They chose Bayley to kill Poussey because it deconstructs the black-and-white notion of good and bad people so it's not as cut and dry. It created a grey area. Bayley was one of the better guards and was liked by viewers, as was Poussey's character. Having two liked characters in a scene like this makes it harder on the viewers to choose a definite side which ultimately forces you to view both sides of the story and possibly see a connection to real life. That, and art imitates life.
It was so OITNB could demonstrate two important messages. -Being against police brutality doesn't make you anti-cop. -There are different types of bad cops, not all of which are bad people. Bayley is easily the kindest cop in Litchfield. He may deal in smuggling and whatnot, but he isn't necessarily a sick to the prisoners and he's even the first to rat out the other officers for forcing the prisoners to fight. However, he clearly is inexperienced and incompetent in dealing with situations. The prison riot in which Poussey dies is a situation he had no business being in, because he's not well-equipped enough to deal with it. He's a bad cop, but not a bad person.
We get the worst of both worlds. The most likable inmate being killed by the most likable guard. (Which yeah I realize is the idea story wise to give mixed emotions.) It's especially heartbreaking when all Bayley wants to do is let Poussey's friends know how sorry he is, but then realizing that going up to them would only make the situation worse.
@@chasef89 lol, for real! Somewhere around that fucked up Tucky and Donuts storyline the writers forgot Dixon is trash, and turned him into some kind of funny goofy teddy bear guy. The number of times I had to remind people how he raped and killed civilians for funsies...
nyariak.b lol I understand it’s a television show but some people IDK why only listen to what they want and if I can change the way any one person sees George’s death then I’ll be happy.. because it isss real and it is happening weather you agree or not.. we gotta face it, periodddd
I'm glad she did that. She knew they were literally one push away from killing the guard and kept her mouth shut about the incident and let them grieve.
@@awaywyou Wait, are you serious? I thought you were being sarcastic about how the writers tried to redeem him lmao. You really think being friends with Tucky makes up for being a war criminal?!
Some people want to blame Bayley for Poussey's death and some point the finger at Suzanne but ultimately the blame starts up top. The MCC. Had they fostered a system where guards can receive professional training when dealing with certain situations such as the one that the inexperienced Bayley was put in then none of this would have occurred. At least the older guards like Bennett, Maxwell, Bell, O'Neill, and Donalson treated the inmates humanely although they were strict.
its obvious they picked him because itll be conflicting to the viewer. it brings so much more dimension into it to see his grief and his guilt. if it wouldve been piscitella everyone would be thinking oh fuck him and be done with it.. also poussey because who doesnt love her.. anyway im bawling rn
I apologize for posted over a year later, but after rewatching the show, i’ve looked at it at a different perspective. What makes the manslaughter of Poussey by Bayley so powerful is because how complex the show is. Both Poussey and Bayley have no business being inside a prison environment. Poussey was doing hard time for trespassing on an abandoned building with possession of a small amount of marijuana, (that does NOT justify going to prison for). Bayley was young, inexperienced, and lacked any proper training to be a prison guard. MCU have scene both Bayley and Poussey as perfect candidates for their business models for prison. Poussey was a quick cash cow (more inmates in prison means more taxpayer money going to them)while Bayley was a way to save money for the private prisons. (An inexperienced guard means paying them less with no benefits). Originally, it was easier to paint Bayley as a scapegoat and paint Poussey as a martyr. Any show would take this easier route and come with an easy resolution to the story. But, what I love about OITNB is that it never takes the easy route in storytelling. It shows the complexity of the situation that concludes that one person cannot make changes to the system. Bayley was not the problem, but a catalyst to a bigger problem. Poussey (regardless of how heartbreaking her death is) was not going to bring long, sustainable changes. If anything, they were both very disposable to the prison industrial complex.
Whoa dude chill, the guy didn't mean to kill her. It was a total accident, he has to live with the fact he took another person's life and that's really fucking hard for people to do believe it or not.
me 2, he did not mean 2 kill her but i blame the MEDIA they started the riot it wasn't the fact that poussey died it was how i was HANDLED afterwards they did not even mention her NAME or say we are srry this happened i like bailey but he shhhould atleast b fired, and it is not his fault it is the otherf cops fault for placing ihm in that type of situation without the following tools to deal with it that type of situation covering it up jut pises me off becauses these women some of them didn't mean for things to g down the way it did but yet they r locked up..
Honestly, it's all piscatellas fault, he gave the order, he was also the reason the inmates were on the tables, if he wasn't so incompetent poussey would be alive and bayley wouldn't be depressed, piscatellas character was fcked up
Nope, it was Suzanne's fault. It's just that simple. She created the entire altercation to begin with, and she added her 220 pounds of weight to Poussey's mid-back when she attacked the guard, which is apparently where her lungs were located when she was somehow suffocated in like 45 seconds.
The guard driving him home hit several lines well... Talking nonchalantly about the violent crimes he willingly committed. Then him switching to, "we're young." He's not, but Bayley and Poussey were. This is a moment where Bayley is grieving- because grieving isn't just about death. He just threw away his moral character completely. And he's struggling. And the guard tries to justify that these things happen, and they shouldn't grow old with that regret. Very powerful scene.
Bayley shows how dangerous incompetence can be, even with the best of intentions. But yeah I think the other guard sees how awful Bayley feels about killing someone accidentally and is trying to make himself feel better about murder committed intentionally.
Trippy Asian || *EXACTLY* *I've never watched OITNB but i only started watching short scenes and i instantly fell in love with Poussey and then i came across her death so quickly.. it came just like that* 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Poussey's death was one of the most bullshit tv deaths I've ever seen but I will say props to the writers for having the balls to kill off a well respected character.
Just watched this episode today and while I had it spoiled for me that she was gunna die in a prison riot, I had no idea how it was going to actually go down. I feel very depressed, but also actually impressed at the show for killing her off. I know she was a fan favorite and I think having such a well-liked character die makes the message more powerful.
Apparently the writers of the show have no idea where the human respiratory system is located, but it's not like this series ever had a strong relationship with reality.
SarahElizabeth580 It sucks but people are right, having Bayley be the accidental murderer creates a grey area sense of justice where the viewers (and Caputo) become emotionally conflicted between an innocent inmate and an innocent guard. In the end, they both were victims. But as is the corporate world, one of them had to take the fall for MCC's mistake, and Caputo decided it would be better to blame it on someone who's already dead than a living, good guy guard who's life could have been even more ruined should he have been blamed. Neither of them deserved the incedent, death, trauma or blame. It's all Piscatella's fault and MCC should have told the truth. Unfortunately, they'd rather worsen the stigma surrounding inmates or blame an individual guard than take the blame themselves. That's the way this messed up world works.
He didn't do anything. He had his knee on Poussey and Susan attacked him so he couldn't pay attention to what he was doing. He's a sweet guy. He would never do that on purpose. Poussey was a very amazing character who did in fact not deserve to die. But it isn't his fault. (Edit: This did *not* age well)
i know but the way they HANDLED THE SITUATION that was not right bailey was not the only victim and they could at least say her name, it is just the way the media handled it , he should still b held accountible 4 it affter all the women were held accountable otherwise they would not b in prison but i do feel bad for bot of them...
Derrik Mullin He was not prepared to have that job. But, which one of the guards actually was...? Oh well. Poussey was my fav character (one of them) this pisses me off
and then you can't really put the blame on Suzanne she had been doing pretty good until Humphrey forced her to fight that one girl so i feel like he triggered her freak out at that moment if the commanding officer would have let P calm her down it would have been fine. This is such a complex situation.
None of this would have happened if they were not stupidly and lazily cutting corners by hiring untrained guards that are more abusive and corrupted that didn't know how to do their job right and it's their fault someone like Bayley was brought into a situation he had no business or experience in handling. Now Poussey is gone and she's never coming back. Someone needs to be held accountable for her death.
@@Greywind920 First of all bitch who tf do you think you are calling people with mental illness retards? Did suzanne put her full body weight on someone who's not even 100 pounds
@@laurenmarshall5885 why do yall say that about real life situations this might be fiction but it happens so often so often we witnessed it in real life
Exactly. If someone drives drunk, crashes and kills an innocent person, we bring them up on manslaughter charges. Just because you didn't mean it, and say you're sorry, doesn't mean there shouldn't be accountability. Especially when it's usually guards, cops, etc, who get away with this sort of stuff, but poor and marginalized people never do.
I love Bayley he's so funny and you tell he's a genuinely good person. He didn't mean to kill her sure he was an idiot but if a different co did it they wouldn't feel bad at all
I felt sorry for bailey. He was one of the few new guards who was a legit good person, naive and horribly gullible yes, but a good men no less. He was truly traumatised by what he did, and its sad that a man as young as him, barely an adult has to live with this mistake.
What makes his (accidental) involvement in Poussey's death hit home harder is that as a book titled ''The Wise Man's Fear'' (seen in S4E08) says/foreshadowed, one of the three things that wise men feared was ''anger in a gentle man'', and when you think about it, Bayley was the 'gentle man' whose anger accidentally caused Poussey's death 😭
220 pounds of nutjob anger caused her death, not Bayley. I love the hoops people will jump through to resolve black people of any blame for anything they do.
It was crazy eyes fault though, he put so much pressure on her back because he was fighting her off, he shouldn't have grabbed poussey at all though, she got killed for "let me talk to her, she don't know what she doing". Damn man. Crazy for a show to get you like this.
No the reason she was grabbed is because piscatella ordered every body to get grabbed off the benches and crazy eyes did do what you said she did but because she was trying to protect her she was distracting the guard so in state of mind it is kind of both crazy eyes and Baylis fault
in retrospect id say humps is to blame - during the interogations, humps was forcing inmates to fight - which, poor suzanne wanted no involvement with - however kukudio volunteered to fight suzanne, the poor girl had people screaming at her, pushing her towards kukudio until she snapped (understandably, suzanne has a history with breaking down under pressure, she's an extremely delicate person and everyone in that room was fully aware of that), this driving her to repeatedly beat on kukudio, screaming 'i told you to stop' over and over as she did until she was unconscious. later in the cafeteria, when piscatella (whom was also quite blameable) called for backup and they arrived, suzanne thought she was in trouble and fell into a meltdown, yelling 'i did a bad thing' over and over again. poussey got down from the table to try and help her, which resulted in - yeah. she was driven by others into a meltdown, there was no way she could have helped it.
I completely disagree with all of you. Crazy Eyes couldn’t help that she was having a nervous breakdown. Bailey wasn’t properly trained by the agency and he is easily influenced by his peer and kind of a yes man. He seems like the type of guy who will do anything people tell him to even if he feels that what he is doing is wrong. It was Officer Piscatella’s fault. They were peacefully protesting and instead of listening to what they had to say, he sent in more guards and just escalated the situation. If he just listened none of this would have happened.
anyone else watching in 2020 and notice how this ties into george floyd? like bayley didn’t kill her intentionally but poussey passed the same way george floyd did. weird how it’s four years later too...
There's a theory the poussey's dad is gonna come to the prison and sue. Bayley should've been paying attention to what he was doing when the accident happened, I'd love to see what happens to piscatella😏
goofy child. I don’t think he could’ve paid attention when crazy eyes was attacking him and I wish poussey never died it sucks I loved her she was my favorite one out of all of them well besides Daya but still
such conflicting feelings with this situation. there should be justice for poussey's death but at the same time bailey should be held accountable for what he did even though it was unintentional.
"I sat on chairs and they broke under me" not a great thing to say to the dude who accidentally killed someone via crushing them. Also not a good idea to reveal that apparently you are a fucking monster
I always liked Caputo, he was the tragic anti-hero of the whole series. He cared but he also was an asshole. He wanted justice done but was tor between his ethical coe and his jo description.
now I feel bad about bayley he was so sweet and nice he was just trying help and do what he was supposed to do...and he was crying so much made me wanna cry also...I felt like taystee did not have to take it out on him I mean yeah poussey was almost everybody's friend I love bayley as a actor tho and poussey
Hassan Junior Sallah I saw him as a child he didn’t deserve it though your mind can hurt you more than anything he was simply doing his job shit happens
I hated Méndez. He took advantage of girls who were desperate because of the withdrawal. One of them even comitted suicide. But at least the guard who was "in love" with Doggett showed some remorse.
GUYS IT'S CALLED PLOT TWIST OK. I mean yea I fucking cried ok but this grabbed everyone's attention cause its never the nice guy who accidentally kills someone nice too.
As someone who couldn't finish season four once they were spoiled on Poussey's death, but has watched clips and read about it, I'm surprised so many people blame Bayley, or Suzanne, or any number of people in the prison, because what it comes down to is the fact that the death was entirely preventable if the guards had gotten the proper training. If they had been given enough time for the guards to be trained, ideally, a guard's incompetence would be shown during that training, and they could either fix it and teach them the correct way of doing things, or fire them during that trial period. I feel like season 3 was a commentary about the pitfalls of capitalism. The prison was fucked up in a lot of ways for the first two seasons, but it got so much worse when MCC bought it - the company's main goal was to make money, which made everything worse, from the food to the guards to the daily standard of living for the inmates. It allowed for guards to do terrible things and not be held accountable (forcing Blanca to stand on a table for days is a form of torture when she can't use the bathroom and urinates on herself). Ultimately, it is the people trying to cut corners to save money that are responsible, but because the people at the corporate office weren't physically there when Poussey was killed, no one really pays attention to the fact that it was their decisions that fostered an environment that allowed for the incident to happen.
This is why it's so important for police to get proper training. In a high stress situation, it's already hard enough to spring into action and know everything you're suppose to do. Bayley wasn't a monster, he was thrown into a bad situation. He was responsible for what happened, but none of it was out of malicious intent.
If I went and said sorry to janea or tastey I don't know about cindy but if he talked to janea or tastey he would get himself killed. If it was together boy he is going to see the light fast😞
Aye yo no one’s gonna talk about dudes stories in the car???? Dude did what to the farm child?!?!?! Strangled and taped WHO in the small village?!?!?!?
listen. my heart was broken for both pousey as well as Baley. Because he truly did not mean to do what he did and the humanity and sadness he showed after his actions stood out the most because he truly came into that job as a kid smh all the rest of them didn’t care. listening to the other guard compare her to a chair he was sitting in. smh
I don’t blame him at all for killing pousey. If we being honest it wasn’t him it was crazy eyes fault cause she kept attacking him causing him to pay less attention to the girl on the floor . If it wasn’t for her pousey wouldn’t have died
i can understand why some people believe that bayley was the wrong choice for this. in the real world, when cops do this to black people, it's often... very much not an accident. they'll suffocate another human to death, crack jokes about their victims' pleas for mercy, then give themselves a paid vacation afterwards. they don't mourn like bayley does. but from a storyline pov, i appreciate the gray area nuance of the situation. they are trying to show the scope of damage done by the american criminal justice system and illustrate the dangers of poor training in a profession like this.
When Poussey died and all the guards saw it I kinda hated the guards after the riot because I understand it was pretty traumatic especially to that one girl for being held hostage by refugee's but at the same time it was kinda shit on how they didn't really sympathize with the prisoners for losing a friend/best friend/lover and that really pissed me off. But that's just me holding grudges lol
People blaming crazy eyes?! The grown man had his damn knee on a tiny framed girl HIS DAMN KNEE SHOULDNT BE ANYWHERE ON HER PERIOD THERES BETTER WAYS TO RESTRAIN PEOPLE all the knee in the back or neck does is stop air flow POLICE/GUARDS/SECURITY should know better #justiceforgeorgefloyd
I can’t even understand why bayley was hired in the first place, there was no way he was good enough to be a CO, he’s just too nice and not headstrong enough
The redhead officers is the same one that thought he deserved an apology for what the inmates did to him, what when it was his turn he couldn’t let it go Also he knew the other disgusting officers was rapist pensatuky and did nothing
I know this is gonna anger a lot of people for me to say this, but it wasn’t Bayley’s fault for accidentally killing poussey. It was crazy eyes. Now bare with me. I mean, crazy eyes was going crazy and saying she did a bad thing for standing up on the table and poussey was trying to do was calm her down but she got held down. If crazy eyes didn’t hit the cop like she did, poussey wouldn’t die like that. So yes, the cop wouldn’t know what he did cause of the crowd being so loud and getting hit like that. So yes. I’m saying it’s crazy eye’s fault.
for starters - probably best you called her by her name, suzanne, rather than a rather derogatory nickname given to her by inmates who cant comprehend her mental illness - fully aware shes a fictional character, but she is a representative for mentally ill inmates and the mistreatment and abuse they endure in prison - in short, shes a person, not a mental case (i seem like id be fun at parties, i know) secondly, she wasnt 'going crazy' she was having a meltdown lmao third of all, she wasnt saying that she was doing a bad thing for standing on the tables/involving herself in the peaceful protest?? if you watched the entirety of 'the animals' (this might have taken place in the episode before, not too sure) you note that while piscatella was holding investigations regarding the dead guard, humphrey was forcing inmates to fight. suzanne made it vocally clear as day that she didnt want to participate in this, receiving responses such as being called a 'retarded ape' etc., however kukudio stood up and volunteered to fight her. everyone formed a circle around the two, pushing and shoving while suzanne pleaded 'stop!' 'i dont want to fight!' 'please dont push!' etc. etc., the pressure pushing down on her till she eventually snapped and tackled kukudio, beating down on her face as she screamed 'i told you to stop!' until kukudio was knocked unconscious. throughout the rest of the episode suzanne can be caught mumbling 'i did a bad thing' in a monotone voice, indicating that these events really messed her up. skip to the protest. suzanne was clearly doing fine until *piss*catella called for backup, their arrival bringing suzanne to thinking she was in trouble for hurting kukudio. this caused her meltdown, humps and piscatella caused her meltdown, there was nothing she could have done to prevent it from happening. each to their own, just giving my two cents lol i completely respect your opinion and youre certainly not alone where you stand, nobodys mad at you !!
Bayley was a wet behind the ears puppy with no proper training . If piscatella hadn't gone mad and started pulling people off tables it never would've happened,I hate him .
I like Bayley, but he should still be responsible for his actions. That was someone's daughter. gone. I hope she gets some kind of justice, I've started season 5 but haven't finished it.
god damn this subplot was interesting. you could definitely make the argument that it was inappropriate for the writers (i think all of whom were white?) to make baxter this sympathetic considering how purposeful and malicious police brutality usually is in the real world, but if you take the character for who he is, wow. the fact that it was an accident that happened during a chaotic situation, it's not like he was intentionally abusing his power against poussey. suzanne also unintentionally played a role in her death, which i don't think she was punished for either, but the reason she was there in the first place was because she was punished for unintentionally causing dylan's death, so baxter's privilege as a white male CO in this situation is still palpable. he definitely both benefits from and played a role in the abuse of power that killed her but that doesn't mean he was guilty of abusing power himself. he knows he got off too easy. it makes complete sense for poussey's dad and friends to not forgive him, not only because of his mistake, but also the privilege he has that not only allowed it to happen but also insulated him from consequences, but that doesn't mean he's objectively irredeemable. the fact that the CO driving him home began his consolation with the fact that he's accidentally broken chairs under him but went on to recount how he committed literal war crimes, and THEN said "you're a good guy....I'M a good guy"...blurring the line between an accident/mistake and intentional, malicious victimization. so vilifying.
They chose Bayley to kill Poussey because it deconstructs the black-and-white notion of good and bad people so it's not as cut and dry. It created a grey area. Bayley was one of the better guards and was liked by viewers, as was Poussey's character. Having two liked characters in a scene like this makes it harder on the viewers to choose a definite side which ultimately forces you to view both sides of the story and possibly see a connection to real life. That, and art imitates life.
Wow! I see exactly what you mean.... never thought of it that way
Its a moot point because the CO leader is a prick and gave the order.
Joi Alexis h
I think they shouldn't have killed Poussey... It was completely unnecessary. :( The show will not be the same without her
Joi Alexis great commentary and analysis
Why did it had to be Bayley who killed Poussey? Neither of them deserved this!
Ikr I'd get it if it was like piscatella but not Bailey he was my favorite gaurs other than Mendez
How can Mendez be your favorite guard? He also killed someone and was a dick to everyone...
+Elita P and he gave out drugs
+Elita P cause he was comic relief
It was so OITNB could demonstrate two important messages.
-Being against police brutality doesn't make you anti-cop.
-There are different types of bad cops, not all of which are bad people.
Bayley is easily the kindest cop in Litchfield. He may deal in smuggling and whatnot, but he isn't necessarily a sick to the prisoners and he's even the first to rat out the other officers for forcing the prisoners to fight.
However, he clearly is inexperienced and incompetent in dealing with situations. The prison riot in which Poussey dies is a situation he had no business being in, because he's not well-equipped enough to deal with it. He's a bad cop, but not a bad person.
We get the worst of both worlds. The most likable inmate being killed by the most likable guard. (Which yeah I realize is the idea story wise to give mixed emotions.) It's especially heartbreaking when all Bayley wants to do is let Poussey's friends know how sorry he is, but then realizing that going up to them would only make the situation worse.
@Ch Erry I liked her but IMO Nicky was the most likeable
@Ch Erry loved Suzanne except in Season 2.
@@llarmstrong783 ugh yes!!! Nicky is one of my favs! So damn funny
So we just gonna ignore the fact that that guy in the car admitted to killing people for fun in Afghanistan??
I know it's hard to listen to, but it's the truth. Many American soldiers have admitted to be killing innocent Afghan children and teens for fun.
Ikr what the fuck
I was so disturbed
I was more annoyed by the fact that they made him more of a friendly / sympathetic character toward the end.
@@chasef89 lol, for real! Somewhere around that fucked up Tucky and Donuts storyline the writers forgot Dixon is trash, and turned him into some kind of funny goofy teddy bear guy. The number of times I had to remind people how he raped and killed civilians for funsies...
It's ironic that Caputo told Bayley he should quit and when he didn't this happened
Aw he's so sweet. I probably wouldn't be able to live with myself.
Cops aren’t taught to hold there neck that long? Period, How come poussey died just like George Floyd ???😭😭😭😭😭😭
@@alexandriaa44 This cop was just being dumb. George Floyd's murderer did it on purpose.
Zanillani how didn’t he know she wasn’t breathing well she was literally saying it so loud I think that he needs to be fired at least
nyariak.b lol I understand it’s a television show but some people IDK why only listen to what they want and if I can change the way any one person sees George’s death then I’ll be happy.. because it isss real and it is happening weather you agree or not.. we gotta face it, periodddd
nyariak.b sorry I was replying to Zanillani
Piper probably saved Bailey’s life that night. God only knows what they would have done if he would have made it to the dorm.
Yeah she did
Yes she saved him Tasystee and the others would have killed him if he opened that door
I'm glad she did that. She knew they were literally one push away from killing the guard and kept her mouth shut about the incident and let them grieve.
Piper saved bayleys life by telling him to let Tasha and the others grieve since they probably would have killed him in a fit of rage
How is no one mentioning the guard driving being a digusting human being?
EXACTLY. Why is no one talking about it?
He implied that he killed children cause he was bored
@@awaywyou Go and fuck yourself pretty sure if he killed jewish people back in war u wont say that
@@awaywyou Wait, are you serious? I thought you were being sarcastic about how the writers tried to redeem him lmao. You really think being friends with Tucky makes up for being a war criminal?!
@@awaywyou God's forgiveness doesn't help the people whose lives were destroyed, wtf is wrong with you.
Some people want to blame Bayley for Poussey's death and some point the finger at Suzanne but ultimately the blame starts up top. The MCC. Had they fostered a system where guards can receive professional training when dealing with certain situations such as the one that the inexperienced Bayley was put in then none of this would have occurred. At least the older guards like Bennett, Maxwell, Bell, O'Neill, and Donalson treated the inmates humanely although they were strict.
Ikr
Some People also want to believe it's Racial profiling, and some it's not.
It’s (Pis) fault for starting to make Suzanne panic
Even Mendez did
Honestly, people who blame Suzanne for Pousey's death just because she had an episode should be silent. It wasn't her fault at all
its obvious they picked him because itll be conflicting to the viewer. it brings so much more dimension into it to see his grief and his guilt. if it wouldve been piscitella everyone would be thinking oh fuck him and be done with it.. also poussey because who doesnt love her..
anyway im bawling rn
Exactly
I apologize for posted over a year later, but after rewatching the show, i’ve looked at it at a different perspective. What makes the manslaughter of Poussey by Bayley so powerful is because how complex the show is. Both Poussey and Bayley have no business being inside a prison environment. Poussey was doing hard time for trespassing on an abandoned building with possession of a small amount of marijuana, (that does NOT justify going to prison for). Bayley was young, inexperienced, and lacked any proper training to be a prison guard. MCU have scene both Bayley and Poussey as perfect candidates for their business models for prison. Poussey was a quick cash cow (more inmates in prison means more taxpayer money going to them)while Bayley was a way to save money for the private prisons. (An inexperienced guard means paying them less with no benefits). Originally, it was easier to paint Bayley as a scapegoat and paint Poussey as a martyr. Any show would take this easier route and come with an easy resolution to the story. But, what I love about OITNB is that it never takes the easy route in storytelling. It shows the complexity of the situation that concludes that one person cannot make changes to the system. Bayley was not the problem, but a catalyst to a bigger problem. Poussey (regardless of how heartbreaking her death is) was not going to bring long, sustainable changes. If anything, they were both very disposable to the prison industrial complex.
I feel bad for both them💔💔💔
OOOOh, you feel sorry for Bailey being fucking alive that's so sweet
Whoa dude chill, the guy didn't mean to kill her. It was a total accident, he has to live with the fact he took another person's life and that's really fucking hard for people to do believe it or not.
Mistake or not, Should he not be held accountable for his actions?
me 2, he did not mean 2 kill her but i blame the MEDIA they started the riot it wasn't the fact that poussey died it was how i was HANDLED afterwards they did not even mention her NAME or say we are srry this happened i like bailey but he shhhould atleast b fired, and it is not his fault it is the otherf cops fault for placing ihm in that type of situation without the following tools to deal with it that type of situation covering it up jut pises me off becauses these women some of them didn't mean for things to g down the way it did but yet they r locked up..
u feel bad for a murderer? get help pyscho
Honestly, it's all piscatellas fault, he gave the order, he was also the reason the inmates were on the tables, if he wasn't so incompetent poussey would be alive and bayley wouldn't be depressed, piscatellas character was fcked up
Nope, it was Suzanne's fault. It's just that simple. She created the entire altercation to begin with, and she added her 220 pounds of weight to Poussey's mid-back when she attacked the guard, which is apparently where her lungs were located when she was somehow suffocated in like 45 seconds.
The guard driving him home hit several lines well... Talking nonchalantly about the violent crimes he willingly committed. Then him switching to, "we're young." He's not, but Bayley and Poussey were. This is a moment where Bayley is grieving- because grieving isn't just about death. He just threw away his moral character completely. And he's struggling. And the guard tries to justify that these things happen, and they shouldn't grow old with that regret. Very powerful scene.
Bayley shows how dangerous incompetence can be, even with the best of intentions. But yeah I think the other guard sees how awful Bayley feels about killing someone accidentally and is trying to make himself feel better about murder committed intentionally.
I've never watched OITNB but I watched Pousseys death and I instantly fell in love with her character - then she died.
Trippy Asian || *EXACTLY* *I've never watched OITNB but i only started watching short scenes and i instantly fell in love with Poussey and then i came across her death so quickly.. it came just like that* 😭😭😭😭😭😭
I'm sorry but I was so mad at crazy eyes during this scene.
Same here !!
Markus Pritsch I get why. But she does have untreated mental illness
Markus Pritsch fr
She killed P, not Bayley.
Derrick Reynolds who, crazy eyes?
Poussey's death was one of the most bullshit tv deaths I've ever seen but I will say props to the writers for having the balls to kill off a well respected character.
Her dead was very similar to real life. Xd
@@gggmt955 how tf is that funny?
@@keishaxxhello ikr! IT S NOT FUNNY AT ALL!!! he dared to add the emoji "Xd" like it's joke! bitch pleas
Just watched this episode today and while I had it spoiled for me that she was gunna die in a prison riot, I had no idea how it was going to actually go down. I feel very depressed, but also actually impressed at the show for killing her off. I know she was a fan favorite and I think having such a well-liked character die makes the message more powerful.
Apparently the writers of the show have no idea where the human respiratory system is located, but it's not like this series ever had a strong relationship with reality.
At least Piper was compassionate to him. My heart broke for everyone in that situation.
Ummmm what did he say about juggling grenades and rape/murder !?!! 😳😳
NOOOO WHY BAILEYY
Amy Idugboe *Bayley
SarahElizabeth580
It sucks but people are right, having Bayley be the accidental murderer creates a grey area sense of justice where the viewers (and Caputo) become emotionally conflicted between an innocent inmate and an innocent guard.
In the end, they both were victims. But as is the corporate world, one of them had to take the fall for MCC's mistake, and Caputo decided it would be better to blame it on someone who's already dead than a living, good guy guard who's life could have been even more ruined should he have been blamed.
Neither of them deserved the incedent, death, trauma or blame. It's all Piscatella's fault and MCC should have told the truth. Unfortunately, they'd rather worsen the stigma surrounding inmates or blame an individual guard than take the blame themselves. That's the way this messed up world works.
He didn't do anything. He had his knee on Poussey and Susan attacked him so he couldn't pay attention to what he was doing. He's a sweet guy. He would never do that on purpose. Poussey was a very amazing character who did in fact not deserve to die. But it isn't his fault. (Edit: This did *not* age well)
its hard to agree with that...but at the same time it makes since :(
i know but the way they HANDLED THE SITUATION that was not right bailey was not the only victim and they could at least say her name, it is just the way the media handled it , he should still b held accountible 4 it affter all the women were held accountable otherwise they would not b in prison but i do feel bad for bot of them...
Derrik Mullin He was not prepared to have that job. But, which one of the guards actually was...? Oh well. Poussey was my fav character (one of them) this pisses me off
and then you can't really put the blame on Suzanne she had been doing pretty good until Humphrey forced her to fight that one girl so i feel like he triggered her freak out at that moment if the commanding officer would have let P calm her down it would have been fine. This is such a complex situation.
Derrik Mullin HIS knee was on HER neck/back but it wasn't his fault?? 🤔 then whose fault was it cause as far as I'm concerned...
None of this would have happened if they were not stupidly and lazily cutting corners by hiring untrained guards that are more abusive and corrupted that didn't know how to do their job right and it's their fault someone like Bayley was brought into a situation he had no business or experience in handling. Now Poussey is gone and she's never coming back. Someone needs to be held accountable for her death.
this wouldnt have happened if someone had the retard in the psych ward where she would be IRL
You do realize it's all fictional, right?
@@Greywind920 Don't call her that. It's a shitty thing to say.
@@Greywind920 First of all bitch who tf do you think you are calling people with mental illness retards? Did suzanne put her full body weight on someone who's not even 100 pounds
@@laurenmarshall5885 why do yall say that about real life situations this might be fiction but it happens so often so often we witnessed it in real life
well in reality someone has to be held accountable for killing innocent people. you just don't get over it.
Yeah.. . That's my thing. Accident or not, police accountability is what we should be focused... But cops aren't being held accountable AT ALL.
Exactly. If someone drives drunk, crashes and kills an innocent person, we bring them up on manslaughter charges. Just because you didn't mean it, and say you're sorry, doesn't mean there shouldn't be accountability. Especially when it's usually guards, cops, etc, who get away with this sort of stuff, but poor and marginalized people never do.
"innocent"
Right. It doesnt matter if it was an accident, he still has to be held accountable for killing her.
@@eldradulthran6482 he had his knee on her back near her lungs before he got attacked. But go off
I love Bayley he's so funny and you tell he's a genuinely good person. He didn't mean to kill her sure he was an idiot but if a different co did it they wouldn't feel bad at all
He didn't kill her, Suzanne did.
I felt sorry for bailey. He was one of the few new guards who was a legit good person, naive and horribly gullible yes, but a good men no less. He was truly traumatised by what he did, and its sad that a man as young as him, barely an adult has to live with this mistake.
What makes his (accidental) involvement in Poussey's death hit home harder is that as a book titled ''The Wise Man's Fear'' (seen in S4E08) says/foreshadowed, one of the three things that wise men feared was ''anger in a gentle man'', and when you think about it, Bayley was the 'gentle man' whose anger accidentally caused Poussey's death 😭
Sam Birchall He wasn't angry he was trying to control the situation.
He wasn't angry. He was inexperienced and dummy crazy eyes should have stopped.
Crazy Eyes stupid ass kept jumping on him
220 pounds of nutjob anger caused her death, not Bayley. I love the hoops people will jump through to resolve black people of any blame for anything they do.
Piper has so many moments like these where even after all the stupid, annoying stuff she does it’s impossible to hate her
Yo i cry so damn much when Poussey died, I loved her so freaking much
It was crazy eyes fault though, he put so much pressure on her back because he was fighting her off, he shouldn't have grabbed poussey at all though, she got killed for "let me talk to her, she don't know what she doing". Damn man. Crazy for a show to get you like this.
True.
No the reason she was grabbed is because piscatella ordered every body to get grabbed off the benches and crazy eyes did do what you said she did but because she was trying to protect her she was distracting the guard so in state of mind it is kind of both crazy eyes and Baylis fault
in retrospect id say humps is to blame - during the interogations, humps was forcing inmates to fight - which, poor suzanne wanted no involvement with - however kukudio volunteered to fight suzanne, the poor girl had people screaming at her, pushing her towards kukudio until she snapped (understandably, suzanne has a history with breaking down under pressure, she's an extremely delicate person and everyone in that room was fully aware of that), this driving her to repeatedly beat on kukudio, screaming 'i told you to stop' over and over as she did until she was unconscious. later in the cafeteria, when piscatella (whom was also quite blameable) called for backup and they arrived, suzanne thought she was in trouble and fell into a meltdown, yelling 'i did a bad thing' over and over again. poussey got down from the table to try and help her, which resulted in - yeah. she was driven by others into a meltdown, there was no way she could have helped it.
I completely disagree with all of you.
Crazy Eyes couldn’t help that she was having a nervous breakdown. Bailey wasn’t properly trained by the agency and he is easily influenced by his peer and kind of a yes man. He seems like the type of guy who will do anything people tell him to even if he feels that what he is doing is wrong. It was Officer Piscatella’s fault. They were peacefully protesting and instead of listening to what they had to say, he sent in more guards and just escalated the situation. If he just listened none of this would have happened.
Melandy Bunch fr tho like why he gotta grab her like dat in but book that’s abuse
He was one of the few guards who had some moral compass.
anyone else watching in 2020 and notice how this ties into george floyd? like bayley didn’t kill her intentionally but poussey passed the same way george floyd did. weird how it’s four years later too...
yeah...
There's a theory the poussey's dad is gonna come to the prison and sue. Bayley should've been paying attention to what he was doing when the accident happened, I'd love to see what happens to piscatella😏
chocolate chip cookie true
shot in the face
Hello I'm Miaya. Juss
Well it was Suzanne’s fault too as she couldn’t control herself and started attacking Bayley so he couldn’t do anything
goofy child. I don’t think he could’ve paid attention when crazy eyes was attacking him and I wish poussey never died it sucks I loved her she was my favorite one out of all of them well besides Daya but still
such conflicting feelings with this situation. there should be justice for poussey's death but at the same time bailey should be held accountable for what he did even though it was unintentional.
"I sat on chairs and they broke under me" not a great thing to say to the dude who accidentally killed someone via crushing them. Also not a good idea to reveal that apparently you are a fucking monster
And then had the nerve to say that he's a good person, which is both laughable a d disturbing. He's a psychopathic monster.
I always liked Caputo, he was the tragic anti-hero of the whole series. He cared but he also was an asshole. He wanted justice done but was tor between his ethical coe and his jo description.
now I feel bad about bayley he was so sweet and nice he was just trying help and do what he was supposed to do...and he was crying so much made me wanna cry also...I felt like taystee did not have to take it out on him I mean yeah poussey was almost everybody's friend I love bayley as a actor tho and poussey
I hate the fact that no one tried to punish Bayley but himself😠😬
Hassan Junior Sallah I saw him as a child he didn’t deserve it though your mind can hurt you more than anything he was simply doing his job shit happens
He should have been fired.
After Mendez, Bayley is my favourite guard. It sucks it had to be him who killed the most beautiful character, for me, Poussey
Mendez is a complete DOUCHEBAG
I know, his attitude is so wrong, but I love how he look, I guess. :p
And after him and Bayley, well, I do like the guard with that loves Doggett.
Guard that loves Doggett* Should it say.
I hated Méndez. He took advantage of girls who were desperate because of the withdrawal. One of them even comitted suicide.
But at least the guard who was "in love" with Doggett showed some remorse.
I liked Mendez too 😂
I felt soo bad for bayley. He didn’t deserve all that guilt and pain. He didn’t mean too kill her
GUYS IT'S CALLED PLOT TWIST OK. I mean yea I fucking cried ok but this grabbed everyone's attention cause its never the nice guy who accidentally kills someone nice too.
As someone who couldn't finish season four once they were spoiled on Poussey's death, but has watched clips and read about it, I'm surprised so many people blame Bayley, or Suzanne, or any number of people in the prison, because what it comes down to is the fact that the death was entirely preventable if the guards had gotten the proper training. If they had been given enough time for the guards to be trained, ideally, a guard's incompetence would be shown during that training, and they could either fix it and teach them the correct way of doing things, or fire them during that trial period. I feel like season 3 was a commentary about the pitfalls of capitalism. The prison was fucked up in a lot of ways for the first two seasons, but it got so much worse when MCC bought it - the company's main goal was to make money, which made everything worse, from the food to the guards to the daily standard of living for the inmates. It allowed for guards to do terrible things and not be held accountable (forcing Blanca to stand on a table for days is a form of torture when she can't use the bathroom and urinates on herself).
Ultimately, it is the people trying to cut corners to save money that are responsible, but because the people at the corporate office weren't physically there when Poussey was killed, no one really pays attention to the fact that it was their decisions that fostered an environment that allowed for the incident to happen.
Aww😭U can tell he is truly sorry for what he did😖 hopefully he is able to make amend with the prisoners or Poussey's Dad🤧
Sadly he didnt
I think bayley and crazy eyes are very similar, they both killed someone but not no purpose, I feel bad for both of them :(
This shows the way lack of training or poor training harms the system and all of those within the system
In the show, taystee and group were blaming all of the stuff on bailey but didn't realize that crazy eyes was attacking him too.
He was a good kid that needed some directions.
That sucks poussay had to die.
Bailey didn't deserve to kill poussay.
Poussay was gonna have a life plan for soso. 😢
it was an accident he's such a sweet guy in this show and better than half the cops on here id for give him he's not a murder
Jesus that guy is a war criminal
This is why it's so important for police to get proper training. In a high stress situation, it's already hard enough to spring into action and know everything you're suppose to do. Bayley wasn't a monster, he was thrown into a bad situation. He was responsible for what happened, but none of it was out of malicious intent.
Unlike Bayley, some cops don't fell remorse for what they did.
Actually crazy eyes' stupid ass was responsible for that, not him.
I love how Caputo and Chapman were kind to him
Man fuck him he should’ve done a job that he was comfortable doing and trained he should have never been a coo he wasn’t prepared for that
I love Bailey, neither him or Poussey deserved this
If I went and said sorry to janea or tastey I don't know about cindy but if he talked to janea or tastey he would get himself killed. If it was together boy he is going to see the light fast😞
THIS IS SUCH A SAD SCENE!!!!!!!!
He is a good actor
Aye yo no one’s gonna talk about dudes stories in the car???? Dude did what to the farm child?!?!?! Strangled and taped WHO in the small village?!?!?!?
Yeah I get he was a good guy and it was an accident but nevertheless it’s still 3rd degree manslaughter. Meaning it was non intentional.
But at the same time, he was an untrained guard with no experience, it was fault of the MCC for cutting corners and hiring untrained COs
This feels a lot sadder after what cop did
#BlackLivesMatter don’t let anyone tell you other wise
listen. my heart was broken for both pousey as well as Baley. Because he truly did not mean to do what he did and the humanity and sadness he showed after his actions stood out the most because he truly came into that job as a kid smh all the rest of them didn’t care. listening to the other guard compare her to a chair he was sitting in. smh
I don't blame him, he just wanted to help. I'm so sorry for him... This situation is just horrible..
I feel him
Caputo warned him. But he stayed.
Dispute how unrealistic this show is regarding corrections. I'm glad they humanized the CO's a bit.
I feel so bad for him 🥺
I don’t blame him at all for killing pousey. If we being honest it wasn’t him it was crazy eyes fault cause she kept attacking him causing him to pay less attention to the girl on the floor . If it wasn’t for her pousey wouldn’t have died
He's so sweet why would they make it be him that killed her
Because that's what makes us more conflicted about the situation.
Alien Egg plot
i can understand why some people believe that bayley was the wrong choice for this. in the real world, when cops do this to black people, it's often... very much not an accident. they'll suffocate another human to death, crack jokes about their victims' pleas for mercy, then give themselves a paid vacation afterwards. they don't mourn like bayley does. but from a storyline pov, i appreciate the gray area nuance of the situation. they are trying to show the scope of damage done by the american criminal justice system and illustrate the dangers of poor training in a profession like this.
The whole ending of season 4 fucked me up. Neither Poussey nor Baxter deserved this.
How did she die? Its hard too tell because he was on top of her but he wasn't hitting her.
When Poussey died and all the guards saw it
I kinda hated the guards after the riot because I understand it was pretty traumatic especially to that one girl for being held hostage by refugee's but at the same time it was kinda shit on how they didn't really sympathize with the prisoners for losing a friend/best friend/lover and that really pissed me off.
But that's just me holding grudges lol
People blaming crazy eyes?! The grown man had his damn knee on a tiny framed girl HIS DAMN KNEE SHOULDNT BE ANYWHERE ON HER PERIOD THERES BETTER WAYS TO RESTRAIN PEOPLE all the knee in the back or neck does is stop air flow POLICE/GUARDS/SECURITY should know better #justiceforgeorgefloyd
This is tv show........
Exactly.
How dare you conflate the true tragedy of George Floyd to a scenario in a TV series. For what? Likes?
2:52 did Dixon k ll kids??? Listen to his dialogue. He talks about them "growing up" and getting revenge
You know he didn't mean to do it. But unfortunately most people don't think about it.
Nor do they felt remorse
Damn i feel bad for poussey and bayley
I can’t even understand why bayley was hired in the first place, there was no way he was good enough to be a CO, he’s just too nice and not headstrong enough
Of course...the writers made one of the good guards be put in the shitty situation
I think another prisoner saw her beg in pain for him to get up and that prisoner did nothing but watch just like us the viewers. Just a thought.
Poor Bailey he didn’t mean to
So are we gonna ignore that Suzanne charged at him??????
Wow the guard who drove him home shouldn’t have made it to the end of the episode after that speech. Wtfff
I feel so bad for him he has to suffer he should have stayed home.
The redhead officers is the same one that thought he deserved an apology for what the inmates did to him, what when it was his turn he couldn’t let it go
Also he knew the other disgusting officers was rapist pensatuky and did nothing
I know this is gonna anger a lot of people for me to say this, but it wasn’t Bayley’s fault for accidentally killing poussey. It was crazy eyes. Now bare with me. I mean, crazy eyes was going crazy and saying she did a bad thing for standing up on the table and poussey was trying to do was calm her down but she got held down. If crazy eyes didn’t hit the cop like she did, poussey wouldn’t die like that. So yes, the cop wouldn’t know what he did cause of the crowd being so loud and getting hit like that. So yes. I’m saying it’s crazy eye’s fault.
you aren't angering anyone lmao check the comments. everyone agrees
for starters - probably best you called her by her name, suzanne, rather than a rather derogatory nickname given to her by inmates who cant comprehend her mental illness - fully aware shes a fictional character, but she is a representative for mentally ill inmates and the mistreatment and abuse they endure in prison - in short, shes a person, not a mental case (i seem like id be fun at parties, i know)
secondly, she wasnt 'going crazy' she was having a meltdown lmao
third of all, she wasnt saying that she was doing a bad thing for standing on the tables/involving herself in the peaceful protest?? if you watched the entirety of 'the animals' (this might have taken place in the episode before, not too sure) you note that while piscatella was holding investigations regarding the dead guard, humphrey was forcing inmates to fight. suzanne made it vocally clear as day that she didnt want to participate in this, receiving responses such as being called a 'retarded ape' etc., however kukudio stood up and volunteered to fight her. everyone formed a circle around the two, pushing and shoving while suzanne pleaded 'stop!' 'i dont want to fight!' 'please dont push!' etc. etc., the pressure pushing down on her till she eventually snapped and tackled kukudio, beating down on her face as she screamed 'i told you to stop!' until kukudio was knocked unconscious. throughout the rest of the episode suzanne can be caught mumbling 'i did a bad thing' in a monotone voice, indicating that these events really messed her up. skip to the protest. suzanne was clearly doing fine until *piss*catella called for backup, their arrival bringing suzanne to thinking she was in trouble for hurting kukudio. this caused her meltdown, humps and piscatella caused her meltdown, there was nothing she could have done to prevent it from happening. each to their own, just giving my two cents lol i completely respect your opinion and youre certainly not alone where you stand, nobodys mad at you !!
Agreed. I always saw it as crazy eyes fault
#RIPPOUSSEY
I don't know if this is bad or not but I'm more mad at crazy eye then Bailey
I mean he’s a nice guy but he still took a life
I feel bad for him
Wait I'm still confused about she died
Piscatella and MCC had to be charged for the murder.
This is messed up how poussey die. Bailey life is ruin.
his voice reminds me of dakotaz the fortnite streamer
How the fuck does he don't know
I still don’t get how poussey died did she suffocate?
Yes. She died of chest compression, which means that her lungs couldn't expand, interfering with breathing.
I blame Piscatella completely for this
Killed her just like Radio Raheem in my eyes
Crazy how his happened before George Floyd
I still blame Suzanne much more than I blame Bayley.
Bayley was a wet behind the ears puppy with no proper training . If piscatella hadn't gone mad and started pulling people off tables it never would've happened,I hate him .
It was like Susana accidental y killing the boy
This guy deserves to rot in a cell for killing my girl Poussey
I like Bayley, but he should still be responsible for his actions. That was someone's daughter. gone. I hope she gets some kind of justice, I've started season 5 but haven't finished it.
god damn this subplot was interesting. you could definitely make the argument that it was inappropriate for the writers (i think all of whom were white?) to make baxter this sympathetic considering how purposeful and malicious police brutality usually is in the real world, but if you take the character for who he is, wow.
the fact that it was an accident that happened during a chaotic situation, it's not like he was intentionally abusing his power against poussey. suzanne also unintentionally played a role in her death, which i don't think she was punished for either, but the reason she was there in the first place was because she was punished for unintentionally causing dylan's death, so baxter's privilege as a white male CO in this situation is still palpable. he definitely both benefits from and played a role in the abuse of power that killed her but that doesn't mean he was guilty of abusing power himself. he knows he got off too easy.
it makes complete sense for poussey's dad and friends to not forgive him, not only because of his mistake, but also the privilege he has that not only allowed it to happen but also insulated him from consequences, but that doesn't mean he's objectively irredeemable.
the fact that the CO driving him home began his consolation with the fact that he's accidentally broken chairs under him but went on to recount how he committed literal war crimes, and THEN said "you're a good guy....I'M a good guy"...blurring the line between an accident/mistake and intentional, malicious victimization. so vilifying.