2JZ vs B58: Which One is Better?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ย. 2019
- Article: dustrunnersauto.com/2jz-vs-b58/
To put it simply, the 2JZ is probably more reliable and it can withstand more power on a totally stock bottom end. That’s not to say the B58 is a weak engine, because as of right now there are multiple tuners pushing it as far as 700whp.
As far as what’s possible with the help of the aftermarket, it’s not really known to the full extent right now. With so many new tuners hoping on board the B58, it won’t be long until we see these engines eclipse the 1,000hp mark.
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Papadakis B58 Teardown: • 2020 Supra B58 Engine ...
Papadakis 2JZ Teardown: • Detailed 2JZ Engine Te... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Dust Runners Automotive Journal lol, what if they woulda put the n54 in? How much racket would that cause among people?
A recent TH-camr builded b58 that just hit 1000 hp
I know about the B58 but why don't you ever mention iconic bmw engines such as the s65 and the s55.
I wanna see s55 vs 2jz
b58 is better in just about every aspect except as a race engine.. which is irrelevant for most people
We will know the answer 20 years after today
the way things are developing nowadays probably within the next 5 years
or do you mean the reliabilty?
Not 20 years. Say next 5 years.
Yep, 2JZ
@@Atimo133 Lets just see in a short time 2 years is it reliable or not because anything that is working together especially german there is never anything good joint work with german
Thay alredy Recalled a lot of them in 2019 and it hasn't even been released yet 2020 supra a laughing stock just like the new nsx a car the manufacturer got so wrong
For me i think the difference of the 2JZ from the B58 is that:
2JZ: It can withstand Extremely high-boost (PSI) and insanely reliable.
But it is a heavy engine (Iron Block) and prone to heating at rapid speeds if tuned to 4-digit numbers (needs insane amount of cooling)
B58: Its a much more torque-y engine (bigger stroke), therefore easily puts power on the wheels.
In terms of the block, i think the Aluminium Block can withstand Medium to High-Boost(PSI) (but i personally think these engines cannot run very long with extreme boost since its not that strong compared to an Iron Block)
But at the same time these engines have the ability to lose heat more efficiently than a conventional Iron Block and it is much lighter.
In summary:
2JZ has insane potential, suited for tuning that involves extreme boost or heavy stress, but needs good amount of a cooling system, or it will overheat rapidly.
B58 has great potential, but it should be done carefully; since it is not that kind of an engine to withstand heavy stress.(High Boost applications)
That's my opinion. No hate.
Well to add on to this. The B58 is basically a modular N54/55 that's closed deck with derived parts from the diesel B57 I6 including its block,crank,and bottom end with the bottom end and crank being forged and mainly it is a N54 that BMW achieved to fix most of the parts that would normally fail on a N54 (like oil leaks,overheating, rod knocks,etc)and it's block material is made of the same material as the VR38 and Coyote.
@@carboydorifutoparty3976 Wow Brother! That's some great info!
that's a whole lot of writing to not say much, but seems like you're aware of their features.
0zxu Dragon great analysis👍
The n54 can hold 1000hp with stock internals just like a 2j
Papadakis just hit 1000 hp with their built b58
John Regan Yup people need to see this. As for individual Lambda an EGT sensors, I think a properly drill machining work can do the work with in-block exhaust manifold (I bet for Papadakis is not that hard for him to than that). Other than that, B58 is just far superior.
On an engine dyno not a chassis dyno.
Built , a stock block vvti gte just hit 900 hp ..
@@jasin1441 the block of the papdakis b58 is stock, just some of the internals were swapped. Not sure what your point is.
@@changereception7750 what's your point? The focus here is what the engine is capable of, we're not talking about the rest of the drive train in this context
Im a toyota boy but salute to bmw for sticking with the I6, the b58 is goated🫡
Great job at explaining both engines without having any bias.
Hats off to BMW because they have stayed with the inline 6 and given us a highly tune-able motor as well. From my perspective 2jz's are ridiculously expensive to buy and year that figure rises. The B58 predecessor the 600hp+ tuneable N54 is cheap as chips to buy now and the B58 will be in that category in 10-15 years. The relevance here is what you can get with bolt on's 700 hp maybe 800 is a shed load of power, if people want a 1000 plus HP then its irrelevant what motor they choose 2JZ, Barra, B58, RB because once you open it up costs go through the roof. To the diehard 2JZ boys Papadakis racing just made 1000hp with a B58 and like a 2JZ there were new rods pistons etc so if you hate the Supra because it's not a 2JZ then go and buy a new car with one in, oh that's right you cant.
This is what people should understand. They also complain as if they had the money to buy and fully build any car, when they're probably just driving a $500 honda to which they still owe the money to their friends or parents lol anyways, I'm super happy with my F30 N55, may build it later once payments are done, it's current limit on stock internals is 750hp, but it's not like I'm gonna be competing professionally as it is just a hobby lol who knows, maybe I'll B58 swap it, as you never know if it'll become the new 2j/LS swap norm
The difference is that papdakis racing did TON of modifications to the head and fuel system and even had to cnc cut many parts to even make it work. It wasn't as easy as making 1000 hp as the 2JZ, or way more people would be doing it.
@@carterdavis2793 there's a B58 out there making 900hp with way less work done compared to what papadakas did to his B58(yes his has 1000hp im just using this one as a example). Plus this is a new engine it's gotta start somewhere and parts don't magically work so it's going to take time for them to make parts for it to make 1000hp.
@@carterdavis2793 Part of the reason its not done like this is because Papdakis was the first, now people know how its done, likely see more. BTW 2JZ's were not making 1000 Hp immediately either, it took a few years to develop them.
@@carboydorifutoparty3976 yeah tru you're completely right. Hopefully the aftermarket catches up quickly.
man you explane everthing so perfect .. really like your channel
Came here for all the triggered 2JZ fam boys and the comments didn’t disappoint! 😂
I am.acutally a imaginary 3 JZ fan.
I’m assuming you vape with a customized BMW badge
I am assuming that you dont know the true legend of the 2jz and why everybody is angry that toyota used a german engine for their revive of a true JDM hero
@@mehmetkara1513 I learned my lesson about cars that aren't that good by buying a new Bmw e46 m3.German engineering at it's best.Rod bearing failure,sub frame failure,vanos failure,shitty interior ect.Toyota buyers are going to learn what Bmw buyers already know that Bmws are not that good.
Your the type of guy that would accept a woman as your father 😂 😂 😂 😂
I'm not an engineer but surely it's about emissions, an engine made 20 years ago might be a fantastic engine but would struggle to meet modern emissions standards, I'm led to believe that's why many cars of that type and time were killed off.
Emissions are all in tuning.
Hellcat has entered the chat
and EPA mandated fuel economy (even more so)
This mans coming in with an emissions argument XDDDD what are you from the Green party???
@@Matt-rc5hf no, his point is that you could never make a 2JZ work today in a new car. That's in response to lots of peeps who think Toyota could've just dropped the 2JZ in the new Supra.
The 2jzfse was a direct injection version. People have avoided it like the plague but it exists.
I have both. There are pro's and con's with each one of them. I love the simplicity of the 2J GTE. Time will tell for the B58, but I'm excited to see how it does 10 years from now. I bought into the platform mainly because of how fast its growing and how well it is doing.
well . B58 is superb engine . But KEEP THAT B58 OUT OF JDM !!!!! it ruins jdm ! if u wanna tune b58 go buy BMW not A90 !!
@@helpcnarinceoglume b58 is a fone engine for the supra
a worthy successor in my opinion
@@catalintimofti1117 then get smoked by same engine but on bmw m2cs. and its 15k cheaper + 50 bhp (432)
@@helpcnarinceoglume toyota tunes the b58 on the supra if i remember corectly
@@helpcnarinceoglume lol.... my Supra eats em alive.... and is cheaper by 40k in my country I will take my BMWyota please
b58 more torque better response better fuel economy and make more power in stock trim or with simple bolt on like a simple tuned
Adding more tech increases the chances of the car having reliability issues, it's a given. A rule of thumb if you like. All German cars are amazing with their tech and their performance, but most of them are not reliable at all and cost fortunes to repair. The 2JZ and the b58 are similar but the only turn off for me is the overengineering of the engine.
Def not. The 2JZ is way more capable. 2JZ Iron Block vs aluminum block.
@@Gone_Rogue300 Do you have any idea how much power you'd have to be making before that becomes the limiting factor? The B58 uses the same basic block as the B57 Diesel which runs over 50PSI of boost in stock form and people have these modded to even higher boost pressures making over 600lb⋅ft of torque on a completely stock block.
You'd have to be making well into 4 digits hp on the B58 before you have to worry about the strength of the block itself.
And in fact when tuners are looking to make really big power with a 2JZ base for racing they ditch the iron block altogether and get a billet aluminium block. Iron is strong but you can make an aluminium engine just as strong and past a certain point heat is a bigger concern than pressure.
@@Gone_Rogue300 aluminum/magnesium alloy...
@@Gone_Rogue300 be quiet dude.
Great perspective on the engines.
UPDATE AFTER A YEAR----- I personally own an n55 AND b58 and I'm very active in the forums, b58 has long surpassed 1000hp with a built bottom end and has long surpassed 800hp with a totally stock engine. The only times it breaks is when the tuner fks up, CHEERS 🍻
where the video that shows it surpassing the 800 hp mark on stock bottom end??
So pretty much a literal modern 2jz, old 2jz was able to get 800stock and 1000hp with built bottom. It seems bmw has matched that
@@joelstatosky1817 a guy did 1300 crank hp on stock 2JZ bottom end. Did like 6 dyno pulls and 7 runs down the 1/4 mile.
As i asked before, where is the video of the B58 exceeding 1000 hp on stock bottom end. Nobody has done it yet
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam Running 1300 on stock 2jz bottom end is just stupid, The reliability once you hit over 800 decreases exponentially. Which is why a majority of people didn't go for 1000hp with stock bottom
@@joelstatosky1817 800 crank hp was back in the late 90s and early 2000's when the computers were less sofisticated. Today ecu's are way more advanced so tunning is more precise which allows them to tune 200 more hp safetly.
There are a lot more 1000 crank hp Supras running around today on stock bottom end reliably.
The b58 has already broke 1000 HP.
not on stock bottom end
Not stock internals.
If there really was a focus on high end development then Toyota could have (perhaps) accessed the new S58 motor - which is for racing and highend development. The B58 motor in my M340i is absolutely phenomenal, smooth, revs and extremely fuel efficient. 382 horsepower and 500Nm in standard form with a closed deck alloy block and head. It's a world beater. I think Toyota have got the right motor!
imagine being the stupid middle schooler that comments “should’ve used the 2jz”
Shouldve just put a prius engine in it if it doesnt matter. Maybe an old LS or some sad KIA or VW engine
Respect the middle schoolers. I really want to see someone slap a B58B30 into a MK4
@@user-mx1fq6qm6i Absolutely not.
@@Matt-rc5hf Stephan Papadakis (that built a 1000hp MK5 Supra with the B58B30) plans on doing it
Imagine being the brain dead adult thinking the B series is a better engine and more capable than a 2JZ. Stay off the huge rocks before posting noob.
People don’t understand that through emissions auto makers can’t go back and remake old engines again. It would be embarrassing if the b58 wasn’t better than the 20 year old 2JZ. As time goes on, engines are stronger and better. But don’t forget the b58 is direct injected. DI can make more power with same bore and stroke.
Really nice comparison summary!
Two of the best sounding engines of all time! Just bought my first bmw 440I with the b58. 👌 the low end tq is amazing!!
Sooo, 2 months later and we are already over 1000hp... Think about 20 Years from now, took years to accomplish 1000hp from a 2jz, and only months for the b58
but how reliable will the b58 be with 1000hp over time? that is the true question....you can fully build any car to 1000 hp tbh if the block is fully built. but the 2jz is known to handle 800 hp STOCK bottom end....try doing that with a b58
@@brucelee7283 well there's already some B58s pushing 800hp on stock internals just like the 2j RN...over that the rods start bending(coming from what people say)or u could take that change and make a bit over 800hp on stock rods and still take that risk of them bending. And this is fairly new engine so it's still going to need time to even touch 1000hp since its barely got a aftermarket as big as the 2jzs 2 decade old aftermarket that's been around for way longer. It's already more than likely thats its going to handle 1000hp on stock block and bottom end since there just derived from a diesel and making more than that it might need to be sleeved afterward.
don't get me wrong the b58 has great potential and it is a new engine, but i think Toyota should've made an exclusive successor to the 2jzgte. the only reason people say the b58 is the "superior" motor is because it is built with new technologies and manufacturing processes, and was engineered recently with new and fresh ideas. do that with a 2jz successor and lets see which one is truly superior. the fact that people feel the need to argue that b58 motor is better than 2jz is kinda sad considering the 2jz is a 20 year old motor.
@@brucelee7283 I don't see it. Toyotas the type of company that's trying to save money in the process while making a completely new car plus i6 would probably result them into cutting corners since they strictly wanted it's price to be within its competition and not like some lexuses like the rcf and end up being expensive in it's first year production run.
they also needed 42-45 psi to do it. JZ's do so with less boost.
GOOD job, good video, very clear explanation.
Love all the information thanks
When a brand new engine has to compete with a 20 year old engine, that shows how good the 2jz is, period.
skua stone big facts
That doesnt make any sense. All of those previous Gen. Supras came with only inline6. So Naturally people will compare a successer to its former self. Supra was dead for 20 years and when it revived with the B58, its normal that people compared it with previous generation. I know that B58 is made by BMW but its not necessarily a bad thing. Both of the motors are great on their own..
Emission and eficiency also diifferent too.
@@abhinashpattanaik5109 know your role and shut your mouth lol 😂
@@mehmetkara1513 Do not use words you do no know the definition of, millennium 💩, lol 😂
But the reason for making the power is to go fast. Within a few months of its release, the A90 Supra is firmly in the 10s with a couple of bolt ons, in the 9s with nitrous and is only getting quicker.
Great video
Keep it up 👍🏼
Man. AWESOME video!
The cams on the b58 will also mean that it will still be a fuel efficient daily, so at least it has that.
I get like 24 miles per when I keep my foot in it. 31 when I drive my car right.
28mpg average I’m getting (U.K.)
@@mikybrice fbo stage 2 with hard burble I'm getting 21
It's amazing how much a car can change in two months lol
That’s a b58 in an m140i so might be different to it in a supra
I came from the future, the b58b30 allready hit 8sec in 1/4 mile and 800whp on stock internals
Still has to beat 7sec with a 1800hp 2jz
@@Matt-rc5hf those drag engines are barely a 2JZ. Once you start diving into Billet blocks and turbos bigger than the steering wheel is it really the same engine?
@@Enthusiastlist Sure but then papadopoulos supra is not a B58. Besides it fair to say the B58 beats the 2jz on tech alone. It would be interesting to see the 2jz run on the same tech
@@Matt-rc5hf 2JZ is likely impossible to reproduce with modern tech due to emissions standards. BMW already had to update the B58 due to emissions. Also what Papadakis did to the B58 isn’t out of line of what you’d have to do to a 2JZ to hit 1khp.
Very informative video!
Good information
Thanks
Funny how many people comment about these two engine like if they were mechanical engineers lol 😂
Jack Russelle I agree with you lol
I am an M/E and I like both.
lmao u win this comment section
@@southernstyle8835 I disagree with you. Lol
Something else to consider is that BMW seems to be putting the B58 in a lot of vehicles so there will be lots of them around a decade from now, where as a good 2jz-gte is getting harder to find.
BMW parts are never cheap
@@AnthonyParrilloRItoyota parts are?
@@dennis-br6vr yes actually
@@AnthonyParrilloRI2JZ parts aren't cheap bruh
@@borla4491 internals are around the time. Intakes, manifolds, exhausts all cheaper. Way Less electronics to worry about. Built 2jz's sell for 30k with 200k+ on them for a reason.
thank you for the infos!
both are amazing engines i love them both
People are stupid, does anyone really believe Toyota has all the tooling for the 2jz in a storage locker somewhere deep in Japan
fanboys be like engineers and killing each other in the comments and im here enjoying what i read, those dudes aint even got the real thing and yet speaks like they already tuned one.
NO SUPRA BOOOOOSSST NO SHIT 2JZ POWRR BETTER B58 TURD BMW MOTOR BAD NO NO SUPRA 2JZ NO SHIT111!1!!1!1 MAKE 3000000HP BONE STOCK 100BSI GORRET TURBO BOOOOOOOOSSSSST PAUL BLART REST IN PEACE SUPRA PILOT
I've never tuned a car for myslef but i have overhaul and clean an engine just to make it run smooth its just small engine nothing big
@@mehmetkara1513 I would consider myself an overhauler rather than a tuner now adays the meaning of tuner is very vague
@@mayuravirus6134 tuner these days is "make it pop and shoot flames"
@@ellisjackson3355 That is 2 step except for Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 2 GSR which is a homologation of Group B in the ECU itself from the factory already had anti-lag its not cheap the price for today after 26 years stock 4G63T factory cost almost Mk4 Supra
I like your videos, well presented and well narrated with good facts.
Keep up the good work.
As much as I'd like to like the BMW engine, it looks disposable to me.
Hey friend, can you do a video on a B18a&b everything I need to know Integra LS motor.. I'ma check if you made one already brb
B58 also gets me 34mpg @75mph
It gets 34 MPG because of the direct injection but direct injection systems get less efficient with higher boost levels. Papadakis racing built a 1000 HP B58 and they ended up tossing the DI injectors and filling the holes with pressed in aluminum dowels (retaining only the port injectors) because the DI injection system was too inefficient and unpredictable at those power levels. Stock for stock, the B58 is better, but once you start putting down some power, the 2J shines in the ease and reliability department over the B58. The complexity of the B58 leads me to believe that it might not be as long term reliable as the 2JZ, but only time will tell I guess.
@@GioGuitarDude Well maybe the fact that the injectors melted also had a part in the fact they had to remove them as well.
@Shndon430 Hurtado Bro that's a common issue in direct injection engines when they go for this kind of tunes, Papadakis explained it on detail and even a current Toyota engine would go through the same.
Bro ur videos are amazing. Watched all ur Honda vids. I live in Orlando and titan motorsports has a 2020 Supra running 10.8’s, saw that car run with my own eyes. The supras look so solid, sound great, and they launch hard.... idk what anyone says about the new supras they’re gonna be fast!
We know they are going to be fast but not as fast as a beef up 2JZGTE set up.
Great videos
Thanks
Thanks for watching!
What are the overall dimensions of the b58? Considering it for a swap, but having trouble finding it's exact size
Having watched the papadakis videos, I think over time the opinion of the B58 will improve. It's closed deck, it has plenty of meat between the cylinders and it's modern - something I think a lot of people overlook is how much stronger aluminium blocks have become over the years, especially with motors built for boost (check out what people are doing with VR38s now). Cast iron being a stronger block is not a given (RB26 anyone?)
Much like every new performance engine, we will have to wait a while to find out its true potential. Do people think that the moment 2JZs hit the market that people were immediately pushing them to 800+ horsepower on stock bottom ends? Of course not, that wasn't happening on any significant scale until the motors got more common and much cheaper so people were more willing to risk a catastrophic failure. The reputation of the 2JZ was built over time, as will be the reputation of the B58.
Even the JDM fanboys will realize what we in Europe have known for years. BMW has the best engines right now on the market.
They are preparing to become one of the only manufacturers of internal combustion engines for enthousiasts once the world has gone electric.
ThaJay i agree with you. Other companies start to shift their orientation into hybrid and ev. Leaving fosile engine forever. While some of european manufactures still giving some dedication for it. It's multibillion decision so with all restriction going on them i will give them aplause for their creation.
And it's still going strong 4 years later
@PapadakisRacing managed to squeeze out 1000hp from the B58 engine on their latest video upload
yea on a BUILT motor. Nothing in that motor is stock. He put almost $100k into that motor.
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam Yet it was stock block . And it took years for the 2JZ to get over 1000hp on stock block
@@charlesbakston7414 it was NOT A STOCK BLOCK JACK ASS ...
IT WAS A FULLY BUILT BOTTOM END WITH CUSTOM PISTONS, RODS AND CRANK ... Get your facts correct before spitting out BULLSHIT ...
@@charlesbakston7414 and yes it took yrs for the 2JZ to reach 1000 crank hp due to limited technology and fuel that we now have today TO APPLY TO THE B58, USE SOME BRAINS WHY DONT YOU ...
when your precious B58 hits 2000 hp like the 2jz block does, then we can talk, until then SHUT IT
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam Hey stupid. There's already B58s hitting over 800+ Horsepower along with a few hitting over 1000HP.
Shut the fk up
I can’t afford any of this shit, but as a computer guy, and a new driver, I totally get why this is an addicting hobby.
the gall of this man!
Over time I can imagine the valve springs in the head break over time with age. What would that do to the b58 engine if that happens?
Not to mention the P L A S T I C
Amano Yuuji they aren’t plastic they are steel. They look like clothes peg springs.
@@daviddoyle2085 say that when a water pulley is not a plastic in a BMW
@@mayuravirus6134 there’s no plastic in engine components. Plastic wouldn’t last 5 minutes under the strain of a taught pulley, the cam and valve springs are all steel. The only aluminium parts in the engine are the block and casing and the plastics the engine covers.
B58 will be able to get more than enough HP with simple mods. I don't need 800+ HP.
The B58 would be lighter improving handling plus have better efficiency.
The B58 everyday of the week for me.
Peter Bate I agree with your opinion. your opinion is like mine!
Yes yes. A stock 2JZGTE with upgraded turbo and injector will make 800 HP reliably.
until you have to do maintenance
@@SamFBM Exactly. You forgot this car is really a BMW, and they have proved to be nothing but trouble without exceptions. It is left to be seen if the Toyota QC has improved this.
be honest you are payed to say a few good words for the B58
Man your videos are informative and entertaining afff keep up the good work bro
Thanks, man! 😁😁
You wanna see a REAL crank girdle? Check out the Mazda KL series V6 engines. They're split crankcase like a racing motorcycle engine. The blocks crankcase actually splits in two around the crank and IS the bottom half of the block and is bolted together with sealant. In all my years I've never seen a road car engine with a split crankcase. INSANE rigidity out of that bottom end. Also has ribbing in all the right spots. Downside? Fully open deck. The design is REALLY interesting, however. Almost makes me think it was a homologation engine that found no use, so they lightened it up, weakened it a bit and slapped it in road cars.
Power figures for a KL-ZE is 200hp. From a late 80s designed 2.5L V6. Always had respect for that engine.
BMW spends a lot of money on there R and D for their engines. To think a engine from 20 years ago would be better is dumb. I love the MK4 and the MK5 both amazing cars
Great video and two great engines in there own right. The b58 will just be a pain to work on as it gets older with more moving parts, more plastic parts and the timing chain on the back side of the engine. It reminds me of how the b6s4 was great till you had timing chain and guide problems on the back of the engine requiring engine pulls and now you dont see that car anymore. The 2jz is ancient but still more reliable with less moving parts, very little plastic parts, easier to work on and all major components accessible without an engine pull. The BMW supra will be a good daily driver with the b58 while under warranty but when it starts falling apart or timing chain issues start happening most people are not going to deal with those problems and trade it in for the next new shiny thing with planned obsolescence. 2jz is better and a great value for diy guys, 30 minutes of research will show this.
Absolutely! I have 2jz-ge in a Lexus gs300 and it is a pleasure to work on. I've yet to encounter a BMW that I enjoyed working on.
You are just assuming that all BMW timing chains are going to break within 4 or 5 years just because it is a German car. Some BMW models are notorious for rod bearing issues but I have never heard, experience or seen a BMW model with timing chain issues.
@@kamikazee3071 I like BMW cars but when doing research on them over the years it just seems that BMW has had planned obsolescence in there business model for far to long not providing the consumer with value. But to each there own.
@@nismo2070 yes, I too like working on the 2jzge in my is300 and love it even more now that its manual swapped with lsd.
Jice Z true but a lot of luxury car brands are just like that. Lexus don’t offer performance for the price. Acura Tls and some SUVs have transmission issues and etc... BMW 7 series after e38 are one of the worst. But just like most brands if you do research on models you are interested, they will treat you right.
I love how there are only about 30k supras sold and yet everyone acts like they could own one. They really expected Toyota to develop an entire engine for the Supra.
For real.
They had YEARS TO PREPARE everyone came out With a bang dodge, Chevy,ford,Nissan,Mercedes, like fuck even Subaru but your telling me one of the most trusted and respected companies couldn’t give it all they had on what is likely to be the last era and set of combustion engines yay my ASS ofc we wanted a new engine for the Supra but they got lazy
@@A_SIMPLE_JOURNEY You sound stupid arrogant lmao. The 2JZ engine been out of production since the very early 2000s!
And for the record the 2JZ doesn't belong to the Supra. It actually belongs to the Toyota JZA147/Lexus GS Sedan which been out LONG before the existince of the Supra A80 MK4 (that existed from the Lexus SC Coupe!)
@@A_SIMPLE_JOURNEY It would've been to fkn expensive for Toyota to make any inline engine. And for the record, the 2JZ was in different platforms, long before the MK4 A80 Supra. Why would Toyota spend and waste too much money on a engine for just one vehicle that won't sell in high numbers , along with making the vehicle expensive as the Honda NSX? Go figure
@@A_SIMPLE_JOURNEYlet’s be honest with the Supra targeting a sub 60k mrsp price tag how much better really could Toyota actually make an inline 6 turbo engine on dedicated sports car platform with a fast shifting automatic and manual tranny all from scratch at this price point the lfa project was a financial disaster it took 10 years in development and cost more then the Ferrari 458 it sold horribly when it was launch and was slower then it’s Italian and German rivals with a worst shifting outdated use gearbox while other we’re going dct.
Gotta love that they already recalled the entire vehicle not even 6 months into sales
This isn't one of the cars that their recalling.....
Great Info! Question! I have a 2011 E93 Msport N55. I'm looking to tune it, do bigger intercooler, cold air intake, a upgraded charge pipe, and exhaust! What's your suggestions, and what kind of power could I expect!?
steven johnson 450-500 hp.. maybe more.
@@SLIDEWAYZ_TY that's where I want to be. Any suggestions for the brands of the mod parts that would most efficiently work on my car?
@@deaconstevej1 a Garrett g25-660 is a good turbo to start with. It's for 1.5-3 litre engines and can add up to 300 hp. With a bigger intercooler, new injectors, and a fuel pump, it should be enough to get 500-600 hp
@@vanillevaschnille9336 Man! Those are solid numbers to go after! Thanks! Is there a specific type of aftermarket set of injectors that would be a good match with the mods you mentioned outside of Bosh?
@@deaconstevej1 Bosch injectors would be the best option in this case.
2jz is the best , no direct injection is better , iron block is better , shorter rods is stronger ...
iron block means more weight and short rods make less power than long ones and increase piston wear.. meh
I guess that means that the VR38 and LSX are weak then?
@@turnip5465 long rods actually increase piston wear because piston speed increases regardless of rpm
@@KevinDeanTaylor no lol a shorter rod ratio comes with increased rod angularity which increases wear and friction on the piston. Speeds have nothing do to with rods but with the stroke and rpm..
@@turnip5465 you're the one who said short rods make less power than long ones and increase piston wear. Increased stroke makes the piston travel further up and down. Since the amount of time allowed for this movement is not increased,the piston speed increases with a stroked crank (piston must move a further distance in the same amount of time). This will cause the pistons to wear more quickly. If you have you have 2 engines, one with a long stroke and one with s short stroke, operating at the same rpm the short stroke engine will always last long because the piston is barely moving in the bore. That's why bikes and F1 teams use such short strokes so that they can rev them to the moon and keep the piston speed reasonable. The angle of the piston is also better because there isn't a long stroke pulling the rod from side to side as much.
Either way both are highly rated ,I think partly the jz sound and power is what people are missing .
My B58 had been flawless for 8k miles but just developed a misfire. Probably just a coil though so i don't think it's serious.
1jz for me
Same
The 2JZ was good for it’s time. However it’s a heavy engine and probably couldn’t pass modern emissions. The BMW B58 is lighter, emissions compliant and powerful. Apples and Oranges really.
its, not it's
Doesn’t the b58 have direct injection and injectors after the throttle body?
I love the b58 and n54 and n55 but no one in here is talking about the s55. It too is a 3.0L I6 but it also has a twin turbo setup like the 2jz-gte. And with a single turbo conversion like most people would do to the 2j it to can make amazing power numbers.
The true beast of inline 6 is the s58 that engine is a true beast it’s the only engine that can actually make 1000hp on pure stock internal with just turbo swap it will Make 800 on bone stock engine with just e85 tuned fucking insane engine.
Fan boys will say 2JZ before even hearing the facts then still say 2JZ even though they have the facts right in front of them proving them wrong.
Fanboys 😭😭bitch the engine is 20 years old and comes from and era with less technology and efficiency systems yet it’s easier to fix, can more power as good as any, sounds amazing, can be put in just about anything, and will continue to drive on the road long after that trash bmw engine gets put on a tow truck 😭😭calling ppl fanboys because they respect what hard working engineers put their minds together to accomplish you sound like you have no brain cells stop smoking that Bull shit🤦🏿
Yep
N54 is the second legend.
TheSaintST1 Or the 3rd?
for me s85 is the best drifting engine but not the best for reliability
Glad this guys got a 2j & b58 to pull down & compare the 2 😑
Good video, what's the trans good for wtq?
I'd say no one knows yet since some mk5s are still running stock trans running near or a bit over 800hp. There's already a B58 340i with 900hp still with stock trans that hasn't blown up yet(noting from the company saying it's blown yet)so it'll take a good amount of power. Or just swap the demons/hellcats trans since it's related to the mk5s trans.
Ya seems like 800, people with over 800 have experienced some trans problems already.... but thats still pretty good if you ask me
The most insane thing can happens: BMW give Supra the P60B40 V8 of the M3 GTR
I'd rather see a Lexus V12 in it if we are going to leave the I6.
@@BionicBurke It would need a second pair of front wheels to carry it.
@@BionicBurke Did you mean V10 because Lexus never made V12 or rather Toyota never made V12 available for Lexus and there is V12 swapped 98 Supra by Smoky Nagata that thing made 917hp
@@mayuravirus6134 I did indeed, whoops...
I would have much rather for Toyota put the old band back together by collaborating with Yamaha again to make a new and improved inline 3JZ. Not to mention that BMW’s lack of reliability doesn’t have Toyota enthusiast ecstatic about the new Supra.
But it will use IS or ES chassis that will be twisted in 1000 hp without streghtening.
Make great engine useless
Actually BMW engineers designed that 2jz engine but Toyota is taking the credit
Totally agree. You think Yamaha which is part owned by Toyota would not improve on the 2J VVTI head? They are just stupid lazy people. I'll stick to the Nissan GTR. The dam Supra should have been getting a 4WD system, not go borrow a BMW and slap a badge on it and do a little tweaking.
@@caribbeangtr8077 lol I am a Nissan guy also RB and GTR
@@vee950 If BMW desined the 2JZ, it means they designed all the Toyota Twin cams. There is no visable difference betweena 7MGTE, 1GGTE and a 2JZGTE. And they strongly resemble the 3SGTE and 4AGE design.
I know lots will not like this but the B58 engine is so good and is defiantly the best engine I have ever used long term. I have only driven the Supra with the 2JZ in for a short time and it was fun but For me the B58 wins.
great vid, no wonder b58 sounds so different than n55 🤔 2 exhaust port
It's the single turbo, all the cylinders fire on one port, why do you think the S54 sound so bad, because the headers are split 123/456, but the firing order is 153/264.
not all B58's have the integrated exhaust manifold. The higher output B58's, like that on the top model Z4, have individual runners.
These new A90 Supras are running 10 seconds and 11 seconds in 1/4 mile with basic tune / mods. A car that just went into sale just a few months ago.
How much time did it take for a JZA80 Supra to run 10 seconds since its introduction in 1993? It took years (I think it was 1997-1998 when Vinny Ten ran 10 seconds with his modified JZA80 Supra)
Shitty comparison because technology is available now we didn't have back then, turbos wastegate, tuneable ecus, you couldn't tune a Supra when it came out you had to get a crap ton of piggy backs and very few standalone computers were even available let alone compatible with Japanese cars. Now you can buy a car and flash it in 30minutes have 30 more horsepower in nearly any turbo car
The B58 engine have been running 10's and 11's for years in different BMW cars. But the supra and other cars and trucks have been running 10's and 11's since 2000 or the late 90's.
Besides back in the mid 90's Mitsubishi 3000 VR4 had more hp than most sport cars doing it's era but you paid for it too. Hennessy broke world records with that car back in the day. The only difference between the engines was 1was a straight 6 twin turbo and the other was a V6 twin turbo making more stock hp than the 2JZGTE. The only difference was the Mitsubishi cost $20,000 more than the supra and it was faster because of the all wheel drive set up.
@@robertbrown1933 that not the "only difference" dude that simplifies a lot of shit between the two car that's not at all simple... The Supra was sequential turbo the vr4 was parallel twins. One 2wd one awd. And the awd only helps with 0-60 and 60ft . After that the extra weight and drivetrain loss from being awd actually gets in the way. A couple of breather mods on the 2jz opened it up ALOT same with vr4 but it was also way more complicated. The 3000gt vr4 was technologically insane had tons of shit the most expensive cars at the time didn't have or barely just brought to market. Vr4 was ahead of it's time but also plagued by just being in the wrong market
Lmao garbage ass comparison that like comparing a ps1 to a ps5 and saying one downloads faster when technology was as advanced as it is now dumb ass point😭😭
Can you do a Barra 270 video?
Added to the to-do list 😀
@@Dustrunnersauto
Appreciate it, down in Australia, all we talk about is 2JZ vs Barra (Inlines not V8) vs RB vs LS basically.
Keep up the good work mate ;)
Wikipedia has a good list of Barra information and I hear the LPG model is built better like the later stock turbo barra's,
FG Falcon is my daily, but they use barra in a lot of cars and SUV here, like police vehicles and taxis.
I wish I can get my hands on a barra here in the U.S I have a rb25 in my 240
But people in U.S making 2jz and Ls a big thing when you guys in Australia to me have the most dangerous and powerful I6 to many don't know about a barra
@@vee950
This video may interest you
th-cam.com/video/y5zsZ8Fc0kQ/w-d-xo.html
Good vid
Not spraying the intake valves? with no gas spraying to clean those valves won't they start to crap out unless I'm wrong?
mark lempert yea carbon buildup is a prob on direct injection can get a walnut blast or run meth
B58 have too many plastic parts ... 2JZ is still the strongest Inline 6 to this day
The 2j also has plastic in it too.....
@@carboydorifutoparty3976 Does it have plastic water pump!?
@@mayuravirus6134 I don't think so. B58s come with either or a mechanical water pump or a plastic. I can't say if the mk5s does since B58s go throw some part updates that either get changed switched or taken out for something different per year.
Barra ford engine
@@346pro there junk
What 2 jz has made it without being modified?
Is the 2jzgte and the 2jzgte vvti have the same block end and internals?
Same internals just weaker parts but the ge has a better compression ratio than the gte.
A90's need the Z4 cyl head. that integrated EX port shit fine for stock stuff not making big power. And we'll see about those super thin liners reliability when under real abuse.
Either do that or wait for next years mk5s. There supposed to have the same heads as the Z4 but more power.
2jz u still think is better less parts to break
Its is also well proven; make humongous amount of power and torque. The VVTi is very capable. Toyota has the capabilities to improve on it itself or using Yamaha without breaking the bank. The MFkrs are simply lazy and stupid.
@@caribbeangtr8077 so true especially the last part Honda is pushing the boundaries but for reason Toyota is joking
@@truckingjamaicans5045 profit vs market failure. Which do u choose if u were the manufacturer. A car thats co developed, still fun,and will have a chance to bring in a sea of new buyers with a attainable starting price vs a unattainable car that's way to expensive rarely being bought,has been sitting in dealer lots for who knows how long and barely has a existing aftermarket. And Toyotas capabilities on making a tunable/performance engine for a street car that won't break the bank nor will be overweight is pretty low especially looking at how people rarely ever touch the RCF or any of the "performance made" lexuses they've made that people barely touch for performance mods other than stance and slamming. Looking at the old/new sports cars they make now it's obvious that they've been asking other companies to co develop their sports cars or just rip another Toyota models parts or design to make another car.
B58 because I do not need 1000 hp and I don't need turbo lag
That's why you have a regular basis BMW right? They come from the factory fast.
great comparisons and yes it is quite early to tell..but the older design being less complex is what makes the older 2JZ reliable..newer cars with newer technology would require more maintenance in the long run..but im sold..the fact that new motors are direct injection should help with longevity by keeping cooler cylinder temps..that alone is amazing.
With the b58 the head is the biggest performance restriction. The head design on both the intake and exhaust prevent a much larger camshaft to be used. Then the 2 port internal exhaust design.
Then the direct injection system.
You may see 800whp out of them with added port fueling, but that’s about it imo. The only good thing about the engine is some of the oil drain ports and scavenge, you didn’t mention those.
If I remember correctly its modular and can probably be swapped out with another B58 head(which are traditionally 6 port exhaust heads which makes it off on why Toyota made them 2)
People have made 800 on a 100% stock fuelsystem
@@danielbjors8460 So does 2jz without it having reliability issues
@@mayuravirus6134 oh really. People have made 800hp on the stock 550cc injectors. Now that's something i did not know😂😂
2JZ swapping the new supra is a special thing. Id love to see that.
Damogan g they’ve done it already
Damogan g good hks supra
It sounds weird saying this lol
For the same boost levels a B58 will make way more than a 2JZ
haha no you can make a 900hp on 30psi with a 2jz
sam that’s cute, 8.5 lbs of boost on a S85 makes 850 hp,
also breaks down way faster
Graham Frame lol trying to start sound clout 😂😂😂 2JZ vs B58!
Turbo sizing speaks more than that. Bigger turbo flows more air on the same boost than smaller turbo
The MKIV supra was also under rated hp wise. The 320 crank hp was wrong because they were putting down 300-310 whp in stock form which put it at ~360 crank hp .... back in 93 ..!!!
With all the major bolt ons, now your talking 400 crank hp.
Does the BMW engine break down in the counterfeit Supra as much as it does in the other BMW cars?
Well its a bmw/toyota motor. Toyota modified it
The B58 is pretty reliable so far, actuqlly
Literally this debate is
Fanboys VS Facts
JCBeFree facts are facts. The 2jz is a monster motor.
@@TheBb6prelude it's old technology
M3forMe valid point. Maybe a revision of the 2j would have been nice
@@TheBb6prelude a revision of the JZ would never happen because Toyota would need to buy all new tooling to produce it again and the R&D costs needed to bring it up to modern standards would make any 3JZ equipped car pointlessly expensive to not sell at a loss.
@@TheBb6prelude once again i see u everywhere, a true car enthusiast huh
Maybe Toyota was afraid to make a new engine because they thought they could not make one as good as the 2JZ. In reality it was simple for Toyota to use the 2jz original block design but in aluminum, make it 3.4L. Work the air flow of the cylinder head, better intake, add mechanical fuel pump so it can have direct fuel injection, some 15 psi of boost. And work done. That would hit 500hp out the box.
They obviously can
But the problem of developing Supra actually didn't lie on engine, but chassis
Lol..toyota afraid to build r cnt build.ur joking rite more like cost cut.thats why bmw comes in.bmw is junks
I guess all that was missing was you on the development team 🤷🏿♂️
Its all about money
And euro 2 emissions 🤣
Crank does handle over 1000 hp, Stephan Papadakis already built and engine dyno tested with proof.
It all depends on what the person wants a race car or a daily driver. But I'd rather get a proven and tested then a maybe and probably can be any day.
The 2JZ GTE is the God of inline 6!
Then the Barra,6BT,TB48,RB30,1FZ,and chevy 250 i6 aren't.
Definitely the GOD
No bra you should do some research on the ford barra I've seen videos guys making 1200 all motor no turbo and seen them almost 3000 hp turbocharged
Let's compare an engine from 2019 to an engine from 1991. No duh the engine from 2019 is better than a now 28 year old engine platform. That's like comparing a carburated engine to a direct fuel injection engine.
Next you're going to tell me OBD2 is better than OBD1!
@rockn roll Pretty sure he didn't HAVE to make this video. It's not like the world would have gotten hit by a meteor if he didn't.
The dumbest comment I’ve read so far
@@NatedoggZombies Yeah, reading your argument is pretty dumb.
This video needs to be updated as there is much more info on the engine in 2021.
And even a year later the b58 comes from factory with 400 horsepower
Need to see 2jz vs S55
Toyota: if we make the supra it would be too expensive.
Chevrolet: hold my beer
C8 aint cheap to buy!! Thats definitely not a 60 grand car,Buddy!!
Abinash Pattanaik
The supra is 55k the vette os 59k although having a new platform and built by chevy.
The Zupra has an already built platform (z4), already built engine and transmission (the B58), and they’re built in Austria. They should be cheaper than 20k
@@BF109G4 55k which is fully loaded, with all the bells and whistles and all those essential safety features. On the otherhand, check the 1LT variant and see for yourself how basic it is!!! If you're gonna buy a C8, atleast buy the 2LT trim with Z51 package!! Thats the real deal. Last week, i too wanted to buy the C8 but ended up buying the Supra and saved nearly 20k. Plus there was frontal visibility issue with the C8. So Supra was chosen as my dad could drive it easily without any fuss!
Abinash Pattanaik
Fully loaded with BS.
The “heavy loaded” supra has nothing compared to a camry.
A basic c8 has more options and potential than the Zupra
BF109G you Know Why Chevy its cheaper?? b’coz its only cheap on American market when becomes to asian and europe its already much Expensive than a Supra !
B58 runs port and direct injection. Learnings from early di only motors, Intake valves get gunked from breather hose fumes.
Owned both Toyota and BMW. Toyota superior in all aspects of car manufacturing. My 91 MR2 turbo and other models with over 160k miles never gave me the problems my 80k miles BMW has. I hope for Toyota's sake partnering with Bavarian does not compromise the Supras legendary status as a well built and reliable sports car. And I'm talking stock and not HP monsters with insane numbers.
What is botom end?