Push/Fold Poker Quiz: ICM vs. Chip EV Part 2/2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2018
- Make sure that you watch Part 1 first: • Push/Fold Poker Quiz: ...
For more exploration like this, grab your copy of the Final Tables Workbook: www.splitsuit.com/tournament-...
Ben Hayles continues his exploration of the Push/Fold quiz. You'll get complete answers for the last 5 questions of the quiz, along with in-depth commentary on ChipEV and ICM-pressure in these winrate creating spots. These hands include:
A CO jam with A2o
A CO mash with QJs
And UTG shove with A9s
An MP1 rip with A8o
And a SB spot with 87o
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Ben Hayles' site: www.postfloppoker.com/
Ben Hayles' podcast: www.postfloppoker.com/poker-p...
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SnapShove: www.snapshove.com/
HRC: www.holdemresources.net/
How To Use HRC: • How To Use HRC (Holdem...
Would you consider doing a video similar to this, but with calling ranges?
These two videos (and the quiz) came just when I needed them. Thanks so much and keep up the good work!
Cheers Jojac!
Wow I never realized the final table caused you to open shove way tighter!I was always shoving way wider because if they consider ICM they will be folding a lot! That’s always the advice I see on forums and other videos “put max pressure on opponents”. Cool I love to see the standard “advice” being blown out of the water with hard facts!!!
I really like this style of video as it forces us to see how we would react before seeing the mathematically correct answer. It would be interesting to do a similar one for non-short stack play. For example looking at exerting ICM pressure as a chip leader
I'm so glad you liked it Glen! And duelly noted on that kind of quiz =)
You are Bestttttt
When I become the short stack of the table, like in the KJ hand from UTG+1, I tend to take on a bit of a “do or die” mentality. The reason is, I don’t want to get blinded down to a stack size, where my only goal is to try to outlast someone else to level up another place. At the stakes I play, that is simply not worth my time or energy.
So when I look at the KJ from UTG+1, I look at a situation, where I know, that if I dont shove this hand, then I am going to have to shove or call one of the next 3. And who say, any of them are going to be in better shape than the KJ. So lets just do it now, and if I happen to run into someone with a big hand and lose the flip, so be it. At least my job is then done, and I can go and do something else instead.
fundiver198 agree. Its hard to get away from KJ since its the top 20% of our range and if we fold and dont hit a better hand in the next 5-10 hands we simply lose. Probably better to wait till you get a hand like KJ in mid position but i dont blame you for shoving and hoping to win the flip. 😁
The issue with waiting is, that unless you get a walk from the BB, you are then down to 5BB and change. So now you have even less fold equity, and even if you win a flip, you are still the short stack, so not much has really changed. My point was, that the ICM model only looks at dollars, it does not look at future playability or using your time and brain power in the most efficient way.
❤Very Nice!❤
'there are clear, obvious mathematical reasons for that!' well, i'm just gonna have to believe you on that xD..
So are there no scenarios that you would considering doing anything other than folding or shoving in any of these ten examples (limping)?
No that's what a noob would do
Timothy Burton I’ve seen pros limping on the button in final tables of 3 but that’s totally different scenario I suppose.
But What about 15 bb in the button facing similar stacks,AA,KK? I can see arguments for just raising there
i got every question right but it said i got 80%
Phil Heckmuth I’m so proud of you.
Wait - the chart on Q9 says that we shouldn't even be shoving JJ! I feel like you're a losing player if you do anything else.
I think Ben laid out the assumption set and reasons pretty well for that spot.