As someone who's sold 3D printers with PTFE liner hotends and who's selling all metal hot end upgrades all of the time, here's the same advice I give to any customer who's asking for my opinion on the issue: If you're printing PLA most of the time - stay away from all metal hotends unless you're upgrading your extruder setup too AND are willing to REALLY fine tune your retraction settings or you'll end up with lots of clogged nozzles and/or failed prints...aaand even then your PLA prints most likely will look worse than they could if you used the stock hotend. There's a good reason why all the cheap 3D printers come with PTFE liner hotends. They work really really REALLY well with PLA. (Did I mention they work really well?) In essence: PLA/PLA+ -> PTFE liner/stock hotends PETG, ABS, Nylon, ASA, etc. -> all metal hotend For most people the PLA(+) route is just fine. I've dealt with far more issues from people who felt they had to "upgrade" their perfectly fine stock printers due to some perceived drive to "upgrade" to a "better" all metal hotend than with actual 3D printing related issues based on the process itself. Most people getting into 3D printing, don't NEED all metal hot ends AT ALL, yet are made to believe those are somehow "better" and one of the "first upgrades" one has to make. I've had customers who hadn't printed anything at ALL and were dealing with all metal hot end upgrade related issues. 😒 These are the same people who quickly quit, due to the hobby being "too frustrating". If you're new to the hobby, take your time. Most probably you chose a machine based on (hopefully genuine) positive reviews. These reviews were most probably based on the fact that the machine is a good product. Take your time to get to know the machine, the process. Take your time to gain some first hand experience. Don't "upgrade" anything until you know what you're doing...
@@Wrublos212I can successfully print Local brand PETG with stock, 1st layer 235 C the rest only 223 C very stick to masking tape. But when it last i change to Esun PETG, only start to stick at 248 C 1st layer (not strong also) then hotend clogging happened :(
Thanks Chris. The main reason I swapped to all metal is the Gunk the eventually push the PTFE tube up and clogs the hotend. All metal is less maintenance. You may still get clogs when settings are wrong (some PLA brands are more prone, like filament diameter or temp settings) but it happens way less.
My first printer was the original Ender 3. My first upgrade was to fit a genuine Micro Swiss all metal hot end. In my opinion getting rid of the tricky and inconsistent Bowden tube-nozzle interface was well worth the cost and my main reason for the upgrade. I developed my PLA+ profile to mitigate stringing with the maximum retraction of 4mm. There are a number of other settings other than retraction that can be used to get rid of stringing. Also I was printing a lot of PETG and high temperature CF filament.
Don't forget if you want to print at higher temps you need to replace your stock thermistor. The stock one that comes with an Ender 3/pro/v2 is covered in PTFE as well.
I have found that no matter how well the PTFE tube is seated against the nozzle, the PTFE tube will move over time and you get partial clogs and under-extrusion. An all metal hotend removes that problem. I have been using all metal for a long time, never had any clogs or jamming. I think most problems people have stem from not tuning and to much retraction.
@@user-yk1cw8im4h You're wrong here. I might be new to the 3D printing but have 20 odd years in industrial electro-mechanical engineering behind me. Checked most of them "experts" out there. Here you get great hands on information, honest opinion without the marketing bullshit. Chris is a reflection of most of us, with no fancy workshops and studios, just people who love their hobby and dong things in their basements, or sheds, or spare rooms. And fair play to him sharing his experience with the rest of us
I switch to AMH and get a lot of jam on sticky filament like Sunlu silk PLA. Unlike PTFE lined one, when that PLA sticks to metal tube, it really sticks so much so it has to be heated outside heatsink to knock it out. So, if you use lots of cheap filaments, which are more prone to be sticky, AMH might be a problem.
I have seen that kind of thing before. I have dipped the end of my filament in vegetable oil and ran it through the hotend before and that has slowed it down some.
Micro-swiss recommends changing retraction to 4mm or under, or you risk jams (and it would be even shorter with direct drive). This would probably help with the smokestack as well. I have never noticed all-metal hotends to be jamming more with PLA. I think most people who have jams are running with too high retraction.
Thanks - A nice straight forward comparison for us PLA users 😎 One thing I'd definitely recommend though is initially only heating to around 100-110 before pulling the PLA out for a nozzle change, so it comes out in 1 piece and stops it gunking up and creating a mess between the new nozzle and PTFE, which in turn creates extrusion or retraction problems.
I print a lot of ABS and ASA on my Ender 3 Pro, in a heated enclosure. Switching to the Micro Swiss all-metal hotend and hardened nozzle has made the prints a little more consistent, and I have found that I am doing a lot less maintenance. (and yes, it took a lot of fiddling with tuning everything to get looking good. But I think it was worth it.)
I just bought a Micro Swiss block for my setup. The OEM block's set screws striped out and recently fell out during a print job. I really like the quality of Micro Swiss's products. Nice video!
I just upgraded to on and my main reason is to be able to install a quieter Noctua fan and not worry about heat creep, and easier maintenance. I've found removing Capricorn tubing from the stock mount really hard without doing a bunch of work. The titanium heatbreak really keeps the cooling zone and hot-end temps isolated really well. A bit of work to get rid of stringing (I had to lower temps to 195 after a PID tune and reduce retraction to like 1.5mm. Not for everyone but having better, and more reliable parts is my main goal.
The worst part is the heat block. only a matter of time until it starts spinning because it lacks the 2 screw holes on the sides even though the heat sink has the threads. I eventually tossed it and used the stock one.
Thanks for the video Chris. I switched to the Micro swiss and I have had a lot of problems. Sometime I get good prints and sometimes failure. Still working on it. I recently noticed I have to level bed before every print. Everything looks good, nothing loose. Maybe a pid tune is needed. Thanks
Correct me if I'm wrong isn't the MicroSwiss nozzle a shallower pitched point as well? I say this because I know one I tried a few years ago was too shallow to use on the belt printer..
@@ChrisRiley Yea, I really wish they would make there nozzles pointed as steep as a standard MK8. If they did they would be a perfect replacement for the Cr-30 too..
I wish Micro Swiss would do something about the Bowden collet like getting rid of it and using a PC4-M10 as after a couple of months of usage the Bowden tube starts riding up and down, I fixed mine by roughing up the outer surface and wrapping some PTFE tape around it and fixing it with some Kapton tape, that locked the tube back in the collet
I upgraded my Hotend. And ever since I have had really bad under extrusion. Any tips? I’ve re-calibrated everything and still the same. Only thing I have left to tune is my retraction
Retraction could be the problem. For this hotend, try to set it down to 2mm just for a test. You might be pulling the filament to far back into the cold zone.
I have done this three times now. Every time it ended in heat-creep clogs in the heat-break. EVERY TIME. I am converting my current Ender3 Pron over to the Wham Bam Mutant ecosystem so that I can just print PLA with the PTFE tube setup that works well with PLA, and use an all-metal for PETG and nylons. SO SICK of banging my head against that wall.
Any clue what the issue might be? Do you think it's the amount of cooling on the hotend? Is the thermistor reading the correct temp? MicroSwiss have any thoughts?
@@ChrisRiley I haven't had good luck with 3D printing in general since I started messing around with an FLSUN delta in 2016. I am in the middle of my second scratch-built CNC router running LinuxCNC and that thing is gonna work. But somehow I can find a way to make an Ender3 Pro reliably choke on PLA. Every time that I have tried to setup an all metal hot-end for all filaments it's gone this way, doesn't matter which machine. Heat break material hasn't mattered - stainless, titanium, doesn't matter, it always ends with clogging on every print. I'm just tired of fighting it. I need PLA for lost PLA casting and for cheap prototyping. I also need an all-metal hot end for printing Polymaker PA6-CF into functional parts, among other nylons. Therefore I'm going to return to the Unix way, and Do ONE Thing, and Do it WELL - so each hot end will be built specifically for the material family being run through it. I have a Slice Engineering Copperhead showing up which is joining a new MicroSwiss plated copper heater block + ruby nozzle for the nylon hot end, and I have the stock Ender hot end handling PLA just fine with Capricorn tubing. Heck, I can add a Bondtech CHT to the PLA nozzle and it should be better than fine. The Mutant will allow for easy swapping between them.
@@ChrisRiley And it's just occurring to me that you might think that I am saying that the Copperhead clogged. I haven't received it yet. Miscommunication, my bad.
@@ChrisRiley UPDATE: Got the Slice installed with the Microswiss plated copper heatblock. So far I've only printed PETG with it, and the prints have all been flawless without a single hint of an issue. The old block had oozed and that turned out to be the source of the clogging problem and I couldn't see it through the stock mounting shroud. Currently printing up a Bullseye cooling system for it - hopefully it will have enough adjustment because the Slice hot end is longer than stock. Bondtech CHT just showed up. I'ave already got a dual-gear extruder setup so hopefully I should be able to keep it fed.
Funny story about a week ago I accidentally bridged my thermistor and heater wire with pliers. Never do this btw. Have had to replace the board and thermistor so far not sure if I also borked the heater cartridge
@@ChrisRiley ender up replacing board (skr mini 2.0) and thermistor. So like 65 to get it back up and going. Not terrible but could of been avoided had I not been improperly holding the heater block during nozzle changes
Hey Chris, Thank you for your amazing & easy to follow videos. I am swapping my Ender 5 Plus to an all metal this weekend! Where did you get the torque wrench? Have a great day, Charlie
The problem with those screws going from the heater block to the heatsink is heat creep. Hence, they've probably found, when designing their hotend, that with those screws on an all metal hotend you can get heat creep going into the cold end, which leads to jams. Yeah, it's a pita not having those screws to secure the heater block and keep the heat break from loosening, but it works better more often than not without them.
@@serinfel you'd think so but they don't. Chep has an entire video dedicated to proving it doesn't effect heat creep at all. I have dragon and mosquito hot ends on all machines and they have 4 screws in each and are made to be the hottest hot end on the market and will never have heat creep. They are the best hot ends you can get. They better be at almost 100 bucks a piece. It definitely seems like they'd cause heat creep but surprisingly enough do not. Ptef lined hot ends and high heat are what you want stay away from.
Tiny machines 3d installed a microswiss on my Ender 3 before shipping. In 2 years I've had only 1 clog. Couldn't explain it, but cleared w/o taking things apart. Retraction should be no more than 4mm w/ an all metal though. I needed 4. With linear advance I only needed 1.3. With direct drive and pressure advance I'm down to 0.4.
Are there ANY insights as to why a _USA_ based company with ( apparently? ) no ties to _Switzerland_ call itself Micro _Swiss_ going even so far as to using a proportionally off Swiss flag in their Company logo? 😑
Chris not sure if you’ll see this or not. I mentioned in a previous video that I was trying out bearings from a place called Squishworx. I finally was able to try them. I purchased a full set for an Mk3 build and half of them were junk.
if you really want to improve the ender extruder all you need to do is to exchange the heat break with the one from Slice engineering. ( copperhead C-E variant)
This works better... no this works better... NO!... Chris: it’s time to science the shit outta this! I fucking love science videos. Sub’d for the dedication. Edit: I’m already sub’d, duh!
great content and yes some PLA do stick to the Microswiss , it drove me Nuts on my first swap out 2 years ago... PLA only ? use a bowden system with a lightweight hot end to gain speed ...
@@ChrisRiley it's _almost_ that, except it's not PLA sticking to the hotend, but PLA expanding inside the heatbreak's cold end/zone, and that's why all metal hotends manufacturers recommend to limit your retraction length (as the filament has a more define cold/hot transition zone, it's not a problem to get string-free prints with lower values) and in some cases you need thermal paste between the heatbreak and radiator (E3D didn't really want to acknowledge it at first, but that's also why V6 are now shipped with a bag of thermal grease that's """""optional""""" *wink wink* ;) the thermal paste just help to make sure your cold zone doesn't "heat creep" on your PLA, i'd say not all threads are equals and that's why "round mounts" like the MicroSwiss doesn't need thermal paste)
Great and honest opinion on why you should/should not upgrade to allmetal, however.... why the ancient Micro Swiss hotend? we've come a long way since then, bi-metal heatbreaks! either a high quality one from Trianglelab or similar which is compatible with stock hotend, or why not get a Phaetus Dragonfly BMS (replaces stoch hotend directly) with heatblock to handle temps as high as 450c or something. gets you haflway to high temp filaments! (heater cartridge+thermistor and fw left). How about a comparison maybe? ;) microswiss VS dragonfly vs stock with bi-metal heatbreak/throat
Do you have any thoughts about installation of a bi-metal heat break? Seems to be an inexpensive way to get an all metal hot end. I see Slice Engineering sells them to fit an Ender 3. They are also available from AliExpress.
Great information Chris. I do have a question. I print mostly PETG. I would say 99% of the time. Would this make my print more consistent in the case of heating. Right now I have to slow it down to about 50 mm/s. And even then I experience jamming ever so often. Usually after I clear the jam I am good to go again.
I do have an update. Looks like my cooling fan for the heat sync on the hot end was failing. It would stop working not the print. I saw it happen. I happen to have a new stock fan and everything works now. 👍🏼
Hey Chris, any chance you could do a deep dive on part cooling and bridging/overhangs in the future? Would love your sage advice on how to improve in this area!
Hey Chris. Recently got the direct drive hot end from microswiss. It’s been sort of hot and miss. But what I’m really struggling with is the actual firmware update.. I can’t seem to find a video of how or what to recalibrate in terms of the firmware. I’m just trying to get a basic understanding of the coding and also the correct way to actually get it to flash to my Ender 5. Please tell me you have a video for this. I don’t really trust anyone else other than you my friend🤞🏻
Hey, if you are just wanting to get into flashing Marlin, I would check these out. VScode setup : th-cam.com/video/JWUcnkjeNU8/w-d-xo.html Basic marlin from example config: th-cam.com/video/1PPBHn-jU0k/w-d-xo.html If it's just for tuning in your extruder, you should have to change the firmware, most of that can be done with a couple of commands saved in eeprom.
I have the micro swiss hot end and so far it's been great but I really wish I knew about slice engineering creality style heat breaks before purchasing. Would have gone that route and slowly upgraded to the complete copper head hotend
Please do one with an ender 3 with a v6 hotend in bowden. I could not get good pla prints, and e3d themselves couldn't figure it out. They told me after a two week troubleshooting period, to just keep using it in direct drive. There's hundreds of people online with the same jamming and failure issue with no resolution. Maybe if a big name person like yourself points it out, they'll fix it, or quit advertising it to be used in bowden.
@@ChrisRiley oh please do! I can email you the back and forth I had with E3D. I've tried the v6 on an ender 3 with a dual geared extruder, an ezr extruder, and on a Tronxy X5SA pro both ways as well. Always jams or clogs. Direct drive was the only way to get it to work. Comparitively, the microswiss had no issues. Google "e3d v6 bowden jams" and see the sea of people with issues. I even used a 5015 blower on the heatsink to ensure cooling was not an issue.
Hi chris, I have a question for you, I need help for choosing a new 3d printer with warm bed with a print size of at least 350x350 and direct drive. Now I have a clone prusa bear created by me with skr 1.3. Can you help me?
Great vid! One question tho.. In order to print nylon (all metal hotend is to print with high temps) the temperature must be higher than stock. How do you up that temp?
Slice a square box with 0 infill and 1 line width perimeter (i.e. 0.4 wall thickness). With bottom thickness set to 0.4 and top thickness set to zero so you will print a hollow box. Then print and measure the actual wall thickness. Flow rate controls the extruder length so make sure your E steps are set correctly.
So I made this mod to my Ender 3 (I made my own parts) so I could eventually print ABS, PETG, Nylon, and Polycarbonate (the holy grail). Now I'm having serious issues printing ABS. Seems like retract issues, but just can't nail it down. Parts look horrible. The surface finish looks like sharks' skin and I get a lot of plastic deposition back onto the nozzle. Not sure what to do. HELP?
I suffered with ABS too - built an enclosure, used the bed around 95° and let that heat it up, and print slooooowly 25-30 mm/s with the hotend at 250-260 so the layers have time to fuse together. I eventually got good results and usable parts. I left the retract settings the same, at about 6.2 mm, and I always used lift, wipe and avoid traversing perimeters. A bigger nozzle diameter can also help with remelting the layers together. Lots to play with, and it can take weeks to get right!
Why do they use titanium heat break when cheaper nickel has half the thermal conductivity of titanium? Is it because of the hardness? Couldn't they just use 304 stainless steel as most materials are soft enough, even carbon fibres, to not need the hardness of titanium while 304 has similar or less thermal conductivity and good enough hardness? It seems that Micro Swiss are trying to justify bumping up the price for no good reason. Useful video BTW Thanks.
Great video as always :) i for example only upgraded my heatbreak and kept the rest the same, well and a 50w heater cartridge for all printers since i upgraded the CR10 and CR10S to 24v and 220v beds, works like a charm, will test those bimetal heatbreaks at some point
@@ChrisRiley i am sure the microswiss is awesome and quality, with all the other upgrades for 6 printers, i don't see the cost for a microswiss justified, maybe the Nova3d or dragonfly and whatever other high flow options, but keep em coming, absolute joy and wealth of information
Just wondering what your thoughts are Chris, Why would one pick the Micro, over the time tested and proven E3d V6, which is 10usd cheaper? in case others are wondering which to select, But let it be known, I'm bias as threw and through a 100% E3D fanboy lol
Yeah, that easier direct swap is really the best reason to go with Micro swiss, I have never really done a side by with it vs a V6, but it might be interesting.
I just found locally cr10 heatsink that can be installed on e3d block .. its threaded so e3d throat can be installed. Sure direct and easy upgrade for me, btw it still ontheway :)
why wouldnt you calibrate the printer for the microswiss hotend? thats like watching a whole video on converting a car to propane to see how it performs, and testing it with gasoline... I mean, at least retraction.....
@@ChrisRiley I absolutely love your videos, they have been more help to me than anything else. It just really seemed like there should have been a comparison with it tuned for the all metal hotend. It's not really a comparison if it wasn't tuned for it.
For the Love of god and holy why is every single Video at TH-cam showing it wrong...If you Put it together DIY you need to apply Boron Nitride Paste at Sensor and heater. And If you use a coperheatblock and a Steel nozzle it needs Paste there too. The whole Tuning ist useless and will have None or less effect to the original. But thx to videos Like this i got a lot of Work in the printer repair Shop from Guys who follows this.
I kinda get the feeling we hit a plateau with 3D printing. I mean, yeah, these things are nice and all but adding a mosquito extruder with dual bondtech gears, a copperhead heatthroat and an Olsson Ruby nozzle for 8 trillion Dollars for 3% nicer prints just isnt worth it.
This is by far the only useful video about the microswiss, unfortunately I already bought it last week and installed it a day before this video. If you don't have to print carbon fibre filament don't get an all metal hotend it turns PLA into glue. 0.4 nozzles tend to clog often.
No. Change your retraction to under 4mm. Or better yet tune it with a retraction tower, but keep it under 4mm. Print a temp tower as well to find your temps. It should print PLA with no issues at all.
As someone who's sold 3D printers with PTFE liner hotends and who's selling all metal hot end upgrades all of the time, here's the same advice I give to any customer who's asking for my opinion on the issue:
If you're printing PLA most of the time - stay away from all metal hotends unless you're upgrading your extruder setup too AND are willing to REALLY fine tune your retraction settings or you'll end up with lots of clogged nozzles and/or failed prints...aaand even then your PLA prints most likely will look worse than they could if you used the stock hotend.
There's a good reason why all the cheap 3D printers come with PTFE liner hotends. They work really really REALLY well with PLA. (Did I mention they work really well?)
In essence:
PLA/PLA+ -> PTFE liner/stock hotends
PETG, ABS, Nylon, ASA, etc. -> all metal hotend
For most people the PLA(+) route is just fine. I've dealt with far more issues from people who felt they had to "upgrade" their perfectly fine stock printers due to some perceived drive to "upgrade" to a "better" all metal hotend than with actual 3D printing related issues based on the process itself.
Most people getting into 3D printing, don't NEED all metal hot ends AT ALL, yet are made to believe those are somehow "better" and one of the "first upgrades" one has to make. I've had customers who hadn't printed anything at ALL and were dealing with all metal hot end upgrade related issues. 😒 These are the same people who quickly quit, due to the hobby being "too frustrating".
If you're new to the hobby, take your time. Most probably you chose a machine based on (hopefully genuine) positive reviews. These reviews were most probably based on the fact that the machine is a good product. Take your time to get to know the machine, the process. Take your time to gain some first hand experience. Don't "upgrade" anything until you know what you're doing...
Cool, thanks for your insight! 🙂
The best comment here. Thanks! I thought PETG can be printed with stock hotend tho.
@@Wrublos212I can successfully print Local brand PETG with stock, 1st layer 235 C the rest only 223 C very stick to masking tape. But when it last i change to Esun PETG, only start to stick at 248 C 1st layer (not strong also) then hotend clogging happened :(
Hey man what hotbed nozzles would you recommend for an ender 3 v3 ke?
Thanks!
Thanks!
You, my friend, are one of the greatest assets here on TH-cam. Thanks, Chris!
Wow, thanks!
Thanks Chris. The main reason I swapped to all metal is the Gunk the eventually push the PTFE tube up and clogs the hotend. All metal is less maintenance. You may still get clogs when settings are wrong (some PLA brands are more prone, like filament diameter or temp settings) but it happens way less.
Thanks!
My first printer was the original Ender 3. My first upgrade was to fit a genuine Micro Swiss all metal hot end. In my opinion getting rid of the tricky and inconsistent Bowden tube-nozzle interface was well worth the cost and my main reason for the upgrade.
I developed my PLA+ profile to mitigate stringing with the maximum retraction of 4mm. There are a number of other settings other than retraction that can be used to get rid of stringing.
Also I was printing a lot of PETG and high temperature CF filament.
Hey Patrick, you have a point, that is probably the best reason to do this upgrade. The tube has always been a pain.
Great video! I was a little worried about doing this and you showed exactly whatbi needed to know. Very much less intimidating task now
Glad it was helpful!
Don't forget if you want to print at higher temps you need to replace your stock thermistor. The stock one that comes with an Ender 3/pro/v2 is covered in PTFE as well.
🙂👍
I have found that no matter how well the PTFE tube is seated against the nozzle, the PTFE tube will move over time and you get partial clogs and under-extrusion. An all metal hotend removes that problem. I have been using all metal for a long time, never had any clogs or jamming. I think most problems people have stem from not tuning and to much retraction.
I have found the same as well, the retraction has to be adjusted to have success.
My retrctions are 1mm..still cloggs
Seriously, you make the most useful videos!
No, nobody can top teaching tech
@JL 3D Printing good joke.
Glad you think so!
100% with you!!! For complete 3D printing noobs like me, best source of information. Period!!
@@user-yk1cw8im4h You're wrong here. I might be new to the 3D printing but have 20 odd years in industrial electro-mechanical engineering behind me. Checked most of them "experts" out there. Here you get great hands on information, honest opinion without the marketing bullshit. Chris is a reflection of most of us, with no fancy workshops and studios, just people who love their hobby and dong things in their basements, or sheds, or spare rooms. And fair play to him sharing his experience with the rest of us
I switch to AMH and get a lot of jam on sticky filament like Sunlu silk PLA. Unlike PTFE lined one, when that PLA sticks to metal tube, it really sticks so much so it has to be heated outside heatsink to knock it out. So, if you use lots of cheap filaments, which are more prone to be sticky, AMH might be a problem.
I have seen that kind of thing before. I have dipped the end of my filament in vegetable oil and ran it through the hotend before and that has slowed it down some.
Great step by step review and your honest feedback. Not every "upgrade" is going to make better prints, but you pointed out what it will help with
Thanks Dave!
Micro-swiss recommends changing retraction to 4mm or under, or you risk jams (and it would be even shorter with direct drive). This would probably help with the smokestack as well. I have never noticed all-metal hotends to be jamming more with PLA. I think most people who have jams are running with too high retraction.
I was tuning this one after the fact, I got it down to around 2.5mm, seems to work well.
you my friend are my favorite youtuber atm. very concise and straightforward. thank you.
Thank you!
Thanks - A nice straight forward comparison for us PLA users 😎
One thing I'd definitely recommend though is initially only heating to around 100-110 before pulling the PLA out for a nozzle change, so it comes out in 1 piece and stops it gunking up and creating a mess between the new nozzle and PTFE, which in turn creates extrusion or retraction problems.
Thanks for the tip! 🙂
The titanium and the hot end are made to fit together so you have no leakage if put together correctly.
Thanks!
I print a lot of ABS and ASA on my Ender 3 Pro, in a heated enclosure. Switching to the Micro Swiss all-metal hotend and hardened nozzle has made the prints a little more consistent, and I have found that I am doing a lot less maintenance. (and yes, it took a lot of fiddling with tuning everything to get looking good. But I think it was worth it.)
Cool, thanks for your insight!
I wonder if a ceramic tube instead of ptfe , tube inside the all metal hot end would work better
Hmmm, it might. I have seen graphite ones. Not sure how well they worked.
I just bought a Micro Swiss block for my setup. The OEM block's set screws striped out and recently fell out during a print job. I really like the quality of Micro Swiss's products. Nice video!
Thanks!
Love your videos. Clean, informative, and filled with useful information! Watched a few that have really helped me out
Great to hear! Thanks
I just upgraded to on and my main reason is to be able to install a quieter Noctua fan and not worry about heat creep, and easier maintenance. I've found removing Capricorn tubing from the stock mount really hard without doing a bunch of work. The titanium heatbreak really keeps the cooling zone and hot-end temps isolated really well. A bit of work to get rid of stringing (I had to lower temps to 195 after a PID tune and reduce retraction to like 1.5mm.
Not for everyone but having better, and more reliable parts is my main goal.
Great! Thanks for sharing. 🙂
The worst part is the heat block. only a matter of time until it starts spinning because it lacks the 2 screw holes on the sides even though the heat sink has the threads. I eventually tossed it and used the stock one.
Interesting, I will keep an eye out for that.
Thanks for the video Chris. I switched to the Micro swiss and I have had a lot of problems. Sometime I get good prints and sometimes failure. Still working on it. I recently noticed I have to level bed before every print. Everything looks good, nothing loose. Maybe a pid tune is needed. Thanks
Strange, I hope the PID tune will help.
Can you use the terminal from the touch screen on printer to adjust Heat temp on the board?
Yes, you should be able to adjust it from there.
Wondering what the benefits are from just upgrading the bare bones heat break to a Titanium or Bi metal heat beak
I have wondered this as well, at some point I would like to test that.
Correct me if I'm wrong isn't the MicroSwiss nozzle a shallower pitched point as well? I say this because I know one I tried a few years ago was too shallow to use on the belt printer..
Hey Karl, yes it is.
@@ChrisRiley Yea, I really wish they would make there nozzles pointed as steep as a standard MK8. If they did they would be a perfect replacement for the Cr-30 too..
Trimming back the tube a little is also beneficial its usually way longer than needed..
Thanks for the tip!
I wish Micro Swiss would do something about the Bowden collet like getting rid of it and using a PC4-M10 as after a couple of months of usage the Bowden tube starts riding up and down, I fixed mine by roughing up the outer surface and wrapping some PTFE tape around it and fixing it with some Kapton tape, that locked the tube back in the collet
Yeah, these aren't my favorite either, Bondtech has the same issue.
What do you think about the new creality spider hot end?
It looks okay, but I'm not sure it's going to be a lot better than stock. I haven't seen one up close yet to be able to make a judgement.
Thanks, Chris.
You bet!
Would this be a good switch if your tired of bowdem tube gap that causes clogs?
Yes, it gets rid of that problem.
How do you change the printer so you can have a higher upper limit? Mine maxes out pretty low by default.
About your only option would be to reflash the firmware and reset the max temp.
Never seen a jam on a good all metal hotend. Maybe this is just my experience, but I had more problems with a PTFE lined hotends then a dragon hotend.
There are a lot of factors, with proper cooling on all metal I usually never have an issue.
Where did you do the PID settings.? How is this supposed to be done, what program, is it free, and how do you connect the printer to the computer ?
Use Pronterface. www.pronterface.com/
Is there a reason that a silicon boden tube with stock end wouldnt work for higher temps?
PTFE breaks down at about 250c, when it melts it can release some nasty gases.
what is the proper torque for the nozzles on all metal hot ends
Most hotend manufactures recommend around 1.5Nm.
I upgraded my
Hotend. And ever since I have had really bad under extrusion. Any tips? I’ve re-calibrated everything and still the same. Only thing I have left to tune is my retraction
Retraction could be the problem. For this hotend, try to set it down to 2mm just for a test. You might be pulling the filament to far back into the cold zone.
I have done this three times now. Every time it ended in heat-creep clogs in the heat-break. EVERY TIME. I am converting my current Ender3 Pron over to the Wham Bam Mutant ecosystem so that I can just print PLA with the PTFE tube setup that works well with PLA, and use an all-metal for PETG and nylons. SO SICK of banging my head against that wall.
Any clue what the issue might be? Do you think it's the amount of cooling on the hotend? Is the thermistor reading the correct temp? MicroSwiss have any thoughts?
@@ChrisRiley I haven't had good luck with 3D printing in general since I started messing around with an FLSUN delta in 2016. I am in the middle of my second scratch-built CNC router running LinuxCNC and that thing is gonna work. But somehow I can find a way to make an Ender3 Pro reliably choke on PLA.
Every time that I have tried to setup an all metal hot-end for all filaments it's gone this way, doesn't matter which machine. Heat break material hasn't mattered - stainless, titanium, doesn't matter, it always ends with clogging on every print. I'm just tired of fighting it.
I need PLA for lost PLA casting and for cheap prototyping. I also need an all-metal hot end for printing Polymaker PA6-CF into functional parts, among other nylons. Therefore I'm going to return to the Unix way, and Do ONE Thing, and Do it WELL - so each hot end will be built specifically for the material family being run through it.
I have a Slice Engineering Copperhead showing up which is joining a new MicroSwiss plated copper heater block + ruby nozzle for the nylon hot end, and I have the stock Ender hot end handling PLA just fine with Capricorn tubing. Heck, I can add a Bondtech CHT to the PLA nozzle and it should be better than fine.
The Mutant will allow for easy swapping between them.
@@ChrisRiley And it's just occurring to me that you might think that I am saying that the Copperhead clogged. I haven't received it yet. Miscommunication, my bad.
@@ChrisRiley UPDATE: Got the Slice installed with the Microswiss plated copper heatblock. So far I've only printed PETG with it, and the prints have all been flawless without a single hint of an issue. The old block had oozed and that turned out to be the source of the clogging problem and I couldn't see it through the stock mounting shroud. Currently printing up a Bullseye cooling system for it - hopefully it will have enough adjustment because the Slice hot end is longer than stock.
Bondtech CHT just showed up. I'ave already got a dual-gear extruder setup so hopefully I should be able to keep it fed.
Funny story about a week ago I accidentally bridged my thermistor and heater wire with pliers. Never do this btw. Have had to replace the board and thermistor so far not sure if I also borked the heater cartridge
Oh No! Good luck friend. 🙂
@@ChrisRiley ender up replacing board (skr mini 2.0) and thermistor. So like 65 to get it back up and going. Not terrible but could of been avoided had I not been improperly holding the heater block during nozzle changes
Where did you get your torque wrench?
I bet he 3D printed it.
I got it from the folk at Olsen Ruby, they are SLS printed.
Hey Chris, Thank you for your amazing & easy to follow videos. I am swapping my Ender 5 Plus to an all metal this weekend!
Where did you get the torque wrench?
Have a great day, Charlie
Hey Charlie, I got it from the guys at Olsen Ruby. olssonruby.com/nozzletool/
Could anyone reply with how to do the U at the end to auto save the tune please. would be greatly appreciated
It seems to only work when the U is first. Do it like this M303 U1 S210 C3 E0 Make sure you run an M500 after just to be sure it saves.
Hi Bro? Where did you get your circular ratchet?
It the Olsson ruby nozzle tool. olssonruby.com/nozzletool/
I really wish micro swiss would add the 2 screws so the heater and throat stay in place when removing nozzles
The problem with those screws going from the heater block to the heatsink is heat creep. Hence, they've probably found, when designing their hotend, that with those screws on an all metal hotend you can get heat creep going into the cold end, which leads to jams. Yeah, it's a pita not having those screws to secure the heater block and keep the heat break from loosening, but it works better more often than not without them.
@@serinfel you'd think so but they don't. Chep has an entire video dedicated to proving it doesn't effect heat creep at all. I have dragon and mosquito hot ends on all machines and they have 4 screws in each and are made to be the hottest hot end on the market and will never have heat creep. They are the best hot ends you can get. They better be at almost 100 bucks a piece. It definitely seems like they'd cause heat creep but surprisingly enough do not. Ptef lined hot ends and high heat are what you want stay away from.
It is nice when it's attached, much easier to deal with the nozzle.
Tiny machines 3d installed a microswiss on my Ender 3 before shipping. In 2 years I've had only 1 clog. Couldn't explain it, but cleared w/o taking things apart.
Retraction should be no more than 4mm w/ an all metal though. I needed 4. With linear advance I only needed 1.3. With direct drive and pressure advance I'm down to 0.4.
That's great info! Thanks!
Are there ANY insights as to why a _USA_ based company with ( apparently? ) no ties to _Switzerland_ call itself Micro _Swiss_ going even so far as to using a proportionally off Swiss flag in their Company logo? 😑
I don't know the story on that, I will have to ask when I see them next.
Chris not sure if you’ll see this or not. I mentioned in a previous video that I was trying out bearings from a place called Squishworx. I finally was able to try them. I purchased a full set for an Mk3 build and half of them were junk.
That stinks! I'm sorry to hear that.
if you really want to improve the ender extruder all you need to do is to exchange the heat break with the one from Slice engineering. ( copperhead C-E variant)
I might have to try that.
Love your videos, always informative and your presentation is enjoyable to watch and listen to
I appreciate that!
Thanks for the video man. Lots of extra tips that are very helpful.
Happy to help! Thanks for watching!
This works better... no this works better... NO!...
Chris: it’s time to science the shit outta this!
I fucking love science videos. Sub’d for the dedication.
Edit: I’m already sub’d, duh!
You think it's time to take the science to 11?! LOL
Mine came w/ an injection molded clip for the PTFE. Guess they went cheaper?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
great content and yes some PLA do stick to the Microswiss , it drove me Nuts on my first swap out 2 years ago...
PLA only ? use a bowden system with a lightweight hot end to gain speed ...
Glad I am not the only one this happened to. ;)
@@ChrisRiley it's _almost_ that, except it's not PLA sticking to the hotend, but PLA expanding inside the heatbreak's cold end/zone, and that's why all metal hotends manufacturers recommend to limit your retraction length (as the filament has a more define cold/hot transition zone, it's not a problem to get string-free prints with lower values) and in some cases you need thermal paste between the heatbreak and radiator (E3D didn't really want to acknowledge it at first, but that's also why V6 are now shipped with a bag of thermal grease that's """""optional""""" *wink wink* ;) the thermal paste just help to make sure your cold zone doesn't "heat creep" on your PLA, i'd say not all threads are equals and that's why "round mounts" like the MicroSwiss doesn't need thermal paste)
Great and honest opinion on why you should/should not upgrade to allmetal, however.... why the ancient Micro Swiss hotend?
we've come a long way since then, bi-metal heatbreaks!
either a high quality one from Trianglelab or similar which is compatible with stock hotend, or why not get a Phaetus Dragonfly BMS (replaces stoch hotend directly) with heatblock to handle temps as high as 450c or something. gets you haflway to high temp filaments! (heater cartridge+thermistor and fw left).
How about a comparison maybe? ;)
microswiss VS dragonfly vs stock with bi-metal heatbreak/throat
Humm.... 🤔
Do you have any thoughts about installation of a bi-metal heat break? Seems to be an inexpensive way to get an all metal hot end. I see Slice Engineering sells them to fit an Ender 3. They are also available from AliExpress.
Tom has video on the slice bi metal and Stefan has one on the aliexpress ones. They both seem good but the slice is better quality.
🙂
Great information Chris. I do have a question. I print mostly PETG. I would say 99% of the time. Would this make my print more consistent in the case of heating. Right now I have to slow it down to about 50 mm/s. And even then I experience jamming ever so often. Usually after I clear the jam I am good to go again.
🙂👍
I do have an update. Looks like my cooling fan for the heat sync on the hot end was failing. It would stop working not the print. I saw it happen. I happen to have a new stock fan and everything works now. 👍🏼
Would a all metal hot end help with higher temp filaments? Ie. PTEG?
PETG is kind of all over the map, I prefer to run it hot, 250ish, so at that temp it could help you.
@@ChrisRiley yes I found 255-260 works best with 5-6 retract. Label on filament spool says 230-260 but anything lower than 250 is bad results
Hey Chris, any chance you could do a deep dive on part cooling and bridging/overhangs in the future? Would love your sage advice on how to improve in this area!
Great suggestion!
Hey Chris. Recently got the direct drive hot end from microswiss. It’s been sort of hot and miss. But what I’m really struggling with is the actual firmware update.. I can’t seem to find a video of how or what to recalibrate in terms of the firmware. I’m just trying to get a basic understanding of the coding and also the correct way to actually get it to flash to my Ender 5. Please tell me you have a video for this. I don’t really trust anyone else other than you my friend🤞🏻
Hey, if you are just wanting to get into flashing Marlin, I would check these out.
VScode setup : th-cam.com/video/JWUcnkjeNU8/w-d-xo.html
Basic marlin from example config: th-cam.com/video/1PPBHn-jU0k/w-d-xo.html
If it's just for tuning in your extruder, you should have to change the firmware, most of that can be done with a couple of commands saved in eeprom.
Could I put PLA in allmetal hot end?
You can, but it can be challenging. PLA likes to stick to the metal. Make sure you have enough hotend cooling.
@@ChrisRiley I was think to buy a ender 3 S1 allmetal hotend kit to put in my ender S1.
Is that tool to remove the nozzle a printed part? Can you share please? :)
I got it from the Olsen ruby folks. It's SLS printed. olssonruby.com/nozzletool/
@@ChrisRiley ah thanks
PTFE tube emits harmful gas?
When heated too high, yes. It's the same as printing ABS... it releases carcinogens.
Yes they can, it's pretty wicked stuff.
I have the micro swiss hot end and so far it's been great but I really wish I knew about slice engineering creality style heat breaks before purchasing. Would have gone that route and slowly upgraded to the complete copper head hotend
Good luck with your projects. 🙂
I use the MicroSwiss for ABS and Nylon 👍
Nice!
@@ChrisRiley thanks for all your helpful vids, you're such an amazing part of this community 🙌
Please do one with an ender 3 with a v6 hotend in bowden. I could not get good pla prints, and e3d themselves couldn't figure it out. They told me after a two week troubleshooting period, to just keep using it in direct drive. There's hundreds of people online with the same jamming and failure issue with no resolution. Maybe if a big name person like yourself points it out, they'll fix it, or quit advertising it to be used in bowden.
Interesting, I wasn't aware there was an issues, I have some in a bowden config, maybe I need to do more testing.
@@ChrisRiley oh please do! I can email you the back and forth I had with E3D. I've tried the v6 on an ender 3 with a dual geared extruder, an ezr extruder, and on a Tronxy X5SA pro both ways as well. Always jams or clogs. Direct drive was the only way to get it to work. Comparitively, the microswiss had no issues. Google "e3d v6 bowden jams" and see the sea of people with issues. I even used a 5015 blower on the heatsink to ensure cooling was not an issue.
Hi chris, I have a question for you, I need help for choosing a new 3d printer with warm bed with a print size of at least 350x350 and direct drive. Now I have a clone prusa bear created by me with skr 1.3. Can you help me?
350x350 is a hard size, most machines stop at 300. Take a look at the ANYCUBIC Chiron. I don't have one, but they are big and affordable.
Great vid! One question tho.. In order to print nylon (all metal hotend is to print with high temps) the temperature must be higher than stock. How do you up that temp?
You have to flash the firmware.
Probably should have done a PID tune after changing out just the nozzle.
Thanks
I'd like you to revisit this situation in 2022 for someone that may not remember all they learned a long time ago about all-metal hot ends.
I'll see what I can do 🙂
How do you calibrate extrusion width and flow rate? Great video 🙏
Slice a square box with 0 infill and 1 line width perimeter (i.e. 0.4 wall thickness). With bottom thickness set to 0.4 and top thickness set to zero so you will print a hollow box. Then print and measure the actual wall thickness. Flow rate controls the extruder length so make sure your E steps are set correctly.
👍🙂
best upgrade!!! Thanks for the video
Glad you like it!
So I made this mod to my Ender 3 (I made my own parts) so I could eventually print ABS, PETG, Nylon, and Polycarbonate (the holy grail). Now I'm having serious issues printing ABS. Seems like retract issues, but just can't nail it down. Parts look horrible. The surface finish looks like sharks' skin and I get a lot of plastic deposition back onto the nozzle. Not sure what to do. HELP?
I suffered with ABS too - built an enclosure, used the bed around 95° and let that heat it up, and print slooooowly 25-30 mm/s with the hotend at 250-260 so the layers have time to fuse together. I eventually got good results and usable parts.
I left the retract settings the same, at about 6.2 mm, and I always used lift, wipe and avoid traversing perimeters.
A bigger nozzle diameter can also help with remelting the layers together.
Lots to play with, and it can take weeks to get right!
For this hot end I do 255c the bed at 100c and I set retraction about 2.5mm.
Why do they use titanium heat break when cheaper nickel has half the thermal conductivity of titanium? Is it because of the hardness? Couldn't they just use 304 stainless steel as most materials are soft enough, even carbon fibres, to not need the hardness of titanium while 304 has similar or less thermal conductivity and good enough hardness? It seems that Micro Swiss are trying to justify bumping up the price for no good reason. Useful video BTW Thanks.
Thanks! Titanium seems to be common. Not sure why, maybe it expands less than others.
Fantastic!!! thanks !!!
Thank you too!
I believe the longer hot end is also all metal for $15 and the red lizzard for $26 it can go all the way to 300c also fits on the factory mount.:0)
Cool, thanks!
Not related to this but have you thought about doing a video on closed look steppers? if you do message me as I have some info about the 2.0 units :)
I have and never got around to it. I should look to do it again.
Great video as always :) i for example only upgraded my heatbreak and kept the rest the same, well and a 50w heater cartridge for all printers since i upgraded the CR10 and CR10S to 24v and 220v beds, works like a charm, will test those bimetal heatbreaks at some point
Nice work! Thanks for sharing
@@ChrisRiley i am sure the microswiss is awesome and quality, with all the other upgrades for 6 printers, i don't see the cost for a microswiss justified, maybe the Nova3d or dragonfly and whatever other high flow options, but keep em coming, absolute joy and wealth of information
I have a all metal hot end it came with a tube should I use it?plus what is the best one for pla ? Thanks for any input.
I would recommend the normal PTFE hotend because all metal usually clog when using low temp plastic like pla.
@@Kimkim-gl6qc thanks😁👍
👍
Just wondering what your thoughts are Chris, Why would one pick the Micro, over the time tested and proven E3d V6, which is 10usd cheaper? in case others are wondering which to select, But let it be known, I'm bias as threw and through a 100% E3D fanboy lol
Ease of instalation. It's a direct swap.
V6 uses a differrnt mounting method. Both hot ends are great though.
Yeah, that easier direct swap is really the best reason to go with Micro swiss, I have never really done a side by with it vs a V6, but it might be interesting.
I just found locally cr10 heatsink that can be installed on e3d block .. its threaded so e3d throat can be installed. Sure direct and easy upgrade for me, btw it still ontheway :)
1:15 Straight from Basement's Marketing Department: "This should be somewhat interesting..."
🙂👍
@@ChrisRiley .. which is not only an amusing undersell, but it's a very useful video! As usual.
Is it like a Swiss made clone of a Chinese made clone? Whats the deal with the high price? I see the same junk for $2 on AliExpress.
This one is the original, they are hand machined in the US.
Very informative! Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Just in time!!! I want to print ABS to build a Voron V0!!!
Sweet! Thanks
Thanks dude!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks that’s a great explanation
Thanks!
why wouldnt you calibrate the printer for the microswiss hotend? thats like watching a whole video on converting a car to propane to see how it performs, and testing it with gasoline... I mean, at least retraction.....
Thanks for watching
@@ChrisRiley I absolutely love your videos, they have been more help to me than anything else. It just really seemed like there should have been a comparison with it tuned for the all metal hotend. It's not really a comparison if it wasn't tuned for it.
@@B3DPrinting Hey Bob, I get it. This was more of a video to tell folks to make sure they really need an all metal hotend before they try the upgrade.
Very informative. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Nice info, thanks.
No problem! Thanks for watching
Yes a new video :-)
🙂
For the Love of god and holy why is every single Video at TH-cam showing it wrong...If you Put it together DIY you need to apply Boron Nitride Paste at Sensor and heater. And If you use a coperheatblock and a Steel nozzle it needs Paste there too. The whole Tuning ist useless and will have None or less effect to the original. But thx to videos Like this i got a lot of Work in the printer repair Shop from Guys who follows this.
I'm glad you got it going. Thanks for the comment
good morning to KC from OR
Hey there!
thx for the video
You're welcome, thanks for watching. 🙂
Interesting, oh yes!
Thanks!
I'm surprised you didn't buy it from Micro Center. They carry a rather limited selection of Creality items.
Really? Interesting, I haven't been there in a while.
I kinda get the feeling we hit a plateau with 3D printing. I mean, yeah, these things are nice and all but adding a mosquito extruder with dual bondtech gears, a copperhead heatthroat and an Olsson Ruby nozzle for 8 trillion Dollars for 3% nicer prints just isnt worth it.
Well, when you put it that way... 😉
I disagree, after getting the microswiss hot end my print quality went up compared to my other (same model) printer
Thanks for your insight
G.A.S. can cause severe damage to your balance. I hope this video will prevent many useless upgrades. :) If it is working, don't touch it. Thx Chris!
👍🙂
The pheatus dragon fly is way better
I have one of those now, I need to give it a spin.
This is by far the only useful video about the microswiss, unfortunately I already bought it last week and installed it a day before this video. If you don't have to print carbon fibre filament don't get an all metal hotend it turns PLA into glue. 0.4 nozzles tend to clog often.
No. Change your retraction to under 4mm. Or better yet tune it with a retraction tower, but keep it under 4mm. Print a temp tower as well to find your temps. It should print PLA with no issues at all.
Thanks!
Looks like a downgrade to me on print lol
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm really not enjoying this crap. It's too finicky. Who wants to buy my end 3 pro and cr-10v3?
I feel you. It can be a real headache on the best days.