How Bad Will This Warhammer 40k Collector's Edition Deck Curl? | Magic: The Gathering Unboxing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
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You are having way too much fun with the editing
The credit was great, but i sure couldn't find any magic products to straight up buy. The magic stuff was just lotto streams and such. And I still had to pay $5+ tax and shipping on a $10 funko even though I still have $5 credit left.
I would assume wizards could put a clear, false foil layer on the backside of the card to counteract the curl, but this would probably cost them an extra penny per card
If everyone could get it, it wouldn't be collectable
What's an encyclopedia? Is that some type of powerful artifact?
40k seems like a lot for a Commander deck
Don't give wotc any ideas.
Still cheaper than the game they’re based off of. *rimshot*
In KRW, that's only like $30
Ba dum tss
😃😃😃😏😏😏
An unscripted, off-the-cuff video always has a sense of genuineness. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of them on occasion if the content being discussed warrants an organic discussion.
Necrons are living metal, these curls will just breathe back out and straighten up if you get them close to a Resurrection Orb.
The flavor of this comment made my day lol
bro my orb is curled
@@atstrategist Gotta buy two decks and stick your two orbs together to make the full circle.
Made me lol irl 🤣🤣🤣
@@atstrategist If it wasn’t, it wouldn’t be an orb.
Professor, I’m not into Warhammer either, but I watched this entire video because I thoroughly enjoyed your rambling thoughts about curling, product development, and WOTC so much. Unscripted, it felt like a casual conversation with you and that felt really nice. So I just wanted to give you this positive feedback! Thanks, Prof!
I second this. More casual conversation like this feels better then overly scripted dialogue.
I was cooking while listening to this video and I wholeheartedly agree. This was amazing it felt like I’m cooking, the Professor is at my kitchen table and we’re deep into a discussion on magic cards. Listening to the prof go off deeper into a topic and even a little backstage stuff was great and natural!
I for one really enjoy these off the cuff ramblings of the Professor. Thank you for standing against the grain and speaking your mind. We are lucky to have you in this community, even if WOTC seems to ignore you, I’m sure they still feel the heat.
It's not rambling though.
It's pretty sad to find out Wizards has iced out one of the biggest MtG content creators for raising valid concerns :/
Remember the Premium Deck series? They used to sell entire foil decks for a fraction of the cost of this. The MSRP was 34.99 and you could find them at Walmarts.
The burn one and the sliver one absolutely slapped back in the day
Prof, I just gotta say I love your scriptless videos. It really does show how much love you have for this game.
Yeah, without an immediate new talking point to read he just expands on things as he goes and it's so engaging
I really appreciate the more sit down conversation feel to this video. I always appreciate insight into the prof's thoughts without a strict script haha
I really dig the extra down to earth feel of the prompter-less approach. You’re honestly highly articulate without it. Had you not said there was no script, I probably wouldn’t have noticed. 🎉
I really wish as a full colab they had a mini of the commander come with the collectors set!
I really wish something like this, if they're gonna call them collectors edition, do more than just ooh it's all foiled in a technique we used 15 years ago we will pretend is new
The Szarekh mini is $160 alone - Abaddon and the swarmlord are $60 each, only Greyfax is somewhat reasonable at $35. They probably didn't want to go through the hassle of dealing with the legality of the minis in 40k itself.
Games workshop is the British version of wotc so let that sink in to why they didn't lol.
Honestly tempted get a Trazyn mini for my deck and paint him. But idk how many people are gonna be down with me whipping out a warhammer mini in a commander game.
@@underscore_5450 that would actually be cool lol.
Seeing how hard these curl out of the box feels especially bad after opening some unfinity and seeing some of the flattest foils I've seen in years in there
Yeah, the variety of foiling technics is cool, but some of them I feel like lead to a lot worse curling than others. And/or the cardstock thickness that Prof mentioned could just be it, but I feel like in recent sets some of the more unique foiling (primarily of the booster fun style cards) have actually had less curling than standard regular foils. Maybe it's because of more strategic and sometimes minimalistic foiling, but for example both my regular and etched foils from the mystical archive in Strixhaven haven't curled basically at all even now.
@@Red-Tower I thought etched foils shouldn't really curl at all
I'm happy someone realised too that unfinity dont curl!
@@alexramos7708 I've seen it, but only very light flex
One of the gimmicks of the Unfinity set was making foils that wont pringle, what a fun twist! 😍
Wow. The tokens not being double-sided foil irks me WAY more than it probably should XD.
That editing was excellent and surreal. Loving it. More professorial memes please.
protip: if you don't want your cards to curl, take away their tiny brooms!
what do u mean?
@@skullgraff6349 curling, the sport
@@skullgraff6349 hahaha it's a curling(that old people's sport) joke.
Woof. :D Terrible joke. Made me smile.
And dumbbells
This is the most unhinged and craziest we've seen you at Prof.
I love it.
He's talking about the wh40k decks not unhinged though! :p
The editing in the ad read is hilarious
There is actually a decent solution to curling, you could layer the card [back ink|plastic|cardboard|plastic|front ink] and just make the back face not have any special appearance. That way, the tension will be the same on both sides and it will maintain relative flatness, though it'll be slightly stiffer than a normal card. There's also more complicated solutions like impregnating and sealing the cardboard so that it's volume won't change as much with temperature and humidity, but my first solution is probably the cheapest and easiest to implement in a normal printing process.
you do what to the cardboard???
@@mortismain6719 ask your parents
Why would you think that WotC would be logical like that?
@@jonathanrfisher materials engineer problem
Or they could use credible and treated printing products instead of crap carta mundi garbage printing to suck more money from the fans cause their bed of money isnt big enough.
I appreciate your honesty & value your opinion. If Wizards doesn't like what you say or the way you say it they can kick rocks. You are a pillar of the Magic community & you would think Wizards would want to work with you, but if they don't it's their loss!
It’s refreshing to see you speak on this. I know we love to pile on about WOTC and some is deserved and some is whiny people who need to chill.
But the foil problem is so bad. I live in a very dry place. They ALL curl. Nobody here really wants them. Unless it’s worth a lot to sell as a single, I’ve seen folks just dump them. We avoid them in decks.
WOTC knows and just chugs on. I get “money” but at this point we’ll pay for a better product - so oblige us. Stop the shenanigans
Thank you for reviewing this product and I enjoy the unscripted videos! There's something pleasant about listening to your stream of consciousness vs. a more produced video that has a script. That being said, I enjoy your content in general and appreciate all of it.
My experience of even the worst offenders when it comes to curling foils, is that if you sleeve them and put them into a snug deck box like a boulder, for example, they flatten out. That's been my experience with the 40k collectors decks as well.
Something I found interesting when getting into MTG was this exact thing, especially coming from Yu-Gi-Oh. The warping in Yu-Gi-Oh is almost non-existent and it was very surprising when I asked the shop owner why a magic card was warped so much and they replied "That's just magic cards in general." Perhaps WOTC could take some notes from other card companies to improve these cards that are supposed to have so much prestige.
They could, and should, but they never learn
I think a collaboration with a 40k painting channel where they teach you how to paint would be a really neat idea. Not knowing how to paint is a really common concern for new players, and as someone who also thought they couldn't paint (I nearly flunked high school art), it's much more psychological than practical, and learning a skill so far out of my comfort zone wound up being a really fun experience.
I tried painting and i sucked at it. Id rather have an unpainted army then walk in with the garbage i had. Nope. Couldnt even get tabletop standard. I paid too much money to fucking bomb that hard lol.
@@HammerandPipe Contrast paints and speed paints are making it easier then ever to get tabletop standard
@J N not true. Ive spent months. Some folk simply suck at things and thats ok.
@@joeye1575 so im told. Never really messed with it. But more folk are convincing me i might need to try
Prof, you’re no putz for speaking your mind about the game. You’re a tremendous asset to the magic community and your outspoken nature is an important reminder for what wizards/hasbro *could* be capable of giving its fans.
Your authenticity really shines through in the scriptless videos, and they’re always appreciated.
im just happy to see them reprinting the bauble in so many sets now!
That sponsor segment was amazing, loved every second of it ❤️
Agreed.
Puddletown is awesome! I'm not even *THE* number 1 MTG TH-camr, and they randomly reached out to me once because - and I am not joking - a friend of a friend was in their store and mentioned that someone they knew was looking for a specific product. They're a rad store, super nice, and they've even made what seems like a really welcoming place for younger kids to come and play too. Highly recommend for anyone in the area!
As a newer player to magic this makes me feel better. I was going through some of my cards and noticed that some of them where bent/curled and I thought I was a dumbass and didn't know how to store my cards. Turns out its just Wizard and their foiling process.
21:49 "Wizards of the Coast is still gonna Wizards of the Coast it up."
Professor, you are a gem.
Aw, shucks!
To say one good thing about this whole situation, the Necron deck seems to take really well to foiling, art-wise - its dim blacks and metals combined with neon green glows and blinding whites is prime real estate for really striking and distinctive foiling, letting those existing highlights shimmer and glow without having all the details get lost in holographic rainbow.
Now that's a good point. I got high precision tools for weight and thickness of cards, especially useful for checking old cards where there are lots of fakes. But surely it could be used to measure modern foil cards and create a list of measures of foils from the different eras (I got foils from Urza's to the current sets, so a nice sample size).
As someone who's worked in Paper & Film Converting I must say, that was an excellent simplified explanation of curling!
Curling was the #1 Quality Issue we fought when adhering Film to Paper.
Damn, they curl so well that they'd win gold in the Winter Olympics.
Proff I've been watching you for the last 2 or 3 years now, and let me tell you, I like it when you talk without a script. I feel like you talk from your heart and more genuine.
LOTR commander decks when??? haha
I didn't play magic for at least a decade, I bought the commander deck & i'm happy. It's pretty. I can't wait to play it for fun.
Also discovered your channel via Team APS and I love your energy & positivity.
Cheers from France
Same, it's nice to pick up an old hobby again 🥳😁
Tinkering and comboing will be dope🤩
The solution to curled foils is to make the back of the card foil as well. This way the metal sticker pulls in opposite directions equally.
Prof, thank you for your sincerity and humility. You are a credit to the community.
You aren’t wrong about moisture and curl. All card stock including the THICC commander proxy cards come from large rolls of paper during the printing process. Some curl would be there unless it’s accounted for in the printing process.
Of course they will
Dude, don't spoil the video
curving of foils typically happens along the long side instead of the short side as seen here. Perhaps the curling we're seeing here is actually due to the rollers the paper was stored on. If the paper isn't treated as it's unrolled, laminated, and printed it may be prone to curling along the direction the paper was rolled in.
of course they will 🤷♂️
and btw the editing is amazing in this video, got many laughs out of me
Glad you enjoyed
One thing about humidity controlled: to be fair that doesn't matter, the only thing which would prevent any curling if you have by any chance the same humidy % as where the card was printed together with the polymer which makes it all shiny. 😅 So if they combine the foiling material with the cardboard at 60% humidity, you'll need that if it is 40 then you need 40%. This basically defines the default humidity which the cards decide to curl towards the front or back of the card. 😅 Theoretically. If you'd laminate the cards air tight they would never curl 😂
I couldn’t imagine this community without the professor. Always love the videos
Love this style of ramble video. Rudy would be proud!
The Digimon tcg is young but I love the card quality and the full art not being limited to high rarity cards is amazing.
Can I just say the motion movement on your camera work when you act worked up is absolutely top notch!, honestly the only other place I see this technique is music videos and movies were the budget is through the roof so that fact you do it on a TH-cam budget is nothing but a credit to you and your editor, as always big love!💚
Ola Englund: Will it jug?
The Professor: Will it curl?
I wonder if they took a note out of the woodworkers playbook and foiled both sides if it would solve this.
If you add a thin wood veneer to a thin board on one side it's gonna warp like crazy, but if you do both sides the difference in how the moisture affects it is balanced and pulls it evenly
I wonder if the reason why the tokens were not foiled on both sides was to hide the fact that doing this would solve the curling problem.
@@laurencebrown3822 the professor did say there have been dual sided foils in the past, I'm curious how those held up curling wise
"We can only operate off the information we are given." That's a good way to put it. Consistent communication is key for a healthy relationship with this game, and it's like WOTC doesn't support that enough. Side note, I had to reach out to them to find out MTG 30 Command Zone will only be available for those with VIP passes only, and that is posted NOWHERE on their sites. Would be good to know those things, #communication.
This is a case where WotC consistent silence on curling indicates they know what the problems are but cant/wont fix is. My guess is that there is no cost effective way of eliminated curling altogether, without having the back of the card easily identifiable as a foil. They are also probably fully aware that certain printers and certain cardstocks are far worse than others, but are unwilling to cut back product releases due to logistics problems.
I play Wixoss and they recently released a full foil deck, 52 cards, competitive and ready to play! Most stores are selling them for $20 each. less curled than any magic card I've owned recently. Also, does the name "Shota Yasooka" ring a bell for the MTG community? They're the lead game designer for Wixoss!
Love Wixoss. It’s jumped to my 2nd favorite TCG at this point behind MTG. Great game! And that Deus Ex Machina deck is insane for a precon! It’s freaking competitive out of the box!
The tone of this videos felt like Bob Ross expressing his disappointment in the decline in quality of his favorite paints and brushes. No outright anger, no loss of love. Just an explanation of what's going on and why it's disappointing in a soft and comforting voice.
Well at least you don’t have to worry about marked cards if all of them are curled 😂
I honestly wonder if that's a legitimate point if it came up in a tournament. Does it matter if cards are curled if ALL of the cards are curled?
the only reason why I keep coming back is you, professor! I stopped playing a long time ago (luckily) but still enjoy your content!
Your editor certainly went a bit wild on this video
Nice discussion and talk about foils and wotc. Thank you very much Prof.
I absolutely ❤ my collectors necron deck. I tried stuffing them tight into a Gamegenic deck box, I’m hoping they will straighten out a bit over time. It’s a compromise that’s worth it IMO as the foiling is absolutely gorgeous. The color contrast between the gray/black and green is stunning. I hope they can figure out a way for the cards in the future to both look good and be of a high quality.
It's not just the humidity, there's something to the production process in the US factory. Usually in the EU we get cards printed in Belgium, but there was one notable product that Wizards decided to import from the US, and that's Guild Kits
The curling was extreme, holding two foil cards back to back you'd get about a 30 degree angle. I had not seen anything like it before and I haven't since - and I played magic on and off since Mirrodin.
Prof is such a champ. My favorite MTG channel by far. My inner goofball lives vicariously through him.
I like that you try to be reasoned in your thinking here, it's important to state when you don't actually know things for sure. Just wish they would tell us literally anything about these things.
This was a very relaxing video!
Now I'm hearing Doug Marcaida say "It will curl." in my head. But I really appreciate you explaining this and going through it. Explains a lot.
Great video prof. We love the style and you don't give yourself enough credit off script. ❤️
These 40k decks are fun. If you can get one and play with precons its worth it. love seeing new art on commander staples.
I love this raw version of the channel.
Remember when Wizards wrote an article saying they'd go in depth about the card quality issue and then never did?
Yes
Hearing you speak so candidly about these issues really speak to me... I have been unable to afford to stay current in the game, and as a community we suffer from the rising profit margin... Thank you for talking about your thoughts professor, we appreciate you
They should think about foiling card backs. I have no problem with any of my double sided foil tokens
Interesting thought
Tokens use a different cardstock. I wonder if double side foiling would result in the same with the cardstock they use for regular MTG cards. Also, this would add another layer to the cards, making foils even more thick. And, I could see WotC not making double side foiling even if it solved the curling issue only based on the fact that they would not want to increase their production cost by even 1%. Or if they did, they would increase the price of their products overboard by X% because hey production cost increase so we must charge the customers and not take a hit on our 42% profit margin. Yeah, MTG profit margin is between 40-50%. And even with such high profit margin they increased the cost of products by an average 11% overboard recently. Reason? Higher production cost due to inflation. When I think that they dd this when they do 40ish percent profit margin it makes me mad.
Problem is that if they foil the back they'll no longer be tournament legal because the backs would look different.
Cool trick for the collector deck: If you swap out the lands for non-foils, you can tell if your top card is land or not by breathing on it and watching the foil cards bend!
Its a shame that wizards doesn't communicate well. Thanks for always trying to present the information clearly. I appreciate the commentary for these kinds of videos.
Thank you Prof. for doing this video. More people need to hammer away at this issue. It’s shameful that WotC has not found a solution to this issue by now. As a “market leader” and offering “premium products,” this curling is unacceptable. I mean, is this a billion dollar company or not? They should start acting like it. They have the nerve to raise their prices across the board, but not the will to fix a KNOWN issue.
You can fix the curling by simply flatting the cards in like a big book for some time.
If they are super dry, you can try to give them a bit more humidity (very little) , by putting the card in a plastic container (that you can close) and put minimal water in it, with a paper towel, and the cards "carefully" on the paper tower, so it can over the course of some days absorb some of the humidity, then put the card back in the big book and let it flatten out.
Once flatten, put the cards in inner sleeves, so they keep in a better environment.
Doing that usually works out fine to make foils that curled flat for once, without damaging the cards by bending it backwards with force (as the foil, if it cracks by damage, that damage wont go away, so bending cards with force quickly is not helpful).
Stop this cope shit, ofc you can flatten it. it shouldn't have to be flattened in the first place AND this doesn't happen with every other card game on the planet.
Yes, you can read that carefully written essay the OP of this comment has demonstrated and take all the steps. All the extra care, all the extra work, all the proper things to do for Sunday morning card worship.
For $250.00 plus tax and shipping, why should you *HAVE* to do any of that to begin with?
Love the short off the cuff videos. Maybe you could do short 5-10 minute videos like this in the future. Little bite size prof videos for when we need a break from work but aren't on lunch break. Doesn't even have to contain you buying anything to review, maybe just things you have wanted to talk about.
My thoughts exactly, I try to avoid foil
1. Because they are more expensive
2. They are hit or miss with curling
Annd yeah with that said, the foils in that set do look pretty sweet
If they aren't curled they are fake foils.
i usually skip ad integrations but man this one as a riot, you hit me with some absurdist editing and im all yours. can't do the stream this Wednesday sadly, got to work, but good luck to everyone who stops in
The tokens not being foiled on both sides for such a premium price really shows the minimal effort they went to. It's sad because it could've been such an amazing product even at this price if the quality matched.
Professor, I think I speak for us all when i say, we adore your rambling.
as tappy said, it is adorable how much you love magic
You're way braver with your money than I am 🤣 thanks for being you, Prof
Mine was curled just like this but I put it in my deck box sleeved and packed pretty tight with some dehumidifier packets and it’s pretty much completely straight now
I prefer them to curl slightly the other way. Curling forward is the most unpleasant.
First time I've watched a sponsored ad in a long time. Yo immaculate editing, scriping, and message my man. Diggin' the content! 👊
Im watching this on the toilet
Me too!
@@jhook6865 we are poop pals
Me too!
@@Bearddis we are fecal friends
Hell yeah brother
Enjoyed the rambling and crazy editing in this video! The curling isn't cool, but nowhere near as bad as the first print run of Commander Legends. The foil-etched cards seem like their way of countering the criticism, but those often come out muddy or don't pop as much as regular foils.
I'd love to have more episodes/features like this. Simply just being spoken to without a theatrical level of inflection is equally as entertaining and informative.
Not as much a criticism on content as much as I'd like to declare that TCC always puts out great and informative content. Thanks!
I wonder if the reason the extra thick proxy commander got curled wasn't because of the foiling process on that card being enough to curl it, but the fact that it was packaged with a hundred other cards in a tight plastic wrapping and the force of all of them curling was great enough that it warped that card through force and it sitting in the packaging for long enough let the bend set in.
great vid prof and fair perspectives of what wiz is or isn't doing on their part for product communication.
The editing during the wattnot ad is beyond incredible! 😂😂
A long time ago, like late 2010, I bought "Fire & Lightning", one of three 60 card all foil deck Wizards put out back then. I stupidly never sleeved it up and mostly just kept it to the side in it's original included deck box, occasionally pulling it out for a few matches with a friend. I mostly played standard so it was just a side novelty to me. Not too long after I fell out of the game due to a combination of falling out of contact with the only friend I had that played at the time (who was also my ride to the closest LGS) and being laid off. The deck, along with the rest of my cards, just sat in a back room of my home for a long time. Fast forward to just a few months ago when me and another former player I've met since convince the rest of the D&D group to give Magic a shot and now we're all playing commander together. So finally I'm hauling out the old cards again and I once again find Fire & Lightning. 60 foil cards that had been sitting there, unsleeved, in the cardboard box they came with, in an old bedroom with no climate control, abandoned for over a decade. And they had roughly the same amount of curling as this brand new commander deck Prof just opened.
It's always nice seeing you talk with no script :D I don't know why you dislike it but, speaking as a viewer, it doesn't detract from the quality of the video
This was one of the few products I didn’t mind being more expensive (maybe not the markup due to stock issues) because they offered an identical product without the foiling at much lower price, no unique art or extra cards. By buying the standard version you get to sit down and have the exact same game experience which is the important part, you’re only paying extra for flashiness and a collector item. The game pieces are not behind a paywall and people like me who have spent hours painting tyranids.. Are happy to have a collector piece of two hobbies being combined.
Take an ultimate guard boulder, put some foil cards in there. Add a humidity pack for a cigar humidor in it. I noted for most editions the 62% humidity packs are fine. Commander legends needs higher ones though. Close the boulder and let it sit for a week or two. As the boulder shuts very tightly the cards absorb the humidity and they do straighten out. Then I double sleeve them and they remain straight.
Does it suck you have to buy this extra? Sure but it works. Mtg goldfish had a nice article about the topic as well that went almost myth busters level on it.
Just a little correction for why foils curve. It's not that one material expands and the other doesn't, all materials expand/contract with temperature. The two materials on the card expand and contract at different rates so to accommodate both material sizes, the card bends (because the inner edge has a smaller length). This is annoyijg on many cases (especially when it comes to infrastructure), but also useful. For example, in things like cheap toasters where a thermometer and circuit is too expensive/is overkill you can just use a bimetallic strip (a strip which is one metal on one side and another on the other). You pick metals which will cause a specific amount of bending at a specific temperature and since the direction of bending is consistent, you can have that bending being detected.
A possible, industrial solution to curling: The face of the card is coated. Change the formulation of the coating on the back to similar degrees of resistance. Dynamic opposition should then lessen curling.
I haven't had the privilege of seeing these in person yet, but I bet they look amazing
It's always been my policy to trade foils for non foils, straight up, my entire life.
I know what I lose in value, I gain by avoiding Pringles.
It also keeps things consistent imo, it costs more to foil out a whole deck after all. Plus it's easier to read non-foil cards, especially on camera.
All of the above. Yes. I'm also probably going to buy the Brothers War precons but try to trade the retro frames anyway for consistency with my other cards.
Universes Beyond: Pringles Commander Deck. Only comes in foil to stay on theme
You are so genuine in your remarks Prof, and it shines when you smile. Appreciate you tons!!
Glad you talked about putting cosmetics behind a paywall. WotC is clearly now relying more on the artificial value of their products to make more money. Look at Double Feature. Why packs of these costed way more than standard packs? Because WotC made the cards in it in an unique special treatment that could only be found in these packs. It didn't costed them more to produce Double Feature cards than regular MID and VOW cards, but they assumed that these Double Feature cards would have more value on the secondary market and that the cosmetic aspect would appeal to collectors... so they charged more for that. As I said, they are moneytising the collectability aspect and artificial value of the cards now. Look at 30th Edition. Why they are charging 1000$ for 4 booster packs that cost them the same to produce than 4 Dominaria United booster packs (would sell for like 20$). Because they have put images of cards that have really high artificial value on the secondary market, like Black Lotus on it? Because they intentionnally made the product really scarce so it becomes more collectable? Because financial avisor evaluated what the artificial value of proxy golden border non-legal tournament cards with images of Black Lotus on it can be worth on the secondary market based on previous itteration of Collector items? I hate that they are on the buisness of monetizing collectability aspect when like you said, it makes the products not purchasable for the majority of players. And I hate to think that it will get worse and worse in regards of what WotC is ready to do to monetize every aspect of their game in order to reach the next 50% revenue increase in the next 3 years that Hasbro has set.
I was thinking. If the plastic, non-moisture permeable "card" curls when foiled, then the common element (the mylar layer itself) must be the issue, and not cardstock expanding and contracting with humidity and temperature.
As far as I know, the mylar layer is laminated onto the cardstock off of a big, hot roller. Maybe what's actually happening is that the large sheet of cards is cooling flat (because of the size and weight) and the stresses of the lamination process are temporarily opposed. Then, as the card is exposed to normal heat and time, the mylar returns to it's natural shape.
I'm imagining it something like un-annealed steel in something getting forged, where the internal crystal structure isn't aligned with the shape of the object.
The metal still changes based on temperature changes. The physics based property that causes the curl is the layering of materials with 2 different rates of expansion and contraction (3 counting glue), just the basic formula is altered because one layer responds more to moisture and one more to temperature (and probably a dozen other factors)