The Bigtreetech Smart Filament Sensor - An In Depth Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.พ. 2021
- The BigTreeTech SFS Smart Filament Sensor is an abomination of product design, but how well does it work? I mean it has got fantastic reviews. Surely the internet doesn't lie. This thing is a total bargain, a winner, and everyone who ever purchases it is happy they did... Right?
Watch the next video where I talk about the electronics and address the RTFM criticism: • BTT Smart Filament Sen...
Watch the video after that where I talk about Chinese Brand names: • Video - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Watch the next video where I talk about the electronics and address the RTFM criticism: th-cam.com/video/7xVRTtWErvo/w-d-xo.html
Watch the video after that where I talk about Chinese Brand names: th-cam.com/video/WzTffmCI374/w-d-xo.html
I did an in-depth breakdown of this on my channel, but you really need to understand how it works within Marlin. By default, BTT sets the runout distance in Marlin to 7mm. What this states is that the lack of a state change on the input pin (aka high to low, or low to high) would indicate a runout immediately with the value set to 0mm. Marlin is coded to keep running until 7mm of "movement" has occurred. After the 7mm (roughly 651 stepper pulses for the average extruder assembly), if the state of the input pin is the same as before, it triggers M600.
If you are using it for jam detection (which is the primary benefit of this sensor over other products), then it has to be downstream of the extruder. This is the primary purpose of the system, with runout as a secondary feature. The actual process of calibrating this involves starting at 7mm, and increasing if you're getting false positive runout signals. I'd need to tear another one down to actually measure the rotary wheel hole diameters to get a more accurate distance-between-state-change, but it is fairly minimal.
Yes, it will continue to print for a few moments while it waits for the RUNOUT_MM value to be reached (think of it like an on-delay counter). However, the only way you're going to get around that limitation is by having a switch on the inside wired up as a separate runout detection (Marlin is currently only programmed to handle either pulsing sensors or a standard switch, not both at the same time).
If you're interested on more visuals, and a breakdown of the wires (notably what each wire connection on the sensor side is, in case the wire labelling standards have changed across batches), have a look at my video: th-cam.com/video/KQmTH9ljWqI/w-d-xo.html. Full disclosure, I bought them myself and I'm currently using them on 2 different machines (CR-10s and Ender 3 Pro in a direct drive config).
But the design is wrong for jam detection. Because it uses only one light sensor, filament bounce back on a jam can simulate movement pulses and the printer will continue to push. It needs to be a quadrature setup to do the job properly all of the time, not just a design the works 'most' of the time.
If they exposed the encoder wheel directly to the filament it would be eaten within a few rolls of abrasive filament. Their design is correct. Having such a strong opinion without considering all of the facts doesn't do any good to your rep. Regarding the reverse polarity, the components on the PCB need the full 3v3 to operate. There is no headroom for diode loss. The online documentation has clear instructions on how to wire it.
It doesn't rub or push on the filament, so how will it be eaten? The more abrasive, the better it will grip and move.
@@saddle1940 Your wheels roll over the tarmac so they should never need to be replaced right? Even the rear ones which don't need to handle turning friction. Unfortunately that is not the case. The very friction which produces the grip (rolling and static) is the same friction which would gradually eat away at the encoder.
There are ways to protect against reversed polarity that don't have that problem.
7:17 they used 3 wheels so the encoder wheel doesn't get worn when a user repetedly inserts filament into the sensor. If you didn't realize this then im scared for the company that hired you to be their industrial designer.
BigTreeTech is Also Biqu, the company you said makes the best hotend/extruder, so highs and lows.
Good luck with your channel. I will go elsewhere for product reviews.
I wish you would stop explaining how much better you are than others. Almost every video you make other TH-cam's or manufacturers down ☹️ your channel would be so much better without those remarks. Just saying...
You interpreted my words as arrogance. If I simply launched into my criticism about design without providing context and credentials, someone else would have left the comment "You think you are so good at designing. Why don't you try to do some industrial design and see how hard it is." I do not feel like your assessment of my words/character is accurate.
It's his style, and I understand him, he's alone in most of his videos, but his interactions with others put that seeming arrogance in a whole new context, like rough constructive criticism
@@DesignPrototypeTest your credentials would hold more weight if you actually plugged it in correct and knew how it worked with marling (ie the software it was designed for) and the proper way to use form over function .. you shouldn't NEED to cram your credentials down peoples throat if you know what you're talking about.. saying i got paid well for it is completely irrelevant to the convo and is arrogant .. not to mention you talk smack about industrial designers saying they can be just sketch artists buuuut then don't go into any detail of what part of the process you actually did.. so you didn't give context or credentials.. you SAID you've done work in the sector you realize anyone can say that. you talked down on others and then made a mistake lol
How can you write an entire company off just because of one product?
and it was his fault for incorrect wiring...
Although I agree the design could be better, the filament would eventually (sooner than later, I guess) tear the rubber wheel if they were in direct contact. That’s why the extruder uses metal gears to push filament (same principle, just more tension from the spring).
About the design (and the material), I would imagine they were using off the shelf components. The casing is injection molded, so they ordered an ugly box from a catalog and the factory retooled the interior, so BTT just threw everything inside it. R&D is expensive. So’s injection molds and machinery.
Maybe it was cheaper to leave the boxes made with a better material than change components/procedures for cheaper plastics, maybe the flex of a cheaper plastic would interfere in the precision of the readings from the sensor...
What I mean is, there are lots of “maybes” involved, not just bad design. Form and function must meet costs (in fact cost dictates form and function in most cases, specially in cheap items from China), and, not maybe, I’m sure after all things considered it’s made in the cheapest possible way.
Edit: now that I’ve seen the entire video, wrong wiring... twice!!!! You know, I prefer online manuals, they tend to be the latest and revised version. If there wasn’t a manual inside the box, one more reason to carefully read it online. I think a manual inside the box wouldn’t make much difference anyway. It all came down to cost again. Cheaper to replace a few burnt boards than include polarity protection in ALL boards.
Three wheels: because an abrasive filament will wear out the wheel.
You realize that "form follows function" is literally saying that the form should primarily relate to its function. It is the opposite of what you're implying it means.
he is hilarious
this drove me nuts that he kept saying this and tried to act like he knows what he was talking about lol
I think there’s some stuff missing here. I have a duet Magnetic sensor and it’s impossible to work at all. After hours of frustration I gave up. I finally saw Teaching techs video on this filament sensor. I bought one... after reading all I could on it, I realized that yes if you just plug the SKR sensor into a Duet it will smoke it. This is true of all Marlin boards. Duet uses a different wiring schematic. The power is on the outside versus a SKR, or any Chinese Marlin board where the power is on the center pin.
So on the sensor I bought I had to switch the wiring pins to the correct pins to work with the duet.
Once I had that done I could tell the status of the sensor by sending a gcode (per Duets guide)... then I calibrated it. I ran several tests and once I had the final settings I plugged it in and it worked flawlessly.
I have mine before the extruder on my Railcore. In fact I have it at the beginning of the reverse Bowden tube. So when there a runout it stops the printer immediately, parks the head and backs out the filament.
It also does detect filament jams.
In my experience this on a duet is much better than the Duet filament sensors.
I do agree that form of this sensor is goofy, overly heavy and bad design. The Duet magnetic sensor is the size of a half dollar. Lol. But I couldn’t get it to work.
I am running a btt skr mini e3 2.0 on my ender3 for half a year and it is still running fine.
Appreciate the review. I almost bought one.
Just FYI, if you're using a BMG extruder, you can easily install it on top of the extruder so that it is able to tell the firmware the filament is broken/runout before it gets to the extruder.
With runout yes, with a filament jam, no. Runout is much easier to detect with just a switch pressed against the filament which will directly trigger. The jam detection is where these sensors should shine
@@rosserobertolli I had a jam today where my nozzle was way closer to my bed than it should have been, touching it so much that my extruder couldn't push any filament. The sensor detected that nothing was coming out when it should have been and printer initiated a filament change.
@@light-master That sounds like it did its job better than I expected! I still agree on a lot of his other remarks though. I would wish there was something like this one build smaller and better (the electronics, not the housing). This one is a bit of an eyesore. But maybe I'll get one to test and copy, but better!
Jesus that sensor is sucky af.
But man you shouldn't dismiss the skr boards! You really liked the h2 extruder, which is a big tree tech sub brand. And personally I've been using an SKR 1.4 turbo for a year with no issues whatsoever, the only bad thing I can see about it is its lack of eeprom, which can lower the lifespan of the internal memory
Way too much positivity recently. I am here for the destruction. JK, great video
Edit: Having watched the Video entirely I take that comment back XD
If you look at the BTT SFS manual on github, you can see that the case in that one is 3D printed instead of fiberglass reinforced nylon, I suspect they used the same model as the 3D print, and did not optimize it for mass manufacturing
Having tested it myself, it works fine for the application, though I do print with a .8 nozzle, rather than a .4 (increasing it's sensitivity). Another issue is getting the tuning just right, as it can go out-of-sync with the filament due to the filament gears slipping, causing false errors.
I would definitely place it before the extruder, rather than behind it by the way, found that to be easier to mount due to it's weight
I have one of these and agree about the design, way over the top. Finding a decent place to mount it is my biggest annoyance. As for the functionality, it worked first shot out of the box for me. Everyone has their own experience, you remind me of the local Shock Jocky but for the 3D world.
Out of interest does it allow you restart a print if it detects a jam? Or is it mostly just to let you know there's an issue with the filament and stops the printer just waving around in mid air?
more rant than review i'd say, especially since you never got it working the way it was meant to. i appreciate your insight as an industrial designer but this sensor was designed to be 3d printed which is why the form is so clunky. i have an early version and both the body and internal component is 3d printed. regarding function, it works ok except it adds a lot of friction and should allow tension adjustments. i modified mine with a screw adjustment for the spring. the pinout matches their skr boards and their LCD controllers. i upgraded an Ender 3 with an SKR 1.3 board and TFT35 touch screen controller and it works perfectly for me. regarding the detection distance due to sensor resolution, this isn't an issue if the sensor is mounted before the extruder.
You should look into a SKR board with Klipper. It blows Duet out the water. Klipper has the ability to run multiple boards too (something Duet doesn't do well).
Hmm... I have to disagree with you on this one... First of chinese manufacturers tend to try to make the cheapest products.. so it's suspicious that they would spend so much on trying to make the product the way it is. But here are a couple of guesses, One the reason why it's a metal on metal contact is to avoid any of the rubber from the rubber wheel to have a direct contact with a filament as it can provide contamination or rub off eventually since it's plastic to rubber contact. Second because they had to add a second wheel that is metal, then they have to find an adequate way to push pressure onto the metal wheels in order to to get enough pressure for any skipping of the filament to not give a false positive on the jamming. Thus with the amount of pressure needed to push the metal idler wheel it is required to have a fiber infused plastic for the strength. What is sort of a downfall though is the lack of proper wiring pinouts since it looks like you connected it the wrong way or something was connected and properly
The overengineered casing is more amusing when version 1 if this was FFF printed. It's excusable being overly chunky in that case.
I have mine working on marlin, and it's two lines of config.
But seriously how much jingoism? I'm sure you own plenty of Chinese made electronics, it's impossible to live without it.
Thanks for the review mate
Could be funny to redesign the body using the pcb and encoder to show how it could have been!
I just thought exactly the Same😂
exactly
Video starts @ 8:25. Some pretty hot takes in the first half of the video hahah
OK, that review hooked me, Subscribed.
The Wire with the long white drawing is normally - (0V) in electronics.
Thanks for walking through the design. 👍😃
Thanks for the review.. I was thinking of buying that thing. I'll be going with the Duet sensor.
I agree with you about that sensor not being worth. However your assumption that the skr boards therefore must be bad too in my opinion isnt quite right. No doubt are the duet boards the superior product if you whant the best board you can get, but for many people, like me as a student for example, thats not what they're looking for, they are trying to get something that works but is still budget friendly. Thats where for example the skr mini for around 35 bucks has a valid place. I installed one in my ender 3 running klipper and I my experience was flawless.
,,Never touching a bigtreetech product again", isn`t the h2 extruder by bigtreetech?(you actually liked the h2)
to be fair, he did say he won't touch their electronics again
@@GRuizMedia Dont give him an out. I want him to change his mind and give it a shot. I have a feeling he'd like it more than he cares to admit.
@@BeefIngot Thats what I thought too
I still don't know why he liked the H2. He started off saying it's basically the best an extruder can be, then goes on to have to manually shave down gears, clean and re-lube everything, and end up having to use another whole unit. Then it did not even extrude filament very quickly. I always thought the main reason to have a small light extruder is so you can move it quickly without artifacts, but if it can't extrude filament quickly then why does it have to be compact and light? And he's still planning to use it in the "best printer" he has.
@@CodeMonkeX i didn't see him actually try it before taking it apart and the other one was perfect out the gate.. that to me sounds like something got botched by him.. he's real good at not doing "proper" scientific testing .. ie one with a control and goes whole hog on disassembly before verifying function..
and he ended off by saying it still will allow you to print WAY faster then most other hot ends so it is still a benefit.. could it be better .. sure but they had to make some concessions and realistically the ones they didn't wont be noticed by most consumer
Thanks for the info
I can understand you’d be reluctant to buy a 3rd but if you’re going to call this a review you probably ought to hook one up correctly and comment on the function.
Dude... that's just standard flat cable marking, as to distinguish the individual conductor from end to end . Though it may look like its labeled from the factory for polarity, it is in fact labeled by the wiring manufacturer who has no idea how you will orient it. The issue is that BTT sourced flat cable with JST 4 connecter that looked to be marked, while in reality you have to read the manual to ensure polarity.
So uh, you smoked the board (twice) and called the PCB crap? It's designed to be plugged into a BTT board, would have thought you'd check the pins at either end to make sure you didn't blow it up (twice) if you weren't plugging it into a board its designed for.
So you thought you'd just have a dig at the design as you couldn't get it to work, which for once is built to be tough, sensor wheel doesn't directly contact the filament, casing wont crack or fatigue under the pressure of the spring if it ends up in a heated chamber, but that's now a waste of time and money and you'd rather it be flimsy? You sure you know much about designing stuff?
Whole video just feels like you're really out of touch with what's happening with 3D printing, the Duet's stuff is nice, but writing off all BTT's products because you mis-wired their filament sensor that you don't like the design of and destroyed it before you could actually test it seems a bit petty to me.
Hey Man, you've got some hard hitting criticisms here. I would love to respond, but I'm pretty warry of trolls/sock puppets/bots/fanboys/whatever-they-are. I see you've posted some videos about 3D printing so I'll tell you what. Show me your face and let me hear your voice in a video where we can have an ongoing conversation. Maybe even tell me your name. If you do this I'll talk about anything related to my videos that you want. I need to know that you are a real and stand-up person. Don't be shady. At the moment it just seems like you are a faceless coward taking pot shots at me from the shadows. You are trying to get me to feel bad about myself. Trying to make me and possibly others think that I'm "Out of touch with what's happening with 3D printing" and that I'm run by my "petty" emotions instead of making valid criticisms. Prove me wrong. I dare you.
@@DesignPrototypeTest You have responded, with a further 20 minute video on a product you destroyed before testing. To defend your actions of applying reverse voltage to both units. Again implying poor product design because you guessed at cable markings that aren't crystal clear.
Lets wade through your little list there, Troll, maybe, though my comments are a little more observational than straight up bashing. Sock puppet.....no idea tbh. Bot, far to well put together English to be a bot. Fanboy, not really sure on the angle here, I've not so much defended the product as I have questioned the method by which you came to the outspoken conclusion that the product, and therefore, entire company product line, is terrible.
So ruling most of that out, my name is as it appears here, at least all of me I wish the internet to see. I worked out a while ago that I didn't want to spread my image out on this platform, as is evident from my last upload, 8 years ago. We don't all require the attention you seem to seek by bashing a product, and company, and country, from which you dislike from a single, poorly conducted experience.
If you have no rebuttal that's fine, it's an open comment section, I don't believe my comments to be shady. I do however think it's pretty shady to attack big tree tech in such a public way when the problem with the product was the customer. Many of the larger printer manufacturers and communities are moving over to a BTT board running Klipper with a RPi, how you've missed that enormous wave of change is beyond me, which is why it feels like you are "out of touch".
Also, criticisms don't always have a positive outcome in mind, if someone is critical of your content, and it isn't positive, that's still a criticism, not an "attack". You're doing a fine job of making your channel undesirable to watch on your own.
If you are an emotionally balanced "real" person with no agenda and your words are how you genuinely feel about me, I need to tell you that your privacy is an illusion. Remember when it got revealed that Facebook has ghost accounts for people who have never even made a Facebook account? They know who you are. They know your IP address (even if you use a VPN they still have methods of identifying where you are coming from). They know who you talk to. They know what you buy, They know your interests. If they cared about you as an individual they could easily make a dossier on you. The only people you are hiding from are other users. Me, and others who will read your comments are the ones to whom you remain anonymous. I'm here showing my face, telling you who I am for video upon video. You use this information to personally attack my being and suggest that I am "petty" etc. Yet you aren't even honorable enough to reciprocate for few seconds of screen time. You won't put your face behind your words. You have no skin in the game. You can say whatever you want and there are no consequences to you. I'm not foolish enough to engage with a such a cheater. If you want me to actually read your comment and give 2 seconds of consideration to your words you need to prove me wrong. Show me your face and let me hear your voice in a video where we can have an ongoing conversation. The funny thing about your supposed online anonymity (if you even are a "real" person) is that it is supremely egotistical. Nobody cares about you. You are so self centered that you think the world is trying to figure out who you are, but we don't even know you exist and you make sure that we continue to be unaware of you by "protecting" your identity. Worse yet, you have weaponized your anonymity to vandalize my comment section. After this small interaction with you I don't need to see your face. I can tell what kind of person you are.
@@DesignPrototypeTest this isn’t a western and there’s no point in calling me out. You can answer the questions, or not. All you’re doing is damaging the hobby by posing as someone with knowledge on the subject and blaming a reputable manufacturer with your mistakes.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
I’ll leave it there, try not to loose too much sleep.
I would love to talk about all the issues you bring up, but I won't engage with a faceless ill behaved cheater who attacks me anonymously.
By the time a filament runout is detected, it is well past the Hobed feeder. So no Unload filament possible
For me the SKR Boards haven’t been too bad. I actually recommend it. I was looking at that sensor, but I decided I didn’t want that hunk of junk hanging off. I ended up just using an Ender 3 Z endstop for my filament sensor but I don’t really make big enough prints that a filament sensor is that worth it. I took my endstop sensor off because I thought it was too annoying to have something on my Bowden.
Finally someone put boden tube fittings on one, necessary for me. I like the dual metal wheels for my abrasive filament, but I would chuck the electronics and just put a momentary switch in it.
I have this sensor. I believe that there is more to it than just one line of code. I think over on Michaels channel, I think he goes into how to set this up at least using Martin firmware. In firmware you have to Enable the Sensor. Then tell the sensor when to trigger in mm then set up the park settings. Where to park the head when you are performing the filament change. The code in Marlin is M600. I don't know how to do this in Reprap firmware. I have only used Marlin firmware. I got mine working and tested but then my filament ran out and it did not trigger. SO, Maybe the length of PTFE tubing I have mine connected to is to short. I have settings set to 7mm. Also, I have a direct drive system. Recheck that you have the cable plugged into the correct connect on your main board. For something else I was trying to connect I plugged the cable into the wrong connector or I plugged the cable in backwards and I got smoke. So I would start there.
Also if you Main board does not have a dedicated Filament runout sensor connector/port then you will have to find another connector on your board that is not being used and configure that port in the PINS.h file so your printer knows that the pin you plug the sensor to is the one you want to use for the Runout Sensor and not something else.
I used their tmc2209 and octopus pro. It cheap and it work for me. I appreciate ur review very informative. :)
DPT you should watch the first layers video on this. He showed that sensor does create a wave form... when the wave form is slowed, or stops it causes the error to happen
My guess for the material and sturdiness of the case is that because this is designed to sit between the extruder and the hot-end, any flex will result in print artifacts. This won't be an issue for direct drive or if this is placed before the extruder. But probably still overkill.
I know nothing about filament sensors but shouldn't it be "plumbed in" between the filament roll and the extruder and not as you seem to have it between the extruder and the hotend. Don't you want to detect filament outage before it is extruded ?
My only criticism is that a lot of your criticism is conjecture. I am sure they did the 3 wheel thing for some reason. I don't know any company that would add complexity/cost for the fun of it. Did you change your pinout on the side that connects to your board. I can see btt not getting into the details of the wire and assume everyone will just plug it in without looking at the wire...With that said they should have had safety circuitry in place in the event anyone hooked it up wrong.
> am sure they did the 3 wheel thing for some reason.
You are giving them the benefit of the doubt? "Some reason" doesn't mean it's a justified reason. Could be a very stupid reason. This thing is like maybe $2 in materials. They are making like 800% profit on it. They don't have a lot of incentive to value engineer it. They went with the first version (The beta version) that worked, and charged as much as they possibly could.
I actually like Big Tree Tech products myself. At least a for the ones I tried, which are a few of their SKR boards & LCD Screens and the TMC drivers the offer. I have not had many issues with ones I tried. Their BTT GTR is a little weird though when trying to setup Marlin to use it's M5 expansion board.
BUT
There are a few of there products I just don't care for. This sensor has been one. I just didn't even want to try it because of it's design. Basically the very same reasons you mentioned in this video on it. If they would have offered the board itself I might have tried it though. I like to design my own housings for the electronics I use. I probably would have designed to to connect straight to a direct drive extruder.
I know we all have our likes and dislikes so I can't and won't knock you for that. I personally hate apple products for personal reasons and avoid them with a passion. We are all entitled to our opinions. ;)
Biqu (the H2 extruder) is also made by bigtreetech I believe. But we once tried a MKS base from them and the quality was visibly worse opposed to the 'original' by makerbase. We have been looking for a compact encoder style filament sensor though, if this worked, the electronics could easily have been transported into a smaller housing without the second wheel... Too bad
Hi, I personally use two of this sensors one on my E3Pro with SKR1.4Turbo board and one on E3v2 with stock board, I'm very satisfied with their performance I did'n have any problems with connecting them or configuring Marlin. As I think You destroyed at least one of them - do You still have case from it as I think You had moulded case and I have one moulded and one printed - I would gladly upgrade my printed to moulded one - are You interested in trade?
I have two, one I purchased and one I inherited that was 3D printed. Guess the original ones sold were printed and that one did give me an issue where it jammed up internally. But so far they have saved two prints from crappily wound spools that ended up jamming. One of which was my fault and the other was no name filament brand. If I had been using a simple switch sensor, the printer would have continued to grind away at the filament and all would have been scrapped. With the default settings in Marlin for the sensor, the printer sensed a problem quickly and paused until I fixed the issue and was able to continue with only minor flaws in the print. They adequately perform their function and that is all I could ask. While far from a perfect product I don't feel that they are worth the total disdain of the video. I felt it uncomfortable to watch and I hope that is something you don't repeat with future videos because I want to like your channel. The hobby needs good content creators.
Ignoring the design flaws and just focusing on encoder wheel design.. Do you feel a 36 hole wheel @ 1 rotation pr 35mm would be acceptable? We would be looking at 1 state change pr 0.48mm of filament.
You are on the right track. :) It's a future project I have in mind. Watch the next two videos I made on the subject of this sensor. Links in the description.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I already watched them :) I have a prototype sensor sitting on my desk I cobbled together over the last 2 days.. I just need to order some optical end stops to test it out and refine the model a bit.
This is the first product from bigtreetech I have seen that does not work out of the box, so am very surprised.
Have been using their products for a few years now without having experienced a single bug.
it was a user fault. He fried the board bc of inverting ground and voltage
True me too
Love your stuff. I have one of those sensors and as soon as the filament stops moving the printer stops. Unfortunately it’s a little too sensitive cause my printer keeps stopping even if the filament is moving
Dude, I unsubscribed after this one after giving you a chance without notifications for a while. Look into anger management classes, as your underlying hostility toward pretty much everyone including your subscribers and wounded chip-on shoulder attitude makes your channel no fun to watch. It’s a pity you can’t seem to innovate yourself a better user interface, as you have insights and knowledge. Rant, grievance and abuse channels just don’t do it for me, but to each their own. I think it’s less about your opinions, and more about the way you choose to express them. Just say your peace and move on. As for engaging in flame wars in your own comment section, it’s a losing strategy in the long run, so learn to let go.
The smart filament sensor might not be the best, but its alot better than a micro switch run out sensor. The smart sensor have saved alot of prints for me, you talking about the print goes 120mm before it knows, ye, well im using a 0.6mm nozzle but anyway, the majority of times the filament was stuck and two times I run out of it, never on the outer wall, only inner walls or infill, maby lucky but it saved my 19h prints. Is it overdesigned, sure, but it works.
A micro switch filament sensor wont feel if the filament gets stuck when unwinding from the spool, it wont detect when there is a clog in the nozzle etc. low res, sure, but until you present anything better, im using it =)
This guy is the dude who thinks he knows a lot more than the other guy because he self-taught himself "industrial design" and turned into a snob because of the path he took to become an industrial designer. Im glad we don't have these types of people in engineering.
r/iAmVerySmart
I buy skr from them for testing the printer and to my surprise it hold up so i use it for 2 years ..... Board is working great without single issue but it was the older one v1.1
It still works just fine ,few hundred hours in 1 go and nothing happend :)
For the money.....good quality but not every time
Still for me Duet is the way to go if u want professional 3d printer
What is your favored filament sensor?
DUET Magnetic Filament Monitor.
@@DesignPrototypeTest except they are nearly impossible to buy. They're always out of stock
this sensor looks really cool, but same result its out of stock atm. :(
Thanks for the video, stopped me from buying one.
I agree with Ziggy Stardog, you've got a lot going for you if you would only stop being negative. I hate to type this because I passed through a similar period and felt stupid afterwards, but it needs someone to poke you in the ribs....POKE ;) Next vids got you smiling and doing something fun and crazy out of the box useful tricks, deal? Take care
It would be better if they had a higher resolution encoder and used it to also track the filament extrusion length and correlate and correct esteps on the fly as well as jamming or broken filament
Matt, thanks for the design breakdown and critique of BTT’s filament sensor. I would love to see your design response back of your version of the filament sensor.
looking at the rant on the vid it would just be an end stop switch thats melted from being wired up wrong lol
At first, I thought that the round circle on the face of this device was an LED.
Thank you for this review! The lack of sensitivity kills it for me. I need to go on an archeological dig in the garage; I should have some old computer mice that used balls and optical wheels -- should have far better sensitivity.
Just use a middle mouse button/wheel from pretty much any mouse.
Wouldn't it be more useful to put it between your spool and the extruder, not between the extruder and hotend?
Anyhow, thanks for doing the tear-down. I hadn't realized from the amazon listing that it was using an encoder to see that filament was moving, I thought it was just a limit switch. Glad to clear that up. Thanks for the video!
Heads up he messed up the wiring, sadly BTT is very lacking of in box documentation but on their site there's instructions to swap the wires pinouts for different company boards because each one likes to have their own "secret sauce". The sensor blew because he didn't consult a guide for that board manufactures pin layout, always do deep research on a pieces of equipment, never assume plug & play with so many different company ecosystems. Been building a custom printer from parts for a year & half that lesson pops up often enough.
Why on earth no staus LED to view if the filament is feeding and detcted
I watch these videos in complete amazement! Radical thinking at such a new level of crazy! Hypocrisy is amazing! So let me get this strait, you wouldn't buy a ford car because one of their cars once built was the worst car ever made, oh opps chevy is on that list also as is all other car manufacturers so apparently you don't drive, or own a toaster or any other product!. So since they made a poor product all their product is bad? You don't typically let the smoke out of a product unless something was done wrong, it is a given the product should be protected against that but that too costs more money. I have successfully used 5 or so of these sensors. They do not solve all problems but they solve more than a simple switch! DIY printing is about balancing cost and functionality. What other sensor would you recommend and why did not not say? Is it because there is no other that will detect loss of movement for under 30 bucks? Filament breaks and out of filament is only 30% of failures therefor simple filament switch detection (you developed one) is almost useless. Never mind most of those sensors cause the jam when the kink at the end of the spool gets stuck on the input of the sensor causing the failure that is is suppose to detect. I am sure a better sensor can be designed but a 5000ppr encoder and all the components to make it work is very heavy and more importantly very expensive, who would pay $200+ for a sensor? The bottom line is bang for your buck, cheap but with functionality, inexpensive but solves the most problems (but not typically all), this is DIY 3D Printing!
I'm not sure I would attack a company for their rev 1 product having some shortcomings! We all know that in order to find the shortcomings you have to build the product and use it, I think they have a word for that, on yah Prototyping! Everything gets refined over time if it solves a problem! If your the person you project I would suggest you never buy a rev 1 product from anyone!
I like to keep things in perspective! The only reason DIY 3D printing exists is because of the Chinese! No European/North American company could produce the products for the costs affordable by the community! Not even Prusa who likely uses near 100% Chinese components to cut costs! Sure 100% of the time their could be a better product but we all know it will cost more and not likely be affordable. We could all only drive the best most reliable car but not everyone could afford a $100,000 car so its not practical! I often detect a hint of racism in your tone, may just be me. They are the hand that feeds you! You would have no channel that pays you at all if 3D printers were $20,000 like the commercial ones with the $1000 sensors.
As an example, slice Engineering has a exceptional direct drive hotend! It is $200 where others are $50 or less, function wise there is a bit of difference. Is that worth $150? That is for each person to decide. You can buy a Chinese I3 printer or a Prusa, both are really Chinese but is the $600 increased cost worth the functional difference? Again for each to decide!
As you once basically put it Prusa printers cannot detect lack of filament movement or filament jams they used similar to your sensor design!
I did try your sensor design, 7 out of 10 times it failed when the bend at the end of the filament either stuck on the spool or jammed in the input of the sensor causing the extruder to miss steps and strip the filament and not detect the loss of filament. Does that make your product bad? No it means it detects 30% of the problem and we all look for detecting 100% of the problem. Who knew that until it was designed and tested by the masses! But did you put out a new video on how (in your words) crapy your non Chinese product was because it failed to detect most problems? Did you redesign it for a rev 2 product to meet its shortcomings? Did you re-write reprap and marlin firmware to support your new excellent design?
My point is not crappy products, its about prototyping and the process it goes through to meet market needs! Few including you get it right the 1st time! That doesn't mean attack them but it does need constructive criticism and the ability to remove DOA product and yourself issues from the product for a fair review.
th-cam.com/video/WzTffmCI374/w-d-xo.html
so I must be 1 in a 1000 type guy? Thanks for the review.
You can see a "smart sensor" I made from an optical end stop sensor here. The files are in the group files section.
facebook.com/groups/164045754911513/permalink/323466955636058/
Here's the link to the files:
www.dropbox.com/sh/kybg4fil17q9gog/AADsCGJN4vx1DrFr4wHYmuJCa?dl=0
We have to join that group to see it? I don’t have Creality printers
@@thelightspeed3d712 it's ok, we deal with all kinds of printers.
Here's the link to the files
www.dropbox.com/sh/kybg4fil17q9gog/AADsCGJN4vx1DrFr4wHYmuJCa?dl=0
Shocked how wiring is often just wrong on products. Just as you noted the wiring colors and labeling seem to be randomly chosen. I had the same type of issue with the CR-Touch which works great after you decode the wiring colors. CR-Touch White is servo ground, what, BLK is Servo +5., then RED is GND for the Z-stop connection. Even worse is the BL-Touch which is almost as confusing has been around for a long time and for some reason the CR-Touch needed to have different wiring colors and that would have been fine if they made more sense. Again the CR-Touch works perfect, just the wring is awful. By the way I do have a BTT SKR v1.2 motherboard and it works perfect and was a great value. I have dealt with BTT support and they may take time but really try their best to help you out.
I do appreciate your knowledgeable honesty but seem your feedback could be a little nicer, sorry.
Another nail in the coffin for BTT. We already knew their reputation left a lot to be desired. But even so, the thing about Duet is that they are now actually inferior to Klipper. The Duets whilst still being easy to configure... are no longer technically the best performance choice when it comes to getting best print quality for printing at speed. The new thing Klipper has now is the option to attach an accelerometer module to your print head. And then run a diagnostic that compares the commands send to the steppers against the reaction of the accelerometer.
This configuration step only needs to be done once per printer. Unless you change your motion system or the weight of the print head. It is called the input shaper. And it seem is a feature not available anywhere else? Correct me if i am wrong. Aside from the input shaper Klipper also has its own version of traditional linear advance too. So the accelerometer thing costs peanuts but is completely optional. As for controller boards, you can put Klipper onto anything you like out there. But currently the Fysetc S6 is the best recommended one. There are Klipper configs already done by annex engineering. Or if you can instead wait a few more weeks, then the brand new Fysetc Spider will be launching soon. And so that is the company who is now better than BTT these days. At least for getting a board for running klipper on. Its a better quality board than what BTT is offering. And fraction of the price of a Duet.
So what do you think Duet will do now? Become a copycat of Klipper, which is an open source project... in order to keep up with the very latest developments? Or proudly stand continue as they are. And then perhaps gradually fall out of favour. As day by day more and more user keep converting over to using klipper. At an ever increasing rate. Personally I think what the Duet company should try to diversify, but in a smart way. To lower their risks in face of increasing competition. Which will only ever get stronger over time. Duet as a company still has a great set of strengths and expertise they can build upon.
A nail in the coffin for BTT because he couldn't read the manual to make sure he connected it properly? This thing works just fine, even if it is overengineered and has a bad form. I've used several filament sensors and this one is just as good as any other one. It was an interesting analysis regarding the form, with which I agree completely. But to then proceed and connect it in a wrong way without reading the manual and then shitting on the electronics... I mean.. He should have stopped there, ordered a new one, connected it properly and reviewed the functionality. Mentioning his mistake and instead criticizing the fact that the manual is not included in the box. And if this product is so shitty, design a better option and include it in the video. That would have been a 10/10.
@@erikhellman3974 Yeah I entirely overlooked that aspect. Personally I can see both sides of the argument. But overwhelmingly the truth is most ordinairy people do interact with electronics just exactly like this. They dont know enough about the circuit, and either cannot find their instructions or dont realize that the instructions matters. And quite often don't expect it to be possible or allowed to plug cables into ports in more than one possible way. So it is a good example from that perspective. About how if the manufacturer just put more effort into clear labelling and warning signs / stickers etc. Or if they put more effort into safeguarding the inputs to the PCB. To make it a more robust circuit. Either / both things go a long way to lowering the product's RMA rate. But you don't expect BTT to do any such things because of their history and track record with other products. My main point was not about this specific product made by BTT being really too bad beyond being usable. But rather they have generally completely lost their way these days. Just look at the other new products they are releasing now and compare them to Fysetc. Or even Mellow with the flyboard. And then BTT you just don't have the same level of product support. As those other 2 options which are also both coming our from china.
And the design needs two light sensors (not one) to work properly. Also, lots of complaints here are about wear of the rubber on the filament if you removed one of the wheels. The wheel freely rotates on the filament (it doesn't push or drag on it), wear should be minimal. Other DIYers have just used rubber bands successfully. If it is an issue, change the wheel with holes in it to metal. A mouse scroll wheel was probably used to lower costs to mere cents.
Luv this review :) Good to see detailed honest review
Been eyeing different filament runout sensors for a while to avoid failed prints from empty spools. Gonna skip this product. Thanks for the review lol
i think the triangle lab one is decent? but it probably doesnt detect jams i cant remmber now...
BTT SKR E3 v2 board is good. I actually got really good customer service out of them.
Yadayadayada, just skip to 2:35 right away.
I like this channel, but the way (and frequency) this guy talks other people down is not necessary imho
I've never heard someone spend 15 minutes complaining about how overbuilt a part is. It makes no sense!! You're complaining about a very high quality part that the company is taking a profit hit on to keep their buyers happy. We dream of overbuilt parts in today's world where everything is built to break in a few months
Overbuilt=overpriced. Overbuilt=/= Higher Quality. You've never seen an automobiles made out of bricks. They don't even build that many houses from bricks anymore.
This is a very good video, maybe not because of the outcome, but i almost learned more in the first 5 Minutes than i did the last months when i tried to understand some design decisions. - Thank you!
Thank you for a great review, I see i did the right call long time ago to stop using BTT hardware :)
Have had two BTT skr mini E3 and one skr turbo and the boards sucks they all went fubar after 1 year of use. CPU burned up on mini and som bad solder on the turbo. The cpu issue seems to be a known problem on mini boards.
The quality control and components on BTT hardware are bad bad bad. BUT hey i got 3 rubber ducks ;)
I tried one and it was a miserable fail. The encoder wheel isn't reliably driven by the filament wheel. It slips and doesn't turn, causing a shutdown. I'm going to assume that the encoder wheel is slightly undersize. I took it apart and discovered there is no bearing on the encoder... Just the aluminum drilled for the shaft and that's a bit too big making the encoder wheel kind of wobbly too. I'm sure both issues are the cause. LED is mounted crooked on the board too.
I had hopes for it after seeing some reviews, but after my experience, I'm going to find something else. At least it's only $15 wasted.
Shocked how wiring is often just wrong on products
Smoked my first one too! Now onto the second board and I still can't get it to work. As frustrated as you.
Third wheel for dust free optical environment? I don't know. I just ordered one.
Hey thanks for the video! I just ordered this one yesterday from some local shop :D I kinda agree on everything you've said, but what I don't understand (and this is not a queston or remark to you) is why there is only one item/product like this on the market ?! This is so obvious and must have addition to every FDM 3d printer as bed levelling sensor! Why only one this china company does that ? Is it like patented or what ? I don't understand that... And I don't want to invent this thing myself, I just want to buy that thing that works and done. But unfortunately there is no much choice out there...
DUDE! What a great point! Let's Speculate: The answer is because China. In that system over there, if you are a smaller company you don't copy the more powerful companies. You will pay the price. They don't need patents because they have a hierarchy and a good-ol-boys club called the CCP. So, why not make an innovation that is not a copy? Also, I've seen VERY little evidence or examples of innovation coming from China. The Mingda printer I just reviewed being an exception. Also, maybe there just isn't enough profit to be made from this sensor. Or at least they aren't willing to take the risk. They only make copycat products of items that are already proven to be profitable.
Looks like you likely wired it wrong if you look at the docs, its V+ SIgnal, Ground
github.com/bigtreetech/smart-filament-detection-module/blob/master/manual/smart%20filament%20sensor%20module%20manual201125.pdf.
btw, I would have expected that to be the pinout as well.. v+, gnd, sense to isolate the sense wire away from any noise on the power supply.
Art is more or less part of marketing. I agree that artists do not have the responsibility, perhaps not even the know-how, to make the product their company builds. Their sole function is to make it look good on whatever media they use to convey a message they are being paid to convey. Look how good it looks and smells, or this will make you feel like a thousand bucks. Whatever it takes! As a consumer, if I'm paying for a product, I want it to do what I bought it for at the lowest cost. I otherwise couldn't care less if it looks good if the cost is unjustifiable. If it doesn't work properly it's good for the trash, and I will feel cheated. Case in point. I ordered a portable tabletop A/C unit from a Chinese-American company for 128$ plus shipping. I didn't expect it to work like a conventional air conditioner, but I did expect it to cool the air around me better than a regular fan might. It sucked big time, so I took it apart. Imagine my surprise when I found nothing more than an ordinary computer fan and dust filter inside of it. That, for 128$! Of course, I got swindled. That much was obvious after I took it apart.
I worked for a renowned company, and I understood that there was a lot at stake if their product failed to meet their client's expectations. Their investors may have also been breathing down your necks. Who knows. I'm talking million dollar contracts. Then, I overheard my company's marketing executive lying to an important client. My status in the company did not allow me to correct him, especially not in front of a client, but I knew he was lying because I'd been working on that specific project. It's then and there that I understood what some employees are willing to do to remain employed no matter what their company status. In my opinion, a lot of what is said in marketing is complete BS. But like the artist, their responsibility is to get that product sold. A company will wine and dine a client if they feel they have to with extravagant wines and 5-star restaurants, if they can get a client to sign that contract in the end, and that's the bottom line. Anything goes to make more money. It's the Robin Hood effect of modern corporations.
If after your criticisms, comments, and all around testimony as to the poor design, function, or cost of a product doesn't bring its manufacturer to humbly accept any such defect, well. . . that's part of the corporate game. But to go from there to having people criticize you because you tell it like it is is unbelievable. It's as though they feel they have something to lose. Personally, I think someone who aspires to be a good designer should be able to openly criticize other's designs. Why not? It's par for the course. If we always agreed with someone else's designs there would never be any room for improvement. Am I right?
Btt also are triangle labs.
I would've used a circular sticker on the metal bearing wheel thing that contacts the filament and skipped the custom encoder rubber wheel altogether. And yes, the BTT stuff is rather terrible. Even their PCB layouts have things that an engineer who's worth his salt wouldn't do...
I got one of ther steper moters i t ran for 3 seconds and was done.
its possible the housing was a an off the shelf part they made for a component in a different industry
GGG lets see you know the length that it can monitor but then you installed it right at the extruder drive WRONG.
Maybe this sensor, but their board and other stuff they did are very good. I just ordered SKR PRO 1.2 + TMC2009 + WIFI + TFT70 + BTT PT100 V1.0 + OMG Dual Gear Drive, been looking for a sensor I guess ill use my existing JGAroura sensor that works perfectly fine. May be they have not given you their board for review and now you are ranting on them :D:D:D
I'm using this sensor for several months now and really like it. It helped me to detect many jams. Some youtube viedeos from BTT on using it, are not really helpful (e.g. they mount the sensor after the extruder), but if you know what you are doing, it is working like a charm. The design may be bad, but who cares, if it is working? Seems, like your analysis doesn't fit to my experience. Have you really tried to use it or did you only an analysis to make a chinese bashing video (clickbait)? SCNR
so you're telling me the ground is the black wire and not the one with the stripe?
On my unit the black wire is the voltage (3.3v) the middle long dashes wire is the signal wire and the wire with the ++++++++ signs on it is the ground. This is different from the wiring shown in the manual. I covered the wiring issue in the next video here: th-cam.com/video/7xVRTtWErvo/w-d-xo.html
Same issues you get when an artist and a programmer communicate :D
I see everything as the same line of code, where an artist perceives a world of abstract differences that make absolutely no sense!
And yea, a filament sensor can be as easy as a lever resting on the filament right before it enters the extruder and when it drops triggers a light switch :s
Making it instant.
Well this was absurd. The only actual design flaw with this sensor is the wiring. That is absolutely a problem, but it is one that won't be a problem if you read the manual.
I have two of these, been running them for a long time, never had any issues. Never had any false positives, they always trigger when they should, and I don't print into thin air when that happens because I'm not dumb enough to mount it on the wrong side of the extruder.
The only thing except for the wiring I could possibly see as unnecessary here is the somewhat beefy case, but there's really not that much extra there. I'm 100% sure that if they thought they could get away with a cheaper setup, they would, even if the customer wouldn't get a lower price.
This video is a demonstration of weird prejucides regarding the people who made this (this is designed by an industrial designer, it looks exactly like an industrial designer would make it..although it doesn't actually look like that so I'd made by an amateur...wtf?) and China in general.
I don't care if people think this sensor that absolutely works as advertised is bad because of this video, but people thinking this is an "honest review" (which I guess it is since all the bad ideas of the producer of the video is left in the video..) and them staying away from anything made in China is not a good move. Although obviously you don't really have that choice to begin with, everything is made in China, but the idea that sometime is automatically bad because it's designed there is just absurd.
>I'm not dumb enough to mount it on the wrong side of the extruder.
Long time viewer I see. Welcome back! Reading the output side of the extruder means you are more directly reading what is going into the nozzle. It gives more accurate data, because something could be happening between the nozzle and the extruder which the printer would be unaware of with the sensor mounted before the extruder. But you knew that already. The "You're not special! You don't come up with original ideas." comments are great. I know how much I've impressed you all by how much hate you direct at the idea. 99% of the time you attack my person. When you are attacking my creation instead...Anyway, thanks for reminding me about that win. I forgot I did that. The really funny thing about it is that I mounted it there because it just made sense. It seemed so obvious that I was sure it had been done before. I didn't know I'd done anything controversial or special until you all decided to make such a fuss and try to belittle me for it.
@@DesignPrototypeTest You're looking for spool issues, not nozzle issues. Mounted near the spool would give the print plenty of remaining filament to continue before registering a halt. Always double check the pin diagrams, then correct in marlin. Never assume plug n play with open source technology, it's not apple.
I have one, can't get it to work reliably at all constantly getting false alerts no matter what settings I use ; but I suspect that's just a matter of tuning and tweaking and I'm just too lazy. But I totally agree with the design it's the dumbest design for a community that is usually pretty focused on function.
Honestly, I don't know why filament sensors can't be reduced to a simple switch held open by the existence of filament. Can it be that simple?
That doesn't detect filament being stuck.
@@marcus3d Oh, that would be useful. Simple switch wouldn't work for that...
Huh. That does look like a fail. But, their TMC2209 driver is fantastic.
Too many shy away from honest appraisals of products.
If something is junk and you say so, you may take a lot of backlash for it, but that doesn’t improve the thing one iota.
Thank you for your courageous appraisals.
Huh? If it detects a runout only after 120mm just put it at least 120mm from the extruder. Just like you did.
A magnetic rotary encoder with near full rotational acuity would would offer some distinct advantages. BTW I see your Mitutoyo Calipers there, what excellent metrology instrumentation you have. A rotary encoder of the appropriate accuracy could also be coded into the firmware to extrude more precisely, by using the encoder output directly, or by calibrating your motor steps per mm.