HOW MUCH POWER DOES MY 2006 PORSCHE CAYMAN 987.1 S HAVE? |
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I take my Porsche Cayman 987.1 S to @MotorsportPerformance to see what power the car has. This car is a standard Porsche Cayman S 3.4 Tiptronic from 2006. So in this video I will reveal the wheel horsepower and how much power the car has lost in its 18 years on the road. Although this is an old Porsche the result did surprise me, the car has undergone a full engine rebuild by Strasse in Leeds and then fitted with a Top Gear Switchable Exhausts so it’s safe to say I didn’t know what horsepower figure to see on the screen but the quoted manufacturer bhp figure is 295 bhp but this is at the flywheel.
The car was treated to a wheel hub dyno which is the most accurate way of testing the true BHP of a car, this is the power hitting the road and not the flywheel. As well as testing the horsepower of the car the car was monitored to make sure it was fuelling correctly and running as it should be, this is all in preparation to taking the car onto the infamous Nurburgring.
If you want to see more of the Cayman and the preparations for taking it to the Nurburgring then please make sure to like, comment and subscribe to my channel so you don’t miss a single thing!
🔵 Don't forget to click the ‘like’ button and SUBSCRIBE
/ @joetalkscars
Follow me on social media
🔵 / mrjwpenny08
🔵 / joe_talks_cars
🔵Here are some links to the fantastic gear I use to create my videos
Microphone: amzn.to/3pdBTgI
Lighting to Aux: amzn.to/3jIChDa
#joetalkscars #cayman987 #porscheowner
Thanks for watching
Joe 😊
The specs are at the crank, 295bhp.
I would expect around 250bhp at the wheels. There’s lots of factors including the dyno, some dynos read lower, some read higher.
On the engine rebuild, you wouldn’t lose 30 or 40 bhp. They also check all the parts before using them. If you’ve had new pistons and cylinder sleeves then I would still expect a good number.
Yeah I do feel it was the box letting it down. Probably little on the internet of people with 987.1 with the Tiptronic putting them on a dyno.
Yep, as other have said. Wheel HP vs Crank HP. I would say at least 20% drivetrain loss for the Tip. 295 x .8 = 235. So yours seems all ok.
Yeah it doesn’t seem bad really. Just at the time I was shocked 🤪
Hartech are superb engineers. You have a sweet sounding strong engine there. I had a rebuilt 996 C2 s they had done and it was superb
Porsche never built a 996 C2 „S“
Yeah so I think it’s the gearbox that’s let it down.
I thought that too
If you add 18% to the figure witch is typical drive train losses it comes to approx 275bhp at then crank. Not far off the 295 quoted from the factory. You only had the bottom end rebuilt not the heads, cams and exhaust, so not bad for the age of the car imo. Go to another dyno and you could easily see another 10bhp.
That’s good then really, a good service, new plugs and coils and I may make a little bit more back. Thing is, the car feels fast to me which is all that matters I guess.
Hello from Germany .. when you hit the Autobahn .. hold her on the left ... and enjoy it... there are many reasons for the lost power over the years .. starting with sparkplugs to coils and so on .. but for the age its ok...
230 at wheels though, not the same as "at the crank" 295 quoted by porsche. It's probably the tiptronic sapping the power, I'd say 250ish is where you'd expect to be at wheels with a manual. You have had a top end hartech rebuild and I know you said not a full rebuild but I know from your prev videos you had the full deal done at hartech (I.e not just half a bank or just 1 cylinder) so you should expect a healthy engine making factory levels of power, which it probably is with the gearbox out of the equation, the gearbox of course has not been rebuilt.
In conclusion I'd be happy as well, as you are too.
Yeah I do think it’s that gearbox letting it down. But like you said at the crank is what is quoted and I suppose it’s totally irrelevant as it doesn’t reach the road.
@@JoeTalksCars True, but I suppose also what the gearbox is sapping in power it makes up for in driving efficiency i.e more likely to make perfect gearchanges everytime and I you have longer ratios.
Enjoyed the recent alignment video too, very imformative and not such a "black art" as first seems.
People seem most interested in horse power numbers when torc ratio figures are far more important when deciding how fast the car is.
Yeah, I mean I normally am. This surprised me but the car still feels quick.
Probably down to the slushbox. Contrary to what you say about wear and tear, there's no reason why it shouldn't make full book power. I'm sure it's making much more power than 230hp. Just another reason to avoid the awful Tip box.
Yeah the slushmatic has let me down 🤣
As others have said, that’s at the wheels, not what is quoted by manufacturers. So its high 200’s realistically.
Yeah I mean it does feel quick. Quick enough but it’s all about the bends for me 🤣
@@JoeTalksCars indeed 👍. Are you doing Goodwood festival of speed again this year, Joe. I know it’s a bit of a trip for you. I’m kinda hoping it’s not the wash out it was last year 😂
I think when road and race had his Boxster S, he dynoed it and it was low on his as well. I think the main problem is the tiptronic is not designed or efficient on the dyno, hence the lower readings.
I dont think the car has lost power, especially for what you paid for the rebuild. I would personally look at testing the 0-60 and compare that to what Porsche and others have got with tips as well, that may give you a better understanding of the power?
That’s interesting that the Tiptronic comes out low on a dyno. Good idea! I need to get another cayman on the channel anyway
@joe Can’t see the graph properly to see the RPM values but it definitely seems to drop off quite a bit in the upper quarter of the power band. You can see the torque suddenly drop and hence the power isn’t climbing with the revs. This seems to correspond with the brake lights seen against the roller door in timing with the hub dyno braking. It works by eddy braking and measuring the force to do this and thus overcome the cars torque.
Be aware that hub dynos have lower frictional losses so everyone’s comments amount adding xbhp on to get crank BHP isn’t necessarily true, although yes your value is net not crank and your engine will be making more. The chassis dyno has more frictional losses. In other words don’t think you can just add on 50bhp to your 230 wheel value. It will be a lot less than that. However the operator should have gone through this with you and a drag factor calculated.
If you can pull some figures from the graph, look at what RPM the peek power is produced at. Porsche quote around 6250rpm is where the max power is made. After that it’s tapering off. Where was yours? If your max power was before this point I’d consider an issue at the top end either with fuelling or ignition and the engine pulling back.
So the brakes coming on ect may be a good observation! However this was my silly editing. The camera man lost the plot and filmed the floor, I had to pull the footage I have and use the audio 🤣 peak power has arrived as it should and they said the car was smooth and healthy. To be honest I was more interested to see what it had and to check all was well. I was surprised to see it so low but the Tiptronic box rob power something crazy as most have said.
After my 987 3.4 rebuild to 3.7 had a gt3 tb and topgear exhaust with 200cel cats and a custom remap and getting 355 at the wheels with valves closed and 365 at wheels with valves open
How much was it if you dont mind saying? thinking of going for a rebuild and a conversion.
Total for it was £17,229.30 including vat
This wasnt just the rebuild had a drive shaft replaced at same time and a raditor and ac condenser labour came to £5,220 + vat parts Supplied by garage came to £9,143.60 +vat that included drive shaft and ipd 82mm gt3 throttle body kit and radiator and ac condenser i supplied the top gear exhaust and 200 cell cats i think they was around £1,900 including vat
Cheers mate.
That’s great! Interesting that the valves cause a 10bhp loss with the valves shut. Thats stong figures tho, must be mega on the road.
That’s such a lot of money but what a machine you have. Probably would never sell it I guess.
Max bhp will be high in the rev .if it is low in revs theres something going on with dyno
Yeah it was over 6 if I remember correctly
I'd have liked more but it is what it is. I've always said stare wheen power & people will be surprised ;)
True! I mean it feels fast to me so I guess that’s all that matters
Too bad to hear that not much power came out, I also have a Cayman S from 2006 and have 345 hp on the dyno due to the carbon MRN intake and carnewal exhaust
If I were you, I would first check whether your coil packs have already been replaced with the better version of BERU, probably one or two of them are breaking
That’s a good shout. I’m gonna be doing a full service. The packs won’t have been done but I’m guessing they are easily swapped when I do the plugs.
Add 40-50 for flywheel BHP so it’s not far away
True:)
I have a cayman s and had a spyder exhaust and it was 306 bhp but there wer other porsche that had lower readings
That’s high! This is why I was surprised, it’s an old car but well maintained.
That’s at the wheels, always a bit less. Would be more at the flywheel I think
Yeah they thought 270-280 at the crank.
Isn’t the car Tiptronic, quoted figures are at the flywheel and you’ll lose a shit load at the wheels with the transmission.
Why is that?
Yeah it is. Looks like the Tiptronic is the problem here.
@@JoeTalksCars nope. If you take some time to understand how it works, you'll see that's definitely not the problem.
230 + 14% = 262 @ flywheel, so how much is the dyno on the conservative side and how much is father time in the differential 🤔. I don't know if the Tiptronic consumes more than a standard transmission either.
Yeah that makes it seem a little better. You are probably right about the Tiptronic box tho. Probably robs power as it does affect the mpg. Wouldn’t change it tho, love having a point and shoot car. Probably because I’m a bit lazy🤣
As others have said horsepower will be lower at the wheels than at the crank…
Yeah that’s true but I was expecting a little higher 🤣
Lol😂 Just input your hub dyno hp into a wheel hp calculator, you have 273-290hp. So funny this video
I’m aware it’s lower at the wheels but that’s a lot lower. Not sure why it’s funny but if it amused you then that’s good.
Not unexpected at all. Plus its an ancient Tiptronic slush box.
Plus whatever you lost through heating up your differential gears by virtue of the left hand wheel being static at full throttle... nasty. You have a traction control issue, or a siezed brake, or a very poorly differential!
Yeah probably.
So that was the edit. Well spotted but my camera man lost the plot and filmed the floor. I took the sound and overlayed what footage I have. Hence the sound of acceleration and the wheel not moving in time 🤣
It's probably around 290 at the crank ,and 230 at the wheels
Yeah so that’s not too bad I guess.
Was it 230 at wheels or crank as its always lower at wheels i think thry reckon you lose around 15% from crank to final drive at wheels?
It's a hub dyno so will always be at the wheels.
As mentioned before I managed to respond. It was a hub dyno. Most have said the Tiptronic will zap power.
Get a re map. Problem solved. 😂
😏 might be happening too but need a few more mods. The back box isn’t going to need it so want to get my moneys worth.
You are not a car guy and it shows.
What makes you say that? First time in 1 million views somebody has mentioned it
Sounds disappointing
Seems ok for such and old car with the slushmatic
So you changed the exhaust and didn’t remap ? Why just do half the job ? Cough up and get it finished properly.. the car needs to breath properly also so do the air filters … should’ve left std if your not doing the full job. 🤷🏻♂️
He's only done the back boxes, not the headers. The back boxes will mkae zero difference to performance and remapping for them is pointless. Changing the air filter will likewise do nothing.
Yeah it needs a remap but I was waiting for the plenum to be done and downpipes which are all planned.
☺️
Something has gone wrong with your dyno run. If you look you will see the brake lights coming on during the run and the rear left hub actually stops turning at one point.
My guess is the traction/stability was not switched off and was kicking in, giving you the incorrect results seen.
Yes I noticed that to, still on full throttle with near side rear hub stopped
So this was my editing. My camera man lost the plot and filmed the floor. Due to having one go at this I had to use what I had but wanted to share the sound. I knew a couple of people would spot it 🤣 at least there is nothing wrong with the car other than it’s a Tiptronic and that’s what’s robbed the power.
Editing🤣 had to use what I had. Camera man needs the sack 🤣
So it’s about 270bhp at the crank, 25bhp loss and that’s with the new exhaust.
Yeah seems a lot really but ah well
That's normal for a car with 295 on the crank through an automatic gearbox. Lots of losses through the Mercedes auto box. That works to 171Kw at the wheels, where I live an SLK 55 AMG made 203Kw at the wheels through a similar Mercedes auto box but a 7sp, which is a big drop from 254Kw crank, a loss of 51Kw, your car is 217Kw at the crank so a loss of 46Kw which make sense. Best bang for buck is a IPD plenum and throttle body+tune for a 987.1 which should see good gains along with a BMC filter and maybe new/cleaned injectors+ plugs?
That’s really interesting thank you! Forgot it’s the Mercedes box. Yeah so it shows they rob power, I mean I wouldn’t swap it for the easy of use but surprised how inefficient they are.
They are all the mods and maintenance I plan on the car in the coming months.
Throw a tune in there
That might be something I’m gonna do but after a few little mods 😏
20 ish percent is what you should expect as drivetrain loss for an auto box...
Yeah it’s seems ok for a slushmatic
Was always led to believe 40-50 bhp difference between crank and wheels so that would equate to 270 to 280 which i still think is good for a near 2 decade old car.sounded awesome on the dyno too😊.i think we can all get carried away with evs running nearly 2000bhp ect----this car i wil be great fun on the ring i imagine and still capable of getting you in serious trouble on the road in this country 😅. Plus even with all the work done probably stands the owner less than the cost of a replacement tesla battery 😅.
That’s a great way to look at it. The power of the new ev cars just makes you think 300 isn’t a lot. Or even 600 is seen as ok in the world on ev. This think running such “few” bhp at the wheels still keeps up with more or less everything and on the ring will feel like plenty.
Chipwizards do the remaps for Hartech on their oversized engine builds. Wheel HP will always be lower than the crank HP quoted by manufacturers but maybe take it to them and see what they can do with it. With your sports exhaust now fitted it may need the map tweaking to get the best out of it
Yeah I have thought about doing a remap but I want to add a few things on first so going to wait until those mod are done:)
230bhp??
My 08 Cayman S. Rebuilt at around 85-90k miles. With Soul performance cat back and a high flow air filter. Did 270 bhp. A few years ago.
No, whp not bhp. So same 270bhp
This what at the wheels tho, so very similar. Is yours a manual??
@@JoeTalksCars Yes, at the wheels. Yes, I 6-speed Manual