I live in Australia and never go for repairs or service to my car brands dealership as they rip you off massively. All the Chinese new brands have to do is make spare-parts, diagnostics and repair instructions available to all registered independent mechanics and repair centers.
They will never do that. There are no spare parts or manuals for chinese appliances, and the cars are the same. Basically they are a disposable product.
@@Briany-r5o the most likely thing to fail is a cell in the battery pack. Even someone like you could buy one of them😉 That said, with producing enough of them, it won't be long before spare parts are available at junkyards
@@veganpotterthevegan New Updates: How Long Do Electric Car Batteries Last? Written by Liz Najman Researcher May 20, 2024 Shopping for a used Tesla, Ford, Hyundai or other used EV? You’re probably curious about the condition and health of the car’s high voltage battery. Battery life is a big question for used EV shoppers, and for good reason. Lithium ion batteries are an expensive black box - they can be up to 30-50% of an electric car’s value, but are very hard to evaluate. If your EV’s battery dies, you won’t be going anywhere until it’s repaired. Recurrent’s team of battery scientists looked at battery replacements in our community of 20,000 cars and found: Unsurprisingly, the highest rate of battery replacements come from the very first generation of EVs on the road. These cars are now 14 years old - not too shabby for a new technology. Between 2022 and 2015, average battery sizes increased by 122%, meaning that newer EV batteries can stand to lose more capacity before they need replacement. As battery management systems and thermal management systems improve, we should see even better battery life and fewer replacements, even after more than a decade. * Most EV batteries are still in cars There have been two major battery recalls in recent years, both related to similar battery pack flaws in the Chevrolet Bolt EV and EUV and the Hyundai Kona Electric. The remedy for both of these recalls was a sweeping battery replacement program covered by the manufacturers. Other than these two recalls, though, battery replacements in the Recurrent community remain rare. Across all years and models, outside of big recalls, only 2.5% have been replaced. This increase from last year is entirely due to older cars. For cars older than 2015, replacement rates are 13%, but under 1% for cars from 2016 and newer. * But, we can look back at early EV models, such as the Nissan LEAF and Tesla Model S, to get some sense of how they degrade over their lifetime. So far, it seems that EV batteries have much longer lifespans than anyone imagined, since very few of them have been replaced, even once the 8-year, 100,000 mile warranty period ends. Looking just at models from 2015 and earlier, only 13% of drivers have reported a battery replacement. Not bad considering how far technology has come in almost 14 years! When you jump to newer EVs - even those from 2016 and later - battery replacement rates drop to under 1%. In new EVs, nearly all replacements are covered by a warranty, except in rare cases of an accident or damage to the pack. Recurrent
@@veganpotterthevegan I guess that will depend on whether they go the Apple route of serial numbering components; it won't just be Chinese electric vehicles, they'll all do it to lock in the customer.
When I was a kid in the 70's, electronics were what the Japanese were famous for building- TV, Radios, eventually VCR, walkman's- I would have never guessed that the country that invented the hybrid automobile would drag its feet so much on going all electric. It's very puzzling to me....
Japan is an occupied country. The USA runs Japan. The USA is an Imperialist Empire. Western Imperialism is wealth extraction (land, resources, labor, human mind etc..) from the World for the benefit of a Racist Elite minority. Imperialism keeps and forces countries to stay under-developed and dependent. Japan has been kept on a leash since the Plaza Accords in 1986. China is Sovereign. No foreign occupying army. Chinese Government OWNS it's money creation and money is to serve society AND NOT the 1%.
It's a case of company getting so big, it either takes a long time to make a major decision or no one dares to make major decision. It's the : As a ceo, I am well paid. why rocked the boat mentality.
I was a kid in the 80s and it was the same with the Japanese. However after the crash of the 90s Japan flatlined in growth and innovation, it's just not the same as it was...
What Toyota and Japan can't do is bribe and liaise with Corporates and Media at Davos where pro EV subsidies, targets eg Net Zero are set. What Australians need to do is set safety standards. Eg when your battery pack us deliberately lit, does it go into Thermal Runaway? Is the resultant fire(s) dramatic enough to total hundreds of other cars and bring down buildings? Yes to both? Unsafe! Can't import, build and sell.
TOYOTA IS BULLSHITING. They are panicking. Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi is in trouble. I can see it happening in Indonesia. They are playing the "oh the resale value is higher than the China cars" .. it's not working anymore. The buyers are getting smarter. China cars are up there in premium quality
@crosslink1493 let's wait for the reliability report after a few more years. After all, the Chinese cars are relatively new to the market. At the same time, their build quality is quite good. Likewise, there are recalls of Toyota too. Does it mean the high reliability continues until today?
@@crosslink1493 I don't think anyone is saying Chinese Cars are built Better than Toyota or Tesla. Their Selling Point is They are CHEAPER, A LOT CHEAPER. There are a lot of consumers who are looking for something just Good Enough at an affordable Price. Hyundai/Kia were Junks when they were first introduced outside of South Korea, look at where they are now.
I have driven chery omoda in Indonesia for almost 2 years and close to 20.000 kms. No issue so far and still drives like a dream. It looks much better than any japanese car in the same price range. No more japanese or european cars for me, they will be a thing in the past. Their arrogance in ripping customers off by selling subpar car, claiming it will sell better after you buy it makes me laugh.
@@crosslink1493 There's very little public data, because it's proprietary corporate data. For example, Tesla has service data for the exact same cars built in Shanghai, Berlin and Fremont. Tesla internal metrics show Chinese build is clearly superior to Fremont, so they sent Chinese techs to California to try and train the Fremont workers. I suspect it's mainly that Chinese techs have more, better hands-on experience and better teamwork with cross-training in self-organizing, self-improving teams.
Who has a good dealership experience? Buying a car is like getting into a street fight, and getting your car serviced is like getting mugged. Dealer Experience!???
I would rather have access to a good dealer network, most medium size rural towns will have an agent for most popular brands. Where as companies like BYD use Mycar(ex Kmart tyre and auto) which once you get out of the major cities is non existent!
I've had great dealer experiences at Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, and a used dealer that sold Chrysler. In cases, I used a no-haggle car buying service, so there was really nothing to dicker about. I was also trading in cars that were barely drivable so I was happy to get anything for them. It all worked out fine.
@@Paul-b2s4j , I just own a EV , 3 months now , They were surprise to see me asking for service . 3 months is 9 months too early for brake check . - I said , i need help , to peel off the plastic sheet protecting the side mirror .
It's nice to have a convenient dealer network to take my car in for maintenance and repairs. It's even nicer to not need to take my car in for maintenance or repairs because its electric
Repairs and massive maintenance works are more costly for ice cars in long terms but also more time consuming. EV should also have regular maintenance and checking for safety, but the wear and tear is much much less. To begin with, there is no engine gasket leak issue. My son's branded ice car is 10 years old, i can smell unburnt petrol when standing at a distance from it (not to mention that the burnt petrol exhaust gases are toxic.)
I have had Toyotas and Hondas exclusively for the last 35 years in the U.S. and I HATE taking the vehicles to the dealers as they will RIP YOU OFF on repairs. It's different if you have a warranty -- as they will need to fix it. Otherwise, I avoid them. Total scam as they try to sell you high-priced repairs you don't need.
@@doncody8465 I'm 58 and have been driving since I was 17, so 41 years. Im on my 28th car and I took a single car to a dealer on 1 occasion. The experience was so poor and expensive that the rest were all to a mechanic. Dealer networks are optional for maintenance and repairs. For 30 of my 41 years I had a single mechanic who i developed a fantastic relationship with. You will not get that at a dealer network.
Notice this: All the Chinese manufacturers sell DIRECT to consumers hence bypassing the dealer channel which takes up a chunk of the profit margin. That's cost savings for consumers and also improves profitability of the manufacturers.
That's great. But when it comes to Service, it could be quite painful to deal with. Car isn't like a Laptop or Phone where you can mail it in for repair. I am not sure how many of them are willing to pay for Mobil Technicians like Rivian and Tesla during the early days.
@ If you worked in the Auto Repair Industry, you would know no sane Shop Owner would want to deal with that. Car repair is nothing close to repairing a Phone, Computer, or Appliance. If any Manufacturer wants a repair Center, they will NEED to open their own Repair Center and train their own mechanics. That is EXPENSIVE.
The best part of EVs is that there is no requirement for a dealer network. Tesla has delivery centers - no need for "dealers". Yes, those centers do have some service functions but if its anything like our 5 year old Tesla Model 3, we've never needed any service. We bought a Cybertruck 5 months ago, took delivery at a delivery/service center and we haven't needed to return.
Toyota, if they were around in 1900, would have said “All we need is a network of stables doing good service re-shoeing horses, and greasing wheel axles….the horse and buggy is all the customer needs.”
Watched a TH-cam video recently where American talking heads discussed the reasons for Nissan's downfall, and I was amazed that they seemed totally focused on it being Nissan's missteps, I kept thinking, look over your shoulders guys, the Chinese are coming for everybody. I should add, I'm a proud owner of a new BYD Shark 6 😁
Hi Sam, Funny story I went to a Toyota dealer in Melbourne to test the bz4x and the salesman would not let us drive it as he started telling us stories of how he gets headaches from being in EVs. I told him that my 2019 Tesla has been nothing but wonderful for 5 years and he wouldnt hear it telling me another story of how much money his friend lost on his Tesla. I asked him if he had a tin foil hat and he ignored that I think with salespeople like that Toyota is doomed
Funny story 2. My wife and I went to a Toyota dealership looking to buy only an EV. Yes they had one down the front but “it’s battery is flat we can’t even open the door so you can look inside and it’s been there for 5 months” That despite the fact that there was an EV charge point on site 20 metres away.
The last time we were in a dealership we were leasing a car for my parents. It got so bad with the salesman my wife stood up and took my parents to the car, without saying a word. She was so angry and insulted by the lowball offer for their trade in. Next thing you know, the manager ran out to our car, opened the door and begged my wife to come back. She screamed at him and slammed the door closed. Well, I stayed and ended up getting the best deal ever - thanks to my wife being tough! LOL
You're thinking that you got a good deal . It's because they made you think you got a good deal . I once saw a shrewd buss man, He said its a good deal . I seek him out next day , Remember yesterday that you said the buyer got a good deal , I just pull out his flyer with the same item and point it to him , That buyer paid more than you advertised . - He smiled , grinning from ears to ears , Then say , it was a good deal , A good deal for me . - And added, , i'm in thus family business , 40 yrs , and we never lose money .
You got YOUR best deal ever, but I'm sure the dealer still had a bunch of money in their pocket. If I were disrespected, I would find another dealer. Or sell my old car privately.
With all the competition in China, who would think they ignore customer service? Why assume that they don't know what they are doing? Instead, better to believe they do and add to that better pricing, quality cars, and continual improvement. I would take them seriously as my competition. This reminds me of what happened to American car companies when the Japanese started selling cars in the US. They laughed, and in the end, the Toyota and the rest laughed all the way to the bank.
The book The Reckoning by David Halberstam explains the history. It's the opaque financial set-up of the Chinese brands that is worrisome. Can it be assumed, right now, that they are not profitable ?
Toyota is $190B USD in debt (worse than VW & Nissan's) and facing multiple catastrophic engine recalls, devastating mechnical defects (transmissions, suspensions, etc.) and inferior quality/engineering issues. It's nothing but a downward spiral from here for the soon-to-be global has-been.
I'm sure Toyota must be right. Just like all those Brick and Mortar stores were able to give better service and not go out of business when Amazon came along. Oh....wait....
Exactly. I have not bought a new car since 1986 because I refuse to go to a dealership and experience the abuse I know I'll experience. Been buying used from private sellers since just to avoid the pain and expense of going to a dealer. If I buy a car in retirement, I'll look forward to buying online from Tesla and avoiding the greedy, sleazy, dealers. What I really hope happens if my old Honda dies is that robotaxis will be established and I'll avoid car ownership all together.
Remember the Blackberry phone that everyone back in the days swore by and criticized Apple for coming out with a phone with no buttons? They said nobody would buy an Iphone and the Blackberry had nothing to worry about! Fast forward to today and the Iphone is the number one selling phone while Blackberry exited the phone business and now is a software company focusing on cybersecurity. It's going to be interesting to see what Toyota ends up pivoting to when BYD eclipses them globally in sales.
It appears that Chinese automakers will dominate Australia and New Zealand with EVs for city driving and plug in hybrids for rural and long distance drivers. I bet the BYD Shark passes both the Hilux and the Ranger in sales.
Toyota is having a "Blackberry moment" or a "Kodak moment", or both. In Malaysia, BYD partner with a well established company for showrooms and auto shop. No point in investing heavily in infrastructure when your touchpoint with clients is usually once a year. "Good old fashion customer service" for me starts precisely in not having to go to the shop!
In my country we have a saying.... Most if not all sales people are liars. But the worst are car sales people. When they are selling this brand, they can claim how good the cars are. But when they resigned and work for another brand, they will turn around and say the (new) brand is the best. And the best part? Some can be found driving another brand!!
I wonder if this was how horse and buggy makers reacted to the quickly improving and considerably more powerful, flexible, and cheaper to maintain "horseless carriages" of their time.
@420031 GM cars were produced by Fisher body works, Fisher was originally a carriage maker and their logo was on the sill plates of every steel bodied USA domestic produced GM car for decades. Too bad GM didn't learn from it's own history.
In 1865, in the UK a law was passed to reduce steam engine speed limits and combat engine ‘nuisance’ by requiring a person to walk sixty yards in advance, carrying a red flag to warn of the engine’s approach. The advance lookout was also to signal the engine to stop whenever alarm to horses on the road looked likely. This ensured the engine could not travel faster than a human walking and thus would be slower than the established horse and carriage. It was a protectionist move by the established horse drawn transport industry but dressed up as a public safety measure.
Getting good service is important in IC engine cars, because engines require regular maintenance. In contrast, electric cars do not require any maintenance and the software can be updated automatically. So, customer care is a non issue in EVs.
I've got a Toyota with 150,000 miles on it. Regular maintenance services I can do myself - oil changes, filters, spark plugs at 60,000 miles. The only services I had done by a mechanic was the serpentine belt and one brake job. Just routine maintenance and it still works. Waiting to hear or see reliability data for a Chinese EV.
Reported 6 Nov 24: More than 300,000 angry Toyota and Ford owners who bought defective cars over the last 10 years will face an even longer wait for compensation after a High Court of Australia ruling in Canberra today. The cars affected included Toyota Hiluxes, Prados and Fortunas with diesel engines, and Ford Focus, Fiesta and Ecosport models with a dry dual clutch transmission problem. Yes such great service from Toyota (and Ford). And 300k customers is a lot in Australia.
Evergrande has $500 billion in debt. And that’s with massive Chinese government support. Oversupply of property, now they’re just doing oversupply of cars. Not very smart are they?
Toyota is an automobile manufacturer and distributor, but it is also a finance company. It provides loans to buyers through its subsidiary, Toyota Finance. It borrows this money from banks. Do you think banks would go bankrupt due to the huge amount of money they owe to depositors?
Hi Sam. BYD opened their new dealership here last month. Yesterday, driving through the city, I saw four different BYD cars. MG, Omoda, Jaecoo, and others are opening dealerships. Legacy ICE brands are going to take a big hit, and it's going to hit fast and hard.
It's just normal to lose some market share with more compatoters!Nothing to see here!Chinese will mostly buying Chinese car brands for nationalistic reasons!They hate the Japanese so much!The word is big and the Toyota group has still the advantage of scale,and smaller Japanese car producers will work together to lower costs!
Winning by providing service?? Seriously? I have my ICE car serviced by an independent because the dealer I was using was lying to me to sell unnecessary services and parts. The final straw: a full set of tyres - which the local Bridgestone store confirmed was totally unnecessary. He's got to be dreamin'!!
Toyota group is doing amazing!Here in Indonesia there is a 24/7 openair Japanese car brand party on the street every day!75% brands from Toyota and 23% other Japanese brands!It's heaven!
I’ve owned many Toyota’s over the years and the reason was I never ever went back to the dealer after a purchase, the cars never broke down. So the dealer network is not going to save them.
It sounds like 1976 during the oil crisis when the big three North American makers said "we can't possibly get better gas mileage from our cars." That average was around 16 mpg or 15.7 l/100km. Also reminds me of younger co-worker telling me in 1985 "why did you buy a CD player, they will never take off?"
@@crosslink1493 Why BS? I think the general "Kodak" point is the digital photography revolution was ignored by Kodak who couldn't see how their film cash cow could ever end. This resulted in Kodak quickly becoming totally irrelevant in the marketplace. So it's a like for like comparison with legacy auto makers not considering the EV revolution, and not pivoting fast enough. Couple that with the untold billions China sunk into auto manufacturing - including giga-casting, battery technology research, and end to end supply chain development, and even the average joe can easily see the huge potential for catastrophe for legacy auto companies. Makes perfect sense, no bots required.
@@crosslink1493 Funny enough, Kodak didn’t disappear because there was no demand for film at all. It met its end because it couldn’t achieve an acceptable profit due to its declining market share. Declining market share + debt = the end. See how simple it is? Similarly, current legacy automakers are struggling with profitability-they haven’t had acceptable profits in years. And let’s face it, nobody is going to take out a 30-year mortgage for an ICE car to restore their profits.
Well if it is an AI bot reply then I’m really impressed as it seems to its stuff. Kodak and BlackBerry are always great examples for companies to NOT want to repeat. So hard not to though.
Many companies go bankrupt every year, and no company wants to share their fate. Yet, year after year, other companies make the same mistakes-again and again. This is especially true when they deny reality, dismissing it as a "Chinese AI bot." In such cases, the crash tends to come even sooner.
There is an element of Truth to what Toyota is saying in my case. I have had my Honda since 2008 and am definitely in the market for a new car with all the modern safety stuff. The only car in my price range that ticks all the mandatory requirements and optional ones for me is the BYD Selion 6 plugin Hybrid. However, although I am the second biggest city in Victoria, there is no local dealership and the nearest service center is 50km away and it would be serviced by a 3rd party company that does not really give a hoot about the reputation of BYD. This has put me off as I like to keep my cars longer term. If there was a local Dealer and that dealer was the service centre I would most likely have have bought it fer sure. For now I am waiting for a few more new offerings from established dealers before I make my purchase.
I’m set to buy my first EV car, Sealion 7 soon and now I am deep into your videos. Similar to robotics and AI, the automotive industry is super interesting due to all the fast paced changes taking place. Thanks for your commentary, especially on the Australian market. Keep it up!
A good dealer network to fix things that don't need fixing in an EV. Sometimes they don't need fixing in an ICE vehicle. Selling vehicles that pollute while at the same time are about 1/4-1/3 as efficient. Good luck with that.
Everybody tried to make as much money as possible,nothing to see here!If you are clueless you will get ripped of everywhere in every sector of the economy,so knowledge is the key to not getting ripped of!
Love Toyota as a brand. For decades they have produced excellent quality cars for reasonable prices. This is what made them one of the biggest and best car brands in the world. Unfortunately after Akio Toyoda stepped down, who was a proponent of electric cars, their current CEO Koji Sato start pushing hydrogen. And its been a nosedive since then. This from the car company that pioneered the Prius while Musk was still working on Paypal. Edit: error above. Akio was NOT a big proponent of BEVs. EV skepticism at Toyota preceded Sato under Akio. Me bad. Sorry.
Alas Aikio Toyoda was notoriously negative about electric cars and, because of his influence nationally, an important factor in the demise of the Japanese auto industry. Despite all his hard work earlier in his career I would describe him as a laggard and a despot who used his influence to block innovation. A typical ‘kaizen’ person who, glued to his step by step approach, is overtaken by those willing to think out of the box and radically innovate.
@@johannesdalhuijsen1705 (wikipedia pull) At a press event held on 14 December 2021, Toyota unveiled multiple concept cars with battery electric drivetrains, a sign of faith in the future of the technology.[25] In a later interview, he said "“People are finally seeing reality. That said, I'm open to contrarian evidence
@@johannesdalhuijsen1705 I did some Gogglling. You seem to be correct on Akio. I'm been spreading fake news. I've been pawned by a few outlier quotes. The skepticism of EVs started before Sato under Akio as you suggest. I try to be careful when making claims about others but messed up this time. Thanks for exposing my ignorance.
I remember an analyis of Amazon from a famous investor and stock picker who opined that AMZ would never be a significant threat to traditional retail because of lack of salespeople. If you can't imagine a new way, you will never see the future even as it arrives.
Well after my experience with GWM and my Ora, I think there is some truth to a reliable dealership with good customer service being a determining factor in car purchases. I feel burnt by GWM ! I would do much more research than I did before buying a non traditional brand again. Serving is actually important.
"customer service" is more important to the ICE cars because these break down more. With EVs, a lot less to break down and maintain, it's mainly the batteries, and you just replace those.
Before, my wife drove a Toyota Vios and I drove a Toyota Corolla. 2 years ago my wife wanted to change her 8 years old Vios and not sure what to buy for her new car as she wants to drive something different from Toyota. Her friend recommended her to try BYD but at first she was hesitating as she not sure of Chinese car. So her friend went with her to the BYD showroom and the salesman asked to try. After her first try on EV car, BYD Dolphin she was so happy and came to discuss with me. Then I told her if she likes it, just go for it. Now after driving for 2 years she said she will be ever go back to the ICE vehicle again. And I am changing me too in 2 months for BYD Seal. Beautiful car and comfortable too after my test drive.
Let’s assume for a minute that Toyota is correct, and that having good dealerships is sufficient to keep customers from switching to superior Chinese EVs. My question is: HOW will Toyota ensure that their dealers don’t screw their customers? Yes, there are some good dealerships out there who do value long term relationships with customers. But that comes from the dealership itself, not the car maker. I’ve never seen this successfully enforced by mass market brands like Toyota (Lexus is a different matter). They don’t call them “stealerships” for nothing.
When my Mazda was spanking new in North America, the manual and the service advisor recommended a complete breakin inspection and its first oil & filter change. The dealership was very polite and friendly, serving coffee to the clients a friendly smile. Until my bill came, I almost choked. it was $489.00, 15 years ago. I paid the bill. Never go back again 15 years later.
I worked for a Japanese consumer electronics and business equipment giant in Oz for over 20 years. These are the same comments our Japanese leaders told us when we told them what our competitors were doing. That Japanese giant failed. It’s now a Chinese company.
Parts pipeline and repair techs are needed otherwise your car is throwaway if anything happens. You need dealers to cover both parts of the bathtub curve, from warranty repair to patching it up to keep it out of the junkyard. I can buy parts for legacy autos at a parts store, and get service manuals online.
Funny and to the point. I've noticed many shills and The Electric Viking is doing well for a simple TH-cam channel, very positive for the most part and definitely not a shill.
In Australia there are long distances to travel and for EV's this is still an issue and that is why Toyota feels comfortable that their products will continue to sell well. Now for city driving EV's will take over the market as it has done in most of the developed world.
@@grahammelbourne6575 That depends on the price for gasoline for with more EV's used in city driving the demand for gasoline goes down as will the price. It mostly has to do with supply and demand. I am not a big fan of hybrids for they are heavy with more moving parts where the KISS rule comes into play.
5:53 Thing is, other countries DID have the backing, they just wasted it or even sometimes refused it because they liked their already existing gravy train. US and EU gave so much money to their automakers to research and switch to electric tech and also for chips and solar and it still took them ages because they used the money for everything but.
Mine is $0 for the first 8 years. i am at the dealer for my first year service at the moment. enjoying the free wifi, coffee, cup noodles, biscuits, snacks. for the first time in 40 years of car ownership i feel like i am ripping them off instead. 😊
The China strategy was the Amazon strategy...enter fat market with low costs and wait for local completion to collapse..then make profits based on small margin and large sales.
Best chance for Chevy ford vw Toyota the only ones left after this is all over is for catl and byd to build battery plants in Mexico and put them in the old brands vehicles built in Mexico.
This isn't new Companies often make up exorbitant claims about their competition in order to gain investors. Problem is Toyota is 200 BN in debt and their EVs have failed. It's already proven that EVs are the future and China being the largest consumer market, you have already lost your battle. I remember i think it was in 2023, Toyota lost so much sale in China that even though their sales globally increased 36%, they still made a loss and lost market shares.
The last fortnight I've seen so many Chinese EVs. They come in every price range. You get so much for your money. And the competition domestically in China is so hard, so the cars are loaded with features in an attempt to stand out.
Unfortunately we are unable to purchase Chinese electric vehicles in Canada. The dominant electric vehicle here is Tesla and a few models from legacy manufactures.
I drive an ICE Skoda. They provide fantastic customer service. Will I buy a Skoda again? Probably not, the prices are now premium in the market when previously they undercut other brands to get a foot hold. Servicing is very expensive at the Skoda Service Centers. If they make an EV that is super cheap I might consider it. But I won't be getting one. City Dwellers really don't need a dealer network.
A relative of mine is genuinely impressed by the fact that our Tesla doesn’ need service for just about the life of the car apart from tyres or the odd minor problem. 25 thousand kms. Only tyre pressure minor issue. Water for windscreen wipers. His cars need regular service. Inconvenient and expensive I think. 🇦🇺
Yes it seems Chinese EVs will be here to stay. The traditional auto sellers may have to consider buying the skate board from China ie Catl sells the battery pack,wheels and ev motors as one package then, they can fit their branded auto to this. Don’t know if this is feasible but an idea to save jobs etc.
Car industry will go the way of the watch industry. Your overpriced Swiss watch isn't what it seems. Majority of parts will be from China, assembly in Germany and as long as it passes some proportion of value from Germany, it's gonna be a Made in Germany car. In the watch industry the most truthful phrase is if it says Made in China.
You said it yourself, very few chinese brands are profitable. If there is no profitability the brand will stop to exist as soon as the sponsorship ends.
There may be some M&A or collaboration from big brands with these Chinese EV companies. If the trend of these big brands start declining, it may be the best option to take up on the EV wave. They have a stable network of servicing and maintenance across Australia.
A Kodak dealer was talking to a Blackberry dealer and said "dont worry mate we just have to provide good old fashioned service at our dealerships and service centres, and the moral of that story was?????
I can't believe Toyota isn't a leader in EV tech. 10-15 years ago, they were the leaders in hybrid electric, but somehow they dropped the ball. Even worse, they're not evidently trying very hard to recapture market share in Asia and Latin America, where the Chinese are taking over. Sooner or later Toyota shareholders need to replace the leadership because otherwise they may be facing bankruptcy in a few years. Will they do the right thing?
Growth in china is over 50% of that total international growth. separate out china...and yes...rest of world is growing...but maybe 10% per annum...with a few outliers like Norway and Canada growing steadily.
Toyota and Honda' hybrid cars are good alternative to full EV. They're not as efficient but they can be refueled in minutes, no range anxiety and good in cold weather.
I love my Toyota Prius V but Toyota has nothing I am interested in purchasing next. Akio Toyoda is killing Japanese auto manufacturing, hard to believe that one incompliant person has the power to cause so much damage to an industry and a country.
They don’t call them legacy car makers for nothing. People will buy based on price before perceived customer service. I remember when we made TVs in Australia, Kreisler, Ferris, Pye, AWA, HMV. Those were good products will good customer service. Long gone now. History repeats, the writing is indelibly on the wall.
An electric motor is more efficient, cheaper to make, and incredibly long lasting, and cheaper to run, plus you don't need to physically ship fuel to ot it.
Evidently there is a serious issue about service and parts for Chinese autos growing in Mexico, where Chinese automakers have undercut the market. Public comments seem to say that these new Chinese companies are sell and run operators.
Great content as usual . Are brand new Chinese EV customers are brand new vehicle purchasers (or switched from a used car ) and are they switching from a western brand? This is a question we need to ask. BYD is also getting into heavy duty trucks . They’re in the process of recruiting top talents from the Western countries.Id love to hear more about this topic .
I live in Australia and never go for repairs or service to my car brands dealership as they rip you off massively. All the Chinese new brands have to do is make spare-parts, diagnostics and repair instructions available to all registered independent mechanics and repair centers.
They will never do that. There are no spare parts or manuals for chinese appliances, and the cars are the same. Basically they are a disposable product.
@@Briany-r5o the most likely thing to fail is a cell in the battery pack. Even someone like you could buy one of them😉 That said, with producing enough of them, it won't be long before spare parts are available at junkyards
@@veganpotterthevegan
New Updates: How Long Do Electric Car Batteries Last?
Written by
Liz Najman
Researcher
May 20, 2024
Shopping for a used Tesla, Ford, Hyundai or other used EV? You’re probably curious about the condition and health of the car’s high voltage battery. Battery life is a big question for used EV shoppers, and for good reason. Lithium ion batteries are an expensive black box - they can be up to 30-50% of an electric car’s value, but are very hard to evaluate. If your EV’s battery dies, you won’t be going anywhere until it’s repaired.
Recurrent’s team of battery scientists looked at battery replacements in our community of 20,000 cars and found:
Unsurprisingly, the highest rate of battery replacements come from the very first generation of EVs on the road. These cars are now 14 years old - not too shabby for a new technology.
Between 2022 and 2015, average battery sizes increased by 122%, meaning that newer EV batteries can stand to lose more capacity before they need replacement.
As battery management systems and thermal management systems improve, we should see even better battery life and fewer replacements, even after more than a decade.
* Most EV batteries are still in cars
There have been two major battery recalls in recent years, both related to similar battery pack flaws in the Chevrolet Bolt EV and EUV and the Hyundai Kona Electric. The remedy for both of these recalls was a sweeping battery replacement program covered by the manufacturers. Other than these two recalls, though, battery replacements in the Recurrent community remain rare.
Across all years and models, outside of big recalls, only 2.5% have been replaced. This increase from last year is entirely due to older cars. For cars older than 2015, replacement rates are 13%, but under 1% for cars from 2016 and newer.
* But, we can look back at early EV models, such as the Nissan LEAF and Tesla Model S, to get some sense of how they degrade over their lifetime. So far, it seems that EV batteries have much longer lifespans than anyone imagined, since very few of them have been replaced, even once the 8-year, 100,000 mile warranty period ends. Looking just at models from 2015 and earlier, only 13% of drivers have reported a battery replacement. Not bad considering how far technology has come in almost 14 years!
When you jump to newer EVs - even those from 2016 and later - battery replacement rates drop to under 1%. In new EVs, nearly all replacements are covered by a warranty, except in rare cases of an accident or damage to the pack.
Recurrent
@@veganpotterthevegan I guess that will depend on whether they go the Apple route of serial numbering components; it won't just be Chinese electric vehicles, they'll all do it to lock in the customer.
@@altbinhaxdoing that has worked well for John Deere tractors. Not!
Most Americans hate going to dealers for service. They overcharge and try to sell you work you don’t need.
That why we call them stealership
Don’t ever get work done at the stealership !
They don't overcharge at all!
When I was a kid in the 70's, electronics were what the Japanese were famous for building- TV, Radios, eventually VCR, walkman's- I would have never guessed that the country that invented the hybrid automobile would drag its feet so much on going all electric. It's very puzzling to me....
Japan is an occupied country. The USA runs Japan. The USA is an Imperialist Empire. Western Imperialism is wealth extraction (land, resources, labor, human mind etc..) from the World for the benefit of a Racist Elite minority. Imperialism keeps and forces countries to stay under-developed and dependent. Japan has been kept on a leash since the Plaza Accords in 1986. China is Sovereign. No foreign occupying army. Chinese Government OWNS it's money creation and money is to serve society AND NOT the 1%.
It's a case of company getting so big, it either takes a long time to make a major decision or no one dares to make major decision. It's the : As a ceo, I am well paid. why rocked the boat mentality.
I was a kid in the 80s and it was the same with the Japanese. However after the crash of the 90s Japan flatlined in growth and innovation, it's just not the same as it was...
What Toyota and Japan can't do is bribe and liaise with Corporates and Media at Davos where pro EV subsidies, targets eg Net Zero are set.
What Australians need to do is set safety standards. Eg when your battery pack us deliberately lit, does it go into Thermal Runaway? Is the resultant fire(s) dramatic enough to total hundreds of other cars and bring down buildings? Yes to both? Unsafe! Can't import, build and sell.
they get kick back from the oil cartels to make any kind of petrol dependent cars and trucks
TOYOTA IS BULLSHITING. They are panicking. Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi is in trouble. I can see it happening in Indonesia. They are playing the "oh the resale value is higher than the China cars" .. it's not working anymore. The buyers are getting smarter. China cars are up there in premium quality
What makes China cars better? I've never seen any long-term reliability data on them, what's being hidden from the public?
@crosslink1493 let's wait for the reliability report after a few more years. After all, the Chinese cars are relatively new to the market. At the same time, their build quality is quite good. Likewise, there are recalls of Toyota too. Does it mean the high reliability continues until today?
@@crosslink1493 I don't think anyone is saying Chinese Cars are built Better than Toyota or Tesla. Their Selling Point is They are CHEAPER, A LOT CHEAPER.
There are a lot of consumers who are looking for something just Good Enough at an affordable Price.
Hyundai/Kia were Junks when they were first introduced outside of South Korea, look at where they are now.
I have driven chery omoda in Indonesia for almost 2 years and close to 20.000 kms. No issue so far and still drives like a dream. It looks much better than any japanese car in the same price range. No more japanese or european cars for me, they will be a thing in the past. Their arrogance in ripping customers off by selling subpar car, claiming it will sell better after you buy it makes me laugh.
@@crosslink1493 There's very little public data, because it's proprietary corporate data. For example, Tesla has service data for the exact same cars built in Shanghai, Berlin and Fremont. Tesla internal metrics show Chinese build is clearly superior to Fremont, so they sent Chinese techs to California to try and train the Fremont workers. I suspect it's mainly that Chinese techs have more, better hands-on experience and better teamwork with cross-training in self-organizing, self-improving teams.
Who has a good dealership experience? Buying a car is like getting into a street fight, and getting your car serviced is like getting mugged. Dealer Experience!???
Spot on!
I would rather have access to a good dealer network, most medium size rural towns will have an agent for most popular brands. Where as companies like BYD use Mycar(ex Kmart tyre and auto) which once you get out of the major cities is non existent!
Yes, some dealerships are stealerships. But I have to admit that I have also had positive experiences at some dealerships.
I've had great dealer experiences at Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, and a used dealer that sold Chrysler. In cases, I used a no-haggle car buying service, so there was really nothing to dicker about. I was also trading in cars that were barely drivable so I was happy to get anything for them. It all worked out fine.
@@Paul-b2s4j ,
I just own a EV ,
3 months now ,
They were surprise to see me asking for service .
3 months is 9 months too early for brake check .
-
I said , i need help , to peel off the plastic sheet protecting the side mirror .
It's nice to have a convenient dealer network to take my car in for maintenance and repairs. It's even nicer to not need to take my car in for maintenance or repairs because its electric
It will still need maintenance and repairs
Repairs and massive maintenance works are more costly for ice cars in long terms but also more time consuming.
EV should also have regular maintenance and checking for safety, but the wear and tear is much much less. To begin with, there is no engine gasket leak issue. My son's branded ice car is 10 years old, i can smell unburnt petrol when standing at a distance from it (not to mention that the burnt petrol exhaust gases are toxic.)
I have had Toyotas and Hondas exclusively for the last 35 years in the U.S. and I HATE taking the vehicles to the dealers as they will RIP YOU OFF on repairs. It's different if you have a warranty -- as they will need to fix it. Otherwise, I avoid them. Total scam as they try to sell you high-priced repairs you don't need.
@@doncody8465 I'm 58 and have been driving since I was 17, so 41 years. Im on my 28th car and I took a single car to a dealer on 1 occasion. The experience was so poor and expensive that the rest were all to a mechanic. Dealer networks are optional for maintenance and repairs. For 30 of my 41 years I had a single mechanic who i developed a fantastic relationship with. You will not get that at a dealer network.
EV's are disposable no resale value
Notice this: All the Chinese manufacturers sell DIRECT to consumers hence bypassing the dealer channel which takes up a chunk of the profit margin. That's cost savings for consumers and also improves profitability of the manufacturers.
That's great. But when it comes to Service, it could be quite painful to deal with. Car isn't like a Laptop or Phone where you can mail it in for repair.
I am not sure how many of them are willing to pay for Mobil Technicians like Rivian and Tesla during the early days.
@@steak5599why not have authorized repair shops instead of dealerships
@ If you worked in the Auto Repair Industry, you would know no sane Shop Owner would want to deal with that.
Car repair is nothing close to repairing a Phone, Computer, or Appliance.
If any Manufacturer wants a repair Center, they will NEED to open their own Repair Center and train their own mechanics. That is EXPENSIVE.
Chinese OEMs have showrooms in the local mall with order takers. Super efficient.
@richardnwilson There is a chance that independent repair shops can thrive if they can secure a way to acquire parts.
The best part of EVs is that there is no requirement for a dealer network. Tesla has delivery centers - no need for "dealers". Yes, those centers do have some service functions but if its anything like our 5 year old Tesla Model 3, we've never needed any service. We bought a Cybertruck 5 months ago, took delivery at a delivery/service center and we haven't needed to return.
Sure you need a dealer network long-term!
Toyota, if they were around in 1900, would have said “All we need is a network of stables doing good service re-shoeing horses, and greasing wheel axles….the horse and buggy is all the customer needs.”
Yeah right like there isn't something innovative and disruptive that will end their business. 😅
All I remembered TOYOTA was a very bad brand during the pre 1960s to the late 1970s.
It was a laughing stock at all street lights wannabe drag racing.
Watched a TH-cam video recently where American talking heads discussed the reasons for Nissan's downfall, and I was amazed that they seemed totally focused on it being Nissan's missteps, I kept thinking, look over your shoulders guys, the Chinese are coming for everybody. I should add, I'm a proud owner of a new BYD Shark 6 😁
Hi Sam,
Funny story I went to a Toyota dealer in Melbourne to test the bz4x and the salesman would not let us drive it as he started telling us stories of how he gets headaches from being in EVs. I told him that my 2019 Tesla has been nothing but wonderful for 5 years and he wouldnt hear it telling me another story of how much money his friend lost on his Tesla. I asked him if he had a tin foil hat and he ignored that I think with salespeople like that Toyota is doomed
Funny story 2. My wife and I went to a Toyota dealership looking to buy only an EV. Yes they had one down the front but “it’s battery is flat we can’t even open the door so you can look inside and it’s been there for 5 months”
That despite the fact that there was an EV charge point on site 20 metres away.
The last time we were in a dealership we were leasing a car for my parents. It got so bad with the salesman my wife stood up and took my parents to the car, without saying a word. She was so angry and insulted by the lowball offer for their trade in. Next thing you know, the manager ran out to our car, opened the door and begged my wife to come back. She screamed at him and slammed the door closed. Well, I stayed and ended up getting the best deal ever - thanks to my wife being tough! LOL
You're thinking that you got a good deal .
It's because they made you think you got a good deal .
I once saw a shrewd buss man,
He said its a good deal .
I seek him out next day ,
Remember yesterday that you said the buyer got a good deal ,
I just pull out his flyer with the same item and point it to him ,
That buyer paid more than you advertised .
-
He smiled , grinning from ears to ears ,
Then say , it was a good deal ,
A good deal for me .
-
And added, , i'm in thus family business ,
40 yrs , and we never lose money .
You got YOUR best deal ever, but I'm sure the dealer still had a bunch of money in their pocket. If I were disrespected, I would find another dealer. Or sell my old car privately.
With all the competition in China, who would think they ignore customer service? Why assume that they don't know what they are doing? Instead, better to believe they do and add to that better pricing, quality cars, and continual improvement. I would take them seriously as my competition. This reminds me of what happened to American car companies when the Japanese started selling cars in the US. They laughed, and in the end, the Toyota and the rest laughed all the way to the bank.
The book The Reckoning by David Halberstam explains the history. It's the opaque financial set-up of the Chinese brands that is worrisome. Can it be assumed, right now, that they are not profitable ?
Toyota is $190B USD in debt (worse than VW & Nissan's) and facing multiple catastrophic engine recalls, devastating mechnical defects (transmissions, suspensions, etc.) and inferior quality/engineering issues. It's nothing but a downward spiral from here for the soon-to-be global has-been.
You forgot they have been cheating on safety test since the 1980’s.
If you want a perfect cars, there would not be one coming out from the R & D or testing facilities.
go read more dude, it seems u knew nothing about Toyota, They are bigger than what u think
@yangerek78 Braaap! Wrong.
@@Richard-s1d5q well thats fact dude go read
I'm sure Toyota must be right. Just like all those Brick and Mortar stores were able to give better service and not go out of business when Amazon came along.
Oh....wait....
Exactly. I have not bought a new car since 1986 because I refuse to go to a dealership and experience the abuse I know I'll experience. Been buying used from private sellers since just to avoid the pain and expense of going to a dealer.
If I buy a car in retirement, I'll look forward to buying online from Tesla and avoiding the greedy, sleazy, dealers.
What I really hope happens if my old Honda dies is that robotaxis will be established and I'll avoid car ownership all together.
ICE cars will go the same directions as Kodak... EV is at the same stage as mobile phones then.
Remember the Blackberry phone that everyone back in the days swore by and criticized Apple for coming out with a phone with no buttons? They said nobody would buy an Iphone and the Blackberry had nothing to worry about! Fast forward to today and the Iphone is the number one selling phone while Blackberry exited the phone business and now is a software company focusing on cybersecurity. It's going to be interesting to see what Toyota ends up pivoting to when BYD eclipses them globally in sales.
@ Hydrogen powered Tinker Toys??
It appears that Chinese automakers will dominate Australia and New Zealand with EVs for city driving and plug in hybrids for rural and long distance drivers. I bet the BYD Shark passes both the Hilux and the Ranger in sales.
In how many minutes?
Toyota is having a "Blackberry moment" or a "Kodak moment", or both. In Malaysia, BYD partner with a well established company for showrooms and auto shop. No point in investing heavily in infrastructure when your touchpoint with clients is usually once a year. "Good old fashion customer service" for me starts precisely in not having to go to the shop!
Toyota group is doing fine and will still be the biggest carcompany in 10 years!Number two will be the Volkswagen group and number 3 BYD!
I dunno about the rest of the world, but as a Canadian I can say, screw dealer networks. Firm online price with no junk fees
Then add in the price they charge for maintenance. German companies charge money to turn off warning lights in their cars.
I like this online pricing .
Total pricing integrity .
In my country we have a saying....
Most if not all sales people are liars. But the worst are car sales people. When they are selling this brand, they can claim how good the cars are. But when they resigned and work for another brand, they will turn around and say the (new) brand is the best. And the best part? Some can be found driving another brand!!
I wonder if this was how horse and buggy makers reacted to the quickly improving and considerably more powerful, flexible, and cheaper to maintain "horseless carriages" of their time.
They switched and started building car bodies.
@@grd4612the smart ones did!
@420031 GM cars were produced by Fisher body works, Fisher was originally a carriage maker and their logo was on the sill plates of every steel bodied USA domestic produced GM car for decades.
Too bad GM didn't learn from it's own history.
In 1865, in the UK a law was passed to reduce steam engine speed limits and combat engine ‘nuisance’ by requiring a person to walk sixty yards in advance, carrying a red flag to warn of the engine’s approach. The advance lookout was also to signal the engine to stop whenever alarm to horses on the road looked likely.
This ensured the engine could not travel faster than a human walking and thus would be slower than the established horse and carriage. It was a protectionist move by the established horse drawn transport industry but dressed up as a public safety measure.
My God, it is my mission in life to avoid the dealer at all costs. Dealer footprint. LOL
I wouldn’t underestimate the Chinese.
China has already won in a lot of key areas and is catching up very fast in the few remaining areas. Japan has already lost in this.
Getting good service is important in IC engine cars, because engines require regular maintenance. In contrast, electric cars do not require any maintenance and the software can be updated automatically. So, customer care is a non issue in EVs.
I've got a Toyota with 150,000 miles on it. Regular maintenance services I can do myself - oil changes, filters, spark plugs at 60,000 miles. The only services I had done by a mechanic was the serpentine belt and one brake job. Just routine maintenance and it still works. Waiting to hear or see reliability data for a Chinese EV.
Reported 6 Nov 24: More than 300,000 angry Toyota and Ford owners who bought defective cars over the last 10 years will face an even longer wait for compensation after a High Court of Australia ruling in Canberra today.
The cars affected included Toyota Hiluxes, Prados and Fortunas with diesel engines, and Ford Focus, Fiesta and Ecosport models with a dry dual clutch transmission problem.
Yes such great service from Toyota (and Ford). And 300k customers is a lot in Australia.
Toyota has almost 200 billion in debt. Even a minor downturn in sales could be a disaster.
VW too
Which is already an issue for them.
Evergrande has $500 billion in debt. And that’s with massive Chinese government support.
Oversupply of property, now they’re just doing oversupply of cars. Not very smart are they?
Toyota is an automobile manufacturer and distributor, but it is also a finance company. It provides loans to buyers through its subsidiary, Toyota Finance. It borrows this money from banks.
Do you think banks would go bankrupt due to the huge amount of money they owe to depositors?
Hi Sam. BYD opened their new dealership here last month. Yesterday, driving through the city, I saw four different BYD cars. MG, Omoda, Jaecoo, and others are opening dealerships. Legacy ICE brands are going to take a big hit, and it's going to hit fast and hard.
It's just normal to lose some market share with more compatoters!Nothing to see here!Chinese will mostly buying Chinese car brands for nationalistic reasons!They hate the Japanese so much!The word is big and the Toyota group has still the advantage of scale,and smaller Japanese car producers will work together to lower costs!
I was expecting them to say hydrogen was going to save them!
Winning by providing service?? Seriously? I have my ICE car serviced by an independent because the dealer I was using was lying to me to sell unnecessary services and parts. The final straw: a full set of tyres - which the local Bridgestone store confirmed was totally unnecessary.
He's got to be dreamin'!!
What everyone wants is to get a car that is beneficial to them both economically and environmentally.
Toyota group is doing amazing!Here in Indonesia there is a 24/7 openair Japanese car brand party on the street every day!75% brands from Toyota and 23% other Japanese brands!It's heaven!
But the price of Honda-CRV is almost 2x the price of Chery Tiggo 8 here in Indonesia. Do the math.😅
I’ve owned many Toyota’s over the years and the reason was I never ever went back to the dealer after a purchase, the cars never broke down. So the dealer network is not going to save them.
It sounds like 1976 during the oil crisis when the big three North American makers said "we can't possibly get better gas mileage from our cars." That average was around 16 mpg or 15.7 l/100km. Also reminds me of younger co-worker telling me in 1985 "why did you buy a CD player, they will never take off?"
Kodak was once even bigger and more famous than Toyota.
Oh jeez, not this Kodak BS again. It must be a Chinese A.I. bot posting since it comes up so much. Needs a refresh with another manipulated dataset.
@@crosslink1493 Why BS? I think the general "Kodak" point is the digital photography revolution was ignored by Kodak who couldn't see how their film cash cow could ever end. This resulted in Kodak quickly becoming totally irrelevant in the marketplace. So it's a like for like comparison with legacy auto makers not considering the EV revolution, and not pivoting fast enough. Couple that with the untold billions China sunk into auto manufacturing - including giga-casting, battery technology research, and end to end supply chain development, and even the average joe can easily see the huge potential for catastrophe for legacy auto companies.
Makes perfect sense, no bots required.
@@crosslink1493 Funny enough, Kodak didn’t disappear because there was no demand for film at all. It met its end because it couldn’t achieve an acceptable profit due to its declining market share.
Declining market share + debt = the end.
See how simple it is? Similarly, current legacy automakers are struggling with profitability-they haven’t had acceptable profits in years. And let’s face it, nobody is going to take out a 30-year mortgage for an ICE car to restore their profits.
Well if it is an AI bot reply then I’m really impressed as it seems to its stuff. Kodak and BlackBerry are always great examples for companies to NOT want to repeat. So hard not to though.
Many companies go bankrupt every year, and no company wants to share their fate. Yet, year after year, other companies make the same mistakes-again and again.
This is especially true when they deny reality, dismissing it as a "Chinese AI bot." In such cases, the crash tends to come even sooner.
There is an element of Truth to what Toyota is saying in my case. I have had my Honda since 2008 and am definitely in the market for a new car with all the modern safety stuff. The only car in my price range that ticks all the mandatory requirements and optional ones for me is the BYD Selion 6 plugin Hybrid. However, although I am the second biggest city in Victoria, there is no local dealership and the nearest service center is 50km away and it would be serviced by a 3rd party company that does not really give a hoot about the reputation of BYD. This has put me off as I like to keep my cars longer term. If there was a local Dealer and that dealer was the service centre I would most likely have have bought it fer sure. For now I am waiting for a few more new offerings from established dealers before I make my purchase.
I’m set to buy my first EV car, Sealion 7 soon and now I am deep into your videos.
Similar to robotics and AI, the automotive industry is super interesting due to all the fast paced changes taking place.
Thanks for your commentary, especially on the Australian market. Keep it up!
A good dealer network to fix things that don't need fixing in an EV. Sometimes they don't need fixing in an ICE vehicle. Selling vehicles that pollute while at the same time are about 1/4-1/3 as efficient. Good luck with that.
Everybody tried to make as much money as possible,nothing to see here!If you are clueless you will get ripped of everywhere in every sector of the economy,so knowledge is the key to not getting ripped of!
Love Toyota as a brand. For decades they have produced excellent quality cars for reasonable prices. This is what made them one of the biggest and best car brands in the world. Unfortunately after Akio Toyoda stepped down, who was a proponent of electric cars, their current CEO Koji Sato start pushing hydrogen. And its been a nosedive since then. This from the car company that pioneered the Prius while Musk was still working on Paypal.
Edit: error above. Akio was NOT a big proponent of BEVs. EV skepticism at Toyota preceded Sato under Akio. Me bad. Sorry.
Alas Aikio Toyoda was notoriously negative about electric cars and, because of his influence nationally, an important factor in the demise of the Japanese auto industry. Despite all his hard work earlier in his career I would describe him as a laggard and a despot who used his influence to block innovation. A typical ‘kaizen’ person who, glued to his step by step approach, is overtaken by those willing to think out of the box and radically innovate.
@@johannesdalhuijsen1705
(wikipedia pull)
At a press event held on 14 December 2021, Toyota unveiled multiple concept cars with battery electric drivetrains, a sign of faith in the future of the technology.[25] In a later interview, he said "“People are finally seeing reality.
That said, I'm open to contrarian evidence
@@johannesdalhuijsen1705
I did some Gogglling. You seem to be correct on Akio. I'm been spreading fake news. I've been pawned by a few outlier quotes. The skepticism of EVs started before Sato under Akio as you suggest. I try to be careful when making claims about others but messed up this time. Thanks for exposing my ignorance.
Hubris leads to downfall of giants.
In Portugal the dealership of Toyota is the same has... BYD.
Ice is melting
I remember an analyis of Amazon from a famous investor and stock picker who opined that AMZ would never be a significant threat to traditional retail because of lack of salespeople. If you can't imagine a new way, you will never see the future even as it arrives.
Good customer service is needed more when the car has an engine that needs lots of servicing. The service better be good.
Going to a car dealer is like going to a casino. You feel like a king with money to spend but feel like a peasant after the contract is signed.😮
A customer centric approach is never a bad idea
Well after my experience with GWM and my Ora, I think there is some truth to a reliable dealership with good customer service being a determining factor in car purchases. I feel burnt by GWM ! I would do much more research than I did before buying a non traditional brand again. Serving is actually important.
What was the issue with GWM?
Toyota and Lexus used to be good but they are pretty bad now
After having bought over 30 Toyotas in my lifetime
I am done with them
"customer service" is more important to the ICE cars because these break down more. With EVs, a lot less to break down and maintain, it's mainly the batteries, and you just replace those.
Before, my wife drove a Toyota Vios and I drove a Toyota Corolla. 2 years ago my wife wanted to change her 8 years old Vios and not sure what to buy for her new car as she wants to drive something different from Toyota. Her friend recommended her to try BYD but at first she was hesitating as she not sure of Chinese car.
So her friend went with her to the BYD showroom and the salesman asked to try. After her first try on EV car, BYD Dolphin she was so happy and came to discuss with me. Then I told her if she likes it, just go for it. Now after driving for 2 years she said she will be ever go back to the ICE vehicle again. And I am changing me too in 2 months for BYD Seal. Beautiful car and comfortable too after my test drive.
Let’s assume for a minute that Toyota is correct, and that having good dealerships is sufficient to keep customers from switching to superior Chinese EVs.
My question is: HOW will Toyota ensure that their dealers don’t screw their customers?
Yes, there are some good dealerships out there who do value long term relationships with customers. But that comes from the dealership itself, not the car maker. I’ve never seen this successfully enforced by mass market brands like Toyota (Lexus is a different matter).
They don’t call them “stealerships” for nothing.
When my Mazda was spanking new in North America, the manual and the service advisor recommended a complete breakin inspection and its first oil & filter change.
The dealership was very polite and friendly, serving coffee to the clients a friendly smile.
Until my bill came, I almost choked.
it was $489.00, 15 years ago.
I paid the bill.
Never go back again 15 years later.
You better drive a bicycle!
I worked for a Japanese consumer electronics and business equipment giant in Oz for over 20 years. These are the same comments our Japanese leaders told us when we told them what our competitors were doing. That Japanese giant failed. It’s now a Chinese company.
Parts pipeline and repair techs are needed otherwise your car is throwaway if anything happens. You need dealers to cover both parts of the bathtub curve, from warranty repair to patching it up to keep it out of the junkyard. I can buy parts for legacy autos at a parts store, and get service manuals online.
That's what they said about the Titanic.....unsinkable until it sunk. The Japanese version was the Yamato.
Hey Sam, What is the Xpeng dealer network like in Australia? I have never heard you talk about service after the sale with Chinese BEV's in Australia.
I always agree...! It's a shame I bought a Toyota Gas car last year... I wanted a BYD but they were a bit too pricey...
Funny and to the point. I've noticed many shills and The Electric Viking is doing well for a simple TH-cam channel, very positive for the most part and definitely not a shill.
He definitely a shill 😂😂😂😂😂😂all his video is Chinese EV good good good they are the best they will dominate
In Australia there are long distances to travel and for EV's this is still an issue and that is why Toyota feels comfortable that their products will continue to sell well. Now for city driving EV's will take over the market as it has done in most of the developed world.
It will probably go the same way as China. People needing to travel distances will buy hybrids.
@@grahammelbourne6575 That depends on the price for gasoline for with more EV's used in city driving the demand for gasoline goes down as will the price. It mostly has to do with supply and demand.
I am not a big fan of hybrids for they are heavy with more moving parts where the KISS rule comes into play.
BYD is about to release an EV equipped with the highest power of a single motor: 580 kw =777.793 HP rear wheel drive, and the car sells for $12,000!
Unnecessary and dangerous in the wrong hands
BYD is not putting a 780 hp motor in a $12k USD car. 80 hp, sure. $120k USD, sure.
@@manimalworks7424 I need me one of ‘dem !
You know you're in trouble when your spokespeople sound more like politicians and lobbyists than private company leaders.
I have never had a good dealership experience with an ICE car. I took my BYD Seal to MyCar yesterday, and they were awesome.
Free markets and competition are the best thing that has ever happened in the world
5:53 Thing is, other countries DID have the backing, they just wasted it or even sometimes refused it because they liked their already existing gravy train. US and EU gave so much money to their automakers to research and switch to electric tech and also for chips and solar and it still took them ages because they used the money for everything but.
I forgot to add, my annual BYD Seal service cost $165.
Mine is $0 for the first 8 years. i am at the dealer for my first year service at the moment. enjoying the free wifi, coffee, cup noodles, biscuits, snacks. for the first time in 40 years of car ownership i feel like i am ripping them off instead. 😊
The China strategy was the Amazon strategy...enter fat market with low costs and wait for local completion to collapse..then make profits based on small margin and large sales.
Best chance for Chevy ford vw Toyota the only ones left after this is all over is for catl and byd to build battery plants in Mexico and put them in the old brands vehicles built in Mexico.
Toyota = FAIL
💀
Toyota big winner! Especially their Daihatsu brand is doing amazing and they are great value for money!
The crack must be really good in Japan. Messes up 'yer head though!
Thanks!
This isn't new
Companies often make up exorbitant claims about their competition in order to gain investors. Problem is Toyota is 200 BN in debt and their EVs have failed. It's already proven that EVs are the future and China being the largest consumer market, you have already lost your battle. I remember i think it was in 2023, Toyota lost so much sale in China that even though their sales globally increased 36%, they still made a loss and lost market shares.
When is that killer Toyota EV with a solid state battery coming, that was promised in 2015?! :D
Hydrogen first 😂
@@larryc1616 I looked it up Toyota has been talking about Solid state batteries since 2010....
How many hydrogen stations do we have in the US now?
@@scoty_does Fewer H2 stations today than when the Mirai was released.
@@ZweiZwolf :|
Wow. Kharmic retribution for the past 30 years of hubris and lying to the public is finally coming back to haunt Toyota...
The last fortnight I've seen so many Chinese EVs. They come in every price range. You get so much for your money. And the competition domestically in China is so hard, so the cars are loaded with features in an attempt to stand out.
Unfortunately we are unable to purchase Chinese electric vehicles in Canada. The dominant electric vehicle here is Tesla and a few models from legacy manufactures.
I drive an ICE Skoda. They provide fantastic customer service. Will I buy a Skoda again? Probably not, the prices are now premium in the market when previously they undercut other brands to get a foot hold. Servicing is very expensive at the Skoda Service Centers. If they make an EV that is super cheap I might consider it. But I won't be getting one. City Dwellers really don't need a dealer network.
High-quality service should've been the standard always anyway 😂😂😂 so basically they are admitting that it wasn't the case shameful.
A relative of mine is genuinely impressed by the fact that our Tesla doesn’ need service for just about the life of the car apart from tyres or the odd minor problem. 25 thousand kms. Only tyre pressure minor issue. Water for windscreen wipers. His cars need regular service. Inconvenient and expensive I think. 🇦🇺
Toyota are 100% correct, a local dealership is a must when something happens to your car
Sounds like they already gave up on markets that lets Chinese EVs compete on level field. They will just focus on surviving in America and EU.
Heavily subsided Chinese EV companies is fair playing field?
You take Russian steroids in your butt for a fair playing field too?
Yes it seems Chinese EVs will be here to stay. The traditional auto sellers may have to consider buying the skate board from China ie Catl sells the battery pack,wheels and ev motors as one package then, they can fit their branded auto to this. Don’t know if this is feasible but an idea to save jobs etc.
Putting a legacy branded "top hat" on a CATL chassis, battery pack & motor might work. It is better than rebadging a car.
Car industry will go the way of the watch industry. Your overpriced Swiss watch isn't what it seems. Majority of parts will be from China, assembly in Germany and as long as it passes some proportion of value from Germany, it's gonna be a Made in Germany car. In the watch industry the most truthful phrase is if it says Made in China.
You said it yourself, very few chinese brands are profitable. If there is no profitability the brand will stop to exist as soon as the sponsorship ends.
There may be some M&A or collaboration from big brands with these Chinese EV companies. If the trend of these big brands start declining, it may be the best option to take up on the EV wave. They have a stable network of servicing and maintenance across Australia.
wanna buy a Kodak camera? as per Tony Seba ... all good news for the world, and our climate crisis
A Kodak dealer was talking to a Blackberry dealer and said "dont worry mate we just have to provide good old fashioned service at our dealerships and service centres, and the moral of that story was?????
Kodak is still here now.
I can't believe Toyota isn't a leader in EV tech. 10-15 years ago, they were the leaders in hybrid electric, but somehow they dropped the ball. Even worse, they're not evidently trying very hard to recapture market share in Asia and Latin America, where the Chinese are taking over. Sooner or later Toyota shareholders need to replace the leadership because otherwise they may be facing bankruptcy in a few years. Will they do the right thing?
Los Angeles is still on fire thanks Toyota.
How did Toyota cause that? China shill posting crap.
Growth in china is over 50% of that total international growth. separate out china...and yes...rest of world is growing...but maybe 10% per annum...with a few outliers like Norway and Canada growing steadily.
I want cheap car
Mazda is CLEARLY not struggling
Toyota and Honda' hybrid cars are good alternative to full EV. They're not as efficient but they can be refueled in minutes, no range anxiety and good in cold weather.
I love my Toyota Prius V but Toyota has nothing I am interested in purchasing next. Akio Toyoda is killing Japanese auto manufacturing, hard to believe that one incompliant person has the power to cause so much damage to an industry and a country.
Yes it really is all down to one man.
Forget the dealer Networks. Buy online and have authorized repair shops
Successful products.can be roadblocks of company's future success. Few are like Steve Jobs, who gave the customers iPhone and defeated his own iPod. 😅
Totally agree
Life in the USA, is now getting to the point where only reason for staying, is to rip money off other people, and then leave for a lower cost country.
😂😂😂sure
I will never walk into a dealership ever again!
They don’t call them legacy car makers for nothing. People will buy based on price before perceived customer service. I remember when we made TVs in Australia, Kreisler, Ferris, Pye, AWA, HMV. Those were good products will good customer service. Long gone now. History repeats, the writing is indelibly on the wall.
Most countries don't have the charging infrastructure in place.
An electric motor is more efficient, cheaper to make, and incredibly long lasting, and cheaper to run, plus you don't need to physically ship fuel to ot it.
Evidently there is a serious issue about service and parts for Chinese autos growing in Mexico, where Chinese automakers have undercut the market. Public comments seem to say that these new Chinese companies are sell and run operators.
Check real news. Not from CNN BBC et al.
look at real facts. Mexican EV market grew 97% in 2023 and 71% in 2024. Sure sounds like the Chinese are selling and running 😂
Great content as usual . Are brand new Chinese EV customers are brand new vehicle purchasers (or switched from a used car ) and are they switching from a western brand? This is a question we need to ask.
BYD is also getting into heavy duty trucks . They’re in the process of recruiting top talents from the Western countries.Id love to hear more about this topic .
Many Chinese NEV buyers are replacing old cars, while some are upgrading from scooters.
All good things come to an end... Toyota had its day...