Hope you liked this one! If you want to chat with me and the rest of the guys about writing and movies in general, do join my discord server. My Discord: discord.com/invite/aJpYPQX Looking forward to seeing you there! - Henry
I love your videos. I was wondering, have you seen Bojack Horseman? If you have, you should make a video about it! If you havent you definitely should watch it. It’s my all time favorite piece of media.
So for future reference for a part 2 I would suggest looking at the animated mothe animated movie doctor strange Sorcerer supreme from 2007 2008 because it did a very good job at 1 establishing in Oregon for doctor strange it was a production shrink but also establishing the rules of magic magic never going over i really like to see somebody do a retrospective of how deep a deep and how it did a really good job love Sort of evolving a lot of characters especially Wong who in my opinion is the better wong than the MCU wong It also did a really good job fleshing Out Baron mordo who am I pinging and the MCU Character was actually flipped inside out Making him more cautious to magic rather than having him be reckless with magic And like I said it would be really awesome if you could take a peek at it and see how that movie did ithat movie did a better job at establishing magic then 2 doctor strange movies
Also the reason Wanda is Able to do things in her body That she can't do in the alternate version body is due to the dark hold because Wanda and RMCU tapped into that power that that other one didn't Wanda didn't and that's 1 thing I will give the movie as it explains that with 1 tapping into the dark hole She gained abilities and up Her power level that the other versions of her haven't done that's why when people say she's the strongest in terms of magic power whatever it gives you I have to remind them that without the dark hole she's now gone back to her pre Wanda vision power levels
I always thought gandalf used the power of burning weapons on the uruk hai at Helm's Deep, and that he could not use magic during the siege of minas tirith because he's migical power had decreased because of sauron . Am I just reading into things?
I remember watching a marvel movie way back, I think it was Civil War, with my high school buds. I distinctly remember Wanda doing something, one of my friends saying "What are her powers?!", and then another one of my friends responding "Red". I think that conversation is a perfect summary of this whole topic
Wanda powers is basically that game we played as kids where we just keep coming up with counters to each other like "I use my anti-whatever weapon that bypass your anti-everything shield"
I don't remember who said it, but I remember someone more informed than me stating "A good magic system has rules, even if they aren't explained to the audience." If a magic system can essentially do whatever the user wills it to, whenever, with basically no cost, it's not a very good magic system.
The sling ring discussion made me realize a limitation that would make a lot of sense: you have to be intimately familiar with the area the portal opens up to. We don't know what the end user experience is for opening a portal, but making it so you have to specify a point mentally in enough detail that the ring doesn't have multiple possible openings would keep portals from being opened in space, the marianas trench, a random part of a mountain you've never been to, an alien world you imagined and coincidentally is similar to an actual alien world, etc. Having to spend more mental effort deciding and visualizing would also inflate cast time and make it less OP
Also, this would give up and coming wizards the incentive to travel the world and see lots of places because then they gain new potential portal zones, and whenever a portal is opened to somewhere you bring up character-related questions of when they went there and why they chose that specific spot
This actually is the limitation posed in the original film "The more detailed the place you imagine, the quicker the portal will open" the issue is they didn't stick with it.
I think this is sort of how teleportation worked in Jumper (2008). People with the ability can only teleport to places they've been to before. E.g. Hayden Christiansen's character can effortlessly warp from the USA to Egypt, but he had to travel there first using conventional transport.
That reminds me of the teleport and gate travel spells in Ultima Online. You have to physically travel to a place and mark a rune. Then you can open portals or teleport back to that place if you kept the rune.
Or, they actually did use magic, they just weren't creative with it. Much like the battle of Hogwarts in the Harry Potter Movies. In the books you had people turning other people into animals and objects, statues and school desks being used as battle animals, teleporting, flying, and everything else aside from just shooting each other with laser spells.
The funny thing is, I think Doctor Strange 1 did a pretty good job limiting its magic and exploring it. There are really only three types of magic in that movie: energy manipulation, which every sorcerer can use and let’s them create glowing weapons and astral project; magical objects, which give sorcerers the power tied to the object but only if they know how to use it and are in possession of it; and rituals, which give characters permanent powers but are very difficult to learn and perform. These limitations combined with Strange’s inexperience make the story really engaging, evident in the Sanctum fight. Strange can make energy weapons, but he’s not great at fighting with them. He can fly and make portals, but only if he has his cloak and ring. The villains totally outclass him in strength and ability, so he has to use his wits and whatever magical stuff he can find lying around to defeat them. And it’s honestly great. But then we get to infinity war and all of a sudden he can (and can’t) do whatever the writers need at the moment and all the tension for any fight is ruined in exchange for cool visuals.
But to be fair, (I'm not sure if it's canon, but it's widely accepted) Strange's magic greatly improved during his years with dormammu. That's why you see such a big power jump between DS1 and Infinity War
I agree with the DS1 part but just to remind you that in universe there's a 2 years gap between when that movie happened and Infinity War. Plus the time he spent in the loop with Dormammu which no one knew how long it was, he had all that time to hone is abilities. And I also agree with the fact that the writers give him OP abilities sometimes and take it away when it's convenient for the plot.
Its not Infinity Wars' fault to utilize 2 years gap and make him Greatest he had ever been. That also is a major point in making IW movie such engaging and taking it to great places in storytelling. That however is fault of MoM to you know... do almost everything wrong. SEE Mauler's Video if possible. Its Fun.
Yeah, the sequel disregards so much of the first one. Look at his friend, who's name escapes me. His motives for trying to get rid of the saucerers are completely disregarded. Replaced with a throwaway line that he "went mad" completely undermining his realisation of the potentially harmful power they possess. And the setup for him being a potential antagonist in the next film. Instead they meet him in a different universe (so it's not actually *him* ) And claim that he simply went mad. Also, this gives us a glimpse into what the film *should* have been. Wanda was Never supposed to be the villain of this film. She was supposed to be a minor character who hinted that she may be on the path to becoming a villain, setting her up for a much bigger story in the future. But the writer of Dr Strange 2, Just "wanted the cooler villain" and didn't care about the effect this would have on the entire universe. In this film, she is a bigger threat than Thanos. She's not threatening half the universe or the entire universe. She's a threat to all universes. That's an Avenger level threat. That should've been in a film where everyone is called in to fight.
Also, side note, Strange completely disregards Hawkeye, like he's mocking him, but Hawkeye would have been a good ally in this film. He and Wanda fought together. They grieved together. And he has experience with going off the deep end and being pulled out by a friend. He would be a huge help in trying to reach her.
Out of the millions of possibilities Strange saw, he didn't see the one where he quickly casted a small portal around Thanos's head and closing it instantly.
Stuff like that is why I can't read comics or watch comic movies, most times even the creators of a superpower don't think about how it can be utilised. And the movie writers are the worst for it
Something else worth mentioning. They introduced both a way to limit a sorcerer's power and contain Wanda: the Magic-dampening Handcuffs. You know, the ones they introduce in the movie at the same time we meet the Illuminati, a pivotal item that affects the conflict of Strange vs Mordo... the ones that the Illuminati just forgot to bring with them to apprehend the most dangerous magic user in existence... the ones that Strange and Co. could have grabbed while in the lab and used on Wanda at basically any point after that scene... I'm honestly surprised that I haven't seen anyone else mention them at all.
Yeah that actually is a pretty good point. I guess the main issue is that getting close enough to Wanda to do so in this movie is impossible. She’d just disintegrate you before you could slap on the cuffs. It is definitely worth mentioning though.
@@Sicruett don't Captain Carter and Captain Marvel start throwing her around during their big fight? Have one distract her while the other sneaks in and slaps on the cuffs. Or better yet, have Professor X be there at the beginning of the fight to freeze her and then slap on the cuffs...
@@insertclevernamehere1186 true, but I think that was just fluff. She’s able to immediately incapacitate Black Bolt and Mr. Fantastic but decided to take her time with Carter. Still a good point. If Carter had been armed with magic dampening they could’ve stopped that version of Wanda.
Wanda dosent do magic with her hands, she's the scarlett witch, if you don't understand something that dosent mean that its wrong, how can people be so dumb while thinking themselves smart
@@abulhasan923 You are seriously calling someone else dumb with evidence like that? The cuffs don’t just target the hands, it shuts off all magical energy throughout the persons body. If that wasn’t the case then Dr. Strange would’ve just weaved some finger signs and broke free.
It made me so upset at how America just had to “believe in herself” to use her portals. Like the whole time after she said her portals open when she’s scared, I was thinking OH! SHE’S GOING TO LEARN HOW TO USE HER FEAR!!! That would have been sooo much more interesting. A character that has to regularly engage with the things that scare them and has to stay vulnerable to be powerful
It’s the same issue that makes both she hulk and captain marvel awful characters in the movies. They are “bad ass, always right, independent” characters whose only development is realizing that they just need to be themselves or that they always had the power from the beginning and they don’t need to improve at all. It’s awful writing, and is seen in nearly every female character that Disney has made or remade in the past like 10 years
“Horror has a face, and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared.”
An example of powers done right was The Incredibles. Up until the family goes to the island, the powers were all individual and limited. Then after the plane was shot down, they start multiplying their capabilities by working in teams. I could hardly contain myself, it was amazing.
@@FF-tp7qs Incredibles 2 was a competently-done sequel, and thus entirely watchable. And like other competently-done movies, I really don't remember anything about it. OK, that's wrong, I do remember being unhappy that they pushed the "rewind character development from the first movie so we can do the same things again" button that so many sequels push. I think I would have enjoyed it more if they had gone forward a few years and done a "Jack-Jack comes into his own as a contributing member" story, have him segue from an agent of chaos that frustrates everyone to a keystone member that elevates everyone else's contributions.
When I was a teenager, I was very into a series of increasingly niche table-top role playing games. A campaign using one of them, "Chivalry & Sorcery", produced the most dramatic role-playing scene I have ever experienced. In C&S, magicians specialize in an element, and are very weak at low levels. My character, a water mage, could only do a few simple and low-power spells, like creating a small amount of drinkable water, projecting a weak water jet, creating a small volume of fog, and so forth. During one session well into the campaign, my companions and I were exploring a dungeon, already battered and bruised by earlier encounters. We were on our way out when a monster powerful enough to kill us all came rushing down a hallway toward us. The fighters prepared to defend us as best they could. Then, suddenly, I had an inspiration. "Look confident! Sheath your weapons!" I told the others. They did so, because they knew they were dead if it came to a fight. Then I cast a spell that created a wall of fog filling the corridor between us and the monster. Then I looked right at the monster and did a "Come at me" hand gesture. The monster was intelligent, and instantly stopped. The fog was thin enough we could all see each other clearly, but it was there, and the monster knew it could be dangerous. And there we all were, looking calm and confident. The monster roared and did a couple of mock charges, then made a disappointed huffing sound and loped away down the corridor. We all made it out alive. And I still get a tingle remembering this 45 years later. Limitations are essential to incorporate magic into compelling drama.
that's sick as hell. At first, I was like "what..?" but then i realized.. You can turn that fog into a deadly weapon at a higher level than what you are now, but the monster can't read your stat sheet. It's not gonna run into this wall of "potentially uber-deadly weapon", especially not when they *are all confident they will win.* AND THEY SHEATHED THEIR WEAPONS!
So, in the comics, she is genuinely that powerful. She has the power to warp reality at a thought. So everything she does actually fits. The issue with the movie isn't that they "give her new powers out of the blue for plot convenience". It's the opposite, they have her NOT use her powers at multiple instances for nothing more then plot convenience. She's rushing to get the girl so she can go see her kids. But after atomizing Mr fantastic and blowing whispers mind. She... fist fights the remaining 2? And gets slightly beat up and delayed??? She chooses to slow terminator walk follow the girl and Dr strange rather then literally warping reality itself so the path they run leads to her? Like they needed to setup some bs that made it so strange had some form of protection around him and the girl so it forced scarlet witch to have to actually chase on foot.
Yeah, even before she was the Scarlet Witch, in Infinity War, she could almost hold off Thanos with all but one of the infinity stones. After reading the book, she could definitely take down Thanos on her own.
they also don't tell us what her powers are. now granted, i haven't cared about MCU stuff since Endgame - so i might be missing something - but in her debut her powers are summarized as "she's weird" and never addressed again, meaning that anything she does that doesn't fit with "move shit and mind control" feels out of place because we haven't been informed that it's part of her powerset.
@@vizthex that's because they are explained (kinda) in Wandavision, [SPOILERS AHEAD?] she discovers she's not a typical witch but a 'Scarlet Witch' a reality vending pure chaos magic user that is so rare its considered a myth. Tho even in the miniseries they kept most of the magic BS contained and explained compared to the movie
Weren’t her powers supposed to be to make the most unlikely thing happen at any point of time? Like, reality warping powers for sure, but inconsistent. Not inconsistent enough for her to switch to fist fighting, but almost never causing the exact same effect twice.
I think the absolute best case in favour of "marvel doesn't really care for magic" is how they treat the 10 rings in shang-chi. In comics they each had a very specific ability to them, but in the MCU they opted for... magical power strikes?
Yeah that's really annoying for me. Like you have all these different power sources and macguffins yet they all grant the same boring abilities, except it's totally different because the energy beams are a different color🙄
I actually didn’t mind that. The 10 Rings from the comics would have felt like a retread of the Infinity Stones, and would have given the villain way too many powers. What they did instead was a lot more intuitive, and was more about finding interesting things to do with the one power the rings had, which is the advice of this video.
@@drksideofthewal sure the villain would have many different abilities, but there's limitations (ie. the mandarin can only use one ring at a time, and some rings have recharge times after use). It's really on the onus of the writing team to do their research, and show the audience each ring's ability and how it is clearly different and outclassed by the infinite gauntlet (ex. the disintegration ring needs 20 minutes between beams that may not travel far, or last long, whereas the power stone can just be fired consecutively).
@@Maxxy9090 Trying to exposit 10 different superpowers, and their limitations, in a single 2 hour movie is ill advised. There's a reason why the power of each Infinity Stone was already established in previous films. The script is already juggling more important things like plot, and character motivation. Adding a whole unique magic system just for the villain, for the sake of comic book accuracy, is kind of a ridiculous ask no matter how skilled the writers are. Skilled writers don't add unnecessary things. Especially in a movie that's about martial arts, not alien lizard magic. Having the rings be a weapon that enhanced both Shang Chi and his father's martial arts abilities made a lot more sense for that story. How is a Shang-Chi even going to fight a guy who can control the electro-magnetic spectrum with just one of his rings?
@@drksideofthewal Well you could probably get quite a bit of rings out of the way in a flashback, or sequence and even have each ring glow in a specific color when being used, here's a couple of examples of usage while mostly staying true to what we got in shang chi: - Opening flashback: show the mandarin flying in (right middle) ruthlessly destroying his enemies with fire ring (left idx), then concussive blasts (right idx), then an ice beam (left pinky), and finish the sequence with a disintegration ray (right ring) - Show that the mandarin has been behind the scenes around the word as different appearances using the remaker (right thumb) - After Shang Chi's mother dies, show the mandarin putting his rings on, and find one of the killers, and torturing one them with the liar (left ring). Then show them sneaking in and appearing from darkness (right pinky), and throwing out some concussive blasts, and immediately disintegrating everything in a rage with Shang chi watching as the ring times out and begins it's cooldown, while the other rings stop working because multiple rings were used within a short timespan, which is something Shang Chi remembers (crazy how trauma works). - Setup some random spectator in the underground fighting ring, who is actually the mandarin disguised. Then have him blast through some heavy duty glass with the impact ring again, and throwing out an EMP with daimonic (left thumb), or even lightning (left middle) I could go on obviously, and it may seem like a lot, but the heavy scope can be mitigated by having the mandarin have favorite rings that he relies on, and make the other rings situational. I wouldn't be opposed to gating some of the rings abilities to a simple actions which would also restrict scope, so the writers don't have to explore everything in the first movie. Then there's more things to explore in a later movie. Which I believe audiences would be interested in. Also there was a mythical dragon in the movie, in a magic land with magical creatures. What's that have to do with real life martial arts? Or even the other mythical worlds in the MCU?
Wanda in the comics had plenty of limitations. The number one being that the more she up'd the ante on her powers, the more chaotic & dangerous they got. She has the ability to alter reality, which is just called magic, but it's different from what Strange uses. Though she does become a skilled sorcery user as well. Throughout most of the comics, it's a bunch of very smart people telling her to not use her powers to their fullest. She's conflicted and jaded by her abilities, like most mutants. That's what makes them good characters. She's dangerous without even trying. Heck, she even depowered millions of mutants with the utterance of a single sentence, and there were serious consequences. They just turned her into a crazed villain of the week, when she could serve such an important role within the films, beside being an edge lord girl boss with mommy issues. Wanda deserves better than that.
@@Supernova-rb5fp Well she was given access to her magical abilities by Chthon, who also created the Darhhold. The MCU really let the air out on Wanda trying to make her fit their "realistic Marvel world". "Oh no, demons in the MCU, no way!" - Flashforward a decade later, and we've got Alligator Loki & Pizzaballs... They couldn't make up their minds if she was a mutant or somekind of magical creation, just like they couldn't make up their minds on how "silly" they'll let their franchise be. I mean, do I need to mention that Wanda & Pietro were raised by a humanoid cow named Lady Bova? I like how flamboyant the films / shows have gotten in terms of world-building, but the base of this franchise is still very much rooted in the bland 2010's Nolan-ification of Fantasy & Sci-fi.
@@NextToToddliness Chthon isn't only reason why they got their powers,their gens were altered by high evolutionary's experiment on them,High evolutionary will be introduced in GOTG 3, Chthon's name was dropped in Multiverse Of Madness,i feel like they will change her origin once again in the MCU in her solo movie or in Coven Of Chaos.
@@Supernova-rb5fp That High Evolutionary stuff was all retconned into her story in Avengers & X-Men: AXIS #7 (2014), and Uncanny Avengers Vol 2 #4(2015). I prefer to go with the long-standing lore, rather than the recent reboots of Marvel characters that were altered just to fit into the MCU.
This video perfectly encapsulates so many issues I had with Dr. Strange 2. I hadn’t put any thoughts into magic “systems” but this really elucidated my thoughts about the movie. One thing that bothers me still is the dialog “it’s not sorcery, it’s magic.” The movie never delineates the two and I wish someone would explain the difference to me lol
Well in the movie the quote is actually "this isn't sorcery, its witchcraft" which I guess when said in that way it makes more sense. In Wandavision they sort of explain the concept of Runes which is what Doctor strange and Wong were referring to in the quote however in Wandavision Agatha, the spooky evil witch who shows up, never really explicitly states that Runes are a solely witchcraft based thing so I don't know. One thing I do know though is that in the MCU/wider marvel universe witchcraft is a practice/ability that your born with while sorcery is a practice that can be taught to anyone.
@@elifitchner4056 that’s the biggest failing of the MCU in recent years. REALLY important stuff in the movies are relegated to tv shows that not everyone saw. Regardless of whether your explanation of witchcraft vs. sorcery is correct, it was the movie’s job to explain that to me, the audience member. It’s a huge failing that line is explained to me years after the movie came out by a TH-cam comment.
I told my husband this movie felt like a group project where each person was trying to stand out from the others. Nothing mattered because everything was just trying to be something you'd never seen before.
Dr. Strange: And The Multiverse of madness is a textbook definition of a movie with all style and no substance. No one who sits and watches it can even give a summary of what the point or the plot of the movie was.
At the very least, the style was 5/10 and decently enjoyable. Not something you'll watch everyday but you'll come back and try one or two more times before forgetting about it.
Honestly the way they gave Wanda every power she needed for the plot with no previous instance of her being able to do these things feels a lot like that kid on the playground that makes up the everything-proof-shield when they're losing a game
ok to clarify: this is not a complaint about a female character having very strong superpowers. its a complaint about how the writers failed to properly introduce these powers to the audience, and as a consequence, the powers feel like cheap deus-ex-machinas when they happen. Suspension of disbelief can be a fragile thing. If you want to make a powerful character feel satisfying in their arch to power you have to give the audience a sense of how the powers work. You don't need to explain them in detail necessarily, but there has to be a sense of what the charater is and is not capable of. Once you have established that, you can either A) make them remarkable by showing us how they work around their limitations (the Magneto approach) or B) show us how they earned their newfound abilities (learning them from a teacher, unlocking them with a mystical object, going through an internal journey etc.) The reason it feels so cheap here is that Wanda just *manifests* whatever the plot needs her to. She's about to get detained by a superhero whose powers are linked to his voice? She can remove his mouth now. She's going up against one of the most powerful telepaths in the world? She is an even more powerful telepath now. We never see her use or acquire these abilities before they become plot relevant, so they feel cheap and unearned. She doesn't come across as a powerful character, she comes across as a character the writers wrote out of difficult situations in the laziest way possible. It's a disservice to the audience AND the character.
In my opinion, the two biggest failures of the magic in DSMoM are: 1) Wanda and Strange both have access to very interesting reality warping magic, but for the most part, they just throw balls of energy at their enemies 2) America Chavez had no reason to be a part of the story other than having her ability to travel from one universe to another which made for a very boring and uninteresting main character of the story
That's very true. Also, in my opinion, if Wanda wanted to go to another detention she could've been using the dark hold/dreamwalking to find a way to travel, rather than chasing a person.
@@hanbieryu8390 actually it was a brilliant symbolic allusion to real life. They showed that she had 2 moms, and then immediately they got abducted by a weird portal. That portal represents Disney viciously removing minority characters from things while still pretending that they support them. They basically opened a door and screamed "gay people" and then immediately slammed that door shut.
I've actually been struggling with this in my own writing. I'm fascinated by the concept of "wizards"; that is to say, people like Doctor Strange who aren't innately magical in the least, but learn a vast arsenal of spells through study and practice; spells that aren't innately theirs, but rather innate to the setting. I feel like we've seen a million and one characters who have their one, super special power that's only theirs and no one else's. For a change, I'd like to see a character who uses situational "magic tricks" that require prep time or very specific circumstances to be used effectively; abilities that aren't particularly special in the context of the setting, but become special in how each character choses to use them. The problem, naturally, is that once you start layering abilities on abilities on abilities, the potential for combined application expands exponentially. It becomes really hard to keep everything straight and avoid situations where the audience asks why they couldn't just use this or that ability in this or that situation. I feel like this problem is unavoidable for this kind of story, though. Currently, my only solution is to just Tolkien the ever-loving pants off this thing and hope I'm smarter than my audience. Long odds, to be sure.
it could be worth looking at different magic systems in table top roll playing games to see how they handle magic, as this is question ttrpgs have been working with for decades for balancing reasons. yes, layering spells can get very powerful very fast, but limitations like becoming physically exhausted or having to maintain intense concentration can be a good way to limit just how much they can do at a time. Perhaps making a mistake can have a large cost associated with it, so trying to cast something in a time of stress is a very bad idea. If magic can be learnt, the question of 'why doesn't everyone learn it' will quickly follow. So that's something to take into account (imo the 'some people are inherently magic is usually bit of a copout way of getting around this' ). There are lots of ways you can address this, everything from class systems to the cost of mistakes, or perhaps even the cost of success, not being worth it to most people. if successfully casting a spell takes a few months off your life, the general strategy becomes trying to cast as few spells as possible (and gives real incentive to do things the natural way whenever possible). Young wizards might be reckless with all the years they have to burn, old ones extremely calculating and careful.
It would be worth checking out some other books to see how they handle this. Dragons of Autumn Twilight had an energy cost to magic and also once the spell is used, it is forgotten so the wizard must study for hours even after becoming a master. The Wizard of Earthsea you could also check out
Try joining a Dungeons and Dragons campaign as a wizard, or find a minmaxer running a wizard and talk to them. If you choose to talk to a minmaxer then show them a list of spells and ask how they would use it. If anyone can break a magic system it is them.
I think another fantastic example of well-written, grounded, simple but well-fleshed out magic was in Avatar: The Last Airbender (the series, not the movie). Throughout the entirety of that show, there was nothing but magic with strict limitations, but time and time again the characters were able to come up with creative ways to beat those limits in ways that made sense in the confines of the established rules.
There was only one time in Avatar that I think those limits were just broken, and it was more of a well executed shock moment than anything, without much attention being put on it. I personally never even thought about it until it was pointed out in a video I watched. Which is during Aang's fight with Ozai, and the latter manages to create a consistent blast of fire without moving, while Aang is shielded by a ball of rock. Which isn't established anywhere else iirc.
He is saying that randomly making up powers for each scene then never using them again is dumb. And ignoring the wider implications of the powers displayed is also dumb. Soooo... by implication you want to make a magic system that is internally consistent with the character and the world. And one that is repeatable so you can do set up and pay off. So the magic can be used to solve the plot without looking dumb.
This shows that Disney is literally braindead because if they had any brains they’d be paying people like HIM to do the magic making And stop ruining everything that people put their minds and souls and hearts into
Remember when Wanda was supposed to be a travelling companion for Stephen in Dr Strange 2, with the film serving as a stepping-stone for her on her path to villainy, but Michael Waldron (screenwriter of Dr Strange 2) decided to jump-the-gun and steal the opportunity to have a film featuring a villainous Wanda for himself, regardless of whether it worked for Wanda, Stephen, Dr Strange 2, Wandavision, and the MCU as a whole? Pepperidge Farm remembers
The version of this film that I believe they were originally making before switching writers and directors, the version that all of the trailers led us to believe we were getting, would have been amazing. The consequences for Strange always tempering with reality that were set up back in 2016 would finally come to pass, Mordo would hunt him down, horrors from the multiverse would spill into earth (like Nightmare, the villain we were supposed to get), Strange and Wanda would team up to fight them, and she would slip further into villainy because of it. Instead, we got “oops, Wanda turned crazy and evil offscreen, now Dr Strange has gotta stop her by exploring all of 2 universes, one of which is literally just a spooky house.”
@@alenor210 DUDE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I IMAGINED TOO!! Nightmare would have been such a great villain to have and even brings the whole horror aspect they were going for. Add in Wanda and a few other additions (I've been thinking of adding Iron Fist, Danny rand, to the story as a individual to combat the lower beings and as a nice way to move the MCU to the streets instead of just the multiverse. Adding Rand also adds Luke as the hero for hire lol) would allow for a great story and a great pivot of her character. In the comics we have a theory that Wanda's children are part of a demons soul (i forget his name), but a great spin could be Nightmare coercing her via a similar concept and her helping in his defeat, only to find he was true to his word and her children have been given life, but scattered across the multiverse or something (bit iffy on the details as of rn). Ofc there's many ideas that come to mind but you get it lol
Fun fact, this is a reason why DC doesn't use Zatanna all that often in their media. Her magic is so undefined- essentially her powers are whatever she wants to happen can happen so long as she says it backwards- that it makes her so OP there's either no threat when she's around or there's a mass amount of "why doesn't she just...?" style plotholes.
I just really like the "magic" system in Avatar: The last Airbender. Every Class has like some limitation that just makes sense and during the show they find maaany different ways to use their powers. Examples for the Limitations are: Airbenders alls being Monks who wouldn't use their Power aggressively, Waterbenders only being able to bend Water and not create it and so on.
Agreed! When he was describing what makes a good magic system in the video, I was thinking to myself, man, ATLA really nailed all of it. They also did a great job with power creep & power scaling, whereas with Wanda in the MCU, it's just "she can do this big thing now because the story needs her to". It's not something we ever really see her work towards.
YES, and if u think further -> the Blood bending was forbidden! ... it was POSSIBLE... also the suck out water from trees (same episode) move that water benders have,,, so water benders was Powerful.. but there was a ethical thinking in the tribes whitch use of bending was teached and forbidden strictly! Metalbending as creative way for earth bending is also a cool exploration... Air benders could use their powers to control oxygen in the air ... think of it and they can create hich explosive air or Air that u cant breathe... against a fire nation... they would have never loose ... xD but Monks on the other hand would not do that. for Fire benders... fire springs from their inner self... and there its limited by ther inner balance of the soul (we can see this in the episode were Zuko is struggerling and cant make Fire anymore) the other creative uses with fire are explained with the rich industrial uses in the Fire nation. Avatar s Magic system is simple -> put 4 Elements together... ... and one hero that can controll all of them (and with that comes Power but also the problem of Choice... 1-element masters would outmaster an Avatar if not in Avatar state (an exploit to get exp thausands of years worth)) man i love that show...
@@Pok-qq9lt Watching the villain in Legend of Korra use Airbending qigainst the earthqueen was really interesting, because you would never see a monk use IT this way.
I think that the worst part of all of this is that Wandas magic is supposed to be Chaos Magic, the ability to rewrite reality at will and its supposed to be a bad and tempting/corrupting thing but they never did much to preface this to the audience.
They did say it's corrupting. But they basically just mean "it makes you evil against your will". And that's what happened. But there are no other drawbacks lol it just makes you evil. Unfortunately for some, that's just how comics work sometimes lol.
@@thefatherland7063 it’s a connected film, sure the movie should say it I agree but I’m not sry for ppl who never know what’s going on because it’s just oh so much work to watch six episodes of a show, if u rly care you’ll watch it all and if you don’t rly care that’s fine just don’t go spouting ur uninformed opinion everywhere
I feel like this whole rampage could have been prefaced by a short scene where one of the protagonists mentions that she has invoked some sort of spell that gives her the ability to enact a slew of reality warping spells but makes her incapable of doing so more than once
@@pascalsimioli6777 the same way they used it at so many other points in the movie. It's clearly not immersion breaking and would have been way less immersion breaking than the weirdness that was the inconsistent mess it turned out to be.
As far as your LOTR example: When it’s one tiny moment like that, it’s much easier to come up with head canon to justify the inconsistency. You could argue the witch king’s presence maybe had an effect on Gandalf’s magic, or maybe being that close to Mordor weakened him. But when you’re film is FULL of them (as is the case with MoM), it’s much harder to look past it.
Or that heat magic is really hard, and can only be focused on one point (which makes sense, since that's how heat works). I general, magic in LOTR is very underpowered. White Gandalf is like a God, and the most he can do is create light and challenge a possession. He fights a balrog with level 30 enchant sword, instead of a Kamehameha.
@@O1OO1O1 It's not really that underpowered. The Maiar (and those possessing their power) can literally change and re-declare natural laws. The Istari, the wizards, are much weaker than your average Maiar in order to prevent them from destroying all of Arda when fighting Sauron, but they can still do it, it just takes a lot of effort. Gandalf saying "You shall not pass!" is exactly that, he declares a law, the Blarog cannot pass the bridge, and so it doesn't. The thing is that, as you can see, it took a lot of effort and the Balrog didn't do shit about it and it was rather simplistic, so using something like that in battle would be impossible. He can also perform lesser magic, like that heat thing on the sword, or setting pine cones on fire in The Hobbit, but he usually doesn't do that as, again, you have to have the time to do it, which you don't have if an orc is trying to stab you from behind. The water in the river that washes away the Nine was also partly Gandalf's doing in the book, his and Elrond's, both being wielders of an Elven Ring of power, which, again, grants extraordinary powers, but usually not so flashy. Galadriel is another example, she used her Ring of power to keep Lothlorien as beautiful as it is. And the One Ring is insanely powerful, allowing you access to the wraith world (turning you invisible is just you walking in wraith world), allowing you to dominate others (if you are Sauron, as the Ring only obeys him, really), enhances your power etc. And can even allow you to rewrite natural laws like a Maiar, Frodo does that when he finally breaks and takes the Ring. He tells Gollum that should he touch him one more time he would fly into the fire of Mt. Doom. And he later does. And Frodo says so while holding the Ring. What makes this NOT contrived is that one, the One Ring's power is in the hand of a Hobbit who doesn' know how to use it and cannot fully do so because the Ring only listens to Sauron, and two, the Istari cannot use their full Maiar power, they are not allowed to by Eru Iluvatar and by other gods, the Valar and Maiar. The entire magic system is just way more complicated than the movies show you.
@@mn-cb1ry That’s the most likely explanation. Like I said, when it’s one or a few moments, it’s easier to forgive and come up with head canon explanations.
The zombified wanda thing was actually a concept that they were gonna use, with her crown molding with her flesh and becoming a bone like structure, you can see it in the art book for the movie
Bruh that sounds rad as hell. How come every time a shitty movie comes out you see concept art and ideas of wayyy cooler shit then whatever the movie spewed out
@@CeliMe007I'm convinced that this is why so many marvel movies coming out are so bad. I REFUSE to believe that these companies can hire such amazing writers yet create such mediocre product. Like at this point I wholeheartedly believe that a lot of this stuff is the fault of people who can't write deciding to take over entire productions. It's why kung fu panda 4 sucked so bad I'm pretty sure.
This is one of the reasons Death Note worked so well. Death note is simply a notebook in which you write someone's name and a cause for death and they die as long as you picture their face while writting the name. On paper it's a very simple weapon with strict rules on how you can use it. But then the protagonist starts basically exploiting the simple rules to squeeze just as much as he can out of it. For example if you can write someone's cause for death, what's stopping you from writting a very complicated cause that basically manipulates them into doing what you desire? The way the protagonist used the notebook made for a lot of satisfying moments when a rule you wouldn't care about suddenly gets smartly used which gives you this "Oh man that's so smart" moments.
@@homomagii It is. It is a magic which follows a strict set of rules, while being incredibly strong within these rules. It's the same thing as writing any other kind of magic in a consistent way.
Light only started doing that when L joined the case against him though and because L had successfully baited him with the live broadcast, which helped pinpoint what part of Japan he lived in. If he didn't have to try to distance himself from the deaths, Light wouldn't have to do that, unless he got bored.
very small note: i really liked the little interlude you had where you wrote very good fanficiton about bruce banner and tony stark talking about nanomachines :)
In D&D the “Gate” spell, which does almost EXACTLY what a sling ring does, is a 9th level spell, the most powerful magic in the game. This is to say that, like other 9th lvl spells such as Time Stop, Wish, etc., Gate is so powerful you can only ever cast it once a day lest you break the entire balance of the game.
And you have anime like Goblin Slayer who utilize such spells in interesting ways. A gate scroll to the bottom of the ocean? The ultimate pressure cutter that can flood out goblin nests and tear opponents beyond the party's ability to handle apart. Gate scroll to low orbit? Vacuum proceeds to clear the room of goblins while ensuring their death as they fall to their death assuming they do not suffocate first. But most people would not think like that, most would see a gate scroll as a means of escape from a bad situation.
"Once per day" my epic level 3.5e characters laugh at that, but those characters are on the sort of power level where they face off against gods and have followers themselves, so it kinda balances out
they could have had her brother be alive and distract her or even put on the cuffs and then try to talk to Wanda. it would knock her out of au body temporally
I find the main problem with Black Bolt's death isn't that Mr. Fantastic told Wanda how to defeat him, it's that the guy who had trained all of his life to never speak in any situation panics and screams.
I've thought this before as well. I just chock it up to (a) he has never had his mouth literally replaced with smooth skin and it was a distressing experience, (b) he may have thought in that moment that speaking would break the barrier that was suddenly in the way, since his voice is so powerful and honestly, who would have assumed his voice would bounce off the skin and to his brain, and (c) he really only needed to make a slight sound and he was done for. All the same, if he doesn't scream, he can't do anything anyways and it's a pretty lame exit compared to what we got.... I still basically agree with you completely.
@@bumfrog8513 I don't see enough people talk about it honestly. She doesn't lift a finger and she creates an indestructible and reflective barrier for a power she likely has never seen used before.
And did any of these work? I haven't seen the movie - I guess only last one in last fight incapacitated the villain and all others were not only not creative but also failed.
@@Trekkie46 yeah that’s about it. What really offended me was the scene where Dr. Strange fought Evil Strange and they used magic to take the musical notes from sheets of music to… create magical ninja stars? Wack.
@@TheDanteJamesShow there was actually more to that fight from a musical standpoint. CinemaWins dug into it more by referencing what songs were getting played by the notes and how one note screwed it all up as a metaphorical punch so to speak.
@@potentpotassium5776and if you remember they didn’t beat him. They came to an agreement because strange was willing to stalemate him for eternity, and the villian saw that as anethema, as he lived to devour others. It wasn’t a victory, it was a ‘I will make your defeating me hurt you too’ because that’s all he could do against such a monster.
Gandalf and the heating of the sword: It may be explained not by a magical heat, but the magical light. He may have concentrated his maiar light on them, and the sword being made of metal, just heated up. The same magic is used by Gandalf when he concentrates light to push back the Nazgul. One is short range, the second is long range.
It also works better if you're in the middle of freaking resurrecting at the time and so the gate to all that power is still open behind you to draw from.
Wanda could only work if she, being a personification of chaos, had a weakness of never using the same spell twice. Then the counter-play would be to keep repeating the same attack to exhaust her counters. They need to take her by surprise every time so she doesn't get a chance to disrupt the attack before it hits. It's like the opposite of a 9-lives type magic where the opponent needs to be killed 9 times, every time a different way, because the opponent becomes immune to the previous ways.
Still doesn't explain why she can rip off Thanos' helmet but not his head. What was the point of Thanos even wearing a helmet if his head is so much stronger?
@@wefinishthisnow3883 -- ...because the normal way to attack someone's head is by striking it with a weapon or a projectile, not by trying to tear it off, so that's what helmets are designed to protect against. There are countless instances of the MCU's writers inadequately utilizing characters' powers, but I don't think this was one of them.
One of the reasons I loved the Eragon series as a kid was that the back of the book had a little dictionary of all the magical words and how they could be combined to create a realistic spell & magic system. I’m a sucker for consistency and rules.
i weirdly enough just finished the entire series, and it matters the ENTIRE series. It literally comes down to that rule in the very final fight. It's important, and extremely well written.
My favorite part was the explanation of the language’s creation. Essentially, experienced wizards can use magic without words, and in fact that was the only way to use it for a while, but it was very erratic. If you thought the wrong thing while using magic it could have disastrous results. So, a group of very powerful wizards used the existing magic to give magical power to words, making magic much more consistent, though less powerful.
I understand the idea of Reimi trying to make Wanda more akin to a horror monster by the end of the movie. The problem is that Wanda isn't a monster, she's a character that we'll have to see again. The fact that the inconsistent magic is tied to Wanda in itself is problematic because she's a recurring character. When she returns we'll have no idea of what she even is and the answer will always be disappointing.
@Ashok Sengottuvelu Yep. Against Kang or Doctor Doom she's gonna whiff hard against them for no reason, even though the MCU so far has not established a single limitation on her skillset. As far as we know, there's zero reason she can't just be like "All Kangs in all possible timelines are now one and the one in front of me has had his body turned inside out" without even a gesture or "Doctor Doom's armor, with the man still inside, is now condensed into the size of a penny". Nothing strictly in the text saying she can't just do those things but she just won't for plot convenience.
I'm for one don't want her to return. This movie turned her into a boring character for me. And Scarlett Witch was normally one of my favourite marvel heroes, but this movie made me not want to see her ever again in the MCU. A boring, mentally insane and idiotic character that starts massacring everyone because of the lolz. One thing is the character being unstable, as she always is, and the other is making her some sort of psycopath.
What would have worked is if she was scaled back in power and has worked the whole movie to garner a specific power (Maybe she fully absorbs America's power and they have to revert it later) and in THAT instance, she is this horrifying, OP villain for a LIMITED time or at least until they are able to revert it. Her being OP off the jump could only be nerfed by her (in movie) insane lack of intelligence.
And she's been portrayed as a villain...twice now? In WandaVision and in Doctor Strange 2, but we're still supposed to believe that she's a "hero" and she'll be redeemed later? LOL heck off
To be fair, Doctor Strange is by design the opposite of Sanderson's hard rules magic. He's always pulling out new weird things, you're not really supposed to know why they aren't reused. Sometimes it ends up stupid, but he's just a window into a separate world of magic, while most characters we see, are just throwing cars at each other. Maybe it's a spell that can only be used once a month. Maybe it's a spell that you need to bribe a sentient alien being for. Maybe it's not a healing spell, but a spell that you cast in advance, to save your physical state and then rewind back to it, and it's just a safety measure you use for portals.
In "Doctor Strange: The Oath," he says something about not being able to conjure scientific instruments with magic. ...What counts as "scientific instruments?"
What would have been really cool to see in EndGame, is instead of having Mantis needing to sneak up on enemies to put them asleep, have Dr Strange, Wong, or any of the wizards open up & tiny portal & have Mantis reach in & put the enemies to sleep. She can literally just stand in 1 spot & have like 4 wizards standing around her, creating hundreds of mini-portals for her to reach in & put hundreds of enemies to sleep. THAT is the type of teamwork we should have seen more in the final battle of EndGame.
Wtf. You think wizards, including dr. Strange, dont have a better thing to do on a battlefield than to open portals? No, your idea sucks, and im glad they didnt do it
I think you could expand on your re-write and give Wanda some of her more obscene powers in the film by emphasizing the Darkhold as a focus for her chaos magic rather than her just being overpowered without explanation. Since we know the Darkhold book is a copy, we could make it so the power of the spells to escape the Mirror Dimension or to seal Black Bolt’s mouth are so strong that they literally burn away the pages of the Darkhold, making them unusable more than once and thus putting a limitation on her choices in which to pursue Dr. Strange. If anyone then asked “Well why didn’t she do ,” the assumption is that she no longer had access to that new power from her copy of the Darkhold, which would put more at stake when Wong reveals that Wundagore exists and the spells can be re-obtained there.
Definitely solves the reason why they did all this to begin with (I'm assuming) show off the skills of those involved to the maximum potential, they got a big name in horror and they what if'd every encounter without considering its context in the story, the story mattered less than those mad effects and cool battles, I mean they really were cool don't get me wrong so it almost worked just from that alone
and it could be that every time she burnt a page it corrupted her more justifying her increased frequency of outrageous feats as the movie goes along, like an addictive power drug. and at the end instead of the heroes destroying the book it could be that wanda ran out of pages and was left semi powerless and therefore defeatable.
Can we nominate this guy to take over the Marvel franchise regarding Wanda moving forward? Because that is such an elegant and logical solution to the problems in the original script.
What might have fixed it is introducing the rule that Wanda can only use a spell from that book once and then never again. I'd prefer her to have more defined spells too, but at least this would explain why she keeps using new spells and never uses them again, and keep the horror and suspense of 'what is she going to do next?'
Hmm, that might work, but the issue is you'd have to do a huge amount of exposition on what spells she's got access to, and where do you fit that info in?
I like this because then we can get scenes of wizard research, wong voiceovers talking about the spells the have seen other wizards use before. We can have the darkhold have an established number of spells (they could even be called the 7 forbidden spells or whatever. We can have some of the spells known and some unknown (but keep the number of unknowns known) we can say that each of the spells in the darkhold take the user one step closer to becoming a creature of the darkhold we can say that no wizard has used all the spells and lived we can have the turning point be when Wanda uses a spell and succeeds only to have the dark hold pull her back in and strange can use the other book to save her (unknowingly taking on the curse of the darkhold for himself.) This limitation does have a lot of legs and to me it helps not just the magic system but the movie as a whole more
I had a similar idea but the spell in the book is contained to one page. After the spell is used the page disintegrates, destroying the spell. Additionally, the user of the Darkhold should have the ability to create pages in the book with new spells, but the limitation is that it can take days to create a page of a spell.
@@TheCloserLook you could easily show this by having a scene where she uses a spell and a page of the book gets set on fire or the words fade away or something like that
But that's always been the point, that's why she's so feared, powerful and so unique, Agatha said “no need for incantation”, plus she can literally bend reality, that's the purpose of her power. Even thought I get some of your points, which are not specific to this film but rather to the MCU in general.
Something the MCU forgot is that Sling Rings aren't necessary for making portals, they just alleviate the strain in creating them. You can make a portal with sufficient power and skill, I'm surprised that neither Wong nor Strange knew that.
@@BloatedBaradidn't Tilda Swinton strand Dr Strange on a snowy mountain in the first Dr Strange movie as like, an ultimatum?? And he had to somehow get back using only his concentration?? I may be wrong, it's been a while, but I don't think he was wearing a slingring then. Lol you need to do homework to watch Marvel movies
@@twiceshy9773 Strange was wearing a sling ring when the Ancient One left him on the mountain maybe you need to do your homework lol. The Ancient One was wearing one too it's written pretty consistently for the orange portals
I think they gave her powers in the movie that she has in the comics, but the problem is that comics often have exaggerated abilities that may not translate well to movies. However, even in the comics, despite being extremely powerful, she was limited by her mental instability. In the movie, it seems that she has no limitations.
She is still limited by her mental instability girl- she is doing all of this cuz she lost her children in the end dr strange and america were still alive cuz wanda descided to give up and let her other variants be happy this movie really shows how far a mother would go for her children and the saddest part is that she knew billy and tommy for onley a few days
@@edvardvarjun5328That’s doing it because of something, not being limited by it. She gave up, which was not because of anything related to her mental state if my memory is correct, which my memory sucks so it could be.
@@edvardvarjun5328But the problem is Billy and Tommy were not real, they were just illusions created by her own mind. They never existed in the first place. In the reality where her children did exist, Wanda had no powers, she was just an ordinary American citizen in that reality.
Yeah, the comics are terribly convoluted and nonsensical in all of the ways that ACL describes, and more. What made the MCU good is that it [treated the comics like a first draft. It] knew which stuff to take from the comics, which stuff to change, and which stuff to leave behind entirely.
Wanda throwing Wong off the cliff reminds me of one of the most used examples of this kind of "why don't they just.." In almost every movie or TV-series where the hero fights someone physically much stronger than them, and they get in close, invariably, instead of grabbing and crushing the hero, they -always- throw them away. That just always annoys me.
The movie is a mess Madness is just Wanda powers lmaooo like they should made a "Terminator" movie about running between universes ! They travel once To 3 worlds and they have one travel between 20 worlds
Speaking of limitations over abilities, a very interesting example here is Magnus Chase and his sword. He has crazy powers while wielding it, but when he sheathes it, he feels all the fatigue he would feel if he had done everything himself without magic.
Same thing happens in the Eragon series. It's why later in the books the "insta-death" spells are so easy to both use and prevent. for example pinching a blood vessel in your brain.
@@illiantear Always thought it was clever. Feel bad the author got screwed over by Hollywood, but at least he got a good pay day and eventually wrote other things.
I think the scene against the tentacle monster best summarizes what you are talking about. Strange uses a wide variety of magic in that fight rather than keeping it simple and implementing his powers in creative ways
That behavior might come from knowing too much about a field and being too good at it. You can't think simple anymore, you want to use everything at your disposal. That even has found its way into martial arts philosophy. I'm not sure anymore, who said it (probably Bruce Lee) but the gist was something like returning to a student state of mind again.
The tentacle monster fight instantly pulled me out of the movie. Not only did Strange cut through a bus with his magic, he cut through a tentacle of the monster itself, proving it can be hurt by magic. Then Strange just didn't do that again through the middle of it? Massive logic flaws like that always instantly ruin a movie for me.
@al112v4 This isn't a Sam Reimi issue, it's a studio writing issue. Look at his run of Spider Man and the issues in this movie are absent. Certainly we get Goblins using a number of different gadgets, but they keep trying to use the stuff that worked. Spidey slings away or contains those disintegration bombs. So Goblin uses explosives to damage buildings, or his stabby speeder to sucker punch him. Necronomicon might fall into this issue but I never saw those movies so I can't comment. Dr Strange 2 has a horrific degree of "wide as an ocean, shallow as a puddle", and we cannot put that on Reimi. Or, at worst, Reimi has lost his skill.
Instant win against any giant monster: sling ring a portal the size of monster’s diameter, thrust it at the monster and collapse the portal midway through its body…
I love how the sling ring section is basically just like encoded praise of the Portal series. Portal is actually a really good example of the general concept of deeper, not wider. The second game especially introduces a few mechanics and considers how they work, how they interact with the portal gun, how they interact with each other, and the full range of what they can be used for.
Exactly. They basically made sling rings into a Portal Gun that doesn't need moon rocks and Cave Johnson's crazy ass to work. Give me a sling ring, and I will start juggling myself and enemies, just because Portal and Portal 2 taught me all about portal mechanics.
I think the biggest issue with both doctor strange and wanda is their lack of any defined powers. They have no definite strengths and weaknesses. They just pull whatever magical ability is convenient for the plot out of their asses. Wanda can fly and do red glowy stuff and Dr Strange can do orange glowy stuff. Thats as deep as it gets. (I guess Dr Strange had time control powers in the first movie, but he doesnt have the time stone anymore in the second)
Probably why Dr. Strange in what if worked well he just went about summoning things, manipulating time and making barriers. The reality altering Dr. Strange and the ancient one was pretty good as well.
This is a problem with most movies you'd consider 'super'. They think that just because super powers don't really exist we can't speculate on how to use super powers. I'm glad you used that Sanderson clip in the beginning because it shows that yes, even though the powers don't really exist there are still rules. This is like playing with your little cousin and he says "I win because I win"
I disagree. I think Wanda is well set up by the film as being unstoppable and unstable, hence the cruel and ironic ways she deals with the Illuminati. Therefore, the only way to stop her is not to attack her, but to make her come to her senses, which is ultimately what happens.
I really like how Agents of SHIELD handled the darkhold magic. A guy gets powers and thinks he is creating new material like coal and water which makes him very powerful. However it turns out he was not creating new matter and was stealing it from a different dimension causing earthquakes and damage to things around him. It also corrupted him and made him evil. It was much better written than this movie.
Agents of Shield generally handles magic (inhuman powers) quite well, many powers have their own weakness (you feel the pain inflicted on your clones, losing your sight, unable to choose when you transform etc), even the strongest inhuman, Quake the Destroyer, breaks her arms if she uses her powers too aggressively.
Team that worked with AoS is pretty good in writing mostly. They handle systems and fantastic concepts pretty well. That's why AoS were able to have a lot of different sci-fi concepts in it and still stay engaging.
agents of shield was a great show. and they really did the dark hold justice as a monkeys paw wish. you can learn anything and accomplish anything if you read it, but you will always without fail go crazy and turn evil, even if you aren't even living but an Artificial Intelligence. even turning the AI evil really drives home the fact that its some eldritch horror completely beyond human understanding
@@TheBeastInBlack Hm there was time travel, then LMD-s (advanced androids) body-swapping for real humans and taking over, then there was season where they ended in PC simulation (basicly living alternate reality inside) ... oh they basicly made dying man into cyborg warrior, also created fully functional self-aware AI that developed human feelings and was given LMD body. And there was several types of aliens in mix during few seasons. They also lived on spaceship for time and traveled th. universe and more. So plenty of scifi concepts 😜 But most of those started after 2nd season i think. 1st 2 seasons were mostly spycraft and dancing around (learning) about superpowers - but very little act. powers at that point.
I remember watching this tv show called Wakfu, in which the main character had the ability to make portals a lot like the sling ring. In that show, he started off as using his portals from simple travel tools, before eventually learning to use them offensively, launching himself, friends, enemies, etc. I always thought it was really cool whenever he discovered something new that he could do with his portals, and I think a kind of sling ring training montage could have fit well in the first Dr Strange movie, where Stephen and the viewers learn of the vast capabilities of the sling ring, and establish its insane powers for the future.
Nah gee, can't have that. They need to keep things ambiguous not because of suspense but because they don't want to invest time into the logical consistency of the media so they can freaking insert what they need at anytime
PLEASE you are not alone in this bitter feeling towards Tony's nanotech suit !!! I'm so mad they picked another thing to CGI instead of keeping the bulky feeling of the mechanical suits. We had a whole arc of Ironman's first movie where he creates the first Mark, and not a single scene on him studying nanotechnology ?? Where's the struggle ? The passionate scientific mind working tirelessly on it because He Just Wants To Get It Right ? Pepper coming down the lab to ask him to sleep ? We can't even share the joy of him finally figuring it out !! They did the same thing with time travel, the study felt rushed and anticlimatic. To me this is clearly Marvel's obsession with SFX and laziness in making new props. His nanotech suit didn't feel right because it was rushed special effects and because we didn't have to work for it. It's like kids playing around and saying "See you can't destroy my armor because it's made of that cool thing so it heals itself and you lose !". They just wanted a quick escape out of trying to choreograph around Tony scratching the suit and losing parts in space because it saves in the costume department. I miss the tension of having to call Marks and the few moments before they get to him. The scene where his mansion gets attacked and we have a slow motion of him sending the suit to Pepper was simply priceless, and the one where he's attached and tries to call it from Harvey's garage too, hilarious comedic timing. Marvel died with Tony Stark but they were already killing Ironman.
I liked how every magic usage wasn't just a rebranding of telekinesis. For some reason Hollywood really thinks magic = telekinesis. Also the big bad being beaten in a way that wasn't just hit them harder was good. Though I think Doctor Strange beating Dormammu was way better. But ultimately Doctor Strange seemed significantly cooler in all of his MCU crossover than in his own movie.
i like the powers of the scarlet witch to be those of a horror character, like how the mask's power are that of a cartoon character. although i dont like the film trying to make wanda a sympathetic character by having her be motivated by "her boys", and i dont feel it suits this sort of power, she should have been way more of a chaotic evil charater (but they cant because of all the avengers films were she's a good guy)
The talk of how interesting nerfed powers are, greatly reminds me of one of my favorite fics, where the main character has a seemingly useless power - minor banishment. He can make things that are less then 10g vanish without a trace, but no more than that at once, and about 1kg of matter overall before he dangerously exhausts himself. Genuinely my favorite part of this power is how throughout the story he becomes more and more creative with it, what objects he can vanish and how; and at some point he discovers that his power has devastating possibilities - he can vanish actual bits of someone’s brain away, or their heart. This creates a really cool narrative conflict, where, on one hand he has a “useless” power in a world of superpowers, and on the other hand this power along with his mind is enough to do permanent damage or kill people. It is one of my all-time favorite fics, so I wholeheartedly agree that the most interesting part about a magic system is how it’s used, not what kind of “cool magic” it has.
That's still incredibly powerful though, being able to just delete things and not even have to be able to see them, like a brain?!? Sure strategically removing important parts of a body or machine would be interestimg but if you can just Insta kill like that its back to boring isn't it?
@@parzavaal5335 most superpowers could be construed as instakill in one way or another. also "...a 'useless' power in a world of superpowers" means they could easily come up against a deadpool/wolverine regenerator that does render them useless. It would be interesting if the 1kg is a total max limit rather than a cooldown
To answer the gandalf thing and the heating of the sword. Gandalf has a personal rule that he follows where he only uses the power level of his enemies. Gandalf is essentially a god in LOTR being a malar he is the equivalent of an angel and is extremely powerful, so powerful that no one except for maybe sauron and few others can even stand the chance of hurting him, but when the wizards were sent to middle earth they were sent to advice the rulers as representatives of the undying lands and the essential gods of middle earth. They were not permitted to get involved directly and could only influence the world around them, if they broke that rule then they were essentially banished from the undying lands forever. Gandalf has a morale obligation to stick with that rules and never uses magic to fight unless he has a cause to do so, and only to match the level of his enemies, example he cast lighting blast at durins bane and can cast very powerful spells, he could have just blasted the orcs and killed them, but then it would have been him going against his morale code and so he doesn't. So he simply makes the sword hot to make him drop it, he doesn't intend to use it again as he is actively fighting against the enemy and it would be unfair to use it against a whole bunch of orcs. In short Gandalf has too much honor and an obligation that he just doesn't want to break.
@@gaopinghu7332 Yeah but that's the problem most whatever-to-movie adaptations have: You can't go into great detail about everything there is to explain, as it'll consume runtime. For this case especially, why would go in such a long explanation as to "why?" for a one-off scene when most people will forget about it, and the rest will just simply dismiss it entirely?
its more a "balance of the world" thing,like how in most stories involving powerfull gods,the reason the gods dont intervene directly is because their power is so unfathomable it would devastate the lands and create unnecessary destruction,so they send messagers,like gandalf,and he isnt allowed to go full rambo on his mission for the same reason@@Ojas97
On the whole nanotech point, there's a trope called Reed Richards is Useless, which is specifically for this kind of thing. In comics, people invent the biggest, craziest, most society-transforming technologies, or create sufficiently analyzed magic that anyone can wield, and they never, ever get used for anything other than fighting supervillains (which is, admittedly, important) and doesn't proliferate to the wider world at all. It also expands to other things, such as the general technology level just sticking to "current year", with maybe a few small sci-fi gadgets here and there, because it was just easier to maintain that than trying to keep continuity. This kind of stuff isn't new to Marvel movies; it's a superhero comic original sin.
The villian really should have been an alternate Strange using the Darkhold. Wanda should have been a red (Ha) harring. Like America shows up being chased by a monster and accidentally drags our Strange with her as she flees via Star portal. Explains she's a lost multiverse traveller trying to return home. We get the same explanation of knowing another version of Strange that was killed by the monster chasing her. Strange and America travel through some crazy universes in quick succession. Dino world, fascist Hydra world where helicarriers try to kill them, animated world, etc. Ending in illuminate world were their taken to see "Earth's Mightiest Heros". But it's a trap and the illuminate try to imprisson them due to having experience with multiverse invasions (Easter egg for Kang/multiversal war) Strange and America are 'rescued' by alternate Wanda. She tells them that *her* sons have been kidnapped by a monster from another universe sent by another Strange. Evil Strange is trying to use the Darkhold to escape his collapsing universe. It's explained that all the holder's of the Darkhold throughout the multiverse can communicate with each other and Evil Strange has convinced OUR Wanda to abduct alternative versions of Billy and Tommy; this will cause an incursion allowing Evil Strange to escspe to our universe but she doesn't know that. All this is is because OUR strange caused fractures in the multiverse in No Way Home that weakened the walls between universes. Ultimately Wanda needs to send the boys back where they belong and Evil Strange is killed by our Wanda in a self sacrifice move to destroy the Darkhold.
I just had a thought. Marvel needs a magic director. Someone to class and organize all "magic" in the scenes and help create AMAZING fights and scenes. I think it would make a HUGE difference...
Probably a couple of script supervisors can fit in that role. Also make them point out the plot holes. (I swear that job was a thing, but not anymore I guess?) Whatever they get paid, it won't be enough...
Honestly, they should just take the risk of a leak and do screenings for focus groups of average people. Then simply ask “did you like it? What did you like and not like? What confused you?”
Honestly, they need a director for magic, one for consistency, one for not relying on conveniences, one to avoid their pathetic recurring plot holes, also one just to keep Taika Waititi in check when they hire him... Probably forgetting a few but yeah, I feel you, it really seems like they could do so much better without going to great lengths. Because by this point it feels like noone is even reviewing scripts, scenes, final results etc anymore. Just a director with a blank check.
The idea of keeping rules of magic in stories consistent and out-of-box thinking for situations such as magneto being in jail is one of my favorite things to do while writing. Just asking myself the question: "Keeping these rules in mind, how can i get this to happen...?" is just so fun to do- it's my favorite way of getting into the minds of my characters because they have to put said rules in their mind as well to get out of bad situations. exploiting the rules that are pre-established really just gets you in that "OHHH CRAPPPP- WAIT- THAT MAKES SENSE!" mindset- i prefer it over "Oh they just have this power because the writers said so" because its just more fun. Great video as always, my guy!
Really love when character learn and evolve their power and use it in unique way. Seem way more creative than giving them new power to solve the problem. To think out-of-box there much first be a box, or else it just random bullshit.
@@kien9350 Exactly!!!!! I hate when characters with abilities have no rules or proper limitations to how powerful their abilities are. Exploring those limitations and watching the character learn to think outside of the box or evolve how they use their power is far more interesting than the generic power scaling or limitless new abilities being thrown in.
I love the video. I only have one thing I disagree with. Thors hammer has absolutely nothing to do with gravity. There is not an infinite mass that counts on gravity to be heavy. If this was the case, Capitan American would never have been able to life it. The hammer isn't heavy and that's the trick. It's an enchantment by magic. Only those the hammer itself deems worthy of its powers can lift and use the hammer. The enchantment is the ensure if Thor ever died, the powers of Thor can still be used by another until his resurrection.
I agree. If it was mass and you turned off gravity, the hammer would not have weight… but it would still have inertia. So no-one would be able to move it. Also, if the hammer had infinite mass, the entire universe would be a black hole. :-)
I couldn't really put my finger on why I disliked wanda so much in this movie but you pretty much explained in very well. In addition I much prefer your reimagining of the plot. Definitely seemed more cohesive and far less bogged down.
I think this video did a massive disservice to the Scarlet Witch in the movie. She stopped being Wanda Maximoff and became the Scarlet Witch by using the Darkhold. The movie explained that the Illuminati were losing to an infinity gauntlet wielding Thanos even though they had the Fantastic Four and mutants to help. It explained that there Dr. Strange used the Darkhold and singlehandedly turned the tide against their Thanos. Wanda having read the Darkhold and because of her special connection to it gave her a connection to her reality warping powers and made her unstoppable. The video also repeatedly compared non-magicusing characters to Dr. Strange as if he didn't have mystic protections up at all times and made him a much harder target than the others.
okay, I've been thinking about this the whole video, and I gotta say it: Bending in Avatar The Last Airbender is such a great magic system. There are four bending disciplines, each of which revolves around a central ability or two. Airbenders can move air, creating wind. Firebenders can generate and manipulate fire. Earthbenders can control earth such as rocks and soil. Waterbenders can move water, as well as shift it between solid and liquid. They do so much with each of these abilities. Most of the time, when new bending techniques are introduced, they're just applications of the core concept of that discipline. The only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head that appear in the original show are lightning from firebending, seismic sense from earthbending, and healing from waterbending. Even these have limitations, though: Lightning is very volatile, and can't actually be fully controlled, only "guided." Seismic sense, which allows the user to precisely sense vibrations, isn't as effective on surfaces that aren't as solid, like sand. Healing only seems to be able to heal things that the body could naturally heal unless you have magic spirit oasis water, which has special properties. I wholeheartedly agree that limitations can fuel creativity for the magic system's users, and the show does this so dang often. Firebenders can part fire to block it. Earthbenders can whip up a dust cloud. Waterbenders can freeze people once they grab them with water. Airbenders can use gliders to fly. I'm legally required to mention bloodbending and metalbending, which also make sense. I don't know what to end this comment on. Uhh... the show is really great. It excels in worldbuilding in general, as well as characterbuilding. There are dud episodes, for sure, but that’s like two of them. And it's also one of the shows that gets better as it goes on. Go watch it. If you've already watched it, watch it again.
When you said Bending in Avatar The Last Airbender i thought you were gonna say it was bad and i was bouta write the longest reply ever dissing you abt how wrong you are lol
This system had quite big limitations but it also enabled a lot of new things with enough creativity. Toph pretty much kickstarted a new sub category of earth bending, by bending metals. There was also blood bending, which was created due to desperate lack of resources, creator of it wasn't able to use water bending in large amounts due to fear of being found, as it took place in lands of fire benders. That's also reason why we don't see it anywhere else used, because it's small scale phenomena. Controlling plants via water bending is another example, it was created in place where there were right conditions to do it. Every of this example is introduced in natural way, makes sense inside of magic system and doesn't feel like creating something new on spot, only to never use it again. BTW I really liked episode with blood bending, even if it wasn't used later much, it had good explanation on why and episode itself was had very good character development.
The Wheel of Time uses the concept of teleportation portals so so well in the later books. There's even a character whose magic is too weak for him to do anything beyond make portals, yet he is one of the most useful in combat due to how well he uses them.
Yes, I loved how well the magic was setup in the world with all the knowledge that had been forgotten and is slowly re-introduced as powerful weaves are discovered or remembered and Talents are re-discovered. It's a shame we won't get a good adaptation. Rand's Death Gates also mirror what was mentioned in the video about the sweeping portals to eliminate enemies. It took me years to read but I have considered reading it again because it is just such an incredible story.
42:00 Epithet Erased: Literally infinite possibilities for powers and magic, all limited by the fact a person must use a single word. It's super fun coming up with powers this way because it could be anything yet is also restrictive (even in a setting that endorses nonsense)
A spoiled kid who gets a thousand toys for their birthday and plays with them by chaotically smashing them to bits against each other, only it somehow generates literal billions of dollars 🙄
@@menacingjefferson8304 Its the ongoing theory that Disney is trying to replace the old favorite characters with a newer, more diverse, younger, easier to control, and cheaper cast. The newer cast however won't bring in new people so they have to be made to look really good in comparison to the older cast to generate hype.
That rewrite of the MoM magic system at the end instantly made it so much more exciting! Especially the ending with zombie Strange being immune to the Darkhold's magic
In a way this also applies to how the mcu initially handled Spider-Man, while it was cool to see all the gadgets from stark we didn’t get a display of peters creativity and wit that we love. The swinging from crane to crane or outsmarting/reasoning with a villain. I rly hope with Pete being put at his lowest we see more of this and get the satisfaction of seeing the power of creative solution solving :]
the problem with the Spiderman movies was that he never got his origin story. This was rectified in No Way Home where it is basically revealed that these first 3 movies were his origin story. The first movie had him struggling to meet Tony's expectations, the second had him struggling to fill Tony's shoes after his death, and the third finally had Uncle Ben dying with Peter finally understanding his place in the world. The whole with great power comes great responsibility speech.
That would have been great. It struck me as so strange that they gave him the strength to lift all of that rubble and mostly hold together the ship in the first movie. He's already got web slingers, Stark's gadgets, and precognition. Captain America-level strength would be fine, but not Herculean strength.
What do you mean? We actually see plenty of Peter using his wit and intelligence throughout the trilogy. In Homecoming, he actually used Tony's tech creatively such as using the ricochet web to latch on the elevator or other stuff such as split web to grab two goons and flip them over. It's gotten so much that when he lost them all, he thought he couldn't do anything until he realise he was more than without it. In Far From Home, that's LITERALLY even more apparent at the final battle. He used the taser webs to shut down the drones but that was merely about it, everything else was about his typical webs. Using them to make a huge net to destroy multiple robots, make an elaborate set up to grab multiple of them to slam them to the ground and even making a makeshift bomb to destroy them. Hell, he defeated Mysterio using his own spider sense. Really, MCU Spider-Man really was the Spider-Man I thought handled his creativeness better than the past 2 live action Spider-Men.
Your discussion about "big ideas being introduced and never being explored again" was most strongly felt w/ Iron Man 3 for me. He "quits" being Iron Man only to show up flying in Avengers 2, and by Avengers 2, you can already feel them struggling w what to do with the "Iron Legion" who are too op for other stories, and who never show up again
How I saw the Wanda killing professor x scene was not Wanda going into his mind and dominating him, but him going into Wanda’s mind and not realizing how powerful her grip on other Wanda was.
Yes, but Prof. X went into the other Wanda's mind, the one being suppressed by "dreamwalking". For Evil Wanda to break into her other self's mind, and kill Prof. X inside it... That kind of implies, that she can just break into others' minds willy-nilly.
@@EvanOfTheDarkness That was the whole point of the Darkhold story line, that users can dream walk (I forget if that's what they called it) into the mind of another universe version of themself. So that was the power of the Darkhold and yes Wanda as well. But we see Doctor Strange do the same thing later into the dead body of himself.
Man, "why don't they just" segment was exactly how I felt throughout the entire movie. Strange is considered one of the most powerful mages in the universe, and he was just useless through the entirety of it. They managed to "defeat" Wanda with fucking "feelings" and she just killed herself instead of Strange/America killing her by hand by falling down with the building (which she definitely could survive).
She did survive it lmao. She just destroyed the darkhold and the place of power, do you honestly thing the most powerful mage in the entire MCU is just gonna die to rocks?
@@druidboy25 same thing with Monica Rambeau, how did dropping a statue on her kill her? Isn't she also supposed to be one of the one of the most powerful beings in the universe?
This is the way I would have felt too had I never consumed any of the relevant source material and only watched this movie in a vacuum. Wanda was defeated by changing her mind about what she wanted because that's how every story involving the Darkhold ends. The reader of the Darkhold, having been given what she thought she wanted, is horrified by the reality of it and rejects it. In rejecting it, the Darkhold loses the ability to manipulate the reader. This is what happens in Agents of Shield as well. Strange is useless against Wanda because Wanda has the Darkhold. And the Darkhold will give her information about whatever magic she needs in order to pursue her children because pursuing her children creates a bridge between realities, which is what the Darkhold needs.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp someone pointed out to me that actually looking at the fight Wanda is siphoning her power throughout to make Captain Marvel vulnerable
Regarding your comments about Wakanda providing their tech & Tony getting Nanotech, it would have been very easy to address both in the same sentence. The Black Panther suit hides very similarly when not in use, so Tony could have said something like "Wakandan trade initiative, I showed them how to make Arc Reactors, they showed me how to make Nanotech."
The point you made about wanda being able to warp reality permanently without making a move and for example paralysing a character in that way is actually really interesting, because if I remember correctly, in the comics wanda is among the only characters who were able to make Xavier walk again
Also if you didn’t know, black bolt freaking out is also highly contentious because you’d think someone that powerful would have slightly more self control, and he should.
He looks like the kinda character who had to heavily train himself to NOT speak, NOT scream, NOT freakout. Nerves of vibranium. Else, something horrible happens. And behold, something terrible happened!
Exactly so. Even if he did become scared, he would have gone through life long training to not speak or yell in distress. Imagine if black bolt got spooked by something while in a city, or if he yelled in pain after getting hit by an enemy.
@@Kryto_Gaming fr, and people defend this saying it’s an alternate universe, but what kinda defense is that? They are still themselves, and this is still horrible writing
@christophermoore6110 Yeah, the issue is that even in an alternate universe, things should make sense within that universe. In no universe does Black Bolt rise to a position of power as a well respected hero and not have the ability to control himself. Ofc you can imagine insane outliers, like maybe Black Bolt never learns to control his voice but he uses a machine to suppress his voice etc, but the same concept applies.
I think another cool way to explain her powers would be to say each version of Wanda has different abilities and therefore they could have have the shudder effect of not knowing what's coming next without shooting themselves in the foot everytime she forgets to use said broken ability. So darkhold wanda has energy bolts, can fly, and with the darkhold body hop. Illuminati dimension wanda can augment bodies but only if she touches them, and then can also teleport. ETC ETC this carries on and gives the heros an actual chance at beating wanda while still giving her Voorhees vibes of being nearly unstoppable.
Sounds like it would still end up with the problem of her getting every power for the perfect moment. That just doesn't work for a story. You can't have ever changing powers for the villain and make a compelling finale, because it will never feel like the heroes actually succeded and more like they just got lucky.
@@Lukashoffmann94 no the problem is that she you couldn't tell what power she DIDNT have. If the movie established that she had 2 powers that differ depending on the body then they would have figure those powers out and then combat her in different ways, which is oerfect for strange who has a big bag of tricks. That's compelling in that it doesnt feel like she just convienently forgets what powers she has while still giving her surprise factor.
@@bright_and_breezy-n2e Maybe it could work, but not in a single movie. You would need 2-3 movies to properly introduce the power sets, let the heroes figure out the trick and then come up with a plan and execute it. And I still don't like it. Having a compelling reason to force her into a power set, that the heroes can beat, is hard, when her other sets are supposed to win against them.
@@Lukashoffmann94 No you don't, the whole reason for the idea is to give Wanda that surprise factor. Just add in a throw away line from strange after they meet the 2nd Wanda that goes "she teleports?! 😮 She must have a different ability in each universe!" Then boom established, it also could be America who says ut whole she's explaining the multiverse like "Some people even have different powers". Also you seem to be stuck on the idea that she has whatever power is convenient, but I never said each Wanda has to have a convenient power, just a different one. I don't know what's not compelling about this idea, it solves the problem of Wanda being a walking plot hole in so many situations.
That rant at the ten minute mark actually captures the wide problem of how science is used in the series as well. Not just the nanotech suit, MCU has technologies so ludicrously advanced in certain aspects, that the world should look extraordinarily different than it's shown to be. But they don't get that deep into the ramifications, its mostly used at surface level as per the individual story beat needs.
Best way to Handle the Sling Ring Problem would be to explain it in Doctor Strange 1 Training Montage that it's a highly complicated spell inscribed to the ring. This in turn makes it easy to perform but the designers of the ring had to put many restrictions on the spell as unchangeable parameters that makes it's use very specific but also miniaturizing the size of the tool (The Rings). The sorcerer supreme being who he is (most experienced, knowledgeable/powerful sorcerer on earth) makes it manageable for them to use the spell and modifying the parameters on the go instead of the ring in battle but use the ring in daily life because it does require a non insignificant amount of concentration. Hence TL;DR The ring opens a portal directly in front of the user and hold it there in upright orientation nothing more. The spell itself opens a portal and the caster can do anything they want with it.
I like the idea of the rings allowing for easy access to the spell, but with limitations. It gives this implication that a much better sorcerer can do much more than just teleports, and who knows, maybe we'll see some of that.
Having her control all things living (plant and fungi included) is actually really smart since the climax is set in an arctic desert. That makes the final showdown feel like a trap to bring down a more powerful foe, instead of exotic window dressing.
You've finally explained that feeling after watching a film that makes you immediately start googling "Why didn't X just do Y?" I love reading about that stuff if there's a good reason for them doing something the way they did, seeing all the little nuances you missed that make re-watching a film an absolute joy. On the other hand, it takes all the joy out of the film when the only good answer to "Why didn't X do Y" is "Because the film wouldn't happen otherwise."
yh something always feels off when in one scene she's a god and in the other she's running with a limp towards a very sprint-like speed strange I mean the video really connected the dots for me but like damn altho unrelated, and not to the extent of wanda's deus ex machina bullshit, I remember going "why are they fighting with music notes again, just for the final epic scene" it just doesn't make sense
@@ghetoknight7801 Yeah, it seems like a lot of MCU Phase 4 suffers with this level of shoddy writing. I just hope they can bring it back in Phase 5. Like She-Hulk complaining to Hulk that he was "mansplaining" to her about what it's like to be the Hulk. You know, the guy with the most experience of being the Hulk. Not only that, but then she starts "mansplaining" to _him_ about what it's like to be the Hulk. Ermm... Wut?
Magneto is an interesting example when taken in all media in which he appears as some runs of the comic expand his power to encompass essentially everything related to magnetism including conduction (so he could manipulate lightning to an extent) and cause strokes. It must have taken every bit of the writers' restraint to avoid giving him the power of the semantic concept of Magnetism in the same way that AquaMan had power over all sea creatures and the semantic concept of fish (including Silver Fish) during the 00s. One could just imagine playboy Magneto channeling the powers of Animal Magnetism. It should come as no surprise that he receives the most power demotions of any of Marvel's mutants just to keep things interesting regardless of whose side he is on at the moment.
Another benefit of your version is that we get a tidy explanation for why Wanda gives up in the end - her kids are terrified at the sight of her rotting body and run from her. She realizes they see her as a monster, then she realizes what she has become.
How is that another benefit, it’s already what happens in the movie: they get terrified of her and she realises they don’t see her as their mother and she realises what she has become
@@snowfloofcathug it's the same, but it makes the reason why they're scared of her better because it ties in with the cost of the magic set up in the beginning--that her body is rotting because she's going to far with her use of the magic did you not pick up on this when you watched the video, if you did at all??
Something I hoped with the movie was how the different magic systems would be incorporated. Think about it, they've established before MoM that chaos magic, shape magic and witch spells all have different uses and strengths, but it all summed up to different coloured lights being on the screen
My biggest problem with Dr. Strange 2 is that the whole movie seems to forget that you have to earn the audience's suspension of disbelief. Sure, the magic system is a big part of it, but a poorly-conceived magic system alone can be worked around. Problem is, the movie seems to rely on suspension of disbelief to get across its message and/or set stuff up for whatever other Marvel thing will inevitably come next (i.e. America Johnson just seems to exist so she can be quickly shoved into The Marvels) that every other creative aspect of it shatters at the slightest impact. The action? Littered with discrepancies and ass-pulls. The plot? Contrived, frustrating, and to top it off it feels like it has little to nothing to do with previous related works (like Dr. Strange 1 and WandaVision). The characters? The new ones are nothing fillers, and the old ones are either at best their worst/dumbest selves or at worst so out of character they might as well be body-snatchers (looking at Wanda here, she got butchered). In other movies, most of those would be nitpicks or flaws that can be pushed through, but there's just too many in Dr. Strange 2. So little works creatively in the movie that even less critical watchers like myself can't help but notice the flaws, especially if Marvel Fatigue has set in, making the visuals and acting less effective distractions. It's like going to Disney World only to realize all of the rides, restaurants, hotels and transit systems have gone to shit: Sure, the branding is on point, but that doesn't matter when nothing works and the staff keeps pretending everything isn't broken and miserable.
The explanation for Gandalf not using more magic is found in his task. As a wizard, he, like Saruman (even tho he later got corrupted by the ring), was send by the gods to guide the people of the west against Sauron, but not to fight their fight for them. Gandalf's task was to guide the people of middle earth against Sauron, but not to destroy Sauron himself. So Gandalf only uses magic when it is necessary, and normally not to greatly alter the fate of middle earth (Saruman and the Balrog being obvious exceptions)
@Erich Degurechaff You know the LOTR movies show a VERY small fraction of Middle-Earths lore, Sauron isn't even the big bad of the universe, but a general of the big bad guy named Melkor/Morgoth. Also the LOTR movies were based of course on the very thick book named Lord of the Rings, so they left quite alot of stuff even from that book and there's so much more to Middle-Earth than that book.
Strange in his cameo in Ragnarok and showing in Infinity war had me hyped. He went from underwhelming in his first film to a confident and capable sorcerer and theoretically he was still learning and growing more powerful. Then Dr.Strange 2 happened and he was beyond nerfed. Wanda didn't feel menacing because the was OP, she was just the only person who didn't get nerfed to oblivion. Strange from IW still feels like he'd have a chance of taking her.
@@edvardvarjun5328 I disagree, he showed almost no equivalent feats in the film even when Wanda wasn't there. They just clearly go lazy with the magic and while I agree their intent was to make Wanda seem stronger they made the classic mistake of depowering the hero to make the villain look strong which just makes everyone look silly.
@@kronos1794 dr strange knows he coulden't do anything to hurt the scarlet witch he probs read somewhere in a book that the scarlet witch is undefestable so he didn't even try the magic was way more creative in this movie
@@edvardvarjun5328 Writers should have shown the audience the contents of that book or that what he did to Thanos in IW is not working for Scarlet Witch, instead of speculating and theory bs that the fans made as an excuse to justify their idolatry. Where is the powerful and creative Dr. Strange that they showed in Ragnarok and IW?
For Gandalf's "Heat Metal" spell, we only saw him do it to one sword, meaning there's no reason to believe he could do it to multiple weapons (much less all the weapons of an entire army) at once. Also, it took several seconds to make Aragorn drop it, meaning the orc that was mid-swing by the time he noticed it would have still landed the hit if he tried to use that spell, even if he started the moment he noticed that specific orc.
Alternatively, it only heats metal that's in a general area, a non-metal handle would have rendered the spell far too ineffective to be possible mid-battle
another reason why Grandlf might not be using that spell on the orc just power through the heat and get one last swig first before dropping it. Grandlf knows this that is why he not using it on the orc. but humans will drop that hot item once it reaches a certain temperature. and lastly if he wants to reach a high temperature fast he must concentrate on just only one a lot of them will just take too much time to heat up.
Yeah using heat metal on multiple targets takes a higher level spell slot for each additional target meaning that in order to hit an entire army with it, you would need so much power that you could just kill everything anyway
slight issue that ends up being another cool thing about the slingring: you said that when cutting with the portals, wanda would bleed to death, but in the clip that shows cutting with portals, the arm is cauterized instantly, normally with heat of 212 F (100 C), it takes 6 minutes to cauterize, so its incredibly hot. So instead of bleeding to death she might just get like 5th degree burns around the area cut.
This reminds me of writing a story with your ocs when you're a kid. You make one character completely unstoppable, they can do basically anything, just a flick of their wrist and can turn you into jell-o, but then they fight and you just forget what the character can do so their opponent can stay alive.
I agree with everything except the Gandalf scenario. I believe the magic of Gandalf isn't like that of Dumbledore for example. Dumbledore can cast spells like there's no tomorrow. Gandalf is more or less harnessing part of nature's magic in their world, and everytime he does so, it takes a toll. Hence why we truly don't see Gandalf using magic constantly with ease. When he does it, it is significant, and you can tell it isn't an easy task..as I already mentioned, it's like he's "borrowing" from mother nature to make the "magic" happen.
If i remember correctly, valar, mayar and istari don't go all out because Iluvatar explicitly prohibits them to. Last time they did, there was such a cataclysm, that the world became round.
Also he probably didn't use it cause it took time for it to actually heat up, and he had to focus do so, so the enemy could probably swing his sword and stop him before the spell could actually take effect. And there were multiple dudes in that shot, and I can garuntee revealing that you can use magic makes you an instant target for everyone who isn't currently occupied fighting someone
@@Azzgore The general rule is that the Maiar are there to guide Middle-Earth to victory, but little else. Gandalf isn't here to be Jesus for them. That's Aragorn's job. He's there to put the right people in the right place at the right time. A little nudge when needed, like giving Bilbo a kick out the door, and a little help where necessary, like the Balrog being too big a foe for anyone but himself. There's a reason Gandalf puts focus on Aragorn accepting and rising to his heritage, as opposed to him just being "I'm Gandalf the White, I can nuke Mordor".
@@Can_O_Crayola While I agree that Gandalf feels that his job is as a guide and little else, this isn't really a fair interpretation of why Gandalf limits his magic use. Obviously Saruman is not respecting the rules set out for the Maiar anymore and yet he isn't nuking Mordor. I think it's more fair to assume that Gandalf going balls to the wall would not have been enough, he needed to let the main cast reach their full potential because he couldn't do it alone. (Of course this goes doubly for Frodo because it's well established Gandalf could not destroy the One Ring) TLDR; Even the Maiar have limits on how much they can tap into magic at any time. The only one who might not is Eru.
I always thought that Gandalf’s spell that heated up the sword was more of a casting spell that needed prolonged focus and eye contact with the sword, which is why he blinded and disarmed the other party members first. While he fought the Orcs, I don’t see a time where it would have been safe to keep prolonged eye contact with a single sword while he was actively in combat with 3 or more Orcs at a time.
Wong- cuts off a guy’s hand with a portal Thanos- has his source of power on his hand Strange- there is only one successful outcome and it involves a massacre
@@rockmandzx Saying 'the story is what it is because it is what it is' is much less interesting to me than explaining why the obvious answers aren't as doable as they seem. Explaining those adds more richness to the story.
@@morriganlynham4964 here is an explanation, strange saw the timeline where he won and realized that if they dont follow that timeline perfectly, they all die. of course he thought about chopping off thanos hand, obviously it doesnt work. its entirely possible that the space stone would prevent that from working.
The best example for the "Sling Ring" power is Bling from X-Men Days Of Future Past. Her power is the same (open a portal to anywhere) and look how she uses her power. She became a great strategist, coordinating other mutants attack, teleporting people for surprise attacks and confusing the Sentinels. Thats her only power, and she's the reason why the Mutants can keep up with the Sentinals for a little bit. Portal powers can be used in such creative ways, yet we dont really see much with the Sling Ring.
The funny thing about magical restrictions is that you can break your own rules if you plan well in advance and introduce a new restriction that sufficiently justifies breaking those rules. Explanation: Let's say you have a character who uses magic system A, but because of that, she can't use magic system B because they are mutually exclusive. However, as the story progresses, she loses the ability to use magic system A, but this allows her to start training magic system B.
Wanda has no known limitations. She has collapsed emotionally and rewritten reality more than once. The overall treatment was what was lacking. It felt like a string of moments-not a process. (None of the attacks are any less cataclysmic than the others.
@@jerrylouis8930 if they wrote her better the could have given her a true conflict of morality or a conflict of effect. Like she can essentially alter reality however she wants but by doing so somehow negatively affects other realities giving her a risk reward issue of being godlike but potentially threatening her goal of finding her children from another reality. At least in the comics her limitations were either the randomness of effect and consistency or her being unaware of how dangerous her powers were and lacking mental stability enough to use them safely.
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I love your videos. I was wondering, have you seen Bojack Horseman? If you have, you should make a video about it! If you havent you definitely should watch it. It’s my all time favorite piece of media.
0:04 You make amazing points, you have my subscription.
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So for future reference for a part 2 I would suggest looking at the animated mothe animated movie doctor strange Sorcerer supreme from 2007 2008 because it did a very good job at 1 establishing in Oregon for doctor strange it was a production shrink but also establishing the rules of magic magic never going over i really like to see somebody do a retrospective of how deep a deep and how it did a really good job love Sort of evolving a lot of characters especially Wong who in my opinion is the better wong than the MCU wong It also did a really good job fleshing Out Baron mordo who am I pinging and the MCU Character was actually flipped inside out Making him more cautious to magic rather than having him be reckless with magic And like I said it would be really awesome if you could take a peek at it and see how that movie did ithat movie did a better job at establishing magic then 2 doctor strange movies
Also the reason Wanda is Able to do things in her body That she can't do in the alternate version body is due to the dark hold because Wanda and RMCU tapped into that power that that other one didn't Wanda didn't and that's 1 thing I will give the movie as it explains that with 1 tapping into the dark hole She gained abilities and up Her power level that the other versions of her haven't done that's why when people say she's the strongest in terms of magic power whatever it gives you I have to remind them that without the dark hole she's now gone back to her pre Wanda vision power levels
I always thought gandalf used the power of burning weapons on the uruk hai at Helm's Deep, and that he could not use magic during the siege of minas tirith because he's migical power had decreased because of sauron . Am I just reading into things?
I remember watching a marvel movie way back, I think it was Civil War, with my high school buds. I distinctly remember Wanda doing something, one of my friends saying "What are her powers?!", and then another one of my friends responding "Red". I think that conversation is a perfect summary of this whole topic
That’s a joke made by a bunch of people
Her powers were consistent back than. It was just moving stuff around and mind control.
@@AshenDemon Yeah, back then, her powers were telekinesis and some mind manipulation powers, not this full-on "let me bend reality".
Right? She suffers the same problem in the comics her reality warping is so powerful that writers never know what to do with it
“He’s fast and she’s weird” I believe is the explanation used in Avengers: Age of Ultron
Wanda powers is basically that game we played as kids where we just keep coming up with counters to each other like "I use my anti-whatever weapon that bypass your anti-everything shield"
Yeah like kids playing rock paper scissors, but they keep adding different objects and explanations as to why they win
Nah everything she did in multiverse of madness she has done before
lol we liturally have this game called 'Peaceful world' u can creates whatever weapons to attack and protect yourself
@@edvardvarjun5328When
"My ray blast does infinity plus 1 damage!"
I don't remember who said it, but I remember someone more informed than me stating "A good magic system has rules, even if they aren't explained to the audience." If a magic system can essentially do whatever the user wills it to, whenever, with basically no cost, it's not a very good magic system.
That might also be a Sanderson quote.
I swear that's shadiversity?
Edit: Probably Shadiversity quoting Sanderson
That is Brandon Sanderson's rules for magic systems I believe.
Pretty sure Brando Sando said this.
@@johnfritzjerald4535 I'd wager it's Shad paraphrasing Sanderson.
The sling ring discussion made me realize a limitation that would make a lot of sense: you have to be intimately familiar with the area the portal opens up to. We don't know what the end user experience is for opening a portal, but making it so you have to specify a point mentally in enough detail that the ring doesn't have multiple possible openings would keep portals from being opened in space, the marianas trench, a random part of a mountain you've never been to, an alien world you imagined and coincidentally is similar to an actual alien world, etc. Having to spend more mental effort deciding and visualizing would also inflate cast time and make it less OP
Also, this would give up and coming wizards the incentive to travel the world and see lots of places because then they gain new potential portal zones, and whenever a portal is opened to somewhere you bring up character-related questions of when they went there and why they chose that specific spot
This actually is the limitation posed in the original film "The more detailed the place you imagine, the quicker the portal will open" the issue is they didn't stick with it.
@@alexanderburkhart4078 well I guess that explains why I don't remember that rule lol
I think this is sort of how teleportation worked in Jumper (2008). People with the ability can only teleport to places they've been to before.
E.g. Hayden Christiansen's character can effortlessly warp from the USA to Egypt, but he had to travel there first using conventional transport.
That reminds me of the teleport and gate travel spells in Ultima Online. You have to physically travel to a place and mark a rune. Then you can open portals or teleport back to that place if you kept the rune.
I can't believe they had 2 of the most powerful magic users leading a whole movie and barely had them use magic.
Magic in these kind of films really feels like punching and shooting but "MAGIC"
sounds like the first harry potter movie
Or, they actually did use magic, they just weren't creative with it. Much like the battle of Hogwarts in the Harry Potter Movies. In the books you had people turning other people into animals and objects, statues and school desks being used as battle animals, teleporting, flying, and everything else aside from just shooting each other with laser spells.
You mean like making a batman movie without batman doing any planing?
Yeah. not the first time
@@ianesgrecia8568if you're talking about "The Batman", he's only been doing it for 2 years
The funny thing is, I think Doctor Strange 1 did a pretty good job limiting its magic and exploring it. There are really only three types of magic in that movie: energy manipulation, which every sorcerer can use and let’s them create glowing weapons and astral project; magical objects, which give sorcerers the power tied to the object but only if they know how to use it and are in possession of it; and rituals, which give characters permanent powers but are very difficult to learn and perform. These limitations combined with Strange’s inexperience make the story really engaging, evident in the Sanctum fight. Strange can make energy weapons, but he’s not great at fighting with them. He can fly and make portals, but only if he has his cloak and ring. The villains totally outclass him in strength and ability, so he has to use his wits and whatever magical stuff he can find lying around to defeat them. And it’s honestly great.
But then we get to infinity war and all of a sudden he can (and can’t) do whatever the writers need at the moment and all the tension for any fight is ruined in exchange for cool visuals.
But to be fair, (I'm not sure if it's canon, but it's widely accepted) Strange's magic greatly improved during his years with dormammu. That's why you see such a big power jump between DS1 and Infinity War
I agree with the DS1 part but just to remind you that in universe there's a 2 years gap between when that movie happened and Infinity War. Plus the time he spent in the loop with Dormammu which no one knew how long it was, he had all that time to hone is abilities.
And I also agree with the fact that the writers give him OP abilities sometimes and take it away when it's convenient for the plot.
Its not Infinity Wars' fault to utilize 2 years gap and make him Greatest he had ever been. That also is a major point in making IW movie such engaging and taking it to great places in storytelling.
That however is fault of MoM to you know... do almost everything wrong. SEE Mauler's Video if possible. Its Fun.
Yeah, the sequel disregards so much of the first one.
Look at his friend, who's name escapes me. His motives for trying to get rid of the saucerers are completely disregarded. Replaced with a throwaway line that he "went mad" completely undermining his realisation of the potentially harmful power they possess. And the setup for him being a potential antagonist in the next film.
Instead they meet him in a different universe (so it's not actually *him* )
And claim that he simply went mad.
Also, this gives us a glimpse into what the film *should* have been.
Wanda was Never supposed to be the villain of this film.
She was supposed to be a minor character who hinted that she may be on the path to becoming a villain, setting her up for a much bigger story in the future.
But the writer of Dr Strange 2, Just "wanted the cooler villain" and didn't care about the effect this would have on the entire universe.
In this film, she is a bigger threat than Thanos.
She's not threatening half the universe or the entire universe. She's a threat to all universes.
That's an Avenger level threat.
That should've been in a film where everyone is called in to fight.
Also, side note, Strange completely disregards Hawkeye, like he's mocking him, but Hawkeye would have been a good ally in this film.
He and Wanda fought together. They grieved together. And he has experience with going off the deep end and being pulled out by a friend.
He would be a huge help in trying to reach her.
Out of the millions of possibilities Strange saw, he didn't see the one where he quickly casted a small portal around Thanos's head and closing it instantly.
Stuff like that is why I can't read comics or watch comic movies, most times even the creators of a superpower don't think about how it can be utilised. And the movie writers are the worst for it
@@o0ugi860 Right.
And making portals isn't even a special skill.
Any decent wizard with a sling ring can make one.
Heck, Ned can make one.
Space stone would be a problem
But honestly it's a writing issue
i think someone said it once, the limitation of a character is the limitation of the writer
The smartest hero/villian a writer writes can't be smarter than the writer themselves.
Something else worth mentioning. They introduced both a way to limit a sorcerer's power and contain Wanda: the Magic-dampening Handcuffs. You know, the ones they introduce in the movie at the same time we meet the Illuminati, a pivotal item that affects the conflict of Strange vs Mordo... the ones that the Illuminati just forgot to bring with them to apprehend the most dangerous magic user in existence... the ones that Strange and Co. could have grabbed while in the lab and used on Wanda at basically any point after that scene...
I'm honestly surprised that I haven't seen anyone else mention them at all.
Yeah that actually is a pretty good point. I guess the main issue is that getting close enough to Wanda to do so in this movie is impossible. She’d just disintegrate you before you could slap on the cuffs. It is definitely worth mentioning though.
@@Sicruett don't Captain Carter and Captain Marvel start throwing her around during their big fight? Have one distract her while the other sneaks in and slaps on the cuffs.
Or better yet, have Professor X be there at the beginning of the fight to freeze her and then slap on the cuffs...
@@insertclevernamehere1186 true, but I think that was just fluff. She’s able to immediately incapacitate Black Bolt and Mr. Fantastic but decided to take her time with Carter. Still a good point. If Carter had been armed with magic dampening they could’ve stopped that version of Wanda.
Wanda dosent do magic with her hands, she's the scarlett witch, if you don't understand something that dosent mean that its wrong, how can people be so dumb while thinking themselves smart
@@abulhasan923 You are seriously calling someone else dumb with evidence like that? The cuffs don’t just target the hands, it shuts off all magical energy throughout the persons body. If that wasn’t the case then Dr. Strange would’ve just weaved some finger signs and broke free.
It made me so upset at how America just had to “believe in herself” to use her portals. Like the whole time after she said her portals open when she’s scared, I was thinking OH! SHE’S GOING TO LEARN HOW TO USE HER FEAR!!! That would have been sooo much more interesting. A character that has to regularly engage with the things that scare them and has to stay vulnerable to be powerful
Remember the first time Bolivia Chavez used her powers? When she was scared of a FUCKING BEE?
It’s the same issue that makes both she hulk and captain marvel awful characters in the movies. They are “bad ass, always right, independent” characters whose only development is realizing that they just need to be themselves or that they always had the power from the beginning and they don’t need to improve at all. It’s awful writing, and is seen in nearly every female character that Disney has made or remade in the past like 10 years
“Horror has a face, and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared.”
Maybe the true powers are the friends we make along the way
@@Pedrintavs🤣🤣🤣😭 this meme gets me every, time!!!
An example of powers done right was The Incredibles. Up until the family goes to the island, the powers were all individual and limited. Then after the plane was shot down, they start multiplying their capabilities by working in teams. I could hardly contain myself, it was amazing.
¹☺️²
YES. Great example!
Then Incredibles 2 decided to have a character with Portals as a power that does all the same things wrong as mentioned for the Sling Rings
@@FF-tp7qs Incredibles 2 was a competently-done sequel, and thus entirely watchable. And like other competently-done movies, I really don't remember anything about it. OK, that's wrong, I do remember being unhappy that they pushed the "rewind character development from the first movie so we can do the same things again" button that so many sequels push. I think I would have enjoyed it more if they had gone forward a few years and done a "Jack-Jack comes into his own as a contributing member" story, have him segue from an agent of chaos that frustrates everyone to a keystone member that elevates everyone else's contributions.
@@ScottHess I'm glad you you enjoyed it so immensely it had a lasting impression on you, but there are plenty of "they can just moments" in the film
When I was a teenager, I was very into a series of increasingly niche table-top role playing games. A campaign using one of them, "Chivalry & Sorcery", produced the most dramatic role-playing scene I have ever experienced.
In C&S, magicians specialize in an element, and are very weak at low levels. My character, a water mage, could only do a few simple and low-power spells, like creating a small amount of drinkable water, projecting a weak water jet, creating a small volume of fog, and so forth.
During one session well into the campaign, my companions and I were exploring a dungeon, already battered and bruised by earlier encounters. We were on our way out when a monster powerful enough to kill us all came rushing down a hallway toward us. The fighters prepared to defend us as best they could. Then, suddenly, I had an inspiration.
"Look confident! Sheath your weapons!" I told the others. They did so, because they knew they were dead if it came to a fight. Then I cast a spell that created a wall of fog filling the corridor between us and the monster. Then I looked right at the monster and did a "Come at me" hand gesture.
The monster was intelligent, and instantly stopped. The fog was thin enough we could all see each other clearly, but it was there, and the monster knew it could be dangerous. And there we all were, looking calm and confident.
The monster roared and did a couple of mock charges, then made a disappointed huffing sound and loped away down the corridor. We all made it out alive. And I still get a tingle remembering this 45 years later.
Limitations are essential to incorporate magic into compelling drama.
that's sick as hell. At first, I was like "what..?" but then i realized..
You can turn that fog into a deadly weapon at a higher level than what you are now, but the monster can't read your stat sheet. It's not gonna run into this wall of "potentially uber-deadly weapon", especially not when they *are all confident they will win.* AND THEY SHEATHED THEIR WEAPONS!
You had an incredible GM for that campaign
So, in the comics, she is genuinely that powerful. She has the power to warp reality at a thought. So everything she does actually fits. The issue with the movie isn't that they "give her new powers out of the blue for plot convenience". It's the opposite, they have her NOT use her powers at multiple instances for nothing more then plot convenience. She's rushing to get the girl so she can go see her kids. But after atomizing Mr fantastic and blowing whispers mind. She... fist fights the remaining 2? And gets slightly beat up and delayed??? She chooses to slow terminator walk follow the girl and Dr strange rather then literally warping reality itself so the path they run leads to her? Like they needed to setup some bs that made it so strange had some form of protection around him and the girl so it forced scarlet witch to have to actually chase on foot.
Yup, you nailed the issue of the movie.
Yeah, even before she was the Scarlet Witch, in Infinity War, she could almost hold off Thanos with all but one of the infinity stones. After reading the book, she could definitely take down Thanos on her own.
they also don't tell us what her powers are.
now granted, i haven't cared about MCU stuff since Endgame - so i might be missing something - but in her debut her powers are summarized as "she's weird" and never addressed again, meaning that anything she does that doesn't fit with "move shit and mind control" feels out of place because we haven't been informed that it's part of her powerset.
@@vizthex that's because they are explained (kinda) in Wandavision, [SPOILERS AHEAD?] she discovers she's not a typical witch but a 'Scarlet Witch' a reality vending pure chaos magic user that is so rare its considered a myth. Tho even in the miniseries they kept most of the magic BS contained and explained compared to the movie
Weren’t her powers supposed to be to make the most unlikely thing happen at any point of time? Like, reality warping powers for sure, but inconsistent. Not inconsistent enough for her to switch to fist fighting, but almost never causing the exact same effect twice.
I think the absolute best case in favour of "marvel doesn't really care for magic" is how they treat the 10 rings in shang-chi. In comics they each had a very specific ability to them, but in the MCU they opted for... magical power strikes?
Yeah that's really annoying for me. Like you have all these different power sources and macguffins yet they all grant the same boring abilities, except it's totally different because the energy beams are a different color🙄
I actually didn’t mind that. The 10 Rings from the comics would have felt like a retread of the Infinity Stones, and would have given the villain way too many powers. What they did instead was a lot more intuitive, and was more about finding interesting things to do with the one power the rings had, which is the advice of this video.
@@drksideofthewal sure the villain would have many different abilities, but there's limitations (ie. the mandarin can only use one ring at a time, and some rings have recharge times after use). It's really on the onus of the writing team to do their research, and show the audience each ring's ability and how it is clearly different and outclassed by the infinite gauntlet (ex. the disintegration ring needs 20 minutes between beams that may not travel far, or last long, whereas the power stone can just be fired consecutively).
@@Maxxy9090
Trying to exposit 10 different superpowers, and their limitations, in a single 2 hour movie is ill advised. There's a reason why the power of each Infinity Stone was already established in previous films. The script is already juggling more important things like plot, and character motivation. Adding a whole unique magic system just for the villain, for the sake of comic book accuracy, is kind of a ridiculous ask no matter how skilled the writers are.
Skilled writers don't add unnecessary things.
Especially in a movie that's about martial arts, not alien lizard magic. Having the rings be a weapon that enhanced both Shang Chi and his father's martial arts abilities made a lot more sense for that story. How is a Shang-Chi even going to fight a guy who can control the electro-magnetic spectrum with just one of his rings?
@@drksideofthewal Well you could probably get quite a bit of rings out of the way in a flashback, or sequence and even have each ring glow in a specific color when being used, here's a couple of examples of usage while mostly staying true to what we got in shang chi:
- Opening flashback: show the mandarin flying in (right middle) ruthlessly destroying his enemies with fire ring (left idx), then concussive blasts (right idx), then an ice beam (left pinky), and finish the sequence with a disintegration ray (right ring)
- Show that the mandarin has been behind the scenes around the word as different appearances using the remaker (right thumb)
- After Shang Chi's mother dies, show the mandarin putting his rings on, and find one of the killers, and torturing one them with the liar (left ring). Then show them sneaking in and appearing from darkness (right pinky), and throwing out some concussive blasts, and immediately disintegrating everything in a rage with Shang chi watching as the ring times out and begins it's cooldown, while the other rings stop working because multiple rings were used within a short timespan, which is something Shang Chi remembers (crazy how trauma works).
- Setup some random spectator in the underground fighting ring, who is actually the mandarin disguised. Then have him blast through some heavy duty glass with the impact ring again, and throwing out an EMP with daimonic (left thumb), or even lightning (left middle)
I could go on obviously, and it may seem like a lot, but the heavy scope can be mitigated by having the mandarin have favorite rings that he relies on, and make the other rings situational. I wouldn't be opposed to gating some of the rings abilities to a simple actions which would also restrict scope, so the writers don't have to explore everything in the first movie. Then there's more things to explore in a later movie. Which I believe audiences would be interested in.
Also there was a mythical dragon in the movie, in a magic land with magical creatures. What's that have to do with real life martial arts? Or even the other mythical worlds in the MCU?
Wanda in the comics had plenty of limitations. The number one being that the more she up'd the ante on her powers, the more chaotic & dangerous they got. She has the ability to alter reality, which is just called magic, but it's different from what Strange uses. Though she does become a skilled sorcery user as well.
Throughout most of the comics, it's a bunch of very smart people telling her to not use her powers to their fullest. She's conflicted and jaded by her abilities, like most mutants. That's what makes them good characters. She's dangerous without even trying. Heck, she even depowered millions of mutants with the utterance of a single sentence, and there were serious consequences.
They just turned her into a crazed villain of the week, when she could serve such an important role within the films, beside being an edge lord girl boss with mommy issues. Wanda deserves better than that.
But Comics Wanda has more advantages too...for example Darkhold can't corrupt her.
@@Supernova-rb5fp Well she was given access to her magical abilities by Chthon, who also created the Darhhold. The MCU really let the air out on Wanda trying to make her fit their "realistic Marvel world". "Oh no, demons in the MCU, no way!" - Flashforward a decade later, and we've got Alligator Loki & Pizzaballs...
They couldn't make up their minds if she was a mutant or somekind of magical creation, just like they couldn't make up their minds on how "silly" they'll let their franchise be. I mean, do I need to mention that Wanda & Pietro were raised by a humanoid cow named Lady Bova? I like how flamboyant the films / shows have gotten in terms of world-building, but the base of this franchise is still very much rooted in the bland 2010's Nolan-ification of Fantasy & Sci-fi.
@@NextToToddliness Chthon isn't only reason why they got their powers,their gens were altered by high evolutionary's experiment on them,High evolutionary will be introduced in GOTG 3, Chthon's name was dropped in Multiverse Of Madness,i feel like they will change her origin once again in the MCU in her solo movie or in Coven Of Chaos.
@@Supernova-rb5fp That High Evolutionary stuff was all retconned into her story in Avengers & X-Men: AXIS #7 (2014), and Uncanny Avengers Vol 2 #4(2015).
I prefer to go with the long-standing lore, rather than the recent reboots of Marvel characters that were altered just to fit into the MCU.
You had me until the girl boss.
This video perfectly encapsulates so many issues I had with Dr. Strange 2. I hadn’t put any thoughts into magic “systems” but this really elucidated my thoughts about the movie.
One thing that bothers me still is the dialog “it’s not sorcery, it’s magic.” The movie never delineates the two and I wish someone would explain the difference to me lol
Well in the movie the quote is actually "this isn't sorcery, its witchcraft" which I guess when said in that way it makes more sense. In Wandavision they sort of explain the concept of Runes which is what Doctor strange and Wong were referring to in the quote however in Wandavision Agatha, the spooky evil witch who shows up, never really explicitly states that Runes are a solely witchcraft based thing so I don't know. One thing I do know though is that in the MCU/wider marvel universe witchcraft is a practice/ability that your born with while sorcery is a practice that can be taught to anyone.
@@elifitchner4056 that’s the biggest failing of the MCU in recent years. REALLY important stuff in the movies are relegated to tv shows that not everyone saw.
Regardless of whether your explanation of witchcraft vs. sorcery is correct, it was the movie’s job to explain that to me, the audience member. It’s a huge failing that line is explained to me years after the movie came out by a TH-cam comment.
I told my husband this movie felt like a group project where each person was trying to stand out from the others. Nothing mattered because everything was just trying to be something you'd never seen before.
Dr. Strange: And The Multiverse of madness is a textbook definition of a movie with all style and no substance. No one who sits and watches it can even give a summary of what the point or the plot of the movie was.
@@offthedeepend3996 Thats true ngl
Lmao i like this comment
At the very least, the style was 5/10 and decently enjoyable. Not something you'll watch everyday but you'll come back and try one or two more times before forgetting about it.
No bullshit 😂😂😂
Honestly the way they gave Wanda every power she needed for the plot with no previous instance of her being able to do these things feels a lot like that kid on the playground that makes up the everything-proof-shield when they're losing a game
Ah yes, the shield of shielding
It’s like playing uno and one of the player just randomly makes up nonsensical rule mid-game
Like captain America has?
In the Comic Book her powers are really to alter reality itself.
ok to clarify: this is not a complaint about a female character having very strong superpowers. its a complaint about how the writers failed to properly introduce these powers to the audience, and as a consequence, the powers feel like cheap deus-ex-machinas when they happen.
Suspension of disbelief can be a fragile thing. If you want to make a powerful character feel satisfying in their arch to power you have to give the audience a sense of how the powers work. You don't need to explain them in detail necessarily, but there has to be a sense of what the charater is and is not capable of.
Once you have established that, you can either A) make them remarkable by showing us how they work around their limitations (the Magneto approach) or B) show us how they earned their newfound abilities (learning them from a teacher, unlocking them with a mystical object, going through an internal journey etc.)
The reason it feels so cheap here is that Wanda just *manifests* whatever the plot needs her to. She's about to get detained by a superhero whose powers are linked to his voice? She can remove his mouth now. She's going up against one of the most powerful telepaths in the world? She is an even more powerful telepath now.
We never see her use or acquire these abilities before they become plot relevant, so they feel cheap and unearned. She doesn't come across as a powerful character, she comes across as a character the writers wrote out of difficult situations in the laziest way possible.
It's a disservice to the audience AND the character.
In my opinion, the two biggest failures of the magic in DSMoM are:
1) Wanda and Strange both have access to very interesting reality warping magic, but for the most part, they just throw balls of energy at their enemies
2) America Chavez had no reason to be a part of the story other than having her ability to travel from one universe to another which made for a very boring and uninteresting main character of the story
If they didn't add America C., how could they tick their South America diversity checkbox??? Biggot.
That's very true.
Also, in my opinion, if Wanda wanted to go to another detention she could've been using the dark hold/dreamwalking to find a way to travel, rather than chasing a person.
Also America's origin story is downright laughable
@@hanbieryu8390 A BEE!!!!
@@hanbieryu8390 actually it was a brilliant symbolic allusion to real life. They showed that she had 2 moms, and then immediately they got abducted by a weird portal. That portal represents Disney viciously removing minority characters from things while still pretending that they support them. They basically opened a door and screamed "gay people" and then immediately slammed that door shut.
I've actually been struggling with this in my own writing.
I'm fascinated by the concept of "wizards"; that is to say, people like Doctor Strange who aren't innately magical in the least, but learn a vast arsenal of spells through study and practice; spells that aren't innately theirs, but rather innate to the setting.
I feel like we've seen a million and one characters who have their one, super special power that's only theirs and no one else's. For a change, I'd like to see a character who uses situational "magic tricks" that require prep time or very specific circumstances to be used effectively; abilities that aren't particularly special in the context of the setting, but become special in how each character choses to use them.
The problem, naturally, is that once you start layering abilities on abilities on abilities, the potential for combined application expands exponentially. It becomes really hard to keep everything straight and avoid situations where the audience asks why they couldn't just use this or that ability in this or that situation.
I feel like this problem is unavoidable for this kind of story, though. Currently, my only solution is to just Tolkien the ever-loving pants off this thing and hope I'm smarter than my audience. Long odds, to be sure.
it could be worth looking at different magic systems in table top roll playing games to see how they handle magic, as this is question ttrpgs have been working with for decades for balancing reasons.
yes, layering spells can get very powerful very fast, but limitations like becoming physically exhausted or having to maintain intense concentration can be a good way to limit just how much they can do at a time.
Perhaps making a mistake can have a large cost associated with it, so trying to cast something in a time of stress is a very bad idea.
If magic can be learnt, the question of 'why doesn't everyone learn it' will quickly follow. So that's something to take into account (imo the 'some people are inherently magic is usually bit of a copout way of getting around this' ). There are lots of ways you can address this, everything from class systems to the cost of mistakes, or perhaps even the cost of success, not being worth it to most people.
if successfully casting a spell takes a few months off your life, the general strategy becomes trying to cast as few spells as possible (and gives real incentive to do things the natural way whenever possible). Young wizards might be reckless with all the years they have to burn, old ones extremely calculating and careful.
It would be worth checking out some other books to see how they handle this. Dragons of Autumn Twilight had an energy cost to magic and also once the spell is used, it is forgotten so the wizard must study for hours even after becoming a master.
The Wizard of Earthsea you could also check out
Try joining a Dungeons and Dragons campaign as a wizard, or find a minmaxer running a wizard and talk to them. If you choose to talk to a minmaxer then show them a list of spells and ask how they would use it. If anyone can break a magic system it is them.
I think another fantastic example of well-written, grounded, simple but well-fleshed out magic was in Avatar: The Last Airbender (the series, not the movie). Throughout the entirety of that show, there was nothing but magic with strict limitations, but time and time again the characters were able to come up with creative ways to beat those limits in ways that made sense in the confines of the established rules.
Aside from Energybending, which was just an asspull.
@@Gnarfledarf yea
@@Gnarfledarf eh
@@doritos4956 eh
There was only one time in Avatar that I think those limits were just broken, and it was more of a well executed shock moment than anything, without much attention being put on it. I personally never even thought about it until it was pointed out in a video I watched. Which is during Aang's fight with Ozai, and the latter manages to create a consistent blast of fire without moving, while Aang is shielded by a ball of rock. Which isn't established anywhere else iirc.
I love how you not only point out the flaws in the movie but actually provide examples of how to improve it
He is saying that randomly making up powers for each scene then never using them again is dumb. And ignoring the wider implications of the powers displayed is also dumb. Soooo... by implication you want to make a magic system that is internally consistent with the character and the world. And one that is repeatable so you can do set up and pay off. So the magic can be used to solve the plot without looking dumb.
This shows that Disney is literally braindead because if they had any brains they’d be paying people like HIM to do the magic making
And stop ruining everything that people put their minds and souls and hearts into
Remember when Wanda was supposed to be a travelling companion for Stephen in Dr Strange 2, with the film serving as a stepping-stone for her on her path to villainy, but Michael Waldron (screenwriter of Dr Strange 2) decided to jump-the-gun and steal the opportunity to have a film featuring a villainous Wanda for himself, regardless of whether it worked for Wanda, Stephen, Dr Strange 2, Wandavision, and the MCU as a whole?
Pepperidge Farm remembers
And then they let him write one of the next “Avengers” movies anyway, making his selfish, arc-ruining decision worthless 🙃
@@martie.mp4 you saw that article too huh?... Damn its sad he's been allowed on still
The version of this film that I believe they were originally making before switching writers and directors, the version that all of the trailers led us to believe we were getting, would have been amazing. The consequences for Strange always tempering with reality that were set up back in 2016 would finally come to pass, Mordo would hunt him down, horrors from the multiverse would spill into earth (like Nightmare, the villain we were supposed to get), Strange and Wanda would team up to fight them, and she would slip further into villainy because of it.
Instead, we got “oops, Wanda turned crazy and evil offscreen, now Dr Strange has gotta stop her by exploring all of 2 universes, one of which is literally just a spooky house.”
@@alenor210 DUDE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I IMAGINED TOO!!
Nightmare would have been such a great villain to have and even brings the whole horror aspect they were going for. Add in Wanda and a few other additions (I've been thinking of adding Iron Fist, Danny rand, to the story as a individual to combat the lower beings and as a nice way to move the MCU to the streets instead of just the multiverse. Adding Rand also adds Luke as the hero for hire lol) would allow for a great story and a great pivot of her character. In the comics we have a theory that Wanda's children are part of a demons soul (i forget his name), but a great spin could be Nightmare coercing her via a similar concept and her helping in his defeat, only to find he was true to his word and her children have been given life, but scattered across the multiverse or something (bit iffy on the details as of rn). Ofc there's many ideas that come to mind but you get it lol
and hes writing avengers secret wars now.. god help us all.
Fun fact, this is a reason why DC doesn't use Zatanna all that often in their media. Her magic is so undefined- essentially her powers are whatever she wants to happen can happen so long as she says it backwards- that it makes her so OP there's either no threat when she's around or there's a mass amount of "why doesn't she just...?" style plotholes.
I just really like the "magic" system in Avatar: The last Airbender. Every Class has like some limitation that just makes sense and during the show they find maaany different ways to use their powers. Examples for the Limitations are: Airbenders alls being Monks who wouldn't use their Power aggressively, Waterbenders only being able to bend Water and not create it and so on.
Agreed! When he was describing what makes a good magic system in the video, I was thinking to myself, man, ATLA really nailed all of it. They also did a great job with power creep & power scaling, whereas with Wanda in the MCU, it's just "she can do this big thing now because the story needs her to". It's not something we ever really see her work towards.
YES, and if u think further -> the Blood bending was forbidden! ... it was POSSIBLE... also the suck out water from trees (same episode) move that water benders have,,, so water benders was Powerful.. but there was a ethical thinking in the tribes whitch use of bending was teached and forbidden strictly!
Metalbending as creative way for earth bending is also a cool exploration...
Air benders could use their powers to control oxygen in the air ... think of it and they can create hich explosive air or Air that u cant breathe... against a fire nation... they would have never loose ... xD but Monks on the other hand would not do that.
for Fire benders... fire springs from their inner self... and there its limited by ther inner balance of the soul (we can see this in the episode were Zuko is struggerling and cant make Fire anymore) the other creative uses with fire are explained with the rich industrial uses in the Fire nation.
Avatar s Magic system is simple -> put 4 Elements together... ... and one hero that can controll all of them (and with that comes Power but also the problem of Choice... 1-element masters would outmaster an Avatar if not in Avatar state (an exploit to get exp thausands of years worth))
man i love that show...
@@Pok-qq9lt Watching the villain in Legend of Korra use Airbending qigainst the earthqueen was really interesting, because you would never see a monk use IT this way.
avatar tla was just a master piece
The world building in that show IS CHEFS KISS
Watching this movie's version of Wanda felt like playing with little kids. They always find a new and b-s way to be stronger than you.
It felt like Barney with " magic" lmfao
You obviously don’t know comics
@@skategrindo Calm down fan boy I know enough to know the acting was way too goofy lmfao
@@fearless3073 eh I still liked it, Wanda was gas as a villain
No you're so right about the kid thing LMAO
"Okay but pretend I dogded that and then I hit you and you died, no takebacks"
I think that the worst part of all of this is that Wandas magic is supposed to be Chaos Magic, the ability to rewrite reality at will and its supposed to be a bad and tempting/corrupting thing but they never did much to preface this to the audience.
They did say it's corrupting. But they basically just mean "it makes you evil against your will". And that's what happened. But there are no other drawbacks lol it just makes you evil. Unfortunately for some, that's just how comics work sometimes lol.
@@majesticm4808 The power itself isn't corrupting in the MCU's worldbuilding, the Darkhold is
My friend did u watch wandavision?
@Heem my friend did you read the comment. The movie didn't preface this to the audience
@@thefatherland7063 it’s a connected film, sure the movie should say it I agree but I’m not sry for ppl who never know what’s going on because it’s just oh so much work to watch six episodes of a show, if u rly care you’ll watch it all and if you don’t rly care that’s fine just don’t go spouting ur uninformed opinion everywhere
I feel like this whole rampage could have been prefaced by a short scene where one of the protagonists mentions that she has invoked some sort of spell that gives her the ability to enact a slew of reality warping spells but makes her incapable of doing so more than once
Would've sounded so contrived anyway. Pure exposition and justification from the writers directly to the audience, immersion breaking.
@@pascalsimioli6777 the same way they used it at so many other points in the movie. It's clearly not immersion breaking and would have been way less immersion breaking than the weirdness that was the inconsistent mess it turned out to be.
As far as your LOTR example:
When it’s one tiny moment like that, it’s much easier to come up with head canon to justify the inconsistency. You could argue the witch king’s presence maybe had an effect on Gandalf’s magic, or maybe being that close to Mordor weakened him.
But when you’re film is FULL of them (as is the case with MoM), it’s much harder to look past it.
One could argue it's a expensive spell on terms of concentration and Ina battle he has to pay attention in lots of other things.
Or that heat magic is really hard, and can only be focused on one point (which makes sense, since that's how heat works). I general, magic in LOTR is very underpowered. White Gandalf is like a God, and the most he can do is create light and challenge a possession. He fights a balrog with level 30 enchant sword, instead of a Kamehameha.
well, we all know it's just in there because peter jackson thought it would look cool, but it doenst bother me, because it's only that one moment
@@O1OO1O1 It's not really that underpowered. The Maiar (and those possessing their power) can literally change and re-declare natural laws. The Istari, the wizards, are much weaker than your average Maiar in order to prevent them from destroying all of Arda when fighting Sauron, but they can still do it, it just takes a lot of effort. Gandalf saying "You shall not pass!" is exactly that, he declares a law, the Blarog cannot pass the bridge, and so it doesn't. The thing is that, as you can see, it took a lot of effort and the Balrog didn't do shit about it and it was rather simplistic, so using something like that in battle would be impossible.
He can also perform lesser magic, like that heat thing on the sword, or setting pine cones on fire in The Hobbit, but he usually doesn't do that as, again, you have to have the time to do it, which you don't have if an orc is trying to stab you from behind.
The water in the river that washes away the Nine was also partly Gandalf's doing in the book, his and Elrond's, both being wielders of an Elven Ring of power, which, again, grants extraordinary powers, but usually not so flashy. Galadriel is another example, she used her Ring of power to keep Lothlorien as beautiful as it is.
And the One Ring is insanely powerful, allowing you access to the wraith world (turning you invisible is just you walking in wraith world), allowing you to dominate others (if you are Sauron, as the Ring only obeys him, really), enhances your power etc. And can even allow you to rewrite natural laws like a Maiar, Frodo does that when he finally breaks and takes the Ring. He tells Gollum that should he touch him one more time he would fly into the fire of Mt. Doom. And he later does. And Frodo says so while holding the Ring.
What makes this NOT contrived is that one, the One Ring's power is in the hand of a Hobbit who doesn' know how to use it and cannot fully do so because the Ring only listens to Sauron, and two, the Istari cannot use their full Maiar power, they are not allowed to by Eru Iluvatar and by other gods, the Valar and Maiar.
The entire magic system is just way more complicated than the movies show you.
@@mn-cb1ry That’s the most likely explanation. Like I said, when it’s one or a few moments, it’s easier to forgive and come up with head canon explanations.
The zombified wanda thing was actually a concept that they were gonna use, with her crown molding with her flesh and becoming a bone like structure, you can see it in the art book for the movie
Bruh that sounds rad as hell. How come every time a shitty movie comes out you see concept art and ideas of wayyy cooler shit then whatever the movie spewed out
I heard the whole movie got rewritten because of some nepo baby director
@@konsmiddel Because of executives demand's that have no connection to the art itself.
like always, a good story destroyed by the board of directors, advertising, a bad director, etc.
@@CeliMe007I'm convinced that this is why so many marvel movies coming out are so bad. I REFUSE to believe that these companies can hire such amazing writers yet create such mediocre product. Like at this point I wholeheartedly believe that a lot of this stuff is the fault of people who can't write deciding to take over entire productions. It's why kung fu panda 4 sucked so bad I'm pretty sure.
This is one of the reasons Death Note worked so well. Death note is simply a notebook in which you write someone's name and a cause for death and they die as long as you picture their face while writting the name. On paper it's a very simple weapon with strict rules on how you can use it. But then the protagonist starts basically exploiting the simple rules to squeeze just as much as he can out of it. For example if you can write someone's cause for death, what's stopping you from writting a very complicated cause that basically manipulates them into doing what you desire? The way the protagonist used the notebook made for a lot of satisfying moments when a rule you wouldn't care about suddenly gets smartly used which gives you this "Oh man that's so smart" moments.
I was thinking of Death Note's brilliant writing the whole time I was watching this video.
Heart attack go brrr
Death Note is not the same bruh
@@homomagii It is. It is a magic which follows a strict set of rules, while being incredibly strong within these rules. It's the same thing as writing any other kind of magic in a consistent way.
Light only started doing that when L joined the case against him though and because L had successfully baited him with the live broadcast, which helped pinpoint what part of Japan he lived in. If he didn't have to try to distance himself from the deaths, Light wouldn't have to do that, unless he got bored.
very small note: i really liked the little interlude you had where you wrote very good fanficiton about bruce banner and tony stark talking about nanomachines :)
In D&D the “Gate” spell, which does almost EXACTLY what a sling ring does, is a 9th level spell, the most powerful magic in the game. This is to say that, like other 9th lvl spells such as Time Stop, Wish, etc., Gate is so powerful you can only ever cast it once a day lest you break the entire balance of the game.
And you have anime like Goblin Slayer who utilize such spells in interesting ways. A gate scroll to the bottom of the ocean? The ultimate pressure cutter that can flood out goblin nests and tear opponents beyond the party's ability to handle apart. Gate scroll to low orbit? Vacuum proceeds to clear the room of goblins while ensuring their death as they fall to their death assuming they do not suffocate first.
But most people would not think like that, most would see a gate scroll as a means of escape from a bad situation.
"Once per day" my epic level 3.5e characters laugh at that, but those characters are on the sort of power level where they face off against gods and have followers themselves, so it kinda balances out
Well... gate also allow multive4sal travel, and mass teleport is only a 6th level spell slot which applies better to the ring
they could have had her brother be alive and distract her or even put on the cuffs and then try to talk to Wanda. it would knock her out of au body temporally
@@TankHunter678 compared to goblin slayers, the mag8c in the mcu after the reboot are juvenile, wishy washy and totally stupid and unimaginative
I find the main problem with Black Bolt's death isn't that Mr. Fantastic told Wanda how to defeat him, it's that the guy who had trained all of his life to never speak in any situation panics and screams.
I've thought this before as well. I just chock it up to (a) he has never had his mouth literally replaced with smooth skin and it was a distressing experience, (b) he may have thought in that moment that speaking would break the barrier that was suddenly in the way, since his voice is so powerful and honestly, who would have assumed his voice would bounce off the skin and to his brain, and (c) he really only needed to make a slight sound and he was done for.
All the same, if he doesn't scream, he can't do anything anyways and it's a pretty lame exit compared to what we got.... I still basically agree with you completely.
But also, why DIDNT his voice break through his skin? Is it the same reason his throat doesn’t blow up when he speaks?
my exact thoughts....
@@bumfrog8513 I don't see enough people talk about it honestly. She doesn't lift a finger and she creates an indestructible and reflective barrier for a power she likely has never seen used before.
@@bumfrog8513 yes
Every spell Strange casted was just “I create something to throw at you”
And did any of these work? I haven't seen the movie - I guess only last one in last fight incapacitated the villain and all others were not only not creative but also failed.
Except for putting her in the mirror dimension.
@@Trekkie46 yeah that’s about it. What really offended me was the scene where Dr. Strange fought Evil Strange and they used magic to take the musical notes from sheets of music to… create magical ninja stars? Wack.
@@TheDanteJamesShow there was actually more to that fight from a musical standpoint. CinemaWins dug into it more by referencing what songs were getting played by the notes and how one note screwed it all up as a metaphorical punch so to speak.
@@Trekkie46 And what did they do with the magic? Turn it into blunt ninja stars to throw it at each other.
Remember in Dr Strange 1 when the spells needed tools or certain movements to conjure and anytime the movie introduced a new spell it made sense?
Remember when in Dr. Strange 1 there were no characters who had reality warping powers?
Remember in Dr. Strange 1 where everything was good?
@@Ingolenuru The villain was literally an Eldritch God with reality warping powers
@@potentpotassium5776 And they treated him with respect and showed just how much his reality warping powers outmatched Dr strange's.
@@potentpotassium5776and if you remember they didn’t beat him. They came to an agreement because strange was willing to stalemate him for eternity, and the villian saw that as anethema, as he lived to devour others. It wasn’t a victory, it was a ‘I will make your defeating me hurt you too’ because that’s all he could do against such a monster.
Gandalf and the heating of the sword:
It may be explained not by a magical heat, but the magical light.
He may have concentrated his maiar light on them, and the sword being made of metal, just heated up. The same magic is used by Gandalf when he concentrates light to push back the Nazgul. One is short range, the second is long range.
It also works better if you're in the middle of freaking resurrecting at the time and so the gate to all that power is still open behind you to draw from.
Wanda could only work if she, being a personification of chaos, had a weakness of never using the same spell twice. Then the counter-play would be to keep repeating the same attack to exhaust her counters. They need to take her by surprise every time so she doesn't get a chance to disrupt the attack before it hits. It's like the opposite of a 9-lives type magic where the opponent needs to be killed 9 times, every time a different way, because the opponent becomes immune to the previous ways.
Still doesn't explain why she can rip off Thanos' helmet but not his head. What was the point of Thanos even wearing a helmet if his head is so much stronger?
@@wefinishthisnow3883 So people don't stare at his misshapen head?
Neat idea
@@wefinishthisnow3883Style
@@wefinishthisnow3883 -- ...because the normal way to attack someone's head is by striking it with a weapon or a projectile, not by trying to tear it off, so that's what helmets are designed to protect against. There are countless instances of the MCU's writers inadequately utilizing characters' powers, but I don't think this was one of them.
One of the reasons I loved the Eragon series as a kid was that the back of the book had a little dictionary of all the magical words and how they could be combined to create a realistic spell & magic system. I’m a sucker for consistency and rules.
oooo that sounds cool actually
And also the first time eragon used a spell it took so much out of him he nearly died
i weirdly enough just finished the entire series, and it matters the ENTIRE series. It literally comes down to that rule in the very final fight. It's important, and extremely well written.
eragon's magic system is so wonderful, i love it so fucken much
My favorite part was the explanation of the language’s creation. Essentially, experienced wizards can use magic without words, and in fact that was the only way to use it for a while, but it was very erratic. If you thought the wrong thing while using magic it could have disastrous results. So, a group of very powerful wizards used the existing magic to give magical power to words, making magic much more consistent, though less powerful.
I understand the idea of Reimi trying to make Wanda more akin to a horror monster by the end of the movie. The problem is that Wanda isn't a monster, she's a character that we'll have to see again. The fact that the inconsistent magic is tied to Wanda in itself is problematic because she's a recurring character. When she returns we'll have no idea of what she even is and the answer will always be disappointing.
@Ashok Sengottuvelu Yep. Against Kang or Doctor Doom she's gonna whiff hard against them for no reason, even though the MCU so far has not established a single limitation on her skillset. As far as we know, there's zero reason she can't just be like "All Kangs in all possible timelines are now one and the one in front of me has had his body turned inside out" without even a gesture or "Doctor Doom's armor, with the man still inside, is now condensed into the size of a penny". Nothing strictly in the text saying she can't just do those things but she just won't for plot convenience.
I'm for one don't want her to return. This movie turned her into a boring character for me. And Scarlett Witch was normally one of my favourite marvel heroes, but this movie made me not want to see her ever again in the MCU. A boring, mentally insane and idiotic character that starts massacring everyone because of the lolz. One thing is the character being unstable, as she always is, and the other is making her some sort of psycopath.
@@Veridiano02 People are starting to complain way too much... It's almost 2023 no one cares just watch the movie or go home and be a nerd smfh.
What would have worked is if she was scaled back in power and has worked the whole movie to garner a specific power (Maybe she fully absorbs America's power and they have to revert it later) and in THAT instance, she is this horrifying, OP villain for a LIMITED time or at least until they are able to revert it. Her being OP off the jump could only be nerfed by her (in movie) insane lack of intelligence.
And she's been portrayed as a villain...twice now? In WandaVision and in Doctor Strange 2, but we're still supposed to believe that she's a "hero" and she'll be redeemed later? LOL heck off
To be fair, Doctor Strange is by design the opposite of Sanderson's hard rules magic. He's always pulling out new weird things, you're not really supposed to know why they aren't reused. Sometimes it ends up stupid, but he's just a window into a separate world of magic, while most characters we see, are just throwing cars at each other. Maybe it's a spell that can only be used once a month. Maybe it's a spell that you need to bribe a sentient alien being for. Maybe it's not a healing spell, but a spell that you cast in advance, to save your physical state and then rewind back to it, and it's just a safety measure you use for portals.
In "Doctor Strange: The Oath," he says something about not being able to conjure scientific instruments with magic.
...What counts as "scientific instruments?"
What would have been really cool to see in EndGame, is instead of having Mantis needing to sneak up on enemies to put them asleep, have Dr Strange, Wong, or any of the wizards open up & tiny portal & have Mantis reach in & put the enemies to sleep. She can literally just stand in 1 spot & have like 4 wizards standing around her, creating hundreds of mini-portals for her to reach in & put hundreds of enemies to sleep. THAT is the type of teamwork we should have seen more in the final battle of EndGame.
Wtf. You think wizards, including dr. Strange, dont have a better thing to do on a battlefield than to open portals? No, your idea sucks, and im glad they didnt do it
@@ziglaus 5 guys working together to take out hundreds with the least effort? That sucks? You high on edge?
@@desadograisedrobot515 theyre wizards. Each one of them can take out hundreds of foes
@@ziglaus And what's your basis on that? What can a standard MCU wizard do to take out hundreds or even a hundred?
@@ziglaus Then grab the not really good but not really bad ones to make the portals.
I think you could expand on your re-write and give Wanda some of her more obscene powers in the film by emphasizing the Darkhold as a focus for her chaos magic rather than her just being overpowered without explanation. Since we know the Darkhold book is a copy, we could make it so the power of the spells to escape the Mirror Dimension or to seal Black Bolt’s mouth are so strong that they literally burn away the pages of the Darkhold, making them unusable more than once and thus putting a limitation on her choices in which to pursue Dr. Strange.
If anyone then asked “Well why didn’t she do ,” the assumption is that she no longer had access to that new power from her copy of the Darkhold, which would put more at stake when Wong reveals that Wundagore exists and the spells can be re-obtained there.
Definitely solves the reason why they did all this to begin with (I'm assuming) show off the skills of those involved to the maximum potential, they got a big name in horror and they what if'd every encounter without considering its context in the story, the story mattered less than those mad effects and cool battles, I mean they really were cool don't get me wrong so it almost worked just from that alone
and it could be that every time she burnt a page it corrupted her more justifying her increased frequency of outrageous feats as the movie goes along, like an addictive power drug. and at the end instead of the heroes destroying the book it could be that wanda ran out of pages and was left semi powerless and therefore defeatable.
So it's a bag of nukes but they're only single-use I like it
Can we nominate this guy to take over the Marvel franchise regarding Wanda moving forward? Because that is such an elegant and logical solution to the problems in the original script.
What might have fixed it is introducing the rule that Wanda can only use a spell from that book once and then never again. I'd prefer her to have more defined spells too, but at least this would explain why she keeps using new spells and never uses them again, and keep the horror and suspense of 'what is she going to do next?'
Hmm, that might work, but the issue is you'd have to do a huge amount of exposition on what spells she's got access to, and where do you fit that info in?
I like this because then we can get scenes of wizard research, wong voiceovers talking about the spells the have seen other wizards use before. We can have the darkhold have an established number of spells (they could even be called the 7 forbidden spells or whatever. We can have some of the spells known and some unknown (but keep the number of unknowns known) we can say that each of the spells in the darkhold take the user one step closer to becoming a creature of the darkhold we can say that no wizard has used all the spells and lived we can have the turning point be when Wanda uses a spell and succeeds only to have the dark hold pull her back in and strange can use the other book to save her (unknowingly taking on the curse of the darkhold for himself.) This limitation does have a lot of legs and to me it helps not just the magic system but the movie as a whole more
I had a similar idea but the spell in the book is contained to one page. After the spell is used the page disintegrates, destroying the spell.
Additionally, the user of the Darkhold should have the ability to create pages in the book with new spells, but the limitation is that it can take days to create a page of a spell.
@@TheCloserLook you could easily show this by having a scene where she uses a spell and a page of the book gets set on fire or the words fade away or something like that
this would be the deus ex machina approach, but It at least attempts to fix some issues.
But that's always been the point, that's why she's so feared, powerful and so unique, Agatha said “no need for incantation”, plus she can literally bend reality, that's the purpose of her power. Even thought I get some of your points, which are not specific to this film but rather to the MCU in general.
Something the MCU forgot is that Sling Rings aren't necessary for making portals, they just alleviate the strain in creating them.
You can make a portal with sufficient power and skill, I'm surprised that neither Wong nor Strange knew that.
Where did you get this information from? I don't remember that being mentioned or shown.
They probably don't care about that because they want to be able to put their characters in tense situations. You know, to make a story.
@@BloatedBaradidn't Tilda Swinton strand Dr Strange on a snowy mountain in the first Dr Strange movie as like, an ultimatum?? And he had to somehow get back using only his concentration?? I may be wrong, it's been a while, but I don't think he was wearing a slingring then. Lol you need to do homework to watch Marvel movies
@@twiceshy9773 He was wearing his sling ring then
@@twiceshy9773 Strange was wearing a sling ring when the Ancient One left him on the mountain maybe you need to do your homework lol. The Ancient One was wearing one too it's written pretty consistently for the orange portals
I think they gave her powers in the movie that she has in the comics, but the problem is that comics often have exaggerated abilities that may not translate well to movies. However, even in the comics, despite being extremely powerful, she was limited by her mental instability. In the movie, it seems that she has no limitations.
She is still limited by her mental instability girl- she is doing all of this cuz she lost her children in the end dr strange and america were still alive cuz wanda descided to give up and let her other variants be happy this movie really shows how far a mother would go for her children and the saddest part is that she knew billy and tommy for onley a few days
Or using hand gestures or casting the spells through words
@@edvardvarjun5328That’s doing it because of something, not being limited by it. She gave up, which was not because of anything related to her mental state if my memory is correct, which my memory sucks so it could be.
@@edvardvarjun5328But the problem is Billy and Tommy were not real, they were just illusions created by her own mind. They never existed in the first place. In the reality where her children did exist, Wanda had no powers, she was just an ordinary American citizen in that reality.
Yeah, the comics are terribly convoluted and nonsensical in all of the ways that ACL describes, and more. What made the MCU good is that it [treated the comics like a first draft. It] knew which stuff to take from the comics, which stuff to change, and which stuff to leave behind entirely.
Wanda throwing Wong off the cliff reminds me of one of the most used examples of this kind of "why don't they just.."
In almost every movie or TV-series where the hero fights someone physically much stronger than them, and they get in close, invariably, instead of grabbing and crushing the hero, they -always- throw them away. That just always annoys me.
Also known as " the terminator".
I guess you saw the Incredible Hulk TV show.
The worst form of that is when characters who can fly get launched and for some reason can't just fly in place to stop themselves
@@o0ugi860 that's actually believable, imagine the whiplash, like when you hit the emergency breaks on your car
@@o0ugi860that’s slightly believable though. They could be in shock or unable to concentrate depending on how fast their moving.
your change of the magic system ALONE would have made that movie 10x better. well done
The movie is a mess
Madness is just Wanda powers lmaooo like they should made a "Terminator" movie about running between universes ! They travel once
To 3 worlds and they have one travel between 20 worlds
Speaking of limitations over abilities, a very interesting example here is Magnus Chase and his sword. He has crazy powers while wielding it, but when he sheathes it, he feels all the fatigue he would feel if he had done everything himself without magic.
I READ IT AS MAGNUS CARLSEN HELP
@@mptyallnme too 😅
Same thing happens in the Eragon series. It's why later in the books the "insta-death" spells are so easy to both use and prevent. for example pinching a blood vessel in your brain.
@@illiantear Always thought it was clever. Feel bad the author got screwed over by Hollywood, but at least he got a good pay day and eventually wrote other things.
Then just never sheath it?
I think the scene against the tentacle monster best summarizes what you are talking about. Strange uses a wide variety of magic in that fight rather than keeping it simple and implementing his powers in creative ways
That behavior might come from knowing too much about a field and being too good at it.
You can't think simple anymore, you want to use everything at your disposal.
That even has found its way into martial arts philosophy.
I'm not sure anymore, who said it (probably Bruce Lee) but the gist was something like returning to a student state of mind again.
The tentacle monster fight instantly pulled me out of the movie. Not only did Strange cut through a bus with his magic, he cut through a tentacle of the monster itself, proving it can be hurt by magic. Then Strange just didn't do that again through the middle of it? Massive logic flaws like that always instantly ruin a movie for me.
Some people aren’t used to Sam Raimi movies it seems lol
@al112v4
This isn't a Sam Reimi issue, it's a studio writing issue. Look at his run of Spider Man and the issues in this movie are absent. Certainly we get Goblins using a number of different gadgets, but they keep trying to use the stuff that worked. Spidey slings away or contains those disintegration bombs. So Goblin uses explosives to damage buildings, or his stabby speeder to sucker punch him.
Necronomicon might fall into this issue but I never saw those movies so I can't comment.
Dr Strange 2 has a horrific degree of "wide as an ocean, shallow as a puddle", and we cannot put that on Reimi. Or, at worst, Reimi has lost his skill.
Instant win against any giant monster: sling ring a portal the size of monster’s diameter, thrust it at the monster and collapse the portal midway through its body…
I love how the sling ring section is basically just like encoded praise of the Portal series. Portal is actually a really good example of the general concept of deeper, not wider. The second game especially introduces a few mechanics and considers how they work, how they interact with the portal gun, how they interact with each other, and the full range of what they can be used for.
💯
Exactly. They basically made sling rings into a Portal Gun that doesn't need moon rocks and Cave Johnson's crazy ass to work.
Give me a sling ring, and I will start juggling myself and enemies, just because Portal and Portal 2 taught me all about portal mechanics.
@@Chaun1998 Don't forget your long fall boots
I think the biggest issue with both doctor strange and wanda is their lack of any defined powers. They have no definite strengths and weaknesses. They just pull whatever magical ability is convenient for the plot out of their asses. Wanda can fly and do red glowy stuff and Dr Strange can do orange glowy stuff. Thats as deep as it gets. (I guess Dr Strange had time control powers in the first movie, but he doesnt have the time stone anymore in the second)
Probably why Dr. Strange in what if worked well he just went about summoning things, manipulating time and making barriers. The reality altering Dr. Strange and the ancient one was pretty good as well.
This is a problem with most movies you'd consider 'super'. They think that just because super powers don't really exist we can't speculate on how to use super powers. I'm glad you used that Sanderson clip in the beginning because it shows that yes, even though the powers don't really exist there are still rules. This is like playing with your little cousin and he says "I win because I win"
I disagree. I think Wanda is well set up by the film as being unstoppable and unstable, hence the cruel and ironic ways she deals with the Illuminati.
Therefore, the only way to stop her is not to attack her, but to make her come to her senses, which is ultimately what happens.
I really like how Agents of SHIELD handled the darkhold magic. A guy gets powers and thinks he is creating new material like coal and water which makes him very powerful. However it turns out he was not creating new matter and was stealing it from a different dimension causing earthquakes and damage to things around him. It also corrupted him and made him evil. It was much better written than this movie.
Agents of Shield generally handles magic (inhuman powers) quite well, many powers have their own weakness (you feel the pain inflicted on your clones, losing your sight, unable to choose when you transform etc), even the strongest inhuman, Quake the Destroyer, breaks her arms if she uses her powers too aggressively.
Team that worked with AoS is pretty good in writing mostly. They handle systems and fantastic concepts pretty well. That's why AoS were able to have a lot of different sci-fi concepts in it and still stay engaging.
@@alatielinara What different sci fi concepts did they have?
agents of shield was a great show. and they really did the dark hold justice as a monkeys paw wish. you can learn anything and accomplish anything if you read it, but you will always without fail go crazy and turn evil, even if you aren't even living but an Artificial Intelligence. even turning the AI evil really drives home the fact that its some eldritch horror completely beyond human understanding
@@TheBeastInBlack Hm there was time travel, then LMD-s (advanced androids) body-swapping for real humans and taking over, then there was season where they ended in PC simulation (basicly living alternate reality inside) ... oh they basicly made dying man into cyborg warrior, also created fully functional self-aware AI that developed human feelings and was given LMD body. And there was several types of aliens in mix during few seasons. They also lived on spaceship for time and traveled th. universe and more. So plenty of scifi concepts 😜 But most of those started after 2nd season i think. 1st 2 seasons were mostly spycraft and dancing around (learning) about superpowers - but very little act. powers at that point.
I remember watching this tv show called Wakfu, in which the main character had the ability to make portals a lot like the sling ring. In that show, he started off as using his portals from simple travel tools, before eventually learning to use them offensively, launching himself, friends, enemies, etc. I always thought it was really cool whenever he discovered something new that he could do with his portals, and I think a kind of sling ring training montage could have fit well in the first Dr Strange movie, where Stephen and the viewers learn of the vast capabilities of the sling ring, and establish its insane powers for the future.
Wakfu is the shit, I still play that game. Yugo was a good character!
I loved that show! I had totally forgotten about it but the fight scenes were so well animated and it had some really unique world building as well
Nox was such a godtier villain
I used to love wakfu when i was younger
Nah gee, can't have that. They need to keep things ambiguous not because of suspense but because they don't want to invest time into the logical consistency of the media so they can freaking insert what they need at anytime
PLEASE you are not alone in this bitter feeling towards Tony's nanotech suit !!! I'm so mad they picked another thing to CGI instead of keeping the bulky feeling of the mechanical suits. We had a whole arc of Ironman's first movie where he creates the first Mark, and not a single scene on him studying nanotechnology ?? Where's the struggle ? The passionate scientific mind working tirelessly on it because He Just Wants To Get It Right ? Pepper coming down the lab to ask him to sleep ? We can't even share the joy of him finally figuring it out !! They did the same thing with time travel, the study felt rushed and anticlimatic. To me this is clearly Marvel's obsession with SFX and laziness in making new props.
His nanotech suit didn't feel right because it was rushed special effects and because we didn't have to work for it. It's like kids playing around and saying "See you can't destroy my armor because it's made of that cool thing so it heals itself and you lose !". They just wanted a quick escape out of trying to choreograph around Tony scratching the suit and losing parts in space because it saves in the costume department. I miss the tension of having to call Marks and the few moments before they get to him. The scene where his mansion gets attacked and we have a slow motion of him sending the suit to Pepper was simply priceless, and the one where he's attached and tries to call it from Harvey's garage too, hilarious comedic timing.
Marvel died with Tony Stark but they were already killing Ironman.
I liked how every magic usage wasn't just a rebranding of telekinesis. For some reason Hollywood really thinks magic = telekinesis. Also the big bad being beaten in a way that wasn't just hit them harder was good. Though I think Doctor Strange beating Dormammu was way better. But ultimately Doctor Strange seemed significantly cooler in all of his MCU crossover than in his own movie.
i like the powers of the scarlet witch to be those of a horror character, like how the mask's power are that of a cartoon character. although i dont like the film trying to make wanda a sympathetic character by having her be motivated by "her boys", and i dont feel it suits this sort of power, she should have been way more of a chaotic evil charater (but they cant because of all the avengers films were she's a good guy)
The talk of how interesting nerfed powers are, greatly reminds me of one of my favorite fics, where the main character has a seemingly useless power - minor banishment. He can make things that are less then 10g vanish without a trace, but no more than that at once, and about 1kg of matter overall before he dangerously exhausts himself.
Genuinely my favorite part of this power is how throughout the story he becomes more and more creative with it, what objects he can vanish and how; and at some point he discovers that his power has devastating possibilities - he can vanish actual bits of someone’s brain away, or their heart. This creates a really cool narrative conflict, where, on one hand he has a “useless” power in a world of superpowers, and on the other hand this power along with his mind is enough to do permanent damage or kill people.
It is one of my all-time favorite fics, so I wholeheartedly agree that the most interesting part about a magic system is how it’s used, not what kind of “cool magic” it has.
That's still incredibly powerful though, being able to just delete things and not even have to be able to see them, like a brain?!? Sure strategically removing important parts of a body or machine would be interestimg but if you can just Insta kill like that its back to boring isn't it?
@@parzavaal5335 most superpowers could be construed as instakill in one way or another. also "...a 'useless' power in a world of superpowers" means they could easily come up against a deadpool/wolverine regenerator that does render them useless. It would be interesting if the 1kg is a total max limit rather than a cooldown
What fic is this?
that sounds really good! whats the fic?
@@i.pfreely8979 Its Juxtapose by readerdreamer5625.
To answer the gandalf thing and the heating of the sword. Gandalf has a personal rule that he follows where he only uses the power level of his enemies. Gandalf is essentially a god in LOTR being a malar he is the equivalent of an angel and is extremely powerful, so powerful that no one except for maybe sauron and few others can even stand the chance of hurting him, but when the wizards were sent to middle earth they were sent to advice the rulers as representatives of the undying lands and the essential gods of middle earth. They were not permitted to get involved directly and could only influence the world around them, if they broke that rule then they were essentially banished from the undying lands forever. Gandalf has a morale obligation to stick with that rules and never uses magic to fight unless he has a cause to do so, and only to match the level of his enemies, example he cast lighting blast at durins bane and can cast very powerful spells, he could have just blasted the orcs and killed them, but then it would have been him going against his morale code and so he doesn't. So he simply makes the sword hot to make him drop it, he doesn't intend to use it again as he is actively fighting against the enemy and it would be unfair to use it against a whole bunch of orcs. In short Gandalf has too much honor and an obligation that he just doesn't want to break.
However, it wasn't explained in the film itself.
@@gaopinghu7332 Yeah but that's the problem most whatever-to-movie adaptations have: You can't go into great detail about everything there is to explain, as it'll consume runtime. For this case especially, why would go in such a long explanation as to "why?" for a one-off scene when most people will forget about it, and the rest will just simply dismiss it entirely?
@@KyzenEX true.
@@Ojas97 I guess that Gandalf just _can't_ interact with mortals unless absolutely necessary, no matter how little it is.
its more a "balance of the world" thing,like how in most stories involving powerfull gods,the reason the gods dont intervene directly is because their power is so unfathomable it would devastate the lands and create unnecessary destruction,so they send messagers,like gandalf,and he isnt allowed to go full rambo on his mission for the same reason@@Ojas97
On the whole nanotech point, there's a trope called Reed Richards is Useless, which is specifically for this kind of thing. In comics, people invent the biggest, craziest, most society-transforming technologies, or create sufficiently analyzed magic that anyone can wield, and they never, ever get used for anything other than fighting supervillains (which is, admittedly, important) and doesn't proliferate to the wider world at all. It also expands to other things, such as the general technology level just sticking to "current year", with maybe a few small sci-fi gadgets here and there, because it was just easier to maintain that than trying to keep continuity. This kind of stuff isn't new to Marvel movies; it's a superhero comic original sin.
The villian really should have been an alternate Strange using the Darkhold. Wanda should have been a red (Ha) harring.
Like America shows up being chased by a monster and accidentally drags our Strange with her as she flees via Star portal. Explains she's a lost multiverse traveller trying to return home. We get the same explanation of knowing another version of Strange that was killed by the monster chasing her. Strange and America travel through some crazy universes in quick succession. Dino world, fascist Hydra world where helicarriers try to kill them, animated world, etc. Ending in illuminate world were their taken to see "Earth's Mightiest Heros". But it's a trap and the illuminate try to imprisson them due to having experience with multiverse invasions (Easter egg for Kang/multiversal war) Strange and America are 'rescued' by alternate Wanda. She tells them that *her* sons have been kidnapped by a monster from another universe sent by another Strange. Evil Strange is trying to use the Darkhold to escape his collapsing universe. It's explained that all the holder's of the Darkhold throughout the multiverse can communicate with each other and Evil Strange has convinced OUR Wanda to abduct alternative versions of Billy and Tommy; this will cause an incursion allowing Evil Strange to escspe to our universe but she doesn't know that. All this is is because OUR strange caused fractures in the multiverse in No Way Home that weakened the walls between universes. Ultimately Wanda needs to send the boys back where they belong and Evil Strange is killed by our Wanda in a self sacrifice move to destroy the Darkhold.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this out, I thoroughly enjoyed the roller coaster.
Hot damn
Much more enjoyable experience
Petition to make Marvel *remake the entire movie to this
Impressive
I just had a thought.
Marvel needs a magic director. Someone to class and organize all "magic" in the scenes and help create AMAZING fights and scenes. I think it would make a HUGE difference...
Probably a couple of script supervisors can fit in that role. Also make them point out the plot holes. (I swear that job was a thing, but not anymore I guess?)
Whatever they get paid, it won't be enough...
Honestly, they should just take the risk of a leak and do screenings for focus groups of average people. Then simply ask “did you like it? What did you like and not like? What confused you?”
Honestly, they need a director for magic, one for consistency, one for not relying on conveniences, one to avoid their pathetic recurring plot holes, also one just to keep Taika Waititi in check when they hire him... Probably forgetting a few but yeah, I feel you, it really seems like they could do so much better without going to great lengths. Because by this point it feels like noone is even reviewing scripts, scenes, final results etc anymore. Just a director with a blank check.
It dosen't need a magic director when the magic system makes sence
@@austinbevis4266 Me after i take a online quizz
The idea of keeping rules of magic in stories consistent and out-of-box thinking for situations such as magneto being in jail is one of my favorite things to do while writing. Just asking myself the question: "Keeping these rules in mind, how can i get this to happen...?" is just so fun to do- it's my favorite way of getting into the minds of my characters because they have to put said rules in their mind as well to get out of bad situations.
exploiting the rules that are pre-established really just gets you in that "OHHH CRAPPPP- WAIT- THAT MAKES SENSE!" mindset- i prefer it over "Oh they just have this power because the writers said so" because its just more fun.
Great video as always, my guy!
As a writer, why did you need to add "my guy" there? Have you not read Elements of Style? Not only is it barbarous, it's unnecessary.
@@O1OO1O1 As a writer, imagine calling a youtube comment barbarous.
@@Rainkit learn to read.
Really love when character learn and evolve their power and use it in unique way. Seem way more creative than giving them new power to solve the problem.
To think out-of-box there much first be a box, or else it just random bullshit.
@@kien9350 Exactly!!!!! I hate when characters with abilities have no rules or proper limitations to how powerful their abilities are. Exploring those limitations and watching the character learn to think outside of the box or evolve how they use their power is far more interesting than the generic power scaling or limitless new abilities being thrown in.
I love the video. I only have one thing I disagree with. Thors hammer has absolutely nothing to do with gravity. There is not an infinite mass that counts on gravity to be heavy. If this was the case, Capitan American would never have been able to life it. The hammer isn't heavy and that's the trick. It's an enchantment by magic. Only those the hammer itself deems worthy of its powers can lift and use the hammer. The enchantment is the ensure if Thor ever died, the powers of Thor can still be used by another until his resurrection.
I agree. If it was mass and you turned off gravity, the hammer would not have weight… but it would still have inertia. So no-one would be able to move it.
Also, if the hammer had infinite mass, the entire universe would be a black hole. :-)
I couldn't really put my finger on why I disliked wanda so much in this movie but you pretty much explained in very well. In addition I much prefer your reimagining of the plot. Definitely seemed more cohesive and far less bogged down.
I think this video did a massive disservice to the Scarlet Witch in the movie. She stopped being Wanda Maximoff and became the Scarlet Witch by using the Darkhold. The movie explained that the Illuminati were losing to an infinity gauntlet wielding Thanos even though they had the Fantastic Four and mutants to help. It explained that there Dr. Strange used the Darkhold and singlehandedly turned the tide against their Thanos. Wanda having read the Darkhold and because of her special connection to it gave her a connection to her reality warping powers and made her unstoppable. The video also repeatedly compared non-magicusing characters to Dr. Strange as if he didn't have mystic protections up at all times and made him a much harder target than the others.
Maybe it's because she changed so radically from her last appearance (which required a Disney+ subscription), from what I've heard anyway.
@Asexual_Individual the Wanda vision show? Yeah I think that's definitely a contributing factor.
@@Asexual_Individual The darkhold corrupts everything and everyone it toches i wonder what its done to you
Also there were way to many crossfades for my liking. Stop judging me I don't like crossfades.
okay, I've been thinking about this the whole video, and I gotta say it: Bending in Avatar The Last Airbender is such a great magic system. There are four bending disciplines, each of which revolves around a central ability or two. Airbenders can move air, creating wind. Firebenders can generate and manipulate fire. Earthbenders can control earth such as rocks and soil. Waterbenders can move water, as well as shift it between solid and liquid.
They do so much with each of these abilities. Most of the time, when new bending techniques are introduced, they're just applications of the core concept of that discipline. The only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head that appear in the original show are lightning from firebending, seismic sense from earthbending, and healing from waterbending. Even these have limitations, though: Lightning is very volatile, and can't actually be fully controlled, only "guided." Seismic sense, which allows the user to precisely sense vibrations, isn't as effective on surfaces that aren't as solid, like sand. Healing only seems to be able to heal things that the body could naturally heal unless you have magic spirit oasis water, which has special properties.
I wholeheartedly agree that limitations can fuel creativity for the magic system's users, and the show does this so dang often. Firebenders can part fire to block it. Earthbenders can whip up a dust cloud. Waterbenders can freeze people once they grab them with water. Airbenders can use gliders to fly. I'm legally required to mention bloodbending and metalbending, which also make sense.
I don't know what to end this comment on. Uhh... the show is really great. It excels in worldbuilding in general, as well as characterbuilding. There are dud episodes, for sure, but that’s like two of them. And it's also one of the shows that gets better as it goes on. Go watch it. If you've already watched it, watch it again.
When you said Bending in Avatar The Last Airbender i thought you were gonna say it was bad and i was bouta write the longest reply ever dissing you abt how wrong you are lol
@@RykerMai , same.
@@RykerMaioh lol
This system had quite big limitations but it also enabled a lot of new things with enough creativity. Toph pretty much kickstarted a new sub category of earth bending, by bending metals. There was also blood bending, which was created due to desperate lack of resources, creator of it wasn't able to use water bending in large amounts due to fear of being found, as it took place in lands of fire benders. That's also reason why we don't see it anywhere else used, because it's small scale phenomena. Controlling plants via water bending is another example, it was created in place where there were right conditions to do it. Every of this example is introduced in natural way, makes sense inside of magic system and doesn't feel like creating something new on spot, only to never use it again. BTW I really liked episode with blood bending, even if it wasn't used later much, it had good explanation on why and episode itself was had very good character development.
The Wheel of Time uses the concept of teleportation portals so so well in the later books. There's even a character whose magic is too weak for him to do anything beyond make portals, yet he is one of the most useful in combat due to how well he uses them.
Yes, I loved how well the magic was setup in the world with all the knowledge that had been forgotten and is slowly re-introduced as powerful weaves are discovered or remembered and Talents are re-discovered. It's a shame we won't get a good adaptation. Rand's Death Gates also mirror what was mentioned in the video about the sweeping portals to eliminate enemies. It took me years to read but I have considered reading it again because it is just such an incredible story.
42:00 Epithet Erased: Literally infinite possibilities for powers and magic, all limited by the fact a person must use a single word. It's super fun coming up with powers this way because it could be anything yet is also restrictive (even in a setting that endorses nonsense)
Its important to remember that Disney fully intended on ruining these characters, but as always, your breakdowns are 100X more entertaining!
A spoiled kid who gets a thousand toys for their birthday and plays with them by chaotically smashing them to bits against each other, only it somehow generates literal billions of dollars 🙄
I agree they were mishandled, but I'm almost certain it wasn't intentional, just a lack of competence in writing
How can you tell it was fully intended?
@@menacingjefferson8304 Its the ongoing theory that Disney is trying to replace the old favorite characters with a newer, more diverse, younger, easier to control, and cheaper cast. The newer cast however won't bring in new people so they have to be made to look really good in comparison to the older cast to generate hype.
@@TheDetectiveJ what's wrong with diversity you some kind of a racist ?
That rewrite of the MoM magic system at the end instantly made it so much more exciting! Especially the ending with zombie Strange being immune to the Darkhold's magic
It made it weird and made wanda the peron who is ment to rule everything a weak charachter
In a way this also applies to how the mcu initially handled Spider-Man, while it was cool to see all the gadgets from stark we didn’t get a display of peters creativity and wit that we love. The swinging from crane to crane or outsmarting/reasoning with a villain. I rly hope with Pete being put at his lowest we see more of this and get the satisfaction of seeing the power of creative solution solving :]
the problem with the Spiderman movies was that he never got his origin story. This was rectified in No Way Home where it is basically revealed that these first 3 movies were his origin story. The first movie had him struggling to meet Tony's expectations, the second had him struggling to fill Tony's shoes after his death, and the third finally had Uncle Ben dying with Peter finally understanding his place in the world. The whole with great power comes great responsibility speech.
That would have been great. It struck me as so strange that they gave him the strength to lift all of that rubble and mostly hold together the ship in the first movie. He's already got web slingers, Stark's gadgets, and precognition. Captain America-level strength would be fine, but not Herculean strength.
What do you mean? We actually see plenty of Peter using his wit and intelligence throughout the trilogy. In Homecoming, he actually used Tony's tech creatively such as using the ricochet web to latch on the elevator or other stuff such as split web to grab two goons and flip them over. It's gotten so much that when he lost them all, he thought he couldn't do anything until he realise he was more than without it.
In Far From Home, that's LITERALLY even more apparent at the final battle. He used the taser webs to shut down the drones but that was merely about it, everything else was about his typical webs. Using them to make a huge net to destroy multiple robots, make an elaborate set up to grab multiple of them to slam them to the ground and even making a makeshift bomb to destroy them. Hell, he defeated Mysterio using his own spider sense.
Really, MCU Spider-Man really was the Spider-Man I thought handled his creativeness better than the past 2 live action Spider-Men.
everytime wanda does something in dr strange 2, my brain goes "she does what now??"
Your discussion about "big ideas being introduced and never being explored again" was most strongly felt w/ Iron Man 3 for me. He "quits" being Iron Man only to show up flying in Avengers 2, and by Avengers 2, you can already feel them struggling w what to do with the "Iron Legion" who are too op for other stories, and who never show up again
The MCs having an army of Iron Man Suits at their disposal would just solve so many problems without much effort.
Well they did get blown up at the end of Iron Man 3 so they probably didnt think it would come up again.
he didn't quit Iron Man he quit using the suits he made dozens of and decided to start fresh and use and create his suits in a more healthy way
How I saw the Wanda killing professor x scene was not Wanda going into his mind and dominating him, but him going into Wanda’s mind and not realizing how powerful her grip on other Wanda was.
Yes, this is exactly how I read the scene. 👍
I thought that was the scene, damn.
Yes, but Prof. X went into the other Wanda's mind, the one being suppressed by "dreamwalking". For Evil Wanda to break into her other self's mind, and kill Prof. X inside it... That kind of implies, that she can just break into others' minds willy-nilly.
@@EvanOfTheDarkness That was the whole point of the Darkhold story line, that users can dream walk (I forget if that's what they called it) into the mind of another universe version of themself. So that was the power of the Darkhold and yes Wanda as well. But we see Doctor Strange do the same thing later into the dead body of himself.
@@testfire3000 No, they take over body, but do not enter the mind. Those are separate things, and yes Prof X. can do both.
Man, "why don't they just" segment was exactly how I felt throughout the entire movie. Strange is considered one of the most powerful mages in the universe, and he was just useless through the entirety of it. They managed to "defeat" Wanda with fucking "feelings" and she just killed herself instead of Strange/America killing her by hand by falling down with the building (which she definitely could survive).
She did survive it lmao. She just destroyed the darkhold and the place of power, do you honestly thing the most powerful mage in the entire MCU is just gonna die to rocks?
@@druidboy25 well, knowing how shit everything marvel is now, i honestly wouldn't be surprised
@@druidboy25 same thing with Monica Rambeau, how did dropping a statue on her kill her? Isn't she also supposed to be one of the one of the most powerful beings in the universe?
This is the way I would have felt too had I never consumed any of the relevant source material and only watched this movie in a vacuum.
Wanda was defeated by changing her mind about what she wanted because that's how every story involving the Darkhold ends. The reader of the Darkhold, having been given what she thought she wanted, is horrified by the reality of it and rejects it. In rejecting it, the Darkhold loses the ability to manipulate the reader. This is what happens in Agents of Shield as well.
Strange is useless against Wanda because Wanda has the Darkhold. And the Darkhold will give her information about whatever magic she needs in order to pursue her children because pursuing her children creates a bridge between realities, which is what the Darkhold needs.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp
someone pointed out to me that actually looking at the fight Wanda is siphoning her power throughout to make Captain Marvel vulnerable
Regarding your comments about Wakanda providing their tech & Tony getting Nanotech, it would have been very easy to address both in the same sentence. The Black Panther suit hides very similarly when not in use, so Tony could have said something like "Wakandan trade initiative, I showed them how to make Arc Reactors, they showed me how to make Nanotech."
The point you made about wanda being able to warp reality permanently without making a move and for example paralysing a character in that way is actually really interesting, because if I remember correctly, in the comics wanda is among the only characters who were able to make Xavier walk again
Oh!? How did she do that
@@dott8348 she manipulates reality, thats her whole thing?
Also if you didn’t know, black bolt freaking out is also highly contentious because you’d think someone that powerful would have slightly more self control, and he should.
He looks like the kinda character who had to heavily train himself to NOT speak, NOT scream, NOT freakout. Nerves of vibranium. Else, something horrible happens.
And behold, something terrible happened!
Exactly so. Even if he did become scared, he would have gone through life long training to not speak or yell in distress. Imagine if black bolt got spooked by something while in a city, or if he yelled in pain after getting hit by an enemy.
@@Kryto_Gaming fr, and people defend this saying it’s an alternate universe, but what kinda defense is that? They are still themselves, and this is still horrible writing
@christophermoore6110 Yeah, the issue is that even in an alternate universe, things should make sense within that universe. In no universe does Black Bolt rise to a position of power as a well respected hero and not have the ability to control himself.
Ofc you can imagine insane outliers, like maybe Black Bolt never learns to control his voice but he uses a machine to suppress his voice etc, but the same concept applies.
Self control is actually a central trait of the comics Black Bolt personality. The slight loosening of his restrain might be catastrophic.
I think another cool way to explain her powers would be to say each version of Wanda has different abilities and therefore they could have have the shudder effect of not knowing what's coming next without shooting themselves in the foot everytime she forgets to use said broken ability. So darkhold wanda has energy bolts, can fly, and with the darkhold body hop. Illuminati dimension wanda can augment bodies but only if she touches them, and then can also teleport. ETC ETC this carries on and gives the heros an actual chance at beating wanda while still giving her Voorhees vibes of being nearly unstoppable.
Sounds like it would still end up with the problem of her getting every power for the perfect moment.
That just doesn't work for a story.
You can't have ever changing powers for the villain and make a compelling finale, because it will never feel like the heroes actually succeded and more like they just got lucky.
@@Lukashoffmann94 no the problem is that she you couldn't tell what power she DIDNT have. If the movie established that she had 2 powers that differ depending on the body then they would have figure those powers out and then combat her in different ways, which is oerfect for strange who has a big bag of tricks. That's compelling in that it doesnt feel like she just convienently forgets what powers she has while still giving her surprise factor.
@@Lukashoffmann94 Also it doesn't have to be the "perfect" power but in general it's a better idea than all the Wanda's having all the powers
@@bright_and_breezy-n2e Maybe it could work, but not in a single movie.
You would need 2-3 movies to properly introduce the power sets, let the heroes figure out the trick and then come up with a plan and execute it.
And I still don't like it.
Having a compelling reason to force her into a power set, that the heroes can beat, is hard, when her other sets are supposed to win against them.
@@Lukashoffmann94 No you don't, the whole reason for the idea is to give Wanda that surprise factor. Just add in a throw away line from strange after they meet the 2nd Wanda that goes "she teleports?! 😮 She must have a different ability in each universe!" Then boom established, it also could be America who says ut whole she's explaining the multiverse like "Some people even have different powers". Also you seem to be stuck on the idea that she has whatever power is convenient, but I never said each Wanda has to have a convenient power, just a different one. I don't know what's not compelling about this idea, it solves the problem of Wanda being a walking plot hole in so many situations.
That rant at the ten minute mark actually captures the wide problem of how science is used in the series as well. Not just the nanotech suit, MCU has technologies so ludicrously advanced in certain aspects, that the world should look extraordinarily different than it's shown to be. But they don't get that deep into the ramifications, its mostly used at surface level as per the individual story beat needs.
Best way to Handle the Sling Ring Problem would be to explain it in Doctor Strange 1 Training Montage that it's a highly complicated spell inscribed to the ring. This in turn makes it easy to perform but the designers of the ring had to put many restrictions on the spell as unchangeable parameters that makes it's use very specific but also miniaturizing the size of the tool (The Rings).
The sorcerer supreme being who he is (most experienced, knowledgeable/powerful sorcerer on earth) makes it manageable for them to use the spell and modifying the parameters on the go instead of the ring in battle but use the ring in daily life because it does require a non insignificant amount of concentration.
Hence TL;DR The ring opens a portal directly in front of the user and hold it there in upright orientation nothing more. The spell itself opens a portal and the caster can do anything they want with it.
I like the idea of the rings allowing for easy access to the spell, but with limitations. It gives this implication that a much better sorcerer can do much more than just teleports, and who knows, maybe we'll see some of that.
Having her control all things living (plant and fungi included) is actually really smart since the climax is set in an arctic desert. That makes the final showdown feel like a trap to bring down a more powerful foe, instead of exotic window dressing.
You've finally explained that feeling after watching a film that makes you immediately start googling "Why didn't X just do Y?"
I love reading about that stuff if there's a good reason for them doing something the way they did, seeing all the little nuances you missed that make re-watching a film an absolute joy.
On the other hand, it takes all the joy out of the film when the only good answer to "Why didn't X do Y" is "Because the film wouldn't happen otherwise."
yh something always feels off when in one scene she's a god and in the other she's running with a limp towards a very sprint-like speed strange
I mean the video really connected the dots for me but like damn
altho unrelated, and not to the extent of wanda's deus ex machina bullshit, I remember going "why are they fighting with music notes again, just for the final epic scene"
it just doesn't make sense
@@ghetoknight7801 Yeah, it seems like a lot of MCU Phase 4 suffers with this level of shoddy writing. I just hope they can bring it back in Phase 5.
Like She-Hulk complaining to Hulk that he was "mansplaining" to her about what it's like to be the Hulk. You know, the guy with the most experience of being the Hulk. Not only that, but then she starts "mansplaining" to _him_ about what it's like to be the Hulk. Ermm... Wut?
the nano technology part got me lol....😂😂
Magneto is an interesting example when taken in all media in which he appears as some runs of the comic expand his power to encompass essentially everything related to magnetism including conduction (so he could manipulate lightning to an extent) and cause strokes.
It must have taken every bit of the writers' restraint to avoid giving him the power of the semantic concept of Magnetism in the same way that AquaMan had power over all sea creatures and the semantic concept of fish (including Silver Fish) during the 00s.
One could just imagine playboy Magneto channeling the powers of Animal Magnetism.
It should come as no surprise that he receives the most power demotions of any of Marvel's mutants just to keep things interesting regardless of whose side he is on at the moment.
Magneto can control magnetism at a molecular level. Even causing an atomic bomb if he wanted. Dude is just ridiculous.
Another benefit of your version is that we get a tidy explanation for why Wanda gives up in the end - her kids are terrified at the sight of her rotting body and run from her. She realizes they see her as a monster, then she realizes what she has become.
What rotting body? Only Strange was rotting.
@@metalore they're talking about The Closer Look's version of wanda, have you not watched the video?
How is that another benefit, it’s already what happens in the movie: they get terrified of her and she realises they don’t see her as their mother and she realises what she has become
@@metalore you really should watch the whole video before asking questions….it makes you look foolish😊
@@snowfloofcathug it's the same, but it makes the reason why they're scared of her better because it ties in with the cost of the magic set up in the beginning--that her body is rotting because she's going to far with her use of the magic
did you not pick up on this when you watched the video, if you did at all??
Something I hoped with the movie was how the different magic systems would be incorporated. Think about it, they've established before MoM that chaos magic, shape magic and witch spells all have different uses and strengths, but it all summed up to different coloured lights being on the screen
My biggest problem with Dr. Strange 2 is that the whole movie seems to forget that you have to earn the audience's suspension of disbelief. Sure, the magic system is a big part of it, but a poorly-conceived magic system alone can be worked around. Problem is, the movie seems to rely on suspension of disbelief to get across its message and/or set stuff up for whatever other Marvel thing will inevitably come next (i.e. America Johnson just seems to exist so she can be quickly shoved into The Marvels) that every other creative aspect of it shatters at the slightest impact.
The action? Littered with discrepancies and ass-pulls. The plot? Contrived, frustrating, and to top it off it feels like it has little to nothing to do with previous related works (like Dr. Strange 1 and WandaVision). The characters? The new ones are nothing fillers, and the old ones are either at best their worst/dumbest selves or at worst so out of character they might as well be body-snatchers (looking at Wanda here, she got butchered). In other movies, most of those would be nitpicks or flaws that can be pushed through, but there's just too many in Dr. Strange 2. So little works creatively in the movie that even less critical watchers like myself can't help but notice the flaws, especially if Marvel Fatigue has set in, making the visuals and acting less effective distractions. It's like going to Disney World only to realize all of the rides, restaurants, hotels and transit systems have gone to shit: Sure, the branding is on point, but that doesn't matter when nothing works and the staff keeps pretending everything isn't broken and miserable.
The explanation for Gandalf not using more magic is found in his task. As a wizard, he, like Saruman (even tho he later got corrupted by the ring), was send by the gods to guide the people of the west against Sauron, but not to fight their fight for them. Gandalf's task was to guide the people of middle earth against Sauron, but not to destroy Sauron himself. So Gandalf only uses magic when it is necessary, and normally not to greatly alter the fate of middle earth (Saruman and the Balrog being obvious exceptions)
then again, the movies never really explained that
And where does this is said in the movies? You can only judge something based on what its said and shown
@Erich Degurechaff You know the LOTR movies show a VERY small fraction of Middle-Earths lore, Sauron isn't even the big bad of the universe, but a general of the big bad guy named Melkor/Morgoth. Also the LOTR movies were based of course on the very thick book named Lord of the Rings, so they left quite alot of stuff even from that book and there's so much more to Middle-Earth than that book.
@@-AxisA- And what this has to do with the movie? You cannot judge a adaptation based on the source
Strange in his cameo in Ragnarok and showing in Infinity war had me hyped. He went from underwhelming in his first film to a confident and capable sorcerer and theoretically he was still learning and growing more powerful. Then Dr.Strange 2 happened and he was beyond nerfed. Wanda didn't feel menacing because the was OP, she was just the only person who didn't get nerfed to oblivion. Strange from IW still feels like he'd have a chance of taking her.
No dr strange wasn't nerfed he was buffed its just that wanda was way more buffed now that she has the knolage of the darkhold
@@edvardvarjun5328 I disagree, he showed almost no equivalent feats in the film even when Wanda wasn't there. They just clearly go lazy with the magic and while I agree their intent was to make Wanda seem stronger they made the classic mistake of depowering the hero to make the villain look strong which just makes everyone look silly.
@@kronos1794 dr strange knows he coulden't do anything to hurt the scarlet witch he probs read somewhere in a book that the scarlet witch is undefestable so he didn't even try the magic was way more creative in this movie
@@edvardvarjun5328 Writers should have shown the audience the contents of that book or that what he did to Thanos in IW is not working for Scarlet Witch, instead of speculating and theory bs that the fans made as an excuse to justify their idolatry. Where is the powerful and creative Dr. Strange that they showed in Ragnarok and IW?
For Gandalf's "Heat Metal" spell, we only saw him do it to one sword, meaning there's no reason to believe he could do it to multiple weapons (much less all the weapons of an entire army) at once. Also, it took several seconds to make Aragorn drop it, meaning the orc that was mid-swing by the time he noticed it would have still landed the hit if he tried to use that spell, even if he started the moment he noticed that specific orc.
Alternatively, it only heats metal that's in a general area, a non-metal handle would have rendered the spell far too ineffective to be possible mid-battle
Heat metal only targets one creature in dnd
another reason why Grandlf might not be using that spell on the orc just power through the heat and get one last swig first before dropping it. Grandlf knows this that is why he not using it on the orc. but humans will drop that hot item once it reaches a certain temperature. and lastly if he wants to reach a high temperature fast he must concentrate on just only one a lot of them will just take too much time to heat up.
Yeah using heat metal on multiple targets takes a higher level spell slot for each additional target meaning that in order to hit an entire army with it, you would need so much power that you could just kill everything anyway
Also orcs are resistant to pain
So even if he noticed he will still swing the sword for at least 5 seconds more before throwing it
slight issue that ends up being another cool thing about the slingring: you said that when cutting with the portals, wanda would bleed to death, but in the clip that shows cutting with portals, the arm is cauterized instantly, normally with heat of 212 F (100 C), it takes 6 minutes to cauterize, so its incredibly hot. So instead of bleeding to death she might just get like 5th degree burns around the area cut.
This reminds me of writing a story with your ocs when you're a kid.
You make one character completely unstoppable, they can do basically anything, just a flick of their wrist and can turn you into jell-o, but then they fight and you just forget what the character can do so their opponent can stay alive.
I agree with everything except the Gandalf scenario. I believe the magic of Gandalf isn't like that of Dumbledore for example. Dumbledore can cast spells like there's no tomorrow.
Gandalf is more or less harnessing part of nature's magic in their world, and everytime he does so, it takes a toll. Hence why we truly don't see Gandalf using magic constantly with ease. When he does it, it is significant, and you can tell it isn't an easy task..as I already mentioned, it's like he's "borrowing" from mother nature to make the "magic" happen.
If i remember correctly, valar, mayar and istari don't go all out because Iluvatar explicitly prohibits them to. Last time they did, there was such a cataclysm, that the world became round.
Also he probably didn't use it cause it took time for it to actually heat up, and he had to focus do so, so the enemy could probably swing his sword and stop him before the spell could actually take effect. And there were multiple dudes in that shot, and I can garuntee revealing that you can use magic makes you an instant target for everyone who isn't currently occupied fighting someone
@@Azzgore The general rule is that the Maiar are there to guide Middle-Earth to victory, but little else.
Gandalf isn't here to be Jesus for them. That's Aragorn's job. He's there to put the right people in the right place at the right time. A little nudge when needed, like giving Bilbo a kick out the door, and a little help where necessary, like the Balrog being too big a foe for anyone but himself.
There's a reason Gandalf puts focus on Aragorn accepting and rising to his heritage, as opposed to him just being "I'm Gandalf the White, I can nuke Mordor".
lol imagine if gnadalf can go all out in LOTR... it will be just story about galdalf vs saruman, and gandalf vs sauron... if he can beat saruman
@@Can_O_Crayola While I agree that Gandalf feels that his job is as a guide and little else, this isn't really a fair interpretation of why Gandalf limits his magic use. Obviously Saruman is not respecting the rules set out for the Maiar anymore and yet he isn't nuking Mordor. I think it's more fair to assume that Gandalf going balls to the wall would not have been enough, he needed to let the main cast reach their full potential because he couldn't do it alone. (Of course this goes doubly for Frodo because it's well established Gandalf could not destroy the One Ring)
TLDR; Even the Maiar have limits on how much they can tap into magic at any time. The only one who might not is Eru.
I always thought that Gandalf’s spell that heated up the sword was more of a casting spell that needed prolonged focus and eye contact with the sword, which is why he blinded and disarmed the other party members first. While he fought the Orcs, I don’t see a time where it would have been safe to keep prolonged eye contact with a single sword while he was actively in combat with 3 or more Orcs at a time.
Like dnd’s heat metal that requires almost complete focus to concentrate on the spell
Also it could backfires if you time it wrong and the sword already swinged at you
love how you turn into solid jj with the nanomachines bit
Wong- cuts off a guy’s hand with a portal
Thanos- has his source of power on his hand
Strange- there is only one successful outcome and it involves a massacre
so.... get rid of plot and story?
@@rockmandzx or make there an explanation for why things work like that
@@rockmandzx Saying 'the story is what it is because it is what it is' is much less interesting to me than explaining why the obvious answers aren't as doable as they seem. Explaining those adds more richness to the story.
@@rockmandzxno, just write a better story doofus
@@morriganlynham4964 here is an explanation, strange saw the timeline where he won and realized that if they dont follow that timeline perfectly, they all die. of course he thought about chopping off thanos hand, obviously it doesnt work. its entirely possible that the space stone would prevent that from working.
The best example for the "Sling Ring" power is Bling from X-Men Days Of Future Past. Her power is the same (open a portal to anywhere) and look how she uses her power. She became a great strategist, coordinating other mutants attack, teleporting people for surprise attacks and confusing the Sentinels. Thats her only power, and she's the reason why the Mutants can keep up with the Sentinals for a little bit.
Portal powers can be used in such creative ways, yet we dont really see much with the Sling Ring.
I believe you're thinking of Blink, Bling is the mutant made of diamonds
He did show Blink in this video lol
The funny thing about magical restrictions is that you can break your own rules if you plan well in advance and introduce a new restriction that sufficiently justifies breaking those rules.
Explanation:
Let's say you have a character who uses magic system A, but because of that, she can't use magic system B because they are mutually exclusive. However, as the story progresses, she loses the ability to use magic system A, but this allows her to start training magic system B.
Wanda has no known limitations. She has collapsed emotionally and rewritten reality more than once.
The overall treatment was what was lacking. It felt like a string of moments-not a process. (None of the attacks are any less cataclysmic than the others.
@@jerrylouis8930 if they wrote her better the could have given her a true conflict of morality or a conflict of effect. Like she can essentially alter reality however she wants but by doing so somehow negatively affects other realities giving her a risk reward issue of being godlike but potentially threatening her goal of finding her children from another reality. At least in the comics her limitations were either the randomness of effect and consistency or her being unaware of how dangerous her powers were and lacking mental stability enough to use them safely.
Didn’t they do this in Legend of Korra (but badly)