Setting up a detroit diesel 71 series head
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2019
- Joe came in to finish up what the machine shop didn’t do right on the detroit diesel 671 head. The head that dropped a valve the day before that came out of the machine shop two weeks prior. Scott, Scott and Gary all pitched in.
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Man, that guy knows his shit.. Im guessing hes been doing that work for 30+years.
Jeremy Lay
Probably longer
Someday's your the Teacher Someday's your the Student. He learned alot today. Customers will benefit.
I learned a lot that ain’t in the book too. Yesterday he set up my governor with parts from other series engines to give me the best governor. That new governor does things i never knew was possible. It makes the engine perform like nothing I’ve ever experienced. Idle and high speed springs from a 92, a light weight setup and my engine springs to life.
Be sure you commit all of this to memory so you can do it to mine. I'm liking what I'm seeing. I'm also assuming this guy builds high performance Detroits.
Feel like I went to a Diesel Head University graduate course.
Agreed. It's all good!
Everyday in life is a learning experience. Man did he have some knowledge.
Joe is the reason America works. Smart, dedicated, and honest value.
Unfortunately people like Joe are a dying breed. Everything is throw away now. So sad. Real craftsmanship attention to detail, and pride in your work are not as valued as they once were. The funny part is is that it's rare now and not the norm so people like Scott and Joe seem exceptional. I'm not saying they aren't but it used to be way common to find people of their caliber. This video is almost the epitome of " the good old days".
@@TODDFINK1 That made me sad..
25:24 American tools too :)
That is a man that knows his job and explains why very well. So glad Joe could take time to get your 2 stroke head done correctly. Nothing beats experience.
This is by far my favorite episode yet. Love learning how the old school masters do it. I'm going to watch again!
This was one of the most informational videos I've ever watched on setting up a head. So much knowledge!
The work that Joe did here reminds me of all of the amazing things my Dad taught me while he was on the Blue Marble. Dad was a WWII Navy Machinist's Mate - aircraft mechanic and showed me so much about fixing v. replacing. Thanks Scott and team for these great videos, now documented for all in great detail.
Not to mention an entire thesarus of swear words.
Learning from the Master, Grasshopper.
One of the best Detroit 2 stroke head videos on the internet! Rebuilt a 453, had head rebuilt locally.....didn’t work out (crack was pinned and failed). Found Leid Diesel out of PA for a rebuilt head ....probably the best Detroit 2 stroke shop in the US! Extremely knowledgeable, answered every question I couldn’t find in my 453 manual.
Thanks for posting another great video!
I’ve worked on farm tractor diesels before, but after watching this video, the GMs are like a fine Swiss watch when it comes to tolerances that convert into reliability. My hats off to Joe, he is a master craftsman that knows the manual and the field experience manual... the best !
I’m a 26 year old engine builder. I rebuild Cummins ISM and ISX engines for local city buses and I’ve never seen or been taught some of the stuff I’ve learned in this video
Welcome to the wonderful world of 2 stroke screaming Detroits, lots of noise, lots of leaky oil and no power, stick with those Cummins best engines made.
The manufacturers don't want you to fix any of their parts , they want you to buy their remanufactured over priced parts.
When I was younger I served an apprenticeship,but after the 1970's Apprenticeships were reduced in value and the teaching of apprentices was considered to be non PC. Mostly by leftist politicos who didn't understand why apprentice wages were lower than a tradesmans rate.
As an Apprentice I was taught every aspect necessary to either be a good tradesman or a successful business owner . I worked on all sorts of engines including these detroits,cats,cummins, ,a lot of the English brands ranging from truck engines to marine low speed diesels (Sulzer etc ).Add to that the time spent learning machining,electrical and so on we given a very well rounded education . That appears to have gone now unless you are in some military job.
@@maxpuppy96 Don't diss Detroit 2 strokes. They powered American industry and a good part of the world for 50 years or so. They could be configured not only for LEFT or RIGHT Rotation but other things as well (like which side the exhaust manifold was on) and were reasonably inexpensive to overhaul. There are others that will argue your point about Cummins being the best engine made too. You got some pretty strong contenders in Europe (who invented the diesel engine?) if you start talking best engine made!
Mercmad now we have so much technology that is able to reduces the skills one needs to keep these newer engines on the road. Things are so much more precise and intuitive now that you don’t need a 5 year apprenticeship. I started in the military at 17y/o and worked my way up once I got into the civilian sector. Not to mentioned everything is specialized now so no matter how good of an engine builder I am, my company would never allow me to rebuild a head. Simply send it to someone who specializes in that sort of stuff. Nonetheless I appreciate the craft and am always open to learning and perfecting my craft.
I've never owned or worked on a Detroit, but I am an engineer. The simplicity, symmetry and flexibility of that design is a beautiful sight to me. So many things today are one size fits none, it's nice to see something designed by men trying to make the best solution, not a design by committee.
Thank you for a fantastic video!
I hate that you had to go through this but being able to learn all of that from Joe seems like a nice silver lining.
You can tell this man has spent a lot of time with diesel grease on his hands. It's a shame that these guys are going away and most of the time their knowledge is going with them. It's awesome that you make these videos to preserve some of this priceless information.
All you Detroit mechanics out there watching this video. Tell your coworkers, this video should be required watching and listening. If I were a mechanic I would download this so I could watch it again and again to get every fragment of information out of it.
VW guys may have read Bob Hoover's sermons. Joe is Bob Hoover's doppelganger. This was a real treat to watch.
This sure brings back old memories. I've set up many, many Detroit 2 stroke heads years ago. That's all behind me now but it's fun to see it again.
Old school mechanics are the best. No computer required... Parts changers need not apply...
Great video! I've been in the motor trade over 40 years...this guy really knows his stuff, great to see...was glued all the way through!
Greetings from Australia.
Now that gentleman is somebody who cares and knows their craft. And what typically works for me is the guys who spot signs of abuse quickly (ie: the vice marks, and the signs of hitting the valve with a hammer).
And extra kudos to your host as well. He's also good at documenting little details and clarifications, and he ain't bad with the camera either.
Newer buses are nice but I really like the old two-stroke diesels best. They have that hot rod caricature that I will always have found memories of.
Great vid of how it should have been finished the first time by the shop. While i am first to admit anyone can have an off day and forget to do all that is required to best fit as possible this seems to show it was more get it done quick and not give a damn about the finished job. These are the sort of things that would make me never go to this shop ever again, and I would warn anyone i knew locally to them to not go near them as their workmanship is bad. Imagine the mess this engine would have been if it had dropped the valve while on the highway at 60 MPH it would have likely have been a total rebuild or complete engine wreck. You obviously have lots of good Karma built up over the years to have such good luck it happened on a morning start where you were not hitting the road as soon as possible and were standing with the bay open and saw the smoke straight away. Still a pain to have to do so much corrective action and needless extra repairs due to someone else's bad work.
I always find when moving to new place the hardest things to find are a good Doctor a good Vet a good transmission place and ESPECIALLY hard to find a good mechanic that you can trust to do a job right the first time. This last one is hard because if he dont do all work in house which none can then he has to rely on others to do jobs he cant like you did in this case and if they let him down like you were he has to make sure to check their work before reinstalling to make sure all is well until he trusts their work enough to know they will always do it right.
You paid good money for a good job and got crap in return imagine if this was a head you had sent in for a customer and got it back and had installed it in their bus only to have all this go wrong not only would they blame you but they would be calling you out long and loud as a bad mechanic, which you arent, this shop that did this head should be named and shamed for their shoddy work to warn all to not use them, as they dont give a crap about their work
It's like secret squirrel knowledge worth gold. The 67 eagle is pristine😊 from BCM owner.
Elvis has arrived.
What incredible knowledge, I'd say Joe has probably forgotten more than most guys know but it sounds like he is an incredible machinist and doesn't miss a trick! Most of all willing to teach and share his experience. Makes learning a lot easier.
This is the proof of the old saying "you're never too old to learn something". Awesome knowledge and attention to detail. A lifetime of 'spannertime' evident here. I think you've got solid grounds to sue that machine shop, not least for misrepresentation and negligence, at the very least I'd name and shame them. Garys bus is a beauty, absolutely stunning, one can only imagine what the interior is like. Regards to all from the UK.
A master class! Joe is worth his weight in gold. Sadly, DD's are antiques. Everything today is replace, not rebuild.
A very wise drag racer/ engine builder once told me to go by this saying... “nothing fits and everything is dirty”, so pre-assemble and make it fit then clean it good before assembly!
What a master class in mechanical experience. Beautiful to watch. You must have the right tooling for that work. He is a cool teacher.
Guys like Joe are a dying breed. As great as they are in the field, they should really be in a class room or take on apprentices. Problem is most young mechanics already know everything and would not give these men the respect they have earned through years of doing things right. If your mechanic doesn't have gray hair, I doubt you are getting what you think you are. This whole head fiasco is a perfect example. In a few years all these great guys will be gone and the knowledge and skill with them. Great job Joe, but, I'm sure it's just another day and job for you.
Love the use of the speed handle--old school.
Never ceases to amaze me the engineering that went into these little yet all so important details.
Gary says, "I fixed an oil leak." Understatement of the century with these old Detroit diesels, LOL!
Fortunately Scott is fixing the world's oil leaks one Screamin' Jimmy at a time.
i like to see stuff broke apart, and fixed back together. that mechanic knows his stuff, tips too.
Your honesty about what you did not know was IMPRESSIVE!
Experience. Kids Practice,practice, practice. I was astonished by how stupid my Dad was when I was 19. What really amazed me was how much he had learnt by the time I was 21!
They are a smrt bunch of whippersnappers tho. These millennials are educated so much better than we were. The internet can make you as good or evil as you desire. So sad the teachers aren't paid up to what they should make. I'd love to hang out with Scott or this guy for a couple of months. The knowledge would just drop around them waiting for someone to pick it up.
Teachers are instrumental in your upbringing and thirst for knowledge. Do you remember one particular teacher that really influenced you? I do but I also remember the one's who were really bad.
Great video. When I first started driving in the mid 80s the mechanics that could work on the these engines were plentiful. At that time all the truck and bus engines were mechanical. Now there are very few left, and those that are still around are in their 70s and 80s. Love watching them and trying absorb a little of their wealth of knowledge. Befoer to long they will all be gone.
There was some serious knowledge being bandied about . Deep respect . Advice from an experienced mechanic is beyond gold . And you've got e real chance of being robbed in this world . Great video 👍🇬🇧
I thoroughly enjoyed this. Two major take-away's from this video.... 1) There's always room to learn more about the work that you do every day. 2) I'd say it's pretty official now - Y&S is no longer the "preferred" machine shop (until such time as they hire somebody with more knowledge and experience).
This is like watching The Traveling Wilburys of mechanics, a whole lot of extreme talent on this project. A real pleasure to watch. And you all seem to be cut from good leather too.
RB E great analogy
I am really looking forward to hearing your Detroit running again. This is a clinic on proper shop techniques. Your mechanic is a master of his craft, Love it!
Man it’s neat watching joe work. Amazing watching a pro work. There is a lot of knowledge working on the bus. Bet you wish joe could do the whole head.
Nice to see a true Detroit Diesel Technician. He knows his stuff. Too bad that your machine shop butchered the job so badly. Kudos to you for catching the problem as it failed Scott.
One Master passing down the secrets of a Detroit to another Master willing to listen and learn.. Fantastic!
Man.. some serious talent there.... Many years worth of knowledge... blood sweat and tears.... Glad to see some sharing...
Joe really knows his stuff, you can tell he's been working on 71's and 92's for decades with the knowledge he has.
2 stroke Detroit requires lots of special tooling and Knowledge (very important ) for correct operation . Many newer machinists and machine shops have no idea of proper operations for Detroit .
He did this for you! I have relatives out that way. They are very generous. No doubt he do this for friends and family, but not much more. Reminds me of battlefield mechanics I saw. They would do complicated machine work with hand tools on a bench or vice, under a tent. Nuts. Now, I want to see the video of when you get home and go to the machine shop.
No matter how much you know or how expert you are, there is always more to learn.
It’s nice to watch an artist at work.
Wow! That felt like a “Master Class” in head repair! Thanks all the way around.
Got to love those old school guys.
Wearing the old blue heavy coveralls in the middle of summer.
I sweated my way through many a hot summer day (night) wearing the uniform.
Never had to rebuild a complete head like that, always lucky in that the shops in my part of the world were still putting them together properly.
You forget how much work goes into doing the job right.
Great video.
Always love reaming the hole!
Watching a true master at his craft right there, that was awsome. I haven't subscribed to BCM yet, but will, and I hear that it is full of great tips for us laymen.
Guy sure knows his heads stuff , good guy to know !!!.
After this video, and what Joe looked at and did.
Those guys in the machine shop probably cut some corners, and they may just not have know what needed to be done to that head. They left out a bunch of steps.
It's a wonder that it ran as lone as it did before it gave you trouble.
Learned a lot I had no idea of.
A special thanks to your host/client Scott, for letting you use his garage, and all he did to help, so you weren't doing this out in some rest stop.
Also called....why not to put your head together in the street right before a rain storm. Glad you found this guy Scott. Nothing beats experience. Keep on busin!
Totally awesome of Joe to share knowledge like this.
Thanks Joe !
Long time ago The Interstate Battery Great Race came through St. Louis. I got to see a 1902(?) Mercedes engine completely apart laid on a sheet in the parking lot getting repaired. The man was covered in grease as his wife fussed that they were late for the dinner party. Lol This engine only had about 50 pieces to it.It was GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ha ! I would have told her to go to the dinner party and let me finish the job in peace. Lol....
I have a distinct feeling Lenny is going to appreciate this care :)
Guys like Joe are getting harder and harder to find these days,one in a million for sure.
Good to see Gary, reminded me to renew my subscription! Great video showing the fixes for your head.
What a wealth of information! I really enjoy working with people like him. I had the pleasure of working with people like him over the years, I hope I can pass on some of what they have taught me. Good Stuff!
Will we get an inside tour of Garys bus? It looks like its beautiful inside. And man, what a generator that is.
Jeremy Lay He Did a nice job of putting the generator in the compartment that used to house the road AC compressor.
What a great bunch of men.and so much knowledge between them all.not sure if its really possible but i feel so much smarter after this video . Im a bit old and washed up.but i still dream of selling my house and getting an old bus.
Injection timing is affected by injector protrusion, so is spray pattern to a lesser extent. I bet it runs sweet now. They usually sound different too.
Wow, I learn a lot on this vlog. Will sign up for the Bus Conversion Mag. Thanks, BGM
I enjoyed seeing how to set injector seats!
Truly unfortunate you had to find out the hard way, this stuff is great to watch, but way beyond my pay grade. Great video !
I always hate fiddling with -71 rockers but today I learned at least one new thing and I been doing these for a while.
Exception video explaining operation of all the parts of the head and what is critical to performance!
BGM, what a road trip this has been thus far. Who knew when you left Indy it would turn out to be so eventful. You helped your clients with their needs and then you find yourself at the receiving end of needing help. You get it and now your Lenny is running and sounding strong and you have new knowledge. What you have received in kind you will surely return it. Maybe your first Burning Man festival will provide an opportunity. Safe travels...🖖🔧🔩
Really nice looking bus, Gary! Another interesting repair job with some top bus mechanics learning from old-school, masters. What a great bunch of guys lending Scott a hand when he was in trouble!
Great to see it put together correctly now great learning experience
The God's of diesel engines meet. I am surprised there wasn't lighting. The Masters at work!
I feel as if I just watch the Yoda of machining and mechanics explaining how the work is done and why. When you have someone who really cares about the quality of the job they are doing it is a pleasure to watch. Too bad the people at the machine shop never bothered to learn how to properly do the work they were hired to do. Maybe they can watch the video or better yet hire this man to come and teach them the proper way to do what they charged for doing.
Machine shops aren't what they used to be, sadly. Glad you're blessed with a guy like Joe to help set things up properly on the head.....I had the good fortune of having an old timer by the name of Garland Eisele mentor me at Cummins Mid-States Power years ago. Can't beat experience....and it's the best learning tool around.
Love the valve spring tool
Scott, you and Joe make a good team! A machine shop that doesn't do the work right is worse than useless. A bad shop can set up a situation that can easily become disastrous. Nothing you don't already know.
Awesome stuff! He really knows his stuff, amazing knowledge and experience to do it "by feel"!
That was amazing... so many ways to get it wrong and only one way to get it right ! ! !
Seems all the machine shop may be good for is surfacing the head, and grinding valves. I've got a feeling BGM will need to hunt down all those special service tools for future customers, as I'd wager few machine shops out there have them these days, and if they do, the guy that knew how to use them retired 10 years ago.
Great to see a guy working on this that knew all the word of mouth amendments that never got inked into the DD shop manual. Every day's a school day, and only when you stop learning is when you get old.
Let me add another WOW to these comments. This video really shows the details involved in properly setting up a Detroit head by a man with obvious experience. Looking back at the crappy job the machine shop in Indiana did, it is a miracle you made it to Oregon with such little damage. Your customer turned out to be your savior. LOL, I hope you gave him a discount. As always, thanks again Scott for your great videos.
It wasn't so much a crappy job but the best that the least experienced man could do. Scott learned something that he needed learn a long time ago. Just one more tuition payment to the school of hard knocks.
Always great videos to watch and always amazing good old school knowledge learned. I remember using that injector cup reamer back in 1986 at Lincoln Tech.
I’m glad you are getting it fixed now.
Really enjoyed this video. I love the old school master mechanics. They are very few an far between
Scott I can tell you were truly humbled by this man named Joe, as I would be too.
Your supposed to use cutting oil on those injector tubes when cutting the injector seats. I used to rebuild heads for a Detroit diesel shop. Your also supposed to pressure check all those tubes after installation and cutting the seats. I uses to rebuild everything on your 6-71 head including the cam followers.
What a wealth of knowledge Joe has
What is that valve tool? I’ve never seen anything so cool and easy to use!
Hey Scott, thats some video, big thumbs up to the camera person, so enjoyed the wealth of knowledge from the master, did my diesel fuel injection course on Cummins, Lucas & Bosch way back in 85 when i came out the Army , nice to learn new what they did'nt teach me, that engine sure is goin to purr, cheers, Chas, uk.
It's always great.. When you have someone the know's a lil more than you... Should be a Happy Lenny Bus Now..
Great video! Theres not a single class or school out there that can teach you what someone like Joe knows from turning wrenches all these years. Its true shame that alot of the old skool folk are dwindling away, with all their knowledge. Not to many of your video you make that I dont learn something new!
Wow, you hit the mother load in great help! Glad you found these knowledgeable guys.
You've certainly given me plenty of food for thought with this one Scott.
Man! That guy knows his stuff!
The amount of work Joe needed to do to make that head RIGHT is incredible - if only the machine shop had cared as much. A lot of that I learned years ago, but never got to practice it(sometimes life takes you in a different direction). Specifications, tools, proper work ethic - that's all that was needed. Now it's time to call that machine shop on their b.s., & hopefully save others from the same fate. And as for the gentleman from Bus Conversion Magazine - all I can say is "wow"...that bus looks great for 52 years old. He said he had the engine "turned down" to 450HP - I'd like to know what it originally spun up.
No exaggeration is possible in this case, period, but we're in the presence of greatness!
I remember being a snot-nosed kid, (early 1970's) visiting a best-friend's family's (charter, and line-run) bus garage, on several occasions, and watching a gentleman who had to have been born near the turn of the 20th Century, "set racks: first, by 'feel and instinct'; then, he'd dial everything in - by measurement". If memory serves, his last name was "Ash", and he was a long-time mechanic for a bus company called "The Short Line"...
Found two of their buses, and out of the same location where he worked: www.flickr.com/photos/davidwilson1949/3496528947
Awesome!!! I could listen to him all day!!!
What a fantastic video.
I've had two heads machined built up and returned. (4 cylinder 4 stroke) I did not know that there was so much to worry about. Mine were fitted. torqued and worked.
Wow what a treat. I could not stop watching. Thanks!!!