Captain America: Civil War Didn't Need Zemo
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
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Captain America: Civil War is my favorite Marvel Cinematic Universe movie. And yet. I never completely bought the conflict between Steve and Tony but I think I finally know what doesn't work for me. And I have a way to change it.
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I don’t know if “I don’t care what you did in the past under mind control, what you did in the present led to my friend getting paralyzed” rolls off the tongue as good as “I don’t care, he killed my mom” lol
Plus it's his mom, there are few deeper connections that most people will have than with their mothers.
@@novaiscool1 Truth
@@novaiscool1 Not only that but it also comes back to the point that Tony regrets and resents the fact he never had a real last moment or goodbye with his parents, his parents deaths and the lack of closure he had with it really defined Tony and who he was on wards, its why in Endgame him hugging Howard is a big deal because its something he's always wished he could have done and i think with that hug and short time spent with Howard in Endgame Tony finally got that much needed closure.
@@novaiscool1 also, rhodes is a soldier, and an avenger. getting injured is expected in their line of work. a soldier getting off to avenge the death of his comrade in a war is a bit tad too irrational. but tony's mom is a civilian, and she's not in a war, so she didn't deserve to die like that, the feeling of revenge is more bitter, and it's something that the audience will be more willing to accept.
@@MarvinTolfo honestly given that Rhody is Tony's best friend and Tony isnt a real soldier I could see him being enraged to the point of hunting down Bucky. His mother is just the easier and more vulnerable heart string to tug on.
Hey... I like that you brought Sharon in for the fight, that’s like the first time I’ve seen someone go “how bout more Sharon?”
It’s weird that nothing was planned for her. I mean she only appeared in Russo brothers movies and she still didn’t even appear in the last two Avengers movies.
The fact that she was on the promotional stuff for Team Cap and didnt EVEN help in the fight was a big misstep
Karl Hurd yah I know, she was even in the LEGO airport battle (as a terribly designed mini figure)
Exactly. Sharon in the comics is supposed to be Agent 43
I have always thought "how about more Sharon?"
Zemo was needed to show how forgiving Black Panther is. He understood Zemo's reason for revenge. This carries on to the Black Panther movie where we see T'Challa empathizing with Killmonger just like he did with Zemo. Both times kinda betraying his father's legacy.
moviefan yeah
But T’challa forgiving Bucky works just as well, if not more effectively. There can be a parallel between him and Iron Man, since Bucky killed both their parents. T’challa forgives Bucky by the climax/end of the movie, while Iron Man doesn’t.
@@angelaphsiao but without Zemo on what grounds did blackpanther decide to forgive bucky? Because Zemo's revenge is what taught BP that revenge consumes your ability to see reason. That's why he chose to forgive bucky because he saw himself in Zemo..
Jcie Maybe BP watching the cap/iron man fight and recognizing himself in the anger shown there?
@@jcie3424 He also said revenge "Has consumed them" in meaning towards Iron Man and Captain America. He had more than one example of how revenge can consume someone. Especially if he was there for the airport scene to see Rhode's injury and seeing Iron Man continuing to let revenge drive a wedge between him and other heroes which can show Black Panther nothing gets resolved with the mindset.
* Remove HYDRA from The Winter Soldier.
* Remove Zemo from Civil War.
I feel the same way about both of these fixes. Yes, it might streamline the stories a bit...but it also makes them a little less epic.
Zemo is a red herring. He's there to give you someone who you THINK they're going to unite to fight together, only at the last moment there's a twist and they fight each other. Without that twist...eh.
Zemo wasn't a red herring, the super soldiers were. Zemo was a plot device.
This twist was ruined for me and is why I don't watch trailers for movies anymore. Trailers showed the final Tony v Cap&Bucky fight, so as soon as they joined forces in the bunker I was like well, obviously something is gonna make them fight again, because there's a fight scene between them in the trailers that hasn't happened yet.
@@V1zharan That's why you don't watch trailers, they spoil the movies.
Movies trailers should only include stuff from the first third of the movie.
Haven't heard all of Nando's pitch yet, but I agree with this sentiment.
you completely ignore the fact that Zemo is thematically and literally connected with the Sokovia accords. the avengers caused the death of his family. Zemo is a victim of their actions, they created him. the antagonist is kind of the victim of their wars. I think it works really well and better than your version.
To me, the problem with Civil War was that it didn't show the public opinions and reaction to the Avengers damages
Technicly they did with this big ONZ meeting.
What did you have in mind? Like a news report or what? I think they explained it pretty well with the UN meeting
Maybe interviewing civilians,like a parallel to the end of the 1st Avengers. Although we did get the moment with the lady whose son died in Sokovia.
@@theoxyscape7057 That scene with the lady was way more effective than a news montage a la first avengers would have been.
This is exactly why Zemo is needed in Civil War. He represents the public opinion and reaction to the damages left by the Avengers.
Nando might’ve just unknowingly killed N-Sync with the Death Note
not like people would notice. Ok, perhaps with Justin they would
Yeah, “Unknowingly”.
If you're going with the "Tony wants to kill Bucky because Rhodey is paralyzed" route, you're just setting this up for a Martha, but with James instead.
Brilliant
How so?
@@chucknorrisonlinux Buckey and Rhodey's actual first names are both james.
Plus paralysis in the MCU really isn’t what it is in our world, especially as a friend of Tony Stark.
They had that moment when Crossbones said Bucky is still alive and Cap froze lol.
On my opinion, Zemo was merely a drop that made the glass water break.
Absolutely great way to label his role in the movie. :)
I like dis
Can someone explain the wording of this? I don't understand what this means
@@nynonimousnynth3844 My best translation: Zemo was 'The Straw that broke the camels back'. Cap and Tony already had a pretty deep divide between them and Zemo was the last little bit that was needed to finally break them, and the avengers by extension, apart.
The Avengers were already not exactly a tight union, as Ultron points out he has what the Avengers never will, harmony
In this film Peggy dies so Bucky is the only tie Cap has left to his old life, Tony has lost Pepper so he’s maybe not in the right frame of mind, all that coupled with tensions between Cap and Tony naturally as shown in previous films and now the accords too, Zemo was the final thing to break them apart
Zemo was like a physical representation of why The Accords were made. That being the collateral damage left in The Avengers’ wake. He was essentially their ghost haunting them for not being able to save Sokovia and instead having to blow it up. In this version of the story though, while The Accords fit more into the narrative, but I feel like you lose the bystander element in it.
Agree
I was about to say something like that. Zemo was important to the narrative while helping black panther in his character development while giving iron man an in-character reason to go against Cap's trust during the end of the movie
Unnecessary? Yes. But is Zemo still a sympathetic villain with human motivations, who fits into the movie thematically and narratively and (after the Accords legally divided the team), won at the end by successfully tearing apart the leaders without even touching them? Hell yes.
absolutely
Mr. Movie Mafia yeah I wish they could have give a flashback to Zemo’s point of view
He didn't touch them, except for that whole BLOWING UP THE UN thing. I'm fine with the *idea* of Zemo, I just hate how and why they wrote him to be and do what he's been and done. He literally framed Bucky by just *being in a car park and being a white guy*. That grainy photo didn't look *anything* like Bucky, and that's 100% of what drove the entire fucking story the whole way through, it was so dumb. If he didn't manage to successfully frame Bucky so comically easily and stupidly, basically the rest of the movie wouldn't even happen. They'd be like "Yeah obviously some terrorist set off a bomb, they can do that, you don't need super powers to set off a bomb" and then they'd find and kill Zemo with international extrajudicial prejudice, the fucking hypocrites.
@@Szanth did it? I thought when I watched the fillm it kinda looked like him but I don't even remember what the picture looked like
The problem is you could say the characters would've gotten to where they'd gotten to without Zemo, because that was just the natural flow of the story & characters. Storywise, he's really nothing more than a pop up (just after something happens with the Avengers) with the words IT WAS ME laced on him.
I think Zemo is Lex Luthor from BvS done right. We finally get the mastermind behind the scenes manipulating both sides of the conflict, with no one realising until it's too late, sparking the divide between Tony and Steve. He is what Lex should have been. Plus, there is a complaint against Zemo that his plan is too convenient. I don't think so, as his plan technically fails and he adapts, allowing the fight to happen.
The only thing that was convenient to me was him getting into the room with Bucky as the psychiatrist. Everything else was fine imo
I personally thought Zemo ruined Civil War just like Lex did to the conflict in BvS, the rest of the movies differ in quality, but they both would have been 10x better without a mastermind villain.
I like a lot of this - but my favorite moment of the film was T'Challa and Zemo having that talk at the end. "I'm done letting it consume me" is T'Challa's best character moment and I don't know if his inclusion in the film feels as central to the story without it. It would sort of feel like Hawkeye's introduction in Thor as opposed to his super interesting arc in the film. Also how does he end up with Bucky at the end of the film/during infinity war?
Well you can definitely make him a much more present threat initially, and he can still have that catharsis at the end just with Bucky in person this time, or tony who isn’t done letting this consume him
@@captainkiwi77 that makes sense. I'm sure he would still have a badass entrance. The character arc does seem a little less interesting if his only target is Bucky though, who isn't actually a vengeful, evil character, because then it's more like "oh you're not such a bad guy" instead of "vengeance isn't as important as justice, I'm not going to let my life be controlled by my hatred"
@@captainkiwi77 Yeah you could still have T'challa start that same conversation with Tony - and have him try to talk Tony down to no effect. That'd work just as cinematically, I like to think.
That's my favorite moment, too!
Sokovia Accords: *stop moving the plot along*
Zemo: Fine, I'll do it myself.
If nando fixed the phantom menace he would be like "no, we needed to focus MORE on the taxation of trade routes"
1) Jar Jar is key to all of this.
2) It's like poetry, it rhymes.
3) "they fight"
Love these jokes. I tried reworking The Phantom Menace a while ago and it went really out of control, even though I like the original movie
"joey, jc, lance, chris, justin"
nando: i don't like justin hammer
(Keep in mind, I love NvM)
Nando: Civil War minus Zemo
Me: Note to self, make Iron Man 2 rewrite without Justin Hammer
Thats too easy an Iron Man 2 movie script without Hammer would be 1 line.
"skip to iron man 3"
you wouldn't dare
Edit: Jokes aside now that I'm in a timeline where sam rockwell plays justin hammer and dances I can't accept one where that doesn't happen, though Justin and Ivan as mere enablers for tony destroying himself sounds way more interesting
I would have loved to have Iron Man 2 without Justin Hammer, so they could have used him later in a good movie that deserved him
ELEPHANT POWER PRODUCTIONS🐘 I even thought of video for nando called Samuel Sterns the Leader of the planet Sakaar
Elephant power Productions check out Sean chandler talks about rewrite of Iron Man 2 you reduce Justin hammers role and gave Ivan more screen time.
you completely ignore the fact that Zemo is thematically and literally connected with the Sokovia accords. the avengers caused the death of his family. Zemo is a victim of their actions, they created him. the antagonist is kind of the victim of their wars. I think it works really well and better than your version.
Yeah but Zemo would still be the villain without the Accords. If the Accords didn't exist, Zemo would still want to destroy the Avengers. He probably would target some other high level diplomatic figure while posing as Bucky, but the conflict of the movie would still happen without the Accords
@@ghostgabe81 Zemo straight up said he did all of this because the Avengers brought there "war" to his home.
Zemo isn't a spy or some special dude with an incredible background, he said that it took him a lot of time and insane amount of preparation language study etc etc to get to the point where he feels like hi splan would work.
So no he wouldn't have been the villain if Sokovia was still here because the whole reason why he became bad was because Sokovia and his family were gone.
I never liked Captain america and Ironman was pretty boring to me at this point in the series so removing Zemo basically removes the last bit of appeal this movie would have for me or a fan who was fading from the movies.
I think what gave is saying is that zemo would still want his revenge without the accords coming to pass.
@@blueberryindigo3087
And while Bucky's existence provided a very personal conflict for our characters, in fact too personal, I honestly think focusing more on the principles, execution, and the potential consequences of the accords would've provided a more ideal "war" between the heroes, not to mention being more faithful to the source materials which honestly deserve more "actual" representations considering that superhero movies tend to not follow the books they're based on.
And does anyone find it strange how Bucky was literally unrelated to the subject matter itself???
The accord was made to counter the indefinite power and even authority superhero had when facing global crisises.
But Bucky was not a product of this issue in the first place. Bucky, however, can be a representation of the government's shadowy enforcer against the populus, like how the Accord is just another manifestation of the government's invisible hand, but this also isn't explored in the movie.
I can certainly get behind this edit though I liked Zemo's presence for one key point, he's human. Among all the potential gods that after "enhanced" individuals, Zemo literally exploits the weaknesses of the invincible avengers as humans, not superheros. I'd love to see more of that flawed humanity in all the cast, Ross and others affected by the very thing the accords are "meant" to protect.
There remains something unresolved here - T’Challa doesn’t forgive Bucky, so him and steve do not have a positive relationship going into infinity war.
The thing with Zemo in this film is he’s a red herring for the finale, he’s there to show Black Panther that revenge while sympathetic is not the way, and his entire plan to divide the Avengers is incidental to the Accords.
Ironman and Cap may well have argued over the accords but they likely would have come to some sort of compromise because that is what people do (although at the end Cap does say he wishes they’d agreed on the accords so maybe they would have split anyway), but the personal element of the story (mainly Bucky) is the final thing that drives Cap and Tony apart
True. Also remember, Cap was ready to sign until Iron Man revealed that Scarlet Witch was being confined to the Avengers Compound. The Accords were just a piece of why Cap & Iron Man fell out. It was their differing personalities, the Accords & the straw breaking the camel's back was Steve knowing Bucky killed Tony's parents.
@@Batman88878 I was frustrated that there was no mention of Wanda's house arrest situation in Nando's video. This was an important part of the conflict that showed how the governmental oversight Tony wanted was already significantly restricting the freedoms of heroes. Cap would have tried to protect Bucky no matter what, and maybe Falcon would have followed him just because he's Cap, but it was the Wanda incident that directly led to the team splitting and the coalition of heroes forming under Cap. Otherwise, it would have been "Cap and friends go off-script to save Bucky" not a civil war
Longing, Rusted, Seventeen, Daybreak, Furnace, Nine, Benign, Homecoming, One, Freight Car
.......Ready to comply.....
Person, woman, man, camera, TV
wrong order tho. Btw, I just noticed on of the words is Homecoming, were they hinting at spidey's movie there?
@@applehack97 not intentionally
_''Homecoming''_
Ah yes....
My "one small change" would be to have Zemo - a military officer and member of the Sokovian aristocracy - be the key driver behind the Accords. It would tie both plot threads together nicely and also allow for a massive heel turn by Zemo at the end of the first act.
Love this alternate Civil War but I can't give up the "he killed my mom" line.
I think you're also sitting on a really great motivation for Clint here. Stick with your mind control stance and suddenly Clint has crimes to pay for 4 years prior. It makes his involvement with Wanda and team Cap personal
I like this but one big problem I have with it is that Black Panther is far less interesting in this version because he doesn't get an arc. At the end of the original Black Panther chooses to give up on revenge and saves Zemo because realizes he has become like Zemo. In this rewrite, you lose all of that. Even if Black Panther got an arc where he forgives Bucky it would still be less interesting than what we originally got.
Well, done, Nando. Your new version makes it now Steve's story by focusing on his conflict, and not an Avengers tale, justifying the title "Captain America: Civil War."
And why it’s such a problem for people that it features the Avengers? It makes the film better and Cap is always the main character whose viewpoint we follow and whose decisions are vital.
I'd have had Ant-Man on Iron Man's side only to switch sides creating the moment in the comics where Spider-Man switches sides. I know Peter's in this film but it makes more sense to me for Scott Lang to fill that role. He joins up with Tony so he can show Cassie he's this big superhero on the right side of the law and when he finds out what's going on turns on Tony so Cap can go save Bucky because he gets going to extreme lengths to save the people you care about.
You know, the reason I like Zemo being in civil war, despite it making the story a bit more cluttered is that it allows for them to include a bit of a longer running antagonist. See, unlike most 'smart, scheming' villains, Zemo both unequivocally wins, survives the film, and his actions have lasting impacts on the story (hence the scattered avengers of infinity war). Honestly, the biggest waste is if they don't bring him back, where he would constitute a real threat, having more or less destroyed the avengers the first time. Given the only thing he failed to do in civil war was die, you can have a 'cunning mastermind' villain who's actually pulled off a cunning plot successfully- it's much easier to believe that a 'bad-punching-man' might pose a threat if unleashed again, but a guy who's only advantage is that he's smart really needs to have shown that he can outsmart the heroes to be taken seriously, and Zemo did.
That was always my main issue with Civil War. It felt more like two friends being pitted against each other by a third kid on the playground and in the midst of a little tussle just one kid gets seriously injured but recovers nonetheless. There's no lasting consequences to the story, and within the story the only consequence is 'we've split up for now' which is kind of rendered pointless considering Age of Ultron and Iron Man 3. Not to mention Thor's not even around when Tony says Avengers split up at the beginning of Infinity War. Civil War could have been much more special if Marvel and Disney were bold in taking some risks that they eventually took with Infinity War.
Except the lose in infnity war because of civil war, so I'd say it did have lasting effects.
Before finding your marvel rewrites I was finding myself disillusioned with the franchise after realizing all the amazing missed opportunities,bad choices and loose plot threads that disconnected me from overall themes and storyline I thought would be explored but you have rewoken some kinda of love for the series again
I LOVE the idea of Bucky killing T’Chaka in the past (maybe the early 2000s) because T’Challa entering the MCU as black panther already is smoother IMO. this, of course changes the Black Panther movie. He only gets one challenge fight with Killmonger but then the end battle could be the two of them fighting again with no suits or weapons. Beautiful.
Two different challenge battles and another fight with Killmonger was a bit much to be honest. One challenge fight and one super fight would have been ideal.
That would be far too repetitive of the actually greta setup that he killed Tony’s parents.
“Should they wear masks?” Yes. They should. We’re in a pandemic.
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The problem is most of these modern ish event Comics being adopted is that they're all basically trying to be the next Watchmen and subvert the superhero genre and none of them are anywhere close to that level of skill in terms of writing.
Black Panther in Civil War was dope. “WHAT ARE THOOOSEE” joke in his own movie
What do those two things have to do with each other?
That has nothing to with BP though. His sister said that.
Imagine a teenager making an awkward joke. Madness.
Yeah he was amazing in CW but just kinda meh in BP. Not a threatening, imposing warrior, just some dude who chokes up when he sees his ex
"I never yielded and as you can see, I am not dead" is easily more badass Black Panther moment than anything in Civil War.
TheWolverine1987 I mean sure there are moments but overall I felt like he was a less impressive character, or at least that his character seemed to change a lot from one movie to the next
It seems to me that Zemo is there to create continuity between the films, since his motivation is revenge for his family dying during the events of Age of Ultron. It helps create the sense that what the Avengers do has ramifications in the world outside of the immediate action of the movies.
I actually loved Zemo. A "normal" guy (Just armed with determination, patience, adaptability, and a deep hatred towards the avengers). As a way of showing even a "normal" guy could break a group conformed by the strongest humans in the planet, by exploiting their psychological vulnerabilities. He was the personification of all the collateral damage and lost lives, and that made it more personal and visceral. Civil war is about an inevitable conflict in ideologies, yes, but zemo was that little, bitter and angry drop that filled the cup. Also he was essential for Tchalas Arc. If anything spiderman wasn't necessary, antman wasn't necessary, sharon carter wasn't necessary, 80% of the movie wasn't necessary!... So whats your point?? Want a barebones story with 120 minutes of just Steve and Tonny in a room fighting over the Sokovia accords?
Hail Hydra.
This is literally what I’ve been saying for awhile. I really like Civil War but I have the same problem with this movie as I do with BvS: a villain causing a rift between the superheroes. I don’t mind them being a catalyst, but there should’ve been more films building up to Civil War and escalating the tension between Steve and Tony’s ideologies. It’s WAY more compelling to have the heroes willingly fight one another over differing perspectives. Like I said, I really enjoyed Civil War and I do think it’s one of the better MCU films, and I think it makes total sense to have this come out before Infinity War, but more build-up and more detail given to the characters’ progression would’ve been nice.
Zemo WAS the catalyst though.
Tony and co. COULD have stopped fighting Steve at any time, but they didn't because of their allegiance to carry out the Accords.
There WAS no manipulation. Plus, the previous MCU movies DID lead up to Tony and Steve's differences. Remember in Avengers 1? Cap tells Tony to get with the program, but Tony tells Cap that the Avengers aren't soldiers.
However, in Civil War, Tony has been consumed by guilt and a desire to lesson the burden on himself, he is willing to be a soldier if it means rectifying that,
Meanwhile, Cap has grown to distrust the government in Winter Soldier, which includes the Accords. In Age of Ultron, he even articulated this to Tony when he says "Anytime someone tries top end a war before it starts, innocent people die."
There WAS logical progression that led to Civil War that dates back to Avengers 1.... Zemo was just the catalyst needed to set it off.
Bryson Turner the movie takes a turn as Zemo and Bucky get at the forefront of the of the film. The Accords aren’t as important anymore. Zemo pushes the narrative forward with his framing of Bucky and the new plot point with the super-soldiers (which was a red-herring), not the Accords, the actual thing that sets off the conflict. I know that Age of Ultron and other previous films set up the differences between Cap and Iron Man, but the scale and tension of the differences between the characters doesn’t feel as monumental as it could be if the Accords were treated like Nando’s, with more of an even profound connection to the characters and past events
Except the conflict wouldn't be as dire without the accords hence why their in the movie.
Oh Nando, that title is a pretty bold claim
the most impact the accords had in the mcu was in Agents of SHEILD.
@Amazing Spiderman Fan 2002 because of candice
I thought that would be Captain America: Winter Soldier that would have the most effect because....you know
Peter shouldn't join Iron Man because he likes him. He should join in because to the public Barnes has been revealed to be an assassin for Hydra. Peter is naive and young and doesn't think "Hey Cap probably has good reason for it.
Peter instead sees that something is going on at the airport where "Nazi assassin Bucky Barnes" is being held. Peter looks at the TV and we cut.
Peter swings in and grabs the shield (because he sees Cap is breaking Barnes out)
Peter lands and says "Hey everyone"
Iron Man will instead be like "Who the hell are you?"
Peter: "I'm... Spi---"
Iron Man then cuts him because he didn't really ask him who he was he just said it as an expression.
The fight then continues.
Spider-Man and Cap's fight is gonna be different
Cap: Look kid there is alot going on here that you don't understand
Spider-Man: You are breaking out a mass murderer!
Cap: He didn't do it
Peter: "Then why are you breaking him out. If he really didn't do it then why can't he stand trial". Peter doesn't know that Barnes will be killed. This way Peter is less of some dumb-ass. He actually has something to do.
Bla bla fight continues
Cap: Where are you from?
Peter: Queens
Cap: Brooklyn
Well done. Also, I think it's fair to drop the Queens/Brooklyn thing given the gravity of the situation.
Edit: I'm talking about the Queens/Brooklyn banter between Cap and Spidey.
@@drifter_d Well we kinda would need it to be close to Peter otherwise it makes no sense how he got there
@Black Ninja I didn't say he wasn't naive in the movie. He also is in the movie less in my version. If you seriously think they did him perfectly in Civil War no plot holes or character in consistencies then you are being naive
It's still looks bad. "look at me I'm Spiderman that fight bad guy and I fight VS capitan America #1 hero where I live without a thought". Spiderman involvement in fight was just outsider perspective to whole situation. He doesn't had any connections with any avengers that's why he was amazed how they were.
I'm pretty sure Spider-man fought because he was too naive to believe everything Tony said. Like from his perspective he is only fighting to stop Captain America from doing something dumb.
I would rather have made Zemo been responsible for the accords, either by setting up the crossbones incident through funding or by having been a known political figure in the UN, almost a Palpatine level of playing both sides, just to connect the two plots better
I think you’re forgetting that there was a pretty major b-plot in the comics where the villains, particularly Red Skull, are taking advantage of the heroes fighting to manipulate things still. That b-plot results in the most devastating part, the death of Captain America. Zero fills this role by manipulating things in what seems to be the b-plot, in the confusion of the Sokovia Accords and his result is the death of the team. Zero is the villain who won.
You could also say that while they're in the final sight, the chances of Rhodey surviving are still in question
I think this should have been two movies. One with the accords and one with Zemo cuz neither are used to their fullest potential imo.
Problem: There's a setup at the beginning of the movie where they reveal the trigger words to control the Winter Soldier. The payoff occurs when Zemo breaks Bucky out. In this version, there's no payoff, and that buildup is just tossed aside.
Nando: "Joey, JC, Lance, Chris, Justin."
Hydra Sleeper Agents: "Ready to comply."
Maybe when iron man, cap and bucky are at the bunker, bucky can start apologizing about all the people he killed, he can let howards name slip. Tony says "what?", cap realizes what bucky admitted to doing, puts himself between the two, protecting bucky, everyone goes silent, and then tony says "you killed my dad?", his visor covers his face and he starts walking towards them, "you killed my mom?", and cap and bucky run from him, and then the fight happens.
Edit: Also later cap and bucky find panther, whos found the diaries of buckys handlers, and understands that bucky was in fact mind controlled, changes sides, vouches for bucky, and speaks against the accords
Great video, I always thought that the writers did really want to do the civil war movie. They’ve said that it wasn’t their idea, they started writing a Bucky-centric sequel and Fiege walked in and said “it’s Civil War now” but they kept making their Bucky/zemo movie with civil war as just surface conflict. It feels like 2 different movies that could each have a feature length focus.
A half-hour Nando v Movies video is exactly what I needed right now.
Actual Civil Wars can have villains though Nando. Say, and this is just off the top of my head, one side wants to keep owning people and the other doesn't.
Listening to this on the beach was super dope. Great video as always. Been around before the first one small change, arguably best film related on going series on this site. Much love boss 🙏
Title should've been "Losing Zemo", like Finding Nemo
Think about how hard you're trying to force this joke, and perhaps you'll realise why it wasn't used.
27:32 never noticed the Bucky stunt double with the party city wig before. I’m never gonna unsee that when I watch this now.
The Sokovia Accords could’ve posed an actual threat, but it seems that it ends up even less than a slight inconvenience.
I agree with all this except the reasoning behind why Iron Man would hate Bucky is a little shaky imo. The airport fight lead to Rhodes being paralysed, which is more Steve's fault than Bucky's. Unless you can chalk that up to Tony's emotions or ignorance of the situation. It could be an effective build up to him realising Bucky murdered his parents under mind control, however.
This may be the wrong place for this but - the airport scene in Civil War is really hard to watch for me. Firstly, the CGI on Iron Man looks... off. It looks wrong. I don't know why, but it is the case. Secondly, the airport itself is lifeless. I know they evacuated anyone but it's like playing on a really boring warhammer or dnd battlemap. Watch "Akira Kurosawa - Composing Movement" by Every Frame a Painting for more on this idea.
They were just holding back, besides Black Panther, and possibly Ant and Spider-Man, since their only objective was to slow the others down (Iron Team) or get as many members as possible to the Quinjet to hunt the inactive Winter Soldiers (Cap's Team)
@@bloodbrawler1438 did you read my comment?
Why wouldn't the evacuate it jackson.
I’ve felt this way for a while. Zemo is a cop out by the writers or the studio who didn’t want the nebulous gray area of people seeing either Steve or Tony as the bad guy.
Hydra: Hahaha! We've been spending the last 65 years infiltrating SHIELD!
Avengers: So, you've been risking your lives saving the world for the last 65 years? And that was the evil plan?
Hydra: You are mistaken about our intentions. Half the conflicts we fight we actually started! HAHAHA!
Avengers: Us too.
Hydra: Touche.
Nandi: “Joey JC Lance Chris & Justin.”
Me: “...Ready to comply.”
War Matchine doesnt say to Steve this the the United Nations, not shield, not Hydra
That book can now be used to control a very specific meter maid in Albuquerque
I'm a simple man: I get a notification for Nando V. Movies, I click it.
yes we can tell you are
Zemo, not the villain we needed, but the villain we deserved
25:01 "In for a Penny, In for a Pound" _I Understood That Reference_
I feel like in this version, if Banner has not been exonerated it's more interesting. Though offworld, it would present the same conundrum: Cap would likely side with keeping Banner free because of their personal relationship, and maybe Tony would regrettably side with the Accords to hold Bruce accountable. Makes Tony even more of an antagonist for betraying Bruce, but could be done in a way where the audience sympathizes with him
Zemo succeeded in creating so many more Avengers that they needed to split into two teams. Zemo is a hero.
Erm... you forgot to mention iron man’s motivation for supporting the new sovia accords. That’s pretty important for any adaptation of Civil War
I was always annoyed the Socovia Accords played no part in Spider-Man: Homecoming yet I never thought about how it also had no role in the first half of Avengers: Infinity War
Exactly. Rhodey flipped the bird to the general, then casually mentioned how that's going to lead to a court martial, and then that's the last we hear of it. The government doesn't go after any of them or anything.
Andrew Foose
I’d like to see how the government would actually try to enforce the SPRA in times of crisis like that. Would’ve brought more weight to Civil War
I wouldn’t be surprised if the the Socovia Accords didn’t even have any role in the upcoming Black Widow movie
Except it's why their split up in infnity war.
Kye Dysarthria
And they never even do anything with that in the movie. You never see it play any role in the movie outside of lip service. If it’s something so big that it’d tear the team apart you’d think it’d have larger significance in the ongoing narrative
@@Sjono except you don't need pay lip service to them being separated; since them.being separated is suppose to be the main consequence of the accords. I get you wanted more dosne with them, but saying they had no effect was outright lie.
I think it would also be interested if the Accords targeted Wanda for the mind control too, along with her powers. The accident in Lagos was just that - an accident - but proving that she mostly-willingly mind controlled the Hulk into his AoU rampage would look bad, and it would give Steve more reasons to not agree with them.
But I'd also say that CW could be improved if Tony also posited them as a "necessary evil" in the beginning (which arguably he kinda already does, but it should be clearer), something that is going to happen whether they like it or not. With Ross going after Banner, and with the govt trying to take his suits in IM2 and then the vice-president working with Killian in IM3, he also shouldn't have a reason to trust them. But, to make it more in line with the comics, he does trust Steve, so having Steve go rogue to protect Bucky and then the reveal about his parents would make it more of a personal betrayal for him. Especially if Steve almost killed him, kinda like Obadiah did.
More fun you can add to this version of the movie, since there's less Iron Man in your pitch, you can have Tony, Nat and Ross writing and rewriting the Accords, and through Ross Tony can learn the Bucky thing, instead of him stumbling upon it on an ice cube in Siberia.
I still think this movie would have been the perfect time to introduce inhumans. It would have shown the conflict reaching over more of the world vs just keeping it internal to the Avengers. As well as having some actual masked people with powers.
I think that Zemo is important for the film. Outside of him being the one to shatter the glass of the avengers, he's also important to the development of T'Challa. It's his development of rage and vengeance to not holding on to things anymore that allows Black Panther's big storyline beats to happen
In my personal opinion, Zemo was absolutely necessary to Civil War and it doesn't matter whether he was a villain or not. When we were watching the victims of the superhero collateral damage, we didn't really feel that much about them because we didn't really know them but Zemo was an up close analysis and result of all the recklessness of the Avengers. We saw all the pain and misery that all the civilians were going through all the actions of the Avengers and it pained us. There is the rule in film making of " Show, don't tell " and I believe that Zemo's one appearance encapsulated all the suffering that the normal person was going through and the themes of the film much better than all the rest of the Sokovia recordings, preachings, and Miriam Sharpe combined could ever hope to achieve. For the first time, we all felt the pain that the common man was going through due to these supposedly godlike privileged beings and we understood all their angst and contempt. It was quite admirable how such an insignificant man, who was the underdog, completely broke apart and defeated the Avengers more successfully than any of the other villains in the MCU before him. Civil War was about friendship, accountability, vengeance and how destructive hatred and vengeance could be for everyone and Zemo was the personification of all these themes.
in-for-a-penny in-for-a-pound steve rogers chris evans knives out NICE
I was always strictly on Cap's side in this film, one reason in particular was because of the Hydra incident in _Winter Soldier._ So, my best guess as to why they didn't mention that in _Civil War_ is that they, perhaps, figured that that argument was too compelling for Cap's side, and they wanted there to be more sympathy for Iron Man's side of the debate. The marketing was all about "Team Cap" vs. "Team Stark."
That's just my guess, though.
Why the Hydra incident?
As Nando mentioned, it's a pretty compelling example of the dangers that the Sokovia Accords could pose to world peace and saving lives. In _Winter Soldier,_ we find out that Hydra managed to infiltrate very high levels of governmental organizations like SHIELD, to the point where they almost managed to wipe out their political enemies nationwide, and it took the efforts of Captain America to stop them. If something like that were to happen again, or it it turns out that there are Hydra agents unaccounted for, the power that the Sokovia Accords grants to the U.S. government could prove to be disastrous.
@@Spar10Leonidas Hi 😅 I reached that part of the video right after posting 😶
That makes sense, of course. The thing that gets me is that, that wasn't quite the argument that cap was making _in this movie_ (it relies on you making the connection from WS). The first time I watched it, I wasn't even sure exactly why cap was against the accords. I was on Tony's side the whole time (still am 😉) because, as Nando said, the accords didn't seem like a big deal, and they didn't seem to change anything in the end. The Avengers had been hunting down the remains of Hydra when the Sokovia incident happened, and I had no reason to think Hydra might have infiltrated any other organization as deep as they did with SHIELD (It made sense to infiltrate a secret branch of an economic superpower, but there's never been any hint that they got anywhere near the UN).
Dunno, it just seemed that cap was being a little paranoid. Tony had faced political backlash before, so it made sense to me he would have a better idea of how these situations develop (sign the documents, wait for the press to calm down, then amend them). The UN didn't even have much of a way to enforce the accords if the way they had to rely on Tony to get Cap was any indication.
And then there's Bucky, who I never sensed was in danger of being executed by any authority besides T'Challa. They caught him and put him in a cell for a psychological evaluation, that only went awry because of Zemo...
Maybe it's the things they didn't show. Maybe I was looking at different places.
I just keep seeing ways that none of this had to end in blows, a broken spine and a divided team :/ This movie broke my heart
The words in your book activated an N'sync fan Manchurian candidate... I'm still on the run. Thanks.
I've watch about 20ish of your videos. The fact that you are not a marvel writer drives me absolutely mad. This is a perfect example of how people who are not "in the industry" because of prior connections or "what they worked on" is not a basis for who should be working on current media. Keep it up please , you truly have a gift for writing if not just as a hindsight observation, maybe you would be able to catch these problems in their infancy. I would love a future where you're helping write phase 5 or 6 marvel movies and tv shows ( tv shows being where I think the majority of the contwnr will be focused canon wise moving forward and I do not hate it after Wandavision). Just keep it up. You're on the pulse.
I just want to say, Captain America 3 planned as a different movie, and Zemo was the main villain,
But they took the opportunity having Civil War in Captain America's last MCU movie title which sound like the American civil war. They made this movie, and brought Zemo because it was in the original plan
The risk everything because they thought BVS would be better (and it is VERY BAD)
I think one of the major plan of having Civil War is building a Cap Vs Iron Man MOST IMPORTANT FIGHT 'cause they're always fighting in Avengers 1 & 2 but not so much physically as Civil War in the comics.
I think in a way Zemo fulfills the same role that Hydra's involvement does in Winter Soldier: it "simplifies" the conflict. Once his plan is unveiled, it's not about the two clashing ideologies anymore, it's about Tony wanting to avenge his parents' death and Cap defending his friend. Just like Hydra being behind it all "uncomplicates" Cap's internal struggle in trusting SHIELD.
I love Zemo, he's one of the best things in the movie, but I see how interesting it would be to witness the war play out without his involvement.
Not really. Having victim seek revenge on heroic murders is far from simple.
@@fightingmedialounge519 I disagree, and I'm not talking about Zemo. I'm talking about the core conflict between Cap and Tony. The film builds it on differing ideologies (Bucky is always part of what drives Cap one way, but it's also about him not trusting the accords). Then Zemo shows the recordings to Tony and that conflict turns to "You killed my mom, you gon die" and Cap has no choice but defend his friend. This "excuses" both parties involved, giving them a pass in the eyes of the audience. Both are justified in what they are doing and the conflict becomes more personal (and definitely more powerful, I'm not arguing against the story choices themselves, only how they work within the narrative that it's presented).
If i could add one scene to your one small change, starks scene where he’s introducing the BARF technology (which pretty much only serves the purpose of fleshing out his relationship with his parents before being guilt tripped) would be converted to another Stark Expo. Except this Stark Expo takes place in New York. Starks opening day speech will hammer in the point that Tony misses his parents and that this is their legacy (which will hit a little harder when it’s revealed it was Bucky who did it) and if you really want to use the barf tech, here’s your chance. But the real reason for this scene is for Iron man to have an organic reason for running into Spider-Man. Peter Parkers gonna enter something into the Stark expo, Tony’s gonna have a cool nerd moment with Peter and they’re gonna have instant on scene chemistry. Tony might make a joke about Peter building it with his dad and the awkward silence will kinda let both characters share a moment where they both know they’ve both suffered significant loss. As Tony moves on to another exhibition, Vaiola Davis will be there with something her son created and when Tony asks where her son is, she’ll drop the guilt trip hammer on his ass about his son inventing this before he went to sokovia. And then boom. That awkward Peter Parker recruitment scene won’t be as forced as it was in the original movie. And if you wanna cut that aunt may / bed room scene out completely, it still gives a great opportunity for Tony Stark to put 2 and 2 together when he sees Spider-Man jumping in on the fight in New York. Tony might notice something on Spider-Man’s suit that reminds him of Peter Parker and the Tony will piece it together after the fight. Peter still gets a chance to have a secret identify from the rest of the team
U can see it as the perfect storm
Of terribly divisive things splitting the team
This would've made Civil War better, great stuff! Just one minor suggestion to the story: I think Rhodes should've died, not been paralyzed. To have a casualty as a result of the Avengers' civil war means, even when they reassembled to fight a greater threat (Thanos) the impact of their civil war isn't wiped away, as Rhodes' absence is a constant reminder of what Tony lost, and what Cap's actions resulted in.
you have no idea how long i’ve waited for this.
What happens with black panther in this version? He is never wrong in his accusations here and has no reason to question if his aggressive actions are the correct ones or not.
This rewrite uncomplicates the movie too much. Zemo's interesting because Cap created him. Zemo's interesting because he uses Cap's weakness against him. Zemo's interesting because he anticipates that Cap is a hypocrite.
Literally the whole movie gets resolved if Cap doesn't take everything personally and refuse to communicate or talk about his issues. He is five seconds from signing the Accords until he learns Wanda is on house arrest and accuses Tony of running an internment camp. My brain literally exploded.
Wanda... a former terrorists... blew up three hundred people... and Cap can't stand that she has to wait until her actions are reviewed by someone else? Cap just literally can't abide by the possibility that someone who doesn't hang out with him is going to have an opinion on his friends and their actions.
Steve totally lost it.
And none of that really makes sense unless 1) you make the Sokovia Accords completely corrupt and just repeat Winter Soldier or 2) you turn Steve's best character traits into a liability and turn the narrative against him.
That's why Zemo is one of the best villains. Because Cap can't get out of his own way or even learn from his failures and Zemo knows it.
As someone else in another comment said, he could follow iron man and observe his fight with cap while waiting for an opening to grab bucky, only to witness how the two friends are tearing each other apart. "Do I really want to have my actions dictated by anger?"
I don't know if you can say he wasn't wrong, since bucky was mind controlled. If I push your head in a bucket and drown you, would you find reasonable to blame the bucket?
Except he would already see the two friends fighting.
Alternatively,
Instead of Zemo’s intro in Cleveland, we are introduced to a masked man in Siberia, who has discovered the Winter Soldier secret already, and takes control of Bucky there right in the first scene instead of a flashback, in fact trim all flashbacks out for timing.
Baron Zemo is then truly introduced at the UN meeting as the main advocate for the accords, as his family died in Sokovia. After the real Bucky kills T’Chaka, have Zemo manipulate T’Challa into going after Bucky instead of T’Challa’s convo with Black Widow.
When Bucky is apprehended, Zemo will already be in the facility in Berlin as he is apart of the Avengers oversight working with Everett Ross. He does the mind control thing again.
Bucky convinces Steve that a masked man has more Winter Soldiers, and they need to go to Siberia, like in the movie, and they have the airport fight.
I thought the timing was weird here, so like the fight ends and Iron Man goes to the Raft and checks in, meanwhile Cap and Bucky are flying to Siberia? So you could have masked Zemo capture them and reveal himself, only to show the footage when Iron Man shows up and rescues them as a last resort.
Black Panther and Zemo scene works better as they had a direct connection earlier on.
it seems like zemo was a big part of creating a reason to introduce t'challa
I actually liked the zemo character, regular guy with no powers did more damage to the avengers than anyone else to that point
18:24 If that's the case, why would T'Challa wait this long to go after Bucky?
i get that 15:25 is meant to be black panther (i think) but how about iron man is duped by ross and tchalla, and his technology is partially used to find bucky, under the pretense that they were going to bring bucky in for a 'fair trial'
Hey, Nando! I don't know if you take requests, but I'd love to see a video from you about what if Bucky had been given the shield instead of Sam.
I think 99% of your suggested movie changes are spot on, HOWEVER, if we drop Zemo from this movie, we lose his night club dad-dancing from F&tWS, and that’s simply UNACCEPTABLE! 🤣
I've been waiting for this moment
Civil War might not have needed him, but we did 🕺🏻🕺🏻🕺🏻
I'm pretty sure the reason that Zemo exists is because they were too afraid to make the face of their universe an actual antagonist
Ka Chow and maybe for fan service
It wouldn't surprise me if there had been some executive mandate from on high that the movie had to have an actual bad guy so as to avoid any implications of either Captain America, Iron Man, or the U.S. government being seen as the movie's "bad guy" by any of the movie's younger viewers.
Wow. I like your other 'altered' versions of movies but this one is just wow. Really wish we had gotten this version of Civil War.
Still a little sad that Wanda never has a scene where she directly confronted Tony for his role in the death of her parents. To this day, I cannot understand why she would want to stay with the team after Ultron. Helping them stop Ultron, ok. Why would she STAY? Why would she trust these people? Why would they want her around?
They've given her a sense of purpose and belonging, something she and Pietro clearly looked for with Hydra and then again with Ultron. She respects Cap, Hawkeye clearly takes her under his wing as a surrogate little sister figure (partially because he's the family guy, partially out of his deep guilt/gratitude for Pietro's sacrifice), and she has a budding romance with Vision. Tony doesn't seem like he even does much with the Avengers on a regular basis after Ultron. Plus, her hands are no longer clean herself. She has participated in terrible things that have brought death to innocents. She's no longer in a position to judge.
LOL that macgruber reference
You make it hard to watch the films without thinking of your videos and how you way sounds so much better.
I actually like how this one could play into Agents of SHIELD. Focusing more on how the law handles mind control would mesh really well with what happens in the third season, and the fourth could have more potential to play off it.