The Missing Mutant - Changing X-Men Dark Phoenix
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
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I am a humongous X-Men fan. I love the shows, comics, movies, and games. I mean, as I write this description, I am reading the new X-Force 4 by Benjamin Percy. And, even thought it was fine, I found Dark Phoenix incredibly disappointing.
And I don't think this movie could necessarily be "fixed" since there are so many fundamental problems with these movie. So instead of changing the entire movie, I am going to simply ask a question. One that I thought about as I left the theater. And then I'm going to see if that answer could improve the movie.
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Nando v Movies I thought you heard of Jason Wyngrade aka Mastermind?
Nando v Movies I also thought that the missing character was Olivia Munn
Emma Frost can cheat death like Charles did. Magneto went to prison in 64. Emma Frost died in 63 when JFK was shot before Magneto was arrested, X-Men Origins takes place in 85 (I'll explain why that is if you're interested), and Tanya Tahzi, the Origins Emma actress was 22 years old when she filmed origins. When Emma died in 63 she did a consciousness transfer into a braindead foetus inside Kayla Silverfox's mother becoming Emma Silverfox/ Frost. If you do the maths 1985-1963= 22 years, the age of the actress who played her in Origins. Enough time has passed in the real world for Tanya Tozzi to be the right age to play Emma in the 90s when Dark Phoenix is set.
TheStarWars Guy well are some mutants are immortal I think
The 90’s X-Men cartoon was what got me into the comics growing up. It was also the reason why I got Disney+ (outside of Gargoyles and Avengers: EMH).
As for X-Men movie, it’s tied between First Class, X2 and Logan. If Marvel Studios can top all of those, then they have my gratitude and no wrong. However, I doubt they’ll go as far as Logan smoking, even have half the inspiration of Archangel’s rebirth to Metallica’s Four Horsemen in Apocalypse or Nightcrawler’s White House attack in the tune of Mozart’s Dies Irae or the heart of Charles and Eric’s friendship in the First Class movies.
"It's a small change"
Actually makes the movie 10X better like a boss
Sometimes the smallest change can make a big difference
@@alexwallar8608 I understood that reference
*patreon time*
Yes plus i like how he referenced the other films in their dialogue. He did great
6:40 Darwin didn't die, obviously his powers safely removed him from the story. It was the most certain way to escape whatever the writers were planning for him.
I would literally pay all of my money if and some kind of future, better story with a better role for Darwin, he just appears because instead of dying his powers teleported them into a story that wouldn't convolute his own death.
Darwin has some of most visually interesting powers that would make for creative fight scenes. I don’t really care if he didn’t actually die but I just wanted to see more of him. In the comics he has gone toe to toe with stronger beings than Sebastian Shaw
I would have been down for that if he came back later in the movie
Darwin was gonna fight Hulk in the comics once. Instead of that, he developed the ability to teleport. So this idea has a basis from the comics
Dracosfire14 yeah he would realize in a movie and say okay see you guys in a sequel
Jean: "I thought you were dead"
Emma: "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
"Vuk" is an old slavic name for "Wolf", so she was literally a "Wolf in sheep's clothing".
It's not old slavic, Vuk is still used as a word for Wolf in most slavic states.
Still lame
@@christopherwilliams242 It'll be forever lame
So what you're essentially saying is that a Wolf is responsible for killing a Fox?
Booooooo!!!
Dark Phoenix was a clustervuck
Gotem!
Nice
Ha
HAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!
*Rimshot*
Dark Phoenix would’ve been a better movie if it had focused on just the drama WITHIN the X-Men. It’d be a nice deviation from the human/mutants conflict that’s permeated the series (maybe the only other tertiary villain could’ve been Mister Sinister; he could’ve been partially what triggered Jean to tap into the Phoenix Force in say a telepathic battle reminiscent of Scanners).
No way! It makes 0 sense to use a villain as Sinister in a movie that is supposed to have its own villain already (The Dark Phoenix).
Alessio Alessi or what about Deadpool 2
It would have been better not made but another film entirely with Mr Sinister as villain especially since his name was teased in a previous film
Happy Guy yeah the post credit of X-men apocalypse with the Essex Corp
When they revealed Jessica's casting I immediately thought she was Emma, was convinced even seeing her in black (emma even started wearing black in the comics) and as you've pointed out, it makes complete sense for it to be Emma. Cant wait for part 2. Btw you may get started on that longer version lol. Im pretty interested in that one too.
Reckless Pixels actually she should was supposed to be Jason wyngrade
@@srstriker6420 no! She was supposed to be the Skrull queen!
Alessio Alessi but there is that element of the comics
They were better off going with Lady Mastermind at this point!
Bryce Lennon yeah one of his daughters
This movie was a giant "Vuk you" to X-Men fans like myself. The score is probably the only redeeming thing about it
"This is Selene, the Black Queen. Though you may be taking her place soon."
That is *such* an Emma line.
This Ema Frost plan sounds very interesting
Many villians are always about controlling the world, but very few are about keeping that control in check
Seeing what is basically the 1% with a likeable yet questionable plan of keeping peace using manipulation opens a lot of ideas and arguments to talk about
That Guy Again and it is strange that Jason Wyngrade calls himself Mastermind is a bit odd because he is not a leader but a member
@@srstriker6420 I was under the impression Mastermind was a solo act before the Dark Phoenix Saga; after Jean broke his mind, he joined the Hellfire Club in part because Emma helped pull him back together. "Impression" because all I have to go on is the page or so of backstory he gives during his reveal in the Saga.
Boo Bah well he is obscured
Yes that and also *TIDDIES*
David J what
Bruh, youre rewrite is actually how i imagined Emma Frost. Man, I want an Inner Circle influenced storyline . The Gifted was the only one we got.
I love Emma frost and the Hellfire club, this rewrite fits soooooooo much better into this x-universe than aliens
Shoddy Daisy and what about Jason Wyngrade?
@@srstriker6420 I'm always into characters like Mastermind, so long as they aren't used too much. He definitely could work in this rewrite as a way of subtly manipulating Jean once she meets with the Hellfire club
Shoddy Daisy well he is the white bishop in this story and I always get confused with William Stryker’s son being Mastermind
Simon Kinberg: Tell me how to fix this, Fox! Tell me what to do!
Fox: I don't know what to do!
IDONTKNOWWHATTODO!
Lol
I know it’s not quite the same, but I’d just like to add: “Looooggann...”
We need to start a petition to get you writing for these movies. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!
I really like the conspiracy/intrigue approach. I come back to this a lot in thinking about the “how to” of superhero movies. When you a character or team with amazing powers & skills, the answer isn’t always to pair them up with their villainous equivalent. For example: the JLU season dealing with The Cadmus Project. That super team was not prepared for a completely amoral covert government program. It forced them to think strategically, rather than in terms of straightforward battle. It’s why Winter Soldier worked so well as a Captain America movie. The X-Men’s most memorable battles are often against elements of society rather than ordinary supervillains. It adds to the drama that the X-Men just want to be accepted as part of that society...
Right! This Inner Circle mutant illuminati idea fills in so many plot holes that it almost makes the craziness of the live action Xmen universe make sense. I mean with so many large scale mutant-human relations crises accumulating through the series of films you'd think that instead of only having Charles winning humanitarian awards, you'd see him struggling to fight back against the anti-mutant rhetoric out there in the world, so he shuts it out (whereas Emma Frost doesn't, which sorta proves her point and fuels her agenda). I love it.
Also i absolutely love the JLU Cadmus arc! I think that was really what first opened my eyes to the depth of superhero fiction. It's actually what i really wanted to be the multifilm background bad guys for the DCEU, sorta like Hydra was for MCU. Ugh now i just wanna talk about it but dont want this comment getting too long, lol
Well, the x men are also known for their space adventurers.
Fox: I don't give a Vuk!
Nando: That's the problem...
Long story short: The main antagonist in X-Men: First Class should have been Mr. Sinister not Sebastian Shaw. If you've ever gone down the rabbit hole of what Bryan Singer's X-Men 3 would have been then you already know that he planned on using Emma Frost as the antagonist using empathy to manipulate The Phoenix. The story was very similar to what happens in Dark Phoenix so much so that it's easy to imagine Vuk and the D'bari as Emma and the Hellfire Club. I was thinking it in the theatre as I was watching as most X-Men fans were. They miscast Emma in First Class (January Jones was not the original actress cast in the role for the record), then killed her offscreen writing themselves into a hole. There definitely should have been one or two movies before Dark Phoenix establishing relationships and the team but it ultimately should have been the Hellfire Club vs. Lilandra (Jessica Chastain) and the Shi'ar vs. the X-Men fighting over Jean; the Hellfire Club wanting to harness the Phoenix Force, the Shi'ar wanting to destroy it and the X-Men trying to save Jean. Fox blew the story twice so I doubt we'll ever see another live action Dark Phoenix saga in our lifetime.
They also killed off Nightcrawler's dad
4:41 Another reason why it doesn't matter that Magneto said Emma was dead, he also said Angel was dead in that scene but Angel was inexplicably alive in X-Men: Apocalypse.
If this is a joke, then haha
If not, those are different Angels
@@dohavename6775 Are they different? How? Wasn't there only ever just the one Angel, but the timeline changes caused him to be born way earlier than he was in the original series?
@@nyrotike8153 Angel from First class is a fire-spitting lady with dragon-fly wings. Her alternate name in comics is Tempest. The one you know is a blonde dude with bird wings. They just happen to share an alias, since the guy, who was born later, didn't know the lady, even tho name suits him better.
@@dohavename6775 Ah, I see. I completely forgot she existed, to be honest.
Don't forget Angel Dust in Deadpool...
Jessica Chastain as Emma Frost would be perfect casting imo
"It would be kinda like you just make Man of Steel, and then go straight to Batman v Superman" oh... wait...
I was gonna make that same comparison. Also, nice last name.
@@jonathanfranco8547 thank you brother😉🤙🏾
Sophie Turner was potentially AMAZING casting for Jean Grey and it's a real pity she didn't get better movies.
YES! Agree! “Why isn’t this Emma Frost?” My EXACT thoughts!
Emma Frost is awesome. I even have the old comics of hers. She's been such a missed opportunity. Selene, happy to hear about her being mentioned.
I genuinely enjoyed Dark Phoenix, and I accepted I'm one of two people who did (the second being the friend who watched it with me in the theater), but this change really elevates the movie for me, and it's a pretty simple change. Can't wait for the second video.
you two aren't the only one fella
When are you going to rewrite Shrek 3?
Yung CheeZy also when is he finishing the Defenders rewrite and a Spider-Verse rewrite
Just delete it and put a baby montage at the beginning of 4.
Oh wait
@@srstriker6420 Spider-verse doesn't need any rewrite.
discipleofsakura now I know he can do it
cant change perfection
I gotta admit, when I saw the trailers, I thought Vuk WAS Emma Frost
Scott Korin or Jason Wyngrade
I've been kicking around ideas to "fix" Dark Phoenix as well, and we definitely have some common ground there. My main thrust was similar, but I was going to replace Vuk with Selene, leading a revived Hellfire Club, and that's who Chastain would be playing. But the scenes you outlined were so perfect, I'm warming up to bringing back Emma. However, I would bring back January (I'm a softie and think she deserves another shot), while Chastain would still be Selene.
Emma is actually my favorite X-Man. Super interesting as a redeemed hero. As a villain she was kinda..... eh..... for me.
Her best form is as an antagonist though, thr villain schtik doesn't work for her
Your story makes more sense! Now I wish that was the movie instead of what we saw.
It’s like going from Avengers to Civil War
Or BVS to Justice League
Patrick Mike huh
Or Man of Steel to BvS
Doomerang some parts yeah
They might as well go from Avengers to Civil War because Captain America and Iron Man were already fighting each other even before we got to Civil War.
loudboy317 yeah so?
I love that he made us think he was going to end with just placing Emma but did a complete 180 and continued the video by telling the story of Dark Phoenix with Emma in it.
I absolutely love this and totally thought the same thing. Emma Frost would have made a lot more sense & could have motivated Jean a lot more organically. It would have been nice for January Jones to get a meatier role and it would make perfect sense that she could have faked her death - a lot more sense than her actually dying, tbh. Loved the conversation on telepathy, beautifully written.
That was the plan for this movie (and X3) but budget cuts happened.
Nah Jessica is a much better actor. Plus you could always say she changed her face to escape authorities
"Emma Frost is awesome." Yes, yes she is. Would've loved to have seen her in the movie.
Not to dump on Jessica Chastain, I like her in other stuff, but I absolutely did NOT like her in this.
If neither if the actors who played emma previously chastain would have been a fantastic choice, I'm so hurt that they wasted her
Instead of the inner circle, it should be called "the board" or something like a board of directors or something like that but it relates to chess.
love the video as usual, but noice choice in music. i didnt even realize it was playing for so long. it just blended and worked with the video and your voiceover.
The one thing the Dark Phoenix movies are missing is The Dark Pheonix. Make the white haired alien the Dark Phoenix entity as a personality.
Would've been cool if they revealed Azazel survived and had a child with Mystique: Kurt. Would've gave him a stake in the conflict too after learning his mother was killed by one of his best friends.
"The franchise ended with Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix"
Logan: "am I a joke to you, bub?"
No.
Great edit, during all the trailers I always assumed it was Emma Frost.
Also it’s weird to me that Emma’s clothes seemingly disappear when she turns diamond in First Class
19:05 I think that is why they didn't use her.
Why did they need a villain? Because movies have villains? Because Jean needed a place to go to after going to Erick? Because they wanted a big fight at the end? Yeah, Vuk has no Pathos, you can remove her and all the emotion of the movie is still there. She is there for the final fight.
You had me 100% as soon as you put my girl Sage in. Most underrated X-Men character and I need more of her.
They really dropped the ball with emma especially in regards to scott and jean and that whole hoolabaloo. I adore jean grey, even have a tattoo of rachel greys phoenix symbol on my ribcage BUT emma is so so so badass
I honestly thought Vuk was Mr. Sinister in female form until the alien thing was revealed. Mr. Sinister is pretty cool, so I never understood why they slept on him. At least now Marvel can hopefully use him in the future whenever X-men stuff comes into play.
In the comics, the D'bari are one of the many races whose planet was destroyed by the Phoenix Force but other than that, they seem really different to what we saw in the movie. I mean Vuk's claim to fame seems to be that one time he(yes, he) turned most of the Avengers to stone. So...why use them in the first place? If they're going to be so significantly changed, why not any of the other hordes of alien races that have closer ties to the X-Men if they wanted to go the whole alien route?
Thank you for this series. I really really tried to like the dark phoenix because I do like the actors and setting. But it wasted a lot of potential, which you are now working on showing! 😍
“It hurt me that my favorite franchise ended with apocalypse and dark phoenix”
Logan: am I a joke to you?
No one:
Nando: not to nitpick...
*Proceeds to nitpick...
Idk how you do it but whenever you propose some small changement like that it always sounds so amazing. Emma Frost as a villain sounds just so cool ? I wish the movie would have been like that !
I am legitimately jealous of your writing ability and creativity. Keep it up, great vids.
I was 100% more enthralled in your story in this video than I was in the movie. +1 subscriber ❤
5:36 aww missed opportunity to say "Vuk gives no Vuks about having a personality"
Why does everyone skip the whole Phoenix M’Kraan crystal saga and go straight to Dark Phoenix? There is a whole saga that occurs with Phoenix before you even get to the evil part. You cannot do Dark Phoenix without the Phoenix Saga and without a trilogy of non-Phoenix movies to build the relationships with Jean and the x-men. It’s like skipping from Ironman to Endgame.
Mark A thank you. I’d be perfectly happy with the Phoenix coming from the M’kran crystal to make things easier (let’s say it’s the guardian of crystal for example). So tired of them making Jean thefocus AND way more powerful than Jean without Phoenix is or make Jean a super strong telepath.
Would’ve been great to see a young Emma and Jean become friends and Emma ultimately exploit that later on. I’d love to know Emma as a teen/younger woman
Believe it or not, but Simon Kinberg's original plan was to make 2 movies. 1st film would've covered the M'Krann crystal/Phoenix saga while the 2nd film is the Dark Phoenix film that we know. Due to FOX's inevitable merger with Disney, Simon wasn't allowed to proceed with this plan and was forced to film only Dark Phoenix as the final installment.
Wow! Your reasoning for the secondary mutation is pretty awesome! Similar to how in Naruto, the Mangekyou Sharingan is different for each Uchiha because it's a manifestation of their inner pain and struggle
Emma didn't have her secondary mutation during the time of The Phoenix Saga (the first story). Or, even if you keep her into the Dark Phoenix Saga. Also, her powers weren't (at the time) on the level of the Professor or Jean. Neither were Masterminds. But, he was using a device to boost them. And space is very important to both stories. Space is where we encounter the Phoenix Force for the first time. It's in space that Phoenix commits her great crime of murdering an entire planet. The real problem of these two tellings of these two Sagas; is the fact that they are Sagas; and they're trying to force these two epics into a singular movies that tells one story.
When I saw the alien headquarters in NY the first time I saw the movie, I audibly gasped because I automatically thought it WAS the Hellfire Club and things were about to get awesome.... then I remembered that they'd already died
I know a lot people didn’t like Jones as this role but I actually loved her!
Same i thought she was great, looked great too
This "small" change already makes the movie 100 times better. I would've gone for Psylocke as one of the knights instead of Spitfire though
I definitely thought Poochy’s inclusion in Days of Future Past was the highlight of that movie. Thank you for acknowledging it.
Nando what weapon would you choose for the zombie apocalypse?
Shotgun-axe
Nando v Movies full on Mac enthusiast I guess.
My real issue with the film is why in 1992 is Professor X wearing a model of Rolex watch, a Milgauss 116400GV, that wasn’t designed and produced till 2007 25 years later!?!? Just another one for the X Men time continuity errors list I guess.
I'm saying this as someone who actually loves this movie, but the whole story of how Simon Kinberg wanted the Hellfire Club in The Last Stand, but then had to remove them, and then actually was going to have them be in Dark Phoenix, with Emma Frost being the main villain, but then for some reason changed it to...Vuk...with rewrites is a travesty.
To be quite frank, there was actually concept art released by someone on Instagram that showed the Hellfire Club a very comic accurate version to be precise were going to show up in X-Men: Dark Phoenix.
Plus if I were writing X-Men: Dark Phoenix I would have added the Hellfire Club and the Shi'ar Empire respectively as part of the film in the same roles they occupy in the comics that would make for a far better adaptation that we actually got.
Harris Syed and make Jason Wyngrade the main antagonist?
I love how you made both this and Apocalypse way better by one small change
I just realized Dark Phoenix is pretty much the only super hero movie I haven't seen in like 10 years. And I'm content with that.
Just because the villains were different from the original story.
One minute into the video and i'm already like, "Dark Phoenix was so bad that even Nando says he can't fix it all the way through, geez".
Well, as expected You delivered already,so part two is going to be only more improvement. Noice
Manuel González well I would asked the same for spider Verse and the 2015 fantastic four movie
Hes being modest, he could totally fix it
When I saw the trailers I assumed that it Emma Frost. Disappointed when it turned out not to be. I did kinda enjoy the film though
I am surprised and glad to hear you like the X Men so much, cant wait to see pther rewrites. Cheers mate
I need to take a tequila shot everytime Nandos says Vuk in this video🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
what frustrates me is we were SO close to getting the hellfire club and emma frost in dark phoenix but the fox/disney deal ruined it.
It wasn’t really the deal that ruined it. That happened long before Disney even knew Fox wanted to sell the studio.
I think we could easily imagine this as our head-cannon, except for the inclusion of Roberto DeCosta in the Hellfire Club. He’s a young man who ends up helping the future timeline in DOFP and gets locked up at Essex Corps. in The New Mutants
Funny I ran across this video because I saw on comicbookmovie.com a new version of the Hellfire Club was going to be in this film. The members included Emma, Shinobi Shaw, Leland, Red Lotus Gang and I think someone else. However I like your fixes what I would add is they go with the ultimate storyline and that Jean is the host for the Phoenix god that has risen over the millennia in a certain telepath. Thus they could’ve introduced the Church of Shi’ar, Lilandra and a few members of the Imperial Guard.
Thoughts on Jonathan Hickman’s Xmen
Love it so far. I'm up to date as of today.
Im such a Mando fanboy right now id probably vote you into office
Not using the White Queen angle is a complete loss on the part of Fox.
I'm not even halfway done with this video and you ALREADY perfected the movie for me 🤣 very well done mate
Emma Frost is definitely the arch-nemesis of Jean Grey
Agree, she could even be proVUKative with Scott to trigger Jean, but it'd be more believable if she was closer to her age I suppose.
Robert Angus but what about Mr Sinister?
I would have liked to see the original final battle before it underwent heavy reshoots
Gag idea:
Vuk is talking with someone who speaks in simple, broken english (Think Caveman speak)
Vuk: My name is Vuk
Caveman: Vuk..........You?
They kept the Vuk character's identity secret before the movie. When I saw the trailers and saw Vuk, I thought that the Vuk was actually going to be Emma Frost. That made me really excited because I like the White Queen character too. I also love the Selene character. So I was really disappointed with her portrayal in this movie. I really like your retelling.
Your Fat Thor recap was not only hilarious but a great way to argue that Dark Phoenix and Thor 2 being the same movie
16:49 u could have them playing chess and her noding to her queen chess piece saying its a higher power because of well its power{kinda like that}u could say she invites her to play chess to almost clear her mind or get her mind off of wat happend making her focus on their conversation more intensly
I never saw this movie, so this whole time I legit just thought that Jessica Chastain was meant to be Lilandra.
Originally she was.
Nando: If you wanted a big change...
Me: Yep. Big change.
When I saw the trailer I legitimately thought that Vuk was Emma Frost.
this was phenomenal, i’ve been waiting for the video for so long 🥺
I so badly wanted Dark Phoenix to be a good movie. I seriously think you version would’ve made the movie a whole lot better. Can’t wait for Part 2!
THANK YOU!
I’ve only been saying this for years!!
Have I told you that I really love your work? Yup. But I REALLY LOVE YOUR WORK! Great ideas - though I think we can do better than JC on the casting for Emma Frost. Can't wait for part II.
I would truly say, that fixes the whole series. #rescept
How about a Dark Phoenix rewrite? - Dave Sandberg
Man... I can't keep watching your videos. They just make me lament that your version won't ever exist, and it would be awesome if they could.
I know it probably doesn’t matter because it wasn’t in the final cut, but regarding the whole no one seems to care about aliens being on Earth thing, in the original third act, Phoenix, Cyclops and Professor X going to the UN to warn them, and the final battle happens there, instead of on the train
Jessica Chastain's performance being flat isn't her fault. She did whatever was told her. Otherwise, we ALLLL know how great of an actor she is.
So… are we gonna discuss that in fact it's not the queens, kings, bishops or knights controlling the chess board, it's the player? Insert x-files theme here as we search for the player that owns the Hellfire club like a glorious hand-picked set of priceless chess pieces.
Also we've been saying "THIS SHOULD'VE BEEN EMMA" without even seeing the movie. They disposed of Hellfire club way to early, way to easy, and in a way too contrived manner. They seriously said that among two fliers, a teleporter, a walking hurricane, a telepathic diamond, and a shapeshifter - the shapeshifter was the only one to survive an ambush? The teleporter, the telepath, and the hurricane. Yeah. These three are specifically wide-range, all adult, in perfect control of their powers and top shape, specifically radical towards human society...
Awesome video and awesome cliffhanger, can't wait for the second part
Aw Vuk me man, these isn't what the extrodinary X-Men deserved. There is so much potential there. Imagine getting to the Krakoa and the mutants fighting for their survival. Oh well.
So you're essentially recounting the basic first leg of the Phoenix Saga in the comics when Jean is being manipulated by the Hellfire Club. And you're right. That would've been a better movie
That was the original plan. There is even concept art of the Hellfire Club.
Imho frost and hellfire makes sense ... that and not aging up the series by decades as hellfire already exists in the past it doesnt need to jump forward in time and easily explains the lack of aging.
Your dialogue may benefit from a few rewrites (faked my death for one, as it could be implied more subtly) but Selene's roll.... I'm listening.
1:20 "It's like making the avengers and skipping right to civil war"
Or like, starting your team up franchise with a bastardized "the dark knight returns"