Not So Simple | Is An EV Cheaper To Run Than Petrol?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Nothing lasts forever, so it's time to revisit the age old question: which is cheaper? You'll hear plenty of opinions proudly proclaiming a definitive answer yet there's more to this question than meets the eye. So to find out what's REALLY going on, stick around as Dave Takes It On.
Email: davetakesiton@gmail.com
Twitter: / davetakesiton
Patreon: / davetakesiton
Special thanks to all those who have contributed to the channel. Your support means everything.
Patreon Supporters
Above And Beyond: John Buckoke
VIP: Tom Davison | Gary Heavens | Kodzo | Kenn | Andrew Leader | Jason Herrick | Lee Houten | Graham Russell | Wayne Follett | phil rundle | Stuart Joscelyne | Tom Walker | Michael W | Barry rathbone Ledsom | Peter Hartland | Charles Siddons | 2 Thumbs in the Thumbnail | Ray Daly | Simon Smith | Richard Waghorn | Rachael McLoughlin | Stephen Bagwell | Catrin Hubbarde
Supporter: Paul Egan | Kim Edwards | Alan Williams | Nicholas Campbell | David kramrisch | Peter Lawrence | Oliver Roche-Clarke
TH-cam Super Thanks:
geoffpeters8843 | brettkemmerer1310 | leesmart1971 | michaelketley1252 | ballathiam9486 | esa4aus | stephenappleby7897 | cjsa9253 | Joe-lb8qn | rayd332 | StanDMan01 | Mora41 | 68smurfin | 1973Hog
About The Channel:
Dave Takes It On was founded in 2023 and focuses primarily on content about electric vehicles and issues that impact drivers. Dave is based in the North West of the UK and owns a Tesla Model S. He regularly travels around the country, so if you see him feel free to say hello. The channel is supported by his son Jonas, who helps with thumbnails, titles, and technical aspects of the channel.
Videos You May Like:
Home Charging Explained | Is A 3-Pin Plug Enough For You?
• Home Charging Explaine...
Ford Slashes EV Production To Stem Losses | Dire Consequences For UK Vehicle Sector
• Ford Slashes EV Produc...
Volkswagen In TROUBLE As Electric Vehicle Sales Fall To Zero
• Volkswagen In TROUBLE ...
EV Charging | Why I Hesitated About Sharing This Hidden Gem
• EV Charging | Why I He...
Why Sainsbury's Smart Charge May TRANSFORM The EV Charging Landscape
• Why Sainsbury's Smart ...
How Driving Will Be FOREVER Changed
• How Driving Will Be FO...
The EV Charging Price War Is Just Beginning
• The EV Charging Price ...
Charger Compatibility | How The MG4 Handles Tesla Superchargers
• Charger Compatibility ...
Tags:
#electricvehicles #evcharging #davetakesiton
Disclaimer:
This video may feature materials protected by the Fair Use guidelines of Section 107 of the Copyright Act. All rights reserved to the copyright owners. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![ทัศนศึกษาโรงงานผลิตโค้ก [THAI/ENG SUB]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M9y-TJBNem0/mqdefault.jpg)
My Kia E Niro 4+ that I had for the past 3 years, did 27,572 miles and used 8,087.896kWh from mainly home charging on various rates from 11p down to 7.5p. Total cost of those miles was £874.26.
Bearing in mind petrol prices were very high over these last few years, so I guessed an average of £1.60 per litre and 40 to a gallon. That would have cost £5,013.79 if I still had an ICE car.
Also costs of servicing were around £150 every 2 years for the EV, my Audi needed £400 to £500 per year just for the service, every year.
The reason you should swap your EV for an ICE car is that you want to spend much more money on fuel and maintenance as well as a large amount on servicing! Got to keep all of the car garages happy and petrol stations open!
EVs don't need an oil change sparkplugs changing fan belts or air filters changing name the rest
EV actually have oil in the reduction gearbox that does need changing. Just not as often.
Only Tesla's. Other brand ev's you'd still need to go for interval servicing to change its reduction oils, filters, coolant
Doesn't outweigh the extra insurance and in 2025, they'll be paying more roadtax than my diesels
@johniooi3954 so do ice vehicles. DSG for example.
@@stuartburns8657my ev insurance went down.. don’t know where all this more expensive to insure rubbish is coming from.. not my experience
well done with this video - clear, could not be made simpler explaining why EVs are cheaper than ICE
Nice comparisons. I can't charge at home, so I use lamp post chargers. Most of my driving is around the city, and it is amazing how efficient my EV is for this compared to my old car. It is an absolute no-brainer for this use case, even factoring in occasional longer journeys with lower efficiency and top ups en route.
Thank you for a properly objective view into the running costs of EVs. Too many times I've viewed reviews where they purposely choose a journey they know the EV can't do, charge it back up to 100% half way through, at the most expensive rapid charger they can and then go "LOOK... SO EXPENSIVE!". They treat the exception as normal behaviour, whereas the average person only does over 200-300 miles on very rare occasions.
Thanks for all your down to earth advice Dave. I recently got a Jag Ipace. Almost exclusively charged on overnight cheap rate (Eon 6.9p KwH) giving me an MPG equivalent well over 300mpg!!! For me thats the killer comparison figure.
Being able to home charge makes EV very compelling to me next time I update
Happy to wait another year or two however as tech, range, costs, chargers are all improving constantly
Thanks for the clear information
Hi Dave. Firstly I have to say I have been following you for a while now and enjoy your presentations, I have to tell you I thought this presentation is absolutely brilliant a clear comparison on owning an ICE car or an EV, within the last 6 months both my partner and myself now run an EV and could not be happier. A change of mindset is all it takes we will never go back to an ICE car not ever a specially when the EV tariffs available are so cheap. Thanks again. Andy
I fall very much into Daves example, mostly charge at home @7.5p / kWh and a couple of trips per year. Recently a 500 mile trip to Scotland which cost £90 on pubic chargers and a cheap top-up when I got Home. A lot of day or long weekend trips e.g. Southport, Blackpool, North Wales, I can happily manage from Manchester on a full charge and no need to use public chargers.
Yes, Stewart. Amazing how many people fall into this pattern. Too many people get the idea in their heads about needing 500 miles range and paying 79p every time they charge yet actually need neither.
i have an old vw transporter camper this had been my daily driver and my camping trips. i have now bought a mk1 nissan leaf this now does my daily driving. very rare do i do more than 60 miles in a day and i can charge at home. by the reconing you have shown i save quite a biy on fuel and wear on my old van.
More and more people are doing this, bigger main car, small short range EV run-around
Dave you are referring to averages to be "fair" and that makes sense for your comparison.
On the extreme end, we added solar / Powerwall to our home to reduce my electric bill and ensure we do not have any power outages. The residual benefit of this is that the car fills up on sunshine for no payment so my cost per gallon is "0" and no time spent driving to and from a petrol station.
How long before you're at a net 0 on that installation though? It will take years if not decades. Maybe years in the UK with the expensive electricity.
How about during the winter?
@@casperhansen826 Doesn't need direct sunshine, will still get some on a cloudy day, and you can fill the batteries at cheap rate overnight...
@@Gazer75 8 years based on current electric rates, more if they go down (ha ha), less if the rates increase. If I include savings from not filling up the car then about 5 years or so
Winter lasts 3 months of the year so that means even if you didn't get any free energy then you'd still be getting it for free for the other 9 months, still worth having however you look at it.
Great video! I would like to see a total cost calculation with averages including insurance and car payment. I currently own two vehicles one first generation EV and a petrol car. Why incoming upgrade the petrol is because it's paid off I do not believe "fuel" savings would outweigh the other variables.
I love analysis and comparisons, and you covered this very well as “the UK avg”. I had my new hive charger fitted last week, moved to BGas (saving £35 pm regardless due to lower tariff), but i get 12 months of off peak charging for FREE !
Important message, don’t stick with the norm have a look around. If you can get a year free charging grab it. Now if only we could arrange things so that we only ever charge at home it would be perfect. I’m working on that
I run a 2024 Mini Countryman S E Sport (up to April it was a Cooper S E) and a 2023 D250 diesel Defender - even going from an EV that could average 4m/kWh to one averaging 3.7m/kWh I still manage to keep to my £20 a month electricity use for car charging but even if I half fill the Defender once I’m looking at £65 minimum, and usually I’m looking at a minimum of £140 A MONTH for the Defender’s fuel - then there is the AdBlu cost and servicing at the local JLR Dealer at £140 an hour just for labour then there’s the annual 8.5ltr of oil and a filter that my EV don’t need………. Yes the Defender is scheduled an oil change every 2 years / 21000 miles but I use it for what it is capable of doing and not as a shopping trolley so that requires an annual oil and filter change.
chevy volt, my car literally runs on both. it was almost cheaper to run on gas a couple years ago when it was 2.5$/gal, i avoided public chargers which were more expensive and just used the 1gal equiv battery charge at home. now its the other way around. with a chevy volt, you always win. home electricity here is 10cents/kwh. it costs me about 2 cents per mile right now while gas is sky high. just did my once every 4 year oil change lol.
Here's your expected comment: I'm in the U.S., so everything is in U.S. gallons and U.S. cents. I previously drove a Prius and I got about 52 mpg (really!). I live less than a mile from Costco, and prices would fluctuate around 3.20 per gallon. My Prius cost about 6.2 cents per mile. Now I drive a Tesla and get about 4.2 miles per kWh. Our local energy cost is around 11.3 cents per kWh (nothing but flat rate is supported) and thus 2.7 cents per mile. Still way cheaper. But wait! As a retiree I spend a lot of time walking at a municipal park which has free solar powered (partially) charging available. I get about 1/2 of my total power from that source along with plenty of exercise. So now my cents per mile averages around 1.35 or about 22% of the cost of inhaling gas fumes at the Costco. So even with a higher electric rate and a much more efficient comparison vehicle, I'm still way ahead. I suppose the downside is that I am no longer able to save on oil changes at the local Jiffy Lube😂.
BMW iX 4-year service plan is £410, including an MOT, can’t get much better than that, try getting an ICE service plan for more than 3-years and less than £1200 !
Nice peace of mind at very low cost I have no problem with that
Kona 24 , I seem to get 4.8-5.2 Miles per Kwh ECO mode.
Just returned from a weekend in London, 150 miles each way for us.
Well beyond the 200 mi!e range of our 54kWh Zoe.
Full charge at home @ 7.5p/kWh = £4.05.
Charged on the way back 27kWh @ 79p/kWh £21.33.
Total cost for 300 mile trilp was £25.38 (ignoring the 20% remaining charge when we got home).
Thats 8.5p per mile.
We usually only have to charge away from home once a month if that, our normal cost is around 1.8p per mile home charging.
However the motorway services charging infrastructure is hopeless.
First services we tried to charge at had 2 gridserve chargers, both occupied. There were also around 12 tesla chargers but not open to all.
Second services we tried had around 10 gridserve chargers, one not working with a blank screen and the ac chargers either side also dead. All the other chargers were in use.
By this point we were down to 5% SOC so had to wait 20 mins for a charger, several other ev's pulled up while we were waiting then drove off as no chargers available.
If the hotel we stayed at had destination charging we would have been fine.
That is why I bought an 80kwh Enyaq. I can do virtually all journeys without using a public charger. Futhermore the charging situation is improving all tthe time. BTW a 22kw Fas charger can provide over 80 miles per hour if you drive sensibly.
I just spent the weekend in Cheshire, in a Kia e-niro, topped up on the way up at Tesla Supercharger at Gloucester Services, same on the way back and charged the car from daughter's garage using 3-pin plug for local journeys up there, round trip was 450 miles - wouldn't go near Gridserve or the like. I have Tesla App and membership - anywhere I go I can easily find Tesla charger, 44 pence on way up and 55 pence coming home.
@@pauleast4372The return journey we ended up taking wasn't what I planned, we should have been on the M4 passing Redding with 4 supercharger locations open to non Tesla's. As we departed London the sat nav announced the M4 was closed and routed us up the M42 instead, the first superchargers were Tesla only and we didn't have the range to reach Banbury.
Whilst expensive, Gridserve are fine for occasional use it they have the chargers available and working. I must be unlucky as I only have a 30 % ish record of finding available and working Gridserve chargers.
Even if they just added 12 or so 22kW AC outlets in separate bays at every services as a stop gap it would help at peak times.
Hi Dave, do you need to have a home charger installed or would using the 3 pin plug constantly suffice? I guess you'd have to take the cost of the charger and install into account before the cheaper electricity costs starts to even out.
you can use a three pin plug but you need to make sure you plug is at the correct level, best thing to do is to get a proper outside connection for a waterproof 3 pin socket. Works fine and if just for top ups perfect
Not necessary but definitely helps having a charger and I wouldn't be without one. So for added cost £1000 installation / (10000 Miles or whatever you drive a year x over let's say 5 years) = add on 2p per mile
If you were looking to get onto Intelligent Octopus Go you would need a compatible car to get on the 7.5p rate. Worth baring in mind that it's only for 6 hrs so a 3 pin wouldn't be making the most of that cheap rate and you'd possibly be charging either side of the cheap rate at the higher rate.
I replaced my ChargeMaster charger (that we got with our Zoe) to a Zappi for £750 (replaced the unit myself as all the other caballing was done) to get on the tariff as my car isn't compatible (MG ZS). I use around 9000kWh a year at home of which approx. 3000kWh is for the car. But, I now load shift the dishwasher/washing machine overnight and in winter pre heat my office over night (elec panel heater) and on our last bill we had a near 50/50 split of peak/off-peak so average cost per kWh is around 17p. I believe replacing the charger will have paid for itself in no more than 1.5 years (looking more like under a year) as we are saving £75-100pm. If I had it installed by Octopus from scratch it would have been about £1200.
@@TheBladesman-ig1cu Ah but it would add to the house value so you get that money back when you sell.
I wouldn't personally, ours cracked the plug socket and almost caught fire. Currently saving for a wall box.
Oy.. I can;t help being a 'wally' it's my name.. 🤣🤣😂 PS Great video.. Hi.. From Perth Western Australia.
Enjoyed this. As a low mileage user it's not just the fuel saving. EV's are a joy to drive, fast, quiet and when you're stuck in jams not having to be up and down on the clutch and going through gears makes driving so much easier. Not for everyone I know. I may be wrong but having an Octopus EV account means very cheap to charge during the night but does it not mean you pay more for the standard tariff during the day so you need to do the maths ...
Octopus is one of the few with virtually no penalty at peak times to compensate for the off peak
One other way to save costs recharging an EV is if you visit family or friends who are a long distance away, charge at their house if possible and return the favour when they visit you. This works especially well if you can arrange to stay over night and they are on the Intelligent Octopus go tariff -You can't do that with an ICE vehicle.
This is likely to become much bigger business in the future. If I travelled regularly to a specific family member and stayed there, who had no home charging, I am sure I would consider paying them to get an Exterior weatherproof socket installed and talk to them about switching to a cheap off-peak rate. If they too had an EV and home charger, I would definitely plug in and offer them the same at my house when they visit me. Great idea mike.
Just used a Tesla charger at Darts Farm Topsham for my Seat Mii. Very impressed 44p/kWh and so easy to do with the Tesla App. Only slight inconvenience was that the cable was very short. Only charge at home normally, if I do have to charge other than home then Tesla chargers is a no brainer even for non Teslas
Kind of sad when you're impressed by 44p
You'd be stupid to pay more than 40p here in Norway tbh. The most expensive ones are up near 50p. These days I charge at roughly 33p.
My local Tesla SuC is 38p/28.5p off peak, but it's one of the most expensive in the country.
Nice, I considered stopping there last week, only I couldn't see any nice food places or cafes nearby, what's it like?
@@Gazer75 not sad at all, normally charge overnight at 12p/kWh, currently charging at home off solar for free!
@@GeorgeFoot only been there a couple of times, there are café shops and takeaways there can't comment if they are angry good.
I have done similar calculations myself. My summary:
Commute and shopping: wake up to a full tank at 2p/ mile
Road trips in my Tesla: 10p/ mile
If I need to use third party: 20p/mile
Geoff and MacMaster are busy figuring that out right now... Driving to Benedorm.
Hope it’s one way
can't really charge at home, but work has paid for chargers at 11p per kwh :). seriously considering and EV, around £8 a week to "fill" compared to the £80+ for the ICE for the same range
Workplace chargers can be a realistic alternative to charging at home. 8 hours charging at work instead of 5-7 hours off-peak at home overnight.
I'm not criticising your figures, but for someone who has no access to off road parking so wouldn't be able to charge at home, I also work nights and my daily commute is 60 miles round trip, my employer won't put in electric chargers in the car park, I wouldn't be aversed to paying, we have but one working charge point in the town where I live which is in the most expensive car park (approximately £5 an hour), that becomes expensive.
Unfortunately the other disadvantage is the initial cost of buying the vehicle, I would have to find a minimum of £10000 for a used vehicle that hopefully will manage my daily commute, I also can't pay with cash, I don't have any form of bank/credit card, I can't get one and because I have always bought outright with cash, I'm not considered credit worthy so I can't pay for the electricity that I would need
Sadly I am only an average working class person, a Tesla is well and truly out of my reach even a used Tesla is well and truly out of my reach
The trouble is averages is that no-one is an average driver. You have an average daily journey distance and it's fine to say that that is entirely covered by home charging.
But that remaining 10% of miles is where roadside charging comes in. It's only 10% of the miles for an average driver, but it's 60% of the energy cost. For high mileage drivers it can be as high as 50% of the miles - and it's high mileage drivers who typically have the disposable income to afford a brand new EV (any EV - even the cheap ones aren't so cheap). So their experience and opinion carries more weight than the average driver (for new cars at least).
So does a high mileage driver (20000miles+ per year) get a cheaper driving experience? If 50% of their miles are provided by roadside charging, then their running costs are no doubt higher than running a similar diesel. That experience forms an opinion which in turn affects things such as supply/demand for new EV's and all that ends up affecting depreciation.
Now Carwow recently compared depreciation between EV and non EV cars. 1 year old, 10,000 miles. Many similar cars from the same brand were compared side by side, and the petrol cars didn't depreciate as much in % terms as their EV siblings.
Depreciation has been the biggest ownership cost with any vehicle, but the thing about depreciation is that while it is a record of fact at the point of selling your car, those records of fact for the market as a whole do change from one year to the next. Two years ago, you could sell some EVs at a higher sticker price than a new car. Who's to say what will happen next year.
Conversely, many your low mileage drivers (6000miles or less per year), used to have an appetite for a new car. A brand new Citroen C1 10 years ago was selling for £8000 pre reg. That small car segment isn't so well catered for now. You either have to step down to quadricycles, or step up to an E-Corsa, or go 2nd hand. So taking the E-Corsa option, brand new, your running costs will be tiny but your depreciation will be in the "yeah - no thanks!" territory.
I signed up for Tesla charging. My car is a Kona EV. 44p per kw compared with 55p for the local council EVSE or 79p for the likes of ESB, Shell, McDonald's etc. Only drawback is the nearest supercharger is a round trip of 60 miles from where I iive and the car although has a stated maximum draw up to 79kw never gets above 60kwh in the three years I've owned it. Plenty Teslas at my local EVSE though.
I cannot charge at home but I have four pod point 7kw chargers a two minute walk away in my local Tesco and it costs me 44p per Kwh. I get about 4 miles per KWH so still works out half the price of petrol.
also on this with Tesla opening up I cant see how the average ultra can be 80p now, I drove to Newcastle and topped up at Fastnet in Washington for 65p. A sweet get further down this line, that average I think will settle around 60/65p per kwh within 18 months or so
checked and the nearest Tesla open to my car - MG4 is currently charging 52p as I type
Dave has been pushing the idea of a price war for some time now but despite more Tesla chargers opening to all there doesn't seem to have been much in the way of downward pricing for other charger providers, in fact some have increased their pricing. We don't know what deals Tesla have done in terms of price per kWh paid to the supplier or rents paid on the sites they occupy and how these compare to other charger providers. You also have to remember that Tesla are selling the EV experience with their cars and the associated charging network whereas all of the other providers are just selling you charging. By pricing the charging the way they have and making charging very simple it has made owning a Tesla a more attractive prospect; this is something that the other charger companies don't really care about. (I'm not a Tesla fanboy I have an Ioniq 5 but I can see the attraction of their approach to the overall experience)
@@paulweston1106 sure so can I I just don't like their look. I have already seen some downward pressure around here and Osprey has two locally gone down. However in joint locations if Tesla's are much cheaper it has to force some down. As it stands though as Dave showed it is about the same as petrol, however with charging at home the odd fast charge is kinda irrelevant.
For those who don't like gallons and miles: 36mpg is roughly 6.5L/100km and 4 miles/kWh is about 155Wh/km.
Love gallons & miles ! Hate the lying toe rags who post petrol prices in litres instead of gallons as it should be in the UK, see who would buy ‘black gold’ at nearly six quid a gallon ?
I'm hoping electric prices will continue to fall. Not convinced that public chargers will follow.
Not sure if you covered Octopus energy free charging, I plugin my car say at 4pm in the afternoon, the Octopus app sets up free charging times before the low rate times and sometimes even after that. The other point is, in Scotland there are still free chargers and low rate 50kw chargers at £0/15p/kw. I thin these cheap chargers extend down to Newcastle area. Far to man y variations to talk about!. Certainly better than ICE tho, they have 1 choice, look for the cheapest outlet, wich they are usually all the same.
The only way i can justifie owning my ev is at home i have an ev charger thats connected to solar only, so its free in the summer months. Last year 2023 i saved £794. As that would have been the cost at my tariff.
crazy cheaper is the answer
Hi Dave, greetings from Oxford. When I committed to buying an EV back in 2019, I naively assumed what I spent on petrol would end up on our electricity bill. How wrong I was! Charging my BMW i3 overnight costs us less than £2.00 on Octopus Go. On this I get about 90 miles in the Winter, and up to 140 miles in the summer. I charge when I get home and see the charge status is about 25% give or take. So I am never charging from empty. This is similar to my previous combustion car, in that I didn’t wait until it was empty, I would fill up once the fuel gauge was under 1/4 - that used to cost me £60, and I had to divert to get to my nearest Sainsbury’s or Tesco petrol station. 45k miles on the clock, and I’ve not had a single oil change, cambelt, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter. But I have bought some screen wash and car shampoo. Love my EV, never going back to an infernal congestion engine!
Shampoo? Crazy expensive, is that necessary? Great story Simon and very typical of viewers. Which bit do the EV deniers and haters not understand?
Then there are those of us who can trickle charge off the solar panels for about 8 months of the year. That is free at the point of use, or actually the amortization costs of your solar/battery combination. A more complicated calculation to be sure, but helluva cheaper than petrol or public charging.
Ah, now you're just showing off. Free electricity! and free EV driving!
Solar panels and battery storage.
Basically, "How long is a piece of string?" ;)
It is, everyone's experience will be different but the more you shop around for your home energy and public charging the cheaper it will be. Just like everything else.
@@stulop Yes.
The only thing you can say, with any certainty, is that in the majority of cases driving an EV costs only a fraction of the cost of driving an ICE car.
I'm happy paying around 2 pence per mile. But if I had to travel further from home, paying 80p per Unit, I would still be quids in over the year! :)
@@DavidPlayfair We do a regular trip to London that needs us to stop for 20 minutes charging on the way back. Good news, Tesla at Amesbury is now open to me. Driving electric started off ok but it just keeps getting better.
My M3 stats show that i used 94% home charging using Octopus Intelligent Go @7.5p 4% Tesla Supercharger and 2% other chargers (Down in Pembrokeshire there is limited Tesla Superchargers ie none!) my stats show i saved £999 over using petrol in the last year.
With all my travelling mine are nearer 70% home and 30% Superchargers and others
For me the argument is simple.
If you have petrol coming from a tap on your own house wall that costs you 2p per mile to use, how simple do you have to get before you decide to abandon your own supply and pay for petrol at a filling station at 20p per mile.
And at what point on the IQ scale does one realise that they actually do have such cheap fuel coming out of their own house and use it.
If your ICE is high mpg but low annual mileage it's really not that clear cut
@@stuartburns8657 it is. Your ICE needs servicing regardless of mileage.
And with cheap EVs about to swamp the market to be snapped up by young drivers with families, ICE will be the overpriced boomer-mobile no one wants.
@@truebrit3670 Funny, most EV's I've looked into need you to go to the stealerships for the yearly 'service' in order to keep the battery warranty.
@@stuartburns8657 then you don't understand warranties.
@@truebrit3670 And perhaps you don't understand you've invalidated your depending on make and manufacturer
Cheers Dave
think you left out the free charging part.
I used to have a 206cc 2.0l that got the 36mpg according to its own measurements. I has a 1.4 diesel fabia that said it got 60mpg. Though that is VW group and they have been convicted for lying criminally.
Just curious why cars in the UK are still sold/discussed about using a Miles Per GALLON number, when you buy your fuel in Litres? We're at least consistant.
Your gallons are different to ours too 🤦🏻♂️
Because we measure road distance in miles for a start so multiplying the quantity to a gallon is simple and consistent 😁
It's irrelevant if electric is cheaper or not, the world transport is moving to electric and governments will find a way of getting as much revenue as they need from the motorists. People have to get through their thick heads that diesel and petrol have to be reduced to a minimum.
I have octopus go and it's 9p
Intelligent Octopus is 7.5p you get an extra 2 hours minimum and often bonus time like 8 hours. I use a 3 pin plug and im on Intelligent.
@@usefulrandom1855 Our charger isn't compatible with the Octopus 7.5p tariff, so we also pay 9p. It was installed by the company as part of the company car scheme. It cost us £185, so paying for a new charger to save 1.5p was never going to happen.
But you don’t need a compatible charger for OI, you can set it up to control either the charger OR the car so you don’t need a compatible charger to sign up for OI.
@@timoliver8940 Well that's what Octopus told us.
07:38 - Corsa at 5.0 kWh. Best joke I’ve seen today and I know I have an e208 which is basically the same car. 4.0 in Summer, 3.2 in winter, who the F ever gets 5? 😂😂
I know but CarWow said it so it must be true! Maybe you’re charging it wrong 🤣🤣
Sadly, using the average mpg also doesnt work; it is based on long journeys; the vast majority of journeys are only a few miles - far too few for the engine to heat up properly, and for the fuel mix to lean out enough to reach that average; the bigger the engine, the longer it takes (I am talking internal engine temp, not the radiator water temp).
My last ICE car could exactly match that national average MPG - on a long motorway run; around town I was lucky to see 20 MPG; and in the winter it was nearer 18 MPG.
My EV does roughly 5 miles per KWh around town (on the flat; 4.5 with the steep hills), 4.5 at 60 mph for spirited country road driving - dropping to 3.9 at 70 MPH on the motorway.
All this equates to my last ICE car costing me £40-£45 per week in petrol, verses £2-£3 per fortnight in electricity (E7 tariff); then you have to pile on all the service items on the ICE car.
The ONLY thing my little EV cant do easily, that my ICE could handle, is the run from the Midlands to the Alps for the ski season (my 7.5 y/o EV only has a 90 mile range).
Don’t forget at the moment no car tax.. im sure it will come but still free at present
There was an American chap who ran the equivalent ICE and EV vehicles for 5 years, covering around 100,000 miles in each vehicle. I accept this was in the USA and might give a slightly different result in the UK but he recorded every cost and found that over the 5 year period the total cost or owning and running an EV was the cheaper than running an ICE vehicle by the grand sum of about US$80 (yes - eighty!) - each had a total cost of around US$120,000. This took into account vehicle cost, insurance, servicing, depreciation and all running costs. Once you get into year six and beyond then EV's will be considerably cheaper than an ICE vehicle - excluding battery replacement if you are out of manufacturers warranty and it fails.
The only issue with that (and it's a huge issue) is that in America fuel is really really cheap.
@@markburton8303 Don't disagree with that - I did note it was in the US where petrol is US$0.95 (75 UK Pence) per litre so if you factor that (as the only difference) then EV's (in the UK - all other costs being equal) would work out at around (over 100,000 miles) 2000 GB pounds cheaper.
@@dublodave7860 the same costing for fuel for my current stats ( average p/mile = 4.3 including public charging and £6.81 for a gallon of petrol (45mpg assumed))over that 100000 miles is £4268 for my EV and petrol car would be £15155. So a saving of nearly £11k. Enough to buy a new battery should I need one.
@@markburton8303 Don't disagree with the maths but you probably paid 11k more for an EV in the first place. A friend of mine recently bought an EV (a Volvo in the end) but he was originally looking at a VW T-Roc but the EV version was 11k more expensive than the ICE powered model and that put him off. I know EV prices are coming down but there are still some very significant differences. The car I drive, the difference between new EV and ICE models is close to 20k - crazy...
@@dublodave7860 I bought at two years old taking advantage of the depreciation everyone raves about - I got a Enyaq for the same price as a two year old Merc A class with a rubbish smaller engine. I had an independent battery check before purchase. So all good in my book.
I went into a grocers, there was a barrel full of apples which said on the sign Apples £1 each, on the other side of the sign it said Apples £0.20 each, same barrel, same apples, if you feel better buying at a quid each then help yourself !
But the 20p apples have a £1 insurance premium..
@@stuartburns8657 do you not insure your car?
@@truebrit3670 Yes. But not at EV insurance pricing thank you very much
@@stuartburns8657 how much is your insurance. I insured both my EVs for £700 in total. That's £320 and £370 but the latter was business insurance. Both Inc legal cover.
So what was yours, thank you very much?
@@stuartburns8657 fully insured until you claim !
I charge on a three pin plug, at 5 amps. It takes ages. But today I got electric at 7.5 for the car and the whole house, from 1:21 pm until 5:30 am. So the savings are massive for me to do it this way. At the time of typing I have spent 2.14 pence for my electric, Charging, cooking, and washing clothes, dishwasher., and Sundries. a bargain. who needs or wants to charge fast. Slow is best. As long as my car needs charge I get a good plan for the whole house. If I use a 7kw charger I would only get from 11 pm to 5:30. am
Our 3 pin charger almost caught fire.. apparently they're not supposed to be used every day (opinions on the internet were split, our electrician said it was fine).
Recommend you get a proper charger if you can.
What's the car Keith? On a Tesla, even connected to type 2 EVSE, the app allows selection of charge current. No granny charger needed.
I don’t think that the 4 miles per KWH quoted is a realistic average as most EV’s will average nowhere near that , especially factoring in motorways and dual carriage ways. 3 to 3.5 miles per kWh would be more realistic.
I did quote as low as 2.5m/kWh but 4 is now quite normal. The best selling cars, therefore the most numerous on the roads, are Tesla Model 3 and Y and both regularly get 4m/kWh even on motorways. Even I always get more than 3m/kWh and my Model S is an big, ancient 8 year old relic.
I would still say that 4 miles per kWh is an average for a very efficient EV rather than an average one. I accept the point that a modern Tesla is able to achieve this but these cars have superb efficiency. The average efficiency on my MG4 is just under 3.5 miles per KWH on a variety of roads/driving conditions. Anyway, keep up the great work, your channel is excellent.
these are of course real numbers, no faking it at all remembering the average driver is around 200 a week as well.
Obviously the capital cost of an EV needs to be taken into account - ie the purchase price compared to a petrol variant. Depreciation, servicing, etc. These all complicate the calculations.
However, a large family (say 6 or 7) where they could not charge at home could (if it is safe to do) still gain by being on the Octopus Go tariff - by using as much of their electricity within the time that tariff allows. It’s where solar and a storage battery could make the calculations more complicated, but possible. Every situation requires the potential EV purchaser to take into account all the changes. It is too simplistic to just compare the energy costs, whether they be fossil or electrical.
There are other things to consider - like the CO2 emissions per year, less airborne pollution for the urban population. And so it goes on….
OK. On Autotrader right now. A 2021 Vauxhall Astra Estate 15k miles 1.2 petrol is £12700.
An MG5, a better car in every single way, 26k miles £13500.
What is it about this that prevents a barrier to those wanting fantastic performance, excellent quality and low running cost.
And for the insurance one of my EVs is an MG5. I get 5 miles per kW. Insurance is £320 fully comp with legal.
@@truebrit3670I think the fact that from the first day of ownership with a new EV has a much more of a drastic depreciation. It’s basically £10k knocked straight off the price you paid the second you drive out of the showroom. So yes buying secondhand is more appealing I guess, I bought brand new and don’t regret it tbh
@@truebrit3670 They did mention depreciation in the comment, of the two I would say that the MG5 has depreciated more than the Astra which is good for someone buying used but definitely has to factor into calculations when buying new.
@@danewhitfield6498 all cars do that. Its the price of owning a new car. Enjoy. You only lose when you sell. If you keep it, you'll never lose.
@@paulweston1106 only because EVs have had a recent price correction to bring them more in line with ICE. Out of the too its MG all day long. I wouldn't touch the Astra.
The correct answer to this is really really simple. The correct answer is depends. Your welcome 😂
Yes.
Try calculating it in litres per 100 kilometres, as we do in Europe, instead of miles per litre….while your cars are rated in miles per gallon!
Hello mate
I dont get 7p i pay 28p at home. I cannot find an ev chsrger that would cost. Me 40p per kwh.
Octopus, OVO Eon, EDF, British Gas all offer off peak tariffs for EV owners. Maybe switch suppliers? Its free!!! and takes only about 10 minutes. Re: your 40p, go on Tesla.com click chargers then find open to all EVs and you will see lists of them, including 66 new locations this year alone.
@davetakesiton yes that is right they do but it's better for me to keep economy 7 tariffs as its 4 hours longer. We do most of our washing , dishwasher and sauna in this period. No good having 4 hours cheap rate for us.
Cmon, every other person doing this does cheap petrol and expensive electricity in a pair of stupid cars. Dont complicate it even further.
So if your average 4p per mile EV driver with 250 mile range goes out on a road trip and only fills up at 85p/kw, how far can they travel / how many times do they recharge before petrol breaks even?
Not a direct answer to this and not exclusively on 85p/kWh (why do that?!) but just got back from a roadtrip to Italy. 2039 miles, £218. That works out at around 11p per mile. First charge at home, the rest was at a combination of Superchargers, expensive chargers in Italy and an Airbnb in Switzerland at 44p.
Consumption was 604kWh of which the first 70 would be negligible cost at home, leaving 534kWh which if the price was 85p would cost £453. Add the home charge, call it £460. Either of my petrol cars does about 28mpg which is around £477.
Still not sure why anyone would seek out 85p/kWh though?
@@djtaylorutube that's a great real life example. EV triumphs. 👍
I agree, however none of the savings actually become apparent until at least after the first year of owning an EV and a home charger. As the charger itself (mine for example cost £1,000) which cost me more than my annual petrol bill doing around 4,000 miles for the year. So although it will one day be cheaper, right now I have to account for the additional £10-15k extra the actual car me compared to its ICE comparisons and the additional £1k the charger has cost me. I won’t see any actual savings during my time with the car assuming I will upgrade or get a different one within 4-6 years. And then the same will repeat (minus the charger cost).
Do you have to buy new though? With your low milage, a second hand EV would be the most cost effective solution, surly?
@@Hell-Hound1 nope, I thought the same. I went to a dealership to buy an ex-demo EV which had only 8 miles on it and it was up for sale for £10k less than brand new which was a no brainer amazing price! However… getting that on finance they have to class it as used - which means the rates are 10.1% as opposed to the 1.4% on brand new. Effectively making the used car a very similar price as the brand new in the long run. I ended up going brand new because of this and I assume it’ll be the same scenario for all makes and models unless you’re going in there and just buying outright with cash.
@@danewhitfield6498 Well if you have to finance, then maybe you have a point.
@@Hell-Hound1 I’d say the vast majority of people looking for a £35k+ car will be financing. Then again a lot of people get them much cheaper via salary sacrifice etc
If you do 4000 miles a year you can get away with using the 3-Pin charger, supplied with the car (or £100-200). That'd do 12 miles in 3-4hours at 9p on Octopus Go (2.25p/mile), so you'd need an outside socket installed, £50 DIY, £100 for a sparky to do it, no need for a dedicated car charger.
I ran the numbers and figured the lease on a used electric plus the cost of electricity was less than I was spending a month on diesel for a 50mpg car. Payback period is near zero.
Not for me it’s not
That's the point of averages though. It's not just about you!
But don't forget Dave as the Daily Moan or was it the Scum said Bev's need new batteries every 10000 miles plus tyres and brake pads very 5000 miles due to their weight it's going to coast ££££££ to run so lets go back to horses and cart 💩best technology and lovely tomatoes 🍅
Executive Summary Answer is yes but you need to have the capital to buy the car in the first instance.
Second hand Kia Niro 3yo @£20k with 4 years warranty remaining. What ICE car would you choose to compare it with?
That's only a valid point if petrol cars were free.
@@Hell-Hound1 Even better Model 3 same price access to all superchargers.
@@usefulrandom1855 I picked the Kia not only for its price but, because of its warranty which at 3yo is still longer than most new ice cars.
@@Hell-Hound1 I got a 3.5 year old Model 3 Long Range for £21k. 8 years or 120,000 on the battery and motor so I have 4.5 years as I wont hit the 120,000 mile limit. The niro needs a "service" every two years so maybe £1000 over the life of the warranty, you are essentially paying for the warranty. Tesla have no such demands for a service.
The warranty for other bits is only 4 year/50,000 but as suggested the roughly £1000 spent on services for other cars should hopefully cover anything if its need which I doubt there will be anything anyway.
What about people who haven’t got a driveway or the time in their life to wait for charging. When battery tech is down to 5 min from 20% to 80% charge then people may decide to switch from ice to EV but the battery tech is just not there yet for the average person. Cost of Electric Cars are also a concern for people.
on those - yes charge at home is limited but majority can do it, for those that can not then councils are installing outside stalls and this will increase. As for Battery tech 30 mins is not a lot if on a long journey when supposed to be taking a break anyway, if for home use sit there and listen to some music ! As for cost of the actual cars they are coming down and fast, my MG4 was only 35K eqiulivant ICE would be 30K and much cheaper to run.
I can charge at home but only with a granny charger, less than 3kw. If I need to fill it up for tomorrow I go down to the car park which is 5 minutes walk away and leave the car charging there for a few hours and walk home at 11kw, collecting it later. The point being is we do everything we can, not to wait for a charging car but have it charging when you are doing something else. Like at Lidl or Sainsbury's, it can be plugged into a rapid charger for the time we're shopping at 50kw or more. If I find myself waiting for the car to charge I'm not happy. I do everything I can to avoid it. New EVs are not cheap but are getting cheaper. Used? There are some real bargains out there right now with 4 or 5 year warranties still to go.
@@stulop what naysayers forget is that we are at stage 2 of EV adoption, it is now for the mass market after early adopters and as more of us get one we talk about the costs, performance etc to friends and family. the second hand market is starting to get these new gen cars and that means more availability and lower costs.
@@ianrob4760 Around 3 years ago before getting this car I spoke to our HA. They said you can't install a charger, we are looking into an association wide solution for home and on street charging. 3 years ago and still no news lol.
Electric car prices are now on a par with those of equivalentt ICE cars. You can pick up very good used EV bargains. Get on to your council and arrange for a cable channel across he pavement. Regarding charging speeds suppose you have a 60kwh battery. 20% to 80% is 60% or 36kw. 36kw in 5 minutes is 12x36 = 432kw. That is almostt in reach.
Why does your wife drive a petrol car when you're so much against ICE? You reckon there's plenty of cheap EV's on the market now?
Hi Harry, I am totally against ICE cars due to pollution, but have never said everyone can or should immediately go out and buy one. In fact I have often said, wait till your car is due for renewal. Not everyone can afford to go out and replace a car for an environmental reason. This car was bought even before I bought my EV, it is a little cheap run-around doing really low mileage so at present there is compelling environmental or economical reason to scrap it. When either my EV or my wife's car is due to be replaced, or finances permit, it will be replaced by an EV.
@@davetakesiton At least you're honest, if hypocritical......with all your views and income from TH-cam, I thought you'd be able to treat the wife to a little Zoe and get rid of the old, dirty petrol car (it won't have a particulate filter either).
i charge for free from my solar panels
If not on SEG, you actually paying about 15p cause u can export and get 15p.
So do I.
Same here! Today has been excellent for it!!
@@markkelly9095 ive been on FiTs since 2015 so the more i use the more im paid so i am being paid to charge .
That's 15p/kWh or 3.75p/mile
Yet again there is no such thing as average. You can talk about the min and max prices, min and max costs but nobody is average. You get meaningless numbers.
Think should do one with ice and ev all fill up at services. Whilst other at home and local supermarket.
Then do average
Well you can use median prices which are definitely nott meaningless.