part . Even the suspension etc. steering feel has to do with those parts we’ve mentioned above but in the end every part together create the whole experience.
@@Unicornpirate Dude, i put all seasons on my comp (it gets cold where I live, but not enough to need snow tires) to see if they'd work. Grip is great!! But it absolutely destroyed my steering feel. Lesson learned.
It would be amazing for you to try new m5 CS.
Can’t find a dct M2CS for sale anywhere. Only manuals were available last I checked.
Absolutely no regrets on my DCT M2CS. Can't beat the constant flow of power with the S55 engine.
@@hjkk.4681 pulls like a freight train for *cough cough* 450 hp
Too bad they only made it for 2020. Love the look of this car. Very exclusive looking. The wheels, brakes, scoop, etc. Yes, worth it.
Hey now... my wifes M2C feels special, too.
Nice review man!
The lag down low you mentioned might be due to the DP without tune
Did the tune change the engine character at all? E.g. does rev hang delete etc make it feel a little more special?
If you bought an M2 CS would you choose the DCT or manual?
Honestly, I feel the S55 and the DCT go so well together, I would chose the DCT. I have a F82 M4 with DCT and the driving experience is incredible. The power delivery is not necessarily linear but with the DCT you can keep the car in the perfect gear easily. On a NA car like GT3 or GT4, I think manual is the way to go because of the linear power delivery.
Can you provide wheel specs? Front and rear
Completely modding the M 2 competition which has today in 2024 a base price around $72.000 and with all the shortage of Supply for Car Parts especially i would rather buy this Car at $20.000. The exhaust modification is easy and not extremely expensive. With labor 2/2500 Grand & the going price no matter which Car site is $100.000. Time after all is money the cost alone off the labor for such modifications is easily $7500/10.000
M2cs awesome! What do we think about the M4 GTS in comparison?
the m4gts is the only car I would trade my M2C for
Looks fun, a lot of fun, but do you really want an explosive power delivery engine and a squirrely rear-end on mountain roads, with or without guard rails? Seems kind of suicidal to me.
Have you driven a manual 997tt? What would be your pick between the two for a sportscar you could use everyday? I haven't gotten any seat time in a CS
The amount of people here mentioning the e46 m3 is making me feel really good about getting an e46 m3. Why spend 50-100k for a car “almost as good as the e46 m3” which costs 20-30k (30k gets you a mint one)
M2CS is great until you start thinking about the Cayman GTS 4.0, which has a NA motor and better handling.
This car reminds me of the Subaru 22B with the bulging sides and color. It's too bad that Subaru getting away with making performance cars. But this car is the road torpedo.
2021 M2Comp DCT? Or New 2024 Supra 3.0 Premium with ZF8?
M2C for daily. Supra for track. But they're close
this compared to e92 m3 with DCT?
No comparison. The m2 cs is just tiers above it
I would say it depends on your driving abilities. For most, the M2C is plenty.
I feel like youre just reviewing all the cars you potentially want to buy after selling your NSX 😂 GT4, M2CS. 991 911? Emira?
Hello mate, please stop parking those cars in the mud and putting mud on the floor mat and pedals. Have a good day.
How about comparing to a GT500? A base Shelby is about the same price as the M2 CS. Both DCT.
It looks 30k better for sure
My car 😍
Where is the cute girl in the S2000 reaction video?
Meh. I'd rather take the C8 over the M2CS.
Absolutely stunning car, but sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
Meh. A Camaro SS 1le takes it for me.
Turbo lag, lousy steering, sadly no it doesn't compete with the 4L 718 Cayman.
Lol the Cayman sucks bro
All modern BMWs are a waste of money and the poster children for depreciation. A car for the unsophisticated that can't discern torque from power.
M2 competition sound better than M2 cs, M2 competition height is lower than m2 cs......
方向盘看着真性感