The Great Worlds Western Tragedy; EDG Favorites? - Summoning Insight S4E23 (feat. Peter Dun)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- Summoning Insight is the premier League of Legends esports talk show and podcast.
Join MonteCristo and Thorin with guest Peter Dun, head coach of Evil Geniuses, as they discuss the halfway point 2021 Worlds Group Stage, the Worlds meta, underperformances by Western teams, EDG and DAMWON as the current tournament favorites, and more.
Summoning Insight will be increasing the frequency of shows during the 2021 League of Legends World Championship, so be sure to catch the show live on the Insight on Esports Twitch channel.
This episode was filmed on October 14th, 2021.
Come join the Insight on Esports Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
0:00:00 - Fnatic roster drama
0:13:59 - Peter Dun intro + MAD Lions
0:25:25 - Worlds scheduling
0:33:16 - FPX + proview discussion
0:43:39 - RNG
0:49:26 - Gen.G
0:53:08 - Rogue + Cloud9
1:05:32 - Side-laning in the current meta
1:14:44 - HLE
1:27:55 - EDG + T1
1:37:30 - Peter's player tier list
1:51:50 - DFM
1:56:06 - NA teams' chances and futures
2:18:52 - PSG Talon
2:23:48 - Final thoughts and predictions
2:31:25 - Outrageous gamertags
2:35:35 - Worst plays at international LoL matches
2:37:25 - Ideal apocalypse guide
2:39:12 - Consulting for esports orgs
2:40:31 - Pre-game rituals
2:44:16 - Who would you talk to for 10 minutes?
2:47:26 - Would better formats boost LoL esports?
2:50:28 - Parasocial relationships with fans
2:57:53 - Best feeling of schadenfreude in esports
3:04:45 - Best use of innuendo in a gamertag
3:05:27 - Funny anecdotes about pro players
3:07:21 - Cultural and gameplay differences between China and Korea
3:10:32 - What formats incentivize "perfect runs?"
3:11:41 - Worst rebrand of an esports org
3:14:36 - Would Fortnite 1v1 be a viable esport?
3:15:40 - Fake crowd noises at events
3:18:23 - Potential Grogcoin rewards
#LoLWorlds
#LoLEsports
#LoLPodcast - เกม
I do believe Nemesis is actually one of those players that said they knew that they were out of the team before Worlds even started. Said it in a podcast I believe.
yup
Even if he did know before it's inappropriate to say its a lie. Imagine if upsets mum is in hospital and someone is saying it's not true so he has to go and address it due to thousands of people messaging him, making reddit threads etc which aren't true. Imagine the amount of grief.
That's the problem with Nemesis. He completely lacks empathy.
LMAO.
THIS WAS ONE DAY PREMATURE. ROGUE AND C9 BEAT FPX. FPX finished last in group A...
I just finished the past one and got rewarded with this :D
👊👊 yeah bro, didn’t expect this one. Let’s go!
NOT A WESTERN TRAGEDY FOR C9! LET'S GO BOYS
Too sooooooooon
THIS WHOLE VIDEO WAS ONE DAY PREMATURE. ROGUE AND C9 BEAT FPX. FPX finished last in group A... NA 3rd and EU 3rd seed beating LPL 2nd seed!!!
Perkz is like a lion on the Savannah slowly stalking its prey with those insane chunks of odoammne and Hans sama.... I now see why the RISE video has Perkz in the cover of grass like a Lion, eyeing his foe as Yasuo. th-cam.com/video/fB8TyLTD7EE/w-d-xo.html He saving his Yasuo for SHOWMAKER!!!! : )
WEST FIGHTING!!! MAD, TL, 100T!!! (FNC sorry it looks rough)
PROVE YOURSELF AND... RISE... RISE!!!
The LS guys and friends joke, holy shit. Laughed out loud.
What can I say, I just really enjoy this show. It's a good balance between serious analysis and humor. Makes doing chores feel effortless while listening.
Didnt want to sleep anyways perfect timing
Nice, thanks for the show and the quick upload, couldnt watch it live yesterday
Thorins reaction to the airplane story made it even funnier :D
When Peter is describing Abbedagge's strange movements and clicking, it sounds like he's hesitating and thinking too much rather than relying on instinct and training. Similar to a basketball shooter suddenly thinking about their shooting form and constantly adjusting it rather than relying on muscle memory.
Good catch, I’ve Definitely felt that before
Thank you for the promptness of the upload!!
Am I allowed to imagine Maple joining SwordArt? o-o;; then Bjergsen goes autofill and we go from there? o-o;;
Wait, the 2 mid laners combo o-o 6 man team? o-o;;
Also, the first blood on Oner with the last aa on the ward... that timing was so well played by EDG >__< I think game would have been diff by one click ;(
Riiiight?! It's been an exciting year ^__^
Spacibaaaaa!!!
my favorite part is 3:00 when monte is an ogre with pink lipstick
it was funny cuz i thought it was maybe an intentional clown makeup filter as a joke
This aged well.
They just believed in Doinb interview: "Scrim results shows a 70% win rate no matter whether we are facing a strong or a weak team. Starting from tomorrow, I believe we won’t loose one single game."
Not their fault that the translator was dyslexic between win and loose.
Though I don't blame them. Both Rogue and C9 looked lost 48 hours ago AND you've got 1rst Korean seed and 2nd Chinese seed in the group.
Nice same day upload love it
Dade award for Doinb after tonight and this whole over hype.
The entire team gets it
THIS WHOLE VIDEO WAS ONE DAY PREMATURE. ROGUE AND C9 BEAT FPX. FPX finished last in group A... NA 3rd and EU 3rd seed beating LPL 2nd seed!!!
I’m upset though, rogue choked vs DWG and C9 whilst being the better team, don’t @ me, your school system is trash either way so no brain
I mean it wasn't even DoinB did you watch the games? Tian was running it, but I get it because DoinB is a bigger name you'd pick him without context.
@@dhirajthapa5797 He was not the worst that is obvious man, the thing is that community has very high expectations to this squad and main hype was around him so this trophy must be for him.
This aged like milk
Never forget thorin the moron said Faker getting to worlds was not an accomplishment because of how bad LCK is that Faker got a free ticket (T1 arguably being the 2nd best LCK team). Now LCK is dominating worlds. This content got so trash it's kind of sad.
Awesome episode! The fan questions were pretty interesting about player rituals, habits, and crazy fans. Take care!
Fatal1ty is the GOAT of e-sports, super credit to Thorin mentioning him. And his interview with Fatal1ty is terrific stuff, as most of his interviews.
The one with Rapha just blew me away - I was hardcore Q3 fan, but never even imagined how much though the guy puts into it
Monte 3:05 "We live in a society".
No one brought up a certain world champion ADC teleport flanking on Kog’maw and instantly getting deleted? AHEM. I’ll never forget that shit…
My favorite pro name is still crystalmeth who had to be censored down to crystalm for worlds. Just so outlandish.
what region/years did he play?
my favourite pro name is actually in that same vein and it's the OCE player turned caster EGym earlier in pre-LAN known as ErectGymnast, shits outrageous LMAO
@@pace1190 he played a decently long career but the only event I actually saw him was 2014 worlds he was the jungler for the Turkish wild card team Dark Passage. Apparently he eventually changed his name to Crystal.
1:19:25 this made my day. haven't heard that in a decade lolz. I still use it to this day,best music player :D
Winamp gang rise up
Sick burns in the intro, Thorin
That movie is incredible
C9 made it out of groups 🙌 we going to sizzler boys
"This is Not Europe" within the context of parallel team staff to Peter on promoting Danny meanwhile they're dressing up in their best boots, cast iron shovel in hand ready to dig Deftly back up out of the grave EG paid to be dug for Season 12
Bruh this wording... I struggled...
What a great guest
I hate the lack of crowd noise for live events so tbh the TI fake crowd noise worked well for me.
Guess that $11 million paid off for C9.
Surprised DL dashing into Viktor wasn't mentioned as one of the worst plays at worlds :D
Also Dignitas switching from their alien thing to what I think was some kind of bird was weird
after hearing about drx in scrims last year i think its a tragedy of the format they got DWG in quarters
at what point in the group stage does this take place. Is this after Day 4?
I can't remember what game it was but when Carzy's face cam was on it was bouncing up and down at high speed, indicating his leg bouncing under the table, a massive sign of adrenaline surge /anxiety.
Or the urge to pee really really badly : (
I bounce with my leg while being relaxed aswell this doesnt have to mean shit tbh
Let me introduce you to 3 time world champion Shaker vs g2 in 2019 worlds semi's. Dude its normal
@@janisarbidans8931 hahaha
@@HappyroosterYT ah fair enough. I think it just stood out to me as it wasn't happening with the other players on MAD.
37:17 that is wild - did not know this wtf xD
Random question as an infra engineer, any NA org tried to loan a dedicated link (you don't even need that much throughput, but you probably don't want to sub loan just to avoid noisy neighbours) from LA to Seoul or LA to London and use split VPN setup so that only the league client/game goes through this? I would assume you can get ~120 ms latency with like 1ms of jitter on such a link (and minimal packer loss). Add in like 5-10 ms to get to the actual servers and you've got a
>100ms is unplayable, and I believe there is some legal quirk to the ISP situation in LA (think you have zero choice in some areas), idk how feasible that is in the end.
"Khan is exceeding expectations... so far" AGED LIKE A FINE WINE
2:43:28 only one I'd make an argument for is Ogre2, that guy dominated Halo for so long and so hard
My only counter would be that Brood War seems like a more mechanically intense game than Halo. Or any other for that matter, I think Brood War is peak esports for how demanding the game itself is. But it's also apples and oranges so who knows.
@@Ravengagepvl You can definitely make little arguments here and there for sure. Ogre2 placing top 2 38 events in a row (winning 30 of those) and a national championship in I think 4 different Halo games (5 national championships total) may outweigh that for some tho. Just depends on what people weight for best player ever I guess.
At least in my opinion, there are champions that Always seem to see play, especially at Worlds, no matter what the meta is or if they have been nerfed
Jax, Jayce, Ezreal, Irelia, Renekton, Yuumi, Lucian, Ryze, TF, Shen, Gangplank, Tristana, Lee Sin, Thresh, Orianna, Syndra, Le Blanc, Leona, Alistar, Trundle.
I think if anyone is not predicting those champions (and probably some I forgot) to see play and be top tier picks then you are just trolling. They are pretty much always good.
What has PETER DUN to deserve Monty and Thorin?
I see what you did there 👍
Yuumi showing up at worlds is now law, just like how Kennen will always find a way. I find it funny that Riot pre-nerfed him because teams always save Kennen for worlds. Nami usually suddenly appears too
Kennen was largely untouched until they buffed his q several patches ago
nami? that champ hasnt been viable since s6
I hope now yuumi is popular that she gets hard nerfed because that champ pisses me off
Dlift vs crown might be up there
Djwheat, incontrol, (i miss him so much) and idra talking about sc2 and league was just pure content. I dont watch streams these days and have just really understood the copium thing; that was literally the biggest copium ever
I do enjoy Peter on these shows. Always fun and interesting.
Personally the tournaments being flooded with korean players was one of the reasons why I stopped watching SC2 and moved over to LoL
What's wrong with the best players happening to be from the same country?
@@brandonwalker5011 was just not interesting to watch if you want to support/cheer for a "local/regional" hero when you only have the choice between people who are bad in their own region so they come over to dominate yours or people who don't even bother with that and only come for the tournaments. Especially because the regional tournaments were meant to be for the region to qualify for the worlds tournament.
I dont care where you come from i cheer for you if like how you play i think any esport is more enjoyable that way. At least its my opinion. And that Peter guy. Seems hella bias perhaps he doesnt watch eastern region carefully but i couldnt disagree more with his takes on especially LCK
@@laurentmikasso7452 its fine to have different ways of cheering and following esport. I come from a traditional sports background and I like to have a team that I'm following. And if my team for example doesn't participate in an international tournament then I'm cheering for my region OR an international team I like for a reason. But that then usually depends on a certain player or a nice story around the team or something. I'm not saying everyone needs to be like that. I am just saying thats what I need to be engaged. If it is just 2 random LCK (never really liked LCK) teams fighting each other from semis onwards then chances are high that I'm not watching it. I mean if I would like to see that I would just watch LCK (or LPL if the same thing would happen with LPL teams)
2:43:23 PEAK quality comedy by thorin, I can’t lie I laughed my ass off there 🤣🤣
Quality
This title aged well
hey, EU IS part of the west and it's been tragic for them.
@@Lizard1582 Its only officially been tragic for Rogue and likely Fnatic so far, Mad Lions still have a chance. You can't label it as tragic yet just because one NA group got out of a group with an EU team so far. Plus it has been better than expected for the west in the group of death.
I think Carzzy has been the least consistent member of MAD the whole year, the random flashes-in (or Tristana jumps), missed Rs and missteps are not super uncommon for him - many times they went unpunished though. And all that is not unexpected from the guy who is branding himself as really laid-back.
I hate the way riot patches the game, like freeze the patch with play-offs.... why is it so hard not to patch........
1:51:15 holy fuck that was too close to hitting his eye
THIS WHOLE VIDEO WAS ONE DAY PREMATURE. ROGUE AND C9 BEAT FPX. FPX finished last in group A... NA 3rd and EU 3rd seed beating LPL 2nd seed!!!
Perkz is like a lion on the Savannah slowly stalking its prey with those insane chunks of odoammne and Hans sama.... I now see why the RISE video has Perkz in the cover of grass like a Lion, eyeing his foe as Yasuo. th-cam.com/video/fB8TyLTD7EE/w-d-xo.html He saving his Yasuo for SHOWMAKER!!!! : )
WEST FIGHTING!!!
PROVE YOURSELF AND... RISE... RISE!!!
My dream scenario is rogue getting out of groups to play gen.g in quarters for the ultimate Bo5 choker Showdown. And do you know what’s best about this? We‘d even see another Bo5 of one of these teams
"best"... This would be the best way to ruin the tournament lol.
But it would be great
Bcs the team that won that first bo5 might lose that chokestyle
2:35:40 doublelift lucian
do i have to say more?
LETS GO C99!!!!!!!
C9 too good
As for esports GOAT, I'd argue Daigo Umehara
Absolutely cracked.
WESTERN TRAGEDY???? C9 made it out of groups!!!! What do u have to say now???? Haha
3:14 why is my boy a clown?
this is how i found out kix died. RIP
The take about canna being mediocre hasn't aged well. Burdol might just prove his worth tomorrow too
thorin looks like he is allways in 1,25x
Too soon boys GG C9
i wonder what G2 has been missing all year? certainly not the most clutch mid laner ever... C9 Perkz, we're not worthy! *bows*
Worst play at worlds is doublelift dying to Viktor laser.
Peter Dun going full LS this episode with clicks, item builds and drafts
Imagine Splyce Evi wow
An integration into a current support item that dismounts yummy and stuns upon landing out of mount is the easiest fix maybe unmountable 5seconds after activation. Yummy can also build the item when she gets dismounted she can re mount in half the time after activating it. So you’ll have this dismount remount battle mechanic expressing skills among support vs support. CDs should be longer for remounting on the item.
Saudi Arabia are a great ally of the west and need our support.
dw peter that quarter final wont happen
3:06:00 omg
The Best Gamer Tag That I have ever seen is SexHaverIRL
Thorin dont worry imo Heat is one of the best movies except the end. alittle bit too cliche.
1:26:10 HAHAHAHAHHA
13:36 LMAO
Ahahahahahaha the Tactical dig.
inspired been playing like expired internationally
Doinb was never worse then Lwx.
Adderral is broken in solo queue trash in competitive
The fnatic situation just makes me really depressed. I feel so bad for Upset
What if the NA player association actually did something for these presumed academy-stuck and overlooked players?I'm sure if someone with a lot of tenure in NA gives an academy player an official pass of sorts of being good enough to play in lcs, owners might actually give a shit/ be incentivised to hire new talent. Still ass-backwards but better than nothing, perhaps
Caster in football stand in a cage, but esport casters nah man they don’t get a cage.
Pick TANKS WITH HARD CC AND DRAFT FOR THE TEAM FIGHT WOMBO COMBO AND LAYERING YOUR CC SO THE MID AND ADC CAN HAVE A FRONT TO BACK TEAM FIGHT. ALSO... CARE ABOUT THE FUCKING DRAKES. So sick the west playing so lazy.
That whole NA segment is a massive oof.
Calling Burdle shit in like his 1st world's game. When he got counter picked and hard camped. He didn't even play a quater of the split
2:13:40
Strong disagree with this point. at least clutch took TL to 5 games in the 2019 semifinal. This year has by far the biggest quality gap between LCS seeds, in the past the 3 teams were usually pretty close in level.
perkz and fudge couldn't even generate meaningful 1v1 leads vs wildcards, can you even think of nice mechanical plays they pulled off? the idea that they have superior hands and their only problem is teamwork has 0 basis. I dare even say C9 won't win a single game without having a massive draft advantage.
Lol
This did not age well
Lmaaaaaooooo
And just as i said in an earlier video about the mindset of a team.
If you do not go to worlds end to be the very best u can be, u will not stand a chance against the players and teams that do.
The Korean and Chinese culture foster excellence and perfection at the cost of health, while the west foster comfort and equality in benefit to health.
The western approach will never be able to Win at the very top with that mindset, NEVER.
We can come up with all sorts of excuses but history doesn't lie, western teams have never won the Worlds Tournament in League of Legends since season 3 when the Asian regions were allowed to compete.
Then we have the fact that on average an asian high school student are about 12 - 15 points of IQ smarter than a western kid of the same age.
Peters takes arent aging very well despite being the correct takes and i think that just further supports how bad the format is. Im saying this after group a finished so itll be interesting to see how much more nonsense is to come.
PSA: humanoid, carzzy, Kaiser and Mad Lions are now 0-3 (or 0-2 forget how many times last play ins)all time vs Jensen, tactical, Corejj but TL is definitively worse than mad and TL has no shot.
Hot take EU is worse than they were last year NA is better than they were last year and mad would lose a Bo5 to 100t
fuck lmfao
Am i the only one struggling to keep up with Thorin when hes talking? Not saying i don't like the guy.
Try listening at .75x, it helps me
Monte clown filter? 3:10
Playing or working during tragedy doesn't give one extra points. Might as well give people extra points if they do well when coming back from tragedy. And to make it fair for those without tragedy give everyone extra points.
Hmm.... guess we are right back to being equitable on how we give points: we can make excuses.
Second.
as someone who has been saying that EDG will worlds since like spring split, im happy to see them do well
not done the entire vid yet but after the first section im hshaking my head. How did the people that others bitch about become the bitches? do the fucking job we all like you for and start wondering whats going on. Its actually insanely mindblowing that ur treating the whole fnatic situation like so. FNC pay u guys this epi?? Upset ur stepson thorin?? quit ur crying about something u guys are literally famous for... starting drama. I wouldnt doubt upset said fk worlds if they said they dont want him after it
NA OUT LULW
Wait is Peter Dun for real at 57:00 "there has never been a european top side that could contest carry picks internationally"? He lists sOAZ and Odo, Bwipo and even possibly Alphari... and forgets about Wunder???, Caps and Jankos? What the actual? And Monte and Thorin don't even intervene lmao
I'm sure they had all just a brainlag but holy **** that can't be real
Also Darien is high up there. One way or another.
How convenient that the reason western team are doing bad it that some players are "underperforming". Is it that hard to admit asian teams are just better and literally every western analyst has been overrating western team ?
you do know that both statements can be true? they are not diametrical to one another.
Ofc asian teams are better and to state otherwise would be dumb as fk, but to say that western teams arent underperforming is equally dumb as fk.
@@je371 As someone that jumped off regular LoL viewing after around S6 Worlds, it is funny to be able to view this episode on a whim, look at the current group stage standings, and feel like I haven't missed a beat re: Regional Trends.
Maybe it's just the same end result playing out in new and exciting ways, but from a macro perspective NA seems to be failing business as usual, if not failing by an even wider margin than before.
@@gilolaes4725 yeah in regards to regional trends i agree, but not competitively, which I think is in large part tanks to regional Leagues.
Yea i think NA teams need to face EU more often because they are so out of touch with metas over there, I actually think the raw mechanical talent is somewhat there even tho there is a descrepancy for sure, but that talent only gets you so far, then theres the issue with pampering.
Fnatic lost a member, rogue + NA not good enough, MAD underperfoming. Is it really unlikely that one team is underperforming?
@@ElByFar better than fpx tho
Perkz has been so fucking bad
It’s kinda hard to play mid when your jungler ints every game vs. actual teams
@@jazeroliversy673 So it's blaber's fault for winning early game in their game vs fpx and then in the mid game perkz ints in the side lane for the loss
Idk man, not saying perkz has been doing good but- he’s crabber for a reason
@@jazeroliversy673I would say the only player I'm not disappointed in is fudge
@@feature8 fudge has been doing good. I like the dude, he’s grown a lot.
If this year doesn't prove that worlds shouldn't have regional quotas nothing will. A proper worlds should probably be 12-14 China/Korea teams, 1-2 EU and maybe the occasional wildcard. Imagine how sick that would be.
I mean the format of worlds makes it clear that they don't care about finding the best team(s) in the world. So for riot it doesn't matter which teams only come to participate in play ins and groups since the top seeds from KR/CN will probably win (the final) even then
i wouldnt trust the 6th placed team in korea to be any better than a wildcard team, little too early to pass judgement before grps are even finished dont you think?
Terrible idea, what’s the point of having championships in minor regions then? IMO play-ins should include more major regions teams, maybe then we would have a better quality group stage
@@je371 well the 4th from Korea and China just coasted through the playins. I think teams like TES, SUN, JDG could at least make it interesting against some of these wildcard teams.
@@Cafetero_ Yeah for sure but pretty much every analyst agrees they had the easy group in regards to opposition so i wouldnt take too much from play-ins just as c9 making it out really didnt mean shit to me from an analytical viewpoint.
Definetly, i'd say at least TES would probably have a good time.
But i was talking about Korea and they do not have that depth of field so having 6 seeds from Korea would just lower the quality in the same way it is lowered now i suppose, China does have the depth i think but even there you can see a descrepancy from 3rd/4th and down.
Edit: sure koreas 5th/6th could go through play-ins but i think they would be knocked out pretty consistently.
Oof delete this too
delete what
Gotta love the favoritism the Asian regions are getting by having 4 teams each and every Group has an LCK and LPL team. Way to go Riot.
We are seeing just how bad Riots Worlds system has gotten this year.
Nice bait
Bruh wdym favoritism ? Europe had 4 spots for worlds last year too , you said that like LCK and LPL didn't have to earn their fourth spot by winning worlds and msi
this so much, its so unfair!!
these regions could have 4 teams getting out of groups while NA gets 0 every year.
srsly, wtf riot?
@@HermesTrismegistuslmao it’s a meritocracy
NA can have 4 teams too after they win worlds this year, easy solution