Ditching the MKS Sbase Board and Going with a DUET Instead + Installing a Filament Run-out Sensor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2018
- The Tevo Little Monster Delta Style 3D Printer has a lot of promise, but it needs some modifications to live up to it's full potential. In the last video we added Trinamic Stepper motor Drivers. In this video we are going to add a filament run-out sensor and give the printer wireless control so that we can send prints to it over Wifi from our PC and control it with our cellphone.
How to Install a DUET board on a Delta Style 3D printer: • How to Install a DUET ...
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Great videos man, some of the most useful and informative vids on TH-cam. Looking forward to seeing more and more from you!
Wow, Thanks for taking us on to the grand tour :-)
You also have direct access to the developers of the Duet. It's a massive win. They are very enthusiastic about feature development too.
Thanks for doing these videos. They are super helpful and seems like you run into the same issues I do and it's nice to see some solutions.
I spent 100's of hours on this printer trying to get it to work as expected.
I just upgraded my flsun prusa i3 clone to a authentic duet mastero board and authentic bmg bontech extruder and the panel due and all I can say is u are exactly right on saying that these boards are way better I can't believe how silent it is it's way better than messing with marlin and audrino I had a mks gen l v1.0 on the stock flsun and I cant believe the difference now
Awesooooome vid! Keep going!
BTW I use PTFE tube to feed the filament runout. Works great.
Thanks for your informative videos, please review the LURDGE board, please.. perhaps its a good in-between
Also i had the prime issues on my cr10s before I changed my retraction from 8mm to 4mm after I put the volcano hotend on
Don't forget the Chitu board or w/e that the newer tronxy printers went to instead of the sbase. Looks alot like the Lerdge board but i haven't been able to find anyone that has tried either.
Duet has an authorized US distributor. You can get the Duet wifi from Filastruder.
True, and you save $5 in shipping doing it this way.
Nice work btw.
Awesome upgrade! Finally, someone showing just how powerful the Duet WiFi ecosystem is! Get a cheap Android tablet for connecting with the printers and you’re golden.
You’ll find that Duet support is next to none - they know their product very well, and the board is designed to be quite idiot-proof. In comparison, Smoothie (SW and HW) feels like a high school project. Their “support” is by developers with spoiled-brat attitude, and good luck with getting anything fixed.
Funny thing is that even the Duet WiFi clones work noticeably better than the Swoothieboard clones.
I'm never buying another cloned board. I wasted weeks of my life on that MKS board.
Have you looked at the Duet smart effector kit for this printer? Or the magnetic carbon rod kit?
you need stepper cooling bro. geez.
Btw, once you've done with that, the next upgrade would be to dump the flying extruder altogether in favour of an RDD (remote direct drive) extruder, of course :-).
Those drivers are know to run hot.
If your board didn't come with active cooling it must be added to run those.
Nice video were did you purchase the board from ?
The duet maestro does have Ethernet, so you can connect it to the network and get the web interface...
Ethernet it has, Wifi it does not have. If you get a Maestro, you will have to get a CAT5 cable to connect it to your modem so you can access your printer through your web browser.
Which is not an issue for me, the next switch is 2m away from the printer. Btw, thanks for your great video series on the Ender 3 with the duet board, you pushed me over the edge of buying an original maestro for it. I chose the maestro because it a) being cheaper and b) allowing to wire up the existing display while still providing enough extendability for everything. Just a shame that the duets do not have JST-connectors, otherwise the duet would be a completely effortless drop in replacement for the Ender.
It's a heating failsafe, I added direct cooling and it worked
It is a possibility, but I find it unlikely. I have sufficient cooling. The heat sinks for the TMC2208 boards sit less than 2cm from the blades of the 120mm fan which is always on. Why does only one stepper quit? If one is over heating the others should do the same, shouldn't they? Furthermore, I only observed this problem happening on rapid changes in direction. The kind of motion which would lead to missed steps in the stepper motors. Anyway, as I said in the video. It's not worth my time to debug. Even if I got it working, the DUET is more reliable, and it is better in so many other ways on top of that.
@@DesignPrototypeTest swap out that driver. sometimes they're faulty.
Usually rollers are Delrin, not nylon. Much better wear properties.
As far as a printer, the LM isn't horrible. I just finished setting up and testing the unit after it finally arrived. As far as a company, I would strongly warn anyone considering a Tevo/Homers product to stay far far away from the company. Don't waste your time or money with them. Long story short...Homers has a huge cashflow problem. That will affect manufacturing decisions, fulfillment and ultimately product support.
I had to hire an attorney in Shenzhen just to motivate the prick who owns the company to follow through and deliver this printer. I shit you not. And I only chose to go that route because he wouldn't provide a full refund...he had already spent the funds to pay old debt. According to the attorney he's about 4.5 million RMB in debt....that's about $750k USD. He was just investigated last year by Chinese authorities because his previous company (that operated under the Tevo brand) owed 7 former employees thousands in unpaid wages. There's a reason he registered a new company and a new brand (Homers) under which to do business. Tevo is basically toxic. Folks, you've been warned.
DPT, as far as adjusting those trolleys, it can be done with them on the printer. I just finished doing it. The wrench provided with the printer is useless. You can use an angle head "ignition" wrench. I prefer the type with a smaller head...mine are similar to these:
www.amazon.com/Moody-Tools-58-0151-8-Piece-Wrench/dp/B003HGHU8E
Of course, you can also use an Allen wrench for tweaking, especially on the eccentrics. If you watch the head of the screw carefully you'll see that it does indeed adjust along with the cam as you turn it.
Thanks for the mod videos. I'm browsing to see what I can do to improve the printer since I expect Homers support to be virtually non-existent.
I have a tevo little monster to add to my collection of printers do you have any stl files for this I prefer to use fusion 360
can you use a Webcam for timelapses/live streaming a print? Will the board work with the tevo nereus? it uses marlin so idk and is it possible to control a print however you want from a different wifi network? so when I am at work and I check the print on my office network I can still control it anyway I want like octoprint anywhere? please help me people I am a noob and there is not much support for modding the nereus. thanks in advance
Would you post a link to the STL for the test piece you are printing? It might be better to design an out-of-filament sensor which doesn't rely on gravity, and instead uses a microswitch (with its spring), plus it will be less expensive and simpler.
The switch you are talking about is for sale on ebay.
Using gravity plus an optical sensor is somewhat baroque. It would be simpler, more reliable, and less expensive to use a microswitch.
Fair enough. Look up "filament detection 3D printer" on banggood, aliexpress, ebay, etc. You will find exactly what you are talking about already pre-made and ready to plug into your printer.
Got it -- thank you!
I would like to point out that the Duet board has a 32-bit processor, vs. the standard mks boards which have a 8-bit processor (unless you have the mks sbase). It's not clear from the video which mks board you were running, but switching from a 8-bit to a 32-bit processor would make a huge difference with the delta kinematics computations.
The 32 bit MKS Sbase v1.3 board came on the printer. I covered this extensively in the last video.
I too bought this printer after a issue with gearbest as an option instead of the original printer I wanted. I ran into a few issues like the PS blowing up after 1 day . I replaced it with the 19.00 power supply and its been fine since. I need to do all the options you have done. I got it to pass all its self tests but I haven't gotten the Z height set correctly. To be honest it wore me out getting it up and running. I finally got it to work correctly after many days of loading software for the touchscreen. I need to get back on it as that was a year ago when I stepped aside to use my several other china printers that were less problematic. This is my only Delta so I would like to get it going and I plan on getting back on getting it printing. Thanks for putting up the videos you have done. Your my inspiration . :)
:)
I got my tevo to an almost perfekt state, maybe i can help you. Do yoh have any specific questions?
I really need to get back to it. I kind of abandoned it really and its my fault. Thank you very much for the help. I remember I was trying to get the Z height correct because wasn't right from the factory. Like everybody I was kinda worried about it slamming the printhead down and breaking the glass. I need to get back to reading the manual and forum and get it going.
There is a gcode comand in the startup-gcode provoded in the manual that lets you set the height difference between the bl touch and the nozzle. The higher this value is (i have mine at 2.4) the more compensation is done by the printer and the nozzle gets closer to the printbed.
To avoid the slamming you can use a thick piece of cardboard that you place on the printbed before probing. That makes the printer think the printbed is higher than it acctually is.
Personaly i just let it slam into the glas. The stepper arent that strong and it doesnt really hurt anything, as long as you quickly shut the printer of.
That is it ! That is where I am at and I just need to establish a height and start working my way down. Thanks Nikolai Schauer
I was going to buy one of these but am unable to make all these mods and if you think the stock board is crap, I’ve changed my mind.
This can be a fantastic printer even if you only do two upgrades: Install the DUET board, and replace the extruder with a genuine E3D Titan. Neither of these two mods are all that difficult. I've made an instructional video about how to install the DUET. th-cam.com/video/BgkJVgFnPaE/w-d-xo.html Do what you are gonna do, if a little modding scares you I don't think 3D printing is the hobby for you.
will the screen that comes with the little monster work with the duet board?
No.
Were you using Smoothieware?
If so, that is a known issue with the MKS Sbase.... There is no support for it and the best thing to do is just trash it. And I agree, I ripped mine out....total waste of time.
I was using Smoothieware. I completely agree with you about ripping out the control board and trashing it. I've since installed a Duet board into the printer and it's been nothing but joy.
Basically, just to dump oscillations you do not need a heavy counterweight. You do not want the flying extruder to be lighter, that is not the objective. All you want is that the short tube from the extruder to the effector remains straight even during fast prints. So my gut feeling is that a g-string with two pulleys and about an ounce and a half (around 50 grams) would be sufficient for that. Try it and then set values of accelerations and jerk in firmware to twice their current setting, then try to print with 300mm/s. Tell us how it went. PS.. I can't make any guarrantee this will not destroy anything. Its for science.
Maybe those drivers aren't good for the delta. Save them for a cartision.
Hi Norm! Thanks for the positive comment. Yeah, I'm saving the TMC2208 sticks. I can put them on my original Geeetech I3 with the GT2560, or I can use them on a Lerdge board if I ever get one of those.
What CAD program do you use?
I use Rhinoceros 3D. It's very intuitive and a joy to use as a designer, but it doesn't have the widescale usage of Solidworks, or the marketing/low cost of Fusion360.
what type of design software do you use?
I use Rhinoceros 3D,
@@DesignPrototypeTest thank you, I'll check that out.
Have you ever published your filament sensor?
No. I share this type of file with my Patreon supporters along with all the other digital files I make.
will do!
What's your take on the word "lever"?
Bill Herreid I wish I understood what this comment was asking. All that comes to mind is that ancient quote that you learn in physics class about give me a long enough lever and a fulcrum and I can move the world.
Design Prototype Test sorry, I didn't mean to be cryptic, I was just making a cheeky joke about "Tee-vo" vs "teh-vo". Some people feel very strongly about how to pronounce "lever" properly.
Bill Herreid Oh! I'm from the West coast of the U.S., so clearly, it's pronounced leh-ver. 🙂
@@DesignPrototypeTest Same here on the SE coast. Now Lie-ma or Lee-ma? :-)
Interesting possible upgrade: Add a counterweight to the flying extruder. As seen on watch?v=MKSP9Yhn4oI . Why would this be advantageous? well, one thing that would not happen - is that a counter weight could lessen the weight the motors have to work against, since what's important is the acceleration and when the motors need to pull down the carriages they will have to pull the counterweight up - so any advantage when the head is going up will be cancelled by a disadvantage when it is coming down. However, a counterweight will serve as a damper against head - extruder oscillations. Thus, you may be able to print faster. Choosing the right weight to properly damp oscillations without overburdening the motors could be tricky, more like a trial-and-error thing. You really need to experiment here to find the correct weight. But if done properly, you might be able to print even faster with same results. Good luck!
What, you cannot watch my vid of my rostock printing a bashguard with nylon?
So what wrong with watch?v=xxx? You just cut & paste it to the address line.
BTW obviously in that link the purpose was as you state, but the problem is that such a counterweight doesn't help in printing since the motors have to fight the counterweight all the time. Eventually to be able to print correctly with such a heavy counterweight, you print 30% slower. So it misses the whole point. What I propose is a light counterweight, same idea but much lighter, just to keep the bowden tube from rippling.
You forget that this printer has a very light extruder already. So the motors can deal with a light weight. The purpose is not "to make the extruder weigh less", its only to keep the bowden tube straight and prevent the resonance between the extruder and the effector. Of course that usually a counterweight is not recommended, but when you get ghosting you need to figure out a way to eliminate it. If it is a result of said resonance, then a light counterweight could resolve it.
But, coming to think about it, there might be other solutions. E.G print a long coil (spring) in TPU and wrap it around the bowden tube to push against the effector and the extruder.. Might work as well.
"Obviously China doesn't come up with anything original." *DJI would like to have a word*.
A typical response from a supporter of the Chinese Government. You forgot to mention Huawei and their ungodly number of patents recently filed for 5G technologies. The thing is that Drones weren't invented by DJI. Not even close. And the camera technology DJI is using is borrowed (stolen?) from cellphone companies like Samsung (S.Korea) or Apple (U.S.A.) who actually came up with the technology in the first place. Here is a DIY folding drone from way back in 2014: th-cam.com/video/A-Ncibxjamk/w-d-xo.html. There is a difference between being the market leader (DJI) and actually being able to come up with useful innovations. I stand by my words. You have not proven otherwise. China doesn't come up with anything original.
if something is important and needs a reliable connection, wifi is never the answer.
Whatchu listening to on them headphones anyway?
My own voice, like a good narcissist.
Seriously though, it helps me make sure that the Audio is good as I'm talking.
duet 2 wifi 236.89AU ouch
I was watching the first one and you ragged on the original board (and rightly so) for having non-removable stepper drivers. Which left me wondering why you would compromise your original opinion and use a Duet considering it suffers from exactly the same issue. Then at the end explains it, free.
Good point Joe. You've definitely been paying attention and this comment set me back on my heels for a minute. However, it wasn't because the product was free that I neglected to criticize. I'm free to say whatever I want and I do say it. Just look at all the negative things I say about all the free printers I get from Gearbest. The replaceable stepper driver issue was an easy critique for me to make in the last video because I was looking at a board with absolutely crap drivers, and wanting to upgrade. It didn't occur to me to say the same in this video because I can't imagine a better stepper motor driver that I would want to upgrade to. Do we criticize Ferrari for not making it easy to put a Ford engine in their cars? Then again, people do eventually do the motor swaps, so in the future I may wish that I had that option to upgrade. Today, I'm perfectly happy. The Trinamic 2660 chips can drive much larger stepper motors and do it silently with all the fault detection and other features of the TMC2130 chips. Outside of industrial applications there is no better solution for controlling stepper motors on the market today. Why would I criticize for non upgradability? What could I possibly upgrade to?
I love that a sweedish youtuber teaches an american at pronouncing English xD
there's some significant linguistic considerations that are missing from that comment, but overall I agree with both sources. Note, any ⟨te⟩ + vowel is usually pronounced /ti/, while there are also counterexamples (but not the ones I'd necessarily want associated with my brand: tegan, tepee, tedious, tedium).
I think that it is important to correct prejudice when we see it, rather than equivocating. this person seems to me generally a good man, and very accomplished, who obviously came from a wrong place in life. I don't want to hold his context or upbringing against him.
on the old board you could have swapped your tower wires around to troubleshoot a stepper problem (or a wiring problem).
you really don't know what you are doing....
The fact that the motor skipping was happening on multiple axis, and also with both the TMC2208 and the DRV8825 drivers really suggests that it's a problem originating upstream from the stepper drivers. Maybe it's coming from the main chip itself, but I really don't have a clue what could be causing it. The MKS Sbase board is a crap product. The folks at Smoothie have been saying that for years. After my experience, I totally agree with them. I fixed one issue just to be faced with a more difficult and insidious problem. Where will it end? If I fix this problem, what is the next one?
many stepper drivers shut down on over-temperature.
It's not that. I tried to print that part several times. It failed at the exact same movement each time. Like it was being forced to make the turn too quickly and skipped which caused the Trinamic to just stop working.
I had issues with the cheap Trinamic drivers from China. They skipped steps even though they had active cooling. I replaced them with high quality drivers from watterott.com and all the problems disappeared. Before blaming it on the board, use quality drivers first.
It gave a new Laser Sensor from duet3d www.duet3d.com/LaserFilamentMonitor Maybe the also clear filament recognizes ?
Okay, I wasn't focused. But are you saying "buy western" and buy stuff from China in the same video?
I didn't really get into it in this video, but I'm basically saying 'don't buy knockoffs or ripoffs.' There is a difference between stolen vs being derivative. The quality of the things coming from China will inevitably get better but not before they stop abjectly copying western innovations and producing crappier versions of the same. I do say to buy the TLM (a Chinese printer) because to the best of my knowledge it is not a copycat of a western design. Of course it comes with two blatant thefts on it. Namely: The whole extruder assembly which was stolen from E3D and the board which was stolen from Smoothie. These things are open source, but the purpose/spirit of open source is to progress the knowledge of everyone and advance the technology. By simply copying and producing a cheaper version China is taxing the system and putting a burden on the innovation. The western companies which birthed the innovations are being starved out of existence. For the most part only the western companies are innovating. That is why I say buy western and support innovation. Don't buy Chinese knockoffs and support Comu-capitalistic quasi slave labor. The day China is truly innovative and makes a product comparable to the DUET I will be the first to champion it.
Hahaha... Tevo is the ultimate RIP off. Started with the tarantula cheap and decent after you spend countless hours setting it up to print parts to make it more stable. The Facebook page was a life saver since customer support is non existant. Then I was talked into buying the the second gen black widow, esthetically it's beautiful but a fire hazard as well as being a potential electrocution victim due to an open ground. I caught it and raised hell with their Chinglish instructions until others saw what I documented. I rewired it properly but the on/off switch was a light duty inductive switch another shock hazard. Tevo sent out mods for repair, basically a new switch and an even harder wiring explanation that an MIT engineer would have trouble understanding. Then the extruder issue, no worries they just ripped off another well known companies extruder and labeled it differently and sent them out to those affected. Can't forget the extrusions being unequal sizes and the poly blocks getting jammed up seizing the z axis to the point of using a hydraulic press to release the cockeyed crap magnet. Don't forget the heated bed cloned from a genius designer and developer. Oh and locking the firmware up even though it was shareware. I made all the mods in my brothers shop, evening out the extensions to equal heights on the cnc, tapping the missed bolt holes, thread chasing everything threaded and replacing missing hardware. Final test...pure fucking melt down. The PSU shorted transformer arc'd and got so hot it melted the plexiglass case onto my bench. Sent pictures, video of what I had to do to get it to assemble properly and the carnage from the PSU and I was ignored just like many others. After numerous attempts to get them to answer my service ticket, I sent them copies of airline tickets and an itinerary stating my business at the US Embassy in Bejing to discuss potential threats against China and our US Citizens. I politely asked for a meeting to discuss the UL listings and how they were obtained. Two days later I had a new machine on my doorstep. I took it to the shop (my brothers business-fab shop) looked at it and never assembled it. I have no affiliation with the US gov't anymore other than paying my taxes and supporting the ones who design, develop, perfect and market quality products. A clone is fine as long as it has the blessing from the designer and compensation is made to that company or person. Tevo on the other hand does nothing but make this industry look bad with their arrogance and blatant ripoffs. I still use the Tarantula at times and about the only thing left that is stock is the bed and extrusions. Once dialed in it does 2 things...forces you to learn more than expected about the printer and design and how to diagnose printing errors. Right now I have a Prusa MK3, Anycubic Kossel, 2 Monoprice minis (my kids printers) and my best Ultimaker 3.
In fact I found this channel while searching for a solution to add my BLTouch to the Anycubic Kossel, even support the channel (nothing huge) with a monthly Patreon donation to receive firmware for the addition of the BLTouch, I never saw it come to light. I've seen it all now, calling out Prusa, Gearbest pusher and a Tevo fanboy. Tevo has zero innovation, the only thing going for them is the Facebook page that started with the lonely spider for build instructions and you say they are great? Ask Tom Sanladerer, he has tried, gave up then Tevo dumped cash in his PayPal account for reviews caught him completely off guard. Tom is one of the best and has no issue with telling it like it is versus being directed by Gearbest to write shill reviews in a positive light to drive sales. Your not any better than the Chinese crap you speak out against...hypocritical? 100%. And I'm still waiting on my firmware....
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Thank you for your long time support. Regarding the firmware for the Anycubic Kossel: I worked with my Marlin expert on that last year. We got it all functioning with the BLtouch and everything, but it just wouldn't work to level the bed. I couldn't figure it out and decided it wasn't worth my time. That printer has been sitting in Parts on my shelf ever since. I've had several other viewers asked me to pick up that project again. I had planned on putting an MKS Sbase on it, but I've scratched that idea for obvious reasons. Now I'm thinking a Lerdge board might be a good idea. There is a slight possibility that the latest version of Marlin might solve the problems I was having a year ago. Still, I would really like to get a 32 bit processor on the thing.
Regarding Gearbest and Prusa: I encourage you to watch my 10,000 subscribers video, I addressed a lot of the issues in that video.
skip to 7 minutes in to avoid the whinging! ;)
You complain about the filament rubbing against plastic in a manufactured sensor and then you design and build a sensor that the filament rubs against a plastic lever. use brass ferrules as one of the described sensors and a roller micro switch. BTW TiVo, whilst was/is a corporation, its name was based on the acronym Television in, Video out. Also I don't think the Chinese care how we pronounce their produces, providing we keep buying them.
Again, Good points Jon. The filament runout switch I made is not really any better than the one I showed on the video for sale on ebay. Which is why I showed it. Instead of going with my solution, perhaps folks would be better off just getting that switch. However, there are three reasons I think my design is better: 1)Because it is an optical sensor, It has no signal bounce in the switch (this is less than consequential in this installation, but for nerding out, it's pretty cool). 2)Because there is no spring loaded metal arm constantly applying a force to the filament there is theoretically less friction from the filament going through the hole and therefore less wear. The little flag/lever is gravity operated. I have no way of measuring the force it exerts on the filament, but I suspect it to be only a few milligrams. Of course a metal ferrule would be better, but what about the flag wearing out? Which brings us the the final benefit 3)Since I have printed the parts to begin with, if I notice any wear, I can easily print a replacement if needed.
"English speakers, native English speakers". You just outed yourself as a MAGA dude. So glad never subscribed, but these channel kept showing up as a suggestion. Blacklisting now.
You don't know me. I resent your attempt to categorize me onto team red or team blue. It's not a team sport. Stop deriving a sense of identity from it. You are part of the reason the system is broken. It's about right and wrong answers not about which team you are on.
@@DesignPrototypeTest ok MAGA hat.
The content is interesting, for a 3 minute video. You are putting too much filler in the video making it completely boring.
I take you along for the journey of creating and installing these upgrades. It's not a simple show and tell. It's not about the end product, it's about the process of getting there and lessons learned along the way. If you want show and tell videos, I suggest you subscribe to CHEP, or 3D Printing Nerd. Because of the algorithm you won't find many videos under 10 minutes on TH-cam these days, and the average view duration on this video is 9:36, so the bulk of my viewers disagree with your assertion.