@@redjhon2053 His comment was a reference to Papadakis "high rev tractor pulling sound" in the video. You still clearly haven't watched it, schizo.. 😂😂 I'll help you out 9:21
The "earlier" B58 they discuss is actually the later second gen B58. The B58TU is the engine they speak about. The two port exhaust is what BMW calls the "Medium output version" found in most later non-M Performance 40i cars. e.g. X5 xDrive40i, and apparently the supra. They use this in packages where space, cost, and efficiency are most important. Higher output second gen B58tu models, "High output version" , have 6 exhaust ports. E.g. G2X M340i, M440i, etc.. This second gen B58 also received various technology updates over the first gen, mostly to improve efficiency and emission control. All early first gen non-tu B58s had normal cylinder heads with individual exhaust ports. e.g. F2X M140i/M240i, F3X 340i, 440i, early G30 540i, early G12 740i, Early G01/G02 X3/X4 M40i models. This is the OG B58. Fantastic engine if you are considering buying one. Great to tune. Even better If left stock, the engine will likely outlive the BMW body it's inside of.
until the timing chain snaps. I'm not sure about the B58 specifically, but I've had it happen to me on my past BMW's and the chain on the B58 looks the same, a tiny little bicycle chain, and its on the back on the B58. I own my cars and drive a lot, so decided to stay away from the B58 when I saw that if anything they made their timing chain issue worse, I got an IS500 instead.
@@85CEKR Craig, with all due respect that's a concern relevant to any engine with a timing belt or chain, which is essentially every passenger vehicle on earth, save for rotaries and heavy duty gear driven engines. Not to mention, Toyota chose this BMW B58 engine as one for their own production long before the Is500 was even announced. If it's good enough for Toyota, it's good. There is nothing particularly noteworthy about the timing chain or guides in the B58, aside from it's simplicity, being an Inline-6 configuration. The chain is made by IWIS, which makes chains for just about every brand and industry on the planet. BMW doesn't produce chains. In-fact, your IS500 has an IWIS made timing chain that is twice as complicated as this B58 at minimum, being that it has two cylinder heads and two more camshafts. Being that your anecdotal prior experience with a BMW timing chain was negative, I'm glad you found a car you like! Albeit, such a compromise as an IS500 which is essentially a knock-off version of it's german counterparts. Cheers
@@XcoolcoolbeansbeansX it's really not nearly as much an issue with other brands, BMW is the only brand that has multiple class action lawsuits against them because of the issue, I'm part of 2 for 2 separate vehicles. And I'm not sure about the chain brand but I looked into this and the chains on all lexus/toyotas are massive compared to bmw's. The chain from our x3 was literally smaller than the one on my kids bicycle. When my x3 was at the dealer I managed to talk to a mechanic on break he said mine was one of 7 BMW's in there that day with a broken timing chain. If you want to dump alot of money into the B58 to bullet proof it and make a ton of power it's a great engine, if your a normal person I'm pretty skeptical. I've been a BMW fan boy for years and following them really close, everytime a new engine comes out it wins all these reliability awards and everyone praises them, then 6 or 7 years down the road reality sets in and people start to realize the truth, I suspect the B58 will be the same.
Fantastic interview loaded with a goldmine of info. Thank you so much for making these. You’re videos and podcasts are nothing short of exceptional. Thank you guys.
@@hpa101You look like a badass, genius, Gearhead Will Ferrell, bro. I appreciate your technical knowledge, I'm only 2 videos in, but you are now my new favorite channel because you're just casually chucking out extremely important that I need.
These videos are great for me, a beginner car guy, to understand the different ways people build for different motor sports. I've been binge watching for a few hours now and I can't get enough
The video series Stephan did where he took apart these engines for the first time and figured things out is pretty amazing. Recommended watch for sure.
I just picked up a blown B58, for $150 bucks, I just bought it to take it apart and see how it's built, lucky for me the head is still good, crank is done, block is done, but 5 rods and pistons survived, what I thought was weird is that it's not a 2 piece girdle blocks like the N54's.
@@SavageBunny1 the nice thing about the b58 is the thick windage tray... or more like a girdle that they use to help stiffen and tie the caps to the block, we find the caps start to walk around the 1000hp mark, the liners are good safely for 700whp, at 800 we find they start to speckle and flake.
I remember waaaay back seeing El’Papi in the back of JG building motors while we were randomly picking up 301/303 house cams for our LS motors back then lol. He was a bit chunky… now he looks so healthy :) Stephan was always so very nice and rather quiet back in those days. He’s come so far and that is awesome! He made some of the most iconic Honda builds back then and now he’s a giant in the industry. Good dood for sure!
Papadakis makes some of the neatest and most well organized videos out there. They seem to run their team in the same fashion as well. Wish they uploaded more frequently
The orange IROX rod bearings are of the first direct admissions by BMW that start-stop systems kills rod bearings. They realized this with the N series engines that had start-stop retrofitted later in production life. These engines were never designed for Start-stop. They are the reason why rod-bearing failures have been few and far between on BMW B series modular engines, N63TU2 and above V8 engines, N74TU and above V12 engines. This orange coating is a polymer that essentially allows the bearings to run with little or no oil pressure for a longer period over a traditional bearing, without significant damage. The side effects of these bearings are a fantastic and welcomed addition to all STOCK modern BMW engines (maybe not so much a 1200 HP race engine constantly running 90 PSI oil pres.). These are an added buffer against the ridiculously tight bearing clearances BMW chose to keep to this day. They make the bearings that much less sensitive to occasional oil starvation, which is inevitable in every engine's life (Cold starts, air gap after oil services, high G forces, steep hills, etc..) If I could, I would have IROX coated bearings in every engine I'd every have. This trend will hopefully catch on before the combustion engine is dead.
@@grein545 I'm sure it's sacrificial to some degree, eventually revealing what is a traditional rod bearing, which is still fine technically. In our experience, we have yet to see a rod-bearing fail under normal use on any of the newer engines with the IROX bearings.
@@MrDAllen1124 Based on what? Forum posts? That opinion is a dime a dozen. Every old-head says the same thing. Those technologies have been around for decades, and while good, it's not for the same purpose. We've been through all that shit on the S54s, S65/85s, N54/55s, etc. for years. No matter what bearing you are running, you will be "relying on a coating to give you the result you want". Whether it's peened metal, or polymer, that's all a bearing is. In absence of oil film, the polymer coated bearings survive longer. In an ideal world, there would never be an absence of oil film. If that were the case, you could run the most basic single metal bearings on earth, forever, with no wear. Hope polymer coated bearings hit the main stream aftermarket someday.
I recognize lots of info from my S55 experience, i ended up controlling the oil pump at low load only and letting it go to its "emergency mode" at mid-high load. And fun fact, if i dont remember incorrectly, the plasma spray in the cylinders are almost double the thickness in the S55 compared to the B58 :)
youre spont on s55 does have a thicker plasma spray almost double,s55 is superiour in many ways,b58 has seen pre mature plasma wear on liner,some had to replace blocks at 40k miles.
@@durin23 That sounds like the usual teething troubles for a new bore treatment. The nikasil and alusil were the same in their first runs, settled down after a few years as the process matured.
Metallurgist here. @4:12 The "steel plasma sprayed lining" is probably not steel but nickel-based. Some nickel-aluminium plasma sprayed powder mix that forms a base of metallic nickel with NiAl intermetallic hard wearing particles embedded in it. Since nickel is also ferromagnetic, you'd get the same reacton to a magnet as if it were iron. (Similar to a Nickasil coating, but deposited by a different method.)
Whata awesome way to geek out listening to these two dudes. So the B58 is actually a sensational engine. SP did all the hardwork so we only need to build the unit
Andre is down right the best interviewer out there. so respectful and always complimenting and adding to the conversation. it was a delight watching this interview....
I love the way Andre irrespective of who he's talking to, breaks down what they've said so us laymen can understand. Give him a pat on the back from me Taz
Pap is one of the coolest, down to earth dudes I've ever met at a motorsports event! Full of both knowledge and patience. I know both HPA and Pap are both on tight schedules, but I would LOVE to see more of both of you together 😁😁
He's a real one to the industry for sure and we love talking to him. We have an older interview with him but if you haven't heard it already his podcast episode might scratch your itch nicely for now: th-cam.com/video/lrYpgQIXSSM/w-d-xo.html It is on Spotify, Apple Music etc too, just search for the title of 'Tuned In' - Taz.
I always knew it was going to prove capable because of how the N54 can go make 1000hp and 45psi on a _bone stock longblock and stock plastic intake_ lol. Not to mention, that car was stock DME, stock trans, and lasted for years and years of abuse 💀
The best A90 Supra channel I followed is Jackie Ding. He just boosted his car to 760 or 790whp on stock block. It's crazy. My next car will be a 2020-2021 M240i x-Drive. I am saving up.
This dude made best part of marketing for bmw gear heads around b58 ... I'm not saying that his shilling or was prepaid, but the tear down and full inspection of the engine convinced a lot of people to b58, especially tuning potential.
@@allboost70 not sure if it falls “very” short of 2jz, but my point was that it’s far better to tune stock than it’s bmw predecessors and he removed a lot of guess work for people trying “break the ground”. For example: not needing to dry sump it is a major good news, stock sleeves taking 1000hp, the list goes on.
🙋♂ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the VIP package with every current and FUTURE course included: hpcdmy.co/vipy10 🔧 Learn Engine Building today with 50% OFF your first course: hpcdmy.co/offery10 TIME STAMPS: 0:00 - Papadakis Racing GR Supra 0:15 - Most Winningist FD Team 0:28 - Tuned In Podcast Episode 040 0:42 - Why A B58 & Not A 2JZ 1:55 - Time Moves On! 2:14 - Cast iron Vs Alloy Block 3:14 - Aftermarket Piston Design 4:52 - B58 Cylinder Head 6:06 - Valve Springs 6:30 - Valvetronic Locked 6:42 - 8,900rpm limit 6:56 - Bearings a Weakness 7:12 - Rebuilding & Maintenance 7:50 - Oil Pump Setup 8:44 - Lubrication System 9:55 - Why Not Dry Sump Off The Bat? 10:50 - 2 Turbo Options 11:28 - Boost Control 12:17 - 4 Port Solenoid Explanation 13:38 - Turbo and Engine Packages 14:50 - More Power, More 'Better'? 16:09 - Throttle Modulation & Throttle Bodies 16:57 - Boost Pressure 17:27 - Cooling Package 19:00 - Thanks Bro! 19:14 - Free Knowledge. Grab it!
Take $50 USD off ANY HP Academy course (even the 1000hp 2jz engine building course example!) with this coupon: TH-cam50 Enroll now: hpcdmy.co/50offytc - Taz
I saw one roll racing (supra) at Tailem Bend near Adelaide, on the weekend. There was even a Z4, seemingly stock. This thing ran and beat a lot of big HP cars, it had been tuned for sure, but its traction obviously being a big thing, getting it down better.
After listening to this. Is the 2jz dead..No. is the B58 as good.. hell YES. Saying stock block but with stock displacement JE pistons isnt a stock block. Thats a built block even if its just drop in piston n rods. Drop in pisnton/rod combo in a 2j can do the same number. Happy the b58 is a true success. Better tech with earlier boost response.
@@Deep42Thought it's been decades since i first heard of bearing erosion. I haven't heard anybody talk about it or contribute a failure to it yet. I started to think it was an old tale...
@@PANTYEATR1 it's racing engine so changing oil and other wearable parts is worth the effort and easier on the budget. Same goes with dry sump. It's causing due to excessive vacuum. Also Merican drift is for kids with only 3 turns... for real one or two transitions and 3 turns? such a shame
Excellent information for a BMW newbie’s like me and relative information for previous engineering like the RB and 2jz . Great questions and responses to let us little guys learn about the details. Papa your knowledge is valuable to our community. Thanks again.
I just love it when H.P Academy ask questions because my man with his knowledge gets the Top Successful Racers/ Engineer's in the industry to reveal all The Secret Sauce!!!! Pay attention Boy's and Girl's. Bravo 👏 bravo 👏🏁🏁🏁🏁🏁😎👍💯💯💯💯
Sounds like 2jz lives on but there are some options outside of that now. All my stuff is 2jz but I will give the b58 credit for the street it makes a broader power band making it better off the line. All that valve and fuel system tech.
bmw m50/52/54, mercedes m103/104 i think those are also quite good choices. that b58 has so long stroke that its hard for bottom end + it has small bore = smaller valves i would say example 2jz still wins if you want the maxium horsepower and max rpm.
It's almost as if... almost... that inline 6 engines can almost universally make a lot of power. From jaguar xk, rb series, jz, barra, and so many more
2jz will always live on, the B58 had all the new tech, which is awesome, better and smoother graph and it does seem to be reliable, just not sure for how long 🤪 All the power still comes down to the cylinder head and turbo. Great info here, thanks for the explanations of the BMW engines
Not only is the B58 phenomenal, but now with the release of the S58, capable of 750wheel just on stock turbos, with the block's limit being higher than that too, Toyota's own 2JZ is pretty much only still better for a full blown 1800hp+ drag car application, and even there the A90 is catching up quick. Otherwise BMW has it beat.
Everything you've mentioned are all bolt-ons in regards to S58, which isn't a surprise. Give a stock 2JZGTE a single turbo and the ECU will adapt up to 500whp since 1993, or 550whp since 1997 on pump 91. Your S58 highlights are just later tech. But as for "stock block" the 2JZ still holds a higher factory longblock record. 'Factory longblock' means the block and everything in it from Toyota. Over 90% of papadakis's engine is aftermarket. If we were to build a 2JZ as much as papadakis has built this B58, we wouldn't just have 1200whp.
@@allboost70 Bro, you're talking out of your ass im sorry. Pure clownshoes. JZ heads does not flow well. They never have. "If we were to build a 2JZ as much as papadakis has built this B58B30, we wouldn't just have 1200whp" No, it wouldn't have 1200hp, it would have less than that. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. If you had a 2JZ and a B58 side by side, with the exact same setup, the same compression, same fuel system, same turbo setup, same boost etc the B58 would make more power everywhere in the rev range because it's a modern platform and the head flows far better. Heck even the naturally aspirated BMW inline 6's from the 1990's outflow the JZ heads. You're free to go look up the cfm numbers on the heads. That's not to say the 2JZ isn't a kickass engine, but you're just talking straight nonsense.
@@anthonywilsongolf because engine is bmw drivetrain is bmw gearbox is bmw and multimedia is bmw basically 70% is bmw in the supra. W Toyota for choosing to work with BMW
I saw the 4 episode of papadakis racing building and dynoing the engine, 3 years after we get this AMAZING car with and insane engine, compared to what people Thought/said about the B58
Just reminding you all. In 2015 John Mihovetz prepped 4.6 4V with oe cast block, oe cast GT heads and factory Kellogg crank ran 5.88 at 256mph making 3,000 hp @ 10,000 rpm. FoMoCo > any import
I could listen to him talk engine tech all day. As time passes, I find myself becoming more interested in the tech in the race cars than the event itself 🤓
I think the title is a little mis-leading. B58 is a great engine but the 2JZ has been known to run in excess of 800hp with stock INTERNALS, not just stock block and bores. I think the record is 1000hp stock botton end on a 2j. Also the comment on people hating the B58 was smoke and mirrors, the real issue people had was with Toyota's direction, they based the deisgn from a Z4 rather than doing a ground up build. So it was riddled with BMW, there were stickers and stamped all over its parts. It was a purity thing. Im sure if Toyota did a build ground up and still used the refined B58 engine people wouldn't arc up as much as they did. In regards to the Vr38 engine, As a GTR owner I don't think people were that annoyed at the rb era "ending". I actually never heard anyone complain about the VR38.. The engine sounds like crap compared to any Inline-6, but i dont think people were unhappy with the platform??
The fact ppl still try and shit on b58 when It’s THE BEST modern i6.. guys rather dump 30k into a 20 year old engine just for it to be half as efficient
This reminds me, seems like most people completely forget that in this case BMW went the other way round. What you get is the M4 GT3 racecar engine, designed to withstand at least 170 bar of cylinder pressure for a minimum of 30 hours* of racing. The engine comes from the assembly line and only a handfull of components on the ouside are changed before it goes into the race car. Everything on the inside is the exact same as in the roadcar. *30hours is like a standard for cars that are meant to do 24h races. during a normal season most GT3 engines are replaced every 40-50 hours.
Id say the rb isn’t dead though, the fastest awd in the world is rb powered in Australia 🇦🇺 despite Saudi Arabia funded r35’s with 4x the budget Really cool documentary though definitely shed a new light on the b58 I’ve only heard of around 1000 sbe on them before this also just how many things you can have stock, bmw always made a strong family of i6’s
really impressed with the back and forth in this interview. I was fully expecting the usual line of questioning but this is some fantastic in depth talk on a really interesting build.
Step always said that they build not just fast car, but also made Unique car and still competitve.Like Corolla that converted to RWD and use 4 Cyl instead 6 Cyl or V8. Good Content :D
This have been so informative amazing. Would love to have Papadakis’ take to do up a video/kit for a 700range hp Supra that will run also reliably for a daily.
I can't imagine what they were thinking with the internal exhaust to 2-port arrangement. It was as if they were intentionally trying to curtail or nerf the aftermarket.
I'd say it was a way to get the car on the market without issues trying to find a solution to get it into the other market's with the 6 port(which is partially why the mk5 still remains as a 2 port still in evert market other than the US Mk5s which are all 6 ports since the 21 models)
Its honestly a great idea. Faster heating of the motor (as the exhaust ports are cooled). Quicker turbo spool and better response (shorter valve to turbine path) Perfectly sufficent for stock and up to stage 2. The aftermarket isn't something any company actually cares about, it usually only results in extra costs.
This is one of the guys you SHOULD listen too!
Especially his high rev sounds rrraaahh like a tractor pull setup
@@redjhon2053 😂😂 Clearly you haven't watched the video
Agree 😂
@@redjhon2053 His comment was a reference to Papadakis "high rev tractor pulling sound" in the video. You still clearly haven't watched it, schizo.. 😂😂 I'll help you out 9:21
@@redjhon2053 🤡
The "earlier" B58 they discuss is actually the later second gen B58.
The B58TU is the engine they speak about. The two port exhaust is what BMW calls the "Medium output version" found in most later non-M Performance 40i cars. e.g. X5 xDrive40i, and apparently the supra. They use this in packages where space, cost, and efficiency are most important.
Higher output second gen B58tu models, "High output version" , have 6 exhaust ports. E.g. G2X M340i, M440i, etc.. This second gen B58 also received various technology updates over the first gen, mostly to improve efficiency and emission control.
All early first gen non-tu B58s had normal cylinder heads with individual exhaust ports. e.g. F2X M140i/M240i, F3X 340i, 440i, early G30 540i, early G12 740i, Early G01/G02 X3/X4 M40i models. This is the OG B58.
Fantastic engine if you are considering buying one. Great to tune. Even better If left stock, the engine will likely outlive the BMW body it's inside of.
Probably outlive everything it’s in
until the timing chain snaps. I'm not sure about the B58 specifically, but I've had it happen to me on my past BMW's and the chain on the B58 looks the same, a tiny little bicycle chain, and its on the back on the B58. I own my cars and drive a lot, so decided to stay away from the B58 when I saw that if anything they made their timing chain issue worse, I got an IS500 instead.
@@85CEKR the aftermarket support for B58 is rising, so it’s slowly climbing to the popularity of the 2JZ as a tuning platform with an extra time
@@85CEKR Craig, with all due respect that's a concern relevant to any engine with a timing belt or chain, which is essentially every passenger vehicle on earth, save for rotaries and heavy duty gear driven engines. Not to mention, Toyota chose this BMW B58 engine as one for their own production long before the Is500 was even announced. If it's good enough for Toyota, it's good.
There is nothing particularly noteworthy about the timing chain or guides in the B58, aside from it's simplicity, being an Inline-6 configuration. The chain is made by IWIS, which makes chains for just about every brand and industry on the planet. BMW doesn't produce chains. In-fact, your IS500 has an IWIS made timing chain that is twice as complicated as this B58 at minimum, being that it has two cylinder heads and two more camshafts.
Being that your anecdotal prior experience with a BMW timing chain was negative, I'm glad you found a car you like! Albeit, such a compromise as an IS500 which is essentially a knock-off version of it's german counterparts.
Cheers
@@XcoolcoolbeansbeansX it's really not nearly as much an issue with other brands, BMW is the only brand that has multiple class action lawsuits against them because of the issue, I'm part of 2 for 2 separate vehicles. And I'm not sure about the chain brand but I looked into this and the chains on all lexus/toyotas are massive compared to bmw's. The chain from our x3 was literally smaller than the one on my kids bicycle. When my x3 was at the dealer I managed to talk to a mechanic on break he said mine was one of 7 BMW's in there that day with a broken timing chain. If you want to dump alot of money into the B58 to bullet proof it and make a ton of power it's a great engine, if your a normal person I'm pretty skeptical. I've been a BMW fan boy for years and following them really close, everytime a new engine comes out it wins all these reliability awards and everyone praises them, then 6 or 7 years down the road reality sets in and people start to realize the truth, I suspect the B58 will be the same.
Mr. Papadakis was very generous with his time and knowledge. Great interview, Andre! ✌😎
Fantastic interview loaded with a goldmine of info. Thank you so much for making these. You’re videos and podcasts are nothing short of exceptional. Thank you guys.
Cheers for the support dude!
@@hpa101You look like a badass, genius, Gearhead Will Ferrell, bro. I appreciate your technical knowledge, I'm only 2 videos in, but you are now my new favorite channel because you're just casually chucking out extremely important that I need.
These videos are great for me, a beginner car guy, to understand the different ways people build for different motor sports. I've been binge watching for a few hours now and I can't get enough
The video series Stephan did where he took apart these engines for the first time and figured things out is pretty amazing. Recommended watch for sure.
Heck yeah! More Stephen Papadakis racing not just from his channel! :D
@@redjhon2053 English?
I just picked up a blown B58, for $150 bucks, I just bought it to take it apart and see how it's built, lucky for me the head is still good, crank is done, block is done, but 5 rods and pistons survived, what I thought was weird is that it's not a 2 piece girdle blocks like the N54's.
That's actually interesting because I believe many aluminum engines have a girdle to overcome the weakness of the aluminum.
That’s the idea ig with a modular design family of engines.
@GabeIsHere Yeah I thought so too, the main caps are beefy af tho, still only 2 main bolt caps.
@@SavageBunny1 the nice thing about the b58 is the thick windage tray... or more like a girdle that they use to help stiffen and tie the caps to the block, we find the caps start to walk around the 1000hp mark, the liners are good safely for 700whp, at 800 we find they start to speckle and flake.
I remember waaaay back seeing El’Papi in the back of JG building motors while we were randomly picking up 301/303 house cams for our LS motors back then lol. He was a bit chunky… now he looks so healthy :)
Stephan was always so very nice and rather quiet back in those days. He’s come so far and that is awesome! He made some of the most iconic Honda builds back then and now he’s a giant in the industry. Good dood for sure!
Papadakis makes some of the neatest and most well organized videos out there. They seem to run their team in the same fashion as well. Wish they uploaded more frequently
The orange IROX rod bearings are of the first direct admissions by BMW that start-stop systems kills rod bearings. They realized this with the N series engines that had start-stop retrofitted later in production life. These engines were never designed for Start-stop. They are the reason why rod-bearing failures have been few and far between on BMW B series modular engines, N63TU2 and above V8 engines, N74TU and above V12 engines.
This orange coating is a polymer that essentially allows the bearings to run with little or no oil pressure for a longer period over a traditional bearing, without significant damage.
The side effects of these bearings are a fantastic and welcomed addition to all STOCK modern BMW engines (maybe not so much a 1200 HP race engine constantly running 90 PSI oil pres.). These are an added buffer against the ridiculously tight bearing clearances BMW chose to keep to this day. They make the bearings that much less sensitive to occasional oil starvation, which is inevitable in every engine's life (Cold starts, air gap after oil services, high G forces, steep hills, etc..)
If I could, I would have IROX coated bearings in every engine I'd every have. This trend will hopefully catch on before the combustion engine is dead.
Do you know if anyone has had an opportunity to check their bearings on a high mileage engine under normal conditions to see if the coating wears out?
Me personally, I'd use cryo and wpc on mine. At least that way I'm not relying on a coating to give me the results I want.
@@grein545 I'm sure it's sacrificial to some degree, eventually revealing what is a traditional rod bearing, which is still fine technically. In our experience, we have yet to see a rod-bearing fail under normal use on any of the newer engines with the IROX bearings.
@@MrDAllen1124 Based on what? Forum posts? That opinion is a dime a dozen. Every old-head says the same thing. Those technologies have been around for decades, and while good, it's not for the same purpose. We've been through all that shit on the S54s, S65/85s, N54/55s, etc. for years.
No matter what bearing you are running, you will be "relying on a coating to give you the result you want". Whether it's peened metal, or polymer, that's all a bearing is. In absence of oil film, the polymer coated bearings survive longer. In an ideal world, there would never be an absence of oil film. If that were the case, you could run the most basic single metal bearings on earth, forever, with no wear.
Hope polymer coated bearings hit the main stream aftermarket someday.
Perfectly described!
I recognize lots of info from my S55 experience, i ended up controlling the oil pump at low load only and letting it go to its "emergency mode" at mid-high load.
And fun fact, if i dont remember incorrectly, the plasma spray in the cylinders are almost double the thickness in the S55 compared to the B58 :)
youre spont on s55 does have a thicker plasma spray almost double,s55 is superiour in many ways,b58 has seen pre mature plasma wear on liner,some had to replace blocks at 40k miles.
@@durin23 Yeah they probably played it safe with the S55 since it was the beginning for the plasma coating for BMW :)
@@durin23 That sounds like the usual teething troubles for a new bore treatment. The nikasil and alusil were the same in their first runs, settled down after a few years as the process matured.
I'm not sure if the B58 uses the same method, but the plasma spray was an invention from Ford.
@@gbales84 i think gtr vr38 engine also has the same plasma spray around .05 thickness as s55 and those blocks hold 2000hp without sleeves
Metallurgist here. @4:12 The "steel plasma sprayed lining" is probably not steel but nickel-based. Some nickel-aluminium plasma sprayed powder mix that forms a base of metallic nickel with NiAl intermetallic hard wearing particles embedded in it. Since nickel is also ferromagnetic, you'd get the same reacton to a magnet as if it were iron. (Similar to a Nickasil coating, but deposited by a different method.)
Whata awesome way to geek out listening to these two dudes. So the B58 is actually a sensational engine. SP did all the hardwork so we only need to build the unit
Captivating conversation. Papadakis is one of the goats. I could listen to him talk about engines and racing all day - fantastic interview!
the level of papadakis racing dedication is unbelievable. i think this kind of dedication is below one percent
Andre is down right the best interviewer out there.
so respectful and always complimenting and adding to the conversation.
it was a delight watching this interview....
Agree
I love the way Andre irrespective of who he's talking to, breaks down what they've said so us laymen can understand.
Give him a pat on the back from me Taz
His the best 100%
Love how he breaks things down
High f*cking quality video. I love that when Stephan mentions something you insert clips of what it is he's talking about (if applicable)
Pap is one of the coolest, down to earth dudes I've ever met at a motorsports event! Full of both knowledge and patience. I know both HPA and Pap are both on tight schedules, but I would LOVE to see more of both of you together 😁😁
He's a real one to the industry for sure and we love talking to him. We have an older interview with him but if you haven't heard it already his podcast episode might scratch your itch nicely for now: th-cam.com/video/lrYpgQIXSSM/w-d-xo.html
It is on Spotify, Apple Music etc too, just search for the title of 'Tuned In' - Taz.
@@hpa101 Great suggestion! I'm halfway through now 😊 Keep up the amazing work
Insane amount of information in this one.
B58 had loads of aftermarket support. Been in the BMW’s for time now and everyone knows how much crazy potential they have
Almost unbelievable. The B58 is clearly a great engine.
@@redjhon2053 fanboy mad
@@X3R0D3D 2jz fan boy?
Every 3 liter engine has the same capabilities. Just depends whether you build it and have enough boost.
I always knew it was going to prove capable because of how the N54 can go make 1000hp and 45psi on a _bone stock longblock and stock plastic intake_ lol. Not to mention, that car was stock DME, stock trans, and lasted for years and years of abuse 💀
Papadakis an OG in the Import game. True legend and pioneer!
It was fascinating listening to these two! Both were so knowledgeable about the subject, it was amazing. Pleasure to listen to!
The best A90 Supra channel I followed is Jackie Ding. He just boosted his car to 760 or 790whp on stock block. It's crazy. My next car will be a 2020-2021 M240i x-Drive. I am saving up.
They should really interview Jackie next.
@@redjhon2053 Haha very funny. 🙄
But no, not Jackie Chan. Jackie Ding.
@@redjhon2053 I'm gonna have to look him up. Jackie Ding and maybe Dewey Dewitt are the only ones I follow in the grassroots racing scene.
man those M2s are just so good. i will need to find one eventually.
This dude made best part of marketing for bmw gear heads around b58 ... I'm not saying that his shilling or was prepaid, but the tear down and full inspection of the engine convinced a lot of people to b58, especially tuning potential.
He did mention being involved with Toyota. But to date the B58 falls very short from being a successor, regardless of manufacturer.
@@allboost70 not sure if it falls “very” short of 2jz, but my point was that it’s far better to tune stock than it’s bmw predecessors and he removed a lot of guess work for people trying “break the ground”. For example: not needing to dry sump it is a major good news, stock sleeves taking 1000hp, the list goes on.
Best youtube channel for engine builders hands down. Another great interview Andre!
🙋♂ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the VIP package with every current and FUTURE course included: hpcdmy.co/vipy10
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Papadakis Racing GR Supra
0:15 - Most Winningist FD Team
0:28 - Tuned In Podcast Episode 040
0:42 - Why A B58 & Not A 2JZ
1:55 - Time Moves On!
2:14 - Cast iron Vs Alloy Block
3:14 - Aftermarket Piston Design
4:52 - B58 Cylinder Head
6:06 - Valve Springs
6:30 - Valvetronic Locked
6:42 - 8,900rpm limit
6:56 - Bearings a Weakness
7:12 - Rebuilding & Maintenance
7:50 - Oil Pump Setup
8:44 - Lubrication System
9:55 - Why Not Dry Sump Off The Bat?
10:50 - 2 Turbo Options
11:28 - Boost Control
12:17 - 4 Port Solenoid Explanation
13:38 - Turbo and Engine Packages
14:50 - More Power, More 'Better'?
16:09 - Throttle Modulation & Throttle Bodies
16:57 - Boost Pressure
17:27 - Cooling Package
19:00 - Thanks Bro!
19:14 - Free Knowledge. Grab it!
Take $50 USD off ANY HP Academy course (even the 1000hp 2jz engine building course example!) with this coupon: TH-cam50
Enroll now: hpcdmy.co/50offytc - Taz
This material is absolutely fantastic ❤
I saw one roll racing (supra) at Tailem Bend near Adelaide, on the weekend. There was even a Z4, seemingly stock. This thing ran and beat a lot of big HP cars, it had been tuned for sure, but its traction obviously being a big thing, getting it down better.
@@redjhon2053 fanboy mad
After listening to this. Is the 2jz dead..No. is the B58 as good.. hell YES. Saying stock block but with stock displacement JE pistons isnt a stock block. Thats a built block even if its just drop in piston n rods. Drop in pisnton/rod combo in a 2j can do the same number. Happy the b58 is a true success. Better tech with earlier boost response.
Man, 90 psi oil pressure all the time? I wonder if bearing erosion is an issue? Papadak is a legend. Thanks Andre and HPA Team💪
they probably change main bearings before erosion starts show up... it's cheaper and easier to change them than rebuild whole engine
@@Deep42Thought it's been decades since i first heard of bearing erosion. I haven't heard anybody talk about it or contribute a failure to it yet. I started to think it was an old tale...
@@PANTYEATR1 it's racing engine so changing oil and other wearable parts is worth the effort and easier on the budget. Same goes with dry sump. It's causing due to excessive vacuum. Also Merican drift is for kids with only 3 turns... for real one or two transitions and 3 turns? such a shame
N54’s run quite high oil pressure too. I think BMW is overcompensating with all their previous rod bearing issues. 😂
Saw the Supra in NC a couple months ago. Nice.
Two smart dudes in this video!
papa is the real deal
This was top notch insight of a interesting new Technology ! Thank you Guys ❤
Making me feel good about the B58TU in my 2022 M240ix, had no idea how robust it is.
Papadakis is the OG for the b58 builds. Loved his tear down video when it came out and his progress on building the car
Excellent information for a BMW newbie’s like me and relative information for previous engineering like the RB and 2jz . Great questions and responses to let us little guys learn about the details. Papa your knowledge is valuable to our community. Thanks again.
I was watching his original videos in his "quest for a 1000hp"
Kinda lost track after that
Nice to see the finished product now
Fascinating stuff!!! 19 minutes just flew by ❤
I just love it when H.P Academy ask questions because my man with his knowledge gets the Top Successful Racers/ Engineer's in the industry to reveal all The Secret Sauce!!!! Pay attention Boy's and Girl's. Bravo 👏 bravo 👏🏁🏁🏁🏁🏁😎👍💯💯💯💯
German engineering is just on another level...
You have to keep in mind that we're not talking about the full grown S58 M-engine which the M3/M4 has.
Had a few wins!!! Yeah they do. Great team at Papadakis Racing. Go 411 Tuerck!!!
So many people simp for the 2JZ and old JDM's no one can afford them anymore, we should be embracing what we have.
Papadakis is an exceptional human So generous with his knowledge and so articulate..
I've been saying this for years , since the release of the b58, totally slept on engine
Slept on at release for the Supra but the B58 was out before the Supra's release lol
When papadakis is involved, I listen.
The interviewer is great!
Another great one Andre! Always love an interview with Stephan
Brilliant video. The man is a wizard with an engine
Sounds like 2jz lives on but there are some options outside of that now. All my stuff is 2jz but I will give the b58 credit for the street it makes a broader power band making it better off the line. All that valve and fuel system tech.
bmw m50/52/54, mercedes m103/104 i think those are also quite good choices. that b58 has so long stroke that its hard for bottom end + it has small bore = smaller valves i would say example 2jz still wins if you want the maxium horsepower and max rpm.
@@visa5175I noticed that last year. I forget but bore was like 82MM and a 92mm stroke.
What an awesome interview!
I knew this would be an excellent interview when it happened. Another great job.
Hard not to have a great one with a guest of this calibre. Thanks for the support - Taz.
it comes with a plasma spray we have not been able to duplicate ....so we use a new block every time...3:03......
Plasma plated sleeve well I just learnt something new 📝 ✍️
That was a great interview, just like two industry guys chatting down the pub👍
If Stephen says come work for me, I will drop anything I have in my hand and go, best in the business
Good work fellas. Top notch on every level.
It's almost as if... almost... that inline 6 engines can almost universally make a lot of power. From jaguar xk, rb series, jz, barra, and so many more
Great interview, as always. Thanks Taz 👍🏾
Another absolute masterpiece,
Thank you Mr. Papadakis and HPA!
Two tuning heroes in one video?! ❤️
Really enjoyed that interview and information presented. Great questions - both leading and trailing. Thanks
2jz will always live on, the B58 had all the new tech, which is awesome, better and smoother graph and it does seem to be reliable, just not sure for how long 🤪
All the power still comes down to the cylinder head and turbo.
Great info here, thanks for the explanations of the BMW engines
equally reliable. there is always already past 100k miles and only failure has been the turbo( same as 2j ct turbos) besides that its the same story.
2jz 86mm bore b58 82mm bore, wich one can fit bigger valves? 😅
@@visa5175 ROFL..
Good interview!
Not only is the B58 phenomenal, but now with the release of the S58, capable of 750wheel just on stock turbos, with the block's limit being higher than that too, Toyota's own 2JZ is pretty much only still better for a full blown 1800hp+ drag car application, and even there the A90 is catching up quick. Otherwise BMW has it beat.
Everything you've mentioned are all bolt-ons in regards to S58, which isn't a surprise. Give a stock 2JZGTE a single turbo and the ECU will adapt up to 500whp since 1993, or 550whp since 1997 on pump 91. Your S58 highlights are just later tech.
But as for "stock block" the 2JZ still holds a higher factory longblock record. 'Factory longblock' means the block and everything in it from Toyota. Over 90% of papadakis's engine is aftermarket.
If we were to build a 2JZ as much as papadakis has built this B58, we wouldn't just have 1200whp.
@@allboost70 saying "stock block" is kind of misleading. As long as the factory block is being used you can say its a "stock block".
@@allboost70 Bro, you're talking out of your ass im sorry. Pure clownshoes. JZ heads does not flow well. They never have. "If we were to build a 2JZ as much as papadakis has built this B58B30, we wouldn't just have 1200whp" No, it wouldn't have 1200hp, it would have less than that. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. If you had a 2JZ and a B58 side by side, with the exact same setup, the same compression, same fuel system, same turbo setup, same boost etc the B58 would make more power everywhere in the rev range because it's a modern platform and the head flows far better. Heck even the naturally aspirated BMW inline 6's from the 1990's outflow the JZ heads. You're free to go look up the cfm numbers on the heads. That's not to say the 2JZ isn't a kickass engine, but you're just talking straight nonsense.
Great questions. subbed
He is an actual King
Very well done interview, props to you for asking some very good questions
Glad you enjoyed it and cheers for watching 😎
All the hate for the new Supra still bugs me, but it just makes it more similar to the Mk4. People won't realize how good it was until its gone.
People get crazy about the weirdest stuff. At least they make themselves stand out so they are easier to avoid in life 😅 - Taz.
People wanted a Toyota and got a BMW. How is it hard to understand why Toyota enthusiasts were upset?
@@jacobmyers3868 how is it a bmw?
@@anthonywilsongolf because engine is bmw drivetrain is bmw gearbox is bmw and multimedia is bmw basically 70% is bmw in the supra. W Toyota for choosing to work with BMW
@@BABYSHASIEL doesn't make it a BMW. It's a Toyota with a BMW engine and drivetrain
I saw the 4 episode of papadakis racing building and dynoing the engine, 3 years after we get this AMAZING car with and insane engine, compared to what people Thought/said about the B58
What a beast lol.. the motor and Stephan, perfect combo
Papadakis love you man👍 I have been following you since your drag’s years. Lot’s of respect 🙏
Amazing to listen too 👍
Stephen is the man!
Great interview once again ;)
Very entertaining section, thank you
Steph is god! Always pleasure to tune in
I loved that video i learned a ton i knew i was right make best use of stock bmw b58 is tough will be my next car
Fantastic mate.
Just reminding you all. In 2015 John Mihovetz prepped 4.6 4V with oe cast block, oe cast GT heads and factory Kellogg crank ran 5.88 at 256mph making 3,000 hp @ 10,000 rpm.
FoMoCo > any import
Interesting and informative 🇯🇲 💯
I could listen to him talk engine tech all day. As time passes, I find myself becoming more interested in the tech in the race cars than the event itself 🤓
Dual 3-ports! Andre, please do a deep dive into this!
Excellent interview 🫡
2 jz never dies.
I love these videos !!!
The 2JZ is a 30 year old engine and it's still good. It is still the king.
I can listen to papadakis cars for hours
love the z4 drift build
I think the title is a little mis-leading. B58 is a great engine but the 2JZ has been known to run in excess of 800hp with stock INTERNALS, not just stock block and bores. I think the record is 1000hp stock botton end on a 2j. Also the comment on people hating the B58 was smoke and mirrors, the real issue people had was with Toyota's direction, they based the deisgn from a Z4 rather than doing a ground up build. So it was riddled with BMW, there were stickers and stamped all over its parts. It was a purity thing. Im sure if Toyota did a build ground up and still used the refined B58 engine people wouldn't arc up as much as they did.
In regards to the Vr38 engine, As a GTR owner I don't think people were that annoyed at the rb era "ending". I actually never heard anyone complain about the VR38.. The engine sounds like crap compared to any Inline-6, but i dont think people were unhappy with the platform??
The fact ppl still try and shit on b58 when It’s THE BEST modern i6.. guys rather dump 30k into a 20 year old engine just for it to be half as efficient
This reminds me, seems like most people completely forget that in this case BMW went the other way round.
What you get is the M4 GT3 racecar engine, designed to withstand at least 170 bar of cylinder pressure for a minimum of 30 hours* of racing.
The engine comes from the assembly line and only a handfull of components on the ouside are changed before it goes into the race car. Everything on the inside is the exact same as in the roadcar.
*30hours is like a standard for cars that are meant to do 24h races. during a normal season most GT3 engines are replaced every 40-50 hours.
Id say the rb isn’t dead though, the fastest awd in the world is rb powered in Australia 🇦🇺 despite Saudi Arabia funded r35’s with 4x the budget
Really cool documentary though definitely shed a new light on the b58 I’ve only heard of around 1000 sbe on them before this also just how many things you can have stock, bmw always made a strong family of i6’s
Not sure on the budget differences there man that Sydney lebbo cocaine budget is pretty healthy 😉
What a great interview
really impressed with the back and forth in this interview. I was fully expecting the usual line of questioning but this is some fantastic in depth talk on a really interesting build.
Glad you enjoyed it 😎
Step always said that they build not just fast car, but also made Unique car and still competitve.Like Corolla that converted to RWD and use 4 Cyl instead 6 Cyl or V8. Good Content :D
This have been so informative amazing. Would love to have Papadakis’ take to do up a video/kit for a 700range hp Supra that will run also reliably for a daily.
I can't imagine what they were thinking with the internal exhaust to 2-port arrangement. It was as if they were intentionally trying to curtail or nerf the aftermarket.
I'd say it was a way to get the car on the market without issues trying to find a solution to get it into the other market's with the 6 port(which is partially why the mk5 still remains as a 2 port still in evert market other than the US Mk5s which are all 6 ports since the 21 models)
Its honestly a great idea.
Faster heating of the motor (as the exhaust ports are cooled).
Quicker turbo spool and better response (shorter valve to turbine path)
Perfectly sufficent for stock and up to stage 2.
The aftermarket isn't something any company actually cares about, it usually only results in extra costs.