Was MAEGOR THE CRUEL a NECESSARY EVIL for the Targaryen Dynasty
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Maegor the Cruel, a tyrant in Westerosi history, ruled with unparalleled brutality, instilling fear through gruesome violence and savage terror. While his reign saw widespread torture and massacres, some argue that it was a necessary evil and they suggest that his harsh methods were crucial to crush rebellions and eliminate threats to the Targaryen regime. In this video, I try to delve deeper into this topic and explore the effectiveness of Maegor’s reign.
Tell me if you agree with my takes down below in the comment’s section.
#maegorthecruel #fireandblood #houseofthedragon #targaryens #targaryen #dragons #baleriontheblackdread #balerion #maegor #rhaenyratargaryen #rhaenyra #daemon #daemontargaryen #georgerrmartin #hbo #hbomax #aegontheconqueror #thefaithoftheseven #archmaestergyldayn #maesters
CHAPTERS
00:00 - INTRO
02:00 - AENYS’S WEAKNESS
07:12 - CRUSHING REBELLIONS
10:38 - CRUSHING THE FAITH MILITANT
14:46 - A NECESSARY EVIL
15:54 - What do YOU think?
ART CREDITS (order of appearance)
Maegor I by Amok
Zombie King by naomimakesart
Maegor crowned from The Rise of the Dragon
The Trial of the Seven from The Rise of the Dragon
The death of Tyanna from The Rise of the Dragon
Maegor in furs by naomimakesart
Tyrion and Young Grif from samartworksblog
High Septon by Doug Weatley
Maegor I by Doug Wheatley
Aenys I on the Iron Throne by Magali Villeneuve
King Aenys by Doug Wheatley
King Aenys I by [Unknown]
The Vulture hunt from The Rise of the Dragon
Torrhen Stark kneels to Aegon I by Chase Stone
Harren the Red by “Joff” from Amino Apps
The melee at Harrenhal from The Rise of the Dragon
Riverrun by Ted Nasmith
The Fall of Harrenhal by Rene Aigner
Temerian Army by Bizzipo
Knights of the Vale by Fadly Romdhani
The Vulture King from The Rise of the Dragon
Lodos and his followers from The Rise of the Dragon
Jaehaerys and Alysanne by Doug Wheatley
The Faith Militant by 1oshuart
The Poor Fellows by Stefan Kopinski
Dragonstone by Philip Straub
Visenya on Dragonstone from The Rise of the Dragon
Aenys and Maegor by Elena Stripe
Maegor arrives at the Eyrie from The Rise of the Dragon
The death of Aegon the Uncrowned by Doug Wheatley
Aegon and Aenys by Jota Saraiva
Medieval army outside castle by [Unknown]
Liberating Dreamfyre and Quicksilver from The Rise of the Dragon
Balerion the Black Dread and Quciksilver by [Unknown]
The death of Aegon the Uncrowned from The Rise of the Dragon
The Warrior's Sons by Andrew Bosley
Note: All materials in this video are used for the purpose of enhancing my opinions on the topic discussed, not to plagiarise or bastardize any of the intellectual property used. This falls within the guidelines of fair use and so no copyright infringements were intended.
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Maegor had to happen for the Targaryens to keep power. Reading the sections with King Aenys in power were so frustrating, it was embarrassing. Jaehaerys knew that being seen as an Aenys would threaten their power and influence again. Young Jaehaerys made it a point to make sure he wasn't just competent but an excellent warrior in his own right. Speaks to how wise King Jaehaerys was knowing he needed an even amount of Aenys AND Maegor to be an effective leader. It always irks me when people just paint Maegor as a terrible person. He served a purpose and did it well, just not how I wanted. But you can't deny the result.
"But you can't deny the result." TRUE. 💯
What results? Rebellion immediately after his death. A did divided house Targaryen weakened after maegors wanted to power grab.
People aren’t soft and weak king so they’ll be no holding back on calling Maegor a cruel and evil king.
@@bigbuddy1 there wouldn't have been a targaryen dynasty to rebel against if not for Maegor. He and Visenya saved the Targaryen's from the church of the seven.
The best metaphor for Maegor's rule is seen in the building of Maegor's Keep. He created a fortress full of secret passages to protect the rulers of Westeros for many generations to come, and he did so through cruel and inhumane acts.
Maegor in a nutshell.
@@eoghanclark165 Nothing suggests this at all. Aegon "The Uncrowned" seemed nothing like his father, and had Maegor instead choose to help them instead of usurp him, the Targaryens most likely would've been stronger, they would've had more dragons, and they might've even been able to add polygamy to the Doctrine of Exceptionalism.
Imagine Maegor being loyal and being Aegon's "Steel Fist" instead of the path he did.
@@Aaron_Guest all evidence points to Aegon the younger being a weakling like his father. He allowed himself to be cut off from his families source of power by going on a progress without his or his wife’s dragon (I don’t even think he had claimed a dragon yet). Westeros didn’t have a phone line he could just ring Maegor up and say come get him at the Lannisters house lol as far as maegor knew the boy was dead. And AFTER Maegor was crowned by the former Queen of the Conqueror and cleaned up the mess his brother had left the boy shows up steals from him gathers an army and tries to say “thank you for keeping my seat warm but now that the mess is clean I’ll be killing you and taking it”. Not one thought was ever given to trying to talk to his uncle. Maybe show some gratitude and he would’ve made him heir. I’m not saying Maegor was a good person but he for sure saved house Targaryen and Aegon the Younger was for sure a pawn of some smarter behind the scenes high lord (probably a Lannister) just like the baratheons tried to use Jahaerys as their pawn
Keep in mind these facts:
Fire and Blood insinuates that Maegor was born using dark magics.
Maegor did not attempt to usurp his brother's throne while he ruled but helped him quell the uprisings that were sparked during his reign.
Then remember that Maegor was betrayed by almost everyone close to him, this includes one of his wives, Tyanna, who allegedly revived him using dark magic after the Trial of the Seven.
I feel that the circumstances of Maegor's birth, his eventual revival at the hands of Tyanna using dark magic and then all the betrayal he had to suffer drove Maegor mad. Otherwise, his actions before all this could be termed as cruel yet necessary to secure Targaryen power.
Furthermore, recall that the histories of Westeros are mostly penned by Maesters of the Citadel who have a great dislike for magic and dragons. It is only obvious that these Maesters would attempt to slander Maegor.
Worst part is he wasn't really mad, just a psychopath
Maegors treatment of the faith: reasonable and necessary
Maegors treatment of his fellow Targaryens: unnecessary and ruinous
Facts 💯
Short explanation and 100% right.
They betray him, so yes, maegor see the good for the family, but They are piece of shit.
Interesting topic. Yeah, I guess Maegor’s reign was effective for the Targaryens, but I'm not sure if it was effective for everyone else in Westeros. As you said, many people were tortured and killed. Maegor wasn't a stand up guy, but he did secure Targaryen power. Awesome video once again. More please. 🤗
Fair point. He was a terrible ruler when it came to diplomacy and political relations, but he was great at squashing rebellions and other threats to the Targaryen regime. He was a warrior, basically, and I don't think that warriors always make for the best of kings. They always have one solution to a problem: to resolve it with a sword.
It wasn’t that effective all the problems people in the comments claimed he fixed were fixed by another person.
@@thecriticalmaester9702he and Aenys really needed each other to compliment their weaknesses
@@nunyabuisness9397
True
Here is my take, and it's a lengthy one, so be prepared:
Visenya chose to paint herself and Maegor as the villains of history so as to secure the continuation of the Targaryen dynasty. In time however, the pantomime villain Maegor BECAME a true villain.
Aegon managed the realm, Visenya kept it quelled through fear and might, and Rhaenys won the hearts of the people to their favour.
When Rhaenys died, so did the security Aegon's rule operated through. The final 20 years of peace in Aegon's rule was not peaceful through choice, but from the Ruler's fear. They no longer had their most popular sibling.
Robert is the shadow-Aegon, a brave warrior who becomes a King, only a drunken lech who craves for war again.
Stannis is the shadow-Visenya, militant, cold and deeply caring of family, yet easily led astray by others.
Renly is the shadow-Rhaenys, popular and inspiring at court, yet a total airhead.
Rhaenys was anything but stupid. Her war was one of culture, and her loss put the dynasty in a bind, as the Church gradually re-established its dominance over Westeros.
Aenys, of course, was a good-hearted idiot, who would not listen to Visenya's warnings about the Church. This caused fissures between them - the true conflict, since just as Stannis loved/loves his family, I believe Visenya truly loved Aenys and all her nieces and nephews. There was never true bitterness over who should seize the throne. She simply feared how easily they were being manipulated.
When Aenys was dying, it was through poison from his maestor, and Visenya quickly cured him causing his short recovery. After this however, I believe Aenys STILL didn't listen, and Visenya made a terrible choice. She killed her Nephew for the good of the dynasty, and summoned her son, to whom she confided her plan. They became a necessary evil for their House's survival. Villains of history that must do what MUST be done.
Not long after however, Maegor would die, and need to be resurrected, forever altering him. The brutish but dutiful son became increasingly unhinged and unpredictable. It greatly saddened Visenya, but also worked perfectly for the plan she was concocting...
You see, Visenya was grooming Prince Jaehaerys for King and Alysanne for Queen secretly throughout this entire period.
It is noted briefly that she kept them prisoner, yet oddly very little else is recorded of this most famous power-couple as children.
I strongly believe that much of Jaehaerys and Alysanne's early achievements and great wisdom beyond their years such as the solution of Targaryen Exceptionalism alongside their insistence that they married each other was all due to the guidance of Visenya.
She recognised that of all her nieces and nephews the two youngest were not only the brightest but also the most maluable and impressionable.
She placed her bets on them becoming the future of the House, and showed them the path to greatness. But before they could take Reign, first the Faithful had to be taught how to kneel.
When the Black Bride, Elinor Costayne, proceeded King Jaehaerys preaching Targaryen Exceptionalism, it's said she spoke of Maegor's cruelty and Jaehaerys and Alysanne's greatness as contrast.
This was precisely how Visenya planned it to be.
Maegor, tragically, was not born a monster. But under his mother's instruction pretended to he one, and in time, his soul was chipped away through magic and misdeeds until he became the monster he once pretended to be.
I think Maegor was Visenya's sacrifice. The price of a son for a dynasty. A great man, who became a monster.
It's not that long I need more
Id argue that it was really Visenya that was the real ruler, while Maegor had just been for the sake of legitimacy. He didn't last long after she died.
Interesting point. Maybe you're right. Even during Aegon the Conqueror's reign, it's said that his two queens governed the realm in truth. I suspect that Visenya was even more effective than Rhaenys, since Rhaenys was more playful and would have, perhaps, not taken the role too seriously. Visenya probably held it down during those years.
just like jaeherys and alysanne..
Maegor definitely was unnecessary cruel and was a terrible human being, but he was needed to help secure the realm under the Targaryen dynasty and make it respected and feared. Great Video topic btw
Thank you for watching.
Maegor was cruel ruthless tyrrant, but House Targaryen stood because of him, he weakened the faith, and yes in the end many houses turned away from him, but, the Faith, and many Houses grew to fear house Targaryen somewhat, Jahaerys even though wise ruler himself, wouldnt have survived if Aenys gaved the crown to him (i mean if Maegor didnt existed)
Maegor Targaryen was necessary evil
Great video man, you earned a subscriber
Funnily enough maegor never usurped his brothers line until aenys was dead.
True, though he did undermine his brother a lot.
Say what you will, he saved the Targaryens. Yes, he was cruel, commited himself and the whole realm in a war against the Faith, killed two out of his six wives, killed three maesters and even more holy men, but he made it clear why House Targaryen became so dreaded, and that is due to the dragonpower. Jaeherys would've had little to no way to pave the way to a better realm without Maegor's "help"
Jaehaerys owes a lot of his reign's successes to Maegor's effectiveness as a ruler. The Faith would've been a big problem for him, and I think that it's pretty clear that Jaehaerys wouldn't have dealt with them in the same way as Maegor - burning them and placing bounties on their heads and all of that. Jaehaerys was strong, but I don't know if he would've been as effective as Maegor. Maegor used Fire and Blood, like a true dragonking.
@@thecriticalmaester9702no he doesn’t no Targaryen king besides aenys was going to to put up the faith at all.
They were always going to be dealt with one way or An other.
@@hclw3589maybe Jaehaerys would have been more like his dad in dealing with the Faith if he didn’t have his uncle’s example. Or maybe a little of Maegor was needed in every good king which apparently Ser Gyles in Jaehaerys when he got mad
Aenys and Maegor were important as they established both the benevolent and agressive side of House Targaryen. They both paved the way for Jaehaerys to be the kind that would shape the 7 kingdoms and who would rule benevolently but who also would show aggression if called for, living up to his title as conciliator.
Maegor the Cruel was definitely a necessary evil for the Targaryens. You're right, he got rid of their enemies and left the Targaryens ruling for hundreds of years unchallenged. However, I would also add that Jaehaerys also strengthened the Targaryen line, especially through the laws that he put in place while he was in power. He reigned for a long time and he reigned peacefully, so I think that that counts for something. However, I totally agree that Maegor doesn't get the credit he deserves for ruling effectively. He was mad and cruel, but he was effective. I think that he was the right ruler for times of war, but not the best for ensuring peace. Again, Jaehaerys was best for that. Anyway GREAT VIDEO!!! ❤
He wasn’t that effective the moment he died issues like the faith immediately popped back up.
1000% necessary for the dynasty to survive. Key things to remember about the setting… the Targaryens were foreign conquerors basically experiencing their first transfer of power. The best time to revolt ? During a succession. With that being said; of the fantasy setting cruelty(cutting our hearts) he wasn’t too different than any other ruler. The only difference was he had a very large dragon and even more so than Aegon himself , he was not afraid to use it. It’s fun to call him cruel but I think people should realize that an attack on the family could definitely be perceived as direct threat. “ You revolt on my brother, you could revolt on me. Lose a revolt, lose your life and everything your family worked for.
Thank you for watching. I agree with what you said there: he was the right ruler for times of war, but not the best for ensuring peace. This is something that's also true (though perhaps in the opposite way) for a character like Otto Hightower. Otto was effective when he was ruling in times of peace, but he was ineffective in dealing with the Blacks during the war. It's the same for Maegor, though perhaps in the opposite direction.
Jaehaerys was a good king in that he consolidated the Targaryen's power, but he wouldn't have been able to do that if there wasn't already a foundation to build upon. Maegor's terror was an awful thing for Westeros, but it made several things clear throughout the realm. One - that the Targaryens are the only true overlords, and that no one should ever dare question or challenge that. Two - if anyone makes the mistake of not adhering to the first rule, then they will burn, for the Targaryens wield true power through their dragons, and if you annoy them, your castles and holdfasts will be razed to the ground. Three - the Targaryens are basically gods in this - in that they are above the laws of common men. I think that Maegor established this when he married multiple wives, one of them his own kin. All of these things were established under Maegor's reign and Jaehaerys just took them further.
This is a truly excellent video. As for my own thoughts on Maegor the Cruel, he was definitely ruthless beyond measure and was definitely sick in the head- as he had killed several kinsmen, so he is a kinslayer. Was he a necessary evil? In my honest opinion, yes, he was, as he did bring stability to Westeros overall, albeit through some very vile means.
Thank you for watching ❤️
@@thecriticalmaester9702 You are very welcome:). There is a very good lesson to be aware of with Maegor the Cruel: power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
All the wife(s) stuff aside, I'm willing to bet that Meagor didn't do anything that Visenya wouldn't do in his position. I think she's the scariest of the Targaryens.
When they ask maegor if the evil was necessary he replied " very " 😂
"Maejor" Targaryean lol
Whoever killed the high septon saved old town. Whether they were loyal or not to the targaryens
Justice for Maegor
Saying Maegor saved his dynasty while massacring his brother's family is like screwing for the sake of virginity
nice
thanks.
Maegor was a terrible king but actually pretty effective Hand if you read the stuff he did. Aenys biggest mistake was actually exiling him because I do think Aenys had right idea. Maegor was a brute & psychopath but he was necessary to balance Aenys weakness. I do think Aenys had the right idea that him & his brother made an effective team & would rule together. Because I do believe Maegor was loyal to Aenys simply because they shared same father. This didn’t extend to his nephews but I do think he acknowledged Aenys as the rightful ruler.
However he was terrible he lost everyone towards the end nobody really wanted to be king & he really wasn’t making progress with Faith. Killing religious figures just creates symbols. I do think he made everyone entirely hungry for him to be gone allowing Jaherys to slide in.
No, he wasn't. Maegor was not a necessary evil, he was just a terrible King. Through and through.
While Aenys was too weak, Maegor had the opposite problem.
Honestly, the people who say Maegor was "exactly what the Targaryens needed and would've been helpful later on" are the same people who would find themselves beheaded once they started to question his more ridiculous actions.
Like really, people make it seem like the Faith and all their followers were in the wrong for standing up for their beliefs against another race who's culture was vastly different and had recently conquered them.
Most things don't change overnight, especially culture/Faith, and Jaehaerys would end up showing that in the end, concessions and diplomacy can and should be made.
The Valyrians keeping some of their traditions is understandable, but not all of them. Sadly for them, Valyria is gone, and a few key changes have been made to the way Valyrian Noble houses have been operating since the Doom and slightly before.
The Dragonlords apparently had equal inheritance beforehand, letting men and women inherit titles equally, (albeit with the men still having a few more liberties here and there), but all that changed when they came to Westeros.
Targaryen, Velaryon, and Celtigar all now follow male Primogeniture, ensuring a male comes before a female in succession. It didn't have to be questioned till the situation regarding the Great Council, and after that one instance it was thought to have been made clear.... then Viserys I made the dumb decision to keep Rhaenyra as heir over Aegon II, which lead to disaster.
Some Valyrian things, like male/female inheritance and multiple wives, had to be removed for the sake of the Monarchy having at least something in common with the people they were ruling, Andal and First Men alike.
Something many fans, as well as Visenya and Maegor don't seem to understand is that just because Targaryens are often cool and their dragons are awesome, doesn't make them gods, it doesn't mean their way is the omly acceptable way.
Most all of Westeros rebelled against Maegor and it was for multiple reasons, and it wasn't until Jaehaerys used common sense and negotiation did the hostilities end.
He’s was a great guy
“What about the murders?”
WHAT MURRRRRRRDA
Is Maegor the Cruel used as a metaphor though? Maegor the Cruel actually is connected to the concept of a bad ruler, especially a bad ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. And if the metaphor is based on contiguity which involves real connection existing between the two notions, it’s not supposed to be a metaphor. So it’s probably of metonymic group, maybe periphrasis?
When a kingdom or country falls under a weak ruler, chaos follows. It creates a power vacuum that inevitably will be ceased upon by a despot. Strongmen rulers are consequences of chaos. It works sometimes, in the case of Maegor. For others such as Aerys, it becomes a disaster. Maegor was more strategic about his cruelty. He had Visenya to watch his back. More importantly they still had dragons.
Tbh I feel the only way he was good for them was eventually making the way for Jahaerys
Looking at his résumé, he was a necessary evil, his family’s dynasty was new and its second king was weak, Maegor showed the Andals what a dragonlord with no restraint could do.
While tightening their control of Westeros was necessary for the Targaryen dynasty, nothing forced Maegor to marry multiple women, kill his relatives, or crown himself king. He could have been an iron fist of a Hand instead of a tyrannical ruler and the Targaryens would have been fine.
Maegor is interesting character, we have much but many stories but what we know he was The Cruel Targaryen that was the fear for all enemies of Targaryen. Also example for Targaryen to not stride to react for it’ll mean you’re acting less human and acting like a wild dragon.
The maesters writing the history are biased and do not like the dragons so I don't take everything they say as a fact.....they also said that amen one eye was trying to kill his cousin.. and well we see that's not true
maegor not only kept together what aegon built but built onto the targaryen dynasty. maybe that's why i like him, as horrible as that sounds given everything else about him. except for the tyanna thing, why poison his kids? she caused an entire house to be snuffed out
Maegor maybe a necessary evil against the Targaryens enemies but I disagree everyone called Maegor the great sorry guys he screwed himself during his reign he crossed the line when his murder his kin. At the end of day Evil is Evil lesser,greater,middling it all the same he was more dragon than man.
While Maegor probably wouldn’t have been the best diplomat imo I don’t think it’s fair to say that he wasn’t diplomatic because in truth he was never given the chance to be. His brothers reign had embolden the rebel lords so much that Maegor really had no other option than to make examples of them if he didn’t want even more rebels to pop up. He did try and play by the faiths rules when he agreed to the 7v7 trial by combat something he didn’t have to do since he was king and his word was suppose to be law he had every right to just raise an army and wipe them out and even when he won the trial the faith changed the rules and decided to still raise an army and they had to be dealt with or it would’ve only emboldened them further. He was loyal to his brother even though he brother was constantly aiding with the rebel lords over his own family when it was clear the lords were only trying to weaken the Targaryens as a whole. Even agreeing to exile when all he did was what his family had been doing since the beginning of their reign over westeros (taking more than one wife). Even though Maegor with the superior dragon could’ve said no to his brother he remained loyal. When he took the iron throne his niece and nephew where surrounded by rebels and in no position to rule the kingdom so he took the throne and put down the rebellions and how did they thank him? Instead of coming to Kings Landing and talking to their uncle they conspired against him snuck into his castle and stole from him. Still he didn’t chase them or even seem to care until they started trying to unite half the kingdom against him and raise an army to lets be real kill him and take the throne from him. Yes what he did to young Viserys was horrible but this was after that side of the family had already tried to kill him and he forgiven them and even tried to patch the family back together by taking the would be usurpers wife as his bride and letting his sister in law and her children stay in his castle just for them to conspire against him again and disappear in the night. As far as Maegor was concerned they were enemies of the crown by then. Was Maegor perfect, not at all but was he evil? Debatable at worst and not at all at best.
One of the arguments against Maegor is that he died abandoned and alone so he must have been evil but if you look how Aenys died it was pretty much the same way (abandoned and alone) and everyone agrees he was too nice
Not really. He was incredibly insecure and unable to act diplomatic or concede some points wich are terrible qualities in a leader. He would have made a somewhat good general, but an awful king for sure. A bad Targeryan.
What's there to negotiate when you have a big F off dragon. It was the same for every Targaryen pre dance. It was just more apparent with maegor. There's a reason why in one of dany's povs she notions herself as the blood of aegon and maegor during her journey.
@@apacalypsagon3758 Thats why he died alone and abandoned by everyone, same has Daenerys. He was universally hated and left the Targeryan support shaking. Sure you can use the dragons to blunder people into submission, but eventually you will be reining over ashes.
@@apacalypsagon3758Right, because Jaehaerys on Vermithor never tried to negotiate with anyone
@ramonserna8089 If anyone left the Targaryen power on shaky ground it was Aenys. The brother he was loyal to till the end even agreeing to exile himself though he clearly didn’t have to because of his superior dragon and even though the exile was his brother siding with the people of westeros over his own kin over something that the Targaryens had been doing since the beginning of their reign (taking more than one wife). He wasn’t allowed to be diplomatic even though he tried because his brother had made the rebels so embolden that they needed to be made examples of so that more rebels wouldn’t pop up. He gave the faith plenty of opportunities to stop their treason even playing by their rules when he agreed to a 7v7 trial by combat and when he won the Faith still tried to rebel. He never once lifted a finger against his family until they stole from him and started raising an army and trying to unite half the kingdom against him. Yes he died abandoned and alone but that has happened to all types of Kings not just the bad ones so that isn’t really evidence that he was “cruel” just that he wasn’t well liked in a way his own brother who was too nice also died abandoned and alone. But unlike his brother when Maegor died the Targaryen power was stronger and more feared than ever before evidenced by how no one really rebelled against the new boy king and the realm was more united than ever before evidenced by how the great houses would rather be lord regents to Jahaerys than to take back their kingdoms and declare themselves Kings again. Was Maegor perfect? Not at all but he was undoubtedly a necessary evil. At least imo.
@@KingOfWinter First of all he aggravated the crisis with the church by taking a second wife when he was hand of the king. That's unbelievably stupid. Imagine if Joe Biden's (or any other president of your liking) chief of staff took a 14 year old for his wife and said "Oh that's perfectly normal were I come from." well that's not exactly something smart is it?. He also betrayed his family because according to all laws the crown should be of Aegon, Aerys son. So he was basically an usurper. He left the realm in caos and the only reason it was united again was because Jaehaerys turned out to be a giga chad that excelled at ruling.
Aenys wasn't weak. His auntie was just a bitch. Aenys KNEW he had dragons. He KNEW that he could easily use them to make people do what he wanted them to do. EVERYONE knew this-but here comes Visenya, talking shit the moment ANY and ALL turmoil begins. A lot of which she instigated. At least some of which she openly creates herself. Saying crap like Aenys was too weak to be king and knew it, that's why he gave Blackfyre to Maegor. WtF? That should have been laughed at. Blackfyre wasn't the traditional sword of Targaryen kings-Aenys was only the second king! Visenya could have easily claimed it was a demonstration of brotherly love and equality. Anything that would leave the impression of Targaryen solidarity so early in their reign. Instead she publicly causes major fractures throughout the entire family from other's perspetives, weakening all of them. Saying shit like how Aenys is weak for NOT using dragons to burn a shiton of people to death and destroy everything around, etc. Seriously-how did anyone without a dragon ever endorse this kind of thinking or give it credit? NOBODY without dragons would agree with that. Not unless they had ulterior motives that included raging infernos as a must. That's just crazy talk. MOST of the FEW people with dragons at that time agreed with Aegon about not taking dragons to war in Westeros. The only thing Visenya does after Aegon dies is be a totally divisive, subversive bitch. Aegon himself was very leary about using dragons for war in Westeros excepting that stint in Dorne after Rhaenyra dies. Aegon doesn't seem to mind helping other lands/people with his dragons for their conflicts,-but he doesn't like using them for war in Westeros. Neither did Rhaenyra. I bet those were the best couple of years of Visenya's life, after her sister dies and before Aegon reads that letter. I got the feeling that Aenys had mysterious, but strong reasons not to use dragons that way unless there absolutely was no other choice. Possibly to never use them as weapons, no matter what, in certain instances, or in certain areas. Aenys spent a lot of time with Aegon. I am betting Aegon taught him about dragons, the prophecy, what type of ruler he should be, the Others, probably even how to treat/deal with Maegor and Visenya once Aenys was king. The Targaryens didn't conquer Westeros to rule with an iron fist through dragons. They conquered it because they saw The Others coming. Visenya wants to rule Westeros like it's the new Valyria. It's interesting how Aegon pretty much lives as if Maegor and Visenya aren't even alive after that visit from Dorne. Aegon reads that letter, gets extremely upset and heads straight for Dragonstone. Or somewhere. We're told Dragonstone. Whatever he found out there, and in that letter, estranged him permantly from Visenya and Maegor. Aenys was trying to mend the damage Visenya caused by presenting a united Targaryen front to Westeros after Aegon died in naming Maegor his Hand and bestowing Blackfyre on him. When Aenys dies and Maegor/Visenya take over, the Targaryen's main goal/purpose in Westeros seems to shift dramatically. Visenya, and through her, Maegor, did something so absolutely bad that it set in motion all the shit that came after. All of it. I feel like Aegon knew this in some kind of way and was trying to prep Aenys {and maybe a few others} for it since Aegon apparently couldn't kill Visenya. I can't put me finger on it-but I just KNOW that letter from Dorne is about Visenya's involvement in Rheanyra's death and offered some kind of evidence that Aegon was able to see for himself. Aegon's reaction to it long-term is why I think it somehow involves Maegor as well. That letter wasn't a threat or anything like that. No way does Aegon go to Dorne 10 years later to celebrate the anniversary of the day he got a letter threatening him and his family into a forced peace and/or mocking the death of his most beloved wife-sister. Dorne was asking for peace, they gave every indication that it was sincere. Whatever was in that letter would follow that-it might be an upsetting admission from Dorne, but it would be conducive for peace and healing. No. Maegor wasn't a necessary evil-I don't think Maegor was ever supposed to exist. Even if Visenya didn't use Rhaenyra's death to somehow have Maegor magically-there's no way Aegon would have slept with her again knowing she had something to do with Rhaenyra's death. Either way, Maegor shouldn't have been born. I think that has something to do with why he had no living children. I could keep going but I've already typed too much probably, heh. Magical-karma-science of some kind def exists in ASOIAF, and I got the feeling that Maegor's entire existence was cursed from the word go.
That's a neat theory I hadn't thought of before.
I'd long thought that Visenya killed Aenys with poison, though I believed Maegor and Aenys got on well enough.
Didn't notice that there was a rift between Aegon and visenya/maegor after the Dorne letter.
Did you get this from the world book or sons of the dragon?
@@BillyBasd I got the idea from the books. After Aegon reads the letter that the Dorne Princess gives him, he is very different. And he is very distant towards Visenya. Suddenly Visenya is strangely, silent from the time Aegon reads that letter until the moment he dies. I don't think they are ever alone together in the same room again, and it's extremely rare if they are near each other after that in any way. She basically drops out of the story until Aegon dies, when she immediately, and publicly, starts shit for Aenys, etc.
Yes and no.
You need to accept Targaryan rule is legitimate in the first place and power via domination, brutality and subjugation will never be justified even if there's some grand scheme, it could almost always be achieved through more decent means and if it can't you're not the one for the job anyway.
But if you're able to somehow accept it or you're speaking from the Targaryen perspective of Targaryen supremacy meaning basically anything they do is justified then ya could probably make a case that in the immediate term what he did helped their dynasty stay firmly in power.
But in the long-term it was probably one of many things that people could look at that hurt the Targaryen name and made future revolts more likely.
Their system was formed and upheld for generations off the strength of the fact that they had dragons, but once the family tree began to wilt and dragons died off it required buy-in and large armies that had no other reason to buy-in other than accepting Targaryen rule. Anything that threatens that, even of it was long ago and is just one of the things people point out as an overall body of evidence as to why people should join a revolution/coup, is a negative and his cruelty was a thing of legend.
There's also the diplomatic issues and a number of other things he did about as wrong as possible that hurt people's opinions of their dynasty for years after his death too.
So I think you can argue that he was a necessary evil but he didn't need to go as far as he did and coulda been better at a lotta different things that at least woulda made some of the horrors he committed seem a little more proportional and forgivable.
So in some ways it still wasn't a necessary thing, at least no more than using a small nuclear bomb to demolish a building when a little plastic explosive would work much better and have less unintended consequence. But I just have trouble getting into the heads of tyrants so I'll always find it hard to accept these things as necessary or legitimate lol
Great video. Also, Maegor did nothing wrong.
I second that lol 😆
@@NaphakadeTheGoat Me too. 😆
He crushed rebellions and killed those who threatened his rule. Only bad thing seems to be the killing of his wife but I don't have the context for that. Real life kings who are revered and celebrated did way worse.
He killed his wife, Tyanna, after she confessed to using dark magic to kill his babies in the wombs of his other wives. Maegor, as a result, died without an heir.
Don't forget he usurped the throne from his nephew and murdered him, and then tortured his nephew Viserys to death.
Saying killing his wife was the one bad thing is insanity.
👌🏾⭕️👍🏾
More like King Maegor the Great. Literally the best Targaryen monarch EVER. If I had daughters, I'd marry them all off to Maegor.
Don't know if I'd go as far as marrying my daughters to him.👀 Dude did rip his wife's heart out. However, I agree with you that he was one of the most important monarchs for the Targaryen dynasty.💯
Maegor the based.