Question not related to this video. I have seen a video where you say that a man becomes a man when his dad dies. Do you think it could be the same or similar for women? I’ve known of 2 men that when their mom died was when their lives changed.
JP I have few questions and observations. If you want your missionary propaganda to succeed than go on but if you are a real seeker and if you really are not a zombie missionary then do the following: 1. Bring a pro Hindu person to talk about Hindus because you are a declared missionary now. 2. If it's possible come out of your prejudice and hate for a culture which you know through only another zombie missionary. 3. When you discussed Islam you brought a pro Islam person but when you discussed Hinduism you brought a zombie missionary that's sad. 4. JP just be aware that Karma is so real that zombie missionary can't grasp it so talk to some level headed Yogi. 5. Caste system is not the bed rock of India period. 6. If you are a reasonable person as you project bring a Hindu saint to discuss and let me see if you even stand a chance fir missionary propaganda.
@@shravyaamin8346 Because he used some straw man arguments in his talks, which missionaries have used for generations ............ If you want to know what he said wrong about then watch the full series of refutation of this talk In " Sangam Talks " or "Jaipur dialogues" TH-cam channel
@@shravyaamin8346 lol 😂 point is that Mughals only built taj mahal and s.. but never worked for the betterment of public. I.e universities, centre of knowledge,facilities medical . That’s why their name is synonym with ayyashi. Randi and handi is reason for their downfall . Get it?
It's fascinating to read the responses here which try to defend the Hindu faith and their holy book. Culture is downstream from religion. Prior to Christianity, India was a dark place that had manifest classes of society in which there were severe differences in rights and privileges. While those classes have always existed, it was exacerbated in the Indian culture. Christianity began the dismantling of this terrible system of oppression. The dismantling needs to continue.
The more I learn about history from different perspectives, the more I realize how misled my entire generation has been. It's depressing, and we have yet to see the implications of such flawed education across the entirety of the western world.
I wholeheartedly agree!! I strongly resonate with your statement. I also feel the same way about many subjects in education beyond history. One being economics and how the Keynesian school is just assumed to be best. Marxism is discussed but the Chicago and Austrian schools are hardly mentioned if at all. The idea of Archetypes is another one. I was taught that Archetypes are simply a theme people make up and copy off of such as Damsel in Distress. On that level it seems so patriarchal and chauvinistic. But Dr Peterson has shown me the truth. Archetypes are part of our collective subconscious and we are predisposed to understanding them. How intriguing and novel!
The world tries so hard to disparage Christianity, but after listening to this, once again I am reminded that the truth is, the entire civilized world owes it's ideas of equality, tolerance, justice etc..., to Christianity. Progressives hate the church and go out of their way to try and paint the history of the Church as evil, but the truth is, even progressives concepts of evil, of right and wrong, was appropriated from Christianity.
@@matthewsilver5455 I love your point about archetypes being something we are predisposed to understanding. I believe this to be the case. It's so odd, the lay-man, who hasn't read a lot (I include myself in all this), isn't traditionally educated, hasn't been exposed to the well fleshed-out meanings behind archetypes, can still watch a great film or see a great president etc, and feels within them the biological impulse to imitate. Which only raises more questions, because how can mere biology push you to imitate things which are not real, in a sense. These ideas of good and bad that archetypes are, just leaves me wondering, how can cells, brain matter, neurons etc, understand that some things are worth imitating. They are after all, just a collection of chemicals/atoms arranged neatly, according to the atheistic world view. Dr Peterson has been a gateway drug to my own expansion/acceptance of the fact that being so staunchly atheistic as I was before, was an extremely simple minded way of viewing the world.
Same here! It's important to hear the history of other countries from people of those countries, especially the ones who either lived through the events themselves or the consequences of those events. And to interpret past and present history through biblical ethics and simple philosophy brings about an intelligent, meaningful, and applicable perspective. I have huge respect for Dr. Peterson and all the people he interviews.
JP should, for the sake of fairness, invite a learned Hindu scholar/advocate like J Sai Deepak or Sadguru. We have too many people to represent our ancient civilization in a fair manner. I'm sure JP being a respected intellectual will do this.
Def not sadhguru. He gives good advices and can debate well. He doesnt know aything about scriptural knowlesge!!! I have seen him say utter nonsense regarding many tipics, sometimes i wpnder if he is secretly working for the christians
So a 5000+ year old culture and the world's oldest religion and multiple holy scriptures and the time dedicated to understand that is just 2 hours. And people study one book The Bible their whole life and discuss about it everytime they had an opportunity. Talking to better people can spark JP's interest in India and it's culture
Worst take ever. "They only talked about my religion for 2 hours!!??" You do understand that most people have other things to do In a day other than discuss history and philisophy, right?
The ancient India and that means the overall structure of way of life if studied in reference to the stories, script, information available then it is simply - those old people believed that the life is a journey, while an individual's soul is a driver and the body/character named in the current life is a vehicle in this journey. Vedas were mechanism that they believed can charge the vehicle so that the journey can be completed in most efficient way of life. Vedas if you focus on the part of karmakanda (ceremonial practice) then it will sound as if they are here to deliver magic but if you refer them from philosophical base they have you will understand it is a practice that they want to demonstrate for the journey of life. How to live on this earth alongside all the natural resources may it be sun, moon, trees, animals. Later people made Shrutis and Upanishads to reflect those philosophical content in Veda in form of short stories so that people can easily understand instead of expecting magics. Hinduism is in current period is referred as religion but if you look at old practices it doesn't seem to be religion. Dharma as they referred was not focused on "God" it was focused on an individual's duties towards its family, community etc. Varna system was to organise the large group of people based on their skills and assign them duties. Unfortunately as people gained undestanding how they can use their skills to gain power and control the entire group they turned the same system in a negative form of discrimination which we lived since last century.
@@ankiiths3274 But, not God in the typical sense. The system in its entirety is God. Whether such intervention to start is divine is what leads to different schools of thought.
The brits fought with the Marathas in the 2 Anglo maratha wars Which was a hindu dynasty expanding over most of India almost to Afghanistan The Mughal empire was over by the better part of the late 18th century!
@Navneet Gupta Dear Nanveet, the Mughal Empire was mostly over by the BEGINNING of the 18th century. Aurangzeb dies in 1705 or something. This is the definite end of an era. After that, whichever Mughal rule was left was toothless.
Dear Dr Peterson, like most of people who follow you, your discussions bring me a sense of understanding of many things political or religious and or just pIain truth. But when you start this video's Tag with the word 'INDIA' while the content may mean many things, but you probably can't expect people in India to solely ignore the core religion which gave India (Hindustan/ Bharat) it's identity long before bilbe/ quran were introduced to the land. And the discussion in this video is great in many ways with regards the guests work for the poor, and impact of bile on the land, but as I've stated, you can't alinate the core religious foundation of India by not having discussion(s) with the people who have an large understanding of Hinduism. Your teachings make me not to judge your intentions/ motivations for this discussion, purely on one video regarding just India and Bile although your religious exploration could have started with pure discussion on India and Hinduism, and you could have carried it to later parts of the history. If you plan to understand Hinduism and India in it's complete essence, I am sure you clearly know, a discussion with people with vast knowledge of the same is warranted. I assume you have those along your podcast pipeline. However, if your videos related to India would be just limited to Bible/ Christianity impact on the country, this is a great video, but please consider giving a disclaimer in either video title or in the introduction, so people know what exactly to expect. Thank you so very much!! Best wishes for your upcoming discussions!
If Jordan Peterson wants to understand India and the civilisation why he has to go to now a Christian person? Give an opportunity to one who lives here and is practising the tradition here. This is not pursuit of truth, it feels more like hidden Christian propaganda by denigrating the other religion. Sorry the guest is so wrong about things discussed. I protest the wrong things said about the community and our history.
I do not believe Jordan is trying to use Christian propaganda. He titled his video correctly- therefore we knew the premise of the topic and its direction for discussion. Jordan is quite good about allowing representation of other sides, whether or not he agrees or disagrees with the information being spoken on. Check out his video with an Islamic church leader. The video conversation is about the history of Islam and the reasons behind their justifications for the way they rule/follow their religion. Email Jordan and give him the name of a quite brilliant person to represent another side of India's practices opposite of this video. Just make sure the person you recommend is intelligent enough to hold their own in the conversation
@@stormystrikes I very well believe Jordan's skills and intellect. I myself have benefitted from him in my personal growth over the last 4 years. I do not agree him on this video. I feel he hasn't put enough arguments/ questions in against which I usually see him do, so many times. Possible his lack of knowledge on this subject but I don't know and like him I would want a fair dialogue, better than this. Also, thanks for the suggestions I like the idea of emailing some recommended guests. There are plenty of abled 'Indians' with whom Jordan would love to hold ground with. I will definitely send him some suggestions as name of such abled men to talk to on the matter of India, culture, history and related revolutions of all forms and religion. I just really hope he gets across my mail.
@@COINsimp2024 Measurements of faring should also include external factors in case of low faring nations. Geopolitics have a say in this and not the Christianity.
@@COINsimp2024 ha ha. Take go take a history course my friend. Bible is nt world history. Other parts of the world were doing quite well even before the arrival of Jesus.
I don't agree with the indian missionary's characterisation of hindu dharma. It only reinforces the idea that the pagan religions such as hinduism are primitive in nature and need the save and grace of an abrahmic religion, A very Eurocentric idea which tries to be a universal truth. Sure the hindu dharama had it's issues but to understand this complex pagan religion with an European abrahmic lense would be wrong. This is what the mughals and english did. Max muller initially hated this pagan religion but after studying it in depth declared indian philosophy and Hinduism to be one of the most sophisticated religions and one of the most developed philosophies, even greater than plato Or Aristotle. PS: dr. Peterson as you Invite ben Shapiro to discuss on Judaism, mohd. Hijab on Islam I would request you to invite a hindu ( sanatan dharama) scholar to discuss hinduism.
@@Lucas_Jeffrey i can suggest to you some scholars which might help you understand Hinduism 1. Swami Vivekananda - there's an 8 volume collection comprising of his speeches , essays and letters 2. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan - he taught Eastern Religion at Oxford before being the President of India and writing writing dozens of books on history of Indian Philosophy and Religion 3. Sri Aurobindo - he was a philosopher and a poet who wrote many books and translated many Sanskrit scriptures in english . 4. Rabindranath Tagore - although not strictly a religious scholar but he delved into religion along with writing poetry , novels , was a painter , well versed in classical music and dance
Did this guy skip over Vedas and Upanishads just like that! Man, I wish Jordan himself reads Bhagwad Gita, the Essence of Vedas, and see the deepest truths himself.
he won't be able to see i'm afraid because his conditions doesn't seem right. he has a lot of mental turmoil on the back of his mind. and he has already spent half his life studying and understanding and explaining the Bible which has taken deep roots in his mind. which is good but that acts as an restraint because when you are too much attached or filled with something it becomes difficult for you to get roots in new things and learn them the way you did first time. It would be really great if he could though.
@@Zeus-uq3wh nature and is sick sense of humour! hahaha. the truth is never staying at the same place, if bhagwad gita is expressing itself like you are then id rather read about the teletubbies. what i like about peterson is that he has an opposing view and you got something to learn there. you speak like you already know it, maybe you should do like peterson and learn while you talk also. even people who are christians does not understand the bible. do you even know what the bible really means by virgin? do you even know what the bible means by bread and so on. i think 99% of the people gets the virgin thing part wrong xD
The Vedas',...what a waste of time. Buddhism was born out of the inability of Hinduism, Advaita, etc., to understand reality. Siddhartha exhausted everything that Hinduism, Advaita offered and did not find the threshold of Bodhicitta. To help communicate a way out of Samsara to Reality, it is said that Sakyamuni Buddha designed the first 'Wheel of Life' for the simple-minded people of that era. The Buddhist Wheel or Loop of Cyclic illusory Existence is said to have Six Realms,...the Highest Level of which is the Brahman/God Realm.
What deepest truth? That everybody is assigned a caste at birth and that Arjuna should murder his possible unarmed cousins in the war because it was his caste duty? Reincarnation trivializes both life and death and karma trivializes suffering. This worldview has brought untold oppression and suffering to millions of people in the Indian subcontinent for a millenia.
@@NameforYouT yes you can apply that to every system we have today. its strange we cant accept that we are not equals and embrace being different also, not in a oppressed way. it depends on who defines equal, its like why dont like that people are not the same as you, then you can truly learn something new.
His last words "Thank you for what you're doing." sums it up. JP thank you for this enlightening seminar. My father, who is a white American man in his 90's had me late in life. he turned his back on the Jesus he was introduced to as a child and found inner peace in the Upanishads (sp?) and Ramakrishna, Vidantism and I grew up going to the Vidanta temple in NYC ..me-a red headed, blue eyed, white little girl. As I grew I tried to understand 1) what Vidantism was and 2) why my father revered it so much. But in the end I couldn't find my answers. It seemed to negate the feminine, which fit well with what I knew about my father. He hated his mother, no one in the family knows why. Something terrible must have happened but he will take it to the grave with him I suppose. When I found Jesus all the questions about life were answered in an instant; and it was then that I felt sick that my father (and my brother as an extension) will never find the peace of Christ. I've heard my whole life that the goal is to reach nirvana, and to do so you must empty your mind. ????Your guest validated my feelings about this practice....it doesn't give Truth to the human conscience who is searching for it. Lack of Truth is at the heart of our societal problems at the moment. I liked what you said about how all the cultures of the Enlightenment were not atheists until the French Enlightenment which brought us through erudite education this current Reign of Terror called Postmodernism that we are all suffering through. I so so so enjoyed this guest and your conversation with him. I think I can safely say my experience as a Caucasian red haired, blue-eyed girl being raised in a Ramakrishna Temple is a unique niche from which to speak, and one that make this conversation possibly more personal for me than many others. Thanks again!
"It seemed to negate the feminine," this absurd coming from a believer in an Abrahamic religion, which are extremely patriarchal totalitarian "1 True God" (who's always male btw) cults that believe the world is only thousands of years old (unlike Sanatana Dharma/"Hinduism" which asserts correctly that the world is BILLIONS of years old, as corroborated by Modern Western Science. You do realize that unlike the Bible & Quran, the Vedas were written by WOMEN along with men. Everything this self-hating Indian human scapegoat sacrifice believer said about India & Dharma is a lie or at best a gross misconception.
@Morgan, you must be mistaken, Hinduism never disregards the feminine, but accepts it in all its glory along with the masculine, which together form the fabric of life. You have all the right to form your own conclusions and tread your spiritual path to harmony, to not follow dogmatic beliefs. This is advocated many times in Hinduism.
@Darren It is only when we empty the mind can we experience the world as it is, only this way can you shift the seat of consciousness from the ego, devoid of judgements and unfounded beliefs. when the ego disappears, you see that you are one with all around you, i.e. you experience the cosmic consciousness or God called "Brahmam" in hinduism. And the kundalini is a form of energy that is described as rising through the spine activating the seven chakras which can be seen as points where the organ function is vital to a fully balanced, healthy and peaceful mind. The spine path vaguely represents a serpent, hence the misnomer. Please don't associate it with an expernal serpent spirit. It is something that is already within you. You just work on activating it to become a healthier person.
Don't understand why Vishal said the Vedic teachings won't lead to truth, the 6 darshans which comprises the "Hinduism" religion is a way to the truth. Darshan literally means "sight", which fits perfectly to the example he gave of the elephant. But it is true that the truth is not something that you will arrive at by reading the scriptures, they can only lead you to it like a map, you have to actually take the journey.
@Voice of the Heathen Rightly stated by Sadhguru, the problem isn't religion per se. But the ego that comes with knowing that only your religion is the truth and you're going to heaven while everyone else following other religions are bound to go to hell.
@@siddhantsingh5962 yes indeed only few shall reach heaven thus you must know that there in no alternative for TRUTH therefore there's only one way ticket.
What impact did the Moghuls have on India. Let's hear what American historian Will Durant has to say: The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history ,it is a discouraging tale for it's evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom ,culture and peace can at any moment be overthrown by Barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within.......Will Durant ,American Historian
Ah, Will Durant said it so aptly 'Barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within' - sadly, they continue to multiply from within and without as well :(
the moghuls were an evil empire though, it killed many Eastern Europeans and middle eastern. Why do you thing the middle eastern decided to take it down.
Please do some research before commenting. The Mughals brought a remarkable mainly inclusive educated culture to India. Hindus were included in high government positions. Yes, there was bloody violence; much of it among different Islamic factions. The East India Company and later the British Government were far more violent and repressive.
I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges, - astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc... It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganges to learn geometry...But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins' science not been long established in Europe........Francois M Voltaire, French Philosopher
I saw a video made by JP about how one should try to find out about one's natural tendency to decide on career. Varna system was the tool in ancient times to identify this tendency very early. It is not easy to understand Hinduism from a narrow perspective. Thoroughly disappointed with JP's understanding of Hinduism. Expected better. Look into Vic Dicara's videos to understand what Hinduism is all about
@@mahalakshmir2404 There you go again. Telling me stuff as if you KNOW they are true when you have NO WAY of knowing if they are true. Like i said..pompous, arrogant culture
@@MusicMan-em4fn ironic that you are calling Hindus arrogant and pompous for knowing the truth while the speaker here says that he didn't read Hindu scriptures because they couldn't give him truth and the Bible is the only truth.
@@_liebevoll_4322 Hindu scriptures didn't give him the truth cuz he read and did not find it there. Logic 😄 Also.. YOU have not read those scriptures either. 🤣 Like a typical Hindu.
It's great that the most translated music is the christian music right? Empowering the locals to develop their music culture, nothing that secularism or any other religion have been able to do.
I would highly recommend Swami Sarvapriyananda on your show. He is well versed in Indian philosophies, especially advaita vedanta (non duality) and some of the western philosophies too🙏
While it is true that the west had many positive influences on shaping Indian society, something lost in the very one dimensional anti-colonial perspective that pervades modern culture, I don’t feel this guest provided exactly the most fair, balanced and nuanced perspective of Hindu ideas and Indian history in general. When he reduced the vedas to essentially being a Harry Potter spell book that became apparent to me. It’s of course difficult to discuss Hinduism because it’s not a centralized religion stemming from one single authority, so traditions vary tremendously, place to place, but reducing it to just a collection of some of the worst practices in certain places would be like reducing Christianity down to sex abuse of minors because of the Catholic Church. If Hindu culture simply promoted nothing but tyrannical rule of the upper castes with no care for the poor or suffering, as he essentially claims, there’s no way in which ancient Indian kingdoms could have ever grown or prospered, since by logic that JBP rightfully states when challenging the ideas of postmodern types, tyrannical systems are often overthrown and collapse from the growing rage of the out group. It’s worth noting that the first of India’s golden ages, where many advancements to science, math and medicine occurred, happened prior to the introduction of any Abrahamic religion into the subcontinent, something that challenges the unidimensional idea of Hinduism and pre Christian India the guest presents. I would personally be excited to see JBP bring on a guest speaking from a Hindu perspective, whether scholarly or religious to provide another view, in much the same way he has been exploring and building bridges with the Islamic world. Considering Hinduism is the largest non Abraham tradition that roughly 1/7 of the world practices at the 3rd most populous religion, it would be worthwhile to understand this tradition, the only polytheistic one of scale that has survived, and for around 5000 years at that. Just as the west has influenced India and the east in general, so has the east influenced the west and I think there is much to be gained from a more holistic dialogue. Thanks for the content Mr Peterson.
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 Its a greek derivative of the river Indus, as in " those guys who live over past the Indus river" ( greek words like 'h'onour and 'h'our kept their silent H, but Persian utility of the term put a hard H on hindu )... on par with grouping Jews, Muslims and Christians as "Jordanists"
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 you are correct. When the British were conducting a census of India under the category of religion. Muslim people would say Islam, Christians would write Christians, but the "Hindus" would write whatever their caste was. So the frustrated British clubbed all those into one religion they called Hinduism
Both JBP and this fellow has also made the fundamental mistake of conflating the influences of west and western ideas as influences of Christianity specially of Christian missionary
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 It is true. Hinduism is just a conglomerate of thousands of different practices of millions of people from hundreds of different places in India. Hindu is only a term of convenience.
I like JP interviews, but this conversation was a disappointment. The arguments were lacking nuance as they seemed to deliberately lack historical context. A lot of mental gymnastics and huge gaping blind spots were required to come to some of these conclusions and justifications. Bring Hindu scholars to discuss the Vedas and caste system, bring Islamic and Mughal Era historians to understand the impact of that empire and Muslims on the subcontinent aside from “ they built the Taj Mahal but didn’t build wheel barrels” and other catchy one-liners. This conversation put a brand of recently imported ‘civilizing’ European Christianity on one side and lumped literally everyone else and every other belief together in barbaric opposition to it. As if Christendom just prior to that era wasn’t completely fragmented, perpetually at war and cruel to its proletariat, religious minorities, women and poor. As if the same Bible’s adherents haven’t shed more blood recently and historically than every other religious group in India combined. Let’s put all that aside, eh? This was definitely NOT JPs best effort at bridge building.
That’s cause you don’t read the Whole context of the Bible….when you do you’ll understand this two gentlemen dialogue. Research for yourself and read the Bible from beginning to end….only then you’ll have knowledge…❤️😇
@@nl9490 that’s just not true is it. You can reframe context all you want - but the Bible stops short of what Sanatan Dharma takes forward. You see Christ in many temples, but not the other way around - why? Because Christianity cannot afford to let go of it’s foundational axioms such as being history centric and requiring the virgin birth and resurrection of Christ, and salvation through Him. Hindus are accepting of Christ, and more. But I tell you this; Both approaches can lead to a very happy life for whomever feels a resonance with it. Why do I say this? Because it’s fundamentally the approach of Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism)
I have read "The Book that Made Your World" and highly recommend it to anyone with an interest in history or different cultures. Amazing humble man! I am not sure he knows the significance of his work!
that book and it's author's entire life mission is to convert everyone into Cryinsanity.. that's why the book and his life is a joke.. better to ignore
@@singhnaveen5694 😂😂😂 actually I thought that for a while considering the content of the video like sati, female foeticide. India aur Hinduism ko defame karna inke jeevan ka maksad hai bc 🤣 J Saideepak would destroy this bullshittery left and right 🤣🤣✌️
@@singhnaveen5694 we are chilling only 😎 by the way read rajtarangni by kalhana..he was one of the ancient historican..though i guess you haven't heard about him...
I recommend you read "The India That is Bharat: Coloniality, Civilisation, Constitution" by J Sai Deepak. A very comprehensive read that goes through the civilisational history of India and the effects of coloniality that yet lingers.
@@kranthiraj667 you're a shameless person. Stop trying to manipulate people into your anti-Hindu agenda. I didn't even have to look for one minute to find you trying to defame Hinduism in another of your comments. You shameless missionaries and Hinduphobes need to get a life and stop harassing Hindus. I don't know if you're a sub erted demoralized self hating Hindu, or some Christian missionary it doesn't really matter... I see your obviously anti-Hindu agenda. Stop spreading lies.
India is the only culture to resist the forced conversions to Abrahmic faiths and still succeed. If Jordan is willing to look at both sides, if he shows the negative influences from Bible, he'll lose most of his fanbase. I've spoken with enough westerners regarding this. With white people, the leftists will look at you like a subhuman who deserves to be saved, a Right winger looks at you like a subhuman who deserves to be exploited. That's why at the end of the day, both political sides of the Western society gets very uncomfortable with India's progress. Their leftists like Indians but not Hindus, their RW doesn't like Hindus or Indians.
This conversation was extremely biased. If Jordan Peterson is truly interested in getting a holistic perspective of India and Hinduism, he should talk to Sanjay Dixit (Jaipur Dialogues), J Sai Deepak, Pandit Satish Sharma and Abhijit Chavda.
Mr. J Sai Deepak is way too sharp to play with for Mr. J.P. JSD is a bias killer, remedy and nightmare at the same time for these intellectual turned evangelists.
From @48:56 to 51:01 1. The kings exploited the peasants, put that wealth as Gold, Silver & Diamonds inside temples, 2. So when an Invader attacks the Kingdom, why should an untouchable defend the kingdom. 3. This is what is happening in India today, everyday (i.e 2022) 4. The lower caste people who are trying to recover their dignity, because the Hindu religious system has made me lower than animals 5. For those who want to convert to christianity, there is persecution happening everyday in India today 6. Mr. Jordan Peterson then goes onto make statement that Hindu Caste system is so damming in the Biblical perspective and the Hindu Karma doctrine was a means to justify their situation 7. Karma justifies the suffering and any help done to elevate their suffering would be counter-productive 8. Vishal Mangalwadi:- it is even more bad and then goes on to justify the bible Statement 3 is for the present and rest all are of the past. Jordan Peterson :- All the statements do not sound to you as the similar case of the Kulaks, wherin a Lenin/Stalin needed to destroy the Bourgeoisie. You talk at length about the Kulaks and Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Counter for Statement No 3:- Lavanya (17), a Class 12 student of Sacred Hearts Higher Secondary School in Thanjavur district, had died by suicide in January due to the torture she suffered from two nuns of the school who pressurised her to convert to Christianity. She was made to drink pesticide and was forced to clean the toilets. And there are many more cases, if the Media talks about it the people like Vishal Mangalwadi get offended and make such statements. People like Vishal Mangalwadi are there everywhere who will only vitiate the environment, but you let your bias continue @1:25:36 onwards :- 9. Vishal Mangalwadi:- A Stone age tribe cannot be taught science or business law 10. Jordan Peterson:- Indirectly asks isn't it the responsibility of the western civilization to civilise these stone age people. @1:26:18:- the smug faces of both these individuals is a sight to behold The statements 9 & 10 are in direct contradiction with statement 1, A civilisation which had the means to build temples, generate wealth in the form of gold, silver diamonds then only a person like Vishal Mangalwadi & JP can behave like a colonialist to justify statements 9 & 10 these are just 2 issues, there are several other claims made by both. JP has brought a Crypto Christian to vomit his hatred about all things relating to Hinduism Not trying to say that caste discrimination or oppression does not exist, but for JP to be silent at statement no 3 is a huge disappointment. Maybe JP should have discussion with Meenakshi jain, Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak, but i highly doubt that would happen based on his behaviour as described in statements 9 & 10
49:00 , comparing discrimation with genocide ? we should also talk about crusades , Spanish inquistion , jews persecution , persecution of pagans , Goa inquisition , slavery done by christian churches , genocide of native Americans ,
From @48:56 to 51:01 1. The kings exploited the peasants, put that wealth as Gold, Silver & Diamonds inside temples, 2. So when an Invader attacks the Kingdom, why should an untouchable defend the kingdom. 3. This is what is happening in India today, everyday (i.e 2022) 4. The lower caste people who are trying to recover their dignity, because the Hindu religious system has made me lower than animals 5. For those who want to convert to christianity, there is persecution happening everyday in India today 6. Mr. Jordan Peterson then goes onto make statement that Hindu Caste system is so damming in the Biblical perspective and the Hindu Karma doctrine was a means to justify their situation 7. Karma justifies the suffering and any help done to elevate their suffering would be counter-productive 8. Vishal Mangalwadi:- it is even more bad and then goes on to justify the bible Statement 3 is for the present and rest all are of the past. Jordan Peterson :- All the statements do not sound to you as the similar case of the Kulaks, wherin a Lenin/Stalin needed to destroy the Bourgeoisie. You talk at length about the Kulaks and Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Counter for Statement No 3:- Lavanya (17), a Class 12 student of Sacred Hearts Higher Secondary School in Thanjavur district, had died by suicide in January due to the torture she suffered from two nuns of the school who pressurised her to convert to Christianity. She was made to drink pesticide and was forced to clean the toilets. And there are many more cases, if the Media talks about it the people like Vishal Mangalwadi get offended and make such statements. People like Vishal Mangalwadi are there everywhere who will only vitiate the environment, but you let your bias continue @1:25:36 onwards :- 9. Vishal Mangalwadi:- A Stone age tribe cannot be taught science or business law 10. Jordan Peterson:- Indirectly asks isn't it the responsibility of the western civilization to civilise these stone age people. @1:26:18:- the smug faces of both these individuals is a sight to behold The statements 9 & 10 are in direct contradiction with statement 1, A civilisation which had the means to build temples, generate wealth in the form of gold, silver diamonds then only a person like Vishal Mangalwadi & JP can behave like a colonialist to justify statements 9 & 10 these are just 2 issues, there are several other claims made by both. JP has brought a Crypto Christian to vomit his hatred about all things relating to Hinduism Not trying to say that caste discrimination or oppression does not exist, but for JP to be silent at statement no 3 is a huge disappointment. Maybe JP should have discussion with Meenakshi jain, Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak, but i highly doubt that would happen based on his behaviour as described in statements 9 & 10
Let’s talk Black people catching Black People to sell them firstly to arabs for 1000 years and then sold them to europeans. Let’s talk to who did abolished slavery and who were unhappy about it.
12:12 Factual ERROR : There is no national language of India as per the constitution, Hindi and English both are considered the official language of India
@@VishalMangalwadi1 Your opinion that modern Indian vernaculars were created by Bible translators is factually inaccurate. It is one thing to say that 'translators of the Bible created new words, which contributed to and enriched Indian languages', but to imply that modern Indian vernaculars are the sole result of Bible translations is dishonest. Vernaculars have influence from multitude of sources, of which, Bible can be one. But no way it is the only, or even the most influential source as far as Indian vernaculars are concerned.
Christian missionaries tried to convert poor sections of Indian society by using fault lines since 1500s, but they never got much success other than Malabar region and North East India. The most ironic part about all of this is that : Christian missionaries claim to free them from "evil caste" chains but even after 10 generations of conversation, they never stopped using caste identity. Dalits Christian is still a thing.
@@davidcole1475 India will be fully converted only and only when it's Kaliyuga, the age of darkness, when we will stop living in Truth entirely. The sad thing is, we're indeed in this dark age currently, albeit just in the golden years of it where not all Truth is lost yet! If this were a golden age then the doctrine of Dharma would've prevailed.
@@davidcole1475 But which heaven exactly? There are seven heavens in total. Which one are you talking about exactly when you say heaven? Do you mean the highest one, where the God himself dwells? Then you're talking about Brahmaloka where the creator of this world, Brahma, dwells. But we don't worship that god here. Ask us why.
@@davidcole1475 lmao. I'm literally stating what is truth. Unlike you, I've not based my whole worldview on just one single book but rather studied each and every religion after I realised that what we call today as Christianity is based upon lies and manipulation. I was a Christian, dude! A devote, god fearing Christian. After my awakening I realised that Christianity is not actually based upon Truth. This realisation also made me look into gnosticism and all the dots started to connect, it all started to make sense. You'll be awakened too, IF you're meant to and search for the Truth hard enough.
@@davidcole1475 That's exactly what I'm talking about. I've read what he preached and how he lived, that's where my views are coming from! Don't read the Indian scriptures if you think that's satanic, fine? But atleast read the gnostic scriptures. Just go beyond your modern Bible is all I'm saying. Explore more.
@@swaythegod5812 and how much were those institutions influenced by india? I mean jpb does yoga Also Carl yung who's greatly influences jpb is greatly influenced by Vedas and sanatan dharma So where does that discussion go?
Hmmm... This whole interview reeks of confirmation bias. And he seems to have read his history from Romila Thappar. A known Marxist historian who has warped Indian history. Just his mentioning of the Ashwamedha as the reason for India's weakness is ridiculous. Where the English performing Ashwamedha when the Vikings invaded? No! Sometimes geopolitics is just such that you are weakened due to infighting and can't stand up to a foreign enemy. Then the part about the bare breasted women of Travancore. That is a highly disputed story. Women being bare breast was not a taboo until Victorian morality rolled up in India. And given the tropical climate of Travancore it makes sense. There are many paintings and sculptures of Godesses as being bare breast. At one point he says that there were no written scripts before the bible? Tamil and Sanskrit have scripts going back millennia. The Rig Vedas were written down in 1000 years before Christ, so not sure how he could not find a written copy in 1960.
This conversation is similar to what happened with excess covid death reporting. Western media in 2021 had projected the deaths due to covid in India as 4.3 million. Then in 2022 the WHO repeats this propoganda and says the deaths 4.7 million. In a nutshell what the west is saying is whatever the Hindus say, of something about hinduism is good, then the only 1/10 th is good. If something bad has happened in India, then multiply it with a factor of 10
Peterson sahab aapse ye umeed nhi thi... I am not able to resonate though some things are right but the Title itself is flawed... No way Bible has shaped India and it can never in in million years shape it.... Sir, I would request you to bring Abhijit Chavda as a guest, cause the whole conversation would have gone on a different path altogether if he would have been here
@@lipuna ohh really who had what? That's why you have cast system for broke the unity and that's why muslims invad you. Because if you were united nobody could have loot you. That's a fact. And ask a man's cast who clean your gutters.
Mangalwadi mentions Charles Grant and William Wilberforce in this talk. Below is the extract from Sri meenakshi jain's book sati "Thus we trust, it has been envinced.... The moral character and condition of the natives is extremely depraved and the state of society is wretched. The evils have been shewn to lie beyond... however good they (hindoos) have been traced to their civil and religious institutions, they(hindoos) have been proved to inhere in general spirit and many positive enactments of law and more powerfully still in the false corrupt impure extravagant and ridiculous principles of their religious...a remedy has been proposed for these evils, the introduction of our light...".(Grant 1832: 120) Charles Grant could not help but appreciate the way of life of Hindus, but his overwhelming hatred for the heathens and desire for colonial power made him say the opposite. JP has admitted he does not know about history, in the beginning itself, but JP should not make the same generalisation about British colonialism
Vishal and JP are basically Christian Missionary at this point. This whole podcast was full of propaganda and manipulation🤦🏻♀️At least bring a pro-Hindu like Abhijit Chavda. man that's the least you can do
@@deepika2644 if you look they will bring islamic scholar for talking about Islam .christain preacher to talk about Bible and Jesus. It translates to call anyone to talk about India , it's culture it's philosophy, hinduism .. 😂😂 what's there wid this poor uncivilised pagans. 😂 Not so important. Just call anyone.
50:40 Omg, this a horrible understanding and a conflation of Brahminism with entire Hinduism. The social reformers in South India called Virashaivas and Basavanna and the Siddha Yogi traditions of Tamil Nadu, the Varkari Saint tradition of Maharashtra, Gaudiya Vaishnavism of Bengal, Nath Yogi Parampara of Middle India, the entire tradition of Yogis and Tantra people, all being Hindus have denounced Caste system and demanded equality. Even really Vedic Hindus when they oppressed were transgressing against the message of Vedas as in Bhagavat Gita it is clearly said you have to treat everyone as yourself and God resides them in all. This is literally saying love thy neighbour as thyself.
I have never heard this vile version of Hindu history.... I request Jordon Peterson to call credible indic scholars like Sanjay Dixit, J Sai Deepak or Swami Savrvapriyananda..
Peterson doesn't care about India. He cares about justifying the genocide across the worlds by white people, and he cares about spreading the cancer of Christianity.
Just a few ideas about contextualising issues surrounding topics discussed .... TL:DR .... India is incredibly huge and a serious investigation of what its religion, culture and politics actually means and how they developed requires way more than just a few anecdotes. *the west had its own caste system, namely the estates. That was effectively dismantled by the industrial revolution. India got (and is still getting) its industrial revolution quite late. India received in about the 20th century over 65 years what the west received in about 17th century over 300 years. This has a ton of implications ranging from the very idea of nationhood (what to speak of ideas surrounding "nationhood", once that term becomes a viable tool for a community's rumination in the space opened up by a redundant or disintegrating caste/estate system ) to the delegation of civic order in the tension between legally accounted mandated laws and mere social norms (there is nothing in the contemporary western lexicon that approximates the Panchayati Raj, namely how things are to this day managed at the Indian village level). I think it is less a question of the degree that Christianity has influenced contemporary India and more a question of how the concomitant offshoots that Christianity pioneered (such as legal frameworks around nationhood, economics, the "institution" as a new social technology, etc) that is more to the point. Its more that because there were no institutions per se (much like there were, for the most part, no institutions in medieval Europe), there were no institutions operating to manage compassion, charity etc. The notion that people in India required Christianity in order to integrate base notions of compassion and charity is absurd. * Early 1980's India (by all accounts), with Indira Gandhi, was incredibly turbulent. The world was looking on kind of nervously wondering whether there was going to be a democracy or a despotic form of government. Doesn't matter where you look in the world, you are not going to find shining examples of virtue in persons who are caught in the grip of poverty and chaos. Politics is pretty zany everywhere, and the fact that the comings and goings, for better or for worse, of the world's largest democracy never really permeates international news feeds is an indication that there is something about it that just has too much background information and noise to be easily digestible. *Because there is a sort of village identity that predominates in rural India, it is less the case that individuals convert to Christianity and more the case that families and even entire villages convert to Christianity. And a lot of the times there can be a sort of coercing or reluctance that goes into that .... and this creates its own unique tensions that commonly and inevitably creates flashpoints .... and at that time people outside see the flashpoints but have no vision of the causes. For instance, a common method for proselytising is to offer cash incentives (maybe something like 1000usd per person) to convert to Christianity. A lot of the time that comes with a lot of disparaging of local customs (often broadcast over 120 decibel loud speakers outside the church ... its kind of par for the course of religion in India, regardless of faith ... the 120 decibel PA system, not the public disparagement of competing faiths) ... 8th commandment is kind of a popular one to be vocal about, more so than the 1st... so it is less a "leap of faith" as it is commonly understood in the west and more a covert form of manipulation, enticement or just simply going along with what you have already thrown your lot in with socially, whether it be one's family or one's village. Of course others who may convert in more urban or educated circles would certainly have a different experience, but it is mostly in these village backwater places that all these news stories about extreme christian persecution come from. Anyway I am just offering this by way of explanation. I don't think there is any obvious solution. It is part of a bigger issue in that Indian culture has traditionally been introverted, and the notion that a universalizing proposition demands proselytising is just borrowed from the west, .... and there's a whole lot of circling the wagons that now goes on in the name of orthodoxy, and not exclusively in expressions of christianity, I might add ... * there is a tendency to default to the notion that adwaita (monist) schools are the sole contender for India's spiritual heritage, completely bypassing the dwaita (dualist) schools. I think this is because the monist school integrates better with Buddhism (and historians love being able to show cause and effect seamlessly). There is an even an argument that the British gave , upon their arrival on the scene, undue importance to monism (love of historians, the unavoidable and awkward problems of sanskrit being patently categorized as an "Indo-European" language, etc).There is literally a ton of commentaries available from the past 1000 or so years on precisely what the dualists (Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarkha, Vishnuswsmi) and the monists (Sankhacharya) have to say about things. This is not just some cerebral venture into ecclesiastical hair splitting ... when citing Brahman (the undifferentiated oneness that permeates reality) as an orthodoxical precept that errodes personalism (and thus underpins a malefic disregard of civic obligation in the guise of impersonalism), one really should examine precisely what orthodoxy one is drawing from. For a very basic starter, such an examination would determine whether there is value in decompressing the 4 vedas or beginning first with the Puranas (Narratives based on the vedas). Given Peterson's full engagement with narrative, it is disappointing to not really see him engage with the Puranas. Even in Maps of Meaning, when he briefly touched on Indra's encounter with Vrtasura (a pastime that is packed with core values of the dualist schools), it rung of some sterile excerpt from the work of some other santized monist influenced western academic who probably didn't know any better himself.
From being 100 percent educated before British and 17 percent in 1947, secondly the greek ( cradle of western civilization ) recognised indians as sages and people of great culture and knowledge , the philosophy of various thing that you call western has its origins from India , the are various mentions buy Greeks themselves that indian was a republican state read megatheses plz , there no battle of philosophy and science between your civilization and mine ,plz read
Incorrect. Alexander's Greeks invaded India a full two and a half thousand years ago. At that time, there was no unitary entity called India. The region was populated with various republics and kingdoms.
Go to India with a free mind. Not for a day or two. You will know what Hinduism is all about. It’s the the way of life. There are no books to read and learn about Hinduism.👍🏽
@@TheReaper569 I am an Indian nationalist. There's nothing wrong with that. What I have to say is that India has become worse off since Islam and Christianity came here.
@@globalnationalismyoutube or how about this? İndia became far worse than its ancient origins therefore fell to the influence of rising powers like islam and the west? İ also dont think indian women still need to be topless when prime minister arrives. So what became worse exactly.
@@TheReaper569 When Islam came millions of Hindus were killed. The Christians also killed millions of Hindus when they invaded and colonised us. India would have been better off if these invasions never happened.
12:08 from wikipedia: Quran in Hindi: Kanzul Iman by Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Alaihirrahma[77] translated in the early 1910 Quran in Urdu: Shah Abdul Qadir, son of Shah Abdul Aziz Dehlawi, produced the first Urdu translation in 1826. One of the authentic translations of the Qurʻan in Urdu was done by Abul A'la Maududi and was named Tafhimu'l-Qur'an. Molana Ashiq Elahi Merathi also translated the Qurʻan in Urdu.
@@bbahaida i think he was more talking about the availability. For most muslims don't read the Quran in their mother tongue and it's not spread much. It's my guess.
@@christophsurbeck2814 I'm not attacking the man, I think he's quite a nice person, I'm just pointing out the facts about what he said regarding the constraints that prevented him from reaching the message of the Quran. And maybe he just didn't want to read it like most Christians I know.
@@bbahaida i see no objection he could have had to read the quran, if he had one. He seemed to have been in the mode of exploring. So it would have been interesting for him to read the Quran. What i mean is this: if you go to somalia which is an official muslim country, it would still be hard to find a somali translation. Though it is available. But some might even not know it and say there is none. Most afghans i know read the quran in srabic without understanding it but still wouldn't read a dhari translation. They even might not find one, even though I'm sure there must be a translation. However, i think he would have been interested to read it and i wouldn't know why he dhould have objected reading it.
To all the Hindus and Indians who have commented here. I deeply and truly say to you Aap Sabko Koti Koti Pranam. Dhanyawad. Bhaiya main akele chilate chilate thak gaya inke channel par. Ye kabhi islam ko peaceful batate hain Kabho christanoty ko. Ye sabko mis- inform kar rahein hai bahut pehle se. Jab se last baar bimaar hokar aaye hain tab se ye agenda driven ho gaye hain. AAj main bahut prasann hun. Dhanyawad Bhaiya aur didi aap sabka.
@@himanshurai2854 kya right winger bhaiya. Koi bhi baat main agar hindu apni baat rakhe to wo bhakt hai ya right winger hai. Ye log nahin bulate paisa nahin milega na.
Is video dekhne ke baad mujhe kuch questions hain. Yeh sach hai ki aap log (Hindus) widows ko zinda jalate hain? Ya yeh sach hai ki aap ke vichar se log vidhvaon ko zinda jalana accha hai? Aur choti-choti larkiyon ko marne ke bare main aap log aisa sochte hain ki yeh bhi normal hai? Kyonki main Europe se huun aur is video se main yeh ideas prapt ki...
@@liatresanos3769 it used to be an ancient practice which came into the society with the advent of the islamic invasion of India. However In the 19 century , with the collective efforts of Hindu social reformers and the Brits it was rightly abolished and has since never been practiced anywhere in India. Mind you, even at its peak it was not a Pan India phenomenon rather limited to reigons of islamic invasion.
@@hindeshrai8787 aha, so mentioning the burning of the wives in this context would be similar to pulling out the mediaeval burnings in Europe and concluding that "a true God would never want such things to happen". What about the starving little girl? Here I am more sceptical because I know there are cruel people who treat others like animals all around the world and I suppose extreme poverty and lack of education in rural areas only exacerbates that. I can understand the deep psychological impact of seeing such lack of morality because I have seen many amoral acts also and to witness crap like that leaves the person extremely disgusted with anything that is related to the perpetrators. However, to my knowledge, there is no such thing in Hindu religious teachings as women being less than men per se. I hope I am not wrong at this point. Correct me if you could show me a passage somewhere in your scriptures where it says specifically that a woman has no soul and thus can be dismissed I would appreciate.
I enjoy his talks but when it comes to India and its culture, JP is a big disappointment. Intellectual like him, when discuss things without knowledge/research is like someone is talking about life on Pluto without seeing it or knowing it. To understand religion and culture of India, he has to get out of Abrahmic tradition of following one book, a monotheistic tradition and stop mapping India with the same template. Knowing the Vedas, some popular terms like caste system, meditation and yoga doesn't mean knowing India or its culture. (Unless it is a paid propaganda just like million others are).
do you think the same people who lived there 1000 or 2000 years ago and all the way back to the bronze age is the same people who live there today. dont you think they would be a very small minority by now? its very sad to see such a beautiful place on earth destroyed by money, greed and so on wich has nothing to do with culture at all. do we know that the caste system isnt some perversion of the real deal ? from what i see, is that the people in power only cares about everything else than the culture of their land. they take that away from people so they can take that to their own benefit and make $$$
Karma basically means causes and consequences. The superstitious part exist in all religions at a low resolution interpretation. Eveyones should read guenon , his views about differents degrees of resolution in the religious content are significants.
50:20 I was baffled at the ignorance in the discussion on "the doctrine of Karma" and the following discussion on the caste system. Karma at its very core (from what Buddha described) is simply mental volitional action, which has consequences. So essentially a "doctrine of causality" pertaining to the mind-matter phenomenon. It is certainly not static. In fact, the entire purpose of India's various spiritual paths is to improve your Karmic actions (the methods each propose may differ) through individual effort to ultimately reach a stage of liberation/moksha/nirvana. This ignorance also comes through in an earlier discussion on the rule of law and natural rights, where it is assumed that India's modern laws and fundamental rights could only have been derived from Biblical concepts as perhaps India did not have its own "transcendant moral order". Dr Ambedkar - the father of India's constitution - in a speech after submitting the final draft said that by becoming a parliamentary constituency again, India is back to its Buddhist roots. A lot could could have been discussed here on Dharma, which literally translates to natural law that applies to all beings. I lost interest in the analysis after this. Perhaps someone with a more sophisticated understanding of these concepts would have served the discussion better. Very unfortunate that this is gradually turning into an East or West, Christianity is the best podcast.
This guy is a Christian missionary what did you expect? I am glad though most Hindus in comment section are actually pointing out the blatant propaganda
As a hispanic catholic i have to say that there is an aspect of the history that no many know. Everything that is said in this video is just the anglosaxon view of the Christian-liberty development of our societies, which is ok, but it's just a part. The hispanic culture developed has their own.
But JP should have read about India and its history before talking to Vishal. The fact he did not, and swallowed all the nonsense, makes him look like he has adopted the mentality of the wretched colonizers and the accompanying missionaries!
This missionary has lied as much as possible to whatever extent he could. We too believed all these things before the internet because they used to suppress any facts that were counter to their narrative. Would suggest you to follow J Sai Deepak for understanding our views better.
@@VirginMostPowerfull Actions speak louder than words. Throughout history, biblical passages have been used to justify the use of force against heretics, sinners and external enemies. The Inquisitions, Crusades, wars of religion and antisemitism are among the most notorious examples of Christian violence. Christian faith inspires violence in at least two ways. First, people often kill other human beings because they believe that the creator of the universe wants them to do it... Second, far greater numbers of people fall into conflict with one another because they define their moral community on the basis of their religious affiliation. Over many centuries Christians killed thousands, perhaps millions, for the crime of not being Christian or sometimes for the crime of not being sufficiently Christian. Some were killed by the sword, some burned alive, some drowned, some buried alive, some garrotted, some forced to face wild animals. Traditional Christian history books rarely find room for this side of the story, nor the role of bishops, priests, monks and friars. The biggest genocide in the history of humankind was not perpetrated against Jews, but against native Americans. Over 100 million native Americans were slaughtered by Christians. Christian missionaries used British induced famines, killing nearly 50 million Indians, to spread Christianity. In 1923, a publication from America named “India and its Missions” discussed the advantages of British induced famines and diseases using Christianity. It says, “The famine has wrought miracles. The catechumenates are filling, baptismal water flows in streams and starving little tots fly in masses to heaven.” So yes these Christians indeed were - as you put it 'demonic' and genocidal.
@@jaikant5158 Most of what you said was completely irrelevant to the situation in India. Something that would be relevant however is that Indians martyred one of the apostles, St. Thomas. And ever since, Christians have been persecuted in India. You put up a smoke screen when in reality India has cast system for social cohesion, that alone is a disgrace to human rights and Christians fight against that. I have no heard of this plan you speak of about this famine mission. But what I do know is that India's economy has significantly increased ever since the British came along. Complaining about misery naturally leading people to seek refuge in God is of itself an admission that Hinduism doesn't give this same safety and peace of mind, especially for the lower casts.
'The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]' Bhagavad Gita. Chapter 5, verse 18
But would he see a child being sacrificed and oppose it , would he see a rape and opppse it. If yes then he is admitting that some ways of life lead you away from God and all paths dont lead to God.
@@akhiljames3435 Jesus did not oppose the genocide of 100 million native americans, he does not oppose rapes committed every 1 to 2 minutes in the USA, he does not oppose child marriages in the US and UK, he does not oppose shooting of children in the US. And you are telling, this path leads to God? This is your reasoning?
untouchabilty is a british contruction, it has never been a hindu concept, caste is derived from a portugese term defining sub structures in christian states
Self-delusion is often functional, you can live a valid life and believe the earth is flat, so good luck with your belief, I wish it gives you what you want in life.
That is literally what we call bullshit, caste is a pre christian concept. The British did use it to their advantage but they never constructed it. And its not like British Empire has caste system going on at all countries they colonized, its only India it seems to have a deep root, why do you think it is so if its not ingrained in India's core culture from centuries?
The word caste actually has it's roots in Latin (castus) meaning separated or cut off. The cut off definition means more like pure, faultless, as in cut off from sin. I think that you'll find many countries have a caste system, including Japan which has it's own caste of untouchables, formed without any British intervention if history is to be believed..
This conversation has so many factual and theoretical errors thats its mind boggling. The only reason why Dr Peterson didnt counter it might be because he doesnt know Indian history and its religious philosophies, as he himself confesses in the beginning. That being said, a proper Indic scholar well versed on the Indic framework itself should be called on to discuss these matters if Dr Peterson is interested in a nuanced perspective and not the inaccurate hogwash that is characteristic of many historians with vested interests.
Hi Mike, The TH-cam comment section is certainly not the place to speak about these matters at length. They require nuance and also several historical and philosophical aspects to be made clear. I will share an article at a later time. Moreover, by pointing out the issues with Vishal's narrative (which he surely is free to do so as he pleases) will not be seen an honest intellectual exercise by people like our friend Michael, no matter how well grounded I am in the matter. So I respectfully decline from going forward with this conversation on the comment section. Please reach out separately if interested. Thanks
@@nitinajithkumar If an accusation is levelled against someone then there should be a minimum decency to provide facts to backup those accusations which is sign of scholarly understanding else it is considered as a kiddish way of name calling and running away under the guise of respectability which was already lost when the accusations were levelled....it can also reflect as an intent of creating confusion and doubts in infant minds who blindly follow their masters. I just asked for a few out of the many mind boggling errors you observed my frn.
@@meetjeev if there was one or a few or several errors there, it would have been possible to point them out and present with facts and lengthy discussions on the subjects particular. but due to the sheer pointlessness of this video and the errors and ramblings of this propagandist Mangalwadi, it is made impossible for any person to try to present each of it with facts and especially because that would be pointless, as the man talking in the video lacks any credibility you can ever give to him. read through the comment section you'll find many arguments, presentation of facts therein and many more things. take this comment in indifference. this is written in an indifferent manner.
I request Jordan Peterson to invite Dr. Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak on his podcast. You'll never understand Bharat (India) with the western Abrahamic lens and will end up making the same mistakes as the erstwhile British colonisers. But a warning. Both Rajiv Malhotra, JSD will fundamentally challenge your framework of ideas.
@Jordan B Peterson you should do a podcast with Abhijit Chavda, Dr. Subhas Kak, or Rajiv Malhotra for a better understanding of Indian History and culture. Christianism in India, and Vedas. Abhijit doesn't mince his words or try to sugarcoat or whitewash History. For Sanskrit, you can invite Nityānanda Miśra. He is very good. The Cast system explained by Mr. Vishal is pretty misleading. The Cast system itself needs a whole podcast.
Charlie Kirk mentioned “The Book That Made Your World. By Vishal Mangalwadi. I started reading it a couple days ago and looked This up. I traveled to India in 1976. I was amazed by how poor people were. We were heading in the same direction if Kamala had been elected. Interesting to study such a brilliant man.
53:00 Jordan takes a really uneducated take here, presuming the Catholic church didn’t want people to read the Bible while simultaneously reading it to them every week. Also, the Catholic church has grown in Africa more in this century than in Europe over the last 5 and that’s taking place almost exclusively in the vernacular so this point about “if people knew the Bible, they would cease to believe in the faith of the church of the Apostle Peter” is just very silly
I was born and raised Catholic until I was 11 or 12. I never once heard a priest tell us to read the Bible. Once I read it, I knew I was right to leave Catholicism.
@@michellepeckham4610 Haha what? The priest didn’t read the Bible to you every Sunday (and every other day of the week) ? Also, obviously study of the Scriptures is important. But where in the Bible does Jesus tell his followers to write a book? Over and again he tells us to pray, fast and love each other in humility…but never to get our faith from a book. We get our faith from God, and Christ made apostles who made bishops and priests to share what he had taught them…particularly to pray, baptize, confess, heal and break bread. Reading the Bible is not enough to be fully alive in Christ, you need the community he set up (the very catholic community that organized the Bible in the first place) to support you and teach you. The Church is the first-hand encounter with Christ in the sacraments. The Bible is a second-hand account, and while very important, not everybody has to be a literate scholar to be an amazing Christian. God help us all stay the true Path.
You didn’t understand what I said. The priests never encouraged us to read the Bible for ourselves. You are right. They gave us bits every Sunday. You really should read the word of God for yourself so you would know your God more. You cannot worship Him without knowing Him. One should not rely on the priests’ interpretation of His words. I have learned to worship Him in spirit and in truth. I pray God will lead you to The Truth.
They didn't I'm afraid, the Catholic Church argued that a spread of the Bible would cause a splintering of the faith (which it did), it would no longer be catholic in the universal sense. They claimed that only the Church (Roman Catholics) had the authority to interpret Scripture, not the peasant boy across the street.
@@tomdownunder749 Okay where did the peasant boy learn to translate Greek and Hebrew into the local language and then spend a lifetime studying which books should be canon and which books are gnostic texts that have no relation to the faith that Christ gave to the apostles?
I would really like to see Dr Peterson speak with Dr Michael Heiser about biblical concepts that are outside of traditional mindsets, it would be interesting to hear what Dr Peterson has to say about some of the things that Dr. Heiser says about the Divine council.
India was the motherland of our race and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages. India was the mother of our philosophy, of much of our mathematics, of the ideals embodied in Christianity... of self-government and democracy. In many ways, Mother India is the mother of us all. Will Durant
I am a huge fan of your lectures, the way you think and speak has channelized my intellect significantly. Extremely disappointed that this talk even happened, it goes to show the level of ignorance and blind eye that you turn towards India and its history. It is a grave injustice to you as a scientist and a seeker of truth, to let this huge mistake be left unaddressed. I humbly urge you to dive deep into understanding the history and philosophy that comes from the great land of Bharat to set the record straight. It is understandable that everyone need not know everything, but when there is so much untruth being given a stage like this even a busy and learned man like you has to take a step back and re-evaluate. Given your intellectual stature in the west, I believe it is imperative for you to show us that you are actually an open-minded person and not just a blind missionary of the church.
A few years ago , I was on a camping trip with a few friends in protected national forest near a tribal village , when we were going back we saw missionaries advocating for Bible in tribal villages , offering them rice , money , etc to convert to Christianity , they even had photo of hindu version of Christ..one of them had same beard moustache and black outfit as your guest Mr JP.... Talking about arguments mr. Vishal made , few arguments made sense and most of them seems like the propganda just like those missionaries who tried to coerce those poor villagers...
Some tribal people when they convert they tend to hold on to their old ways of images and so they keep an image of Jesus and give it their own form and worship thinking they are worshipping Jesus. Regardless your remark on giving the poor money and aids to convert is totally false. Nobody in this whole world would truly convert for that. You just made a huge judgment that people in the villages and tribals are incapable of discernment and because of their lack of education they are not capable to make a decision to change religion. Yes Christian help the poor they provide aids but regardless of whether they want to convert or now. They might as well take the aids and remain in their old faith, where I of course they got little to no attention for their needs. Lastly most educated upper caste Hindus from India prefer to go to Christians schools for values and discipline and learn good English. Now when the lower caste or tribals convert they have a problem.
@@AMightyFortress dear lincy , do you think I am lying ..?😕😑 I have nothing against christianity...you can pray anyone you like , they(indians) worship snakes , cows and even trees for that matter... 1st) bribing poors into christianity is nothing new. For those poor people who convert to christianity just get an extra god to pray..but most of the time they are subjected to ridicule and discrimination in society due to their funny western names.. there could be only two things ,either I was hallucinating or they were really curing cancer with their crazy dances.. 2nd) They are capable to decide if they want to change their religion,(but purposefully targeting vulnerable is not good in *my opinion) in many cases they do change their religion but most of times they don't , in few instances they get beaten very badly....when people are living on edge of starvation and death then they are not capable of making independent judgement *in my opinion. 3rd) sorry to say but soo called "aids from christianity" are only available to those who convert to christianity and get their exclusive western name. 4th) and lastly about education , people from every religion and caste who have some money and ambition, go to those schools , just for one reason and that is english education which is at core of getting decent job in poor countries.. Idk what rosy picture they are painting about missionaries over there in West , as I have seen, my views are not very positive about their activities.. But I think you are entitled to you opinion and Please do some research and mention sources before making bold claims..
At the core of this evangilical business plan is to standardize and homogenise the entire population. Christianity is in direct competition with Islam. All the good news and words of God are unable to make them see the futility of such egocentric, narcissistic endeavours. Possibly a deep rooted insecurity within their believers has been exploited to keep the business plan moving.
@@AMightyFortress well, ground realities are different. It's a noble deed to help out needy and helpless. However it's doesn't begin and end there. Indoctrination of a particular path and then negotiations to adopt it for promise of a better future are activities which can range from being influenced to being manipulated and coercive. As the saying goes - teach someone to fish and they lean to feed themselves for life. Why convert anyone to live by my set of rules and beliefs? Is that what helps someone learn English or is it just an agenda masked within a placebo?
@@shadowgovernment3000 I just hope those alien didn't kidnapped and impregnated you ...and stay away from alien looking bearded missionaries, you never know when they'll try missionary on you..
JP brought a Islamic scholar for discussing Islam while brought Indian "CHRISTIAN" for discussing HINDUISM. Thus shows how Hindus narrative are lost and are insignificant in western view mindset
The Indians were educated Only a few selected by the Brits mostly from the upper class of the caste system which the Brits cotified and made more of a problem that it already was They were educated so that they could create a class of brown sepoys to translate and govern india in a better way Also it was to "civilise" the beasts of India To create an inferiority complex in the brown sepoys and at the same time superiority complex from the natives!
"only a few"... surely you cant expect the brits with 1/20th or less of the population to take responsibility for educating the whole of India? Shouldn't you be blaming the Indian elites for not setting up the institutions for their people?
Stop with the inferiority complex please. India is a bigger and more powerful country that Britain. That was true when Britain was growing its empire too. What happened to the Indians was because of the Indians.
@@cameronblack7984 I'm not saying they had a responsibility of even 1 The point is they didn't do it for the emancipation of Indian people but for their own benefit Missionaries are no saints They're snake in Wolf's clothing saying they are sheeps
You should check out Jay Dyers content, esp the geopolitical vids. He's extremely precise and thorough in these topics. Not to mention homie has a book room. Not a book shelf.. book *room* . xD
He said he does not want to read the Quran because it is in Arabic although he can read it in different translation, however , on the other hand he choses to read bible which had been translated from Greek language, from Aramaic original book. His reason doesn’t not add up.
I had no idea India was ruled by the Muslims prior to the English. Yet many don't know that Palestrina was ruled by the Ottomans for 400 years prior to the English as well.
I know this is off topic and not aimed at you, but don't you find the whole eastern/western thing strange. Italy, Austria and half of Europe, australia, new Zealand, parts of Norway and japan are all in the Eastern hemisphere whilst venuzwaila, Paraguay, Cambodia with half of africa are all in the west.
No when they say west, it's referred to the western civilization. Which jp would say is judeo-christian civilization. which includes the several Latin American counties that are Christian
I wonder what your intentions are, when you bring in a person from christian missionary to talk about india and it's history. Would you bring in a nazi to talk about jewish history? This doesn't behoove you, Jordan.
False equivalence. I'm a Keralite and what he says about Kerala and erstwhile Travancore kingdom is absolutely correct. We Indians should be willing to be self critical
But there is some mistake Christianity is not new to India when compared to Europe Christianity first came to India in AD 52 through St Thomas the disciple of Christ so Christ is known to south India in Kerala at the same time it was know to Europe and America
I think this may be my favorite interview you've ever done, Dr Peterson! Thank you for spending time on this very important topic. It blew my mind in so many ways.
@@themanontheinside it’s a bit silly to say would have been a waste of time when you haven’t even read it. Clearly wasn’t searching hard enough cuz if 2 billion people are claiming it’s the truth maybe just maybe you should check it out.
I know you've said you've taken a break from twitter, but if you would like a positive, insightful circle of people to follow, I would highly recommend the twitter accounts devoted to saving India's ancient architectural heritage. The megalithic masterpieces of ancient India have so much to teach us. Please consider looking into their architecture. Thank you Dr. Peterson.
The man took up the lowest common denominator of a culture and normalised it as if the only reality. This is as if picking up medival ills of christianity, and normalising it as the only essence of christianity. You both made out a strawman out of hinduism. The host(whom I do admire) didn't even know about muslim empires in India. A bit of genuine home work and honesty might help for a better discussion, with regards to India, rather than preconcieved notion and anti pagan bias.
Medieval Christianity was held in high esteem as a time of great virtue by Renaissance great thinker Erasmus, a leading Humanist. “I saw monarchy without tyranny, aristocracy without factions, democracy without tumult, wealth without luxury,” Erasmus later wrote, idealizing the past. “Would that it had been your lot, divine Plato, to come upon such a republic.” Perhaps most important, medieval man believed that he knew his place in the Economy of Grace, in God’s universe.
@@johnofroncesvalles4255 you forgot mentioning Catholic Church sexual abuses, witch-burning, treatment of homosexuals, inquisition, torture and persecution of Jews and pagans etc. etc.
I don't agree. You have reduced a 1:45 hour interview, where he did not just glorify the Bible's contribution but also spoke about colonialism's ills at length, clearly pointing out that it was not one culture that was better than another, rather it was a meeting of two very worldviews, into some soundbites. One would think that one worldview having a definite advantage of supposedly having power on it's side, the reality is more nuanced, early missionaries were considered troublemakers and kept out by the British, simply because they called a spade a spade, with regards to the east india company's early corruption as well as the ills present in Indian society then(the company had no interest in its early days in good governance or reform, India was a means to make money). India is very much living with a Hindu worldview at present. So the colonial project was definitely a failure, from that perspective. But there were some positives to the whole exercise and the speakers point was to shed a light on those positives. In today's shrill chest thumping narrative of Indian preeminence, a bit of humility is what he is calling for. I don't sense any triumphalism in it. Your review needs to be more even-handed.
@@AD-gu6sr 1.I am a Hindu, and I think there is nothing inherently wrong with having a Hindu worldview, as there isn't anything wrong with a christian worldview. 2.Good that you are taking about even handedness. I would expect the same, since you painted a very rosy picture of early missionaries. About the early missionaries, their entry was facilitated thorough law(Read Charter Act of 1813) and yes early missionaries were trouble makers, but, for the Indian society. Most tribal revolts has one common cause i.e proselytizing activities by missionaries.Of course they did a few good things as well, but mostly their benovelence was transactional. It was at the cost of dignity of indigenous faiths. 3. The speaker isn't asking for any kind of humility. Infact his disscussion on hinduism has been consciously ignorant( E.g the doctrinne of karma) . The bottomline of his message was to project hinduism as a primitive religion that requires gracious saving by christianity.
Those who are watching this thinking this is whole truth, just know that this man is just a missionary spreading his agenda. history and truth is far different from this.
@@arnavpandey3779 I suppose you mean “worst”. And no, I don’t agree with you and you fail to provide any argument or “truth”. Your opinion is not fact my friend. God bless you!
@@arnavpandey3779 it seems we don’t know what you know either. Many words but no actual content. Just a contrarian looking for attention… God bless you!
@@Aceaditya02 There is no national language in India. Hindi is spoken by 43% of Indian population. Every regional language is as implrtant as Hindi in India. Hindi can be obviously a link language. Hindi and English are official languages as per official language act, 1963.
Great interview and I love that Dr. Peterson is doing this. Unfortunately, his knowledge of hinduism and the context of vedas is fairly inaccurate. He's presenting opinions and not facts.
Thank you. I was given The Book That Made Your World and found it to be one of the best, most enlightening and uplifting books I have ever read. It is a treasured addition to my small collection of favourite books.
This man who was invited in Jordan Peterson 's podcast in this episode is spreading fake propaganda about Hinduism and Hindu kings . In Travancore , it wasn't the case that women of so called lower caste were not allowed to cover their tops , the real case was that Travancore lies in South India which is a tropical area and climate is very hot and humid , so due to heat women of not just lower caste but almost all caste used to keep their tops without clothes or with minimal clothes even men used to keep tops open with minimal clothing like gamcha , etc and this so called breast tax is actually a myth . These pastors and missionaries are generally funded by Western people and catholic Church to convert the people and destroy the eternal Sanatan Dharma or what is called as Hindu religion in current times . It is a fact that many christian missionaries use unfair tactics , offering money and cheating for converting poor and tribal people in India . One more thing that this pastor says wrong about India that from 1000AD to 1192 AD we Hindus could not defeat muslims , there were many great Hindu kings and queens who defeated muslim before, between , after this period like Rani Tara Bai , Raja Suheldev , etc . These muslims never had full control over India basically these rulers were like weak feudal kings who could maintain their direct rule over a limited area only and by the end of 17th century , this so called Mughal Empire of muslims was so exhausted and defeated by Hindu kings and warriors that they became very weak and a point came in mid 18th century that Hindu Empire Maratha Empire ruled over more than half of India taxed the Mughals . Not just this there were many Hindu kings and Empire which were powerful and defeated these Muslim rulers like Ahoms , Kings and Warriors of Kalinga , Vijaynagar Empire , Rajputs ,etc .
I think it depends on what scholar of history you’re reading. Can you cite the book you’re grabbing this information from? And even then, there will be another book with another perspective by another scholar.
In our culture (Sanatan Dharma a.k.a Hinduism) some great being once said "First they will ignore you, then they will make fun of you, then they will fight you and finally they will surrender to the truth". You guys are misrepresenting Hindus just by quoting some missionary texts, ignorance is bliss but not in Every case. I'm just saying the "Truth always Triumphs" even if it is the exception and not the norm. So it doesn't matter how much in the west people make fun of Hindus and demonize them with half baked truths of caste, The Truth Triumphs that's what my culture taught me. So some misguided missionaries can't defeat the "Dharma".
That's not a quote from your culture. Nicholas Klein, a trade union activist, said something similar in a 1918 speech, saying, “First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you,” according to a transcript from the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America convention.
@@al-kimiya6962 that is typical of dharmic followers. First they borrow from others, then they rename those and then they claim it was thier ancient traditions and finally they accuse others from whom they have borrowed as stealing thier wisdom.
Twenty three minutes in and Mr. Mangalwadi has presented a hilariously distorted picture of Hinduism via texts (the Vedas) that apparently he hasn't read because they were never written down because there was no "script," I believe he said, I'm sitting here wondering if I'm actually hearing what I'm hearing, or if he understands what Sanskrit is? He dismisses the Vedas as basically incantations of magical rites that have nothing to do with knowing truth...has he never heard of Vedanta? Apparently not. Then he dismisses Islam, again on the basis of not being able to find a translation in his native tongue. So that's out. Then he starts to talk about the Bible representing it as an antisemitic text (what the actual f___ dude), rambles on into a discussion of Wittgenstein who, again, he doesn't seem to understand and seems to be confusing with a mangled version of Derrida... Of course Peterson is sitting there eating this up because he hasn't read the Koran or the Hindu holy books and his peculiar (mis)understanding of postmodernism was gained second-hand. I faded out and then you have Peterson insisting that the basis of individual human rights that is our legacy from the Enlightenment came from the Bible, again it's like The Age of Reason was a reaction to church authority in the name of science and rationality, hence the name. If Peterson wants to read an actual Enlightenment philosopher and Founding Father who considered the Bible idiotic and dangerous he would need seek no further than Thomas Paine. This video is a complete and utter waste of time except insofar as it leads people to seek the original sources themselves.
I think India is still a relatively poor nation because of Nationalistic pride. the Hindus and their Muslims rulers did very little to improve the lives of the common people, If they would adopt the positive attitude of nation who recognized that they have been an invaded (Not conquered) nation as Japan, and still can adapt their character to a new culture mixed with the indigenous features maybe by now they would be a world power, as as long as they live in denial their neighbors (like South Korea) will surpass them
A fascinating discussion of biblical ideas and values beyond the usual confines of a western cultural context. The comments of some less than enthusiastic listeners were also fascinating and telling. Given the depth and breadth of the discussion, Prof. Mangalwadi's comments about Jewish influence in Hollywood keeping Harvard in check when it comes to the Holocaust (1:29:10), were jarring and disconcerting. Not surprisingly, Prof. Peterson moved the conversation along briskly at that point. Jewish communities as well as the state of Israel have various voluntary and elected organizations with a mandate to ensure that the Holocaust and its lessons are not forgotten. This is done in a public manner, without the need to resort to Hollywood "power" to influence the public. If film producers in Hollywood or elsewhere take on the difficult task of telling stories of human malevolence that need to be told, more power to them!
I think the message Mr. Mangalwary wanted to convey , that there is a well funded and powerful organization keeping an eye on the Holocaust and its lessons of how evil can overtake us "humans" as a species. However when its culturally perpetrated ( specially in the most vulnerable: we think its the norm.
Was there NO Bible translations before 1500 ? (Yes, there were.) Even so, what was the actual literacy rate in Europe before 1500 ?? (Estimated at 30 percent / urban, and at 5 percent / overall)
Not for the common people, I think. Luther benefited from Erasmus' translation into Latin (the Vulgate), but that was only accessible for clergy and scholars.
There were a lots of people who could use Greek fluently in the Greek speaking regions and vulgar Latin was also commonly used by the Hispanics and Italics. So for these speakers translations were not really needed. But indeed there were translations into Copt for the Egyptians and Syriac for the Syrians until the 11th centuries.
@@wurdfanheit Actually the Vulgate was Saint Jerome's fourth century translation of the Bible into Latin. After the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453 and the emigration of many Greek-speaking scholars to the West, often accompanied by old manuscripts, the deficiencies of that translation became apparent, which led to an increased interest in translating afresh: hence eg Erasmus' new translation of the New Testament into Latin and Luther's of the entire Bible into German.
CS Lewis " A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse…. "
This person is a true victim of Colonial Discourse. The distorted narratives of late medieval Christian missionaries have been 'internalized' by this person as 'true'; demonizing the Hindu way of life. A more honest understanding of Hindu way of life would 'reveal' a better comparative account of the two religions. His knowledge of Indian history, to make an understatement, is very poor indeed.
@@rorschach4391 I agree that Bible has had an influence on India. Some good a some pretty bad as well. But if I am asked what shaped India, then I would say Hindu consciousness and Indian national movement has shaped India.
the parable of blind men and elephant concludes that multiple perspective are right to know truth(s) and not that it can't be known and actually explain the 7-fold multifacedness of truth(s) in the world. please read about 'Anekantvad' on wikipedia itself(unauthentic but atleast intorductory)
He's critiquing the parable. Someone was observing the blind men and what the elphant actually looked like,, which means someone was not blind. That is his point.
Starting around 49:15....dang. The man starts preaching. AMEN. "You won't allow me to enter your temple? Jesus is making me a priest of the most high God." Wow
@@UltimateOstrichRider Current Government is Under Bharatiya Janata Party which always believes in One religion so political leaders. After 2014 BJP came to rule, they have been spreading hatred among the religions.
@@UltimateOstrichRider Well lot of haters of the current government spewing nonsense here. But I will try to explain why Indians and especially Hindus are not happy with this talk. The guest has a very simplistic view of Indian history often espoused by the colonial british rule and evangelical christians. Caricaturing entire Hindu society into caste, sati and untouchability and claiming that British had truly "civilized" India is a pretty simplistic view of Indian society. I am not even a student of history and I can already point of so many mistakes in his narrative. Coming to the point of current mood of the country, well BJP, a Hindu nationalist party is currently in power since 2014. Before that, the prevailing narrative in India was shaped to some extent by the colonial historiography and mostly by the Marxist historiography which maintained their stranglehold over the academia. Since Marxist everywhere in the world are critical of the prevalent culture of that region, in India, it was in the interest of the left to be hostile towards Hinduism. In the west it's usually a tussle between Christian right and the left. In India it's Hindu right versus islamo-christian-left. Well I am also putting it quite simplistically. But the thing is, prevalent narratives about Indian history are changing rapidly after the rise of social media. Pro-Hindu voices are finding platforms and there is a general rise in the Hindutva consciousness of the society. And that also gets reflected on social media as well.
There was neither non-existence nor existence then. There was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond. What stirred? Where? In whose protection? Was there water, bottlemlessly deep? There was neither death nor immortality then. There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day. That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse. Other than that there was nothing beyond. Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning, with no distinguishing sign, all this was water. The life force that was covered with emptiness, that One arose through the power of heat. Desire came upon that One in the beginning, that was the first seed of mind. Poets seeking in their heart with wisdom found the bond of existence and non-existence. Their cord was extended across. Was there below? Was there above? There were seed-placers, there were powers. There was impulse beneath, there was giving forth above. Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it? Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation? The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe. Who then knows whence it has arisen? Whence this creation has arisen - perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not - the One who looks down on it, in the highest heaven, only He knows or perhaps even He does not know.
I spent time with Dr. Vishal in MN at the school I attended. Wonderful, approachable man and family... his wife Ruth is lovely. He gave me several teachings of his, and I sat under his teaching as well. He deeply impacted me and he is a genuine Mensch
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This missionary men trying to make fight between Hindus & Muslims in india
@@Selfimprovementjourney-s Is it??? Wow
Question not related to this video. I have seen a video where you say that a man becomes a man when his dad dies. Do you think it could be the same or similar for women?
I’ve known of 2 men that when their mom died was when their lives changed.
JP I have few questions and observations. If you want your missionary propaganda to succeed than go on but if you are a real seeker and if you really are not a zombie missionary then do the following:
1. Bring a pro Hindu person to talk about Hindus because you are a declared missionary now.
2. If it's possible come out of your prejudice and hate for a culture which you know through only another zombie missionary.
3. When you discussed Islam you brought a pro Islam person but when you discussed Hinduism you brought a zombie missionary that's sad.
4. JP just be aware that Karma is so real that zombie missionary can't grasp it so talk to some level headed Yogi.
5. Caste system is not the bed rock of India period.
6. If you are a reasonable person as you project bring a Hindu saint to discuss and let me see if you even stand a chance fir missionary propaganda.
@@Selfimprovementjourney-s aahhaa malayaliyo?
"What did the Mughals do for India?"
"They built the Taj Mahal" 🤣
Seriously dude?
It's very clear how biased he is and where he is coming from!
Malgalwadi's views are not the real data --- he has made up his world
watch Jaipur dialogues for the refutation ---
How was he biased?
@@shravyaamin8346 Because he used some straw man arguments in his talks, which missionaries have used for generations ............ If you want to know what he said wrong about then watch the full series of refutation of this talk In " Sangam Talks " or "Jaipur dialogues" TH-cam channel
@@shravyaamin8346 No amount of explaining from my side would help if you don't see anything wrong in this conversation.
@@shravyaamin8346 lol 😂 point is that Mughals only built taj mahal and s.. but never worked for the betterment of public. I.e universities, centre of knowledge,facilities medical . That’s why their name is synonym with ayyashi. Randi and handi is reason for their downfall . Get it?
It's fascinating to read the responses here which try to defend the Hindu faith and their holy book.
Culture is downstream from religion. Prior to Christianity, India was a dark place that had manifest classes of society in which there were severe differences in rights and privileges.
While those classes have always existed, it was exacerbated in the Indian culture.
Christianity began the dismantling of this terrible system of oppression. The dismantling needs to continue.
The more I learn about history from different perspectives, the more I realize how misled my entire generation has been. It's depressing, and we have yet to see the implications of such flawed education across the entirety of the western world.
Now is a good time to re educate yourself.
I wholeheartedly agree!! I strongly resonate with your statement. I also feel the same way about many subjects in education beyond history. One being economics and how the Keynesian school is just assumed to be best. Marxism is discussed but the Chicago and Austrian schools are hardly mentioned if at all. The idea of Archetypes is another one. I was taught that Archetypes are simply a theme people make up and copy off of such as Damsel in Distress. On that level it seems so patriarchal and chauvinistic. But Dr Peterson has shown me the truth. Archetypes are part of our collective subconscious and we are predisposed to understanding them. How intriguing and novel!
The world tries so hard to disparage Christianity, but after listening to this, once again I am reminded that the truth is, the entire civilized world owes it's ideas of equality, tolerance, justice etc..., to Christianity.
Progressives hate the church and go out of their way to try and paint the history of the Church as evil, but the truth is, even progressives concepts of evil, of right and wrong, was appropriated from Christianity.
@@matthewsilver5455 I love your point about archetypes being something we are predisposed to understanding. I believe this to be the case. It's so odd, the lay-man, who hasn't read a lot (I include myself in all this), isn't traditionally educated, hasn't been exposed to the well fleshed-out meanings behind archetypes, can still watch a great film or see a great president etc, and feels within them the biological impulse to imitate. Which only raises more questions, because how can mere biology push you to imitate things which are not real, in a sense. These ideas of good and bad that archetypes are, just leaves me wondering, how can cells, brain matter, neurons etc, understand that some things are worth imitating. They are after all, just a collection of chemicals/atoms arranged neatly, according to the atheistic world view. Dr Peterson has been a gateway drug to my own expansion/acceptance of the fact that being so staunchly atheistic as I was before, was an extremely simple minded way of viewing the world.
Same here! It's important to hear the history of other countries from people of those countries, especially the ones who either lived through the events themselves or the consequences of those events. And to interpret past and present history through biblical ethics and simple philosophy brings about an intelligent, meaningful, and applicable perspective. I have huge respect for Dr. Peterson and all the people he interviews.
JP should, for the sake of fairness, invite a learned Hindu scholar/advocate like J Sai Deepak or Sadguru. We have too many people to represent our ancient civilization in a fair manner. I'm sure JP being a respected intellectual will do this.
Def not sadhguru. He gives good advices and can debate well. He doesnt know aything about scriptural knowlesge!!! I have seen him say utter nonsense regarding many tipics, sometimes i wpnder if he is secretly working for the christians
Definitely not sadhguru. He is no historian.
JP will not do it.
This one podcast has exposed his hypocrisy or his fear of Indic civilisation.
@@Lakshyam9 He will. Or we shall call him to India. lol
J Sai Deepak is on another level in IQ, Jordan won't be able to handle him😂😂...Also to understand scriptures Acharya Prashant is best
So a 5000+ year old culture and the world's oldest religion and multiple holy scriptures and the time dedicated to understand that is just 2 hours.
And people study one book The Bible their whole life and discuss about it everytime they had an opportunity.
Talking to better people can spark JP's interest in India and it's culture
It is difficult to comprehend multi-verse.
Pun intended
This is just so PATHETIC it is astounding.
Talk to Rajiv Malhotra
He is not interested in understanding Hinduism. Heis is driven by the agenda of Christianity.
Worst take ever. "They only talked about my religion for 2 hours!!??" You do understand that most people have other things to do In a day other than discuss history and philisophy, right?
The ancient India and that means the overall structure of way of life if studied in reference to the stories, script, information available then it is simply - those old people believed that the life is a journey, while an individual's soul is a driver and the body/character named in the current life is a vehicle in this journey. Vedas were mechanism that they believed can charge the vehicle so that the journey can be completed in most efficient way of life. Vedas if you focus on the part of karmakanda (ceremonial practice) then it will sound as if they are here to deliver magic but if you refer them from philosophical base they have you will understand it is a practice that they want to demonstrate for the journey of life. How to live on this earth alongside all the natural resources may it be sun, moon, trees, animals. Later people made Shrutis and Upanishads to reflect those philosophical content in Veda in form of short stories so that people can easily understand instead of expecting magics. Hinduism is in current period is referred as religion but if you look at old practices it doesn't seem to be religion. Dharma as they referred was not focused on "God" it was focused on an individual's duties towards its family, community etc. Varna system was to organise the large group of people based on their skills and assign them duties. Unfortunately as people gained undestanding how they can use their skills to gain power and control the entire group they turned the same system in a negative form of discrimination which we lived since last century.
Slightly misinformed towards the end about the varna system. Rest is good. But God was always the center of Sanaatan Dharma.
@@ankiiths3274 But, not God in the typical sense. The system in its entirety is God. Whether such intervention to start is divine is what leads to different schools of thought.
@@ankiiths3274you may want to define Sanaatan Dharma. These days a white washed version presented by those propagating Hindutva.
The brits fought with the Marathas in the 2 Anglo maratha wars
Which was a hindu dynasty expanding over most of India almost to Afghanistan
The Mughal empire was over by the better part of the late 18th century!
This vishal is wrong in many places , he puts wrong facts everytime in every video
Then this ‘mighty’ Maratha empire lost to Ahmad Shah Abdali lol😂🤣🤣
@Bruhh Who also got their buts wiped out by the British 🤣🤣
@Navneet Gupta
Dear Nanveet, the Mughal Empire was mostly over by the BEGINNING of the 18th century. Aurangzeb dies in 1705 or something. This is the definite end of an era. After that, whichever Mughal rule was left was toothless.
@@mohammadshamail7732 Who were sent back eventually.
Dear Dr Peterson, like most of people who follow you, your discussions bring me a sense of understanding of many things political or religious and or just pIain truth.
But when you start this video's Tag with the word 'INDIA' while the content may mean many things, but you probably can't expect people in India to solely ignore the core religion which gave India (Hindustan/ Bharat) it's identity long before bilbe/ quran were introduced to the land.
And the discussion in this video is great in many ways with regards the guests work for the poor, and impact of bile on the land, but as I've stated, you can't alinate the core religious foundation of India by not having discussion(s) with the people who have an large understanding of Hinduism.
Your teachings make me not to judge your intentions/ motivations for this discussion, purely on one video regarding just India and Bile although your religious exploration could have started with pure discussion on India and Hinduism, and you could have carried it to later parts of the history.
If you plan to understand Hinduism and India in it's complete essence, I am sure you clearly know, a discussion with people with vast knowledge of the same is warranted. I assume you have those along your podcast pipeline.
However, if your videos related to India would be just limited to Bible/ Christianity impact on the country, this is a great video, but please consider giving a disclaimer in either video title or in the introduction, so people know what exactly to expect.
Thank you so very much!! Best wishes for your upcoming discussions!
Malgalwadi's views are not the real data --- he has made up his world
watch Jaipur dialogues for the refutation ---
The guy has lied multiple times.
If Jordan Peterson wants to understand India and the civilisation why he has to go to now a Christian person? Give an opportunity to one who lives here and is practising the tradition here. This is not pursuit of truth, it feels more like hidden Christian propaganda by denigrating the other religion. Sorry the guest is so wrong about things discussed. I protest the wrong things said about the community and our history.
I do not believe Jordan is trying to use Christian propaganda. He titled his video correctly- therefore we knew the premise of the topic and its direction for discussion. Jordan is quite good about allowing representation of other sides, whether or not he agrees or disagrees with the information being spoken on. Check out his video with an Islamic church leader. The video conversation is about the history of Islam and the reasons behind their justifications for the way they rule/follow their religion. Email Jordan and give him the name of a quite brilliant person to represent another side of India's practices opposite of this video. Just make sure the person you recommend is intelligent enough to hold their own in the conversation
@@stormystrikes I very well believe Jordan's skills and intellect. I myself have benefitted from him in my personal growth over the last 4 years. I do not agree him on this video. I feel he hasn't put enough arguments/ questions in against which I usually see him do, so many times. Possible his lack of knowledge on this subject but I don't know and like him I would want a fair dialogue, better than this.
Also, thanks for the suggestions I like the idea of emailing some recommended guests. There are plenty of abled 'Indians' with whom Jordan would love to hold ground with. I will definitely send him some suggestions as name of such abled men to talk to on the matter of India, culture, history and related revolutions of all forms and religion. I just really hope he gets across my mail.
There is a reason that Christian countries fare better than others, someday when you are ready for the truth come back to this video.
@@COINsimp2024 Measurements of faring should also include external factors in case of low faring nations. Geopolitics have a say in this and not the Christianity.
@@COINsimp2024 ha ha. Take go take a history course my friend. Bible is nt world history. Other parts of the world were doing quite well even before the arrival of Jesus.
I don't agree with the indian missionary's characterisation of hindu dharma. It only reinforces the idea that the pagan religions such as hinduism are primitive in nature and need the save and grace of an abrahmic religion, A very Eurocentric idea which tries to be a universal truth.
Sure the hindu dharama had it's issues but to understand this complex pagan religion with an European abrahmic lense would be wrong. This is what the mughals and english did. Max muller initially hated this pagan religion but after studying it in depth declared indian philosophy and Hinduism to be one of the most sophisticated religions and one of the most developed philosophies, even greater than plato Or Aristotle.
PS: dr. Peterson as you Invite ben Shapiro to discuss on Judaism, mohd. Hijab on Islam I would request you to invite a hindu ( sanatan dharama) scholar to discuss hinduism.
I would enjoy this a lot as I have been intrigued by hinduism since I had indian friends as a child.
@@Lucas_Jeffrey i can suggest to you some scholars which might help you understand Hinduism
1. Swami Vivekananda - there's an 8 volume collection comprising of his speeches , essays and letters
2. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan - he taught Eastern Religion at Oxford before being the President of India and writing writing dozens of books on history of Indian Philosophy and Religion
3. Sri Aurobindo - he was a philosopher and a poet who wrote many books and translated many Sanskrit scriptures in english .
4. Rabindranath Tagore - although not strictly a religious scholar but he delved into religion along with writing poetry , novels , was a painter , well versed in classical music and dance
Hindu scholar likw who?
@@tam_chris20 read my former comment
@@Lucas_Jeffrey Please take time to read Vishal's "The World of Gurus".
Did this guy skip over Vedas and Upanishads just like that! Man, I wish Jordan himself reads Bhagwad Gita, the Essence of Vedas, and see the deepest truths himself.
he won't be able to see i'm afraid because his conditions doesn't seem right. he has a lot of mental turmoil on the back of his mind. and he has already spent half his life studying and understanding and explaining the Bible which has taken deep roots in his mind. which is good but that acts as an restraint because when you are too much attached or filled with something it becomes difficult for you to get roots in new things and learn them the way you did first time. It would be really great if he could though.
@@Zeus-uq3wh nature and is sick sense of humour! hahaha. the truth is never staying at the same place, if bhagwad gita is expressing itself like you are then id rather read about the teletubbies. what i like about peterson is that he has an opposing view and you got something to learn there. you speak like you already know it, maybe you should do like peterson and learn while you talk also. even people who are christians does not understand the bible. do you even know what the bible really means by virgin? do you even know what the bible means by bread and so on. i think 99% of the people gets the virgin thing part wrong xD
The Vedas',...what a waste of time.
Buddhism was born out of the inability of Hinduism, Advaita, etc., to understand reality. Siddhartha exhausted everything that Hinduism, Advaita offered and did not find the threshold of Bodhicitta.
To help communicate a way out of Samsara to Reality, it is said that Sakyamuni Buddha designed the first 'Wheel of Life' for the simple-minded people of that era.
The Buddhist Wheel or Loop of Cyclic illusory Existence is said to have Six Realms,...the Highest Level of which is the Brahman/God Realm.
What deepest truth? That everybody is assigned a caste at birth and that Arjuna should murder his possible unarmed cousins in the war because it was his caste duty? Reincarnation trivializes both life and death and karma trivializes suffering. This worldview has brought untold oppression and suffering to millions of people in the Indian subcontinent for a millenia.
@@NameforYouT yes you can apply that to every system we have today. its strange we cant accept that we are not equals and embrace being different also, not in a oppressed way. it depends on who defines equal, its like why dont like that people are not the same as you, then you can truly learn something new.
His last words "Thank you for what you're doing." sums it up. JP thank you for this enlightening seminar. My father, who is a white American man in his 90's had me late in life. he turned his back on the Jesus he was introduced to as a child and found inner peace in the Upanishads (sp?) and Ramakrishna, Vidantism and I grew up going to the Vidanta temple in NYC ..me-a red headed, blue eyed, white little girl. As I grew I tried to understand 1) what Vidantism was and 2) why my father revered it so much. But in the end I couldn't find my answers. It seemed to negate the feminine, which fit well with what I knew about my father. He hated his mother, no one in the family knows why. Something terrible must have happened but he will take it to the grave with him I suppose. When I found Jesus all the questions about life were answered in an instant; and it was then that I felt sick that my father (and my brother as an extension) will never find the peace of Christ. I've heard my whole life that the goal is to reach nirvana, and to do so you must empty your mind. ????Your guest validated my feelings about this practice....it doesn't give Truth to the human conscience who is searching for it. Lack of Truth is at the heart of our societal problems at the moment. I liked what you said about how all the cultures of the Enlightenment were not atheists until the French Enlightenment which brought us through erudite education this current Reign of Terror called Postmodernism that we are all suffering through. I so so so enjoyed this guest and your conversation with him. I think I can safely say my experience as a Caucasian red haired, blue-eyed girl being raised in a Ramakrishna Temple is a unique niche from which to speak, and one that make this conversation possibly more personal for me than many others. Thanks again!
"It seemed to negate the feminine," this absurd coming from a believer in an Abrahamic religion, which are extremely patriarchal totalitarian "1 True God" (who's always male btw) cults that believe the world is only thousands of years old (unlike Sanatana Dharma/"Hinduism" which asserts correctly that the world is BILLIONS of years old, as corroborated by Modern Western Science. You do realize that unlike the Bible & Quran, the Vedas were written by WOMEN along with men. Everything this self-hating Indian human scapegoat sacrifice believer said about India & Dharma is a lie or at best a gross misconception.
@Morgan, you must be mistaken, Hinduism never disregards the feminine, but accepts it in all its glory along with the masculine, which together form the fabric of life.
You have all the right to form your own conclusions and tread your spiritual path to harmony, to not follow dogmatic beliefs.
This is advocated many times in Hinduism.
@Darren It is only when we empty the mind can we experience the world as it is, only this way can you shift the seat of consciousness from the ego, devoid of judgements and unfounded beliefs.
when the ego disappears, you see that you are one with all around you, i.e. you experience the cosmic consciousness or God called "Brahmam" in hinduism.
And the kundalini is a form of energy that is described as rising through the spine activating the seven chakras which can be seen as points where the organ function is vital to a fully balanced, healthy and peaceful mind. The spine path vaguely represents a serpent, hence the misnomer. Please don't associate it with an expernal serpent spirit. It is something that is already within you. You just work on activating it to become a healthier person.
@@illusionistextraordinaire87802 Well elaborated👍Namaskaram!🙏
@Morgan B your lies here won't work🙏
JP should invite swami sarvapriyananda of the ramakrishna order if he wants to have a fruitful discussion on the vedanta.
Why not sadhguru ? He is very implicated vs liberals and preservation of indian culture and many many things.
@@l-esprit_de_l-ouest he is good but he's not well versed in hindu scriptures
@@chaitanyabharadwaj5411 i know but like jp he is fighting hard vs leftists.
So it migth be interesting .
@@l-esprit_de_l-ouest he's well spoken, but not well read. And mixing science and religion is dangerous.
@@lookintoit4537 yeah jp thinks everything good that we know is because of Bible 😂
Don't understand why Vishal said the Vedic teachings won't lead to truth, the 6 darshans which comprises the "Hinduism" religion is a way to the truth. Darshan literally means "sight", which fits perfectly to the example he gave of the elephant. But it is true that the truth is not something that you will arrive at by reading the scriptures, they can only lead you to it like a map, you have to actually take the journey.
It's all Missionary shit bro
@@rajeshwarraoendaram3443 correct Jordan Peterson is a judeo christian Apologist
@Voice of the Heathen Rightly stated by Sadhguru, the problem isn't religion per se. But the ego that comes with knowing that only your religion is the truth and you're going to heaven while everyone else following other religions are bound to go to hell.
@Voice of the Heathen do I sense sarcasm?
@@siddhantsingh5962 yes indeed only few shall reach heaven thus you must know that there in no alternative for TRUTH therefore there's only one way ticket.
What impact did the Moghuls have on India. Let's hear what American historian Will Durant has to say:
The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history ,it is a discouraging tale for it's evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom ,culture and peace can at any moment be overthrown by Barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within.......Will Durant ,American Historian
Ah, Will Durant said it so aptly 'Barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within' - sadly, they continue to multiply from within and without as well :(
the moghuls were an evil empire though, it killed many Eastern Europeans and middle eastern. Why do you thing the middle eastern decided to take it down.
Please do some research before commenting. The Mughals brought a remarkable mainly inclusive educated culture to India. Hindus were included in high government positions. Yes, there was bloody violence; much of it among different Islamic factions. The East India Company and later the British Government were far more violent and repressive.
@@Tiruvannamalai108 Could you elaborate on "The Mughals brought a remarkable mainly inclusive educated culture to India" ?
I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges, - astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc... It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganges to learn geometry...But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins' science not been long established in Europe........Francois M Voltaire, French Philosopher
I saw a video made by JP about how one should try to find out about one's natural tendency to decide on career.
Varna system was the tool in ancient times to identify this tendency very early.
It is not easy to understand Hinduism from a narrow perspective.
Thoroughly disappointed with JP's understanding of Hinduism.
Expected better.
Look into Vic Dicara's videos to understand what Hinduism is all about
Varna system is not what you claim it to be at all.
Why lie?
Like Islam, you guys have Taqqiya too?
@@MusicMan-em4fn it is like that only . You will understand it slowly. What is the hurry? There are several lifetimes to see.
@@mahalakshmir2404
There you go again.
Telling me stuff as if you KNOW they are true when you have NO WAY of knowing if they are true.
Like i said..pompous, arrogant culture
@@MusicMan-em4fn ironic that you are calling Hindus arrogant and pompous for knowing the truth while the speaker here says that he didn't read Hindu scriptures because they couldn't give him truth and the Bible is the only truth.
@@_liebevoll_4322
Hindu scriptures didn't give him the truth cuz he read and did not find it there.
Logic 😄
Also..
YOU have not read those scriptures either. 🤣
Like a typical Hindu.
Those in power write the history, while those who suffer write the songs.
It's great that the most translated music is the christian music right? Empowering the locals to develop their music culture, nothing that secularism or any other religion have been able to do.
@@danielcastro9650 I don't know much about music and how music empowers people, no idea
I would highly recommend Swami Sarvapriyananda on your show. He is well versed in Indian philosophies, especially advaita vedanta (non duality) and some of the western philosophies too🙏
Yeah that is a beauty
Basically nonsensical unlike the exalted truth of the Bible
@@supersmart671 lol Bible only hs claims
Advaita vedanta (non duality) is meaningless drivel compared to the real and tangible praise of Godly devotion
@@TheMLMGold wt is so spl in God?
While it is true that the west had many positive influences on shaping Indian society, something lost in the very one dimensional anti-colonial perspective that pervades modern culture, I don’t feel this guest provided exactly the most fair, balanced and nuanced perspective of Hindu ideas and Indian history in general. When he reduced the vedas to essentially being a Harry Potter spell book that became apparent to me.
It’s of course difficult to discuss Hinduism because it’s not a centralized religion stemming from one single authority, so traditions vary tremendously, place to place, but reducing it to just a collection of some of the worst practices in certain places would be like reducing Christianity down to sex abuse of minors because of the Catholic Church.
If Hindu culture simply promoted nothing but tyrannical rule of the upper castes with no care for the poor or suffering, as he essentially claims, there’s no way in which ancient Indian kingdoms could have ever grown or prospered, since by logic that JBP rightfully states when challenging the ideas of postmodern types, tyrannical systems are often overthrown and collapse from the growing rage of the out group.
It’s worth noting that the first of India’s golden ages, where many advancements to science, math and medicine occurred, happened prior to the introduction of any Abrahamic religion into the subcontinent, something that challenges the unidimensional idea of Hinduism and pre Christian India the guest presents.
I would personally be excited to see JBP bring on a guest speaking from a Hindu perspective, whether scholarly or religious to provide another view, in much the same way he has been exploring and building bridges with the Islamic world. Considering Hinduism is the largest non Abraham tradition that roughly 1/7 of the world practices at the 3rd most populous religion, it would be worthwhile to understand this tradition, the only polytheistic one of scale that has survived, and for around 5000 years at that.
Just as the west has influenced India and the east in general, so has the east influenced the west and I think there is much to be gained from a more holistic dialogue.
Thanks for the content Mr Peterson.
Isn't the term "Hindu" also a western heuristic used to condense thousands of separate practices?
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 Its a greek derivative of the river Indus, as in " those guys who live over past the Indus river" ( greek words like 'h'onour and 'h'our kept their silent H, but Persian utility of the term put a hard H on hindu )... on par with grouping Jews, Muslims and Christians as "Jordanists"
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 you are correct. When the British were conducting a census of India under the category of religion. Muslim people would say Islam, Christians would write Christians, but the "Hindus" would write whatever their caste was. So the frustrated British clubbed all those into one religion they called Hinduism
Both JBP and this fellow has also made the fundamental mistake of conflating the influences of west and western ideas as influences of Christianity specially of Christian missionary
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 It is true. Hinduism is just a conglomerate of thousands of different practices of millions of people from hundreds of different places in India. Hindu is only a term of convenience.
I like JP interviews, but this conversation was a disappointment. The arguments were lacking nuance as they seemed to deliberately lack historical context. A lot of mental gymnastics and huge gaping blind spots were required to come to some of these conclusions and justifications. Bring Hindu scholars to discuss the Vedas and caste system, bring Islamic and Mughal Era historians to understand the impact of that empire and Muslims on the subcontinent aside from “ they built the Taj Mahal but didn’t build wheel barrels” and other catchy one-liners.
This conversation put a brand of recently imported ‘civilizing’ European Christianity on one side and lumped literally everyone else and every other belief together in barbaric opposition to it. As if Christendom just prior to that era wasn’t completely fragmented, perpetually at war and cruel to its proletariat, religious minorities, women and poor. As if the same Bible’s adherents haven’t shed more blood recently and historically than every other religious group in India combined. Let’s put all that aside, eh?
This was definitely NOT JPs best effort at bridge building.
Yup. Awfully ignorant chat.
That’s cause you don’t read the Whole context of the Bible….when you do you’ll understand this two gentlemen dialogue. Research for yourself and read the Bible from beginning to end….only then you’ll have knowledge…❤️😇
You are intelligent in the natural yet lack spiritual discernment.
@@nl9490 that’s just not true is it. You can reframe context all you want - but the Bible stops short of what Sanatan Dharma takes forward. You see Christ in many temples, but not the other way around - why? Because Christianity cannot afford to let go of it’s foundational axioms such as being history centric and requiring the virgin birth and resurrection of Christ, and salvation through Him.
Hindus are accepting of Christ, and more. But I tell you this; Both approaches can lead to a very happy life for whomever feels a resonance with it. Why do I say this? Because it’s fundamentally the approach of Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism)
Hugely PROPAGANDISTIC.
This EXPOSES JP as just a Protestant Christian with HINDUPHOBIC tendencies
I have read "The Book that Made Your World" and highly recommend it to anyone with an interest in history or different cultures. Amazing humble man! I am not sure he knows the significance of his work!
that book and it's author's entire life mission is to convert everyone into Cryinsanity.. that's why the book and his life is a joke.. better to ignore
Please bring J Saideepak on your podcast.
This will be one of the most epic collaborations for Indian audience.
Vo kyun bulayega. Uska gospel truth wali cheez khatre me aa jayegi. Missionaries se bada bhagwan koi thodi hain jamuna Peterson ke hisaab se.
@@singhnaveen5694 😂😂😂 actually I thought that for a while considering the content of the video like sati, female foeticide. India aur Hinduism ko defame karna inke jeevan ka maksad hai bc 🤣
J Saideepak would destroy this bullshittery left and right 🤣🤣✌️
@@singhnaveen5694 nahi aygi ..chacha..we don't cry like hum khatre me hai so chill ✌️
@@Ankita-vr8ridon't worry to respond me. I know what to take seriously and what not. To madam aap chill maaro 😂
@@singhnaveen5694 we are chilling only 😎 by the way read rajtarangni by kalhana..he was one of the ancient historican..though i guess you haven't heard about him...
I recommend you read "The India That is Bharat: Coloniality, Civilisation, Constitution" by J Sai Deepak.
A very comprehensive read that goes through the civilisational history of India and the effects of coloniality that yet lingers.
Great recommendation!
That might be inconvenient to his bible-thumping narrative.
read Vishal Mangalwadi, he is also against colonolism and highlights the effects of colonolism.
@@kranthiraj667 you're a shameless person. Stop trying to manipulate people into your anti-Hindu agenda. I didn't even have to look for one minute to find you trying to defame Hinduism in another of your comments. You shameless missionaries and Hinduphobes need to get a life and stop harassing Hindus. I don't know if you're a sub erted demoralized self hating Hindu, or some Christian missionary it doesn't really matter... I see your obviously anti-Hindu agenda. Stop spreading lies.
India is the only culture to resist the forced conversions to Abrahmic faiths and still succeed. If Jordan is willing to look at both sides, if he shows the negative influences from Bible, he'll lose most of his fanbase. I've spoken with enough westerners regarding this. With white people, the leftists will look at you like a subhuman who deserves to be saved, a Right winger looks at you like a subhuman who deserves to be exploited. That's why at the end of the day, both political sides of the Western society gets very uncomfortable with India's progress. Their leftists like Indians but not Hindus, their RW doesn't like Hindus or Indians.
This conversation was extremely biased. If Jordan Peterson is truly interested in getting a holistic perspective of India and Hinduism, he should talk to Sanjay Dixit (Jaipur Dialogues), J Sai Deepak, Pandit Satish Sharma and Abhijit Chavda.
Mr. J Sai Deepak is way too sharp to play with for Mr. J.P. JSD is a bias killer, remedy and nightmare at the same time for these intellectual turned evangelists.
Please tag Jordan on Twitter along with these guys so that he gets in touch with reality.
😂😂😂😂.
The guy is the discussion is a Protestant evangelical.
Just check his channel.
So the 'great' JP turns out to be just this???
Cannot grasp the profundity of Indic civilasation
Complains for being baised, asks to call baised hindutva nationalists. 👏
From @48:56 to 51:01
1. The kings exploited the peasants, put that wealth as Gold, Silver & Diamonds inside temples,
2. So when an Invader attacks the Kingdom, why should an untouchable defend the kingdom.
3. This is what is happening in India today, everyday (i.e 2022)
4. The lower caste people who are trying to recover their dignity, because the Hindu religious system has made me lower than animals
5. For those who want to convert to christianity, there is persecution happening everyday in India today
6. Mr. Jordan Peterson then goes onto make statement that Hindu Caste system is so damming in the Biblical perspective and the Hindu Karma doctrine was a means to justify their situation
7. Karma justifies the suffering and any help done to elevate their suffering would be counter-productive
8. Vishal Mangalwadi:- it is even more bad and then goes on to justify the bible
Statement 3 is for the present and rest all are of the past.
Jordan Peterson :- All the statements do not sound to you as the similar case of the Kulaks, wherin a Lenin/Stalin needed to destroy the Bourgeoisie.
You talk at length about the Kulaks and Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
Counter for Statement No 3:-
Lavanya (17), a Class 12 student of Sacred Hearts Higher Secondary School in Thanjavur district, had died by suicide in January due to the torture she suffered from two nuns of the school who pressurised her to convert to Christianity.
She was made to drink pesticide and was forced to clean the toilets.
And there are many more cases, if the Media talks about it the people like Vishal Mangalwadi get offended and make such statements.
People like Vishal Mangalwadi are there everywhere who will only vitiate the environment, but you let your bias continue
@1:25:36 onwards :-
9. Vishal Mangalwadi:- A Stone age tribe cannot be taught science or business law
10. Jordan Peterson:- Indirectly asks isn't it the responsibility of the western civilization to civilise these stone age people.
@1:26:18:- the smug faces of both these individuals is a sight to behold
The statements 9 & 10 are in direct contradiction with statement 1,
A civilisation which had the means to build temples, generate wealth in the form of gold, silver diamonds then only a person like Vishal Mangalwadi & JP can behave like a colonialist to justify statements 9 & 10
these are just 2 issues, there are several other claims made by both. JP has brought a Crypto Christian to vomit his hatred about all things relating to Hinduism
Not trying to say that caste discrimination or oppression does not exist, but for JP to be silent at statement no 3 is a huge disappointment.
Maybe JP should have discussion with Meenakshi jain, Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak, but i highly doubt that would happen based on his behaviour as described in statements 9 & 10
49:00 , comparing discrimation with genocide ? we should also talk about crusades , Spanish inquistion , jews persecution , persecution of pagans , Goa inquisition , slavery done by christian churches , genocide of native Americans ,
From @48:56 to 51:01
1. The kings exploited the peasants, put that wealth as Gold, Silver & Diamonds inside temples,
2. So when an Invader attacks the Kingdom, why should an untouchable defend the kingdom.
3. This is what is happening in India today, everyday (i.e 2022)
4. The lower caste people who are trying to recover their dignity, because the Hindu religious system has made me lower than animals
5. For those who want to convert to christianity, there is persecution happening everyday in India today
6. Mr. Jordan Peterson then goes onto make statement that Hindu Caste system is so damming in the Biblical perspective and the Hindu Karma doctrine was a means to justify their situation
7. Karma justifies the suffering and any help done to elevate their suffering would be counter-productive
8. Vishal Mangalwadi:- it is even more bad and then goes on to justify the bible
Statement 3 is for the present and rest all are of the past.
Jordan Peterson :- All the statements do not sound to you as the similar case of the Kulaks, wherin a Lenin/Stalin needed to destroy the Bourgeoisie.
You talk at length about the Kulaks and Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
Counter for Statement No 3:-
Lavanya (17), a Class 12 student of Sacred Hearts Higher Secondary School in Thanjavur district, had died by suicide in January due to the torture she suffered from two nuns of the school who pressurised her to convert to Christianity.
She was made to drink pesticide and was forced to clean the toilets.
And there are many more cases, if the Media talks about it the people like Vishal Mangalwadi get offended and make such statements.
People like Vishal Mangalwadi are there everywhere who will only vitiate the environment, but you let your bias continue
@1:25:36 onwards :-
9. Vishal Mangalwadi:- A Stone age tribe cannot be taught science or business law
10. Jordan Peterson:- Indirectly asks isn't it the responsibility of the western civilization to civilise these stone age people.
@1:26:18:- the smug faces of both these individuals is a sight to behold
The statements 9 & 10 are in direct contradiction with statement 1,
A civilisation which had the means to build temples, generate wealth in the form of gold, silver diamonds then only a person like Vishal Mangalwadi & JP can behave like a colonialist to justify statements 9 & 10
these are just 2 issues, there are several other claims made by both. JP has brought a Crypto Christian to vomit his hatred about all things relating to Hinduism
Not trying to say that caste discrimination or oppression does not exist, but for JP to be silent at statement no 3 is a huge disappointment.
Maybe JP should have discussion with Meenakshi jain, Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak, but i highly doubt that would happen based on his behaviour as described in statements 9 & 10
@@sickular_propoganda PERIOD.
@@sickular_propoganda
JP is a Christian apologist
Let’s talk Black people catching Black People to sell them firstly to arabs for 1000 years and then sold them to europeans.
Let’s talk to who did abolished slavery and who were unhappy about it.
12:12 Factual ERROR : There is no national language of India as per the constitution, Hindi and English both are considered the official language of India
You are right. India has not been able to have an “official” language. Modern Hindi, like all other vernaculars, was created by Bible translators.
@@VishalMangalwadi1 STOP LYING AND MANIPULATING.
@@VishalMangalwadi1 Your opinion that modern Indian vernaculars were created by Bible translators is factually inaccurate. It is one thing to say that 'translators of the Bible created new words, which contributed to and enriched Indian languages', but to imply that modern Indian vernaculars are the sole result of Bible translations is dishonest. Vernaculars have influence from multitude of sources, of which, Bible can be one. But no way it is the only, or even the most influential source as far as Indian vernaculars are concerned.
Christian missionaries tried to convert poor sections of Indian society by using fault lines since 1500s, but they never got much success other than Malabar region and North East India.
The most ironic part about all of this is that : Christian missionaries claim to free them from "evil caste" chains but even after 10 generations of conversation, they never stopped using caste identity. Dalits Christian is still a thing.
@@davidcole1475 India will be fully converted only and only when it's Kaliyuga, the age of darkness, when we will stop living in Truth entirely. The sad thing is, we're indeed in this dark age currently, albeit just in the golden years of it where not all Truth is lost yet! If this were a golden age then the doctrine of Dharma would've prevailed.
@@davidcole1475 But which heaven exactly? There are seven heavens in total. Which one are you talking about exactly when you say heaven? Do you mean the highest one, where the God himself dwells? Then you're talking about Brahmaloka where the creator of this world, Brahma, dwells. But we don't worship that god here. Ask us why.
@@davidcole1475 lmao. I'm literally stating what is truth. Unlike you, I've not based my whole worldview on just one single book but rather studied each and every religion after I realised that what we call today as Christianity is based upon lies and manipulation. I was a Christian, dude! A devote, god fearing Christian. After my awakening I realised that Christianity is not actually based upon Truth. This realisation also made me look into gnosticism and all the dots started to connect, it all started to make sense. You'll be awakened too, IF you're meant to and search for the Truth hard enough.
@@davidcole1475 Says who? Who has accepted the lies of the church and the Bible and never bothered to search for the Truth himself? Yeah right
@@davidcole1475 That's exactly what I'm talking about. I've read what he preached and how he lived, that's where my views are coming from! Don't read the Indian scriptures if you think that's satanic, fine? But atleast read the gnostic scriptures. Just go beyond your modern Bible is all I'm saying. Explore more.
Bible shaped India?
I haven’t watched the whole podcast but Peterson sir! Are you serious
I ask you. Are you even serious with that pic? Hahah
@@markyuto6820 look its an inside joke. If you know it you know it.
You adopted western institutions
that were influenced by the Bible
So obviously India to some degree
Was influenced by the Bible culturally
@@swaythegod5812 that was a good one!
@@swaythegod5812 and how much were those institutions influenced by india?
I mean jpb does yoga
Also Carl yung who's greatly influences jpb is greatly influenced by Vedas and sanatan dharma
So where does that discussion go?
Hmmm... This whole interview reeks of confirmation bias. And he seems to have read his history from Romila Thappar. A known Marxist historian who has warped Indian history.
Just his mentioning of the Ashwamedha as the reason for India's weakness is ridiculous. Where the English performing Ashwamedha when the Vikings invaded?
No! Sometimes geopolitics is just such that you are weakened due to infighting and can't stand up to a foreign enemy.
Then the part about the bare breasted women of Travancore. That is a highly disputed story. Women being bare breast was not a taboo until Victorian morality rolled up in India. And given the tropical climate of Travancore it makes sense. There are many paintings and sculptures of Godesses as being bare breast.
At one point he says that there were no written scripts before the bible? Tamil and Sanskrit have scripts going back millennia.
The Rig Vedas were written down in 1000 years before Christ, so not sure how he could not find a written copy in 1960.
This conversation is similar to what happened with excess covid death reporting.
Western media in 2021 had projected the deaths due to covid in India as 4.3 million.
Then in 2022 the WHO repeats this propoganda and says the deaths 4.7 million.
In a nutshell what the west is saying is whatever the Hindus say, of something about hinduism is good, then the only 1/10 th is good.
If something bad has happened in India, then multiply it with a factor of 10
India is fascinating to me as one of the oldest relatively preserved civilizations still around, along with Greece.
Where do you think Greece got their knowledge from 🌚
@@katelynf4927 If you have not heard of the book "The Shape of Ancient Thought", please check it out. It is a MASTERPIECE of historical writing.
@@paulthomas281 thank you!!! :) funny I literally just typed up a reading list. Appreciated
@@paulthomas281: Amazing book. Great suggestion!
Malgalwadi's views are not the real data --- he has made up his world
watch Jaipur dialogues for the refutation -
Please interview Abhijit Chavada, Indian historian.
Jio mere sher ye baat. Ye Gora sahab apni kahani chodte hi nahin.
@@ankiiths3274 Translate bro
@@r.ssumedh7626 he meant that The white man (Jordan) wants to put his own narrative.
That would potray real indian history and real impact of British raj on india .
Indian mythologian.... 🤣 all are cooked up stories. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Peterson sahab aapse ye umeed nhi thi... I am not able to resonate though some things are right but the Title itself is flawed... No way Bible has shaped India and it can never in in million years shape it....
Sir, I would request you to bring Abhijit Chavda as a guest, cause the whole conversation would have gone on a different path altogether if he would have been here
All of India's institutions originate back to British era. Common law and democracy is what's followed in India.
Education is in India created by missionaries. Read the history.
@@sauravcyrus1935 lol then why thier is nalanda University. They Just destroy our education system
@@lipuna ohh really who had what?
That's why you have cast system for broke the unity and that's why muslims invad you. Because if you were united nobody could have loot you.
That's a fact.
And ask a man's cast who clean your gutters.
A detailed book "How The Bible Created Modern India" is coming soon on 15 August 2022.
Mangalwadi mentions Charles Grant and William Wilberforce in this talk.
Below is the extract from Sri meenakshi jain's book sati
"Thus we trust, it has been envinced.... The moral character and condition of the natives is extremely depraved and the state of society is wretched. The evils have been shewn to lie beyond... however good they (hindoos) have been traced to their civil and religious institutions, they(hindoos) have been proved to inhere in general spirit and many positive enactments of law and more powerfully still in the false corrupt impure extravagant and ridiculous principles of their religious...a remedy has been proposed for these evils, the introduction of our light...".(Grant 1832: 120)
Charles Grant could not help but appreciate the way of life of Hindus, but his overwhelming hatred for the heathens and desire for colonial power made him say the opposite.
JP has admitted he does not know about history, in the beginning itself, but JP should not make the same generalisation about British colonialism
Vishal and JP are basically Christian Missionary at this point. This whole podcast was full of propaganda and manipulation🤦🏻♀️At least bring a pro-Hindu like Abhijit Chavda. man that's the least you can do
@@deepika2644 if you look they will bring islamic scholar for talking about Islam .christain preacher to talk about Bible and Jesus. It translates to
call anyone to talk about India , it's culture it's philosophy, hinduism .. 😂😂 what's there wid this poor uncivilised pagans. 😂 Not so important. Just call anyone.
@@deepika2644 j sai deepak would tear them apart singlehandedly
50:40 Omg, this a horrible understanding and a conflation of Brahminism with entire Hinduism. The social reformers in South India called Virashaivas and Basavanna and the Siddha Yogi traditions of Tamil Nadu, the Varkari Saint tradition of Maharashtra, Gaudiya Vaishnavism of Bengal, Nath Yogi Parampara of Middle India, the entire tradition of Yogis and Tantra people, all being Hindus have denounced Caste system and demanded equality. Even really Vedic Hindus when they oppressed were transgressing against the message of Vedas as in Bhagavat Gita it is clearly said you have to treat everyone as yourself and God resides them in all. This is literally saying love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ye JBP ki government bik chuki hai ....
@@ankiiths3274 tera akal bigad gaya hai
Pls bring a real good scholar on Hinduism.
Yea he should bring a scholar who is not a Christian and a scholar who embraces *HINDUTVA* 😏
@@catbilota2492 YES.
So a religious preacher?
How about no
@@TheReaper569 Gandu Scholars n religious preacher r different. Scholars work in academics.
@@darshu94 many scholars are preachers though. You ve seen it with muslim scholars JP interviewed.
I have never heard this vile version of Hindu history.... I request Jordon Peterson to call credible indic scholars like Sanjay Dixit, J Sai Deepak or Swami Savrvapriyananda..
Khush kar diye bhaiya tum. Dil jeet liye. Jio mere maati ke sher.
Peterson doesn't care about India. He cares about justifying the genocide across the worlds by white people, and he cares about spreading the cancer of Christianity.
"Vile"? That's a strong statement. In that case we'll just leave it right there 🤷🏻
Too bad you won't engage with his ideas. Just label it and whine to censor the ideas you disagree with. Nice job!
You should counter his "false ideas" with arguments and evidence. Otherwise, take a seat.
Just a few ideas about contextualising issues surrounding topics discussed ....
TL:DR .... India is incredibly huge and a serious investigation of what its religion, culture and politics actually means and how they developed requires way more than just a few anecdotes.
*the west had its own caste system, namely the estates. That was effectively dismantled by the industrial revolution. India got (and is still getting) its industrial revolution quite late. India received in about the 20th century over 65 years what the west received in about 17th century over 300 years. This has a ton of implications ranging from the very idea of nationhood (what to speak of ideas surrounding "nationhood", once that term becomes a viable tool for a community's rumination in the space opened up by a redundant or disintegrating caste/estate system ) to the delegation of civic order in the tension between legally accounted mandated laws and mere social norms (there is nothing in the contemporary western lexicon that approximates the Panchayati Raj, namely how things are to this day managed at the Indian village level). I think it is less a question of the degree that Christianity has influenced contemporary India and more a question of how the concomitant offshoots that Christianity pioneered (such as legal frameworks around nationhood, economics, the "institution" as a new social technology, etc) that is more to the point. Its more that because there were no institutions per se (much like there were, for the most part, no institutions in medieval Europe), there were no institutions operating to manage compassion, charity etc. The notion that people in India required Christianity in order to integrate base notions of compassion and charity is absurd.
* Early 1980's India (by all accounts), with Indira Gandhi, was incredibly turbulent. The world was looking on kind of nervously wondering whether there was going to be a democracy or a despotic form of government. Doesn't matter where you look in the world, you are not going to find shining examples of virtue in persons who are caught in the grip of poverty and chaos. Politics is pretty zany everywhere, and the fact that the comings and goings, for better or for worse, of the world's largest democracy never really permeates international news feeds is an indication that there is something about it that just has too much background information and noise to be easily digestible.
*Because there is a sort of village identity that predominates in rural India, it is less the case that individuals convert to Christianity and more the case that families and even entire villages convert to Christianity. And a lot of the times there can be a sort of coercing or reluctance that goes into that .... and this creates its own unique tensions that commonly and inevitably creates flashpoints .... and at that time people outside see the flashpoints but have no vision of the causes. For instance, a common method for proselytising is to offer cash incentives (maybe something like 1000usd per person) to convert to Christianity. A lot of the time that comes with a lot of disparaging of local customs (often broadcast over 120 decibel loud speakers outside the church ... its kind of par for the course of religion in India, regardless of faith ... the 120 decibel PA system, not the public disparagement of competing faiths) ... 8th commandment is kind of a popular one to be vocal about, more so than the 1st... so it is less a "leap of faith" as it is commonly understood in the west and more a covert form of manipulation, enticement or just simply going along with what you have already thrown your lot in with socially, whether it be one's family or one's village. Of course others who may convert in more urban or educated circles would certainly have a different experience, but it is mostly in these village backwater places that all these news stories about extreme christian persecution come from. Anyway I am just offering this by way of explanation. I don't think there is any obvious solution. It is part of a bigger issue in that Indian culture has traditionally been introverted, and the notion that a universalizing proposition demands proselytising is just borrowed from the west, .... and there's a whole lot of circling the wagons that now goes on in the name of orthodoxy, and not exclusively in expressions of christianity, I might add ...
* there is a tendency to default to the notion that adwaita (monist) schools are the sole contender for India's spiritual heritage, completely bypassing the dwaita (dualist) schools. I think this is because the monist school integrates better with Buddhism (and historians love being able to show cause and effect seamlessly). There is an even an argument that the British gave , upon their arrival on the scene, undue importance to monism (love of historians, the unavoidable and awkward problems of sanskrit being patently categorized as an "Indo-European" language, etc).There is literally a ton of commentaries available from the past 1000 or so years on precisely what the dualists (Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarkha, Vishnuswsmi) and the monists (Sankhacharya) have to say about things. This is not just some cerebral venture into ecclesiastical hair splitting ... when citing Brahman (the undifferentiated oneness that permeates reality) as an orthodoxical precept that errodes personalism (and thus underpins a malefic disregard of civic obligation in the guise of impersonalism), one really should examine precisely what orthodoxy one is drawing from. For a very basic starter, such an examination would determine whether there is value in decompressing the 4 vedas or beginning first with the Puranas (Narratives based on the vedas). Given Peterson's full engagement with narrative, it is disappointing to not really see him engage with the Puranas. Even in Maps of Meaning, when he briefly touched on Indra's encounter with Vrtasura (a pastime that is packed with core values of the dualist schools), it rung of some sterile excerpt from the work of some other santized monist influenced western academic who probably didn't know any better himself.
Agree with all your points.
But, don't even think this guy JP is reading these comments.
He seems to have an agenda here.
“The king's under the law, for it's the law makes him a king.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy.
Ever think about how weird that must have sounded to Cor after living in Calormen?
From being 100 percent educated before British and 17 percent in 1947, secondly the greek ( cradle of western civilization ) recognised indians as sages and people of great culture and knowledge , the philosophy of various thing that you call western has its origins from India , the are various mentions buy Greeks themselves that indian was a republican state read megatheses plz , there no battle of philosophy and science between your civilization and mine ,plz read
100%?! lowers castes weren't even allowed to read and write
Exactly
Incorrect. Alexander's Greeks invaded India a full two and a half thousand years ago. At that time, there was no unitary entity called India. The region was populated with various republics and kingdoms.
@@gauravtejpal8901 hey ignorant it was always called bharat... it was divided between different kingdoms. it was always called aryavarta.
@@abhijeetsingh4824 No. You are the ignorant one. Its sad that you have tried your ego to it
I’m sure you’ll also get a Hindu to speak for Hinduism , it’s strengths and weaknesses soon. A practicing Hindu , not one just by name, that is.
Read the bible brother just for a time. 🙏❤️
I am sure he will.
A Santanai would be a better word.
Go to India with a free mind. Not for a day or two. You will know what Hinduism is all about. It’s the the way of life. There are no books to read and learn about Hinduism.👍🏽
@@sauravcyrus1935 i don’t need saving , mate. Besides , it’s completely irrelevant to what I said.
After Islam, Church did most harm to great civilization of Bharat. And these vultures will not stop feeding on her.
Sorry Jordan but if you really want to learn about Christianity's effect on India you need to see it from the Non-Christian side as well.
Bring Abhijit Chavda
Ah an indian nationalist...
We already know everything you could say on the topic
@@TheReaper569 I am an Indian nationalist. There's nothing wrong with that.
What I have to say is that India has become worse off since Islam and Christianity came here.
@@globalnationalismyoutube or how about this?
İndia became far worse than its ancient origins therefore fell to the influence of rising powers like islam and the west?
İ also dont think indian women still need to be topless when prime minister arrives.
So what became worse exactly.
@@TheReaper569 When Islam came millions of Hindus were killed.
The Christians also killed millions of Hindus when they invaded and colonised us.
India would have been better off if these invasions never happened.
Wow! The gullibility of non-Hindus commenting on this interview are so stark.
12:08
from wikipedia:
Quran in Hindi: Kanzul Iman by Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Alaihirrahma[77] translated in the early 1910
Quran in Urdu: Shah Abdul Qadir, son of Shah Abdul Aziz Dehlawi, produced the first Urdu translation in 1826. One of the authentic translations of the Qurʻan in Urdu was done by Abul A'la Maududi and was named Tafhimu'l-Qur'an. Molana Ashiq Elahi Merathi also translated the Qurʻan in Urdu.
so?
@@Pasdpawn so he was not accurate when he said that the Quran did not exist in Hindi or Urdu?
@@bbahaida i think he was more talking about the availability. For most muslims don't read the Quran in their mother tongue and it's not spread much.
It's my guess.
@@christophsurbeck2814 I'm not attacking the man, I think he's quite a nice person, I'm just pointing out the facts about what he said regarding the constraints that prevented him from reaching the message of the Quran. And maybe he just didn't want to read it like most Christians I know.
@@bbahaida i see no objection he could have had to read the quran, if he had one. He seemed to have been in the mode of exploring. So it would have been interesting for him to read the Quran.
What i mean is this: if you go to somalia which is an official muslim country, it would still be hard to find a somali translation. Though it is available. But some might even not know it and say there is none. Most afghans i know read the quran in srabic without understanding it but still wouldn't read a dhari translation. They even might not find one, even though I'm sure there must be a translation.
However, i think he would have been interested to read it and i wouldn't know why he dhould have objected reading it.
To all the Hindus and Indians who have commented here. I deeply and truly say to you Aap Sabko Koti Koti Pranam. Dhanyawad. Bhaiya main akele chilate chilate thak gaya inke channel par. Ye kabhi islam ko peaceful batate hain Kabho christanoty ko.
Ye sabko mis- inform kar rahein hai bahut pehle se. Jab se last baar bimaar hokar aaye hain tab se ye agenda driven ho gaye hain.
AAj main bahut prasann hun. Dhanyawad Bhaiya aur didi aap sabka.
Mai bhi yahi soch rha tha. Ise Indian right wing waalo ko bulaana chahiye taaki reality bhi pta chle
@@himanshurai2854 kya right winger bhaiya. Koi bhi baat main agar hindu apni baat rakhe to wo bhakt hai ya right winger hai. Ye log nahin bulate paisa nahin milega na.
Is video dekhne ke baad mujhe kuch questions hain. Yeh sach hai ki aap log (Hindus) widows ko zinda jalate hain? Ya yeh sach hai ki aap ke vichar se log vidhvaon ko zinda jalana accha hai? Aur choti-choti larkiyon ko marne ke bare main aap log aisa sochte hain ki yeh bhi normal hai? Kyonki main Europe se huun aur is video se main yeh ideas prapt ki...
@@liatresanos3769 it used to be an ancient practice which came into the society with the advent of the islamic invasion of India. However In the 19 century , with the collective efforts of Hindu social reformers and the Brits it was rightly abolished and has since never been practiced anywhere in India. Mind you, even at its peak it was not a Pan India phenomenon rather limited to reigons of islamic invasion.
@@hindeshrai8787 aha, so mentioning the burning of the wives in this context would be similar to pulling out the mediaeval burnings in Europe and concluding that "a true God would never want such things to happen". What about the starving little girl? Here I am more sceptical because I know there are cruel people who treat others like animals all around the world and I suppose extreme poverty and lack of education in rural areas only exacerbates that. I can understand the deep psychological impact of seeing such lack of morality because I have seen many amoral acts also and to witness crap like that leaves the person extremely disgusted with anything that is related to the perpetrators. However, to my knowledge, there is no such thing in Hindu religious teachings as women being less than men per se. I hope I am not wrong at this point. Correct me if you could show me a passage somewhere in your scriptures where it says specifically that a woman has no soul and thus can be dismissed I would appreciate.
I enjoy his talks but when it comes to India and its culture, JP is a big disappointment.
Intellectual like him, when discuss things without knowledge/research is like someone is talking about life on Pluto without seeing it or knowing it.
To understand religion and culture of India, he has to get out of Abrahmic tradition of following one book, a monotheistic tradition and stop mapping India with the same template. Knowing the Vedas, some popular terms like caste system, meditation and yoga doesn't mean knowing India or its culture.
(Unless it is a paid propaganda just like million others are).
Have you read the Bible?
Agreed.
Well he is pretty old to be studying Vedas now. Theres so much to learn and process
do you think the same people who lived there 1000 or 2000 years ago and all the way back to the bronze age is the same people who live there today. dont you think they would be a very small minority by now? its very sad to see such a beautiful place on earth destroyed by money, greed and so on wich has nothing to do with culture at all. do we know that the caste system isnt some perversion of the real deal ? from what i see, is that the people in power only cares about everything else than the culture of their land. they take that away from people so they can take that to their own benefit and make $$$
Absolutely 🙌
I can agree with many of Vishal Mangalwadi's points. Christian Missionaries did improve India tremendously and Hinduism did not really contribute much
yeah the goa persecutions and european racist ideologies contributed to improvement
@@blayses3116 did I say everything did by them was good? There were extremists off course and we condemn them
@@manojgabriel6128 christians did a lot more harm than good to india
Theory of karma is the butchered by this gentleman very clearly
Time stamp
@@Dank.man45 in the description, actually. welcome to a channel that cares about things like that. you know, actually trying.
Your statement makes no grammatical sense. What are you trying to say?
Karma basically means causes and consequences.
The superstitious part exist in all religions at a low resolution interpretation.
Eveyones should read guenon , his views about differents degrees of resolution in the religious content are significants.
Maybe so, but he covered that part where the poor and destitute should remain so... So that they can work out their karma!! Come on man!
50:20 I was baffled at the ignorance in the discussion on "the doctrine of Karma" and the following discussion on the caste system. Karma at its very core (from what Buddha described) is simply mental volitional action, which has consequences. So essentially a "doctrine of causality" pertaining to the mind-matter phenomenon. It is certainly not static. In fact, the entire purpose of India's various spiritual paths is to improve your Karmic actions (the methods each propose may differ) through individual effort to ultimately reach a stage of liberation/moksha/nirvana.
This ignorance also comes through in an earlier discussion on the rule of law and natural rights, where it is assumed that India's modern laws and fundamental rights could only have been derived from Biblical concepts as perhaps India did not have its own "transcendant moral order". Dr Ambedkar - the father of India's constitution - in a speech after submitting the final draft said that by becoming a parliamentary constituency again, India is back to its Buddhist roots. A lot could could have been discussed here on Dharma, which literally translates to natural law that applies to all beings.
I lost interest in the analysis after this. Perhaps someone with a more sophisticated understanding of these concepts would have served the discussion better. Very unfortunate that this is gradually turning into an East or West, Christianity is the best podcast.
This guy is a Christian missionary what did you expect? I am glad though most Hindus in comment section are actually pointing out the blatant propaganda
vijay mallya is so profound when you sit and talk to him🙏
Yeah the conman Vijay mallya
@@jollygood4591 he seems to be really religious now
😅🤣😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
As a hispanic catholic i have to say that there is an aspect of the history that no many know. Everything that is said in this video is just the anglosaxon view of the Christian-liberty development of our societies, which is ok, but it's just a part. The hispanic culture developed has their own.
But JP should have read about India and its history before talking to Vishal. The fact he did not, and swallowed all the nonsense, makes him look like he has adopted the mentality of the wretched colonizers and the accompanying missionaries!
This missionary has lied as much as possible to whatever extent he could. We too believed all these things before the internet because they used to suppress any facts that were counter to their narrative. Would suggest you to follow J Sai Deepak for understanding our views better.
The hatred of certain Ibdians for Christians is quite frankly demonic, and the comments show. God have pity, Mother of God pray for us 🙏
@@VirginMostPowerfull Actions speak louder than words. Throughout history, biblical passages have been used to justify the use of force against heretics, sinners and external enemies. The Inquisitions, Crusades, wars of religion and antisemitism are among the most notorious examples of Christian violence. Christian faith inspires violence in at least two ways. First, people often kill other human beings because they believe that the creator of the universe wants them to do it... Second, far greater numbers of people fall into conflict with one another because they define their moral community on the basis of their religious affiliation.
Over many centuries Christians killed thousands, perhaps millions, for the crime of not being Christian or sometimes for the crime of not being sufficiently Christian. Some were killed by the sword, some burned alive, some drowned, some buried alive, some garrotted, some forced to face wild animals. Traditional Christian history books rarely find room for this side of the story, nor the role of bishops, priests, monks and friars. The biggest genocide in the history of humankind was not perpetrated against Jews, but against native Americans. Over 100 million native Americans were slaughtered by Christians. Christian missionaries used British induced famines, killing nearly 50 million Indians, to spread Christianity.
In 1923, a publication from America named “India and its Missions” discussed the advantages of British induced famines and diseases using Christianity. It says, “The famine has wrought miracles. The catechumenates are filling, baptismal water flows in streams and starving little tots fly in masses to heaven.”
So yes these Christians indeed were - as you put it 'demonic' and genocidal.
@@jaikant5158 Most of what you said was completely irrelevant to the situation in India. Something that would be relevant however is that Indians martyred one of the apostles, St. Thomas. And ever since, Christians have been persecuted in India.
You put up a smoke screen when in reality India has cast system for social cohesion, that alone is a disgrace to human rights and Christians fight against that.
I have no heard of this plan you speak of about this famine mission. But what I do know is that India's economy has significantly increased ever since the British came along. Complaining about misery naturally leading people to seek refuge in God is of itself an admission that Hinduism doesn't give this same safety and peace of mind, especially for the lower casts.
'The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]'
Bhagavad Gita. Chapter 5, verse 18
But would he see a child being sacrificed and oppose it , would he see a rape and opppse it. If yes then he is admitting that some ways of life lead you away from God and all paths dont lead to God.
@@akhiljames3435 Jesus did not oppose the genocide of 100 million native americans, he does not oppose rapes committed every 1 to 2 minutes in the USA, he does not oppose child marriages in the US and UK, he does not oppose shooting of children in the US. And you are telling, this path leads to God? This is your reasoning?
untouchabilty is a british contruction, it has never been a hindu concept, caste is derived from a portugese term defining sub structures in christian states
Self-delusion is often functional, you can live a valid life and believe the earth is flat, so good luck with your belief, I wish it gives you what you want in life.
That is literally what we call bullshit, caste is a pre christian concept. The British did use it to their advantage but they never constructed it. And its not like British Empire has caste system going on at all countries they colonized, its only India it seems to have a deep root, why do you think it is so if its not ingrained in India's core culture from centuries?
The word caste actually has it's roots in Latin (castus) meaning separated or cut off. The cut off definition means more like pure, faultless, as in cut off from sin. I think that you'll find many countries have a caste system, including Japan which has it's own caste of untouchables, formed without any British intervention if history is to be believed..
Achoot (untouchable) is the native word you're looking for.
This conversation has so many factual and theoretical errors thats its mind boggling. The only reason why Dr Peterson didnt counter it might be because he doesnt know Indian history and its religious philosophies, as he himself confesses in the beginning. That being said, a proper Indic scholar well versed on the Indic framework itself should be called on to discuss these matters if Dr Peterson is interested in a nuanced perspective and not the inaccurate hogwash that is characteristic of many historians with vested interests.
Can you please share a few factual and theoretical error which you observed, it would be interesting to know.
Hi Mike,
The TH-cam comment section is certainly not the place to speak about these matters at length. They require nuance and also several historical and philosophical aspects to be made clear.
I will share an article at a later time.
Moreover, by pointing out the issues with Vishal's narrative (which he surely is free to do so as he pleases) will not be seen an honest intellectual exercise by people like our friend Michael, no matter how well grounded I am in the matter. So I respectfully decline from going forward with this conversation on the comment section. Please reach out separately if interested.
Thanks
@@nitinajithkumar If an accusation is levelled against someone then there should be a minimum decency to provide facts to backup those accusations which is sign of scholarly understanding else it is considered as a kiddish way of name calling and running away under the guise of respectability which was already lost when the accusations were levelled....it can also reflect as an intent of creating confusion and doubts in infant minds who blindly follow their masters.
I just asked for a few out of the many mind boggling errors you observed my frn.
this indicates, in a sort, the blind respect jordan has developed for baptized people out of his faith in "the Bible" and God.
@@meetjeev if there was one or a few or several errors there, it would have been possible to point them out and present with facts and lengthy discussions on the subjects particular. but due to the sheer pointlessness of this video and the errors and ramblings of this propagandist Mangalwadi, it is made impossible for any person to try to present each of it with facts and especially because that would be pointless, as the man talking in the video lacks any credibility you can ever give to him. read through the comment section you'll find many arguments, presentation of facts therein and many more things.
take this comment in indifference. this is written in an indifferent manner.
I request Jordan Peterson to invite Dr. Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak on his podcast. You'll never understand Bharat (India) with the western Abrahamic lens and will end up making the same mistakes as the erstwhile British colonisers.
But a warning. Both Rajiv Malhotra, JSD will fundamentally challenge your framework of ideas.
Rajiv has reached out to Jordan many times but gets ignored. JBP could use some insight from them
Dear Dr Peterson, Mr Mangalwadi's views on Indic faiths is incomplete.
*Thanks for watching send a direct*
*message right away I will love to hear your*
*thoughts on it and for more enlightenment👆❤️*
No conversation on Indic faiths will be complete.
Why not invite J Sai Deepak for counter views on this subject? It's only fair. We get to hear the other side of the story too, right?
i love j sai but i think there are more senior hindu scholars who should be invited.
@Jordan B Peterson you should do a podcast with Abhijit Chavda, Dr. Subhas Kak, or Rajiv Malhotra for a better understanding of Indian History and culture. Christianism in India, and Vedas. Abhijit doesn't mince his words or try to sugarcoat or whitewash History. For Sanskrit, you can invite Nityānanda Miśra. He is very good. The Cast system explained by Mr. Vishal is pretty misleading. The Cast system itself needs a whole podcast.
Charlie Kirk mentioned “The Book That Made Your World. By Vishal Mangalwadi. I started reading it a couple days ago and looked This up. I traveled to India in 1976. I was amazed by how poor people were. We were heading in the same direction if Kamala had been elected. Interesting to study such a brilliant man.
53:00
Jordan takes a really uneducated take here, presuming the Catholic church didn’t want people to read the Bible while simultaneously reading it to them every week.
Also, the Catholic church has grown in Africa more in this century than in Europe over the last 5 and that’s taking place almost exclusively in the vernacular so this point about “if people knew the Bible, they would cease to believe in the faith of the church of the Apostle Peter” is just very silly
I was born and raised Catholic until I was 11 or 12. I never once heard a priest tell us to read the Bible. Once I read it, I knew I was right to leave Catholicism.
@@michellepeckham4610 Haha what?
The priest didn’t read the Bible to you every Sunday (and every other day of the week) ?
Also, obviously study of the Scriptures is important.
But where in the Bible does Jesus tell his followers to write a book?
Over and again he tells us to pray, fast and love each other in humility…but never to get our faith from a book.
We get our faith from God, and Christ made apostles who made bishops and priests to share what he had taught them…particularly to pray, baptize, confess, heal and break bread.
Reading the Bible is not enough to be fully alive in Christ, you need the community he set up (the very catholic community that organized the Bible in the first place) to support you and teach you.
The Church is the first-hand encounter with Christ in the sacraments. The Bible is a second-hand account, and while very important, not everybody has to be a literate scholar to be an amazing Christian.
God help us all stay the true Path.
You didn’t understand what I said. The priests never encouraged us to read the Bible for ourselves. You are right. They gave us bits every Sunday. You really should read the word of God for yourself so you would know your God more. You cannot worship Him without knowing Him. One should not rely on the priests’ interpretation of His words.
I have learned to worship Him in spirit and in truth. I pray God will lead you to The Truth.
They didn't I'm afraid, the Catholic Church argued that a spread of the Bible would cause a splintering of the faith (which it did), it would no longer be catholic in the universal sense. They claimed that only the Church (Roman Catholics) had the authority to interpret Scripture, not the peasant boy across the street.
@@tomdownunder749 Okay where did the peasant boy learn to translate Greek and Hebrew into the local language and then spend a lifetime studying which books should be canon and which books are gnostic texts that have no relation to the faith that Christ gave to the apostles?
Mr. JORDON , YOU HAD A LOT OF REAPECT IN INDIA... BUT BRINGING THIS NO BODY HAS LOST A LOT OF RESPECT TODAY
I would really like to see Dr Peterson speak with Dr Michael Heiser about biblical concepts that are outside of traditional mindsets, it would be interesting to hear what Dr Peterson has to say about some of the things that Dr. Heiser says about the Divine council.
Do you know if Justin Peterson is really saved I keep looking and looking and cannot find a clear answer???
And I totally agree
Sadly, too late for that on earth. But, let's pray for JBP that he can have the discussion in the glorious yonder!
His name is Jordan, not Justin, and nobody knows whether he is saved or not. That's between him and God.@@emsdiy6857
40:00 if you don't understand Indian culture and true history then please don't force your incomplete knowledge and ideas Vishal Mangalwadi, please.
India was the motherland of our race
and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages.
India was the mother of our philosophy,
of much of our mathematics, of the ideals embodied in
Christianity... of self-government and democracy.
In many ways, Mother India is the mother of us all.
Will Durant
@@ntskl 🤣🤣🤣🤣 north ? From where ?
@@s.photographer Russian Steppes. Read History. I am aware that many Indians believe the falsity that India is the source of all. Hogwash.
@Penlight I'm Indian and none of what you wrote is true.
@@ntskl He's a Hindu supremacist. They have their own make-believe history
@@timonalexandr151 cause you are a rice bag convert
I am a huge fan of your lectures, the way you think and speak has channelized my intellect significantly. Extremely disappointed that this talk even happened, it goes to show the level of ignorance and blind eye that you turn towards India and its history. It is a grave injustice to you as a scientist and a seeker of truth, to let this huge mistake be left unaddressed. I humbly urge you to dive deep into understanding the history and philosophy that comes from the great land of Bharat to set the record straight. It is understandable that everyone need not know everything, but when there is so much untruth being given a stage like this even a busy and learned man like you has to take a step back and re-evaluate. Given your intellectual stature in the west, I believe it is imperative for you to show us that you are actually an open-minded person and not just a blind missionary of the church.
A few years ago , I was on a camping trip with a few friends in protected national forest near a tribal village , when we were going back we saw missionaries advocating for Bible in tribal villages , offering them rice , money , etc to convert to Christianity , they even had photo of hindu version of Christ..one of them had same beard moustache and black outfit as your guest Mr JP....
Talking about arguments mr. Vishal made , few arguments made sense and most of them seems like the propganda just like those missionaries who tried to coerce those poor villagers...
Some tribal people when they convert they tend to hold on to their old ways of images and so they keep an image of Jesus and give it their own form and worship thinking they are worshipping Jesus. Regardless your remark on giving the poor money and aids to convert is totally false. Nobody in this whole world would truly convert for that. You just made a huge judgment that people in the villages and tribals are incapable of discernment and because of their lack of education they are not capable to make a decision to change religion. Yes Christian help the poor they provide aids but regardless of whether they want to convert or now. They might as well take the aids and remain in their old faith, where I of course they got little to no attention for their needs. Lastly most educated upper caste Hindus from India prefer to go to Christians schools for values and discipline and learn good English. Now when the lower caste or tribals convert they have a problem.
@@AMightyFortress dear lincy , do you think I am lying ..?😕😑 I have nothing against christianity...you can pray anyone you like , they(indians) worship snakes , cows and even trees for that matter...
1st) bribing poors into christianity is nothing new. For those poor people who convert to christianity just get an extra god to pray..but most of the time they are subjected to ridicule and discrimination in society due to their funny western names.. there could be only two things ,either I was hallucinating or they were really curing cancer with their crazy dances..
2nd) They are capable to decide if they want to change their religion,(but purposefully targeting vulnerable is not good in *my opinion) in many cases they do change their religion but most of times they don't , in few instances they get beaten very badly....when people are living on edge of starvation and death then they are not capable of making independent judgement *in my opinion.
3rd) sorry to say but soo called "aids from christianity" are only available to those who convert to christianity and get their exclusive western name.
4th) and lastly about education ,
people from every religion and caste who have some money and ambition, go to those schools , just for one reason and that is english education which is at core of getting decent job in poor countries..
Idk what rosy picture they are painting about missionaries over there in West , as I have seen, my views are not very positive about their activities..
But I think you are entitled to you opinion and Please do some research and mention sources before making bold claims..
At the core of this evangilical business plan is to standardize and homogenise the entire population. Christianity is in direct competition with Islam. All the good news and words of God are unable to make them see the futility of such egocentric, narcissistic endeavours. Possibly a deep rooted insecurity within their believers has been exploited to keep the business plan moving.
@@AMightyFortress well, ground realities are different. It's a noble deed to help out needy and helpless. However it's doesn't begin and end there. Indoctrination of a particular path and then negotiations to adopt it for promise of a better future are activities which can range from being influenced to being manipulated and coercive. As the saying goes - teach someone to fish and they lean to feed themselves for life. Why convert anyone to live by my set of rules and beliefs? Is that what helps someone learn English or is it just an agenda masked within a placebo?
@@shadowgovernment3000 I just hope those alien didn't kidnapped and impregnated you ...and stay away from alien looking bearded missionaries, you never know when they'll try missionary on you..
JP brought a Islamic scholar for discussing Islam while brought Indian "CHRISTIAN" for discussing HINDUISM.
Thus shows how Hindus narrative are lost and are insignificant in western view mindset
The Indians were educated
Only a few selected by the Brits mostly from the upper class of the caste system which the Brits cotified and made more of a problem that it already was
They were educated so that they could create a class of brown sepoys to translate and govern india in a better way
Also it was to "civilise" the beasts of India
To create an inferiority complex in the brown sepoys and at the same time superiority complex from the natives!
"only a few"... surely you cant expect the brits with 1/20th or less of the population to take responsibility for educating the whole of India? Shouldn't you be blaming the Indian elites for not setting up the institutions for their people?
What's your book called?
Stop with the inferiority complex please. India is a bigger and more powerful country that Britain. That was true when Britain was growing its empire too. What happened to the Indians was because of the Indians.
@@cameronblack7984 I'm not saying they had a responsibility of even 1
The point is they didn't do it for the emancipation of Indian people but for their own benefit
Missionaries are no saints
They're snake in Wolf's clothing saying they are sheeps
Perhaps read Vishal’s book and then come back to this statement for a review
This is one of the most fascinating interviews I’ve listen too yet. I feel like there needs to be a multi-episode series on this topic alone.
Tuché
You should check out Jay Dyers content, esp the geopolitical vids. He's extremely precise and thorough in these topics. Not to mention homie has a book room. Not a book shelf.. book *room* . xD
No this crap needs to stop right here
No... We don't need more propaganda and misinformation about our beautiful culture. SHAME ON YOU VISHAL.
It's completely biased one
He said he does not want to read the Quran because it is in Arabic although he can read it in different translation, however , on the other hand he choses to read bible which had been translated from Greek language, from Aramaic original book. His reason doesn’t not add up.
MUSLIMS maintain that Quran must be read in Arabic. Christians don't care if Bible is not read in Greek.
This is not hard to understand for anyone that is of average intelligence.
I had no idea India was ruled by the Muslims prior to the English. Yet many don't know that Palestrina was ruled by the Ottomans for 400 years prior to the English as well.
Yes for 1000 years by moghuls , nizams, turkish, persians etc
Ever realised the west never acknowledges the maratha empire
Why is Maratha important? Hinduism predates Maratha right?
Yea but it's just important cuz history is Important the main transfer of power happened between Sikhs and birtish and marathas and British.
I know this is off topic and not aimed at you, but don't you find the whole eastern/western thing strange. Italy, Austria and half of Europe, australia, new Zealand, parts of Norway and japan are all in the Eastern hemisphere whilst venuzwaila, Paraguay, Cambodia with half of africa are all in the west.
No when they say west, it's referred to the western civilization. Which jp would say is judeo-christian civilization. which includes the several Latin American counties that are Christian
The same civilization that colonized India and the world. Including places in Africa. Congo was Belgian kings personal play ground
I wonder what your intentions are, when you bring in a person from christian missionary to talk about india and it's history. Would you bring in a nazi to talk about jewish history? This doesn't behoove you, Jordan.
False equivalence. I'm a Keralite and what he says about Kerala and erstwhile Travancore kingdom is absolutely correct. We Indians should be willing to be self critical
@@TheRishijoesanuthats false history created by your communist and these Christian missionary. Those fake stories have no facts.
For the first time I've been more interested in what the guest had to say than what JP had to say. This conversation has blown my mind.
Because you like what you want to hear
But there is some mistake Christianity is not new to India when compared to Europe Christianity first came to India in AD 52 through St Thomas the disciple of Christ so Christ is known to south India in Kerala at the same time it was know to Europe and America
I think this may be my favorite interview you've ever done, Dr Peterson! Thank you for spending time on this very important topic. It blew my mind in so many ways.
Did you read the comments section?
@@thehumourist
True
He couldn’t find the Quran in Hindi so he abandoned it all together? How hard was he searching for the truth?
Well it's not the truth so...he was prolly looking hard else where.
Koran is amazing if you give it a chance.
@@pmaster1173 are u authority on truth
My mans was not motivated😆😆 searching for truth my ass
@@themanontheinside it’s a bit silly to say would have been a waste of time when you haven’t even read it. Clearly wasn’t searching hard enough cuz if 2 billion people are claiming it’s the truth maybe just maybe you should check it out.
I know you've said you've taken a break from twitter, but if you would like a positive, insightful circle of people to follow, I would highly recommend the twitter accounts devoted to saving India's ancient architectural heritage. The megalithic masterpieces of ancient India have so much to teach us. Please consider looking into their architecture. Thank you Dr. Peterson.
@@jessicalacasse6205 Agreed!
@@jessicalacasse6205 his mind would blow up if he ever decides to read Bhagvat Gita
Can you recommend some good accounts to follow please? I'm interested
Really stunning architectural works of art Ancient History Criticisms.
I'm interested in following this also!!!
The man took up the lowest common denominator of a culture and normalised it as if the only reality. This is as if picking up medival ills of christianity, and normalising it as the only essence of christianity. You both made out a strawman out of hinduism.
The host(whom I do admire) didn't even know about muslim empires in India. A bit of genuine home work and honesty might help for a better discussion, with regards to India, rather than preconcieved notion and anti pagan bias.
Medieval Christianity was held in high esteem as a time of great virtue by Renaissance great thinker Erasmus, a leading Humanist.
“I saw monarchy without tyranny, aristocracy without factions, democracy without tumult, wealth without luxury,” Erasmus later wrote, idealizing the past. “Would that it had been your lot, divine Plato, to come upon such a republic.” Perhaps most important, medieval man believed that he knew his place in the Economy of Grace, in God’s universe.
@@johnofroncesvalles4255 you forgot mentioning Catholic Church sexual abuses, witch-burning, treatment of homosexuals, inquisition, torture and persecution of Jews and pagans etc. etc.
I Agree, Shivang !
I don't agree. You have reduced a 1:45 hour interview, where he did not just glorify the Bible's contribution but also spoke about colonialism's ills at length, clearly pointing out that it was not one culture that was better than another, rather it was a meeting of two very worldviews, into some soundbites. One would think that one worldview having a definite advantage of supposedly having power on it's side, the reality is more nuanced, early missionaries were considered troublemakers and kept out by the British, simply because they called a spade a spade, with regards to the east india company's early corruption as well as the ills present in Indian society then(the company had no interest in its early days in good governance or reform, India was a means to make money). India is very much living with a Hindu worldview at present. So the colonial project was definitely a failure, from that perspective. But there were some positives to the whole exercise and the speakers point was to shed a light on those positives. In today's shrill chest thumping narrative of Indian preeminence, a bit of humility is what he is calling for. I don't sense any triumphalism in it. Your review needs to be more even-handed.
@@AD-gu6sr 1.I am a Hindu, and I think there is nothing inherently wrong with having a Hindu worldview, as there isn't anything wrong with a christian worldview.
2.Good that you are taking about even handedness. I would expect the same, since you painted a very rosy picture of early missionaries.
About the early missionaries, their entry was facilitated thorough law(Read Charter Act of 1813) and yes early missionaries were trouble makers, but, for the Indian society. Most tribal revolts has one common cause i.e proselytizing activities by missionaries.Of course they did a few good things as well, but mostly their benovelence was transactional. It was at the cost of dignity of indigenous faiths.
3. The speaker isn't asking for any kind of humility. Infact his disscussion on hinduism has been consciously ignorant( E.g the doctrinne of karma) . The bottomline of his message was to project hinduism as a primitive religion that requires gracious saving by christianity.
Those who are watching this thinking this is whole truth, just know that this man is just a missionary spreading his agenda. history and truth is far different from this.
What is the truth then?
@@fobos9289 that Christianity after islam is the worth thing to have happened to bharat
@@arnavpandey3779 I suppose you mean “worst”. And no, I don’t agree with you and you fail to provide any argument or “truth”.
Your opinion is not fact my friend. God bless you!
@@fobos9289 lmfao may krishna save you from the false teachings of the bible. Plus you arent even from bharat what tf do you know?
@@arnavpandey3779 it seems we don’t know what you know either. Many words but no actual content. Just a contrarian looking for attention… God bless you!
12:13 Did this guy say India's national language Hindi? Shows how knowledgeable he is. LOL
He said India's national language which is correct as well as English.
@@omnamahshivaaay no you dum fuc you can't have multiple national language and nobody pointed out when he says or Urdu 😂😂😷
@@omnamahshivaaay India has no national language, there is only official language.
national language is hindi its truth !! i am indian we all know hindi !!
yes but hindi and english is official language (gov purpose)
@@Aceaditya02 There is no national language in India. Hindi is spoken by 43% of Indian population. Every regional language is as implrtant as Hindi in India. Hindi can be obviously a link language. Hindi and English are official languages as per official language act, 1963.
Great interview and I love that Dr. Peterson is doing this. Unfortunately, his knowledge of hinduism and the context of vedas is fairly inaccurate. He's presenting opinions and not facts.
Thank you. I was given The Book That Made Your World and found it to be one of the best, most enlightening and uplifting books I have ever read. It is a treasured addition to my small collection of favourite books.
This man who was invited in Jordan Peterson 's podcast in this episode is spreading fake propaganda about Hinduism and Hindu kings . In Travancore , it wasn't the case that women of so called lower caste were not allowed to cover their tops , the real case was that Travancore lies in South India which is a tropical area and climate is very hot and humid , so due to heat women of not just lower caste but almost all caste used to keep their tops without clothes or with minimal clothes even men used to keep tops open with minimal clothing like gamcha , etc and this so called breast tax is actually a myth . These pastors and missionaries are generally funded by Western people and catholic Church to convert the people and destroy the eternal Sanatan Dharma or what is called as Hindu religion in current times . It is a fact that many christian missionaries use unfair tactics , offering money and cheating for converting poor and tribal people in India . One more thing that this pastor says wrong about India that from 1000AD to 1192 AD we Hindus could not defeat muslims , there were many great Hindu kings and queens who defeated muslim before, between , after this period like Rani Tara Bai , Raja Suheldev , etc . These muslims never had full control over India basically these rulers were like weak feudal kings who could maintain their direct rule over a limited area only and by the end of 17th century , this so called Mughal Empire of muslims was so exhausted and defeated by Hindu kings and warriors that they became very weak and a point came in mid 18th century that Hindu Empire Maratha Empire ruled over more than half of India taxed the Mughals . Not just this there were many Hindu kings and Empire which were powerful and defeated these Muslim rulers like Ahoms , Kings and Warriors of Kalinga , Vijaynagar Empire , Rajputs ,etc .
I think it depends on what scholar of history you’re reading. Can you cite the book you’re grabbing this information from? And even then, there will be another book with another perspective by another scholar.
In our culture (Sanatan Dharma a.k.a Hinduism) some great being once said "First they will ignore you, then they will make fun of you, then they will fight you and finally they will surrender to the truth". You guys are misrepresenting Hindus just by quoting some missionary texts, ignorance is bliss but not in Every case. I'm just saying the "Truth always Triumphs" even if it is the exception and not the norm. So it doesn't matter how much in the west people make fun of Hindus and demonize them with half baked truths of caste, The Truth Triumphs that's what my culture taught me. So some misguided missionaries can't defeat the "Dharma".
Truth is god. 🙏
That's not a quote from your culture.
Nicholas Klein, a trade union activist, said something similar in a 1918 speech, saying, “First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you,” according to a transcript from the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America convention.
@@al-kimiya6962 that is typical of dharmic followers. First they borrow from others, then they rename those and then they claim it was thier ancient traditions and finally they accuse others from whom they have borrowed as stealing thier wisdom.
Twenty three minutes in and Mr. Mangalwadi has presented a hilariously distorted picture of Hinduism via texts (the Vedas) that apparently he hasn't read because they were never written down because there was no "script," I believe he said, I'm sitting here wondering if I'm actually hearing what I'm hearing, or if he understands what Sanskrit is? He dismisses the Vedas as basically incantations of magical rites that have nothing to do with knowing truth...has he never heard of Vedanta? Apparently not. Then he dismisses Islam, again on the basis of not being able to find a translation in his native tongue. So that's out.
Then he starts to talk about the Bible representing it as an antisemitic text (what the actual f___ dude), rambles on into a discussion of Wittgenstein who, again, he doesn't seem to understand and seems to be confusing with a mangled version of Derrida... Of course Peterson is sitting there eating this up because he hasn't read the Koran or the Hindu holy books and his peculiar (mis)understanding of postmodernism was gained second-hand.
I faded out and then you have Peterson insisting that the basis of individual human rights that is our legacy from the Enlightenment came from the Bible, again it's like The Age of Reason was a reaction to church authority in the name of science and rationality, hence the name. If Peterson wants to read an actual Enlightenment philosopher and Founding Father who considered the Bible idiotic and dangerous he would need seek no further than Thomas Paine. This video is a complete and utter waste of time except insofar as it leads people to seek the original sources themselves.
I think India is still a relatively poor nation because of Nationalistic pride. the Hindus and their Muslims rulers did very little to improve the lives of the common people, If they would adopt the positive attitude of nation who recognized that they have been an invaded (Not conquered) nation as Japan, and still can adapt their character to a new culture mixed with the indigenous features maybe by now they would be a world power, as as long as they live in denial their neighbors (like South Korea) will surpass them
This interview, and Mr Mangalwadi's book, changed my life for the better.
How was that??
He is lying here Phillz.
You are a bot
@@liammcleod315 about everything
@@ankiiths3274could you point out the lies?
A fascinating discussion of biblical ideas and values beyond the usual confines of a western cultural context. The comments of some less than enthusiastic listeners were also fascinating and telling. Given the depth and breadth of the discussion, Prof. Mangalwadi's comments about Jewish influence in Hollywood keeping Harvard in check when it comes to the Holocaust (1:29:10), were jarring and disconcerting. Not surprisingly, Prof. Peterson moved the conversation along briskly at that point.
Jewish communities as well as the state of Israel have various voluntary and elected organizations with a mandate to ensure that the Holocaust and its lessons are not forgotten. This is done in a public manner, without the need to resort to Hollywood "power" to influence the public.
If film producers in Hollywood or elsewhere take on the difficult task of telling stories of human malevolence that need to be told, more power to them!
I think the message Mr. Mangalwary wanted to convey , that there is a well funded and powerful organization keeping an eye on the Holocaust and its lessons of how evil can overtake us "humans" as a species. However when its culturally perpetrated ( specially in the most vulnerable: we think its the norm.
This proves that just because you have a pH.D and have written few books, doesn't preclude you from having prejudices and biases.
Ye , ye hui koi baat . jai Shri Raam
Bullshit
Is the reason for your statement because your narrative, which has prevailed under post-modernism, is being challenged?
Was there NO Bible translations before 1500 ? (Yes, there were.) Even so, what was the actual literacy rate in Europe before 1500 ?? (Estimated at 30 percent / urban, and at 5 percent / overall)
Not for the common people, I think. Luther benefited from Erasmus' translation into Latin (the Vulgate), but that was only accessible for clergy and scholars.
There were a lots of people who could use Greek fluently in the Greek speaking regions and vulgar Latin was also commonly used by the Hispanics and Italics. So for these speakers translations were not really needed. But indeed there were translations into Copt for the Egyptians and Syriac for the Syrians until the 11th centuries.
@@wurdfanheit Actually the Vulgate was Saint Jerome's fourth century translation of the Bible into Latin. After the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453 and the emigration of many Greek-speaking scholars to the West, often accompanied by old manuscripts, the deficiencies of that translation became apparent, which led to an increased interest in translating afresh: hence eg Erasmus' new translation of the New Testament into Latin and Luther's of the entire Bible into German.
CS Lewis " A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse…. "
I would lean on the side of something worse!
Also: "if you don't believe in universal truths, and in universally binding moral imperatives". . . (1:28:14)
This person is a true victim of Colonial Discourse. The distorted narratives of late medieval Christian missionaries have been 'internalized' by this person as 'true'; demonizing the Hindu way of life. A more honest understanding of Hindu way of life would 'reveal' a better comparative account of the two religions. His knowledge of Indian history, to make an understatement, is very poor indeed.
and Prof Peerson is poorer than his clown in his knowledge about Bharat
@@eternalthoughts-wu5lo he shall not engage in things he doesn't have a clue on.
It didn't shape anything in India
It did to some extent. Also India isn't just your North India btw.
@@omnipotent3309 I am from North East and I disagree with both of you.
@@rorschach4391 cuse your brainwashed by church lol .
@@rorschach4391 I am from south and no it didn't
@@rorschach4391 I agree that Bible has had an influence on India. Some good a some pretty bad as well. But if I am asked what shaped India, then I would say Hindu consciousness and Indian national movement has shaped India.
the parable of blind men and elephant concludes that multiple perspective are right to know truth(s) and not that it can't be known and actually explain the 7-fold multifacedness of truth(s) in the world. please read about 'Anekantvad' on wikipedia itself(unauthentic but atleast intorductory)
He's critiquing the parable. Someone was observing the blind men and what the elphant actually looked like,, which means someone was not blind. That is his point.
If nothing is false then nothing is true.
Starting around 49:15....dang. The man starts preaching. AMEN. "You won't allow me to enter your temple? Jesus is making me a priest of the most high God." Wow
As person who is aware of current political scenario in india, i assure some big backlashes here!
Would you be able to elaborate for those of us who are curious? Thanks!
@@UltimateOstrichRider Current Government is Under Bharatiya Janata Party which always believes in One religion so political leaders.
After 2014 BJP came to rule, they have been spreading hatred among the religions.
*Some narrow minded Indians taking offence at the picture in his thumbnail about the Bible shaping India.
@@UltimateOstrichRider Well lot of haters of the current government spewing nonsense here. But I will try to explain why Indians and especially Hindus are not happy with this talk. The guest has a very simplistic view of Indian history often espoused by the colonial british rule and evangelical christians. Caricaturing entire Hindu society into caste, sati and untouchability and claiming that British had truly "civilized" India is a pretty simplistic view of Indian society. I am not even a student of history and I can already point of so many mistakes in his narrative. Coming to the point of current mood of the country, well BJP, a Hindu nationalist party is currently in power since 2014. Before that, the prevailing narrative in India was shaped to some extent by the colonial historiography and mostly by the Marxist historiography which maintained their stranglehold over the academia. Since Marxist everywhere in the world are critical of the prevalent culture of that region, in India, it was in the interest of the left to be hostile towards Hinduism. In the west it's usually a tussle between Christian right and the left. In India it's Hindu right versus islamo-christian-left. Well I am also putting it quite simplistically. But the thing is, prevalent narratives about Indian history are changing rapidly after the rise of social media. Pro-Hindu voices are finding platforms and there is a general rise in the Hindutva consciousness of the society. And that also gets reflected on social media as well.
Yeah this video will blow up expect thousands of Indians to raid the comment section
There was neither non-existence nor existence then.
There was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond.
What stirred?
Where?
In whose protection?
Was there water, bottlemlessly deep?
There was neither death nor immortality then.
There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day.
That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse.
Other than that there was nothing beyond.
Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning,
with no distinguishing sign, all this was water.
The life force that was covered with emptiness,
that One arose through the power of heat.
Desire came upon that One in the beginning,
that was the first seed of mind.
Poets seeking in their heart with wisdom
found the bond of existence and non-existence.
Their cord was extended across.
Was there below?
Was there above?
There were seed-placers, there were powers.
There was impulse beneath, there was giving forth above.
Who really knows?
Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced?
Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?
Whence this creation has arisen
- perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not -
the One who looks down on it,
in the highest heaven, only He knows
or perhaps even He does not know.
Rig Veda (2000BCE)
I spent time with Dr. Vishal in MN at the school I attended. Wonderful, approachable man and family... his wife Ruth is lovely. He gave me several teachings of his, and I sat under his teaching as well. He deeply impacted me and he is a genuine Mensch