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Do Graphite Shafts Cause Fliers? // Faldo Comments on Bryson's Wedge Play
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2024
- Testing the theory mentioned by Nick Faldo during the Rocket Mortgage Classic that Bryson DeChambeau was getting inconsistent wedge yardages due to using graphite shafts.
0:00 Intro
3:58 Testing in irons
7:42 Testing in wedges
10:55 Results
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Filmed at: Tour Experience Golf
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Heard the comment in the broadcast and thought to myself "that just can't be true." Then woke up to TXG proving it isn't. Well done gents.
When it's a technical golf point by Faldo we already knew it wasn't true lol.
The same Nick Faldo that along with Dave Willetts were responsible for Mizuno making some of the greatest irons of all time?
Most of Faldo's technology knowledge is now 30 years outdated. He hasn't kept up with it because he's a traditionalist, which is fine, but then he should refrain from commenting on it. I was half expecting him to blame that newfangled Titanium stuff whenever a guy drove it into the rough.
Recycling criticisms of graphite from the 1980s when materials & production techniques have totally changed just makes him sound like a dinasour.
Ok, confirmed. Matty is now officially a robot :D
"And when he gets it, everyone else is screwed" Brilliant and spot on!!! Love the straight forward comparison. Excellent review and the presentation of data over gut feeling. Again, as always, great stuff.
"And when he gets it everyone else is screwed"......I have a feeling a lot of the current tour players are saying something very similar. :-) Another great video gents. Thank for all the content.
I dunno, there is more to being a winner than just pounding the ball far.
Arkslippy hence the discussion of wedge play...
AGV!!
@@Arkslippy Kind of the point of the video.... "when he gets it" is referring to his wedge play... He's already pounding it really far... if he ever 'gets' his wedge play dialed in...
TXG is the smartest Golf channel on YT. Simple testing of many different things, with heavy consideration for all the variables.
I dunno about anyone else but from 8:48 until 10:54 that was just hypnotic...until Ian brings us out of the trance with "Alright Matty boi...". It was the methodical repeat of RIIIP [BOUNCE, Bounce, bounce], RIIIP [BOUNCE, Bounce, bounce] that did it. Thanks for looking out for us with this video gents. JT
hahha oh my word, my comment has now sparked a whole video??? You guys are legends... Just straight facts, no bias or emotions. Love it lads.
Oh Faldo... so old school. Thanks guys for responding to that with this video. Great work and keep it up gents!
Faldo - Graphite gives fliers..
TXG - Hold our beers....😁
How many majors has TXG won?
@@snakepliskin1185 How many fittings with modern equipment has Faldo done? The data always tells the truth.....
@@DavidGrieshaber Ask him. The data needs to be 100% accurate first. Otherwise it's garbage in, garbage out.
I still think Faldo is right, because this is a test on a clean lie. Do the same test in the semi, standard and tough rough and you will probably see some shocking results. I remember trying this 20 years ago with graphite, and I remember that the biggest difference was from the rough. Yes technology has changed. But the fact that the shaft are about 1/3 - ½ the weight can seriously be a problem with direction and distance control from the rough.
Great job! I have been using graphite shaft in my irons and wedges since the early 90's due to a wrist injury. The quality of the shafts has definitely improved over the years. The graphite shafts today are just as good as steel shafts. I have been using the UST Recoil 95 F4 shaft since them came out. Love this shaft!!! I am 62 years old and shot my age this year using them! I currently play Srixon Z Forged irons and Vokey wedges. Nothing feels better than a forged head with a graphite shaft!!
Agree, the graphite takes the shock reverb out that you get when hitting shots with an iron shaft.
Playing Z Forged with Aerotech FC115s and broke 70 for the first time about a month ago. Have since broken 70 2 more times in the past few weeks. I’m still playing steel in the wedges but may do some testing soon.
62! How did you do on the back 9?
The irony of tuning into probably the most advanced golf tech channel on YT, is when YT loads a Square Strike ad with an oompa loompa "just putting it baby"
The perfect timing 🤣🤣🤣 I just got fitted for KZG Clubs, and ended up with graphite shafts, so this video is perfect 😁
Seriously. Surely a flyer relates to the physical outdoor “real world” condition. Grass/water or other between the ball and the club-face influences the physical dynamics of the otherwise “closed loop” interface between ball and club-face which generates a less than predictable outcome. Reading and understanding the lie is equally a skill as hitting the ball with speed and accuracy....great video 👍🏼 😁
100% agreeing with you, i was thinking exactly the same :))
Played Project X 6.5 for 2 years. Switched and fitted into to Accra 124 graphite shafts a year ago. My feelings going back to steel shafts, feelings may be subjective, but for me it was horrible. Felt harsh. And graphite felt better for my hands and arms. Performance wise, I gained more consistency. It’s worth a try. I always tell my golf buddies, don’t knock it until you try it!
Been spending the last couple weeks going through all your content. Absolutely love the channel. Appreciate all the expertise you share.
So glad people are starting to come round to graphite. I truly believe it is the way forward for many amateur golfers! 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
I could just listen to the audio of Matt hitting wedges all day. great video
Ditto
Ian / matty , you boys disproved this whole graphite debate ages ago , the best explanation possible , the graphite now and the infinite possibilities of weight and profile , and how they can make any part of the shaft thicker thinner ,stiffer softer . It’s just impossible with steel , wall thickness ,weight goes hand in hand with steel , hoop strength goes hand in hand with wall thickness , graphite is here to stay and I can see it taking over as did the driver shafts , can you even find a steel driving shaft now .? I have kbs tour , project x , design running x 100s , in irons ,shit I’ve tried many others and my gamers are steelfibers i95 although not totally graphite they are still graphite with fine steel thread wrapped around them , basically graphite , and these are the tightest dispersion shafts I’ve tried , both in distance and offline , I can’t see myself going back these are doing what I need , these are in miura blades heads . Ian said it graphite is the future of shafts in irons . There’s no denying it look at this auto shaft you just did from Korea , we don’t have any real information on it , but it defies logic , it feels soft , which at matty speed should be spraying everywhere , yet it was firm through impact , I’ve not seen so many dead centered shots on the face , and it just bombed , with a decent flight and hardly any shape , unbelievable , sir Nick always got something to say ,no doubting the mans accomplishments but he played a different game , the equipment now is nothing like what he used competing , they are always going to try and explain from there experiences , ie , fliers , Bryson just hasn’t dialed his wedges yet , and when he does he will be hard to beat , with length, and putting on fire . Great video guys , you guys are the foremost technical specialists and that’s why we listen , the content is always great , you explain simply for the plebs , we don’t want or understand sales pitch performance stories , we understand our Canadian Irishman . Seeing is believing and you guys nail it every time . Thanks guys .
This is awesome to get a response so quickly concerning a discussion/ topic from the tournament this weekend. Love the vids guys!
Thanks for making this video so quickly and responding to misinformation spread by the golf media
Great stuff guys. Can't wait till you get 100K subs, if anybody deserves it its this channel right here.
We all have our eye on the counter in the background.
Great job guys. Bryson has his hands full, leaving himself shorter shots and continuing to swing faster with the other clubs. I think the toughest part is also the length of his wedges too, they are much longer than standard as well! As Matty said, if he gets it everyone else is screwed....!
I use the single length wedges and its actually the reverse. A single length wedge is far easier to hit than its variable counterpart if you’re someone who uses Single Length. His main problem is most likely with distance control. He needs to get his 9, 10, and 11 o’clock shots dialed in, which is fairly simple...because its a matter of practice. He keeps hitting it too far most likely, because he’s still getting used to his new distances and needs to understand what his soft (insert club name here) distance gets him. It’s obviously further than he thinks.’
Great video as always! I didn't hear what Faldo said but having played this game a long time, I had the same misconceptions until I demo'd a pair of Hogan Equalizers with Recoil 780 F4 S shafts (being demo clubs, everything was standard). I took them to the course for a round but I didn't feel very confident, I almost put them back in the car before the round but since I didn't want to trek it back, I said the 'heck with it'... It was the most surprising feeling I have ever experienced, with every strike, it felt 'supple' it wasn't harsh like my current set with KBS 90s. I had no distance control issues and never a flier off the fairway. When the ball was sitting down in the rough, I didn't think the shaft could possibly help me in that situation but I was proven wrong again. I really hated sending them back. I would have NEVER considered graphite shafts in wedges before that experience but I'm convinced that it is what I need!
Faldo is the Uncle that has done, seen and knows everything. And speaks in absolutes. Its best just to give him a beer and let him talk rather then hear the old quote "back in my days"
If you guys want years of content, just start doing a weekly series on what Faldo gets wrong during telecasts. I don't hate the guy but this was one of interesting opinions I have heard.
Great analysis! Can you do a comparison on distance dispersion between super game improvement irons such as Titleist AP1 vs blades? Some people claim that SGI irons tend to have larger dispersions. Thanks.
As soon as I heard Faldo's comment I wanted to know what you guys thought. It appears that I am not the only one. Thanks for providing us with the facts!
TXG Mythbusters - let's see if Bryson's people will forward you a signed club for the wall.
I agree with Matty..25 years ago I played a 125gram tour weight graphite and I did get the occasional flyer on a really good strike. I’m playing graphite again and I’m not noticing the “fairway flyer”. Great test guys!
It's like watching an "Iron Byron" machine! Good job Matt!
Jeffrey Love I was thinking the exact same thing... and there’s no myth busted without all those perfectly repeated swings
Can’t start the day without TXG. I figured this video was coming. Well done guys. I figured the graphite might fly further if anything. I was surprised by the fact that it flew the same as steel and it had more spin. The standard deviation wasn’t a surprise. Graphite shafts have greatly improved over the years. They get such a bad rep. I use to feel I got more spinners than anything back when I had a set.
If you guys feel the need to make a video every time Faldo says something dumb you're going to be quite busy 🤣
It's just Sir Nick staying relevant...
5 majors dumb..mate..
At least we don’t have Johnny Miller anymore.
This aged well
Heard him say it live and started the countdown in my head to this video coming out. Didn't have a prejudgment on the result, just wanted to see it and as always, you guys presented it in a scientific manner. Thank you.
I have loved Bryson for a few years now so I'm enjoying the conversation
As soon as I heard Faldo I knew a video was coming lol. Knew the Txg lads would prove otherwise
When your one length wedge is 2.5" longer than standard, there a 2 key issues to address as the club is coming shallower through the ball.
1. Change in contact angle and hence COG path through the ball.
2. From the rough, club spends more time moving through grass so increasing chance of collecting debris.
Both likely to bring inconsistencies in strike and spin.
Moved from Steelfiber i80 to Nippon Zelos 80 - improved feel and got my 7 iron back to 150 yes. Love lightweight steel.
Alright Matty, colour me jealous. The swing is on-point. Smooth, effortless power and so consistent. Another great video and test.
a test of single length wedges and variable length would show a lot about how he could potentially improve
Bryson has won 6 PGA events and two major amateur events using single length wedges. Pretty sure his recent muscle mass gain is to blame.
@@markpogson3799
I think you're right....still might be a good test for how it affects the average golfer.
His wedge play by the numbers is bad compared to other PGA players. Would love to see data on standard wedge length and Bryson’s.
He streams himself playing video games and I've watched him a few times. He talks about how he hasn't been out on the chipping green in a long time. He's spend his time on his simulator working on driver and then putting. So it's more of a practice problem then an equipment problem. I've played single length wedges for 4 years and my wedge play is actually significantly better than it was with conventional length.
@seewill90 seewill90
He's number 7 in the world, and climbing.
You guys hit the nail on the head. It’s not the graphite shaft. His recent workout regimen helps him to hit it a country mile and not to finesse his wedges to perfection although he will most likely work on that ... if his wedge play is shaky and he is still winning then something is working
Great in depth analysis gents, thanks for the valuable info. Matt, fantastic consistency with the swings! 👏
Well thanks a lot Human Iron Byron! So what you are telling me is my poor wedge shots have nothing to do with the graphite shafts? Dang, I’m going to need to find a new excuse for my terrible scores. 🤣 Just kidding, another great video guys. Keep it up!
Graphite shaft flex changes a bit with air temp - but in the opposite way to help the golfer. Slightly softer in cold weather when you wear some restrictive clothing layers and stiffer in hot weather when you are looser/faster would be a good thing.
So satisfying to see that ball end up directly on the center line.
Bryson is quite the tinkerer so I’m sure this wont be the last video in reference to him either. Always interesting. Keep it up guys.
I've been in the market to buy the new Callaway Jaws wedge and have been fighting myself over steel vs graphite for the reasons Faldo was bringing up. With the old body of a 67 year old guy I prefer graphite. Thanks for clearing this debate up with facts. I'm buying the graphite. Thanks.
What incredible striking! Just brilliant. Fantastic work Dirty Dog!
As a Professional Clubfitter with more than 30 years experience and thousands of clients served, including scores of club pros and touring pros, I can say with virtually 100% assurance that the shafts do not cause "fliers". Grass trapped between the clubface and ball at impact -- particularly wet grass -- and grass that has grain growing in the direction of the club path is what causes the dreaded "flier", and it doesn't matter what shaft is in the club.
Great video guys, thanks for the content! I wish there was a "mute Nick Faldo" button during the broadcast.
One person that I wish you guys could talk to is David Graham, the Aussie great. He always had a reputation as someone who knew a lot about club design and performance.He was very close to Jack Nicklaus and eventually worked up the nerve to give Jack feedback and advice about clubs. I don’t think Jack was into equipment at all.
Faldo seems that way.
I'm pretty sure most of us would love to see a breakdown of Matty Boi's swing. His consistency & power is quite unreal. Also his lag angle seems to never decrease less than 90 degrees at the top of the back swing but still creates tons of club head speed. Would be an awesome video.
I think 90 is pretty standard for a flat lead wrist.
That was awesome! Shortly, I'll be replacing my wedges and this information is a great help to me!! Thank you!
I think your test was not accurate in representing what Faldo was talking about. First the 6iron has nothing to do with anything. The issue was wedge distance control. Not regular distance swinging but when you have to take something off or add a bit to hit the number you are trying for. I don’t know if what Faldo said is true or not, but I don’t think your “test” is a fair representation of the point being made.
Out of interest, why do you think that there would be any difference with a partial shot?
Bradley Peyton I don’t know that there would be, but that is what Faldo was referencing. That is why I don’t think their test refuted anything Faldo said. Just a statement from me. I love these guys because I fully believe them. I fully believe them because their data proves the final point. This video didn’t do that in my opinion.
Great thanks! I will go for graphite it my new irons.
Golf announcers like to say a LOT of things that make any serious golfer go .... "wait wut?!?!" Would be great to see more videos like this that dispel long-standing myths that keep getting put out into the public view.
Bryson said on his Twitch stream yesterday that he's just never been a great wedge player, even when he did have standard length clubs. He'll just put more work into them, simple as
I love when tour players admit shortcomings in their game. "Like hey I struggle with this part of my job, but I'm going to work my ass off nail it down, because it literally is what puts large amounts of food on the table."
Guys
Really interesting as ever.
I have swapped to graphite this year.
The difference I have found is chips and pitch's.
The graphite feels floppy compared to steel, however that maybe a result of stiffness and weight?
I do think commentators have to say something.
Bryson has been ridiculed a bit like Mo Norman.
They don't conform to the norm.
The fact he has won again freaks them out.
But if Nick went back and listened to the comments when he bulked out and changed, I bet similar comments would have been made until he started nailing the majors.
In the immortal words of Alex Hay on describing Eamon Darcy, "its a swing all of his own, but it works for him!"
I saw it and completely agree. Graphite wiggles inconsistently on irons.
Best in the business boys! Amazing content like always!
Really glad you guys did this.
Had a custom iron fit and used the Mizuno DNA optimizer for recommendations. Tested all the steel options but the graphite Recoil shafts performed the best with my swing and absolutely no fliers in testing. I gained more clubhead speed and still had tons of feel going with mizuno. Faldo def stuck in an older generation where graphite was new and untested.
As an aside... Both of you strike it so cleanly in the sim. I would really enjoy a vlog comparing shots in a round to sim. for example, load a GTA course into Quad, then go play it?
Yet again, knowledge and understanding + testing vs perception!
Amazing insight as always!
Whew, already have ordered a Vokey 50* with an Aerotech Steelfiber shaft to match the rest of my irons, so you had me a little nervous there.
With golf being back, can y’all go back to weekly why in the bags? Really enjoy you guys breaking down what the pros play
As someone with a very descending blow with my wedges, when I tested a graphite option a few years ago, it always felt like the graphite shaft wouldn’t let me power through the turf the same way as a steel shaft. It always felt like the club head would get stuck for a split second and shut the face on me. After two weeks of hitting every sand wedge left, I went back to my DG spinner shaft and got my control back.
Just watched this - nice and informative! But can't help but wonder if Faldo was talking about from the rough though? Bryson, by being longer, will more likely be hitting wedges from longer cuts. Anyone can catch a flyer out of longer grass, I guess the question is would a graphite shaft cause that to be more frequent? I think you'd need to get a mat that's a bit hairier and try hitting shots where the ball is deep in it and then where it's sitting up more.
I saw Ian's quote in the WRX piece about his one length wedges. That would also make for an interesting video, just seeing the difference in delivery numbers and standard deviation
Ian at his best. I need to see Ian and/or Matt trying a 7 iron length sand wedge. I know there were a few edits but holy cow is Matt swing nice currently.
you guys should do a video on John Daly's swing. His body type fits most golfers lol, and he has the polar opposite build of Bryson. How did he hit the ball a country mile? Prime John Daly with modern driver tech vs Bryson who drives the ball farther?
This was neat to see. Yea....Faldo harped on it quite a bit. Matt’s point about wedge technique being slightly off due to the focus on the driver is probably the only thing lacking for Bryson. Watch out everyone!
I took it as more tounge and cheek from Faldo. He was comparing Bryson's full swing dominance to his poor wedge play and joking that Bryson will be swapping his shafts etc....and applying his science philosophy. Still love the video.
Matty, "I think he'll get it , and when he does, everyone else is SCREWED " haha love that comment 🤣😂🤣
Bryson is finding out what all of us already know. 40 to 60 yards is not an easy up and in to tucked pins. He appeared to have more issues not knowing how far is 7 and 8 iron went trying to muscle up on the par threes trying to push 7ir to 210.
Best golf content on TH-cam at the min lads 👌👍
Issue I see here is the comparison with single length is completely different. As someone who has played both edels single length offering with graphite and the cobras with steel. At the 7 iron length it was a massive difference. On paper. On trackman. We noticed the dynamic loft being impacted most by slight changes in the shaft delivering the head. I would love to see this done with single length. To be clear: I think that in a progressive set there is little to no difference and in fact may be better. However in single length your combatting significant differences in static loft on the stronger side because of the lengths. I think that Bryson will clearly dial it in, however with the adrenaline of a tournament his key will obviously be to develop a pre-determined rhythm.
I'm glad this was finally put to rest...ive started to walk courses and wanted to lighten my bag...scared to put graphite in but now I know
The new gen graphite shafts since they figured out how to manufacture in lower torque similar to irons should perform the same, since that was the last factor of similarity that was remaining. Thanks for the proof. I'm gaming the Aerotech 110 wedge shafts and Love them!
Great video guys, I recently bought a new set of irons pxg 0211’s with the Mitsubishi MMT graphite shafts in just regular flex and I love them, they feel great only clubs lefts in steel are my sand and lob wedges and I will probably go graphite on those when it’s time to replace them
If its any help, i just got fitted for jpx and ordered the gw and lw, i got recoil graphite, i was debating steel in the wedges and after 3 shots with the graphite i ordered them straight away. The turf interaction feel in the hands is amazing on wedges.
I tried graphite shafts on wedges before and I struggled with those half, 3/4 shots for distance judgement on them. Full shots are ok. I’m back to steel shafts and happier now
i think faldo’s comment had some merit 10-15 years ago. but modern graphite is so good. more can be done with graphite with stiffness/feel/weight than can be done with steel, and in a very consistent package. great video. faldo needs to do his homework next time.
Looking forward to next weeks Fantastic Faldoisum's.....))
I think Bryson was hitting a 9 iron at that point. He hit it over the green and complained to his caddy "why am I hitting these so far?" Faldo and crew started talking about steel shafts and not changing once you get one you like back in the day.
I'm with yall, think he is just working thru a smoother iron swing for consistent distance while also going hard off the tee.
Well done, very concise and to the point. Thanks.
I think Bryson's lack of precision with the shorter clubs and finesses shots has more to do with his new bulk more than anything else. I'm not a fan of his, but you have to give him credit where credit is due. He is the single driving force behind one length irons, he basically created a market and sustains it, who else has done that. His use of science and technology is brilliant. He bulked up and transformed his driver and swing to surpass everyone on tour by far, which gives him a huge advantage. If he ever figures out how to putt and sharpen his short game, it could lead to a couple of big years for him. If he could only stop complaining and being shocked by every shot that doesn't come off perfectly and stop getting upset by camermen that are filming him he would be truly dynamic.Getting upset about a cameraman capturing your bad behavior and bad language is simply passing the blame. If you don't want to be filmed acting like a spoiled brat, simply conduct your self like a gentlemen. A guy with a high IQ and weak mental fortitude equals a jerk who should know better. The real question is how long can the body sustain swinging like that.
The dispersion on that batch of graphite wedge shots makes me want graphite shafts in my wedges!
Bryson shoots 66, 67, 67, 65 and wins by 3 and people in the comments are suggesting that he change his shaft type and lengths. LOL I remember DJ used to be a terrible wedge player too. Give Bryson time, he's been working hard on the long game and we see how that has gone.
As mentioned in other comments, Bryson's issue seems more related to length of wedge shafts rather than shaft material. Accuracy would probably improve with shorter wedge shafts, but require Bryson to change his swing.
Matt is an absolute machine
I think you missed the point. I believe Faldo was thinking about what would happen under competition pressure.
Here's a different test.
Hit some solid wedges, your stock shot. Then hit try to muscle up and hit it 10-20 yards farther. Do it with both clubs.
Does the graphite have a high top end if you lean on it?
Love these videos! Thanks guys!
sorry for the following ALL CAPS COMMENT, but THIS VIDEO IS SO GOOD!!!
I get a chuckle out of your patrons here giving Sir Nick a bit of a Bashing. He was only World golf #1 for 90+ weeks 41 wins and 6 majors, but I'm sure he no idea what he is talking about :)
That aside, isn't a flyer more of a product of lie conditions and the inability to produce clean contact, such as moisture or grass between club and ball?
I could be way off basis here, but this test felt odd to me being as there isn't really a flyer condition off a matt.
Ricki Fowler’s crazy downswing on his driver, Matthew Wolfe’s insane swing, Mickelson hitting it out of bounds and then back onto the green...these don’t work for most people, but these pros and many other have won multiple times with ways that others are not successful at.
What works for you doesn’t always work for someone else. And vice versa
Add Dustin Johnson's move. The average golfer would hit themselves in the leg. No one should be trying that amount of wrist flexion/extension change through the swing but if I were his coach, I wouldn't tell him to change it. What matters is that it's comfortable for him & HIS body can do it.
I use graphite shafts on both sets of irons, MMT and I-Series.. sometimes I get comments on why I use them, I’m “too young” to use them. Lol I see some older folks with slower swing speed using stiffer or heavier shafts than me. And some don’t want to transition to softer and lighter shafts - “macho man savage” syndrome I guess..
TXG proving that golf announcers still need to learn that they don't know much about these things :)
As others have suggested, do you think Bryce's wedge play 'inconsistency' (I use inverted commas because, let's face it, who of us wouldn't give our left one for his consistency) has anything to do with the one-length clubs? I quite like the concept behind one-length but have always suspected it could cause issues at the wedge end of the bag.
we've always known that any good/bad shot is almost always down to the technique rather than the equipment so there's no surprise here
Although this does not follow the same concept as the video, but it would be interesting to see how Bryson would perform with switching out a wedge or two with a shorter shaft. I understand the whole concept of one length shafts and it makes sense to me; however, Bryson just looks uncomfortable hitting pitch shots and less than full swing wedge shots. I feel like a shorter shaft in a wedge or two would help combat that problem, especially with someone who has his distance with his short irons. What do you guys think? I may b way off about this but just a thought.
I could watch Matty Boy swing all day. What smoothness and speed!!