In these kinds of conversations there is a strong sense that women (specifically black) are being asked to choose between their having a successful career and getting married. Oprah famously said “you can have it all, just not all at the same time”
Such a Brilliant Topic and well addressed. How Do we Prepare Men is probably off target, the Question should be "when do we prepare men? Men you meet today are the results of a home that neglected so many critical values when they (men) were young that when they are now older they can not get rid of the habits and vantage points of who women are and sadly, "what" women are in their lives. Funny enough boys are closer to their Mothers when they are young, yet they generally turn out to mistreat women when older, yet they understand love from a female(mother) and its importance eternally. So without blaming women, I strongly recommend that women teach these young boys how to relate to an Empowered Women, i.e. starting with the Most Empowered Woman they know i,e, .... THEIR MOM . Older Men have a bigger role in preparing men by Modelling a Role that represents a man ready to submit when need be and Lead when Need arises. Any behaviour any man has, is learnt from observation and absolute scrutiny of another Man., and yes, the negative will be absorbed quicker and easier that the positive, hence intention to model a "great man" is necessary by treating women in their lives well including in submission too. Our Generation currently is an "instant" Generation and that is why nothing that is coated with patience is an option, i.e Love, Finances, Success, Wholesomeness etc. Everything should be "instant" with this generation and hence most will marry a Rich man who will turn poor versus marrying a consistent man who will become rich! Roles have messed us Up and they have taken away what ultimately Life is about. This is why true happiness will be found in a poor household 100 fold that the patches of it in a rich house!
I've been blown away, devastated even at how 'educated' men are so intimidated by educated empowered outspoken women. In my experience it's been the 'uneducated' man who has been vulnerable enough to say 'baby I don't know, I never thought of it like that, please teach me' And I never would have given that 'type' of guy a chance. Never been happier two years in.
No. No man is intimidated by a woman's education or anything. I don't know were women got that thinking from. It's all about what you want, the character of the person and how you relate to each other. Not this "intimidated" nonsense. If your character is loose and you don't listen, a man will walk away.
Wow! Kudos to the guy who spoke about him being okay with a partner with insecurities. I think it’s very hypocritical of us women to expect men to be without any insecurities while we also have insecurities. “ Its okay to have insecurities but control them.” That’s a profound yet realistic statement.👏🏾👏🏾
Yes women are climbing the corporate ladder getting their education and starting small side hustle , while we men are taking the entrepreneurial route in numbers looking for that one big breakthrough. Thank you for having this conversation
In my culture, marriage isn't a competition to determine who possesses greater power, wealth, or any other perceived superiority. The very essence of sharing a life signifies a union, where individual strengths coalesce into a collective whole. Our vulnerabilities become shared burdens, just as our triumphs become collective victories. However, discord arises when one seeks to weaponize their individual strengths to "win" within the relationship. This desire to outshine or overpower becomes the breeding ground for conflict. The issue lies not in the possession of qualifications, but in the demeanor displayed towards one's partner due to those achievements. Imagine, if you will, a highly accomplished and ambitious man. His very driven nature might be misconstrued as arrogance by some women. The same principle applies to women. Ultimately, the true source of disharmony isn't qualifications, wealth, or power. It's the personality we cultivate that determines our success in nurturing healthy relationships. Remember, it's not about who achieves more; it's about fostering an environment where individual brilliance enriches the partnership, not undermines
18:40 and this is the problem toxic masculinity is called out for not willing to date women at their level , but no one calls out the toxic femininity and classism when women do not want to date men who have less resources
What a beautiful and necessary conversation Ursula! I just wish your they were a bit longer because you topics are so layered! I love every moment of your interviews! 👌🏽
14:02 a person who chooses to be a stay at home parent will likely have all their needs met by the other partner and will not be a burden of the government. People who can afford to leave the labour market should do so to open up space for others
Anyone who uses academic or financial success to spearhead their relationship is bound to fail. Male or female. I would argue that instead of treating each other as an accountant or masters student in our relationships, let's treat each other as valuable humans who both have good to offer each and want to build. Perhaps then will change the entire vision or the relationship. 😊😊😊
That may not not change much. It is safer for one to use such successes as a yardstick because there is some sort of awareness and security in it. A broke and ambitious man can still have a patriarchal mindset. Infact they will hope the women do not succeed more than them.
Oooh this!!!!! 🔥You nailed it. It's like saying a man who's not within a certain income bracket can't be my partner/leader. Yes he has to earn & make a living, but income bracket is not a direct indicator of leadership quality & skills. There are monied people who are bad & poor leaders. There are good leaders who aren't as privileged yet. We have to arrive at a point were we analyze these realities with sober minds & wisdom.
Loved this conversation.. I'd just like to add onto the point made about men not being able to communicate. I don't feel like that's a sufficient enough excuse.. I feel like men should be more intentional, myself includes lol, about learning how to communicate better and more importantly, communicate exactly how they feel. But I think also, even in that, the hope is that your partner is able to process that communication positively. The unfortunate thing about being completely and clearly honest is that, the person receiving your truth may not necessarily take it and process it in an outcome that's favorable to you the person telling your truth and you need to be able to also prepare yourself for the outcome to go either way.
Appreciate how you graciously addressed Thabo’s “spanner”. My take is women are not too empowered, they’ve a higher likelihood of being responsible as they’re held more accountable because of a gender inequality that doesn’t accommodate their being reckless. Also this episode is yet another example of many where women take the initiative also available to just as capable men i.e manosphere podcasts (RIP Kevin Samuels), to resolve the impasse amicably without seeking to protect their higher social ranking despite their living a reality that betrays their patriarchal entitlements.
I loved this topic because only now I just got into a relationship with a lady who's doing super well for herself and am trying find myself in this kind relationship.
We need to start it at the root, up. We need to accept that culture, religion and traditions can evolve. Men can not be empowered if they are hearing they are the head, or that ke selepe se re se hadimishanang. Our conversations need to be different, demyth that men are (sole) providers.
Great conversation and great points put across by both gender. One little issue that I have is women using feminism like a switch, where you on or off when it suits or benefits them. You want equal yet same breath you want to be spoiled like in traditional way. Currently men cant switch between Modern and Traditional.
Sometimes I think it's us women caught up in the titles and economic/financial status. I think some men really don't have issues as long as expectations are communicated. But we tend to conclude their issues stem from our financial standing. I think as women sometimes we don't understand the concept of partnership because society has rooted the identity of men in financial provision. But it should be easier to co-exist when money isn't an issue
The authenticity of this podcast is on par. How the dialogue is, is so admirable. The subject matter is tackled so well without having any form of defensiveness among gender. I hope such can really be discussed openly at all times. Love this channel bethuna like I'm hooked. I love Thabo and his articulation, what we need to do now is to transition from the element of "apartheid" when it comes to men's mental state, yes it was an impact but when are we creating a safe space where they transform themselves? We have resources that can support men, but if they are not open to them, then we will go in circles. Nonetheless, relationships are beautiful when there's no patriarchal systems present, but we can empathically communicate these things.
The only way that the boy child can be empowered is to be a determined, goal getter, and achiever. So that there is a balance, where the man will not be left behind- in career, life objectives, careers etc So men have to up their came n look at women more as partner like a business partner rather than a women who belongs in the kitchen- so to speak.
Absolutely love the conversation 🤩. I’ve been a fan of you & Thabo since High School days😃. Ursula, I’m super proud of you. Continue to empower men & woman.
I loved everything about this topic and what was said, from both perspectives. You guys just gained a new subscriber! Ps. I saw the short clip on tik tok and it lead me here💕
I love and enjoyed this discussion 🤍 I think men are not willing to understand the other side and are not teachable. I also believe that it’s not necessarily about the empowered woman so much, I’ve never earned more than my previous partners and yet I’ve had to shrink until I couldn’t… Recently my 20 year old son and I have been having the communication struggle until a friend pointed out that he won’t listen to me because I’m a woman. Where he got that idea is still a mystery. There is definitely an unwillingness to work on self and I wish this topic can be re visited so that we can get to possible solutions and healthy compromises. Thanks to you and your team ✨
This was so interesting. The points of view were very different. But now that Thabo has brought that to light I have realized, in as much as men are not prepared to be with a woman who is more successful; women are not prepared to be with men who are less successful than then. We were given opportunity to level up.. but the man must have leveled up more than you. Which goes back to having to shrink yourself as a successful woman because after a certain level of success very few people men and women would be more than you. Oprah is a good example but very few women would be comfortable with that. So if you will always want a man who is/has more than you, they sky must be your limit because the stars is the only place that man must be in order for them to be more than you. Joh we all might be toxic 🤣
Related so much to this! It’s short sighted to say the man must be better because in essence, you limit yourself and your own potential by saying that. Yoh.
@@ursulamariani8245 It is, just by talking about it and saying that your man must make more and achieve more. Wait until you watch yourself shrink yourself for a man and waych how it affects you in long term. Theres a beautiful lady that managed to achieve and not shrink herself and she's living her best life, I believe she was a vice councilor at UCT( sorry forgot her name and not sure if I have her role correctly).
Thank God for Given. As someone who is in an intimate relationship and has insecurities, I am so glad to finally be with a man that can be vulnerable and has insecurities that he has under control. In our relationship we have never fought about money because we are in and out people...we care more about being happy inside then on the outside last. Regarding a house husband, totally agree with Given, the economy does not allow for this. Also we need to watch the decisions we make based on temporary situations or based on what we see on the internet.
Empowerment doesn't mean you abandon your trading roles in marriage. Nomater how empowered one is, roles are a formular that has worked over the years.
i tend to find myself shrinking myself and being aware not to overly come across as smart or 'displaying' my achievements in a relationship, to the point where il act like i dont know of a certain topic...
Please please please bring Mr Gabanakgosi back on and maybe with another gentleman. I believe there’s so much more that we can discuss that would school a lot of us. It felt like 2 minutes. Great conversation👊🏾👍🏾
I think the bigger issue that isn't being addressed in society right now... Is the fact that most Black Men come from Single Parent households, raised solely by Single Mothers. Raising the question, if these men women complain about these days are raised entirely by women, why then do they have this sort of attitude towards the women in their lives? Is the person raising the child to blame for the type of (Men) we have in society currently?
You've raised an important question, and while there's not one single factor that can explain abuse, the patriarchal attitudes and behaviors that can make it difficult for men to accept empowered women certainly play a significant role. When men feel threatened by empowered women, they may react in ways that are abusive or oppressive. This can include everything from subtle microaggressions and sexist comments to more extreme forms of abuse like physical violence or sexual assault. Ultimately, we need to change how we socialize boys and teach them to view women as equals, not subordinates.
Absolutely! Loved the show and the topic-I'm officially a fan! Here's my take: investing in communication, mindset, and shaping our reality together is key. Empowering men means boosting their emotional intelligence and self-confidence. Partners should support each other's weaknesses. Remember, every couple is a team, charting their own path. Let's avoid judging our relationships by others' standards and live authentically. We can't truly know what happens behind closed doors in others' lives. A truly empowered woman is emotionally intelligent and her communication should give life not to just prove a point. :)
I feel that the podcast was more conversational or Opinion based more than answering the actual topic. With the previous videos you could get answers on the topic discussed.
I have beeeen saying this for years society has not adapted to the changing role of women and yet so so much more is expected from us, than our parents generation.
Big ups to you girl... Wish I had made that decision earlier.... I burnt.. From compliance and it all got thrown back on my face:it's your fault Lemo everything is your fault. Yooo the depression that went with that is suicidal. You literally need someone out of yourself more like a higher power to survive this toxicity. Great show.
This "empowerment" thing confuses... I sometimes feel there is a difference between an "Empowered Woman" and a "Working Woman"... [For me] An "Empowered Woman" is a woman who knows her value and recognizes her power, while a "Working Woman" is basically what we often call/refer to as "Career Woman"... [For example] Maybe, let's say we didn't have to work because all that we "need and want" we've got already, how will an "Empowered Woman" be like?... ❤
But why must we prepare boys. Why can't we empower both to have the same opportunity say girls. Equality of opportunities is very powerful than equality outcome.
In my opinion, I believe both men and women to strive to be successful in whatever they believe is success for them, and to choose who they want to be with. Everyone has their own preferences, whether is realistic or not, of who they want to be with and if both parties involved are fine with it than its okay. For example, I know someone, a beautiful independent lady who is very successful financially and in her career, and I wondered why she settled for someone who is just making enough to go by whereby I know she can definitely get someone in her "status" rank. And when I asked her, it turned out that she prefers it that way for various reason of her own. Of which both of them are happy with that.
The boy child conversation needs to discussed in depth. We need to be cognisant of the male psyche from the migrant labour times to the empowered woman era. Then ask how we bring the boy child to man along. It’s a long journey we need to embark on as a nation, mothers raising sons, etc.
Great topic, but I feel like the host and co-host swallowed the guest and his opinions. We barely heard what Thabo had to say and his thought process, etc. There is a reason, I'm sure, that they invited him as a guest and didn't have the conversation without a guest.
Okay, now at the end of the episode, I think men just need to be taught that it’s not lazy of your wife to get a helper who will do the domestic chores while also helping you to balance the finances, I loved the point about the economy being bad atm that’s so true so being a house husband I’m not sure how that will work Yah, I think men need to be taught how to live with empowered women but also at some point I think women are too empowered and they are not taught how to still respect their husband in situations like this. So education all around is needed. And I think we can only find answers in Christ 😊
I don't think man should be prepared for empowered women, instead man should also be empowered because at the end of the day as women we want to end up with more successful, confident supportive man .......but my question is who is fit enough to empower man and be taken serious by them cause i doubt most men will accept empowerment that easly
When I look around, it seems like the competition amongst men themselves harms men mentally more than anything. It seems like men marry women to get status amongst others men, buy nice cars to praised by other men, date multiple women to get praise from other men. Men don’t have an issue with women earning more than them; men have an issue with other men knowing that it’s the women that makes more money in a relationship. Men don’t want to be embarrassed by a women in front of other men. Any thoughts on this? Im curious to know what conversation are being had amongst men themselves about this. Is it the same traditional conversations or ?
In a nut shell, marriage is a partnership and only can work on the principle of interdependency and nothing alse. And interdependency is a choice that can only be made by Independent people.
I have some questions (still haven’t finished the episode 😅) Does this mean that men shouldn’t strive to be more successful than their lady? Like they now have to do what they do and be what they be and then find a woman and be happy that the woman is who they are and they move on with life? Or is it okay if the man still wants to strive to be better or well of than the woman so that if push ever turns to shove then he can pick up the slack? Are we also saying as a society that in relationships women will stop disrespecting men because the men has less than the woman? Or are just purely talking about the types of dudes that throw tantrums because the lady is doing what she wants to do and that’s bringing her success?
The greatest obstacle the nuclear family faces in Morden relationships under equality is hypergamy. Over archiving men historicaly knew they had to marry down Socioeconomically. With equal opportunity,it's inevitable that women rise to the top too. But the men of that class still have an option to pick traditionally. Leaving their counterparts stuck. Because Morden women still require man to produce as much as them. And are repulsed by the idea of "dating down"
Empowerment can’t be limited to commercial empowerment. The yester man ( traditional) is likely married - these are our parents. The present man, where he expects his woman to behave like his mother, it’s purely because we learn from the family system, all our values. The present woman expects her man to mind all the things the yester-man did, and more. Disagreements on house chores ignore the high prevalence of house help nowadays. The fundamental mental issue is that the present day man and woman are not groomed for marriage. There’s a lot of focus on the glitz in marriage yeet marriages are sustained in the not so rosey level. Empowered women want men who cook and they want to tell their friends about it. Cute as it might be, that’s not how successful marriages are made.
Hi there, i love your show. I believe in disclosure my finances and academics. Our women are empowered and a true gentlemen wont try to jeoperdise the future of her lady. I was turned down but honestly due to a poor finances and still working on my academics. Being a firm believer in academics and great finance, i honoured her decision and respect her a lot. Remember i am working on myself to be better.
I truly don't comment much on TH-cam videos, but when I saw the clip on TikTok I had to come here. According to the StatSA: Statistical Release on marriages and divorces 2020 published March 2022 not only is your guest wrong, he is extremely, painfully wrong. In summary not only do black couples in South Africa have the lowest rates of divorce of the other race groups studied (black, white, Indian and coloured), they are quite literally 5 times less likely to divorce than their white counterparts. Black women are the least likely of all women in heterosexual marriage to initiate divorce. In the case of white, Indian and coloured heterosexual unions, women made up upwards of 56% of the initiators of divorce. Whereas black women were initiators of divorce 48% of the time. Additionally, the highest rate of divorce occurred in marriages of between 5-9 years, followed by those in marriages of 10 -14 years. And couples younger than 25, and older than 65 were the least likely to get divorced. So I would be incredibly generous in saying the basis of this conversation is extremely faulty.
Also anecdotally, I have yet to meet a Black mother that favours their daughters over their sons; I ask your guest to give an example of black boys being "pushed to the side" in literal terms. Rather what I have seen is the coddling of black boys: they are allowed to play whilst their sisters cook and clean. They are allowed to party when their sisters are told to study and close their legs. Thirdly, let me remind your guest that parliament is still majority male, though that gap is closing, and we have yet to have a female president. The patriarchy does in fact benefit men, including the uneducated, our former president is an excellent example here.
I should also mention that the gap between the genders regarding education is not solely a black thing, or a South African thing, it is an experience across the globe, for example in the US they cite a similar problem.
Good conversation as always, but your problem you keep on interrupting each other girls..... Please try to improve on that department. Otherwise your topics are very good.
Lol I have many thoughts around this. I think if you're going against logic it's like hitting your head against the wall. We all know the traditional backgrounds we come from and marriage in itself is a traditional institution. So already you're dealing with a traditional entity with traditional values but you want to be in it on your own terms. My question is why do you want to get into such an institution knowing very well you're not traditional in your outlook? The expectations that men have are built-in the marriage institution itself. What I think has not happened is an open conversation about this entity and whether we still want to use it as a vehicle to build families. And there has to be an agreement as to what the institution is and what it is not. As a man I have no problem with women empowerment but let's iron out the fine print. What are the terms of the agreement if I am to marry you. Are we following traditional processes such as lobola and so on? I am saying these things are going wrong from inception. We are taking different elements from everywhere and applying them to our relationships and we're doing is creating Frankenstein relationships. A little bit of tradition here, little bit of church here, little of TV romance there, etc. Like I'm saying, it ends up being a Frankenstein monster that can't function, hence the impasse you talk about. Personally, and with my experience dating modern women, I don't see myself getting married. Let's iron out the details of traditions and expectations.
yours is a conversation people in general are not ready to have... there are few happier about iLobola than the lady in question - oblivious to the fact that she is implicitly participating in one of the strongholds of 'patriarchy'..... And that's just one of a plethora of examples of the dischord of trying to marry innate tendencies (nature), tradition and modern ideology
I came back here from twitter😶🌫 and I'm so worried about having to shrink myself to be in a relationship. Money and all it's dynamics can be so empowering for women but can be so emasculating for men🤔 re tla tshabela kae
With all due respect..it has always been a norm to uplift the girl more than the boy,it started so atomic,now its a whole explosion.notice whenever a young boy is persueing a girl and her mom shows up ..the moms reprimand is gonna be “yeka lomfana uzok mosha” as if the boy doesn’t have dreams
When you reach 40-45 that's when you realize how simple is love and how important is having a normal marriage. That's when you realize the consequences of materializing relationship.
It's not fair that women won't take in a house husband, and he's being referred to as irresponsible, whilst housewives aren't called irresponsible. No empowered woman wants to take in the financial burden of a man , but a man is expected to. But yeah we are men we can't complain 😅just figure out a plan🙌🏿
I disagree with the whole notion of preparing a young black man for an empowered woman why do we want to prepare a man for a woman what is just happening is in the process of empowering the woman we have forgoten to empower the young black man as well we have to be the most equal society ever in history i mean the woman has access to every place a man has access to and as you have rightfully said more women than man are in varsitu more women than man are owning properties when are we gonna start empowering both genders equally where formally the man was actually prepared and groomed for success and to be a provider and the woman was left behind nowadays the man is left to find their own way around life and obviously the example they have is our fathers who were patriachal and obviously that man will never know how to deal with an empowered woman the answer actually lies in actual equality where both parties are actually equal they will be able to deal with each other its time up for afirmative action as it is creating the same mischief it sort to adress
You know, the world is an exhausting place , you don’t want to come home to more exhaustion. I am not out to offend anyone.... I’m telling the truth. Men want peace and quiet. The truth will be completely rejected, I’m sure.
I can’t help but I notice that the ghost lady is here in the capital conversation is taking on a toxic masculine expression & projecting when she insists that men don’t need to be capacitated on the newly empowered woman as anywhere where there’s a shift socially. There will always be challenges shifting in bias/dominant truth for each and everyone & that needs room as to the masculine provides space for that unless the famine wants chaos…kids are part of this space & can’t be caught up in male⚖️female power struggles…🤔nourishment 4🧠
This gentleman (Thabo) seem to be cornered by these two ladies, he's trying too hard to be careful in what he's saying not to say rub them the wrong way in him being radically honest and realistic No man who has a full testosterone above his oestrogen will be will to accommodate the idea of being taken care by his partner A man by nature, protects and supports( this may be debatable) his family, and a lady with intentions of having a family functions way better as a home maker Hence we see most families that have one parent being a man tend to chaotic and tends, and families headed by women are always a success in many cases
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In these kinds of conversations there is a strong sense that women (specifically black) are being asked to choose between their having a successful career and getting married. Oprah famously said “you can have it all, just not all at the same time”
Such a Brilliant Topic and well addressed.
How Do we Prepare Men is probably off target, the Question should be "when do we prepare men?
Men you meet today are the results of a home that neglected so many critical values when they (men) were young that when they are now older they can not get rid of the habits and vantage points of who women are and sadly, "what" women are in their lives.
Funny enough boys are closer to their Mothers when they are young, yet they generally turn out to mistreat women when older, yet they understand love from a female(mother) and its importance eternally. So without blaming women, I strongly recommend that women teach these young boys how to relate to an Empowered Women, i.e. starting with the Most Empowered Woman they know i,e, .... THEIR MOM .
Older Men have a bigger role in preparing men by Modelling a Role that represents a man ready to submit when need be and Lead when Need arises. Any behaviour any man has, is learnt from observation and absolute scrutiny of another Man., and yes, the negative will be absorbed quicker and easier that the positive, hence intention to model a "great man" is necessary by treating women in their lives well including in submission too.
Our Generation currently is an "instant" Generation and that is why nothing that is coated with patience is an option, i.e Love, Finances, Success, Wholesomeness etc.
Everything should be "instant" with this generation and hence most will marry a Rich man who will turn poor versus marrying a consistent man who will become rich!
Roles have messed us Up and they have taken away what ultimately Life is about. This is why true happiness will be found in a poor household 100 fold that the patches of it in a rich house!
fully concur👏
Well put👏🏾
I've been blown away, devastated even at how 'educated' men are so intimidated by educated empowered outspoken women. In my experience it's been the 'uneducated' man who has been vulnerable enough to say 'baby I don't know, I never thought of it like that, please teach me' And I never would have given that 'type' of guy a chance. Never been happier two years in.
Very true
No. No man is intimidated by a woman's education or anything. I don't know were women got that thinking from. It's all about what you want, the character of the person and how you relate to each other. Not this "intimidated" nonsense. If your character is loose and you don't listen, a man will walk away.
@@ColGaddafileave these people, let them think the way the see fit
Wow! Kudos to the guy who spoke about him being okay with a partner with insecurities. I think it’s very hypocritical of us women to expect men to be without any insecurities while we also have insecurities. “ Its okay to have insecurities but control them.” That’s a profound yet realistic statement.👏🏾👏🏾
Yes women are climbing the corporate ladder getting their education and starting small side hustle , while we men are taking the entrepreneurial route in numbers looking for that one big breakthrough.
Thank you for having this conversation
In my culture, marriage isn't a competition to determine who possesses greater power, wealth, or any other perceived superiority. The very essence of sharing a life signifies a union, where individual strengths coalesce into a collective whole. Our vulnerabilities become shared burdens, just as our triumphs become collective victories.
However, discord arises when one seeks to weaponize their individual strengths to "win" within the relationship. This desire to outshine or overpower becomes the breeding ground for conflict. The issue lies not in the possession of qualifications, but in the demeanor displayed towards one's partner due to those achievements.
Imagine, if you will, a highly accomplished and ambitious man. His very driven nature might be misconstrued as arrogance by some women. The same principle applies to women. Ultimately, the true source of disharmony isn't qualifications, wealth, or power. It's the personality we cultivate that determines our success in nurturing healthy relationships.
Remember, it's not about who achieves more; it's about fostering an environment where individual brilliance enriches the partnership, not undermines
18:40 and this is the problem toxic masculinity is called out for not willing to date women at their level , but no one calls out the toxic femininity and classism when women do not want to date men who have less resources
How come I only see this beautiful channel now mara?? Beautiful channel. Beautiful topics.
Welcome 🤗
I felt it when you said .." *I don't wanna go through that* ....
What a beautiful and necessary conversation Ursula!
I just wish your they were a bit longer because you topics are so layered! I love every moment of your interviews! 👌🏽
14:02 a person who chooses to be a stay at home parent will likely have all their needs met by the other partner and will not be a burden of the government. People who can afford to leave the labour market should do so to open up space for others
Anyone who uses academic or financial success to spearhead their relationship is bound to fail. Male or female.
I would argue that instead of treating each other as an accountant or masters student in our relationships, let's treat each other as valuable humans who both have good to offer each and want to build.
Perhaps then will change the entire vision or the relationship. 😊😊😊
That may not not change much. It is safer for one to use such successes as a yardstick because there is some sort of awareness and security in it.
A broke and ambitious man can still have a patriarchal mindset. Infact they will hope the women do not succeed more than them.
Oooh this!!!!! 🔥You nailed it. It's like saying a man who's not within a certain income bracket can't be my partner/leader. Yes he has to earn & make a living, but income bracket is not a direct indicator of leadership quality & skills. There are monied people who are bad & poor leaders. There are good leaders who aren't as privileged yet. We have to arrive at a point were we analyze these realities with sober minds & wisdom.
Loved this conversation..
I'd just like to add onto the point made about men not being able to communicate. I don't feel like that's a sufficient enough excuse.. I feel like men should be more intentional, myself includes lol, about learning how to communicate better and more importantly, communicate exactly how they feel. But I think also, even in that, the hope is that your partner is able to process that communication positively. The unfortunate thing about being completely and clearly honest is that, the person receiving your truth may not necessarily take it and process it in an outcome that's favorable to you the person telling your truth and you need to be able to also prepare yourself for the outcome to go either way.
Appreciate how you graciously addressed Thabo’s “spanner”. My take is women are not too empowered, they’ve a higher likelihood of being responsible as they’re held more accountable because of a gender inequality that doesn’t accommodate their being reckless. Also this episode is yet another example of many where women take the initiative also available to just as capable men i.e manosphere podcasts (RIP Kevin Samuels), to resolve the impasse amicably without seeking to protect their higher social ranking despite their living a reality that betrays their patriarchal entitlements.
30 minutes is not enough😭😭😭🙌
I loved this topic because only now I just got into a relationship with a lady who's doing super well for herself and am trying find myself in this kind relationship.
We need to start it at the root, up. We need to accept that culture, religion and traditions can evolve. Men can not be empowered if they are hearing they are the head, or that ke selepe se re se hadimishanang. Our conversations need to be different, demyth that men are (sole) providers.
Great conversation and great points put across by both gender. One little issue that I have is women using feminism like a switch, where you on or off when it suits or benefits them. You want equal yet same breath you want to be spoiled like in traditional way. Currently men cant switch between Modern and Traditional.
My husband shared a link. Here I am. I enjoyed this episode. So many great points raised. I'm about to binge on your channel.
Sometimes I think it's us women caught up in the titles and economic/financial status. I think some men really don't have issues as long as expectations are communicated. But we tend to conclude their issues stem from our financial standing. I think as women sometimes we don't understand the concept of partnership because society has rooted the identity of men in financial provision. But it should be easier to co-exist when money isn't an issue
The authenticity of this podcast is on par. How the dialogue is, is so admirable. The subject matter is tackled so well without having any form of defensiveness among gender. I hope such can really be discussed openly at all times. Love this channel bethuna like I'm hooked. I love Thabo and his articulation, what we need to do now is to transition from the element of "apartheid" when it comes to men's mental state, yes it was an impact but when are we creating a safe space where they transform themselves? We have resources that can support men, but if they are not open to them, then we will go in circles. Nonetheless, relationships are beautiful when there's no patriarchal systems present, but we can empathically communicate these things.
The only way that the boy child can be empowered is to be a determined, goal getter, and achiever. So that there is a balance, where the man will not be left behind- in career, life objectives, careers etc
So men have to up their came n look at women more as partner like a business partner rather than a women who belongs in the kitchen- so to speak.
Ursula speaks so beautifully ❤ I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation
17:54 ,That’s a great question from Thabo .
Absolutely love the conversation 🤩. I’ve been a fan of you & Thabo since High School days😃. Ursula, I’m super proud of you. Continue to empower men & woman.
I have watched this video Atleast five times in the four months, Thabo insight is top tier! I hate that he wasn’t “introduced” kakuhle
I loved everything about this topic and what was said, from both perspectives.
You guys just gained a new subscriber!
Ps. I saw the short clip on tik tok and it lead me here💕
Great conversation, most needed in our society.
I love and enjoyed this discussion 🤍
I think men are not willing to understand the other side and are not teachable. I also believe that it’s not necessarily about the empowered woman so much, I’ve never earned more than my previous partners and yet I’ve had to shrink until I couldn’t…
Recently my 20 year old son and I have been having the communication struggle until a friend pointed out that he won’t listen to me because I’m a woman. Where he got that idea is still a mystery. There is definitely an unwillingness to work on self and I wish this topic can be re visited so that we can get to possible solutions and healthy compromises. Thanks to you and your team ✨
I keep listening to this podcast!! Really amazing
This was so interesting. The points of view were very different. But now that Thabo has brought that to light I have realized, in as much as men are not prepared to be with a woman who is more successful; women are not prepared to be with men who are less successful than then. We were given opportunity to level up.. but the man must have leveled up more than you. Which goes back to having to shrink yourself as a successful woman because after a certain level of success very few people men and women would be more than you. Oprah is a good example but very few women would be comfortable with that. So if you will always want a man who is/has more than you, they sky must be your limit because the stars is the only place that man must be in order for them to be more than you.
Joh we all might be toxic 🤣
Related so much to this! It’s short sighted to say the man must be better because in essence, you limit yourself and your own potential by saying that. Yoh.
Spot on, when is his level up enough?
@@ursulamariani8245 It is, just by talking about it and saying that your man must make more and achieve more. Wait until you watch yourself shrink yourself for a man and waych how it affects you in long term. Theres a beautiful lady that managed to achieve and not shrink herself and she's living her best life, I believe she was a vice councilor at UCT( sorry forgot her name and not sure if I have her role correctly).
@@MahasheS Prof.Mamokgethi Phakeng
Thank God for Given. As someone who is in an intimate relationship and has insecurities, I am so glad to finally be with a man that can be vulnerable and has insecurities that he has under control. In our relationship we have never fought about money because we are in and out people...we care more about being happy inside then on the outside last.
Regarding a house husband, totally agree with Given, the economy does not allow for this. Also we need to watch the decisions we make based on temporary situations or based on what we see on the internet.
Empowerment doesn't mean you abandon your trading roles in marriage. Nomater how empowered one is, roles are a formular that has worked over the years.
Preach
Beautifully spoken ❤
i tend to find myself shrinking myself and being aware not to overly come across as smart or 'displaying' my achievements in a relationship, to the point where il act like i dont know of a certain topic...
That's not healthy. Your man is supposed to be comfortable with your achievements and not challenged by it. He must take it positively.
I enjoyed the conversation, however it felt just over the surface. We need to go deeper.
Great episode 👏🏾. I'm really inspired by the content 👌🏾
Please please please bring Mr Gabanakgosi back on and maybe with another gentleman. I believe there’s so much more that we can discuss that would school a lot of us. It felt like 2 minutes. Great conversation👊🏾👍🏾
I think the bigger issue that isn't being addressed in society right now...
Is the fact that most Black Men come from Single Parent households, raised solely by Single Mothers. Raising the question, if these men women complain about these days are raised entirely by women, why then do they have this sort of attitude towards the women in their lives?
Is the person raising the child to blame for the type of (Men) we have in society currently?
This is the video that made me subscribe to this channel , this is a conversation that needed to happen 🔥🔥🔥
I m getting in love with this podcast
beautiful message
Whose here from tik tok😁
🙋🏾♀️😅
🤣🙋
Me!🤣
Me❤🙂
Meeeeee 😜
I loved and enjoyed this. I shared with my boyfriend and friend ❤️💯
The lady behind the camera is brilliant
*Pertinent* topic 👌🏾💫
This video was recommended to me and I'm very happy it was! I subbed immediately afterwards 😌
Welcome to the family- look forward to engaging with you ☺️
Hmmm interesting
Hi Urs I see you doing big things, keep that fire of superior logic burning. Truly inspiring 👌🏾
I like this girls energy 🥰🥰
You've raised an important question, and while there's not one single factor that can explain abuse, the patriarchal attitudes and behaviors that can make it difficult for men to accept empowered women certainly play a significant role.
When men feel threatened by empowered women, they may react in ways that are abusive or oppressive. This can include everything from subtle microaggressions and sexist comments to more extreme forms of abuse like physical violence or sexual assault.
Ultimately, we need to change how we socialize boys and teach them to view women as equals, not subordinates.
Absolutely! Loved the show and the topic-I'm officially a fan!
Here's my take: investing in communication, mindset, and shaping our reality together is key.
Empowering men means boosting their emotional intelligence and self-confidence.
Partners should support each other's weaknesses. Remember, every couple is a team, charting their own path. Let's avoid judging our relationships by others' standards and live authentically. We can't truly know what happens behind closed doors in others' lives.
A truly empowered woman is emotionally intelligent and her communication should give life not to just prove a point. :)
I feel that the podcast was more conversational or Opinion based more than answering the actual topic. With the previous videos you could get answers on the topic discussed.
What Given said 🙌🏾
I have beeeen saying this for years society has not adapted to the changing role of women and yet so so much more is expected from us, than our parents generation.
How are you perfect at this 😍😍😍??? Love loadssss from Rwanda, Kigali
I loved this. 🙏🏽
Big ups to you girl... Wish I had made that decision earlier.... I burnt.. From compliance and it all got thrown back on my face:it's your fault Lemo everything is your fault. Yooo the depression that went with that is suicidal. You literally need someone out of yourself more like a higher power to survive this toxicity. Great show.
This "empowerment" thing confuses...
I sometimes feel there is a difference between an "Empowered Woman" and a "Working Woman"...
[For me] An "Empowered Woman" is a woman who knows her value and recognizes her power, while a "Working Woman" is basically what we often call/refer to as "Career Woman"...
[For example]
Maybe, let's say we didn't have to work because all that we "need and want" we've got already, how will an "Empowered Woman" be like?...
❤
But why must we prepare boys. Why can't we empower both to have the same opportunity say girls.
Equality of opportunities is very powerful than equality outcome.
You'd rather have more men in this discussion to have objective ideas. These ladies are dominating not helping our men out. Full of pride 😢
Loooove this ❤
In my opinion, I believe both men and women to strive to be successful in whatever they believe is success for them, and to choose who they want to be with. Everyone has their own preferences, whether is realistic or not, of who they want to be with and if both parties involved are fine with it than its okay.
For example, I know someone, a beautiful independent lady who is very successful financially and in her career, and I wondered why she settled for someone who is just making enough to go by whereby I know she can definitely get someone in her "status" rank. And when I asked her, it turned out that she prefers it that way for various reason of her own. Of which both of them are happy with that.
The boy child conversation needs to discussed in depth. We need to be cognisant of the male psyche from the migrant labour times to the empowered woman era. Then ask how we bring the boy child to man along. It’s a long journey we need to embark on as a nation, mothers raising sons, etc.
Great topic, but I feel like the host and co-host swallowed the guest and his opinions. We barely heard what Thabo had to say and his thought process, etc. There is a reason, I'm sure, that they invited him as a guest and didn't have the conversation without a guest.
Okay, now at the end of the episode, I think men just need to be taught that it’s not lazy of your wife to get a helper who will do the domestic chores while also helping you to balance the finances, I loved the point about the economy being bad atm that’s so true so being a house husband I’m not sure how that will work
Yah, I think men need to be taught how to live with empowered women but also at some point I think women are too empowered and they are not taught how to still respect their husband in situations like this.
So education all around is needed. And I think we can only find answers in Christ 😊
I'm here from Twitter 😂😂😂 I love the podcast. I am part of #Theconversationcapital now
Welcome ♥️
Same here. Beautiful conversation ❤️
I don't think man should be prepared for empowered women, instead man should also be empowered because at the end of the day as women we want to end up with more successful, confident supportive man .......but my question is who is fit enough to empower man and be taken serious by them cause i doubt most men will accept empowerment that easly
like really... Where does the economy enter in our relationship. Here from twitter, social media is a very dangerous place.
You are pretty ❤
When I look around, it seems like the competition amongst men themselves harms men mentally more than anything. It seems like men marry women to get status amongst others men, buy nice cars to praised by other men, date multiple women to get praise from other men. Men don’t have an issue with women earning more than them; men have an issue with other men knowing that it’s the women that makes more money in a relationship. Men don’t want to be embarrassed by a women in front of other men. Any thoughts on this? Im curious to know what conversation are being had amongst men themselves about this. Is it the same traditional conversations or ?
In a nut shell, marriage is a partnership and only can work on the principle of interdependency and nothing alse. And interdependency is a choice that can only be made by Independent people.
I came from tiktok because I wanted to hear the whole story
lol i thought I would just watch 5 minutes but jikijiki 2 videos in and subscribed 🤣
😂 welcome ♥️
I have some questions (still haven’t finished the episode 😅)
Does this mean that men shouldn’t strive to be more successful than their lady? Like they now have to do what they do and be what they be and then find a woman and be happy that the woman is who they are and they move on with life?
Or is it okay if the man still wants to strive to be better or well of than the woman so that if push ever turns to shove then he can pick up the slack?
Are we also saying as a society that in relationships women will stop disrespecting men because the men has less than the woman?
Or are just purely talking about the types of dudes that throw tantrums because the lady is doing what she wants to do and that’s bringing her success?
Hi Ursula, I am single mom, struggling empowering my son. I dnt know how to prepare my precious son for the empowered women. Where are the tools guy.
Get him a father figure.
The greatest obstacle the nuclear family faces in Morden relationships under equality is hypergamy.
Over archiving men historicaly knew they had to marry down Socioeconomically.
With equal opportunity,it's inevitable that women rise to the top too. But the men of that class still have an option to pick traditionally. Leaving their counterparts stuck.
Because Morden women still require man to produce as much as them. And are repulsed by the idea of "dating down"
Empowerment can’t be limited to commercial empowerment.
The yester man ( traditional) is likely married - these are our parents. The present man, where he expects his woman to behave like his mother, it’s purely because we learn from the family system, all our values. The present woman expects her man to mind all the things the yester-man did, and more.
Disagreements on house chores ignore the high prevalence of house help nowadays.
The fundamental mental issue is that the present day man and woman are not groomed for marriage. There’s a lot of focus on the glitz in marriage yeet marriages are sustained in the not so rosey level.
Empowered women want men who cook and they want to tell their friends about it. Cute as it might be, that’s not how successful marriages are made.
Hi there, i love your show. I believe in disclosure my finances and academics. Our women are empowered and a true gentlemen wont try to jeoperdise the future of her lady. I was turned down but honestly due to a poor finances and still working on my academics. Being a firm believer in academics and great finance, i honoured her decision and respect her a lot. Remember i am working on myself to be better.
Rewatching this 😅
You got a new subbie🎉😂
I truly don't comment much on TH-cam videos, but when I saw the clip on TikTok I had to come here.
According to the StatSA: Statistical Release on marriages and divorces 2020 published March 2022 not only is your guest wrong, he is extremely, painfully wrong.
In summary not only do black couples in South Africa have the lowest rates of divorce of the other race groups studied (black, white, Indian and coloured), they are quite literally 5 times less likely to divorce than their white counterparts. Black women are the least likely of all women in heterosexual marriage to initiate divorce. In the case of white, Indian and coloured heterosexual unions, women made up upwards of 56% of the initiators of divorce. Whereas black women were initiators of divorce 48% of the time. Additionally, the highest rate of divorce occurred in marriages of between 5-9 years, followed by those in marriages of 10 -14 years. And couples younger than 25, and older than 65 were the least likely to get divorced.
So I would be incredibly generous in saying the basis of this conversation is extremely faulty.
Also anecdotally, I have yet to meet a Black mother that favours their daughters over their sons; I ask your guest to give an example of black boys being "pushed to the side" in literal terms. Rather what I have seen is the coddling of black boys: they are allowed to play whilst their sisters cook and clean. They are allowed to party when their sisters are told to study and close their legs.
Thirdly, let me remind your guest that parliament is still majority male, though that gap is closing, and we have yet to have a female president. The patriarchy does in fact benefit men, including the uneducated, our former president is an excellent example here.
I should also mention that the gap between the genders regarding education is not solely a black thing, or a South African thing, it is an experience across the globe, for example in the US they cite a similar problem.
Can I ask like is it not a contradiction in order to follow and believe in feminism yet you separate it when it comes to a relationship?
Which studio do you use to shoot your content?🔥
A relationship that is not based on basic traditional values doesn't usually survive for long.
Good conversation as always, but your problem you keep on interrupting each other girls.....
Please try to improve on that department.
Otherwise your topics are very good.
I fully agree with you kn that one..
Please ladies work on that❤❤
Lol I have many thoughts around this. I think if you're going against logic it's like hitting your head against the wall.
We all know the traditional backgrounds we come from and marriage in itself is a traditional institution. So already you're dealing with a traditional entity with traditional values but you want to be in it on your own terms.
My question is why do you want to get into such an institution knowing very well you're not traditional in your outlook?
The expectations that men have are built-in the marriage institution itself.
What I think has not happened is an open conversation about this entity and whether we still want to use it as a vehicle to build families. And there has to be an agreement as to what the institution is and what it is not.
As a man I have no problem with women empowerment but let's iron out the fine print. What are the terms of the agreement if I am to marry you. Are we following traditional processes such as lobola and so on?
I am saying these things are going wrong from inception. We are taking different elements from everywhere and applying them to our relationships and we're doing is creating Frankenstein relationships. A little bit of tradition here, little bit of church here, little of TV romance there, etc.
Like I'm saying, it ends up being a Frankenstein monster that can't function, hence the impasse you talk about. Personally, and with my experience dating modern women, I don't see myself getting married. Let's iron out the details of traditions and expectations.
yours is a conversation people in general are not ready to have... there are few happier about iLobola than the lady in question - oblivious to the fact that she is implicitly participating in one of the strongholds of 'patriarchy'.....
And that's just one of a plethora of examples of the dischord of trying to marry innate tendencies (nature), tradition and modern ideology
@stoveproductions6947 Exactly! Lol and ya ey, you're right, we're probably not ready for this conversation
I came back here from twitter😶🌫 and I'm so worried about having to shrink myself to be in a relationship. Money and all it's dynamics can be so empowering for women but can be so emasculating for men🤔 re tla tshabela kae
O buwa nnete Bonga
With all due respect..it has always been a norm to uplift the girl more than the boy,it started so atomic,now its a whole explosion.notice whenever a young boy is persueing a girl and her mom shows up ..the moms reprimand is gonna be “yeka lomfana uzok mosha” as if the boy doesn’t have dreams
When you reach 40-45 that's when you realize how simple is love and how important is having a normal marriage. That's when you realize the consequences of materializing relationship.
Why is 'Thabang wa Zone 7' catching strays?😂
Can I just ask how you got to the point of "Feminists don't get spoilt" statement?
Im here from tik tock
Welcome ♥️
Always men that need to be prepared, mfxm
It's not fair that women won't take in a house husband, and he's being referred to as irresponsible, whilst housewives aren't called irresponsible. No empowered woman wants to take in the financial burden of a man , but a man is expected to. But yeah we are men we can't complain 😅just figure out a plan🙌🏿
I disagree with the whole notion of preparing a young black man for an empowered woman why do we want to prepare a man for a woman what is just happening is in the process of empowering the woman we have forgoten to empower the young black man as well we have to be the most equal society ever in history i mean the woman has access to every place a man has access to and as you have rightfully said more women than man are in varsitu more women than man are owning properties when are we gonna start empowering both genders equally where formally the man was actually prepared and groomed for success and to be a provider and the woman was left behind nowadays the man is left to find their own way around life and obviously the example they have is our fathers who were patriachal and obviously that man will never know how to deal with an empowered woman the answer actually lies in actual equality where both parties are actually equal they will be able to deal with each other its time up for afirmative action as it is creating the same mischief it sort to adress
You know, the world is an exhausting place , you don’t want to come home to more exhaustion.
I am not out to offend anyone.... I’m telling the truth.
Men want peace and quiet.
The truth will be completely rejected, I’m sure.
I can’t help but I notice that the ghost lady is here in the capital conversation is taking on a toxic masculine expression & projecting when she insists that men don’t need to be capacitated on the newly empowered woman as anywhere where there’s a shift socially. There will always be challenges shifting in bias/dominant truth for each and everyone & that needs room as to the masculine provides space for that unless the famine wants chaos…kids are part of this space & can’t be caught up in male⚖️female power struggles…🤔nourishment 4🧠
Are women preparing for an alpa? You guys are talking and are agreeing but you're not on the same page.
This gentleman (Thabo) seem to be cornered by these two ladies, he's trying too hard to be careful in what he's saying not to say rub them the wrong way in him being radically honest and realistic
No man who has a full testosterone above his oestrogen will be will to accommodate the idea of being taken care by his partner
A man by nature, protects and supports( this may be debatable) his family, and a lady with intentions of having a family functions way better as a home maker
Hence we see most families that have one parent being a man tend to chaotic and tends, and families headed by women are always a success in many cases