Had an online discussion with someone who must have been in NYC or LA while I'm from a large city in the center of the U.S. I have never even SEEN a charging station, this guy said they're everywhere. I'm in an apartment with unassigned outdoor parking, he said every apartment has its own charger. He's one of those people that think, "The whole world is exactly like what I experience." Different worlds dude, different worlds.
He stated he is in the UK. Also, look at where the steering wheel is located. Steering wheels in US driven vehicles are on the left side, not the right. Charging stations in Europe are significantly more prevalent than the US.
@@vickimeyers2672 he was discussing a conversation he was having with another person, so his comments were valid. A problem with many EV owners and proponents of them is outlined in the video, and many people don't look further than today, as was said what happens after the honeymoon period?, the debate needs to happen now or we lose mass personal transport.
I live in NYC and have never seen an EV charger. Everyone I know who has an EV lives in the suburbs and own at least two cars. The 2nd car is always a gas car and is usually a Range Rover or other huge SUV.
nowhere to charge in apts. might be one or two outlets for one or two cars. otherwise would have to run wires from inside apt. out the door and / or window to the car. no way, forget that. and if there were a bunch of EVs charging in an apt., it would overload the system, trip the breakers, n power would go out.
Hi Pete, very informative video. My son recently purchased an EV as he lives on a small development with a wall charger. He discovered that the 7kw charger was only configured to 3.5kw. He challenged the developer who informed he that the Power supplier had requested this because if all the properties used an EV that the sub station would not be able to cope. We have a very long way to go before we are ready for EV’s.
@@neilkurzman4907 with a 3.5kW charging possibility you can charge 35kWh in 10 hours. This will allow you to drive 100 miles per day - without visiting public chargers. That’s a pretty decent amount for a daily commuter. If you have longer distances, you might have to pop into a public DC charger for 10 or 15 minutes - and you should be fine, too.
My brother has an EV and had a home charger properly installed in his garage (all done officially). It caught fire. Thankfully he was home and put it out but it had melted a load of wires throughout the house. Big expensive job to fix it.
@@jfro5867 If there are melted wires in the electric box, and then it wasn’t installed properly. The wire wasn’t the proper gauge for the circuit breaker. Or the circuit breaker was defective.
A point to consider for those of us living in older streets of terraced housing is that, even if we could have a charge point of our own, we don't have any more right than anyone else to park outside our own home - unless it's a private road, or we have resident parking spaces (which are usually quite expensive). This country is still a long way off being prepared for "enforcement by stealth" EV ownership - unless that's part of the agenda whereby motoring will soon revert to being a privilege for the wealthy.
I think that is what some people want. The elite get to drive about and call themselves green, all the while the green movement become pleased that less people are driving. And the poor, well they can just sit at home or use overpriced, poor quality public transport. I have become convinced this entire movement is one of snobbery and elitism. It will determine votes in the future. It is why I suspect the 2030 ban on new IC engine cars is going to fall apart.
Also if you live on an older street then you could potentially damage the road in a couple years. On that note these lead foot drivers in Tesla's are ripping up tarmac as the roads can't cope with the torque
@@nickdaybyday Not just older streets, councils now spend as little as possible on repairs and use the cheapest materials so the repairs don't last very long. This will only get worse as more and more EVs are on the road.
In the Netherlands, you can go to the local government and apply to have a charger installed in the street where you live, close to your home. There are already over 140.000 public chargers and that number doubles every 2 years.
Hi Pete--a very important aspect of EVs politicians totally ignore is the natural resources needed for a battery. There are only about 6 countries that have enough deposits of Lithium (and other resources) to keep the batteries running….and the UK and the US are NOT two of them. At least with lead acid batteries the metals, sulfuric acid, and distilled water are readily available.
@erin s. in addition to the lithium, cobalt etc the bulk of these batteries is the graphite anode. Much of the best "anode grade" graphite comes from oil residue. As with the other ingredients, there just isn't enough graphite - less so if it's burned first!
@@valleyofiron125 How common an element doesn't say anything about how easy it is to utilise. There has to be an energy profit to recovering the lithium because energy is the name of the game. Take the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen. It is devilishly hard to utilise as a fuel and a net energy negative. At best it is a battery of energy. You can easily harvest H from natural gas or other fossil fuel but if the object is to cut fossil fuel use then that is awkward. Distilling water is the other way of sourcing H but a horrific energy hog. That is the most abundant element in the universe but that doesn't describe its utility, or lack of.
One thing that still bothers me about EV's is the assumption that life is predictable. I drive it, I take it home and charge it and as you said the next morning I'm ready to go. Life isn't always that predictable. You get back home, you've used most of your range and a family emergency etc. happens and suddenly you have no vehicle you can use immediately. The time to charge is still a huge drawback. They definitely have a place in the future but they can't be the total solution. Where I live in Canada we can get feet of snow in a short time and the winter temperatures could kill you if you had no power in the car and became stranded. I guess my point is don't treat them as a complete solution. They simply aren't.
Totally agree with you mr Freeky . What they should be doing is giving an incentive to people who own 2 cars to Change 1 of them for electric so you have a choice of transport , short journeys to work , d.i.y. store , shopping , school run etc , use the EV then on those occasions when a long run is needed use petrol car without the worry of charging on route .
I live in southern Ontario and the 400 series highways can be like parking lots even without an accident and being stranded. And as you say even worse if it's in very cold winter temps.
And if per say everyone on your block ended up getting one. Are the main transformers going to be strong enough to supply them all, if not no doubt there will be a huge increase in your monthly electric bill. Even if you don't have an EV vehicle.
The funny/ ironic thing about subsidies (tariffs) for "early adopters" is that they're just discounts for the wealthy. As prices become affordable for the middle class, the subsidies evaporate--and yet again, we collectively subsidize the wealth gap.
The "not-so-wealthy" people are typically not buying new cars, they go for used. And guess where they get their used cars from? Plus, the subsidy on a 70K pounds car will more than pay for itself just from VAT alone. So if you look at it from this perspective, the whole subsidy story starts making a lot of sense. You kickstart the new technology, offsetting some of its costs. The wealthy people help driving it, offsetting the other part of the costs. Investors see that the government is serious about it, so new markets are opening - and thus they invest, to get their chance. To summarize: the subsidy doesn't cost the government a lot, if anything at all. It sends proper signals to investors and researchers, and as a byproduct it will provide the second hand market with cheap used EVs. I believe that's actually exactly how it has to be done...
@@pqvid: Except that's not how pricing works. If the target market for Product X will pay price P, then the a subsidy (S) does NOT yield P - S for consumers, but P + S for sellers. THAT is how subsidies work, with some slight marginal adjustments to compensate for the marginal costs to buyers and sellers to obtain the subsidy.
There is also the problem with public charge point and all the different apps you need to use them. I don't need ESSO money to use an ESSO petrol station, I don't need special BP money to use a BP station. There was on guy in the states who has 46 different apps on his phone so he can travel for his work. Idiotic situation.
At a dealership this summer in Canada, a Mach E in GT trim had a price tag of $CDN88k. The petrol version, 5.0l V8 in GT trim was $CDN52K. I can buy a lot of petrol for the difference!!
The depreciation in value of these cars totally offsets any savings on fuel . They are a hole in the road to pour your money into . At this point , they are a scam .
@@sobeit1927 A "scam?" Dunn'o but the whole EV car thing seems on shaky foundations. My understanding, incomplete though it certainly is, is that the battery production is anything but nature-friendly. And when the car ages, what about battery replacement? How many $$$$? Then there are the horror stories of water intrusion. I am very unsure these are the way of the future. In any case, I am not going to be in the early adopter crowd for an EV.
@terrydanks Estimates of cost of battery replacement (parts and labor) is $7600 - $20,000 U.S. That in itself will absolutely kill any used car market if the the battery has less than half its life remaining. As I mentioned in a previous post, there is way too much uncertainty and possible heavy future expense with these full EV's. A hybrid though, for many people makes a lot of sense. Which is why I'm planning to buy one.
You are so correct with respect to the cost of a new EV being out of reach for many of us. Also, the fact that the number one issue with used EV's is the battery, and the batteries cost a fortune to replace. I see the total cost of ownership of a new EV to be a bit too high for many people. I know plenty of people who find it a struggle to purchase some used car at $10,000 - $15,000. Good luck finding a good EV with a battery that isn't getting ready to die for that kind of cash. In fact, the price of all cars, both used and new, has gone up so much this year that most people I know are just refurbishing their present older cars. The price of a new transmission or a good deal of engine work is not much more then the sales tax on a new car these days. They can push EV's till icebergs float in Tampa Bay and if people just don't have the cash for one they are not going to give up their old gas powered clunkers until they will no longer move and parts are totally unavailable.
I have had 2 EVs and am currently driving a Kona EV. Please understand that the range showing is calculated based on recent driving conditions - up hills, speed, temp, heavy foot etc. When you reset the trip history, then it assumes the best an most recent history - i.e. just a few seconds. That will change as you drive along. My Kona has averaged 4.8 miles/kw since since day one. My driving home today up lots of hills say 2.8 miles/kw. The driving uphill kills it. At freeway speeds, I average about 4.3 mi/kw. So 4.3 time 64 kwh in the battery gives me a range of 275 miles. At best, the range reading is simply saying that at the current conditions you can go about so many miles. I hope this helps.
Nope. They are not ‘about to die’. EV batteries will last longer than a petrol engine and, even then, are only down to about 80% capacity. You really do sound like someone who has done a lot of thinking, but not much research.
I can't charge at home and found your acknowledgement of the difficulties highly supportive. Thank you. If someone asked me to sum up my several years' EV driving experience in one word, I'd say 'unpredictable', and I'd also urge them *not* to become an EV driver unless they can charge at home. Thanks again.
@@avidviewer1 _I'd also urge them not to become an EV driver unless they can charge at home_ .....The problem is, the Gov is urging - nay - *forcing* us all to become just that! In 6½ yrs time, will we see blocks of flats with hundreds of mega-long extension cables hanging out of windows? (was gonna put a 'lol' on the end there, but it's really NO joke...the country isn't - nor will be, by the time it's upon us...READY for it.) Also as was mentioned in the video, just _where_ is the shortfall in fuel tax going to re-couped from? It's gonna be an expensive future....
Informative and timely comments Pete. Got my first EV, a Tesla recently on Wednesday afternoon and next day went to France on a 1300 mile road trip. No issues at all despite never having charged before. Tesla infrastructure and mapping is superb and all the charging bays I used were wide and would accommodate a wheelchair. That’s why I opted for a Tesla..the total ownership package not just the car.
Been driving EVs since 2014 (BMW i3, Renault Zoe, Tesla Model 3, Volvo C40). Like you we are lucky enough to have a 7kW wall box. I completely agree with everything you said and honestly, I’ve made the same points to friends and colleagues if they ask me about EVs. The government is not governing this situation properly (mind you they are not really governing anything properly so what did we expect?!).
The best measure is If a single supply can't deliver the capacity of 7kw X 1hr of charge "per car" on demand The logical implication is deliver 7kw X Nhrs THEN deliver 7kw X 1hr to each car. In other words National energy suppliers provide low charge to an on site battery, the battery by design can then deliver high charge rates ( the 7kw Hr ) to each car on site needs. That's the practical work around to the network not able to scale it's deliver with demand...introduce a buffer step. Network > one charge point > one car Or Network > one battery on site > N charge points > N cars In my example one battery could be N batteries so.its scalable 1 battery supports say 4 cars in parallel
@@cnault3244 And I wonder how much that 7 kw wall box cost to purchase and install. Also, what if you have to park outside and somebody steals your charging cable?
Hello sir, I am not from the UK. But I live here in Canada. There is a huge push here in Canada for Electric Vehicles. You were talking about those living in flats (or apartments). I live in an apartment (apartment complex) myself, and just back in September of this year, my landlord installed 2 charging stations for each building. Now these charging stations, you have to pay by credit card or using the app just like you would at a public charging station. We have about 24 units or more per building. Some units may have 1 or 2 vehicles for each unit. We have 3 buildings in our complex. Now, at this time no one in our complex has an EV. There might be maybe a hybrid vehicle or 2 in our complex, and none of them are the plug in hybrid. Anyways, my point is this no one in my complex seem to care about getting an EV. We already have problems in our complex with our power going out from time to time. A few weeks ago, we had the inspector putting stickers on the charging stations, and he told me he would never buy an EV because the infrastructure is not there yet. He said he has been on the industry for 20 years, and he still wouldn't even purchase an EV. He said he would encourage people to get a plug hybrid or just even a regular hybrid, but never a EV when the infrastructure is not even there. I am the same way, I would never purchase an EV. Maybe a plug in hybrid, but definitely not a EV when the infrastructure is lacking. Those are my 2 cents.
Hello John. Like you, I live in Canada, and I too live in a high rise building, although mine is a 56 Unit condo, in which I own my own two parking spots. I drive a 2022 Volvo C40, fully electric car, and have never had an issue with charging my vehicle, as I have my own charger installed at my parking space. I charge my vehicle at night, when the fees for electricity are reduced and on longer road trips in which the distance travelled exceeds the range of my vehicle, I simply charge the vehicle at one of the fast chargers located along my route. My vehicle alerts me to where these chargers are located. Admittedly, driving an EV does not fit everyone's lifestyle yet, it does fit mine perfectly. Typically I spend about $30 per month charging my vehicle whereas I used to spend about $200 a month driving my Internal Combustion Engine car. And I like to think that I am doing my part to help this planet survive. So I appreciate that an EV might not work for you, there are thousands of people who drive them and are getting along just fine. And there will be more in the future. Thanks for your "two cents" and thanks for reading my "nickel".
The "inspector" works for the POWER company. He's been working for the monopoly for 20 years. He knows nothing about EVs. Or. He knows EVs facts and is lying to the gullible - hoping to protect his job.
@@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck you seemed to have missed the point that I was making. As I said, he was discouraging people from purchasing electric cars because he knows there isn't enough electricity on the power grid to charge everyone's cars and power everyone's homes.
The reason your mileage per charge changes: When you reset the mileage management, it reverts to factory defaults. These defaults are typically based upon optimum parameters such as operating temperature, road surface, head winds, etc. More, significantly, environmental controls being off. Both heat and AC require significant amounts of battery power. If you frequently drive with either on, the mileage computer will began to factor that and all other impacts into an average. Thus, while the range decreases. Also, each time you charge discharge the battery, you take a slice of it's life/capacity away.
Basically, the "factory defaults" are a fantasy land of variables which are used to sell the EVs to ignorant customers by making unattainable claims of performance based on conditions that don't exist in the real world. Simply put, EV are sold by Snake Oil salesmen and politicians. Sorry, I can't tell one from another, they all look the same to me.
Yep. It's like my HP Laserjet printer. It gives you a number for how many pages more you can print with the present cartridge. It's based on what you having been printing, and extrapolates it. You may actually get significantly more or less.
Great video! This hits so many important issues on living with an EV. As Retiree in the US who enjoys exploring our vast country we opted for a hybrid SUV. We've taken several 1500 mile trips and it's practical and reasonably economical at 30-35 MPG.
No fires yet? Do you charge it in your garage while the family sleeps? Do you sleep with one eye open in hopes of escaping the fire? Look how many explode and burn uncontrollably every DAY. Look hard because they scrub them quickly. Ask your car insurance salesman for an EV quote. Sit down for the answer. Many Companies no longer insure them. Some charge double and triple. Premiums are based on losses. Hybrids blow up as well as regular EV's.
Thanks Pete, great content as always. A few points (from an ex Mach-e ‘owner’). Resetting the range clock does absolutely nothing to impact the range, it just resets it to the theoretical range until you e done a few trips and then normal ‘range calculation’ is resumed (240 on warm days, 200 on cold days). I didn’t have a home box, used the public network. It was a complete ball ache with charge points out of order or full on about 30% of journeys. Travelling to and from Cornwall on holiday with the family was god awful with all the waiting around to charge. And the public charge points say 50kwh…complete tosh! lucky to get 40kwh out of most. After 9 months I gave up. Back to dinosaur juice I’m afraid and life is so much easier. I’ll see what EVs look like in another 10 years - maybe. Keep the content coming, great work
I do think you need some common sense to run an EV. The "the dash says" crowd and the "it's a 50kwh charger and I'm only getting 40kwh" should just stick to the self charging hybrids.
This is why people buy Tesla's - the ownership experience is completely different in this respect. It is depressing that the user experience for non-Tesla EVs is still so poor. You get 40kW from the 50kW charger cos they are nominally spec'd at 400V and 125A (sometimes 100 or 120A even). But when you plug in to charge, your battery is probably at 360-380V, and the current maximum is fixed. And there are some transmission/conversion losses too, Obviously you shouldn't need to know this, and when it says 50kW you should reasonably expect to get 50kW....
What on earth decided you to buy a Mac-E without any apparent thought or planning Gary? It seems a bit unrealistic if you don’t mind me saying. (Are you prone to making these types of spur of the moment whims?) Why no home box?
@@philtucker1224 Exactly. As I said above, I made sure that there are sufficient on street charging points in my local area before pushing the button on buying. Plus, I've done trips to the south of France in my i3 and spent no more time at services charging than I normally would stop for, on such a trip, to stop for a meal break, pee, or just a leg stretch, except I didn't need to queue to use a pump and then queue to pay (if pay at pump is not available, which it often isn't at motorway services).
Hi Pete, I’ve scanned through the posts to see if anyone else has mentioned this, but I haven’t seen it yet. I have met many people from the UK, and one of the first things they remark on about the US (aside from our weight problem) is the sheer size of the country. I’m sure a 300 mile range sounds like a lot to the Brits, but if you live anywhere between the two coasts here, that can be a problem. You won’t necessarily find charge points as easy as you’ll find gas stations.
When I was young many years ago and watched cowboy films in America they used horses to get around and a horse drawn wagon if they was taking the family out for the day. Time to readjust your mind sets you will own nothing be happy and not travel or vote for Trump and hope he kicks the WEF and net zero insanity into touch.
This appears to be a very common problem politicians have conveniently ignored. They'll claim their own EV on their expenses paid by taxpayers. while these same expense paying taxpayers mostly can't afford a new EV. This in turn can't be charged in many areas without sufficient power generation & transport or charging point infrastructure.
I'm retired and like to travel the US. On any given day, 300 miles would run out fast. How long does it take to charge an EV vehicle? When I drive on the interstate, there are often 20-30 people gasing up. How will 30 people charge at one time? I think EV's are nice on paper, but reality is a totally different thing.
In some cases, traveling through the Canadian Rockies, there are many signs warning you of the last gas station and then yer own yer own. And they ain't kidding (I'm Canadian BTW). It's a no brainer to have a few litres of gas in your vehicle on these road trips. This isn't going off the map. This is trying to go from point A to point B through the Rockies. It's massive. I would be very nervous with an EV in bad weather trying to attempt that. Not against EVs at all. But it's a solution that will, IMO, not fit all countries 100%.
If the migration to EV in the UK looks challenging, imagine it here in Eastern Europe. In the cities most people live in apartment buildings with shared open air parking areas. Charging an EV in such environment is almost impossible. And if they want to make EVs accessible, it will be a HUGE undertaking - the city power infrastructure will have to be completely rebuilt. And if they want to install EV chargers in the parking areas, that also means they'll have to dig the roads a lot. It's crazy to even imagine it.
I'm in Barcelona and I've had my Tesla Model 3 for 3 years now. My parking is in a different building than my flat. The biggest challenge that I had was getting charging in my parking spot. I had to petition the building owners to allow me to have a new electric meter added and I was lucky that they had space for 3 more. Then I hired a professional installer and they were able to get everything done for just €2,000 and 500€ was the charger box. As I always charge at night when it's cheaper I don't think it will be an issue when other people transition to electric cars.
@@glennshoemake4200 charging one, two or few cars is not a problem. The problem will arise, when there are more people, who have EVs and want to charge them simultaneously (at night or whatever). The existing electrical infrastructure will need to be rebuild completely, in order to handle this extreme loads. Also, when you say "just" 2000 + 500 EUR, do you understand, that this is about 1 month salary for most people in Europe? This is not cheap, it's an additional expense. In my opinion, without huge support from the EU - the transition to EV will be very hard for many people. Also, Tesla ain't exactly cheap and affordable for a lot of people. It is not a problem for one person with good income to get EV today. What is hard is to make this transition for everyone (or almost everyone). I think you underestimate the challenge.
@@moetocafe Yes Tesla is not cheap, but people here spend as much on a petrol only car such as Mercedes, Audi or BMW. I drove a Ford Focus for 10 years to save money for the Tesla. I'm glad I made the switch to Electric. My car uses 3kw an hour which is not a lot. I could pay extra for more KW pipe but as my car sits in the garage it's really not necessary. €2000 was total install, 1500€ was labor and other materials and €500 was the electric box with its own Menekes plug and key to lock it when not in use. Finance rates were cheap in 2019, but not so much now. Still it's the best car that I've ever owned and still puts a smile on my face when I drive it and when it's cleaned.
@@glennshoemake4200 I'm sure it's a great car and you have joy with it. And that's very nice! I am not anti-EV in any way. I was simply pointing out, that the transition to EV for the majority of people (and thus for the governments) will be a challenge and will probably take more time, than anticipated.
@@moetocafe That's true and in November 2019, there were a lot fewer options in buying a EV. My biggest criteria was the ability to drive 90 minutes away to Costa Brava Beach and to enjoy the day out and to be able to drive home without having the need to charge anywhere. The Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe are both not capable of this and as I knew that I would keep the car I went ahead and bought the Long Range Tesla Model 3. My wife was initially against the purchase because of the high price, but now she loves it and always wants to go out for a ride. There is a good chance Tesla will build a cheaper hatchback which would be great for the European market if they can get the price at €25,000.
Great video, and you have raised some points that most people who own EVs seemingly do not want to discuss or debate. A couple in particular stand out: 1. the increased current that 'fast chargers' need so that EV users can be on their way in about 15 minutes causes a massive drain on the local electricity network, however most EV users either plainly ignore this fact or couldn't care less, and 2. the subsidies offered to people to encourage the uptake of EVs only benefits those that can already afford it. So essentially society is funding people who shouldn't be getting a subsidy in the first place. It's not too dissimilar to subsidies some governments provide for the uptake of solar panels. Most people either can't afford solar panels or live in a situation where they couldn't have them even if they wanted to, i.e. those who live in apartments. Again, it's the majority of society that has to pay so that a few can benefit.
Most EVs don't use fast chargers more than 5-10% of the time, and the amount of current that they actually use is a lot smaller than you think. Most draw at about 150kW on a DC fast charger, but put less than 50kWh worth of juice into the battery at any session. The vast majority of the time (like 90+%) EVs charge overnight at MUCH lower amperage (mine can refill a days worth driving on a 15a, 120v outlet, and only uses about 180kWh per month, or 1/10th of my home's monthly use). MOST people don't live in apartments or condos (and although both of those are getting incentives to add at least an electrical outlet at each space, it'll take a while for that to be ubiquitous). In fact, of the 280 million cars and light trucks in the US, EVs could serve perfectly for day to day use for almost 75% of them right now (which is about 200 million vehicles). Even if all manufacturers switched to only making EVs first thing tomorrow morning, it'd take decades of normal automobile sales levels to replace that many cars. More than enough time to expand generation, much like the electric utilities have as we've added thousands of huge data centers for Amazon, Google and the like over the last 5 years (that use more juice together than if every car were an EV). You think the majority live in apartments? Flat out wrong. Oh, and none of my 3 EVs over the last decade have had subsidies. They've been about $25k new, which is about the same as a Honda CRV or VW GTi, with similar power, and more range than most people use in a week.
One point that I did not hear: if you are at a two port charging station "alone" and say it will take an hour to charge your vehicle, should a second person pull up and use the second port, your time to charge has now doubled. The charging stations can only put out a certain amperage (wattage) and if you are the only one there you get it all, if not you only get half. Same at home should you have two EV's and lucky enough to have two ports. I loved the video! Cheers from North Carolina USA!
I live in Spain. Many people live in apartments (64+ in a block) with communal parking. I have a private parking space, but it is in a shared garage. A lot of Spanish also live in townhouses without garages. I am glad you did this video because I have been saying the same thing and a lot of people just ignore the problem.
I don't understand how come so many people do not realize the reality on this situation...how can so many be so ignorant including the governments that are imposing this...are they really that stupid or they just want to f@ck us all up??!!🤔
Not everyone will be in a situation to have a level two charger at their home. But that is no different than not having a gas pump at your house. You simply top off before you get home just like you’d fill your tank. I’m a big fan of EV’s but our world is nowhere near ready for compulsory EV ownership. California, the most ignorant state on the planet, will mandate that ICE cars be banned and want to force everyone to drive an EV. But then they tell you not to charge it because the grid can’t handle it. What a mess. Phase EV’s in over time as driving range is extended, the charging infrastructure is improved, and the cost of EV’s become more affordable for everyone. ICE cars should never be banned. Another situation not being considered is the elderly. Are we going to expect 70 year old grandma, on a low fixed income, to pay a thousands of dollars to purchase and install a level two charger at her home. Or if she lives in a high rise apartment building are we expecting her to drive to a charging station in the dead of winter and sit in her car for the length of time it takes to fully charge. California, we are nowhere near ready for your forced government mandates with respect to EV’s.
As someone who drove 2,500 miles each month with a EV without level 2 charging at home my experience was as follows. Everyday while I'm at lunch I would go to the local EVGO station which luckily was near three places to eat at. I learn pretty quickly I had to go for lunch super early around 10am otherwise I'll be screwed due to only two charge points and too much activity between 11am-2pm. The average cost of getting my car battery charge about 55-60% was 10 dollars per charge and would take 30-45 minutes I have a Mach-E so I knew fast charging past 80% was pointless. Generally most days was having my lunch and then helping people work the charge station as the card reader never worked and the station only work properly by EVGO app. Which setting up a new user is time consuming and made the lines even worse at this charge station. In my case everything work out which I could do it during lunch but I'm sure for many they won't have that convince and will be burden with commute, hours at works, and then wasting 30-2 hours depending in the car charging which will really cut into people personal life which might be mentally unhealthy for the population long term.
With an ICE car you would fill up three times every two weeks, on the way home, it would take ten minutes per fill and you would avoid the lunchtime stress and could eat when and where you chose to, not where circumstance dictated, being forced to adopt a lifestyle to accommodate my car would be a hard circle to square.
If you went to lunch at 10 AM, it doesn’t sound like you returned to work at 11 AM, so did you have a 2 hour lunch? In any office where I worked, I would not be permitted a 2 hour lunch!! Also on the days that I was on the road conducting business, the noon time charge up would be impossible. In my life’s work, a 2 hour lunch would get you fired after your first 2 hour lunch!!
@byoh100 My schedule is extremely flexible but generally, I'll be out no more than an hour between travel charging and eating. As I mention it not ideal for most people which is why I'm against these mandates trying to force everyone to EV when it not a car that is ideal for all scenarios.
@@NihilistSolitude not finding fault, I understood your statement, just wondering what kind of a lunch/work schedule you work as I know work requirements are almost as varied as the number of working people in the US. Have a good one.
I recently joined the EV community almost a year ago. I do have a home charger and it has been wonderful. I often have discussions with people about my EV and it always starts with the topic of charging. My advice to those is if you won't have the ability to charge at home, I caution against and EV if it is your primary mode of transportation. Just the few times I have used the charging network I am not a fan. Although it is only a 15 minute stop for me it is a hassle due to the fact that near me there isn't much of an option without driving several miles. Luckily the option I do have is with the company that I have free charging with for a while from when I bought my car. The EV experience has been amazing for me. I don't think I would say the same if I had to rely on public charging.
If you are doing just local journeys it's fine. Then the cost of buying a new EV is far greater, I doubt I would spend a cool £50k on a vehicle to say how wonderful it is for a 15 minutes of enjoyment. Majority of the public do not have that luxury and comfort. EVs are a scam that will eventually backfire on people's pockets big time. THEY EXPLODE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
@@lnr243 - My 2015 Nissan Leaf I bought in 2017 (for $9k) has only exploded twice a year, so only 14 'splosions' so far . . . . mostly at home (not 'all over the place'). Not a big issue for me. take care, rh
@@lnr243 - Ha - ha . Compared to the 1963 Ford F-100 it replaced it is more like a little 'space-ship' ! But you probably consider it a roller-skate? take care, rh
Thank you for posting this video. It is incredibly well balanced and should be mandatory viewing for any politicians who think that EVs are some sort of panacea.
Sadly, it’s not balanced at all. He even admitted in the first few minutes that he doesn’t understand how the predicted range on his car is calculated.
@@pinkybar7328 They will be recycled or reused, plenty of info out there if you want it, not really been an issue so far as so few have actually needed recycling. An EV battery that is finished in a car is still fine for something like a batery farm (balancing load from renewables etc)
I live in Iowa, USA. We have the third largest wind generating capacity per capita in the USA, some into thirty years of use. Listening to some of the environmental concerns you are having in this conversation, it might be interesting to relay an observation I see going on in my location with other green projects. With aged windmills here in my state, and around the USA, we have blade replacement going on in many of the fields. The blades are fiberglass and no one has a recycling plan/program for outdated blades. So far, the solution has been and continues to be to load the old blades on trucks and drive them to any place that has been found that will receive them to be buried. These old blades take up quite a bit of space. We have hundreds of thousands of these blades in the USA and this is the singular end to their use. It does not seem to me to be an efficient end-of-life for any part of a renewable energy policy. Think of all the energy used to dispose of and then the land use issues in this disposal process.
ALL of these “Green Energy Schemes” are “Half Assed” at best. I have been involved in Green Building Design in the past and it’s also a BS story as well. If it wasn’t for the government funding involved, it would be a total bust. Government can’t do what they are supposed to do let alone getting involved in energy!!
Hi sir as a retired electrical contractor I think we need to be aware that the average domestic dwelling is supplied with a 100 amp supply , which can indeed be less than say 80 amps depending on the installation . If you factor in the possibility of numerous vehicles being changed on one incoming supply , you will appreciate a problem is is going to manifest itself . Give the existing demand of the household supply already copping with the demands of. ie cookers, showers , washing machines etc . We can begin to question are we in a position to actually be able to accommodate such a situation . I fully appreciate that most people assume you can just plug something in and everything will be ok , but in reality this is seldom the case . Excess demand can = heat which can = thermal runaway which can = combustion ie = fire 🔥 .
Although the US uses a lot more electric power per person than in other countries, since 2010 the averages have been coming down. We have more efficient motors, heat, and lights than in the past.
you are right - my road has a 35mm2 three phase cable which supplies about 10 houses. When I’m pulling 12kw overnight the voltage drops a fair amount. Only needs a few more houses charging and heating water for it to become a problem
@@JBroc-359 If you look into the "homeless" issue you will find that at its core is usually drug / alcohol addiction and mental illness. These social problems have NOTHING to do with EV's.
@@segokorsch Good sense dictates that the rise in homeless people has an impact on the average home electrical system. they aint got one, which reduces , as a factor, the amount of energy used in the states as a statistic. we were discussing home owner electrical usage. Less owners = less usage. Right? Homeless people do not have "average domestic dwellings" The Core you speak of is directly related to rampant capitalism, and the inability to see beyond our legalities. maybe your life never sucked so bad that you turned to something else for an escape. let you rent soar 2 or 3 hundred percent then lose your income source. get evicted, start a criminal record from it, and see how much more money we can squeeze out of those who have none. and people sit around and wonder why all these shooting occur. Plus, the entire country cannot all have all of the upgraded appliances and better efficiency products. That just sounds like a curved metric to me.
I've had an EV for nearly 2 years and I'm leaving them behind and going back to hybrid. I don't have off street parking and can only use rapid chargers / supermarket trickle chargers. A year ago, the number of EVs on the road was so low that rapid chargers were very easy to access. Now, the balance has completely changed and it's impossible to get a charging slot without queuing behind several other cars at any time of day. In winter, charging is twice as bad because energy efficiency per mile nosedives. I have to charge my EV every 2 days. At this stage, I don't believe EVs will ever become ubiquitous because of the millions of people who don't have at-home charging. The number of rapid chargers we need would be astronomical.
Chargers certainly need to become more efficient. As that becomes a reality, there would only need to be less than a full changeover from gas pumps to EV chargers.
I agree the number of Foster charges needs to increase and be maintained for a really can’t agree with you. Claim that you have to queue behind loads of people. I’ve had an eBay for nearly 5 years. I do several long journeys five hour drives to visit family throughout the year, I have certain places I go and I never need to queue if you’re gonna stop at a motorway services with lots of chargers that you’re going to queue, people are like sheep.
I think of not being able to charge at home as similar to not having a laundry washing machine at home. I remember back in the days when I lived in apartments, I would just wait until I had absolutely no clean clothes left, then either use the communal washing machines (if my apartment had one) or making a journey to a laundromat and just burning up a whole afternoon of my time. It's certainly doable, but you're definitely sacrificing time and convenience.
I’ve found that even level 1 charging is surprisingly effective, I get 5-7 miles per hour on 1.4kw charger (American standard wall plug power) and can easily charge 12hours+ a day and we don’t drive over 60.
Hey Pete, I live in Australia. and installed Solar panels on roof several years ago and was getting good rate for surplus electricity I was selling to the grid, now I get next to nothing plus hidden solar meter charges. I saw this happening a long time ago, as you rightly say, the same will happen with EV's when Governments lose out on excise etc. Very well put together arguments on living with an EV.
The Australian Govt has already discussed making EV owners pay extra to make up for the tax revenue they lose from petrol sales. It's all a massive con! People are told yet another 'fairy story' about how great EVs are, but reality gives a different result. Imagine the cost to run an EV when power prices go up another 56% (they have ALREADY increased!) + those Govt EV taxes.
... until they run out of gas and can't get any more because fuel pumps are, you guessed it, electric. Meanwhile, those of us who can charge our EVs from our solar panels will just keep going as usual.
You are absolutely freakin' RIGHT. It's absolutely amazing how greatly the motoring press have engaged EVs without scrutinizing the elephant in the room.
Not just the motoring press - how about the Government? They wouldn't dare announce that voters without off-street parking can't own cars and yet the implication is crystal clear. Nor is off-street parking the only elephant in the room. It seems inevitable that all the EV batteries currently in service are going to end up dumped in West Africa - with all the other toxic waste - because there's no recycling yet. (Incidentally there's a guy in Llangollen who charges his EV with a cable across the pavement. Dark nights, old people - it's bound to happen.)
@@rob5944 yes I'm sure we all remember the government scapage scheme in 2009 £2000 off a new car. Well I bought one and still have it . But now the diesel is a dirty word and again the government got it all wrong.
@@simonwilkinson6554 moreover I can't believe the new licencing system where road tax is calculated on the value new, whether it be under £40k or not. Then subsequent owners pay a percentage (or something like that). Consequently my daughter's mate has a 5 litre Mustang and it attracts quite a low amount considering..... madness!
Very good point about taxation and loss of revenues as we switch over to electric. In Colorado, USA our taxes per gallon is 22 cents. The Federal tax, as I understand it, is 18 cents. I should assume there is also a county and city tax. At minimum, 40 cents per gallon. Assuming 20 mpg, that’s 2 cents per mile. I currently pay about 11 cents per kW and figure conservatively 3 miles per kW. Just for easier math, let’s figure 4 cents per mile in my EV. That would have to go up at least 50% per mile to make up for that revenue. Currently in the US, there is NO tax on electricity for residential use.
Here in the Midwest U.S. a local Ford Dealer wanted to add several charging stations to align with Fords mandates and was told by the local power company that was not enough power in the area to do it. In the adjoining neighborhood with one wall unit it browns out the street when used at full power.
ne box browns out the neighborhood? Sounds like a seriously degraded grid. maybe you ought to consider a solar roof to protect you from outages due to winter storms, let alone electric cars.
Same where I live. There is a $100 plus charge (per) electric vehicle from the electric company (It needs its own meter). Also the normal car registrations is 50-100 for 2 years. Electric vehicles are charged that plus a road surcharge of currently $100 a year. It cost 200 extra for plates and at least $100 a month to charge it. Not including usage.
The long and short of this is, the power authority here and many elsewhere have gotten away with taking profits over the years and not re-investing in infrastructure improvements. From generation to distribution, much is required for the future. Petroleum corporations have taken customer money and reinvested in more refueling stations and the production infrastructure for over 100 years. Some of those now are getting on the EV charging distribution bandwagon.
$8k electricians quote to upgrade & install a Level 2 charging unit in my garage That's it no EV 4 me my house was built in the 60s & I'm not going through the anxiety of an hour to charge at stations that may or may not be working
In USA people who park on the street have been issued tickets for running extension cords across the sidewalk (footpath) to charge their cars. The dilemma as I see it is "Where is all this power to charge all these EVs going to come from ?"
@@coweatsman it will be like that everywhere, not just it the US, no country has enough surplus, we will need more coal, oil, gas, and nuclear, with only the later being carbon neutral.
Its all about control. Get us on electric cars. Flick a switch that creates a blackout. Give only the Renfields electricity. Power and control issue, not ecology and climate change.
I completely agree with your perspective, Thames up! Using an electric car can be challenging for some people, especially if they don’t have their own charger at home. While electric vehicles (EVs) are environmentally friendly and cost-effective in the long run, the convenience of owning one can be limited by access to reliable charging options. Without a personal charger, drivers often have to rely on public charging stations, which may not always be readily available or conveniently located. In some areas, finding a charging station can be time-consuming, and even when found, drivers may encounter long waiting times if the station is in high demand. Additionally, charging an EV can take significantly longer than refueling a traditional gasoline car, adding to the inconvenience. For those living in apartments or homes without dedicated parking spaces, the lack of easy access to charging infrastructure can be a major hurdle to embracing electric vehicles. To address these challenges, some cities and companies are expanding public charging networks, but until these are widely accessible, owning an EV without a home charger can feel limiting. Ideally, having a home charging station allows EV owners to charge their car overnight, ensuring they start each day with a full battery, but without it, the convenience of owning an electric vehicle diminishes.
I think that your average mileage issue is that when you reset this puts it back the factory setting which is based on ideal driving and conditions to maximise the range. However as soon as you start driving in the real world the actual range will come down showing what range you are really getting and will keep falling until you get to a true average range. So if I was you don't reset and you will end up with a more accurate range based on real world driving
Spot on Stephen. EV's are definitely not good for people who do a lot of country/highway driving as they will typically only get about 50-60% of the claimed range in these conditions.
When VW did a similar thing with their ICE cars it was described as a 'cheat device', and they were fined hugely. Which government will be courageous enough to prosecute fashionable EVs, and get repayments to cheated customers? Hint, don't hold your breath.
@@cnocspeireag How the hell you've managed to equate the VW emissions cheating scandal with the range estimation algorithm of an EV I have no bloody idea. People are weird.
@@Scuba72Chris I think he's trying to equate manufacturers lying about the typical EV range with lying about the diesel emissions i.e. just lying/cheating in general to try and attract customers or beat the govt tests. We're keeping our diesel and petrol cars for at least 10+ years as range anxiety is something we don't want to even think about - currently we fill up every 2 to 4 weeks and wait until the yellow light comes on before tanking up in less than 5 mins! Plus we have a 5 litre container in the boot for emergencies but it's never been needed so the fuel is just rotated approx. every year to keep it fresh!
@@Scuba72Chris the manufacturers aren't lying, because it is all based on the WLTP test. However, when it comes to highway range, which is the only time you really care about EV range, the WLTP is totally nonsense. You get about 2/3 of the states range. So the WLTP test is lying to you. And obviously, everyone in the business knows about it. But nobody is brave enough to mandate that the highway range is specified as well for all cars. NB: the numbers exists! It's the 4th part of the WLTP test. It's just not publicised anywhere.
I used to work for a company of around 200 employees, they only had 10 EV chargers in the company parking lot. So the people with EV's had to draw up a charging roster for each day of the week for those who needed to charge at work and that became a mission to manage as you can imagine.
I used to live in a commune where the electrucity bill was equally divided among all the residents and whoever was staying temporarily at the time. Too bad if you used less than someone with lots of electric gadgets and of course there was the problem of people who disappeared just before the money was due and even permanent residents who just didn't pay. So the remaining suckers (of which I was one) ended up paying a lot of money for little benefit
Excellent video as always! I’ve had my Tesla for 6 months and I fall into the category that you rightly raise. Cheapest public charger near me will cost £46 for a full charge (100kW battery) but now using the Tesla network for a long journey is now £69 for a charge…range 250 miles. For me the big issue is the sporadic pricing whereas fuel is fairly consistent. One last point that no one is talking about is learning to drive. As all electric cars are automatic, what licence will be available to use once fuel cars can’t be used as learner cars. Let’s face it, driving schools aren’t going to teach people in 10plus year old cars…..would love you view on that too! Keep up the awesome work.
£69 for 250 miles! Is that why whenever I watch an EV video on TH-cam they never tell you how much they've just paid to 'fill up' the car? For comparison, my 320d can easily get 500 miles from £85 of diesel.
You have a Tesla with 100kWh battery and only get 250 miles of range to a charge? I'd get your car checked out, that's appalling efficiency. (2.5 mi/kWh)
@@tonydoc903 well what I mean is that there is a small fluctuation in fuel pricing at the same time. Charging my car can range from £44 for a charge and £70, that’s a huge variation. My old car would cost within £5 for the cheapest and most expensive fuel…..
This is a fantastic video. The same issues you describe are the reasons I bought a Hybrid instead of an EV. In Ontario Canada where I live we have a government which cancelled all incentives for EV purchases. They are only available at the federal level. There is little to no infrastructure publically. People are going back to gas powered vehicles in the larger city centers as a result. Range insecurity is a huge issue in Canada and of course our winter lowers your range. It is a mess which no one talks about. So much more to discuss but will leave it at that. Terrific, straight forward and honest discussion.
Bottom line is, if you don't have an exclusive charging source, think twice about getting a EV. Even if there are public charging points near where you live/work, you may need to line up to get your EV charged up (regardless what the cost is).
You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned forgetting to charge and then having to make to an unexpected journey. My sister in law drives the Mach e EV and had the situation where she forgot to charge and had a call from the school advising her Son had a serious accident and had gone to hospital. Half way through her journey she ran out of charge and had to get family to pick her up. She has no faith in the car now and is switching back to Diesel.
What i want to know is how she got her car back and charged? Call a tow truck every time it runs out of range? Another money drain compared to having to walk with a small tank of gas and get it going till you fill it up at any gas station. To me that makes working for a living to living to work and pay everything on time. Pass!
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 ha ha good point Pete. I can just imagine a tow truck company have to buy 3-4 trucks to be able to work 24 hours and have to keep 2-3 on the charger to be able to do so if they have a small territory limit. Where i live from one town/city to the next in the great white north of B.C. with battery killing life cold it is a 2 and a half hour drive to the midway point plus the time working the hydraulics recovering the car or truck or rig.
I've been considering those aspects for better than thirty years. I worked in high end electronics for forty years and I've been an automotive mechanic all my life since about age ten. So much of the reality of electric vehicles have simply been ignored, tamped down, hidden from the general public. I've got less problems than most, I am retired, live alone, and leave my home only once or twice a week, but regardless of those facts, when we have a challenging issue, we have no recourse if we are forced into these things. Thanks for laying things out so clear and forthright. I have no desire to leave my forty year old diesel car. So far, almost no consideration of the cost to make batteries, the destruction mining their materials imposes and the fact they have a set specific number of charging cycles directly related to depth of discharge and speed of recharging. At the current time, China is the source of most of the raw materials for producing the cars and the batteries, and appears to be a fact into the foreseeable future. "Rare earth minerals" have been sourced my whole life as they currently are. I was reading about "electric vehicles" since the mid sixties, knowing they were present at the beginning of "automobiles" and quite competitive with hydro-carbon fuel vehicles" at that time. When our governments assume authority to tell us what we can have, what we must do, it's called Tyrrany.
It is like the Childs fairy tale about the kings clothes . Everybody is told he looks wonderful and believes it . Then the child who has not been brainwashed says , he has got nothing on .
Hi John, I’m sorry that you find yourself in a lonely situation but I also hope you have achieved all those things you set out to do fifty years ago, and that you have achieved satisfaction. Peace and love bro. 🙏
@@howardsimpson489 sounds good but in the U.K. we only get about 4 months of useful sunlight per year so we are developing more nuclear energy which has a 100% clean output.
Thanks for highlighting these issues we might face. Me, living in Spain and Austria a hybrid is still much, much better than an EV with all those things you mentioned
Thank you Peter for raising the issues of disabled people having difficulty with charging electric vehicles. I’m posting the hyperlink to your excellent video on a couple of disability Facebook groups. Keep up the excellent work. Andrew
A true story : A disabled person recently leased an electric car through Motability and then posts of a disability Facebook group that he doesn’t have off-road parking and asking where near his south-coast home can he charge it. I was aghast. Surely if you’re going to lease an EV that’s the first consideration?
@@David-bl1bt I totally agree. Indeed I would go furthest and say that Motability have a moral responsibility to their disabled customers who perhaps don’t have the technical ability to understand EVs to ensure they have access to a nearby charging facility. On a personal level I had the opposite experience recently when my local Peugeot Motability Dealer tried to sell me a home charger costing £700 when I enquired about leasing a 308 PHEV, despite me making it very clear that I have a 13 amp socket on my garage that suits my needs quite adequately. He tried to claim that the wall box “would charge the car better’. Fortunately I’m not that naive.
@@weenedonpetrol 🤣 typical dealer, full of BS hoping you are gullible enough to believe what they say. Never ask a deal for their recommendation, never believe a word they tell you, that's the best mantra Buyer beware...do your own research.
You bring up an excellent point. If you buy an EV when you can charge it at home, you're limited when you move as to where you can get a flat since you now own a car that can't be charged if you don't have off-street parking included.
and, as an electrician, I can tell you it costs a LOT to install a charger, much less having to upgrade your electrical service (more $$$) to support the load... that is if your utility can support the load...
After seeing the water spot on the windshield for so long, it dawned on me that one might be concerned about the affect it would have on your range......recently many EV drivers on the east coast in the US experienced cold winter days and shortened battery life. So much that they had to drive without the heater running just to make it to the next charging station. Batteries will always be the Achilles heel of this movement. Always.
Maybe.... but battery technology is continually evolving... "Necessity is the Mother of Invention" ... From what I've seen, I am confident workable solutions are being found.
@@Paul99T we know all the elements of the periodic table and we know their electrical properties. There is no magical new element that could be discovered. Once you know the mathematical equation you can quite easily calculate every possible combination of elements to determine their performance as a battery. The evolution of batteries is just tinkering around with the engineering of the boxes.
@@Paul99T This kind of logic confounds me! In what way is it evolving? We've had Duracell AA's for decades...no one has improved on that. Same for 12v car batteries. There's absolutely no reason to state that some new kind of battery will be invented unless you have evidence. And by the way, if one were to be invented, existing EVs would become worthless overnight! If we follow your logic we might as well plan to dismantle the NHS on the grounds that in the future we'll have devices likes Dr McCoy had on Star Trek!
@@tentruesummers9043 It's this kind of "logic" that just makes me facepalm. Clearly you've not bothered to go look at what's going on in the world of battery tech, but you're basically writing off the work of thousands of scientists and industrialists based on..... the existence of a Duracell AA battery? Good grief. "There's absolutely no reason to state that some new kind of battery will be invented unless you have evidence." - Just google "new battery technologies", there's enough links there - to reputable sources, I might add, not just puff pieces and other crankery - to keep you busy for several hours.
I like the way you’re thinking and the fact that you’re putting these thoughts out there to start a public conversation on the topic. Here in the states, Washington State and Utah specifically, the taxation on miles you put on your EV has already begun.
One other thing to consider is the impact on industry that uses cheaper 'off-peak' energy. If we are all charging vehicles overnight then the concept of 'off-peak' disappears, along with the cheaper rates. This could significantly raise prices to businesses whose cost model is based on the consumption of cheaper energy. The additional costs will have to be recovered, and who usually has to pay it? The consumer.
I'd argue this is kinda missing the point of moving use to different hours. Off peak is cheap because demand is so low that we have generation capacity that we have to use or find a way to not generate and that is expensive, so getting people to use it is good. If we through pricing or reactive use mechanisms can eliminate times of very low use it makes the whole grid much cheaper to operate as we avoid a large portion of these costs. You see news about renewables being paid to not generate because it gets clicks, but every form of power generation gets paid to not generate. The flatter the power curve over time the less this happens and it is a huge part of the overall cost. Yes, businesses that specifically use the cheapest electricity at set times will have a worse time of it but that doesn't translate to "we all pay the cost" as the total cost is way lower, so we should all end up reaping the benefits.
I live in a large city (in mainland Europe). There are now exactly two public charging points in my vicinity with two outlets each. There are hundreds, possibly thousands car owners in the area (and it's a nightmare to park around here after like 4PM) with no option of private charging. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like if the amount of EVs increased significantly like it's supposed to in the coming years. And given how long it took for these two charging points to be built, I also can't really imagine the situation changing significantly in a few years time. We are *not* ready for mass EV use in the slightest.
@@smashingturnips5353Because it is largely irrelevant and might also invite useless "well that's because country X/city X, dumbass" comments, and because I don't really feel the need to advertise needlessly where I live publicly on the internet.
You are basically describing my situation. 2 charging spots in somewhat "close" distance of mine but usually occupied. And I would have to drive an EV there first which is roughly 1km in each direction, then walk back home and return to the car and then drive back and search for a parking spot again. It is absurd to even think about what living with an EV would be for someone like me renting a small place in the city. And the kicker? I live in a city near Wolfsburg where Volkswagen is situated and currently producing the next generation of electric vehicles noone can afford. =D
All points raised are very valid. In my home community there have been two apartments built and one under construction and charging for an electric vehicle have not been considered in any of them. There is also the problem that none of the charging stations are pull through so for larger vehicles or any pulling a trailer a real hassle. And why after all these years do the regulating societies not force the manufactures to produce standardised plugs? To me that just shows that regulating authorities are a few million bricks short of a load. Insane. When the internal combustion engine first hit the road the manufactures did not put in their own fuel stations. Then there is the price gouging for electricity. Sometime needs to be done here. Now if I could afford to buy one I would have one this afternoon. As a retired person close to 90% of my driving I could charge at home. Trips to the two largest towns in my area for summer and with a long range version I may make it. So even if I topped off on a high speed charger would be fine in the time of a coffee. In the winter I would have a meal and take the time to make sure fully charged for the trip home. When propane was first used as a fuel I switched. Got several years with my personal and company vehicles of cheap fuel. I look at electric as the same. Once everyone is hooked on electric they will be no cheaper than what we are driving now. Here in B.C. Canada our insurance provider is being underhanded on having us report the mileage on our vehicles when we get insurance. Today they say if you are a low kilometre driver we can get cheaper insurance. What it really is when enough are switched to electric we will be hit with a km charge at the end of the year to replace the road tax electrics are avoiding. Lets face it in the history of mankind there has never been a honest government. A point of interest for me I hear stories that they can not sell electric vehicles. There is thousands sitting on lots. So can someone explain how the few people I know that are waiting for a electric vehicle cannot get them? You hear there is thousands around unsold, yet you cannot purchase one?
with regards to the estimated range, its often referred to as a guess-o-meter. the algorithm to determine estimated range considers battery capacity, rolling average draw (load), regen, accessories (air-con/heater) and historical data among other things. as the car gathers data, the guess is more accurate, however, outlier trips (a long drive in the country) may skew this data. it's essentially just guessing, because the car doesn't know how you're going to drive. the more consistent the trips you do, the more accurate the guess-o-meter will be
Yeah it's just the same with the displayed tank range in ICE cars. It's better off not to reset them, as you say, as in this video he didn't suddenly get a huge increase in EV range, he just had less of an idea of how far he'd get based on his typical driving. Funny how people really misunderstand this aspect of their predicted range - the clue is the word 'predicted' ;)
Also, outdoor temperature has a big impact on estimated range. The guessometer is a handy tool, but it should be used in conjunction with the actual battery percentage.
Great video Pete! We recently faced the dilemma of whether to go for an EV or petrol car. Honestly, it didn't take long to decide to go the petrol route; as much as I love EVs. Where we live (Western Australia), the infrastructure for public recharging is definitely lacking/inconvenient - at least compared to other fuel options. Not to mention, by the time one shells out for a high kW at home charger and the electrical side to go along with it, they're starting to get pretty darn expensive. One of my big concerns, is that the uptake of EVs is going to outstrip the capacity of the existing electrical infrastructure - both residentially and publicly. Given the relative snail pace of our infrastructure providers to respond to market conditions, I can definitely see the abolishment of off-peak tariffs as more and more people begin charging their vehicles overnight (ie. large increases in off-peak power draw); which will start to erode some of the cost savings. Similarly, I'm concerned that as EV uptake increases significantly, electrical infrastructure won't be able to physically keep up with this power delivery (substations; transmission lines), as aged/existing systems were never ideally designed to have such high power draws consistently from residential properties (eg. summertime with AC units running; EVs charging etc., the instantaneous power draw from a single residence could easily exceed 10kw; versus a more typical 2-3kw... that's a 2 to 3 fold increase in instantaneous power draw; and we already know how unreliable electrical grids are during peak summer/winter...). This isn't really a care/concern for the EV makers - they just make the cars; and it's our problem having to charge them... but in the long term, I can see this being quite costly to home owners/general public/tax payers, as the electricity/infrastructure upgrades cost money, and it has to come from somewhere...
Everything you're said is true. When the ID(3) was first featured on fully charged 4 or 5 years ago, I was super excited. I've had a Audi Q4 on order for nearly 12 months now. Since I've ordered it, the EV landscape has changed so much that I'm actually quite nervous about buying it. The cost to buy one is crazy. The current price of electricity has completely trashed all of the benefits of forking out for one and we haven't even got to the future tax implications. Overall the cost of ownership of an EV for your average driver probably doesn't make it worth it. In fact, in the current climate, I can quite easily knock up another spreadsheet that tells me to forget EV's and buy a petrol car instead. The price of sustainable electricity needs to come down urgently to make any of this work.
A gallon of petrol is currently approx. £7 with a petrol car lucky to see 40mpg in average conditions. If you didn't have an EV tariff and pay 35p per kWh. EVs do average 4 miles per kw easily in average driving conditions. You are getting 80 miles for £7. If you have an EV tariff that's 240 miles for £7. And the prices for an ev compared to a similar speced car with similar performance are similar if not less.
Electricity prices will settle down as we transition away from fossil fuels, also the power from my solar panels that I can use to charge my car still costs the same as it did before Putin invaded Ukraine. You are also ignoring the elephant in the room climate change. If we don't transition away from fossil fuels it will cost a lot more in the long run to keep driving a petrol or diesel car.
@@nervousfrog101 Where does one go to learn about the climate change topic? I hear a lot of people talking about it but am having trouble finding reliable/unbiased/evidentiary sources of information. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Cognitive_bias_codex_en.svg
You mention the price of *sustainable* electricity needs to come down, but wind and solar are already by far the cheapest sources of electricity and are only continuing to come down in price. It just takes time to build and install them. If we could snap our fingers and replace all electrical and fuel needs with wind and solar at today's prices we would all be paying substantially less for everything.
Huge swathes of this country have terraced housing with only on street parking. How infrastructure for that is safely tackled is a massive challenge. That is where there has to be either a leap in charging tech or an acceptance of hybrid and alternative fuels to move to net zero. This push for ev for all hasn’t been properly thought through
Completely agree. We bought a env200 van 18 months or 15000 miles ago. It's been an absolute joy to drive and does the local deliveries no problem. HOWEVER for longer trips that need a public charge, it's a nightmare. We had to cancel a delivery to Scotland as not a single fast charger in the area was working according to Zapmap. If we hadn't checked we would have been stuck up there for 6 hours on a slow one!!!. To cope with a swap to EVs and Heat pumps we would have had to start building a third more power stations and upgrading the supply network about 10 years ago. As there is still no sign of political leadership or practical answers to these massive issues I think the whole idea is doomed.
Maybe the folks in the US white House should watch this video and think thru it. Biden says all electric by 2035, yeah right. Green movement is ill conceived.
We should have had generating capacity in place 20 years ago! Burning Canadian woodchips to produce electricity is just beyond a joke. The idea that 2030 is achievable is so unrealistic that any politician would be mad to quote it.
@@rnf1227 but Gov will take ages to see it [and spend even more of taxpayer £££] espec after all the COPT27 BS and PM u-turned to actually attend. Also Charles inviting attendees to BuckHo meant even more private jet-miles - have they no F*ing idea ??
It was never " infrastructured" to survive. It's a distraction before they remove personal transport from the landscape. Go for a drivable historical vehicle , they will allow them after the shut down, as they own the majority ( as showpieces/ investments.
I'm the owner of an EV for 1 month, and totally agree with you on everything you have said. I would not even consider buying an EV without the possibility to have a Walbox on my own parking spot.
@@Elconbrioso Exactly. I believe that’s the point most people don’t get. Also, hunting for free quick chargers to get free energy could cost you more on the long term, since could lead to earlier battery failure.
@@Elconbrioso I don’t think it’s a maybe, I think it’s essential. If not possible due to access, then having a charger at work would probably be a good alternative. Two of my nearest neighbours have already got Tesla model 3s under their respective company car schemes and they both have charging at work already.
My VW diesel Golf estate is going to be on the road FOR EVER. Thousands of people live in multi-storey buildings or don’t have off street parking, they are being totally ignored by this green dream.
Yep, my scenario completely! A significant portion of the population live in flats not houses, where even if they do have parking, there are no chargers present. I'm sure this will change in time but looking at my own area as an example, it won't be any time soon!
That's because our Western societies are not based on need but on profit. China has no trouble selling their EV's (they have 10 Chinese companies and numerous foreign subsidiaries) and no problem outfitting multiple living buildings with chargers. I love our Western freedom but it is a terribly inefficient system to get things done properly.
@@steelcom5976 I beg to differ. China is having a huge problem selling its EV’s and they are dumping them on the world market cut price. Vehicle and battery factories are closing and thousands of workers are being laid off.
Hit the nail in the head! Huge issue facing us for electrical distribution. Solution will be SMR no other option to avoid distribution investment that cannot be accomplished, but challenge will be producing enough SMR systems for 2030.
Wonderful thoughts on the EV subject. We are being pushed to buy EV without the infrastructure to support it. Living in urban areas without off street parking is one issue, living In rural areas and taking a long ride has its issues as well. The vast majority is not ready for these vehicles, although I am grateful for all the Guinea pigs out there, testing and helping the manufacturers work out all the kinks. I’ll wait for 2035 to buy one. Thank you again for perspective .. spot on!
So that's like building wind and solar and also shutting off nuclear, hydroelectric, coal and gas ---you know, just assume everything will work. Europe, and Germany in particular, is showing how that tends to work in practice. Indeed, there is every reason to believe that a lot of EV users will not be able to charge their cars this winter. In the aftermath of the recent Florida hurricane, people have been unable to charge their cars for weeks.
I don't see anyone being "pushed" to buy an EV.. least not in my view. Are EV manufacturers "pushing" to sell their EVs?... WELL YES!! LOL! For the same reason Nestle "pushes candy in October! For same reason any business pushes anything. Nobody is forcing you to buy one just as Nobody is forcing you to buy a gasoline burning vehicle. You buy one because that's been basically our only option. Imagine if we'd been driving EVs all along and now out of the blue someone come up with the idea to sell you a gasoline fueled car as an option but their were no gas stations anywhere to speak of.. now the argument would be "their pushing gasoline vehicles on us".. NO THEY ARE NOT! lol! Don't want it?.. don't buy it. Don't want the latest smart 90" flat screen led their gonna try to sell you this Christmas?.. then don't buy it. The reality today is fuel is not only getting more and more expensive largely do to virtually zero regulation (in prices). Meanwhile the costs to just be of human existence is rising far faster than the wages we earn. Meanwhile is clearly evident that the climate issues we know with 100% absolute certainty exist and each year get worse and each year costs us more and more. And we also know that if our congress won't help us we do have increasingly more options to make better decisions that will help us in climate issues in the long run.. but will help us in the short run as well by almost negating our dependency of oil from our month to month expenses by simply switching to electric vehicles!.. if we can personally! We all have heard the question "what come first?.. the chicken or the egg"? ... we're in a similar dilemma with EVs.. there's a perception that we need more EV infrastructure before we can effectively get EVs on the roads. Meanwhile our congress or any private business can argue as to why we want EV infrastructure if there's no EVs to use them. It's a never ending death spiral if thats what you get stuck on. However it's clear... there is a HUGE demand and interest in EVs! And the more these orders are filled the more new interest will develop. There's nothing to prove this any different. I would know... been trying to get a Ford Lightning all year! Lol
@@TheProletariat. Well, that’s one man’s opinion and I respect that, but there are many ways that people can be “pushed” into doing something. A “soft” push can be just as effective as a hard push and governments are experts at doing just that. You will acquiesce either way and we’ll do exactly as we’re told - but you’ll think it’s your own decision. As for climate change, there’s an hypocrisy surrounding that. What we don’t do in our countries, others will double down in theirs, and that I know for sure. We can only hope for the best!! Cheers
@@PLaTerra yes there certainly is many ways someone can be persuaded.. convinced.. enticed.. lured.... and yes I suppose pushed.. but I just don't see people today being pushed to buy an EV. There are incentives to buy one! I suppose that could be viewed as a "push". But certainly not like your being forced. But.. times change.. fuel is expensive and oil companies are getting away with it despite all the people complaining. I'd have zero issue allowing the folks who want to burn gas continue to do just that. But as demand falls the corporate powers at be will cut production to maintain high profit margins.. you just won't win. It will get even more expensive to burn gas in years to come. I'd rather wash my has of it! Eventually you will too and many more will follow. But we need reviews like this to get us there! Because these problems with charging is not attractive to many.. or just not possible for many
Here in US we have lots of full-sized pickup trucks. I use and actually need mine on almost a daily basis even though I'm retired and don't use it for work. A hobby I have requires that I pull a 16ft enclosed trailer and we all know about the recent test someone did where the pickup with a trailer only got about 85 mile range. I can only imagine what it would be like if you were driving in a state with mountains like Colorado. Occasionally, I take my trailer on longer trips which would reall suck if I had to stop every 85 miles. So, for the range problem alone, I don't see this as a practical solution even for 2030.
Good video talking about some of the realities that a lot of people gloss over when talking about EVs. I love the idea of an electric car, and probably more than 90% of my driving could easily be done with one that has a 150km range. I also live where having a charger at home wouldn't be an issue. However, I did the math a few years ago to see if I could save money by buying an ev, and the answer was basically no. I drive a used Ford Focus, and like it enough I'd buy another, and conveniently enough I could have bought one then that was either gas or electric powered. The electric version cost nearly double what the gas version cost, and I would have had to drive about 320,000km to save a penny with the electric. Now that gas prices have gone up a bunch, that would drop to about 250,000km to break even. So as a purely money saving measure, it doesn't make sense for me to buy a new EV over buying a new gas car, and factoring in that a used gas car with about half its serviceable life left is about 1/4 the price of a new one, an EV makes even less sense.
There are other 'sudden' costs, from what I see. A lot of the first-generation wall chargers are not up to scratch, so users are being encouraged to install the latest models which are faster/more efficient/easier to use, and other handy sales pitches.
I appreciate you ding this video, because the biggest challenge people like myself seem to face is actually trying to discuss these things. Many EV owners seemed to have positioned themselves on a lofty perch and won't listen to the rest of us because they're saving the planet and the rest of us don't matter. WE automatically become lesser mortals because we still drive an ICE car. As soon as you say anything even slightly negative they're either on the defensive, defending anything and everything about them, or they're on the attack and the rest of us don't know what we're talking about because we don't own one. Anyway, here goes.... For me you've hit the nail on the head. The fact that the vast majority of people do not buy new cars and can not afford to buy an EV is a big issue, but the number one problem is that almost half the population don't have a driveway or garage. Try to discuss this with an EV owner and the general response is something like "not our problem, if you can't accommodate an EV then you can't have a car because the government says so and you're killing the planet". But the other major point until now is cost. "They're cheaper". No they're not, you pay more to buy them in the first place and if you don't have your own home charging facilities, as we all know (but EV owners won't accept, not least because they won't consider the initial purchase cost), they're no cheaper to run than a diesel car. There are other cost issues too, they're more expensive to insure (I believe the Tesla Model 3 is the highest group, way higher than my Jag XF), they more likely to be scrapped after an accident because of the repair costs, especially if the batteries are involved - even a cracked battery casing can see a car scrapped - which means as insurance companies spread the cost we're ALL paying higher premiums as a result, so thanks for that EV buyers. And parts that may fail, although there are fewer of them, are also expensive - motors, touchscreens, and so on. But few people ever mention the fact that they're cheaper to run because the "fuel" isn't taxed in the way that fossil fuel is, so as you have rightly pointed out when that balance is redressed the chances are they will actually be even more expensive to run than ICE cars. In fact the more you look at it, the more it looks like they're trying to force people off the roads because if you add the extra costs back into the EV equation even fewer people will be able to afford to own one. All this is on top of the other problems they create, problems that according to EV owners don't exist of course so I'm not going to waste my time with them, but for me the only chance we have of retaining any choice is to reject EVs en masse. Of course, if you can afford all that you won't care about the rest of us.
They are not for everyone and each country is different. I owned an Audi Q5 diesel from 2019-2022 before purchasing my Tesla Model 3 (different car completely I understand) but could apply in most part to a Model Y. I owned the car for 3 1/2 years and put 76,000 km on the clock (just over 47k miles). I spent $A6,600 in services, $A3200 in tyres and consumables and $A12,800 in diesel. That was $22,600 (12,000 pounds) or roughly 30c per km / 25.5p per mile. The car cost $92,000 (48,700 pounds). (cars are cheaper in Aus) I sold it an bought a Model 3 which uses 117 Wh/km or 188wh/mile to drive the exact same routes and I pay 26c per kw/h (14p), there are no scheduled services ($0 so far), I am on original tyres after 25,000km (15.5 k mi) I estimate 40,000km or 25,000 mi for the change at $1600 (850 pounds). It cost $A60,000 (31,600 Pounds). I could have the equivalent model Y which is larger than the Q5 for $65,000 (34,500 pounds) with very marginally more consumption, so even adding 20% to account for the larger car in the model Y that works out to be 8.4c per km / 7.2p per mile (less than 1/3rd the operating cost) for a car that costs $27,000 (14,000 pounds) less upfront, with better performance and much greater convenience than the Q5. I understand you can't yet do this with cheaper cars with no home charging, and maybe that's your point, is it makes a whole lot of sense for people who have a house and can afford a $95k (50k pound) car in the first place. (BTW the insurance is cheaper on the Tesla even pro rata per insured $) but cheaper EV's will come, they will be cheaper than the equivalent ICE cars in the not too distant future, access to charging will come, there are more charging / refuelling options already today for EV's than the petrol car owner had in the 1940's, that changed post war, just like it will with EV infrastructure.
@@ronskancke1489If we take a snapshot in time yes most EVs are charged using fossil. However if we take a snapshot in time in 15 years the reverse will be true. The transition is in it's very early stages and most people against EVs don't take this into account.
The EV's use equivalent amount of fossil fuels from builds to charging electricity made with fossil fuel up until 200K miles. So that knocks them off their perch .
Really appreciated your thoughtful comments. Here are some about my circumstances and the problems I face. I am the Body Corporate Chairperson of a 30-yo apartment building in Brisbane, Australia. Luckily, the EV take-up in Australia is slower because we are such a large country (the size of continental USA, with a LOT of desert in the middle). Also, there has been little Government incentives for EV adoption. The challenges of reverse-engineering our 20+-storey, 100+ apartment building for EV uptake are like you said, but on steroids. The biggest risk is that someone will try to install charger for their spot in the common area, then another, then another, .... The result will not have any standardisation, overall load balancing or total draw regulation, and will make it impossible to then implement infrastructure to manage load in the context of not only EV demand but also the normal residents' demands for the power used by their apartments. As yet, we have no idea of the capacity of the cable into our building, nor the electrical supply authority's ability to deliver power through it in context of other loads in the high-density area we live in. There are multiple solutions being proposed for our building, but only the expensive options take into account overall building demand (i.e. including the normal apartments' requirements). There were concerns that residents might try and charge their vehicles from normal 10A 230v 3-pin sockets in common area, using power paid for by all residents. Thus there's the question of how to recover the electricity costs on a user-pays basis and who manages the cost recoveries. For now we have had to implement a By-Law that says something like "The charging of electric vehicles in the scheme is prohibited". That, in turn, has a increasingly-deleterious effect on resale values of apartments. Not an easy situation. We can alleviate it by investing A$100,000 or more in a proper infrastructure that takes into account ALL of those concerns. It can be done, but then we face the question of an aging resident population who will probably make their existing car "go the distance" and really not be interested in making an investment of the required magnitude. For example, I would LOVE to have an EV, but I have a 2010 German 5-door car that does everything I want, with a 3.0 TDI engine that achieved 5.2 litres per 100KM on the motorway today (and 7.3 litres/100K live-to-date), has done only 113,000 Km in 12 years and is in great condition By the time it hits 200,000Km, I will be well over 80 years old. Why should I want to invest in a full EV infrastructure re-fit (and I am an early-adopter of technology and am a leading proponent)? I am not planning on selling the apartment, so why make the investment? I suspect I am typical of our residents. No easy answers yet - so we will just wait and see. Maybe Hydrogen power will win?
Great video👍1/ If EVs were such a great idea, there would be no need for a cut-off point for ICE cars, people would be falling over one another to get one. 2/ You're spot on regarding the loss of taxes to the government & I think this will be overcome by road pricing (pay by the mile) in the future. 3/ Be very, very wary about anything that the government is pushing, it usually turns out to be a bad deal! i.e. Being told (by the then Labour government) that the way to go was diesel, it being better for the environment🙄
My wife & i have bought a renault zoe as a second car runaround (we still own a petrol SUV). We have 2 options within 1 mile of our house to fill up for FREE at 22kW speed (We live in Scotland). We are very lucky in this respect and i know not many places available to do this in the UK. In the zoe this is basically 1/2 tank in 1 hour or full tank in approx. 2hrs ish (giving 100 /200ish city miles of complimentary driving ...in summer at least). We dont do that many miles per week so this is more than enough. One of the chargers is on my way to the gym so i can stop off there once a week and walk to gym and then come back and im done charging for the week without range anxiety always in the back of our minds. We didnt bother to instal home charger as at the moment we dont need one. We are actually starting to use our zoe for as greater percentage of our driving as possible because it is essentially free fuel motoring. Its become a fun challenge. We even got 2 push bikes in the back for a weekend away recently. I think large charging stations at places like gyms and supermarkets may be the answer for flat owners etc. with speeds of charge getting faster 20 min shop will be enough to get a good range in the tank. The problem, as mentioned in the video is that the costs of charging your car varies so much at public stations. If u can charge for 7p overnight at home and pay 5% VAT only (versus 20% VAT at public charger) seems no brainer. I sometimes think of it in relation to filling at a gas station. You wouldnt find shell charging 50p per litre and BP charge £2 per litre. maybe needs regulation if government are really wanting a clean energy shift away from petrol/diesel
You are so right. Already in California, Edison charges upwards of $0.70 kWh if you don't want to suffer without AC between 4pm and 9pm. At $0.70 kWh, this makes most EVs really get around 20mpg. And more likely that electricity prices will continue to rise much faster than gas. It already has over the last decade.
If Robert is paying .70 he's on the wrong rate plan. I live in a valley in So Cal (it's hotter here) & SCE charges a *max* of .59 during *peak* time. It's only .27 per kWh overnight, which is when most of us would charge the car.
So glad your raising this issue Pete, I actually tried an electric car for around 6 months. However I’m in the camp where I don’t have access to a home wall charger. Our street is completely off street parking so my only option was a granny cable out the window and hoped no one tripped over it and wait a day for it to charge or use public infrastructure. The likes of InstaVolt are now charging 0.66p per KWH, with a usable battery of 72 KWH, if I was filling up from almost empty (with a little in reserve for emergencies) it was costing me approximately £45 and with the car only getting around 250 miles per charge as a lot of my journeys are motorways or A roads at 60 mph (I live in the Cotswolds and as you will know everything is spaced out) it just wasn’t cost or time efficient. I spent some nights at 10pm waiting for over an hour for the car to charge to make sure I had enough charge in it for whatever journey I had to do the following day or two. I had also looked in to the possibility of getting a driveway installed and asked permission to get a dropped curb from council but was rejected due to our road having something called covenant which basically forbids anyone in our road from having driveways… So the electric car had to go, back in to a brand new F40 135i and I don’t regret it. I’m getting 40mpg on my commute to work so it works out the same kind of cost without the hassle of charging. This is a topic that need a LOT more debate as the Government have not taken this in to account 1 bit. If and when I can have a wall charger I wouldn’t hesitate to swap back to an electric car, but without its hassle and as or more expensive then fuel.
I have none of those issues. I park it in our garage or under the car port and charge it; outlets a few feet away. Costs about $1.50 in electricity for 36 mile round trip.
"my only option was a granny cable out the window and hoped no one tripped over it" ..... where there's blame, there's a claim. Another issue no one's discussing. Just sayin'!
@@glossypeacock7552 That’s my point exactly. I didn’t do it for the exact reason you stated. I lay a cable across the path to charge my car, a school child walking home from school or a dog walker out at night and they fall and god forbid break their hip or something serious it would of been my neck in the loop. I live in a quiet road with no through road, it’s a dead end at the end of the road (unless you carry on in to the farmers field full of sheep and I couldn’t get permission for a wall box from my council and I was prepared to do it properly get the required permits etc have a driveway laid etc. I hate to think about all the people that live in flats or high rise buildings with literally no hope. Government needs to get a grip. Then again they’ve not got a grip with sod all at the moment so…. Who knows, but for now, for me and my circumstances ICE power is the only way. We also have zero public transport. Have a station but only 2 trains a day stop there just for the commuters in to London or Oxford but that’s your lot, no busses and forget a taxi. If you ask for a taxi to my village most taxis will say either never heard of the place or not going there….
@@Theurgicnick Hi Nick and thanks for your full and considered response. Apologies, my comment was not directly aimed at yourself, just a generalisation. We all know the zero level of consideration for pedestrians that some entitled people will display when charging their vehicle on-road and we all know the number of scam merchants there are out there who will manage to present a litigation case however considerate you have been with your on-road charging. A double whammy which, as previously stated, is not being discussed at this time. Have a great weekend!
It's dead simple ........THEY DO NOT WANT YOU TRAVELLING, its as simple as that ! Work from home order shopping it'll come to you,use the transport they offer only ! It's not even good for the environment,synthetic fuel is the way !
Thanks for telling the truth. I can't make the EV work financially no matter what I do. The "incentives" and "tax breaks" will all evaporate once they get us all transitioned to EV. What will be the option? There won't be one. You'll do what they say, and like it. They know what's best.
In Germany there are a total of 90,000 public charging points. (85 million ppl). Tax on energy, regardless of source (petrol/diesel/gas/electric, is currently around 55%.
I’ve had an EV for the past 5 years and I’ve always lived in an apartment. The charging infrastructure has been steadily growing over the years in Luxembourg where I live. I had to do a lot of planning around charging, especially with my previous BMW i3 with the 33kw battery. Since then, things are a lot better as far range is concerned and I’ve only experienced anxiety once in my new Kia Soul. For me the thing is planning. I know a lot of people just want to get in and go but by living with a smaller battery for a few years, I leaned on using navigation and charging apps so that charging was never a big issue. Knowing I can switch to Eco plus to save energy and get there a few minutes later or knowing that a certain part of my trip is mostly down hill and I only use a quarter of the range normally required is all part of learned strategies in EV ownership. Also since I use public chargers I track my cost and except for road trip fast chargers my costs are a lot less than my friends gas car for the same distance (.06 vs .085 euros per kilometer, based on last road trip). Also for 90% of my driving, I’m in the city so my car charges overnight (cost is by kw and not charged by time connected) at a local 24hr free parking garage, where the government just installed 65 22kw chargers. (Luxembourg also has free public transportation) This was a long post and I didn’t get into the gas tax revenue problem but EV ownership is doable for apartment dwellers.
Great post but in the UK the public charging network bump up the price if your car is connected over a certain time, so overnight charging will cost so much money. Although 8t seems harsh I think it's done so that you free up the charger for someone else to use which isn't a bad thing
You're a lucky one, there is a single public charger in town here (for 7000+ inhabitants), and I have never seen anyone use it, so I don't know if it even works. This mean I will try to keep my little Fiesta for as long as possible.
Good to hear these issues being discussed. I drive a hybrid Outlander. About 70% of my driving is on EV - even though it has a tiny range of 20-30 miles. My commute is 20 miles and I charge at work to come home. Even with my small 9.8KW battery it uses about the same amount of electricity as the rest of my house - so based on my average commute if we all had EV only - twice the amount of electricity generation capacity would be needed. Apart from the chargers at work I mainly charge at home as the public chargers are expensive. At least I don't have range anxiety as I alway have petrol in the tank and can fill up more if needed. May be plug in hybrids should be considered as an option instead of just EV only in the future.
I agree with the hybrid option! I live in an apartment building with no plug so no PEV for me but I and do HEV (Looking at the new 2023 Prius Hybrid AWD which does 50mpg).
I have always thought about the same thing every time I pull into a service station on my way up to Scotland. I drive a petrol car and I only stop for a break but if in the future everyone has an EV and it still takes an hour to fully charge, I dread to think about the queues and amount of congestion at these services.
Don't forget you can only stop at the services for 2hrs, some more some less but if there's a queue and you have no range then add the £100 fine for overstaying on top. It's happening now and being reported on daily
@@garyhall3835 Depending on the country thats a rare case... Its not 2013 anymore... Unless youre one of the guy living in bumfuck nowhere than you might have a keg to stand on. 👀
@@samusaran7317 I drive a diesel 7 seater, I'm not against ev but I don't have parking space and can't have a wall box but in the motorway service stations in the UK it's not uncommon to have 5 ev charge stations and that's it, always a queue. Tesla superchargers are plentiful and mainly always have space. The parking limits are standard across all motorway service stations, 2hr maximum wait for free after that £100 fine in the mail
I drive an EV in the US. Almost always, you are charging at home, so the question is moot. But charging up at a Supercharger on the road is at most a 30 minute process. And that is coming down as the newer chargers come online.
Great video sir. You made some great points and you are 100 percent correct on the home charging. We recently had a Mach E as a loaner car from the dealer and obviously I don’t have the means to charge at home. It was a total disaster. The charging stations near my home were very very slow or non functioning. My second thought was also something you mentioned on price per kilowatt. My belief, here in the U.S. anyway, is that when the majority of people are forced to swap and become dependent on the EV cars, are they going to jack the prices way up making ownership just as expensive as owning a gasoline or diesel fuel automobile? I think if you currently own an EV, enjoy it while you can.
$8k an electricians quote to upgrade & install a Level 2 charging unit in my garage That's it no EV 4 me my house was built in the 60s needing the upgrades overnight home charging was the only thing that made sense & I'm not going through the anxiety of an hour to charge at stations that may or may not be working properly the nation's infrastructure is not ready for EVs
Thank you! You've laid a hand on my shoulder, slowed me down, and given me enough to think about, leading me to not rush out to buy an ev for some time--although I'm now 83 years old. Public transit in Montréal is excellent.
As I am nearly 80 Douglas, are you as pleased as I am that we will not be around to see the problems that will arise in the 2040s if the EV solution to everything keeps on being pushed down our throats!
Talented: if I was back in a city, I would not have a car. Unnecessary expense. When I was living in a major city I had a car but that was because of my job which sent me off to businesses many miles (sometimes100s) away. But it was expensive and I had to jockey around to park, worry about vandalism etc. Be happy that Montreal has great services - the more they are used, it helps pay for it. 😎🐈⬛👍
I have a EV and a home charger and I love it, but you are right about people who don’t have this it will be a complete nightmare for them! I too have not had to use a public charger yet as I charge from home and go. Great video 👍
Our electricity rates have gone through the roof over the past few years. I have a Mazda6 2.2L diesel and plan to keep it a long time. I'm aretired electrician and still don't want an electric car. Great points you raise!👍🍻🤔
@@thejdgoodwin I'm cobbling together a very DIY, Heath Robinson solar system, and it is not cheap. Absolutely not an option for many. Though I think the "how long until it pays for itself" obsession is nonsense. The first time I can have hot food after an earthquake or typhoon is when it's "paid for itself".
I feel like you have channeled my thoughts. I drive a Gen1 Fiat 5ooe, which, at best has a 70 mile range going downhill with a tail wind. I live in a Flat without parking, which means no wall box or even Level 1 charging availability. My daily commute is only 7 miles each way, but San Francisco is famous for its terrain of steep hills. In the morning commute, I gain back all of my used range because of regen braking and a downhill direction. However on the return trip, I loose 25 miles in range due to the steep terrain and fierce winds. No one ever told me that EV range isn't linear; temperature, terrain and speed all impact it. I have to charge every second day, and spend a lot of my time looking for a charger that is available, working and or not defective. Sadly, I'm thinking of going back to an ICE vehicle, because even if I sell the Fiat for a new Kia, or Hyundai EV, I'm still going to live with that ever present range anxiety.
How far would you go in South Dakota when the temp is -25 and the next charging station may be over 200 miles away. You will probably die of hypothermia before you have enough juice to drive 20 miles.
Range anxiety and driving around looking for a charger would slowly drive me nuts. The constant nag of wondering if I dare use the car just in case I get stranded without charge is enough to put me right off getting an EV.
@@andyhowlett2231honestly, that’s not the way it works out at all. Range anxiety is a myth - it’s no different from making sure you have enough petrol- but you do need to do a little extra planning to ensure that there is charging available if you’re going on a long journey. That said, people here are doing 250km+ journeys on one charge with no drama whatsoever. It definitely is a little more hassle than driving a petrol car, but if you have home charging your ‘fuel’ costs are much less - £5-10 for 300 miles, far less parts than an ICE, & a generally quicker, quieter & more responsive drive. Of course, you have to pay for a home charger, but in that case, you have your fuelling done at home.
@@andyhowlett2231idk why that is such a panic for you. By time everyone gets an EV, ranges will be between 300-350 miles. In the future chargers will be all over the place because they are building hundreds more nationwide as we speak, so why worry about this at all? Driving an EV will be almost as easy as driving a gas vehicle. The cold does not effect your EV as much as people say it does
My brother has a Chevy Bolt and a charge station at home. He pointed out to me that, living in Canada, the range changes significantly depending on the season. In the dead of our winters a lot of the stored energy needs to go just to keep you comfortable in the cabin, else you freeze. For this reason they have a gas (petrol) truck for travelling distances and try to keep the Bolt for shorter commutes because you can't trust the range when you start out.
@@tyronenelson9124 My Bolt charges perfectly fine in the winter, even below 0 degrees F (-18 C). Apparently, GM is better at engineering vehicles than Dell.
Also, the heat and humidity if you live in Southern United States where you have to run A/C. Plus, the battery gets hot and can be a charging issue from what i have seen on other TH-cam videos.
Took a while to get to the points but when you got there they're all spot on and something I have been saying too for a while. For me the ev is still pointless. I have off street parking and could charge at home but I only do 3000 miles a year at most. My old V6 Merc is doing no harm to anyone, even my bank account.
What you said about the power needed to each street is exactly right. Most people don't understand just how much the infrastructure would need upgrading if everyone went to an EV, you would have to dig up nearly every street in the country, and you would need millions of tons of copper.
It’s not just the digging up of the streets most domestic properties have single phase supplies, to cope with EV charging and heat pumps etc the house would need to be changed over to a three phase supply. New supply cable to house along with new consumer unit and re configure house wiring a huge undertaking. The sad thing is the vocal minority who are steering the spineless clueless politicians down a path to economic disaster all suffer from the same symptom, ignorance is bliss until the reality sinks in ?.
Great video. You have highlighted everything I have been telling my friends about the forthcoming, but as yet undiscussed, EV issues. Anyone remember when we were all encouraged to go LPG? Burns far cleaner than petrol or diesel, fills up the tank only a little slower, ICEs performed very similar on LPG to petrol, and it was half the cost. People paid thousands to get their cars converted and then the government loses interest. I can run on petrol or LPG, but I no longer have an LPG supplier in my area... just great! I personally wouldn't trust a thing that the government or the mainstream media ever says. Lies, bullshit and propaganda... in your heart's you all know that EVs will be just as costly to run as fossil fuels once they are the majority of road users.
Very good points. I’m an American that owns a Chevy Bolt EV. We have 120v consents here, although you can get 240v consents installed easily enough. Most people with enough cash to buy a new electric car here have their own garage in which to park and charge their cars, so it is less of a problem here (my car, which is four years old, does not even have fast charge capability). My sons live in flats, one has a charging station and the other does not, so it it would be difficult for them, even the one with the charging station, to own an EV. But I, like you, really love mine. I have a RAV4 hybrid when I need to go long distances, but even at 120v, I can recharge overnight since we rarely drive more than 75 miles per day. Good discussion!
As electricity prices soar and supply reliability diminishes, you also have the cost of charging at home which is not cheap and will only get worse, if you are luck enough to have a home charger and garage. Most people today cannot afford a home and garage.
Don’t those refineries and gas pumps run on electricity too? The extra costs are handed down to the consumer, gas doesn’t get any cheaper. Maintenance of the vehicle is next to nil on a Tesla. My RAV4 isn’t as cheap. It isn’t just about gas prices.
Perfectly summed up. All the points that you made about EV ownership are ones that I thought about as I was due to change my car earlier this year, as the PCP deal came to an end. Thankfully, I realised that without access to a home charger that changing to an EV would be a bad move, so I kept my diseal car and I'm very happy with it!
Also, let's not forget that government officials can simply "turn off" any electric vehicle at any time, should they deem it necessary. The technology is there to do so. Imagine if you're stuck in a snow storm and your local political tyrant decides to remotely switch your EV to off. Or, what if you're late on your payments by a day or two? So much for freedom.
Excellent video which highlights the issues of which us EV owners are aware. I live in rural France and in a recent visit to the UK I formed the opinion that the charging infrastructure in the UK is falling behind the game compared with mainland Europe. Here I have five public chargers within five kilometres of my rural home but I struggled to find that many on the M25! 😂 I haven’t bothered with a 7kw home charger for my Kia eNiro at home as I am retired and don’t use the car every day so leave the car plugged in to the 2.1 kw charge for overnight cheap rate charging. I wonder if the UK government will outlaw home fast charging points to deal with the electricity demand issue.
7kw home charger is not fast, if we had to downgrade to a 2.1kw it would take ages to charge up, in the UK overnight electricity tariffs are only cheaper on dedicated eV tariffs, and even then only for about 4 hours, so at 2.1kw that time frame is not enough, and this is from an ev owner on that tariff.
@@rickster30 Indeed, for a four hour charge on a 7KW home charger, you can put 28Kw/h maximum into your car. Just multiply the Kw power of the charger, by the number of hours of the charge, and that's the Kilowatt hours which has been put into your car. Most homes like mine probably would not be allowed to install two 7Kw wall boxes, as our incomng power connection won't support those, and other possible things. We are also connected to the same overhead main cable as next door too. This means we can't upgrade to 100 amps without it costing us a small fortune. So, if we had two EVs (rather than one EV and one diesel car) we would have to share that 7Kw cheaper rate power by charging each car on alternate nights. That's no good at all if both of us want to do a fair bit of separate trave!ling around at the same time. For the dark dull sunless days (we have solar and a battery) the home battery is charged around the same time as the car, overnight and the washer goes on if needed. That's about 13.5 KW of power (56 amps at 240 volts) being pulled from the grid at some points. Starts are delayed slightly to avoid surges! Adding Another 30 odd amps for a second wallbox could blow our 80 amp service fuse fo sure!
@@rickster30 You are of course right about the 2.1kw thing but I was just speculating on what the UK government may do in the circumstances Pete outlined. For reference, a full charge for me at home on cheap rate night electricity currently costs about 8 Euros.
@@tidfordjunction The grid should have no issue if everyone stays within the maximum power limits of their homes.. when you charge with 7Kw during the night, not much else is happening and demand for electricity is low, so should be no problem to have two cars at 7Kw each within the same home... Having smart chargers, like a zappi, would help a lot to keep everything within the limits... you do not have to charge at 7Kw all the time, can be less if needed and still wake up with a full battery in each car.
A recent video described an EV drive from Germany to England. At his European stops it seemed all charging stations were on line. Also notice that they were all sponsored/owned by Shell Oil. On reaching home soil in England it was a real drop off in availability, mostly because of off-line issues.
You're correct that if you live in a flat or have no parking at home its a different problem -although other countries outside the UK seem to be addressing this by investment. The other point about keeping your EV charged I think is less valid because in the last six months we have had a large number of very high speed chargers (250-350 kWs) installed within 20 miles of our house and this is happening all over the UK (finally!) This means if you keep say 30 miles of charge in your car you can get to any of these easily and my car will charge from 20-80%in just over 10 mins which is not much longer than stopping at a busy petrol station to fill up.
EV 's are a lose lose situation in many ways. Eco warriors preach about small changes in lifestyle, but it is far more complex than that. You are absolutely spot on with the points that you mention here, I have had many conversations on this subject. The average family can't afford a new electric car, and the old ones in their price range are well used and have depleted range so need charging more often, and not everyone can charge from home. The Government made us accept jobs many miles away from home, and threw in very unsociable hours on top of that, so I definitely need a car to get there as public transport which will be far too expensive then is not even running at the times I need to travel. We lead very busy lifestyles with family responsibilities, so sitting at the side of the road every day charging is a big ask when you need to be somewhere for family. You mention tax, yes it has to come from somewhere, and it will be the same road tax rebranded as Eco tax, also home electricity will be split and whatever your home charger uses will be calculated at a higher rate than the rest of your home appliances. They think we are all stupid, but they do this every time, tell us diesels are cheap and cheerful so we all buy them, then increase the road tax and put the price of diesel above petrol. It is my opinion that they are just trying to price the lower classes off the road, telling them to use public transport instead, as I said in my case that is just not possible, and it will be very expensive too so struggling families may not be able to afford to travel to work so will be out of a job. Cars will end up like Concorde, a rich persons toy.
EVs will soon be cheaper to manufacture than gas cars. The cost has already plummeted. The only thing keeping prices high right now is that supply can't keep up with demand, so car companies boost the price until pre-orders get under control. You can't blame car companies for charging what they do if there's a six-month backlog at the current price. Saying no one is buying EV's because they're too expensive reminds me of the Yogi Berra quote "No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
@@truhartwood3170 How will it be cheaper to dig up the 500,000lbs of earth for the minerals necessary for one battery. Dug up, not by EVs but diesel powered machines. How sustainable is that?
@@lancastrian413 that’s the dirty little secret of ev batteries; they’re super expensive, their cost won’t go down over time, but will go up, and they destroy the environment.
All extremely good points and ones that I've been pondering and posing here and on other channels. As for the Mach E, don't confuse the range - which is a forecast - with actual range. By resetting the system you don't actually gain any real-world range, in fact you're likely to fool yourself into running out of electrons on a long journey by thinking you have more than you actually do.
You make a really valid point about what happens to people without their own charging station. But the infrastructure required to generate and deliver is a more critical point. Take the miles/kWh times the average miles driven by everyone in Britain - and ask where those XWatts (it's a very large number) is going to come from. And that's just for passenger cars - what about larger vehicles. I think someone is trying to legislate away supply and demand. (We have the same issue in the US.)
Hi Pete. Very informative chat. Living in Canada. West coast. I have a Tesla model Y. 2024. And my daughter drives a Fiat 500e. With our schedule and lifestyle. For now. We’ve been just using the level 1 wall outlet charging. And it works fine for us. For daily use. It charges up to our commute range daily no prob. Now. If I’m going on a long trip. Usually you plan trips ahead. I would leave it charging to 100% on my long range model Y. Which would get me around 308 miles/496kms. So not always necessary to have a level 2 charger. Could plug in at work too if needed. As for taxes. That’s a given. That revenue will always comes from area of convience. Driving is convience. So is Starbucks coffee. People will always tolerate paying the tax for convience. My take is, if all the elec cars are plugged in. And it’s staining the elec grid. Maybe one day. The government would subsidize solar panels on each home. Or a rebate plan. Yo eaze the load on the power grid.
Hi Pete, If everyone had EVs and you were to stand and count the cars that go through a garage every hour that's how many charging points you will need, in fact you will need more because those cars will be stuck there for an hour. A the infrastructure will not cope and as you pointed out tax will rise on EVs making them uneconomical. Even some manufacturers are having second thoughts
One issue with your comment regarding counting cars going thru a filling station and claiming that is the amount of charge points that would be required! You obviously didn’t listen to his comments that he had a home charger and in fact the vast majority of EV users at this time do have home chargers. Take that factor into your thinking and now work out that if 95% of EV users have home chargers that is going to make a big factor in who will use a public charger so you would have to reduce your calculation by some considerable degree as most of these EV users are only gong to use a public charger on very rare occasions I personally have been using an EV for 3 years and Rarely use a public charger, I would estimate less than 10 times in a year. As the transition to EV starts to move on more people that do not have the ability to charge on their driveway will increase but street chargers are expanding and car park chargers will also expand. New builds of more than one dwelling are now required to have a certain degree of EV spaces within the residence car parks. As regulation moves forward there will need to be expansion of destination chargers as well as route chargers.
@@brianstevenson9967 So where is this power going to come from? The wind doesn't blow all the time and the sun shines less than 50% of the time. If your answer is not nuclear you are just barking up the wrong tree.
@@brianstevenson9967 Brian: do you drive an EV? How many miles of driving per hour do you get from a home charger? I ask because I've heard it pretty low. Also, if you don't have a garage and have an outside charging station on your house, do you have any problems with other people using your electricity for free?
@rickraber1249 my EV does 4 miles to the kwh as an average over the year. My tariff has a 7 hours cheap period @ 9p per kwh. So my charger could in theory put in 49kwh into the battery, which is 196 miles. And you can normally stop folk using the charger by putting a pass code in.
Hi mate, work in the fire service. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned alot is when two lithium battery power cars crash and go on fire. The lithium batteries take hours to make Safe. We have attended one house fire and the garage went on fire with a electric car inside(charging did not start fire) it took longer than expected to control the fire and to make Safe. Just putting it out there for thoughts/experiences
but what was the cause of the house fire? The EV? EV charger? or was it unrelated, but they happened to have an EV? It might take longer to extinguish, but people and the media would focus on the EV being involved in the structure and being the cause
@@BreakingWildGaming Doesn't matter how it started, if the battery takes "hours to make safe", that engine is tied up there and not responding to other fires.
We live in the centre of a city and do not have easy access to a charger (and I drive a rather lovely 2008 4.2L Jaguar XK convertible). Our friends visited in their EV and to say they had range anxiety is a complete understatement! To make things worse, they had to stay an extra night, as they were worried their car would be blown over in the gale. No EV for me ever, that's for sure!
Pedro Loved the video , it really explored the problems facing full EV ownership going forward. I have owned a BMW I3 for 5 years ( 68 plate) and have just gone back to a petrol mild hybrid ( would have had a diesel like my previous mini d but could not get one).. I do have off street parking. I do have a 7kw charger. I do have solar panels, I can afford a new car over £30,000 . BUT I only received £9k part ex change for my I3 from a main dealer against a new £34000 car. because It only has under 3yrs battery warranty left !!!. this is the most catastrophic depreciation I have ever suffered, especially as I am retired and my total mileage was less than 23,000 miles in 5 years.. NEW EVs are to expensive for nearly all of my friends who tend to buy cars at 3yrs old for less than £25k, and they would not touch an EV with less than 5 years warranty!! so dealers offer super low part exchange as 2nd hand EVs are only going to become less desirable and worthless.. MY freind bought my 3 year old MINI d with 18,ooo miles on the clock. she fully expects it to last at least 10 years,, She would not even contemplate my I3 at £9k for a 5 year old BMW that cost £34,000 new
@@whocares264 and purchased a BRAND new car, which is totally environmentally unfriendly. What would be far better for the climate is to drive our old ICE cars until they are completely dead.
Had an online discussion with someone who must have been in NYC or LA while I'm from a large city in the center of the U.S. I have never even SEEN a charging station, this guy said they're everywhere. I'm in an apartment with unassigned outdoor parking, he said every apartment has its own charger. He's one of those people that think, "The whole world is exactly like what I experience." Different worlds dude, different worlds.
No charging stations in NYC that I know of.
He stated he is in the UK. Also, look at where the steering wheel is located. Steering wheels in US driven vehicles are on the left side, not the right. Charging stations in Europe are significantly more prevalent than the US.
@@vickimeyers2672 he was discussing a conversation he was having with another person, so his comments were valid. A problem with many EV owners and proponents of them is outlined in the video, and many people don't look further than today, as was said what happens after the honeymoon period?, the debate needs to happen now or we lose mass personal transport.
I live in NYC and have never seen an EV charger. Everyone I know who has an EV lives in the suburbs and own at least two cars. The 2nd car is always a gas car and is usually a Range Rover or other huge SUV.
nowhere to charge in apts. might be one or two outlets for one or two
cars. otherwise would have to run wires from inside apt. out the door
and / or window to the car. no way, forget that. and if there were a
bunch of EVs charging in an apt., it would overload the system, trip
the breakers, n power would go out.
Hi Pete, very informative video. My son recently purchased an EV as he lives on a small development with a wall charger. He discovered that the 7kw charger was only configured to 3.5kw. He challenged the developer who informed he that the Power supplier had requested this because if all the properties used an EV that the sub station would not be able to cope. We have a very long way to go before we are ready for EV’s.
3.5kW is still enough to replace your daily drive..
@@k_b7341
Depends on how much you drive in a day.
@@neilkurzman4907 with a 3.5kW charging possibility you can charge 35kWh in 10 hours. This will allow you to drive 100 miles per day - without visiting public chargers. That’s a pretty decent amount for a daily commuter.
If you have longer distances, you might have to pop into a public DC charger for 10 or 15 minutes - and you should be fine, too.
My brother has an EV and had a home charger properly installed in his garage (all done officially). It caught fire. Thankfully he was home and put it out but it had melted a load of wires throughout the house. Big expensive job to fix it.
@@jfro5867
If there are melted wires in the electric box, and then it wasn’t installed properly. The wire wasn’t the proper gauge for the circuit breaker.
Or the circuit breaker was defective.
A point to consider for those of us living in older streets of terraced housing is that, even if we could have a charge point of our own, we don't have any more right than anyone else to park outside our own home - unless it's a private road, or we have resident parking spaces (which are usually quite expensive). This country is still a long way off being prepared for "enforcement by stealth" EV ownership - unless that's part of the agenda whereby motoring will soon revert to being a privilege for the wealthy.
I think that is what some people want. The elite get to drive about and call themselves green, all the while the green movement become pleased that less people are driving. And the poor, well they can just sit at home or use overpriced, poor quality public transport. I have become convinced this entire movement is one of snobbery and elitism. It will determine votes in the future. It is why I suspect the 2030 ban on new IC engine cars is going to fall apart.
Also if you live on an older street then you could potentially damage the road in a couple years. On that note these lead foot drivers in Tesla's are ripping up tarmac as the roads can't cope with the torque
You have hit the nail on the head. That is the plan. Limited travel for the masses. I saw a YT on it
Jordan Peterson from Canada ❤❤❤
Do you think the smart meter will be able to decide what tax you will pay on your electric on your AV car
@@nickdaybyday Not just older streets, councils now spend as little as possible on repairs and use the cheapest materials so the repairs don't last very long. This will only get worse as more and more EVs are on the road.
In the Netherlands, you can go to the local government and apply to have a charger installed in the street where you live, close to your home.
There are already over 140.000 public chargers and that number doubles every 2 years.
In the USA our tax money goes to deadbeats, and wars we have no stake in.
At tax-payers expense...
@@silvanabaralha8665well, assuming someone can drive a car, they be paying taxes. So technically... getting your moneys worth 😂
@@lazygit5415 taxes never make your money worth.
Population of Netherlands: 18 million.
Population of United States: 330 million.
Just sayin.
Hi Pete--a very important aspect of EVs politicians totally ignore is the natural resources needed for a battery. There are only about 6 countries that have enough deposits of Lithium (and other resources) to keep the batteries running….and the UK and the US are NOT two of them.
At least with lead acid batteries the metals, sulfuric acid, and distilled water are readily available.
Apparently there is quite a lot of Lithium in Devon or Cornwall. The rare earth magnets (neodymium)will certainly present a problem.
@erin s. in addition to the lithium, cobalt etc the bulk of these batteries is the graphite anode. Much of the best "anode grade" graphite comes from oil residue. As with the other ingredients, there just isn't enough graphite - less so if it's burned first!
@@valleyofiron125 How common an element doesn't say anything about how easy it is to utilise. There has to be an energy profit to recovering the lithium because energy is the name of the game. Take the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen. It is devilishly hard to utilise as a fuel and a net energy negative. At best it is a battery of energy. You can easily harvest H from natural gas or other fossil fuel but if the object is to cut fossil fuel use then that is awkward. Distilling water is the other way of sourcing H but a horrific energy hog. That is the most abundant element in the universe but that doesn't describe its utility, or lack of.
@@bobbailey7024 since EVs are supposed to be so easy in the environment, check into how a lithium mine pollutes the environment.
@GENI, you mean Cobalt, but a lot of batteries don’t use Cobalt anymore however it is used to extract Sulphur from diesel
One thing that still bothers me about EV's is the assumption that life is predictable. I drive it, I take it home and charge it and as you said the next morning I'm ready to go. Life isn't always that predictable. You get back home, you've used most of your range and a family emergency etc. happens and suddenly you have no vehicle you can use immediately. The time to charge is still a huge drawback. They definitely have a place in the future but they can't be the total solution. Where I live in Canada we can get feet of snow in a short time and the winter temperatures could kill you if you had no power in the car and became stranded. I guess my point is don't treat them as a complete solution. They simply aren't.
The attitude is, "Take your sick child to the hospital in the bus, or call a cab!" LMAO.
Totally agree with you mr Freeky . What they should be doing is giving an incentive to people who own 2 cars to Change 1 of them for electric so you have a choice of transport , short journeys to work , d.i.y. store , shopping , school run etc , use the EV then on those occasions when a long run is needed use petrol car without the worry of charging on route .
I live in southern Ontario and the 400 series highways can be like parking lots even without an accident and being stranded. And as you say even worse if it's in very cold winter temps.
And if per say everyone on your block ended up getting one. Are the main transformers going to be strong enough to supply them all, if not no doubt there will be a huge increase in your monthly electric bill. Even if you don't have an EV vehicle.
Unfortunately most people have not really bothered to examine whether a "solution" is necessary. Beware of politicians calling for "solutions!"
The funny/ ironic thing about subsidies (tariffs) for "early adopters" is that they're just discounts for the wealthy. As prices become affordable for the middle class, the subsidies evaporate--and yet again, we collectively subsidize the wealth gap.
The "not-so-wealthy" people are typically not buying new cars, they go for used. And guess where they get their used cars from? Plus, the subsidy on a 70K pounds car will more than pay for itself just from VAT alone.
So if you look at it from this perspective, the whole subsidy story starts making a lot of sense. You kickstart the new technology, offsetting some of its costs. The wealthy people help driving it, offsetting the other part of the costs. Investors see that the government is serious about it, so new markets are opening - and thus they invest, to get their chance.
To summarize: the subsidy doesn't cost the government a lot, if anything at all. It sends proper signals to investors and researchers, and as a byproduct it will provide the second hand market with cheap used EVs. I believe that's actually exactly how it has to be done...
@@pqvid: Except that's not how pricing works. If the target market for Product X will pay price P, then the a subsidy (S) does NOT yield P - S for consumers, but P + S for sellers.
THAT is how subsidies work, with some slight marginal adjustments to compensate for the marginal costs to buyers and sellers to obtain the subsidy.
Oh so true
There is also the problem with public charge point and all the different apps you need to use them.
I don't need ESSO money to use an ESSO petrol station, I don't need special BP money to use a BP station.
There was on guy in the states who has 46 different apps on his phone so he can travel for his work.
Idiotic situation.
It will inevitably end up like solar . Get in 1st or miss out
All excellent points. The only certainty is that we will be paying more in the future, no matter what.
At a dealership this summer in Canada, a Mach E in GT trim had a price tag of $CDN88k. The petrol version, 5.0l V8 in GT trim was $CDN52K. I can buy a lot of petrol for the difference!!
The depreciation in value of these cars totally offsets any savings on fuel . They are a hole in the road to pour your money into . At this point , they are a scam .
@@sobeit1927 In the near future this will also be the case for the EV version. At the moment they are already piling up at the dealerships..
@@johndrawing1176This is what he means. That the EV's are depreciating so fast that they are the biggest loss of money.
@@sobeit1927 A "scam?" Dunn'o but the whole EV car thing seems on shaky foundations. My understanding, incomplete though it certainly is, is that the battery production is anything but nature-friendly. And when the car ages, what about battery replacement? How many $$$$?
Then there are the horror stories of water intrusion.
I am very unsure these are the way of the future. In any case, I am not going to be in the early adopter crowd for an EV.
@terrydanks Estimates of cost of battery replacement (parts and labor) is $7600 - $20,000 U.S. That in itself will absolutely kill any used car market if the the battery has less than half its life remaining. As I mentioned in a previous post, there is way too much uncertainty and possible heavy future expense with these full EV's. A hybrid though, for many people makes a lot of sense. Which is why I'm planning to buy one.
You are so correct with respect to the cost of a new EV being
out of reach for many of us. Also, the fact that the number one
issue with used EV's is the battery, and the batteries cost a fortune
to replace. I see the total cost of ownership of a new EV to be
a bit too high for many people. I know plenty of people who
find it a struggle to purchase some used car at $10,000 - $15,000.
Good luck finding a good EV with a battery that isn't getting ready to die
for that kind of cash. In fact, the price of all cars, both used and
new, has gone up so much this year that most people I know are just
refurbishing their present older cars. The price of a new transmission
or a good deal of engine work is not much more then the
sales tax on a new car these days.
They can push EV's till icebergs float in
Tampa Bay and if people just don't have the cash for one they
are not going to give up their old gas powered clunkers until they will
no longer move and parts are totally unavailable.
It's about time people realised what bullshit these ev s are, total and utter con.
Yep lol
I have had 2 EVs and am currently driving a Kona EV. Please understand that the range showing is calculated based on recent driving conditions - up hills, speed, temp, heavy foot etc. When you reset the trip history, then it assumes the best an most recent history - i.e. just a few seconds. That will change as you drive along. My Kona has averaged 4.8 miles/kw since since day one. My driving home today up lots of hills say 2.8 miles/kw. The driving uphill kills it. At freeway speeds, I average about 4.3 mi/kw. So 4.3 time 64 kwh in the battery gives me a range of 275 miles. At best, the range reading is simply saying that at the current conditions you can go about so many miles. I hope this helps.
Nope. They are not ‘about to die’. EV batteries will last longer than a petrol engine and, even then, are only down to about 80% capacity. You really do sound like someone who has done a lot of thinking, but not much research.
@@michaelmiller6593 There is far more to concern yourself with than that mate.
I can't charge at home and found your acknowledgement of the difficulties highly supportive. Thank you. If someone asked me to sum up my several years' EV driving experience in one word, I'd say 'unpredictable', and I'd also urge them *not* to become an EV driver unless they can charge at home. Thanks again.
and with home prices becoming more out of reach for people lol
Why on earth would you buy an EV if you can't charge at home?!??!
@@terrancedactielle5460 Because I want to drive one and I also want to do my bit for the planet.
@@avidviewer1 _I'd also urge them not to become an EV driver unless they can charge at home_ .....The problem is, the Gov is urging - nay - *forcing* us all to become just that! In 6½ yrs time, will we see blocks of flats with hundreds of mega-long extension cables hanging out of windows? (was gonna put a 'lol' on the end there, but it's really NO joke...the country isn't - nor will be, by the time it's upon us...READY for it.) Also as was mentioned in the video, just _where_ is the shortfall in fuel tax going to re-couped from? It's gonna be an expensive future....
@@avidviewer1 You're not serious are you?
Informative and timely comments Pete. Got my first EV, a Tesla recently on Wednesday afternoon and next day went to France on a 1300 mile road trip. No issues at all despite never having charged before. Tesla infrastructure and mapping is superb and all the charging bays I used were wide and would accommodate a wheelchair.
That’s why I opted for a Tesla..the total ownership package not just the car.
Been driving EVs since 2014 (BMW i3, Renault Zoe, Tesla Model 3, Volvo C40). Like you we are lucky enough to have a 7kW wall box. I completely agree with everything you said and honestly, I’ve made the same points to friends and colleagues if they ask me about EVs. The government is not governing this situation properly (mind you they are not really governing anything properly so what did we expect?!).
The best measure is
If a single supply can't deliver the capacity of 7kw X 1hr of charge "per car" on demand
The logical implication is deliver 7kw X Nhrs
THEN deliver 7kw X 1hr to each car.
In other words
National energy suppliers provide low charge to an on site battery, the battery by design can then deliver high charge rates ( the 7kw Hr ) to each car on site needs.
That's the practical work around to the network not able to scale it's deliver with demand...introduce a buffer step.
Network > one charge point > one car
Or
Network > one battery on site > N charge points > N cars
In my example one battery could be N batteries so.its scalable 1 battery supports say 4 cars in parallel
"Like you we are lucky enough to have a 7kW wall box."
It wasn't luck it was pre-planning.
@@cnault3244 And I wonder how much that 7 kw wall box cost to purchase and install. Also, what if you have to park outside and somebody steals your charging cable?
@@rickraber1249 What if you have to park your gasoline car outside and someone steals your catalytic converter. Or your car. What if what if what if
Givernment doesn't need to be governing pushing EV cars. The market need to govern it.
Hello sir, I am not from the UK. But I live here in Canada. There is a huge push here in Canada for Electric Vehicles. You were talking about those living in flats (or apartments). I live in an apartment (apartment complex) myself, and just back in September of this year, my landlord installed 2 charging stations for each building. Now these charging stations, you have to pay by credit card or using the app just like you would at a public charging station. We have about 24 units or more per building. Some units may have 1 or 2 vehicles for each unit. We have 3 buildings in our complex. Now, at this time no one in our complex has an EV. There might be maybe a hybrid vehicle or 2 in our complex, and none of them are the plug in hybrid. Anyways, my point is this no one in my complex seem to care about getting an EV. We already have problems in our complex with our power going out from time to time. A few weeks ago, we had the inspector putting stickers on the charging stations, and he told me he would never buy an EV because the infrastructure is not there yet. He said he has been on the industry for 20 years, and he still wouldn't even purchase an EV. He said he would encourage people to get a plug hybrid or just even a regular hybrid, but never a EV when the infrastructure is not even there. I am the same way, I would never purchase an EV. Maybe a plug in hybrid, but definitely not a EV when the infrastructure is lacking. Those are my 2 cents.
Hello John. Like you, I live in Canada, and I too live in a high rise building, although mine is a 56 Unit condo, in which I own my own two parking spots. I drive a 2022 Volvo C40, fully electric car, and have never had an issue with charging my vehicle, as I have my own charger installed at my parking space. I charge my vehicle at night, when the fees for electricity are reduced and on longer road trips in which the distance travelled exceeds the range of my vehicle, I simply charge the vehicle at one of the fast chargers located along my route. My vehicle alerts me to where these chargers are located. Admittedly, driving an EV does not fit everyone's lifestyle yet, it does fit mine perfectly. Typically I spend about $30 per month charging my vehicle whereas I used to spend about $200 a month driving my Internal Combustion Engine car. And I like to think that I am doing my part to help this planet survive. So I appreciate that an EV might not work for you, there are thousands of people who drive them and are getting along just fine. And there will be more in the future. Thanks for your "two cents" and thanks for reading my "nickel".
You have a lot more space in Canada, and a UK flat/apartment here is usually tiny with no dedicated parking, often street parking at best
Isn’t it also tougher on the batteries (like drain) living in normally colder environments?
The "inspector" works for the POWER company. He's been working for the monopoly for 20 years. He knows nothing about EVs. Or. He knows EVs facts and is lying to the gullible - hoping to protect his job.
@@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck you seemed to have missed the point that I was making. As I said, he was discouraging people from purchasing electric cars because he knows there isn't enough electricity on the power grid to charge everyone's cars and power everyone's homes.
The reason your mileage per charge changes: When you reset the mileage management, it reverts to factory defaults. These defaults are typically based upon optimum parameters such as operating temperature, road surface, head winds, etc. More, significantly, environmental controls being off. Both heat and AC require significant amounts of battery power. If you frequently drive with either on, the mileage computer will began to factor that and all other impacts into an average. Thus, while the range decreases. Also, each time you charge discharge the battery, you take a slice of it's life/capacity away.
Basically, the "factory defaults" are a fantasy land of variables which are used to sell the EVs to ignorant customers by making unattainable claims of performance based on conditions that don't exist in the real world. Simply put, EV are sold by Snake Oil salesmen and politicians. Sorry, I can't tell one from another, they all look the same to me.
I can't imagine purchasing a used EV where batter life and range has been significantly reduced.
P
Yep. It's like my HP Laserjet printer. It gives you a number for how many pages more you can print with the present cartridge. It's based on what you having been printing, and extrapolates it. You may actually get significantly more or less.
Short answer - Driving history predicts range using past performance, instead of best case scenario.
Great video! This hits so many important issues on living with an EV. As Retiree in the US who enjoys exploring our vast country we opted for a hybrid SUV. We've taken several 1500 mile trips and it's practical and reasonably economical at 30-35 MPG.
No fires yet? Do you charge it in your garage while the family sleeps? Do you sleep with one eye open in hopes of escaping the fire? Look how many explode and burn uncontrollably every DAY. Look hard because they scrub them quickly. Ask your car insurance salesman for an EV quote. Sit down for the answer. Many Companies no longer insure them. Some charge double and triple. Premiums are based on losses. Hybrids blow up as well as regular EV's.
I have a small Toyota Scion with a 1.5l gas engine that gets 30mpg at 70 mph.
Until you have a green thermal fire. Good luck!
USA idea of economy is different to Europe. Here we’d be thinking 55mpg plus for a diesel.
1 Uk gallon is larger than a US gallon
Thanks Pete, great content as always. A few points (from an ex Mach-e ‘owner’). Resetting the range clock does absolutely nothing to impact the range, it just resets it to the theoretical range until you e done a few trips and then normal ‘range calculation’ is resumed (240 on warm days, 200 on cold days).
I didn’t have a home box, used the public network. It was a complete ball ache with charge points out of order or full on about 30% of journeys. Travelling to and from Cornwall on holiday with the family was god awful with all the waiting around to charge. And the public charge points say 50kwh…complete tosh! lucky to get 40kwh out of most. After 9 months I gave up. Back to dinosaur juice I’m afraid and life is so much easier. I’ll see what EVs look like in another 10 years - maybe. Keep the content coming, great work
Seven years of using the Tesla charging network with 100% success.
I do think you need some common sense to run an EV.
The "the dash says" crowd and the "it's a 50kwh charger and I'm only getting 40kwh" should just stick to the self charging hybrids.
This is why people buy Tesla's - the ownership experience is completely different in this respect. It is depressing that the user experience for non-Tesla EVs is still so poor.
You get 40kW from the 50kW charger cos they are nominally spec'd at 400V and 125A (sometimes 100 or 120A even). But when you plug in to charge, your battery is probably at 360-380V, and the current maximum is fixed. And there are some transmission/conversion losses too, Obviously you shouldn't need to know this, and when it says 50kW you should reasonably expect to get 50kW....
What on earth decided you to buy a Mac-E without any apparent thought or planning Gary? It seems a bit unrealistic if you don’t mind me saying. (Are you prone to making these types of spur of the moment whims?) Why no home box?
@@philtucker1224 Exactly. As I said above, I made sure that there are sufficient on street charging points in my local area before pushing the button on buying. Plus, I've done trips to the south of France in my i3 and spent no more time at services charging than I normally would stop for, on such a trip, to stop for a meal break, pee, or just a leg stretch, except I didn't need to queue to use a pump and then queue to pay (if pay at pump is not available, which it often isn't at motorway services).
Hi Pete, I’ve scanned through the posts to see if anyone else has mentioned this, but I haven’t seen it yet. I have met many people from the UK, and one of the first things they remark on about the US (aside from our weight problem) is the sheer size of the country. I’m sure a 300 mile range sounds like a lot to the Brits, but if you live anywhere between the two coasts here, that can be a problem. You won’t necessarily find charge points as easy as you’ll find gas stations.
You do not own an electric vehicle.
When I was young many years ago and watched cowboy films in America they used horses to get around and a horse drawn wagon if they was taking the family out for the day. Time to readjust your mind sets you will own nothing be happy and not travel or vote for Trump and hope he kicks the WEF and net zero insanity into touch.
This appears to be a very common problem politicians have conveniently ignored. They'll claim their own EV on their expenses paid by taxpayers. while these same expense paying taxpayers mostly can't afford a new EV. This in turn can't be charged in many areas without sufficient power generation & transport or charging point infrastructure.
I'm retired and like to travel the US. On any given day, 300 miles would run out fast. How long does it take to charge an EV vehicle? When I drive on the interstate, there are often 20-30 people gasing up. How will 30 people charge at one time? I think EV's are nice on paper, but reality is a totally different thing.
In some cases, traveling through the Canadian Rockies, there are many signs warning you of the last gas station and then yer own yer own. And they ain't kidding (I'm Canadian BTW). It's a no brainer to have a few litres of gas in your vehicle on these road trips. This isn't going off the map. This is trying to go from point A to point B through the Rockies. It's massive. I would be very nervous with an EV in bad weather trying to attempt that. Not against EVs at all. But it's a solution that will, IMO, not fit all countries 100%.
If the migration to EV in the UK looks challenging, imagine it here in Eastern Europe. In the cities most people live in apartment buildings with shared open air parking areas. Charging an EV in such environment is almost impossible. And if they want to make EVs accessible, it will be a HUGE undertaking - the city power infrastructure will have to be completely rebuilt. And if they want to install EV chargers in the parking areas, that also means they'll have to dig the roads a lot.
It's crazy to even imagine it.
I'm in Barcelona and I've had my Tesla Model 3 for 3 years now. My parking is in a different building than my flat. The biggest challenge that I had was getting charging in my parking spot. I had to petition the building owners to allow me to have a new electric meter added and I was lucky that they had space for 3 more. Then I hired a professional installer and they were able to get everything done for just €2,000 and 500€ was the charger box.
As I always charge at night when it's cheaper I don't think it will be an issue when other people transition to electric cars.
@@glennshoemake4200 charging one, two or few cars is not a problem. The problem will arise, when there are more people, who have EVs and want to charge them simultaneously (at night or whatever).
The existing electrical infrastructure will need to be rebuild completely, in order to handle this extreme loads.
Also, when you say "just" 2000 + 500 EUR, do you understand, that this is about 1 month salary for most people in Europe? This is not cheap, it's an additional expense.
In my opinion, without huge support from the EU - the transition to EV will be very hard for many people.
Also, Tesla ain't exactly cheap and affordable for a lot of people.
It is not a problem for one person with good income to get EV today.
What is hard is to make this transition for everyone (or almost everyone).
I think you underestimate the challenge.
@@moetocafe Yes Tesla is not cheap, but people here spend as much on a petrol only car such as Mercedes, Audi or BMW.
I drove a Ford Focus for 10 years to save money for the Tesla. I'm glad I made the switch to Electric.
My car uses 3kw an hour which is not a lot. I could pay extra for more KW pipe but as my car sits in the garage it's really not necessary.
€2000 was total install, 1500€ was labor and other materials and €500 was the electric box with its own Menekes plug and key to lock it when not in use.
Finance rates were cheap in 2019, but not so much now. Still it's the best car that I've ever owned and still puts a smile on my face when I drive it and when it's cleaned.
@@glennshoemake4200 I'm sure it's a great car and you have joy with it. And that's very nice!
I am not anti-EV in any way.
I was simply pointing out, that the transition to EV for the majority of people (and thus for the governments) will be a challenge and will probably take more time, than anticipated.
@@moetocafe That's true and in November 2019, there were a lot fewer options in buying a EV. My biggest criteria was the ability to drive 90 minutes away to Costa Brava Beach and to enjoy the day out and to be able to drive home without having the need to charge anywhere. The Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe are both not capable of this and as I knew that I would keep the car I went ahead and bought the Long Range Tesla Model 3. My wife was initially against the purchase because of the high price, but now she loves it and always wants to go out for a ride. There is a good chance Tesla will build a cheaper hatchback which would be great for the European market if they can get the price at €25,000.
Great video, and you have raised some points that most people who own EVs seemingly do not want to discuss or debate. A couple in particular stand out: 1. the increased current that 'fast chargers' need so that EV users can be on their way in about 15 minutes causes a massive drain on the local electricity network, however most EV users either plainly ignore this fact or couldn't care less, and 2. the subsidies offered to people to encourage the uptake of EVs only benefits those that can already afford it. So essentially society is funding people who shouldn't be getting a subsidy in the first place. It's not too dissimilar to subsidies some governments provide for the uptake of solar panels. Most people either can't afford solar panels or live in a situation where they couldn't have them even if they wanted to, i.e. those who live in apartments. Again, it's the majority of society that has to pay so that a few can benefit.
Most EVs don't use fast chargers more than 5-10% of the time, and the amount of current that they actually use is a lot smaller than you think. Most draw at about 150kW on a DC fast charger, but put less than 50kWh worth of juice into the battery at any session. The vast majority of the time (like 90+%) EVs charge overnight at MUCH lower amperage (mine can refill a days worth driving on a 15a, 120v outlet, and only uses about 180kWh per month, or 1/10th of my home's monthly use). MOST people don't live in apartments or condos (and although both of those are getting incentives to add at least an electrical outlet at each space, it'll take a while for that to be ubiquitous). In fact, of the 280 million cars and light trucks in the US, EVs could serve perfectly for day to day use for almost 75% of them right now (which is about 200 million vehicles). Even if all manufacturers switched to only making EVs first thing tomorrow morning, it'd take decades of normal automobile sales levels to replace that many cars. More than enough time to expand generation, much like the electric utilities have as we've added thousands of huge data centers for Amazon, Google and the like over the last 5 years (that use more juice together than if every car were an EV). You think the majority live in apartments? Flat out wrong. Oh, and none of my 3 EVs over the last decade have had subsidies. They've been about $25k new, which is about the same as a Honda CRV or VW GTi, with similar power, and more range than most people use in a week.
One point that I did not hear: if you are at a two port charging station "alone" and say it will take an hour to charge your vehicle, should a second person pull up and use the second port, your time to charge has now doubled. The charging stations can only put out a certain amperage (wattage) and if you are the only one there you get it all, if not you only get half. Same at home should you have two EV's and lucky enough to have two ports. I loved the video!
Cheers from North Carolina USA!
battery swop china have it sorted
Mike, you’re totally incorrect.
What Seth said.
I live in Spain. Many people live in apartments (64+ in a block) with communal parking. I have a private parking space, but it is in a shared garage.
A lot of Spanish also live in townhouses without garages. I am glad you did this video because I have been saying the same thing and a lot of people just ignore the problem.
people think electricity just comes from the outlet by itself...
@@DanOneOneAgree totally. I use to work for the local electric company.
I don't understand how come so many people do not realize the reality on this situation...how can so many be so ignorant including the governments that are imposing this...are they really that stupid or they just want to f@ck us all up??!!🤔
Not everyone will be in a situation to have a level two charger at their home. But that is no different than not having a gas pump at your house. You simply top off before you get home just like you’d fill your tank. I’m a big fan of EV’s but our world is nowhere near ready for compulsory EV ownership. California, the most ignorant state on the planet, will mandate that ICE cars be banned and want to force everyone to drive an EV. But then they tell you not to charge it because the grid can’t handle it. What a mess. Phase EV’s in over time as driving range is extended, the charging infrastructure is improved, and the cost of EV’s become more affordable for everyone. ICE cars should never be banned. Another situation not being considered is the elderly. Are we going to expect 70 year old grandma, on a low fixed income, to pay a thousands of dollars to purchase and install a level two charger at her home. Or if she lives in a high rise apartment building are we expecting her to drive to a charging station in the dead of winter and sit in her car for the length of time it takes to fully charge. California, we are nowhere near ready for your forced government mandates with respect to EV’s.
@DanOneOne
No someday you'll just reach up and a 1MegaWatt charge cord will appear from the sky😅
As someone who drove 2,500 miles each month with a EV without level 2 charging at home my experience was as follows.
Everyday while I'm at lunch I would go to the local EVGO station which luckily was near three places to eat at. I learn pretty quickly I had to go for lunch super early around 10am otherwise I'll be screwed due to only two charge points and too much activity between 11am-2pm. The average cost of getting my car battery charge about 55-60% was 10 dollars per charge and would take 30-45 minutes I have a Mach-E so I knew fast charging past 80% was pointless. Generally most days was having my lunch and then helping people work the charge station as the card reader never worked and the station only work properly by EVGO app. Which setting up a new user is time consuming and made the lines even worse at this charge station. In my case everything work out which I could do it during lunch but I'm sure for many they won't have that convince and will be burden with commute, hours at works, and then wasting 30-2 hours depending in the car charging which will really cut into people personal life which might be mentally unhealthy for the population long term.
@MixinRaver welcome to the modern economy
With an ICE car you would fill up three times every two weeks, on the way home, it would take ten minutes per fill and you would avoid the lunchtime stress and could eat when and where you chose to, not where circumstance dictated, being forced to adopt a lifestyle to accommodate my car would be a hard circle to square.
If you went to lunch at 10 AM, it doesn’t sound like you returned to work at 11 AM, so did you have a 2 hour lunch? In any office where I worked, I would not be permitted a 2 hour lunch!! Also on the days that I was on the road conducting business, the noon time charge up would be impossible. In my life’s work, a 2 hour lunch would get you fired after your first 2 hour lunch!!
@byoh100 My schedule is extremely flexible but generally, I'll be out no more than an hour between travel charging and eating. As I mention it not ideal for most people which is why I'm against these mandates trying to force everyone to EV when it not a car that is ideal for all scenarios.
@@NihilistSolitude not finding fault, I understood your statement, just wondering what kind of a lunch/work schedule you work as I know work requirements are almost as varied as the number of working people in the US. Have a good one.
I recently joined the EV community almost a year ago. I do have a home charger and it has been wonderful. I often have discussions with people about my EV and it always starts with the topic of charging. My advice to those is if you won't have the ability to charge at home, I caution against and EV if it is your primary mode of transportation. Just the few times I have used the charging network I am not a fan. Although it is only a 15 minute stop for me it is a hassle due to the fact that near me there isn't much of an option without driving several miles. Luckily the option I do have is with the company that I have free charging with for a while from when I bought my car. The EV experience has been amazing for me. I don't think I would say the same if I had to rely on public charging.
If you are doing just local journeys it's fine. Then the cost of buying a new EV is far greater, I doubt I would spend a cool £50k on a vehicle to say how wonderful it is for a 15 minutes of enjoyment. Majority of the public do not have that luxury and comfort. EVs are a scam that will eventually backfire on people's pockets big time. THEY EXPLODE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
@@lnr243 They explode all over the place...hilarious 😂
@@lnr243 - My 2015 Nissan Leaf I bought in 2017 (for $9k) has only exploded twice a year, so only 14 'splosions' so far . . . . mostly at home (not 'all over the place'). Not a big issue for me. take care, rh
@@richardhobbs7107 I said a CAR...Nissan Leaf:):):):):)
@@lnr243 - Ha - ha . Compared to the 1963 Ford F-100 it replaced it is more like a little 'space-ship' ! But you probably consider it a roller-skate? take care, rh
Thank you for posting this video. It is incredibly well balanced and should be mandatory viewing for any politicians who think that EVs are some sort of panacea.
Sadly, it’s not balanced at all. He even admitted in the first few minutes that he doesn’t understand how the predicted range on his car is calculated.
seems no one wants to talk about,what happens when batteries die,are they recycled,not here in NZ,politicians stear away from subject
@@pinkybar7328 They will be recycled or reused, plenty of info out there if you want it, not really been an issue so far as so few have actually needed recycling. An EV battery that is finished in a car is still fine for something like a batery farm (balancing load from renewables etc)
I live in Iowa, USA. We have the third largest wind generating capacity per capita in the USA, some into thirty years of use. Listening to some of the environmental concerns you are having in this conversation, it might be interesting to relay an observation I see going on in my location with other green projects.
With aged windmills here in my state, and around the USA, we have blade replacement going on in many of the fields. The blades are fiberglass and no one has a recycling plan/program for outdated blades. So far, the solution has been and continues to be to load the old blades on trucks and drive them to any place that has been found that will receive them to be buried. These old blades take up quite a bit of space.
We have hundreds of thousands of these blades in the USA and this is the singular end to their use. It does not seem to me to be an efficient end-of-life for any part of a renewable energy policy. Think of all the energy used to dispose of and then the land use issues in this disposal process.
Excellent point then add in the killing of the birds 🐦 its very sad.
ALL of these “Green Energy Schemes” are “Half Assed” at best. I have been involved in Green Building Design in the past and it’s also a BS story as well. If it wasn’t for the government funding involved, it would be a total bust. Government can’t do what they are supposed to do let alone getting involved in energy!!
green energy tech is a threat to the planet
Also the moral aspect of the children mining the minerals for the batteries.
also noise pollution
Hi sir as a retired electrical contractor I think we need to be aware that the average domestic dwelling is supplied with a 100 amp supply , which can indeed be less than say 80 amps depending on the installation . If you factor in the possibility of numerous vehicles being changed on one incoming supply , you will appreciate a problem is is going to manifest itself . Give the existing demand of the household supply already copping with the demands of. ie cookers, showers , washing machines etc . We can begin to question are we in a position to actually be able to accommodate such a situation . I fully appreciate that most people assume you can just plug something in and everything will be ok , but in reality this is seldom the case . Excess demand can = heat which can = thermal runaway which can = combustion ie = fire 🔥 .
Although the US uses a lot more electric power per person than in other countries, since 2010 the averages have been coming down. We have more efficient motors, heat, and lights than in the past.
you are right - my road has a 35mm2 three phase cable which supplies about 10 houses. When I’m pulling 12kw overnight the voltage drops a fair amount. Only needs a few more houses charging and heating water for it to become a problem
@@segokorsch People are HOMELESS too.
@@JBroc-359 If you look into the "homeless" issue you will find that at its core is usually drug / alcohol addiction and mental illness. These social problems have NOTHING to do with EV's.
@@segokorsch Good sense dictates that the rise in homeless people has an impact on the average home electrical system. they aint got one, which reduces , as a factor, the amount of energy used in the states as a statistic. we were discussing home owner electrical usage. Less owners = less usage. Right? Homeless people do not have "average domestic dwellings"
The Core you speak of is directly related to rampant capitalism, and the inability to see beyond our legalities. maybe your life never sucked so bad that you turned to something else for an escape. let you rent soar 2 or 3 hundred percent then lose your income source. get evicted, start a criminal record from it, and see how much more money we can squeeze out of those who have none. and people sit around and wonder why all these shooting occur. Plus, the entire country cannot all have all of the upgraded appliances and better efficiency products. That just sounds like a curved metric to me.
I've had an EV for nearly 2 years and I'm leaving them behind and going back to hybrid. I don't have off street parking and can only use rapid chargers / supermarket trickle chargers. A year ago, the number of EVs on the road was so low that rapid chargers were very easy to access. Now, the balance has completely changed and it's impossible to get a charging slot without queuing behind several other cars at any time of day. In winter, charging is twice as bad because energy efficiency per mile nosedives. I have to charge my EV every 2 days. At this stage, I don't believe EVs will ever become ubiquitous because of the millions of people who don't have at-home charging. The number of rapid chargers we need would be astronomical.
Not a disaster if you KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
@@IntegerOfDoomwe will be suffering with the e-waste for decades.
Chargers certainly need to become more efficient.
As that becomes a reality, there would only need to be less than a full changeover from gas pumps to EV chargers.
I agree the number of Foster charges needs to increase and be maintained for a really can’t agree with you. Claim that you have to queue behind loads of people. I’ve had an eBay for nearly 5 years. I do several long journeys five hour drives to visit family throughout the year, I have certain places I go and I never need to queue if you’re gonna stop at a motorway services with lots of chargers that you’re going to queue, people are like sheep.
No offset parking then buying an EV? It's a nightmare just thinking about it. Lol
I think of not being able to charge at home as similar to not having a laundry washing machine at home. I remember back in the days when I lived in apartments, I would just wait until I had absolutely no clean clothes left, then either use the communal washing machines (if my apartment had one) or making a journey to a laundromat and just burning up a whole afternoon of my time. It's certainly doable, but you're definitely sacrificing time and convenience.
I’ve found that even level 1 charging is surprisingly effective, I get 5-7 miles per hour on 1.4kw charger (American standard wall plug power) and can easily charge 12hours+ a day and we don’t drive over 60.
OIL INDUSTRY LIES
@@mark-wo2wjlisten to hugegamer.hes smarter than you are.
yep, now one can have both pleasures: no washing machine and a care with no place to charge.
@mark-wo2wj state some facts to back up your assertion. Otherwise, run along home to mommy.
Hey Pete, I live in Australia. and installed Solar panels on roof several years ago and was getting good rate for surplus electricity I was selling to the grid, now I get next to nothing plus hidden solar meter charges. I saw this happening a long time ago, as you rightly say, the same will happen with EV's when Governments lose out on excise etc. Very well put together arguments on living with an EV.
And if the power grid is shut down, people with gas engines will be carting people around…
The Australian Govt has already discussed making EV owners pay extra to make up for the tax revenue they lose from petrol sales. It's all a massive con! People are told yet another 'fairy story' about how great EVs are, but reality gives a different result. Imagine the cost to run an EV when power prices go up another 56% (they have ALREADY increased!) + those Govt EV taxes.
Classic bait-and-switch.
You could use the battery in your EV as a way to store the extra charge of the solar panels during the day.
... until they run out of gas and can't get any more because fuel pumps are, you guessed it, electric. Meanwhile, those of us who can charge our EVs from our solar panels will just keep going as usual.
You are absolutely freakin' RIGHT. It's absolutely amazing how greatly the motoring press have engaged EVs without scrutinizing the elephant in the room.
Not just the motoring press - how about the Government? They wouldn't dare announce that voters without off-street parking can't own cars and yet the implication is crystal clear. Nor is off-street parking the only elephant in the room. It seems inevitable that all the EV batteries currently in service are going to end up dumped in West Africa - with all the other toxic waste - because there's no recycling yet. (Incidentally there's a guy in Llangollen who charges his EV with a cable across the pavement. Dark nights, old people - it's bound to happen.)
It's a gimmick, and they're probably getting a kickback from the manufacturers who are in turn being forced into it all.
Yet not a dinosaur.
@@rob5944 yes I'm sure we all remember the government scapage scheme in 2009 £2000 off a new car. Well I bought one and still have it . But now the diesel is a dirty word and again the government got it all wrong.
@@simonwilkinson6554 moreover I can't believe the new licencing system where road tax is calculated on the value new, whether it be under £40k or not. Then subsequent owners pay a percentage (or something like that). Consequently my daughter's mate has a 5 litre Mustang and it attracts quite a low amount considering..... madness!
Very good point about taxation and loss of revenues as we switch over to electric.
In Colorado, USA our taxes per gallon is 22 cents. The Federal tax, as I understand it, is 18 cents. I should assume there is also a county and city tax. At minimum, 40 cents per gallon. Assuming 20 mpg, that’s 2 cents per mile. I currently pay about 11 cents per kW and figure conservatively 3 miles per kW. Just for easier math, let’s figure 4 cents per mile in my EV. That would have to go up at least 50% per mile to make up for that revenue. Currently in the US, there is NO tax on electricity for residential use.
Here in the Midwest U.S. a local Ford Dealer wanted to add several charging stations to align with Fords mandates and was told by the local power company that was not enough power in the area to do it. In the adjoining neighborhood with one wall unit it browns out the street when used at full power.
USA?
ne box browns out the neighborhood? Sounds like a seriously degraded grid. maybe you ought to consider a solar roof to protect you from outages due to winter storms, let alone electric cars.
Same where I live. There is a $100 plus charge (per) electric vehicle from the electric company (It needs its own meter). Also the normal car registrations is 50-100 for 2 years. Electric vehicles are charged that plus a road surcharge of currently $100 a year. It cost 200 extra for plates and at least $100 a month to charge it. Not including usage.
The long and short of this is, the power authority here and many elsewhere have gotten away with taking profits over the years and not re-investing in infrastructure improvements. From generation to distribution, much is required for the future. Petroleum corporations have taken customer money and reinvested in more refueling stations and the production infrastructure for over 100 years. Some of those now are getting on the EV charging distribution bandwagon.
$8k electricians quote to upgrade & install a Level 2 charging unit in my garage That's it no EV 4 me my house was built in the 60s & I'm not going through the anxiety of an hour to charge at stations that may or may not be working
In USA people who park on the street have been issued tickets for running extension cords across the sidewalk (footpath) to charge their cars. The dilemma as I see it is "Where is all this power to charge all these EVs going to come from ?"
A very large amount of our electricity is generated by…
fossil fuels.
Where will all the power come from? Most likely from natural gas, coal or oil powered power stations. Awkward if the object is to cut CO2 emissions.
@@coweatsman it will be like that everywhere, not just it the US, no country has enough surplus, we will need more coal, oil, gas, and nuclear, with only the later being carbon neutral.
Its all about control. Get us on electric cars. Flick a switch that creates a blackout. Give only the Renfields electricity.
Power and control issue, not ecology and climate change.
@@CrusaderSports250 Best of all is using less energy, no matter what the energy source. Downsize the economy and population. Humans are in overshoot.
I completely agree with your perspective, Thames up!
Using an electric car can be challenging for some people, especially if they don’t have their own charger at home. While electric vehicles (EVs) are environmentally friendly and cost-effective in the long run, the convenience of owning one can be limited by access to reliable charging options. Without a personal charger, drivers often have to rely on public charging stations, which may not always be readily available or conveniently located.
In some areas, finding a charging station can be time-consuming, and even when found, drivers may encounter long waiting times if the station is in high demand. Additionally, charging an EV can take significantly longer than refueling a traditional gasoline car, adding to the inconvenience. For those living in apartments or homes without dedicated parking spaces, the lack of easy access to charging infrastructure can be a major hurdle to embracing electric vehicles.
To address these challenges, some cities and companies are expanding public charging networks, but until these are widely accessible, owning an EV without a home charger can feel limiting. Ideally, having a home charging station allows EV owners to charge their car overnight, ensuring they start each day with a full battery, but without it, the convenience of owning an electric vehicle diminishes.
I think that your average mileage issue is that when you reset this puts it back the factory setting which is based on ideal driving and conditions to maximise the range. However as soon as you start driving in the real world the actual range will come down showing what range you are really getting and will keep falling until you get to a true average range. So if I was you don't reset and you will end up with a more accurate range based on real world driving
Spot on Stephen. EV's are definitely not good for people who do a lot of country/highway driving as they will typically only get about 50-60% of the claimed range in these conditions.
When VW did a similar thing with their ICE cars it was described as a 'cheat device', and they were fined hugely. Which government will be courageous enough to prosecute fashionable EVs, and get repayments to cheated customers? Hint, don't hold your breath.
@@cnocspeireag How the hell you've managed to equate the VW emissions cheating scandal with the range estimation algorithm of an EV I have no bloody idea. People are weird.
@@Scuba72Chris I think he's trying to equate manufacturers lying about the typical EV range with lying about the diesel emissions i.e. just lying/cheating in general to try and attract customers or beat the govt tests. We're keeping our diesel and petrol cars for at least 10+ years as range anxiety is something we don't want to even think about - currently we fill up every 2 to 4 weeks and wait until the yellow light comes on before tanking up in less than 5 mins! Plus we have a 5 litre container in the boot for emergencies but it's never been needed so the fuel is just rotated approx. every year to keep it fresh!
@@Scuba72Chris the manufacturers aren't lying, because it is all based on the WLTP test. However, when it comes to highway range, which is the only time you really care about EV range, the WLTP is totally nonsense. You get about 2/3 of the states range. So the WLTP test is lying to you. And obviously, everyone in the business knows about it. But nobody is brave enough to mandate that the highway range is specified as well for all cars. NB: the numbers exists! It's the 4th part of the WLTP test. It's just not publicised anywhere.
I used to work for a company of around 200 employees, they only had 10 EV chargers in the company parking lot. So the people with EV's had to draw up a charging roster for each day of the week for those who needed to charge at work and that became a mission to manage as you can imagine.
I can indeed 😳
I used to live in a commune where the electrucity bill was equally divided among all the residents and whoever was staying temporarily at the time. Too bad if you used less than someone with lots of electric gadgets and of course there was the problem of people who disappeared just before the money was due and even permanent residents who just didn't pay. So the remaining suckers (of which I was one) ended up paying a lot of money for little benefit
@@trkstatrksta8410 That is very very rare to have a communal electric bill
@@trkstatrksta8410 lol try and find an even more obscure example if you dare. :)
Simple solution: Don't buy one.
Excellent video as always! I’ve had my Tesla for 6 months and I fall into the category that you rightly raise. Cheapest public charger near me will cost £46 for a full charge (100kW battery) but now using the Tesla network for a long journey is now £69 for a charge…range 250 miles. For me the big issue is the sporadic pricing whereas fuel is fairly consistent.
One last point that no one is talking about is learning to drive. As all electric cars are automatic, what licence will be available to use once fuel cars can’t be used as learner cars. Let’s face it, driving schools aren’t going to teach people in 10plus year old cars…..would love you view on that too!
Keep up the awesome work.
£69 for 250 miles!
Is that why whenever I watch an EV video on TH-cam they never tell you how much they've just paid to 'fill up' the car?
For comparison, my 320d can easily get 500 miles from £85 of diesel.
I don’t think fuel is consistent at all. To fill my diesel this time last year was £60 yesterday £98. The annoying thing is that over 70% is tax.😆😖
You have a Tesla with 100kWh battery and only get 250 miles of range to a charge? I'd get your car checked out, that's appalling efficiency. (2.5 mi/kWh)
It’s the standard range unfortunately. I know others with the same car and they get the same as it’s the Model X which is a big heavy car.
@@tonydoc903 well what I mean is that there is a small fluctuation in fuel pricing at the same time. Charging my car can range from £44 for a charge and £70, that’s a huge variation. My old car would cost within £5 for the cheapest and most expensive fuel…..
This is a fantastic video. The same issues you describe are the reasons I bought a Hybrid instead of an EV. In Ontario Canada where I live we have a government which cancelled all incentives for EV purchases. They are only available at the federal level. There is little to no infrastructure publically. People are going back to gas powered vehicles in the larger city centers as a result. Range insecurity is a huge issue in Canada and of course our winter lowers your range. It is a mess which no one talks about. So much more to discuss but will leave it at that. Terrific, straight forward and honest discussion.
Bottom line is, if you don't have an exclusive charging source, think twice about getting a EV. Even if there are public charging points near where you live/work, you may need to line up to get your EV charged up (regardless what the cost is).
Or working as a builder money does not come from thin air
I would hop nobody would be naive enough to buy a PHEV or EV without home charging capabilities.
"think twice about getting a EV" BUT THEY'RE NOT GIVING US THAT CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OIL INDUSTRY LIES
@@comment6864 Let them try I will kill over my Altis and trust me you don't ever want to push me to that edge
You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned forgetting to charge and then having to make to an unexpected journey. My sister in law drives the Mach e EV and had the situation where she forgot to charge and had a call from the school advising her Son had a serious accident and had gone to hospital. Half way through her journey she ran out of charge and had to get family to pick her up. She has no faith in the car now and is switching back to Diesel.
Hmm.... so she has no faith in the car....because SHE forgot to charge it up?
With a ~20 min 10-80% charge time for some of the newer EVs this is a lot less of an issue.
What i want to know is how she got her car back and charged? Call a tow truck every time it runs out of range? Another money drain compared to having to walk with a small tank of gas and get it going till you fill it up at any gas station. To me that makes working for a living to living to work and pay everything on time. Pass!
@@henrybourdon6712 ... and the tow truck is diesel... 🙄😂
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 ha ha good point Pete. I can just imagine a tow truck company have to buy 3-4 trucks to be able to work 24 hours and have to keep 2-3 on the charger to be able to do so if they have a small territory limit. Where i live from one town/city to the next in the great white north of B.C. with battery killing life cold it is a 2 and a half hour drive to the midway point plus the time working the hydraulics recovering the car or truck or rig.
I've been considering those aspects for better than thirty years. I worked in high end electronics for forty years and I've been an automotive mechanic all my life since about age ten. So much of the reality of electric vehicles have simply been ignored, tamped down, hidden from the general public. I've got less problems than most, I am retired, live alone, and leave my home only once or twice a week, but regardless of those facts, when we have a challenging issue, we have no recourse if we are forced into these things. Thanks for laying things out so clear and forthright. I have no desire to leave my forty year old diesel car. So far, almost no consideration of the cost to make batteries, the destruction mining their materials imposes and the fact they have a set specific number of charging cycles directly related to depth of discharge and speed of recharging. At the current time, China is the source of most of the raw materials for producing the cars and the batteries, and appears to be a fact into the foreseeable future. "Rare earth minerals" have been sourced my whole life as they currently are. I was reading about "electric vehicles" since the mid sixties, knowing they were present at the beginning of "automobiles" and quite competitive with hydro-carbon fuel vehicles" at that time. When our governments assume authority to tell us what we can have, what we must do, it's called Tyrrany.
It is like the Childs fairy tale about the kings clothes . Everybody is told he looks wonderful and believes it . Then the child who has not been brainwashed says , he has got nothing on .
Hi John this is very well explained the comment is 💯 percent thanks from Toronto Canada 🇨🇦 enjoy your diesel car and your retirement
Most of the lithium will come from Australia, buy Pilbara shares. In NZ I charge my Leaf from solar, not fast but very cheap.
Hi John, I’m sorry that you find yourself in a lonely situation but I also hope you have achieved all those things you set out to do fifty years ago, and that you have achieved satisfaction. Peace and love bro. 🙏
@@howardsimpson489 sounds good but in the U.K. we only get about 4 months of useful sunlight per year so we are developing more nuclear energy which has a 100% clean output.
Thanks for highlighting these issues we might face. Me, living in Spain and Austria a hybrid is still much, much better than an EV with all those things you mentioned
Thank you Peter for raising the issues of disabled people having difficulty with charging electric vehicles. I’m posting the hyperlink to your excellent video on a couple of disability Facebook groups. Keep up the excellent work. Andrew
A true story : A disabled person recently leased an electric car through Motability and then posts of a disability Facebook group that he doesn’t have off-road parking and asking where near his south-coast home can he charge it. I was aghast. Surely if you’re going to lease an EV that’s the first consideration?
Wow 🤷♂️😮
@@weenedonpetrol it says a lot about the integrity of the dealer.
@@David-bl1bt I totally agree. Indeed I would go furthest and say that Motability have a moral responsibility to their disabled customers who perhaps don’t have the technical ability to understand EVs to ensure they have access to a nearby charging facility.
On a personal level I had the opposite experience recently when my local Peugeot Motability Dealer tried to sell me a home charger costing £700 when I enquired about leasing a 308 PHEV, despite me making it very clear that I have a 13 amp socket on my garage that suits my needs quite adequately. He tried to claim that the wall box “would charge the car better’. Fortunately I’m not that naive.
@@weenedonpetrol 🤣 typical dealer, full of BS hoping you are gullible enough to believe what they say.
Never ask a deal for their recommendation, never believe a word they tell you, that's the best mantra
Buyer beware...do your own research.
You bring up an excellent point.
If you buy an EV when you can charge it at home, you're limited when you move as to where you can get a flat since you now own a car that can't be charged if you don't have off-street parking included.
and, as an electrician, I can tell you it costs a LOT to install a charger, much less having to upgrade your electrical service (more $$$) to support the load... that is if your utility can support the load...
After seeing the water spot on the windshield for so long, it dawned on me that one might be concerned about the affect it would have on your range......recently many EV drivers on the east coast in the US experienced cold winter days and shortened battery life. So much that they had to drive without the heater running just to make it to the next charging station. Batteries will always be the Achilles heel of this movement. Always.
Maybe.... but battery technology is continually evolving... "Necessity is the Mother of Invention" ... From what I've seen, I am confident workable solutions are being found.
@@Paul99T we know all the elements of the periodic table and we know their electrical properties. There is no magical new element that could be discovered. Once you know the mathematical equation you can quite easily calculate every possible combination of elements to determine their performance as a battery. The evolution of batteries is just tinkering around with the engineering of the boxes.
@@Paul99T Spot on, matey!
@@Paul99T This kind of logic confounds me! In what way is it evolving? We've had Duracell AA's for decades...no one has improved on that. Same for 12v car batteries. There's absolutely no reason to state that some new kind of battery will be invented unless you have evidence. And by the way, if one were to be invented, existing EVs would become worthless overnight!
If we follow your logic we might as well plan to dismantle the NHS on the grounds that in the future we'll have devices likes Dr McCoy had on Star Trek!
@@tentruesummers9043 It's this kind of "logic" that just makes me facepalm. Clearly you've not bothered to go look at what's going on in the world of battery tech, but you're basically writing off the work of thousands of scientists and industrialists based on..... the existence of a Duracell AA battery? Good grief.
"There's absolutely no reason to state that some new kind of battery will be invented unless you have evidence." - Just google "new battery technologies", there's enough links there - to reputable sources, I might add, not just puff pieces and other crankery - to keep you busy for several hours.
My honest opinion is that the future will involve a lot less personal car ownership and a lot more shared / public transport use.
Or there will be a lot less people...🤔
where is all this new public transport coming from?
🤣 Not in the UK, have you tried public transport lately?
Public transport is communism
I like the way you’re thinking and the fact that you’re putting these thoughts out there to start a public conversation on the topic. Here in the states, Washington State and Utah specifically, the taxation on miles you put on your EV has already begun.
Thanks 👍
One other thing to consider is the impact on industry that uses cheaper 'off-peak' energy. If we are all charging vehicles overnight then the concept of 'off-peak' disappears, along with the cheaper rates. This could significantly raise prices to businesses whose cost model is based on the consumption of cheaper energy. The additional costs will have to be recovered, and who usually has to pay it? The consumer.
I'd argue this is kinda missing the point of moving use to different hours. Off peak is cheap because demand is so low that we have generation capacity that we have to use or find a way to not generate and that is expensive, so getting people to use it is good.
If we through pricing or reactive use mechanisms can eliminate times of very low use it makes the whole grid much cheaper to operate as we avoid a large portion of these costs. You see news about renewables being paid to not generate because it gets clicks, but every form of power generation gets paid to not generate. The flatter the power curve over time the less this happens and it is a huge part of the overall cost. Yes, businesses that specifically use the cheapest electricity at set times will have a worse time of it but that doesn't translate to "we all pay the cost" as the total cost is way lower, so we should all end up reaping the benefits.
I live in a large city (in mainland Europe). There are now exactly two public charging points in my vicinity with two outlets each. There are hundreds, possibly thousands car owners in the area (and it's a nightmare to park around here after like 4PM) with no option of private charging. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like if the amount of EVs increased significantly like it's supposed to in the coming years. And given how long it took for these two charging points to be built, I also can't really imagine the situation changing significantly in a few years time.
We are *not* ready for mass EV use in the slightest.
Why not just say the name of the city ? Lol 😂
@@smashingturnips5353Because it is largely irrelevant and might also invite useless "well that's because country X/city X, dumbass" comments, and because I don't really feel the need to advertise needlessly where I live publicly on the internet.
@@Case_nobody cares about where you live, really.
@@sirprzemekI mean, clearly you do...
You are basically describing my situation. 2 charging spots in somewhat "close" distance of mine but usually occupied. And I would have to drive an EV there first which is roughly 1km in each direction, then walk back home and return to the car and then drive back and search for a parking spot again. It is absurd to even think about what living with an EV would be for someone like me renting a small place in the city. And the kicker? I live in a city near Wolfsburg where Volkswagen is situated and currently producing the next generation of electric vehicles noone can afford. =D
All points raised are very valid. In my home community there have been two apartments built and one under construction and charging for an electric vehicle have not been considered in any of them. There is also the problem that none of the charging stations are pull through so for larger vehicles or any pulling a trailer a real hassle. And why after all these years do the regulating societies not force the manufactures to produce standardised plugs? To me that just shows that regulating authorities are a few million bricks short of a load. Insane. When the internal combustion engine first hit the road the manufactures did not put in their own fuel stations.
Then there is the price gouging for electricity. Sometime needs to be done here.
Now if I could afford to buy one I would have one this afternoon. As a retired person close to 90% of my driving I could charge at home. Trips to the two largest towns in my area for summer and with a long range version I may make it. So even if I topped off on a high speed charger would be fine in the time of a coffee. In the winter I would have a meal and take the time to make sure fully charged for the trip home.
When propane was first used as a fuel I switched. Got several years with my personal and company vehicles of cheap fuel. I look at electric as the same. Once everyone is hooked on electric they will be no cheaper than what we are driving now. Here in B.C. Canada our insurance provider is being underhanded on having us report the mileage on our vehicles when we get insurance. Today they say if you are a low kilometre driver we can get cheaper insurance. What it really is when enough are switched to electric we will be hit with a km charge at the end of the year to replace the road tax electrics are avoiding. Lets face it in the history of mankind there has never been a honest government.
A point of interest for me I hear stories that they can not sell electric vehicles. There is thousands sitting on lots. So can someone explain how the few people I know that are waiting for a electric vehicle cannot get them? You hear there is thousands around unsold, yet you cannot purchase one?
with regards to the estimated range, its often referred to as a guess-o-meter. the algorithm to determine estimated range considers battery capacity, rolling average draw (load), regen, accessories (air-con/heater) and historical data among other things. as the car gathers data, the guess is more accurate, however, outlier trips (a long drive in the country) may skew this data. it's essentially just guessing, because the car doesn't know how you're going to drive. the more consistent the trips you do, the more accurate the guess-o-meter will be
Yeah it's just the same with the displayed tank range in ICE cars. It's better off not to reset them, as you say, as in this video he didn't suddenly get a huge increase in EV range, he just had less of an idea of how far he'd get based on his typical driving. Funny how people really misunderstand this aspect of their predicted range - the clue is the word 'predicted' ;)
Also, outdoor temperature has a big impact on estimated range. The guessometer is a handy tool, but it should be used in conjunction with the actual battery percentage.
Very accurate. I will add that the electric car is currently a waste of freedom…
Great video Pete! We recently faced the dilemma of whether to go for an EV or petrol car. Honestly, it didn't take long to decide to go the petrol route; as much as I love EVs.
Where we live (Western Australia), the infrastructure for public recharging is definitely lacking/inconvenient - at least compared to other fuel options. Not to mention, by the time one shells out for a high kW at home charger and the electrical side to go along with it, they're starting to get pretty darn expensive.
One of my big concerns, is that the uptake of EVs is going to outstrip the capacity of the existing electrical infrastructure - both residentially and publicly. Given the relative snail pace of our infrastructure providers to respond to market conditions, I can definitely see the abolishment of off-peak tariffs as more and more people begin charging their vehicles overnight (ie. large increases in off-peak power draw); which will start to erode some of the cost savings. Similarly, I'm concerned that as EV uptake increases significantly, electrical infrastructure won't be able to physically keep up with this power delivery (substations; transmission lines), as aged/existing systems were never ideally designed to have such high power draws consistently from residential properties (eg. summertime with AC units running; EVs charging etc., the instantaneous power draw from a single residence could easily exceed 10kw; versus a more typical 2-3kw... that's a 2 to 3 fold increase in instantaneous power draw; and we already know how unreliable electrical grids are during peak summer/winter...).
This isn't really a care/concern for the EV makers - they just make the cars; and it's our problem having to charge them... but in the long term, I can see this being quite costly to home owners/general public/tax payers, as the electricity/infrastructure upgrades cost money, and it has to come from somewhere...
👍
Oh no our utilitie company raised our rates up again for the 100th time this year
Exactly Christian. I am in WA too and we have a long way to go yet.
Yep, WA is well behind on it's infrastructure. Sad, given all its mineral, solar and wind advantages.
Everything you're said is true. When the ID(3) was first featured on fully charged 4 or 5 years ago, I was super excited. I've had a Audi Q4 on order for nearly 12 months now. Since I've ordered it, the EV landscape has changed so much that I'm actually quite nervous about buying it. The cost to buy one is crazy. The current price of electricity has completely trashed all of the benefits of forking out for one and we haven't even got to the future tax implications. Overall the cost of ownership of an EV for your average driver probably doesn't make it worth it. In fact, in the current climate, I can quite easily knock up another spreadsheet that tells me to forget EV's and buy a petrol car instead. The price of sustainable electricity needs to come down urgently to make any of this work.
Just a few more windmills should do it
A gallon of petrol is currently approx. £7 with a petrol car lucky to see 40mpg in average conditions.
If you didn't have an EV tariff and pay 35p per kWh. EVs do average 4 miles per kw easily in average driving conditions.
You are getting 80 miles for £7.
If you have an EV tariff that's 240 miles for £7.
And the prices for an ev compared to a similar speced car with similar performance are similar if not less.
Electricity prices will settle down as we transition away from fossil fuels, also the power from my solar panels that I can use to charge my car still costs the same as it did before Putin invaded Ukraine. You are also ignoring the elephant in the room climate change. If we don't transition away from fossil fuels it will cost a lot more in the long run to keep driving a petrol or diesel car.
@@nervousfrog101 Where does one go to learn about the climate change topic? I hear a lot of people talking about it but am having trouble finding reliable/unbiased/evidentiary sources of information.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Cognitive_bias_codex_en.svg
You mention the price of *sustainable* electricity needs to come down, but wind and solar are already by far the cheapest sources of electricity and are only continuing to come down in price. It just takes time to build and install them. If we could snap our fingers and replace all electrical and fuel needs with wind and solar at today's prices we would all be paying substantially less for everything.
Huge swathes of this country have terraced housing with only on street parking. How infrastructure for that is safely tackled is a massive challenge. That is where there has to be either a leap in charging tech or an acceptance of hybrid and alternative fuels to move to net zero. This push for ev for all hasn’t been properly thought through
Hmm, trying to think of any govt change policy that was ‘properly thought through’…
Completely agree. We bought a env200 van 18 months or 15000 miles ago. It's been an absolute joy to drive and does the local deliveries no problem. HOWEVER for longer trips that need a public charge, it's a nightmare. We had to cancel a delivery to Scotland as not a single fast charger in the area was working according to Zapmap. If we hadn't checked we would have been stuck up there for 6 hours on a slow one!!!. To cope with a swap to EVs and Heat pumps we would have had to start building a third more power stations and upgrading the supply network about 10 years ago. As there is still no sign of political leadership or practical answers to these massive issues I think the whole idea is doomed.
Maybe the folks in the US white House should watch this video and think thru it. Biden says all electric by 2035, yeah right. Green movement is ill conceived.
We should have had generating capacity in place 20 years ago! Burning Canadian woodchips to produce electricity is just beyond a joke. The idea that 2030 is achievable is so unrealistic that any politician would be mad to quote it.
It is indeed doomed.
@@rnf1227 but Gov will take ages to see it [and spend even more of taxpayer £££] espec after all the COPT27 BS and PM u-turned to actually attend. Also Charles inviting attendees to BuckHo meant even more private jet-miles - have they no F*ing idea ??
It was never " infrastructured" to survive. It's a distraction before they remove personal transport from the landscape. Go for a drivable historical vehicle , they will allow them after the shut down, as they own the majority ( as showpieces/ investments.
I'm the owner of an EV for 1 month, and totally agree with you on everything you have said. I would not even consider buying an EV without the possibility to have a Walbox on my own parking spot.
@@Elconbrioso Exactly. I believe that’s the point most people don’t get. Also, hunting for free quick chargers to get free energy could cost you more on the long term, since could lead to earlier battery failure.
@@Elconbrioso yes they also say that happens with mobile phones as well.
Never believe the narrative, do your own research.
@@Elconbrioso I don’t think it’s a maybe, I think it’s essential. If not possible due to access, then having a charger at work would probably be a good alternative. Two of my nearest neighbours have already got Tesla model 3s under their respective company car schemes and they both have charging at work already.
But you don't need a wall box - you can charge using house current for almost all your driving.
My VW diesel Golf estate is going to be on the road FOR EVER.
Thousands of people live in multi-storey buildings or don’t have off street parking, they are being totally ignored by this green dream.
Yep, my scenario completely! A significant portion of the population live in flats not houses, where even if they do have parking, there are no chargers present. I'm sure this will change in time but looking at my own area as an example, it won't be any time soon!
That's because our Western societies are not based on need but on profit. China has no trouble selling their EV's (they have 10 Chinese companies and numerous foreign subsidiaries) and no problem outfitting multiple living buildings with chargers. I love our Western freedom but it is a terribly inefficient system to get things done properly.
@@steelcom5976 I beg to differ. China is having a huge problem selling its EV’s and they are dumping them on the world market cut price.
Vehicle and battery factories are closing and thousands of workers are being laid off.
Hit the nail in the head! Huge issue facing us for electrical distribution. Solution will be SMR no other option to avoid distribution investment that cannot be accomplished, but challenge will be producing enough SMR systems for 2030.
Wonderful thoughts on the EV subject. We are being pushed to buy EV without the infrastructure to support it. Living in urban areas without off street parking is one issue, living In rural areas and taking a long ride has its issues as well. The vast majority is not ready for these vehicles, although I am grateful for all the Guinea pigs out there, testing and helping the manufacturers work out all the kinks. I’ll wait for 2035 to buy one. Thank you again for perspective .. spot on!
So that's like building wind and solar and also shutting off nuclear, hydroelectric, coal and gas ---you know, just assume everything will work.
Europe, and Germany in particular, is showing how that tends to work in practice.
Indeed, there is every reason to believe that a lot of EV users will not be able to charge their cars this winter.
In the aftermath of the recent Florida hurricane, people have been unable to charge their cars for weeks.
I don't see anyone being "pushed" to buy an EV.. least not in my view. Are EV manufacturers "pushing" to sell their EVs?... WELL YES!! LOL! For the same reason Nestle "pushes candy in October! For same reason any business pushes anything. Nobody is forcing you to buy one just as Nobody is forcing you to buy a gasoline burning vehicle. You buy one because that's been basically our only option.
Imagine if we'd been driving EVs all along and now out of the blue someone come up with the idea to sell you a gasoline fueled car as an option but their were no gas stations anywhere to speak of.. now the argument would be "their pushing gasoline vehicles on us".. NO THEY ARE NOT! lol! Don't want it?.. don't buy it. Don't want the latest smart 90" flat screen led their gonna try to sell you this Christmas?.. then don't buy it.
The reality today is fuel is not only getting more and more expensive largely do to virtually zero regulation (in prices). Meanwhile the costs to just be of human existence is rising far faster than the wages we earn. Meanwhile is clearly evident that the climate issues we know with 100% absolute certainty exist and each year get worse and each year costs us more and more. And we also know that if our congress won't help us we do have increasingly more options to make better decisions that will help us in climate issues in the long run.. but will help us in the short run as well by almost negating our dependency of oil from our month to month expenses by simply switching to electric vehicles!.. if we can personally!
We all have heard the question "what come first?.. the chicken or the egg"?
... we're in a similar dilemma with EVs.. there's a perception that we need more EV infrastructure before we can effectively get EVs on the roads. Meanwhile our congress or any private business can argue as to why we want EV infrastructure if there's no EVs to use them. It's a never ending death spiral if thats what you get stuck on. However it's clear... there is a HUGE demand and interest in EVs! And the more these orders are filled the more new interest will develop. There's nothing to prove this any different. I would know... been trying to get a Ford Lightning all year! Lol
@@TheProletariat. Well, that’s one man’s opinion and I respect that, but there are many ways that people can be “pushed” into doing something. A “soft” push can be just as effective as a hard push and governments are experts at doing just that. You will acquiesce either way and we’ll do exactly as we’re told - but you’ll think it’s your own decision. As for climate change, there’s an hypocrisy surrounding that. What we don’t do in our countries, others will double down in theirs, and that I know for sure. We can only hope for the best!! Cheers
@@PLaTerra yes there certainly is many ways someone can be persuaded.. convinced.. enticed.. lured.... and yes I suppose pushed.. but I just don't see people today being pushed to buy an EV. There are incentives to buy one! I suppose that could be viewed as a "push". But certainly not like your being forced.
But.. times change.. fuel is expensive and oil companies are getting away with it despite all the people complaining. I'd have zero issue allowing the folks who want to burn gas continue to do just that. But as demand falls the corporate powers at be will cut production to maintain high profit margins.. you just won't win. It will get even more expensive to burn gas in years to come. I'd rather wash my has of it! Eventually you will too and many more will follow.
But we need reviews like this to get us there! Because these problems with charging is not attractive to many.. or just not possible for many
Excellent Paul. That sums it up nicely!!
Here in US we have lots of full-sized pickup trucks. I use and actually need mine on almost a daily basis even though I'm retired and don't use it for work. A hobby I have requires that I pull a 16ft enclosed trailer and we all know about the recent test someone did where the pickup with a trailer only got about 85 mile range. I can only imagine what it would be like if you were driving in a state with mountains like Colorado. Occasionally, I take my trailer on longer trips which would reall suck if I had to stop every 85 miles. So, for the range problem alone, I don't see this as a practical solution even for 2030.
Yep, I'll be long dead before this battery revolution takes place.
Try to pull that trailer into a charging station
How often do you stop now with gas? I imagine the MPG is not great pulling a trailer either...
Where is all this added demand for electricity coming from. The grid in the US can't keep up already
@@ghostbond1074But it doesn't take over an hour to fill your tank like EV"s
Good video talking about some of the realities that a lot of people gloss over when talking about EVs. I love the idea of an electric car, and probably more than 90% of my driving could easily be done with one that has a 150km range. I also live where having a charger at home wouldn't be an issue. However, I did the math a few years ago to see if I could save money by buying an ev, and the answer was basically no. I drive a used Ford Focus, and like it enough I'd buy another, and conveniently enough I could have bought one then that was either gas or electric powered. The electric version cost nearly double what the gas version cost, and I would have had to drive about 320,000km to save a penny with the electric. Now that gas prices have gone up a bunch, that would drop to about 250,000km to break even. So as a purely money saving measure, it doesn't make sense for me to buy a new EV over buying a new gas car, and factoring in that a used gas car with about half its serviceable life left is about 1/4 the price of a new one, an EV makes even less sense.
There are other 'sudden' costs, from what I see. A lot of the first-generation wall chargers are not up to scratch, so users are being encouraged to install the latest models which are faster/more efficient/easier to use, and other handy sales pitches.
The tax originally generated by fuel tax is shifting to being charged in cost of annual registration tax, at least in California.
I appreciate you ding this video, because the biggest challenge people like myself seem to face is actually trying to discuss these things. Many EV owners seemed to have positioned themselves on a lofty perch and won't listen to the rest of us because they're saving the planet and the rest of us don't matter. WE automatically become lesser mortals because we still drive an ICE car. As soon as you say anything even slightly negative they're either on the defensive, defending anything and everything about them, or they're on the attack and the rest of us don't know what we're talking about because we don't own one.
Anyway, here goes....
For me you've hit the nail on the head. The fact that the vast majority of people do not buy new cars and can not afford to buy an EV is a big issue, but the number one problem is that almost half the population don't have a driveway or garage. Try to discuss this with an EV owner and the general response is something like "not our problem, if you can't accommodate an EV then you can't have a car because the government says so and you're killing the planet".
But the other major point until now is cost. "They're cheaper". No they're not, you pay more to buy them in the first place and if you don't have your own home charging facilities, as we all know (but EV owners won't accept, not least because they won't consider the initial purchase cost), they're no cheaper to run than a diesel car. There are other cost issues too, they're more expensive to insure (I believe the Tesla Model 3 is the highest group, way higher than my Jag XF), they more likely to be scrapped after an accident because of the repair costs, especially if the batteries are involved - even a cracked battery casing can see a car scrapped - which means as insurance companies spread the cost we're ALL paying higher premiums as a result, so thanks for that EV buyers. And parts that may fail, although there are fewer of them, are also expensive - motors, touchscreens, and so on.
But few people ever mention the fact that they're cheaper to run because the "fuel" isn't taxed in the way that fossil fuel is, so as you have rightly pointed out when that balance is redressed the chances are they will actually be even more expensive to run than ICE cars. In fact the more you look at it, the more it looks like they're trying to force people off the roads because if you add the extra costs back into the EV equation even fewer people will be able to afford to own one. All this is on top of the other problems they create, problems that according to EV owners don't exist of course so I'm not going to waste my time with them, but for me the only chance we have of retaining any choice is to reject EVs en masse. Of course, if you can afford all that you won't care about the rest of us.
Thanks for this 👍
They are not for everyone and each country is different.
I owned an Audi Q5 diesel from 2019-2022 before purchasing my Tesla Model 3 (different car completely I understand) but could apply in most part to a Model Y.
I owned the car for 3 1/2 years and put 76,000 km on the clock (just over 47k miles). I spent $A6,600 in services, $A3200 in tyres and consumables and $A12,800 in diesel. That was $22,600 (12,000 pounds) or roughly 30c per km / 25.5p per mile. The car cost $92,000 (48,700 pounds). (cars are cheaper in Aus)
I sold it an bought a Model 3 which uses 117 Wh/km or 188wh/mile to drive the exact same routes and I pay 26c per kw/h (14p), there are no scheduled services ($0 so far), I am on original tyres after 25,000km (15.5 k mi) I estimate 40,000km or 25,000 mi for the change at $1600 (850 pounds). It cost $A60,000 (31,600 Pounds). I could have the equivalent model Y which is larger than the Q5 for $65,000 (34,500 pounds) with very marginally more consumption, so even adding 20% to account for the larger car in the model Y that works out to be 8.4c per km / 7.2p per mile (less than 1/3rd the operating cost) for a car that costs $27,000 (14,000 pounds) less upfront, with better performance and much greater convenience than the Q5.
I understand you can't yet do this with cheaper cars with no home charging, and maybe that's your point, is it makes a whole lot of sense for people who have a house and can afford a $95k (50k pound) car in the first place. (BTW the insurance is cheaper on the Tesla even pro rata per insured $) but cheaper EV's will come, they will be cheaper than the equivalent ICE cars in the not too distant future, access to charging will come, there are more charging / refuelling options already today for EV's than the petrol car owner had in the 1940's, that changed post war, just like it will with EV infrastructure.
Meanwhile a large percentage of these people are charging their car with electricity derived from fossil fuels.
@@ronskancke1489If we take a snapshot in time yes most EVs are charged using fossil. However if we take a snapshot in time in 15 years the reverse will be true. The transition is in it's very early stages and most people against EVs don't take this into account.
The EV's use equivalent amount of fossil fuels from builds to charging electricity made with fossil fuel up until 200K miles. So that knocks them off their perch .
Really appreciated your thoughtful comments. Here are some about my circumstances and the problems I face.
I am the Body Corporate Chairperson of a 30-yo apartment building in Brisbane, Australia. Luckily, the EV take-up in Australia is slower because we are such a large country (the size of continental USA, with a LOT of desert in the middle). Also, there has been little Government incentives for EV adoption.
The challenges of reverse-engineering our 20+-storey, 100+ apartment building for EV uptake are like you said, but on steroids. The biggest risk is that someone will try to install charger for their spot in the common area, then another, then another, .... The result will not have any standardisation, overall load balancing or total draw regulation, and will make it impossible to then implement infrastructure to manage load in the context of not only EV demand but also the normal residents' demands for the power used by their apartments.
As yet, we have no idea of the capacity of the cable into our building, nor the electrical supply authority's ability to deliver power through it in context of other loads in the high-density area we live in.
There are multiple solutions being proposed for our building, but only the expensive options take into account overall building demand (i.e. including the normal apartments' requirements).
There were concerns that residents might try and charge their vehicles from normal 10A 230v 3-pin sockets in common area, using power paid for by all residents. Thus there's the question of how to recover the electricity costs on a user-pays basis and who manages the cost recoveries.
For now we have had to implement a By-Law that says something like "The charging of electric vehicles in the scheme is prohibited". That, in turn, has a increasingly-deleterious effect on resale values of apartments.
Not an easy situation. We can alleviate it by investing A$100,000 or more in a proper infrastructure that takes into account ALL of those concerns. It can be done, but then we face the question of an aging resident population who will probably make their existing car "go the distance" and really not be interested in making an investment of the required magnitude.
For example, I would LOVE to have an EV, but I have a 2010 German 5-door car that does everything I want, with a 3.0 TDI engine that achieved 5.2 litres per 100KM on the motorway today (and 7.3 litres/100K live-to-date), has done only 113,000 Km in 12 years and is in great condition By the time it hits 200,000Km, I will be well over 80 years old. Why should I want to invest in a full EV infrastructure re-fit (and I am an early-adopter of technology and am a leading proponent)? I am not planning on selling the apartment, so why make the investment? I suspect I am typical of our residents.
No easy answers yet - so we will just wait and see. Maybe Hydrogen power will win?
Great video👍1/ If EVs were such a great idea, there would be no need for a cut-off point for ICE cars, people would be falling over one another to get one. 2/ You're spot on regarding the loss of taxes to the government & I think this will be overcome by road pricing (pay by the mile) in the future. 3/ Be very, very wary about anything that the government is pushing, it usually turns out to be a bad deal! i.e. Being told (by the then Labour government) that the way to go was diesel, it being better for the environment🙄
My wife & i have bought a renault zoe as a second car runaround (we still own a petrol SUV). We have 2 options within 1 mile of our house to fill up for FREE at 22kW speed (We live in Scotland). We are very lucky in this respect and i know not many places available to do this in the UK. In the zoe this is basically 1/2 tank in 1 hour or full tank in approx. 2hrs ish (giving 100 /200ish city miles of complimentary driving ...in summer at least). We dont do that many miles per week so this is more than enough. One of the chargers is on my way to the gym so i can stop off there once a week and walk to gym and then come back and im done charging for the week without range anxiety always in the back of our minds. We didnt bother to instal home charger as at the moment we dont need one. We are actually starting to use our zoe for as greater percentage of our driving as possible because it is essentially free fuel motoring. Its become a fun challenge. We even got 2 push bikes in the back for a weekend away recently. I think large charging stations at places like gyms and supermarkets may be the answer for flat owners etc. with speeds of charge getting faster 20 min shop will be enough to get a good range in the tank. The problem, as mentioned in the video is that the costs of charging your car varies so much at public stations. If u can charge for 7p overnight at home and pay 5% VAT only (versus 20% VAT at public charger) seems no brainer. I sometimes think of it in relation to filling at a gas station. You wouldnt find shell charging 50p per litre and BP charge £2 per litre. maybe needs regulation if government are really wanting a clean energy shift away from petrol/diesel
You are so right. Already in California, Edison charges upwards of $0.70 kWh if you don't want to suffer without AC between 4pm and 9pm. At $0.70 kWh, this makes most EVs really get around 20mpg. And more likely that electricity prices will continue to rise much faster than gas. It already has over the last decade.
Sorry to hear you are paying Commifornia so much.
In the midwest I pay .10 cents/kw on off peak.
Sounds like it's time to move.
But you could charge off-peak, at least most of the time, right?
@@8thman8no, he voted for this mess he can stay there and sit in it
@@8thman8 maybe if you freaks stopped biblethumping we'd consider it
If Robert is paying .70 he's on the wrong rate plan. I live in a valley in So Cal (it's hotter here) & SCE charges a *max* of .59 during *peak* time. It's only .27 per kWh overnight, which is when most of us would charge the car.
So glad your raising this issue Pete, I actually tried an electric car for around 6 months. However I’m in the camp where I don’t have access to a home wall charger. Our street is completely off street parking so my only option was a granny cable out the window and hoped no one tripped over it and wait a day for it to charge or use public infrastructure. The likes of InstaVolt are now charging 0.66p per KWH, with a usable battery of 72 KWH, if I was filling up from almost empty (with a little in reserve for emergencies) it was costing me approximately £45 and with the car only getting around 250 miles per charge as a lot of my journeys are motorways or A roads at 60 mph (I live in the Cotswolds and as you will know everything is spaced out) it just wasn’t cost or time efficient. I spent some nights at 10pm waiting for over an hour for the car to charge to make sure I had enough charge in it for whatever journey I had to do the following day or two. I had also looked in to the possibility of getting a driveway installed and asked permission to get a dropped curb from council but was rejected due to our road having something called covenant which basically forbids anyone in our road from having driveways… So the electric car had to go, back in to a brand new F40 135i and I don’t regret it. I’m getting 40mpg on my commute to work so it works out the same kind of cost without the hassle of charging. This is a topic that need a LOT more debate as the Government have not taken this in to account 1 bit. If and when I can have a wall charger I wouldn’t hesitate to swap back to an electric car, but without its hassle and as or more expensive then fuel.
A perfect example of what I was talking about 👍
I have none of those issues. I park it in our garage or under the car port and charge it; outlets a few feet away. Costs about $1.50 in electricity for 36 mile round trip.
"my only option was a granny cable out the window and hoped no one tripped over it" ..... where there's blame, there's a claim. Another issue no one's discussing. Just sayin'!
@@glossypeacock7552 That’s my point exactly. I didn’t do it for the exact reason you stated. I lay a cable across the path to charge my car, a school child walking home from school or a dog walker out at night and they fall and god forbid break their hip or something serious it would of been my neck in the loop. I live in a quiet road with no through road, it’s a dead end at the end of the road (unless you carry on in to the farmers field full of sheep and I couldn’t get permission for a wall box from my council and I was prepared to do it properly get the required permits etc have a driveway laid etc. I hate to think about all the people that live in flats or high rise buildings with literally no hope. Government needs to get a grip. Then again they’ve not got a grip with sod all at the moment so…. Who knows, but for now, for me and my circumstances ICE power is the only way. We also have zero public transport. Have a station but only 2 trains a day stop there just for the commuters in to London or Oxford but that’s your lot, no busses and forget a taxi. If you ask for a taxi to my village most taxis will say either never heard of the place or not going there….
@@Theurgicnick Hi Nick and thanks for your full and considered response. Apologies, my comment was not directly aimed at yourself, just a generalisation. We all know the zero level of consideration for pedestrians that some entitled people will display when charging their vehicle on-road and we all know the number of scam merchants there are out there who will manage to present a litigation case however considerate you have been with your on-road charging. A double whammy which, as previously stated, is not being discussed at this time. Have a great weekend!
The best and most comprehensive & honest review of an EV that has ever been placed on TH-cam so far mate 🙏🙏
Thanks Bud 👊
Agreed 👍🏻
It was a great presentation and point of view/centre of debate. However I dont think we watched the same video.🤷🏼♂
@@jsouto77 🤔🤔
It's dead simple ........THEY DO NOT WANT YOU TRAVELLING, its as simple as that ! Work from home order shopping it'll come to you,use the transport they offer only ! It's not even good for the environment,synthetic fuel is the way !
Thanks for telling the truth. I can't make the EV work financially no matter what I do. The "incentives" and "tax breaks" will all evaporate once they get us all transitioned to EV. What will be the option? There won't be one. You'll do what they say, and like it. They know what's best.
Politicians are complete idiots and morons and that's the border line single thing about them. Never trust a liar political figure
In Germany there are a total of 90,000 public charging points. (85 million ppl). Tax on energy, regardless of source (petrol/diesel/gas/electric, is currently around 55%.
I’ve had an EV for the past 5 years and I’ve always lived in an apartment. The charging infrastructure has been steadily growing over the years in Luxembourg where I live. I had to do a lot of planning around charging, especially with my previous BMW i3 with the 33kw battery. Since then, things are a lot better as far range is concerned and I’ve only experienced anxiety once in my new Kia Soul. For me the thing is planning. I know a lot of people just want to get in and go but by living with a smaller battery for a few years, I leaned on using navigation and charging apps so that charging was never a big issue. Knowing I can switch to Eco plus to save energy and get there a few minutes later or knowing that a certain part of my trip is mostly down hill and I only use a quarter of the range normally required is all part of learned strategies in EV ownership. Also since I use public chargers I track my cost and except for road trip fast chargers my costs are a lot less than my friends gas car for the same distance (.06 vs .085 euros per kilometer, based on last road trip). Also for 90% of my driving, I’m in the city so my car charges overnight (cost is by kw and not charged by time connected) at a local 24hr free parking garage, where the government just installed 65 22kw chargers. (Luxembourg also has free public transportation) This was a long post and I didn’t get into the gas tax revenue problem but EV ownership is doable for apartment dwellers.
Great post but in the UK the public charging network bump up the price if your car is connected over a certain time, so overnight charging will cost so much money. Although 8t seems harsh I think it's done so that you free up the charger for someone else to use which isn't a bad thing
You're a lucky one, there is a single public charger in town here (for 7000+ inhabitants), and I have never seen anyone use it, so I don't know if it even works. This mean I will try to keep my little Fiesta for as long as possible.
Good to hear these issues being discussed. I drive a hybrid Outlander. About 70% of my driving is on EV - even though it has a tiny range of 20-30 miles. My commute is 20 miles and I charge at work to come home. Even with my small 9.8KW battery it uses about the same amount of electricity as the rest of my house - so based on my average commute if we all had EV only - twice the amount of electricity generation capacity would be needed. Apart from the chargers at work I mainly charge at home as the public chargers are expensive. At least I don't have range anxiety as I alway have petrol in the tank and can fill up more if needed.
May be plug in hybrids should be considered as an option instead of just EV only in the future.
I agree with the hybrid option! I live in an apartment building with no plug so no PEV for me but I and do HEV (Looking at the new 2023 Prius Hybrid AWD which does 50mpg).
Hybrid is answer!
Best of both worlds!
👍
I have always thought about the same thing every time I pull into a service station on my way up to Scotland. I drive a petrol car and I only stop for a break but if in the future everyone has an EV and it still takes an hour to fully charge, I dread to think about the queues and amount of congestion at these services.
Don't forget you can only stop at the services for 2hrs, some more some less but if there's a queue and you have no range then add the £100 fine for overstaying on top.
It's happening now and being reported on daily
@@garyhall3835 Depending on the country thats a rare case... Its not 2013 anymore... Unless youre one of the guy living in bumfuck nowhere than you might have a keg to stand on. 👀
@@samusaran7317 I drive a diesel 7 seater, I'm not against ev but I don't have parking space and can't have a wall box but in the motorway service stations in the UK it's not uncommon to have 5 ev charge stations and that's it, always a queue. Tesla superchargers are plentiful and mainly always have space. The parking limits are standard across all motorway service stations, 2hr maximum wait for free after that £100 fine in the mail
I drive an EV in the US. Almost always, you are charging at home, so the question is moot. But charging up at a Supercharger on the road is at most a 30 minute process. And that is coming down as the newer chargers come online.
Why dont we just put solar panels on the car?
Great video sir. You made some great points and you are 100 percent correct on the home charging. We recently had a Mach E as a loaner car from the dealer and obviously I don’t have the means to charge at home. It was a total disaster. The charging stations near my home were very very slow or non functioning.
My second thought was also something you mentioned on price per kilowatt. My belief, here in the U.S. anyway, is that when the majority of people are forced to swap and become dependent on the EV cars, are they going to jack the prices way up making ownership just as expensive as owning a gasoline or diesel fuel automobile? I think if you currently own an EV, enjoy it while you can.
$8k an electricians quote to upgrade & install a Level 2 charging unit in my garage That's it no EV 4 me my house was built in the 60s needing the upgrades overnight home charging was the only thing that made sense & I'm not going through the anxiety of an hour to charge at stations that may or may not be working properly the nation's infrastructure is not ready for EVs
@@empowerimpact6324 8 grand? Thats insane. Where do you live?
@robertf3340 this is America Chicago
Geez. I’m I. Southern California so I’m sure it’s just as expensive.
I can highly recommend a petrol car.
Thank you! You've laid a hand on my shoulder, slowed me down, and given me enough to think about, leading me to not rush out to buy an ev for some time--although I'm now 83 years old. Public transit in Montréal is excellent.
As I am nearly 80 Douglas, are you as pleased as I am that we will not be around to see the problems that will arise in the 2040s if the EV solution to everything keeps on being pushed down our throats!
Talented: if I was back in a city, I would not have a car. Unnecessary expense. When I was living in a major city I had a car but that was because of my job which sent me off to businesses many miles (sometimes100s) away. But it was expensive and I had to jockey around to park, worry about vandalism etc. Be happy that Montreal has great services - the more they are used, it helps pay for it. 😎🐈⬛👍
I'd rather walk than ride the bus with the riff-raff. I will never switch to a battery-powered car. Too many ballaches.
GREAT POINTS MADE!! Never thought about the transfer of taxes from petrol ⛽️ to electricity. They wont let that go away.😂
It is inevitable, roads will still need to be maintained.
OIL INDUSTRY LIES
Tax will not be transferred to electricity as this creates all sorts of issues. It will be charged per mile.
Do you think the sun will charge you more for electricity
I have a EV and a home charger and I love it, but you are right about people who don’t have this it will be a complete nightmare for them!
I too have not had to use a public charger yet as I charge from home and go.
Great video 👍
Here in the US I believe the road tax will come from the registration and the miles when we get our vehicles inspected (MOT) once a year.
Why do we need to get yearly inspections? Might be better to remove them and pay for travel in other ways.
Our electricity rates have gone through the roof over the past few years. I have a Mazda6 2.2L diesel and plan to keep it a long time. I'm aretired electrician and still don't want an electric car. Great points you raise!👍🍻🤔
Classic bait and switch. Early adopters will get hit the absolute worst. Good Times.
I have a Mazda 2.2L Diesel Auto; it's a keeper!
My electricity rates haven't ever increased. They're free, as long as there is a sun in the sky.
@@thejdgoodwin I'm cobbling together a very DIY, Heath Robinson solar system, and it is not cheap. Absolutely not an option for many.
Though I think the "how long until it pays for itself" obsession is nonsense. The first time I can have hot food after an earthquake or typhoon is when it's "paid for itself".
It’s not bait and switch, more of a forced venture.
A Grand learning experience for all!
I feel like you have channeled my thoughts. I drive a Gen1 Fiat 5ooe, which, at best has a 70 mile range going downhill with a tail wind. I live in a Flat without parking, which means no wall box or even Level 1 charging availability. My daily commute is only 7 miles each way, but San Francisco is famous for its terrain of steep hills.
In the morning commute, I gain back all of my used range because of regen braking and a downhill direction. However on the return trip, I loose 25 miles in range due to the steep terrain and fierce winds. No one ever told me that EV range isn't linear; temperature, terrain and speed all impact it.
I have to charge every second day, and spend a lot of my time looking for a charger that is available, working and or not defective. Sadly, I'm thinking of going back to an ICE vehicle, because even if I sell the Fiat for a new Kia, or Hyundai EV, I'm still going to live with that ever present range anxiety.
How far would you go in South Dakota when the temp is -25 and the next charging station may be over 200 miles away. You will probably die of hypothermia before you have enough juice to drive 20 miles.
Range anxiety and driving around looking for a charger would slowly drive me nuts. The constant nag of wondering if I dare use the car just in case I get stranded without charge is enough to put me right off getting an EV.
@@andyhowlett2231honestly, that’s not the way it works out at all. Range anxiety is a myth - it’s no different from making sure you have enough petrol- but you do need to do a little extra planning to ensure that there is charging available if you’re going on a long journey. That said, people here are doing 250km+ journeys on one charge with no drama whatsoever.
It definitely is a little more hassle than driving a petrol car, but if you have home charging your ‘fuel’ costs are much less - £5-10 for 300 miles, far less parts than an ICE, & a generally quicker, quieter & more responsive drive.
Of course, you have to pay for a home charger, but in that case, you have your fuelling done at home.
@@andyhowlett2231idk why that is such a panic for you. By time everyone gets an EV, ranges will be between 300-350 miles. In the future chargers will be all over the place because they are building hundreds more nationwide as we speak, so why worry about this at all? Driving an EV will be almost as easy as driving a gas vehicle. The cold does not effect your EV as much as people say it does
My brother has a Chevy Bolt and a charge station at home. He pointed out to me that, living in Canada, the range changes significantly depending on the season. In the dead of our winters a lot of the stored energy needs to go just to keep you comfortable in the cabin, else you freeze. For this reason they have a gas (petrol) truck for travelling distances and try to keep the Bolt for shorter commutes because you can't trust the range when you start out.
And plus lithium batteries wont charge below a certain temperature.
@@tyronenelson9124 My Bolt charges perfectly fine in the winter, even below 0 degrees F (-18 C). Apparently, GM is better at engineering vehicles than Dell.
Also, the heat and humidity if you live in Southern United States where you have to run A/C. Plus, the battery gets hot and can be a charging issue from what i have seen on other TH-cam videos.
@@dan537 It charges because it heats the batteries, so they can take a charge
Took a while to get to the points but when you got there they're all spot on and something I have been saying too for a while.
For me the ev is still pointless. I have off street parking and could charge at home but I only do 3000 miles a year at most. My old V6 Merc is doing no harm to anyone, even my bank account.
What you said about the power needed to each street is exactly right. Most people don't understand just how much the infrastructure would need upgrading if everyone went to an EV, you would have to dig up nearly every street in the country, and you would need millions of tons of copper.
It’s not just the digging up of the streets most domestic properties have single phase supplies, to cope with EV charging and heat pumps etc the house would need to be changed over to a three phase supply. New supply cable to house along with new consumer unit and re configure house wiring a huge undertaking. The sad thing is the vocal minority who are steering the spineless clueless politicians down a path to economic disaster all suffer from the same symptom, ignorance is bliss until the reality sinks in ?.
@@neilashdown6854 100% bro 👍 When we start having blackouts, no doubt they will be the first ones to complain too.
Copper and rare earth minerals that China owns 90% of the worlds supply of. Folks simply don’t think before they mandate impossible to achieve crap.
Great video. You have highlighted everything I have been telling my friends about the forthcoming, but as yet undiscussed, EV issues.
Anyone remember when we were all encouraged to go LPG? Burns far cleaner than petrol or diesel, fills up the tank only a little slower, ICEs performed very similar on LPG to petrol, and it was half the cost. People paid thousands to get their cars converted and then the government loses interest. I can run on petrol or LPG, but I no longer have an LPG supplier in my area... just great! I personally wouldn't trust a thing that the government or the mainstream media ever says. Lies, bullshit and propaganda... in your heart's you all know that EVs will be just as costly to run as fossil fuels once they are the majority of road users.
Very good points. I’m an American that owns a Chevy Bolt EV. We have 120v consents here, although you can get 240v consents installed easily enough. Most people with enough cash to buy a new electric car here have their own garage in which to park and charge their cars, so it is less of a problem here (my car, which is four years old, does not even have fast charge capability). My sons live in flats, one has a charging station and the other does not, so it it would be difficult for them, even the one with the charging station, to own an EV. But I, like you, really love mine. I have a RAV4 hybrid when I need to go long distances, but even at 120v, I can recharge overnight since we rarely drive more than 75 miles per day. Good discussion!
As electricity prices soar and supply reliability diminishes, you also have the cost of charging at home which is not cheap and will only get worse, if you are luck enough to have a home charger and garage. Most people today cannot afford a home and garage.
Don’t those refineries and gas pumps run on electricity too? The extra costs are handed down to the consumer, gas doesn’t get any cheaper. Maintenance of the vehicle is next to nil on a Tesla. My RAV4 isn’t as cheap. It isn’t just about gas prices.
Perfectly summed up. All the points that you made about EV ownership are ones that I thought about as I was due to change my car earlier this year, as the PCP deal came to an end.
Thankfully, I realised that without access to a home charger that changing to an EV would be a bad move, so I kept my diseal car and I'm very happy with it!
Probably one of the best clear-eyed analyses on the subject I’ve heard so far. Well done.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Also, let's not forget that government officials can simply "turn off" any electric vehicle at any time, should they deem it necessary. The technology is there to do so. Imagine if you're stuck in a snow storm and your local political tyrant decides to remotely switch your EV to off. Or, what if you're late on your payments by a day or two? So much for freedom.
@@matsfreedom Oh, our government would never do that! They can be trusted, completely.
(Remember: “Safe and Effective”?)
Excellent video which highlights the issues of which us EV owners are aware. I live in rural France and in a recent visit to the UK I formed the opinion that the charging infrastructure in the UK is falling behind the game compared with mainland Europe. Here I have five public chargers within five kilometres of my rural home but I struggled to find that many on the M25! 😂
I haven’t bothered with a 7kw home charger for my Kia eNiro at home as I am retired and don’t use the car every day so leave the car plugged in to the 2.1 kw charge for overnight cheap rate charging. I wonder if the UK government will outlaw home fast charging points to deal with the electricity demand issue.
7kw home charger is not fast, if we had to downgrade to a 2.1kw it would take ages to charge up, in the UK overnight electricity tariffs are only cheaper on dedicated eV tariffs, and even then only for about 4 hours, so at 2.1kw that time frame is not enough, and this is from an ev owner on that tariff.
@@rickster30
Indeed, for a four hour charge on a 7KW home charger, you can put 28Kw/h maximum into your car. Just multiply the Kw power of the charger, by the number of hours of the charge, and that's the Kilowatt hours which has been put into your car. Most homes like mine probably would not be allowed to install two 7Kw wall boxes, as our incomng power connection won't support those, and other possible things. We are also connected to the same overhead main cable as next door too. This means we can't upgrade to 100 amps without it costing us a small fortune. So, if we had two EVs (rather than one EV and one diesel car) we would have to share that 7Kw cheaper rate power by charging each car on alternate nights. That's no good at all if both of us want to do a fair bit of separate trave!ling around at the same time. For the dark dull sunless days (we have solar and a battery) the home battery is charged around the same time as the car, overnight and the washer goes on if needed. That's about 13.5 KW of power (56 amps at 240 volts) being pulled from the grid at some points. Starts are delayed slightly to avoid surges! Adding Another 30 odd amps for a second wallbox could blow our 80 amp service fuse fo sure!
@@rickster30 You are of course right about the 2.1kw thing but I was just speculating on what the UK government may do in the circumstances Pete outlined. For reference, a full charge for me at home on cheap rate night electricity currently costs about 8 Euros.
@@tidfordjunction The grid should have no issue if everyone stays within the maximum power limits of their homes.. when you charge with 7Kw during the night, not much else is happening and demand for electricity is low, so should be no problem to have two cars at 7Kw each within the same home... Having smart chargers, like a zappi, would help a lot to keep everything within the limits... you do not have to charge at 7Kw all the time, can be less if needed and still wake up with a full battery in each car.
A recent video described an EV drive from Germany to England. At his European stops it seemed all charging stations were on line. Also notice that they were all sponsored/owned by Shell Oil. On reaching home soil in England it was a real drop off in availability, mostly because of off-line issues.
You're correct that if you live in a flat or have no parking at home its a different problem -although other countries outside the UK seem to be addressing this by investment.
The other point about keeping your EV charged I think is less valid because in the last six months we have had a large number of very high speed chargers (250-350 kWs) installed within 20 miles of our house and this is happening all over the UK (finally!) This means if you keep say 30 miles of charge in your car you can get to any of these easily and my car will charge from 20-80%in just over 10 mins which is not much longer than stopping at a busy petrol station to fill up.
EV 's are a lose lose situation in many ways. Eco warriors preach about small changes in lifestyle, but it is far more complex than that. You are absolutely spot on with the points that you mention here, I have had many conversations on this subject. The average family can't afford a new electric car, and the old ones in their price range are well used and have depleted range so need charging more often, and not everyone can charge from home. The Government made us accept jobs many miles away from home, and threw in very unsociable hours on top of that, so I definitely need a car to get there as public transport which will be far too expensive then is not even running at the times I need to travel. We lead very busy lifestyles with family responsibilities, so sitting at the side of the road every day charging is a big ask when you need to be somewhere for family. You mention tax, yes it has to come from somewhere, and it will be the same road tax rebranded as Eco tax, also home electricity will be split and whatever your home charger uses will be calculated at a higher rate than the rest of your home appliances. They think we are all stupid, but they do this every time, tell us diesels are cheap and cheerful so we all buy them, then increase the road tax and put the price of diesel above petrol. It is my opinion that they are just trying to price the lower classes off the road, telling them to use public transport instead, as I said in my case that is just not possible, and it will be very expensive too so struggling families may not be able to afford to travel to work so will be out of a job. Cars will end up like Concorde, a rich persons toy.
It's going full circle just like a 1900 a car was the rich person's toy it'll go back to that again it actually already has
EVs will soon be cheaper to manufacture than gas cars. The cost has already plummeted. The only thing keeping prices high right now is that supply can't keep up with demand, so car companies boost the price until pre-orders get under control. You can't blame car companies for charging what they do if there's a six-month backlog at the current price. Saying no one is buying EV's because they're too expensive reminds me of the Yogi Berra quote "No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
Steven unfortunately I think you are correct they are trying to price people on lower incomes of the road.
@@truhartwood3170 How will it be cheaper to dig up the 500,000lbs of earth for the minerals necessary for one battery. Dug up, not by EVs but diesel powered machines. How sustainable is that?
@@lancastrian413 that’s the dirty little secret of ev batteries; they’re super expensive, their cost won’t go down over time, but will go up, and they destroy the environment.
All extremely good points and ones that I've been pondering and posing here and on other channels.
As for the Mach E, don't confuse the range - which is a forecast - with actual range. By resetting the system you don't actually gain any real-world range, in fact you're likely to fool yourself into running out of electrons on a long journey by thinking you have more than you actually do.
You make a really valid point about what happens to people without their own charging station. But the infrastructure required to generate and deliver is a more critical point. Take the miles/kWh times the average miles driven by everyone in Britain - and ask where those XWatts (it's a very large number) is going to come from. And that's just for passenger cars - what about larger vehicles. I think someone is trying to legislate away supply and demand. (We have the same issue in the US.)
Hi Pete. Very informative chat. Living in Canada. West coast. I have a Tesla model Y. 2024. And my daughter drives a Fiat 500e. With our schedule and lifestyle. For now. We’ve been just using the level 1 wall outlet charging. And it works fine for us. For daily use. It charges up to our commute range daily no prob. Now. If I’m going on a long trip. Usually you plan trips ahead. I would leave it charging to 100% on my long range model Y. Which would get me around 308 miles/496kms. So not always necessary to have a level 2 charger. Could plug in at work too if needed.
As for taxes. That’s a given. That revenue will always comes from area of convience. Driving is convience. So is Starbucks coffee. People will always tolerate paying the tax for convience. My take is, if all the elec cars are plugged in. And it’s staining the elec grid. Maybe one day. The government would subsidize solar panels on each home. Or a rebate plan. Yo eaze the load on the power grid.
Hi Pete, If everyone had EVs and you were to stand and count the cars that go through a garage every hour that's how many charging points you will need, in fact you will need more because those cars will be stuck there for an hour. A the infrastructure will not cope and as you pointed out tax will rise on EVs making them uneconomical. Even some manufacturers are having second thoughts
Who are they then?
One issue with your comment regarding counting cars going thru a filling station and claiming that is the amount of charge points that would be required!
You obviously didn’t listen to his comments that he had a home charger and in fact the vast majority of EV users at this time do have home chargers. Take that factor into your thinking and now work out that if 95% of EV users have home chargers that is going to make a big factor in who will use a public charger so you would have to reduce your calculation by some considerable degree as most of these EV users are only gong to use a public charger on very rare occasions
I personally have been using an EV for 3 years and Rarely use a public charger, I would estimate less than 10 times in a year.
As the transition to EV starts to move on more people that do not have the ability to charge on their driveway will increase but street chargers are expanding and car park chargers will also expand. New builds of more than one dwelling are now required to have a certain degree of EV spaces within the residence car parks. As regulation moves forward there will need to be expansion of destination chargers as well as route chargers.
@@brianstevenson9967 So where is this power going to come from? The wind doesn't blow all the time and the sun shines less than 50% of the time. If your answer is not nuclear you are just barking up the wrong tree.
@@brianstevenson9967 Brian: do you drive an EV? How many miles of driving per hour do you get from a home charger? I ask because I've heard it pretty low. Also, if you don't have a garage and have an outside charging station on your house, do you have any problems with other people using your electricity for free?
@rickraber1249 my EV does 4 miles to the kwh as an average over the year. My tariff has a 7 hours cheap period @ 9p per kwh. So my charger could in theory put in 49kwh into the battery, which is 196 miles. And you can normally stop folk using the charger by putting a pass code in.
Hi mate, work in the fire service. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned alot is when two lithium battery power cars crash and go on fire. The lithium batteries take hours to make Safe. We have attended one house fire and the garage went on fire with a electric car inside(charging did not start fire) it took longer than expected to control the fire and to make Safe. Just putting it out there for thoughts/experiences
but what was the cause of the house fire? The EV? EV charger? or was it unrelated, but they happened to have an EV? It might take longer to extinguish, but people and the media would focus on the EV being involved in the structure and being the cause
@@BreakingWildGaming Doesn't matter how it started, if the battery takes "hours to make safe", that engine is tied up there and not responding to other fires.
I suggest that petrol tanks in a car make for similar risks. What do you do when an ICE car is in the garage?
We live in the centre of a city and do not have easy access to a charger (and I drive a rather lovely 2008 4.2L Jaguar XK convertible). Our friends visited in their EV and to say they had range anxiety is a complete understatement! To make things worse, they had to stay an extra night, as they were worried their car would be blown over in the gale. No EV for me ever, that's for sure!
..
Blown over? What was it, an E-bike?😂
You’ll not blow over an EV. They’ve a very low centre of gravity, and it’s really hard to roll one.
@@edwardhackett-jones8126 and they are often heavier than ICE equivalents
What will you do when your car is banned from city centre?
Banned? Surely that's a joke?? I'll just pretend she's electric 🤣
Pedro Loved the video , it really explored the problems facing full EV ownership going forward. I have owned a BMW I3 for 5 years ( 68 plate) and have just gone back to a petrol mild hybrid ( would have had a diesel like my previous mini d but could not get one).. I do have off street parking. I do have a 7kw charger. I do have solar panels, I can afford a new car over £30,000 . BUT I only received £9k part ex change for my I3 from a main dealer against a new £34000 car. because It only has under 3yrs battery warranty left !!!. this is the most catastrophic depreciation I have ever suffered, especially as I am retired and my total mileage was less than 23,000 miles in 5 years.. NEW EVs are to expensive for nearly all of my friends who tend to buy cars at 3yrs old for less than £25k, and they would not touch an EV with less than 5 years warranty!! so dealers offer super low part exchange as 2nd hand EVs are only going to become less desirable and worthless.. MY freind bought my 3 year old MINI d with 18,ooo miles on the clock. she fully expects it to last at least 10 years,, She would not even contemplate my I3 at £9k for a 5 year old BMW that cost £34,000 new
you should have kept the bmw i3 , you have suffered the depreciation and handed that bargain to a new owner,
@@whocares264 and purchased a BRAND new car, which is totally environmentally unfriendly. What would be far better for the climate is to drive our old ICE cars until they are completely dead.