I don’t have experience with the P320, however I am an Sig Classic line and Glock armorer for LE. My department was issued the Sig P226 in 40 S&W beginning in 2013. We experienced breakages and parts failures almost immediately with these brand new expensive weapons. Over the course of the 10 years we were issued them, parts breaking was a common problem. Several of the stamped steel metal parts in particular (trigger bars, internal safety levers) were just not robust enough to reliably hold up to the battering of the 40. I find it interesting that both the Sig classics and the Glock use a more robust piston type firing pin/striker safety instead of the small tab of bent sheet metal that is used on the P320.
Edmund, this video is incredible. The thing that really showed me how safe the p320 is, given the operator doesn't negligently discharge the firearm upon reholstering, or just in general. It shows that the safety really is the brain and trigger finger of the operator.
@Joshua Bracke, At the end of the day I found this safety to be more misunderstood than anything else. I mentioned in another comment some time ago that should Sig have made the step on the striker taller or the tab on the lever thicker the "problem" would be ultimately the same. If they were an full inch tall or thick, the operator will have had to fully press the trigger all the way enough to discharge. The act of disengaging the safety (that's not meant to act as a trigger block) would have no bearing on the resulting ND. Anyway, thanks for watching (and sharing) the video!
@Osprey1994 the current theory is that by bending over something flexed, causing the trigger to be pressed. I’m not sure about specifics like if the firearm was fully seated in the holster at the time however, as you can see from the details in my video there is not much play between rest and discharge. Again, this is just a theory since proof has not truly been provided one way or the other.
@@SIGMECHANICS I wonder if that issue of the 320 going off in holsters would be mitigated or out right prevented if a trigger safety were in place, as with the Glock. The problem with the 320 trigger design is even lateral movement can pull the trigger, whereas with the Glock the center must be depressed. I still say Sig made a huge oversight with that design decision. Also not blaming the holster itself doesn't help the public perception of Sig. It doesn't inspire confidence for existing customers, that's for sure. I still think the 320 is inherently safe, but my confidence in it has been shaken not because of its design, but because it is made by US Sig. A shame, really. Maybe they'll win me back someday, but for now I'm still sticking to my Glocks for carry.
Thank you! I just started about a year back so we’re getting up there in views and subscriptions. To be frank, I never even thought it would grow to what it is now! Thanks again!
You had me sold at the beginning of the video when, with the spring disengaged, and the sear was manipulated no firing pin was exposed. But after pulling the trigger and "firing the gun, only then the firing pin was visible. Very valid. Thank you. Sig owners everywhere should be rejoicing at this wonderful and well thought out experiment of engineering of the safety features of this firearm. *Insert crowd applause gif here that I can not insert on TH-cam*
Hey @James "Buzz D Clown" R. Good to "see" you again. lol, Thanks! I just hope the video helps those that maybe didn't understand this safety mechanism as well before. No need for applause, your kind words are just as good to me, if not better!
Great video. There are two more variables to keep in mind. (1) How much free play there is between the slide and frame. (2) The full impact of a loaded and accelerated striker will likely break through the safety at a smaller travel distance than you measured, which was statically placed under gravitational force. To find out the real safety margin, you can (a) apply some downward force onto the frame to remove the free play, (b) pull the trigger with various distances such as 0.03", 0.04", 0.05" and (c) release the sear from the back to find the exact point where the impact of the striker can break though the safety ledge.
Hey @fjcruiser9911. Your thoughts on the shear strength of the striker levers tab is very interesting (I wonder if we can test that). However, like most things the chance of it happening are never zero (given many variables), but probably also too low to worry about. It would likely take a tone of force for that to occur and the spring tension wont have that strength since at full "tension" when locked with the sear, that spring is not even fully compressed. You would have to extend the striker further back than the slide cap might allow for it to be all the way compressed (Take a look at the video thumbnail picture, that spring is MAX compressed and you can see how far back the striker body is). Interestingly, I actually considered your first point when I made the video regarding the play between the slide and FCU. Hence why at one point in the video I talked about stripping all the internals to get a good view of the inside. (I wanted to explore the take up between the levers), I was going to see how that play affected the relation between the FCU and the striker levers, but all I found was that the gap between the two (when the slide and FCU were at their furthest points), was so absolutely insignificant that I didn't proceed with the demo. So to that I say, "good thinking" because I would have sworn there was more take up than there actually was. Lastly, the dropping of the striker by gravity was solely for the purpose of giving me a simplified method to read the safety levers travel distance not for anything else, but, I do see where you are coming from. This video was for discovering the parameters to disengage the safety in normal operation. What you are talking about is FAR more interesting...What are the absolute limits of the safety mechanism to the point of malfunction...I like the way you think!
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks for the explanation! To clarify, I'm not worried about shear strength or deformation of the safety lock, but my concern is that the safety lock itself is spring loaded and can move under impacting force. You measured the thickness of the safety lever ledge to be 0.033", and the amount of travel to disengage is also in the same range. Now, imagine that we only lifted it by 0.020" and the sear breaks off, hitting the safety lock edge at the lower 40% of its depth. Will the ledge on the striker push up the safety block and keep going? I guess it depends on the shape of contacting surface, which is a rounded shape if we look at microscopic scales. There may be a point where the striker can simply "lift up" the safety lever by overcoming its spring tension and keep going, while gravitational force may not be able to do so. I love your methodology of discovering the internal parameters on each component. When testing software, there are different approaches: "unit testing" and "integration testing". The former focuses on the properties of each individual design element, which is similar to what you are doing, and the latter focuses on the integrated end-to-end behavior in more realistic environments. What I'm suggesting is a more of an end-to-end integration test, where we simply pull the trigger by X" and see if it can actually block the flying striker. Even if it cannot block the striker, if it can rub on and decelerate the striker to the point where a Federal primer will not be ignited, I'd call it a success. The result in my mind is more of a 2D graph, where the X-axis is the distance of trigger pull, and Y-axis is the probability of striker passing through (or igniting a Federal primer if the sear malfunctions). The falling curve and cut-off points would show the real safety parameters of the mechanism, which probably depends on the strength of springs as well.
@fjcruiser9911, Oh I see now. That is a great idea/question. I think having the trigger consistently hold at a given distance while releasing the sear may prove difficult to reproduce consistently. However, maybe If, say we slowly added shims of known thicknesses (thickness gauge leafs?) under the safety lock tab we may be able to do this! I'm going to write it down in the list of things to test on the channel and put some thought into how the testing would look like. If you have any input let me know. You can also email me at sigmechanics@gmail.com Thanks @fjcruiser9911!
@@SIGMECHANICS That's a brilliant idea! Not only shims can make the tests more consistent, but it might actually simulate carbon/powder build ups in reality. So we'll know how dirty it needs be to compromise the safety! Will let you know if I come up with more ideas :) Keep up the great work!
@@SIGMECHANICS So I've been a Glock guy for many years and know them inside and out, but recently a friend got me into building my first P320 for fun. With your experience what would be the most common part or parts that would fail in the P320?
@Richard Harris. That's a tough one because I rip apart and re-assemble it so much (especially now with these videos). That being said, I do have experience in what parts will most likely get damaged (and lost) the fastest with heavy abuse... 1. The striker reset spring: I have crushed one and snapped another and also find they compress quite a bit over time. 2. The trigger bar spring: Its pretty damn solid but will deform over time if you're constantly pulling it out. 3. The extractor assembly: If your taking it apart (all 3 pieces) a lot it loosens the press fit between them. Now that I wrote this, I see the pattern of everything that's a spring is probably the first to either deform/loosen up or get lost on the workshop floor. The rest of the hardware is likely not going to give you a problem long term.
@@SIGMECHANICS This is a really good start for me. I really appreciate all your input and experience. I'm just getting started with the P320 phase of my life. Lol, and looking to build my spare parts list for it. Springs are definitely top on my list:) The only other thing I figured would be the striker and sear being they see most of the stress during cycling.
@@richardharris5819 In that case, maybe pick up the Gray Guys Competition Kit. The kit comes with a polished sear, polished safety lever pin, two sets of sear springs (med and competition) and a adjustable trigger. Plus, if you're looking for the stock OEM look, sell the trigger and make up some of the cost of the kit. It's a good way to have extra parts with the benefit of improved performance.
The Sig Armorer at my Club has been trying to tell this to people for years. And of course you get the usual UN-informed ridiculous comments that the 320 is unsafe. Typical internet Puppets. Thanks so much for this detailed and sophisticated information that debunks this ridiculous Myth.
@S L, Thank you! It definitely was interesting to see and establish some form of baseline to help people understand the strikers purpose when it comes to the topic.
Excellent Video! The lab style breakdown and 3D graphic diagram are very helpful as well. The SIG P320 has a nice very short trigger travel of 0.2" or a fifth of an inch. You confirmed that at .09 inches, 45% of the short total trigger travel is required to disengage the safety. I do desperately want it to be a drop safety haha I have a P229 combat that I installed the SRT in and it also requires very little movement of the safety lever to disengage the firing pin block, but the required trigger travel to lift the block is about a full inch on a DA/SA trigger lol Interestingly the SRT works by keeping the firing pin block disengaged when the slide returns to battery thus relying solely on the firing pin rebound spring to keep it from contacting the primer of the next round. Feel free to shout me out SIG daddy haha thanks for taking the time and tools to make this!
Thank you so much for your videos on the P320. it's incredible and just what I needed to understand how these internal components function and the safe-fail that's inherent.
Thank you for this video! I just bought a p320 (2019) and was having second thoughts due to the lawsuits and rumors. As an engineer, I have full confidence in this platform due to your very informative and structured video. It is all about the operator. Thanks again, I love the way this gun feels and was regretting having to take it back. Not anymore!
Thank you for the vote of confidence @Mel Bobadilla and I’m glad you enjoyed the video! The P320 is a great platform that I feel is excellent right out of the box. Those lawsuits and videos out there definitely have many people feeling the same as you though, for the most part I find the caution is misplaced today but warranted since back then it actually was a legitimate concern. So long as you’ve got the upgraded FCU, you’ll be more than happy with it!
@Deuce Deuce, it started to become clear that many people had the same question so it was only a matter of time before I did this one. You’ve been here from almost the beginning of the channel so please let me know your thoughts when you get a chance to see it.
@@SIGMECHANICS Great video. I knew how every part of the gun works except the striker safety, so It's really good to learn that. I know how every part of a Glock works too, but I still can learn a lot from Johnny Glocks (for example). I always have notifications on, so I always try to catch your videos when they come out.
Need to pan up the volume. A little bit low for a car driving, other than that I appreciate you putting the video together. I like the technical information.
@Synthgunner, Yes, I just played it and you're right. I'll re-upload again with the volume fixed. edit: This may be a TH-cam issue, the original file seems to work fine. I'll leave it up for now and see what happens. Thanks for pointing it out though!
It seems to me, all striker fired pistols incorporate a spring loaded firing pin held back by some sort of mechanical stops until the trigger is pulled. Glock does not fully compress the striker spring until the the trigger is fully pulled, and SIG uses the safety lever you so amply described. Stored energy held in place by mechanical parts, good mechanical parts, but still a source of failure. The rather elegant solution is called the SIG P250 with its smooth double action trigger that requres the shooter to provide the energy to fire the round. Its a shame this firearm never acheived the popularity it deserved.
You are absolutely right about the P250 being underestimated, I really liked it too. I believe in and trust in the P320 but of course (like any firearm) I could never present it with absolute guarantees that it could never fail. I also think that the drop fire issue in 2017 is proof that no matter who you are as a manufacturer, it is always possible to fail at something as mechanically complex as a gun where a plate of metal (or literally the weight of a part) is the literally the barrier between safety and discharge. Thanks for commenting!
The bottom-line truth of your first three sentences is why I would never replace the P250 I own with a P320. The P250 is a marvelous "9mm flat revolver" that is far safer to carry than any P320 will ever be. Too bad Sig shifted to a striker-fired FCU for the P320 when people proved unwilling to master the art of a perfectly-designed P250 DAO trigger.
Your channel is awesome!! First your camera/video is very crisp and clear, contrast between background and item in video is perfect. Your details are perfect, and on and on. Now I cannot get enought of your videos. I am a subscriber and hooked. Please keep them coming:)
I own three p320 the trigger on them is great but a short take up and short pull to release the striker from the sear makes me only carry it with a manual safety(m18). That presents other issues and I recently picked up an Sig p229 da/sa which I find more piece of mind with the first long heavy trigger pull. I have really decided to only carry da/sa or striker with a safety. Although there are other brands like Glock and M&P that have longer take up and a trigger dingus that I would consider carrying without a safety.
To keep it as simple as possible….anyone that says the P320 ‘just went off’ is an idiot! Keep you booger finger off the trigger and invest in a quality holster!!!!
This was one of the best, most detailed, and highly informative P320 vids or even just general firearm videos I've seen in a long time. Do you happen to have a video about how the manual safety version interacts with the sear? With the safety on, does it prevent any sear movement? Or does it just prevent trigger movement?
Love these videos the only problem I see with p320 design is if the gun is droped/extreme g force of impact that the trigger acceleration by the drop can overcome the needed resistance of the safety system by having a safety like glock's trigger paddle or s&w hinge trigger prevents the raw acceleration of the trigger from discharging the firearm
@GHOSTWARRIOR117. Thank you! I’m glad you’re enjoying the videos. It’s interesting that you say that because it has been a controversial thought that, even with the “upgrade program”, the safety could still fail but there hasn’t been any specific proof though. Sig Sauer’s only statement in the past has been that after the change of the trigger, the drop fire issue was solved…HOWEVER, I said it’s interesting that you bring it up because recently (in 2020 I think), a lawyer uploaded a video on TH-cam that showed the lock safety failing due to shock/vibrations. That video unfortunately has been taken down because Sig Sauer just a few weeks ago challenged them (the lawyer) and has opened a law suit against that law office. A great benefit is that now we might have documented evidence of either failure or no failure of that exact part! (I just hope that the data or transcript is made available/accessible to us in the public), if they do I will follow up with you and viewers because I believe that it would be critical for us to know as consumers one way or another.
Thank you for taking the time to make this very informative video. It gives me a much better understanding and a little more confidence in the P320. I would like to know your thoughts on the P365s striker safety depending on the striker sear “appendage” to actually not break off the MIM part. I know there is a very good video out there of an engineer trying to snap off the appendage with no success but I sure wish they would of incorporated the striker safety on a different part of the striker like the P320 or even Glock. Thank you.
I'm with you there. I saw that video and while the P365 sure is going to be safe enough, I still prefer the Glock way of doing it. It's just better in my opinion.
As a toolmaker,I appreciate the time and effort you took to do this.Ive wondered about how to time the striker release more closely to the disengagement of that little striker block lever.It moves .036",but it can travel up further than that.Im not sure,but the lifter is still moving it upward in the last .110" of trigger pull,adding to the pull weight the more its compressed[?]. At any rate,you have a good setup to see if some modified triggerbars like apex and others,comprimise the drop safeties.I could envision an gunsmith inspection jig for armorers to see things more closely.
@bergmannsimplex. Yes, the lever will continue to lift all the was through the trigger pull. I don’t believe that it affects trigger pull weight to any significant degree since it lifts all the way through over travel. Im working on getting a video out in the Apex since it’s such a common upgrade, so stay tuned. Anyway, thanks for your kind words, glad to have you here!
Great video. I feel like this helps shed some light on the myth that the p320 can just randomly discharge. Based on the physics of it seems like it can only occur from a physical trigger manipulation
This is excellent. Shame Sig can't put content like this out themselves. Would certainly ease a ton of minds. They should pay you to license this video to show the safety of the P320. What then do you make of the supposed lawsuits for the P320? Even .2 inches is such a short distance for the trigger to need to move in order to discharge the weapon. Perhaps that's why there are so many reports of the p320 discharging "in the holster" and would also explain why the M17 and M18 don't have these problems.
@TheHvk, working along side Sig would be a dream, so long as they gave me the liberty to do as I need to provide unbiased videos. My personal feelings toward the lawsuits is that the information they are claiming is, what I would categorize as, "highly unlikely". From what I can tell, unless you pull that trigger, it will not ND. Whether its .2" or 1" or how much of the pull has the safety engaged wont matter too much. Furthermore, at least one lawsuit I know of claims the strikers leg will walk off the ledge AND, when it does will also disengage safety, (though there's no explanation as to why in their claim since the FCU safety lever does not engage the striker safety lock in that senario). That being said, it really does matter that: 1. your firearms are in good condition and 2. you assure any accessories are made specific to your firearm AND intended purpose. Of course, that applies to all guns.
There’s multiple videos of Sig P320s firing without the trigger being actuated along with confirmation that guns involved in multiple ADs were able to fire without the trigger being manipulated.
@@JA-oo9qp "multiple"? How many for real. Out of over 50-THOUSAND P320 produced and sold, less than 0.001% users have reported UDs. In other words: 99.99% users have not experienced UDs. Some people are becoming "Karen" all over TH-cam.
@@v.german11b it’s not the odds, it’s the stakes is pretty much the core philosophy of carry a firearm. How many people out of those 50k will drop the gun in a way where it will ND? How many will even shoot more than 1k rounds out of a gun? No of this means that these guns discharging negligently when other designs won’t an acceptable thing. I don’t think people are “Karens” for. It wanting their modern firearm to be drop safe.
@@JA-oo9qp THAT issue or concern has been addressed and resolved by Sig Sauer adding two extra safeties to the trigger/sear group. It is safe (did you care to watch the entire video?). Now, *all firearms are inherently dangerous, due to human improper handling, negligence, incompetence and user error; add up a faulty holster, incorrect holstering, and lack of common sense and logic* ... Tnere you have accidental discharges. I own 3 Sig Sauer models, the P320 M17, the X Five, and the X Compact, with zero issues, no complains, except praises for their outstanding accuracy, reliability, great ergonomics and amazing smooth trigger pulls. You should stick to *Block.*
Outstanding precise scientific/mechanical analysis. I would LOVE to see this analysis done on other popular striker fired guns out there, for comparison
Great video. Really explains how the P320 works. I think operator error is the main issue combined with a very short take up with the P320 trigger. The extemely short distance that the trigger needs to travel is what I'm concerned with. Its almost to the point that it is like having a 1911 without a thumb and grip safety.
@C Lowe. Thank you! I'm undecided myself on whether I consider that too short or not. I will say that I've been playing with the safety a bit and might make a video of the results. Thanks for your insight!
That’s crazy! It would be hard to lose that part in that manner but I suppose it could happen. Luckily, the spring missing would still let you use the pistol, but would offer “limited” protection. Specifically, should your striker break, you would be be relying on luck, if the safety was shifted down… you’d be okay, if it was shifted up… hospital. I’m glad to hear your safe and got it resolved.
I would love to see a video like this one but with an aftermarket trigger like the Apex to see if the trigger pull length is different to disengage the safety
Mechanical devices such as guns are definable in their function. When a mechanism fails, like a crimes scene there is evidence of the failure. Whenever someone says 'it just went off" that statement must be viewed with a very skeptical eye.
Great explanation as usual. I am wondering at 5:55 you showed the fire pin unit and I noticed the shelf on the pin itself that interacts with the safety tab. Maybe that shelf should be steeper so if the gun is dropped upside down enertia won’t release the pin.
A year later but great video! Question though, how far does the manual safety on the P320-M17 series allow the trigger to travel? Is it enough to disengage the FCU safety lever?
That is an amazing question! I don’t know because I haven’t tested that, but I do have a method to test. I will add this to my list for future videos! All M17/18 triggers do have a slight play when safety is on, and my initial feeling would be “no”, however, the stipulation to that answer would be if it does engage safety it will not be enough to fully disengage. If anything it would be an insignificant fraction. But again, I’ll have to test it and report back. Thanks for asking!
Why doesn't the FCU Safety Lever rotate upward and interact with the Striker Safety tab when the sear is pressed independently from the trigger? such as at 7:40. For instance, if the sear springs failed and the sear dropped enough to release the striker.
It finest because the safety lever is independent from the sear, it’s controlled by the trigger bar. When you push down on the sear, your technically moving the sear further away from the trigger bar as you push it, therefore you can push the sear down all the way and not have it affect the trigger bar. Even if you could it would never be enough for the trigger bar to lift the safety lever (you’d bottom out).
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks for the interaction. But I still have a question (first pistol jitters). The 320 I'm testing was manufactured in August of this year. From my understanding, the striker safety becomes disengaged by the time the trigger first meets the "wall", or the trigger bar meets the sear. So, I take the slide off and set aside, rotate the takedown lever back to fire position, pull the trigger enough distance to meet the wall, and record the distance the safety lever travels up. If I then have the trigger in its resting position and press down on the sear with a tool to simulate spring failure or somesuch, the safety lever absolutely travels the distance needed, and beyond, to disengage the striker safety. What am I not comprehending? Also, every time I press the sear down I hear a click. Can't pinpoint what's making the sound. Luv the channel
Thank you! Nothing special just Fusion 360. Check it out, the software is free and easy to use. Plus, it’s popular with both hobbyists and professionals so there are tonnes of tutorials online if you’re interested in picking up the skill!
I just purchased my first handgun and it’s the P320 Compact, mine was made in April 2022, I’m still worried about the safety of the gun. Articles are still talking about this gun going off on its own, do you guys carry p320 hot? I carry it unloaded but wish to carry it hot but I’d like second opinions. Thank you!
Amazing video. And thanks for this work. My view is … based on your description and breakdown … while it Should NOT be unsafe. …. If bad QC parts in the springs or casting in the ledge and safety is not in spec … or worn … not just up and down but side to side tolerances. ….. that safety COULD theoretically get jostled out of the way. This mechanism reminds me a bit of how the beretta or ppk or bersa /makarov style pistols trigger bar functions. In low end pistols - like bersa … the spring and bar system has a tendency to fail like that under certain conditions. Again. In and of itself. It’s safe. If in good QC and in spec.
How would vertical play between the slide and the FCU affect the engagement of the Stryker and the seer I have a couple that when I start to press the trigger you can see movement vertically between the slide and the FCU
Will the way the 320 is built, too many parts would have to go wrong or bad before something like that could happen. Realistically it’s pretty improbable Aside from having to replace your springs every few thousand rounds there really isn’t much that will wear down. If really pressure to give an answer, I would however, say that the striker (which does take repeated impacts) would be good to replace along with the sear. I wouldn’t necessarily change them for fun, but I would change them depending on their condition upon visual inspection while cleaning.
At 7:40 how much pressure are you applying down on the sear to release the striker? I wonder why Sig would design the sear to be able to be depressed without the trigger bar acting on it to begin with. Glocks cruciform for example sits in the housing shelf preventing this until the trigger is pulled. When you depressed the sear in this instance, did the bottom rear sear leg press against the rear of the trigger bar?
Not much pressure, I should know, however, that putting a physical object on the seer is vastly different than shaking it in a drop. What I did represents an astronomical amount of force to do if it were to be reproduced without a physical item.
I use a small amount of dry-lube on mine. The manual does say NOT do oil the chamber on the slide, so this is a personal preference and not a recommendation by Sig.
Second time watching this excellent video. And, I think the Glock trigger has to travel close to 1/2" or 0.5" ! The slightest pressure on the trigger, from the depressed areas on either side of the holster, which retain the gun in the holster, moving it 0.2" to the rear, coupled with a light trigger pull will fire it. The gun could be holstered, with the sear barely hanging on, and a slight vibration or pressure on the gun could set it off. Two suggestions: 1)Sig should make the trigger guard wider- would reduce the chance of the holster depressions which slip into the trigger guard, to be further from the trigger, not pushing on the trigger. 2) Holsters for the P320 should secure the gun a different way- not snapping into the trigger guard area. I don't believe any Sig went off sitting on a table top. They all seem to be when holstering or in the holster, with the trigger pulled rearward, just before the point of releasing the sear. Then, the slightest pressure on the gun I. The holster, or even a vibration could set it off. How about measuring the distance between the side of the trigger and the edge of the trigger guard, and, comparing to other pistols? When Sig inspects a "defective" gun they should also examine the holster it was in. Mark the sides of the trigger with some sort of chalk. Slide the gun in and out and see if any chalk is transferred to the holster. Just a few of my non-expert thoughts . Keep up the excellent work!
Hello friend. I'm going to use photos and a part of your video in the production of mine, as I don't have the pre-upgrade P320. I will refer to your channel.
Great video! Do you know what was happening to the mechanism that caused the pistol to fire when struck with a hammer before the upgrade? I thought the striker safety would prevent the striker from fully traveling.
Looks like they were trying to reinvent the wheel. Whats wrong with the standard plunger striker block mounted in the slide? I mean i get it, they wanted a shorter take up. But at what cost.
Huh, if the trigger were moved enough to disengage the striker safety, how much force is required to move the seer and cause the striker to fall forward?
That will vary trigger to trigger. If you want to know EXACTLY that information I do have a complete analysis here: AN ANALYSIS OF EVERY P320 TRIGGER...EVER th-cam.com/video/so3b8JXJDlg/w-d-xo.html
Impressive! The detail is awesome. Great job. I've looked to see if the newer guns have ever been able to reproduce a UD, but couldn't find any conclusive. Does anyone know otherwise? Has anyone heard of a newer M18 having a UD? Thanks!
So far, there has yet to be any way to reproduce the UD in a “clinical” fashion. The supposed issue seems to be an unsupported claim. Although I remain open to the idea, I cannot find a way to cause a UD without first by-passing all safeties and even then, I still need to pull the trigger. Therefore, I wouldn’t worry about this too much unless someone can actually begin to reproduce the problem in a controlled environment. As far as the M18/17 with manual safety goes…even less of a concern, I haven’t heard anyone say that they experienced a UD with that model.
I like the idea of the safety bar but (and this is a lot of what ifs) if the spring that holds it down broke and you didn't know it and the gun was upside down (letting the safety bar flop) AND the sear catch on the striker broke, the gun could fire.
Very good video. Nice photography. Just some points: The striker “safety lever” is called the “safety lock”. The safety lever is in the FCU only. The safety lock only has to move upwards the height of the striker stop wall for the striker itself to continue forward to discharge the round after releasing from the sear by whatever means. Also, the striker housing is not machined. It is molded by MIM process. You need to take a look at the actual physical “ positive contact surface” of the sear, the striker foot, striker stop (wall) and the safety lock tab and notice excess molding material left over from the manufacturing process that has not been removed prior to installing the parts that can interfere with the designed “positive contact surface.” A video on this would be helpful.
hey, @peter villiani, good to “see” you again! lt’s funny you mention it, I realized this when I was creating a parts list right after the video was made, I thought about it but didn’t want to reshoot. oh well…I’ll chalk it up to P320 “slang”. Also, I have a bad habit of calling things “machined” when it comes to formed parts, even though almost everything on the P320 is injection molded. Good point though, I’ll keep that in mind going forward!
Hi again. Also if you take the slide off and lay it upside down, you can push the striker foot downward into the striker housing which also creates space between the striker foot and sear interface thereby reducing the need for the sear to drop down as far as it can since the striker foot can travel upwards because of the play in the housing. On another note, you really should take an armorers course because you definitely have the aptitude for this type of work. Once you do, you can be hired out as a Subject Matter Expert (SME).
@peter villani. Thanks! That's kind of you to say. If I'm being completely honest, the main reason I went with the gravity drop method was first for giving the camera a good angle to show my work, and second, to give the test a more tactile feel to it. By dropping it all the way into the breech face we got a nice "plink" noise for the viewers to experience the test alongside of me. So, I suppose you can say it was for a bit of theatrics and cinematography. lol.
@peter villani, yes I modeled them myself. I actually started making it before I had this channel because I wanted to see if I could 3D print a functional sear/safety/striker etc (not the FCU) for the fun of it. (NOTE: For anyone reading this the FCU is the serialized part and therefore the "firearm", do not manufacture it without proper licensing and approvals according to your local laws). Once I got started on Sig Mechanics I saw the value it could bring to the community and began to implement it to help others understand their guns better.
No. There are still safeties implemented even if the spring breaks. I know that someone posted a video saying it caused a ND, but unless the trigger was pulled the other safety would still have been there.
Thank you so much, very valuable information for carrying a P320. Can you please explain the mechanism of the manual safety on M17 please. Is only blocking the trigger or does it include additional Internal safety?
Hey Jorge. Due to the upcoming manual safety modification project I am working on, I plan on doing a deep dive on how the manual safety work on the P320. So if you stay tuned, I will have a very detailed video about it, including 3-D models that will show you the inner workings of those mechanics.
Before the voluntary upgrade program, the gun could discharge when subjected to large forces due in part to the trigger mechanism's inertia. For the upgrade, sig made the entire trigger mechanism much lighter to fix the issue as far as I understand. Do you think a post-upgrade gun could still fire when subjected to extreme forces outside the realm of regular usage (say, for example, 50 G's)? The only way I can see see to fix the issue at the source would be to add something like a backstrap or trigger safety.
@SultanOfTheUnderground. It’s hard to speculate on that kind of thing because I try not to provide info without some testing or background knowledge. However, if we are talking about an unnaturally heavy impact after a massive acceleration, I would think almost any non-safety gun would be affected by inertia at those levels. From what I could see through my own (unofficial) testing, is that the post upgrade trigger doesn’t move at all with a standard height drop. One day I plan to build a setup to test it, but for the time being, personally, I am satisfied with what was done.
“ However, if we are talking about an unnaturally heavy impact after a massive acceleration, I would think almost any non-safety gun would be affected by inertia at those levels.” What you just described is a firearm dropping to ground from a moderate height. No other modern design handgun fires when dropped except for the Sig P320. Full stop.
@J A, To be fair I don’t have the data for either the P320 or another similar firearm. So what I can do is request from Sig or their partners if there is any lab type testing that I can share. However, I wouldn’t be able to compare the result to anything else unfortunately. But, I think it’s fair to question it based on the lack of available info released by Sig. Anyways, I appreciate your input! If I can get the test results I’ll share them with you and the community.
This seems to confirm my own thoughts regarding the function of the striker safety and the fact that a number of aftermarket triggers that advertise "pre-travel adjustment" is likely adjustment that only serves to reduce the inherent safety of the pistol. If I am wrong in my assumption here, I would love to hear your thoughts.
So from about 7:00 to about 8:00... Is this demonstrating that if someone hit the back of the slide with say a rubber mallet it would still "click" but the striker wouldn't go forward past the breech face? Sorry for the simplistic language I'm an operator not an engineer lol
Not quite. The rubber mallet would not have any effect. Assuming however, that your using a “upgraded” version of the P320 (the pre-2017 versions had a drop safety issue), then there would be no effect to impact. The demonstration I’m doing here is just to show what happens if the sear is engaged, either with or without pulling the trigger. The result being that with the trigger pull, the safety tab moved out of the way, and it fires normally, and if I engage the sear without engaging the trigger, then the striker would not release into the breach face. If for any reason your P320 ever somehow was unable to retain the striker the safety tab will protect you, but ONLY if the trigger has not been pulled back far enough to disengage safety inside.
For sure, but tell him to replace the original trigger to the newer (slimmed down) versions, that will eliminate the drop safety problem with one part swap… all the other “upgrades” are more like free extras, the trigger being too heavy was the reason that version fires like that. If you get a chance, watch my video called pre-versus post upgrade P320 analysis I go into detail about this.
@@SIGMECHANICS will do. Recently found your channel and it's quite impressive. Well done. He's got a x-compact does than not already have the thinner trigger?
So with the new lawsuit in 2023 what do we think is happening that could allow the weapon to be fired while holstered. Are people disessembling them farther than they should be for their level of skill and breaking things? I am only comfortable field stripping my pistols and AR15. Haven't tried anything else as I haven't done enough research or education.
The P320 design is extremely simple, and it’s hard to mess up the internals. I have yet to see anyone that can replicate the issue under any sort of controlled environment, therefore I believe the discharges are simply NDs. For example, when the drop safety issue of 2017 came up, you could actually replicate that problem easily, this case however is more on word of mouth unfortunately (or fortunately as the case may be).
I hope you see this because i have a question i cant seem to find a definitive answer for. If the sear springs are defective, out of spec or worn out etc, the gun still could not be fired because the striker safety tab was not pushed up because there was no trigger pull correct? I just cant figure out how all these cases of the 320 “firing on its own” is happening without pulling the trigger somehow. Ive watched this video no less than 6 times and i just dont see how its possible
That’s exactly right. Even if the sear springs somehow were completely missing and the sear fell flat to the bottom and the striker had nothing to grab onto, the lock lever will still prevent entry into the breech face unless the trigger was pulled.
@@SIGMECHANICS i love these videos man! The amount of explanation you give and the in depth demonstrations are priceless info for us 320 guys. Keep it up!
Excellent video!!! I recently installed the apex forward set trigger and it more or less eliminated a lot of the take up. My concern now is that as a result of that the striker safety is being pushed up that .036” and it’s being constantly in that position. Unless the design of the leg of the trigger bar is somehow different and does not move the striker safety until the trigger is actually pulled. Any thoughts on this?
@Shivan Maharaj, my understanding of the trigger bar is that yes, they altered the design of the leg to allow the trigger bar additional distance before contacting the safety lever. However, I have not yet done my own look into it, I did however send off an email to them to see if we can get one in for testing.
Something isn't making sense. People are now saying that SIG is claiming these misfires are caused by a malfunctioning striker safety spring. When someone has their gun go off in their holster, and they send it to SIG they just replace the spring. What do you make of that?
It’s definitely not the reset spring causing this, a few years ago Sig considered the reset spring a redundant part and discontinued using it. They noted that because the striker will automatically reset when the slide blows back aft are firing, then the reset spring does not do anything. They still install them and they still put them into new firearms but it looks like they’re just phasing out the spring or getting rid of old stock. Some new P320s have the spring and others don’t have it at all from the factory.
@SIGMECHANICS In your opinion, what do you think is going on with these misfires? Do you think the manual safety will do anything to keep the gun from going off in the holster?
For everything I’ve done and tested… in every instance the trigger is being pulled unintentionally. There are too many safeties built in that would have to simultaneously fail otherwise. Most of the issues seem to stem from how there really, truly, was a drop fire problem in 2017 with the heavy triggers, and with that history it seems there are people are finding new ways to worry others. (Bad news gets clicks).
@@SIGMECHANICS I don't know the ins and outs of the P320 like you do. I did end up buying one of your manual safety conversion kits and installed it and it works perfectly (been working for a good long time now) 🫡. But I would be lying if I don't say I still am a little concerned in the back of my mind.
@@SIGMECHANICSSo if it’s just a matter of unintentional trigger pulls, why is this happening at such a higher rate with 320s and not other platforms? There shouldn’t be anything about Sig owners that makes them more likely to accidentally pull the trigger than say, M&P owners. So why Sig and not any other platform?
Love watching your videos, nice job! Can you explain how the striker reset spring works? the reason is, every time I dissemble the striker fully, I find the striker reset spring is broken into 2 or 3 pieces, and strangely enough, this seems like no impact to my gun functions. I do competitive shooting, so I may dry fire and shoot more than some regular folks. I'm wondering why this spring breaks so often, and what potential impact it can have once it's broken.
Thank you @Bo Zhang. I made a video that touched on this (a little) if you check out the Sig Mechanics SHORTCUTS video “broken reset spring”, I also made a Instagram post on this some time ago with a basic explanation. The reset spring is a finicky thing, I’ve broken and crushed mine (to be fair I disassembled the striker a lot), not much you can do but replace them. The only thing I’ve see people run into is the striker will stick out of the breech face and SOMETIMES cause a spent cartridge to not properly eject. I’ve not had the issue personally however.
This is such a well done video, you’ve really got a gift for making everything understandable and easy to digest! I have one question for you: do you carry a p320? With the knowledge you have, do you have any reservations about EDC-ing a p320?
I don’t have any particular reservations. However, if you feel in any way less than 100% confidence carrying the P320, I would advise not doing so. It’s more important to your piece of mind. If you’re on the fence, I think the MS version is best to get you used to the idea, you can always convert to a non manual safety after the fact when you get used to the idea.
I haven’t seen it go as far as complete disengagement, but if people know the degree to which that block was being moved they would immediately stop using it for sure!
Another point: the Walther PPQ striker assembly is similar in function to the P320. Very little trigger travel to disengage the firing pin block - BUT - the Walther comes with a trigger safety like a Glock. The idea of no trigger safety and very minimal travel isn’t super appealing from a safety perspective. P320 should have come with trigger safety or manual safety standard
Long story short - I wouldn’t carry a P320 without manual safety as even a slight trigger movement disables the first internal safety and not much between you and AD/ND 💥
I was in the range yesterday, I was doing my CCW drills, It was working perfectly fine after 300 rds, until on my last drill from appendix draw and shoot from the holster. After rapid fire for about 6 rds my p320 m18 stopped firing. Checked the magazine, still has 1 rd. And when I checked the barrel there still one in the chamber and wont fire. Rechecked and charged it again, trigger clicks, NO BANG. checked the fcu components and firing pin, no damage. Put it all back together, able to do dry fire and able to reset. Tried it again with an ammo, clicks, trigger fires but no bang. Funny enough, I gave up and use my mp shield, did same drill from appendix holster draw..(1st set of drill) about same 5 rds.. IT DID SAME THING! what am I doing wrong that caused both pistol to stop doing same drill? Need help 🙏
That sounds like you need a more in depth review from a professional but if I were to venture a guess, the common denominator would likely be the ammo. Were they reloads?
@@SIGMECHANICSI was using fiochi 115gr on the 1sr 275 rds... Then siwtched to blazer 124gr on the last 30rds. Last 15 rds of it worked fine then it stopped. (M18) Worked with mp in the 1st 5 rds and stopped too... prolly its the ammo? 🤔🤔🤔
Wait a min, if the margin of safety is 0.09" of pretravel before the striker safety is disengaged, then doesn't all those aftermarket triggers that reduce pretravel just compromise the striker safety?
Potentially yes. Depending on how the operator tunes the trigger but, it has been generally excepted that this may potentially disengage the safety. I made a video sometime ago showing how to test the safety of the striker after making modifications or installing new parts. Check that out. Let me know what you think.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks! Is it the DIY competition trigger job vid? This is all making me think twice about reducing pretravel on a gun with no trigger safety.
That one is my range toy only I wouldn’t recommend it for everybody. I have a method of ensuring safety remains on that I would still need to be independently verified, but once I have it down pat, I will release it. For the most part it’s better to be safe than sorry and the stock skeletonize trigger with a over travel stop weld does a wonderful job on its own.
@@SIGMECHANICS And also second question, in your opinion, would adding a trigger shoe safety like the Agency Arms trigger make the gun safer after reducing the pretravel or pull weight?
Yes. However I hear people have a tendency to dislike them due to the restrictions on finger placement. I’m about to release a video all about the p320 triggers. Stay tuned! It might help.
@Cyclone Gunworks, I polished it to a mirror finish some time ago. I’ve actually been working on a video to show people how to do it but it got bumped due to some other projects. Stay tuned, it will come!
In some respects, I have to completely agree. Not knowing the limitations of modifying the trigger or adjusting the take-up could definitely cause problems. Not necessarily meaning you can make the gun go off unintentionally, but simply tuning the trigger to a point where the operator may not be expecting a discharge can be a problem on its own.
Great video on the P320! I find these videos to be excellent. I am wondering if you can do a similar video for the P365? The striker assemblies are fundamentally different and I think it would be great to do a similar video of the internal safety systems for the P365. I believe the internal safety systems on the P365 all rely on the striker leg so in the event of a failure at the striker leg, the striker would strike the primer of a round and the gun would fire. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!
I don’t have experience with the P320, however I am an Sig Classic line and Glock armorer for LE. My department was issued the Sig P226 in 40 S&W beginning in 2013. We experienced breakages and parts failures almost immediately with these brand new expensive weapons. Over the course of the 10 years we were issued them, parts breaking was a common problem. Several of the stamped steel metal parts in particular (trigger bars, internal safety levers) were just not robust enough to reliably hold up to the battering of the 40.
I find it interesting that both the Sig classics and the Glock use a more robust piston type firing pin/striker safety instead of the small tab of bent sheet metal that is used on the P320.
Edmund, this video is incredible. The thing that really showed me how safe the p320 is, given the operator doesn't negligently discharge the firearm upon reholstering, or just in general. It shows that the safety really is the brain and trigger finger of the operator.
@Joshua Bracke, At the end of the day I found this safety to be more misunderstood than anything else. I mentioned in another comment some time ago that should Sig have made the step on the striker taller or the tab on the lever thicker the "problem" would be ultimately the same. If they were an full inch tall or thick, the operator will have had to fully press the trigger all the way enough to discharge. The act of disengaging the safety (that's not meant to act as a trigger block) would have no bearing on the resulting ND. Anyway, thanks for watching (and sharing) the video!
That's a great analogy and very true. As always keep making great videos as I look forward to watching them. Cheer m8.
Then we have a video of a Sig going off in a Safariland holster...how do you explain that? The officer had his hands nowhere near his holster.
@Osprey1994 the current theory is that by bending over something flexed, causing the trigger to be pressed. I’m not sure about specifics like if the firearm was fully seated in the holster at the time however, as you can see from the details in my video there is not much play between rest and discharge.
Again, this is just a theory since proof has not truly been provided one way or the other.
@@SIGMECHANICS I wonder if that issue of the 320 going off in holsters would be mitigated or out right prevented if a trigger safety were in place, as with the Glock. The problem with the 320 trigger design is even lateral movement can pull the trigger, whereas with the Glock the center must be depressed. I still say Sig made a huge oversight with that design decision. Also not blaming the holster itself doesn't help the public perception of Sig. It doesn't inspire confidence for existing customers, that's for sure. I still think the 320 is inherently safe, but my confidence in it has been shaken not because of its design, but because it is made by US Sig. A shame, really. Maybe they'll win me back someday, but for now I'm still sticking to my Glocks for carry.
I'm amazed by this channel. It's absolutely absurd the low number of subscribers. All the information given freely here is gold. Blessings 🙌
Thank you! I just started about a year back so we’re getting up there in views and subscriptions. To be frank, I never even thought it would grow to what it is now!
Thanks again!
You had me sold at the beginning of the video when, with the spring disengaged, and the sear was manipulated no firing pin was exposed. But after pulling the trigger and "firing the gun, only then the firing pin was visible. Very valid. Thank you. Sig owners everywhere should be rejoicing at this wonderful and well thought out experiment of engineering of the safety features of this firearm. *Insert crowd applause gif here that I can not insert on TH-cam*
Hey @James "Buzz D Clown" R. Good to "see" you again. lol, Thanks! I just hope the video helps those that maybe didn't understand this safety mechanism as well before. No need for applause, your kind words are just as good to me, if not better!
Great video. There are two more variables to keep in mind. (1) How much free play there is between the slide and frame. (2) The full impact of a loaded and accelerated striker will likely break through the safety at a smaller travel distance than you measured, which was statically placed under gravitational force. To find out the real safety margin, you can (a) apply some downward force onto the frame to remove the free play, (b) pull the trigger with various distances such as 0.03", 0.04", 0.05" and (c) release the sear from the back to find the exact point where the impact of the striker can break though the safety ledge.
Hey @fjcruiser9911. Your thoughts on the shear strength of the striker levers tab is very interesting (I wonder if we can test that). However, like most things the chance of it happening are never zero (given many variables), but probably also too low to worry about. It would likely take a tone of force for that to occur and the spring tension wont have that strength since at full "tension" when locked with the sear, that spring is not even fully compressed. You would have to extend the striker further back than the slide cap might allow for it to be all the way compressed (Take a look at the video thumbnail picture, that spring is MAX compressed and you can see how far back the striker body is).
Interestingly, I actually considered your first point when I made the video regarding the play between the slide and FCU. Hence why at one point in the video I talked about stripping all the internals to get a good view of the inside. (I wanted to explore the take up between the levers), I was going to see how that play affected the relation between the FCU and the striker levers, but all I found was that the gap between the two (when the slide and FCU were at their furthest points), was so absolutely insignificant that I didn't proceed with the demo. So to that I say, "good thinking" because I would have sworn there was more take up than there actually was.
Lastly, the dropping of the striker by gravity was solely for the purpose of giving me a simplified method to read the safety levers travel distance not for anything else, but, I do see where you are coming from. This video was for discovering the parameters to disengage the safety in normal operation. What you are talking about is FAR more interesting...What are the absolute limits of the safety mechanism to the point of malfunction...I like the way you think!
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks for the explanation!
To clarify, I'm not worried about shear strength or deformation of the safety lock, but my concern is that the safety lock itself is spring loaded and can move under impacting force. You measured the thickness of the safety lever ledge to be 0.033", and the amount of travel to disengage is also in the same range. Now, imagine that we only lifted it by 0.020" and the sear breaks off, hitting the safety lock edge at the lower 40% of its depth. Will the ledge on the striker push up the safety block and keep going? I guess it depends on the shape of contacting surface, which is a rounded shape if we look at microscopic scales. There may be a point where the striker can simply "lift up" the safety lever by overcoming its spring tension and keep going, while gravitational force may not be able to do so.
I love your methodology of discovering the internal parameters on each component. When testing software, there are different approaches: "unit testing" and "integration testing". The former focuses on the properties of each individual design element, which is similar to what you are doing, and the latter focuses on the integrated end-to-end behavior in more realistic environments. What I'm suggesting is a more of an end-to-end integration test, where we simply pull the trigger by X" and see if it can actually block the flying striker. Even if it cannot block the striker, if it can rub on and decelerate the striker to the point where a Federal primer will not be ignited, I'd call it a success. The result in my mind is more of a 2D graph, where the X-axis is the distance of trigger pull, and Y-axis is the probability of striker passing through (or igniting a Federal primer if the sear malfunctions). The falling curve and cut-off points would show the real safety parameters of the mechanism, which probably depends on the strength of springs as well.
@fjcruiser9911, Oh I see now. That is a great idea/question. I think having the trigger consistently hold at a given distance while releasing the sear may prove difficult to reproduce consistently. However, maybe If, say we slowly added shims of known thicknesses (thickness gauge leafs?) under the safety lock tab we may be able to do this! I'm going to write it down in the list of things to test on the channel and put some thought into how the testing would look like. If you have any input let me know. You can also email me at sigmechanics@gmail.com
Thanks @fjcruiser9911!
@@SIGMECHANICS That's a brilliant idea! Not only shims can make the tests more consistent, but it might actually simulate carbon/powder build ups in reality. So we'll know how dirty it needs be to compromise the safety! Will let you know if I come up with more ideas :) Keep up the great work!
Top-notch stuff!
Thank you @Richard Harris!
@@SIGMECHANICS So I've been a Glock guy for many years and know them inside and out, but recently a friend got me into building my first P320 for fun. With your experience what would be the most common part or parts that would fail in the P320?
@Richard Harris. That's a tough one because I rip apart and re-assemble it so much (especially now with these videos). That being said, I do have experience in what parts will most likely get damaged (and lost) the fastest with heavy abuse...
1. The striker reset spring: I have crushed one and snapped another and also find they compress quite a bit over time.
2. The trigger bar spring: Its pretty damn solid but will deform over time if you're constantly pulling it out.
3. The extractor assembly: If your taking it apart (all 3 pieces) a lot it loosens the press fit between them.
Now that I wrote this, I see the pattern of everything that's a spring is probably the first to either deform/loosen up or get lost on the workshop floor. The rest of the hardware is likely not going to give you a problem long term.
@@SIGMECHANICS This is a really good start for me. I really appreciate all your input and experience. I'm just getting started with the P320 phase of my life. Lol, and looking to build my spare parts list for it. Springs are definitely top on my list:) The only other thing I figured would be the striker and sear being they see most of the stress during cycling.
@@richardharris5819 In that case, maybe pick up the Gray Guys Competition Kit. The kit comes with a polished sear, polished safety lever pin, two sets of sear springs (med and competition) and a adjustable trigger. Plus, if you're looking for the stock OEM look, sell the trigger and make up some of the cost of the kit. It's a good way to have extra parts with the benefit of improved performance.
Remarkable work as always. I really appreciate getting to see these deep dives into the functionality of the P320.
The Sig Armorer at my Club has been trying to tell this to people for years. And of course you get the usual UN-informed ridiculous comments that the 320 is unsafe. Typical internet Puppets. Thanks so much for this detailed and sophisticated information that debunks this ridiculous Myth.
Great video. Lots of doubts removed. Keep it up.
@Robert Silveus, Glad to hear that! Thanks!
This is great! This is really going to help us all out in so many ways. Thank you!
@S L, Thank you! It definitely was interesting to see and establish some form of baseline to help people understand the strikers purpose when it comes to the topic.
Every time you explain something I learn something new. Keep up the good work!
@Derick Featherstone, Thank you, I'll definitely do my best!
Excellent Video! The lab style breakdown and 3D graphic diagram are very helpful as well. The SIG P320 has a nice very short trigger travel of 0.2" or a fifth of an inch. You confirmed that at .09 inches, 45% of the short total trigger travel is required to disengage the safety. I do desperately want it to be a drop safety haha
I have a P229 combat that I installed the SRT in and it also requires very little movement of the safety lever to disengage the firing pin block, but the required trigger travel to lift the block is about a full inch on a DA/SA trigger lol Interestingly the SRT works by keeping the firing pin block disengaged when the slide returns to battery thus relying solely on the firing pin rebound spring to keep it from contacting the primer of the next round.
Feel free to shout me out SIG daddy haha thanks for taking the time and tools to make this!
@Subgun Snake. LOL, done! A credit to you has been noted in the description section of the video!
Thank you so much for your videos on the P320. it's incredible and just what I needed to understand how these internal components function and the safe-fail that's inherent.
Excellent as always, and good confirmation of what I understood about the operation of the safety lever.
Hey @John Stewart! Good to have you back! Thank you.
Thank you for this video! I just bought a p320 (2019) and was having second thoughts due to the lawsuits and rumors.
As an engineer, I have full confidence in this platform due to your very informative and structured video.
It is all about the operator.
Thanks again, I love the way this gun feels and was regretting having to take it back. Not anymore!
Thank you for the vote of confidence @Mel Bobadilla and I’m glad you enjoyed the video! The P320 is a great platform that I feel is excellent right out of the box. Those lawsuits and videos out there definitely have many people feeling the same as you though, for the most part I find the caution is misplaced today but warranted since back then it actually was a legitimate concern. So long as you’ve got the upgraded FCU, you’ll be more than happy with it!
Really enjoyed this, thanks for making it.
@masterdekoy. Thanks, I appreciate you watching!
Okay I knew I should’ve waited and watched the rest of the video. You hit right on it. Thumbs up
Awesome video idea. Have wondered this myself, but don't have the money or time. Can't wait to watch (and see how you do it).
@Deuce Deuce, it started to become clear that many people had the same question so it was only a matter of time before I did this one.
You’ve been here from almost the beginning of the channel so please let me know your thoughts when you get a chance to see it.
@@SIGMECHANICS Great video. I knew how every part of the gun works except the striker safety, so It's really good to learn that. I know how every part of a Glock works too, but I still can learn a lot from Johnny Glocks (for example). I always have notifications on, so I always try to catch your videos when they come out.
Need to pan up the volume. A little bit low for a car driving, other than that I appreciate you putting the video together. I like the technical information.
@Synthgunner, Yes, I just played it and you're right. I'll re-upload again with the volume fixed.
edit: This may be a TH-cam issue, the original file seems to work fine. I'll leave it up for now and see what happens. Thanks for pointing it out though!
Awesome video! Really enhanced my understanding of how both the sear and the striker safety work.
Outstanding video, this clears up so many misconceptions that are being reported by others!
Thank you so much for making this video. You do an excellent job explaining it where I can understand. This was so very helpful!
It seems to me, all striker fired pistols incorporate a spring loaded firing pin held back by some sort of mechanical stops until the trigger is pulled. Glock does not fully compress the striker spring until the the trigger is fully pulled, and SIG uses the safety lever you so amply described. Stored energy held in place by mechanical parts, good mechanical parts, but still a source of failure. The rather elegant solution is called the SIG P250 with its smooth double action trigger that requres the shooter to provide the energy to fire the round. Its a shame this firearm never acheived the popularity it deserved.
You are absolutely right about the P250 being underestimated, I really liked it too.
I believe in and trust in the P320 but of course (like any firearm) I could never present it with absolute guarantees that it could never fail.
I also think that the drop fire issue in 2017 is proof that no matter who you are as a manufacturer, it is always possible to fail at something as mechanically complex as a gun where a plate of metal (or literally the weight of a part) is the literally the barrier between safety and discharge.
Thanks for commenting!
The bottom-line truth of your first three sentences is why I would never replace the P250 I own with a P320. The P250 is a marvelous "9mm flat revolver" that is far safer to carry than any P320 will ever be. Too bad Sig shifted to a striker-fired FCU for the P320 when people proved unwilling to master the art of a perfectly-designed P250 DAO trigger.
You are so incredible. I learn so much about my guns from you. You are truly amazing and we sincerely appreciate you. Thank you so very much.
Thank you!
Absolutely amazing detailed information. Thank you sooo much for posting this.
Thank you!
Your channel is awesome!! First your camera/video is very crisp and clear, contrast between background and item in video is perfect. Your details are perfect, and on and on. Now I cannot get enought of your videos. I am a subscriber and hooked. Please keep them coming:)
Thank you Charles, I’m glad to have you here! Lots of new stuff coming soon including the introduction of the P365 platform coming soon.
I own three p320 the trigger on them is great but a short take up and short pull to release the striker from the sear makes me only carry it with a manual safety(m18). That presents other issues and I recently picked up an Sig p229 da/sa which I find more piece of mind with the first long heavy trigger pull. I have really decided to only carry da/sa or striker with a safety. Although there are other brands like Glock and M&P that have longer take up and a trigger dingus that I would consider carrying without a safety.
Just found this channel. I’ve learned a lot so far. Thank you.
@Spirit Walker. Thank you! I’m always happy to hear that these videos are helping people. Thanks for watching!
To keep it as simple as possible….anyone that says the P320 ‘just went off’ is an idiot! Keep you booger finger off the trigger and invest in a quality holster!!!!
This was one of the best, most detailed, and highly informative P320 vids or even just general firearm videos I've seen in a long time.
Do you happen to have a video about how the manual safety version interacts with the sear? With the safety on, does it prevent any sear movement? Or does it just prevent trigger movement?
Yes, I would like to see a video on the manual safety version as well, if possible.
@@abro7735 I just tested my P320 Compact with manual safety, and the manual safety keeps the trigger from moving when the safety is engaged.
Another fantastic video! The 3D models you display are a great visual aid to illustrate how these parts function.Thanks again!
@MotecM. Thank you! The models were hard work but I think they’ve become extremely useful in showcasing what’s going on. Thanks for watching!
Stellar analysis and demonstration.
@Fin Jan, thanks!
Love these videos the only problem I see with p320 design is if the gun is droped/extreme g force of impact that the trigger acceleration by the drop can overcome the needed resistance of the safety system by having a safety like glock's trigger paddle or s&w hinge trigger prevents the raw acceleration of the trigger from discharging the firearm
@GHOSTWARRIOR117. Thank you! I’m glad you’re enjoying the videos. It’s interesting that you say that because it has been a controversial thought that, even with the “upgrade program”, the safety could still fail but there hasn’t been any specific proof though.
Sig Sauer’s only statement in the past has been that after the change of the trigger, the drop fire issue was solved…HOWEVER, I said it’s interesting that you bring it up because recently (in 2020 I think), a lawyer uploaded a video on TH-cam that showed the lock safety failing due to shock/vibrations. That video unfortunately has been taken down because Sig Sauer just a few weeks ago challenged them (the lawyer) and has opened a law suit against that law office.
A great benefit is that now we might have documented evidence of either failure or no failure of that exact part! (I just hope that the data or transcript is made available/accessible to us in the public), if they do I will follow up with you and viewers because I believe that it would be critical for us to know as consumers one way or another.
Amazing visuals.
Thank you!
Thank you for taking the time to make this very informative video. It gives me a much better understanding and a little more confidence in the P320. I would like to know your thoughts on the P365s striker safety depending on the striker sear “appendage” to actually not break off the MIM part. I know there is a very good video out there of an engineer trying to snap off the appendage with no success but I sure wish they would of incorporated the striker safety on a different part of the striker like the P320 or even Glock. Thank you.
I'm with you there. I saw that video and while the P365 sure is going to be safe enough, I still prefer the Glock way of doing it. It's just better in my opinion.
Faaantastic! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Thank you for going through this elaborate explanation about the P320 trigger safety mechanism. Appreciated!
As a toolmaker,I appreciate the time and effort you took to do this.Ive wondered about how to time the striker release more closely to the disengagement of that little striker block lever.It moves .036",but it can travel up further than that.Im not sure,but the lifter is still moving it upward in the last .110" of trigger pull,adding to the pull weight the more its compressed[?]. At any rate,you have a good setup to see if some modified triggerbars like apex and others,comprimise the drop safeties.I could envision an gunsmith inspection jig for armorers to see things more closely.
@bergmannsimplex. Yes, the lever will continue to lift all the was through the trigger pull. I don’t believe that it affects trigger pull weight to any significant degree since it lifts all the way through over travel. Im working on getting a video out in the Apex since it’s such a common upgrade, so stay tuned. Anyway, thanks for your kind words, glad to have you here!
Very informative video.
Great video. I feel like this helps shed some light on the myth that the p320 can just randomly discharge. Based on the physics of it seems like it can only occur from a physical trigger manipulation
Except we now have video of a P320 going off in a holster...
This is excellent. Shame Sig can't put content like this out themselves. Would certainly ease a ton of minds. They should pay you to license this video to show the safety of the P320. What then do you make of the supposed lawsuits for the P320? Even .2 inches is such a short distance for the trigger to need to move in order to discharge the weapon. Perhaps that's why there are so many reports of the p320 discharging "in the holster" and would also explain why the M17 and M18 don't have these problems.
@TheHvk, working along side Sig would be a dream, so long as they gave me the liberty to do as I need to provide unbiased videos. My personal feelings toward the lawsuits is that the information they are claiming is, what I would categorize as, "highly unlikely". From what I can tell, unless you pull that trigger, it will not ND. Whether its .2" or 1" or how much of the pull has the safety engaged wont matter too much. Furthermore, at least one lawsuit I know of claims the strikers leg will walk off the ledge AND, when it does will also disengage safety, (though there's no explanation as to why in their claim since the FCU safety lever does not engage the striker safety lock in that senario).
That being said, it really does matter that: 1. your firearms are in good condition and 2. you assure any accessories are made specific to your firearm AND intended purpose. Of course, that applies to all guns.
There’s multiple videos of Sig P320s firing without the trigger being actuated along with confirmation that guns involved in multiple ADs were able to fire without the trigger being manipulated.
@@JA-oo9qp "multiple"? How many for real. Out of over 50-THOUSAND P320 produced and sold, less than 0.001% users have reported UDs. In other words: 99.99% users have not experienced UDs. Some people are becoming "Karen" all over TH-cam.
@@v.german11b it’s not the odds, it’s the stakes is pretty much the core philosophy of carry a firearm.
How many people out of those 50k will drop the gun in a way where it will ND? How many will even shoot more than 1k rounds out of a gun? No of this means that these guns discharging negligently when other designs won’t an acceptable thing.
I don’t think people are “Karens” for. It wanting their modern firearm to be drop safe.
@@JA-oo9qp THAT issue or concern has been addressed and resolved by Sig Sauer adding two extra safeties to the trigger/sear group. It is safe (did you care to watch the entire video?).
Now, *all firearms are inherently dangerous, due to human improper handling, negligence, incompetence and user error; add up a faulty holster, incorrect holstering, and lack of common sense and logic* ... Tnere you have accidental discharges.
I own 3 Sig Sauer models, the P320 M17, the X Five, and the X Compact, with zero issues, no complains, except praises for their outstanding accuracy, reliability, great ergonomics and amazing smooth trigger pulls. You should stick to *Block.*
Outstanding precise scientific/mechanical analysis. I would LOVE to see this analysis done on other popular striker fired guns out there, for comparison
@Jay Berkowitz, That’s a great idea!
Great information! Thanks for posting!
Great video. Really explains how the P320 works. I think operator error is the main issue combined with a very short take up with the P320 trigger. The extemely short distance that the trigger needs to travel is what I'm concerned with. Its almost to the point that it is like having a 1911 without a thumb and grip safety.
@C Lowe. Thank you! I'm undecided myself on whether I consider that too short or not. I will say that I've been playing with the safety a bit and might make a video of the results. Thanks for your insight!
I just took apart my slide and noticed the striker safety spring was missing. I had another with the spring, so I swapped them out.
That’s crazy! It would be hard to lose that part in that manner but I suppose it could happen. Luckily, the spring missing would still let you use the pistol, but would offer “limited” protection. Specifically, should your striker break, you would be be relying on luck, if the safety was shifted down… you’d be okay, if it was shifted up… hospital.
I’m glad to hear your safe and got it resolved.
another excellent presentation !!!!
Thank you @mytquin. Glad to have you here!
amazing work once again
Hey @The Real Deal Airsoft, Always good to see you here. Thanks!
Excellent video. Great work!
Thank you!
Awesome video, awesome channel! Thank you!
I would love to see a video like this one but with an aftermarket trigger like the Apex to see if the trigger pull length is different to disengage the safety
Mechanical devices such as guns are definable in their function. When a mechanism fails, like a crimes scene there is evidence of the failure. Whenever someone says 'it just went off" that statement must be viewed with a very skeptical eye.
Another amazing video - keep up the great work
Hey, @Ron Martinsen! Thanks!
Edmund, I would LOVE to see a video detailing the mechanics of a P365 also! Thanks for the work! I subscribed!!!
Will do! And thank you!!
Great explanation as usual. I am wondering at 5:55 you showed the fire pin unit and I noticed the shelf on the pin itself that interacts with the safety tab. Maybe that shelf should be steeper so if the gun is dropped upside down enertia won’t release the pin.
A year later but great video! Question though, how far does the manual safety on the P320-M17 series allow the trigger to travel? Is it enough to disengage the FCU safety lever?
That is an amazing question! I don’t know because I haven’t tested that, but I do have a method to test. I will add this to my list for future videos!
All M17/18 triggers do have a slight play when safety is on, and my initial feeling would be “no”, however, the stipulation to that answer would be if it does engage safety it will not be enough to fully disengage. If anything it would be an insignificant fraction.
But again, I’ll have to test it and report back. Thanks for asking!
Why doesn't the FCU Safety Lever rotate upward and interact with the Striker Safety tab when the sear is pressed independently from the trigger? such as at 7:40. For instance, if the sear springs failed and the sear dropped enough to release the striker.
It finest because the safety lever is independent from the sear, it’s controlled by the trigger bar.
When you push down on the sear, your technically moving the sear further away from the trigger bar as you push it, therefore you can push the sear down all the way and not have it affect the trigger bar. Even if you could it would never be enough for the trigger bar to lift the safety lever (you’d bottom out).
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks for the interaction. But I still have a question (first pistol jitters). The 320 I'm testing was manufactured in August of this year. From my understanding, the striker safety becomes disengaged by the time the trigger first meets the "wall", or the trigger bar meets the sear. So, I take the slide off and set aside, rotate the takedown lever back to fire position, pull the trigger enough distance to meet the wall, and record the distance the safety lever travels up. If I then have the trigger in its resting position and press down on the sear with a tool to simulate spring failure or somesuch, the safety lever absolutely travels the distance needed, and beyond, to disengage the striker safety. What am I not comprehending? Also, every time I press the sear down I hear a click. Can't pinpoint what's making the sound. Luv the channel
Pretty awesome video. What's the 3DS simulation software used for showing the mechanism?
Thank you! Nothing special just Fusion 360. Check it out, the software is free and easy to use. Plus, it’s popular with both hobbyists and professionals so there are tonnes of tutorials online if you’re interested in picking up the skill!
I just purchased my first handgun and it’s the P320 Compact, mine was made in April 2022, I’m still worried about the safety of the gun. Articles are still talking about this gun going off on its own, do you guys carry p320 hot? I carry it unloaded but wish to carry it hot but I’d like second opinions. Thank you!
Amazing video. And thanks for this work. My view is … based on your description and breakdown … while it Should NOT be unsafe. …. If bad QC parts in the springs or casting in the ledge and safety is not in spec … or worn … not just up and down but side to side tolerances. ….. that safety COULD theoretically get jostled out of the way. This mechanism reminds me a bit of how the beretta or ppk or bersa /makarov style pistols trigger bar functions. In low end pistols - like bersa … the spring and bar system has a tendency to fail like that under certain conditions.
Again. In and of itself. It’s safe. If in good QC and in spec.
How would vertical play between the slide and the FCU affect the engagement of the Stryker and the seer I have a couple that when I start to press the trigger you can see movement vertically between the slide and the FCU
I made a video about this exact issue. Here’s the link:
P320 - SLIDE MOVES DURING DRY FIRE (2022)
th-cam.com/video/itGqqq8IcL8/w-d-xo.html
Friggin fascinating! Thanks
Outstanding video
Thank you!
Great video!!! Thank you!!!
What parts do you think will wear down over time and what parts should i replace to avoid it randomly going off when i bang it against somethint
Will the way the 320 is built, too many parts would have to go wrong or bad before something like that could happen. Realistically it’s pretty improbable
Aside from having to replace your springs every few thousand rounds there really isn’t much that will wear down. If really pressure to give an answer, I would however, say that the striker (which does take repeated impacts) would be good to replace along with the sear.
I wouldn’t necessarily change them for fun, but I would change them depending on their condition upon visual inspection while cleaning.
Nicely done
At the minute 4:39s is not a spring inside the cavity where fire pin is located?
No, there are no springs in the housing at that time stamp. I removed them for the demonstration.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks, this spring is the "striker pin reset"? The name? I think my M18 never came with this spring :(
At 7:40 how much pressure are you applying down on the sear to release the striker? I wonder why Sig would design the sear to be able to be depressed without the trigger bar acting on it to begin with. Glocks cruciform for example sits in the housing shelf preventing this until the trigger is pulled. When you depressed the sear in this instance, did the bottom rear sear leg press against the rear of the trigger bar?
Not much pressure, I should know, however, that putting a physical object on the seer is vastly different than shaking it in a drop. What I did represents an astronomical amount of force to do if it were to be reproduced without a physical item.
Great video. Quick question. Do you recommend keeping the entire striker assembly dry or light coated with oil or anything else? Thanks
I use a small amount of dry-lube on mine. The manual does say NOT do oil the chamber on the slide, so this is a personal preference and not a recommendation by Sig.
Really liked this, thank you.
@Gary Jones, glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Second time watching this excellent video.
And, I think the Glock trigger has to travel close to 1/2" or 0.5" !
The slightest pressure on the trigger, from the depressed areas on either side of the holster, which retain the gun in the holster, moving it 0.2" to the rear, coupled with a light trigger pull will fire it. The gun could be holstered, with the sear barely hanging on, and a slight vibration or pressure on the gun could set it off. Two suggestions: 1)Sig should make the trigger guard wider- would reduce the chance of the holster depressions which slip into the trigger guard, to be further from the trigger, not pushing on the trigger. 2) Holsters for the P320 should secure the gun a different way- not snapping into the trigger guard area. I don't believe any Sig went off sitting on a table top. They all seem to be when holstering or in the holster, with the trigger pulled rearward, just before the point of releasing the sear. Then, the slightest pressure on the gun I. The holster, or even a vibration could set it off. How about measuring the distance between the side of the trigger and the edge of the trigger guard, and, comparing to other pistols? When Sig inspects a "defective" gun they should also examine the holster it was in. Mark the sides of the trigger with some sort of chalk. Slide the gun in and out and see if any chalk is transferred to the holster.
Just a few of my non-expert thoughts .
Keep up the excellent work!
This is video is perfect!
I appreciate that, thanks!
@@SIGMECHANICS I will make a video in Portuguese about the safety of this model
That’s great! Share a link here when you’re done. Let me know if you have any questions.
@@SIGMECHANICS off course. I watch your videos, it helps me a lot.
Hello friend. I'm going to use photos and a part of your video in the production of mine, as I don't have the pre-upgrade P320. I will refer to your channel.
Great video! Do you know what was happening to the mechanism that caused the pistol to fire when struck with a hammer before the upgrade? I thought the striker safety would prevent the striker from fully traveling.
I do and I made a video about it (sort of)…
P320 - PRE v. POST UPGRADE ANALYSIS
th-cam.com/video/VmwpkJuIR00/w-d-xo.html
Looks like they were trying to reinvent the wheel. Whats wrong with the standard plunger striker block mounted in the slide? I mean i get it, they wanted a shorter take up. But at what cost.
It’s a bit odd, the 365 has a version of a plunger, the slide on the 320 could possibly be fitted with a similar thing.
Huh, if the trigger were moved enough to disengage the striker safety, how much force is required to move the seer and cause the striker to fall forward?
That will vary trigger to trigger. If you want to know EXACTLY that information I do have a complete analysis here: AN ANALYSIS OF EVERY P320 TRIGGER...EVER
th-cam.com/video/so3b8JXJDlg/w-d-xo.html
Impressive! The detail is awesome. Great job.
I've looked to see if the newer guns have ever been able to reproduce a UD, but couldn't find any conclusive. Does anyone know otherwise?
Has anyone heard of a newer M18 having a UD? Thanks!
So far, there has yet to be any way to reproduce the UD in a “clinical” fashion. The supposed issue seems to be an unsupported claim.
Although I remain open to the idea, I cannot find a way to cause a UD without first by-passing all safeties and even then, I still need to pull the trigger. Therefore, I wouldn’t worry about this too much unless someone can actually begin to reproduce the problem in a controlled environment.
As far as the M18/17 with manual safety goes…even less of a concern, I haven’t heard anyone say that they experienced a UD with that model.
I like the idea of the safety bar but (and this is a lot of what ifs) if the spring that holds it down broke and you didn't know it and the gun was upside down (letting the safety bar flop) AND the sear catch on the striker broke, the gun could fire.
Are you talking about the takedown safety lever?
Very good video. Nice photography. Just some points: The striker “safety lever” is called the “safety lock”. The safety lever is in the FCU only. The safety lock only has to move upwards the height of the striker stop wall for the striker itself to continue forward to discharge the round after releasing from the sear by whatever means. Also, the striker housing is not machined. It is molded by MIM process. You need to take a look at the actual physical “ positive contact surface” of the sear, the striker foot, striker stop (wall) and the safety lock tab and notice excess molding material left over from the manufacturing process that has not been removed prior to installing the parts that can interfere with the designed “positive contact surface.” A video on this would be helpful.
hey, @peter villiani, good to “see” you again! lt’s funny you mention it, I realized this when I was creating a parts list right after the video was made, I thought about it but didn’t want to reshoot. oh well…I’ll chalk it up to P320 “slang”.
Also, I have a bad habit of calling things “machined” when it comes to formed parts, even though almost everything on the P320 is injection molded. Good point though, I’ll keep that in mind going forward!
Hi again. Also if you take the slide off and lay it upside down, you can push the striker foot downward into the striker housing which also creates space between the striker foot and sear interface thereby reducing the need for the sear to drop down as far as it can since the striker foot can travel upwards because of the play in the housing. On another note, you really should take an armorers course because you definitely have the aptitude for this type of work. Once you do, you can be hired out as a Subject Matter Expert (SME).
@peter villani. Thanks! That's kind of you to say. If I'm being completely honest, the main reason I went with the gravity drop method was first for giving the camera a good angle to show my work, and second, to give the test a more tactile feel to it. By dropping it all the way into the breech face we got a nice "plink" noise for the viewers to experience the test alongside of me. So, I suppose you can say it was for a bit of theatrics and cinematography. lol.
@@SIGMECHANICS question: do you do your own animation?
@peter villani, yes I modeled them myself. I actually started making it before I had this channel because I wanted to see if I could 3D print a functional sear/safety/striker etc (not the FCU) for the fun of it. (NOTE: For anyone reading this the FCU is the serialized part and therefore the "firearm", do not manufacture it without proper licensing and approvals according to your local laws). Once I got started on Sig Mechanics I saw the value it could bring to the community and began to implement it to help others understand their guns better.
So is it possible that if the spring in the striker safety fails is it possible that the firing pin can release and fire the round in the chamber
No. There are still safeties implemented even if the spring breaks. I know that someone posted a video saying it caused a ND, but unless the trigger was pulled the other safety would still have been there.
Thanks,I see all the videos and just don't won't to take a chance of the gun going off and injuring someone
Thank you so much, very valuable information for carrying a P320. Can you please explain the mechanism of the manual safety on M17 please. Is only blocking the trigger or does it include additional Internal safety?
Hey Jorge. Due to the upcoming manual safety modification project I am working on, I plan on doing a deep dive on how the manual safety work on the P320.
So if you stay tuned, I will have a very detailed video about it, including 3-D models that will show you the inner workings of those mechanics.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thank you very much.
Do you think the post upgraded p320 es safety enough?.mine is a 320 vtac post upgraded...
Yes, just the trigger upgrade alone was enough to solve the problem. The rest of the upgrades only add to this.
Before the voluntary upgrade program, the gun could discharge when subjected to large forces due in part to the trigger mechanism's inertia. For the upgrade, sig made the entire trigger mechanism much lighter to fix the issue as far as I understand. Do you think a post-upgrade gun could still fire when subjected to extreme forces outside the realm of regular usage (say, for example, 50 G's)? The only way I can see see to fix the issue at the source would be to add something like a backstrap or trigger safety.
@SultanOfTheUnderground. It’s hard to speculate on that kind of thing because I try not to provide info without some testing or background knowledge. However, if we are talking about an unnaturally heavy impact after a massive acceleration, I would think almost any non-safety gun would be affected by inertia at those levels.
From what I could see through my own (unofficial) testing, is that the post upgrade trigger doesn’t move at all with a standard height drop. One day I plan to build a setup to test it, but for the time being, personally, I am satisfied with what was done.
“ However, if we are talking about an unnaturally heavy impact after a massive acceleration, I would think almost any non-safety gun would be affected by inertia at those levels.”
What you just described is a firearm dropping to ground from a moderate height.
No other modern design handgun fires when dropped except for the Sig P320. Full stop.
@J A, To be fair I don’t have the data for either the P320 or another similar firearm. So what I can do is request from Sig or their partners if there is any lab type testing that I can share.
However, I wouldn’t be able to compare the result to anything else unfortunately. But, I think it’s fair to question it based on the lack of available info released by Sig.
Anyways, I appreciate your input! If I can get the test results I’ll share them with you and the community.
This seems to confirm my own thoughts regarding the function of the striker safety and the fact that a number of aftermarket triggers that advertise "pre-travel adjustment" is likely adjustment that only serves to reduce the inherent safety of the pistol. If I am wrong in my assumption here, I would love to hear your thoughts.
@Riley Bowman, that’s definitely something I want to investigate. I’m working on something now that you’ll be interested in, stay tuned!
@@SIGMECHANICS I look forward to seeing what comes next!
So from about 7:00 to about 8:00... Is this demonstrating that if someone hit the back of the slide with say a rubber mallet it would still "click" but the striker wouldn't go forward past the breech face? Sorry for the simplistic language I'm an operator not an engineer lol
Not quite. The rubber mallet would not have any effect. Assuming however, that your using a “upgraded” version of the P320 (the pre-2017 versions had a drop safety issue), then there would be no effect to impact.
The demonstration I’m doing here is just to show what happens if the sear is engaged, either with or without pulling the trigger. The result being that with the trigger pull, the safety tab moved out of the way, and it fires normally, and if I engage the sear without engaging the trigger, then the striker would not release into the breach face.
If for any reason your P320 ever somehow was unable to retain the striker the safety tab will protect you, but ONLY if the trigger has not been pulled back far enough to disengage safety inside.
@@SIGMECHANICS OK, thanks. Buddy of mine has one post recall and he says when he hits it the striker still drops
For sure, but tell him to replace the original trigger to the newer (slimmed down) versions, that will eliminate the drop safety problem with one part swap… all the other “upgrades” are more like free extras, the trigger being too heavy was the reason that version fires like that.
If you get a chance, watch my video called pre-versus post upgrade P320 analysis I go into detail about this.
@@SIGMECHANICS will do. Recently found your channel and it's quite impressive. Well done. He's got a x-compact does than not already have the thinner trigger?
It’s possible, but if your saying he can light a primer with a hammer, then chances are he’s not upgraded.
So with the new lawsuit in 2023 what do we think is happening that could allow the weapon to be fired while holstered. Are people disessembling them farther than they should be for their level of skill and breaking things? I am only comfortable field stripping my pistols and AR15. Haven't tried anything else as I haven't done enough research or education.
The P320 design is extremely simple, and it’s hard to mess up the internals. I have yet to see anyone that can replicate the issue under any sort of controlled environment, therefore I believe the discharges are simply NDs.
For example, when the drop safety issue of 2017 came up, you could actually replicate that problem easily, this case however is more on word of mouth unfortunately (or fortunately as the case may be).
I hope you see this because i have a question i cant seem to find a definitive answer for. If the sear springs are defective, out of spec or worn out etc, the gun still could not be fired because the striker safety tab was not pushed up because there was no trigger pull correct? I just cant figure out how all these cases of the 320 “firing on its own” is happening without pulling the trigger somehow. Ive watched this video no less than 6 times and i just dont see how its possible
That’s exactly right. Even if the sear springs somehow were completely missing and the sear fell flat to the bottom and the striker had nothing to grab onto, the lock lever will still prevent entry into the breech face unless the trigger was pulled.
@@SIGMECHANICS i love these videos man! The amount of explanation you give and the in depth demonstrations are priceless info for us 320 guys. Keep it up!
Thank you! Lots of fun new stuff coming up soon with a few surprises. Stay tuned!
Excellent video!!! I recently installed the apex forward set trigger and it more or less eliminated a lot of the take up. My concern now is that as a result of that the striker safety is being pushed up that .036” and it’s being constantly in that position. Unless the design of the leg of the trigger bar is somehow different and does not move the striker safety until the trigger is actually pulled. Any thoughts on this?
@Shivan Maharaj, my understanding of the trigger bar is that yes, they altered the design of the leg to allow the trigger bar additional distance before contacting the safety lever. However, I have not yet done my own look into it, I did however send off an email to them to see if we can get one in for testing.
@@SIGMECHANICS awesome. Hope you get one. Great testing my friend
Something isn't making sense. People are now saying that SIG is claiming these misfires are caused by a malfunctioning striker safety spring. When someone has their gun go off in their holster, and they send it to SIG they just replace the spring. What do you make of that?
It’s definitely not the reset spring causing this, a few years ago Sig considered the reset spring a redundant part and discontinued using it. They noted that because the striker will automatically reset when the slide blows back aft are firing, then the reset spring does not do anything.
They still install them and they still put them into new firearms but it looks like they’re just phasing out the spring or getting rid of old stock. Some new P320s have the spring and others don’t have it at all from the factory.
@SIGMECHANICS In your opinion, what do you think is going on with these misfires? Do you think the manual safety will do anything to keep the gun from going off in the holster?
For everything I’ve done and tested… in every instance the trigger is being pulled unintentionally. There are too many safeties built in that would have to simultaneously fail otherwise.
Most of the issues seem to stem from how there really, truly, was a drop fire problem in 2017 with the heavy triggers, and with that history it seems there are people are finding new ways to worry others. (Bad news gets clicks).
@@SIGMECHANICS I don't know the ins and outs of the P320 like you do. I did end up buying one of your manual safety conversion kits and installed it and it works perfectly (been working for a good long time now) 🫡. But I would be lying if I don't say I still am a little concerned in the back of my mind.
@@SIGMECHANICSSo if it’s just a matter of unintentional trigger pulls, why is this happening at such a higher rate with 320s and not other platforms? There shouldn’t be anything about Sig owners that makes them more likely to accidentally pull the trigger than say, M&P owners. So why Sig and not any other platform?
Love watching your videos, nice job! Can you explain how the striker reset spring works? the reason is, every time I dissemble the striker fully, I find the striker reset spring is broken into 2 or 3 pieces, and strangely enough, this seems like no impact to my gun functions. I do competitive shooting, so I may dry fire and shoot more than some regular folks. I'm wondering why this spring breaks so often, and what potential impact it can have once it's broken.
Thank you @Bo Zhang. I made a video that touched on this (a little) if you check out the Sig Mechanics SHORTCUTS video “broken reset spring”, I also made a Instagram post on this some time ago with a basic explanation.
The reset spring is a finicky thing, I’ve broken and crushed mine (to be fair I disassembled the striker a lot), not much you can do but replace them.
The only thing I’ve see people run into is the striker will stick out of the breech face and SOMETIMES cause a spent cartridge to not properly eject. I’ve not had the issue personally however.
This is such a well done video, you’ve really got a gift for making everything understandable and easy to digest! I have one question for you: do you carry a p320? With the knowledge you have, do you have any reservations about EDC-ing a p320?
I don’t have any particular reservations. However, if you feel in any way less than 100% confidence carrying the P320, I would advise not doing so. It’s more important to your piece of mind. If you’re on the fence, I think the MS version is best to get you used to the idea, you can always convert to a non manual safety after the fact when you get used to the idea.
@@SIGMECHANICS What is the MS version? "Manual safety? Thanks
What’s scary is all these adjustable triggers where owners dial out all the pre travel. At that point there is no firing pin block in operation.
I haven’t seen it go as far as complete disengagement, but if people know the degree to which that block was being moved they would immediately stop using it for sure!
You should also do one on the 365, the safety of the 365 is just as debated as the 320.
@TJ For Liberty, yes, it’s already in the works to get the 365 catalog started!
@@SIGMECHANICS Fantastic, I thoroughly enjoyed this from a video and educational perspective. Thanks for the quality work!
Another point: the Walther PPQ striker assembly is similar in function to the P320. Very little trigger travel to disengage the firing pin block - BUT - the Walther comes with a trigger safety like a Glock. The idea of no trigger safety and very minimal travel isn’t super appealing from a safety perspective. P320 should have come with trigger safety or manual safety standard
Long story short - I wouldn’t carry a P320 without manual safety as even a slight trigger movement disables the first internal safety and not much between you and AD/ND 💥
Well done
great video, thanks for the explanation. My only gripe is that you keep saying "machined" when you are pointing at cast parts.
Yes, they are all MIM parts.
I was in the range yesterday, I was doing my CCW drills, It was working perfectly fine after 300 rds, until on my last drill from appendix draw and shoot from the holster.
After rapid fire for about 6 rds my p320 m18 stopped firing. Checked the magazine, still has 1 rd. And when I checked the barrel there still one in the chamber and wont fire.
Rechecked and charged it again, trigger clicks, NO BANG. checked the fcu components and firing pin, no damage.
Put it all back together, able to do dry fire and able to reset. Tried it again with an ammo, clicks, trigger fires but no bang.
Funny enough, I gave up and use my mp shield, did same drill from appendix holster draw..(1st set of drill) about same 5 rds.. IT DID SAME THING!
what am I doing wrong that caused both pistol to stop doing same drill? Need help 🙏
That sounds like you need a more in depth review from a professional but if I were to venture a guess, the common denominator would likely be the ammo. Were they reloads?
@@SIGMECHANICSI was using fiochi 115gr on the 1sr 275 rds...
Then siwtched to blazer 124gr on the last 30rds. Last 15 rds of it worked fine then it stopped. (M18)
Worked with mp in the 1st 5 rds and stopped too... prolly its the ammo? 🤔🤔🤔
Did you check for light strikes on the primer for the failed rounds?
@@SIGMECHANICS so thats possible?, certain grains like 124gr will work 1st several rds and stops? 🤔
@@SIGMECHANICS that I missed to check, ill check it when I get back home. Tnx for the quick input 🙏🙏🙏
Wait a min, if the margin of safety is 0.09" of pretravel before the striker safety is disengaged, then doesn't all those aftermarket triggers that reduce pretravel just compromise the striker safety?
Potentially yes. Depending on how the operator tunes the trigger but, it has been generally excepted that this may potentially disengage the safety. I made a video sometime ago showing how to test the safety of the striker after making modifications or installing new parts. Check that out. Let me know what you think.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thanks! Is it the DIY competition trigger job vid? This is all making me think twice about reducing pretravel on a gun with no trigger safety.
That one is my range toy only I wouldn’t recommend it for everybody. I have a method of ensuring safety remains on that I would still need to be independently verified, but once I have it down pat, I will release it. For the most part it’s better to be safe than sorry and the stock skeletonize trigger with a over travel stop weld does a wonderful job on its own.
@@SIGMECHANICS And also second question, in your opinion, would adding a trigger shoe safety like the Agency Arms trigger make the gun safer after reducing the pretravel or pull weight?
Yes. However I hear people have a tendency to dislike them due to the restrictions on finger placement. I’m about to release a video all about the p320 triggers. Stay tuned! It might help.
How is your FCU so shiny? I need one.😊
@Cyclone Gunworks, I polished it to a mirror finish some time ago. I’ve actually been working on a video to show people how to do it but it got bumped due to some other projects. Stay tuned, it will come!
It would appear that a trigger shoe with a take up adjustment is a bad idea on this platform
In some respects, I have to completely agree. Not knowing the limitations of modifying the trigger or adjusting the take-up could definitely cause problems.
Not necessarily meaning you can make the gun go off unintentionally, but simply tuning the trigger to a point where the operator may not be expecting a discharge can be a problem on its own.
Great video on the P320! I find these videos to be excellent. I am wondering if you can do a similar video for the P365? The striker assemblies are fundamentally different and I think it would be great to do a similar video of the internal safety systems for the P365. I believe the internal safety systems on the P365 all rely on the striker leg so in the event of a failure at the striker leg, the striker would strike the primer of a round and the gun would fire. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!
@Bill Gorry, I haven't gotten to the P365 yet, but the idea has been to do an entire series on each Sig gun. P365 is the very next one on the list!
Thanks
Happy to help!