@@NEMOTHEMORMON RIGHT!!! Or how Oliver Cowdrey can literally be a witness to the book of mormon, but isn't a 'reliable witness' when it comes to his documenting Joseph's "filthy" affair with Fanny Alger. Like, WHICH ONE IS IT!!!! Gah. The Mormon church's blatant intellectual dishonesty drives me insane.
That’s how fair Mormon works . Everything’s a contradiction to each other argument, I know about 4-5 years ago when I had some major questions and it worked. It just eases the confused soul that is looking for an answer or confirmation bias . It worked then but nit this time . I went deeper
The Hotel Utah had the largest bar in the west. Joseph F. Smith defended this at general conference in 1911, blaming local laws allowing it and saying tourists would go elsewhere if their needs weren’t met. The financial benefits to the Church was also attractive.
Hi, listening to 6:58-7:06 a point that is worth noting is that D&C 89:12-13 says that meat should only be consumed during times of winter, cold, or famine. This however is clearly not followed today as Ward BBQs, at which meat is served, take place during summer months.
This bothers me also, the word of wisdom is so often focused on the main don'ts. But we skip don't eat meat unless winter or famine, and rarely talk about the do's which far outweigh the don'ts.
@@thelawofpsychegnosis9228 Just to add to your comment; in Salt Lake City is the Anniversary Inn. Yiu can rent themed rooms for a special occasions. But the building it uses, use to be Brigham Young’s beer brewery. In fact, the hill it’s located on (which is at the base of the University of Utah) is called Brewers Hill in honor of Brigham Young. But let me add a personal anecdote. My grandfather married a good Mormon girl (my grandmother obviously) but was not a Mormon himself. Eventually he converted, but coffee was the biggest thing he couldn’t give up at the time...or so the story goes because we found all sorts of vodka bottles in his garage when he died but that’s not the point. The point being; the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints told him he had to STOP drinking coffee, but COULD drink Sanka! (Sanka is a coffee substitute without caffeine BUT IS STILL SERVED HOT). So I completely agree; it’s about control.
Great work! It's clear the church can no longer uphold the notion that the WoW was somehow ahead of, rather than a product of, Smith's time. Thank you for pointing it out.
Wow I am shocked at the amount of info they shared/finally admitted. Still not the full/half truth but very interesting. Lots of contradictions for a short video 😬 Thank you for your videos!
Being under the pressure of constant UNDUE INFLUENCE - from birth - actually pushed me into alcohol, drugs, casual sex - anything to self-sooth and cope with the massive amounts of guilt and shame thrown at me daily from the cult and my narcissistic parent. of course, my lack of self control only spot-lighted ME as the problem. only in middle-age have i forgiven myself and am working to forgive the church and my parent. baby steps
The good lord could’ve saved a lot of misery if he’d said Wash your hands Brush your teeth Boil your water Apply bread mold to wounds But here we are drinking decaf coffee and Diet Coke, overdosing on sugar and beef, addicted to rx drugs. Thanks, Joseph.
This was so good. On point, and great points made! I especially love the last question. If early leaders of the church were drinking alcohol, and drinking alcohol impairs our ability to receive revelation, was there actual revelation received by the early leaders of the church? I read somewhere that Heber J Grant had a little difficulty staying away from barley drinks. This might be part of the reason the WofW became mandatory for temple admittance. Nemo, could you fact check that please? Thank you for your work.
Emma: "Joseph, if you want this shit cleaned up, from now on you can do it yourself." Smith: "ME clean it up? Oh, wait...I am receiving a revelation on the matter."
Hi, I really like your videos and your reasoning. I don't know if this counts as fact check but is it possible to do a video regarding Joseph claims of being descendent of Ephraim? Keep the good work, I really enjoy your videos
The word of wisdom doesn't just say that meat should be eaten sparingly. It says meat should only be eaten in winter, or in times of cold or famine. But since 99.9% of Mormons completely ignore this part of the Word of Wisdom the video just omits it. Convenient. In verse 15 it is reiterated that meat is only to be eaten in times of famine and excess of hunger. But since Mormons probably eat more meat than the average American family they just completely ignore it.
When I used to teach about the Word of Wisdom (or the modern version call the Lords' Law of Health), I found church members don't have a good understanding of what's included. They will swear Coke or other colas are included. They also think anything with caffeine is forbidden. In their minds this also includes Wink, Fresca, Tab, Mountain Dew, and some chocolate. The W of W also suggests eating meat sparingly, which many don't observe. When I asked about this it was suggested 4.5 lbs. per week of meat. It is also important to realize various items in the Word of Wisdom were not taken seriously in 1833. They may have been suggested but not forbidden. They became commandments and taken more seriously later one. The interpretation of hot drinks is also confusing to some members. They may see "hot drinks" as interpreted as hot chocolate, carob coffee, herbal tea, Chinese flower tea, and chai when these are not forbidden. There is no mention of drugs in the W of W, so the Lord's Law of Health is the modern version. It includes the W of W, but also provides for abuse of prescription drugs and illegal drugs. Some jurisdictions have now legalized marijuana. So the church has said weed is okay if it is medical based use.
Good to see you continuing your fact checking the "Now You Know Series." On a slightly different point, it might be coincidence, but Kwaku and friends seem to have stopped doing embarassing uploads on fairmormon, since you and the "Pneumanosophy Academy, started analysing them.
David Holdstock hopefully the church has realised what a failure they have been, if they haven’t, I’ll be right her to pushback. I’m looking to continue to diversify, so any suggestions are welcome!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON I like the objective, dead cool way you present the "fact-checking series." All we want ...is the truth! Sometimes, humour, charisma, anger, etc can get in the way. We can have these things, but only as long as they don't distract us from the issues in hand
It's interesting how the little clip art avatar representing Joseph is never depicted smoking or drinking, when there is evidence that he did and no reason to think his use was any less than the next fellow.
I would like to hear more about the inequality in the treatment of women through history and currently. I was only in the last few years that they actually had women leaders on the wall in the Salt Lake City visitor Center.
Great work as usual Nemo. And just to be ckear on my personal life, i pretty much lived the word of wisdom before I became LDS. . It is so interesting about the contradictions of hot beverages.
Instead of cofee many "Mormon" pioneers used Mormon Tea. A plant that grows in the sourhwest. This plant contains a ephedrine-like compound commonly found in the Ephedra family. Though it doesn't contain pure ephedrine mormon tea can be used as a stimulate just as cofee has been used.
This is off topic....but would like a program investigating the churches secure 'Granite mountain Vault' in Salt Lake up Little cottonwood canyon! Why is it so guarded and so secretive?? How long has it been there? Why would such a secretive structure be in place?? Uncovering what is in there and what is going on with that place, would be a very interesting topic to dig into and share info!! Just a possible topic suggestion Nemo?
My father worked in the vault many years ago. I have been inside. This is where the church stores genealogical records on micro fish. I left the church years ago; but was a member at the time as was anyone who worked there.
The first 3 verses of D&C 89 (to be sent a greeting not by commandment etc) are an introduction. The actual revelation starts at verse 4 with the words commonly used at the commencement of a revelation, "Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord..."
Advised to stay away from addictive substances?? You mean, like sugar? Sugar is more addictive that cocaine. They ONLY reason they're advocating the use of pharmaceuticals is because they have investments in them.
As you underscored, it is very interesting that the church says that some substances can hinder spiritual guidance while some church leaders have regularly consumed those same substances in the past. I thought it was rather brave of them to mention eating meat sparingly as that is so often ignored. My question: when did soups become permissible again, and did anyone ever take their restriction seriously?
My dad obeyed the word of wisdom. His favorite line was "you coul put all the alcohol in a thimble he had ever consumed in his life" unfortunately prescription drugs wrecked his kidneys and he suffered terribly before death.
Thanks Nemo, I'm just finding many of your videos and you bring up needed topics. The word of wisdom was given as advice and recommendation only. It was never meant to be used to FORCE people into any compliance. It was intended for people to take the advice or not, and how to interpret it for their needs and that depends on individual definitions of such words as "hot" or "sparingly." It's about Free Agency and God never takes that away, man does. I made the choice to not do tobacco or coffee (to me both stink), or the teas (terrible after taste), or beer (looks and smells like dog output). I do drink hot chocolate, colas and other soft drinks-- and yes, sugar is highly addictive. But I chose to drink it. Man has decided it's a rule to be able to attend the temple. The word of wisdom has also been changed from its original writing. Mostly with punctuation, but it does make a difference in meaning. Recently man has also made a rule that limits members their ability to buy their garments. No recommend, no garments. You are so correct pointing out that members are "HELD HOSTAGE", and I add to that, "to the dictates of men".
Thank you for demonstrating again that the "Now you know" series is a hodgepodge of random, contradictory, and often inaccurate or semi-accurate speculations of this or that committee of men.
I’ve heard a lot of members claim we shouldn’t drink coffee and tea because they contain tannins. But so do strawberries, cereals, chocolate, etc. members like to say it doesn’t matter why we shouldn’t because we are commanded not to and that should be good enough. But they still always try to attribute a reason to it anyways. That’s always struck me as odd.
Here's a question: I'd like to know why I must pay to volunteer? I have volunteered many places throughout my life in a variety of capacities and didn't have to pay to do so..... but to go on a mission as an senior adult, I have to pay my way. On a 'fixed income' it's pretty difficult to come up with the amount of money required each month. As a volunteer camp host, I've worked in exchange for my camp spot (along with water and power), at no cost. Sometimes, there are amenities too, such as propane. I would think missionary housing, at least, would be taken care of as a volunteer in places away from home....I would think.
Cont. My bro, T BM max, told me last month that green tea was the evil component of hot drinks. “WHAT? No more restrictions, please!” In known to him, I’m in faith crisis mode
@@NEMOTHEMORMON ME TOO! Well not really. I know there's so much more still. I see it like a really long book or series. Like CS Lewis, but someone has torn out many chapters and renumbered the chapters to make it a better story. And we're finding those missing pages to get the original story back. This story is shit.
I Have been trying to learn,' what the bible teaches us about drinking alcohol, and how the LDS church teachings differ', can you please give a talk about this? What are your thoughts on someone who has alcoholism, 'A disease', but can not enter the LDS temple? Alcoholism is a chronic disease. Treatment may help, but it can not be cured. I feel I am being treated unfairly. I could enter the Temple if I had diabetes, or any other chronic disease, I could enter the LDS Temple.
That subject about hot drinks. I have a number of friends that are descendants of Hyrum Smith. They share an interesting story. When the Word of Wisdom was shared with members, they were in a quandary not knowing what it meant. Joseph couldn't be approached and so folks went to Hyrum. When questioned he said 'Coffee and tea, of course'. You state an interesting conundrum in the clip about sodas, herbal teas, hot chocolate, etc. Today we know that excessive hot drinks will lead to mouth, esophageal, and/or stomach cancer. In a sense Hyrum was half correct, coffee and tea is bad for us, however, so is chicken soup that is too hot or any other liquid. The caffeine content was always an easy target to use that became impractical with so many other common things having caffeine. If LDS, Inc. had stayed with just simply hot drinks they would have been on solid healthy ground, instead, they went a different direction showing Mormon urban understanding coupled with many conference talks are ludicrous.
Wow. I just received a testimony of JS and crew getting snockered in the jail, ….as the thunder rolled. Interesting that John Taylor wrote this! 😮 was there.
One of the first things Brigham Young dead arriving in the valley was to plant grapes for wine. On the south end of Main Street in Salt Lake is a bar called whiskey Street. Why? Because that end of Main Street was in fact called whiskey Street and frequent in often by Brigham Young. Fact! Go there and check it out yourself and read the history.
At 11:44. The final part of the video is about obedience and humility to God. That's probably what the WW teaches the most, rather than health and happiness effects.
A later interpretation of "hot drinks" means tea and coffee. To me, an obvious question is why did it have to be interpreted as such in the first place? Why was God so vague and mealy mouthed on the matter? Why didn't God just say "no tea or coffee"? Didn't God know what coffee and tea were?
The Word of Wisdom was not strictly enforced until some years after the revelation. It was more of a recommendation. Eventually it became required for membership. Today, you can't get a temple recommend unless you observe it..
and if you can't get a temple recommend you can't perform the temple ordinances and if you can't perform the temple ordinances you can't reach the celestial heaven, therefore drinking coffee means you will never become god. Coffee is pretty serious stuff.
MARK 7 18 “Don’t you understand either?” he asked. “Can’t you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you? 19 Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.) 20 And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. 21 For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. 23 All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.”
There are so many things in our modern diet that are detrimental to health like too much sugar, high fructose corn syrup, refined carbohydrates, all the chemical additives, etc. There are quite a lot of overweight LDS church members these days. How come the Lord doesn't come out with new dietary guidelines to keep the saints healthy? If the Lord was so concerned back in the 1830s about what members put in their bodies, why hasn't Rusty received an updated revelation? Why are morbidly obese saints allowed in the temple as long as they don't use tobacco, alcohol, and tea/coffee? Being morbidly obese is as unhealthy as anything identified in the Word of Wisdom as harmful.
There were quite a few incidences that led up to the moralistic decision to ban alcohol via Word of Wisdom Story 1 Church paints a story that Joseph smith one day at the pulpit (at the @ Navoo) was overcome with the spirit of the devil and vomited at a priesthood meeting and he prayed with his fellow priesthood brethren and they were lifted into a spiritual experience. When in reality by the account of a few journals of men in attendance... Joseph Smith came into the priesthood meeting hungover and as he was about to greet the Priesthood brethren, he couldn't hold it down and projectile vomited into the congregation which in turn caused other men sober and not sober with weak stomachs to reciprocate vomiting. No spiritual uplifting occurred. It became such a stir, that there was some upheaval that went into the community to question the leadership and his example. The women who were requested to clean the mess off the pulpit, pew, and temple floor hours were not very happy, most especially that the vomit had occurred hours ago. Other incidences and issues, Kurt references quite a few well th-cam.com/video/Pkm0IZbF5ns/w-d-xo.html Another issue that had occurred was during the time of polygamy. On the account of a few church temperate leaders journals. While they were passing Joseph Smith's barn they spotted Joseph Smith half-clothed chasing young drunk girls through his barn and through his field jumping in hay bails 'falling on them'. Apparently, Joseph had given them wine while he was drunk himself. The issue caused quite a stir, it seemed that this occurrence contributed to the saints seeing alcohol with great repugnance. Brigham Young, even as he was a drinker of whisky himself (but it seemed he handled his liquor and he used it to wind down in his own personal time) was personally embarrassed to reference Joseph Smith's drinking habits to provide wisdom to the saints on its use.
Nemo, I’m curious how it was growing up in a culture that highly valued tea when your religion forbade it. It might be hard to answer in a comment, but I often wonder about LDS people in the UK and tea.
Great question, it wasn't easy! The stereotype is pretty accurate, but I saw it as a lot of missionary opportunities! Gets awkward fast though when you need to take part in the ritual drinks run in the office and you don't know how to make it...
@@NEMOTHEMORMON thank you for the response! I know some cultures have exceptions to the WoW if it’s too big a thing to abstain. If you’re willing to share, do you drink tea now, and if so, how was it to finally be able to participate with your friends and coworkers? :)
Oh wow great video! I’m sure that drinking coffee or tea isn’t going to impair my ability to receive spiritual guidance. Drugs I can understand! Their ending remark makes no sense whatsoever. Very happy Ex-Mormon here BTW! 👏🤩 You asked what we would like to see you make a video of next and I have a suggestion. I would love to see what your thoughts would be on the banned Mormon cartoon reaction video from the “saints unscripted” TH-cam channel. If you had time I think it could be really interesting! Thanks 🙏☺️ I’ll post a link t ok the cartoon and also a link to the reaction video to the cartoon. th-cam.com/video/n3BqLZ8UoZk/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/psZr4eSBlbw/w-d-xo.html
Colossians 2 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence
I have one I would like for you to investigate. I found this the other day and it is ugly. I hope you can prove or disprove it for me. I just want the truth and I can handle whatever the truth is. Thanks. The True Story of Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley here on youtube.
To be fair smoking causes lung cancer, most coffee has mold in it and as far as alcohol consumption used as a barrier for getting into the temple during prohibition , we believe in obeying the laws of the country in which you live in. If you are doing something that is against the law should you be worthy of go to the temple?
These are all human rules...but GOD IS LAW The "teachings" of most religions are based on their OWN practices. NOT the word of God. MARK 7 18 “Don’t you understand either?” he asked. “Can’t you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you? 19 Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.) 20 And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. 21 For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. 23 All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.”
I like that you brought this scripture up it’s interesting but also in contrast to what God told Moses and the Israelites . They could eat fish but not shell fish , they could eat cow but not dog or pig, they could eat birds but not vultures. Also , in Jesus’s day they didn’t have an abundance of foods with sugar and salt. They didn’t have processed foods, fake food, chemicals , food coloring, food sprayed with Roundup or GMO foods. You need to be a little careful. Maybe what Jesus was saying was a little more metaphorical.
@@roxanejordan4114 Why do ppl compare OT with the NT??... Dont ppl understand Christ came and died to bring a NEW LAW B/c the Israelites were not sticking to the old laws! everything God has created is blessed. GMO, Processed food etc,...is NOT GOD created - its ALTERED - MAN MADE This is why its imperative to have the holy spirit. THAT is your guide in ALL things - and into eternal life :)
I heard that coffee and tea were gotten rid of because the men were so upset about the removal of drinks and tobacco they wanted the women to give up something. True or not true?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Agreed, everything they are doing is a response to the Internet. The juxtaposition of the temperance timeline to the WoW timeline deflates their prophetic claims, and they know this is taking place. So to inoculate members, they bring it up themselves and then tie in something to make it seem prophetic again. That way, when the member sees the information, they can still have a reason to believe. Inoculation, is all about getting just enough of the truth mixed into the narrative that when the whole truth is presented, it can be summarily dismissed by a faithful member. Considering all the money and time they consume, this is flat out fraud. But at least here in the good ole US of A, religions are untouchable, they can do whatever the hell they want and get away with it.
With a cholera outbreak or a bot from bad water anyone could truly understand the reason for over stacking a shopping trolley with toilet paper. Fast forward to 2020.. and covid???.
I give you a D+. You failed to talk about the I'll effects of alcohol and instead seemed to try to articulate that the cholera outbreak a year after the word of wisdom was given was because of the revelation itself while later on criticizing the church leaders for drinking wine. You also failed to point out the actual I'll effects of alcohol that are commonly known to our society as a whole.
Hi fella, I'm very surprised at practically every one of your points raised. I'd have hoped you would have put a little more into the topics raised to give you a better understanding. Ok we're all entitled to our own view but when you go out to the public to express that and appear to reduce the value of something please go into it first. Cheers.
You didn't "fact-check" a single thing. All you did was add context--context that didn't contradict anything in the video. Also, can you please point me to a single apologist who claimed Joseph was illiterate?
According to LDS apologists, Joseph Smith received a revelation about the word of wisdom but it wasn't fully implemented yet because Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith amd John Taylor were intoxicated the night before Joseph Smith and his brother were killed. So the question is, what's the use of that revelation then?
Your link between the cholera outbreak and the word if wisdom is shaky. Although it could have been a contributing factor there's no way of proving your claim. Correlation isn't causation, even if the correlation is compelling.
Thanks for the feedback, from what I remember I definitely was pointing out the irony of the situation more then I was ascribing a causal link. But I will make sure to be more clear in future, thanks!
Mark 7 Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’[d] 8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”
@@jeff-8511 It depends on what you mean for "tea". There are several beverages that sometimes are called "tea" but they're not exactly that. Anyway I guess overall the Church membership in Germany is very strong, specially for leadership. I know for sure in Latin America members are really more "free" and elastic in many issues.
hey nobody the Mormon your choking on Nats and don't seem to have a problem twisting things to your narrative. But I suspect your just preaching to all the other fault finders aren't you.
If something is not written in the word of god, the bible...it is NOT LAW. If ppl actually read the bible - the BOM contradicts what the bible says! so are u followingt he word of god?... or the words of MAN, J Smith??.. THIS - U WILL BE JUDGED BY HARSHLY
He was arrested for trying to scam people.... got off He was charged for trying to defraud people with a fake bank... had to pay a fine Was charged after attacking and destroying a printing press that was about to publish an article that unveiled his polygamy. He was more then not perfect. He was a fraudster.
@@blusheep2 He was not perfect. He did not destroy a printing press. The city council voted on it as it was not protected at the time. 14th amendment was not passed. He was murdered for his belief
@@jonathangatto I haven't investigated how Joseph died. I have only heard bits and pieces such as Joseph being in possession of a gun. But he may have been murdered. He had been tarred and feathered at one point, so someone killing him isn't a giant leap. Not to mention its neither here nor there. It doesn't confirm or deny his religious claims. He did destroy the printing press. The 14th amendment isn't what upset the government. It was the first amendment. Joseph was recognized as a public figure. I don't know if he was mayor or something else, so when a public figure destroys a press, it is a violation of the 1st amendment, and it doesn't change the fact that the reason he went after the press was because someone was going to unveil what he was doing in secret and denying in public. City councils don't get to demolish or shut down the press. The scripture says that we will know false teachers and prophets by their fruit. Joseph Smith really struggles in that regard. Those that support him have to do a lot of spin to make him sound like just an everyday imperfect man. Do you mind answering a question that is off topic. I'm trying to understand how a Mormon truly feels about the doctrine of exaltation to god. I know all about the doctrine. I've read the King Follett discourse about a week ago. I think I have a grasp of it, but when I've discussed this with Mormons I get the impression that they aren't real comfortable with the idea though they accept it intellectually. I've asked some if they would be willing to say in confidence (assuming they do all the right things), "I will be a God. I will be like the Most High!" In spite, of their outward acceptance of the doctrine, no Mormon has ever typed those words. They have all avoided doing so. This is strange to me although I think I understand it. Its like the trinity doctrine in Christianity. Its not an easy doctrine and no one in the church wants to call a man, a god, unless he is. So there can be a hesitancy to declare it loudly. So, are you willing to say this line or does it make you uncomfortable?
@@blusheep2 Using inflammatory language, they voiced their discontent with the practice of plural marriage, Joseph Smith’s teachings on the nature of God from his recent King Follett sermon, and his mixing of religious and civic authority in Nauvoo. On Saturday, June 8, and the following Monday, June 10, the Nauvoo City Council convened to determine a course of action. There were multiple reasons the council felt the need to act. Most significantly, the Saints had experienced violence in Missouri and Ohio and, with tension mounting in Illinois, the council members were concerned about the Expositor’s potential to incite further violence against both the Saints and the owners of the press. Additionally, in the honor culture of 19th-century America, men were expected to respond to public attacks on their character, a social norm that made it difficult to let offenses pass. With the sanction of the city council, Joseph Smith ordered a marshal, with the assistance of the Nauvoo Legion, to destroy the printing press. On Monday evening, June 10, the marshal and his posse of approximately 100 men removed the press, scattered the type, and burned the remaining copies of the newspaper. The Nauvoo City Council had reason to believe their actions were legal. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which prohibits government interference with the press, applied only to the federal government, not state and local governments, until after the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868.
@@jonathangatto Yeah, perfect. You make my point for me. 1. The Nauvoo City Council: Joseph Smith served as mayor of this council that voted to end the printing press. 2. Destroyed the printing press: Joseph Smith used his own "Nauvoo Legion" to destroy it. 100 Mormon men did the work. 3. Honor culture: I think, applied to this scenario, this is a lie but even if its not, it doesn't give the Mayor of a town or anyone else the right to destroy personal property because its critical of their person or religion. 4. 14th Amendment: Its true that the 14th amendment wasn't enacted yet but the state of Illinois had from its founding in 1787, protections for free speech and the press. So this is, at best, misleading. How about that question I asked you? If your not going to answer it, can you tell me why you won't? Again, it seems like Mormons are nervous about making such claims though its their doctrine and the focus of their ordinances. Help me understand, so I can treat you fairly.
It is funny the church uses Emma as a credible source for the world of wisdom but then says she cannot be trusted regarding polygamy.
Absolutely, when it comes to sources they pick and choose in a way that would put cafeteria mormons to shame!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON RIGHT!!!
Or how Oliver Cowdrey can literally be a witness to the book of mormon, but isn't a 'reliable witness' when it comes to his documenting Joseph's "filthy" affair with Fanny Alger.
Like, WHICH ONE IS IT!!!!
Gah. The Mormon church's blatant intellectual dishonesty drives me insane.
That’s how fair Mormon works . Everything’s a contradiction to each other argument, I know about 4-5 years ago when I had some major questions and it worked. It just eases the confused soul that is looking for an answer or confirmation bias . It worked then but nit this time . I went deeper
Do you pray? Try talking with God before you speak against his prophets!
@@bondfire1613 lmfao 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The Hotel Utah had the largest bar in the west. Joseph F. Smith defended this at general conference in 1911, blaming local laws allowing it and saying tourists would go elsewhere if their needs weren’t met. The financial benefits to the Church was also attractive.
Hi, listening to 6:58-7:06 a point that is worth noting is that D&C 89:12-13 says that meat should only be consumed during times of winter, cold, or famine. This however is clearly not followed today as Ward BBQs, at which meat is served, take place during summer months.
Very good point!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Not to mention the fact that the church owns the largest cattle ranch in Florida!
I didn’t know that!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON th-cam.com/video/Niks92Ab5N4/w-d-xo.html link to the promo for the farm in Florida
This bothers me also, the word of wisdom is so often focused on the main don'ts. But we skip don't eat meat unless winter or famine, and rarely talk about the do's which far outweigh the don'ts.
Did you know that in Salt Lake Brigham Young distilled whisky.... Not a lot of people know that
I did come across it while researching this video, wasn't quite sure how to include it though! Cheers for bringing it up!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON it's all about control... They were happy making it but the federal government wanted to tax them... So Brigham says no
I knew that. Ironic isn’t it?
@@thelawofpsychegnosis9228 Just to add to your comment; in Salt Lake City is the Anniversary Inn. Yiu can rent themed rooms for a special occasions. But the building it uses, use to be Brigham Young’s beer brewery. In fact, the hill it’s located on (which is at the base of the University of Utah) is called Brewers Hill in honor of Brigham Young.
But let me add a personal anecdote. My grandfather married a good Mormon girl (my grandmother obviously) but was not a Mormon himself. Eventually he converted, but coffee was the biggest thing he couldn’t give up at the time...or so the story goes because we found all sorts of vodka bottles in his garage when he died but that’s not the point. The point being; the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints told him he had to STOP drinking coffee, but COULD drink Sanka! (Sanka is a coffee substitute without caffeine BUT IS STILL SERVED HOT). So I completely agree; it’s about control.
There is a street with lots of pubs that was called “Whiskey Street.” There’s a bar named “Whiskey Street.” Brigham used to go drink in that area.
Great work! It's clear the church can no longer uphold the notion that the WoW was somehow ahead of, rather than a product of, Smith's time. Thank you for pointing it out.
Realised I forgot to reply to this, thanks!!!
Wow I am shocked at the amount of info they shared/finally admitted. Still not the full/half truth but very interesting. Lots of contradictions for a short video 😬 Thank you for your videos!
I know, right? Glad you enjoyed it!
Another home run for Nemo! Thanks for sharing your thoughtful and intelligent arguments.
Thank you kindly!
Being under the pressure of constant UNDUE INFLUENCE - from birth - actually pushed me into alcohol, drugs, casual sex - anything to self-sooth and cope with the massive amounts of guilt and shame thrown at me daily from the cult and my narcissistic parent. of course, my lack of self control only spot-lighted ME as the problem. only in middle-age have i forgiven myself and am working to forgive the church and my parent. baby steps
The science is pretty conclusive. Church and parents are responsible for pretty much all drug abuse, alcoholism, and promiscuity.
nothing to forgive yourself of
to forgive requires that someone do something wrong
you did nothing wrong
The good lord could’ve saved a lot of misery if he’d said
Wash your hands
Brush your teeth
Boil your water
Apply bread mold to wounds
But here we are drinking decaf coffee and Diet Coke, overdosing on sugar and beef, addicted to rx drugs.
Thanks, Joseph.
This was so good. On point, and great points made!
I especially love the last question. If early leaders of the church were drinking alcohol, and drinking alcohol impairs our ability to receive revelation, was there actual revelation received by the early leaders of the church?
I read somewhere that Heber J Grant had a little difficulty staying away from barley drinks. This might be part of the reason the WofW became mandatory for temple admittance. Nemo, could you fact check that please?
Thank you for your work.
You're very welcome, cheers for watching!
It’s just disgusting that men ever thought it was ok to spit all over the floor for a woman to come clean up their nasty mess
Yeah, that's pretty grim!
@Kiara Clayson,
I've known some old women that have also chewed tobacco. But I think you're absolutely right!
Emma: "Joseph, if you want this shit cleaned up, from now on you can do it yourself."
Smith: "ME clean it up? Oh, wait...I am receiving a revelation on the matter."
It’s just disgusting that women ever thought it was ok to spend excessively and go into debt for a man to come clean up their nasty financial mess
@@zachgarver7922good one lol 😆..but really, Emma was mistreated here . And the fact that she actually spoke up to me, shows her spunk !
Hi, I really like your videos and your reasoning. I don't know if this counts as fact check but is it possible to do a video regarding Joseph claims of being descendent of Ephraim?
Keep the good work, I really enjoy your videos
Great suggestion!
The word of wisdom doesn't just say that meat should be eaten sparingly. It says meat should only be eaten in winter, or in times of cold or famine. But since 99.9% of Mormons completely ignore this part of the Word of Wisdom the video just omits it. Convenient. In verse 15 it is reiterated that meat is only to be eaten in times of famine and excess of hunger. But since Mormons probably eat more meat than the average American family they just completely ignore it.
This is peak content. I appreciate all the work and sources
Cheers! Stick around for more!
When I used to teach about the Word of Wisdom (or the modern version call the Lords' Law of Health), I found church members don't have a good understanding of what's included. They will swear Coke or other colas are included. They also think anything with caffeine is forbidden. In their minds this also includes Wink, Fresca, Tab, Mountain Dew, and some chocolate. The W of W also suggests eating meat sparingly, which many don't observe. When I asked about this it was suggested 4.5 lbs. per week of meat. It is also important to realize various items in the Word of Wisdom were not taken seriously in 1833. They may have been suggested but not forbidden. They became commandments and taken more seriously later one. The interpretation of hot drinks is also confusing to some members. They may see "hot drinks" as interpreted as hot chocolate, carob coffee, herbal tea, Chinese flower tea, and chai when these are not forbidden. There is no mention of drugs in the W of W, so the Lord's Law of Health is the modern version. It includes the W of W, but also provides for abuse of prescription drugs and illegal drugs. Some jurisdictions have now legalized marijuana. So the church has said weed is okay if it is medical based use.
Good to see you continuing your fact checking the "Now You Know Series."
On a slightly different point, it might be coincidence, but Kwaku and friends seem to have stopped
doing embarassing uploads on fairmormon, since you and the "Pneumanosophy Academy, started analysing them.
David Holdstock hopefully the church has realised what a failure they have been, if they haven’t, I’ll be right her to pushback. I’m looking to continue to diversify, so any suggestions are welcome!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON I like the objective, dead cool way you present the "fact-checking series." All we want ...is the truth! Sometimes, humour, charisma, anger, etc can get in the way. We can have these things, but only as long as they don't distract us from the issues in hand
It's interesting how the little clip art avatar representing Joseph is never depicted smoking or drinking, when there is evidence that he did and no reason to think his use was any less than the next fellow.
I would like to hear more about the inequality in the treatment of women through history and currently. I was only in the last few years that they actually had women leaders on the wall in the Salt Lake City visitor Center.
Certainly on my list of topics to discuss!
And why women in general leadership positions don't receive a $100,000 + stipend like the male leaders do. Just a question...
I enjoyed hearing about the history around alcohol and the availability of water.
Cheers, it was a very interesting article, glad you liked it!
Great work as usual Nemo. And just to be ckear on my personal life, i pretty much lived the word of wisdom before I became LDS. . It is so interesting about the contradictions of hot beverages.
Instead of cofee many "Mormon" pioneers used Mormon Tea. A plant that grows in the sourhwest. This plant contains a ephedrine-like compound commonly found in the Ephedra family. Though it doesn't contain pure ephedrine mormon tea can be used as a stimulate just as cofee has been used.
This is off topic....but would like a program investigating the churches secure 'Granite mountain Vault' in Salt Lake up Little cottonwood canyon!
Why is it so guarded and so secretive??
How long has it been there? Why would such a secretive structure be in place?? Uncovering what is in there and what is going on with that place, would be a very interesting topic to dig into and share info!!
Just a possible topic suggestion Nemo?
Might be a bit beyond me, but it's a topic I will look into, thanks for sharing!
My father worked in the vault many years ago. I have been inside. This is where the church stores genealogical records on micro fish. I left the church years ago; but was a member at the time as was anyone who worked there.
I love the church but have so many questions about the word of wisdom.
The first 3 verses of D&C 89 (to be sent a greeting not by commandment etc) are an introduction. The actual revelation starts at verse 4 with the words commonly used at the commencement of a revelation, "Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord..."
Advised to stay away from addictive substances?? You mean, like sugar? Sugar is more addictive that cocaine. They ONLY reason they're advocating the use of pharmaceuticals is because they have investments in them.
Was a huge issue while I was in the 3 world of Ethiopia. The water was unclean. Yea and coffee was essential there.
As you underscored, it is very interesting that the church says that some substances can hinder spiritual guidance while some church leaders have regularly consumed those same substances in the past.
I thought it was rather brave of them to mention eating meat sparingly as that is so often ignored. My question: when did soups become permissible again, and did anyone ever take their restriction seriously?
My dad obeyed the word of wisdom. His favorite line was "you coul put all the alcohol in a thimble he had ever consumed in his life" unfortunately prescription drugs wrecked his kidneys and he suffered terribly before death.
Thanks Nemo, I'm just finding many of your videos and you bring up needed topics. The word of wisdom was given as advice and recommendation only. It was never meant to be used to FORCE people into any compliance. It was intended for people to take the advice or not, and how to interpret it for their needs and that depends on individual definitions of such words as "hot" or "sparingly." It's about Free Agency and God never takes that away, man does. I made the choice to not do tobacco or coffee (to me both stink), or the teas (terrible after taste), or beer (looks and smells like dog output). I do drink hot chocolate, colas and other soft drinks-- and yes, sugar is highly addictive. But I chose to drink it. Man has decided it's a rule to be able to attend the temple. The word of wisdom has also been changed from its original writing. Mostly with punctuation, but it does make a difference in meaning. Recently man has also made a rule that limits members their ability to buy their garments. No recommend, no garments. You are so correct pointing out that members are "HELD HOSTAGE", and I add to that, "to the dictates of men".
Jesus said it’s not what goes into our mouths it’s what comes out of it that’s important.
Thank you for demonstrating again that the "Now you know" series is a hodgepodge of random, contradictory, and often inaccurate or semi-accurate speculations of this or that committee of men.
I’ve heard a lot of members claim we shouldn’t drink coffee and tea because they contain tannins. But so do strawberries, cereals, chocolate, etc. members like to say it doesn’t matter why we shouldn’t because we are commanded not to and that should be good enough. But they still always try to attribute a reason to it anyways. That’s always struck me as odd.
I know people who followed word of wisdom their whole life and never smoked a cigarette and still died from lung cancer.
Here's a question: I'd like to know why I must pay to volunteer? I have volunteered many places throughout my life in a variety of capacities and didn't have to pay to do so..... but to go on a mission as an senior adult, I have to pay my way.
On a 'fixed income' it's pretty difficult to come up with the amount of money required each month.
As a volunteer camp host, I've worked in exchange for my camp spot (along with water and power), at no cost. Sometimes, there are amenities too, such as propane.
I would think missionary housing, at least, would be taken care of as a volunteer in places away from home....I would think.
Cont. My bro, T BM max, told me last month that green tea was the evil component of hot drinks. “WHAT? No more restrictions, please!” In known to him, I’m in faith crisis mode
Shakers stuff is news to me. Another blow.
I keep thinking I've gotten to the end of the new info, then something else comes up!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON ME TOO! Well not really. I know there's so much more still. I see it like a really long book or series. Like CS Lewis, but someone has torn out many chapters and renumbered the chapters to make it a better story. And we're finding those missing pages to get the original story back. This story is shit.
What about the addition of green tea seemingly from a church magazine ? And they put “Official Announcement” on it but later?
I Have been trying to learn,' what the bible teaches us about drinking alcohol, and how the LDS church teachings differ', can you please give a talk about this? What are your thoughts on someone who has alcoholism, 'A disease', but can not enter the LDS temple? Alcoholism is a chronic disease. Treatment may help, but it can not be cured. I feel I am being treated unfairly. I could enter the Temple if I had diabetes, or any other chronic disease, I could enter the LDS Temple.
That subject about hot drinks. I have a number of friends that are descendants of Hyrum Smith. They share an interesting story. When the Word of Wisdom was shared with members, they were in a quandary not knowing what it meant. Joseph couldn't be approached and so folks went to Hyrum. When questioned he said 'Coffee and tea, of course'. You state an interesting conundrum in the clip about sodas, herbal teas, hot chocolate, etc. Today we know that excessive hot drinks will lead to mouth, esophageal, and/or stomach cancer. In a sense Hyrum was half correct, coffee and tea is bad for us, however, so is chicken soup that is too hot or any other liquid. The caffeine content was always an easy target to use that became impractical with so many other common things having caffeine. If LDS, Inc. had stayed with just simply hot drinks they would have been on solid healthy ground, instead, they went a different direction showing Mormon urban understanding coupled with many conference talks are ludicrous.
Wow. I just received a testimony of JS and crew getting snockered in the jail, ….as the thunder rolled. Interesting that John Taylor wrote this! 😮 was there.
One of the first things Brigham Young dead arriving in the valley was to plant grapes for wine. On the south end of Main Street in Salt Lake is a bar called whiskey Street. Why? Because that end of Main Street was in fact called whiskey Street and frequent in often by Brigham Young. Fact! Go there and check it out yourself and read the history.
Everything in Moderation. Period.
At 11:44. The final part of the video is about obedience and humility to God. That's probably what the WW teaches the most, rather than health and happiness effects.
A later interpretation of "hot drinks" means tea and coffee. To me, an obvious question is why did it have to be interpreted as such in the first place? Why was God so vague and mealy mouthed on the matter? Why didn't God just say "no tea or coffee"? Didn't God know what coffee and tea were?
Obviously we don't have answers for everything
The Word of Wisdom was not strictly enforced until some years after the revelation. It was more of a recommendation. Eventually it became required for membership. Today, you can't get a temple recommend unless you observe it..
and if you can't get a temple recommend you can't perform the temple ordinances and if you can't perform the temple ordinances you can't reach the celestial heaven, therefore drinking coffee means you will never become god. Coffee is pretty serious stuff.
MARK 7
18 “Don’t you understand either?” he asked. “Can’t you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you? 19 Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.)
20 And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. 21 For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. 23 All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.”
There are so many things in our modern diet that are detrimental to health like too much sugar, high fructose corn syrup, refined carbohydrates, all the chemical additives, etc. There are quite a lot of overweight LDS church members these days. How come the Lord doesn't come out with new dietary guidelines to keep the saints healthy? If the Lord was so concerned back in the 1830s about what members put in their bodies, why hasn't Rusty received an updated revelation? Why are morbidly obese saints allowed in the temple as long as they don't use tobacco, alcohol, and tea/coffee? Being morbidly obese is as unhealthy as anything identified in the Word of Wisdom as harmful.
Where did you get the commentary you played?
It’s odd how there are so many overweight members, but heaven forbid you drink something healthy like coffee and tea 🤦♀️
There were quite a few incidences that led up to the moralistic decision to ban alcohol via Word of Wisdom
Story 1
Church paints a story that Joseph smith one day at the pulpit (at the @ Navoo) was overcome with the spirit of the devil and vomited at a priesthood meeting and he prayed with his fellow priesthood brethren and they were lifted into a spiritual experience.
When in reality by the account of a few journals of men in attendance...
Joseph Smith came into the priesthood meeting hungover and as he was about to greet the Priesthood brethren, he couldn't hold it down and projectile vomited into the congregation which in turn caused other men sober and not sober with weak stomachs to reciprocate vomiting. No spiritual uplifting occurred. It became such a stir, that there was some upheaval that went into the community to question the leadership and his example. The women who were requested to clean the mess off the pulpit, pew, and temple floor hours were not very happy, most especially that the vomit had occurred hours ago.
Other incidences and issues, Kurt references quite a few well
th-cam.com/video/Pkm0IZbF5ns/w-d-xo.html
Another issue that had occurred was during the time of polygamy.
On the account of a few church temperate leaders journals. While they were passing Joseph Smith's barn they spotted Joseph Smith half-clothed chasing young drunk girls through his barn and through his field jumping in hay bails 'falling on them'. Apparently, Joseph had given them wine while he was drunk himself. The issue caused quite a stir, it seemed that this occurrence contributed to the saints seeing alcohol with great repugnance. Brigham Young, even as he was a drinker of whisky himself (but it seemed he handled his liquor and he used it to wind down in his own personal time) was personally embarrassed to reference Joseph Smith's drinking habits to provide wisdom to the saints on its use.
It is ironic that the Lord’s “law of health” actually endangered Saints.
Nemo, I’m curious how it was growing up in a culture that highly valued tea when your religion forbade it. It might be hard to answer in a comment, but I often wonder about LDS people in the UK and tea.
Great question, it wasn't easy! The stereotype is pretty accurate, but I saw it as a lot of missionary opportunities! Gets awkward fast though when you need to take part in the ritual drinks run in the office and you don't know how to make it...
@@NEMOTHEMORMON thank you for the response! I know some cultures have exceptions to the WoW if it’s too big a thing to abstain. If you’re willing to share, do you drink tea now, and if so, how was it to finally be able to participate with your friends and coworkers? :)
I don't drink it, so I couldn't tell you!
Oh wow great video! I’m sure that drinking coffee or tea isn’t going to impair my ability to receive spiritual guidance. Drugs I can understand! Their ending remark makes no sense whatsoever. Very happy Ex-Mormon here BTW! 👏🤩
You asked what we would like to see you make a video of next and I have a suggestion. I would love to see what your thoughts would be on the banned Mormon cartoon reaction video from the “saints unscripted” TH-cam channel. If you had time I think it could be really interesting! Thanks 🙏☺️ I’ll post a link t ok the cartoon and also a link to the reaction video to the cartoon.
th-cam.com/video/n3BqLZ8UoZk/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/psZr4eSBlbw/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for sharing, I’ll take a look!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON thank you!
Why do you want to be the devil's advocate? Be the Lord's advocate.
How are prisoners in the mid 1800s able to "order wine" while incarcerated?
This seems unlikely for the "average prisoner".
Colossians 2
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence
When you going to do a secret insider view of a temple ceremony?
He did
How many Utah moms get their recreational drugs through prescriptions from their doctors? What a workaround!
Ole Brigham drank all the time
Soooo... Does this mean I can be stoned off my ass on marijuana or opium and go to the Temple? (As I have a prescription from a doctor)
So,Nemo! Do you keep the Word of Wisdom or not? Just curious!
I have one I would like for you to investigate. I found this the other day and it is ugly. I hope you can prove or disprove it for me. I just want the truth and I can handle whatever the truth is. Thanks. The True Story of Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley here on youtube.
To be fair smoking causes lung cancer, most coffee has mold in it and as far as alcohol consumption used as a barrier for getting into the temple during prohibition , we believe in obeying the laws of the country in which you live in. If you are doing something that is against the law should you be worthy of go to the temple?
These are all human rules...but GOD IS LAW
The "teachings" of most religions are based on their OWN practices. NOT the word of God.
MARK 7
18 “Don’t you understand either?” he asked. “Can’t you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you? 19 Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.)
20 And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. 21 For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness.
23 All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.”
I like that you brought this scripture up it’s interesting but also in contrast to what God told Moses and the Israelites . They could eat fish but not shell fish , they could eat cow but not dog or pig, they could eat birds but not vultures. Also , in Jesus’s day they didn’t have an abundance of foods with sugar and salt. They didn’t have processed foods, fake food, chemicals , food coloring, food sprayed with Roundup or GMO foods. You need to be a little careful. Maybe what Jesus was saying was a little more metaphorical.
@@roxanejordan4114 Why do ppl compare OT with the NT??...
Dont ppl understand Christ came and died to bring a NEW LAW
B/c the Israelites were not sticking to the old laws!
everything God has created is blessed.
GMO, Processed food etc,...is NOT GOD created - its ALTERED - MAN MADE
This is why its imperative to have the holy spirit.
THAT is your guide in ALL things - and into eternal life :)
I heard that coffee and tea were gotten rid of because the men were so upset about the removal of drinks and tobacco they wanted the women to give up something. True or not true?
Nice work again. They are trying to re-frame history to make the WoW seem prophetic.
Thanks! Indeed, although I'm not sure how making the temperance movement common knowledge helps them with that aim?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Agreed, everything they are doing is a response to the Internet. The juxtaposition of the temperance timeline to the WoW timeline deflates their prophetic claims, and they know this is taking place. So to inoculate members, they bring it up themselves and then tie in something to make it seem prophetic again. That way, when the member sees the information, they can still have a reason to believe. Inoculation, is all about getting just enough of the truth mixed into the narrative that when the whole truth is presented, it can be summarily dismissed by a faithful member. Considering all the money and time they consume, this is flat out fraud. But at least here in the good ole US of A, religions are untouchable, they can do whatever the hell they want and get away with it.
And yet, Joeseph partook of alcohol and loved to smoke a big fat cigar.
With a cholera outbreak or a bot from bad water anyone could truly understand the reason for over stacking a shopping trolley with toilet paper.
Fast forward to 2020.. and covid???.
Just a quick question! How is tobacco used to treat cattle? Maybe it was , but on the surface it sounds ridiculous!
I give you a D+. You failed to talk about the I'll effects of alcohol and instead seemed to try to articulate that the cholera outbreak a year after the word of wisdom was given was because of the revelation itself while later on criticizing the church leaders for drinking wine. You also failed to point out the actual I'll effects of alcohol that are commonly known to our society as a whole.
Hi fella,
I'm very surprised at practically every one of your points raised. I'd have hoped you would have put a little more into the topics raised to give you a better understanding.
Ok we're all entitled to our own view but when you go out to the public to express that and appear to reduce the value of something please go into it first.
Cheers.
Humm did Jesus eat lobster? Shark? Yes or no? Why yes why no?
You didn't "fact-check" a single thing. All you did was add context--context that didn't contradict anything in the video. Also, can you please point me to a single apologist who claimed Joseph was illiterate?
According to LDS apologists, Joseph Smith received a revelation about the word of wisdom but it wasn't fully implemented yet because Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith amd John Taylor were intoxicated the night before Joseph Smith and his brother were killed.
So the question is, what's the use of that revelation then?
Do you have a source on that, I’d love to read it!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON my source is FAIR Mormon website. The title is Word Of Wisdom.
Brilliant, I’ll have a look, thanks!!!
at vannkvaliteten før var så dårlig at øl og vin var bedre, har nyere forskning vist ikke er helt tilfellet...en må av og til faktasjekke faktasjekken
Your link between the cholera outbreak and the word if wisdom is shaky. Although it could have been a contributing factor there's no way of proving your claim. Correlation isn't causation, even if the correlation is compelling.
Thanks for the feedback, from what I remember I definitely was pointing out the irony of the situation more then I was ascribing a causal link. But I will make sure to be more clear in future, thanks!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON you don't have to apologize for anything
Mark 7
Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’[d]
8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”
Most Mormons outside the USA drink tea. Especially here in Europe.
You are wrong, Very few "mormons" in Europe drink tea. I think that happens in Latin America
@@giuliom3564 At least here in Germany most mormons drink tea.
@@jeff-8511 It depends on what you mean for "tea". There are several beverages that sometimes are called "tea" but they're not exactly that. Anyway I guess overall the Church membership in Germany is very strong, specially for leadership.
I know for sure in Latin America members are really more "free" and elastic in many issues.
@@giuliom3564 you are right. they drink herbal tea. They don’t drink all kinds of teas like black tea.
hey nobody the Mormon your choking on Nats and don't seem to have a problem twisting things to your narrative. But I suspect your just preaching to all the other fault finders aren't you.
If something is not written in the word of god, the bible...it is NOT LAW. If ppl actually read the bible - the BOM contradicts what the bible says!
so are u followingt he word of god?...
or the words of MAN, J Smith??..
THIS - U WILL BE JUDGED BY HARSHLY
8:11 Joseph was not perfect. He was locked up for his religion for pete's sake. Of course he made mistakes.
He was arrested for trying to scam people.... got off
He was charged for trying to defraud people with a fake bank... had to pay a fine
Was charged after attacking and destroying a printing press that was about to publish an article that unveiled his polygamy.
He was more then not perfect. He was a fraudster.
@@blusheep2 He was not perfect. He did not destroy a printing press. The city council voted on it as it was not protected at the time. 14th amendment was not passed. He was murdered for his belief
@@jonathangatto I haven't investigated how Joseph died. I have only heard bits and pieces such as Joseph being in possession of a gun. But he may have been murdered. He had been tarred and feathered at one point, so someone killing him isn't a giant leap. Not to mention its neither here nor there. It doesn't confirm or deny his religious claims.
He did destroy the printing press. The 14th amendment isn't what upset the government. It was the first amendment. Joseph was recognized as a public figure. I don't know if he was mayor or something else, so when a public figure destroys a press, it is a violation of the 1st amendment, and it doesn't change the fact that the reason he went after the press was because someone was going to unveil what he was doing in secret and denying in public. City councils don't get to demolish or shut down the press.
The scripture says that we will know false teachers and prophets by their fruit. Joseph Smith really struggles in that regard. Those that support him have to do a lot of spin to make him sound like just an everyday imperfect man.
Do you mind answering a question that is off topic. I'm trying to understand how a Mormon truly feels about the doctrine of exaltation to god. I know all about the doctrine. I've read the King Follett discourse about a week ago. I think I have a grasp of it, but when I've discussed this with Mormons I get the impression that they aren't real comfortable with the idea though they accept it intellectually.
I've asked some if they would be willing to say in confidence (assuming they do all the right things), "I will be a God. I will be like the Most High!" In spite, of their outward acceptance of the doctrine, no Mormon has ever typed those words. They have all avoided doing so. This is strange to me although I think I understand it. Its like the trinity doctrine in Christianity. Its not an easy doctrine and no one in the church wants to call a man, a god, unless he is. So there can be a hesitancy to declare it loudly.
So, are you willing to say this line or does it make you uncomfortable?
@@blusheep2 Using inflammatory language, they voiced their discontent with the practice of plural marriage, Joseph Smith’s teachings on the nature of God from his recent King Follett sermon, and his mixing of religious and civic authority in Nauvoo.
On Saturday, June 8, and the following Monday, June 10, the Nauvoo City Council convened to determine a course of action. There were multiple reasons the council felt the need to act. Most significantly, the Saints had experienced violence in Missouri and Ohio and, with tension mounting in Illinois, the council members were concerned about the Expositor’s potential to incite further violence against both the Saints and the owners of the press. Additionally, in the honor culture of 19th-century America, men were expected to respond to public attacks on their character, a social norm that made it difficult to let offenses pass.
With the sanction of the city council, Joseph Smith ordered a marshal, with the assistance of the Nauvoo Legion, to destroy the printing press. On Monday evening, June 10, the marshal and his posse of approximately 100 men removed the press, scattered the type, and burned the remaining copies of the newspaper.
The Nauvoo City Council had reason to believe their actions were legal. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which prohibits government interference with the press, applied only to the federal government, not state and local governments, until after the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868.
@@jonathangatto Yeah, perfect. You make my point for me.
1. The Nauvoo City Council: Joseph Smith served as mayor of this council that voted to end the printing press.
2. Destroyed the printing press: Joseph Smith used his own "Nauvoo Legion" to destroy it. 100 Mormon men did the work.
3. Honor culture: I think, applied to this scenario, this is a lie but even if its not, it doesn't give the Mayor of a town or anyone else the right to destroy personal property because its critical of their person or religion.
4. 14th Amendment: Its true that the 14th amendment wasn't enacted yet but the state of Illinois had from its founding in 1787, protections for free speech and the press. So this is, at best, misleading.
How about that question I asked you? If your not going to answer it, can you tell me why you won't? Again, it seems like Mormons are nervous about making such claims though its their doctrine and the focus of their ordinances. Help me understand, so I can treat you fairly.
Don’t drink coffee or tea what nonsense