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Forgive for the third comment, I just want to say that you are doing a great job exposing my thoughts and daily introspection about my condition in relation to my family.
My mom just can't stand to hear me talk about anything that interests me. My job is to react to HER conversation. When my turn comes, I get about 45 seconds and then she cuts me off and redirects the conversation back to something that interests her. Every single time.
That would be both of my parents, but when 2018 rolled around, my mother left me stunned. My family had a hell of a year. Literally almost a dozen friends and family died, one person had shoulder surgery a week before we realized we were going to have to drive cross-country for one of those funerals, and two people lost their jobs. I sent my mother an email saying that the next time she visited, I really needed time to talk. We sat down together and she started talking about how awful it was that they’d had a major repair that cost $10,000. I was literally struck dumb. A _repair_? Holy Saint Francis on a polka dot mule. She’s been trying to get me enmeshed for years, and stepped up her efforts when my father died. I'm having none of it, and cut her back to text and email only. I have boundaries like the Grand Canyon and ignore any communication that crosses those boundaries. She has decided that's because I am manic and refuse to get help. I have bipolar disorder, I am most definitely not manic, and I've been under the care of a psychiatrist and in therapy for two decades to make sure it stays that way. The person who is refusing to admit they have a problem and need help is looking out of her mirror, not mine.
@@rosed7060 Looking ,back and realizing that when your a terminal patient as a child and mom doesn't hug you, tell you a bedtime story or comfort you then it's a bad sign. I did survive the brain swelling inflammation but it made me pick a sincere loving wife. lol
Yep. Throughout my life, friends have questioned me, truly puzzled, about why I don't just blow my own horn and use my abilities freely. They say that it just doesn't make sense, as though something is always holding me back. They see no reason why that should be. (I avoid talking about my past.) Meanwhile, I always feel that I am just treading water, despite successes.
You put that so well. Just reading those words gave me some comfort, knowing there are others who know this kind of struggle that seems to last a lifetime (hopefully it will not, though 🍀).
Perfect description for my parents! And they expected me to be way better than that. And when I tried to be better, they accused me of being stuck up. Total catch-22. No-win situation with these people. Only solution is almost no contact.
I didn't unravel it until I found out what narcissism is in my early 30's. My parents nearly destroyed me by age 30, but I bounced back after getting away from them. I realize now in my 40's how screwed I would have been if I had followed all their advice. I'd probably be either homeless, dead or in prison if I had followed their advice.
When one door is closed, another is open. If you feel such a deep resounding empathy, find a way to serve God using that skill, it will serve you well.
I often say I walk around and live with a certain amount of rage that never really goes away. It's always there under the surface. People have no idea how hard it can be to control my reactions to foolishness.
I think the lesson - and the shock - is to realise quite how much they can hate you, if you are the one who stands up to them. Often you only discover this through others. They will pretend not to, because they are ashamed of hating their own kids, but don't underestimate that loathing. No contact is absolutely the way forward, because you can never have an honest relationship with them.
When my parents found themselves in trouble, I was the child they called upon. Otherwise, it seemed I was one of Mom's favorite pin cushions. She *_LOVED_* drama. When Dad was murdered, our mother placed the task of pursuing justice squarely in my hands. I wanted a capital charge but, due to the circumstances, agreed with the prosecutor's determination for a felony charge to make sure the killer spent time in prison. I developed the argument for murder, which the prosecutor used to unprecedented success! Following the sentencing, family and friends met with the prosecuting team to discuss the coming decades, what to expect with such an unprecedented case and conviction. Then the prosecutor made a horrible mistake: she praised me, encouraged me to run for public office! Immediately and repeatedly, Mom stood up and yelled, "It doesn't matter what (my son) said in there, he doesn't represent the family!" This pretty much sums up life with my parents. I could have healed the earth and hung the moon, but somehow Mom would find a way to envy, denigrate, marginalize, destroy, I finally walked away.
Anytime I succeeded (example, i got into college at 16) my 2 sisters fought me, but u fought them back and then they will run and tell everyone that I was the problem
@@singstreetcar5881 Yep. That is making you the "scape goat." Instead of celebrating you and your achievements; you are belittled because they feel bad about themselves. As children we are hurt and confused. When we begin to heal; we realize that their behavior was inappropriate.
My narcissist mother looked me over upon my arrival once and critical of my grooming as ever said " Those aren't Your eyebrows." I was feeling good that day so I simply said " And they're not yours either."...ya gotta laugh when you can.
OMG, my mother was obsessing my teeth. Everytime she saw me she woukd say "show me your theeth", then go on to take the credit for my nice teeth, how much they cost her etc, yet I've been paying for my dental care for 40 years now. My dad is the same, he qas looking at a photo of me and said "your teeth are nice, I paid for them". Wasn't that that made me react, but it starts the build up.
A very valid problem that we strugggle with. We did not ask to be born from these narcissistic parents, but we have to live with the scars.And be careful how to react in situations where our buttons get pushed at times.
The System/Society is also at fault too. One thing I've learned from my experiences, growing up in the 90s, having been born with Aspergers, both of my birth parents were cluster Bs, is that the System will judge the child based off how the parents see him or her. Especially moreso if the child was born with a disability. I remember being 4 years old, having to watch my birth father try to kill my birth mother. I cried everyday in kindergarten class, and my teacher ridiculed me in front of my peers. Once she encouraged them to ignore me by handing out candy, saying "thank you for ignoring (Nocturne's real name here), good job!". So many abused kids hate the System as adults. The System failed them, so can you blame them?
@@David-eu1msThy are victimizers too and often use their kids as leverage. Modern American modern culture is mentally ill and still condones male child genitals multilitions as birth. I don't want to hear bad parents excuses for their bad behaviors, nobody is entitled to kids, this toxic narc parents id you want to call them that, are not parents and are evil. I call this stuff out of the time and my bit*ch of a mother hates for me. I will happy when she is gone. I would rather be alone in a leaky, shole shack with no running water than around narcissistic wahmen abusers After the last 3 years with the jab grift and nurses being tryant abusers and people in healthcare I could care less what people think of me. Also abusive narc step"Dad's* are far more common than society says they are. More children of covert narc abusers parents should grow up to rent them and I learned don't ever lift a finger to help them, because they won't ever be appreciative or thankful. F em. I wish I had never known my so called mother..
@@nocturne6548Of course we should blame them, i know parents who are opposite from society and system " standards and norms ". People with that parents are mostly positive independent adult people now. Its easy to blame system and society for everything, lets face it that some of us had narcissistic monsters who ruined and affected our adult and whole life.
Ok this is my first trip to Disney World. Great place to people watch. I am appalled at 80% of the parents I observed. Absolutely appalled. No discipline for parents or children. Kids walking around obviously not bathed, unbrushed hair and teeth, wearing dirty clothes, some in flip flops, keeping them up past 9:00 Kids crying , screaming, out of pain, being scared on rides, siblings fighting and the parents completely oblivious!!!! It is really disheartening. Sloppy , extremely overweight, parents in a daze as children almost get lost behind them. Rarely am I observing good parenting skills. Most of these parents should never be parents.
1. Telling me what I think....not asking. 2. Accusing ..not asking what happened. 3.Shaming children for not meeting their expectations...no matter how inappropriate their expectations are. 4. Lying about events. 5. Getting angry when you ask them what happened or what they think. 6. Blowing up on a rage when you state a feeling that you have 7. The silent treatment. 8. Never discussing problems or solutions. Just sweep them under a rug and acting like everything is fine, then they come at you with passive aggressive digs. 9. Not respecting boundaries. Reading your mail, email, diary. 10. Pitting people against each other in triangulation.
Wow! All of what you said is my reality. It is so creepy. 🤦♀️ some of these issues just scream at me! #8 took me a minute to figure out what the hell that was about. I HATE the fake niceness, or sweetness after they RAGE. Acting like nothing ever happened. Just LA LA LA LA. I'd be frozen. My mother says stupid crap like: you must have made me angry that's why I said that or did this. Or when renigging on something she said she'd do that was detrimental to my well being or a need that she's entitled to change her mind, and to say abusive things because SHE was pissed😮
Caring for myself.. Something that I have noticed in many different instances is that as I get healthy the unhealthy start resisting me.. One example was when I was in a yoga class.. As the class started growing and as I got stronger and more flexible I noticed how the vast majority of the class was against me.. I made sure that I talked to the instructor and that I could have my mat close to her.. When others started pushing my mat around and encroaching my space I talked to a retired State Trooper and a semi retired DNR Warden.. They said just come back by us and I said that the instructor was the authority in the class.. They understood that.. When the instructor did not have my back I knew it was time to leave..
Learning to tolerate abuse isn't weird. It's a survival skill. The trouble is that it's a survival skill for a trapped child or an abused adult, but our brains don't have any good way of recognizing that we're safe and need to take it offline. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm a little short on functional skills to use instead, too.
@darinsmith2458 Interesting that you put it that way. I get an adrenaline spike when I'm being angry inside my mind - when my ruminations are angry and I'm triggered. Sometimes it’s hard to let go of that. I want more. I wonder if that is because "safety" was when I started screaming back.
The lack of validation in childhood hit so hard. As a kid all I got from my parents were scoldings & spankings for small non-malicious mistakes, criticisms, comparisons to others. Even while other adults (uncles, aunts, family friends) praised and genuinely liked me - which likely helped why some of my self-esteem is intact unlike my siblings'. I started excelling in high school. But their expressions towards my achievements were either about themselves ("she got it from me"), or "why u not the valedictorian". I have talents like singing & playing instruments. When others tell my dad about it, he says "huh I didn't know she can". I'm holding a high position at work and I'm told "why u not the CEO, u should quit". I am never good enough. It's so weird to be genuinely appreciated by non-family but not by your own parents, esp father.
Sounds like we grew up in the same environment. We were always criticized and compared to others, including our cousins. If I didn't make national honor society in high school, I was scolded, but when I did, it was ignored. My younger sister was totally idolized. My mother would go to all of her basketball games but never once took half a day to see my track meets. Or barely showed up to my concert events. My sister would be in the paper with small articles and my mother bought a book to put all the clips of articles. I made the paper and she barely even acknowledged it. When my older sister left for college, my mother cried. When I left, nothing. And she was quite sad when my younger sister left. In my 20's, when I would come home to visit, my mother would have no qualms to tell me that I had nothing to show for myself. Even now, at my age, I am still criticized. Still not good enough. Now, I'm compared to my sisters and my father even asked my older sister if I was jealous of my younger sister. I haven't talked to any of them since July. It saddens me quite often, but there is only so much criticism that you can take before it becomes too overwhelming.
As I was growing up, I realized as an adult I would never want to be dependent on my narcissistic mother. Long story short, I studied hard and excelled all through high school, but she did not come to my high school graduation. Then I had five very difficult years at university, but I did very well. After the university graduation ceremony in the reception area, all of us mingled and congratulated each other. But my mother demanded I take off my graduation cap and gown so that she could wear them. She put them on and told me -- the university graduate -- to stand next to her as she posed for photographs, because this was "her graduation too" because "she was the mother". Throughout my life before she passed away, she robbed me of all that was mine, or else she destroyed it, or dismissed it as unimportant, and if she couldn't do that, she used gossip to reinvent history to conform to her alternate reality in which she was not the brightest star in the sky, but the only star in the sky.
Often when I was given a gift I was then told I didn’t deserve it but they were giving it to me anyway. If I got help on a school project then received a good grade I was told I didn’t deserve the grade because I got help.
I was made deputy head of my school, my friend Gina was made a prefect - she got a bike for the honour, I got "Humph, why weren't you head girl?" It was always the same - I got a first class degree, my mother tried to monopolise the entire proceedings and ruin my graduation ceremony.....and yes, I got my talent "from her". I too was constantly compared, negatively, to others; I used to joke, as a teenager, that the words on my headstone would read "She wasn't good enough". Wasn't really a joke now was it? It's taken a lifetime of struggle to have any semblance of self esteem.
The same. Nothing was ever good enough. Ever. Perfection (lightning in a bottle anyway) was met with "why can't you do that all the time", And yelling hitting. I went in the military. When I came back, as an adult, it changed. I found out in MY case, getting angry worked. "Go ahead, but now I hit back" worked. Interesting. Seeing what IS normal was a necessary step for me. And to steal from American Gods, "angry gets shit done" ... sometimes.
The anger my narc grandmother expressed to other family members when I stayed calm constantly was insane. I knew her game after dad died so I stayed calm and happy. And she ran around town screaming “he doesn’t love me” because I wasn’t anxious as hell around everything she said. She wanted obedience and me to be scared into action. That’s love to her.
That’s love to her. I feel the same about my mother. She motivates me with fear and when it does not work she feels rejected. It is a sickness and distortion. Thanks for your comment. It gave me a new insight. 😊
One thing, in particular, of what you said, rang my bell. My mother had this sudden outburst of anger towards me. And it was kind of shocking, not because I feared her phisically, but because they were so unpredictable and also disproportionate. Most of the time for little things or nothing
I had to leave school at 16 even though I wanted to stay. I knew then something is really wrong here, what parent doesn't want their child to get good education. I was expected to get a job any job regardless of whether I liked it, regardless of whether I was being underpaid or expected to do overtime and not get paid a cent, regardless if I was being bullied, the consensus was to just stay there forever and never leave until retirement. When I did leave to get a better paying job closer to home I ended up getting the narcissistic rage with him yelling at me at the top of his lungs at 7am in the morning waking up the entire neighbourhood. Same as wanting to travel overseas, that was met with yelling and screaming also, these people are nuts.
My mother checks all of the boxes here, but the one that resonates the most with me is the intrusiveness, lack of boundaries, never being allowed to have my own PRIVACY! She was forever barging into our rooms, even well into adolescence, when teenagers really begin to NEED their own privacy. She'd barge right in when when we were just out of the shower and getting dressed...she'd eavesdrop on the extension telephone, she'd snoop through my diary and everything personal to me. As a teenage boy, well...I NEEDED my privacy once those hormones kick into full gear and my thoughts were mostly sexual, if you catch my drift. It is a normal behavior, but I was ostracized after she barged in on me once and horrifically embarrassed and humiliated me, so...I put a lock on my bedroom door, which only got my door kicked in by her whenever she tried to just breeze right into my room. I was afforded absolutely NO PRIVACY, which always struck me as just, well...SICK.
My mother used to go through all my things when I was at school. She'd take things from me. Then one day I found the motherload of doodles/sketches she had stolen and hidden away. And then I married a man that did the same. What the hell is wrong with these people? Invasiveness and intrusiveness. Sick people.
These sound like the hallmarks of a BPD mom together with paranoia about everything (especially about you using drugs) and her trying to steal your friends.
One thing I noticed about me, is that disrespect is hard to process. I blew up at a coworker (a male) in an incident where he was being disrespectful. Our senior coworker got involved and she, sided with him…she turned her back to me, not willing to know why I was upset at him. My reaction, was over the top and as I analyzed it over the next few days …pealing back the onion…I came to know why I’d overreacted. It was food for thought as I went forward…but the damage was done. My coworkers thought of me as nutty. As a kid, there was NO respect for kids in our home. We, were not even people….i honestly don’t know how my parents saw us. Our mother who is the narcissist saw me as the one who handled all her responsibilities and I now understand as her supply 😔💔. So when coworker was disrespectful to me I responded as I wanted to but couldn’t, as a child. Live and learn. Thank you for your work…it’s helping so many people ❤️.
It's tough to self-reflect and realise that the damage done to you has caused you then to become a problem in certain situations. Good on you for recognising when you do wrong - it's something that narcissists are unable to do. Solid sign of recovery from the learned childhood responses.
I can barely handle disrespect. It's a thing with me. My stepfather was a narcissist and so was my ex-husband. I can't tolerate anymore disrespect, lies, or being ignored or blown off. I just want the rage to go away.
@@arielmarbury467 The world is a minefield of triggers for us scapegoats because people are so selfish and self-absorbed, and it all just feels like the straw that broke the camels back. I can understand how it must be so much easier to just shrug off bad behavior from people if you grew up feeling seen, heard and respected as a child, there is this foundation of self-assured security that is largely missing from the scapegoated personality.
I think you reacted normally. Society do not like it when you are your best advocate. I think if you keep reacting to the same person is when you became highly reactive and that is not good. But I don’t get how you think you defending yourself against disrespecting was bad? For the coworker to side with him and not know what happened is a sign to you to stay away from that coworker. Since you got the sign there is no reason for you in the future to react to him/her since she or he has shown you their hand.
Sometimes I have to take a break from these videos because they can be triggering for me and I will binge watch for a while, then step back to process things for a while and listen to pretty music. I really appreciate you, Mr. Jerry. You have been a blessing to me. I hope you have time to take a break from this subject sometimes and I hope you have someone to talk to. Thank you. 🕊️
Same. Sometimes I doubt if they serve me because I feel retraumatised whenever I start bingewatching again. On the other hand with all the gaslighting abd selfdoubt it's a relief to have our experience acknowledged and the sick dynamic explained. Now I focus on the videos which offer solutions, ways to detach and gray rock.
I assisted many bovine, cows,live births. If the first birth of a young, first calf heifer was difficult, nine times out of ten the young mother cow walks away, disowning the new born calf. I was the fourth child of a young 20 year old mother, a twin, born 3 and 1/2 hours after my sister. I remember as a seventh grader while alone standing in our kitchen asking that young heifer, mom, if I was adopted. While growing up, referring to me in conversation with my narc dad, I was, "That dammed kid!" When this "narc" information finally made it to my ears at age 59, 8 years ago, that I had two narcissistic parents, I called her out on it, I asked her why did I stutter growing up mom? Her answer, "Showing off" and why did I pee the bed until my senior year mom? She answered, "Lots of kids do." 8 years now with no contact, even when they tried contacting me to let me know that their golden girl child had suddenly died, at age 65. That was after she was on over three years of silent treatment geared towards me.... from being seated at mom and dad's gossip table with my twin sister who not only had s broken marriage, but lost her youngest to suicide at age 14 and her oldest to drug addiction...of course I didn't attend services... Looking back I had SO many clues while growing up in that perfectly normal dysfunctional family, normalizing abnormal behavior..... Growing up and into my adult years I do remember deliberately, NOT acting like my dad! Every one of us siblings had a broken marriage and addictions associated with them., Including me. . My adult children have no addictions and have families, careers, and no broken marriages.!!! But I am over 15 years recovering alcoholic.. and doing awesome... Thank you GOD!!
My older narc brother, used to call me the 'milk man's' child, or my mother's child. Never just me. The odd thing is 23 and Me, showed me I have a 'half sister'. All of my mother's pregnancies are accounted for. So unless, my father is not my biological dad, or my dad had fling. I can't help but think I don't know who my father is.
I can't believe it! The more you go into details the more I realise how much damage I received from my mother. And in some ways I'm happy to do this sort of coming out, cos it's liberating, finally I understand a lot of what's happened to me, but in other ways it is embarrassing. Well, if this is the price to pay, I will accept it. Psychological freedom is absolute priority
I feel the exact same way-like I am liberated that the pieces of the puzzle are finally coming together but there is a sense of embarrassment behind it all.
It's so good to know we are not alone. People, friends in trauma here, it's good to know there are others here who really get you and me without judgment or getting brushed off, or dumped. Thank you, Dr Jerry! I have never had this in my life. Even when previously in therapy.
I think we feel embarrassed as we still assume we were responsible. Parentified children have this as a default reaction to nearly anything: either they are the cause or they should at least bring about the solution. If you are not cared for, protected, you inevitably self parentify. That's what comes to my mind as I try to figure out where this insidious shame comes from.
My sister is a narcissist and a pathological liar. It's odd to see her in action. She recently wrote an email that was about half a page long. Every sentence was either an outright lie, gaslighting, or twisting something. She also tried to bait me and my mom and was cruel, offered no help in a situation where help was very much needed, and then tried to tell everyone what to do. Masterclass in "crazy".
Their behavior is now predictable to me. I still resent the illusion offered that I have freedom around them. The pretense is that I have freedom, but its like a funnel with no outlet and a fake light at the end.
Oh god - the perpetual haircut conversation. It seems so innocent doesn't it? They say "When are you going to get a haircut?" Then when I mention the difficulties I have with hair thinning, which is part of the reason why I haven't had it cut for a while, they tell me there's nothing wrong with my hair and that I'm being over-reactive about it. Then the very next time I see them, they say it again "When are you going to get a haircut?". Or "I have a hairdresser coming over in a few weeks, would you like me to book you in?" I remember my mum was always this way since I was young - if my hair was up, she liked it down. When my hair was down, she made constant suggestions about putting it up. The never ending game you can't win. Because if you react - they punish you, or gaslight you, or ridicule you. And if you don't react - you feel like crap.
OMG…my mother has AN OBSESSION WITH THE LENGTH OF MY HAIR..WTF…I’m 72 she’s 95…..she wears her hair short like a man…has thick hair and when she needs a haircut….theres a whole freakin discussion about. How bushy it is, and it has no shape….I don’t give a crap about her hair….,then she tells me to “pull it away from my face”…or it looks like a mop. Or isn’t it time for you to get a hair cut….i always wanted to say..” I don’t like men’s haircuts on women, but I kept my mouth shut because who wants to enrage a freakin narcissist….?!?!?….but Her comments about my hair were equally to her saying that I. Ugly and don’t look nice…. So I avoided being with her to preserve myself and my emotions….only to have her comment that I don’t come over enough…freakin’ crazy bitch!
I sense the high level of reactvity in me. When someone says something that comes across like something my mother would have said, I can feel something click inside me. I am aware of it and I stop and reflect on it. I don't lash out at the person, but I allow more space to enter between us and am less inclined to spend time around that person.
This style of parenting is truly tragic for the child. I grew up in a narcissistic family. My dad and his 2nd & 3rd wives caused so much damage to my brother, sisters & I. One of us is a grandiose narcissist (golden child) who believes she is better than everyone, my brother is withdrawn like myself and our other sister died from complications of a suicide attempt many years ago. The damage has been done. Speaking of boundaries in narcissistic families, I had a grandmother who would ask very very personal questions about my sex life with my husband. She would do this at the dinner table with just her, my grandpa & myself. She wanted a conversation on how fulfilled I was with my sex life with my husband! It made me so angry! But if I dared say anything reprimanding to her she would play the victim and I would be the terrible granddaughter! Also my dad’s 3rd wife would barge into my bedroom as a teenager when I wasn’t dressed. She would go through my things and take whatever she wanted. This woman wasn’t even related to me! My dad just allowed it. Same dad who molested me, physically, emotionally & verbally abused me. When I married someone the family didn’t approve of, the whole family set out to destroy my marriage! These same people left me for dead for over a decade when I finally stood up to the abuse. I was smeared to sundry and lost all my family relationships. Sound like a narcissistic family???
Ufff, I was reading your story and it sounds very tragic and exhausting. How do you feel now? How would you describe your journey once you decided to leave? How did your family responded? My story is somehow similar, yet different. I could never disect my experience as clear as Jerry would do, BUT... here we go: My parents had a 30'ish year old marriage. Our family was the classical magazine "perfect nuclear family": 5 kids, best private schools & college, big house in a fancy neighborhood (you get the idea). Imagine 5 kids, standing one next to the other, with matching classy outfits, all of them with a wide fake smile, standing in front of the imperial house entry for a family portrait. Both parents behind us all, holding our necks to prevent us from moving, correcting our postures and shooshing us while the cameraman did his job... After 20 identical but exhausting pictures, our family was ready to send a signal to the world that we were better than them all. For everyone else our family was perfect. But looks may be deceiving. Behind those gorgeous pictures and fancy house, my siblings and I had to survive to very complicated and abusive parents. We learned that there was no space for our feelings, no space for our deep thoughts, nor our beliefs, talents, nor individuality. No space at all in a 300 m² mansion. Crazy. "Shush Benjamin!! Your father is trying to sleep!!... Why would you do that to your own father? Are you trying to make your father tired? Do you want him to loose his job? If your father looses his job it will be because of you!! Because you always make him exhausted from all of your noise. From all of my kids, you are the worse. You are a bad son and always been. Go! Go to your bed!... And do not make any noise! Then, 8 year old Benjamin went quietly to his bedroom... alone. ------------------------- My mother died from cancer when she was 58. She was a heavy narcissistic abusive + had hysteria disorder. When I remember her, the vietnam flashbacks start flooding my memories lol. Shes was very difficult, energy draining women. For me it started when I was 8 years old, out of nowhere, she grabed me and insulted me intensely, shouting at my face how I ruined her. I wont bore you with how manipulative she was, how she cryied to get her way, or how she trash talked everyone that surrounded her, including her own family. But, after she died, I realized that my father was even worse!!! I could never tell about my father until my mother left, because when my mother was alive, she was the one who controlled everyone and everything, even my father. But now that shes gone, ufff, she released the kraken (my father) I started doing therapy when I was 19 when I came out of the closet due to the damaging response from my parents (a gay son: a very unfavorable scenario for a family that heavily depended on their image 😅). Now im 29!! Its been a long journey discovering and disecting my parents 'parenting'. After my father gaved me the cold sholder for coming out of the closet + the cold sholder my father gaved my older sibling when he was getting a very complicated divorce, I decided that we will never be enough for them.. 2 months from now im leaving my country. Im moving out to Europe.. very far away from my family.
How horrible. I do hope you are doing better. 2,000 miles helped a lot for me. But I'm now 74, and still working on it. Life gets better. But I've never found it easy.
Omg... im 29. And my father is 63..... 2 months from now I will be moving out to Europe to distance from my narcissitic abusive father. I cannot believe how can you tolerate your mother for so long!! 😅
Long story! Wanted my kids to have a grandma! THAT didn’t turn out too well tho😢. Good for you! I wish I would have moved AND stayed away! Seriously! I just kept hoping. Good moments sometimes, but not worth it in the long run! Too much damage done!
Long story! Wanted my kids to have a grandma! THAT didn’t turn out too well tho😢. Good for you! I wish I would have moved AND stayed away! Seriously! I just kept hoping. Good moments sometimes, but not worth it in the long run! Too much damage done!
Long story! Wanted my kids to have a grandma! THAT didn’t turn out too well tho😢. Good for you! I wish I would have moved AND stayed away! Seriously! I just kept hoping. Good moments sometimes, but not worth it in the long run! Too much damage done!
Long story! Wanted my kids to have a grandma! THAT didn’t turn out too well tho😢. Good for you! I wish I would have moved AND stayed away! Seriously! I just kept hoping. Good moments sometimes, but not worth it in the long run! Too much damage done!
Yep. Both of my parents are highly reactive. My narcissistic father and perfectionist mother have made me into quite the mess. My trauma turned into chronic anxiety, then severe depression, and then finally panic attacks by my senior year of high school. I've repeatedly gotten into relationships with controlling, emotionally withholding, narcissistic partners. This last partner who just broke up with me is the last straw. I have a lot of work to do. I'm not dating anyone until I heal my trauma and fully love myself. I've learned a lot. But still have so far to go. Thank you for your video, it helps explain a lot.
Codependency is a tricky thing for me, because I have lived with a NARC for 31 years and he would take control of EVERYTHING in my life, he gradually took over my life to the point where I wasn't allowed to do anything without his permission. I couldn't go out on my own; gradually I didn't know what I could do until I ran away, and now I'm realising what he did to me, plus my mother is a NARC and my earliest memory was in the doctors surgery; I can't remember how old I was but the doctor was asking me questions, but mother kept answering for me, untill the doctor told mum to be quiet; I felt panicky because Mum always spoke for me. On the way home I could FEEL her anger at me even though she didn't say a word, I was terrified of her anger because she would set another sibling on me; she would take turns to have a favourite.
I'm glad these kind of videos are out there. It's so isolating to be in these kind of dysfunctional families. Just gut wrenching, unhealthy things going on behind the scenes and no one in the family is going to talk about it. Heaven forbid. Every single person in my immediate family, there are four other including parents, are highly toxic to me. I sometimes wonder how I wound up in same family, they seem so different than me. Anyway, I feel better when I don't interact with them at all. And then the challenge if finding kind, healthy people to interact with and finding intimacy because good luck finding a healthy, intimate relationship when you come from a family like this. Thank you Mr. Wise.
My mother has invalidated my traumatic childhood by saying “I tried to protect you the whole time.” I was proud when I responded, “what you don’t understand is that I tried to protect you by not expressing my feelings.”
After twelve years, I had yo comeback to my mother's house because I lost my job and can't pay the rent anymore, i'm 37 years old, everydays she reminds me that is her house so her rules and if I dont like it i am free to leave, she is so intrusive she asked me for every questions you mention in the video and more, I always had problems in trust people, my older sister has anxiety, depression and tried to suicide two times, now as an adult and all the information in videos like this I can understand better, I'm a broken adult but trying to fix it. Im trying so hard to let go the anger and reactivity and trying to trust more in people, it's difficult. Thank you for those videos, it helps to see I am not alone. Cheers up everybody in comment section
Please try to not allow this to distract you from your priority: you, getting employment and moving away into your own sanctuary. You may enter a loop that is hard to get out of otherwise and literally years will pass. You can do this!
I suggest you get any job you can and find a way to live elsewhere, e.g. with roommates . Do what you would do if you didn't have parents to fall back on.
Ok this may sound mean...first I will tell u Iam 62... if you can not move into any normal place... Go apply for public housing..... GET OUT OF THAT HOUSE... NOW IF NOT most likely u will regret it. I know, I should have. Love, Peace to U.
Don’t feel badly that you feel that hate. Accept that you are not ready to give up your hate yet. Maybe you can ask, “If I gave up hating them, what would be the downsides?”
U r not the only one. I hate my narcissistic mom and my alcoholic dad. I hate my lazy grandma and my mom's siblings. They r not nice people at all. I grew up in the big family of my mom's side. Terrible 😢
I had to stop watching halfway through. This rings so true to my life. The challenge is how to NOT pass it on to the next generation. I do NOT want my kids to be messed up like I was.
if i ever borrowed something of my moms and put it back but she couldnt find it, shed accuse me of stealing it, yet whenever she lost something she'd say the devil is hiding it from her. one day i confronted her about it and she had nothing to say. "Why do you always accuse me of stealing yet when you lose something i dont accuse you, and you blame the devil? How come the devil only hides things when you lose it?"
No: 7 - threatened with the 'orphanage' innumerable times. This was after she got rid of my father, relatives, extended family relatives 🤨 Didnt know what an orphanage was back then.
My father was put in an orphanage for a few years by his mother so she could party after my grandfather died. He took me and my brother there one time At Homecoming and said we’d better be good, because that’s where bad kids go to live.
This video is so accurate. I've experienced most of these in my family. One thing my golden child brother does which always throws me off is he rarely asks me anything about my life when he's back visiting, yet we're all expected to be interested in his. Once I pointed it out and my mum said "well we live with you so we know what you're doing" which I thought was such an awful thing for her to say to me. I find myself volunteering information because I'm so confused and disorientated why nobody is asking about what I've been up to, my family looks rather disinterested and eventually my brother would always suddenly go silent mid conversation or even leave the house and drive home. I never understood why he wasn't interested in what I was doing because I was always genuinely interested in his life and well-being. This dynamic has always made me feel rubbish and less than in my family.
Regarding 9. Forming healthy relationships : there's the relationship they have with you, but also how they behave with others and how they react to your own relationships with others. And it's all messed up. In my experience, narcissistic parents neither model nor teach good social skills... which is a huge source of social anxiety, both during childhood and brought on into adulthood... which helps not at all to go calmly through life!
A lack of Emotional Validation. Thats right. I am also reactive in situations which recall the abusive mothers behaviors. F. ex with negative people who put emphases on criticizing. also people who choose the path of devaluating others instead of selfgrowth, who do not try to be fair. And it does not matter its towards me or others.
I feel, after spending a lot of time listening to Jerry Wise, it is time to comment, share my thoughts on his website. There are a lot of sites I have tuned into on the subject Narcissistic Parental Abuse, I have spent time learning from. There are two people, I don't want to name names (Ok the other is Dr Ramani but I feel a bit cheeky mentioning another on Jerry Wises site) Jerry Wise who are outstanding in their knowledge of this subject. Jerry, being a male, is so so spot on, I don't know how to thank him enough for what he has done for me, so clearly, it's been amazingly insightful and has lifted tonnes of weight from my shoulders, calmed me, reassuring me with such a positive understanding, like nothing else I have had in my life. Thank you Sir, you have cleared away my confusion with your work ❤.
I moved back home 6 years ago. When I moved, I rented, as we didn't have time to look for a house before we left. Unfortunately, the area we moved to is more expensive and then the housing went nuts. People were offering 100k over asking price. We looked and looked but had such a hard time. For 4 years we went through this. Meanwhile, my parents were giving me crap about still renting and why we hadn't bought a house. We finally bought one a year ago. In the same town we were renting. Which we were lucky to have found. But it needs some TLC. We knew that going in, but everything we looked at needed TLC and they were asking crazy pricing. Instead of my parents actually being happy we finally were able to find a house to buy, I got crap because it needs work, blah, blah, blah and then my father came out and said, I don't think you are ever going to do it. Never once have they been supportive and said good job. And when I went to go visit, I would get questions on when was I going to do the driveway, and the kitchen, and the bathrooms and that's going to cost me 70k to fix up the house, etc. I'm not asking them for money to fix it up, so what is their problem? Not like they come to visit anyways.
Lived through this pain my whole life! It explains why i have a fear of clingy ppl! I could never get away from their control and didn’t know why! I now know! 😊
This explains why during my first date with my exhusband and he acted out with an outburst of anger over nothing I didn’t leave then and there and never went back! Instead I sat back down and got involved in his insanity. I regretted it deeply and it cost me a lot. I’m surprised that I survived it!
00:24 🚦 Growing up with narcissistic parents can lead to heightened emotional reactivity as adults, even if we don't mirror their specific behaviors. 01:29 🛑 Emotional validation is crucial; lacking it in childhood can disable our ability to self-validate as adults. 02:26 🎢 Inconsistent and unpredictable behavior from narcissistic parents can lead to hypervigilance in adult relationships, eroding our trust in others. 03:35 💔 Narcissistic parents often demand perfection but provide excessive criticism, fostering a fear of mistakes and inhibiting trying new things. 05:26 🕰 Gaslighting and manipulation from parents can distort our perceptions, leading to self-doubt and a lack of self-trust. 06:47 🤝 Narcissistic parents encourage codependency, often prioritizing others' needs over our own, hindering self-discovery and true self-care. 08:22 🚧 Enmeshment disregards personal boundaries, causing intrusion and emotional entanglement, hindering individuality. 10:23 ☔ Narcissistic parents may induce fear of abandonment, making us highly reactive to any perceived threat to relationships. 11:56 🔄 Role reversal in narcissistic families can lead to overly caretaking behaviors and heightened reactivity to others' emotions. 12:37 🧠 Growing up with a narcissistic parent can result in an overactive amygdala, impacting emotional responses throughout life. 13:17 ⚙ Family anxiety and reactivity tend to perpetuate through generations, influencing our coping mechanisms and emotional responses. 13:44 🔄 Intergenerational trauma, stemming from narcissistic abuse, can persist and affect subsequent generations. 14:22 🛠 Growing up in environments lacking self-regulation, typical in narcissistic households, can hinder our ability to self-regulate as adults.
@dameanvil THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THESE DETAIL NOTES. IT IS EXTREMELY HELPFUL TO READ. I THINK I AM GOING TO COPY THEM TO HAVE AS A REFERENCE FOR MYSELF. THANK YOU!!
100% relatable. Thank you for explaining these things, it wasn't until 8 years ago I realized the low level unease I felt constantly was anxiety. Your videos help me make sense of this.
Jerry, it's like you were there! All the points you make apply to our mother, and some to our father as he enabled her so that he wouldn't be her primary target. I finally walked away at age 46, about 2-1/2 years after Dad was killed, as Mom kept seeking supply at the expense of her children, especially us scapegoats. At the time I chalked her problem up to envy, as she constantly compared her lot to everyone else's and reliably cast herself as the world's greatest superlative, or as the world's biggest victim. Even as she lay dying, given COVID by her golden child, she was still seeking supply, still pretending her problems were the fault of everyone else.
Thanks for your incredible work. My parents fought every day. I'm in my 60's and realized I don't miss them. I was left on my own at 15-16. They signed me over to marry my boyfriend so I wouldn't be living in sin. I look back, since I'm in my 60's and I realize they had deep personal issues. I was a survivor and got an education and degree. I went through a horrible situation. I have done my self-care and learned a lot. I hope those in my situation never give up. You are doing a great service.
Excellent video. Does anyone keep a journal? My problem is that I keep thinking my narc mother will change so I let my guard down over and over. I know she baits me, but I still get caught off guard when things *seem* harmonious. I need the journal as a reminder of how she treats me over and over. That roller coaster really describes my relationship with her. I'm definitely better at grey rock around her, but I have a hopeful part of me that still gets blindsided if I let my guard down.
I have filled almost seven journals in the past few years since I’ve realized what family scapegoating is. When my father first got custody of my siblings and I my journal was taken away from me and I was given the silent treatment for several months. I was already so traumatized from being taken from my mom by surprise one day at school.
That is tricky since what happened to us was so unnatural that a part of us deep down still can't believe it. It slowly gets better over time. Even if you don't keep a journal you can copy and paste the points in various videos that especially spoke to you. Keep them all on a page and read them before the next visit with your mother. Another is to have a subscription to the most relevant channels and watch them every week or so. And of course if you can, try to see or talk to your mother less often.
@@lesliegann2737I agree! It isn't natural at all to be treated so poorly by those who are supposed to be protecting us (in childhood) ... and only natural to expect that they be supportive people in our lives when we're older. Thank you for the great tips. I'm hoping the journal will allow me to accept the reality of the pattern. I do need to keep my distance more, too. Crazy as it sounds, I'm thinking of putting up sticky notes around my house, "remember not to take the bait." Fortunately I live alone.
@@liana2136 I hear you. We do need our supposed family to be supportive as we get older but nada. They even get worse. Fortunately for me my parents are passed and I went no contact with my one sibling a few years ago. I was sick of not being treated with basic respect as if I'm the defective one in the family. He drank mother dearest's kool-aide. I've kept a journal of all the crazy making shit just in case he ever decided to get in contact with me again. Good luck with your situation and getting some distance!
Feeling unloved and uncared for so you spend time isolated and talking outloud to yourself to help build confidence and learn who you truly are and trying to stay far away as possible so you could figure out if your the problem or the narcissistic parent or partner 😢
Don't forget siblings, my older brother is the 'golden child' heavily parentified and never really had a healthy relationship with any woman. Ironically, you think he would look out for the younger siblings, nope. He is a super narc, any chance he gets to talk down to you he will take even though his life is a living hell. These people are very messed up and don't feel like anything is wrong with them, best to stay away. Good friends and actually knowing who I am have helped tremendously. Sending you love and strength @DeebieBoy.
the worst isn't even the narc family members. It's when your narc spouse or friends, ally up with your family members to 'outshine' you or also make you a scapegoat. It seems to confirm your doubts about yourself, and leaves you habitually afraid to 'try'. Anything that brings out the potential risk of failure, causes you to give up.
Yeah it's a terrible feeling when you realise your partner and friends don't actually like you and are trying to hurt and sabotage you. I had to leave my abusive ex and end contact with all my old friends once I realised what was happening. I have met good people since but I'm still building a support network, it takes time and effort and feels very challenging, frightening and lonely. But it's better than being around my old abusive friends and sociopathic ex.
@@FreedomAboveAll4 How do you cope with the loneliness? I spend most of my time alone now and sometimes it makes me feel like I'm dying. I used to be part of two hobby groups but they got shut down and disbanded due to funding. I also had a wonderful cat but she passed away suddenly last year. I've struggled with deep depression since then, I just try to keep going but I still spend an hour or more crying most days. I already rebuilt my life once after leaving my ex but I'm having to do it again and it's so daunting and I feel so tired. I feel like people can tell I'm traumatised and depressed because they avoid me when I really need to make new connections to rebuild my life.
@@FreedomAboveAll4 Yeah I think you're right, I'm grieving my old life and it's very painful. My life has been like yours except I volunteered with these groups two days a week and I had my beloved cat. My cat and the groups were like my family, they were genuinely good people and my cat was an angel. I'm an introvert but a sociable introvert so I've found the loneliness really difficult. I'm going to try to get a new job and then adopt another animal companion once I'm ready. Thanks for sharing your experience, it helps to talk to people honestly without having to pretend I'm happy.
@katec9893 We are very similar. For a while I've been working very hard on my healing so I'm doing better now, but I was eerily similar to you. Some of the things I did to head in a better direction... - I realized I was consumed with compulsive self-hatred, so I started treating myself with all the compassion I could manage. It was difficult at first, because narcs had trained me to feel that self-compassion was dangerous. But that difficulty was just a sign of how badly I needed self-compassion, so it became my highest priority. - I realized I had nonstop negative ruminations that were feeding my severe depression. Then I realized that listening to audiobooks threw a wrench into the ruminations. Now there is always an audio playing through my bluetooth speakers, every day. I download them free from the public library. - For years I had wanted to learn to knit so I taught myself by watching videos. Then I read about other knitters who knit shawls for friends who needed a hug, so I knit beautiful shawls for myself, to give myself a hug. I was knitting for years just for myself before I started knitting for others. (And audiobooks and knitting are perfect companions!) Next I want to take art lessons. Since you already have hobbies you like you might explore joining another hobby group. If one doesn't work for you accept that it wasn't meant to be. Take a deep breath, and then look for another; just don't give up. Check libraries, churches, volunteer organizations. And since you like cats you might consider volunteering at an animal shelter, which will also get you connected to other humans. If necessary, start slow so you don't get overwhelmed too soon. - When not listening to audiobooks I started listening to soft/soothing music. I've been streaming and downloading free music through my public library. After a few years I now have several GBs of legally free music stored on my phone, playing through my bluetooth speakers. - I bought myself a few new perfumes, which I also wear daily just around the house, just for myself. They make me smile more often. 🥰 - After a few false starts I now have a social life again with wonderful friends. I found them because of my knitting, but they are the sweetest/kindest people I've ever known. We meet for coffee and/or lunch every week. Key was learning to recognize toxic people, and learning to say "no" so I could keep a clear space for something better. - To attend to the introvert part of myself I took walks in the park alone, visited art museums alone, went to the zoo alone, watched sunsets alone. Best wishes! 💞
I never learnt how to properly express my anger. Starting from childhood , I was often told by my surprised peers that I never got angry no matter what. Well, I didn’t know how to as I was never allowed to express any feelings at home. Also, compared to what abuse went on at home, whatever my peers did couldn’t even compare. So even if the actions of my peers annoyed or angered me, I would just keep it to myself; as there were only two ways known to me for anger: either suppress it or have an explosive meltdown like that of my parents. There was no in-between. So, I chose to suppress all my feelings all the time.
I’m autistic my abusive ego maniacal step dad who was a cop has turned my entire family against me he even turned my own mom against me I’m totally alone I have no one in my life my step dad has undermined me constantly my entire life he forced me into everything he ever wanted and he called me retard stupid handicap dum he even paid people to snitch on me and to physically hurt me anytime he wanted and I finally snapped I stood up I called him out as a narcissist abusive ego maniac and now he’s turned my entire family against me
I'm so sorry. That is the worst thing anyone can do. It is absolutely evil. These people are so sick in the head it is disgusting. The fact that they get away with it is also disgusting. I think that it really shows you the truth about others by the ease they believe these liers. At least you know who they are now so you don't waste any more time thinking they are sincere. You win.
Now you know, like many others and I are learning, you can go forward and continue to be healed. I'm so sorry that you suffered. Hopefully, blessings chase you for the best happy outcomes! ❤
Threat of abandonment lasted from 14-40. I made the break a few months ago. I can't be manipulated like that anymore. It's so scary as a young girl to feel like you're about to get thrown out and then it inevitability happens even when you are behaving. Then you do act out because of frustration or fear and then we get thrown out for our "bad behaviour". Just goes round in circles
Yup forces you to either have a knee jerk reaction due to always needing to watch your back or simply right out split, bye bye 👋 relationship/job over cuz you're too mad and they've some nerve!
(2nd time time typing this, 1st post disappeared, apologies if it’s doubled) 13:40 After 2 toxic relationships in college and a year out, my sense of reality was crushed. I went voluntarily celibate while undergoing several years of counseling+CBT. I was blessed to have that relationship trauma because it took me to the rock bottom needed to get help. Then I realized that if not for the double wake up calls, I very well may have repeated the cycle. For anyone here mentioning narc parents, etc. please get counseling and healing, lest you repeat the cycle unwittingly. As Jesus said, “forgive them Father for they know not what they do.” Unwittingly becoming the narcissist while seeing ourselves as a victim is a road leading to a wide gate of doom.
Jerry, your videos started appearing on my feed and every single one of them makes perfect sense to me. I was particularly vulnerable to this because I'm also neurodivergent. I can't tell you the rage I feel towards my mother. Yet, I'm playing straight into her hands, that's exactly what the intention was all along. It's a very painful process to come to terms with your own mother being the enemy
The crux issue is the lack of boundaries and privacy. On some level my mom understands that people need boundaries, but my grandmother didn't. There was no funeral, and just us and the grave-diggers at her burial. There are no techniques in dealing with these people, just the realization your life is your own. Epictetus' stoicism has always had tremendous appeal. Even if I was born a slave, I don't have to live as one!
All this stuff I'm learning about myself.. I've learned that I have been stifled in my confidence and my creative energy. And it's not just narcissistic parents, but we live in an EXTREMELY narcissistic soceity as well. So it compounds.
My mom is more avoidant/authoritarian. So i blow up, i get loud, to her bulldozing, when she tries to rewrite what i know to be reality. She does it a lot. Yet because she did not raise her volume, she maintains that i am the offender. My siblings used to believe her, but as we spend more time without her as adults, i am noticing the way they act around me is starting to open up. She made them fear me, when i wouldnt go along with her version of the story. The insults and dehumanization i was responsing to are never acknowledged. The youngest child is later 20s and it never stopped, only got deeper in manipulation. My dad passed believing he was a burden.
When my husband tried to gaslight with bullying behavior I had to record him to validate my experience to keep from going crazy and keep in reality what was going on. Then I confronted his behavior when he was sober. Once confronted with the truth he chose to enter into a recovery program.
My late husband was like this…..his nervous system was so shot after decades of scapegoating….. he did EMDR, hypnosis, cbt, and was loved my his own little family 💙♥️
Covert narcissists who placate abusive narcissist spouces tend to sneaky quiet abuse to upset children to react outwardly to divert the abuse off of themselves and onto the children who can't physically defend themselves. "See they're the problem, not my housekeeping, etc." (or other nonsense used for blaming on the scale of demanded perfection).
Working through this pain is very difficult. My mother doesn't validate any of my emotions, when im really happy or what I have come to realise is far worse, my emotional pain. She wanted all issues and problems to disappear. All my difficulties swept under the carpet. She is "loving and warm" to me only when im presenting a picture of everything is okay and bland and fits with what she expects. Just two days I was yellow rocking as this keeps conversation flowing and stops her and sing me anything important. Telling her anything important only gets me the you should, ought to ........ and leaves me in a tail spin. She just wants and always has wanted the fawning, the pretending that everything is alright no matter what. The only time emotions are allowed are when they're hers!
YOU DESCRIBE IT ALL PERFECTLY!! We're also belittled about our struggles. Anything that we're struggling with or weak. I'm 61-year-old rather frail woman, with lifelong limitinh/debilitating health problems and trauma as you can guess, and my almost 82 year old father is still denigrating me when I struggle. When he has a struggle, I'm supposed to baby him, but if I try to then he says oh I don't need anything I'm always good I can handle it - he's so stoic yet whiny, aggressively & covertly needy. But yet he pulls on me and gets angry if I don't try to pet him. there's absolutely no where to stand, it's a razor's edge - damned if I do & if I don’t! I'm sure he also went through these things and is unbelievably insecure while acting aggressively confident because of the abuse he went through, because his father was abused and his mother abandoned etc. It all goes through the families generation after generation? I have someone else in my life like this too, and their birthdays are one day apart though different years, for those of you interested in astrology lol. When he's nice he's very nice and when he's bad he's horrid, just like the nursery rhyme. This was true of a number of people in my family of origin! What a confusing twisty minefield and damaging roller coaster 😢 You describe my childhood too. If I go right they go left, if I go slow they shove me forward faster... if I speed up they jerk me back and slow me down. If I go up they go down, if I'm sad I'm not happy enough to them, if I'm happy I'm out of control and not sad and calm enough for them. It's constant micro control !! Everybody in my family is diagnosable but only one has been diagnosed with anything, and very late in life. I went to see what was wrong with me, but was been diagnosed with just extreme generalized anxiety, neuronal burnout/damaged neurons etc from lifelong extreme stress, and C-PTSD 😔 Yes I'm so tired of scanning & navigating constantly! My brain is literally exhausted and undoubtedly shrunken from all that I've gone through with that, constantly scanning for multiple multiple people, on jobs, landlords, housemates, family, dealing with the poverty of it all too sick to work all my life, though working hard anytime I was able at any job I could get for as long as I could manage to keep it... and so on. Nowhere to stand nowhere to be. Not allowed to explore my dreams to shape sense of self, to learn, grow, experience, accomplish, like you said. It's like having your hands cut off or something. Until I was about 4 or 5 years old, my dad thought it was funny to put his hand on my forehead and hold me back, then tell me to punch at him and try to move forward, and he would laugh and think it was funny that he was holding a little girl back while making her have to move and struggle against him. He loves putting women into struggle sessions! There were other things that I won't share, but I refer to them as non-erotic emotional incest and such, carried out on me and my sibling. Things we thought were just rough parts of how parents act, but no, they were hideous damaging and freaking weird. Yeah they don't respect our boundaries and they don't treat us with respect but disrespect!! Why we have to phone and show respect to them inordinately! I share all of this just because it's coming up in my mind and I know other people's comments have helped me immensely, so if something I say help somebody else get in touch with their reality, that's why I share it ❤ I'm talking about it in the negative, because I'm getting in touch with it in this moment, but there is healing! 😊 THANK YOU for all you do, and I will look into taking your courses or whatever as soon as I can! Valuing your videos highly and helping myself heal through them!
Good job! You've touched on many points that apply to the way that I was raised. One was " parentification" - expecting me to be their parent while they held all of the keys of control. Talk about being put into an unfair situation. Thank you for making me feel that, at least someone understands.
The thing is...most people will not stop having sex. Animals will not stop sex. Even not in war times. Every man wants sex. Every woman is groomed to have sex anyway. So, many people get babies. Nature allways find ways to just have sexual tendencies. Knowing this, is important. No animal goes first to get a licence to have sex, mate either. We only can make some choices, if we think deep. I never met a man who for instance did NOT WANT SEX, before getting a licence, just in case, if a baby is in the making. Just figure, if no contraception would exist. The truth is, we are all victims in a way. Some try to think and work on themselves.
Yes! I’ve always said that good parenting should be taught in every school year from middle school onwards. Were told, “oh, you’ll just figure it out as you go along”, and this is where that philosophy has gotten us. Human life and growth shouldn’t just be left to chance. Imagine what society would be like if people were taught how to be good, thoughtful parents. It was because of the way my narcissistic mother instilled her messages into me that made me decide never to have children, because I didn’t want to take even a single chance of damaging my potential children the way she damaged me, and really, the only way we learn how to be a parent is from the way our parents parented us.
@@kgs2280while I agree it’s cool if schools teach kids what is good parenting and what is abuse(including any types of abuse), as mandatory education, but it won’t never happens because the vast majority of educators are also narcissistic people.
You have described my mother very aptly. At the age of 8 I was forced to start making decisions for the family because my mother didn't know how to cope with the everyday situations in life. She was always a very "tense" person and had no warmth at all. When she made a decision it was usually not a good one and I can't tell you how many times I heard my father say "why did you do that" to her when they were discussing something. At an even younger age, about 4-5, I remember questioning why my mother would do something because that just didn't make any sense to me; then when I'd hear my father ask my mother "why" she made that decision I knew something wasn't right. I didn't have a childhood and she tried to rob me of a life as an adult by telling lies about me to my sisters, and sadly they believed my mother and wouldn't listen to me. More often than not I didn't even know to what they were referring until I asked more questions and then I realized what had occurred. I loved mother but I did not like her as she was nasty and mean more often than not. I am hoping she finally found some peace when she passed several years ago, but I will just about guarantee that she was arguing with her Maker when she passed; it's who she was and how she was, and she always had to be right about everything but was more often wrong, and my sisters are just like her, and needless to say, they are both very unhappy people with few friends. Narcissists make life very difficult for themselves as well as anyone around them. Thank you for what you have shared with us.
I was harranged 5 days a week over anything I'd ever done wrong. My dad was home the other 2 days. Anytime I might feel ok about myself or hopeful things would be better, zing. Never a compliment. Never happy to be at school functions. Never happy to spend time.
My reactivity leads to rage that I can't always dampen. It's just washes over me, I would like to be able to regulate, but I have such difficulty. Your comments make me think if I rage at toxic treatment, I may be a narcissist!?! I, at least, am trying for balance. I'm 72 years old and still working on this, and it's still traumatic.
my struggle is that i feel the best thing to do is to not acknowledge anyone in public, since i dont know how they'll respond to even a 'hello' or 'good day' but then i realize that not acknowledging people is also seen as rude to some. so im in this toss up of fear that no matter how i respond i can come off as offensive no matter what. so its better i just never leave my home.
Just try and be polite to people. Smile and say hello, or don’t if you don’t feel like it. How they react is up to them. You’re not responsible if people feel offended. I can’t imagine people will feel offended - they have their own worries in life and just getting on with things. Don’t stay at home because of this. Just go out and do what you want to do and be civil to people and that’s fine. If you don’t know what the social rules are, or you think you have real anxiety around this, do try and get help - someone to talk to about this.
Finally get your family OUT OF YOU & be the true self you were never allowed to be 👇
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Took me 50 years
outstanding video! thank you!
Thank you again Dr. Wise.
I truly wish you nothing but the best Dr. Wise, you are a golden soul amongst us in this species.
Forgive for the third comment, I just want to say that you are doing a great job exposing my thoughts and daily introspection about my condition in relation to my family.
If you don’t figure this out. You wind up with life partners that are worse than your parents.
Already did. All narcs.
Was no information readily available about narcissism in my day. I found out the hard way, no other way with narcs. Great comment
@@pope1089 - I have lost everything.
@@michaelgarrow3239 Start again. Peace
Or you become your parents and blind to it once it’s too late
My mom just can't stand to hear me talk about anything that interests me. My job is to react to HER conversation. When my turn comes, I get about 45 seconds and then she cuts me off and redirects the conversation back to something that interests her. Every single time.
Same. It’s very frustrating and draining. The most difficult thing for me was to realise that my mother just doesn’t care about me
That would be both of my parents, but when 2018 rolled around, my mother left me stunned. My family had a hell of a year. Literally almost a dozen friends and family died, one person had shoulder surgery a week before we realized we were going to have to drive cross-country for one of those funerals, and two people lost their jobs. I sent my mother an email saying that the next time she visited, I really needed time to talk.
We sat down together and she started talking about how awful it was that they’d had a major repair that cost $10,000. I was literally struck dumb. A _repair_?
Holy Saint Francis on a polka dot mule. She’s been trying to get me enmeshed for years, and stepped up her efforts when my father died. I'm having none of it, and cut her back to text and email only. I have boundaries like the Grand Canyon and ignore any communication that crosses those boundaries. She has decided that's because I am manic and refuse to get help. I have bipolar disorder, I am most definitely not manic, and I've been under the care of a psychiatrist and in therapy for two decades to make sure it stays that way.
The person who is refusing to admit they have a problem and need help is looking out of her mirror, not mine.
I had to double check and make sure I wasn't the one that had posted this.
I know that !
@@rosed7060 Looking ,back and realizing that when your a terminal patient as a child and mom doesn't hug you, tell you a bedtime story or comfort you then it's a bad sign.
I did survive the brain swelling inflammation but it made me pick a sincere loving wife. lol
It makes it so hard to navigate adulthood, and we end up spending our energy surviving instead of making the most of our abilities.
Yep. Throughout my life, friends have questioned me, truly puzzled, about why I don't just blow my own horn and use my abilities freely. They say that it just doesn't make sense, as though something is always holding me back. They see no reason why that should be. (I avoid talking about my past.)
Meanwhile, I always feel that I am just treading water, despite successes.
I totally relate.
You put that so well. Just reading those words gave me some comfort, knowing there are others who know this kind of struggle that seems to last a lifetime (hopefully it will not, though 🍀).
Absolutely. And it's pure hell. You don't feel like a whole person, ever :(
THIS!!!!
My parents were " undisciplined disciplinarians" .
So frustrating and damaging!!
Perfect description for my parents! And they expected me to be way better than that. And when I tried to be better, they accused me of being stuck up. Total catch-22. No-win situation with these people. Only solution is almost no contact.
I like your analogy. It's the best one I've heard to describe my parents. I would also add inconsistent, undisciplined, disciplinarians. 😢
That is so concise a description and so apt. Mine were the same, they had disciplinary diarrhoea for the kids and no control over themselves.
Facts
My family invented generational trauma.
They raise us confused, we become highly confused and scattered. Its all highly demented. My whole 20's was trying to unravel the confusion.
There is no confusion. You need to think more highly of yourself because a narcissist wont do that for you.
I didn't unravel it until I found out what narcissism is in my early 30's. My parents nearly destroyed me by age 30, but I bounced back after getting away from them. I realize now in my 40's how screwed I would have been if I had followed all their advice. I'd probably be either homeless, dead or in prison if I had followed their advice.
My empathy for others is intense and debilitating. I have no empathy for myself.
I never thought of it that way 🤔 pondering...thanks
When one door is closed, another is open.
If you feel such a deep resounding empathy, find a way to serve God using that skill, it will serve you well.
Me too
I would like to like this 1000x. Thank you.
@@sammicopor no thank you
I often say I walk around and live with a certain amount of rage that never really goes away. It's always there under the surface. People have no idea how hard it can be to control my reactions to foolishness.
I understand you
You're not alone brother!!!!
wow! That's about right!
Fuckin A .... wish I had a pressure release valve ....
I got that exact same feeling non stop!
I fight to keep it contained so hard it tires me out mentally and physically.
I think the lesson - and the shock - is to realise quite how much they can hate you, if you are the one who stands up to them. Often you only discover this through others.
They will pretend not to, because they are ashamed of hating their own kids, but don't underestimate that loathing. No contact is absolutely the way forward, because you can never have an honest relationship with them.
They can be absolutely malicious when given the opportunity They will stop at nothing
Going no contact was certainly the only way forward in my case. I'm grateful that I had that option.
Yep.
I was afraid of failing and also afraid of achieving.
My success was somehow "threatening" to other family members.
It’s so crazy to see someone else write that. I completely understand.
When my parents found themselves in trouble, I was the child they called upon. Otherwise, it seemed I was one of Mom's favorite pin cushions. She *_LOVED_* drama.
When Dad was murdered, our mother placed the task of pursuing justice squarely in my hands. I wanted a capital charge but, due to the circumstances, agreed with the prosecutor's determination for a felony charge to make sure the killer spent time in prison. I developed the argument for murder, which the prosecutor used to unprecedented success!
Following the sentencing, family and friends met with the prosecuting team to discuss the coming decades, what to expect with such an unprecedented case and conviction. Then the prosecutor made a horrible mistake: she praised me, encouraged me to run for public office! Immediately and repeatedly, Mom stood up and yelled, "It doesn't matter what (my son) said in there, he doesn't represent the family!"
This pretty much sums up life with my parents. I could have healed the earth and hung the moon, but somehow Mom would find a way to envy, denigrate, marginalize, destroy, I finally walked away.
Anytime I succeeded (example, i got into college at 16) my 2 sisters fought me, but u fought them back and then they will run and tell everyone that I was the problem
@@singstreetcar5881
Yep.
That is making you the "scape goat."
Instead of celebrating you and your achievements; you are belittled because they feel bad about themselves.
As children we are hurt and confused.
When we begin to heal; we realize that their behavior was inappropriate.
Yes I understand the fear of success. This is something all of us raised by a narcissist must get over.
My narcissist mother looked me over upon my arrival once and critical of my grooming as ever said " Those aren't Your eyebrows." I was feeling good that day so I simply said " And they're not yours either."...ya gotta laugh when you can.
😄 you gotta by sly sometimes
OMG, my mother was obsessing my teeth. Everytime she saw me she woukd say "show me your theeth", then go on to take the credit for my nice teeth, how much they cost her etc, yet I've been paying for my dental care for 40 years now. My dad is the same, he qas looking at a photo of me and said "your teeth are nice, I paid for them". Wasn't that that made me react, but it starts the build up.
😂😂😂
Yes but my narcs have 0 sense of humour
Good answer!!
“The world is safe switch gets turned off” - nailed it🙃.
So true l have always found the world unsafe
A very valid problem that we strugggle with. We did not ask to be born from these narcissistic parents, but we have to live with the scars.And be careful how to react in situations where our buttons get pushed at times.
Our parents followed along with what everyone else was doing, or most everyone anyway, in a way they are also being victimized by the system.
The System/Society is also at fault too. One thing I've learned from my experiences, growing up in the 90s, having been born with Aspergers, both of my birth parents were cluster Bs, is that the System will judge the child based off how the parents see him or her. Especially moreso if the child was born with a disability.
I remember being 4 years old, having to watch my birth father try to kill my birth mother. I cried everyday in kindergarten class, and my teacher ridiculed me in front of my peers. Once she encouraged them to ignore me by handing out candy, saying "thank you for ignoring (Nocturne's real name here), good job!".
So many abused kids hate the System as adults. The System failed them, so can you blame them?
@@David-eu1msThy are victimizers too and often use their kids as leverage. Modern American modern culture is mentally ill and still condones male child genitals multilitions as birth. I don't want to hear bad parents excuses for their bad behaviors, nobody is entitled to kids, this toxic narc parents id you want to call them that, are not parents and are evil. I call this stuff out of the time and my bit*ch of a mother hates for me. I will happy when she is gone. I would rather be alone in a leaky, shole shack with no running water than around narcissistic wahmen abusers
After the last 3 years with the jab grift and nurses being tryant abusers and people in healthcare I could care less what people think of me. Also abusive narc step"Dad's* are far more common than society says they are. More children of covert narc abusers parents should grow up to rent them and I learned don't ever lift a finger to help them, because they won't ever be appreciative or thankful. F em. I wish I had never known my so called mother..
@@nocturne6548Of course we should blame them, i know parents who are opposite from society and system " standards and norms ". People with that parents are mostly positive independent adult people now. Its easy to blame system and society for everything, lets face it that some of us had narcissistic monsters who ruined and affected our adult and whole life.
They ( folks) was all Nuts& I knew it long ago. Bye= freedom
A lifetime nightmare and abusers smell us a mile off . It’s like a merry go round that never stops no matter how much u grow
Ok this is my first trip to Disney World. Great place to people watch. I am appalled at 80% of the parents I observed.
Absolutely appalled.
No discipline for parents or children.
Kids walking around obviously not bathed, unbrushed hair and teeth, wearing dirty clothes, some in flip flops, keeping them up past 9:00
Kids crying , screaming, out of pain, being scared on rides, siblings fighting and the parents completely oblivious!!!!
It is really disheartening.
Sloppy , extremely overweight, parents in a daze as children almost get lost behind them.
Rarely am I observing good parenting skills. Most of these parents should never be parents.
None of your business
1. Telling me what I think....not asking.
2. Accusing ..not asking what happened.
3.Shaming children for not meeting their expectations...no matter how inappropriate their expectations are.
4. Lying about events.
5. Getting angry when you ask them what happened or what they think.
6. Blowing up on a rage when you state a feeling that you have
7. The silent treatment.
8. Never discussing problems or solutions. Just sweep them under a rug and acting like everything is fine, then they come at you with passive aggressive digs.
9. Not respecting boundaries. Reading your mail, email, diary.
10. Pitting people against each other in triangulation.
All of the above!
Very well said , Thankyou it helps alot .
I think you're probably my long lost sibling. One that understands and lived as I did. Thank you for sharing.
I think we have the same parents. 😊
Wow! All of what you said is my reality. It is so creepy. 🤦♀️ some of these issues just scream at me! #8 took me a minute to figure out what the hell that was about. I HATE the fake niceness, or sweetness after they RAGE. Acting like nothing ever happened. Just LA LA LA LA. I'd be frozen.
My mother says stupid crap like: you must have made me angry that's why I said that or did this. Or when renigging on something she said she'd do that was detrimental to my well being or a need that she's entitled to change her mind, and to say abusive things because SHE was pissed😮
I like how you said reacting on the inside.. The weird thing is that I learned to tolerate way too much abuse..
Caring for myself.. Something that I have noticed in many different instances is that as I get healthy the unhealthy start resisting me.. One example was when I was in a yoga class.. As the class started growing and as I got stronger and more flexible I noticed how the vast majority of the class was against me.. I made sure that I talked to the instructor and that I could have my mat close to her.. When others started pushing my mat around and encroaching my space I talked to a retired State Trooper and a semi retired DNR Warden.. They said just come back by us and I said that the instructor was the authority in the class.. They understood that.. When the instructor did not have my back I knew it was time to leave..
Learning to tolerate abuse isn't weird. It's a survival skill. The trouble is that it's a survival skill for a trapped child or an abused adult, but our brains don't have any good way of recognizing that we're safe and need to take it offline. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm a little short on functional skills to use instead, too.
@@SuzannaLiessa Yup.. To me it is the addicted to excitement..
@darinsmith2458 Interesting that you put it that way. I get an adrenaline spike when I'm being angry inside my mind - when my ruminations are angry and I'm triggered. Sometimes it’s hard to let go of that. I want more. I wonder if that is because "safety" was when I started screaming back.
@@SuzannaLiessa Yes.. I look at addiction as different than what I actually want.. I want peace and serenity but my body goes towards the opposite..
The lack of validation in childhood hit so hard. As a kid all I got from my parents were scoldings & spankings for small non-malicious mistakes, criticisms, comparisons to others. Even while other adults (uncles, aunts, family friends) praised and genuinely liked me - which likely helped why some of my self-esteem is intact unlike my siblings'.
I started excelling in high school. But their expressions towards my achievements were either about themselves ("she got it from me"), or "why u not the valedictorian". I have talents like singing & playing instruments. When others tell my dad about it, he says "huh I didn't know she can". I'm holding a high position at work and I'm told "why u not the CEO, u should quit". I am never good enough. It's so weird to be genuinely appreciated by non-family but not by your own parents, esp father.
Sounds like we grew up in the same environment. We were always criticized and compared to others, including our cousins. If I didn't make national honor society in high school, I was scolded, but when I did, it was ignored. My younger sister was totally idolized. My mother would go to all of her basketball games but never once took half a day to see my track meets. Or barely showed up to my concert events. My sister would be in the paper with small articles and my mother bought a book to put all the clips of articles. I made the paper and she barely even acknowledged it. When my older sister left for college, my mother cried. When I left, nothing. And she was quite sad when my younger sister left. In my 20's, when I would come home to visit, my mother would have no qualms to tell me that I had nothing to show for myself. Even now, at my age, I am still criticized. Still not good enough. Now, I'm compared to my sisters and my father even asked my older sister if I was jealous of my younger sister. I haven't talked to any of them since July. It saddens me quite often, but there is only so much criticism that you can take before it becomes too overwhelming.
As I was growing up, I realized as an adult I would never want to be dependent on my narcissistic mother. Long story short, I studied hard and excelled all through high school, but she did not come to my high school graduation. Then I had five very difficult years at university, but I did very well. After the university graduation ceremony in the reception area, all of us mingled and congratulated each other. But my mother demanded I take off my graduation cap and gown so that she could wear them. She put them on and told me -- the university graduate -- to stand next to her as she posed for photographs, because this was "her graduation too" because "she was the mother". Throughout my life before she passed away, she robbed me of all that was mine, or else she destroyed it, or dismissed it as unimportant, and if she couldn't do that, she used gossip to reinvent history to conform to her alternate reality in which she was not the brightest star in the sky, but the only star in the sky.
Often when I was given a gift I was then told I didn’t deserve it but they were giving it to me anyway. If I got help on a school project then received a good grade I was told I didn’t deserve the grade because I got help.
I was made deputy head of my school, my friend Gina was made a prefect - she got a bike for the honour, I got "Humph, why weren't you head girl?"
It was always the same - I got a first class degree, my mother tried to monopolise the entire proceedings and ruin my graduation ceremony.....and yes, I got my talent "from her". I too was constantly compared, negatively, to others; I used to joke, as a teenager, that the words on my headstone would read "She wasn't good enough". Wasn't really a joke now was it? It's taken a lifetime of struggle to have any semblance of self esteem.
The same. Nothing was ever good enough. Ever. Perfection (lightning in a bottle anyway) was met with "why can't you do that all the time", And yelling hitting. I went in the military. When I came back, as an adult, it changed. I found out in MY case, getting angry worked. "Go ahead, but now I hit back" worked. Interesting. Seeing what IS normal was a necessary step for me. And to steal from American Gods, "angry gets shit done" ... sometimes.
The anger my narc grandmother expressed to other family members when I stayed calm constantly was insane. I knew her game after dad died so I stayed calm and happy. And she ran around town screaming “he doesn’t love me” because I wasn’t anxious as hell around everything she said. She wanted obedience and me to be scared into action. That’s love to her.
That’s how it works
Here is how to change it
program.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/welcome/
That’s love to her. I feel the same about my mother. She motivates me with fear and when it does not work she feels rejected. It is a sickness and distortion. Thanks for your comment. It gave me a new insight. 😊
I learned at a very young age the my feelings were always wrong so I turned them off in front of my family.
this!!! exactly me too. only emotion allowed was happy. that’s the systems role i fell into. finally breaking out. it’s been absolutely suffocating.
Children are often considered having "Toy" emotions where anger is concerned.
you’re so right. they’re so not taken seriously so often and it’s fucking sad.
One thing, in particular, of what you said, rang my bell. My mother had this sudden outburst of anger towards me. And it was kind of shocking, not because I feared her phisically, but because they were so unpredictable and also disproportionate. Most of the time for little things or nothing
Ditto 😢
@@juliathomas2807?
Every. Single. Day.
My father’s rage outbursts, his perpetual irritation, his cutting criticism.
It was because something unrelated to you had annoyed her, so she took it out on someone who couldn't fight back.
I had to leave school at 16 even though I wanted to stay. I knew then something is really wrong here, what parent doesn't want their child to get good education. I was expected to get a job any job regardless of whether I liked it, regardless of whether I was being underpaid or expected to do overtime and not get paid a cent, regardless if I was being bullied, the consensus was to just stay there forever and never leave until retirement. When I did leave to get a better paying job closer to home I ended up getting the narcissistic rage with him yelling at me at the top of his lungs at 7am in the morning waking up the entire neighbourhood. Same as wanting to travel overseas, that was met with yelling and screaming also, these people are nuts.
My mother checks all of the boxes here, but the one that resonates the most with me is the intrusiveness, lack of boundaries, never being allowed to have my own PRIVACY! She was forever barging into our rooms, even well into adolescence, when teenagers really begin to NEED their own privacy. She'd barge right in when when we were just out of the shower and getting dressed...she'd eavesdrop on the extension telephone, she'd snoop through my diary and everything personal to me. As a teenage boy, well...I NEEDED my privacy once those hormones kick into full gear and my thoughts were mostly sexual, if you catch my drift. It is a normal behavior, but I was ostracized after she barged in on me once and horrifically embarrassed and humiliated me, so...I put a lock on my bedroom door, which only got my door kicked in by her whenever she tried to just breeze right into my room. I was afforded absolutely NO PRIVACY, which always struck me as just, well...SICK.
My mother used to go through all my things when I was at school. She'd take things from me. Then one day I found the motherload of doodles/sketches she had stolen and hidden away. And then I married a man that did the same. What the hell is wrong with these people? Invasiveness and intrusiveness. Sick people.
These sound like the hallmarks of a BPD mom together with paranoia about everything (especially about you using drugs) and her trying to steal your friends.
One thing I noticed about me, is that disrespect is hard to process. I blew up at a coworker (a male) in an incident where he was being disrespectful. Our senior coworker got involved and she, sided with him…she turned her back to me, not willing to know why I was upset at him. My reaction, was over the top and as I analyzed it over the next few days …pealing back the onion…I came to know why I’d overreacted. It was food for thought as I went forward…but the damage was done. My coworkers thought of me as nutty. As a kid, there was NO respect for kids in our home. We, were not even people….i honestly don’t know how my parents saw us. Our mother who is the narcissist saw me as the one who handled all her responsibilities and I now understand as her supply 😔💔. So when coworker was disrespectful to me I responded as I wanted to but couldn’t, as a child. Live and learn. Thank you for your work…it’s helping so many people ❤️.
It's tough to self-reflect and realise that the damage done to you has caused you then to become a problem in certain situations. Good on you for recognising when you do wrong - it's something that narcissists are unable to do. Solid sign of recovery from the learned childhood responses.
I can barely handle disrespect. It's a thing with me. My stepfather was a narcissist and so was my ex-husband. I can't tolerate anymore disrespect, lies, or being ignored or blown off. I just want the rage to go away.
@@arielmarbury467 The world is a minefield of triggers for us scapegoats because people are so selfish and self-absorbed, and it all just feels like the straw that broke the camels back. I can understand how it must be so much easier to just shrug off bad behavior from people if you grew up feeling seen, heard and respected as a child, there is this foundation of self-assured security that is largely missing from the scapegoated personality.
I think you reacted normally. Society do not like it when you are your best advocate. I think if you keep reacting to the same person is when you became highly reactive and that is not good. But I don’t get how you think you defending yourself against disrespecting was bad? For the coworker to side with him and not know what happened is a sign to you to stay away from that coworker. Since you got the sign there is no reason for you in the future to react to him/her since she or he has shown you their hand.
I'm 62. I must have worked in OVER 100 different jobs. I will not tolerate disrespect!!!!
Sometimes I have to take a break from these videos because they can be triggering for me and I will binge watch for a while, then step back to process things for a while and listen to pretty music. I really appreciate you, Mr. Jerry. You have been a blessing to me. I hope you have time to take a break from this subject sometimes and I hope you have someone to talk to. Thank you. 🕊️
I do exactly the same.
This is totally what I do too
Same. Sometimes I doubt if they serve me because I feel retraumatised whenever I start bingewatching again.
On the other hand with all the gaslighting abd selfdoubt it's a relief to have our experience acknowledged and the sick dynamic explained.
Now I focus on the videos which offer solutions, ways to detach and gray rock.
Jerry's better than any shrink I've ever been to.
Yes to all comments above
I assisted many bovine, cows,live births. If the first birth of a young, first calf heifer was difficult, nine times out of ten the young mother cow walks away, disowning the new born calf.
I was the fourth child of a young 20 year old mother, a twin, born 3 and 1/2 hours after my sister.
I remember as a seventh grader while alone standing in our kitchen asking that young heifer, mom, if I was adopted.
While growing up, referring to me in conversation with my narc dad, I was, "That dammed kid!"
When this "narc" information finally made it to my ears at age 59, 8 years ago, that I had two narcissistic parents, I called her out on it, I asked her why did I stutter growing up mom? Her answer, "Showing off" and why did I pee the bed until my senior year mom? She answered, "Lots of kids do." 8 years now with no contact, even when they tried contacting me to let me know that their golden girl child had suddenly died, at age 65.
That was after she was on over three years of silent treatment geared towards me.... from being seated at mom and dad's gossip table with my twin sister who not only had s broken marriage, but lost her youngest to suicide at age 14 and her oldest to drug addiction...of course I didn't attend services...
Looking back I had SO many clues while growing up in that perfectly normal dysfunctional family, normalizing abnormal behavior..... Growing up and into my adult years
I do remember deliberately, NOT acting like my dad!
Every one of us siblings had a broken marriage and addictions associated with them., Including me. .
My adult children have no addictions and have families, careers, and no broken marriages.!!!
But I am over 15 years recovering alcoholic.. and doing awesome...
Thank you GOD!!
My older narc brother, used to call me the 'milk man's' child, or my mother's child. Never just me. The odd thing is 23 and Me, showed me I have a 'half sister'. All of my mother's pregnancies are accounted for. So unless, my father is not my biological dad, or my dad had fling. I can't help but think I don't know who my father is.
I can't believe it! The more you go into details the more I realise how much damage I received from my mother. And in some ways I'm happy to do this sort of coming out, cos it's liberating, finally I understand a lot of what's happened to me, but in other ways it is embarrassing. Well, if this is the price to pay, I will accept it. Psychological freedom is absolute priority
I feel the exact same way-like I am liberated that the pieces of the puzzle are finally coming together but there is a sense of embarrassment behind it all.
THIs👏🏼👏🏼🙌🏼same here! And ditto with the some parts being embarrassing 😓
I feel embarrassed as well. I am not sure why I feel that way, but it is disconcerting.
It's so good to know we are not alone. People, friends in trauma here, it's good to know there are others here who really get you and me without judgment or getting brushed off, or dumped. Thank you, Dr Jerry! I have never had this in my life. Even when previously in therapy.
I think we feel embarrassed as we still assume we were responsible. Parentified children have this as a default reaction to nearly anything: either they are the cause or they should at least bring about the solution. If you are not cared for, protected, you inevitably self parentify. That's what comes to my mind as I try to figure out where this insidious shame comes from.
I think it’s stupid when people blame you for your reactions.
This one is really painful and extremely hard to get rid off. Mostly people have no idea that their life can be very different.
My sister is a narcissist and a pathological liar. It's odd to see her in action. She recently wrote an email that was about half a page long. Every sentence was either an outright lie, gaslighting, or twisting something. She also tried to bait me and my mom and was cruel, offered no help in a situation where help was very much needed, and then tried to tell everyone what to do. Masterclass in "crazy".
Their behavior is now predictable to me. I still resent the illusion offered that I have freedom around them. The pretense is that I have freedom, but its like a funnel with no outlet and a fake light at the end.
My father was the narcissist. It seems like most people have a mother who is a narcissist.
Some of us have both
My mom was the enabler
You’re not alone. I am in your boat.
Oh god - the perpetual haircut conversation. It seems so innocent doesn't it? They say "When are you going to get a haircut?" Then when I mention the difficulties I have with hair thinning, which is part of the reason why I haven't had it cut for a while, they tell me there's nothing wrong with my hair and that I'm being over-reactive about it. Then the very next time I see them, they say it again "When are you going to get a haircut?". Or "I have a hairdresser coming over in a few weeks, would you like me to book you in?" I remember my mum was always this way since I was young - if my hair was up, she liked it down. When my hair was down, she made constant suggestions about putting it up. The never ending game you can't win. Because if you react - they punish you, or gaslight you, or ridicule you. And if you don't react - you feel like crap.
OMG…my mother has AN OBSESSION WITH THE LENGTH OF MY HAIR..WTF…I’m 72 she’s 95…..she wears her hair short like a man…has thick hair and when she needs a haircut….theres a whole freakin discussion about. How bushy it is, and it has no shape….I don’t give a crap about her hair….,then she tells me to “pull it away from my face”…or it looks like a mop. Or isn’t it time for you to get a hair cut….i always wanted to say..” I don’t like men’s haircuts on women, but I kept my mouth shut because who wants to enrage a freakin narcissist….?!?!?….but
Her comments about my hair were equally to her saying that I. Ugly and don’t look nice….
So I avoided being with her to preserve myself and my emotions….only to have her comment that I don’t come over enough…freakin’ crazy bitch!
I sense the high level of reactvity in me. When someone says something that comes across like something my mother would have said, I can feel something click inside me. I am aware of it and I stop and reflect on it. I don't lash out at the person, but I allow more space to enter between us and am less inclined to spend time around that person.
This style of parenting is truly tragic for the child. I grew up in a narcissistic family. My dad and his 2nd & 3rd wives caused so much damage to my brother, sisters & I. One of us is a grandiose narcissist (golden child) who believes she is better than everyone, my brother is withdrawn like myself and our other sister died from complications of a suicide attempt many years ago. The damage has been done.
Speaking of boundaries in narcissistic families, I had a grandmother who would ask very very personal questions about my sex life with my husband. She would do this at the dinner table with just her, my grandpa & myself. She wanted a conversation on how fulfilled I was with my sex life with my husband! It made me so angry! But if I dared say anything reprimanding to her she would play the victim and I would be the terrible granddaughter!
Also my dad’s 3rd wife would barge into my bedroom as a teenager when I wasn’t dressed. She would go through my things and take whatever she wanted. This woman wasn’t even related to me! My dad just allowed it. Same dad who molested me, physically, emotionally & verbally abused me.
When I married someone the family didn’t approve of, the whole family set out to destroy my marriage!
These same people left me for dead for over a decade when I finally stood up to the abuse. I was smeared to sundry and lost all my family relationships.
Sound like a narcissistic family???
💜💜💜
Ufff, I was reading your story and it sounds very tragic and exhausting.
How do you feel now? How would you describe your journey once you decided to leave? How did your family responded?
My story is somehow similar, yet different.
I could never disect my experience as clear as Jerry would do, BUT... here we go:
My parents had a 30'ish year old marriage. Our family was the classical magazine "perfect nuclear family": 5 kids, best private schools & college, big house in a fancy neighborhood (you get the idea).
Imagine 5 kids, standing one next to the other, with matching classy outfits, all of them with a wide fake smile, standing in front of the imperial house entry for a family portrait. Both parents behind us all, holding our necks to prevent us from moving, correcting our postures and shooshing us while the cameraman did his job... After 20 identical but exhausting pictures, our family was ready to send a signal to the world that we were better than them all.
For everyone else our family was perfect. But looks may be deceiving. Behind those gorgeous pictures and fancy house, my siblings and I had to survive to very complicated and abusive parents. We learned that there was no space for our feelings, no space for our deep thoughts, nor our beliefs, talents, nor individuality. No space at all in a 300 m² mansion. Crazy.
"Shush Benjamin!! Your father is trying to sleep!!... Why would you do that to your own father? Are you trying to make your father tired? Do you want him to loose his job? If your father looses his job it will be because of you!! Because you always make him exhausted from all of your noise. From all of my kids, you are the worse. You are a bad son and always been. Go! Go to your bed!... And do not make any noise!
Then, 8 year old Benjamin went quietly to his bedroom... alone.
-------------------------
My mother died from cancer when she was 58. She was a heavy narcissistic abusive + had hysteria disorder.
When I remember her, the vietnam flashbacks start flooding my memories lol. Shes was very difficult, energy draining women. For me it started when I was 8 years old, out of nowhere, she grabed me and insulted me intensely, shouting at my face how I ruined her. I wont bore you with how manipulative she was, how she cryied to get her way, or how she trash talked everyone that surrounded her, including her own family.
But, after she died, I realized that my father was even worse!!! I could never tell about my father until my mother left, because when my mother was alive, she was the one who controlled everyone and everything, even my father. But now that shes gone, ufff, she released the kraken (my father)
I started doing therapy when I was 19 when I came out of the closet due to the damaging response from my parents (a gay son: a very unfavorable scenario for a family that heavily depended on their image 😅). Now im 29!! Its been a long journey discovering and disecting my parents 'parenting'.
After my father gaved me the cold sholder for coming out of the closet + the cold sholder my father gaved my older sibling when he was getting a very complicated divorce, I decided that we will never be enough for them..
2 months from now im leaving my country. Im moving out to Europe.. very far away from my family.
How horrible. I do hope you are doing better. 2,000 miles helped a lot for me.
But I'm now 74, and still working on it. Life gets better. But I've never found it easy.
You are literally describing my mother and the results in my life to a TEE! Every single word! 🤯
Wow Jerry… I’m 63 and my mom is 90! Yes… she STILL like to tell me what to do😖
Omg... im 29. And my father is 63..... 2 months from now I will be moving out to Europe to distance from my narcissitic abusive father. I cannot believe how can you tolerate your mother for so long!! 😅
Long story! Wanted my kids to have a grandma! THAT didn’t turn out too well tho😢. Good for you! I wish I would have moved AND stayed away! Seriously! I just kept hoping. Good moments sometimes, but not worth it in the long run! Too much damage done!
Long story! Wanted my kids to have a grandma! THAT didn’t turn out too well tho😢. Good for you! I wish I would have moved AND stayed away! Seriously! I just kept hoping. Good moments sometimes, but not worth it in the long run! Too much damage done!
Long story! Wanted my kids to have a grandma! THAT didn’t turn out too well tho😢. Good for you! I wish I would have moved AND stayed away! Seriously! I just kept hoping. Good moments sometimes, but not worth it in the long run! Too much damage done!
Long story! Wanted my kids to have a grandma! THAT didn’t turn out too well tho😢. Good for you! I wish I would have moved AND stayed away! Seriously! I just kept hoping. Good moments sometimes, but not worth it in the long run! Too much damage done!
Thank you. You're helping me to understand myself better. Most other people just dismiss me as dramatic or over emotional
Yep. Both of my parents are highly reactive. My narcissistic father and perfectionist mother have made me into quite the mess. My trauma turned into chronic anxiety, then severe depression, and then finally panic attacks by my senior year of high school. I've repeatedly gotten into relationships with controlling, emotionally withholding, narcissistic partners. This last partner who just broke up with me is the last straw. I have a lot of work to do. I'm not dating anyone until I heal my trauma and fully love myself. I've learned a lot. But still have so far to go. Thank you for your video, it helps explain a lot.
Codependency is a tricky thing for me, because I have lived with a NARC for 31 years and he would take control of EVERYTHING in my life, he gradually took over my life to the point where I wasn't allowed to do anything without his permission. I couldn't go out on my own; gradually I didn't know what I could do until I ran away, and now I'm realising what he did to me, plus my mother is a NARC and my earliest memory was in the doctors surgery; I can't remember how old I was but the doctor was asking me questions, but mother kept answering for me, untill the doctor told mum to be quiet; I felt panicky because Mum always spoke for me. On the way home I could FEEL her anger at me even though she didn't say a word, I was terrified of her anger because she would set another sibling on me; she would take turns to have a favourite.
I'm glad these kind of videos are out there. It's so isolating to be in these kind of dysfunctional families. Just gut wrenching, unhealthy things going on behind the scenes and no one in the family is going to talk about it. Heaven forbid. Every single person in my immediate family, there are four other including parents, are highly toxic to me. I sometimes wonder how I wound up in same family, they seem so different than me. Anyway, I feel better when I don't interact with them at all. And then the challenge if finding kind, healthy people to interact with and finding intimacy because good luck finding a healthy, intimate relationship when you come from a family like this. Thank you Mr. Wise.
My mother has invalidated my traumatic childhood by saying “I tried to protect you the whole time.” I was proud when I responded, “what you don’t understand is that I tried to protect you by not expressing my feelings.”
!!! holy shit i wish i could say exactly that to my mother!!!
Profound!
After twelve years, I had yo comeback to my mother's house because I lost my job and can't pay the rent anymore, i'm 37 years old, everydays she reminds me that is her house so her rules and if I dont like it i am free to leave, she is so intrusive she asked me for every questions you mention in the video and more, I always had problems in trust people, my older sister has anxiety, depression and tried to suicide two times, now as an adult and all the information in videos like this I can understand better, I'm a broken adult but trying to fix it. Im trying so hard to let go the anger and reactivity and trying to trust more in people, it's difficult. Thank you for those videos, it helps to see I am not alone. Cheers up everybody in comment section
Please try to not allow this to distract you from your priority: you, getting employment and moving away into your own sanctuary. You may enter a loop that is hard to get out of otherwise and literally years will pass.
You can do this!
@@miuthub7954so well said.
❤🩹
I suggest you get any job you can and find a way to live elsewhere, e.g. with roommates . Do what you would do if you didn't have parents to fall back on.
Ok this may sound mean...first I will tell u Iam 62... if you can not move into any normal place...
Go apply for public housing..... GET OUT OF THAT HOUSE... NOW
IF NOT most likely u will regret it. I know, I should have. Love, Peace to U.
It's hard. The feelings are so overwhelming,but you have to try to catch yourself while it's happening and try to not overreact!
To be honest, i feel just hate towards my parents. Does anyone feel the same? I was never hateful person towards anyone, but them.
Don’t feel badly that you feel that hate. Accept that you are not ready to give up your hate yet. Maybe you can ask, “If I gave up hating them, what would be the downsides?”
@@jerrywise Thank you.
That's the worst part. Thinking I am the hateful person.
U r not the only one. I hate my narcissistic mom and my alcoholic dad. I hate my lazy grandma and my mom's siblings. They r not nice people at all. I grew up in the big family of my mom's side. Terrible 😢
I am sorry, i know how you feel 💔 Stay strong, don't let them win.
I had to stop watching halfway through. This rings so true to my life. The challenge is how to NOT pass it on to the next generation. I do NOT want my kids to be messed up like I was.
if i ever borrowed something of my moms and put it back but she couldnt find it, shed accuse me of stealing it, yet whenever she lost something she'd say the devil is hiding it from her. one day i confronted her about it and she had nothing to say.
"Why do you always accuse me of stealing yet when you lose something i dont accuse you, and you blame the devil? How come the devil only hides things when you lose it?"
No: 7 - threatened with the 'orphanage' innumerable times. This was after she got rid of my father, relatives, extended family relatives 🤨 Didnt know what an orphanage was back then.
My father was put in an orphanage for a few years by his mother so she could party after my grandfather died. He took me and my brother there one time At Homecoming and said we’d better be good, because that’s where bad kids go to live.
🙁I got this threat as well.
My mother called it a Boarding School.
This video is so accurate. I've experienced most of these in my family. One thing my golden child brother does which always throws me off is he rarely asks me anything about my life when he's back visiting, yet we're all expected to be interested in his. Once I pointed it out and my mum said "well we live with you so we know what you're doing" which I thought was such an awful thing for her to say to me. I find myself volunteering information because I'm so confused and disorientated why nobody is asking about what I've been up to, my family looks rather disinterested and eventually my brother would always suddenly go silent mid conversation or even leave the house and drive home. I never understood why he wasn't interested in what I was doing because I was always genuinely interested in his life and well-being. This dynamic has always made me feel rubbish and less than in my family.
You hit all the highlights of my childhood and subsequent adult life. 😂😂😂 Well done.
Regarding 9. Forming healthy relationships : there's the relationship they have with you, but also how they behave with others and how they react to your own relationships with others. And it's all messed up. In my experience, narcissistic parents neither model nor teach good social skills... which is a huge source of social anxiety, both during childhood and brought on into adulthood... which helps not at all to go calmly through life!
A lack of Emotional Validation. Thats right.
I am also reactive in situations which recall the abusive mothers behaviors. F. ex with negative people who put emphases on criticizing.
also people who choose the path of devaluating others instead of selfgrowth, who do not try to be fair. And it does not matter its towards me or others.
I got a Spouse worse than my Dad's, & my son got a Spouse worse than I did. God help my Grandsons!
I feel, after spending a lot of time listening to Jerry Wise, it is time to comment, share my thoughts on his website.
There are a lot of sites I have tuned into on the subject Narcissistic Parental Abuse, I have spent time learning from.
There are two people, I don't want to name names (Ok the other is Dr Ramani but I feel a bit cheeky mentioning another on Jerry Wises site) Jerry Wise who are outstanding in their knowledge of this subject. Jerry, being a male, is so so spot on, I don't know how to thank him enough for what he has done for me, so clearly, it's been amazingly insightful and has lifted tonnes of weight from my shoulders, calmed me, reassuring me with such a positive understanding, like nothing else I have had in my life.
Thank you Sir, you have cleared away my confusion with your work ❤.
I moved back home 6 years ago. When I moved, I rented, as we didn't have time to look for a house before we left. Unfortunately, the area we moved to is more expensive and then the housing went nuts. People were offering 100k over asking price. We looked and looked but had such a hard time. For 4 years we went through this. Meanwhile, my parents were giving me crap about still renting and why we hadn't bought a house. We finally bought one a year ago. In the same town we were renting. Which we were lucky to have found. But it needs some TLC. We knew that going in, but everything we looked at needed TLC and they were asking crazy pricing. Instead of my parents actually being happy we finally were able to find a house to buy, I got crap because it needs work, blah, blah, blah and then my father came out and said, I don't think you are ever going to do it. Never once have they been supportive and said good job. And when I went to go visit, I would get questions on when was I going to do the driveway, and the kitchen, and the bathrooms and that's going to cost me 70k to fix up the house, etc. I'm not asking them for money to fix it up, so what is their problem? Not like they come to visit anyways.
Exhausting isn't it.
Its the image - you're supposed to prop up their image
Lived through this pain my whole life! It explains why i have a fear of clingy ppl! I could never get away from their control and didn’t know why! I now know! 😊
This explains why during my first date with my exhusband and he acted out with an outburst of anger over nothing I didn’t leave then and there and never went back! Instead I sat back down and got involved in his insanity. I regretted it deeply and it cost me a lot. I’m surprised that I survived it!
00:24 🚦 Growing up with narcissistic parents can lead to heightened emotional reactivity as adults, even if we don't mirror their specific behaviors.
01:29 🛑 Emotional validation is crucial; lacking it in childhood can disable our ability to self-validate as adults.
02:26 🎢 Inconsistent and unpredictable behavior from narcissistic parents can lead to hypervigilance in adult relationships, eroding our trust in others.
03:35 💔 Narcissistic parents often demand perfection but provide excessive criticism, fostering a fear of mistakes and inhibiting trying new things.
05:26 🕰 Gaslighting and manipulation from parents can distort our perceptions, leading to self-doubt and a lack of self-trust.
06:47 🤝 Narcissistic parents encourage codependency, often prioritizing others' needs over our own, hindering self-discovery and true self-care.
08:22 🚧 Enmeshment disregards personal boundaries, causing intrusion and emotional entanglement, hindering individuality.
10:23 ☔ Narcissistic parents may induce fear of abandonment, making us highly reactive to any perceived threat to relationships.
11:56 🔄 Role reversal in narcissistic families can lead to overly caretaking behaviors and heightened reactivity to others' emotions.
12:37 🧠 Growing up with a narcissistic parent can result in an overactive amygdala, impacting emotional responses throughout life.
13:17 ⚙ Family anxiety and reactivity tend to perpetuate through generations, influencing our coping mechanisms and emotional responses.
13:44 🔄 Intergenerational trauma, stemming from narcissistic abuse, can persist and affect subsequent generations.
14:22 🛠 Growing up in environments lacking self-regulation, typical in narcissistic households, can hinder our ability to self-regulate as adults.
@dameanvil
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THESE DETAIL NOTES. IT IS EXTREMELY HELPFUL TO READ. I THINK I AM GOING TO COPY THEM TO HAVE AS A REFERENCE FOR MYSELF. THANK YOU!!
Thank you for the detailed recap!
Thank you!
Thank you very much
Thank you soooo much! 💜
100% relatable. Thank you for explaining these things, it wasn't until 8 years ago I realized the low level unease I felt constantly was anxiety. Your videos help me make sense of this.
My Dad said to me not tell anyone else if I have a problem tell him or my mom or keep it to myself.
He also opened my payslips and bank statements
Jerry, it's like you were there! All the points you make apply to our mother, and some to our father as he enabled her so that he wouldn't be her primary target.
I finally walked away at age 46, about 2-1/2 years after Dad was killed, as Mom kept seeking supply at the expense of her children, especially us scapegoats. At the time I chalked her problem up to envy, as she constantly compared her lot to everyone else's and reliably cast herself as the world's greatest superlative, or as the world's biggest victim. Even as she lay dying, given COVID by her golden child, she was still seeking supply, still pretending her problems were the fault of everyone else.
Thanks for your incredible work. My parents fought every day. I'm in my 60's and realized I don't miss them. I was left on my own at 15-16.
They signed me over to marry my boyfriend so I wouldn't be living in sin. I look back, since I'm in my 60's and I realize they had deep personal issues. I was a survivor and got an education and degree. I went through a horrible situation. I have done my self-care and learned a lot. I hope those in my situation never give up. You are doing a great service.
My mom’s favorite thing to say to me when I wanted to do something/anything was “It’s just a phase, you’ll get over it” 🙄
Excellent video. Does anyone keep a journal? My problem is that I keep thinking my narc mother will change so I let my guard down over and over. I know she baits me, but I still get caught off guard when things *seem* harmonious. I need the journal as a reminder of how she treats me over and over. That roller coaster really describes my relationship with her. I'm definitely better at grey rock around her, but I have a hopeful part of me that still gets blindsided if I let my guard down.
I have filled almost seven journals in the past few years since I’ve realized what family scapegoating is. When my father first got custody of my siblings and I my journal was taken away from me and I was given the silent treatment for several months. I was already so traumatized from being taken from my mom by surprise one day at school.
That is tricky since what happened to us was so unnatural that a part of us deep down still can't believe it. It slowly gets better over time. Even if you don't keep a journal you can copy and paste the points in various videos that especially spoke to you. Keep them all on a page and read them before the next visit with your mother. Another is to have a subscription to the most relevant channels and watch them every week or so. And of course if you can, try to see or talk to your mother less often.
@@dnk4559Sending you hugs, and I hope you're in a situation now where you can journal privately. ❤
@@lesliegann2737I agree! It isn't natural at all to be treated so poorly by those who are supposed to be protecting us (in childhood) ... and only natural to expect that they be supportive people in our lives when we're older. Thank you for the great tips. I'm hoping the journal will allow me to accept the reality of the pattern. I do need to keep my distance more, too. Crazy as it sounds, I'm thinking of putting up sticky notes around my house, "remember not to take the bait." Fortunately I live alone.
@@liana2136 I hear you. We do need our supposed family to be supportive as we get older but nada. They even get worse. Fortunately for me my parents are passed and I went no contact with my one sibling a few years ago. I was sick of not being treated with basic respect as if I'm the defective one in the family. He drank mother dearest's kool-aide. I've kept a journal of all the crazy making shit just in case he ever decided to get in contact with me again. Good luck with your situation and getting some distance!
Feeling unloved and uncared for so you spend time isolated and talking outloud to yourself to help build confidence and learn who you truly are and trying to stay far away as possible so you could figure out if your the problem or the narcissistic parent or partner 😢
Don't forget siblings, my older brother is the 'golden child' heavily parentified and never really had a healthy relationship with any woman. Ironically, you think he would look out for the younger siblings, nope. He is a super narc, any chance he gets to talk down to you he will take even though his life is a living hell. These people are very messed up and don't feel like anything is wrong with them, best to stay away. Good friends and actually knowing who I am have helped tremendously. Sending you love and strength @DeebieBoy.
the worst isn't even the narc family members. It's when your narc spouse or friends, ally up with your family members to 'outshine' you or also make you a scapegoat. It seems to confirm your doubts about yourself, and leaves you habitually afraid to 'try'. Anything that brings out the potential risk of failure, causes you to give up.
Yeah it's a terrible feeling when you realise your partner and friends don't actually like you and are trying to hurt and sabotage you. I had to leave my abusive ex and end contact with all my old friends once I realised what was happening. I have met good people since but I'm still building a support network, it takes time and effort and feels very challenging, frightening and lonely. But it's better than being around my old abusive friends and sociopathic ex.
@@FreedomAboveAll4 How do you cope with the loneliness? I spend most of my time alone now and sometimes it makes me feel like I'm dying. I used to be part of two hobby groups but they got shut down and disbanded due to funding. I also had a wonderful cat but she passed away suddenly last year. I've struggled with deep depression since then, I just try to keep going but I still spend an hour or more crying most days. I already rebuilt my life once after leaving my ex but I'm having to do it again and it's so daunting and I feel so tired. I feel like people can tell I'm traumatised and depressed because they avoid me when I really need to make new connections to rebuild my life.
@@FreedomAboveAll4 Yeah I think you're right, I'm grieving my old life and it's very painful. My life has been like yours except I volunteered with these groups two days a week and I had my beloved cat. My cat and the groups were like my family, they were genuinely good people and my cat was an angel. I'm an introvert but a sociable introvert so I've found the loneliness really difficult. I'm going to try to get a new job and then adopt another animal companion once I'm ready. Thanks for sharing your experience, it helps to talk to people honestly without having to pretend I'm happy.
@katec9893 We are very similar. For a while I've been working very hard on my healing so I'm doing better now, but I was eerily similar to you.
Some of the things I did to head in a better direction...
- I realized I was consumed with compulsive self-hatred, so I started treating myself with all the compassion I could manage. It was difficult at first, because narcs had trained me to feel that self-compassion was dangerous. But that difficulty was just a sign of how badly I needed self-compassion, so it became my highest priority.
- I realized I had nonstop negative ruminations that were feeding my severe depression. Then I realized that listening to audiobooks threw a wrench into the ruminations. Now there is always an audio playing through my bluetooth speakers, every day. I download them free from the public library.
- For years I had wanted to learn to knit so I taught myself by watching videos. Then I read about other knitters who knit shawls for friends who needed a hug, so I knit beautiful shawls for myself, to give myself a hug. I was knitting for years just for myself before I started knitting for others. (And audiobooks and knitting are perfect companions!) Next I want to take art lessons. Since you already have hobbies you like you might explore joining another hobby group. If one doesn't work for you accept that it wasn't meant to be. Take a deep breath, and then look for another; just don't give up. Check libraries, churches, volunteer organizations. And since you like cats you might consider volunteering at an animal shelter, which will also get you connected to other humans. If necessary, start slow so you don't get overwhelmed too soon.
- When not listening to audiobooks I started listening to soft/soothing music. I've been streaming and downloading free music through my public library. After a few years I now have several GBs of legally free music stored on my phone, playing through my bluetooth speakers.
- I bought myself a few new perfumes, which I also wear daily just around the house, just for myself. They make me smile more often. 🥰
- After a few false starts I now have a social life again with wonderful friends. I found them because of my knitting, but they are the sweetest/kindest people I've ever known. We meet for coffee and/or lunch every week. Key was learning to recognize toxic people, and learning to say "no" so I could keep a clear space for something better.
- To attend to the introvert part of myself I took walks in the park alone, visited art museums alone, went to the zoo alone, watched sunsets alone.
Best wishes! 💞
I never learnt how to properly express my anger. Starting from childhood , I was often told by my surprised peers that I never got angry no matter what. Well, I didn’t know how to as I was never allowed to express any feelings at home. Also, compared to what abuse went on at home, whatever my peers did couldn’t even compare. So even if the actions of my peers annoyed or angered me, I would just keep it to myself; as there were only two ways known to me for anger: either suppress it or have an explosive meltdown like that of my parents. There was no in-between. So, I chose to suppress all my feelings all the time.
I am currently grappling with this. Jerry I appreciate you and these videos.
I'm glad you found it helpful, thanks for watching
I’m autistic my abusive ego maniacal step dad who was a cop has turned my entire family against me he even turned my own mom against me I’m totally alone I have no one in my life my step dad has undermined me constantly my entire life he forced me into everything he ever wanted and he called me retard stupid handicap dum he even paid people to snitch on me and to physically hurt me anytime he wanted and I finally snapped I stood up I called him out as a narcissist abusive ego maniac and now he’s turned my entire family against me
I'm so sorry. That is the worst thing anyone can do. It is absolutely evil. These people are so sick in the head it is disgusting. The fact that they get away with it is also disgusting. I think that it really shows you the truth about others by the ease they believe these liers. At least you know who they are now so you don't waste any more time thinking they are sincere. You win.
Now you know, like many others and I are learning, you can go forward and continue to be healed. I'm so sorry that you suffered. Hopefully, blessings chase you for the best happy outcomes! ❤
Given the inner turmoil abuse creates, I can understand the urge to just feel right...Alcohol, drugs, antisocial behavior..
Threat of abandonment lasted from 14-40. I made the break a few months ago. I can't be manipulated like that anymore. It's so scary as a young girl to feel like you're about to get thrown out and then it inevitability happens even when you are behaving. Then you do act out because of frustration or fear and then we get thrown out for our "bad behaviour". Just goes round in circles
Yup forces you to either have a knee jerk reaction due to always needing to watch your back or simply right out split, bye bye 👋 relationship/job over cuz you're too mad and they've some nerve!
(2nd time time typing this, 1st post disappeared, apologies if it’s doubled)
13:40 After 2 toxic relationships in college and a year out, my sense of reality was crushed. I went voluntarily celibate while undergoing several years of counseling+CBT.
I was blessed to have that relationship trauma because it took me to the rock bottom needed to get help. Then I realized that if not for the double wake up calls, I very well may have repeated the cycle.
For anyone here mentioning narc parents, etc. please get counseling and healing, lest you repeat the cycle unwittingly. As Jesus said, “forgive them Father for they know not what they do.” Unwittingly becoming the narcissist while seeing ourselves as a victim is a road leading to a wide gate of doom.
Jerry, your videos started appearing on my feed and every single one of them makes perfect sense to me. I was particularly vulnerable to this because I'm also neurodivergent. I can't tell you the rage I feel towards my mother. Yet, I'm playing straight into her hands, that's exactly what the intention was all along. It's a very painful process to come to terms with your own mother being the enemy
That’s me! Grew up reactive and it made things worse between her and me.
The crux issue is the lack of boundaries and privacy. On some level my mom understands that people need boundaries, but my grandmother didn't. There was no funeral, and just us and the grave-diggers at her burial.
There are no techniques in dealing with these people, just the realization your life is your own. Epictetus' stoicism has always had tremendous appeal. Even if I was born a slave, I don't have to live as one!
All this stuff I'm learning about myself.. I've learned that I have been stifled in my confidence and my creative energy. And it's not just narcissistic parents, but we live in an EXTREMELY narcissistic soceity as well. So it compounds.
program.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/welcome/
My mom is more avoidant/authoritarian. So i blow up, i get loud, to her bulldozing, when she tries to rewrite what i know to be reality. She does it a lot. Yet because she did not raise her volume, she maintains that i am the offender. My siblings used to believe her, but as we spend more time without her as adults, i am noticing the way they act around me is starting to open up. She made them fear me, when i wouldnt go along with her version of the story. The insults and dehumanization i was responsing to are never acknowledged. The youngest child is later 20s and it never stopped, only got deeper in manipulation. My dad passed believing he was a burden.
When my husband tried to gaslight with bullying behavior I had to record him to validate my experience to keep from going crazy and keep in reality what was going on. Then I confronted his behavior when he was sober. Once confronted with the truth he chose to enter into a recovery program.
My late husband was like this…..his nervous system was so shot after decades of scapegoating….. he did EMDR, hypnosis, cbt, and was loved my his own little family 💙♥️
Covert narcissists who placate abusive narcissist spouces tend to sneaky quiet abuse to upset children to react outwardly to divert the abuse off of themselves and onto the children who can't physically defend themselves. "See they're the problem, not my housekeeping, etc." (or other nonsense used for blaming on the scale of demanded perfection).
Facts
They didn't speak to me. I'm proud of myself for learning English in spite of this.
Really good information. Makes a lot of sense of my inability to deal with my family after I differentiated at the ripe age of 26
In what ways did you differentiate? I’m going through the same thing (and I’m also 26).
It's taken me over 30 years to understand this 😢.... thank you
Working through this pain is very difficult. My mother doesn't validate any of my emotions, when im really happy or what I have come to realise is far worse, my emotional pain. She wanted all issues and problems to disappear. All my difficulties swept under the carpet. She is "loving and warm" to me only when im presenting a picture of everything is okay and bland and fits with what she expects. Just two days I was yellow rocking as this keeps conversation flowing and stops her and sing me anything important. Telling her anything important only gets me the you should, ought to ........ and leaves me in a tail spin. She just wants and always has wanted the fawning, the pretending that everything is alright no matter what. The only time emotions are allowed are when they're hers!
YOU DESCRIBE IT ALL PERFECTLY!!
We're also belittled about our struggles. Anything that we're struggling with or weak. I'm 61-year-old rather frail woman, with lifelong limitinh/debilitating health problems and trauma as you can guess, and my almost 82 year old father is still denigrating me when I struggle.
When he has a struggle, I'm supposed to baby him, but if I try to then he says oh I don't need anything I'm always good I can handle it - he's so stoic yet whiny, aggressively & covertly needy. But yet he pulls on me and gets angry if I don't try to pet him. there's absolutely no where to stand, it's a razor's edge - damned if I do & if I don’t!
I'm sure he also went through these things and is unbelievably insecure while acting aggressively confident because of the abuse he went through, because his father was abused and his mother abandoned etc. It all goes through the families generation after generation?
I have someone else in my life like this too, and their birthdays are one day apart though different years, for those of you interested in astrology lol.
When he's nice he's very nice and when he's bad he's horrid, just like the nursery rhyme. This was true of a number of people in my family of origin! What a confusing twisty minefield and damaging roller coaster 😢
You describe my childhood too. If I go right they go left, if I go slow they shove me forward faster... if I speed up they jerk me back and slow me down. If I go up they go down, if I'm sad I'm not happy enough to them, if I'm happy I'm out of control and not sad and calm enough for them.
It's constant micro control !!
Everybody in my family is diagnosable but only one has been diagnosed with anything, and very late in life.
I went to see what was wrong with me, but was been diagnosed with just extreme generalized anxiety, neuronal burnout/damaged neurons etc from lifelong extreme stress, and C-PTSD 😔
Yes I'm so tired of scanning & navigating constantly! My brain is literally exhausted and undoubtedly shrunken from all that I've gone through with that, constantly scanning for multiple multiple people, on jobs, landlords, housemates, family, dealing with the poverty of it all too sick to work all my life, though working hard anytime I was able at any job I could get for as long as I could manage to keep it... and so on.
Nowhere to stand nowhere to be. Not allowed to explore my dreams to shape sense of self, to learn, grow, experience, accomplish, like you said. It's like having your hands cut off or something.
Until I was about 4 or 5 years old, my dad thought it was funny to put his hand on my forehead and hold me back, then tell me to punch at him and try to move forward, and he would laugh and think it was funny that he was holding a little girl back while making her have to move and struggle against him.
He loves putting women into struggle sessions! There were other things that I won't share, but I refer to them as non-erotic emotional incest and such, carried out on me and my sibling. Things we thought were just rough parts of how parents act, but no, they were hideous damaging and freaking weird.
Yeah they don't respect our boundaries and they don't treat us with respect but disrespect!! Why we have to phone and show respect to them inordinately! I share all of this just because it's coming up in my mind and I know other people's comments have helped me immensely, so if something I say help somebody else get in touch with their reality, that's why I share it ❤
I'm talking about it in the negative, because I'm getting in touch with it in this moment, but there is healing! 😊 THANK YOU for all you do, and I will look into taking your courses or whatever as soon as I can! Valuing your videos highly and helping myself heal through them!
Good job! You've touched on many points that apply to the way that I was raised. One was " parentification" - expecting me to be their parent while they held all of the keys of control. Talk about being put into an unfair situation.
Thank you for making me feel that, at least someone understands.
Thank you. Broken people are allowed to breed the next generation. But you need a license to drive.
The thing is...most people will not stop having sex. Animals will not stop sex. Even not in war times.
Every man wants sex.
Every woman is groomed to have sex anyway.
So, many people get babies.
Nature allways find ways to just have sexual tendencies.
Knowing this, is important.
No animal goes first to get a licence to have sex, mate either.
We only can make some choices, if we think deep. I never met a man who for instance did NOT WANT SEX, before getting a licence, just in case, if a baby is in the making.
Just figure, if no contraception would exist.
The truth is, we are all victims in a way. Some try to think and work on themselves.
@@heide-raquelfuss5580 Agreed, you can't control human nature, best you can do is be aware of it and set functional boundaries.
Yes! I’ve always said that good parenting should be taught in every school year from middle school onwards. Were told, “oh, you’ll just figure it out as you go along”, and this is where that philosophy has gotten us. Human life and growth shouldn’t just be left to chance. Imagine what society would be like if people were taught how to be good, thoughtful parents. It was because of the way my narcissistic mother instilled her messages into me that made me decide never to have children, because I didn’t want to take even a single chance of damaging my potential children the way she damaged me, and really, the only way we learn how to be a parent is from the way our parents parented us.
@@kgs2280while I agree it’s cool if schools teach kids what is good parenting and what is abuse(including any types of abuse), as mandatory education, but it won’t never happens because the vast majority of educators are also narcissistic people.
@@bonitobonita9263 That’s a very interesting point of view. I’ll have to mull that over for a while.
You have described my mother very aptly. At the age of 8 I was forced to start making decisions for the family because my mother didn't know how to cope with the everyday situations in life. She was always a very "tense" person and had no warmth at all. When she made a decision it was usually not a good one and I can't tell you how many times I heard my father say "why did you do that" to her when they were discussing something. At an even younger age, about 4-5, I remember questioning why my mother would do something because that just didn't make any sense to me; then when I'd hear my father ask my mother "why" she made that decision I knew something wasn't right. I didn't have a childhood and she tried to rob me of a life as an adult by telling lies about me to my sisters, and sadly they believed my mother and wouldn't listen to me. More often than not I didn't even know to what they were referring until I asked more questions and then I realized what had occurred. I loved mother but I did not like her as she was nasty and mean more often than not. I am hoping she finally found some peace when she passed several years ago, but I will just about guarantee that she was arguing with her Maker when she passed; it's who she was and how she was, and she always had to be right about everything but was more often wrong, and my sisters are just like her, and needless to say, they are both very unhappy people with few friends. Narcissists make life very difficult for themselves as well as anyone around them. Thank you for what you have shared with us.
Knowledge is power! Thank you Mr. Wise!
I was harranged 5 days a week over anything I'd ever done wrong. My dad was home the other 2 days. Anytime I might feel ok about myself or hopeful things would be better, zing. Never a compliment. Never happy to be at school functions. Never happy to spend time.
My reactivity leads to rage that I can't always dampen. It's just washes over me, I would like to be able to regulate, but I have such difficulty. Your comments make me think if I rage at toxic treatment, I may be a narcissist!?! I, at least, am trying for balance. I'm 72 years old and still working on this, and it's still traumatic.
I have trouble with my temper too. I have rage and pain inside. I am going to try EFT therapy. "Tapping". It ,ight help you too. I'm 66 y o.
my struggle is that i feel the best thing to do is to not acknowledge anyone in public, since i dont know how they'll respond to even a 'hello' or 'good day' but then i realize that not acknowledging people is also seen as rude to some. so im in this toss up of fear that no matter how i respond i can come off as offensive no matter what. so its better i just never leave my home.
Just try and be polite to people. Smile and say hello, or don’t if you don’t feel like it. How they react is up to them. You’re not responsible if people feel offended. I can’t imagine people will feel offended - they have their own worries in life and just getting on with things. Don’t stay at home because of this. Just go out and do what you want to do and be civil to people and that’s fine.
If you don’t know what the social rules are, or you think you have real anxiety around this, do try and get help - someone to talk to about this.
This gave me crazy anxiety. You nailed it. Whew. *stunned*
What’s worse is/was being ADHD during this.
This all resonates with me so much 😫
Makes a whole lot of sense.
May we all blossom and never be chained again 🌻
Love and light always 🌻
May we forgive ourselves and others 🌻
Your comments and teaching brings the problems to light. Expose my upbringing so l can bring it to the perfect one, king Jesus!!!
Bingo
I was having a really bad day...I tuned in to get validation...yeah..there is a REALLY good reason why I have days like this.
Thank you.
This it’s Exactly what happened to me , I’m really Healing from it Now , and healed a Lot , Millions Of Thank you❤