Great video. Love the honesty. So many people think buying a RED instantly means more work and that’s the end of the story. So many other factors go into it.
Indeed, great point of view @caleb. It's easy to say Red its a great camera but at the end is what makes your work/workflow better. Next camera? Well why not try a Blackmagic Pocket 4K, you can set an amazing rig for 1/10 of the price, you will have prores and raw, yes its a 4:3 sensor but try a couple lenses and take your own conclusions. All the best, cheers.
I think this is a very good video.... I currently own the Ursa Mini, but I've always wanted RED. For some reason, lusting after the next piece of shiny gear slows down production of projects that could be done with the gear one already owns. I'm going to save this video and watch it everytime I get gear lust. Thanks for sharing your experience.
It's like you got the hottest chick in high school and you're telling us her personality sucks, so you are leaving her. Haha. I get so jealous when I see people with fancy gear, such as this RED. Deep down I know I don't need a RED, but still it makes me feel so behind. This is human nature.. I guess. Gear lust never stops man and I am glad you made this video.
"Human Nature" is also living long enough to grow up and realizing that personality beats looks in the long run - and more often than not, in the short term as well. If you point a RED at shit, it won't look like gold - nor golden shit. It'll be as shitty as if you pointed an a6300 at it instead. Make no mistake, I love gear/cameraporn as much as anyone who's in this industry, but it's important to be able to discern between what looks cool and what's actually useful and affordable.
Haha.. Marcos, we are way behind and shooting on gear 5 years old (or more) D7100's and P7700- we have pushed these cameras beyond the limit..... Though we are thinking - will cleaner image attract more views. By the, we love your channel and that Adjustment Layer trick for FCPX has saved us so much time in editing. Keep up the good work.
Funny analogy! I think it's more accurate to say you got the hottest chick in school, but you were too insecure to handle her, and you felt more comfortable with a beater. Totally fine. Leave pro tools for pro gigs.
Watching this now after almost a year of owning my RED, it hits me. I had always wanted a RED ever since I got into filmmaking at 16 years old (I'm almost 24). I got the opportunity to own a RED and I thought I'd get more work, filming would be better, everything would be better. I do love my red... But having had 25K to spend on either just one camera system, or say... A C200, an aputure 120D MKII... A bigger gimbal, some nicer glass... Nicer lights, etc etc... I wonder if I made a mistake. I have actually only used my camera for paid work like... Twice?... Once?.... Its honestly a shame, but also down to me moving countries and having no reputation and not enough work to show what I can do. The camera didn't help me get work, that'll always be down to past work and you making the effort to reach out to multiple potential clients. I'm seriously considering selling the camera and buying a C200 and the 120D MKII and then just saving/investing whatever is left. We gearheads love to collect gear but if we really look at what we need and what we use vs what we want and what we have... I think most of the times there's a lot of excess things we just don't need to have. Got a big decision to think about. Happy to hear thoughts from others. Thanks for the video man
Wow!! I felt dude’s pain and anxiety. It’s not always the coolness of the gear, but the vision, skillfullness and passion of the person holding it that creates some of the best work.
Man, I fully agree with what you said. RED was the "goal" camera, and I do business to business work exclusively. When I rented the RED for the first time and opened the box - all of the hype that I built up myself started to slowly deflate. The modularity of the camera is great for Hollywood, but for a single shooter - it just isn't practical. Great video.
Completely agree, everyone I’ve spoken to who has used a red say exactly what your saying. We’ve loved our FS7 and now GH5 and BMPCC4K. They’ve completely met our needs and clients needs and will continue to do so for many more years in fact I see the mirrorless cameras doing the majority of our work in future as they are so good. Very few clients ask us what camera it will be shot on, what they care about is my company delivering a unique creative film for them which does exactly what they need. They don’t care about the tool we use to do it as they trust us enough that what whatever we choose to use it will be perfect for their film.
Thanks for your honesty. Break-ups are hard but when you're in the wrong relationship - you'll feel a lot better once it's behind you 😬! Hope the sale went well today and I'm looking forward to seeing some content from "Caleb Unleashed!"
“Wow, I’ve never seen a red before.” Lol... I think that’s exactly what I said when I first saw it. Great moral to the video though. The more expensive package isn’t necessarily the right fit for all (even though, expensive gear is definitely fun).
I feel you brother. I was in a similar situation. I had both the Red Epic and Scarlet. The kind of money I spent on building out both cameras, I could have made 2 indie films with that. Red did a fantastic job in branding. Everyone is going of their names. When i realized this, I sold my Red Scarlet and purchased the Blackmagic Ursa with it. Later purchased the Ursa Mini 4.6K and now just ordered the Ursa Pocket 4K. I'm full BMD cameras. Excellent for what I do. I just rent out my Epic Dragon and will be selling it soon because the demand is no longer there, even in rental. There's so much great cameras for cheap these days. So will be selling my Epic Dragon by the end of this year. So I feel your frustration. :-)
I just got a C100 MKII and recorded my first wedding with it. I am extremely happy with how it performed. DPAF was great when using it on a gimbal, and I only had to bring two batteries for a shoot that spanned over a 12 hour day (and two 32GB SD Cards). Didn't have to use high quality internal audio recording for that, but I use it for my personal projects/TH-cam. I've never done any wedding videos before, that one being my first, but after posting some clips of that wedding, I already have two more inquiries for events. My C100 MKII only cost me $2800 (slightly used, body, top grip, side grip, extra battery, charger, and AC adapter) and if I can land these two other events I will already have that camera paid off. Not trying to make a sell for the C100 MKII, but it goes to show that you don't need the best of the best in 2018, and cameras that are "older" can still produce amazing quality when used correctly.
I love my c100 mk ii.. 90% of my work are done by that camera and the footage looks great! What's crazy is that almost all of my export/deliveries are HD and the clients are always happy with it.
I own a Helium 8k, I understand where you're coming from. It all depends on the gig, some of my most successful filmmaker friends don't own an ounce of gear. They just rent everything. Keep up the good work. Although, I really do enjoy my RED!
Totally agree. As I have matured in my career, I have found that the TOOL that does THE JOB is so so important. And the notes you said about price point is so important as well. You can now invest that money into lighting, lenses, and whatever else!
This video perfectly explains why the rise of hybrid cameras took place from the Canon 5DmkII all the way to the GH5s now; portability, ergonomics and bang for your buck. I'm investing in the Blackmagic Pocket for narrative work, but I'm sure I'll end up with a GH5 or a C100 for run and gun in the future too, they're both so versatile and user friendly.
My FS5m2 does everything I need plus expand into the prores raw cinema space. What I love about it are the ergonomics. It may no longer have the specs on paper that other newer cams have out of the box, but the usability and accessibility this can provides is incredible.
My goodness what a heartbreaking and sad video to watch. Very well produced and honest though. As I prepare to buy my first RED camera, it hurts my heart to see so many videos like this. They all have the same common themes. I'm glad you found your way forward and got something that works better for you.
Thanks for the video. I want to share my setup: I have a used sony fs700 and an atomos shofun inferno. You can buy that for ~$3000 in total. And it is a 4k60 raw machine with 2k240 option as well.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I debated buying the URSA Mini Pro vs the Red Scarlet-W. I ended getting the URSA since I could not figure out how I would get my money back with Red. Plus, the URSA has more features I need to speed up production. This video needs to be shared to those thinking of buying Red.
I wish Red would come out with a budget kit that is comparable to the C200/Mini Ursa/FS7 range. They just seem like they have to nickle and dime you at every step of the process.
They won't, they tried it with the Raven and it got super crazy, they were so backedup that they were delivering their orders year and a half after being placed. They had to discontinue the whole thing and since they have really bad costumer service well, I doubt they'll ever go back to doing that again.
There have been a few articles that said they’re working with Foxconn (who makes the iPhone apparently) to produce something like that. Here’s to hoping we get that.
I use a gh5 for nearly everything I shoot now. No rig, no external battery, no matte box, no other extras other than an Atomos Ninja. With the ibis in camera I shoot mostly hand held. My work has improved as a result. I get about 3 times more shots from better angles than I used to when using a bigger rigged camera.
Hugh Sweeney i’ve worked with the gh5 and red a lot and both cameras are great but at the end of the day it’s a tool. If you need run and gun, go for the gh5. If image quality is your priority and you have a crew, go for the red. I absolutely love the red and have in the past tried to build my gh5 out into a red like camera but it gets too complex with too many parts and still just doesn’t compare to a red. Also, editing 8k red footage is easier on my rig than editing gh5 anamorphic footage... that compression just eats through your cpu
THIS exactly. I can’t stand all the youtubers and random short film kids thinking Red is the answer. It’s for creating cinema quality work, not sterile videography work. People don’t seem to understand that and that’s why they get these cameras and instantly feel regret.
The "Cinema" level cameras I am looking at are the Kinefinty ones. They seem to be a nice in between of a C100 or C200 and a RED, and for a fraction of a cost of the RED. Great video, and great points! Always been a dream to own a RED, but there are so many options out there now!
No one uses redvolt batteries for real work. I use them so the camera don’t shuts down when changing batteries. Also, most professional productions don’t use in camera audio. You can send a cable from the audio village, or you can use a cheap mic to record reference audio so you can sync automatically, but professional audio always records separately. Your problem is that what you do for living doesn’t requiere a Red Camera, and you can not afford it. You need a hell of a lot more than what you bought. And you need a crew, specially a focus puller and a good follow focus and a matte box. For what you do, stay with DSLR, mirrorless or video cameras, is gonna be easier, cheaper to do it. Digital cinema cameras are for Tv Series, Films, Commercials, etc. And yes, you do need a crew. I’m a cinematographer, and always shoot on RED or Alexa, I have 2 feature films and about 6 tv series shot on RED, and actually have never used a DSLR or small camera for video. And just got asked to shot a corporate video by a friend of the family, and could have asked to shoot it on RED, or even in Blackmagic Ursa Mini 4.6k if I want it cheaper, but I decide to try a mirrorless, I bought a Sony A7riii, and rented a A7Sii, and shot it with those two and a gimbal, and I couldn’t be happier! It way easier using those small cameras, they’re a lot more sensitive to light, lighter, using the gimbal is a breeze, and having perfect auto focus is a most! I would put change them to so small video shoots, even music videos. But I wouldn’t use them to shoot fiction, it will take more time to do it that way, and you’ll need to buy or rent a ton of equipment for the camera, like tripods, wireless follow focus, matte boxes, etc... that the price of the camera is irrelevant. So yeah, stick to what works for you.
I love the honesty. We as video producers sometimes aspire towards owning the most expensive and admired tools only to realize they don't fit our needs. I'm content with my C100 and happy to hear so many others here realizing the same thing.
Wooden camera - A-box audio solution :P Also you can get an ND Red PL or EF Mount. For corporate videos, events and interviews, the Red is overkill. It's meant for commercial, narrative and high end documentary work. Most small clients won't care about the model or camera as much.
I was torn between the Raven and C200. The deal breaker was built-in ND and built-in XLR. Those 2 things are a must have especially if you’re a one man band. So happy with the C200, RAW Lite is a simply gorgeous image.
Thank you for sharing this experience! I agree, I love the C100 just because it a device that actually helps you in shooting. It's like your mini assistant.
Amazing video, we often get more focused on gear rather than being creative with and fully utilizing what we already have. I often try to get used gear of an older generation if I can, you are right most any camera today is good enough to allow us to be creative. Cameras are just tools and the artist eye and vision makes all the difference. The most expensive or tech heavy camera is not always the best, the camera that makes us want to get out there and shoot and allows us to execute our creative vision is the best.
I have suffered a great deal from Gear Owning & Continually Buying Addiction for several years and I know EXACTLY where you are coming from Caleb ! Thumbs up for YOU good man ! You have dared to PURGE yourself of the tentacles of your addiction !!! The Canon C200 and Red 4K have gone head to head in many TH-cam videos I have seen, and in most (But not all) cases, the Canon RAW Lite codec @ 12 Bit 4K DCI spec (4096 x 2160) on the C200 held redeemable information in the blown out areas and too dark areas of the image just like the RED 4K camera did, but not like a Red 6K or 8K did. I must say the results from the Canon C200 @ 10 Bit 4:2:2 look amazing, and the colour precison of the C200 @ 12 bit is strikingly good. The C200 in Davinci Resolve with a good timer can image and density match the footage to RED RAW, and few could tell the difference.
I study film editing and have had the same issues. My question for me "what type of camera should "I" buy. Man !!!! This is a huge topic. A tip for whom would like to buy a camera: learn film editing.
I was just about to pull the trigger on purchasing the Red but not after watching this video Thanks for saving me a shit load of unnecessary expenses i didn't take into consideration at all. I got so wrapped up in the hype of the brand name,
Watching this video when it was first released vs now (mid 23), it's definitely good advice at the time and still remains solid. When you think about the acceleration of video specs in the past 10 years, and the price of gear dropping, making content is king. Sure having a red means clients will be momentarily impressed, but showreel and experience trumps all.
For years, a RED has been at the top of my dream gear list. But I shoot documentaries and events that require lightweight gear with a lot of speed and agility, so I've made do with mirrorless cameras and put up with their codecs. Watching this helps keep my RED fantasies at bay.
I wish more people were as honest about their red cameras. For so many it can be the end goal just to own a red without actually thinking what they will use it for. We had the dilemma a year or so ago and ended up getting an FS7 because it fitted us better for where we were at as a company. Not ruling out a red purchase in the future but it’s so easy to be hypnotised by the prestige associated with owning one without taking a step back and thinking about the outlay. There’s always the rental house in the mean time! Great video!
Caleb, really honest and fully advice comments.Of course now that we're late 2020, my question would be: Would you finally go back to RED, now that the Komodo is available?
Really appreciated the honesty and I 100% agree that RED is not for everyone. Personally being a RED owner I feel like the best way (how I did it anyway) of purchasing a RED is purchasing a good quality second hand one. I paid about 18k AUD (about 11k USD) for a my Scarlet W kit. Came with all the part Caleb has (apart from it came with V mount batteries, and it was a 5inch monitor) and I feel like it worth every penny of the price. C200 are absolutely great cameras, but I still feel like it’s no comparison for the RED image wise.
I like the C100ii since it's more in my price range, but I've been wondering if I should not get it and get a better camera that is more "future proof."
I relate to this a bit using the GH5 and GH5s with little M4/3 lens, while leaving the C100MKII at home with the giant glass. Been debating getting into Red, so thanks for this👍
Really good speech Caleb! I learned so much, but most important this is comparable to other material things too, don't just think twice and buy in when it's such huge amount! :-]
Really a great rundown and I appreciate the honesty. It’s easy to feel the need to justify such a large purchase, but you’ve confirmed a lot of what I suspected about RED. I keep hearing people say the best filming experience they had was on the C100 mk2, and it’s shocking how well it’s held up in the world of exponential technology advancement. I’m really intrigued by the new Blackmagic cameras and their raw feature, could be a game changer!
Yeah, if Canon could make a C100 III for $4,000 I think it would sell a lot. (Remove RAW from C200, remove SDI, other features.) I just think they go slow and steady with cinema releases and the C200 is a great upgrade for anyone who wants 4K.
I love the hell out of my Ursa Mini 4.6k-even before the newer raw-old Raw was still very good. but so is ProRes with the film gamma. I feel like the Ursa Mini addresses all of these complaints except autofocus, but especially the price.
By a large black curtain or black blanket to cover your equipment .That's what i do in Hawaii with my carpentry equipment and so far nothing has been stolen yet. Awesome video content! Thanks for sharing.
Same boat although I have been lucky enough to have had REDs for free on loan. Last year, I had a RED Epic on loan for a month, I used it for a few client shoots. I had not used a RED since the MX One days and I have to say, my experience echoed yours in many ways. REDs are made for crewed productions, period, they are terrible for documentary and run & gun shooting. You can use them for that but they are the wrong tool for that kind of shooting. I was also surprised at how weird a lot of the RED workflow issues with the camera were, black shading for shooting high resolution took over an hour?!?! The first Epic they gave me had a defect so they had to swap it out. I was also amazed at how much noise and grain was present in the image even at just ISO 800, the REDs, at least the non-Gemini, are terrible in low light. REDs, obviously, with a crew, good lighting, look amazing. They are just the wrong tool for many of us. Production in general has gotten smaller, leaner, and the RED workflow is the antithesis of this new style. Be careful what you wish for because you might get it. I have the C200 as our A camera now and it's been great and has already paid for itself. Cinema RAW Light is a decent format that most editing programs now support. It could be better but it's pretty good quality for a $7,500.00 camera. Super easy to shoot with too compared to a RED.
Honestly, We shoot with the C300 MKII quite a bit but don't own it but I don't miss the 10-bit codec at all. I prefer to shoot RAW when I really care about what I want the image to look like. The C200 is a RAW camera, I just think about the 8-bit 4:2:0 as a proxy or for low end shoots. Most of our clients are perfectly happy with the 8-bit 4:2:0. The C200 is smaller than the C300 MK II, lighter, better screen, on-body XLRs are great compared to the kludge on the C300 MKII clamshell. All of the things we want for the C200? Mostly operational issues that could be fixed through firmware but Canon hasn't yet addressed them. It sucks that you can only output from HDMI OR SDI, not both at the same time. SDI is 1080/2k only, should output UHD. The C100 MKI had a function where you could just stab the joystick on the handle to access the quick menu selections, C200 doesn't do that and it should. Also, remember, when shoot 24, 25 or 30p in RAW, it's 12-bit. I wish the buttons lit up like the C300 MKII buttons do. Also HATE that you can only shoot RAW DCI. I hate DCI, all of my EF-S lenses vignette like crazy in 17:9 CDI but look fine in 16:9 UHD. Who the hell wants or needs DCI, hardly anyone, for us, it's just a nuisance. Please, please enable CRL in UD, 2k and 1080 Canon, are you listening? But overall, a year in, C200 has been a GREAT camera, very few deep complaints, but a lot of little things are annoying.
I think the obvious best option is an Ursa Pro G2. You’re getting pretty much everything from the Raven and more for a third of what you paid for the Scarlet and it addresses 90% of the problems you mentioned. I’ve rented ursa’s on projects for years now and love them. I’m finally buying one soon as well!
Almost exactly the same reasons I sold mine. I realized I had left my Scarlet Dragon at the studio for 6 months because it was too hard to use on the quick shoots we were doing.
As a C200 owner, who's been working with both the RED line and the C-series line of cameras, I'd suggest you to try out both the C200 and C300MKII For a couple of weeks before you end up deciding which one to get. For me, it was pretty obvious which one to get, and that's because I did a ton of web-based content, which I knew would be viewed on phones and tablets, and the MP4 format of the C200 was perfect. I didn't have the most powerful workstation, so having the format that didn't strain my iMac was really great, and then having the possibility to shoot RAW for the narrative work, where there's an offline/online workflow, and getting to utilize the 4K 12 bit raw was great. That being said, the C200 is quirky as heck! But I respect Canons decision to make it like that, since they have to protect their workhorse C300MKII. I wish it wasn't the case, but can't do anything about it... Doing anything that relates to television or multi-camera, the C300 is the way to go. Timecode, better mid-range format which is still really great compared to the C200 RAW, and the possibility to fine tune every part of the recording settings and everything that has to do with image quality is so much more expanded on the C300. The C200 could almost feel like a trial version of the C300. The "Max" setting for both fps and resolution is the same, or even greater on C200, but the C300 lets you fine tune everything. So having worked with both, I tend to feel limited by the C200, though in some instances it would deliver a greater image than the C300.
Thanks for the input Dovydas. I've used both of them quite a bit. Tested and used the C300 II before deciding on RED. And rented the C200 to review it after I had my RED for a while. I think C200 is enough since what I do isn't broadcast.
You've echoed so many of the same thoughts I frequently share with others on why I'd never personally own a RED camera. The proprietary nature of the accessories alone is enough to make it unjustifiable from a value perspective. And there are so many cameras now at lower price points with great image quality. I mean damn the Blackmagic Pocket 4k is 1300 and shoots RAW internally and has an XLR input. lol Also, at the end of the day, lighting and art direction are much more influential to the final "look" of an image than the camera is. Money is better spent on that imo.
I have the same camera, and am almost in the same boat. Love it to death, which is why I'm hanging onto it. But I think I will be selling before it depreciates more. And it's not necessarily the best fit for my career at present. Nice vid.
it takes courage to express your experience and decision in the first place, so thanks for that. As you said, it's for higher end production with big crews. But it's a bad one on your behalf. Rent the new bmpc or the C300 which you are familiar with. Goodluck mate
I met a RED team when they were wrapping up shoots for a commercial at a cafe and chatted/annoyed them. Realizing how heavy things were, how big team for one camera, always having one person guarding the camera etc, I started to realize that dream camera would be horrible for single shooter, run and gun. Might be great for a team requiring stellar image over all other aspects, but would never fit my style even if I could afford it.
I have a C200 and love it’s. The raw footage is so good for grading and the 1080 is great when doing internet stuff or low budget stuff. Also the auto focus makes t great for one man band situations. Good luck with everything man!
Thank you for this honest review. Too often people focus on gear and I am guilty of lusting over RED cameras. Your video puts it back into perspective to focus on what type of content you shoot and I always film alone as well. I'm happy with my Sony system.
Fascinating Caleb. I've used all the same cameras. Interesting you actually enjoy using the Canon C series cameras. I dread using them compared to small mirrorless options like the GH5 and Sony A7 series. For the exact same reasons as you dislike the Red. Size, complexity and most importantly speed of operation. If it was a competition, no question the GH5 is the easiest handling video camera yet created. Your shot rate is guaranteed to be highest on a GH5. It's basically all sacrifices from there. Every step you take to increase image quality over the GH5, decreases your shot rate and convenience. It really comes down to your priority. I prioritize number of useable angles and convenience. Some prioritize pure quality. If you're a single operator, definitely chose the faster shooting option. If you have a full crew then obviously you can afford to significantly reduce your shot rate. Think of it in pure math. How many quality shots could you provide the editor/client on a one hour shoot? With the GH5 I could genuinely deliver over 50 if the shoot dictated it. That's nearly one quality shot a minute. On an Alexa I'd struggle to do 20. Same with Red. Bin the ego, use science, select the best camera for the work you do, not the work you wish you did...
Not sure why you bought this camera in the first place, but it’s clearly the wrong tool for what you do. Appreciate the honesty tho, there are still plenty of people that own a RED and all they do are weddings or tech reviews which is absolutely ridiculous. A basic mirrorless would be totally ok for that kind of stuff. I think owning a RED or an Arri make sense if you shoot commercials or films and you are booked once a week and your client requires that kind of camera. That’s about it. Good luck!
I don't really share much about my client work on TH-cam, which is what I used this camera for mainly, not just tech reviews. No weddings. When I bought it I was thinking I wanted to DP more and move into agency work, but I haven't really done that. I have learned a ton about using a RED though, so I could now easily use the system as a rental and be really comfortable.
Hey Matteo, for my 50th (which is in a couple of days) I had dreamed of this camera.. After chatting with you - it was clear that was not the tool for us - as much as I thought -wow, maybe my sucky work would look less sucky. We know that is not true. ..
Thought I'd tune in on this conversation. A nice car will get nice clients faster than a nice camera. Put your money into the first impressions of your company. When a client sees you get out of a nice rig, they know they'll have to pay for it. When you step out of a Gremlin... they know they have you by the family jewels. I own Blackmagic cameras. If they actually ask what kind of camera I'm shooting on I simply say, "Anything you want me to shoot on." Then, when they see the line item, they're usually good with Blackmagic hahaha.
Thoughts : - My clients don't need or ask for 4K : *Finally someone gets that. We don't need to deliver in 4K, at least for another 3-5 years, to most clients, even TVs (there are like, 5 TV channels in 4K, or something) and true 4K streaming doesn't exist. - I don't end up taking it because I worry about it getting stolen and it's so heavy : .... well I dunno what to say. That's an high-end production camera, that's not a camera you "take" with you to go for a walk. It's ain't supposed to be. As for stealing, never let your camera out of sight ever, attach your bag straps to a table or a chair if you're in a public and carrying around is a pain... but I even carry my camera bag to the bathroom. No kidding. There really nothing you can do about it, you *have* to be come a little paranoid. My dad have been in this game for over 40 years and he's... ya know, you become kinda weird ;) - The batteries only last an hour :...what?! You bough all the fancy expensive add-ons but you didn't bough the V-mount plate adapter? Oh c'mon now. Nobody use cameras like this without V-mount or Gold-mount batteries. There simply isn't enough juice in any other solution. RED proprietary batteries are a joke. - No autofocus : again, at the risk of sounding like a dick, it you want a small camera with autofocus, there are plenty of options out there that are perfect for that. A RED is NOT that, but a RED is great at what it does. - I find the image is really noisy : No, it's not. It's have a certain grit to it, which makes it the camera of choice for many sci-fi movies. Having said that, it's a cinema camera. The low-light capabilities are simply not the same as a good mirrorless. The sensor is totally different. It you don't light up extensively and shoot low-light, forget about using a camera like this. - Filming with it is just slower and more work : it sure is. If you don't need RAW, there's really no reason why you should be buying this. (next three points are all related to each other) - No built-in ND filters : well, sure, but then again, this is clearly not a camera for run and gun work, never will and never was. So if you wanted a run and gun camera... WHY did you bough a RED? :P - No built-in XLRs : True, because it's modular. You only need XLR when working on single system. Which ain't the case (most) of the time you use a camera like this, because you have timecode and a sound guy. The production module gives you more IO than just about anything on the market tho. - 1750$ for mic input jack and consumers connections : I agree, this is lame. But then again... an input jack and consumer connections on a RED? Why the hell would they even bother putting connections like this on a cinema camera? They're just NOT sturdy enough for set. I've seen a camera getting dragged from an SDI connection, and didn't give up. An HDMI would have cut in half, and the head would've have got stuck in there. My guess for this is that RED saw that some people fell for the marketing who had different needs, so they made that product for them. - Hybrid cameras : I feel you, I love them. So why the hell did you bough a RED is beyond me if you don't work on sets but OK... - Would get a lot of cash back : yes and no. The RED module is amazing for freelance DPs working on set, *because of the modularity*. You start with a brain and basic accessories. Then you can upgrade to an Arri PL mount if you work more on cinema. You can upgrade to the touch screen if you actually feel like you need a touch screen (ya know, before putting 3K down on it because you "need" it - although it's practical for sure). You can add the XLR, SDI, D-Tap connections *when you need them later on*. So actually you're not supposed to invest in all the accessories at the same time. Yes it's a lot of money.. but regarding being a business owner, plenty of people in unions are business owners, too. They rent their own gear to the production company. My dad have well over 100K in gear. But he have well over 30 years of experience! You accumulate gear over the years, a lot of it that can be used across the board (tripods and stands, adapters, V-mount batteries, monitors, follow-focus, etc). All in all, I feel like a lot of people who don't need a RED at all fell into their marketing and coolness factor. I won't be needing one myself until I'M 10-15 years full-time in the game on cinema sets. For now I love my Olympus and shoots 1080p because for my personal projects I don't need a cinema camera. Thanks for the honesty tho :)
What great lesson. I have been there with "the latest gear", in the end it hardly matters. I have just switched my still camera to one I tested 10 years ago and thought was astounding. Tried all the other latest models, but the results I get from the old one are still good. All you said in this video, would have driven me daft, good luck in the future.
I appreciate your honesty and transparency. Really good info as I'm at a crossroads right now with what camera gear invest in or not. I think I'll stick with my C200 after watching this. Thank you!
Wow, some definite honesty here. The reality is with each passing day we're getting better and better cameras for less and less. The Red carries with it an unmistakable mystique; like showing up to a graduation party in a Ferrari. But like the car, it's endless $ for the performance and it's finicky to boot.
Did the same mistake! Thought I need one of those high end cameras, but I didn’t have any customer who cares about it. It’s definitely an overkill for a small group of shooters. I ended up with a C200 and I am really really happy about it. It’s really great quality for a good price.
Just because you can outfit a Red with handles doesn't mean you can operate it like a mirrorless camera, they're still very studio oriented cameras. On a union show we'll have at least 10 Anton Bauer VCXL block batteries. And even when we go handheld we'll only unplug the camera from the block when we're ready to shoot. You can get away without running off blocks but you really need to invest in large on board batteries and those are expensive no matter what camera brand you've bought into.
Fantastic video. As mentioned by others, your candor is greatly appreciated. It just goes back to what you need and not get caught up in the hype. Shoot, I've shot videos with a simple Panasonic GX8 and the video quality is fantastic even in HD. I would like 10-bit color for better color grading. But otherwise, it's completely fine. For the work I've been doing. ;-) Eventually I'll upgrade when the work requires it.
Hey Caleb. Thanks for being honest and "real". I own a C100 mkii also and thought of switching to RED, but I always stick to my Canon cameras because of the things you mentioned in this video. I think there are MANY RED owners in this situation ( do I NEED this camera ). Anyways, good move on selling! I'd like to see a cool documentary or passion project you do with your C100's!!!
All valid points. It really does depend on what you are shooting. Understanding yourself and your own needs is key. We usally shoot commercials, colorgrade everything, and often need to deliver 4K finals, so i love my Monstro and Gemini. As far as batteries go, we bought a dozen 100 MwH V-lock batteries and 2 dual chargers, so we never have battery issues. Good video tho. Well said.
The audio portion of this video was slightly misleading... For those who don't have a RED, this camera DOES have TWO internal microphones that record sound to your R3D & ProRes files, the same as a dslr or other camera. So there is no need for an external recorder unless you want better sound.
The audio from those internal mics are scratch tracks for syncing at best. The fans in the RED over power those mics even on low. If I used that built-in audio it would sound horrible.
Thanks for sharing that experience, Caleb! Hope everything turns out fine on the sale. I'm considering buying a Blackmagic UMP and coming from small mirrorless cameras it's important to consider things like workflow, camera size and weight, etc.
As RED receives more mainstream recognition, can't imagine anyone would want to take it out in public. A payday for thieves, compared to DSLRs , which all seem so commonplace nowadays.
I really appreciate your brutal honesty and giving us some real wisdom about gear. I am still coveting a RED, but im much more ambivalent about getting one due to this vid. You might have saved me $35k !
Great video Caleb, Thank You. I love the concept of red, I personally shoot Sony and have been mainly using 4k but even that takes so much longer to go through my files and then render etc. and totally get the time it takes to get through a workflow with higher formats and so I can feel your pain and can't begin to imagine using a red. I'm sure the flexibility and quality is mind blowing. But then you have audio to deal with out of camera etc. All the best with whatever new product that you choose and Canon are wonderful too, I just ended up buying more glass for Sony and so I stay with that brand now.
Canon C200 is my favorite camera right now. I shot with the Red One on several projects when it first came out. I was definitely a RED fanboy until I saw how Phillip Bloom was treated by the community when he talked about the issues he was having with his RED camera. It was a toxic atmosphere and felt more like a cult then a place to discuss issues with the camera. I ended up trying the Canon C300 and LOVED it. Since then Canon has been my go to camera for most situations. The Dual Pixel autofocus is what keeps me coming back. It's funny that Blackmagic Design delivered on what RED promised for a prosumer 4k camera. If Blackmagic's new RAW codec does what they are saying, it will be a game changer for prosumer RAW recording. You are right though, most cameras out now are good enough for most work.
I assistesed on a Red shoot once, knew straight away it was not the camera for me. You should consider a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4K. $1295 USD, 4K 60p RAW or prores. 1080p RAW @ 120fps, XLR audio BUILT IN TO THE CAMERA. 5" touch screen, BUILT IN. Add a metabones adapter for all your canon glass. It already uses canon LPE6 batteries. I've ordered mine. Can. Not. Wait.
That’s so much money. Especially since you can get 4K for so cheap now. There is no doubt they’re very nice , but damn! Just the accessories are crazy money.
Hey Caleb, great video! The honesty ... what can I say? I have Sony 4k stuff and thought I needed Red for some reason. Won't be spending such thanks to you.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experience with RED. It takes confidence to come forward and share, what you essentially see as a mistake. I sympathise, been considering to get RED for a long time. We all want to improve our selfs and capability's, investing into a new more capable camera system seems to be logical step. Your video has really helped me understand all the other factors involved. Once again, thank you so much for this :)
Easy fix, get a C200! It’s good enough to Commercials, feature films, youtube, raw, slowmo. No need to buy nd filters, it has autofocus, XLR inputs, Cfast cards, SD cards you name it. I saw your other video on the C200 and that’s why I bought mine))))
excellent. i know i know. docs i shoot the z280, i have the red helium system and love it. but you’re right... use the tool best matches your gig. now i’m seriously thinking about the c500 mkii ff - we’ll see. ty again.
We should start a support group.
😂
Or a gofundme
Great video. Love the honesty. So many people think buying a RED instantly means more work and that’s the end of the story. So many other factors go into it.
Indeed, great point of view @caleb.
It's easy to say Red its a great camera but at the end is what makes your work/workflow better.
Next camera? Well why not try a Blackmagic Pocket 4K, you can set an amazing rig for 1/10 of the price, you will have prores and raw, yes its a 4:3 sensor but try a couple lenses and take your own conclusions.
All the best, cheers.
Yup, gear is only a tiny factor of what leads you to getting work!
People usually buy something and get very tribal and defensive about their decision. This is refreshing.
You could of rented out to other DP's or filmmakers
There is a lot of hassles/overheads/risk with renting, not always a good option for everyone.
Great video, love my C200 and agree gear matters less these days as there are so many great options.
Love my c200 also!
What? Gear matters as much as anything. And I sold my C200 for the ursa mini pro. It’s a cool camera but it’s too much
Everyone is a gear hoarder at first.
Its only after you spent too much money, you realize that skill can make any camera look amazing.
I think this is a very good video.... I currently own the Ursa Mini, but I've always wanted RED. For some reason, lusting after the next piece of shiny gear slows down production of projects that could be done with the gear one already owns. I'm going to save this video and watch it everytime I get gear lust. Thanks for sharing your experience.
It's like you got the hottest chick in high school and you're telling us her personality sucks, so you are leaving her. Haha. I get so jealous when I see people with fancy gear, such as this RED. Deep down I know I don't need a RED, but still it makes me feel so behind. This is human nature.. I guess. Gear lust never stops man and I am glad you made this video.
"Human Nature" is also living long enough to grow up and realizing that personality beats looks in the long run - and more often than not, in the short term as well. If you point a RED at shit, it won't look like gold - nor golden shit. It'll be as shitty as if you pointed an a6300 at it instead. Make no mistake, I love gear/cameraporn as much as anyone who's in this industry, but it's important to be able to discern between what looks cool and what's actually useful and affordable.
HA. Thanks Marcos.
The cheerleader was too high maintenance so he's just gonna "she's all that" another camera from chess club?
Haha.. Marcos, we are way behind and shooting on gear 5 years old (or more) D7100's and P7700- we have pushed these cameras beyond the limit..... Though we are thinking - will cleaner image attract more views. By the, we love your channel and that Adjustment Layer trick for FCPX has saved us so much time in editing. Keep up the good work.
Funny analogy! I think it's more accurate to say you got the hottest chick in school, but you were too insecure to handle her, and you felt more comfortable with a beater. Totally fine. Leave pro tools for pro gigs.
Watching this now after almost a year of owning my RED, it hits me. I had always wanted a RED ever since I got into filmmaking at 16 years old (I'm almost 24). I got the opportunity to own a RED and I thought I'd get more work, filming would be better, everything would be better. I do love my red... But having had 25K to spend on either just one camera system, or say... A C200, an aputure 120D MKII... A bigger gimbal, some nicer glass... Nicer lights, etc etc... I wonder if I made a mistake. I have actually only used my camera for paid work like... Twice?... Once?.... Its honestly a shame, but also down to me moving countries and having no reputation and not enough work to show what I can do.
The camera didn't help me get work, that'll always be down to past work and you making the effort to reach out to multiple potential clients.
I'm seriously considering selling the camera and buying a C200 and the 120D MKII and then just saving/investing whatever is left. We gearheads love to collect gear but if we really look at what we need and what we use vs what we want and what we have... I think most of the times there's a lot of excess things we just don't need to have.
Got a big decision to think about. Happy to hear thoughts from others. Thanks for the video man
Wht did you end up doing bro?
@@dna8269 sold the red, bought a pocket 4k and kitted it out. Never been happier
@@Markchristiankc how does the image quality of your 4k compare with the image quality of the red?
So much real talk! Appreciate the authenticity!! ✊🏼
C200 is a solid choice, best camera I've ever owned, love it.
steelej80 you selling it ?
Wow!! I felt dude’s pain and anxiety. It’s not always the coolness of the gear, but the vision, skillfullness and passion of the person holding it that creates some of the best work.
Man, I fully agree with what you said. RED was the "goal" camera, and I do business to business work exclusively. When I rented the RED for the first time and opened the box - all of the hype that I built up myself started to slowly deflate. The modularity of the camera is great for Hollywood, but for a single shooter - it just isn't practical. Great video.
Completely agree, everyone I’ve spoken to who has used a red say exactly what your saying.
We’ve loved our FS7 and now GH5 and BMPCC4K. They’ve completely met our needs and clients needs and will continue to do so for many more years in fact I see the mirrorless cameras doing the majority of our work in future as they are so good.
Very few clients ask us what camera it will be shot on, what they care about is my company delivering a unique creative film for them which does exactly what they need. They don’t care about the tool we use to do it as they trust us enough that what whatever we choose to use it will be perfect for their film.
Thanks for your honesty. Break-ups are hard but when you're in the wrong relationship - you'll feel a lot better once it's behind you 😬! Hope the sale went well today and I'm looking forward to seeing some content from "Caleb Unleashed!"
Thanks for sharing. A lot of stuff here to unpack.
Cant tell if pun intended
“Wow, I’ve never seen a red before.” Lol... I think that’s exactly what I said when I first saw it. Great moral to the video though. The more expensive package isn’t necessarily the right fit for all (even though, expensive gear is definitely fun).
I feel you brother. I was in a similar situation. I had both the Red Epic and Scarlet. The kind of money I spent on building out both cameras, I could have made 2 indie films with that. Red did a fantastic job in branding. Everyone is going of their names. When i realized this, I sold my Red Scarlet and purchased the Blackmagic Ursa with it. Later purchased the Ursa Mini 4.6K and now just ordered the Ursa Pocket 4K. I'm full BMD cameras. Excellent for what I do. I just rent out my Epic Dragon and will be selling it soon because the demand is no longer there, even in rental. There's so much great cameras for cheap these days. So will be selling my Epic Dragon by the end of this year. So I feel your frustration. :-)
I just got a C100 MKII and recorded my first wedding with it. I am extremely happy with how it performed. DPAF was great when using it on a gimbal, and I only had to bring two batteries for a shoot that spanned over a 12 hour day (and two 32GB SD Cards). Didn't have to use high quality internal audio recording for that, but I use it for my personal projects/TH-cam. I've never done any wedding videos before, that one being my first, but after posting some clips of that wedding, I already have two more inquiries for events. My C100 MKII only cost me $2800 (slightly used, body, top grip, side grip, extra battery, charger, and AC adapter) and if I can land these two other events I will already have that camera paid off.
Not trying to make a sell for the C100 MKII, but it goes to show that you don't need the best of the best in 2018, and cameras that are "older" can still produce amazing quality when used correctly.
Totally agree. That's why I'm sticking with my 2 C100II's for a while. Probably at least until NAB.
Only two 32GB SD cards - We had looked at 1 minute of RED footage - it was amazing though 22GB! Maybe we wont bother upgrading our gear..
I love my c100 mk ii.. 90% of my work are done by that camera and the footage looks great! What's crazy is that almost all of my export/deliveries are HD and the clients are always happy with it.
I also started to use the c100 mk II this year and I love the quality and funcionality it has
I own a Helium 8k, I understand where you're coming from. It all depends on the gig, some of my most successful filmmaker friends don't own an ounce of gear. They just rent everything. Keep up the good work. Although, I really do enjoy my RED!
REDs are great, it is just not the camera I need right now. Thank you for watching!
Renting has been the way to go for me as well!
Totally agree. As I have matured in my career, I have found that the TOOL that does THE JOB is so so important. And the notes you said about price point is so important as well. You can now invest that money into lighting, lenses, and whatever else!
This video perfectly explains why the rise of hybrid cameras took place from the Canon 5DmkII all the way to the GH5s now; portability, ergonomics and bang for your buck. I'm investing in the Blackmagic Pocket for narrative work, but I'm sure I'll end up with a GH5 or a C100 for run and gun in the future too, they're both so versatile and user friendly.
My FS5m2 does everything I need plus expand into the prores raw cinema space. What I love about it are the ergonomics. It may no longer have the specs on paper that other newer cams have out of the box, but the usability and accessibility this can provides is incredible.
My goodness what a heartbreaking and sad video to watch. Very well produced and honest though. As I prepare to buy my first RED camera, it hurts my heart to see so many videos like this. They all have the same common themes. I'm glad you found your way forward and got something that works better for you.
Thanks for the video. I want to share my setup: I have a used sony fs700 and an atomos shofun inferno. You can buy that for ~$3000 in total. And it is a 4k60 raw machine with 2k240 option as well.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I debated buying the URSA Mini Pro vs the Red Scarlet-W. I ended getting the URSA since I could not figure out how I would get my money back with Red. Plus, the URSA has more features I need to speed up production. This video needs to be shared to those thinking of buying Red.
I wish Red would come out with a budget kit that is comparable to the C200/Mini Ursa/FS7 range. They just seem like they have to nickle and dime you at every step of the process.
Its looks like thats on there roadmap. I would guess we see something before 2019 is over.
They won't, they tried it with the Raven and it got super crazy, they were so backedup that they were delivering their orders year and a half after being placed. They had to discontinue the whole thing and since they have really bad costumer service well, I doubt they'll ever go back to doing that again.
There have been a few articles that said they’re working with Foxconn (who makes the iPhone apparently) to produce something like that. Here’s to hoping we get that.
This is super encouraging. Thanks for being so transparent.
I use a gh5 for nearly everything I shoot now. No rig, no external battery, no matte box, no other extras other than an Atomos Ninja. With the ibis in camera I shoot mostly hand held. My work has improved as a result. I get about 3 times more shots from better angles than I used to when using a bigger rigged camera.
I've been considering that set up. What do you do for audio?
THE GH5 IS ONE OF THE BEST AND VERSATILE DSLR CAMERA OUT THERE RIGHT NOW...
Hugh Sweeney i’ve worked with the gh5 and red a lot and both cameras are great but at the end of the day it’s a tool. If you need run and gun, go for the gh5. If image quality is your priority and you have a crew, go for the red.
I absolutely love the red and have in the past tried to build my gh5 out into a red like camera but it gets too complex with too many parts and still just doesn’t compare to a red.
Also, editing 8k red footage is easier on my rig than editing gh5 anamorphic footage... that compression just eats through your cpu
Red is not for Videography, its for filmmaking
Totally, Timo.
THIS exactly. I can’t stand all the youtubers and random short film kids thinking Red is the answer. It’s for creating cinema quality work, not sterile videography work. People don’t seem to understand that and that’s why they get these cameras and instantly feel regret.
Even for cinema Red workflow and setup kinda sucks and even so that's no excuse for bad design
It is a total waste of money. Buy a Blackmagic and you get Da Vinci Reslove and you got it. Even a pocket 4K is way better than this piece of crap.
EXACTLY. "Hey I got this Ferrari, but I find that I never use it on the ranch...WTF."
The "Cinema" level cameras I am looking at are the Kinefinty ones. They seem to be a nice in between of a C100 or C200 and a RED, and for a fraction of a cost of the RED. Great video, and great points! Always been a dream to own a RED, but there are so many options out there now!
they look a lot like high end film equipment with reasonable price tag but i still have to wait any film or shortfilms using it
Jump on vimeo or look around on youtube, plenty of footage shot with Kinefinity cameras now!
The RAW HONESTY in this video is waaaay off the charts! Hats off to you for choosing to be so vulnerable, bro!
I like the fact that you are not Dissing RED, but just sharing your own compatibility issues with your business model vs the camera.
this is what I try and explain to people every time someone tells me they want a RED!
No one uses redvolt batteries for real work. I use them so the camera don’t shuts down when changing batteries. Also, most professional productions don’t use in camera audio. You can send a cable from the audio village, or you can use a cheap mic to record reference audio so you can sync automatically, but professional audio always records separately.
Your problem is that what you do for living doesn’t requiere a Red Camera, and you can not afford it. You need a hell of a lot more than what you bought. And you need a crew, specially a focus puller and a good follow focus and a matte box.
For what you do, stay with DSLR, mirrorless or video cameras, is gonna be easier, cheaper to do it. Digital cinema cameras are for Tv Series, Films, Commercials, etc. And yes, you do need a crew.
I’m a cinematographer, and always shoot on RED or Alexa, I have 2 feature films and about 6 tv series shot on RED, and actually have never used a DSLR or small camera for video. And just got asked to shot a corporate video by a friend of the family, and could have asked to shoot it on RED, or even in Blackmagic Ursa Mini 4.6k if I want it cheaper, but I decide to try a mirrorless, I bought a Sony A7riii, and rented a A7Sii, and shot it with those two and a gimbal, and I couldn’t be happier! It way easier using those small cameras, they’re a lot more sensitive to light, lighter, using the gimbal is a breeze, and having perfect auto focus is a most! I would put change them to so small video shoots, even music videos. But I wouldn’t use them to shoot fiction, it will take more time to do it that way, and you’ll need to buy or rent a ton of equipment for the camera, like tripods, wireless follow focus, matte boxes, etc... that the price of the camera is irrelevant.
So yeah, stick to what works for you.
I love the honesty. We as video producers sometimes aspire towards owning the most expensive and admired tools only to realize they don't fit our needs. I'm content with my C100 and happy to hear so many others here realizing the same thing.
This is an extremely well communicated circumstance. I really love your presentation style.
Wooden camera - A-box audio solution :P Also you can get an ND Red PL or EF Mount.
For corporate videos, events and interviews, the Red is overkill. It's meant for commercial, narrative and high end documentary work. Most small clients won't care about the model or camera as much.
I was torn between the Raven and C200. The deal breaker was built-in ND and built-in XLR. Those 2 things are a must have especially if you’re a one man band. So happy with the C200, RAW Lite is a simply gorgeous image.
Thank you for sharing this experience! I agree, I love the C100 just because it a device that actually helps you in shooting. It's like your mini assistant.
Amazing video, we often get more focused on gear rather than being creative with and fully utilizing what we already have. I often try to get used gear of an older generation if I can, you are right most any camera today is good enough to allow us to be creative. Cameras are just tools and the artist eye and vision makes all the difference. The most expensive or tech heavy camera is not always the best, the camera that makes us want to get out there and shoot and allows us to execute our creative vision is the best.
I have suffered a great deal from Gear Owning & Continually Buying Addiction for several years and I know EXACTLY where you are coming from Caleb ! Thumbs up for YOU good man ! You have dared to PURGE yourself of the tentacles of your addiction !!! The Canon C200 and Red 4K have gone head to head in many TH-cam videos I have seen, and in most (But not all) cases, the Canon RAW Lite codec @ 12 Bit 4K DCI spec (4096 x 2160) on the C200 held redeemable information in the blown out areas and too dark areas of the image just like the RED 4K camera did, but not like a Red 6K or 8K did. I must say the results from the Canon C200 @ 10 Bit 4:2:2 look amazing, and the colour precison of the C200 @ 12 bit is strikingly good. The C200 in Davinci Resolve with a good timer can image and density match the footage to RED RAW, and few could tell the difference.
Thank you Caleb! I've bought and sold gear too - great to hear the entire process you went through with this investment. Thanks again!
I study film editing and have had the same issues. My question for me "what type of camera should "I" buy. Man !!!! This is a huge topic.
A tip for whom would like to buy a camera: learn film editing.
I was just about to pull the trigger on purchasing the Red but not after watching this video Thanks for saving me a shit load of unnecessary expenses i didn't take into consideration at all. I got so wrapped up in the hype of the brand name,
They are great cameras, no doubt, but depending on your filming situation (team size) and what you're filming they can be much harder to use.
Watching this video when it was first released vs now (mid 23), it's definitely good advice at the time and still remains solid. When you think about the acceleration of video specs in the past 10 years, and the price of gear dropping, making content is king. Sure having a red means clients will be momentarily impressed, but showreel and experience trumps all.
For years, a RED has been at the top of my dream gear list. But I shoot documentaries and events that require lightweight gear with a lot of speed and agility, so I've made do with mirrorless cameras and put up with their codecs. Watching this helps keep my RED fantasies at bay.
I wish more people were as honest about their red cameras. For so many it can be the end goal just to own a red without actually thinking what they will use it for. We had the dilemma a year or so ago and ended up getting an FS7 because it fitted us better for where we were at as a company. Not ruling out a red purchase in the future but it’s so easy to be hypnotised by the prestige associated with owning one without taking a step back and thinking about the outlay. There’s always the rental house in the mean time! Great video!
Caleb, really honest and fully advice comments.Of course now that we're late 2020, my question would be: Would you finally go back to RED, now that the Komodo is available?
Really appreciated the honesty and I 100% agree that RED is not for everyone. Personally being a RED owner I feel like the best way (how I did it anyway) of purchasing a RED is purchasing a good quality second hand one. I paid about 18k AUD (about 11k USD) for a my Scarlet W kit. Came with all the part Caleb has (apart from it came with V mount batteries, and it was a 5inch monitor) and I feel like it worth every penny of the price. C200 are absolutely great cameras, but I still feel like it’s no comparison for the RED image wise.
I'm still shooting on a couple of Sony PMW-F3! Have a few times talked them into realizing this makes more sense than shooting on one RED
I like the C100ii since it's more in my price range, but I've been wondering if I should not get it and get a better camera that is more "future proof."
I relate to this a bit using the GH5 and GH5s with little M4/3 lens, while leaving the C100MKII at home with the giant glass.
Been debating getting into Red, so thanks for this👍
You're welcome Flynn.
Really good speech Caleb! I learned so much, but most important this is comparable to other material things too, don't just think twice and buy in when it's such huge amount! :-]
Really a great rundown and I appreciate the honesty. It’s easy to feel the need to justify such a large purchase, but you’ve confirmed a lot of what I suspected about RED. I keep hearing people say the best filming experience they had was on the C100 mk2, and it’s shocking how well it’s held up in the world of exponential technology advancement. I’m really intrigued by the new Blackmagic cameras and their raw feature, could be a game changer!
Yeah, if Canon could make a C100 III for $4,000 I think it would sell a lot. (Remove RAW from C200, remove SDI, other features.) I just think they go slow and steady with cinema releases and the C200 is a great upgrade for anyone who wants 4K.
I love the hell out of my Ursa Mini 4.6k-even before the newer raw-old Raw was still very good. but so is ProRes with the film gamma.
I feel like the Ursa Mini addresses all of these complaints except autofocus, but especially the price.
All totally valid points, but I just can't shake how much we love working with red footage in post.
By a large black curtain or black blanket to cover your equipment .That's what i do in Hawaii with my carpentry equipment and so far nothing has been stolen yet. Awesome video content! Thanks for sharing.
Same boat although I have been lucky enough to have had REDs for free on loan. Last year, I had a RED Epic on loan for a month, I used it for a few client shoots. I had not used a RED since the MX One days and I have to say, my experience echoed yours in many ways. REDs are made for crewed productions, period, they are terrible for documentary and run & gun shooting. You can use them for that but they are the wrong tool for that kind of shooting.
I was also surprised at how weird a lot of the RED workflow issues with the camera were, black shading for shooting high resolution took over an hour?!?! The first Epic they gave me had a defect so they had to swap it out. I was also amazed at how much noise and grain was present in the image even at just ISO 800, the REDs, at least the non-Gemini, are terrible in low light. REDs, obviously, with a crew, good lighting, look amazing. They are just the wrong tool for many of us. Production in general has gotten smaller, leaner, and the RED workflow is the antithesis of this new style.
Be careful what you wish for because you might get it. I have the C200 as our A camera now and it's been great and has already paid for itself. Cinema RAW Light is a decent format that most editing programs now support. It could be better but it's pretty good quality for a $7,500.00 camera. Super easy to shoot with too compared to a RED.
What could be better to you on the c200 besides 10 bit?
Honestly, We shoot with the C300 MKII quite a bit but don't own it but I don't miss the 10-bit codec at all. I prefer to shoot RAW when I really care about what I want the image to look like. The C200 is a RAW camera, I just think about the 8-bit 4:2:0 as a proxy or for low end shoots. Most of our clients are perfectly happy with the 8-bit 4:2:0. The C200 is smaller than the C300 MK II, lighter, better screen, on-body XLRs are great compared to the kludge on the C300 MKII clamshell.
All of the things we want for the C200? Mostly operational issues that could be fixed through firmware but Canon hasn't yet addressed them. It sucks that you can only output from HDMI OR SDI, not both at the same time. SDI is 1080/2k only, should output UHD. The C100 MKI had a function where you could just stab the joystick on the handle to access the quick menu selections, C200 doesn't do that and it should. Also, remember, when shoot 24, 25 or 30p in RAW, it's 12-bit. I wish the buttons lit up like the C300 MKII buttons do. Also HATE that you can only shoot RAW DCI. I hate DCI, all of my EF-S lenses vignette like crazy in 17:9 CDI but look fine in 16:9 UHD. Who the hell wants or needs DCI, hardly anyone, for us, it's just a nuisance. Please, please enable CRL in UD, 2k and 1080 Canon, are you listening?
But overall, a year in, C200 has been a GREAT camera, very few deep complaints, but a lot of little things are annoying.
I think the obvious best option is an Ursa Pro G2. You’re getting pretty much everything from the Raven and more for a third of what you paid for the Scarlet and it addresses 90% of the problems you mentioned. I’ve rented ursa’s on projects for years now and love them. I’m finally buying one soon as well!
when FOMO meets GAS a lot of people buy stuff they don't need :)
you can always rent one if you need it.
Step 1. I have a Red problem. Thanks for sharing. No judgement.
Almost exactly the same reasons I sold mine. I realized I had left my Scarlet Dragon at the studio for 6 months because it was too hard to use on the quick shoots we were doing.
As a C200 owner, who's been working with both the RED line and the C-series line of cameras, I'd suggest you to try out both the C200 and C300MKII For a couple of weeks before you end up deciding which one to get. For me, it was pretty obvious which one to get, and that's because I did a ton of web-based content, which I knew would be viewed on phones and tablets, and the MP4 format of the C200 was perfect. I didn't have the most powerful workstation, so having the format that didn't strain my iMac was really great, and then having the possibility to shoot RAW for the narrative work, where there's an offline/online workflow, and getting to utilize the 4K 12 bit raw was great. That being said, the C200 is quirky as heck! But I respect Canons decision to make it like that, since they have to protect their workhorse C300MKII. I wish it wasn't the case, but can't do anything about it... Doing anything that relates to television or multi-camera, the C300 is the way to go. Timecode, better mid-range format which is still really great compared to the C200 RAW, and the possibility to fine tune every part of the recording settings and everything that has to do with image quality is so much more expanded on the C300. The C200 could almost feel like a trial version of the C300. The "Max" setting for both fps and resolution is the same, or even greater on C200, but the C300 lets you fine tune everything. So having worked with both, I tend to feel limited by the C200, though in some instances it would deliver a greater image than the C300.
Thanks for the input Dovydas. I've used both of them quite a bit. Tested and used the C300 II before deciding on RED. And rented the C200 to review it after I had my RED for a while. I think C200 is enough since what I do isn't broadcast.
You've echoed so many of the same thoughts I frequently share with others on why I'd never personally own a RED camera. The proprietary nature of the accessories alone is enough to make it unjustifiable from a value perspective. And there are so many cameras now at lower price points with great image quality. I mean damn the Blackmagic Pocket 4k is 1300 and shoots RAW internally and has an XLR input. lol
Also, at the end of the day, lighting and art direction are much more influential to the final "look" of an image than the camera is. Money is better spent on that imo.
I barely touch my RED but I'm too pretentious to get rid of it
lol
which red do you have, i have a BLUE camera
Matthew Paquette can plz have it im trying to be a film maker but can’t afford a average quality I still ise Nikon 3200 so y’all lucky
TWG GOAT you can do it! Keep working hard! You’ll get there! I know you can!
@@dboyentertainment6503 ill give you mine
I have the same camera, and am almost in the same boat. Love it to death, which is why I'm hanging onto it. But I think I will be selling before it depreciates more. And it's not necessarily the best fit for my career at present.
Nice vid.
Such a honest video. Thank you Sir for this one!
Glad it was helpful!
it takes courage to express your experience and decision in the first place, so thanks for that.
As you said, it's for higher end production with big crews. But it's a bad one on your behalf.
Rent the new bmpc or the C300 which you are familiar with.
Goodluck mate
I met a RED team when they were wrapping up shoots for a commercial at a cafe and chatted/annoyed them. Realizing how heavy things were, how big team for one camera, always having one person guarding the camera etc, I started to realize that dream camera would be horrible for single shooter, run and gun. Might be great for a team requiring stellar image over all other aspects, but would never fit my style even if I could afford it.
Preach!!! truly one of the best reviews on TUBE.. you always just tell it like it is.
You just saved me about £15k. Thank you.
I have a C200 and love it’s. The raw footage is so good for grading and the 1080 is great when doing internet stuff or low budget stuff. Also the auto focus makes t great for one man band situations. Good luck with everything man!
Thank you for this honest review. Too often people focus on gear and I am guilty of lusting over RED cameras. Your video puts it back into perspective to focus on what type of content you shoot and I always film alone as well. I'm happy with my Sony system.
Fascinating Caleb. I've used all the same cameras. Interesting you actually enjoy using the Canon C series cameras. I dread using them compared to small mirrorless options like the GH5 and Sony A7 series. For the exact same reasons as you dislike the Red. Size, complexity and most importantly speed of operation. If it was a competition, no question the GH5 is the easiest handling video camera yet created. Your shot rate is guaranteed to be highest on a GH5. It's basically all sacrifices from there. Every step you take to increase image quality over the GH5, decreases your shot rate and convenience. It really comes down to your priority. I prioritize number of useable angles and convenience. Some prioritize pure quality. If you're a single operator, definitely chose the faster shooting option. If you have a full crew then obviously you can afford to significantly reduce your shot rate. Think of it in pure math. How many quality shots could you provide the editor/client on a one hour shoot? With the GH5 I could genuinely deliver over 50 if the shoot dictated it. That's nearly one quality shot a minute. On an Alexa I'd struggle to do 20. Same with Red. Bin the ego, use science, select the best camera for the work you do, not the work you wish you did...
Not sure why you bought this camera in the first place, but it’s clearly the wrong tool for what you do. Appreciate the honesty tho, there are still plenty of people that own a RED and all they do are weddings or tech reviews which is absolutely ridiculous. A basic mirrorless would be totally ok for that kind of stuff. I think owning a RED or an Arri make sense if you shoot commercials or films and you are booked once a week and your client requires that kind of camera. That’s about it. Good luck!
I don't really share much about my client work on TH-cam, which is what I used this camera for mainly, not just tech reviews. No weddings.
When I bought it I was thinking I wanted to DP more and move into agency work, but I haven't really done that. I have learned a ton about using a RED though, so I could now easily use the system as a rental and be really comfortable.
Caleb Wojcik gotcha!
Hey Matteo, for my 50th (which is in a couple of days) I had dreamed of this camera.. After chatting with you - it was clear that was not the tool for us - as much as I thought -wow, maybe my sucky work would look less sucky. We know that is not true. ..
Thought I'd tune in on this conversation. A nice car will get nice clients faster than a nice camera. Put your money into the first impressions of your company. When a client sees you get out of a nice rig, they know they'll have to pay for it. When you step out of a Gremlin... they know they have you by the family jewels. I own Blackmagic cameras. If they actually ask what kind of camera I'm shooting on I simply say, "Anything you want me to shoot on." Then, when they see the line item, they're usually good with Blackmagic hahaha.
Thoughts :
- My clients don't need or ask for 4K : *Finally someone gets that. We don't need to deliver in 4K, at least for another 3-5 years, to most clients, even TVs (there are like, 5 TV channels in 4K, or something) and true 4K streaming doesn't exist.
- I don't end up taking it because I worry about it getting stolen and it's so heavy : .... well I dunno what to say. That's an high-end production camera, that's not a camera you "take" with you to go for a walk. It's ain't supposed to be. As for stealing, never let your camera out of sight ever, attach your bag straps to a table or a chair if you're in a public and carrying around is a pain... but I even carry my camera bag to the bathroom. No kidding. There really nothing you can do about it, you *have* to be come a little paranoid. My dad have been in this game for over 40 years and he's... ya know, you become kinda weird ;)
- The batteries only last an hour :...what?! You bough all the fancy expensive add-ons but you didn't bough the V-mount plate adapter? Oh c'mon now. Nobody use cameras like this without V-mount or Gold-mount batteries. There simply isn't enough juice in any other solution. RED proprietary batteries are a joke.
- No autofocus : again, at the risk of sounding like a dick, it you want a small camera with autofocus, there are plenty of options out there that are perfect for that. A RED is NOT that, but a RED is great at what it does.
- I find the image is really noisy : No, it's not. It's have a certain grit to it, which makes it the camera of choice for many sci-fi movies. Having said that, it's a cinema camera. The low-light capabilities are simply not the same as a good mirrorless. The sensor is totally different. It you don't light up extensively and shoot low-light, forget about using a camera like this.
- Filming with it is just slower and more work : it sure is. If you don't need RAW, there's really no reason why you should be buying this.
(next three points are all related to each other)
- No built-in ND filters : well, sure, but then again, this is clearly not a camera for run and gun work, never will and never was. So if you wanted a run and gun camera... WHY did you bough a RED? :P
- No built-in XLRs : True, because it's modular. You only need XLR when working on single system. Which ain't the case (most) of the time you use a camera like this, because you have timecode and a sound guy. The production module gives you more IO than just about anything on the market tho.
- 1750$ for mic input jack and consumers connections : I agree, this is lame. But then again... an input jack and consumer connections on a RED? Why the hell would they even bother putting connections like this on a cinema camera? They're just NOT sturdy enough for set. I've seen a camera getting dragged from an SDI connection, and didn't give up. An HDMI would have cut in half, and the head would've have got stuck in there.
My guess for this is that RED saw that some people fell for the marketing who had different needs, so they made that product for them.
- Hybrid cameras : I feel you, I love them. So why the hell did you bough a RED is beyond me if you don't work on sets but OK...
- Would get a lot of cash back : yes and no. The RED module is amazing for freelance DPs working on set, *because of the modularity*. You start with a brain and basic accessories. Then you can upgrade to an Arri PL mount if you work more on cinema. You can upgrade to the touch screen if you actually feel like you need a touch screen (ya know, before putting 3K down on it because you "need" it - although it's practical for sure). You can add the XLR, SDI, D-Tap connections *when you need them later on*.
So actually you're not supposed to invest in all the accessories at the same time.
Yes it's a lot of money.. but regarding being a business owner, plenty of people in unions are business owners, too. They rent their own gear to the production company. My dad have well over 100K in gear. But he have well over 30 years of experience! You accumulate gear over the years, a lot of it that can be used across the board (tripods and stands, adapters, V-mount batteries, monitors, follow-focus, etc).
All in all, I feel like a lot of people who don't need a RED at all fell into their marketing and coolness factor. I won't be needing one myself until I'M 10-15 years full-time in the game on cinema sets.
For now I love my Olympus and shoots 1080p because for my personal projects I don't need a cinema camera. Thanks for the honesty tho :)
What great lesson. I have been there with "the latest gear", in the end it hardly matters. I have just switched my still camera to one I tested 10 years ago and thought was astounding. Tried all the other latest models, but the results I get from the old one are still good. All you said in this video, would have driven me daft, good luck in the future.
I appreciate your honesty and transparency. Really good info as I'm at a crossroads right now with what camera gear invest in or not. I think I'll stick with my C200 after watching this. Thank you!
Wow, some definite honesty here. The reality is with each passing day we're getting better and better cameras for less and less. The Red carries with it an unmistakable mystique; like showing up to a graduation party in a Ferrari. But like the car, it's endless $ for the performance and it's finicky to boot.
Did the same mistake! Thought I need one of those high end cameras, but I didn’t have any customer who cares about it. It’s definitely an overkill for a small group of shooters. I ended up with a C200 and I am really really happy about it. It’s really great quality for a good price.
Just because you can outfit a Red with handles doesn't mean you can operate it like a mirrorless camera, they're still very studio oriented cameras. On a union show we'll have at least 10 Anton Bauer VCXL block batteries. And even when we go handheld we'll only unplug the camera from the block when we're ready to shoot. You can get away without running off blocks but you really need to invest in large on board batteries and those are expensive no matter what camera brand you've bought into.
Fantastic video. As mentioned by others, your candor is greatly appreciated.
It just goes back to what you need and not get caught up in the hype. Shoot, I've shot videos with a simple Panasonic GX8 and the video quality is fantastic even in HD. I would like 10-bit color for better color grading. But otherwise, it's completely fine. For the work I've been doing. ;-) Eventually I'll upgrade when the work requires it.
Hey Caleb. Thanks for being honest and "real". I own a C100 mkii also and thought of switching to RED, but I always stick to my Canon cameras because of the things you mentioned in this video. I think there are MANY RED owners in this situation ( do I NEED this camera ). Anyways, good move on selling! I'd like to see a cool documentary or passion project you do with your C100's!!!
All valid points. It really does depend on what you are shooting. Understanding yourself and your own needs is key. We usally shoot commercials, colorgrade everything, and often need to deliver 4K finals, so i love my Monstro and Gemini. As far as batteries go, we bought a dozen 100 MwH V-lock batteries and 2 dual chargers, so we never have battery issues. Good video tho. Well said.
The audio portion of this video was slightly misleading... For those who don't have a RED, this camera DOES have TWO internal microphones that record sound to your R3D & ProRes files, the same as a dslr or other camera. So there is no need for an external recorder unless you want better sound.
The audio from those internal mics are scratch tracks for syncing at best. The fans in the RED over power those mics even on low. If I used that built-in audio it would sound horrible.
Thanks for sharing that experience, Caleb! Hope everything turns out fine on the sale.
I'm considering buying a Blackmagic UMP and coming from small mirrorless cameras it's important to consider things like workflow, camera size and weight, etc.
As RED receives more mainstream recognition, can't imagine anyone would want to take it out in public. A payday for thieves, compared to DSLRs , which all seem so commonplace nowadays.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. It’s a very valuable insight and worth asking in a very gear-acquisition-heavy filmmaking world.
I really appreciate your brutal honesty and giving us some real wisdom about gear. I am still coveting a RED, but im much more ambivalent about getting one due to this vid. You might have saved me $35k !
Great video Caleb, Thank You.
I love the concept of red, I personally shoot Sony and have been mainly using 4k but even that takes so much longer to go through my files and then render etc. and totally get the time it takes to get through a workflow with higher formats and so I can feel your pain and can't begin to imagine using a red. I'm sure the flexibility and quality is mind blowing. But then you have audio to deal with out of camera etc. All the best with whatever new product that you choose and Canon are wonderful too, I just ended up buying more glass for Sony and so I stay with that brand now.
Canon C200 is my favorite camera right now. I shot with the Red One on several projects when it first came out. I was definitely a RED fanboy until I saw how Phillip Bloom was treated by the community when he talked about the issues he was having with his RED camera. It was a toxic atmosphere and felt more like a cult then a place to discuss issues with the camera. I ended up trying the Canon C300 and LOVED it. Since then Canon has been my go to camera for most situations. The Dual Pixel autofocus is what keeps me coming back. It's funny that Blackmagic Design delivered on what RED promised for a prosumer 4k camera. If Blackmagic's new RAW codec does what they are saying, it will be a game changer for prosumer RAW recording. You are right though, most cameras out now are good enough for most work.
It's so vital to know your needs going in, and to do the research. Cinema cameras are not for vlogging.
I assistesed on a Red shoot once, knew straight away it was not the camera for me. You should consider a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4K. $1295 USD, 4K 60p RAW or prores. 1080p RAW @ 120fps, XLR audio BUILT IN TO THE CAMERA. 5" touch screen, BUILT IN. Add a metabones adapter for all your canon glass. It already uses canon LPE6 batteries. I've ordered mine. Can. Not. Wait.
That’s so much money. Especially since you can get 4K for so cheap now. There is no doubt they’re very nice , but damn! Just the accessories are crazy money.
Hey Caleb, great video! The honesty ... what can I say? I have Sony 4k stuff and thought I needed Red for some reason. Won't be spending such thanks to you.
I only use V mounts for the Red, solved the price and the run time issue.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experience with RED. It takes confidence to come forward and share, what you essentially see as a mistake. I sympathise, been considering to get RED for a long time. We all want to improve our selfs and capability's, investing into a new more capable camera system seems to be logical step. Your video has really helped me understand all the other factors involved. Once again, thank you so much for this :)
You're welcome Egill. Thanks for the kind words.
Yeah, value-per-performance dollars count. Yeah, just keep the cash as retained earnings just in case the building burns down. You never know.
Hi this is Reagan and i’d like ask a question about Red epic Mx and red scarlet Mx. Can I used the canon lens and atomos ninja v with in?
Easy fix, get a C200! It’s good enough to Commercials, feature films, youtube, raw, slowmo. No need to buy nd filters, it has autofocus, XLR inputs, Cfast cards, SD cards you name it. I saw your other video on the C200 and that’s why I bought mine))))
I think you’ll be fine with a c200 and a BMPCC4K. Both have raw capability if you want to use it, and the blackmagic is smaller
excellent. i know i know. docs i shoot the z280, i have the red helium system and love it. but you’re right... use the tool best matches your gig. now i’m seriously thinking about the c500 mkii ff - we’ll see. ty again.