What an excellent, informative presentation! I am a factory-certified armorer for the P320, having been to the armorer courses three times, before and after the modification (“upgrade”), but I learned more about the safety features of the pistol from your video than from the courses or all the study I have devoted myself. Thank you.
Woah, thanks @John Stewart, I wish I knew how to pin a comment because that’s probably the greatest compliment one can get. Thanks for watching the video. I’ve been wanting to do the armorer course for a while now, if anything just to get my hands on that armorers handbook that they give you. Can’t find a upgraded copy online anywhere.
@@Fittednocap Most of what I do as an armorer is simply maintenance: inspections, cleaning beyond what nonspecialist users are permitted or qualified to do, scheduled parts replacements. If there is a problem with a part I will replace it with new. Factory armorer training and certification usually qualifies us to do nothing more than that, and it’s true of the courses I’ve attended. Although certified armorers may make modifications to parts on occasion, that’s usually done without sanction by the manufacturer. If a shooter has a functioning problem that’s not due to an obviously defective part, then an armorer might diagnose the cause as inadequate cleaning and/or lubrication. If, however, it’s due to shooter error then it becomes a matter of training, and although it may be the same person(s), it’s a different function and responsibility. For example, as the agency firearms instructor I often get complaints that a gun’s sights are not regulated properly. The first thing I do in that situation is fire the gun myself. When I fire a small group at the point of aim, I’ll say, “Okay, the gun is fine. Let’s figure out what might be causing the problem,” and go from there. Law enforcement agency armorers usually work on more than one type of firearm, but not necessarily always. I currently work on SIG P320 pistols, AR-15 type rifles, and Remington 870 shotguns for the agency. I also train on those weapons, so my cross-familiarity is a benefit. Based on what I know about the “upgraded” P320, I believe it is drop safe. Not only were the mechanical changes theoretical improvements, but there are countless people who would love to demonstrate that something was still wrong with the gun. That has not happened to my knowledge. Am I as certain the P320 is as drop safe as a DAK P229? No, but I’m confident enough for me to rely on the gun for serious purposes in serious situations. As Judge Learned Hand observed, “[L]ife is made up of a series of judgements on insufficient data, and if we waited to run down all our doubts, it would flow past us.”
This is the best video on the P320's safety features and mechanics. The explanation is explained in the most informative manner and the video quality and camera work is above excellent. I bet even Sig could not have come up with video of this quality. As a matter of fact I don't think Sig has been able to produce anything close to the quality of this video. Sig should hire your services.
@FuzzyTube, that’s very kind of you to say! It takes quite a bit of work to make one of these videos, but they seem to be helping a lot of folks, so I’m happy to do it. From what I hear, some sig reps actually have watched this channel and like it! So, hopefully it keeps growing like it has been.
You’re very welcome. It’s daunting at first but once you do it a few times it very fast and you’ll find yourself taking it down to bare parts even for a quick cleaning. Glad the video helped! Thanks for watching.
Best video I have seen on the Sig p320. Two things I would add: On some P320 and P365 pistols, the disassembly shaft can pop off the sear when you take the FCU out. It can be a PITA (problem) to get back on top of the sear, so don't let it come loose when taking the FCU out. The other point I would like to make is that NO pistol with a sub 5lb trigger should be carried in anything except a holster. The 320 and 365 cannot be safely carried loose in a purse, pocket, gym bag etc. They must be carried in holster designed specifically for the model. Foreign objects (such the trigger fingers) must be kept out of the trigger guard when re holstering and carrying. This is especially true for police officers who generally have little or no gun training or experience.
Thanks for watching and for your insight. I do have another video I think you will like that is close to your point about carrying. Check out the video on P320 Striker Safety Parameters. I completely agree with your thoughts.
There is a former Seal who carries without a holster, but I still think that you at minimum need a kydex trigger guard that is attatched to your belt so that it gets removed during the draw stroke.
Thank you for the great explanation. I’m more confident in the reliability. Was getting nervous after hearing about those PDs that had “NDs”, but now I’m more confident that it was just their incompetence and trying to save face.
No doubt that some of the AD's are actually due to people being dumb, but I've seen video of a pistol going off in the holster without being handled and this is concerning. But in the video the fellow was getting out of the rear seat of a car and I think this is important and part of what's going on with these pistols. There is considerable play between the slide and frame rails....and ANY play here that allows slide movement relative to the grip is going to be moving the striker up on the sear. Rock the slide back and forth like hitting the grip while the slide is firmly being held by the holster and I think it's possible for the sear to creep up the striker surface enough to release it. Yes....the striker safety lever 'should' prevent it from going home, but this same slide to rail play also reduces the distance the safety lever is being lifted with every shot to release the striker and I'll bet the guns that are discharging have wear on the interface surfaces on the striker from previous shots where the lever was just barely being lifted enough so it actually is being impacted by the striker with every shot which causes wear. The whole problem with the guns...IMHO....is the play in the slide to rails which of course some clearance is needed but the guns I've seen do seem to have excessive slop. Combine this with wear then hold the slide in a holster and work the grip back and forth and you can get a discharge. Tighter fitting rail to slide would make the striker safety lift farther when the trigger is activated and release the striker cleanly and also keep the striker down with full sear engagement. I wish the armorers supposedly keeping an eye on these guns had a better idea of what was happening...but good mechanics are hard to find and this is very likely what is going wrong with these pistols.
@@SIGMECHANICS OK...I just rewatched (and thanks for your prompt reply!) and you might be on to another part of the problem with how the slide release interfaces with the sear. Stuck in a tight fitting holster the slide release might be slightly depressed which then allows the sear to move downward out of engagement. If this is part of the problem then it would be difficult to diagnose when just examining the pistol as it could be functioning just fine out of the holster but be put into a precarious situation while up in the holster where this cannot be seen. Somebody is dropping the ball here when trying to diagnose what 's happening and for sure with the tens of thousands of 320's out in service that the 'problem' isn't more widespread if there was actually a defect in the gun itself. The PD chose that particular holster and I've been wondering how many other departments are using the same ones?
@@SIGMECHANICS No...sorry, I just spent some time searching for the holster and can't find it. Everyone seems to be blaming the pistol for 'going off in the holster' but nobody is talking about WHICH holster this happens in. Are all the AD"s using the same one? Wondering now if the positive retention device they have to be using is part of what's going on? A buddy of mine makes holsters and they don't do PD versions because of all the hoops they'd have to jump through with retention specs. If the slide is being tightly held, then the retention strap pushes down on the grip....it would be trying to constantly separate them thus lifting the striker up off of the sear. Wiggle it around and throw in a bit of extra play in the slide release lever to grip clearance and I can see how they could be going off. Everyone is focusing on the pistol...but with the holster they form a system and that second part of the system might be where some of the problem lies. Did they issue new holsters when switching to the 320's from the S&W's they'd been using before? This line of questioning might offer some insight as to what's going on.
As a first time SIG owner, I hadn't learned about the issues surrounding concern for it till literally this morning. But seeing this video have eased my worries for sure. They went above and beyond to make this thing safe.
There’s a lot of videos out there that I believe discuss the P320 as “unsafe” because the fear draws viewership, it’s perpetuated by other videos like the one that lawyer posted a few years ago, showing inaccurate tolerances between parts. I’ve played around and broke the P320 numerous times in order to see it’s limits and I have to say, I feel this pistol is perfectly safe, although not for everyone because we all have a style and way of managing our guns. Anyway, im glad to have you here and that you enjoyed the video!
In my opinion, don't fuck with any gun that doesn't have an external safety. I think at the most I'd maybe trust p226 series, but the rest are Darwin awards waiting to happen.
@SIG MECHANICS I think it's interesting to note that you're stating your feelings, thus no guarantees obviously implied. I believe between the p320 series and glocks, functioning on a "as long as outside of trigger gaurd" concept is plain asking for it. I think this has been tried much longer before these pistols, didn't work then either. One ND, is one too many.
I watched this video after the announcement of the most recent major lawsuit against Sig with regard to their P320 uncommanded discharge allegations. I personally own 6- P320’s, 2 of which are USPSA CO competition guns with 2# triggers, non of which I have ever had an issue with regarding uncommanded discharge. Until watching your video, I thought I had an understanding of the inner workings of my pistols. Your video was a plethora of great new information and gave me a better understanding of the gun. Sig Sauer can use your video as the entire basis for their defense. The guns design is pure genius especially in the redundancy of their safety mechanisms without compromising competition performance. I have taken my 2# competition 320 Legions loaded with a “laser” bullet and tried to get them to discharge while hitting it with a rubber mallet from multiple directions. I was unsuccessful in getting them to fire. Based on my very unsuccessful & unscientific testing, it is my opinion that Sig Sauer will prevail in this lawsuit if they don’t settle. Also I consider the fact that most of the plaintiffs are in law enforcement. A LEO who has an AD has a lot of explaining to do and even faces reprimand or worse. It’s a lot easier to blame the gun or someone else rather than take responsibility for your own actions (just saying). Sig has deep pockets and even a settlement will leave the plaintiffs with a bundle. To Sig I say, fight it. Your product is as safe as any firearm can be. Settling will just open the door to a multitude of others looking for an easy payout. Let the plaintiffs attorneys waste their money and loose so others won’t follow suit. Thanks again for their absolutely great video. The videography & explanation was terrific.
Thank you for your insight! I agree with you for the most part as I cannot find a way to make this gun fail without damaging the parts (and I have tried whole heartedly to do so). Realistically if I did find a way, I would be the first to share it along with all the variables, parameters and methods of doing so in order to assure Sig did their part to either take the gun out of circulation or fix it. That being said, I feel most anyone trying to sue is doing the same and I would expect this information to be made public, but so far, no one has done so and I feel like it will not likely ever happen. In any case, I’m glad that you enjoyed the videos and I’m happy to have you as part of this community! Also thank you for the kind words. I hope that you will continue to enjoy the new stuff I’m putting working on now.
@SIG MECHANICS I did see someone mention that one of the reasons for the guns discharging was a part that once worn down, it places the gun at risk for self discharge. This made some sense since the pistols that had problems were high round competition guns, or pistols issued at police stations. Unfortunately I can't be 100% certain, and I feel that the best solution is to buy a model with a manual safety.
Any idea as to which part wearing down they are referring to? Two of my 320’s are high round count guns. Since every part is very easily replaceable I would like to keep an eye on things. When I clean my guns I always inspect my sear, striker and other critical parts for abnormalities. Even with the high round counts, everything looks like and functions like new. Thanks for the comment.
Awesome video on the P320 safety mechanisms, as a 1st time Sig owner I was a little skeptical without having a trigger shoe safety (like on most other guns). But now I understand there are actually more internal safeties on Sigs than most other guns.
@Baba Yaga, thank you! Yes, there is surprisingly little out there on what the P320 offers past the obvious. I'm glad you stopped by and found the video helpful!
Excellent video , thank you for taking time to go so much in details . As a gunsmith i also learned more details about p320 safety mechanisms. Awaiting more videos like this 👌🏻
Glad it was helpful! I also wish I did this years ago, I never realized how much people wanted this type of information until now. Glad you enjoyed the video and glad to have you here!
@@SIGMECHANICS I know this video is not about your opinion. But I'll be picking up my P320 XCARRY SPECTRE soon. I'm a glock guy. Would you say the p320 is safe to carry?
Thank you! I’ll be trying to drop new stuff at least every month as I attempt to get all the P320 stuff completed before moving on to another firearm and giving it the same in depth treatment. Speaking of which I’m just finishing up one for this next week. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for posting this. I suspect that either unfamiliarity with the product or a another misunderstanding could be what caused the Posting about the 320's firing without pulling the trigger. My buddy has 2 and he told m the information was bogus.
Another function of the disconnector is to disengage the trigger bar from the sear as the slide moves backwards after the gun is fired. This allows the sear to pop back up so that it will catch the striker when the slide moves forward again. The snap you feel when the trigger resets is the trigger bar snapping back into position on the sear.
You are absolutely correct. I went a bit more in detail about that in the last video I posted comparing pre vs. Post upgrade models. (For anyone reading this and might be interested, scrub to about 6:54 on that video) Thanks for pointing that out, and for watching!
very helpful, thank you! I'm hesitant to carry my p320, got it in the custom FCU form so should be post upgrade. This will help assuage my fears of carrying it hopefully!
You're welcome. I didn't want to leave any of my personal opinions on the video, but I can say here that the sear either has to move down (so the striker can fire) or, the striker would have to jump up 1mm distance to clear the sear ledge. (This is also assuming the striker's safety is somehow compromised). Therefore, if you look at the design of the striker housing, you can see there is such a tight tolerance between it and the actual slide that any upward pressure i put on the striker leg would basically just transfer to the slide. I didn't see any way for the striker body/leg to lift up a full 1mm to actually clear the sear ledge so, I couldn't see a way for it to fail without some sort of critical malfunction on either a lot of other parts or specifically, the sear being moved. Hopefully someone else may have some insight to that science though. Thanks for watching!
@@SIGMECHANICS another question, what does the manual safety mechanically do, should you have a model with a manual thumb safety? I don't but have always toyed with the idea of getting a m18 also
@@dukeofcai it locks in to the rear of the trigger bar making it impossible for the trigger bar to move at all. This prevents the safety lever from moving at all, thus the striker safety is never disengaged without catastrophic failure.
I trusted the 320 to be safe after the recall, but I never understood the mechanisms of what actually made the gun safe. This is an excellent video, greatly upping my trust in the 320. Does the 365 have the same type of safety mechanisms inside?
Thank you for making this video! I’ve been looking at the p320 series and honestly wanted to objectively know more about the guns safety…over the copy pasta “p320 drop fire” or “p320 fires randomly” Thank you for this!
Thank you for watching. Yes, it’s getting a little tiring that every video talks about the same thing without any evidence of un-commanded discharge, or a drop safety problem from 2017 that has since been resolved. But fear gets the views on TH-cam so I guess we have to get used to it.
@@SIGMECHANICS yeah true. More clicks to say a gun many people probably carry can go off at any time. When those “uncommanded discharges” were results of improper handling and poorly trained officers . And lawsuits designed to bankrupt gun manufacturers. Not the stuff people should be latching onto imo. It really is unfortunate though. Thank you for making this, it’s really cool seeing the internals of how a gun works in general!
I’ve gotta say, nice visual presentations… Love how you set up the displays with real working parts, and your recording is also top notch!!! Still wanna know where you got that highly polished FCU, and now I noticed something else I’m desiring, an original take down lever. Yeah, I notice things… it’s how I survived this long when I really shouldn’t have 😅😂🤣 anyway, keep up the great vids. I recently put a flat trigger in my M17 and afterwards it started making a clicking noise after it was fired, before it was reset and with the safety on. I knew it couldn’t be much cuz everything was functional. It was a little piece of plastic, mim, at the bottom of the safety lever that kinda sits between the FCU and the trigger bar. A little lube and it was all better… but without your videos I wouldn’t have even tried to change my trigger, let alone go in after and figure out that little sound. Here’s a question, what resets the striker, the sear… when the slide cycles? I always thought that the sear stayed in the “fired” position until it reset??? I’m confused on how they’re both reset… after pulling the trigger, the trigger bar is now in front of the sear and the sear is lower in the sear housing , isn’t it? And the striker is forward?
Just strip your FCU and polish it. That simple. Strip it with youtube videos, get some Mothers mag polish and a microfiber rag and start rubbing. I have mine more polished than his. Whole thing is like a mirror. FCU, trigger bar, sear and safety. All butter smooth. Also, Thats an Armory Craft Sport Takedown lever.
@Robert Silveus, up until now I’ve not found any evidence that the gun can discharge without a trigger pull. In fact, from what I saw and tested, so long as the trigger is not engaged, the firearm will actively prevent discharge. I’ve got a video on this topic coming within the week so I hope you get a chance to check it out. If you’re subscribed then you’ll be notified though. Thanks for watching!
Thanks. To be honest I’m kind of surprised it’s gotten to the point it already has. A few months back it was just me talking about a trigger job I did, now three months later we’re about to hit 1000 subscribers. I’m glad you liked the video, hope you stick around for more!
@Thomas White. Yeah, sometimes it’s easier after you get the full scope of what’s there. That way you can break down the information and allow yourself to logically make theories and confirm them because you then understand all the fine details behind it. Anyway, thanks for watching!
People seem to not know or forget that Glocks are essentially about 30% cocked. As you press the trigger you continue to undressed tension on the firing pin spring. Current striker fired guns are mostly 100% cocked. This is one reason out of the box Glocks tend to have triggers worse than the competitors
Excellent explanation. I've been looking to get this gun but recently heard about the allegations of the lack of safety. This video is very reassuring. Thank you.
Another great video. Thanks you! I saw some videos that mentioned that the weight (mass) of the trigger is part of the flaw of the safety of the P320? I believe it mentioned that the older design of the trigger has enough mass to “pull” the trigger when the gun is dropped, and that renders the other safety mechanism useless. Again, thanks for such a great video! Can’t wait to see what you’ll have coming up!
The "trigger mass" issue and other issues, were all corrected in the late 2017 "voluntary upgrade" and also implemented on all P320s manufactured after that time.
Originally they didn't have the other safety features. If you take off your slide and look by the striker safety release you'll see an unfinished milled out spot where the safety from the FCU rises up into and allows the trigger bar to travel. Also, the sear and point on the striker where it engages the sear is an all new design. People who are blaming the P320 for firing by itself are just "mostly, mainly" covering for their own lack of trigger discipline.
@@reachblowsdick7222 I’ve heard, now I don’t have proof, but I’ve heard that that case, that they’ve got video of it just going off getting out of the vehicle that they were using the wrong holster for the gun. Like I said, wasn’t there, no proof, but from what I’ve heard. And then there’s the female officer who was shot, she had it in her purse with no holster, from what I heard… everything isn’t always black and white, lots of grey. I don’t know, what I do know is that the P320 is a good pistol and I wouldn’t think twice about carrying it, but… it’s too big for that, at least mine is; M17. But I do have a P365XL I carry. I’m not afraid of carrying that. And, both of mine have manual safeties. I have no idea how this became a problem to flick off a safety before you shoot your gun. I believe it’s stupid. Should I leave the safety off on my shotgun while walking through the old field in case a double woodcock goes out and I may miss one??? Fuck no!!! Just becomes second nature to flick it off as you’re shouldering the damn gun. Or going up through the creek bottom and you bounce a couple whitetail, should I have my safety off for that????
@@reachblowsdick7222 I’m not going back and forth with you here about this, and no, I don’t know who Ash Hess is except that he’s some guy involved in a lot of things military, guns and ammo and probably a whole bunch more stuff… but I’m expressing my opinion and I didn’t buy my M17 because some other person gave an opinion for or against it. I was actually going to buy a Glock and then I saw the M17 there and asked to see it and I liked it and bought it. I had actually completely forgotten about the P320. My first choice was actually the P365XL and I couldn’t activate the mag release good. So, then I was thinking about a Taurus G3, Glock 19 or the Beretta. If I had thought of getting an aftermarket mag release for the P365XL, I’d probably have bought it and been done with it. The Taurus and Beretta were the first to get knocked off the list and I had actually been in the store to buy it that day, and again, if I had thought of aftermarket mag release for the Glock, I’d probably have walked out the door with it… but standing there holding it and not being able to manipulate the mag release well I was disappointed but was still just thinking I’d have to get used to it. But that’s when I saw the M17. It just felt right in my hand… and with two spare 21 round mags, I was sold. I have since went back and bought the P365XL and an aftermarket mag release. But I’m not going to stop carrying my M17 until I feel it’s unsafe. Why not the P365XL??? It’s basically the same sear and striker interface, isn’t it.
And PS this is very informative I wish I would have found this video a day or two ago before changing my sear springs and having to lean all this the hard way
I recently picked up a pre up graded P320 in excellent condition. The date on the box was 5/26/2015. I made a similar set up to your striker retainer. My intention was to see if the striker block worked. After loading a primed case I pushed down on the sear. I did this 10 times. Each time the striker block did it's job. With the addition of the safety notch on the up graded P320's it's obvious to me that these guns just don't discharge on their own
Yeah, I have to agree. The safety lever on the striker is not there as a manual safety. (Nor was it ever marketed as such), It’s there as a method to prevent a specific thing from happening. Basically, if the sear or striker ever malfunction, the gun won’t fire. If you touch the trigger it will. For some reason there is a debate on why it won’t prevent the gun from firing IF you pull the trigger. Which wasn’t the point. Good on you for trying and testing things for yourself! I’m working on a video for this right now and I think I’ll incorporate this into that.
Just wanted to thank you for your efforts for this outstanding video. Well, done I’m self taught armorer who wants to understand the functions of the different pistols that I own you, sir make that possible thank you again John
14:30 I think when you tried to slip the striker lug over the sear, you inadvertently placed your hand on top of the slide and clamped down on it. If there was any chance on making the lug slip past the sear, you'd have to expand the gap (do the opposite of what you did)... by taking advantage of the clearance between the slide and rails (maybe slightly out of spec, or very worn slide rails, etc...). You'd want to play with the lug while trying to SEPARATE the slide from the frame. Maybe set up a small pry bar and try to widen the gap then play with it.
Ah yes, to simulate a small pry bar entering your pocket and separating the slide from the body of the grip. Happens all the time, I alway say before calling a gun safe, “we’ll have you tried damaging it first?”
@@KingPhilipsRideshare I think you took my request a little too far. I didn't mean to try to "wreck it". Anyone knows when you insert a fully loaded mag (how you should be carrying a gun), there's significant spring pressure pressing up on the slide trying to separate it from the lower frame. Everyone competent around guns knows this. If you dry fire without a loaded mag and with a loaded mag you can even witness the slide movement between the two. With the loaded mag, there's no slide movement because the spring pressure is enough to push the slide as far up as it can go against the rails. He did the opposite by wrapping this hands over the slide and pressed down (opposite condition of what it is to actually carry it in real life). All I'm saying is that he inadvertently introduced a variable that would never be present when actually carrying the gun. A much better scenario is to try to simulate the situation while carrying a fully loaded mag - which means trying to separate the slide from the frame as he conducts the tests. Get it?
Came here to comment this, but you’re correct. The walking off would only happen without any downward pressure being applied onto the slide, which was the case here. Not to say that it would have made a difference in the outcome for this particular test, but that would’ve been the proper way to conduct the test. In your opinion, what do you think of SIG’s striker assembly design/safety mechanisms? I’ve gone down the rabbit hole, and it seems like manufacturing defects and tolerances aside, Glock seems to have the best overall.
Even if he managed to get that to slip over the sear, the striker safety lever would have prevented the striker from moving forward enough to fire a round.
I love my Compact P320. No problem's with the gun. Incredible Firearm. If I started carrying in public, This would be my Gun. Great Gun, and I will own it,till I die.
Fantastic Video! I know you made this vid quite a while ago, but as a CA resident I was interested in the M18 and was curious how the manual safety would further prevent fear of ND/ADs. Since you are so detailed I'd love to see how that works as well. Not sure if you plan on making a vid on it but it would definitely be reassuring. Based on what you have shown and the lack of lawsuits including the M18/M17 models, I'd assume the trigger must have been pulled in all of these scenarios unless the manual safety does more than just prevent trigger movement. Also, I'm sure people would love to see this style vid on the P365 as well (yay, more work for you and hours of editing hahaha)
Thank you! Just your luck, I’m working on a video all about the manual safety and how it works! Including details on mishandling of the trigger. I’m actually shooting it now so I hope to be done in a few more days. If you haven’t already set up notifications (I’m fairly sure that’s the bell icon) and it should let you know when the video drops.
Thanks for another interesting video. I don't yet know whether I'll ever own a Sig P320, but I like understanding all of the issues around their safety.
The problem lies with the trigger being “too” light for people who may only be used to very long trigger travel. Here’s a video where I provide the complete internal explanation about this. P320 - STRIKER SAFETY DISENGAGEMENT PARAMETERS th-cam.com/video/R0MpcFEXWhc/w-d-xo.html
After watching this video, I trust P320. P365 doesn’t have that many safety features e.g. Striker safety. I hope you will make a similar video to show us how safe P365 is. Great job👍🏻
Great explanation and awesome video work! I can easily see this being an exhibit for the defendant in the lawsuit against Sig. Very informative. You earned a Subscribe from me. I am looking through your other videos now...
Very nice video. My contrarian takeaways are that significant motion between the striker and the sear is possible, it appears the striker has to correctly follow a downward slope before it will engage the secondary sear, and motion of that disassembly bar can apply pressure on the sear in the same way depressing the trigger does. The firing pin block is small and depends on a relatively tiny spring. There is also a self-incompatible state the pistol can enter. Disassemble the pistol, return the takedown lever to the normal position, and raise the slide release. Now the little nub has dropped into the cutout in the slide release behind its pivot in the FCU. If you rotate the takedown lever to the disassembly position with the gun in that state, I believe you will put additional stress on some components. In order to get the takedown lever to move freely you have to raise the slide latch and simultaneously pull the trigger while you rotate the takedown lever. None of that is required until after the slide is off the frame and the slide release has clicked from upward motion. I don't know the consequences of adding the extra force required if the slide latch isn't raised and the trigger isn't pulled. Sig is a fine company and the P320 is a very well built mechanism. I worry that there may be vulnerabilities in the design I'm not able to assess. Be safe, guard freedom, and observe care holstering any firearm. And Cooper's four rules, of course.
Thanks for watching! What you described is normal operation for the safety to kick in that help make sure a magazine cannot be inserted. When you turn the lever two things happen, the takedown lever (black bar) moves back, which 1. Prevents the mag insertion, 2. Applies the retention pin (from the slide catch to hold it in place), and 3. Lower the sear so there is no spring tension at the striker. There’s no additional stress as the components are all simple springs (ie: sear springs/slide catch spring/TSL spring), nothing over the tensions usually had when operation is normal. Of course, I only know this because I disassemble and reassemble this thing thousands of times, it’s not really something people think about, or actively engage with on a regular basis as most people don’t break down the system as much as I do to the degree I do. In any case, thanks for reaching out. Let me know if you have any questions. You can always email me at Sigmechanics@gmail.com
I’ve seen the videos, however to date no one has been able to replicate these “events” in a controlled environment in order to prove a defect. It generally looks like the triggers are being pulled sufficiently to discharge. I have made other videos that touch on how much the trigger needs to be pulled. Here’s the link: th-cam.com/video/R0MpcFEXWhc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=JxAR9sDamQlDHu7F
Agreed, there is some interesting engineering that went into it. While working on creating a 3D model, I also came to appreciate how everything you see on the FCU has a functional purpose, down to the curves, though cuts, bends etc. Anyway, thanks for watching. I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Absolutely phenomenal video . I'm not smart enough to figure out how this can fire on it's own . I know that's not what this video is about . I'm just saying I have 0 clue how it can happen after watching this video because I'm not smart enough lol.. Again phenomenal video bro
Thank you! To be really honest, neither can I. I have tried and tested various methods (all of them requiring me to completely remove ALL safety beforehand, and I still cannot make it “go off”. This, plus, no one else (that actually has a dog in this fight) has come up with a method, leads me to believe that there is currently no way to do it. Thanks again!
The channel just passed its 1 year mark last month! It’s growing steadily but I really hope I can ultimately build a solid positive, and helpful community over time. Though I admit seeing the sun count grow is awesome and it shows me that you guys are liking the content. Anyway, thanks for the kind words! Glad to have you here.
I think what may have happened during these unintentional discharges is that secondary ledge failing. What I mean by that is there could be a possibility that in some way or form when the slide is racked and a round is chambered the trigger bar doesn’t lock on to the main seat ledge but the secondary. Given that funny mushy odd feeling you felt and saw that’s what can be causing these firearms to go off when dropped. Since the secondary ledge is the only thing keeping it from firing at this point it may seem that’s where the failure is occurring. Now it didn’t sounds like the firing pin is traveling with as much energy from that point. But it still sounded to me as if it still has sufficient energy to go past the breach and make a round go off. I think the best safety is the traditional plunger safety used on Glock, S&W, Springfield etc
Sig admitted that the testing did not specifically attempt to drop the gun at -30 degrees, they also made a statement saying that when they finally did test it, that the sole cause of the problem was the trigger weight. The secondary ledge was not an issue here, though I would like to test if the second ledge has sufficient force to ignite the primer!
Thank you @Jeremy Weaver. I'm just working through the P320 catalogue, but due to popular demand the P365 is most likely the next model to get the "Sig Mechanics" treatment. Thanks again for watching!
Excellent video! Every P320 video gets a bunch of comments about it being unsafe. The P320 is just as safe as any other striker fired pistol. I have two of them and carry them regularly.
@@deucedeuce1572 I agree. .... Also I am old enough to remember the late 80s and early 90s when police switched from revolvers to Glocks. The big news then was the amazing number of police Glocks going off by them selves and causing "Glock Leg" syndrome. The syndrome was caused by mistakes of the training and the people carrying the weapon. The less margin for error, as in a striker fired pistol, the more training and gun savvy the carrier needs in order to be safe. I am 100 percent pro-police and if they are not comfortable with striker fired pistols, perhaps they should go back to revolvers or hammer fired semi autos. I also predict they will not go back because striker fired guns are cheaper to buy than good hammer fired pistols.
@@JefferyAHoward No doubt. I love Glocks and all, but I think the DA Hammer fired guns are most safe (DA/SA). They're just significantly more expensive though.
I tend to agree with this sentiment. I’m saying this without any actual knowledge as to why they called it an upgrade, but I believe they are able to call it that because, in so much as testing goes, technically they passed all qualifying approvals therefore, I believe they call it an upgrade on a technicality alone. Again, I don’t know if this is true, it’s my personal opinion.
At 17:28 you were able to rack the sear over the safety ledge only. At that point, you should have tested it to see if you could walk the sear past the safety ledge. In case someone only racked it slightly. Because at that point, the firing pin assembly is not pulled as far back.
@drumbyte, interesting thought, I’ll test that next time. I believe it won’t make a difference due to the amount of tolerance between the housing and the slide, there’s just not any play between the two… definitely will try it though. Thanks for watching!
I throughly enjoyed your video, it’s the first one I have seen and definitely looking forward to seeing more. You’re very thorough and precise, some was hard for me to keep up with but I loved every minute. Could you please recommend a book or two that could possibly help me to get a better grasp on this subject or even the theory of firearms,it would be very helpful. Thank you and God bless.
@Boz, I’m glad you enjoyed it! I don’t have any particular books I can recommend, however, the best way to understand firearms is really by demystifying them by means of opening them up and exploring them. Really once you grasp the basics all guns are relatively simple. Anyway, I’m so happy you found the channel and I hope to see you around! Thanks for watching.
This is the most informative thing I’ve seen on this particular set up. What would cause the hook on the striker to catch on the back of the sear and not the hook where it belongs
I might not be understanding what you mean. It sounds like you’re saying that the hook of the striker is only partially seated/tensioned against the sear ledge face. If that’s the case, this has never come up as an issue. Do you have any links to videos or forums where this has been mentioned?
@@SIGMECHANICS this is currently happening to mine. So the sear plate is suppose to slide down slightly so the hook catches the ledge. We’ll mine doesn’t go down. So the hook is catching the back of the sear plate underneath it not allowing the gun to go all the way battery
You can try to remove the slide cap and use a staple or small metal rod to retain the striker, and that can help you visually verify if there’s a problem. I did something similar in this video: scrub to 6:59 to see what I mean. th-cam.com/video/R0MpcFEXWhc/w-d-xo.html If you’re still having issues, feel free to send me an email with pictures of what you mean sigmechanics@gmail.com
What an excellent, informative presentation! I am a factory-certified armorer for the P320, having been to the armorer courses three times, before and after the modification (“upgrade”), but I learned more about the safety features of the pistol from your video than from the courses or all the study I have devoted myself. Thank you.
Woah, thanks @John Stewart, I wish I knew how to pin a comment because that’s probably the greatest compliment one can get. Thanks for watching the video.
I’ve been wanting to do the armorer course for a while now, if anything just to get my hands on that armorers handbook that they give you. Can’t find a upgraded copy online anywhere.
So John do you get one specific task at the armory or multiple things you work on? Also do you see the new “upgrade” really making the p320 safe?
@@Fittednocap Most of what I do as an armorer is simply maintenance: inspections, cleaning beyond what nonspecialist users are permitted or qualified to do, scheduled parts replacements. If there is a problem with a part I will replace it with new. Factory armorer training and certification usually qualifies us to do nothing more than that, and it’s true of the courses I’ve attended. Although certified armorers may make modifications to parts on occasion, that’s usually done without sanction by the manufacturer.
If a shooter has a functioning problem that’s not due to an obviously defective part, then an armorer might diagnose the cause as inadequate cleaning and/or lubrication. If, however, it’s due to shooter error then it becomes a matter of training, and although it may be the same person(s), it’s a different function and responsibility. For example, as the agency firearms instructor I often get complaints that a gun’s sights are not regulated properly. The first thing I do in that situation is fire the gun myself. When I fire a small group at the point of aim, I’ll say, “Okay, the gun is fine. Let’s figure out what might be causing the problem,” and go from there.
Law enforcement agency armorers usually work on more than one type of firearm, but not necessarily always. I currently work on SIG P320 pistols, AR-15 type rifles, and Remington 870 shotguns for the agency. I also train on those weapons, so my cross-familiarity is a benefit.
Based on what I know about the “upgraded” P320, I believe it is drop safe. Not only were the mechanical changes theoretical improvements, but there are countless people who would love to demonstrate that something was still wrong with the gun. That has not happened to my knowledge.
Am I as certain the P320 is as drop safe as a DAK P229? No, but I’m confident enough for me to rely on the gun for serious purposes in serious situations. As Judge Learned Hand observed, “[L]ife is made up of a series of judgements on insufficient data, and if we waited to run down all our doubts, it would flow past us.”
@@johnstewart2011 thank you so much for the reply and making me feel better about my recent purchase. 🙏🏽
That’s encouraging
Phenomenal video. I feel absolutely confident carrying my 320 now.
This is the best video on the P320's safety features and mechanics. The explanation is explained in the most informative manner and the video quality and camera work is above excellent. I bet even Sig could not have come up with video of this quality. As a matter of fact I don't think Sig has been able to produce anything close to the quality of this video. Sig should hire your services.
@FuzzyTube, that’s very kind of you to say! It takes quite a bit of work to make one of these videos, but they seem to be helping a lot of folks, so I’m happy to do it. From what I hear, some sig reps actually have watched this channel and like it! So, hopefully it keeps growing like it has been.
You have explained this system better than anyone I’ve seen. Thanks for taking time to explain these systems.
Hey @arod2104, thank you for taking the time to watch, and thank you for the kind compliment, hope to catch you here again soon!
This is painstaking work to put this together and I learned so much watching it. Thank you for making these!
You’re very welcome. It’s daunting at first but once you do it a few times it very fast and you’ll find yourself taking it down to bare parts even for a quick cleaning.
Glad the video helped! Thanks for watching.
Best video I have seen on the Sig p320. Two things I would add: On some P320 and P365 pistols, the disassembly shaft can pop off the sear when you take the FCU out. It can be a PITA (problem) to get back on top of the sear, so don't let it come loose when taking the FCU out. The other point I would like to make is that NO pistol with a sub 5lb trigger should be carried in anything except a holster. The 320 and 365 cannot be safely carried loose in a purse, pocket, gym bag etc. They must be carried in holster designed specifically for the model. Foreign objects (such the trigger fingers) must be kept out of the trigger guard when re holstering and carrying. This is especially true for police officers who generally have little or no gun training or experience.
Thanks for watching and for your insight. I do have another video I think you will like that is close to your point about carrying. Check out the video on P320 Striker Safety Parameters. I completely agree with your thoughts.
There is a former Seal who carries without a holster, but I still think that you at minimum need a kydex trigger guard that is attatched to your belt so that it gets removed during the draw stroke.
Your videos are very informative and you are helping me to debunk that the P320 is unsafe. Thank you!
Got my very first pistol yesterday, a P320 M18.
I love everything about it, thanks for the great explaination!
This is perhaps the most thorough and detailed video I've ever seen. I really appreciate all of the work and attention to detail
Thank you @Ricky Spanish. I hope the videos help and I’m glad you liked them!
Thank you for the great explanation. I’m more confident in the reliability. Was getting nervous after hearing about those PDs that had “NDs”, but now I’m more confident that it was just their incompetence and trying to save face.
No doubt that some of the AD's are actually due to people being dumb, but I've seen video of a pistol going off in the holster without being handled and this is concerning. But in the video the fellow was getting out of the rear seat of a car and I think this is important and part of what's going on with these pistols. There is considerable play between the slide and frame rails....and ANY play here that allows slide movement relative to the grip is going to be moving the striker up on the sear. Rock the slide back and forth like hitting the grip while the slide is firmly being held by the holster and I think it's possible for the sear to creep up the striker surface enough to release it.
Yes....the striker safety lever 'should' prevent it from going home, but this same slide to rail play also reduces the distance the safety lever is being lifted with every shot to release the striker and I'll bet the guns that are discharging have wear on the interface surfaces on the striker from previous shots where the lever was just barely being lifted enough so it actually is being impacted by the striker with every shot which causes wear.
The whole problem with the guns...IMHO....is the play in the slide to rails which of course some clearance is needed but the guns I've seen do seem to have excessive slop. Combine this with wear then hold the slide in a holster and work the grip back and forth and you can get a discharge. Tighter fitting rail to slide would make the striker safety lift farther when the trigger is activated and release the striker cleanly and also keep the striker down with full sear engagement. I wish the armorers supposedly keeping an eye on these guns had a better idea of what was happening...but good mechanics are hard to find and this is very likely what is going wrong with these pistols.
I actually showcased this a bit in my video about P320 striker safety parameters (about 6 minutes in), take a look and let me know your thoughts.
@@SIGMECHANICS OK...I just rewatched (and thanks for your prompt reply!) and you might be on to another part of the problem with how the slide release interfaces with the sear. Stuck in a tight fitting holster the slide release might be slightly depressed which then allows the sear to move downward out of engagement. If this is part of the problem then it would be difficult to diagnose when just examining the pistol as it could be functioning just fine out of the holster but be put into a precarious situation while up in the holster where this cannot be seen.
Somebody is dropping the ball here when trying to diagnose what 's happening and for sure with the tens of thousands of 320's out in service that the 'problem' isn't more widespread if there was actually a defect in the gun itself. The PD chose that particular holster and I've been wondering how many other departments are using the same ones?
Any idea what exact holster model that was. Maybe I can buy one for testing.
@@SIGMECHANICS No...sorry, I just spent some time searching for the holster and can't find it. Everyone seems to be blaming the pistol for 'going off in the holster' but nobody is talking about WHICH holster this happens in. Are all the AD"s using the same one?
Wondering now if the positive retention device they have to be using is part of what's going on? A buddy of mine makes holsters and they don't do PD versions because of all the hoops they'd have to jump through with retention specs. If the slide is being tightly held, then the retention strap pushes down on the grip....it would be trying to constantly separate them thus lifting the striker up off of the sear. Wiggle it around and throw in a bit of extra play in the slide release lever to grip clearance and I can see how they could be going off.
Everyone is focusing on the pistol...but with the holster they form a system and that second part of the system might be where some of the problem lies.
Did they issue new holsters when switching to the 320's from the S&W's they'd been using before? This line of questioning might offer some insight as to what's going on.
I have 2 p320's and love them both. My daily carry.
As a first time SIG owner, I hadn't learned about the issues surrounding concern for it till literally this morning. But seeing this video have eased my worries for sure. They went above and beyond to make this thing safe.
There’s a lot of videos out there that I believe discuss the P320 as “unsafe” because the fear draws viewership, it’s perpetuated by other videos like the one that lawyer posted a few years ago, showing inaccurate tolerances between parts. I’ve played around and broke the P320 numerous times in order to see it’s limits and I have to say, I feel this pistol is perfectly safe, although not for everyone because we all have a style and way of managing our guns. Anyway, im glad to have you here and that you enjoyed the video!
In my opinion, don't fuck with any gun that doesn't have an external safety. I think at the most I'd maybe trust p226 series, but the rest are Darwin awards waiting to happen.
@SIG MECHANICS I think it's interesting to note that you're stating your feelings, thus no guarantees obviously implied. I believe between the p320 series and glocks, functioning on a "as long as outside of trigger gaurd" concept is plain asking for it. I think this has been tried much longer before these pistols, didn't work then either. One ND, is one too many.
@@Standforwhatsright33external safeties can and will fail too.
I watched this video after the announcement of the most recent major lawsuit against Sig with regard to their P320 uncommanded discharge allegations. I personally own 6- P320’s, 2 of which are USPSA CO competition guns with 2# triggers, non of which I have ever had an issue with regarding uncommanded discharge. Until watching your video, I thought I had an understanding of the inner workings of my pistols. Your video was a plethora of great new information and gave me a better understanding of the gun. Sig Sauer can use your video as the entire basis for their defense. The guns design is pure genius especially in the redundancy of their safety mechanisms without compromising competition performance. I have taken my 2# competition 320 Legions loaded with a “laser” bullet and tried to get them to discharge while hitting it with a rubber mallet from multiple directions. I was unsuccessful in getting them to fire. Based on my very unsuccessful & unscientific testing, it is my opinion that Sig Sauer will prevail in this lawsuit if they don’t settle. Also I consider the fact that most of the plaintiffs are in law enforcement. A LEO who has an AD has a lot of explaining to do and even faces reprimand or worse. It’s a lot easier to blame the gun or someone else rather than take responsibility for your own actions (just saying). Sig has deep pockets and even a settlement will leave the plaintiffs with a bundle. To Sig I say, fight it. Your product is as safe as any firearm can be. Settling will just open the door to a multitude of others looking for an easy payout. Let the plaintiffs attorneys waste their money and loose so others won’t follow suit.
Thanks again for their absolutely great video. The videography & explanation was terrific.
Thank you for your insight!
I agree with you for the most part as I cannot find a way to make this gun fail without damaging the parts (and I have tried whole heartedly to do so).
Realistically if I did find a way, I would be the first to share it along with all the variables, parameters and methods of doing so in order to assure Sig did their part to either take the gun out of circulation or fix it.
That being said, I feel most anyone trying to sue is doing the same and I would expect this information to be made public, but so far, no one has done so and I feel like it will not likely ever happen.
In any case, I’m glad that you enjoyed the videos and I’m happy to have you as part of this community! Also thank you for the kind words. I hope that you will continue to enjoy the new stuff I’m putting working on now.
@SIG MECHANICS I did see someone mention that one of the reasons for the guns discharging was a part that once worn down, it places the gun at risk for self discharge. This made some sense since the pistols that had problems were high round competition guns, or pistols issued at police stations.
Unfortunately I can't be 100% certain, and I feel that the best solution is to buy a model with a manual safety.
Any idea as to which part wearing down they are referring to? Two of my 320’s are high round count guns. Since every part is very easily replaceable I would like to keep an eye on things. When I clean my guns I always inspect my sear, striker and other critical parts for abnormalities. Even with the high round counts, everything looks like and functions like new. Thanks for the comment.
@@Osprey1994 Pistols issued to police are high round count? LOL
Hands down the best firearms videos on TH-cam
@Dave Adams, that is very kind of you to say. I’m glad you’re enjoying the videos, I’m looking forward to all the new stuff coming up!
This is EXACTLY what I needed. I would absolutely pay for videos like these. Thank you very much!
Awesome video on the P320 safety mechanisms, as a 1st time Sig owner I was a little skeptical without having a trigger shoe safety (like on most other guns). But now I understand there are actually more internal safeties on Sigs than most other guns.
@Baba Yaga, thank you! Yes, there is surprisingly little out there on what the P320 offers past the obvious. I'm glad you stopped by and found the video helpful!
Well that dummied it down for me so refreshing to see someone who knows what they are talking about. Great informative video ty
Thank you! And thanks for taking the time to watch!!
It's crazy how much is going on in there. The inside of the AR platform is so simple in comparison.
Absolutely fantastic visual explanation of how the SIG FCU works and the functioning of its safeties. Your effort is very much appreciated! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
really excellent! Well done I now understand how it works which gives me more confidence in the 320x.
I can only imagine how much time and effort it took to make these high quality videos. All I can say its thank you and it is much appreciated!
It takes quite a while for some of them but I’m happy to do it! Thanks for watching!!
A fantastic presentation! You are extremely knowledgeable, and your presentation is so clear.
Excellent video , thank you for taking time to go so much in details . As a gunsmith i also learned more details about p320 safety mechanisms. Awaiting more videos like this 👌🏻
Priceless information here for SIG owners. Thank you for making time to create these amazing videos so beautifully.
Thank you!
I wish you would have done this video years ago. Thanks for taking the time. It was very informative. I might even start carrying my 320 again.
Glad it was helpful! I also wish I did this years ago, I never realized how much people wanted this type of information until now.
Glad you enjoyed the video and glad to have you here!
@@SIGMECHANICS I know this video is not about your opinion. But I'll be picking up my P320 XCARRY SPECTRE soon. I'm a glock guy. Would you say the p320 is safe to carry?
I have 3 320's. Your video proves the gun is well designed and safe
Excellent video. Forwarded to Sig forum for more to watch. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! I’ll be trying to drop new stuff at least every month as I attempt to get all the P320 stuff completed before moving on to another firearm and giving it the same in depth treatment. Speaking of which I’m just finishing up one for this next week. Thanks for watching!
Спасибо за видеоурок,вы провели его на высоком профессиональном уровне🤝👍
Thank you. I am very glad you found the video useful.
First ive known about the secondary sear face ledge. That should calm many of the neigh sayer’s fears
Thank you for posting this. I suspect that either unfamiliarity with the product or a another misunderstanding could be what caused the Posting about the 320's firing without pulling the trigger. My buddy has 2 and he told m the information was bogus.
This is one of the best explanations of the FCU and such. Great informative video man.
Thank you! And thanks for watching!
Fantastic job, especially the close ups to see the internals clearly. Thank you!
320 is such a cool firearm. Best-looking striker pistol with one of the best triggers. I miss my XCompact sometimes, wish I didn’t sell it.
great info hoping Sig keeps making parts for their manual safety for the p320's
Absolutely fantastic video! Informative and concise like no one I know of has ever done. Thank you! 👍
@Al Caruso, oh wow, thanks! That’s very kind of you to say. Thanks for watching!
Glock always reminds me to double check the chamber is clear before pulling the trigger pre takedown.
That is the best explanation of the P320. Well done
Thank you.
Another function of the disconnector is to disengage the trigger bar from the sear as the slide moves backwards after the gun is fired. This allows the sear to pop back up so that it will catch the striker when the slide moves forward again. The snap you feel when the trigger resets is the trigger bar snapping back into position on the sear.
You are absolutely correct.
I went a bit more in detail about that in the last video I posted comparing pre vs. Post upgrade models. (For anyone reading this and might be interested, scrub to about 6:54 on that video)
Thanks for pointing that out, and for watching!
Maybe you can do a comparison video between the P320 & P365 since the P365 is so closely related mechanically and it’s considered a safe weapon.
The safety in the P365 is fundamentally different. It's a plunger safety akin to what you have in a Glock.
@@Osprey1994I wonder what made Sig change to that style?
Excellent presentation. One of the best I have seen!
very helpful, thank you! I'm hesitant to carry my p320, got it in the custom FCU form so should be post upgrade. This will help assuage my fears of carrying it hopefully!
You're welcome. I didn't want to leave any of my personal opinions on the video, but I can say here that the sear either has to move down (so the striker can fire) or, the striker would have to jump up 1mm distance to clear the sear ledge. (This is also assuming the striker's safety is somehow compromised).
Therefore, if you look at the design of the striker housing, you can see there is such a tight tolerance between it and the actual slide that any upward pressure i put on the striker leg would basically just transfer to the slide. I didn't see any way for the striker body/leg to lift up a full 1mm to actually clear the sear ledge so, I couldn't see a way for it to fail without some sort of critical malfunction on either a lot of other parts or specifically, the sear being moved. Hopefully someone else may have some insight to that science though.
Thanks for watching!
@@SIGMECHANICS another question, what does the manual safety mechanically do, should you have a model with a manual thumb safety? I don't but have always toyed with the idea of getting a m18 also
@@dukeofcai it locks in to the rear of the trigger bar making it impossible for the trigger bar to move at all. This prevents the safety lever from moving at all, thus the striker safety is never disengaged without catastrophic failure.
@@gh0st-6 got it, thanks. So the manual safety doesnt interact with the sear directly, only indirectly via trigger bar.
@@reachblowsdick7222 thats the case for any fully tensioned striker pistol, no?
I trusted the 320 to be safe after the recall, but I never understood the mechanisms of what actually made the gun safe. This is an excellent video, greatly upping my trust in the 320. Does the 365 have the same type of safety mechanisms inside?
The 365 is a plunger safety
No I don’t think so. If the lug on the striker was to break off, the gun will fire
Thank you for making this video!
I’ve been looking at the p320 series and honestly wanted to objectively know more about the guns safety…over the copy pasta “p320 drop fire” or “p320 fires randomly”
Thank you for this!
Thank you for watching. Yes, it’s getting a little tiring that every video talks about the same thing without any evidence of un-commanded discharge, or a drop safety problem from 2017 that has since been resolved. But fear gets the views on TH-cam so I guess we have to get used to it.
@@SIGMECHANICS yeah true. More clicks to say a gun many people probably carry can go off at any time.
When those “uncommanded discharges” were results of improper handling and poorly trained officers . And lawsuits designed to bankrupt gun manufacturers. Not the stuff people should be latching onto imo.
It really is unfortunate though.
Thank you for making this, it’s really cool seeing the internals of how a gun works in general!
Another winning production and presentation.
Thank you!
I trust your video rather than people claiming the p320 discharges on its own
Thank you so much for this absolutely amazing in-depth explanation of these functions
@Bang Bang. You are very welcome, and thank you for watching!
Thankyou for your presentation. I enjoyed this lesson thoroughly!
@Pat Brown, Thank you! I’m always happy when I hear someone enjoys what I’m going here!
I’ve gotta say, nice visual presentations… Love how you set up the displays with real working parts, and your recording is also top notch!!! Still wanna know where you got that highly polished FCU, and now I noticed something else I’m desiring, an original take down lever. Yeah, I notice things… it’s how I survived this long when I really shouldn’t have 😅😂🤣 anyway, keep up the great vids. I recently put a flat trigger in my M17 and afterwards it started making a clicking noise after it was fired, before it was reset and with the safety on. I knew it couldn’t be much cuz everything was functional. It was a little piece of plastic, mim, at the bottom of the safety lever that kinda sits between the FCU and the trigger bar. A little lube and it was all better… but without your videos I wouldn’t have even tried to change my trigger, let alone go in after and figure out that little sound. Here’s a question, what resets the striker, the sear… when the slide cycles? I always thought that the sear stayed in the “fired” position until it reset??? I’m confused on how they’re both reset… after pulling the trigger, the trigger bar is now in front of the sear and the sear is lower in the sear housing , isn’t it? And the striker is forward?
Just strip your FCU and polish it. That simple. Strip it with youtube videos, get some Mothers mag polish and a microfiber rag and start rubbing. I have mine more polished than his. Whole thing is like a mirror. FCU, trigger bar, sear and safety. All butter smooth. Also, Thats an Armory Craft Sport Takedown lever.
Your videos are incredibly clear and informative.
Thank you. Amazing
Thank you!
These are great videos very informative. They greatly help the end user (me) understand the function of the p320. Thank you so much!
Thank you, that’s exactly why I thought these videos should be out here for.
Always glad to hear someone found this useful.
I just subscribed. This is the best mechanical video I’ve ever seen, and it is very reassuring as I own a P320C.
@Doc Bailey! I'm glad I could help. Let me know if there is anything you may be interested in for in future videos. Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks for the info. My understanding from this, is that it is near impossible for the gun to fire WITHOUT pulling the trigger. Right?
@Robert Silveus, up until now I’ve not found any evidence that the gun can discharge without a trigger pull.
In fact, from what I saw and tested, so long as the trigger is not engaged, the firearm will actively prevent discharge.
I’ve got a video on this topic coming within the week so I hope you get a chance to check it out. If you’re subscribed then you’ll be notified though.
Thanks for watching!
This is an incredible video. Your channel needs to blow up and become huge. Fantastic content sir.
Thanks. To be honest I’m kind of surprised it’s gotten to the point it already has. A few months back it was just me talking about a trigger job I did, now three months later we’re about to hit 1000 subscribers.
I’m glad you liked the video, hope you stick around for more!
Very good explanation !!
Thank you very much 👍👍👍
You’re welcome, thanks for watching!
This is very important it actually discussed the exact same theory that I saw in another simulation and I am no not so skeptical about the P320
@Thomas White. Yeah, sometimes it’s easier after you get the full scope of what’s there. That way you can break down the information and allow yourself to logically make theories and confirm them because you then understand all the fine details behind it. Anyway, thanks for watching!
People seem to not know or forget that Glocks are essentially about 30% cocked. As you press the trigger you continue to undressed tension on the firing pin spring. Current striker fired guns are mostly 100% cocked. This is one reason out of the box Glocks tend to have triggers worse than the competitors
Excellent explanation. I've been looking to get this gun but recently heard about the allegations of the lack of safety. This video is very reassuring. Thank you.
I’m glad these videos could provide some reassurance. Thanks for watching!
I’d love to see this done with a manual safety version!
Please please please.
Please!
Agreed. I am having a hard time accepting that the upgrade will prevent an accidental discharge when holstering etc.
@@bmerceri69 why is that?
!id300129, Stick with me I have a bunch of new stuff coming that you will like then.
Another great video. Thanks you!
I saw some videos that mentioned that the weight (mass) of the trigger is part of the flaw of the safety of the P320? I believe it mentioned that the older design of the trigger has enough mass to “pull” the trigger when the gun is dropped, and that renders the other safety mechanism useless. Again, thanks for such a great video! Can’t wait to see what you’ll have coming up!
The "trigger mass" issue and other issues, were all corrected in the late 2017 "voluntary upgrade" and also implemented on all P320s manufactured after that time.
Originally they didn't have the other safety features. If you take off your slide and look by the striker safety release you'll see an unfinished milled out spot where the safety from the FCU rises up into and allows the trigger bar to travel. Also, the sear and point on the striker where it engages the sear is an all new design. People who are blaming the P320 for firing by itself are just "mostly, mainly" covering for their own lack of trigger discipline.
@@reachblowsdick7222 I’ve heard, now I don’t have proof, but I’ve heard that that case, that they’ve got video of it just going off getting out of the vehicle that they were using the wrong holster for the gun. Like I said, wasn’t there, no proof, but from what I’ve heard. And then there’s the female officer who was shot, she had it in her purse with no holster, from what I heard… everything isn’t always black and white, lots of grey. I don’t know, what I do know is that the P320 is a good pistol and I wouldn’t think twice about carrying it, but… it’s too big for that, at least mine is; M17. But I do have a P365XL I carry. I’m not afraid of carrying that. And, both of mine have manual safeties. I have no idea how this became a problem to flick off a safety before you shoot your gun. I believe it’s stupid. Should I leave the safety off on my shotgun while walking through the old field in case a double woodcock goes out and I may miss one??? Fuck no!!! Just becomes second nature to flick it off as you’re shouldering the damn gun. Or going up through the creek bottom and you bounce a couple whitetail, should I have my safety off for that????
@@reachblowsdick7222 I’m not going back and forth with you here about this, and no, I don’t know who Ash Hess is except that he’s some guy involved in a lot of things military, guns and ammo and probably a whole bunch more stuff… but I’m expressing my opinion and I didn’t buy my M17 because some other person gave an opinion for or against it. I was actually going to buy a Glock and then I saw the M17 there and asked to see it and I liked it and bought it. I had actually completely forgotten about the P320. My first choice was actually the P365XL and I couldn’t activate the mag release good. So, then I was thinking about a Taurus G3, Glock 19 or the Beretta. If I had thought of getting an aftermarket mag release for the P365XL, I’d probably have bought it and been done with it. The Taurus and Beretta were the first to get knocked off the list and I had actually been in the store to buy it that day, and again, if I had thought of aftermarket mag release for the Glock, I’d probably have walked out the door with it… but standing there holding it and not being able to manipulate the mag release well I was disappointed but was still just thinking I’d have to get used to it. But that’s when I saw the M17. It just felt right in my hand… and with two spare 21 round mags, I was sold. I have since went back and bought the P365XL and an aftermarket mag release. But I’m not going to stop carrying my M17 until I feel it’s unsafe. Why not the P365XL??? It’s basically the same sear and striker interface, isn’t it.
@@reachblowsdick7222 wrong... but I'm done. Have a good day.
Absolutely unbelievable detail and knowledge in this video. Thanks very much for the effort 🙏
And PS this is very informative I wish I would have found this video a day or two ago before changing my sear springs and having to lean all this the hard way
Best video to date to prove Sig,s defense
I recently picked up a pre up graded P320 in excellent condition. The date on the box was 5/26/2015. I made a similar set up to your striker retainer. My intention was to see if the striker block worked. After loading a primed case I pushed down on the sear. I did this 10 times. Each time the striker block did it's job. With the addition of the safety notch on the up graded P320's it's obvious to me that these guns just don't discharge on their own
Yeah, I have to agree. The safety lever on the striker is not there as a manual safety. (Nor was it ever marketed as such), It’s there as a method to prevent a specific thing from happening.
Basically, if the sear or striker ever malfunction, the gun won’t fire. If you touch the trigger it will. For some reason there is a debate on why it won’t prevent the gun from firing IF you pull the trigger. Which wasn’t the point.
Good on you for trying and testing things for yourself! I’m working on a video for this right now and I think I’ll incorporate this into that.
Very informative video…Please send this video to EVERY lawyer trying to justify this gun discharging on its own!!!
Just wanted to thank you for your efforts for this outstanding video. Well, done I’m self taught armorer who wants to understand the functions of the different pistols that I own you, sir make that possible thank you again John
I’m glad I could help in your armorers journey! I’ll be working on various sig firearms over time, hoping to also include 3d models for each one.
14:30 I think when you tried to slip the striker lug over the sear, you inadvertently placed your hand on top of the slide and clamped down on it. If there was any chance on making the lug slip past the sear, you'd have to expand the gap (do the opposite of what you did)... by taking advantage of the clearance between the slide and rails (maybe slightly out of spec, or very worn slide rails, etc...). You'd want to play with the lug while trying to SEPARATE the slide from the frame. Maybe set up a small pry bar and try to widen the gap then play with it.
Ah yes, to simulate a small pry bar entering your pocket and separating the slide from the body of the grip. Happens all the time, I alway say before calling a gun safe, “we’ll have you tried damaging it first?”
@@KingPhilipsRideshare I think you took my request a little too far. I didn't mean to try to "wreck it". Anyone knows when you insert a fully loaded mag (how you should be carrying a gun), there's significant spring pressure pressing up on the slide trying to separate it from the lower frame. Everyone competent around guns knows this. If you dry fire without a loaded mag and with a loaded mag you can even witness the slide movement between the two. With the loaded mag, there's no slide movement because the spring pressure is enough to push the slide as far up as it can go against the rails.
He did the opposite by wrapping this hands over the slide and pressed down (opposite condition of what it is to actually carry it in real life). All I'm saying is that he inadvertently introduced a variable that would never be present when actually carrying the gun. A much better scenario is to try to simulate the situation while carrying a fully loaded mag - which means trying to separate the slide from the frame as he conducts the tests. Get it?
@@anonypersona3189 ok yes I get it now you are spot on
Came here to comment this, but you’re correct. The walking off would only happen without any downward pressure being applied onto the slide, which was the case here. Not to say that it would have made a difference in the outcome for this particular test, but that would’ve been the proper way to conduct the test. In your opinion, what do you think of SIG’s striker assembly design/safety mechanisms? I’ve gone down the rabbit hole, and it seems like manufacturing defects and tolerances aside, Glock seems to have the best overall.
Even if he managed to get that to slip over the sear, the striker safety lever would have prevented the striker from moving forward enough to fire a round.
I love my Compact P320.
No problem's with the gun.
Incredible Firearm. If I started carrying in public, This would be my Gun. Great Gun, and I will own it,till I die.
@David Funke. Agreed, not to mention there is just something about the compact that just “feels” right in your hand.
Fantastic Video! I know you made this vid quite a while ago, but as a CA resident I was interested in the M18 and was curious how the manual safety would further prevent fear of ND/ADs. Since you are so detailed I'd love to see how that works as well. Not sure if you plan on making a vid on it but it would definitely be reassuring. Based on what you have shown and the lack of lawsuits including the M18/M17 models, I'd assume the trigger must have been pulled in all of these scenarios unless the manual safety does more than just prevent trigger movement. Also, I'm sure people would love to see this style vid on the P365 as well (yay, more work for you and hours of editing hahaha)
Thank you! Just your luck, I’m working on a video all about the manual safety and how it works! Including details on mishandling of the trigger.
I’m actually shooting it now so I hope to be done in a few more days. If you haven’t already set up notifications (I’m fairly sure that’s the bell icon) and it should let you know when the video drops.
@@SIGMECHANICS Awesome! I look forward to it! Thank you.
Thanks for another interesting video. I don't yet know whether I'll ever own a Sig P320, but I like understanding all of the issues around their safety.
Thank you!
All this info means nothing when the gun is going off by itself hahahahahah
The problem lies with the trigger being “too” light for people who may only be used to very long trigger travel. Here’s a video where I provide the complete internal explanation about this.
P320 - STRIKER SAFETY DISENGAGEMENT PARAMETERS
th-cam.com/video/R0MpcFEXWhc/w-d-xo.html
This is very informative, which makes me question the lawsuit against this gun even more.
Thank you for making this video!
Hi @Christopher Oliver. It is my pleasure. Thanks for watching!
Thank you. Very helpful to understand how the 320 works and give me peace of mind. Is this the same for the p365 as well?
A P365 version of this would be phenonmenal.
Working on it!
After watching this video, I trust P320. P365 doesn’t have that many safety features e.g. Striker safety. I hope you will make a similar video to show us how safe P365 is. Great job👍🏻
Thanks! I’m working on getting there! Just want to finish up all the P320 stuff as quickly as I can first.
Thanks for watching!
Excellent video. Thanks for putting that together. Very informative.
Wow what an excellent video
Thank you!
Man, you are killing it as usual. Awesome video!!!! Thanks.
@Clint Levine. Thanks!
Great explanation and awesome video work! I can easily see this being an exhibit for the defendant in the lawsuit against Sig. Very informative. You earned a Subscribe from me. I am looking through your other videos now...
Ha! Showing up in the court exhibits would be an honor. I’m glad you enjoyed the video and I’m glad to have you aboard!
Brilliant - thanks so much 🙌🏻👏🏻
Very nice video.
My contrarian takeaways are that significant motion between the striker and the sear is possible, it appears the striker has to correctly follow a downward slope before it will engage the secondary sear, and motion of that disassembly bar can apply pressure on the sear in the same way depressing the trigger does. The firing pin block is small and depends on a relatively tiny spring.
There is also a self-incompatible state the pistol can enter. Disassemble the pistol, return the takedown lever to the normal position, and raise the slide release. Now the little nub has dropped into the cutout in the slide release behind its pivot in the FCU.
If you rotate the takedown lever to the disassembly position with the gun in that state, I believe you will put additional stress on some components. In order to get the takedown lever to move freely you have to raise the slide latch and simultaneously pull the trigger while you rotate the takedown lever. None of that is required until after the slide is off the frame and the slide release has clicked from upward motion.
I don't know the consequences of adding the extra force required if the slide latch isn't raised and the trigger isn't pulled.
Sig is a fine company and the P320 is a very well built mechanism. I worry that there may be vulnerabilities in the design I'm not able to assess.
Be safe, guard freedom, and observe care holstering any firearm. And Cooper's four rules, of course.
Thanks for watching! What you described is normal operation for the safety to kick in that help make sure a magazine cannot be inserted. When you turn the lever two things happen, the takedown lever (black bar) moves back, which 1. Prevents the mag insertion, 2. Applies the retention pin (from the slide catch to hold it in place), and 3. Lower the sear so there is no spring tension at the striker. There’s no additional stress as the components are all simple springs (ie: sear springs/slide catch spring/TSL spring), nothing over the tensions usually had when operation is normal.
Of course, I only know this because I disassemble and reassemble this thing thousands of times, it’s not really something people think about, or actively engage with on a regular basis as most people don’t break down the system as much as I do to the degree I do.
In any case, thanks for reaching out. Let me know if you have any questions. You can always email me at Sigmechanics@gmail.com
@@SIGMECHANICS Thank you, sir. My alarm was probably from caution over forcing the mechanism. Be well!
Lots of great information. Thank you!
*Goes off in Cop’s holster.*
I’ve seen the videos, however to date no one has been able to replicate these “events” in a controlled environment in order to prove a defect. It generally looks like the triggers are being pulled sufficiently to discharge. I have made other videos that touch on how much the trigger needs to be pulled. Here’s the link: th-cam.com/video/R0MpcFEXWhc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=JxAR9sDamQlDHu7F
No it doesn't.
What an amazing design. Makes me trust the system even more!
Agreed, there is some interesting engineering that went into it. While working on creating a 3D model, I also came to appreciate how everything you see on the FCU has a functional purpose, down to the curves, though cuts, bends etc.
Anyway, thanks for watching. I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
@@SIGMECHANICS Can you do a video on the model? Like the video "How a Glock Works". It got 84M views. Just Title it "How a Sig Works". Boom 50M views.
Great idea! When I get some time to render everything I think I’ll do that. Thanks!
Your video is very informational and I would feel very safe using the Sig P320, after upgrade
Top notch video. Enjoyed it. Thank you.
Absolutely phenomenal video . I'm not smart enough to figure out how this can fire on it's own . I know that's not what this video is about . I'm just saying I have 0 clue how it can happen after watching this video because I'm not smart enough lol..
Again phenomenal video bro
Thank you! To be really honest, neither can I. I have tried and tested various methods (all of them requiring me to completely remove ALL safety beforehand, and I still cannot make it “go off”. This, plus, no one else (that actually has a dog in this fight) has come up with a method, leads me to believe that there is currently no way to do it. Thanks again!
Nice video with good details. I was wondering on how thick the safety/trigger bars are?
How does this channel not have more subs!?!?
The channel just passed its 1 year mark last month! It’s growing steadily but I really hope I can ultimately build a solid positive, and helpful community over time.
Though I admit seeing the sun count grow is awesome and it shows me that you guys are liking the content.
Anyway, thanks for the kind words! Glad to have you here.
Excellent information and presentation! THANK YOU!
Hey @Ben Beverly, thank you!
@@SIGMECHANICS Hey Edmond! My pleasure! :)
I think what may have happened during these unintentional discharges is that secondary ledge failing.
What I mean by that is there could be a possibility that in some way or form when the slide is racked and a round is chambered the trigger bar doesn’t lock on to the main seat ledge but the secondary.
Given that funny mushy odd feeling you felt and saw that’s what can be causing these firearms to go off when dropped.
Since the secondary ledge is the only thing keeping it from firing at this point it may seem that’s where the failure is occurring.
Now it didn’t sounds like the firing pin is traveling with as much energy from that point. But it still sounded to me as if it still has sufficient energy to go past the breach and make a round go off.
I think the best safety is the traditional plunger safety used on Glock, S&W, Springfield etc
Sig admitted that the testing did not specifically attempt to drop the gun at -30 degrees, they also made a statement saying that when they finally did test it, that the sole cause of the problem was the trigger weight. The secondary ledge was not an issue here, though I would like to test if the second ledge has sufficient force to ignite the primer!
Great video. I’d love to see something similar for the P365.
Thank you @Jeremy Weaver. I'm just working through the P320 catalogue, but due to popular demand the P365 is most likely the next model to get the "Sig Mechanics" treatment. Thanks again for watching!
Amazing videos, I was shocked to see you only have 9k subscribers.
Thanks! I’ve only started a year ago, but it’s growing steadily!
Outstanding presentation! Super helpful information!
Thank you @Rick Renkiewicz! I’m always glad to hear these videos are helping others in our community. Thanks for watching!
Excellent video! Every P320 video gets a bunch of comments about it being unsafe. The P320 is just as safe as any other striker fired pistol. I have two of them and carry them regularly.
No doubt. Like Glocks, they only fire when the trigger is pulled. Some people would say Glocks are unsafe too though.
@@deucedeuce1572 I agree. .... Also I am old enough to remember the late 80s and early 90s when police switched from revolvers to Glocks. The big news then was the amazing number of police Glocks going off by them selves and causing "Glock Leg" syndrome. The syndrome was caused by mistakes of the training and the people carrying the weapon. The less margin for error, as in a striker fired pistol, the more training and gun savvy the carrier needs in order to be safe.
I am 100 percent pro-police and if they are not comfortable with striker fired pistols, perhaps they should go back to revolvers or hammer fired semi autos. I also predict they will not go back because striker fired guns are cheaper to buy than good hammer fired pistols.
@@JefferyAHoward No doubt. I love Glocks and all, but I think the DA Hammer fired guns are most safe (DA/SA). They're just significantly more expensive though.
@@deucedeuce1572 I 100 percent agree.
RIP your benis
Funny how they call an essential safety recall an upgrade.
I tend to agree with this sentiment. I’m saying this without any actual knowledge as to why they called it an upgrade, but I believe they are able to call it that because, in so much as testing goes, technically they passed all qualifying approvals therefore, I believe they call it an upgrade on a technicality alone. Again, I don’t know if this is true, it’s my personal opinion.
At 17:28 you were able to rack the sear over the safety ledge only. At that point, you should have tested it to see if you could walk the sear past the safety ledge. In case someone only racked it slightly. Because at that point, the firing pin assembly is not pulled as far back.
@drumbyte, interesting thought, I’ll test that next time. I believe it won’t make a difference due to the amount of tolerance between the housing and the slide, there’s just not any play between the two… definitely will try it though. Thanks for watching!
I throughly enjoyed your video, it’s the first one I have seen and definitely looking forward to seeing more.
You’re very thorough and precise, some was hard for me to keep up with but I loved every minute. Could you please recommend a book or two that could possibly help me to get a better grasp on this subject or even the theory of firearms,it would be very helpful. Thank you and God bless.
@Boz, I’m glad you enjoyed it! I don’t have any particular books I can recommend, however, the best way to understand firearms is really by demystifying them by means of opening them up and exploring them. Really once you grasp the basics all guns are relatively simple. Anyway, I’m so happy you found the channel and I hope to see you around! Thanks for watching.
This is the most informative thing I’ve seen on this particular set up. What would cause the hook on the striker to catch on the back of the sear and not the hook where it belongs
I’m not sure what you mean. The striker hook is supposed to contact and catch the sear ledge.
@@SIGMECHANICS it’s not it’s catching the complete back of the sear plate. Behind the ledge
I might not be understanding what you mean. It sounds like you’re saying that the hook of the striker is only partially seated/tensioned against the sear ledge face. If that’s the case, this has never come up as an issue. Do you have any links to videos or forums where this has been mentioned?
@@SIGMECHANICS this is currently happening to mine. So the sear plate is suppose to slide down slightly so the hook catches the ledge. We’ll mine doesn’t go down. So the hook is catching the back of the sear plate underneath it not allowing the gun to go all the way battery
You can try to remove the slide cap and use a staple or small metal rod to retain the striker, and that can help you visually verify if there’s a problem. I did something similar in this video: scrub to 6:59 to see what I mean.
th-cam.com/video/R0MpcFEXWhc/w-d-xo.html
If you’re still having issues, feel free to send me an email with pictures of what you mean sigmechanics@gmail.com
nice mirrior polish on the fcu
I want try out a sig, I hear they shoot really good.