The reality of living with an EV that nobody talks about !!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ต.ค. 2022
- The reality of living with an EV can be amazing or impossible depending on a couple of critical things that you have or not !
Having off-street parking and your own car charger makes the reality of living with a EV really straightforward. The vast bulk of you charging will be done at home and you won't need to use public charge point that often. However, if you don't have off-street parking and you own charger the reality of living with an EV is going to be a painful one. In this video I talk you through my thoughts and experiences.
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Had an online discussion with someone who must have been in NYC or LA while I'm from a large city in the center of the U.S. I have never even SEEN a charging station, this guy said they're everywhere. I'm in an apartment with unassigned outdoor parking, he said every apartment has its own charger. He's one of those people that think, "The whole world is exactly like what I experience." Different worlds dude, different worlds.
No charging stations in NYC that I know of.
He stated he is in the UK. Also, look at where the steering wheel is located. Steering wheels in US driven vehicles are on the left side, not the right. Charging stations in Europe are significantly more prevalent than the US.
@@vickimeyers2672 he was discussing a conversation he was having with another person, so his comments were valid. A problem with many EV owners and proponents of them is outlined in the video, and many people don't look further than today, as was said what happens after the honeymoon period?, the debate needs to happen now or we lose mass personal transport.
I live in NYC and have never seen an EV charger. Everyone I know who has an EV lives in the suburbs and own at least two cars. The 2nd car is always a gas car and is usually a Range Rover or other huge SUV.
nowhere to charge in apts. might be one or two outlets for one or two
cars. otherwise would have to run wires from inside apt. out the door
and / or window to the car. no way, forget that. and if there were a
bunch of EVs charging in an apt., it would overload the system, trip
the breakers, n power would go out.
At a dealership this summer in Canada, a Mach E in GT trim had a price tag of $CDN88k. The petrol version, 5.0l V8 in GT trim was $CDN52K. I can buy a lot of petrol for the difference!!
The depreciation in value of these cars totally offsets any savings on fuel . They are a hole in the road to pour your money into . At this point , they are a scam .
@@sobeit1927 In the near future this will also be the case for the EV version. At the moment they are already piling up at the dealerships..
@@johndrawing1176This is what he means. That the EV's are depreciating so fast that they are the biggest loss of money.
@@sobeit1927 A "scam?" Dunn'o but the whole EV car thing seems on shaky foundations. My understanding, incomplete though it certainly is, is that the battery production is anything but nature-friendly. And when the car ages, what about battery replacement? How many $$$$?
Then there are the horror stories of water intrusion.
I am very unsure these are the way of the future. In any case, I am not going to be in the early adopter crowd for an EV.
@terrydanks Estimates of cost of battery replacement (parts and labor) is $7600 - $20,000 U.S. That in itself will absolutely kill any used car market if the the battery has less than half its life remaining. As I mentioned in a previous post, there is way too much uncertainty and possible heavy future expense with these full EV's. A hybrid though, for many people makes a lot of sense. Which is why I'm planning to buy one.
I had a coworker who bragged about his Tesla saying he is not worried about gas prices and feels sorry for the rest of us gas users. Hes also huge on solar. So i tell him, "Ok so you spent $23k on your solar panels to be installed on to your roof, spent about $50k on your tesla, and another $5k - $10k to install a certified electric outlet to charge your car. Sure youd spend about $17 - $30 on a fill charge but every time you do so, you go to a resturant to grab food to pass time as you wait till your car is charged. The food you spend in resturant as time passing is roughly $15 - $20. Combone that with the charge fees, yiu spend aboit the same if you were paying for fuel. And to avoid paying $4.49 a gallon of fuel, you spent roughly $80k to avoid paying $4.49." He just looked at me blank like i showed him a new dimension.
What, you think he thought it through? These people only know what they are told.
@@andrewnevermind4902 thats why he gave me the blank look.he was so set on the money hes gonna save from not buying petrol fuel that he forgot the cost of maintaining and installing all that fancy stuff.
For the past few years the DMV demands you put the odometer reading for your car on the form to renew your registration every year. Doesn't make any difference for the fees charged. It is none of their business. What I see is the state is afraid they will loose the fuel tax money they get from us if people start buying EV's. The government thinks everybody will have an EV in a few years. If that happens they will start charging a road use fee (tax) based on how many miles you drive. If that happens then what advantage does a person have to buy an EV when they tax us on the amount of gas or the amount of miles we drive?
@@sd906238 thats excatly what i had in mind. I did read articles some years ago and talked about it with my mom and dad. I said that if many do buy evs, how is the gov gonna get their gas tax? The best way to make up for it is theyd get the people to repirt the odimeter and charge you based on the milage you put in 1 year, regardless if the car was out of state. If you lie, youd get a penalized fee and 6 months in jail OR the gov would have access to your car that they can remote access to your car and cause it to refuse to turn on or if it has auto pilot, have it drive itself to an impound and pay a fee plus pay the odimeter tax, late fee, plus the registration fee.
@@sd906238if you drive an ICE vehicle you’ll get taxed twice, on the fuel and the mileage.
Ty Pete for the vid.
The petrol and other fuel consumption in the UK is about 20 Billion kg.
1 kg fuel is about 12 kWH chemically bound potential heat energy.
The ratio beetween ICE and electric is about 2,5-3 more energy efficient.
2,5 is more for a Diesel car.
20 Billion kg x 12 kWh/3 = 80 Billion kWh
Electricity consumption in UK is about 275 Billion kWh currently.
So the power production capacity, likely coal power plants, will have to be raised by about a third.
Pretty bad for enviroment I think.
Thanks god this ElonMusk-pipe-nightmare wont last that long.
We dont have the materials, especially copper, to build this crap.
We dont have, not just in the UK, the spare electricity capacity. Rolling black-outs will occure on regular basis when every rich Joe and Jane needs to charge his or her EV.
The government will have to limit access to the charging stations.
When people realize how massive the value depriciation is on EV, which far offsets the potential savings if you have a personal wallbox and never drive more on one day than the range of the EV.
EV's are at least double as bad for the enviroment. If you take into account, that nobody has any idea how to recycle these toxic batteries at scale (plus who's gonna pay for it? ~10.000 pounds per car, actually nobody knows exactly how much). The most likely result is, that this crap will end up in the ocean or in some Asian or African poor country in a toxic land fill.
Then the bad enviromental impact of this pipe-nightmare will be off the scale.
The funny/ ironic thing about subsidies (tariffs) for "early adopters" is that they're just discounts for the wealthy. As prices become affordable for the middle class, the subsidies evaporate--and yet again, we collectively subsidize the wealth gap.
The "not-so-wealthy" people are typically not buying new cars, they go for used. And guess where they get their used cars from? Plus, the subsidy on a 70K pounds car will more than pay for itself just from VAT alone.
So if you look at it from this perspective, the whole subsidy story starts making a lot of sense. You kickstart the new technology, offsetting some of its costs. The wealthy people help driving it, offsetting the other part of the costs. Investors see that the government is serious about it, so new markets are opening - and thus they invest, to get their chance.
To summarize: the subsidy doesn't cost the government a lot, if anything at all. It sends proper signals to investors and researchers, and as a byproduct it will provide the second hand market with cheap used EVs. I believe that's actually exactly how it has to be done...
@@pqvid: Except that's not how pricing works. If the target market for Product X will pay price P, then the a subsidy (S) does NOT yield P - S for consumers, but P + S for sellers.
THAT is how subsidies work, with some slight marginal adjustments to compensate for the marginal costs to buyers and sellers to obtain the subsidy.
Oh so true
There is also the problem with public charge point and all the different apps you need to use them.
I don't need ESSO money to use an ESSO petrol station, I don't need special BP money to use a BP station.
There was on guy in the states who has 46 different apps on his phone so he can travel for his work.
Idiotic situation.
It will inevitably end up like solar . Get in 1st or miss out
Hi Pete, very informative video. My son recently purchased an EV as he lives on a small development with a wall charger. He discovered that the 7kw charger was only configured to 3.5kw. He challenged the developer who informed he that the Power supplier had requested this because if all the properties used an EV that the sub station would not be able to cope. We have a very long way to go before we are ready for EV’s.
3.5kW is still enough to replace your daily drive..
@@k_b7341
Depends on how much you drive in a day.
@@neilkurzman4907 with a 3.5kW charging possibility you can charge 35kWh in 10 hours. This will allow you to drive 100 miles per day - without visiting public chargers. That’s a pretty decent amount for a daily commuter.
If you have longer distances, you might have to pop into a public DC charger for 10 or 15 minutes - and you should be fine, too.
My brother has an EV and had a home charger properly installed in his garage (all done officially). It caught fire. Thankfully he was home and put it out but it had melted a load of wires throughout the house. Big expensive job to fix it.
@@jfro5867
If there are melted wires in the electric box, and then it wasn’t installed properly. The wire wasn’t the proper gauge for the circuit breaker.
Or the circuit breaker was defective.
I live in a large city (in mainland Europe). There are now exactly two public charging points in my vicinity with two outlets each. There are hundreds, possibly thousands car owners in the area (and it's a nightmare to park around here after like 4PM) with no option of private charging. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like if the amount of EVs increased significantly like it's supposed to in the coming years. And given how long it took for these two charging points to be built, I also can't really imagine the situation changing significantly in a few years time.
We are *not* ready for mass EV use in the slightest.
Why not just say the name of the city ? Lol 😂
@@smashingturnips5353Because it is largely irrelevant and might also invite useless "well that's because country X/city X, dumbass" comments, and because I don't really feel the need to advertise needlessly where I live publicly on the internet.
@@Case_nobody cares about where you live, really.
@@sirprzemekI mean, clearly you do...
You are basically describing my situation. 2 charging spots in somewhat "close" distance of mine but usually occupied. And I would have to drive an EV there first which is roughly 1km in each direction, then walk back home and return to the car and then drive back and search for a parking spot again. It is absurd to even think about what living with an EV would be for someone like me renting a small place in the city. And the kicker? I live in a city near Wolfsburg where Volkswagen is situated and currently producing the next generation of electric vehicles noone can afford. =D
I've had an EV for nearly 2 years and I'm leaving them behind and going back to hybrid. I don't have off street parking and can only use rapid chargers / supermarket trickle chargers. A year ago, the number of EVs on the road was so low that rapid chargers were very easy to access. Now, the balance has completely changed and it's impossible to get a charging slot without queuing behind several other cars at any time of day. In winter, charging is twice as bad because energy efficiency per mile nosedives. I have to charge my EV every 2 days. At this stage, I don't believe EVs will ever become ubiquitous because of the millions of people who don't have at-home charging. The number of rapid chargers we need would be astronomical.
Yup. These disasters will thankfully never see mass adoption.
Not a disaster if you KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
@@IntegerOfDoomwe will be suffering with the e-waste for decades.
Chargers certainly need to become more efficient.
As that becomes a reality, there would only need to be less than a full changeover from gas pumps to EV chargers.
I agree the number of Foster charges needs to increase and be maintained for a really can’t agree with you. Claim that you have to queue behind loads of people. I’ve had an eBay for nearly 5 years. I do several long journeys five hour drives to visit family throughout the year, I have certain places I go and I never need to queue if you’re gonna stop at a motorway services with lots of chargers that you’re going to queue, people are like sheep.
A point to consider for those of us living in older streets of terraced housing is that, even if we could have a charge point of our own, we don't have any more right than anyone else to park outside our own home - unless it's a private road, or we have resident parking spaces (which are usually quite expensive). This country is still a long way off being prepared for "enforcement by stealth" EV ownership - unless that's part of the agenda whereby motoring will soon revert to being a privilege for the wealthy.
I think that is what some people want. The elite get to drive about and call themselves green, all the while the green movement become pleased that less people are driving. And the poor, well they can just sit at home or use overpriced, poor quality public transport. I have become convinced this entire movement is one of snobbery and elitism. It will determine votes in the future. It is why I suspect the 2030 ban on new IC engine cars is going to fall apart.
Also if you live on an older street then you could potentially damage the road in a couple years. On that note these lead foot drivers in Tesla's are ripping up tarmac as the roads can't cope with the torque
You have hit the nail on the head. That is the plan. Limited travel for the masses. I saw a YT on it
Jordan Peterson from Canada ❤❤❤
Do you think the smart meter will be able to decide what tax you will pay on your electric on your AV car
@@nickdaybyday Not just older streets, councils now spend as little as possible on repairs and use the cheapest materials so the repairs don't last very long. This will only get worse as more and more EVs are on the road.
One thing that still bothers me about EV's is the assumption that life is predictable. I drive it, I take it home and charge it and as you said the next morning I'm ready to go. Life isn't always that predictable. You get back home, you've used most of your range and a family emergency etc. happens and suddenly you have no vehicle you can use immediately. The time to charge is still a huge drawback. They definitely have a place in the future but they can't be the total solution. Where I live in Canada we can get feet of snow in a short time and the winter temperatures could kill you if you had no power in the car and became stranded. I guess my point is don't treat them as a complete solution. They simply aren't.
The attitude is, "Take your sick child to the hospital in the bus, or call a cab!" LMAO.
Totally agree with you mr Freeky . What they should be doing is giving an incentive to people who own 2 cars to Change 1 of them for electric so you have a choice of transport , short journeys to work , d.i.y. store , shopping , school run etc , use the EV then on those occasions when a long run is needed use petrol car without the worry of charging on route .
I live in southern Ontario and the 400 series highways can be like parking lots even without an accident and being stranded. And as you say even worse if it's in very cold winter temps.
And if per say everyone on your block ended up getting one. Are the main transformers going to be strong enough to supply them all, if not no doubt there will be a huge increase in your monthly electric bill. Even if you don't have an EV vehicle.
Unfortunately most people have not really bothered to examine whether a "solution" is necessary. Beware of politicians calling for "solutions!"
I 100 % agree with everything you said !!! I live in the United States, and I have thought about all these issues also. I recently had to buy a new vehicle ( was in an accident and my truck was totalled ). I researched various models and decided that in my current driving universe, a good hybrid was the best choice. I purchased a 2023 Honda Accord Sport-L. 8 months into owning it and I loooooooove it !! Never needs charging. Has a 12 gallon gas tank that fuels the 4 cylinder engine that mainly charges the battery ( only when the regen braking is not enough ), which in turn powers the 2 electric motors. Everything works seamlessly. You don't do anything but just drive it. I'm getting 44-50 miles per gallon... 550 to 600 miles per tank. No power box or public charging to ever worry about. Now, I am not telling anyone to buy this car, but I am telling everyone that a 'Hybrid' vehicle is probably the best alternative at this time of our lives.... 👍
I want to get a Hybrid just to push my shelf as a mechanic it's just i don't think I'll see any befit from it. as all I do is highway driving as the gas engine will be running all the time.
My husband and I have been saying this for a couple years now. Totally agree with you @machan545...we should be easing our way into the EV only market with hybrids while the kinks are being worked out. LOVED your comment!.
@crazyguy26 ... Not true, I do quite a bit of highway driving. I have no issues. Engine will run to maintain battery power, never runs constantly. If your drive requires some braking or slowing, then the regen will power up the battery, also. My car also has a smart cruise system that really helps maintain optimum mileage. Research the models you like and make the best choice for your situation. But, regardless if the engine is 'constantly ' running, your mileage will still be better than a conventional ICE. After 3-4 months of living with this car, you learn little 'tricks' to get the best mileage. These tricks soon turn to habits that you incorporate into your driving style.
I live in California (state with most progressive laws to push EV adoption). The amount of teslas I see on the roads have increase dramatically. I spent 35 minutes driving to get groceries today and saw 20-25 different teslas.
It made me recall the warnings given out last summer from the power company to cut down on electricity usage or the power grid will have to shut down to prevent overloading with rolling blackouts and this year will probably be worse.
For example, it was recommended to set your house's Air Conditioning unit to 78 degrees Fahrenheit at 5pm to 8pm and don't charge your EV at home until after 10 pm.
We installed a level 2 (11.5 Kilowatt) Tesla universal wall charger 4 days ago only because a family member visits us time to time out of town in his model 3, but I think I will put EV adaptation on hold and see how well the power grid does this years summer demand.
What scares me is, what if the average range calculation is becoming more accurate as the car is going through more cycles? When you reset it is using a preloaded range number.
Battery degradation with the latest types of batteries is almost insignificant. Do your research and pick an EV with the correct type of battery and this will not be a problem at all.
That makes complete sense, the car has been calculating the actual usage and basing your mileage estimate on that. When you reset it, you're not getting any more distance you are just forcing it to begin recalculating for a dynamic range all over again.
@@LouDeVere I am not implying that it is degrading but am assuming that the car has preloaded values that may be affected by other real world factors. The preloaded values have no idea about temperature, tires and terrain. These would easily refine the calculations much like my F150 MPG average, it gets better when I do more highway driving but not instantly. Yes, it is an average but if I reset it, it must start over. It would be silly to start at zero so I am sure there is a preloaded number. I guess it is the average of the average, if that even is a valid term, you know what I mean. Happy Holidays!
@@LouDeVere The newest LiFePO4 are actually less energy dense, so their range is lower by about 20% compared to Li-ion.
WRONG! All batteries degrade rapidly. Do your own research and DO NOT buy EV trash.@@LouDeVere
I can't charge at home and found your acknowledgement of the difficulties highly supportive. Thank you. If someone asked me to sum up my several years' EV driving experience in one word, I'd say 'unpredictable', and I'd also urge them *not* to become an EV driver unless they can charge at home. Thanks again.
and with home prices becoming more out of reach for people lol
Why on earth would you buy an EV if you can't charge at home?!??!
@@terrancedactielle5460 Because I want to drive one and I also want to do my bit for the planet.
@@avidviewer1 _I'd also urge them not to become an EV driver unless they can charge at home_ .....The problem is, the Gov is urging - nay - *forcing* us all to become just that! In 6½ yrs time, will we see blocks of flats with hundreds of mega-long extension cables hanging out of windows? (was gonna put a 'lol' on the end there, but it's really NO joke...the country isn't - nor will be, by the time it's upon us...READY for it.) Also as was mentioned in the video, just _where_ is the shortfall in fuel tax going to re-couped from? It's gonna be an expensive future....
@@avidviewer1 You're not serious are you?
You are absolutely freakin' RIGHT. It's absolutely amazing how greatly the motoring press have engaged EVs without scrutinizing the elephant in the room.
Not just the motoring press - how about the Government? They wouldn't dare announce that voters without off-street parking can't own cars and yet the implication is crystal clear. Nor is off-street parking the only elephant in the room. It seems inevitable that all the EV batteries currently in service are going to end up dumped in West Africa - with all the other toxic waste - because there's no recycling yet. (Incidentally there's a guy in Llangollen who charges his EV with a cable across the pavement. Dark nights, old people - it's bound to happen.)
It's a gimmick, and they're probably getting a kickback from the manufacturers who are in turn being forced into it all.
Yet not a dinosaur.
@@rob5944 yes I'm sure we all remember the government scapage scheme in 2009 £2000 off a new car. Well I bought one and still have it . But now the diesel is a dirty word and again the government got it all wrong.
@@simonwilkinson6554 moreover I can't believe the new licencing system where road tax is calculated on the value new, whether it be under £40k or not. Then subsequent owners pay a percentage (or something like that). Consequently my daughter's mate has a 5 litre Mustang and it attracts quite a low amount considering..... madness!
Hi Pete. Thanks for the video. Regarding taxation, I live in the state of Virginia in the US. Here when we register our EV, and we have 2, we pay a tax to the DMV to replace the fuel tax we are not paying. Works ok except you pay either a flat fee or based on actual mileage, but we pay for the whole year at once archer in little bits at each fill up.
How much ev tax do you pay?
Great post. I could go on and on about all the significant challenges which make the highly accelerated timelines our countries have committed to for EV adoption all but impossible. FYI, I live in California, which is arguably one of the most developed states in the US as it pertains to EV infrastructure. At the end of 2022 it was the state with the largest number of registered EV vehicles (37% of total # of EV’s in US) and had > 88,000 chargers. Regardless, I invite you to watch one or more of the great YT videos posted by users like Shmee150 showing how flawed the existing EV charging network is in my state. Sure, having a level 2 charger at home is fantastic for commuting, short trips from home, etc. But, should you wish to venture out somewhere beyond the range of your EV and it is literally a crap shoot if you will be able to charge on the way and arrive at your destination according to your desired timeline. Please keep in mind, while England is ~400 miles long (north-south), California alone is nearly 900 miles long (north-south). While I still think the challenges we face are similar, the likelihood for Brits to regularly tap the max range of their EV’s is much lower than the average EV driver in the US. The fact that nearly 78% of US EV owners also own a gas powered vehicle speaks to the apprehension most folks have of going completely electric. (yes, I admit it’s not the only reason to have a second, gas powered car).
As an electrical engineer, my biggest concern is the fact that our current power grid is completely incapable of supporting even minimal EV charging network expansion, let alone what it would take to support the complete transition to EV by 2035 as our government has mandated. The necessary overhaul of the grid (generation, transmission, low voltage distribution) would take decades and trillions of dollars. If the public would get over their fears and allow for more nuclear based power we would have at least a glimmer of hope with the generation issue. As I said, I could go on and on. Better stop here. 😏
What about the state asking people to either charge their vehicles or use AC to cool their homes? I have heard that and not sure if its correct or not.
I used to work for a company of around 200 employees, they only had 10 EV chargers in the company parking lot. So the people with EV's had to draw up a charging roster for each day of the week for those who needed to charge at work and that became a mission to manage as you can imagine.
I can indeed 😳
I used to live in a commune where the electrucity bill was equally divided among all the residents and whoever was staying temporarily at the time. Too bad if you used less than someone with lots of electric gadgets and of course there was the problem of people who disappeared just before the money was due and even permanent residents who just didn't pay. So the remaining suckers (of which I was one) ended up paying a lot of money for little benefit
@@trkstatrksta8410 That is very very rare to have a communal electric bill
@@trkstatrksta8410 lol try and find an even more obscure example if you dare. :)
Simple solution: Don't buy one.
Bottom line is, if you don't have an exclusive charging source, think twice about getting a EV. Even if there are public charging points near where you live/work, you may need to line up to get your EV charged up (regardless what the cost is).
Or working as a builder money does not come from thin air
I would hop nobody would be naive enough to buy a PHEV or EV without home charging capabilities.
"think twice about getting a EV" BUT THEY'RE NOT GIVING US THAT CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OIL INDUSTRY LIES
@@comment6864 Let them try I will kill over my Altis and trust me you don't ever want to push me to that edge
Great video! This hits so many important issues on living with an EV. As Retiree in the US who enjoys exploring our vast country we opted for a hybrid SUV. We've taken several 1500 mile trips and it's practical and reasonably economical at 30-35 MPG.
No fires yet? Do you charge it in your garage while the family sleeps? Do you sleep with one eye open in hopes of escaping the fire? Look how many explode and burn uncontrollably every DAY. Look hard because they scrub them quickly. Ask your car insurance salesman for an EV quote. Sit down for the answer. Many Companies no longer insure them. Some charge double and triple. Premiums are based on losses. Hybrids blow up as well as regular EV's.
I have a small Toyota Scion with a 1.5l gas engine that gets 30mpg at 70 mph.
Until you have a green thermal fire. Good luck!
USA idea of economy is different to Europe. Here we’d be thinking 55mpg plus for a diesel.
1 Uk gallon is larger than a US gallon
Very good point about taxation and loss of revenues as we switch over to electric.
In Colorado, USA our taxes per gallon is 22 cents. The Federal tax, as I understand it, is 18 cents. I should assume there is also a county and city tax. At minimum, 40 cents per gallon. Assuming 20 mpg, that’s 2 cents per mile. I currently pay about 11 cents per kW and figure conservatively 3 miles per kW. Just for easier math, let’s figure 4 cents per mile in my EV. That would have to go up at least 50% per mile to make up for that revenue. Currently in the US, there is NO tax on electricity for residential use.
Hi Pete--a very important aspect of EVs politicians totally ignore is the natural resources needed for a battery. There are only about 6 countries that have enough deposits of Lithium (and other resources) to keep the batteries running….and the UK and the US are NOT two of them.
At least with lead acid batteries the metals, sulfuric acid, and distilled water are readily available.
Apparently there is quite a lot of Lithium in Devon or Cornwall. The rare earth magnets (neodymium)will certainly present a problem.
@erin s. in addition to the lithium, cobalt etc the bulk of these batteries is the graphite anode. Much of the best "anode grade" graphite comes from oil residue. As with the other ingredients, there just isn't enough graphite - less so if it's burned first!
@@valleyofiron125 How common an element doesn't say anything about how easy it is to utilise. There has to be an energy profit to recovering the lithium because energy is the name of the game. Take the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen. It is devilishly hard to utilise as a fuel and a net energy negative. At best it is a battery of energy. You can easily harvest H from natural gas or other fossil fuel but if the object is to cut fossil fuel use then that is awkward. Distilling water is the other way of sourcing H but a horrific energy hog. That is the most abundant element in the universe but that doesn't describe its utility, or lack of.
@@bobbailey7024 since EVs are supposed to be so easy in the environment, check into how a lithium mine pollutes the environment.
@@valleyofiron125 Is that where in Africa little children are used to dig for lithium?
Been driving EVs since 2014 (BMW i3, Renault Zoe, Tesla Model 3, Volvo C40). Like you we are lucky enough to have a 7kW wall box. I completely agree with everything you said and honestly, I’ve made the same points to friends and colleagues if they ask me about EVs. The government is not governing this situation properly (mind you they are not really governing anything properly so what did we expect?!).
The best measure is
If a single supply can't deliver the capacity of 7kw X 1hr of charge "per car" on demand
The logical implication is deliver 7kw X Nhrs
THEN deliver 7kw X 1hr to each car.
In other words
National energy suppliers provide low charge to an on site battery, the battery by design can then deliver high charge rates ( the 7kw Hr ) to each car on site needs.
That's the practical work around to the network not able to scale it's deliver with demand...introduce a buffer step.
Network > one charge point > one car
Or
Network > one battery on site > N charge points > N cars
In my example one battery could be N batteries so.its scalable 1 battery supports say 4 cars in parallel
"Like you we are lucky enough to have a 7kW wall box."
It wasn't luck it was pre-planning.
@@cnault3244 And I wonder how much that 7 kw wall box cost to purchase and install. Also, what if you have to park outside and somebody steals your charging cable?
@@rickraber1249 What if you have to park your gasoline car outside and someone steals your catalytic converter. Or your car. What if what if what if
Givernment doesn't need to be governing pushing EV cars. The market need to govern it.
I recently joined the EV community almost a year ago. I do have a home charger and it has been wonderful. I often have discussions with people about my EV and it always starts with the topic of charging. My advice to those is if you won't have the ability to charge at home, I caution against and EV if it is your primary mode of transportation. Just the few times I have used the charging network I am not a fan. Although it is only a 15 minute stop for me it is a hassle due to the fact that near me there isn't much of an option without driving several miles. Luckily the option I do have is with the company that I have free charging with for a while from when I bought my car. The EV experience has been amazing for me. I don't think I would say the same if I had to rely on public charging.
If you are doing just local journeys it's fine. Then the cost of buying a new EV is far greater, I doubt I would spend a cool £50k on a vehicle to say how wonderful it is for a 15 minutes of enjoyment. Majority of the public do not have that luxury and comfort. EVs are a scam that will eventually backfire on people's pockets big time. THEY EXPLODE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
@@lnr243 They explode all over the place...hilarious 😂
We had to upgrade our panel from 100 to 200 Amp, then we installed a level 2 charger. 3 years back, we put in a metal roof with solar panels. We also just put in heatpumps and heat pump hot water heaters.....so...yes it was work, but we are saving huge $$$$ not paying for gas or oil to heat our home
You are so correct with respect to the cost of a new EV being
out of reach for many of us. Also, the fact that the number one
issue with used EV's is the battery, and the batteries cost a fortune
to replace. I see the total cost of ownership of a new EV to be
a bit too high for many people. I know plenty of people who
find it a struggle to purchase some used car at $10,000 - $15,000.
Good luck finding a good EV with a battery that isn't getting ready to die
for that kind of cash. In fact, the price of all cars, both used and
new, has gone up so much this year that most people I know are just
refurbishing their present older cars. The price of a new transmission
or a good deal of engine work is not much more then the
sales tax on a new car these days.
They can push EV's till icebergs float in
Tampa Bay and if people just don't have the cash for one they
are not going to give up their old gas powered clunkers until they will
no longer move and parts are totally unavailable.
It's about time people realised what bullshit these ev s are, total and utter con.
Yep lol
I have had 2 EVs and am currently driving a Kona EV. Please understand that the range showing is calculated based on recent driving conditions - up hills, speed, temp, heavy foot etc. When you reset the trip history, then it assumes the best an most recent history - i.e. just a few seconds. That will change as you drive along. My Kona has averaged 4.8 miles/kw since since day one. My driving home today up lots of hills say 2.8 miles/kw. The driving uphill kills it. At freeway speeds, I average about 4.3 mi/kw. So 4.3 time 64 kwh in the battery gives me a range of 275 miles. At best, the range reading is simply saying that at the current conditions you can go about so many miles. I hope this helps.
Nope. They are not ‘about to die’. EV batteries will last longer than a petrol engine and, even then, are only down to about 80% capacity. You really do sound like someone who has done a lot of thinking, but not much research.
@@michaelmiller6593 There is far more to concern yourself with than that mate.
Thanks Pete, great content as always. A few points (from an ex Mach-e ‘owner’). Resetting the range clock does absolutely nothing to impact the range, it just resets it to the theoretical range until you e done a few trips and then normal ‘range calculation’ is resumed (240 on warm days, 200 on cold days).
I didn’t have a home box, used the public network. It was a complete ball ache with charge points out of order or full on about 30% of journeys. Travelling to and from Cornwall on holiday with the family was god awful with all the waiting around to charge. And the public charge points say 50kwh…complete tosh! lucky to get 40kwh out of most. After 9 months I gave up. Back to dinosaur juice I’m afraid and life is so much easier. I’ll see what EVs look like in another 10 years - maybe. Keep the content coming, great work
Seven years of using the Tesla charging network with 100% success.
I do think you need some common sense to run an EV.
The "the dash says" crowd and the "it's a 50kwh charger and I'm only getting 40kwh" should just stick to the self charging hybrids.
This is why people buy Tesla's - the ownership experience is completely different in this respect. It is depressing that the user experience for non-Tesla EVs is still so poor.
You get 40kW from the 50kW charger cos they are nominally spec'd at 400V and 125A (sometimes 100 or 120A even). But when you plug in to charge, your battery is probably at 360-380V, and the current maximum is fixed. And there are some transmission/conversion losses too, Obviously you shouldn't need to know this, and when it says 50kW you should reasonably expect to get 50kW....
What on earth decided you to buy a Mac-E without any apparent thought or planning Gary? It seems a bit unrealistic if you don’t mind me saying. (Are you prone to making these types of spur of the moment whims?) Why no home box?
@@philtucker1224 Exactly. As I said above, I made sure that there are sufficient on street charging points in my local area before pushing the button on buying. Plus, I've done trips to the south of France in my i3 and spent no more time at services charging than I normally would stop for, on such a trip, to stop for a meal break, pee, or just a leg stretch, except I didn't need to queue to use a pump and then queue to pay (if pay at pump is not available, which it often isn't at motorway services).
All excellent points. The only certainty is that we will be paying more in the future, no matter what.
Another great video this is the second time I listen to your video and it was awesome. Thanks for making it and at some point it may wake up the politicians to maybe consider what to do but, I would not hold my breath!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I live in Spain. Many people live in apartments (64+ in a block) with communal parking. I have a private parking space, but it is in a shared garage.
A lot of Spanish also live in townhouses without garages. I am glad you did this video because I have been saying the same thing and a lot of people just ignore the problem.
people think electricity just comes from the outlet by itself...
@@DanOneOneAgree totally. I use to work for the local electric company.
I don't understand how come so many people do not realize the reality on this situation...how can so many be so ignorant including the governments that are imposing this...are they really that stupid or they just want to f@ck us all up??!!🤔
Not everyone will be in a situation to have a level two charger at their home. But that is no different than not having a gas pump at your house. You simply top off before you get home just like you’d fill your tank. I’m a big fan of EV’s but our world is nowhere near ready for compulsory EV ownership. California, the most ignorant state on the planet, will mandate that ICE cars be banned and want to force everyone to drive an EV. But then they tell you not to charge it because the grid can’t handle it. What a mess. Phase EV’s in over time as driving range is extended, the charging infrastructure is improved, and the cost of EV’s become more affordable for everyone. ICE cars should never be banned. Another situation not being considered is the elderly. Are we going to expect 70 year old grandma, on a low fixed income, to pay a thousands of dollars to purchase and install a level two charger at her home. Or if she lives in a high rise apartment building are we expecting her to drive to a charging station in the dead of winter and sit in her car for the length of time it takes to fully charge. California, we are nowhere near ready for your forced government mandates with respect to EV’s.
@DanOneOne
No someday you'll just reach up and a 1MegaWatt charge cord will appear from the sky😅
As someone who drove 2,500 miles each month with a EV without level 2 charging at home my experience was as follows.
Everyday while I'm at lunch I would go to the local EVGO station which luckily was near three places to eat at. I learn pretty quickly I had to go for lunch super early around 10am otherwise I'll be screwed due to only two charge points and too much activity between 11am-2pm. The average cost of getting my car battery charge about 55-60% was 10 dollars per charge and would take 30-45 minutes I have a Mach-E so I knew fast charging past 80% was pointless. Generally most days was having my lunch and then helping people work the charge station as the card reader never worked and the station only work properly by EVGO app. Which setting up a new user is time consuming and made the lines even worse at this charge station. In my case everything work out which I could do it during lunch but I'm sure for many they won't have that convince and will be burden with commute, hours at works, and then wasting 30-2 hours depending in the car charging which will really cut into people personal life which might be mentally unhealthy for the population long term.
@MixinRaver welcome to the modern economy
With an ICE car you would fill up three times every two weeks, on the way home, it would take ten minutes per fill and you would avoid the lunchtime stress and could eat when and where you chose to, not where circumstance dictated, being forced to adopt a lifestyle to accommodate my car would be a hard circle to square.
If you went to lunch at 10 AM, it doesn’t sound like you returned to work at 11 AM, so did you have a 2 hour lunch? In any office where I worked, I would not be permitted a 2 hour lunch!! Also on the days that I was on the road conducting business, the noon time charge up would be impossible. In my life’s work, a 2 hour lunch would get you fired after your first 2 hour lunch!!
@byoh100 My schedule is extremely flexible but generally, I'll be out no more than an hour between travel charging and eating. As I mention it not ideal for most people which is why I'm against these mandates trying to force everyone to EV when it not a car that is ideal for all scenarios.
@@NihilistSolitude not finding fault, I understood your statement, just wondering what kind of a lunch/work schedule you work as I know work requirements are almost as varied as the number of working people in the US. Have a good one.
As electricity prices soar and supply reliability diminishes, you also have the cost of charging at home which is not cheap and will only get worse, if you are luck enough to have a home charger and garage. Most people today cannot afford a home and garage.
Spot on !!!!! Where is the revenue from petrol & Diesel going to come from , we have been there already remember when diesel was less than petrol , fast forward we all bought diesel, now it is more expensive than petrol .
Another thing that needs mentioning, most retail car parks have cameras and you can only use the car park when the shops are open BUT they have charging points.People have had £100 PCNS come through their letterbox. The sweetness you have mentioned are disappearing as we speak.Insurance for EVs is double.Positive side, some have depreciated by 70% after 3 years so they are at a bargain price.
It's surprising how Diesel is less-refined fuel, but is consistently more expensive than Otto fuel.
Here in US we have lots of full-sized pickup trucks. I use and actually need mine on almost a daily basis even though I'm retired and don't use it for work. A hobby I have requires that I pull a 16ft enclosed trailer and we all know about the recent test someone did where the pickup with a trailer only got about 85 mile range. I can only imagine what it would be like if you were driving in a state with mountains like Colorado. Occasionally, I take my trailer on longer trips which would reall suck if I had to stop every 85 miles. So, for the range problem alone, I don't see this as a practical solution even for 2030.
Yep, I'll be long dead before this battery revolution takes place.
Try to pull that trailer into a charging station
How often do you stop now with gas? I imagine the MPG is not great pulling a trailer either...
Where is all this added demand for electricity coming from. The grid in the US can't keep up already
@@ghostbond1074But it doesn't take over an hour to fill your tank like EV"s
I think of not being able to charge at home as similar to not having a laundry washing machine at home. I remember back in the days when I lived in apartments, I would just wait until I had absolutely no clean clothes left, then either use the communal washing machines (if my apartment had one) or making a journey to a laundromat and just burning up a whole afternoon of my time. It's certainly doable, but you're definitely sacrificing time and convenience.
I’ve found that even level 1 charging is surprisingly effective, I get 5-7 miles per hour on 1.4kw charger (American standard wall plug power) and can easily charge 12hours+ a day and we don’t drive over 60.
OIL INDUSTRY LIES
@@mark-wo2wjlisten to hugegamer.hes smarter than you are.
yep, now one can have both pleasures: no washing machine and a care with no place to charge.
@mark-wo2wj state some facts to back up your assertion. Otherwise, run along home to mommy.
Great video. My concern is that, as you said, taxes will be coming on the electricity. The government can't survive with them if they lose the revenue from oil. So okay, the government will tax electricity. But wait, electricity can be used for many things, not just your car, and there's no way to distinguish that. So they extra taxes will be also paid when you make some toast, boil a kettle or watch a TH-cam video. The EVs will massively raise the cost of general living. You already commented on the purchase cost of new EVs which will put them out of reach of a lot of poorer people. Those people will eventually be forced into second hand EVs, which will have old batteries, that give less range, are more prone to total failure (effectively writing off the car) and even dangerous fires. So poorer people will get the short end of the stick with extra home costs due to higher electricity costs, and older, less range and less reliable EVs. No one is considering this I think, and the push to EVs is happening from people who are wealthy enough to afford new vehicles.
This is a fantastic video. The same issues you describe are the reasons I bought a Hybrid instead of an EV. In Ontario Canada where I live we have a government which cancelled all incentives for EV purchases. They are only available at the federal level. There is little to no infrastructure publically. People are going back to gas powered vehicles in the larger city centers as a result. Range insecurity is a huge issue in Canada and of course our winter lowers your range. It is a mess which no one talks about. So much more to discuss but will leave it at that. Terrific, straight forward and honest discussion.
Thank you for posting this video. It is incredibly well balanced and should be mandatory viewing for any politicians who think that EVs are some sort of panacea.
Sadly, it’s not balanced at all. He even admitted in the first few minutes that he doesn’t understand how the predicted range on his car is calculated.
seems no one wants to talk about,what happens when batteries die,are they recycled,not here in NZ,politicians stear away from subject
@@pinkybar7328 They will be recycled or reused, plenty of info out there if you want it, not really been an issue so far as so few have actually needed recycling. An EV battery that is finished in a car is still fine for something like a batery farm (balancing load from renewables etc)
The reason your mileage per charge changes: When you reset the mileage management, it reverts to factory defaults. These defaults are typically based upon optimum parameters such as operating temperature, road surface, head winds, etc. More, significantly, environmental controls being off. Both heat and AC require significant amounts of battery power. If you frequently drive with either on, the mileage computer will began to factor that and all other impacts into an average. Thus, while the range decreases. Also, each time you charge discharge the battery, you take a slice of it's life/capacity away.
Basically, the "factory defaults" are a fantasy land of variables which are used to sell the EVs to ignorant customers by making unattainable claims of performance based on conditions that don't exist in the real world. Simply put, EV are sold by Snake Oil salesmen and politicians. Sorry, I can't tell one from another, they all look the same to me.
I can't imagine purchasing a used EV where batter life and range has been significantly reduced.
P
Yep. It's like my HP Laserjet printer. It gives you a number for how many pages more you can print with the present cartridge. It's based on what you having been printing, and extrapolates it. You may actually get significantly more or less.
Short answer - Driving history predicts range using past performance, instead of best case scenario.
Regarding the guessometer in the car, its estimate will vary a lot, depending on current and past consumption, not to mention outdoor temperature. My ID.4 is parked in a heated parking cellar. The difference in range estimate between having been parked indoors in 10 degrees C and outdoors in minus 15 degrees C is quite enormous.
I live in an apartment complex here in Norway. Every single parking lot down in the parking cellar has been readied for EV charging, at no cost to us who live here. The charging infrastructure here is run, operated and maintained by a third party. It's also mandated by law that if you live in an apartment complex like ours, that provisions be made so that you can home charge your EV. Not being able to home charge where I live, would be a bit inconvenient, but 800 metres down the road is a big shopping centre with plenty of chargers outside, so it wouldn't be too horrible.
My sister lives on our family farm in a very rural area. She also drives an EV, and has a home charger set up in her garage. It's only set to deliver 4 Kw per hour, but that's still more than enough for her daily commute. My parents live on the same farm, drive a hybrid and have charging for that set up in their garage.
As for the charging infrastructure outside of home, I'd say that the UK is 10-15 years behind us. Infrastructure really is alfa and omega.
Norway and other extremely wealthy countries are not good examples for anything like this. It just isn’t realistic to use Norway as an example of what to do in say the US. Norway has a fraction of the population, and nothing even close to the poverty problems.
Thanks very much for raising this issue of home charger access, as you suggest, proponents of a 2035 EV sales go-live never address. I live in California. I don't have an EV because we can't afford one, but I do have a garage so I'm in an enviable position should we decide to get one. The push for EV totally ignores the practicalities and the economics for low income, and even middle income, families. If you try having a conversation about this to an EV proponent they try to cut the discussion short or even claim I'm a climate-denier, which I'm not. I'm seeing EV solutions pushed by at least comfortably off, if not wealthy, proponents with little awareness of how the rest of us live. And beyond costs, the "morning charge" issue is a biggie, whether that's actually in the morning or another time of day - who wants to blow an hour or more a day tracking down n available, costly public charging point and then waiting for the charge. I know Rowan Atkinson got a lot of grief suggesting that hydrogen-powered cars are currently a better solution than EVs (until ultra-fast charge solid state battery technology comes), but he's correct. Again, thanks for raising this issue.
If the migration to EV in the UK looks challenging, imagine it here in Eastern Europe. In the cities most people live in apartment buildings with shared open air parking areas. Charging an EV in such environment is almost impossible. And if they want to make EVs accessible, it will be a HUGE undertaking - the city power infrastructure will have to be completely rebuilt. And if they want to install EV chargers in the parking areas, that also means they'll have to dig the roads a lot.
It's crazy to even imagine it.
I'm in Barcelona and I've had my Tesla Model 3 for 3 years now. My parking is in a different building than my flat. The biggest challenge that I had was getting charging in my parking spot. I had to petition the building owners to allow me to have a new electric meter added and I was lucky that they had space for 3 more. Then I hired a professional installer and they were able to get everything done for just €2,000 and 500€ was the charger box.
As I always charge at night when it's cheaper I don't think it will be an issue when other people transition to electric cars.
@@glennshoemake4200 charging one, two or few cars is not a problem. The problem will arise, when there are more people, who have EVs and want to charge them simultaneously (at night or whatever).
The existing electrical infrastructure will need to be rebuild completely, in order to handle this extreme loads.
Also, when you say "just" 2000 + 500 EUR, do you understand, that this is about 1 month salary for most people in Europe? This is not cheap, it's an additional expense.
In my opinion, without huge support from the EU - the transition to EV will be very hard for many people.
Also, Tesla ain't exactly cheap and affordable for a lot of people.
It is not a problem for one person with good income to get EV today.
What is hard is to make this transition for everyone (or almost everyone).
I think you underestimate the challenge.
@@moetocafe Yes Tesla is not cheap, but people here spend as much on a petrol only car such as Mercedes, Audi or BMW.
I drove a Ford Focus for 10 years to save money for the Tesla. I'm glad I made the switch to Electric.
My car uses 3kw an hour which is not a lot. I could pay extra for more KW pipe but as my car sits in the garage it's really not necessary.
€2000 was total install, 1500€ was labor and other materials and €500 was the electric box with its own Menekes plug and key to lock it when not in use.
Finance rates were cheap in 2019, but not so much now. Still it's the best car that I've ever owned and still puts a smile on my face when I drive it and when it's cleaned.
@@glennshoemake4200 I'm sure it's a great car and you have joy with it. And that's very nice!
I am not anti-EV in any way.
I was simply pointing out, that the transition to EV for the majority of people (and thus for the governments) will be a challenge and will probably take more time, than anticipated.
@@moetocafe That's true and in November 2019, there were a lot fewer options in buying a EV. My biggest criteria was the ability to drive 90 minutes away to Costa Brava Beach and to enjoy the day out and to be able to drive home without having the need to charge anywhere. The Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe are both not capable of this and as I knew that I would keep the car I went ahead and bought the Long Range Tesla Model 3. My wife was initially against the purchase because of the high price, but now she loves it and always wants to go out for a ride. There is a good chance Tesla will build a cheaper hatchback which would be great for the European market if they can get the price at €25,000.
Hello sir, I am not from the UK. But I live here in Canada. There is a huge push here in Canada for Electric Vehicles. You were talking about those living in flats (or apartments). I live in an apartment (apartment complex) myself, and just back in September of this year, my landlord installed 2 charging stations for each building. Now these charging stations, you have to pay by credit card or using the app just like you would at a public charging station. We have about 24 units or more per building. Some units may have 1 or 2 vehicles for each unit. We have 3 buildings in our complex. Now, at this time no one in our complex has an EV. There might be maybe a hybrid vehicle or 2 in our complex, and none of them are the plug in hybrid. Anyways, my point is this no one in my complex seem to care about getting an EV. We already have problems in our complex with our power going out from time to time. A few weeks ago, we had the inspector putting stickers on the charging stations, and he told me he would never buy an EV because the infrastructure is not there yet. He said he has been on the industry for 20 years, and he still wouldn't even purchase an EV. He said he would encourage people to get a plug hybrid or just even a regular hybrid, but never a EV when the infrastructure is not even there. I am the same way, I would never purchase an EV. Maybe a plug in hybrid, but definitely not a EV when the infrastructure is lacking. Those are my 2 cents.
Hello John. Like you, I live in Canada, and I too live in a high rise building, although mine is a 56 Unit condo, in which I own my own two parking spots. I drive a 2022 Volvo C40, fully electric car, and have never had an issue with charging my vehicle, as I have my own charger installed at my parking space. I charge my vehicle at night, when the fees for electricity are reduced and on longer road trips in which the distance travelled exceeds the range of my vehicle, I simply charge the vehicle at one of the fast chargers located along my route. My vehicle alerts me to where these chargers are located. Admittedly, driving an EV does not fit everyone's lifestyle yet, it does fit mine perfectly. Typically I spend about $30 per month charging my vehicle whereas I used to spend about $200 a month driving my Internal Combustion Engine car. And I like to think that I am doing my part to help this planet survive. So I appreciate that an EV might not work for you, there are thousands of people who drive them and are getting along just fine. And there will be more in the future. Thanks for your "two cents" and thanks for reading my "nickel".
You have a lot more space in Canada, and a UK flat/apartment here is usually tiny with no dedicated parking, often street parking at best
Isn’t it also tougher on the batteries (like drain) living in normally colder environments?
The "inspector" works for the POWER company. He's been working for the monopoly for 20 years. He knows nothing about EVs. Or. He knows EVs facts and is lying to the gullible - hoping to protect his job.
@@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck you seemed to have missed the point that I was making. As I said, he was discouraging people from purchasing electric cars because he knows there isn't enough electricity on the power grid to charge everyone's cars and power everyone's homes.
Thank you for a very informative video, you raised a lot of points I have just been asking. I am lucky enough to have off street parking and a wall charger, however when we go away to the caravan will have to rely on public system for more so I did lots of sums comparing various charging companies and it is worth doing a as there can be quite a variation between them.
They say during a world Cup or Olympics if everyone boils a kettle that's why our light bulbs dim. 😂
I think that your average mileage issue is that when you reset this puts it back the factory setting which is based on ideal driving and conditions to maximise the range. However as soon as you start driving in the real world the actual range will come down showing what range you are really getting and will keep falling until you get to a true average range. So if I was you don't reset and you will end up with a more accurate range based on real world driving
Spot on Stephen. EV's are definitely not good for people who do a lot of country/highway driving as they will typically only get about 50-60% of the claimed range in these conditions.
When VW did a similar thing with their ICE cars it was described as a 'cheat device', and they were fined hugely. Which government will be courageous enough to prosecute fashionable EVs, and get repayments to cheated customers? Hint, don't hold your breath.
@@cnocspeireag How the hell you've managed to equate the VW emissions cheating scandal with the range estimation algorithm of an EV I have no bloody idea. People are weird.
@@Scuba72Chris I think he's trying to equate manufacturers lying about the typical EV range with lying about the diesel emissions i.e. just lying/cheating in general to try and attract customers or beat the govt tests. We're keeping our diesel and petrol cars for at least 10+ years as range anxiety is something we don't want to even think about - currently we fill up every 2 to 4 weeks and wait until the yellow light comes on before tanking up in less than 5 mins! Plus we have a 5 litre container in the boot for emergencies but it's never been needed so the fuel is just rotated approx. every year to keep it fresh!
@@Scuba72Chris the manufacturers aren't lying, because it is all based on the WLTP test. However, when it comes to highway range, which is the only time you really care about EV range, the WLTP is totally nonsense. You get about 2/3 of the states range. So the WLTP test is lying to you. And obviously, everyone in the business knows about it. But nobody is brave enough to mandate that the highway range is specified as well for all cars. NB: the numbers exists! It's the 4th part of the WLTP test. It's just not publicised anywhere.
My VW diesel Golf estate is going to be on the road FOR EVER.
Thousands of people live in multi-storey buildings or don’t have off street parking, they are being totally ignored by this green dream.
Yep, my scenario completely! A significant portion of the population live in flats not houses, where even if they do have parking, there are no chargers present. I'm sure this will change in time but looking at my own area as an example, it won't be any time soon!
That's because our Western societies are not based on need but on profit. China has no trouble selling their EV's (they have 10 Chinese companies and numerous foreign subsidiaries) and no problem outfitting multiple living buildings with chargers. I love our Western freedom but it is a terribly inefficient system to get things done properly.
@@steelcom5976 I beg to differ. China is having a huge problem selling its EV’s and they are dumping them on the world market cut price.
Vehicle and battery factories are closing and thousands of workers are being laid off.
So according to Darren Woods, CEO of Exxon, made the statement at a CEO summit, that personal vehicles only produce 10% of all CO2 produced. Let THAT sink in. Why all these “mandates” to discontinue IC vehicles by a certain date for 10% of “said CO2 problem”. 🤔. You brought up taxes. EV’s average 20% heavier weight than a Comparable IC car. For gasoline cars, the states or government entities charge gas/petrol taxes for road construction/maintenance. Those road taxes for EV’s are not being collected - from your home charger system anyway. You are correct - the tax charges will at some point increase. So EV’s, being heavier, cause more “usage” on roads much like the heavier trucks do i.e. delivery trucks, garbage trucks, tractor/trailer vehicles hauling commercial goods. But this usage tax is not being collected as it is when one buys fuel.
Took a while to get to the points but when you got there they're all spot on and something I have been saying too for a while.
For me the ev is still pointless. I have off street parking and could charge at home but I only do 3000 miles a year at most. My old V6 Merc is doing no harm to anyone, even my bank account.
Hi sir as a retired electrical contractor I think we need to be aware that the average domestic dwelling is supplied with a 100 amp supply , which can indeed be less than say 80 amps depending on the installation . If you factor in the possibility of numerous vehicles being changed on one incoming supply , you will appreciate a problem is is going to manifest itself . Give the existing demand of the household supply already copping with the demands of. ie cookers, showers , washing machines etc . We can begin to question are we in a position to actually be able to accommodate such a situation . I fully appreciate that most people assume you can just plug something in and everything will be ok , but in reality this is seldom the case . Excess demand can = heat which can = thermal runaway which can = combustion ie = fire 🔥 .
Although the US uses a lot more electric power per person than in other countries, since 2010 the averages have been coming down. We have more efficient motors, heat, and lights than in the past.
you are right - my road has a 35mm2 three phase cable which supplies about 10 houses. When I’m pulling 12kw overnight the voltage drops a fair amount. Only needs a few more houses charging and heating water for it to become a problem
@@segokorsch People are HOMELESS too.
@@JBroc-359 If you look into the "homeless" issue you will find that at its core is usually drug / alcohol addiction and mental illness. These social problems have NOTHING to do with EV's.
@@segokorsch Good sense dictates that the rise in homeless people has an impact on the average home electrical system. they aint got one, which reduces , as a factor, the amount of energy used in the states as a statistic. we were discussing home owner electrical usage. Less owners = less usage. Right? Homeless people do not have "average domestic dwellings"
The Core you speak of is directly related to rampant capitalism, and the inability to see beyond our legalities. maybe your life never sucked so bad that you turned to something else for an escape. let you rent soar 2 or 3 hundred percent then lose your income source. get evicted, start a criminal record from it, and see how much more money we can squeeze out of those who have none. and people sit around and wonder why all these shooting occur. Plus, the entire country cannot all have all of the upgraded appliances and better efficiency products. That just sounds like a curved metric to me.
One point that I did not hear: if you are at a two port charging station "alone" and say it will take an hour to charge your vehicle, should a second person pull up and use the second port, your time to charge has now doubled. The charging stations can only put out a certain amperage (wattage) and if you are the only one there you get it all, if not you only get half. Same at home should you have two EV's and lucky enough to have two ports. I loved the video!
Cheers from North Carolina USA!
battery swop china have it sorted
Mike, you’re totally incorrect.
What Seth said.
The problem with used EV’s is that if that battery does go, it’s like paying double (at 50k) for a car. That’s a risk no one wants to have. What I’ve heard is even if the undercarriage is scuffed or damaged slightly, you risk fires from the battery as well.
I find it fascinating that while everyone loves EV’s, they sure have a lot of electronics in it that I wonder if its not draining the battery faster.
"that while everyone loves EV's"....lol....pmsl.....hilarious. I don't know a single person who "loves EV's" never mind "everyone"
A very uninformed comment. No the vehicles are designed to take scuffs and hits without damage to the battery occurring. Secondly the electronics are no different from an ICE, in any case this is designed to drain minimally the battery.
Of course it is draining the battery faster! See my comment above ...
Electrics are powered with a 12v battery- like any other car. The battery pack is literally armoured- it will withstand way more than a scuff, and even in a crash it is as likely to catch fire as a petrol car. I can't help but laugh at how many people talk about hypothetical problems with EVs but not about their own cars. Do you ever think "what if the fuel tank catches fire? What if the timing belt snaps? What if my axle falls apart while doing 70mph?" No? Why not? The chances are no different.
The battery doesn't "go". They outlive the vehicle and all the owners. I've had my EV, original battery, for 9 years now, with 2% degradation over 100,000 miles.
Here in the US I believe the road tax will come from the registration and the miles when we get our vehicles inspected (MOT) once a year.
Why do we need to get yearly inspections? Might be better to remove them and pay for travel in other ways.
My sister in the US bought a new EV Ford several years ago. She was told her batteries would last 9 years. At three years, she was told they were worn out and that the cost would be $7K. She traded it immediately.
Ford did not have an EV in America several years ago, only then hybrids. Ford Mach E is Ford's 1st electric car (EV).
@@lgarber2106 Ford has produced many different EVs over the years. Ford produced a Ranger truck EV in the US back in the 90’s that was very popular.
@@lgarber2106 Ford started making EVs back in 2009 at the Frankfurt Motor Show in Germany. The company's very first car was the Ford Focus BEV, a fully-electric hatchback with 76 miles (122km) of range.
@@pkp1001 Mach E was Ford's 1st in US.
@@wasidanatsali6374 I am sorry, I had not known.
I live in Iowa, USA. We have the third largest wind generating capacity per capita in the USA, some into thirty years of use. Listening to some of the environmental concerns you are having in this conversation, it might be interesting to relay an observation I see going on in my location with other green projects.
With aged windmills here in my state, and around the USA, we have blade replacement going on in many of the fields. The blades are fiberglass and no one has a recycling plan/program for outdated blades. So far, the solution has been and continues to be to load the old blades on trucks and drive them to any place that has been found that will receive them to be buried. These old blades take up quite a bit of space.
We have hundreds of thousands of these blades in the USA and this is the singular end to their use. It does not seem to me to be an efficient end-of-life for any part of a renewable energy policy. Think of all the energy used to dispose of and then the land use issues in this disposal process.
Excellent point then add in the killing of the birds 🐦 its very sad.
ALL of these “Green Energy Schemes” are “Half Assed” at best. I have been involved in Green Building Design in the past and it’s also a BS story as well. If it wasn’t for the government funding involved, it would be a total bust. Government can’t do what they are supposed to do let alone getting involved in energy!!
green energy tech is a threat to the planet
Also the moral aspect of the children mining the minerals for the batteries.
also noise pollution
Hi mate great video. FYI your range is an issue because you are driving long trips and there is no regenerative braking feeding back in. Resetting the computer doesn’t help that just makes you feel better but you will still only get 240 miles based on your actual real world usage.
Great points, add the fact that these cars are fragile, the slightest bit of damage to the battery pack can result in a write off so insurance rates are high and going higher.
Hey Pete, I live in Australia. and installed Solar panels on roof several years ago and was getting good rate for surplus electricity I was selling to the grid, now I get next to nothing plus hidden solar meter charges. I saw this happening a long time ago, as you rightly say, the same will happen with EV's when Governments lose out on excise etc. Very well put together arguments on living with an EV.
And if the power grid is shut down, people with gas engines will be carting people around…
The Australian Govt has already discussed making EV owners pay extra to make up for the tax revenue they lose from petrol sales. It's all a massive con! People are told yet another 'fairy story' about how great EVs are, but reality gives a different result. Imagine the cost to run an EV when power prices go up another 56% (they have ALREADY increased!) + those Govt EV taxes.
Classic bait-and-switch.
You could use the battery in your EV as a way to store the extra charge of the solar panels during the day.
... until they run out of gas and can't get any more because fuel pumps are, you guessed it, electric. Meanwhile, those of us who can charge our EVs from our solar panels will just keep going as usual.
I am an electrical engineer , whilst the theory behind electric cars is great .
No infrastructure and as you bought up in the video, the power net will not take it.
I was working in London and 1 power station went down , we lost the whole of east London.
Generators running using diesel to keep the banking system working.
So I do like the essence of electric cars the infrastructure cannot cope.
The cables in the street were never made for this amount of power draw..
Interestingly enough, there is a lot more capacity on most electrical infrastructure, it's just a matter of bad timing that reduces the capacity. If everyone had battery energy storage and could mitigate their demand to a constant amount, there'd be a lot more power available from the grid. Or even if everyone had more staggered habits of time-flexible loads.
A lot of the electrical infrastructure is sized assuming not everything will run at once, and is based on statistical models of aggregate user-behavior. I don't know how the standards work in the UK, but in the US, the National Electric Code has much higher standards for construction within a building or on a customer's property, than the utilities have for the standards they follow when sizing out the grid. In a commercial application, a customer-owned transformer might need to be 500 kVA, in the same application where an otherwise-identical utility-owned transformer could be 300 kVA. It's very common for 3 residential neighbors to share the same 25 kVA transformer, even when all 3 of them have 200A services at 240V (i.e. 48 kVA).
Imagine living in a block of apartments and having to wait in line to boil your kettle.
In USA people who park on the street have been issued tickets for running extension cords across the sidewalk (footpath) to charge their cars. The dilemma as I see it is "Where is all this power to charge all these EVs going to come from ?"
A very large amount of our electricity is generated by…
fossil fuels.
Where will all the power come from? Most likely from natural gas, coal or oil powered power stations. Awkward if the object is to cut CO2 emissions.
@@coweatsman it will be like that everywhere, not just it the US, no country has enough surplus, we will need more coal, oil, gas, and nuclear, with only the later being carbon neutral.
Its all about control. Get us on electric cars. Flick a switch that creates a blackout. Give only the Renfields electricity.
Power and control issue, not ecology and climate change.
@@CrusaderSports250 Best of all is using less energy, no matter what the energy source. Downsize the economy and population. Humans are in overshoot.
Hi Pete, I’ve scanned through the posts to see if anyone else has mentioned this, but I haven’t seen it yet. I have met many people from the UK, and one of the first things they remark on about the US (aside from our weight problem) is the sheer size of the country. I’m sure a 300 mile range sounds like a lot to the Brits, but if you live anywhere between the two coasts here, that can be a problem. You won’t necessarily find charge points as easy as you’ll find gas stations.
You do not own an electric vehicle.
When I was young many years ago and watched cowboy films in America they used horses to get around and a horse drawn wagon if they was taking the family out for the day. Time to readjust your mind sets you will own nothing be happy and not travel or vote for Trump and hope he kicks the WEF and net zero insanity into touch.
This appears to be a very common problem politicians have conveniently ignored. They'll claim their own EV on their expenses paid by taxpayers. while these same expense paying taxpayers mostly can't afford a new EV. This in turn can't be charged in many areas without sufficient power generation & transport or charging point infrastructure.
I'm retired and like to travel the US. On any given day, 300 miles would run out fast. How long does it take to charge an EV vehicle? When I drive on the interstate, there are often 20-30 people gasing up. How will 30 people charge at one time? I think EV's are nice on paper, but reality is a totally different thing.
In some cases, traveling through the Canadian Rockies, there are many signs warning you of the last gas station and then yer own yer own. And they ain't kidding (I'm Canadian BTW). It's a no brainer to have a few litres of gas in your vehicle on these road trips. This isn't going off the map. This is trying to go from point A to point B through the Rockies. It's massive. I would be very nervous with an EV in bad weather trying to attempt that. Not against EVs at all. But it's a solution that will, IMO, not fit all countries 100%.
Great video sir. You made some great points and you are 100 percent correct on the home charging. We recently had a Mach E as a loaner car from the dealer and obviously I don’t have the means to charge at home. It was a total disaster. The charging stations near my home were very very slow or non functioning.
My second thought was also something you mentioned on price per kilowatt. My belief, here in the U.S. anyway, is that when the majority of people are forced to swap and become dependent on the EV cars, are they going to jack the prices way up making ownership just as expensive as owning a gasoline or diesel fuel automobile? I think if you currently own an EV, enjoy it while you can.
$8k an electricians quote to upgrade & install a Level 2 charging unit in my garage That's it no EV 4 me my house was built in the 60s needing the upgrades overnight home charging was the only thing that made sense & I'm not going through the anxiety of an hour to charge at stations that may or may not be working properly the nation's infrastructure is not ready for EVs
@@empowerimpact6324 8 grand? Thats insane. Where do you live?
@robertf3340 this is America Chicago
Geez. I’m I. Southern California so I’m sure it’s just as expensive.
I can highly recommend a petrol car.
All points raised are very valid. In my home community there have been two apartments built and one under construction and charging for an electric vehicle have not been considered in any of them. There is also the problem that none of the charging stations are pull through so for larger vehicles or any pulling a trailer a real hassle. And why after all these years do the regulating societies not force the manufactures to produce standardised plugs? To me that just shows that regulating authorities are a few million bricks short of a load. Insane. When the internal combustion engine first hit the road the manufactures did not put in their own fuel stations.
Then there is the price gouging for electricity. Sometime needs to be done here.
Now if I could afford to buy one I would have one this afternoon. As a retired person close to 90% of my driving I could charge at home. Trips to the two largest towns in my area for summer and with a long range version I may make it. So even if I topped off on a high speed charger would be fine in the time of a coffee. In the winter I would have a meal and take the time to make sure fully charged for the trip home.
When propane was first used as a fuel I switched. Got several years with my personal and company vehicles of cheap fuel. I look at electric as the same. Once everyone is hooked on electric they will be no cheaper than what we are driving now. Here in B.C. Canada our insurance provider is being underhanded on having us report the mileage on our vehicles when we get insurance. Today they say if you are a low kilometre driver we can get cheaper insurance. What it really is when enough are switched to electric we will be hit with a km charge at the end of the year to replace the road tax electrics are avoiding. Lets face it in the history of mankind there has never been a honest government.
A point of interest for me I hear stories that they can not sell electric vehicles. There is thousands sitting on lots. So can someone explain how the few people I know that are waiting for a electric vehicle cannot get them? You hear there is thousands around unsold, yet you cannot purchase one?
You're so right - the politicians and eco activists don't want to talk about the negative aspects of changing over to EVs. So many aspects simply don't make sense and, if they don't make sense, you have to conclude that the whole ridiculous idea is a con. When is someone in authority going to call this BS out?
I'm sure It is a case of I'm alright jack. Politicians don't care they can jus claim a second house or get their energy bill paid for in any case.
YES ! Perfectly said. There's no way on Earth that any of the Western European countries, nor The UK, could possibly manage to find the amount of electricity needed during the coming few decades at least, and none of them are even starting to build new generating stations, which just goes to emphasise your point. Also for any people who aren't lucky enough to have off the road parking and their own home charging points (the vast majority, including millions of them in (High Rise) apartments and in streets of small terraced houses), the whole idyllic idea just collapses in its entirety.
Excellent video as always! I’ve had my Tesla for 6 months and I fall into the category that you rightly raise. Cheapest public charger near me will cost £46 for a full charge (100kW battery) but now using the Tesla network for a long journey is now £69 for a charge…range 250 miles. For me the big issue is the sporadic pricing whereas fuel is fairly consistent.
One last point that no one is talking about is learning to drive. As all electric cars are automatic, what licence will be available to use once fuel cars can’t be used as learner cars. Let’s face it, driving schools aren’t going to teach people in 10plus year old cars…..would love you view on that too!
Keep up the awesome work.
£69 for 250 miles!
Is that why whenever I watch an EV video on TH-cam they never tell you how much they've just paid to 'fill up' the car?
For comparison, my 320d can easily get 500 miles from £85 of diesel.
I don’t think fuel is consistent at all. To fill my diesel this time last year was £60 yesterday £98. The annoying thing is that over 70% is tax.😆😖
You have a Tesla with 100kWh battery and only get 250 miles of range to a charge? I'd get your car checked out, that's appalling efficiency. (2.5 mi/kWh)
It’s the standard range unfortunately. I know others with the same car and they get the same as it’s the Model X which is a big heavy car.
@@tonydoc903 well what I mean is that there is a small fluctuation in fuel pricing at the same time. Charging my car can range from £44 for a charge and £70, that’s a huge variation. My old car would cost within £5 for the cheapest and most expensive fuel…..
Hi Pete. Great video. Lots to think about. I do believe when the government realizes they have to get the gasoline tax from the electricity we will be paying far more for our power. I doubt they will be able to differentiate between what you use to power your car and what you use to live at home. This means the power charge will increase overall. Even if you don’t use a vehicle and use public transit you will have to pay more for your power. I think we have a long way to go before we are ready to do a complete switch. The government can’t pass a law for most things without debate for a couple of years, how will they pass these laws in time to cover the cost of roads and infrastructure. Also we live on a gravel road and I worry what the gravel will do to the undercarriage of the vehicle. Lastly here in Alberta Canada we get temperatures as low as minus 40. Not good for a battery. Will my boss understand when I can’t make it to work because of the temperature?
Definitely lots to think about.
Keep up the great work with these videos.
Great video. In the U.S., depending on the car and the charger, you can recharge from 0% to 80% state of charge in less than 1/2 hour, so it isn't that big a deal. (your charge rate may vary).
"Stopped at a friends house and was able to plug into their charge point" So your friend was happy to pay for your car fuel?
That's like me driving to see friends and then asking them to pay for my fuel at the petrol pump
We'll just have to put a cooler in our boot.... Keep a couple steaks in there too. That way, if we have to stop at a friend's place and beg for a fill up, we can instantly pay them back with a fine meal! 😀
These are cars for communist hippies. They like the "planet" so much, they should enjoy sharing everything with everyone.
Only a few quid and Pete probably brought some goodies to share;Every relationship does not have to be transactional anyway
@@samspianos Don't think the friend would be happy to see the guy every few nights just so he can charge his car up!
@@aliwhitwell So maybe you should invite him over
Thank you Peter for raising the issues of disabled people having difficulty with charging electric vehicles. I’m posting the hyperlink to your excellent video on a couple of disability Facebook groups. Keep up the excellent work. Andrew
A true story : A disabled person recently leased an electric car through Motability and then posts of a disability Facebook group that he doesn’t have off-road parking and asking where near his south-coast home can he charge it. I was aghast. Surely if you’re going to lease an EV that’s the first consideration?
Wow 🤷♂️😮
@@weenedonpetrol it says a lot about the integrity of the dealer.
@@David-bl1bt I totally agree. Indeed I would go furthest and say that Motability have a moral responsibility to their disabled customers who perhaps don’t have the technical ability to understand EVs to ensure they have access to a nearby charging facility.
On a personal level I had the opposite experience recently when my local Peugeot Motability Dealer tried to sell me a home charger costing £700 when I enquired about leasing a 308 PHEV, despite me making it very clear that I have a 13 amp socket on my garage that suits my needs quite adequately. He tried to claim that the wall box “would charge the car better’. Fortunately I’m not that naive.
@@weenedonpetrol 🤣 typical dealer, full of BS hoping you are gullible enough to believe what they say.
Never ask a deal for their recommendation, never believe a word they tell you, that's the best mantra
Buyer beware...do your own research.
Hi Pete, thanks for your honest personal experiences. I myself am currently still driving a 2015 BMW 120d xdrive with 230'000 km on the odometer. So I am already looking around what the alternatives are. First, I was looking forward to the electric 1 series, but as we will retire early in a year and a half and want to travel around Europe, the question became different. More space in the car, electric is the future, but the quality of charging infrastructure is very different within all european countries. Especially southern Europe is still a problem. Something that gets better every year, though. The EV is more expensive to buy but my expectation is to save on maintenance costs in the long run. The battery life is an unanswered question, about which I see too many different experiences from very good to moderate. You can nullify the advantage of low maintenance costs in one fell swoop if you have to start replacing the battery after only 150'000 km. As for charging times. After we retire we will have time, so somewhere in a town charging the car for a few hours and having lunch and exploring the area in the meantime will be fine, no more commuter stress. So every use case is different and the choice remains dependent on individual circumstances. On taxes. In the Netherlands, from say 2030, they want to introduce a tax on the number of kilometres you travel. Since cars these days are driving computers, this is not very difficult. So it does not necessarily have to be on the electricity bill, but it is clear that the tax on petrol and diesel has to be compensated somewhere. In Switzerland where I live now, they are not thinking about it yet.. Best regards from a Dutchie in Switzerland.
2 additional comments. First, you may have a couple of hours in town...but it is absolutely unknowable as to how many others are going to be waiting for that same charger. Second and definitely most important. Fire. These batteries have spontaneously ignited and destroyed everything from laptops to airplanes and buildings. My friend's son works with a major insurance company and they are looking very carefully at these fires and the average cost of damages vs. ICE...and the preliminary data is not good at all. Apparently these battery fires behave very differently than normal ICE fires with far less destructive cost. Discussions have been held with the word "surcharge" being heard more and more often. However, there is another surcharge that will most assuredly be coming and that is something Australia is already doing. They just decreed that any future charging wall boxes must be completely separate of the current residential electric service and have a separate meter to allow separate billing of EV charging. This is where the money is going to come from to pay your fair shard of road taxes (and anything else they can dream up for EV owners).
Also, there are a number of people who do not want these cars parked next to them because of these unexplained instantaneous ignitions and the resulting fires. I'm speaking of full EV vehicles only....NOT Hybrids. I am getting ready to buy a Hybrid because to me, there is too much uncertainty about a lot of issues surrounding full EV vehicles topped off with the real safety concerns of these batteries. They're even talking about requiring EV's to be parked in a separated area away from ICE and Hybrids. Go figure. My neighbor won't let his kids anywhere near a full EV vehicle (including school or public busses) and, TBH, neither will I. They have got to figure out this explosive battery problem soon.
They’ve talked about it in California as well. Distances are much greater here than in Europe (I had a daily 100 mile commute to work for 10 years) so I don’t think that would be a popular idea.
@@mattrowan2680why would you buy a hybrid? Unless it's a company car to pay less tax, they're a bit of a scam.
Generally speaking, Tesla has the best charging infrastructure. If you want to do roadtrips, you might want to look into them. Also, I found that they offer the best value-for-money at the moment (just bought one and no, I‘m not rich).
Also, you don’t need to charge your battery to 100%. Nobody does that on long-distance-trips. Cars charge really fast when the battery is empty and _really_ slowly if they are already nearly full. So you charge for like 15-20 minutes and continue your trip. Unless you want to take a longer break anyway of course. When the battery is empty again, you are ready for a small break, too.
Here in the Midwest U.S. a local Ford Dealer wanted to add several charging stations to align with Fords mandates and was told by the local power company that was not enough power in the area to do it. In the adjoining neighborhood with one wall unit it browns out the street when used at full power.
USA?
ne box browns out the neighborhood? Sounds like a seriously degraded grid. maybe you ought to consider a solar roof to protect you from outages due to winter storms, let alone electric cars.
Same where I live. There is a $100 plus charge (per) electric vehicle from the electric company (It needs its own meter). Also the normal car registrations is 50-100 for 2 years. Electric vehicles are charged that plus a road surcharge of currently $100 a year. It cost 200 extra for plates and at least $100 a month to charge it. Not including usage.
The long and short of this is, the power authority here and many elsewhere have gotten away with taking profits over the years and not re-investing in infrastructure improvements. From generation to distribution, much is required for the future. Petroleum corporations have taken customer money and reinvested in more refueling stations and the production infrastructure for over 100 years. Some of those now are getting on the EV charging distribution bandwagon.
$8k electricians quote to upgrade & install a Level 2 charging unit in my garage That's it no EV 4 me my house was built in the 60s & I'm not going through the anxiety of an hour to charge at stations that may or may not be working
After seeing the water spot on the windshield for so long, it dawned on me that one might be concerned about the affect it would have on your range......recently many EV drivers on the east coast in the US experienced cold winter days and shortened battery life. So much that they had to drive without the heater running just to make it to the next charging station. Batteries will always be the Achilles heel of this movement. Always.
Maybe.... but battery technology is continually evolving... "Necessity is the Mother of Invention" ... From what I've seen, I am confident workable solutions are being found.
@@Paul99T we know all the elements of the periodic table and we know their electrical properties. There is no magical new element that could be discovered. Once you know the mathematical equation you can quite easily calculate every possible combination of elements to determine their performance as a battery. The evolution of batteries is just tinkering around with the engineering of the boxes.
@@Paul99T Spot on, matey!
@@Paul99T This kind of logic confounds me! In what way is it evolving? We've had Duracell AA's for decades...no one has improved on that. Same for 12v car batteries. There's absolutely no reason to state that some new kind of battery will be invented unless you have evidence. And by the way, if one were to be invented, existing EVs would become worthless overnight!
If we follow your logic we might as well plan to dismantle the NHS on the grounds that in the future we'll have devices likes Dr McCoy had on Star Trek!
@@tentruesummers9043 It's this kind of "logic" that just makes me facepalm. Clearly you've not bothered to go look at what's going on in the world of battery tech, but you're basically writing off the work of thousands of scientists and industrialists based on..... the existence of a Duracell AA battery? Good grief.
"There's absolutely no reason to state that some new kind of battery will be invented unless you have evidence." - Just google "new battery technologies", there's enough links there - to reputable sources, I might add, not just puff pieces and other crankery - to keep you busy for several hours.
I've given this a great deal of thought, and I have done some trips in my Bolt EV a couple of times. But 9 times out of 10 - if you plan the charging around your activities, it's almost as if it is out of mind. Luckily my EV is a leisure car - but if I needed to charge it publicly, I'd imagine it would give me some leisure time to myself. I plug in, read some of a book, or surf YT - it's just something I would insert into my daily life. If I'm going to take time watching YT videos, or reading a book. Why not do it while charging. And I think that is the disconnect that most people have. They are USED to going to the station, filling up, and going. But if you could integrate it into your normal daily life, I reckon you could do it. Much like with any change in life, it requires adjustment. I don't think we can ever relate living with an EV with living with a gas car comparatively. It's a new type of journey for people, and the more the public infrastructure improves, the better it'll get. One thing is for sure...I don't miss filling up the tank, changing oil/transmission fluid every 3 months, and everything that comes with maintaining an ICE car.
Thanks for pointing all of this out. I live in a densely populated area with tall buildings. Most parking places are underground and shared with your neighbors, with very few outlets since the electricity in those spaces is comunal. Installing a charger in there is practically impossible, since you have to request permission from the condominium and there’s no easy way to separate your charging costs from the communal costs of the building, so they mostly reject any request. I love EVs but they’re very unpractical in their current versions for highly populated areas. Ironically enough, most of them are meant to be driven in cities, where there’s a lower chance people have a private garage.
Our electricity rates have gone through the roof over the past few years. I have a Mazda6 2.2L diesel and plan to keep it a long time. I'm aretired electrician and still don't want an electric car. Great points you raise!👍🍻🤔
Classic bait and switch. Early adopters will get hit the absolute worst. Good Times.
I have a Mazda 2.2L Diesel Auto; it's a keeper!
My electricity rates haven't ever increased. They're free, as long as there is a sun in the sky.
@@jdgoodwin3136 I'm cobbling together a very DIY, Heath Robinson solar system, and it is not cheap. Absolutely not an option for many.
Though I think the "how long until it pays for itself" obsession is nonsense. The first time I can have hot food after an earthquake or typhoon is when it's "paid for itself".
It’s not bait and switch, more of a forced venture.
A Grand learning experience for all!
GREAT POINTS MADE!! Never thought about the transfer of taxes from petrol ⛽️ to electricity. They wont let that go away.😂
It is inevitable, roads will still need to be maintained.
OIL INDUSTRY LIES
Tax will not be transferred to electricity as this creates all sorts of issues. It will be charged per mile.
Do you think the sun will charge you more for electricity
I have an EV with off-street parking, a wall charger and do little long distance driving, so the combination works well for me. However, I think your points are valid, but I hope (and expect) that over time solutions will be found.
Hi pedro been watching some of your videos. One thing I always wondered if you are on the motorway you are only allowed 2 hours free parking, how do you get on if the chargers are in use or out of order what do you do
Completely agree. We bought a env200 van 18 months or 15000 miles ago. It's been an absolute joy to drive and does the local deliveries no problem. HOWEVER for longer trips that need a public charge, it's a nightmare. We had to cancel a delivery to Scotland as not a single fast charger in the area was working according to Zapmap. If we hadn't checked we would have been stuck up there for 6 hours on a slow one!!!. To cope with a swap to EVs and Heat pumps we would have had to start building a third more power stations and upgrading the supply network about 10 years ago. As there is still no sign of political leadership or practical answers to these massive issues I think the whole idea is doomed.
Maybe the folks in the US white House should watch this video and think thru it. Biden says all electric by 2035, yeah right. Green movement is ill conceived.
We should have had generating capacity in place 20 years ago! Burning Canadian woodchips to produce electricity is just beyond a joke. The idea that 2030 is achievable is so unrealistic that any politician would be mad to quote it.
It is indeed doomed.
@@rnf1227 but Gov will take ages to see it [and spend even more of taxpayer £££] espec after all the COPT27 BS and PM u-turned to actually attend. Also Charles inviting attendees to BuckHo meant even more private jet-miles - have they no F*ing idea ??
It was never " infrastructured" to survive. It's a distraction before they remove personal transport from the landscape. Go for a drivable historical vehicle , they will allow them after the shut down, as they own the majority ( as showpieces/ investments.
You bring up an excellent point.
If you buy an EV when you can charge it at home, you're limited when you move as to where you can get a flat since you now own a car that can't be charged if you don't have off-street parking included.
and, as an electrician, I can tell you it costs a LOT to install a charger, much less having to upgrade your electrical service (more $$$) to support the load... that is if your utility can support the load...
Hi Pete, I’m lucky I have an Ioniq 6, off street parking with Solar panels on my roof and an EV charger that uses solar as well as grid power. I have had the car since the first of July 23 and it hadn’t cost me anything to keep it charged until 26th Nov when I needed to make a long journey. I gave the car a full charge before leaving, cost £21.80, thought I’d top up at the services about 100 miles into the journey, charger occupied with cars waiting. Eventually plugged in at the hotel I staying at, but that only gave me 80% and as I noticed that my predicted range was overstated to the actual, this I thought was not enough, and
I was a little nervous about the return trip. I did eventually top up at the services on the way back but this was costly. Thankfully I don’t normally do long journeys.
Hi Allan. I am even luckier. I drive a diesel car. It takes me roughly 4 minutes to fully recharge it, and I can recharge it at thousands of places. I never suffer range anxiety, didn't pay any premium for the car, and it isn't suffering precipitous depreciation. You should try one.
Good factual even handed report. My ipinion had always been that the EV is a limited use solution that works best in large crowded cities
Thanks 🙏🏻
I've been considering those aspects for better than thirty years. I worked in high end electronics for forty years and I've been an automotive mechanic all my life since about age ten. So much of the reality of electric vehicles have simply been ignored, tamped down, hidden from the general public. I've got less problems than most, I am retired, live alone, and leave my home only once or twice a week, but regardless of those facts, when we have a challenging issue, we have no recourse if we are forced into these things. Thanks for laying things out so clear and forthright. I have no desire to leave my forty year old diesel car. So far, almost no consideration of the cost to make batteries, the destruction mining their materials imposes and the fact they have a set specific number of charging cycles directly related to depth of discharge and speed of recharging. At the current time, China is the source of most of the raw materials for producing the cars and the batteries, and appears to be a fact into the foreseeable future. "Rare earth minerals" have been sourced my whole life as they currently are. I was reading about "electric vehicles" since the mid sixties, knowing they were present at the beginning of "automobiles" and quite competitive with hydro-carbon fuel vehicles" at that time. When our governments assume authority to tell us what we can have, what we must do, it's called Tyrrany.
It is like the Childs fairy tale about the kings clothes . Everybody is told he looks wonderful and believes it . Then the child who has not been brainwashed says , he has got nothing on .
Hi John this is very well explained the comment is 💯 percent thanks from Toronto Canada 🇨🇦 enjoy your diesel car and your retirement
Most of the lithium will come from Australia, buy Pilbara shares. In NZ I charge my Leaf from solar, not fast but very cheap.
Hi John, I’m sorry that you find yourself in a lonely situation but I also hope you have achieved all those things you set out to do fifty years ago, and that you have achieved satisfaction. Peace and love bro. 🙏
@@howardsimpson489 sounds good but in the U.K. we only get about 4 months of useful sunlight per year so we are developing more nuclear energy which has a 100% clean output.
One other thing to consider is the impact on industry that uses cheaper 'off-peak' energy. If we are all charging vehicles overnight then the concept of 'off-peak' disappears, along with the cheaper rates. This could significantly raise prices to businesses whose cost model is based on the consumption of cheaper energy. The additional costs will have to be recovered, and who usually has to pay it? The consumer.
I'd argue this is kinda missing the point of moving use to different hours. Off peak is cheap because demand is so low that we have generation capacity that we have to use or find a way to not generate and that is expensive, so getting people to use it is good.
If we through pricing or reactive use mechanisms can eliminate times of very low use it makes the whole grid much cheaper to operate as we avoid a large portion of these costs. You see news about renewables being paid to not generate because it gets clicks, but every form of power generation gets paid to not generate. The flatter the power curve over time the less this happens and it is a huge part of the overall cost. Yes, businesses that specifically use the cheapest electricity at set times will have a worse time of it but that doesn't translate to "we all pay the cost" as the total cost is way lower, so we should all end up reaping the benefits.
Excellent video.i enjoyed your honesty.i am not against EVS,but the government has not thought this through thoroughly.The cost is astronomical. Wendy.
Great point about not having a charger at home and yes I agreed once the majority of vehicles become EV costs WILL go up and monitoring your whereabout will be controllable - The other point I read somewhere is if you have an accident and your battery are is damaged Insurance companies would more than likely Write your car off leaving you well out of pocket - To me we are sleep walking into a nightmare
Only the fools who buy these hideous vehicles are sleepwalking into the nightmare....most of us aren't....
Everything you're said is true. When the ID(3) was first featured on fully charged 4 or 5 years ago, I was super excited. I've had a Audi Q4 on order for nearly 12 months now. Since I've ordered it, the EV landscape has changed so much that I'm actually quite nervous about buying it. The cost to buy one is crazy. The current price of electricity has completely trashed all of the benefits of forking out for one and we haven't even got to the future tax implications. Overall the cost of ownership of an EV for your average driver probably doesn't make it worth it. In fact, in the current climate, I can quite easily knock up another spreadsheet that tells me to forget EV's and buy a petrol car instead. The price of sustainable electricity needs to come down urgently to make any of this work.
Just a few more windmills should do it
A gallon of petrol is currently approx. £7 with a petrol car lucky to see 40mpg in average conditions.
If you didn't have an EV tariff and pay 35p per kWh. EVs do average 4 miles per kw easily in average driving conditions.
You are getting 80 miles for £7.
If you have an EV tariff that's 240 miles for £7.
And the prices for an ev compared to a similar speced car with similar performance are similar if not less.
Electricity prices will settle down as we transition away from fossil fuels, also the power from my solar panels that I can use to charge my car still costs the same as it did before Putin invaded Ukraine. You are also ignoring the elephant in the room climate change. If we don't transition away from fossil fuels it will cost a lot more in the long run to keep driving a petrol or diesel car.
@@nervousfrog101 Where does one go to learn about the climate change topic? I hear a lot of people talking about it but am having trouble finding reliable/unbiased/evidentiary sources of information.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Cognitive_bias_codex_en.svg
You mention the price of *sustainable* electricity needs to come down, but wind and solar are already by far the cheapest sources of electricity and are only continuing to come down in price. It just takes time to build and install them. If we could snap our fingers and replace all electrical and fuel needs with wind and solar at today's prices we would all be paying substantially less for everything.
I'm the owner of an EV for 1 month, and totally agree with you on everything you have said. I would not even consider buying an EV without the possibility to have a Walbox on my own parking spot.
@@Elconbrioso Exactly. I believe that’s the point most people don’t get. Also, hunting for free quick chargers to get free energy could cost you more on the long term, since could lead to earlier battery failure.
@@Elconbrioso yes they also say that happens with mobile phones as well.
Never believe the narrative, do your own research.
@@Elconbrioso I don’t think it’s a maybe, I think it’s essential. If not possible due to access, then having a charger at work would probably be a good alternative. Two of my nearest neighbours have already got Tesla model 3s under their respective company car schemes and they both have charging at work already.
But you don't need a wall box - you can charge using house current for almost all your driving.
If you get into an accident, how much will it cost to replace the battery? Will your insurance premiums go up as a result of the high cost of repair?
You are spot on with the charging issue, if you consider the current housing stock of which around 25% are detached and more likely to have a drive (not guaranteed ), lets be positive and suggest that 45% of homes have the facility to take their car of the road and into their own driveway, that is still 55% of the country cannot charge the car at home.
The problem is these supposed gurus who must pay lobbyists to get party members to jump on the save the planet wagon, which is driving us back to the stone age.
Who is going to suffer the most? The working class and middle class, penalised while trying to keep the countries going.
These so called intellectuals can work out the IQ of a pickled onion but cannot get the jar open!!
Let’s consider the greenhouse gasses and carbon footprint etc, if we take all types of transport, cars, bikes, lorries, trains, planes, ships etc etc and put them all together it is still only a fraction of the pollution created to rear animals for meat consumption.
I think I would rather eat plant based products, buy myself a nice 5L mustang and still save the planet!!
Just a thought 🤣
The best and most comprehensive & honest review of an EV that has ever been placed on TH-cam so far mate 🙏🙏
Thanks Bud 👊
Agreed 👍🏻
It was a great presentation and point of view/centre of debate. However I dont think we watched the same video.🤷🏼♂
The idea that the infrastructure in a community will be an issue with everyone plugging in simultaneously is often way overblown. It might be slightly more of a concern where the layout of the land is quite vast with longer distances between destinations (requiring each commuter to use more kWh each day), but such concerns might be unwarranted for more compact countries where daily commutes are less than 25 miles. I say this because most EV's average roughly 4.0 miles per kWh and for such applications will only consume somewhere between 5 and 10kWh of juice per day which is unlikely to tax the grid. Using a home's Level 2 charger will allow most of these vehicles to recharge in just an hour or two. This idea that everyone will be pulling huge amounts of energy from the grid all night is not reality. With many EV's (soon most EV's), getting over 300 miles of range many owners will be going over a week without needing to charge. And if they do prefer to top off every night they'll only be pulling juice from the grid for an hour or two at 5-7kw which is not that high (or 1.8 kW if using the granny cable).
What many don't take into account is that for those having commutes of 60 miles or less each day (roughly 15 kWh of energy), a Level 1 (120V) granny cable is all that is necessary to fully recharge every evening. Not sure about the UK but here in the states there is simply no way that everyone pulling 1.8 kW of juice, even if at the same time for hours on end, will tax the grid. Here in the states most new homes have been getting 200 amp split-phase 120V (48 kW) service since the 70's. The grid in such a community will easily handle everyone plugging in at the same time even with Level 2 chargers (7 kw). The bigger issue in the states (and perhaps the UK as well), is not with electrical generation capacity but rather with ageing infrastructure. Many older communities have old substations designed to feed only 100A or less service to those homes in that area. These are being rapidly updated though.
@@jsouto77 🤔🤔
with regards to the estimated range, its often referred to as a guess-o-meter. the algorithm to determine estimated range considers battery capacity, rolling average draw (load), regen, accessories (air-con/heater) and historical data among other things. as the car gathers data, the guess is more accurate, however, outlier trips (a long drive in the country) may skew this data. it's essentially just guessing, because the car doesn't know how you're going to drive. the more consistent the trips you do, the more accurate the guess-o-meter will be
Yeah it's just the same with the displayed tank range in ICE cars. It's better off not to reset them, as you say, as in this video he didn't suddenly get a huge increase in EV range, he just had less of an idea of how far he'd get based on his typical driving. Funny how people really misunderstand this aspect of their predicted range - the clue is the word 'predicted' ;)
Also, outdoor temperature has a big impact on estimated range. The guessometer is a handy tool, but it should be used in conjunction with the actual battery percentage.
Very accurate. I will add that the electric car is currently a waste of freedom…
Great informative video fella 👍. Regarding the non residential charger ownership. It’s just like everything else. Just an adjustment. I wouldn’t say it’s as severe as you make it out to be. A lot of EV’s can now do in excess of 200 miles per full charge. It’s just about planning every now and again and keeping above 50% charge to make sure you are never short of a decent journey.
All good points. (see also Jayemm's video repeating these same points) EV's are great for the suburbanites, for everyone else, they don't work well at all.
I can throw in another problem: City governance doesn't know what to do about Public charging spots even. I just got a parking fine for staying 10 minutes past when my car had finished charging on one!
: City apartment dweller, phev owner, (company car), parked at one of closest chargers to my apartment-2 streets away, still inside my residents parking permit zone.
Other districts of same city don't police this, and you have non ev's/Phev's taking up the on street charging spots, because of course you do! there is never enough pakrkng in citys!
You are so right. Already in California, Edison charges upwards of $0.70 kWh if you don't want to suffer without AC between 4pm and 9pm. At $0.70 kWh, this makes most EVs really get around 20mpg. And more likely that electricity prices will continue to rise much faster than gas. It already has over the last decade.
Sorry to hear you are paying Commifornia so much.
In the midwest I pay .10 cents/kw on off peak.
Sounds like it's time to move.
But you could charge off-peak, at least most of the time, right?
@@8thman8no, he voted for this mess he can stay there and sit in it
@@8thman8 maybe if you freaks stopped biblethumping we'd consider it
If Robert is paying .70 he's on the wrong rate plan. I live in a valley in So Cal (it's hotter here) & SCE charges a *max* of .59 during *peak* time. It's only .27 per kWh overnight, which is when most of us would charge the car.
I had an ev in NZ with a wall box. As you said cheap and great. Now living back the the UK. In an appartment with underground parking for 120 cars. Owners of block wont allow charges. Charging facilities in surrounding 5 miles are rubbish. Only 3 fast chargers in area. Also over 70p a kw. I also think you underestimate range anxiety.
It's good you highlighted the problem. Theres no way we can change over from our frugal volvo v40. Good work
I like your thoughts Pete. I'm a year late but its still relevant. I live in a detatched home in a sunny climate, have a fully solar powered home and 2EVs. Public transport out of town is not adequate and expensive 10km from the city where public transport is free.. While living in Singapore I did not own a car, it woild have been economically and practically totally inneficient with a wait of only minutes for bus connection to the MRT.
Were I living in Nome Alaska an EV is not the answer anymore than owning a Mack truck for the school run in London. It boils down to not one solution for transportation for all people. Governments have a duty to ensure everyone has access to transportation, most of them are serving their own political agenda and not that of their people.
China is showing the way, in public transportation; don't try to re-invent the wheel.
The wife has just been away for 3 days in an AirBnB with her best friend Kate in an EV (Zoe). There's a few things to note which I found strange:
1. Kate won't drive with less than 50% battery as she has severe range anxiety
2. A top-up of the battery on the way to the AirBnB at a pub half way cost £15 for 20Kwh. Kate could have made it to the AirBnB and then charged for free, but range anxiety got the better of her.
3. At the pub, Kate had to stop eating her meal half way through to go out and move her car so she wouldn't get the overstayed-your-welcome charge.
4. Kate couldn't understand why the car wasn't charging at the AirBnB. It turns out that the AirBnB charger only works at night so it's cheaper to provide electric by the owners.
5. Kate set an alarm for 11:30 at night to get out of bed and check the car was charging.
6. Once the EV had charged the first night, Kate wouldn't use the car for the rest of the break because she wanted a full battery to get home and wasn't certain it would charge again overnight.
7. Kate insisted that her EV better and cheaper to run, however she actually charges at Aldi (sitting in the car for an hour until it charges) or her works place with free charging. Kate never charges at home even though she has a charger installed.
A true story....
The problem in this story is Kate not EVs in general. We dont stop going on boats because some people get seasick.
@@prabuddhaghosh7022 Our brilliant Secretary of Energy (doesn't know an ohm from a volt) has solved the EV charging problem Her demonstration of the convenience of long distance travel by EV by having her staff (paid for by us) drive hours ahead of her in reliable gasoline driven cars to occupy her charging stations ahead of her proved her point. By denying those waiting for the charging stations for hours while they occupied it for her exclusive use she has proven it.
We work for the government; it owns us.
@@prabuddhaghosh7022 Neither we command boats to be sole mean of transportation. ;)
@@prabuddhaghosh7022 So if it works for you, screw everybody else who isn't like you?...
Kate needs help..
So glad your raising this issue Pete, I actually tried an electric car for around 6 months. However I’m in the camp where I don’t have access to a home wall charger. Our street is completely off street parking so my only option was a granny cable out the window and hoped no one tripped over it and wait a day for it to charge or use public infrastructure. The likes of InstaVolt are now charging 0.66p per KWH, with a usable battery of 72 KWH, if I was filling up from almost empty (with a little in reserve for emergencies) it was costing me approximately £45 and with the car only getting around 250 miles per charge as a lot of my journeys are motorways or A roads at 60 mph (I live in the Cotswolds and as you will know everything is spaced out) it just wasn’t cost or time efficient. I spent some nights at 10pm waiting for over an hour for the car to charge to make sure I had enough charge in it for whatever journey I had to do the following day or two. I had also looked in to the possibility of getting a driveway installed and asked permission to get a dropped curb from council but was rejected due to our road having something called covenant which basically forbids anyone in our road from having driveways… So the electric car had to go, back in to a brand new F40 135i and I don’t regret it. I’m getting 40mpg on my commute to work so it works out the same kind of cost without the hassle of charging. This is a topic that need a LOT more debate as the Government have not taken this in to account 1 bit. If and when I can have a wall charger I wouldn’t hesitate to swap back to an electric car, but without its hassle and as or more expensive then fuel.
A perfect example of what I was talking about 👍
I have none of those issues. I park it in our garage or under the car port and charge it; outlets a few feet away. Costs about $1.50 in electricity for 36 mile round trip.
@@mikespurg8006
We don't all live in the land of the free! You dope - driving an electric car is not what you think it is, but in time, you will learn.
"my only option was a granny cable out the window and hoped no one tripped over it" ..... where there's blame, there's a claim. Another issue no one's discussing. Just sayin'!
@@glossypeacock7552 That’s my point exactly. I didn’t do it for the exact reason you stated. I lay a cable across the path to charge my car, a school child walking home from school or a dog walker out at night and they fall and god forbid break their hip or something serious it would of been my neck in the loop. I live in a quiet road with no through road, it’s a dead end at the end of the road (unless you carry on in to the farmers field full of sheep and I couldn’t get permission for a wall box from my council and I was prepared to do it properly get the required permits etc have a driveway laid etc. I hate to think about all the people that live in flats or high rise buildings with literally no hope. Government needs to get a grip. Then again they’ve not got a grip with sod all at the moment so…. Who knows, but for now, for me and my circumstances ICE power is the only way. We also have zero public transport. Have a station but only 2 trains a day stop there just for the commuters in to London or Oxford but that’s your lot, no busses and forget a taxi. If you ask for a taxi to my village most taxis will say either never heard of the place or not going there….
Absolutely brilliant discussion on this! Tax will make your electric bill feel like filling up your old car with petrol as the good old days of cheap fuel.
Here is the way I see here in Canada. Presently tax per 1 liter of petrol is somewhere in the range of 57% In Vancouver. This includes the carbon tax but more importantly, municipal tax is almost 30%. This is charged to subsidize the building and repairing of local roads and bridges, as well as supporting our local mass transit system.
So with that, consider that when the proverbial last litre of petrol is pumped into a gas vehicle here….that 30% surcharge will pretty much immediately start to show on your electric bill…but that will most likely start much sooner…as roads will continue to need repairs and mass transit can’t make it on fares alone it seems. So whatever calculations you are doing now, please make sure to allow for a strong surge in electricity cost at least partially because for now EV’s are not carrying the municipal tax costs…but you can be sure that they will be…along with all other taxes as well.