Micros Swiss All Metal Hotend
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ย. 2019
- This video address concerns about the quality and reliability of the Micro Swiss All Metal Hotend. Specifically, it tests the ability of this high-temperature hot end to print regular PLA at regular temperatures. When you read the comments about the MicroSwiss Hotend some users comment that it tends to jam when using low-temperature filament such as PLA and that stringing is an issue with these filaments. I have evaluated both of these potential issues and report on my results.
While I tested the Micro Swiss Hotend on my Creality Ender 5 I believe my results will hold across the Creality line of printers. The test prints were sliced with Cura and printed in Hatchbox PLA and Matterhacker Build PLA.
The Ender 5 Upgrades on the printer used for these tests include a SeeMeCNC EZR Struder Extruder Kit and a Capricorn Bowden tube.
After watching the video please feel free to comment. All comments about this topic are welcome. Let's continue to learn together.
Irv
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I really enjoy your content and your positive attitude. we are all lucky to have people like you on the platform.
I am pretty experienced with 3d printers, i started in 2013 and i am currently developing my own printer from scratch. The observations you made because of the heat creeping are correct, thumbs up! hint: when assembling any hot end, tighten the nozzle at max finger force against the heatbreak, heat it to 250c +- and then tight it with a wrench.
Thanks for the comment and the support for my observation.
Another great video Doc! I had a problem with jamming on my Micro Swiss hot end when a print would fail during the middle of the night and I had to kill the power to the printer with my wifi switch. In those conditions with no cool down the filament would jam way beyond just heating up the heat block at a high temperature and pulling it out. I would have to take it a part to get everything sorted out. My printer is in my store and I monitor it at night with a simple Wyze cam. Other than those conditions I never had issues. But for that reason I went away from the Micro Swiss for awhile.
A couple of months ago I had a problem with my stock hot end and switched back to the Micro Swiss as that was my only option to print and not wait on parts. One of the things you did not mention in your video is how much easier it is to change nozzles on the Micro Swiss. Because the nozzle tightens up against the titanium heat tube, you do not have to worry about the bowden tube being pushed tight against the nozzle. It really is an easier procedure to change nozzles in the Micro. I have altered my end of print G code to retract the filament 50 mm so there is never a problem with jammed filament after cool down. Even if it is several hours. Of course I have been doing this with the stock hot end as well. I just remember to run the filament back down to the hot end before I start a print. Most of the time I am changing filament as well so it is not a problem. Plus I have changed my waste print at the start of every print to run the full length of the bed with 4 passes. I have found that by doing this and usually printing a skirt, the filament is flowing plenty well when the actual print starts.
Again, great video! Keep them coming.
Thanks for sharing.
Great video (as are all of your videos). I ordered the Micro-Swiss for my CR-10S Pro, and I think I'll upgrade all my printers to this. When I read reviews (on this and other products), I find that the negative reviews are folks who either don't understand, they don't follow instructions, or they don't take the time to LEARN why something is the way it is. Being new to 3D printing in the last 8 weeks, the biggest lesson I've learned is that 3D printing takes PATIENCE, some basic understanding of the process and some common sense. Also, pay attention to who you are taking advice from. Do they really know what they are talking about, or are they simply after likes and views. I sensed from the first time I watched one of your videos, DrVax, that you genuinely care about helping people and your advice is very sound! Thank you so much.
Thanks Tim. I do my best. I agree that 3d printing is a combination of art and science. It requires both skills and patience since when tuning any process trial and error is necessary. I do a bit of cooking and find 3d printing is like cooking, sometimes with a recipe and somethings from scratch without.
I also agree that sometimes people that expect 3d printing to be plug and play become frustrated.
Just found this channel, while looking up the micro Swiss hot end I just brought. Great video !
This video was an eyeopener to me, thank you so much! Its the first video i see from you, and i gotta say iam impressed by the quality of the content, and also you, have such a calm presence, listening to your informations was like watching an asmr video, just incredible
I sure enjoy your instructive videos, DrVax. You present the information very clearly and it sure helps people sort out problems. I've recommended your channel to several friends new to 3D printing.
That’s for the recommendations. I appreciate it. Glad the channel is working for you.
thank you very much Dr.Vax.. these videos are much needed in the community. much appreciate the hard work that goes into these videos.
This video was super helpful when I was making the desicision to purchase the mirco swiss and now again when I am starting to print pla with it. Thank you!
This is good information Dr.
I am planning on doing this upgrade soon, will let you know how it works for me!
I have done nearly every upgrade I can do my Ender; Dual Z, Direct Drive, Glass bed, pei sheet, hero me cooling with 5015 blower fans, 32 bit controller board, linear rails... this is probably one of the last major upgrades ill do to this Ender
been pondering spending $80 to upgrade to a Swiss Metal Hot End kit for my CR6SE - have been having some pla blockage issues - but based on what I see here would likely be not much different. I did get my hot end and cooling block cleaned out and running better. An upgrade to direct drive with metal hot end, and community firmware, and now I see bigger cooling fan is also an option, ... these things all combined might be worthwhile - but for now, I continue to run stock and keep learning. Thanks for your TH-cams - you have been one of my go to teachers.
I just installed the Micro Swiss all metal hot end on my new CR-10 S5, mainly to print in PETG. The testing starts tomorrow. I will probably need to move to their direct drive unit, but nit until I have to print flexible material. Great informative video.
Just found you and wow, such great content by someone who readily admits things that they don’t know! New subscriber!
solid video amigo. Really like your clarity, both in concept and in communication.
Exact explanation I was looking for. I was torn between E3d v6 and Microswiss for Ender 5 pro. This video was very useful 👍👍👍
I enjoy watching your videos because you talked specifically about my printer which is the Ender 5. I've been 3D printing for about two months now. When I first got my printer at worked great. Is it began having issues I started adding upgrades. I got the Ender 5 Pro which has the silent main board and the metal extrusion with Capricorn tubing. Since then I have added a glass bed, a micro Swiss all metal hotend, and a direct drive conversion conversion kit that moves the extruder on top of the hot end. I have also upgraded to the th3d Marlin version of firmware. And I have created a spool holder that is directly above my printer and eliminated the PTFE tubing all together except for where it goes into the hot end from the direct drive extrusion. I believe I am still having under extrusion errors. I noticed that the teeth on the extruder gear is slipping and it's kind of worn out. I have stainless steel ones on order. I also watched your video on extruder calibration and I'm going to do that as well.. I can update you on if it fixes it or not. I also am going to do the PID calibration from watching one of your videos.
So I have some questions. The time now running direct drive and in all metal hotend. What should be my slicer settings? What retraction do you think I should start with? The flow rate? Toasting and other options. I have noticed that when I am printing with pteg especially that if a model has many retractions over and over I noticed that the government takes a while to start extruding again once it goes back to a longer extrusion length of time on the model. I have both simplify3d and cura. another question is what other upgrades should I do in the future? I have it inside of a cabinet and I'm going to install on the inside a reflective insulated material and put a door on it to close it in. What would be a good way to heat up the enclosure? I have some relays that I got to add to octoprint and I could program them to turn on and off the heated enclosure element. And also monitor a thermostat to regulate it if needed. Thanks for your input.
You're very pleasant to listen to. Many instructional videos on TH-cam get frustrating. And for many, I wish they would just get to the point. With you, we get the best of both worlds. You're great at staying focused on topic, AND even if you were to stray some, it wouldn't be the slightest problem, because it's like sitting with a great friend and just enjoying the conversation. Glad you're here, and thank you for all your effort that you put into helping others.
My pleasure.
Another very informative video. I agree that the best solution is to change the end G code to retract a greater amount. I have also used the preheat to ABS setting on my Ender if I have problems.
These explanations really help people who are having problems. Thanks
Your welcome. Thanks for commenting.
You are a gem in the 3D printing community. THANKS HOMIE
I have one on both an Ender 3 and a CR-10s Pro. Love them.
Thanks for commenting.
Great video Dr. Val!
Appreciate this video! Thanks bud! Hope you are feeling better these days!
Thanks for including the 2d schematic of the print process.
Thank you. Great explanation!!
Well, your suggestion about clearing the clog worked. I was quite surprised. I heated the hotend up by 15 degrees hotter than I normally print PLA, pushed it down and then pulled it back out. I could not get the filament to come out before. Then I removed the nozzle and used the noclogger tool I bought off of Amazon to clear the rest of the clog. It took considerable amount of force to so, but at least it is mostly clear now. Ever since I added the Microswiss all metal hotend and direct drive I get a clog when going from PETG to PLA. I think I am going to just stick with PETG from now on.
Excellent video, very clear and understandable, very detailed and well paced. And most importantly, really good information! I wish you'd replace some of my professors
Good points.
Thanks for sharing :-)
I added the Micro Swiss Hot end to my 10S Pro i had lots of trouble printing NylonX from Matter Hackers, so i switched to PETG-CF and had better results. Finally i ran out of PETG-CF and had to go back to NylonX. At one time I had a massive leak and had filament running out and melting all over the hot end. I did a tear down and clean and reassembly, it worked one time. Then the next time jam! Tear down got the plug out but once back together another Jam, this time i had to figure out the issue and get it right. I super cleaned everything. I found filament residue in the corners of the both threaded ends that prevented full insert into the heater block and likely made the gap between the top parts. I talked to Micro Swiss the threaded ends are 5 mm and 5.5 mm with .001=.002 gap at the nozzle base when fully torqued. After cleaning the joints I also chamfered the edges of the each threaded end of the Hot Block slightly. to allow for any filament i could not get out. the mating surfaces were bit charred with filament residue. So i polished the ends with 1,000 grit sand paper. I ended up with a tight coupling and .001 clearance in the nozzle. I did a test fir using black maker on the mating surfaces and when i removed then the marker was rubbed off equally around the surfaces. When i reassembled the parts i also used a drill bit down the filament channel thru the hot block and into the nozzle as a guide to ensure square and aligned parts during reassembly. After 2 days of printing NylonX for my Christmas Train Parts i have not had a jam, a leak or any filament handing issue. However, i had a lot of new stringing. I continue to address that issue and some layer separation that is likely speed and layer height issue. So far so good. I am saving to go to a direct feed Micro Swiss Kit soon. Good report and excellent suggestions.
Thanks for this video. A lot of great information.
Heat SINK
Heat Sync is a watch.
Thanks for the video!
Subscribed! We’re you able to reduce stringing with the Ender 5?
just got an original micro swiss so this one was usefull, thanks
Hi from cairns QUEENSLAND, AUSTRALIA. Nothing but clearly explained technical reviews..
I like it . Just assembling a tronxy X5SA-400. Yet to fire up my anycubic Zero resin printer. Lots of fun ahead.
Upgrading seems to be the name of the game.
daVid
I have a micro swiss hotend on a Wanhao i3 v2.0, It works brilliantly. I have one on an Ender 3 with a swiss all metal, and it was jamming in the heat break constantly, even higher temps did not unjam the PLA. Switched to an E3D all metal clone, PLA prints OK but the PLA sticks in the heatbreak and stops other filaments from printing correctly, heating did not fix it. I have also made sure the transition zones are gap free. I have temporarily switched to a heatbreak with PTFE until I can have another go at fixing it. I have also tried a filament oiler, small amount of oil did not seem to make much difference. Too much oil and the PLA became extremely brittle. For anyone with troubles make one change at time so you can isolate the problem, yes this takes time but it is worth it. Anyway DrVax great videos.
I missed a bit, during large retractions a small piece of partly melted PLA can break off at the top of the heatbreak as it snags on the way through and never be able to be melted out. You will need to disassemble the hot end to get it out. It is surprising how many different ways the hot-end can give trouble.
Thanks for the comment. So far I have had no issues.
I've had a 3d printer (cr-10s w/ stock) for 3 years and have had zero jamming so far. Whatever they did it's great.
Yes the Creality hotend is quite reliable as long as you get the bowden tube pushed all the way in. This is the area where people run into problems.
Thanks for the excellent video!!
I've an E3P and I'd purchased a Micro Swiss DD syatem w/ hot end, etc.
It's sat in the box for 2 months now. :-(
One reason is because my E3P is printing very well stock, out of the box.
Second is, I am very-very new to the hobby and and although I've done a LOT of reading, some things are still unclear and sometimes far too overwhelming.
For instance, I've read MANY reviews regarding the nozzle not being centered in the middle of the bed after install, but never a clear and concise way of fixing it.
Third, I dont know whom to contact if I run into problems after the install, such as the instance above, or how to set the bed height to where the nozzle doesn't "crash" into the bed, breakimg off the nozzle... Ugh.
I'm still just so overwhelmed, but I'd purchased the Micro Swiss to be able to print different materials, but until I can figure out how to solve my issues, I feel very nervous because I don't want to foul up my printer if I don't know how to resolve...
Again, this is such a great video! And Im hoping I can come across someine like you that has the patience and understanding to help resolve these issues when they arise for me.
All the very best! ✌🏼
Upgraded to the hotend and direct drive combo on an Ender 3 Pro. As someone who spent a few days going through all kinds of problems, if people have issues with the hotend it is due to user error and not understanding how to calibration their printer to work with the new hotend. Once you spend a few hours tweaking things, there is no difference in the hotend in quality. The only gains you make are that you can starting printing with materials that start where the stock Creality hotend maxes out.
I just built my Ender 5 Plus with a Micro Swiss hot end. Some great tips here.
I just received my micro Swiss direct drive and hotend system, but after reading many many reviews I'm now slightly hesitant too install, as I'm very new to the Hobby and I've heard many stories about having problems getting the nozzle centered in the middle of the bed and also about the stainless steel nozzle breaking off in the hot end and also having clogging issues...
Is there anywhere where I can find some solutions to these problems? I purchased this to be able to print different filaments such as TPU and wood PLA, etc. The other reason I'm hesitant to install, besides the issues I mentioned above, is that my stock E3P has printed exceptionally well out of the box and I don't want to foul it up... I just need the option of printing other filaments.
Thanks folks and I'm appreciative of any help towards addressing my questions above.
Best! ✌🏼
Thank you for explaining the Micro Swiss. Is there a required CFM from the fan blowing onto the Micro Swiss heat sink? Also will the heat from the heated bed be drawn into the heat sink too?
I have an Ender 3 Pro, that has been printing very high quality prints for 1 1/2 years, a few upgrades, and well tuned. extruder, springs, capricorn tube etc., 32 bit board, on the orgiginal hot end.
I upgraded to the Micro Swiss hot end, and am having the jammed filament when starting a new print.
I see the bulge in the filament ( PLA ) inside the heat break, everything else looks really good.
Of course the filament can't be pulled back out, except by removing the hot end, and clipping off the short piece.
I can't force ( pushing by hand ) filament through the nozzle, all the time, even when heated to 240.
Running 3mm of retraction, linear adv, etc, testing range of temps, and other settings , using both Cura and Slicr.
Getting some very nice prints, just the plug to work out. Going to try End G Code fix.
Thank you for a great video and some excellent comments down below !! Got some good people in your channel !
Hi many thanks for all your help I have a major problem I've recently upgraded to a microswiss direct drive on my ender 5. Since then every time I print in pla I've been getting a lot of filament leaking from between the hotend and the heat brake also the hotend and heat brake keeps on working loose enabling the unit to twist thank you Colin
Loved the video. Very informative! Where did you get the STL file for that test print?
Thanks, was helpful!
I experienced the jamming mid print. Reducing extrusion corrects this but now it's not enough retraction to keep from splooging zits everywhere. The corrective action for that is lowering the temp which results in inferior adhesion.
It's always something.
Generally, i've drawn the conclusion from people complaining of all metal hotends (E3D V6, Micro Swiss ...) that they have issues because of the all-metal heatbreak. If using a metal heatbreak lined with PTFE tubing all those issues go away. For E3D V6 you have this option (from Chinese retailers) but for Microswiss i have not found it yet. This info helped me and solved most of my issues, maybe it will help some of your viewers as well. All of this provided there is a snug fit between all necessary components.
I think you probably are correct. However, I have had no issues with my Microswiss manufactured all metal hot end. I do not think people should assume Microswiss clones will perform the same way as original Microswiss hot ends.
@@MakeWithTech Oh I'm sure of that. There has to be a reason for the big price gap between the clone and original.
I use lower temp and higher speed in all metal hot-end, then Tube-end(if printed same filament), this works for me then same retractions settings exept 2 mm/s insted of 6,5mm/s.
I mostly use A-M-H. for PETG--- and Tube-End for PLA. --------Thank you for this Video let's keep learning.
Thanks so much for sharing. I have viewers that have shared the comments are as valuable as the original videos. If my videos help start discussions they are adding value to the ecosystem.
What g-code retraction amount would you recommend after each print. Thank you for the helpful video.
Interesting. I just replaced my microswiss with another microswiss. I had been having horrible globbing issues with and after printing PETG. The globbing continued with PLA but not as bad. I decided to replace the nozzle and see if that helped, but when I was trying to screw in the new nozzle it didn't feel right so I pulled of the fan housing and found that the heat sock was pretty well cooked and the entire heat block was coated with a few millimeters of burnt and crystalized PLA and PETG, I literally had to chisel it off. So I decided to install the brand new microswiss hot end. To do it I had to use a Dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut the old heat block away from the heat capsule and cut a flat blade screwdriver slot in the screw holding the thermister in place. Once I got it all back together I am again getting good prints without the globbing problems. As near as I can tell the globs were being caused by melted plastic building up on the nozzle and when they got big enough they would adhere to the print and solidify. This would form a roadblock to the printhead as it came by the next time. Sometimes it would get knocked off-along with a chunk of the print or it would jam the printhead and cause it to start printing off to one side or the other. All in all, it was a real mess. The printer is an Ender 3 that I bought about 2 years ago. It has several upgrades, but still using a Boden tube, but has an upgraded mother board.
Dunno if you ever figured it out. But here is a check list.
First globbing is almost always due to bed leveling or over extrusion of both. I would start by really dialing in the first layer extrusion rate, remember it is relative to the distance from the bed.
Second is steps per mm, in my ender 5 which has the same extruder I believe.. I tested and realized the creality defaults are off.. it was 93 steps not 80 steps in my case.
The next thing, I would consider doing a pid tune, if you see improvement from this consider getting a copper heat block, due to the higher mass they will give more accurate temperature control with a proper pid tune.
Wished you focused the pics closer. Thanks for the review
I also try to add close up images. I will keep your comment in mind.
Great Video! Thanks
Your welcome.
DrVax can you show how to upgrade to a all metal hotend for your Monoprice MP10
My old Da Vinci printer was an all metal hotend and would Jam when switching from ABS to PLA. Any small residue of ABS in the hotend will stick to PLA. You can fix this with cleaning filament. Also, I would reduce the retraction when using an all metal hotend, that seems to help.
Thanks for sharing.
Love your videos
Great information.
Great video, I already figured out jamming fix when changing filaments but my prints are taking twice as long. I’m using simplfied3d software. Any suggestions on settings or gcode changes? I’m using CR 10 S Pro printer
Enjoyed the video as always but you fell short when comparing the Ender models with more expensive printers regarding the stringing issue. Not everyone can afford multiple printers. Your outcome was that 'all metal hotend' is a viable option but we did not 'learn together' how to overcome the stringing with the Enders using an 'all metal hotend'. If it can't be done then it is not a viable option for Ender printers. Thank you for your valuable input and the way you put accross your knowledge in a simple and easy to understand way.
I appreciate your observation. The Ender printers do an excellent job with day to day prints and most stringing tests. It is only the tall tower string test which is a problem and it is unlikely a production print will have these characteristics.
@Peter Horton One more observation. I am doing another set of prints for a video comparing my Prusa to the Monoprice Ultimate 2. In reprinting the Prusa prints I am getting a bit of stringing which I do not remember in the past. In the past I used Hatchbox PLA, these prints are with MatterHacker Build PLA. It may be that Build PLA strings more and if so some of the stringing with the Micro Swiss might be a result of using a different filament.
The fun and the challenge of 3d printing in a consumer setting, is that there are a million variables. In a production setting you would pick one filament, tune for it, and only print with it.
@@MakeWithTech "A challenge" you can say that agagin. I am very impressed with the concept of lithophanes. I also had good outcomes with using Esun PLA+, so I bought some white Esun PLA+. My original prints where OK but had random lines through them. I was using Cura 3 as the slicer. Recently I completed a 3D printed revolving lithophane lamp which has 4 curved lithophane panels. Now using Cura 4.2.1 and trying to get get best possible prints, I combed the internet trying to find the best settings and ended up a dismal failure. Excessive stringing and artifacts. Finally after more research and analysing the Cura settings more closely I eventually got succuessful. The out come was amazing. it took about and hour longer to print each panel. But back to the Esun Pla+ white. I have done regular models and I believe the quality is not as good as other colours or brands. Still need to do more experimenting. I did notice that using a lower temp (was 215 now 207) improved the print. I am an expat pensioner living in Thailand and always been a tinkerer eg build, upgrade and troubleshoot my computer as well as helping other people. My 3D printer as it is an enjoyable and valuable source of stimulation. Your approach to 3D printing is excellent and I always look forward to "Learning things together" with you. Thank you for your responce and commitment. Kindest regards Peter H
Great video
good video but i was wondering how to remove the possibility of filament clogging the inside of the tube. Is the benefit of an all metal hotend that there is no need for an intermediate material, like PTFE, inside the cooling chamber guiding the filament? The below comment by Simon suggests there is still clogging with the hotend.
Helps alot to add 5C to the hotend, reduce retraction to like 1.5 and retraction speed to 25mm/s
I will give it a try. Thanks for commenting.
I thought he was using 25mm/s speed on his retraction already? Or maybe I am getting this confused with another video I watch the yesterday :P. If he is not that would explain the differences. Personally I have always retract further if its not direct, I am going try the 1.5 out of curiosity because I think I have only tried that distance in the past when it was at higher speeds. Temperature depending on where hes yet I agree could help or make it worse. I always feel you play up and down on that. Anyways Just more wondering if I am misunderstood now on the retraction speed DrVax was using and myself curios to try your short retraction on a Bowden =).
super great video 👌
hey @DrVax, do you recommend changing to an all-metal-hot-end if i'm going to be printing only PLA and PETG?
For what I've read printing anything hotter has a different kind of problem (besides the hot-end itself): Printing polycarbonate or even ABS requires (for what i've read, correct me please!!!) an enclosure, so for an ender 3... (or 5, but i have a 3 :D ) I'd still not be able to print correctly. Do you see any other reason to do that?
Similar question about changing to direct drive... I know it's a little bit different, having to choose between stringing or ringing... what do you think?
Thank you!
Started printing PETG on a stock Cr10S Pro v2. No issue aside from some stringing.
Great video explaining hot ends... Question regardless if you use a all metal hotend or a stock one in ender machine should you always pre heat to a higher temp then push it filament first then remove if you want to change spool? also lets say you dont want to change spool... can you just remove print from day before ..then select print using same or similar g code and print without messing with filament at all? on my ender 5 this is how i have been doing it.... only thing is i heat up filament and only pull filament out i never pushed in first....never had any issue...but on my cr-10 clone i will be switching to an all metal hot end so i will use your method you explained... thanks...
You only need to touch the filament if you are going to change it. I always do the push then pull since it only takes a few seconds and clearing a jammed nozzle is no fun.
@@MakeWithTech thax... tried a all metal hot end i had today... i tried everything... clogged almost instantly... i took it appart 3 times... even smoothed out small hole and polished... by hand feed perfectly... than 3 mins into prints extractor starts clicking... stop print ,, then i raise z and am unable to manually push filament through... when i figure this out i'll update... thanks
ps i just ordered a new stock hotend should get it in a week...
could you please do a review of the artillery sidewinder x1?
Have one to give me. 😀
Hi, Irv!
I fitted a Micro Swiss to an Ender 3 about 5 months ago and all was well for about three months but then I started getting bad prints and clogs, I watched the printer whilst it was printing and thought I could see movement in the Bowden tube so I marked it and restarted a print and it was the Bowden tube, it was riding up and down, have you had this problem and if you have how did you fix it?
Hi DrVax, would you be able to educate us on how to program Ender 3 v2 after install the Micro Swiss Direct Drive Kit with BLTouch installed? After installing it, the offset is all, things are pretty messy. Offset is all wrong...
I gave up on my MicroSwiss all metal hotend 😩 I also print mostly PLA. I can not for the life of me get rid of the stringing, I paired with the MicroSwiss direct drive BUT when I use the direct drive with the stock hotend it was perfection.
I have a micro swiss clone from gulf coast robotics and I run it at 240 for pla. Works great.
Retraction set for 1.0mm + 1% Bowden tube length (0.5% for Capricorn!) works for me, every time.
Evidence?
Two Anycubic i3 Mega's, Anycubic Mega X, Anycubic Kossel Linear Plus, Tevo Little Monster; 25+ kg PLA, 5+ kg PETG, 1 Kg ABS...
The filaments floppy fit in the Bowden tube helps explain why the 1% rule is a good starting place.
Another thing to try: With the filament 'frozen' in a cold hot-end, push and pull on the filament (with extruder released!) to see how much 'free-run' there is in the feed system.
This is gonna show you how far the extruder has to pull back just to relieve pressure at the start of the melt-zone.
Once you know the free-run distance, add this to the actual amount of retraction you wanted in the first place...1.0mm to 1.5mm is about right.
BTW, Capricorn tubing has half the free-run as the same length of white 'stock' PTFE tubing.
All the usual caveats about filament types apply...
Some Cura stock settings suck, big time.
I am aust curious, did you use combing or any kind of nozzle wipe setting when you did the test print?
I had combing on but not in skin. I find that combing all creates terrible top and bottom layers. Here is a video about it:
th-cam.com/video/fEvCLJrzIfU/w-d-xo.html
@@MakeWithTech I just followed this link and I don't think the target video is anything to do with combing.
Super video
Short version: never ever turn off your printer while the hotend temperature is higher than 100°C.
And this is with whatever hotend you have.
Correct. Thanks for sharing.
It wouldn't be an issue with water cooled hot end.
Hm. I plan to build in my printer an out power off, that cuts the power. So I will have to do what DrVax mentioned. I will have the printer first to retract the filament and then wait til the hotend is below 100C and then do a shutdown.
i wait untill lower than 50c if u want to swap filament 210 manual push in a bit then pull out for easy loading.. not sure how u can say its no better than stock .. its way better than stock imo
~50 degrees is the most safe spot. this is what industrial printer makers recommend.
Some of the Micro Swiss setups have the 2 screws between the heat block and heatsink. I've seen one video where there was, instead of the screws, flats for a wrench to hold the heatblock while you tighten it. I bought a copy of the Micro Swiss from Amazon for about 12 bucks US, and this one has the screws. I have been having tons of jams, and just figured out that the heatsink was getting too hot, and the melted material was, since it was under pressure, expanding and blocking as you say. Now, two things, the Micro Swiss has miserable fins. They seem very weak looking, with too little surface area. Second, it seemed that it was stupid to have screws on there transferring heat! I was tempted to remove them to see if it would work. Then, I watched a video by 3D Printing Nerd who installed a Micro Swiss WITH the screws, and he TOOK THEM OUT after tightening the nozzle. This answers so many questions! I am testing again without the screws. Obviously, if you need to remove the nozzle, you need to reinstall them. It makes so much sense. Why would you make such a thin titanium heatbrake tube, and then have 2 screws just trucking the head up there anyhow!! Hoping for good results now....
When testing precision machined parts like a hot end I would recommend purchasing the original part and not a clone.
Don't blame Micro Swiss for problems with a cheap knock-off. They may be due to something the original got right but the knock-off got wrong.
@@MakeWithTech That would be easy to say if you had the cash to get the original. I don't, but as a machinist I can also do my own quality control, so for me, this was way better than getting the original. I am getting all the benefits of the original now, just with less initial support from the seller. Here my intent was to share tips that could help others like me save time and money.
@@scottwillis5434 My intent was not to blame Micro Swiss, and their cooling fin design, despite the way it looks to me, does work! I think it's a great design, as long as people who use them know what they are getting into.
I wouldn’t buy an inexpensive clone.
👍 Always great content! This leaves me with a question....Are all nozzle threads the same length? When I change my nozzle on my standard CR 10 hotend I make sure the bowden tube is touching the nozzle. No gap. How do you do that on a all metal hotend?
Maybe some brands of nozzles have shorter threads. Will that leave a gap to promote clogging issues? Always wondered before I changed over.
On the Micro Swiss Hot End the bowden tube DOES NOT go down into the hotend up to the nozzle. It just connects to the top of the cooling block.
@@MakeWithTech yep but don't the nozzle butt up against a "metal" tube? Think of it this way if you left your nozzle loose in a all metal hotend will that leave a gap? So if brand of nozzles threads are shorter that will leave a gap between the "metal" tube and the nozzle.
Now I understand you question. Micro Swiss sells nozzles. In fact very good nozzles that are plated so they last longer. I would probably either just buy my nozzles from them, or verify with Micro Swiss that the nozzles are a standard size. If you find out from them please share with the channel.
@@MakeWithTech I will. Maybe this is another reason people are having problems.
I think the best way to install the nozzle is to tighten the heat break in the heater and heat the hot end, then tighten the nozzle when hot. It should meet the end of the heat break and not bottom on the heater block. MicroSwiss has a good video on the install.
store.micro-swiss.com/products/all-metal-hotend-kit-for-cr-10
this step is at the 5 minute mark
Smaller diameter Capricorn PTFE tube can minimize the stringing then although can't be perfect?
I find Capricorn very overrated. I received it with the hole off center and 2 mm, not 1,95. In tolerance it is, but nothing special IMO.
Hey Doc, have you managed to get your retractions dialed in for your ender? Im running a microswiss with dual gear extruder on my cr10s and still get some stringing issues that I cant seem to resolve. Any advice you could give would greatly help, my current retraction is at 5mm and a speed of 50mm/s with zhop enabled.
First try lowering your temperature. Second I use 5mm retraction at 25mm/sec. However every extruder setup is a bit different. I also use Capricorn Bowden tube which seems to help.
@@MakeWithTech Thanks for getting back to me so fast! Im currently running PLA at 200 but I might benefit from dropping it to 195. I currently have a capricorn tube as well just need to dial it in a bit more, I'll mess with the retraction speed and temp and go from there. Thanks!
I have a Balco (cocoon create touch/wanhao I3 clone) 3d printer using the edit end g-code I could eject the filament totally as if to change filament, then just use add filament when I want to print.
might need to play with that E-2 setting to get the right retraction to eject/change filament and not have the motor run needlessly once filament is out. I think I'd need about 55mm retraction.
is there a reason NOT to do this with the all metal hot end (not the micro swiss one)?
Problem, my microswiss has heatcreep issues. Should I put some thermal paste between the heatbreak and heatsink?
You have the Feed mechanism labeled Extruder. I consider the nozzle assembly as the extruder. I ran a floor of car length extruders that extruded at 10,000 ft. per minute. The world needs a lot a ZipLock zippers:) On those things, they have a huge hopper as the Feed mechanism. 3D printers are a filament Feed. That feed mechanism would be more precisely considered a Tractor Gear. Beam me up Scotty:)
So I replaced my original hotend on my ender 3. & switched to microswift hotend. The pla is printing just fine. But when I switch filament to abs. It seems that the abs is not oozing out of the nozzle..
I had clogging issues with my all metal hot end due to the retraction needed when using a bowden tube, after moving to direct drive I've not had a single issue.
Somewhat late response, but at least on the Micro Swiss hotend, you're not supposed to have a retract distance of more than 4mm. Unfortunately, the distance is usually higher in default settings in most slicers.
Even with stock hotend on cr10 I never had issues. There is no good reason for Bowden, though. Direct is the way to go in the times of Orbiter et al., Pressure advance and oscillation compensation
I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of clogs people are experiencing (with most hot ends) is that they aren't doing heated nozzle changes. Either that or improper tube installation. I was having a ton of clogs due to both of those issues when I was new to printing because I did a Cap tube upgrade and probably didn't push it in far enough. So fixing that stopped it from oozing out of the heat block. But I was still getting some clogs until someone said to heat the nozzle before tightening it all the way. Expands the metal and melts any goo so you can twist it in a little further. Ever since I started doing that I haven't had any clogs (except a couple caused by just trying the wrong settings). 3d printing just isn't as easy as some people want it to be yet, so they're quick to blame the equipment.
I agree this is a big issue. I also think people remove filament improperly. In particular, with an all-metal hot end it is important to heat up the nozzle, push OUT some filament, then pull back.
P.S. I have started a new discussion forum at forum.drvax.com where we can all have more elaborate discussions and share pictures on our prints and printers. Check it out.
@@MakeWithTech Will do!
What type of Aftermarket direct drive extruder is available Sovol SV01 ? Thanks.
heat up push in and pull out works a treat
Yep. Work for me every time.
The issue could be that the parts are put together when warm, when they cool they shrink leaving tiny gaps, the hot end should be put in the freezer for a couple of hours before assembly then put together and tightened up, this will ensure that there are no gaps when there is differential heating between the parts because they are tight when cold and therefore will only get tighter as they expand
Not sure I buy this. I always though parts expand when heated and contract when cold. However since not all materials expand at the same rate threaded components tend to get loose when heated.
I heated my hot end to 230c then retightened everything. Save as the procedure for replacing a nozzle.
@@MakeWithTech E3D suggests heating above typical print temps for hot assembly with the idea that parts will tighten to provide good seals at print temps. They recommend 285C for the all-metal E3D v6.
ty, for tips. IF youupdate GCODE to pull out 5 cm... well also add GCODE before print add 5 cm? should work?
So when you have something that is not perfect, you buy a printer that do this perfect out of the box? hehe.
is the stock xy2 pro hot end all mettle ? as some saying yes some say no?
I would like to see a better print with the ender 5 and can you instal a direct drive on the ender 5?
You can but I am not sure I would. Direct drive extruders are much heavier since the extruder stepper motor is mounted with the printhead. The printers I own with direct drive extruders all have dual X axis configurations holding the hot end and often dual Y axis stepper motors. I would be concerned that the Ender 5 X axis configuration would not be stiff enough to handle a direct drive extruder and this would results in ringing and other artifacts.
Check out the flex drive and zesty nimble, they are remote direct drives that give all the benefits of both direct and bowden printing by keeping the moving carriage free of a motor. I am not sure if the print quality increase will be noticeable but it should make slicer tuning easier with the shorter retraction.
DrVax is right, a direct drive on the ender 5 will handicap the speed/acceleration/jerk you can print at otherwise you will replace the less stringing with ghosting and layer inconsistencies
Bump up nozzle temp by 5°c. I don’t retract after print has finished. Never had a problem.
Thanks for the comment. I started at higher temperature but at least on my Ender 5 have found that is not necessary for my prints.
At the momemnt I use a e3dv6 (clone) on my CR10. I have done good prints with this hotend, sometimes it fails and I can't find the reason, lots of wiring due to the fans I use. I would like to put the original look on the printer with the original cooler. I thought to instal a microswiss hotend on it. I've seen some videos with the people making some alterations on the software to use the microswiss. Is that realy necessary? I print only in PLA and ABS. I would like to ear your advice. Thanks in advance
Get a mini blow torch lighter. When it gets stuck use the lighter to heat up the whole hot end end from tube to cooling block.
Also don't let dried scraped off elmer's glue fly up as you clean off your bed and drop down into the feed of your plastic into the hot end.
The glue dust can cause major blockages.
I also cut a small section of dish wash spunge and slice that half way down the center and slip that over the top of my feed line over the hot end to prevent anything from getting into the tube to begin with.
I love Micro Swiss, I have no issues. I have 2 all metal MK10's on my Flashforge, Now for my Ender 3 I did it a little different. I do not like the their Creality style Hot End, I want a thermal tube that goes through the heatsink. So I used a Creality CR-10 heatsink, a Micro Swiss MK8 all metal thermal tube, and a Micro Swiss E3D style coated nozzle, of course I am using a titan clone direct drive also, no issues. Also, if you read the instructions from Micro Swiss, you should print a little hotter with an all metal hot end 5 -10 C.
so I assume you use an e3d style heater block since it don't think an e3d style nozzle will thread into a heatblock like the MK8 or the microswiss
Thanks for sharing. I also have had no issues.
@@alberdw1985 just a clone block from a bunch I have for spares.
So what is a good number to have the printer pull back in the end code? Stock is 2mm....is 25mm too much to pull back to be able to change filament before the next print?
The standard retraction of 2mm is just to reduce the pressure in the hot end. If you want to change filament you should pull back the length of your bowden tube plus a couple of mm.
Does anyone know if this can be installed on the Monoprice MP-10. I know it's very similar to the CR-10 but just want to make sure.
I do not think it will work. The hotend is different in the MP 10 than the CR 10.
@@MakeWithTech Dang. Thanks for the reply!!
I wanna know what makes the microswis 3x the price of other all metal titanium heat break hot ends
Only had my Ender 6 for about 3 mouths and installed a iCloud Swiss hotend. From the start I had to keep taking the hotend apart to unblock it so clad of this video, but could someone tell me do I change both the G1 E-2 to G1 E-8 to move the filament out by 8mm. Thanks
Would this all be the same with pla plus?
It really is about retraction. No more than 3mm with Bowden. I have run one for 250+ hours, I have had 2 jams all due to retraction. My only gripe is that it can be picky to tune for petg, because of the retraction sensitivity. I strongly recommend picking up a copper mk8 heat block. Temps will be more stable and the added mass is great to push the flow rate up.
Oh and if your pulling filament during a change... Make sure you crank the temp way up usually 15-20c above printing temps.
Thanks for sharing your experience. This video was produced quite a while ago and could use an update.
This video was so helpful in making a buying decision and where to start with settings... So thank you so much making it.. It's still really relevant with all the creality printers out there.
Filament in micro-swiss hotend heartbreak or above, means retraction too high, 's default 6.5mm from cura, is 2mm too much.
stepper driver has voltage (extruder) but doesnt power motor on my ender 3, the cables test out as working, when i swap out the xyz, the extruder motor works - what is the next test ?
If one stepper motor is not working be when plugged into another motor's cable it work it does sound like a bad cable. It is possible that the control board is bad but replacing a soldered in stepper driver is a difficult task. Replacementing the control board is always a possibility.
First I would swap two of the cables completely and see if another cable works properly.
@@MakeWithTech grateful and hope you enjoying passover - im baffled but sure it happened when i didnt realise that the cable was glued in and applied too much force b4 realising, lucky ive ordered a skr turbo but still waiting on it - ill be more careful in future - i tested the cables via continuity and they fine so must have damaged the plug in side as there is power of 0.72 on the driver - thanks for getting back to me