BEST fast 3D PRINTER? X1 Carbon VS. Voron 2.4 VS. V400
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2024
- Visit PCBWay, the sponsor of this Video:
www.pcbway.com/
Support Albert and 247printing on Patreon:
/ 247printing
247printing on social media:
------------------------------------------------
Twitter bit.ly/3tSh8M2
TikTok: bit.ly/3FIHqWv
Instagram bit.ly/37b94yf
Discord bit.ly/3Cy5jPf
Good Sources for the printers and parts*:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
LDO Docs and Sources bit.ly/3KCSoy4
LDO Voron 2.4 Kit (3DJAKE) tidd.ly/3siqkJr
The X1 Carbon: bit.ly/theX1C (High End recommendation)
Shop at Bambu Lab: bit.ly/247BambuLab
FLSUN V400 (3DJAKE) tidd.ly/3D07w6x
FLSUN Speeder-Pad (3DJAKE) tidd.ly/3StMyCH
FLSUN High-Speed-Nozzle (3DJAKE) tidd.ly/3F867gR
CHT Volcano Nozzle (3DJake) tidd.ly/3VNkxZT
Recommmended alternative sources for FAST PRINTERS*:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voron 0.1 (AliExpress): bit.ly/39kfWdC
Voron 2.4 (AliExpress): bit.ly/3PklmWE
Voron Trident (AliExpress): bit.ly/3yxMaNe
TH-cam channels on speed printing:
------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Murrah (Crazy V2.4) / joshmurrah
Nitram (Crazy Delta) / nitram_3d
MirageC (HevOrt) / miragec
Vez3D (VzBot) / vez3d
Annex Engineering (CroXY) / annexengineering
0:00 Introduction and Sponsor
2:17 Specs and Prices
4:14 Features Compared
8:50 Printers Setup
10:52 Performance Test
15:19 Conclusion and Discussion
*Can be affiliate links at no extra cost. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
For anyone considering the Voron 2.4: It can be a great printer, but don't underestimate the amount of work it takes to get one of these kits together. Especially if that kind of thing isn't something you've done before. The community is pretty great, but it is still a massive task. I know some people that have both the Voron 2.4 and the X1C, and all of them say they would rather have the X1C, especially when considering the work involved in building the Voron.
Nope, this might not be underestimated! Depends on the Kit though: Mechanically it shouldn't be a big problem. The difference in kits comes at wiring. The most problems might arise when configuring and calibrating. For the first time it could be quite annoying to do.
Oh yes. I "finished" (you will never be done with this printer) my build some weeks ago. I sourced all parts myself. So no kits. This was a big ton of work but in my opinion it is worth every second.
Yeah I mean realistically a voron costs 1500+1500 in high end manual labour, for this kind of work 50$ an hour is actually a low estimate. So if you value your time or need to take time of work to get this done it's really just a very expensive option
Bigger thing for me was dialing it in
How many hours do you think it's needed from 0 to ready to print quality parts ?
I have all 3 Printers: X1C, V400 and 2.4x350 and I would say that V400 is a best one. 2.4 costs much more than 1500usd with work (I think 2K minimal) and the quality depends on your tuning and right assembly skills. X1C has ringing on high speeds and there is no option to manually adjust input shaping. Both are incredibly loud. V400 is very quiet compared to others and with Klipper you have ability to tweak and adjust anything by yourself if you want. The only downside of V400 is no enclosure to print large models with engineering materials like abs or pa, but you also can print it by yourself and it will cost less than voron
Thank you for your honest feedback, very helpful!!!
How are they in terms of speed?
Thanks a lot for this comment. Did u have any issues today with v400?
Mega Video, hat mir sehr gut gefallen. Du bist schuld, dass ich die ganzen Skirt-Parts vom Voron nun nochmal zweifarbig drucke! Schaut mega aus!
Heyyy vielen Dank! Als langjähriger Fan deines Channels total krass von dir so einen Kommentar zu ernten, fühle mich mega geehrt! Ich sehe: du lebst das Bambu = Tool für DIY fun! Bin gespannt auf deinen V2.4!
Caught you there
Gibt es für die 2 farbigen Skirts irgendwo eine STL oder 3MF Datei?
It needs to be said that the V400 is €776 (€940 incl tax) and the X1C will cost you €1129 (€1366 incl tax) in Europe. So that is a price difference of €426...
And, at this moment, i ordered one, it is 660€ included shipping and 1kg of tpu. While i wil be sending back my creality k1. Peace of crap.
@@quadcopterhobbyshansie_fpv5895could you please share the link, thank you 😊
@@quadcopterhobbyshansie_fpv5895 Yeah they went down in price a lot. Bought at Geekbuying?
Still a piece of crap btw.
We are much honored to partner with you, Albert! 🥂🥂
That's a mutual feeling - thanks a lot also from my side !
@@247printing 🍻🥂
I love the the custom printer experience, so I'm in the process of sourcing components from multiple companies to build a Voron 2.4. That being said it would be super beneficial to have a fast printer that "just works" regardless of the X1's closed source nature. Great comparison video!
To quote one of my favorite woodworking channels: “I want to print stuff, not futz around with printers”. Looks like the V400 for me.
My thoughts exactly
Great overview! I loved the twist at the end! I've been using a Creality 10s pro for quite a few years but recently started looking around for either an enclosure or an enclosed printer that would do my ABS/ASA projects. I ended up ordering a Bambu X1C, but may consider building the Voron as I do have some concerns about the proprietary hardware being serviceable in the future! Thanks
$1000 for the FLSUN V400? Nope. $849 USD with TAX INCLUDED. I actually got mine for 699 in the pre-sale. (I missed the Bambu X1 by one day, when I almost cancelled my V400, and if I was buying another expensive printer would probably take a long look at the X1 Carbon for sure. With so many automatic helper features, it definitely is the future. Loving my V400 though. Times have at least halved compared to my other printers, and that's with PETG with is notorious for being a pain to print fast.
Great video! i was literally thinking the same thing at the end of the video! Thanks for the break down! I did see the Voron a little intimidating, but once you explained it as the 2cd playground project. I think ill enjoy building it.
Great video as usual Albert. Love your stuff. It challenges me to push my learning to the next level… Klipper, Voron, etc… I’ll be following in your footsteps soon!
Thanks a lot, Jonathan! If you need anything concerning Klipper or Voron: I am glad to help! It's quite a journey the first time...
My favourite part of the video was your conclusion summarizing the merits of these printers. They all have different use case and you did a good job explaining that. Cheers.
Thank you for the in-depth comparison. I found it very helpful 👍👍😎👍👍
Very well done and informative video, thank you! I built an LDO Voron 2.4R2 kit, had great fun doing it. After build, the real fun started, modding and replacing stock parts to make improvements. I did recently order a Bambu X1 Carbon with AMS, looking forward to using both.
Thank you very much! It's great to read like you guys proceed in 3D printing. Atm when I walk over to my printer room, I have the DIY side and the "plug and play" side - I am SO HAPPY and fortunate to have both. Don't want to miss any of them.
@@247printing I got my X1C with AMS a few days ago, this thing is amazing! And fast! Love it!
Great walk-through!
Thanks for sharing your expirence with all of us 👍 😀
Had to give you a thumbs up for the in-depth description and for pretty much making me decide on my plans for my next 3D printer. I had in mind to buy the X1C and then print the parts for a Voron there after. Your video pretty much confirmed what I already thought was a good idea. Thank you!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Absolutely excellent in depth comparison. I learned quite a bit and am now aware some pretty important pitfalls vs pros that I was not aware of before. Thanks!
Thanks a lot, I am very glad you liked it!
Great to see a comparison between these three. Very informative 👍
Thanks a lot Magnus!
This was a fantastic review! Thank you for all your hard work. THUMBS UP!!!
Thank You for this great Video and the time you took to make it! I like that you also mentioned the aspect of reparability.
Thanks a lot for watching and commenting 🤘
Woooow amazing honest review!! Thank you for your hard work!! Your channel should have more then 500 000 subs.
I printed the parts for my LDO Voron 2.4 on my Klipperized CR10 while I wait for my X1 Carbon to arrive (next week!). So excited to have another fast printer so I can tinker more with the Voron. Also, Klicky mod is very satisfying.
Really nice video! Thanks for the insightful information, I've already order an X1 Carbon and decided that I will use my E3V2 for a sandbox project (for now) :)
This video has a Project Farm feel & it’s awesome. Thank you & I think this was a great format for this video!
Thank you! Your comment made me finally realize the “Project Farm” is a TH-cam channel 🤣 Had some people talking about that and didn’t get it 👍
I have just built LDO Voron 300. Could not be happier. Build was straightforward and very enjoyable.
Same feelings here: That was hell of a great and enjoyable experience!
Weird thing is, some time ago I read people running 20, 30 or more Voron 2.4 in their print farms. Easier to stock up on replacement parts when you can order from countless suppliers and printing your own bits.
That’s a viable procedure and imho!
In my experience, it's very, very difficult to source more than 6 identical kits at a time due to supply chain issues. You can do it if you hodgepodge different manufacturers and components, but that causes crazy support problems.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 Great review! One of the best i have ever seen! Keep up the great work
Love the videos. Spent the day listening at work. Great video. Just got my hands on the X1C, she’s a Monster.
Great comparison video too. I loved it. Thanks for sharing.
Interestingly just what I'm deciding between atm. Thanks! 🙏👍😄
Maisdreschen - sehr geil :D Thank you - that's the best comparison on TH-cam so far. I'm not really on search for a new one - my Voron 01, Switchwire and 2.4R2 are enough, but there are always friends who asked for an easy Printer and who failed with all the "cheap" ones. I think the Bamboo Labs is really a more than fair deal and it works out of the box.
This video is just amazing to me. The amount of work required to create seems massive. Thank you for this review. You've more than earned my subscription. I've been interested in the Voron since hearing about it (not that long ago) and then heard about the X1C and had many questions about both. I think you've answered all of them. I still don't know which I'll do, I need to think about it, but the idea of buying an X1C to use to build the Voron seems like a great idea. If I am not motivated to build the Voron, I'll still have an amazing printer out of the box. Next step, look to see if you have a review of the X1C multi-filament module. :)
X1C if you want out of the box
Something else Cartesian before Voron if hobby. Get used to working on 3d printer motherboards, wiring, stepper motors and extruder / hotends before starting the Voron. Bonus is that you can print voron parts and replacements.
Great video. Thank you. I got the Ender 3 a month ago, first printer, great fun. I'm buying the Bamboo today after watching your video.
Thanks for the awesome video!
Hey Jason, thank you for everything ! Without you and LDO the community wouldn’t be complete 👍
This was an excellent comparison video of 3 monster 3D printers. Script was great, footage was top notch, and I love the testing you do 👍. Great job buddy 😊. Really enjoyed it.
@@ModBotArmy Oh Man, thank you so much - it's always a pleasure to have you here!
When I wanted to build a Voron the choice of kits was not as prolific as it is today and of the ones that were available they were never 100% available with lots of the parts out of stock, that coupled with the fact many people were complaing about the quality of parts and having to replace many of the parts, I decided to self source the very best quality parts I could lay my hands on to build a Pro 3D V-King 400, this incurred quite high shipping costs but I ended up with the printer of my dreams, I have had zero issues with it once I got it tuned in and it prints just beautiful parts and prints them fast.
My first printer was a delta- I absolutely love them. They work very well.
My 1st printer was delta and I absolutely hated it 😁
I still have mine and it's still running fine almost 4 years now qqs pro
My Flsun SR (modified) has done 1000s of hours and I'm still on the same belts!!!@@rockman49er
Great video! I enjoyed it a lot. I really think your conclusion is quite good. I will continue to enjoy the Voron machines because I like to tinker, and be able to repair my machine easily similar to what you concluded. I am glad thee is some good competition with new designs and printers, it will continue to help move things forward and benefit everyone.
Thanks a lot Greg! No reason to stop enjoying Vorons :-) A Bambu working in the background is quite convenient though!
Excellent vid. Just got Klipper going on my Delta and my, my what an amazing eco system!
I think when we get to the bow wave of "worn out" X1C printers 5 years from now, there will be plenty of modding ideas to "jailbreak" it into something more custom, anyways. That always happens with stuff like this when the residual value falls low enough or the warranty runs out so people feel more free to tinker. I fully expect a 3rd party nozzle/heatbreak to come out for it within a year.
I can't wait for the voronized X1C
It's not that there isn't the ability to do it, there's just no need. Tinkerers already went voron mostly, and it's perfect for us, but the X1 just works, so people who want that will just end up buying the replacement parts to repair it, and Bambu apparently handholds pretty well for doing expected repairs. I doubt it'll be necessary to have an aftermarket scene for the x1c
Fantastic content! And very helpful.
yeeey, a video with all the printers on my shopping list!
Awesome video! The overhang test included with my v400 printed without supports pretty well all the way up to 70 degrees which I found pretty impressive. My x1 carbon combo has constant purge shoot clogs and requires a lot of baby sitting but that may be the Sunlu PLA. Waiting on a different companies PLA to test this. The x1cc does print absolutely beautifully. I just don't have the time or energy to put into building a voron 2.4 even though I think they are super cool.
Thank you for this video it was helpful, in my opinion I would get the Bambu Lab Carbon X1, I have a Prusa MK3S+ and I love it, but I wanted a faster printer, but I wasn't sure about the Bambu Lab until my friend got one I saw how well it printed and its speed, and I also saw this video, and I hope to eventually get the Bambu Lab Carbon X1.
Flsun v400 is amazing. The thing got rid of my fear of printing for days on end. It will go for 36hrs straight without an issue. Having that much faith in your machine is game changing.
I went LDO 2.4 as my first printer. Almost finished with the build, at least to get it functional. I pretty much just have the toolhead left to build (decided to upgrade the toolhead PCB to the 2 piece one) and get it tuned. I did at least hook everything up, flashed the firmware, and did some motion testing and initial configuration. I haven't tried printing yet, but I will once I get the new toolhead PCB installed.
Aside from a couple of frustrating moments, it's been enjoyable so far. I've been taking my time with it over about a month, but haven't touched it in a couple of weeks.
Oooh man this is the video I needed to see! All my top choices! (Next to prusa of course)
A very clear and precise video comparison . Glad to here the pro’s and cons of each machine. I’m certainly veering towards the X1 Carbon for the future! . Time will tell as to each ones help or backup regards spares going forward. Appreciate all your hard work in doing this review! Keep it up.
Thanks a lot Diana, your comment helps a lot to keep my motivation very high !
Thanks for the review; it really helped with my decision.
For anyone considering the FLSun V400, I have one and it has done really well. Very fast and with the current Cura profile, quality is good. I don't see any of the stringing here or in other earlier reviews. There is even plenty of opportunity to improve the profile further and make it even faster. Assembly is an honest 45 minutes and it just works. The software (Klipper, Mainsail and Moonraker) is a huge step up from Marlin and the remote interface is excellent.
Thanks I was just getting ready to pull the trigger on a V400.
@@sharazar flsun has ZERO support, keep this in mind please.
The v400 scrapes the print a lot and you have to pull your hair out trying to fix that.
Flsun as many Chinese companies are not honest in their advertising, I would do more research for the v400.
I got it, I like it, but was it the best choice? I don't know
Hello... Can you plaseee Share your cura Profile...
I got into 3d printing a little over a year ago, and back then all the "this is a good starter printer" assumed that everyone involved was interested in *building* a printer. I'm so glad to see that's changing - because I'm *not* interested in building a printer, and I don't think I'm alone. I really appreciated that this comparison acknowledges that Vorons are for people who want to build their machine, and the other two are for people who just want to press "play" and move on.
Also, it's great to have some numbers comparing the X1C and the V2.4. Just today I saw yet another "which printer is faster?" question and it's nice to have some evidence to support my assumption that they're pretty much the same. Danke schon!
i have a question for you: if you had a choice between these 3 but the voron came completely built which would you choose?
@@drewberrynews3875 It's hard to be completely impartial on this as I do own an X1C. But... I think I'd still go with it, especially if I managed the same purchase price I actually paid - I got early bird kickstarter pricing which drops the cost a lot.
Even at full retail, though, the X1C is designed for minimal user intervention. This is the flip side of all those proprietary parts, but it does make life a lot easier. The printer tunes itself, no screwing around with Klipper. The nozzle, throat, and heat break are a single part - no more blobs of doom. (I've destroyed two different hotends on my Ender 5 because it's so hard to get the nozzle and throat seated properly.) Okay, you can get a Revo for the Voron, but that's just an example. Sure, a Voron will be easier to self-repair, but if you don't have the skills and interest in building it in the first place, you probably don't have the skills and energy needed to repair it, either.
For me, as a person who doesn't find screwing around with the printer to be a fun task, the X1C is a clear winner. (If I only printed PLA and PETG, I'd strongly look at the P1P instead.) *Everything* about it is designed to minimise the effort and interaction between the user and the printer. That's a big upside for me. Even if someone else built the Voron for me, there's a lot of little details that need to be attended to by the user; which is fine, because the person that a Voron is pointed towards is a person who *wants* to fiddle with those details.
So - yeah, even if the Voron was fully built, I really think that only a person who wants to fiddle around with their printer, tinkering and modifying, should get one. If you want your printer to be reliable and unobtrusive, get an X1 or a P1P.
The main thing that I worry about with the Bambu is the use of bushings on carbon slider rods. As an engineer that combination worries me from a wear perspective, and I've noticed some limited reports of bushing wear "out in the wild" (but not as much as I would have guessed). This issue could be mitigated if Bambu designed the bushings to be end-user replaceable.
The Voron's linear rails OTOH should be completely bombproof as well as being easily replaced. Yes, they weigh more and limit achievable acceleration, but there are reasons why you don't see configurations like the Bambu's in professional printers or similar motion-intensive devices.
I feel quite negatively about products like the Bambulab X1C -- Relying heavily on proprietary tech in 3d printing, where components often need servicing/replacement, seems very risky in the long term. If Reprap could evolve into machines like the Prusa i3 MK3S+, I'm quite curious what "intellectual non-property" like Voron & Ratrig will evolve into. I think within a few years there will be suppliers selling pre-assembled & supported printers from these lineages, and they will probably leapfrog the rest of the market in terms of reliability, performance & serviceability.
That said, I do understand why makers who just want a functional PRODUCT rather than a project, and need it right NOW, would get an X1C.
Bambu Lab is selling filaments for their reusable spools, spare sheets for their plates and printer-parts like the extruder, fans, camera and other stuff for reasonable prices. There are so far accessories missing you might want to replace in the future with more tear and wear, but I believe they will provide more substantial replacements once they can keep up with the demand. But I just hope that and it's a gamble so far.
Great review, thanks!
Big work here, thanks buddy!
Thanks a lot for realizing ! ❤
Bambu Lab X1 Carbon is the clear winner
After looking at many reviews I am planning on getting the Bambu Lab X1 Carbon with AMS system. That said, I will eventually build a Voron 2.4, just not quite ready to do such an involved build just yet. Not to mention the printers I have now are not well suited for ABS/ASA, but the X1 Carbon, is.
This exactly. Having just unboxed this X1C, nothing else is even crossing my mind. 🤯
@@GiddyUpTime Made an preorder on x1c 2 hours ago :) lets see what im getting into. i have no experience with 3d printing :) prolly going to be a fantastic jorney :)
@@thespectator2976 lucky
@@thespectator2976 u get printer yet
@@jamesharris9894 Nope, not yet. Still waiting. The site said "end of March" so. yeah. hopefully it goes faster :)
Absolutely THANK YOU! I have literally spent a week researching and diving in to this! I need a work horse to keep expanding my print business, I arrived at the carbon x1 for the exact same reasons you stated.
I was very validating to see someone as well respected as you to come to the same conclusion. 😁 if I wasn’t dropping all my money on printers I would have a few dollars to send your way to say thank you, your work here is truly appreciated.
The small Enders style or kinroons are failing me and I don’t have time to keep fixing and ordering parts constantly when I have standing orders. Hopefully the X1 can catch up and free up the time I need to go fix the old printers… then maybe a Voron LDO of course.
If it's for a printing business, just keep in mind a Bamboo X1 is worth 4 Enders or 3 CR10. Even at high speed, is it able to produce as much?
@@sergeb7945 Yes I mentioned that but I have had terrible luck with the disposable printers… my latest 3month old printer for under $300 needs a new hotbed thermistor and that is 5 days after it needed a new hotend… and my etruders gave up on life with my other and my third printer is waiting on new fans… 3 $300-$600 printers and they all keep going down weekly. Yes my volume will decidedly decrease but I might just get the reliability I need. It is less a full time thing rather a pure side hustle that I don’t have as much time for tinkering and fixing as I thought I did.
@@MakerBees333 If reliability is what you're after, stick with prusa, their dependability is proven. one of my MK3s' has 10 miles of carbon nylon printed through it with zero broken components. All stock, just new nozzles. Factory hotend, bed, extruder, rails, etc.
@@LilApe I will consider that thank you, I may expand with Those in the future as well as the X1. If I was going to start all over again I wish I would have been able to tell myself to spend the money on a Mk3 to start… I would probably have been more successful and had more money to spend on the fancy multi color x1 as a Kickstarter 😆.
Hey Theodore, Thanks a lot for your comment! Same for me: these were the most interesting printers this year and I am happy that was able to make this video about them. Technically they’re all fine within their differences, but software, settings and support make the difference. That’s why Prusa can also still be worth the money even though it’s technically dated.
I started with 6 S1 Pros', got a Carbon X1 recently. I'm working my way up to a 2.4 LDO kit.
I built a voron 2.4 last year (350) it was fun, and I enjoy doing my own mods, and taking community mods. I cnced my own doors out of black acm with pc windows with proper hinges, and berd air cooling...community mods to add ge5c bearing mod + euklid probe. It's been fun. I built and designed other machines, a 4 headed independent axis printer and a giant delta. And recently switched most to canbus, voron included. You really don't get the most out of the voron with heavy cable chains. Umbilical with can toolhead gets to the top of the acceleration chart. I've had the bambu x1c with the ams for a couple of weeks and it's great. I received the stretch goal with the nozzle pack, and the proprietary aspect of things bothers me a little since I have a custom print monitor for all my machines and can't add the bambu to it, there is no api to get print progress etc. It is wrong to say the flsun v400 has more build space than bambu, the max square it can print is 210x210x350 ish. Since FL sun lies on the max build height a true build height of the delta is end of the cylinder not the cone, I built my own delta, I did the math where the cone starts. Bambu is 256 cubed. I agree with what you did, get the bambu, build a voron, but if I had to build a voron, I'd go with a trident, I think the fixed gantry can allow for higher print speeds with higher accelerations.
Excellent review(s), very informative. I'm pleased that the printer market is finally maturing, with very reasonable prices for very capable machines. That being said, I'm constantly impressed by the "little" brother of the V400, the FLSun Super Racer. At about $450 retail shipped, it's an outstanding value, and the print quality has been really good. Sure, it's got its downsides, and I spent the first three days fine-tuning a Simplify3d profile, but now it's become my main machine. Fast, quiet, and large enough for most of what I make, plus the filament detection works really well. I'm not saying it's quite the speed demon that the three reviewed printers are, but it's darned fast compared with about anything else on the market, and at that price for me it's a no-brainer.
I have the V400. I wonder how much better the X1 is?
@@foam27 Now that the P1P is out (or out soon), it's going to be a real strong competitor to things like my "mighty" Super Racer. I'm not experiencing buyer's remorse, but not far from it. If I had $700 to spend today on a printer (which I don't, and can't justify), the P1P has a good chance of getting the "go" button.
Always happy to help!
Thanks for joining and helping with the "X1 Carbon build"! :-D
I’m about 1350hrs print time on my x1 carbon and it’s still running great. Only had to swap out clogged hotends a couple times. I’ve had to pull apart the extruder and clean it out because certain exotic filaments can clog up the gears in it. Biggest issue I’ve had is a failure to extract filament error but I fixed that with a 3d printed long elbow at the toolhead. I’m thinking I might replace some of the feeders on my AMS because I’ve ran a bunch of cf-pla through it and it’s really rough on the ams.haha I’m pretty sure that most the problems I’ve had on this printer were self created from trying out super hard filaments, if I only ran pla or abs it wouldn’t of had any issues except for the filament extraction thing. Carbon rods and bearings are fine, standard cleaning and maintenance.
I'd love to build a Voron 2.4 for the fact that I love technical things and building things but right now I need to be satisfied with my Ender 3 V2 which is quite slow.
Just wanted to say that the scripting and editing of this video was really well done! Also perfect transitions between different topics about the printers! Good job👍
love my voron, but id consider a x1 honesly as im more about making parts, not fiddling, but the was a fun adventure and quick for heatup/prototype prints :)
Nice comparison! I’ve got the X1CC and building a Voron v2.4r2. Now I want the FLSUN too 😂😂😂
Hey Marcel, thank you! I am not sure if I would buy the V400 if wouldn't have a review unit, but considering the fact that it's Klipper out-of-the-box and that it has loads of potential: Most probably yes! Do it :-D
I have been using the v400 for about a week and it’s amazingly quiet, even at top speed. I’ve gone through abs, pls, and tpu all with fantastic results. Enemy printed a tpu cal cube in 9 mins at 200 mm/s. A future tutorial on shaping tuning to get a little more detail will be nice but for most prints I do it’s not missed at all.
The reason to build a voron 2.4 is the combination of flexibility and large size. Flexibility as in, more materials, hotter bed, hotter nozzle etc., and large as in, 350mm cube build volume, Nothing else can match that (very powerful) combination. It's also very fast if you dial it in.
Incredibly good, useful and in depth comparison.
Thank you so much!
Thanks for this informative video. It always helps to get reviews before buying a product. I prefer going for Axis Business Technologies because they offer consultation so you can make a well informed decision. They also offer printer service as well.
I'm glad it was you who made this video. I don't know if I'd trust anyone else's opinions to be unbiased.
this was exactly the video i was looking for thanks!!
Thank YOU for watching!
@@247printing quick question would you happen to know what a good webcam/streaming camera for the 3D printer is good/useful for the v400 in particular.
I did it the hard way. Printed all the ABS parts for the LDO 2.4 on my Sidewinder X1 and enjoy the nice ABS smell over weeks :-) but the building experience of the Voron was worth it.
Wow, glad to read that!
What did you do to print ABS successfully on the X1? I've had some troubles, mainly with warping. About to pull the trigger on a tent style enclosure if it will help with warping on higher temp materials.
Thank you for the comparison. Your insights on the max height on the v400 are spot on. I knew it would not be the full 410mm in height but am surprised at how much it loses on the sides.
If I had not got it at the pre-order price I would have to seriously consider my options. Thank fully I got a great price and it is a good printer.
Oh don't take my quick sketch to scale (could calculated easily though), but yes it's definitely not a cylinder (like advertised). That Davy stopped at 370mm with "move out of range"
@@tonykyle2655 I’ll address this again to FLSUN - I think my opinion on this was very clear in the video. Thanks for your inputs 👌
hello, could it be that the relationship with this area loss did not give information? print frames, how many cm can I use round or square prints? Sampling How much does it allow me to use as the maximum height and table area for products such as 25 x 25 cm square flower pots? I'm undecided to pre-order the printer :)
@@BB-cs5qc my unit is capped at 360mm on Z (height). so the print area is 300 diameter by 360 in height.
@@tonykyle2655 When I want to print a square 210x210 product, the table area can be printed up to 360mm, so I understand correctly, right? Or does it get lost from the table area as it rises? I want to print products such as flower pots with a base of 21 x 21 cm and a height of 25 cm, do you mind?
I've been building a 350mm ldo v2.4 for the past few months. I've printed / am printing (down to the last few parts) my voron parts on my slightly modified creality ender 3 (all metal heatbrake, bltouch, pei springsteel sheet, raspberry pi, klipper, accelerometer for input shaping, duct taped cardboard box enclosure with a small hole cut out for my webcam so i can see inside while printing). I've found that if I print the parts I need one manual module in advance, (for example, printing the z motor assemblies while building and squaring the frame), I print all the parts I need and nothing I don't while giving myself lots of options for modifications while I'm going through my build. (very pleasurable). I've been at it for several months, but I have only set aside a few hours a week for printer building, as I've been doing the building on stream (and the printing in between). So far I clearly can't say anything about the quality of prints or anything, because my printer isn't yet complete, but the design seems very well thought out for the most part, the assembly instructions have been quite good, and any time I've had any questions not answered by the manual or the LDO documentation, i've been able to ask the voron discord which is a WONDERFUL resource of helpful community members who are there at all hours of the day or night and they haven't let me down once. I am closing in on the end of my build now, just getting started on the electronics section which is the final hardware section of the build (the last is software, first print, and calibration). I'm extremely happy with LDO's organization, documentation, quality of parts, and the fact that they include many spare backup fasteners for when I inevitably drop screws into the dark black void in my lab heh. if you're interested in building the voron, the LDO kit is well worth the slightly higher price point vs. other kits... they even include sub-kits for common voron mods like klicky, the nevermore air filter / air cicrulation system, purgebucket/nozzle scrubber, led lighting, and included a free upgrade kit for all the things you need to build the new stealthburner toolhead (which was a really fun build). HOWEVER, if you lack the paitence or will to build things with your hands (i.e. install thousands of screws, run belts, build bearing packs/assemble idlers, etc. etc.) a voron is probably not for you. it's very well documented, especially the LDO kit, but you must will it into existence devoting some of your life energy to get the job done, from literally a pile of parts. it's a little like buying a car from an auto parts store instead of a car dealership.
I’m running a similarly modded ender3 and cannot get reliable abs prints. Do you mind sharing settings/ filament details?
As an artist who prints his own sculptures I'm glad I went with the Bambu X1
i voronized my ender 5 (CoreXY Mod, Stealthburner, 230V 500 Watts 6mm Aluminum Bed, Super PINDA for leveling) and it works perfectly at 250-300mm/s with input shaping. Got it that way since January and i dont need to think about anything. I start a print, and walk away and i can be certain that it comes out just perfect. Even Nylon and Polycarbonate just work :)
What speed do you print the nylon and polycarbonate?
@@La-di nylon 120mm/s at max, PC depending on the layer time between 80 and 180mm/s
Schönes Video und schön zusammengefasst am Ende!
Hallo Rene, danke für's vorbeischauen und für das Lob 🤩
I have an FLSun Super Racer and I love it, but I would make your choice as well. X1 Bambu to print the parts for the Voron 👌
I'd like to try a Super Racer on Klipper! Maybe some day...
Gutes Video, sympathisch rüber gebracht 👍🙂
Dankeschön!
Wow, I can’t imagine how much time and effort went into this video. Great job!
Additional 👍 for “no voronty” 🤣
Oh wow. I wish I had seen this before ordering the V400. Oh well. It gives me an excuse to save up for the Bambu Carbon (like I really needed one). Great video and can’t wait to check out your other content. So glad I found you!
Hey Thanks a lot for stopping by 😍 You’ll have fun with the V400, it’s a cool and enjoyable machine. I bet that calibration and settings will be optimized- maybe I can also contribute to that - it has GREAT potential for more and it’s already good !
@@247printing please make a video showing how to make it better i just ordered one last month waiting to get it in thank you
It’s on my list, bit I can’t promise that I find the time for it in the near future
@@247printing hopefully should i be worried if I’m trying to print nylon in the v400
I returned my V400
I should mention that Bambustudio 1.3 has now released which adds access to timelapses, reloading, instancing on multiples of the same parts and more. They appear to have a full dev team working on it. I imagine this review just barely missed this update.
Also, separately, Vorons are cool, but id love to see you review something like abig Ratrig VCore. It seems like an option that requires less time to build than a voron for a more customizable enclosed printer that even is able to have a tool changer added to it with third party plans..
I installed 1.3 during the final editing editing of the video - unfortunately to late include anything about it - nevertheless: wouldn’t have changed my statement concerning “great software” on Bambu side 👍
And yes: I built the 300mm V-Core-3 and it’s hell of a performance machine which I love, but the kit and build experience was worse than Voron / LDO Kit. The 500mm VC3.1 is on my wish list…
@@247printing Thats interesting to hear. I always assumed the simpler design would mean an easier build. I do wonder if its due to the lovely kit put together by LDO or if its the actual build itself that was worse.
If you ever get around to the 500mm, Id love to see how difficult or hard putting a tool changer on it is, as I've been daydreaming about perhaps building one to complement my X1C as sort of a better XL.
@@247printing i can attest to the difficulty of ratrig builds. I have a 500mm vcore 3, and it took dozens of hours to get running. It's a solid workhorse though, i run mine at 400mm/s 20k accel.
I have been working on building a Voron to a custom 400x400x450 for about a year. So first I had to get my E3pro to reliably, and accurately print ABS.
Then our household income took about a 25% hit for the year. So my kit purchase was put on hold. Now that a friend has his X1C I can get him to whip out the prints that I need to finish. And soon have the last of what I need to start assembly.
To anyone in the same slow boat as me "DO NOT PRINT PARTS IN ADVANCE"
At least not till you have nearly everything on your BOM. And download all the needed files and label them with a date.
So many changes happened while I was building slow that I did not even realize that some of my first parts are obsolete before ever even getting all the parts in the original BOM.
Long story short. Buy a kit, or be prepared to buy and print something or other repeatedly.
As someone on a budget I'd consider a FLSU Super Racer that goes for 330e when on sale and klipperize it with the usual minor modifications (cooling, bowden / DD, nozzle). Eventually you can get some realistic 250mm/s speed for some 400e, even better if you already have a Klipper server.
Hands down V400. My 1st printer. Joy of my life now. 7 months in.
Modified many aspects by down loading (tweaking) and printing the enclosure and designed my own filament holders. I have a dedicated workshop and the machine sits on a 2'x18" table on wheels. Power supplied from above allows me to move it anywhere. Added unique design for a bolt on base holding 14 spools of filament on the top of the machine. Very easy to change. I installed a constant USB HEPA air filtration inside the enclosure. Room temp ranges from 70 - 80 and humidity ranges from 35 to 47. Have had zero problems so far. Quiet, moves out of my way and the birds show up to watch it run through the window. Using Klipper pad I was able to push it bounce between 900 to 1200mms for printing good angle brackets for a project. I watch & control the machine power and speeder pad from 3 separate locations on the property. Having fun doing so too.
Perfect conclusion
That video is one of the best videos that i watched in the last months
OMG, thank you so much - that made my day!
Here's a thought after reading many of the comments below: most people are not cross shopping these 3d printers.
Bambu: I don't care what it costs but I want to print without reading directions. Maybe a 1 page quick start that mostly tells me I bought the best printer. I ordered from my iPhone 14 Pro.
Voron 2.4: I *really* don't care what it costs, and I am not counting my hours 'cause this is my therapy. I ordered from my phone but I am not sure what brand phone it really is after loading so many custom ROMs from XDA on it.
FLsun v400: Speed, speed, speed, speed, speed. Oh yeah, speed. My phone has a cracked screen so I ordered from my liquid cooled Ryzen 9 laptop.
Lmfao 🤣 I died after the "not sure what phone it is because of too many custom roms from XDA"
I’m hollering 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 best comment so far 🤣 my screen is cracked and all I’ve been leaning towards is the V400 for speeeeeed🤣
I have the FLSUN Super Racer, with lots of mods, real klipper and enclosure, real volcano etc.. etc.. It is an amazing machine. 10k accel and printing at 600 no problems with any material i through at it. It's crazy cheap now too, with the Speeder Pad and some little improvements it's a wonderful machine ;-) I am looking at a Core XY and can't decide........
Can you connect the V400 to a device running the "normal" Klipper and try calibrating it? Would be interesting to know what the actual limits of the hardware are. Great video as always 👍
I'm now considering a larger printer since my home made delta printer is kind of small (Mini Kossel clone). The Bambu P1S at a local store impresses me, but i like to build things. , Your video offers a great comparison between the 3 options. I think i lean towards building the Voron now. One thing I notice from my home made delta printer is that it has some weird noise when the print head moves while printing. The noise works change depending on if the printer makes a circle or a straight line, and noise is also different when the print head is at the center or edge of the bed. Not sure if it's because of my build or because of vibration from the arms, the springs on the arms. The same steper controllers would be totally quiet on a reprap machine. Wondering if the FL400 had similar problem? This noise makes me want to build the Voron instead of modifying the delta for a bigger bed and bigger & longer arms. What do you think? Thanks
Thanks a lot for the detailed info on those printers. Could you please tell me what probes you are using on your Voron? In the video at 5:32 you mention "Clicky probe" and a second one. What is the second one? I could not understand.
Thanks.
Thank you! It's a "Pepperl&Fuchs" inductive probe = "Pinda" (Prusa) = "Vinda" (vonwange). Very good!
The most anticipated video in 2022!
Danke / Thank you Christoph!
Great video 👍
I bought a new QIDI I-mateS to be able to print parts for V0.1 and V2.4 (both LDO) which I was building practically at the same time. It was an undertaking worthy of epic poems. I had no idea about assembling a printer, installing software, fine tuning, slicers... A total naïve who went on an adventure. I learned an incredible amount in the process and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. Now I'm waiting for my third LDO kit, the Trident which should arrive any day. The parts for it have long been printed on the older Voron brothers, the software is ready for installation, and I am waiting for delivery at the door with screwdrivers and SD cards in my hands. I gave QIDI to a friend.
One thing that I believe is very important is support from the manufacturer. I have had three previous printers and the support was good for all of them. I have had the V400 for over a month. So far the support has been rather poor. I asked about nozzles for abrasive materials and I was told to use the regular nozzle and not to worry. As far as I can tell it is probably brass and if that is correct it will be trashed by carbon/nylon. They would not tell me what it was made of. I recently had a problem when I tried to recheck the bed leveling with their probe. I had no trouble with the probe initially but when I recently retried it Klipper would fail and I have to hard boot the machine. So currently I can not check the leveling. I ordered another probe on line and will see if it works. I emailed support from Flsun and so far I have been ghosted. Yes the machine is cool and fast. The quality is not what I get on my slower Prusa MK3S+ but for certain things the fast speed is nice. I just wish that I was able to get better responsiveness from Flsun. The information about tuning the machine was very interesting since Flsun does not make mention that at all.
Quality wise, slow is the key. Try to slow down your outer layer to atleast 40.
As per nozzle, its a consumable, you can replace it with diamondback and never have to worry what materials you use.
My bad suggestion, if it ever goes bad, order one in amazon. Swap the parts and return it. That's the only way I can guarantee that I get my moneys worth if the machine ever brakes sooner than expected, that's my last resort incase they ghosted me..
I bought the V400 and it arrives next week. I hope I haven't made a mistake. My main appeal with V400 was the vertical size, as I have more room in that direction than horizontally. I also wanted wifi instead of SD cards. The main reason why I wanted a 3D printer was to be able to print shoe lasts from TPU.
How has it been performing
@@michaellopez3681 Well, I've had to do A LOT of calibrations but overall I'm fairly happy I got this. There are some issues though, and my main issue is that the Klipper is not actually Klipper but an FLSun restricted version. There are other gripes, like not having input shaping, insanely difficult maintenance of the printing head, and so on. Next week I plan to flash the whole system and install original Klipper.
my post above.
Hands down V400. My 1st printer. Joy of my life now. 7 months in.
Modified many aspects by down loading (tweaking) and printing the enclosure and designed my own filament holders. I have a dedicated workshop and the machine sits on a 2'x18" table on wheels. Power supplied from above allows me to move it anywhere. Added unique design for a bolt on base holding 14 spools of filament on the top of the machine. Very easy to change. I installed a constant USB HEPA air filtration inside the enclosure. Room temp ranges from 70 - 80 and humidity ranges from 35 to 47. Have had zero problems so far. Quiet, moves out of my way and the birds show up to watch it run through the window. Using Klipper pad I was able to push it bounce between 900 to 1200mms for printing good angle brackets for a project. I watch & control the machine power and speeder pad from 3 separate locations on the property. Having fun doing so too.
I love my machine. 7 months in nw.
I also cut and glued to my spare build plate a piece of Garolite (G10 Fr4 1/16" I think). sticks better and bottom prints smoother. Let it cool and they pop right off.
Let me know how your re-install of Klipper goes. Not sure I need to but have never done a flash or used Klipper before. Some people say it is better to do a full setup. Not sure why I need to SSH (what ever that is).
Good luck buddy.
I was looking into getting fast print machines so I can bring trinkets to reptile shows my fiancée is selling at to make a few extra bucks. All except the Voron we’re on my short list.
I’ll have to check back in once I really know what I want/need from an FDM printer.
I printed my parts for my 2.4r2 on my modified Ender 3. precision was not relly that good, so I had to clean the parts and sometimes sand and file them to spec. But my 2.4 works and I love it. My Ender printed itself into retirement.
This story is so cool and sad at the same time - thanks for sharing 🤟
as someone who loves tinkering, i'm absolutely gonna pick up one of the voron kits eventually.....
Top, danke für das großartige Video 😬👍
Grüß dich, danke dir für's Vorbeischauen und Kommentieren!
@@247printing selbstverständlich ☺️