Canon C200 Vs RED Helium 8K Test - Is RED Really Better?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- We put the Canon C200 against the RED Helium 8K to find out if it's really better than the C200?
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Make sure to watch: $40K RED 8K Helium Vs $7K Canon C200 - Why I own both Cameras: • Video
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#CanonC200 #REDHelium8K #REDCinema
You can buy the C200 to Arri Alexa Lut here: sellfy.com/p/3Hxb/
This is nice
I like these comparisons. If you're game, I'd like to take a crack at making the C200 match the Red footage. I just need 5 seconds of each. My background: digital supervisor at Disney and Imax projects. In 2003, my company created the world's first large format digital intermediate for an entire IMAX feature. One more test I'd like to see re focus pulls: I'd like to compare barrel distortion between the cameras racking from a BG character to a FG character (mostly to test the lenses and any artifacting).
@@scottsimmons6814 Send me an E-mail: armando@mondobytes.com
I did and it's great!
I sent you an email a few days ago... Let me know. Thx.@@mondobytes
I work hand-in-hand with several video production teams - our main crew and guest crews from Discovery Channel or privately hired. Canon C100, C200, and C300 cameras are outrageously popular. Our video guy last year switched to Canon as well and he's now rocking a pair of M50s and a C200. You literally turn the camera on, find the subject you want to focus on and rock and roll. So, from my observations, run-and-gun crews are using Canon. I'm also referring to "run-and-gun" appropriately and not as a catch phrase people like to throw out there. Setup time in my particular wing of the industry - motorsports - is the most crucial element next to reliability and Canon really delivers in both departments.
Also, you can make any camera look like a professional camera and people will take you 10x more seriously by simply putting on a mattebox.
Sooo, I guess im going to get a mattebox to look more professional.
Absolutely. Zacuto proved that more than 5 years ago when they did a related comparison of the various cameras from an iPhone to the Arri. Although in their test it was lighting that was the great equalizer. In the final results, not even the pros could tell which camera was which.
Yeah... that doesn't work forever.
Though, If you're stuck using a DSLR in a corporate/professional environment where the client sees you; you probably should try to build up your camera. It does helps.
Lol Yep i use to do that all the time back in 2016-17..
Put two matteboxes on for DOUBLE the professionalism!
Yup spend all that $$$ ...but still a shitty photographer...but soneone with a basic phone..makes shoots look amazing ..
So much truth spoken in this video 👊
Honeslty, the Red looked so much better. The Arri and the C200 matched, but the Red just smokes them.
@@joshmvfx red is worst highend film camera
@@starnutron6147 all marvel is filming on red , u are wrong arri is a litlle bit better on color but they are much more cumbersome so there is no winner it is to choose according to the needs , it's like apple / samsung all time guys like u saying one or the over is better ....
@@jokerda8857 hmmm
@@jokerda8857 now I know the whole story
Do an Black Magic URSA Mini Pro comparison next!
Hell yeah, and throw in a Kinefinity Terra 4K as well into the mix!
Great video Armando. I’ve been working in the filmmaking world since I was 10 years old. I’m in my 40s now. During that time until now, I shot on celluloid, went to college, made a few indies, shot all over the globe, worked and film in L.A., worked with the teamsters, and ran media and communications for companies.
You’re spot on with this analysis. Most independent guys don’t need Reds or Arri’s. Those are union/full film crew cameras. You need so many components that you that “Cinematic” feel - good lighting, sound, focus puller, grips and rail operators, etc. - because those cams were made to pick up all the books and crannies those above mentioned crew members help accentuate.
And while you CAN use a Red or Arri on every day productions, it’s just a waste of money because: A) It’ll pick up the same everyday non-set images the same as a C200, GH5, Blackmagic 4K or 6K, and A7 series cams can with insignificant differences, B) The differences, as I aforementioned will go unnoticed to 99% of people watching. Major studios have either in-house or major contracted colorist houses (with highly trained professionals) that can make an film shot on the iPhone look like it was shot on 70mm film stock.
Only real pixel peepers and those who know what Dynamic Range is (aka people who know about cinematography) will notice, and even then we won’t complain. Truth be told, we WOULDN’T even know, if TH-camrs didn’t make videos about the differences (I mean no offense BTW) between the cameras.
Actually, we’d applaud the fact the C200s, GH5s, Blackmagics, and A7 series cams were used in a mainstream film.
And with Luts like the GHAlex, and other Arri conversion LUTS for a variety of cameras to emulate the Arri look, that gap is closing.
Frank Davis thanks for the comment you're spot on, like you said and I agree if TH-cam didn't exist we wouldn't care about specs but rather just going out and filming
Hey Armando,
thanks a lot for this video an the effort you put into it. I agree with you completely in every point!
As an owner of an RED Epic-W with the Helium 8K sensor, I would like to add just those two points.
6:48 booting my Epic-W up takes about 30 seconds. Maybe that one you used was on an older firmware. Yes, it has to warm up to get the 100% best image quality, but even with a "cold" sensor the quality is not extremely worse, so if you need to, you can record directly after booting up.
6:53 Blackshading a RED Camera is only needed after upgrading the firmware, when the temperature changes a lot and when you chose a longer exposure. So everytime blackshading after booting up is simply time and battery wasting.
It's not a critique, it' just an additional information which is based on my experience. I use the RED sometimes as a run an gun option. For example I did a wedding with it, so I had to make sure to get the camera running very quickly when something important happened. It worked very finde. But yeah you're right, the C200 would have made a lot more sense in that situation.
Best regards,
Daniel / Fördy
Hey Daniel, thanks for commenting. When I asked Carlos about the boot time he said it takes about 1-2 minutes. Since I don't own one and he's had a RED for almost 3 years I was just relaying that information. I can confirm he does have the least firmware too.
I've heard different stories about black shading the sensor, some say you should do it after every shot (which I think is ridiculous) others say when switching from one environment to another and other say just at the beginning of each shoot. I guess it's one of those questions like "how often should I change my oil" lol. In any case, just thought it was worth mentioning since the C200 fires up right away and is literally ready to shoot in under 5 seconds.
@@mondobytes on the official RED TH-cam channel, there are "red tech" tutorial videos and this one is about black shading: th-cam.com/video/IM3epUuxxxg/w-d-xo.html
In that video the guy from RED says clearly that blackshading the camera at the beginning of each shoot isn't necessary.
"just thought it was worth mentioning since the C200 fires up right away and is literally ready to shoot in under 5 seconds."
Hold on, DSMC2 Red bodies take about 17 seconds to start up. It feels like a eternity on set but it's definately not 2 minutes =D
And you don’t need to black shade. Only if you change environment to very hot or cold. And even there you can generate presests before.
LOVE the gaff tape "matte box" holding the ND filter on the RED! I'm not saying I've ever done that, but I have! Hahaha!
I'm so sick of people harping on AF. Thanks for bringing it up. I can't hold my DSLR, do something with one hand, and have it all in focus without it. I can't film myself without it. DPAF is a lifesaver.
Underrated!
Hey Armando, What about a comparison of the C200 to an older 4k or 5k RED camera like a Scarlet-X. Those can be found as ready to shoot packages on eaby for around the same price as the C200.
The raven package is about 8K used.. only about $500-800 more than a used c200
@@theyoungtravelier But you can get the Mysterium sensor cameras for around 5 grand as a full package.
@@theyoungtravelier But you can get the Mysterium sensor cameras for around 5 grand as a full package.
@@theyoungtravelier yes im still interested in this answer
Wow, in direct comparison the RED is so much sharper that the Canon almost looks out of focus. But I wouldn't probably notice it if I don't see them side by side .
Perfect timing for me and completely agree. Great test and comments Armando. Sold my RED 5 months ago and I'm getting a C200 to replace it now. 😀
Did you watch the video? The c200 looked awful compared to the Helium...
Josh Meade Yes, I watched the video and for the price difference it doesn’t look 5 times better.
Caleb Wojcik honestly to me it looks 5 times better 😂😂
@@joshmvfx Are you sure you are not a Sony fanboy in disguise, jealous because a Sony is not getting talked about? You sure sound that way.
C200 is a great cam. But pure IQ wise doesn’t even look close. Especially if you shoot product.. it renders highlights better than almost everything out there under the Venice
The dynamic range difference is huge. Cool to see helium 8k vs the c200. Nowadays they both are really cheap to buy
6:54 RED engineers say black balancing once every two months is more than enough
(unless you're operating in extreme temperatures or using shutter speeds 1/8th of a second or lower.)
I think the biggest challenge you have is trying to match the grade, not the cameras. If you were to load the footage from each, color correct to get a nice even baseline, you would have no problem at all grading the two to look the same.
HDRx sets two different shutter speeds recording two files at once, that can later be combined into one file; eg, 24 fps at 1/48 (180 degrees), for the dark, interior room and +1,+2,+3,+4 (1/125,1/250,1/500,etc) or whatever works for the desired exposure) for the bright, exterior window. It uses a lot of processor power and has a max of ~40fps, depending on which RED and compression ratio. Cheaper cameras mimic this by recording every other frame light, then dark, but in playback you can see the flicker if you look closely.
But the best, when you shoot an day in a building with Windows :D
Please sell your C200 Alexa Mini LUT. Looks amazing! 😍
You can buy it here: sellfy.com/p/3Hxb/
Hi great video ! If I am not wrong, on its C200, Canon claims 15 stops of dynamic range in its Cinema RAW Light and 13 when shooting in MP4 format.
Inflated marketing speak. Like automobile manufactures mileage claims, take all that with a grain of salt.
Marketing political talk. The key is Clog2, which allows up to 15 stops. But it still depends on what the sensor is capable of. I own the c20p and if you use the max (12 bit Raw 24p) you get about 14 stops but you must have the 12 bit not the 10 bit.
As an ownerof the c200
Those practicals in the background look great. I appreciate all the work that went into this. I always feel like I learn something from your videos. Thanks for posting.
Likewise thanks for watching 👊🏼
This opening shot is so so so so clean! Love the colors and contrast and separation from the background.
Super informative and awesome style. You deserve a lot more subscribers!
Thanks for making this video. Because you told some real-world facts like the use of Auto Focus, RED or ARRI Alexa is not an ultimate solution for making a good production, which most of the people have miss concept.
You can match any camera color in *Davinci Resolve,* period.
C200B = best camera in the industry and unbeatable for the price ($3,999) 🥇
Awesome video, Armando!
Awesome collaboration all around!
Your new talking head lighting setup reminds me of crimson's, and its super nice!
Mind you I am just going off of consensus and not from experience with this, but it seems like Film >Arri >Red >Canon C >Blackmagic Mini Ursa. If there's more to the list or if other people want to confirm/ alter this list I'm more than open to it along with discussion as to why.
When ever i see alexa footage ..it just brings a smile on my face . Lamborghini is Lamborghini .
Abhishek Krishnkant Arri is amazing
The perceived production quality level is so true! It takes being honest with yourself about whether or not we simply say it's better because of the name or... it really is better. Thanks for sharing this!
Super happy to see the Mag shoutout! Chicago loves Mag.
Great job as always! Thanks for sharing.
I wonder why Red has become the such a super popular cinema camera choice for youtubers; relatively speaking compared to Arri that is. Obviously Canon C series gets a lot of exposure on TH-cam.
But I’ve never seen a TH-camr shoot with an Arri Alexa, unless it’s been a comparison style video like you and crimson engine did; but not really for they’re day to day normal content have I seen somebody shoot with Arri on TH-cam.
Just interesting to me
RED is still WAYYY cheaper than Arri. You can have a RED for $30k when the Alexa Mini starts at $45k just for the body only! By the time it's all said in done you're in it for $70k so that's a lot of money for TH-cam ha!
Armando Ferreira yeah no doubt, price was the only thing I could figure. That’s a good point. Especially when you can get a solid Arri-esque look out of a $7000 C200.
Because it represents baller status (1 M+ subs.). All are gross overkill for youtube.
Great video bro!
Thanks bro, I appreciate you stopping by 🙏
Great video Armando! Thanks for putting in the work on these comparisons for us to watch and enjoy!
Awesome video! Since we're on the topic of comparing cameras, I'd love to see your C200 vs an URSA Mini Pro or even those two vs an Arri. Everyone claims the URSA to be a 'mini Alexa' and I'd love to see if there's actually truth in that statement. Also, I have an URSA Mini Pro...
Great insight. Very honest comparison. I agree that more and more creators (and clients) fall for the “name” of the camera and don’t focus on what’s needed for the job at hand. I’m actually in the market for a new cam so I’m basing my investment on 1) what camera can I grow into for the next few years 2) which ecosystem will benefit me in the long run..
So I’m projecting that within the next 5 years I expect my productions to get bigger so Im not going to invest in anything entry level but also don’t have a budget for Reds or Arris.. so I need to land somewhere in between where I can improve my current content but also know that I can eventually make the bigger stuff without having to buy another cam again when the time comes..
Como Siempre un Video bien hecho mi pana 💪🏼
Right on Armando! Great video! As always!
Clicked on this video out of the pure curiosity and did not expect the content to be this good. You have outdone yourselves. Such great appreciation from me. :)
Thank you!
The Alexa “film look” is a rich softness, but I use Canon too including the C700! The RED Monstro VV and 5K Red for low light more run and gun.
Great one, thanks! I learn so much with you guys
I wouldn't be using Adobe premiere pro to attempt to match a color grade. It's just not open enough. I'd use Davinci Resolve specifically for that use case.
Lighting in your talking head shot is on point!
Thanks my man! 🙌🏼
Those last words at the end.. nailed it mate
Armando, thank you so much; all of your videos are informative and quite enlightening.
This isn't aimed directly at Armondo but in general. Gotta love the people that use cameras like the 8k red whatever to shoot tech reviews on a platform like TH-cam.
Team Crispy!
PS. Many of those same people will then do the majority of their video work on a laptop!
The nature of the net has us all trying to justify our opinions with fervor because couch complainers are so quick to comment but people like you, who are legit using both platforms, are perhaps the most qualified to speak on behalf of the pros and cons. All of the cams mentioned here (and countless others on the market today) can deliver amazing performance. So much of what separates the pros from the ams is lens choice, lighting and, as you demonstrated, color grading. Another way of saying it - it's getting harder and harder to blame the camera for a bad take!
I've always thought that 4K is well enough resolution for a video... but my god that 8K footage is sharp!
Great Video Armando! Well done!
This was so helpful! Were you shooting RAW?
Those images are amazing...great video Armando!
Hey man!
What are these nice body caps on your Thumbnail? These guys are just looking bad ass! 🤩
GLOBAL DYNAMICS UNITED PL BODY CAP
Flix thank you. I just realised, it costs 140€ to ship to Germany. For a Body cap that’s a lot of money
Fabian Ja is leider n’bisschen teuer. Am besten selbst machen. Oder: Gibt auch eigene Seiten auf denen man sich Body caps customizen kann.
Flix nice Danke! Die ist aus Metall und sieht gut aus, vielleicht mache ich das doch
Flix Flix noch eine Frage. Kannst du mir eine gute Seite empfehlen? Auf der ich meine Bodycaps customizen kann?
if the test allowed you to use xrite color passport (or something like dat) i will use dat and color grade the footage in 3D Lut Creator... such a breeze to edit with that software...
The c200 is nice for the price but it’s no dsmc2 body.. 16 bit raw vs 10 bit raw at 60p.. or 16 bit raw at 150p at 4K vs no such thing on the C200. Owned both, got rid of the c200 for the UMP. Now getting another UMP g2 because there’s nothing under 10K that looks as good or is as capable
Of course it's not dsmc2 body and it's also not $40k either ha! The UMP is awesome, but if you saw my C200 vs Arri Alexa Mini I love how much the C200 resembles the Alexa Mini which personally I prefer over RED. If I rent an Alexa Mini I can match it with the C200 very easily I mean literally can do the exact same color grade on both and with just minor adjustments they work together very well. The only reason that stops me from getting a UMP G2 is the lack of AF. I do a lot of TH-cam stuff and having AF is clutch for my workflow.
Armando Ferreira I agree AF is super useful in many situations and the c200 does it great. However I think the more fair comparison is the raven package which is already a higher res sensor than the 4K c200.. prices are not that far off. UMP also matches ARRI pretty closely. We have done grades off of it. Red does as well if you follow the IPP2 workflow
Really good looking A-roll & great overall vid!
Thanks dude!
Imo if a cinema camera has autofocus it's just a huge plus! Awesome video Armando!
Great video Armando!
Armando, I need to know...What are the red body caps you're using in the thumbnail?!
Here: global-dynamics-united.myshopify.com/products/gdu-aluminum-lens-cap?variant=12119223468148
Great insight, Armando. 12:00 is gold. Right tool for the job.
Armando, I need to know: what lens did you use for the A-roll? It looks absolutely amazing! 🔥
Tech Viewer I say it in my video haha it's the 50mm F1.2 Canon L
I enjoyed your video bro. Thank you for taking the time to make it
Well better is subjective, but you did prove the economy with marginally noticeable compromise of choosing Camera A over Camera B. Now the only claim for sure is that those more expensive camera (when properly optioned) will get you there a lot easier. BTW, why didn't you use Premier's color matching?
These videos are a great way to show value for a fledgeling production company. If you're making a film with a budget of millions on talent alone, what's $40,000 for an Alexa Mini plus a $70,000 set of Cooke lenses? Whereas if you're spending your own money a C200, an FS5ii, an EVA-1 or an URSA mini, with maybe a Pocket 4k as a B-cam, makes a lot more sense as it gets you most of the way there in IQ, with only the most fussy clients wanting an ARRI or RED. I'm currently going with Pocket 4k as my A-cam, and a BM Micro or original Pocket as a B-cam.
Eventhough I can't afford both, but still very interesting video. And your talking head session's video quality is so good.
One of the few videos in which I see a truthful comparison, where the merits and defects are described for each one of the 2 cameras. In many comparison videos (for example one that I saw between Alexa Mini and BMPCCK 4K ..) it is said that the difference between the 2 cameras is minimal .... A sacrilege for those who understand a bit of professional videos.
Great points as always.
man awesome background there
Armando, superb exposition. Makes me wish I still owned a C200...sort of.
No mention of 120p or 240p? Canon can't even shoot 240p. I am not saying this is something I use ALOT but sure is good to have it there when the occasion calls for it and always makes the client smile.
Your lighting setup is dopeee
Armando... so many on-point thoughts here! Excellent rational arguments indeed!
Great comparison! Really enjoyed it, however one gripe..... The post sharpening looks pretty high on the red footage
I had no idea the c200 turns off auto focus when it doesn't see a face. That's awesome.
Thomas Prettyman yeah it's a killer feature!
Thank you for these videos Armando 😁
DON _ALD thank you for watching. 👊🏼
Carlos nailed that colour grade, would like to see how he colour graded that shot
10:05 Very true. Auto focus is good. Especially on these newer cinema cameras. Before 2007, digital camcorders sucked. Good work. I agree with this review
Hi Armando, you say that red is a more contrasty camera. Its not correct unless you mean micro contrast of course. In the video the best example was the young woman standing next to a window at 5:02. But you could easy roll off the contrast less. Cheers
Are those body caps in the thumbnail? They look so cool!
Yup
Hi Armando, thx for Your videos! Could You a test comparing the Kinefinity Terra vs the C200? Greets
WOW Thanks man , you are truly preaching the truth .Keep this type of stuff up !!
Great stuff! Very useful info.
It's more like what you care about in terms of the final output you can produce out of your camera. I like the RED color science so I will get RED even thought it won't come with side handles, etc..
loving this series
dope video bro,keep working!
Personally, I think the RED should be used for stuff where 8K will make a difference like motion tracking, heavy VFX, flexibility in post-production, etc.
Also, it's 2019 and Premiere Pro guys still use an adjustment layer with a circular mask to isolate a face. There is a thing called face tracking in Resolve (technically it is called face refinement but the way it works is like face tracking)
Thanks Armando!!
I don't know why I'm watching this because I can't afford any of those cameras😂
my god, there's some very down to earth rationale here. Truth. thank you. When you're running a multimillion dollar production $75000 extra is negligible compared to when you are running a 3000 dollar production. The c200 will probably do more than adequate for such a production. But when you are spending millions why would you take a lesser cam when $75000 is less than just a fraction of a percent of the budget. The better question is when and where is the tipping point, budget wise, for growing cinematographers?
Wow the colors in your studio look sooo good! What did u change?
Haha just changed my lighting a bit to make it more dramatic since this video is dramatic ha!
To be fair, regarding people view of your production, I don't think most clients have any idea of the camera you're using and they don't really care. If it's BIG and shoot in 4K, and they don't know how it works... ;)
I’m in the middle of a feature right now, using a few Alexa mini LF’s. Both are extremely unreliable. In fact, of the 3 people I know who own the Alexa mini LF, 100% of them have had some kind of major quality control issue with that camera. When everyone is ready to go and production has to stop because your camera is having technical issues it’s really embarrassing and costs a ton of money. I’ve never had issues like that on Canon Cinema cameras or Black Magic cameras, even Sony FS cameras have been more reliable in my personal experience. So yeah, cheaper cameras are getting better and I think the two big boys need to start looking over their shoulder.
the c200 is best suited for interviews and documentary filmmakers where the RED is better for scripted work (si-fi / drama) for a grittier or more punchy feel or if the project has a lot of VFX work
I think what he's saying is the the C200 can get you 8/10th of the RED for less money...a lot less money!
Armando, I may have missed this, but did you mention what resolution/codec you were shooting the C200 in? I'm guessing you were shooting in 8bit 4k, since you mentioned 13 stops of DR, whereas the raw lite with clog should achieve 15 stops. Thanks for posting this vid.
Can you rank these brands ? Please red helium 8k or Sony Venice 8k or arri 8k. I want durability, quality and reliability
looking forward to a camera rental website comparison... magrents vs sharegrid vs adoramarentals vs lensrentals for example
The RED Helium footage is so sharp, what a camera.
How about Sony FS series？
Now why would you want to match the color to Red cameras? :/
I used the c200 on a client job. A documentary, everything was wonderful about it except 1. The noise 2. Auto focus fucked my shots
11:45 NOPEEEE! C300 all the way. Armando 👏🏼🙏🏼