Exactly. Ive never understood being too loyal to one brand. We the customer should want companies to compete as much as possible. So we get a better product and a better deal.
@AverageGIJoeOutdoorsOk...not sure how you can eatch HO explain why that's a potential problem, and then act like it's a terrible issue. The HS Produkt Echelon is a functionally great gun, but they need to redesign a piece of plastic that covers the bottom of the magazine (something that some people will replace anyway). It's not a knock against the gun in the slightest. I'm saying this as someone who does not like Springfield, actively recommends people avoid them.
@mikethekidd_ Yeah, not sure how he failed to listen to what HO was saying about the mag baseplates. You either make them easy to remove or you make them a pain in the dick go remove. Hopefully they find a better baseplate design.
Chris please check through the box thoroughly for a little baggie with 4 screws. Look under the plastic tray where the gun lock is. Also check the manual for which screws to use with your optic
Bought one of the non optic versions for my wife a couple weeks ago. We both really like it. Put 200 rds thru it between us. No failures and it was accurate at the distance of 15 yards we were shooting at. It shot point of aim for both of us.
Thanks for sharing your first shots and impressions - definitely piqued my interest in this new addition! Keep up the great work, looking forward to more reviews like this.
I’ve had this firearm about 6 weeks now, put about 350 rods through it and also allowed the employees at the local gun store to try it out, everyone liked it, because we know it’s a CCW, and it’s great for that, conceals well, carries comfortably, and less snappy than Hellcat or P365; it’s also very easy to take down and field strip. If I wanted to shoot 50 yards with 4” groups, this ain’t the pistol in buying, but if I want to pull and put rounds into an attacker 10 yards away in a quick fashion, this or a Shield Plus is 100% what I want. I’ve never had an issue with accuracy when I was honest with its designed intentions.
That is a great way to frame that narrative, "honest with its designed intentions". The only intent I have with using this weapon is to do exactly what you said, draw quickly and shoot accurately and rapidly at a 10 (3-15 too) yard target. 🍻
I'll be looking forward to the inevitable follow-up review. Seems like this gun has potential, just needs a bit of polishing. I agree, though; it should be polished from the factory.
@@cjdebono8811That’s funny, because my sister’s Hellcat needed about the same POA as Outlaw’s Reflex. Maybe having one anecdotal account of a pistol doesn’t mean jack ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I got a Holosun optic on it and got a holster and spare mag carrier for it from Muddy River, no disappointment. I sight the optics at 15 yds and it was driving nails at 15, 10 and 7 have not try 25 yet. Put about 200 rds thru it, no malfunction.
I love your videos; they live up to your name. When something goes wrong, both you and us(the viewers)no that the problem is not you. It's always the gun and your sense of humor is the best. Laughed my ass off on this one. Thanks for a most enjoyable video and I sincerely mean that
The FN Reflex should come with two sets of screws - 2 pan head and 2 flat head. This is on page 40 of the owner's manual. It is set up only for optics that take the Shield RMSc footprint: Holosun 407/507k, Romeo Zero, Swampfox Sentinel, etc. There are no plates because you are supposed to mount it directly to the slide.
Love my Reflex. Had failure to feed issues when new but FN fixed it right up quickly. It shoots a little low left also but not bad. Nothing like yours. Thanks for the review
Coming back to this video 7 months later after first getting the springfield hellcat, and eventually getting the canik mete SF (subcompact). What I learned from those two guns: the hellcat size is great for me, but the trigger pull is so heavy that it really does reduce my accuracy. The canik mete SF trigger is phenomenal, but so lightweight that I grew concerned about it as a carry gun. I think this FN may bridge the gap with a longer trigger pull but a lighter pull than the hellcat.
I too like your honest reviews and was ready to add this pistol to my collection but will not. I will keep my Sig P365 as my primary carry gun with my S&W Shield in .45 as my alternate carry gun. Thx again.
@HonestOutlaw....... 💥💥💥There should be a clear small ziplock bag with 4 screws and a tool..... Mine was under the plastic Trey..... Hope this helps..... My eps carry went on with no problem... No plate needed....💥💥💥 The accuracy problem is crazy.... Mine was dead nuts accurate at 25 yards...
How in the world did this particular firearm pass its factory accuracy test? I was pretty stoked about this one, but not so much anymore. Thanks for the unbiased review.
Just bought one and have the same grouping problem. However, I found a video that addressed shooting low and left. The instructor had you take a regular grip on target then stick your pinky, ring finger and middle finger towards the target and then firing. My results were that I no longer shot low left but was just an inch left and level with the bullseye at 7 yards.
Chris, I have an update for you regarding the sights on the Reflex. I just got off the phone with FN Customer Service and was told that there was an error in the manual regarding proper positioning of the front sight. The manual illustrates the top of the front sight centered on the target just like usual. The Rep said that this was in error, that the dot in the front sight should be placed over the center of the target in what he termed a "Combat Hold" and that corrections were being made to the manual. He advised not to file the front sight as the tritium insert was close to the top of the sight and its purchase may be jeopardized. I hope to try this sight alignment out soon and I'll give you feedback on what I get. If you have time to try it with your Reflex, I'd like to hear what you experience.
Full review with an optic please! Would love to get your final thoughts soon because I got an itch that needs to be scratched! 😂 Love your content. Thank you!
Know this sounds crazy but change out the pinky extension on the 11round mag put the flat base plate on it and it’s a nail driver mine was 3inchs low 2-4inchs left flat base plate and it’s dead on my hold of aim tuck pinky under the firearm PLEASE TRUST AND TRY THIS IS CRAZY PUT WORKS LIKE A DREAM
For anyone interested, i own one and did have the same issue, but if you dont mind shelling out for a red dot, it turns into a pretty great and surprisingly accurate micro 9
Just picked one up and the example I purchased has a phenomenal trigger, with the pull weight being good and the rest being short! It’s better than my 365 and only comparable to the Hellcat I have.
I just grabbed one today and threw it in layaway. I agree the trigger is great on the example I tried, though the reset was longer than I would like. I also worked at the store I found the gun and had a customer come in once before complaining about the accuracy of a 509 he owned and the gripe was similar to the review low shooting, I would say it has to account for the FN having combat hold and not center hold.
I like your honesty! Could you give a demonstration on how to tap the sights & sand them? If not, what type of tool did you tap with? Have you found a holster for it since this video came out & if so, what brand?👍👊
Love your analysis and honesty! Great show. I own a FN503 which I bought after shooting Glocks and Sig P365. I love my 503 for it’s small footprint and conceal-ability however the 503 only holds 6 standard and 8 with extended mag. But you are correct both have long trigger pulls. The new version has a higher capacity mag which is nice as well as a rail for accessories and red dot which the 503 doesn’t have. Grips are similar. Looks like it could be a nice option.
I work at a gun shop. We had a customer bring one in for Cerakote that he bought less than 24 hours ago from us. It had started rusting after only one day of carry.
I wonder if they did the internal hammer design just to have a feature that sets themselves apart from the competition. If they were to come out with a striker fired variant with shorter trigger pull/reset it would be a much more enticing imo.
FN recommends Holosun K series or a Shield. None of the screws included with either of them fit so I ended up using the screws that held the optics plate in place if memory serves. I didn't like the 407K because it obscures the rear sight due to it's height from the floor plate so I bought a Shield too. It has a lower profile from the floor plate so I like it much better. I never shot it with just the iron sights so I wasn't too concerned about them, after watching this I miked the front sights and they were indeed off center just a bit so I punch adjusted them. The rear sights were aligned fine. I'm going to the range today to put another 200-300 rounds through it BECAUSE out of the box, after installing the Shield and after cleaning it and re-lubing it I experienced failures to feed on multiple occasions through about 50 rounds. FN CS (who I can't say enough good things about) told me the gun has a break-in period. OK, even though I own multiple FN's in various configs and have never had to break one in to get it to properly feed, I shot 300 rounds of the recommended 124 grain bullets through it the next day and the FTF's did reduce dramatically although not completely. To be fair some of those were reloads that I load myself that work fine in every other 9mm I own. I like the fact that it's a hammer gun, I LOVE the feel of it, ergonomically it's one of the best feeling pistols I have simply because it's slim and light. As I've gotten older I've found it harder to carry a 4 inch barrel pistol so I really like the way the Reflex feels while carrying it AIWB. It's almost unnoticeable. I love it's accuracy, especially at 3 -10 yards, that you can hit a target at 75 yards is impressive as hell. I can barely see a target at 25 yards but I done got the oldness. Sorry for the long winded narrative. Love your videos, I'm a big fan. Thanks for putting them up.
I just picked up a Reflex. Hits 5" low and 3" left out of the box. Ordered and installed a Holoson EPS Carry, but have yet to zero the red dot. I think the included plate and screws are for the RMR footprint. No plate required to mount the EPS Carry. Re-use the screws that came in the cover plate. I have experienced several 'failure to feed' issues. I've only put 200 rounds through it so far and 8 or 9 failures to return to battery. I've got a long weekend coming up and I'll put another 2-3 hundred rounds through it. I really want to like this pistol and am disappointed that a firearm from a reputable manufacturer like would arrive with these issues. Perhaps I need to give up on the internal hammer and great trigger (and I do like the trigger) and go back to my first choice of the Sig P365.
Please do a full review! I keep going back and forth whether to pick this one up... Reliability is king for me. Obviously having the sights on and aligned is highly important too 😅
This thing seems to ring steel every single time you pull the trigger, but with this kinda accuracy I'd rather just go buy a cr920, SIG or 43x cuz atleast they're gonna shoot straight out of the factory every time.
If you want an alternative I recommend you checking out the IWI Masada slim. Honest outlaw does a good review of it and it’s about $150 cheaper and sights are dead nuts on. I was hitting in the 9,8, and 7 ring on a B27 target from 70 yards. Absolutely zero misses
Same problem with my Shield plus optic ready. Have a regular Shield Plus with three white dots sight and enjoyed it so decided to get one to put a red dot on. I shoot dead on at 10 yards with the 3 dot sights then took the optic ready and shoot off to the left side 4-5 inches. Not a problem after putting a dot on but if the dot ever goes down and I need to use irons in a self defense going to be shooting left.
I would be mildly tempted. I'm generally a big fan of FN's pistols, and I imagine I would like this. At the same time, I already carry one of their full size pistols, and I also have a P365 for when I need something smaller, so I don't really need a micro 9 from FN just for the sake of having another FN pistol. I would absolutely be down to try it out if my range picks one up for rental. On an unrelated note, I love Mrs. Outlaw's nails in this video. I'm not usually a fan of lime green anything, but that Skittle green looks really nice.
Fyi... the screws on the cover plate on the slide work perfectly with the Holosun 407k pattern. Gun is awesome with perfect reliability through 500 rounds.
Yeah, it was just plain bad that "The World's Most Battle-Proven Firearms" came with a crooked rear sight. Overall though, I think on the later review you're gonna enjoy the heck out of it with the dot. Much more precise aiming. The EPS carry will direct mount to the slide without a mount, it shares the same 4/507k footprint if that may help any. Tactical Development's pro ledge with a Tlr7-sub Glock is already made for the FN Reflex too. Good review, even with the bad. Cheers.
The triggers on these things must be wildly inconsistent, i picked up two of them and the triggers were nothing like you showed and talked about, no sponge, they were crisp, but had a long reset. Too long. Glad I saw this review, never know which one you will get
I was going to buy this but it was too similar to my sig macro so I decided agains it. I didn't know it was a internal hammer tho so im considering it even more.
My Hellcat sights were low too but at least centered. The tritium stayed in but the luminous ring around it came out during a class so I fixed the problem with an XS Big Dot set that were on for elevation. I rarely leave home without it now.
I held one at a gun show last weekend. The 15 rd mag has sharp corners on it. I had high hopes for it with the internal hammer, but couldn’t get past the uncomfortable grip.
One thing I'd like to add. Just because Chris doesn't like accuracy doesn't mean you would too. I was testing a bunch of carry guns including a p365 and Hellcat. If just went from what the internet told me, I would've just bought the p365, but when I shot it, she shot like dogshit. Now, before ya say it's a skill issue, I put down a group the size of a sticky note using the Hellcat. Same target, same distance, same day even. Just goes to show how personal a decision it is to choose a handgun.
Chris, I made it out to the range this morning and came up with a sighting method that works for me. Per the FN Customer Support Rep, I placed the red dot on the front sight over the center of the target but instead aligning the two white dots on the rear sight with the red dot, I centered the red dot along the top edge of the rear sight so that the upper half of the red dot was over the top of the rear sight and the lower half was below the top of the rear sight. Goofy, I know, but it put the rounds right where I wanted them in elevation. To correct for the rounds hitting to the left of target center, I modified my grip on the gun. As you know, there isn't a lot of real estate on the handle so getting my left/support hand where I normally have it wasn't working. What I did instead was apply a bit of pressure to the right up by the trigger guard in addition to and instead of simply pulling straight back. It helped a lot BUT, I do not believe that a pistol that exists solely as a personal defense weapon should expect to be held and sighted any differently from the way I've been shooting for the past few decades. IF I have to use this it will be because of a mortal concern and I may very well need to get rounds off fast and accurately relying on practiced muscle memory. I saw a third TH-cam review of the Reflex yesterday and the shooter was experiencing the exact same round placement issues you, me and two other reviewers experienced. In my never-to-be-humble opinion, FN needs to address this by, at least, offering to adjust the sights to the owner's specifications. I'm sorry to say that I should have purchased the model with the optics cut but who would have thought that such large errors with a target only 21 feet away would prove to be such an issue?
I haven’t been interested in any FN product since they discontinued the Hi-Power. That’s a premium price for a plastic pistol. Thanks for the excellent review.
@@zee-fr5kw I’ve seen that but it’s gotten mixed reviews. I’m waiting for a friend to buy one so I can try before I buy. I have several antique FNs and I love them.
Friend of mine had the same low and left problem with his new Hellcat, and I had the same problem with a Mossberg MC2C. This is why it’s always important to test the accuracy of your guns before your life depends on it
Think I'll be doing the same. FTF issues and low/left as well. Frustrating! Going to adjust the rear sight and run a few more rounds before contacting FN. Haven't experienced this with CZ, Walther or S&W handguns.
Chris, I bought a Reflex about a month ago, took it to the range and put 100 rounds through it and it grouped low and slightly left. I put up a new target at 21 feet and really concentrated. My five-shot group was 3 1/2" low and 3/4" left. I took a picture of the target, gave the group distance from center and stated that Federal HST 124 grain had been used. I returned the pistol to FN the next day requesting a shorter front sight and windage adjustment. To their credit, FN returned the pistol in just four days. However, they made zero changes to my pistol but included a range target with five shots grouped tightly around the center using the same 124 grain ammo and fired from the same distance. There was a brief comment written on the target stating, "POA, POI". After seeing you and your wife getting pretty much the same results, I will get back in touch with them. FN apparently wants me to adapt to their set up whereas I want the sights configured to the way that I shoot. Considering that many firearms of all types come with adjustable sights, I don't think I am being unreasonable and other than the sights, I like the gun. I also have an FN FNS-40C that I bought a few years ago and it was what influenced me to buy the Reflex. SMH, FN.
Good review. Honestly after watching videos on whatever the "newest & best" flavor of the month, I remain satisfied with my Glock 19, 26, and 43. They work well without a lot of hassle. Reliable and no drama.
Yeah I have a 365xl that is great. It's been 100% from day 1. I'm still thinking about a glock 19/26 combo though. I mean the 26 while a little chunky Is a do all edc then I'd throw the 19 on the nightstand. Glock mags are everywhere so I would never have a problem putting hands on them.
OP, the 19 has been on my side since 97’. I don’t get why people want or need something newer just to have the new thing. Waiting on a custom holster and buying magazines, sights, spare parts…etc. for these guns doesn’t make sense to me
You have already taken this out of the running with your review as to being a future purchase. I was really liking the videos on it till this. Trigger is everything when a guy is 5'6 and 138 pounds. This just does not stack up against other carry pistols. NOW get to reviewing the new Shadow 2. When you do review that pistol we need to know about what safeties it has plus a size comparison and how it feels as a carry being that it is so heavy. I will be checking every day till you get to review it. Cheers man. Someday when I ride up by you I will have to meet ya for a beer. Looking at a ride to Toppling Goliath in the near future!
I've always wanted a newer FN with a red dot mount...but I live in CA and haven't done so yet. I wish you couldve reviewed it with a red dot installed. Major props to your Kentucky windage skills. I had to do a rifle qual as a Marine in Guam pre typhoon with ridiculous wind and rain. Only 2 of us in the platoon qualified. At 500 I was aiming at the target to the right.
I think with U shaped sights, you have to align the top of the U and the middle of front sight post Dot together. That’s when the hellcat Pro Manuel said.
S&W Shield Plus Still Best in Class. Looks like Apex needs to make a Trigger Kit for the FN Reflex. Just like they did for the M&P S&W Shield replacing that Henge Trigger.
@@ironmikehallowween had a $600 hellcat that was garbage in comparison and my wife has a sig p365 x comp that cost $900. The shield plus beats both of them and I paid $500 for the PC version. Used to have a standard that was also better. Hell even my Canik MC9 was more expensive and the only upsides it has is an extra couple rounds, a light rail, an optics cut and a cleaner trigger. Not as dependable as the shield plus though
@colosim5507 yeah, I'm not caring for the Hellcat either. I rented one at the range and thought I would like it well enough, so I bought a Pro. Trigger slap, heavy trigger pull, just as snappy as it's 3 inch counterpart, and for some reason my accuracy is just trash with the gun. There are things I could do to fix it, I did polish parts and get rid of most of the trigger slap. But do I want to spend another $500 on the gun to make it almost as good as my CZ P01 that cost the same and required *nothing* to shoot well? Nah...
@@cavalieroutdoors6036 for all the innovation, it’s the second snappiest handgun I’ve ever fired (LCP being first). It’s difficult to be accurate with the snappiness, stiff trigger, and quick acquisition sights. The pro did get the grip right. The Echelon grip is almost identical and was the main selling point for me to get one to run IDPA
Guy at the range let me shoot one of these today. Ergonomics we’re great, not snappy at all, and the trigger felt nice. The reset was rough though. Wouldn’t replace my shield plus PC or MC9 (w/ post-release recoil spring and fixed extractor spring)
@@charlieboi6370It's not...what are you talking about? The MC9 had issues that got swept under the rug, but once it's fixed it's exactly what people expected. A small Canik that has a trigger like a PPQ/PDP.
@@charlieboi6370I sold my MC9 owning it for a week worst gun I ever bought and I feel stupid that I thought I was replacing my Elite Sc with it gun couldn’t go 1 mag without a malfunction
@@brandonUwanawich954 had similar problems at first. After breaking it in, I was still having about a 2% RTB issue. After Century sent a free lighter recoil spring and lighter/shorter extraction kit springs, it runs like a dream
I don’t know how you shoot those little pistols so well with hands your size. I have been trying to see how you wrap your fingers around these little things. My fingers are just too long for them. I just gave up on them, except for rare occasions, and carry a full-size pistol. It’s no big deal really. It makes life much easier. Thanks for the video.
I have a 503 and it shoot really nice (besides a round falling out when you chamber and reload the round). I wonder if they were trying to make a budget friendly version with this gun.
Like I said in your short video, I’m a die hard P365 fan. I carry appendix in a small leather holster. I was hoping for a great review, not a so so review, because I really wanted an excuse to buy one. My concern w/the FN was carrying appendix with a single action hammer fired gun w/o a safety. Seems you have that concern with the P365. That being said, I would love to see a comparison between the FN & the P365 and if possible address this issue with both guns. Your thoughts if the gun would be a candidate for a thumb safety. As always, great video and very informative.
Love your reviews and appreciate your honesty these other guntubers have no idea what they are talking about they just review for clickbait. Please do a comparison on the FN Reflex and Canik MC9
Thank you so much for doing this for you. I definitely do not want one of these now. I’ve tried so many subcompact firearms and have not been thrilled so far. I like my Kimber micro nine the best. I know it lacks capacity but shoot ability is incredible. is there anything else that you would recommend along these lines
The more offers, the better, I love when companies have to compete with each other for our money.
Wish the government had to do that too
Exactly. Ive never understood being too loyal to one brand. We the customer should want companies to compete as much as possible. So we get a better product and a better deal.
And that is free market capitalism. Competition drives innovation and improvement.
You don't have enough 9mm purse guns already?
The beauty of capitalism
Hickok45 has no problems shooting this gun in his review. I have one for about 3 months and shoots very accurate.
I appreciate your honest reviews. Many guntubers out there give glowing reviews to everything they get in there hands.
@AverageGIJoeOutdoors to be fair, the mag issue is an easy fix and isnt the guns fault
@AverageGIJoeOutdoors The mags are falling apart due to the user incorrectly installing the plus 3 extensions.
Very true but dudes wrong about the echelon sometimes companies do have bangers
@AverageGIJoeOutdoorsOk...not sure how you can eatch HO explain why that's a potential problem, and then act like it's a terrible issue.
The HS Produkt Echelon is a functionally great gun, but they need to redesign a piece of plastic that covers the bottom of the magazine (something that some people will replace anyway). It's not a knock against the gun in the slightest.
I'm saying this as someone who does not like Springfield, actively recommends people avoid them.
@mikethekidd_ Yeah, not sure how he failed to listen to what HO was saying about the mag baseplates. You either make them easy to remove or you make them a pain in the dick go remove. Hopefully they find a better baseplate design.
Chris please check through the box thoroughly for a little baggie with 4 screws. Look under the plastic tray where the gun lock is. Also check the manual for which screws to use with your optic
Looking forward to the 1000 round review. Side by side with the Shield, P365, Hellcat & Canik would be welcome!
and IWI Masada slim
If you're referring to a size comparison - type "handgun hero" into your search engine.
@@jaybowen2235 masada slim doesnt have picatinny
and CZ CZ P01 or P07
@jaybowen2235 maybe the cz p10s . But the p01 and p07 are not micro compact
Bought one of the non optic versions for my wife a couple weeks ago. We both really like it. Put 200 rds thru it between us. No failures and it was accurate at the distance of 15 yards we were shooting at. It shot point of aim for both of us.
Would you say it’s more snappy then a S&W m&p shield?
IMO about the same@@Illness.og.
Which Batch do you have? Mines is "9 thousands" and have that bad accuracy. I have the MRD Version
ours is in the upper 9k range. Non optic cut. @@norbertotirado819
@@Illness.og.nope
I’ve been shooting my reflex for 2 months now… sights are perfect.. nice bullseye groups… really enjoying shooting and carrying…
I just bought one. It’s already one of my favorites. I have a hellcat too and it’s not as snappy. The recoil is surprisingly smooth
Thanks for sharing your first shots and impressions - definitely piqued my interest in this new addition! Keep up the great work, looking forward to more reviews like this.
I’ve had this firearm about 6 weeks now, put about 350 rods through it and also allowed the employees at the local gun store to try it out, everyone liked it, because we know it’s a CCW, and it’s great for that, conceals well, carries comfortably, and less snappy than Hellcat or P365; it’s also very easy to take down and field strip. If I wanted to shoot 50 yards with 4” groups, this ain’t the pistol in buying, but if I want to pull and put rounds into an attacker 10 yards away in a quick fashion, this or a Shield Plus is 100% what I want. I’ve never had an issue with accuracy when I was honest with its designed intentions.
Well said …
That is a great way to frame that narrative, "honest with its designed intentions". The only intent I have with using this weapon is to do exactly what you said, draw quickly and shoot accurately and rapidly at a 10 (3-15 too) yard target. 🍻
Seems like the sight may be off from the factory. I may be missing something though.
I'll be looking forward to the inevitable follow-up review. Seems like this gun has potential, just needs a bit of polishing. I agree, though; it should be polished from the factory.
This video should have been named "operator error; what happens when you don't read the manual."
@@InitialFailurewhy is that ?
My reflex was shooting left and low also. Not quite as low. PSA - a MGW Glock sight pusher with the 43/43x adapter works on the FN Reflex.
I swear all of them are off the same out the box. Everyone’s first shot videos have the gun shooting low left. And mines did the same.
I got my hellcat out the box without adjusting anything and was on target. You need to return this gun
@@cjdebono8811That’s funny, because my sister’s Hellcat needed about the same POA as Outlaw’s Reflex. Maybe having one anecdotal account of a pistol doesn’t mean jack ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I have a 509 mid, FN pistols are nice quality and in my hand nicer than many competitors. They are solid.
I got a Holosun optic on it and got a holster and spare mag carrier for it from Muddy River, no disappointment. I sight the optics at 15 yds and it was driving nails at 15, 10 and 7 have not try 25 yet. Put about 200 rds thru it, no malfunction.
I love your videos; they live up to your name. When something goes wrong, both you and us(the viewers)no that the problem is not you. It's always the gun and your sense of humor is the best. Laughed my ass off on this one. Thanks for a most enjoyable video and I sincerely mean that
Best reviews. Hands down. Saved alot of money and time watching your reviews. Thanks.
The FN Reflex should come with two sets of screws - 2 pan head and 2 flat head. This is on page 40 of the owner's manual.
It is set up only for optics that take the Shield RMSc footprint: Holosun 407/507k, Romeo Zero, Swampfox Sentinel, etc.
There are no plates because you are supposed to mount it directly to the slide.
Mine did
Great honesty as always Honest Outlaw!
Love my Reflex. Had failure to feed issues when new but FN fixed it right up quickly. It shoots a little low left also but not bad. Nothing like yours. Thanks for the review
Haha I asked in the last episode about the Reflex, and now it's here. Awesome.
Always enjoy your absolute honesty 👋
Coming back to this video 7 months later after first getting the springfield hellcat, and eventually getting the canik mete SF (subcompact). What I learned from those two guns: the hellcat size is great for me, but the trigger pull is so heavy that it really does reduce my accuracy. The canik mete SF trigger is phenomenal, but so lightweight that I grew concerned about it as a carry gun. I think this FN may bridge the gap with a longer trigger pull but a lighter pull than the hellcat.
I too like your honest reviews and was ready to add this pistol to my collection but will not. I will keep my Sig P365 as my primary carry gun with my S&W Shield in .45 as my alternate carry gun. Thx again.
@HonestOutlaw....... 💥💥💥There should be a clear small ziplock bag with 4 screws and a tool..... Mine was under the plastic Trey..... Hope this helps..... My eps carry went on with no problem... No plate needed....💥💥💥 The accuracy problem is crazy.... Mine was dead nuts accurate at 25 yards...
Just got this gun and shot it yesterday. 100 percent agree the reset is definitely long coming from shooting the 365xl I thought it was just me
How in the world did this particular firearm pass its factory accuracy test? I was pretty stoked about this one, but not so much anymore. Thanks for the unbiased review.
They don’t test for accuracy.
You’re assuming FN performs that test. A quick look at any 509 or reflex video will prove that they do not.
My buddy’s 509 tac had a squib load in the first day of shooting it
@@Dustycheerio47That was nothing to do with the gun.
I'd say watch Hickock45 shoot the Reflex. Maybe it's the shooter?
Yay honest outlaw video
Just bought one and have the same grouping problem. However, I found a video that addressed shooting low and left. The instructor had you take a regular grip on target then stick your pinky, ring finger and middle finger towards the target and then firing. My results were that I no longer shot low left but was just an inch left and level with the bullseye at 7 yards.
You are both getting so good at this.
Chris, I have an update for you regarding the sights on the Reflex. I just got off the phone with FN Customer Service and was told that there was an error in the manual regarding proper positioning of the front sight. The manual illustrates the top of the front sight centered on the target just like usual. The Rep said that this was in error, that the dot in the front sight should be placed over the center of the target in what he termed a "Combat Hold" and that corrections were being made to the manual. He advised not to file the front sight as the tritium insert was close to the top of the sight and its purchase may be jeopardized. I hope to try this sight alignment out soon and I'll give you feedback on what I get. If you have time to try it with your Reflex, I'd like to hear what you experience.
Full review with an optic please! Would love to get your final thoughts soon because I got an itch that needs to be scratched! 😂
Love your content. Thank you!
Know this sounds crazy but change out the pinky extension on the 11round mag put the flat base plate on it and it’s a nail driver mine was 3inchs low 2-4inchs left flat base plate and it’s dead on my hold of aim tuck pinky under the firearm PLEASE TRUST AND TRY THIS IS CRAZY PUT WORKS LIKE A DREAM
I would love to see a follow up after you have completed the changes to the sights and have a 500-1000 rounds through the pistol.
Very interested in a full review and comparison! Thank you for all your efforts and expertise!
For anyone interested, i own one and did have the same issue, but if you dont mind shelling out for a red dot, it turns into a pretty great and surprisingly accurate micro 9
When the add a manual safety. . I will consider, heard it may be coming at the shot show..but who knows for sure
Just picked one up and the example I purchased has a phenomenal trigger, with the pull weight being good and the rest being short! It’s better than my 365 and only comparable to the Hellcat I have.
I just grabbed one today and threw it in layaway. I agree the trigger is great on the example I tried, though the reset was longer than I would like. I also worked at the store I found the gun and had a customer come in once before complaining about the accuracy of a 509 he owned and the gripe was similar to the review low shooting, I would say it has to account for the FN having combat hold and not center hold.
I have the reflex and this has precisely been my experience with it.
I like your honesty! Could you give a demonstration on how to tap the sights & sand them? If not, what type of tool did you tap with? Have you found a holster for it since this video came out & if so, what brand?👍👊
Great review. A Canik/FN comparison would help a lot of us decide. Look forward to that. Thanks!
Love your analysis and honesty! Great show. I own a FN503 which I bought after shooting Glocks and Sig P365. I love my 503 for it’s small footprint and conceal-ability however the 503 only holds 6 standard and 8 with extended mag. But you are correct both have long trigger pulls. The new version has a higher capacity mag which is nice as well as a rail for accessories and red dot which the 503 doesn’t have. Grips are similar. Looks like it could be a nice option.
Thanks, Chris and Mrs. Outlaw~
I work at a gun shop. We had a customer bring one in for Cerakote that he bought less than 24 hours ago from us. It had started rusting after only one day of carry.
Have carried mine for a 6 months in all types of weather with no corrosion. I'd question what that guy was doing, maybe really salty sweat.
I wonder if they did the internal hammer design just to have a feature that sets themselves apart from the competition. If they were to come out with a striker fired variant with shorter trigger pull/reset it would be a much more enticing imo.
I love when she goes "BEEEP!!!" Never change, Mrs. Honest Outlaw.
FN recommends Holosun K series or a Shield. None of the screws included with either of them fit so I ended up using the screws that held the optics plate in place if memory serves. I didn't like the 407K because it obscures the rear sight due to it's height from the floor plate so I bought a Shield too. It has a lower profile from the floor plate so I like it much better. I never shot it with just the iron sights so I wasn't too concerned about them, after watching this I miked the front sights and they were indeed off center just a bit so I punch adjusted them. The rear sights were aligned fine.
I'm going to the range today to put another 200-300 rounds through it BECAUSE out of the box, after installing the Shield and after cleaning it and re-lubing it I experienced failures to feed on multiple occasions through about 50 rounds. FN CS (who I can't say enough good things about) told me the gun has a break-in period. OK, even though I own multiple FN's in various configs and have never had to break one in to get it to properly feed, I shot 300 rounds of the recommended 124 grain bullets through it the next day and the FTF's did reduce dramatically although not completely. To be fair some of those were reloads that I load myself that work fine in every other 9mm I own.
I like the fact that it's a hammer gun, I LOVE the feel of it, ergonomically it's one of the best feeling pistols I have simply because it's slim and light. As I've gotten older I've found it harder to carry a 4 inch barrel pistol so I really like the way the Reflex feels while carrying it AIWB. It's almost unnoticeable. I love it's accuracy, especially at 3 -10 yards, that you can hit a target at 75 yards is impressive as hell. I can barely see a target at 25 yards but I done got the oldness.
Sorry for the long winded narrative. Love your videos, I'm a big fan. Thanks for putting them up.
I just picked up a Reflex. Hits 5" low and 3" left out of the box. Ordered and installed a Holoson EPS Carry, but have yet to zero the red dot. I think the included plate and screws are for the RMR footprint. No plate required to mount the EPS Carry. Re-use the screws that came in the cover plate. I have experienced several 'failure to feed' issues. I've only put 200 rounds through it so far and 8 or 9 failures to return to battery. I've got a long weekend coming up and I'll put another 2-3 hundred rounds through it. I really want to like this pistol and am disappointed that a firearm from a reputable manufacturer like would arrive with these issues. Perhaps I need to give up on the internal hammer and great trigger (and I do like the trigger) and go back to my first choice of the Sig P365.
Please do a full review!
I keep going back and forth whether to pick this one up...
Reliability is king for me. Obviously having the sights on and aligned is highly important too 😅
This thing seems to ring steel every single time you pull the trigger, but with this kinda accuracy I'd rather just go buy a cr920, SIG or 43x cuz atleast they're gonna shoot straight out of the factory every time.
@@NobodyAwsumshield plus or Hellcat over the 43x all day
If you want an alternative I recommend you checking out the IWI Masada slim. Honest outlaw does a good review of it and it’s about $150 cheaper and sights are dead nuts on. I was hitting in the 9,8, and 7 ring on a B27 target from 70 yards. Absolutely zero misses
A hellcat may fall into the same size category but not the quality of Glock. It’s a budget gun made with lower grade materials.
@@HWG-wm8ld Then why does it cost more than a Glock?
Most honest reviewer I've heard yet. Already bought this one so now I know what I need to do when it comes in. Thanks
You may not have to do a thing to it .
Same problem with my Shield plus optic ready. Have a regular Shield Plus with three white dots sight and enjoyed it so decided to get one to put a red dot on. I shoot dead on at 10 yards with the 3 dot sights then took the optic ready and shoot off to the left side 4-5 inches. Not a problem after putting a dot on but if the dot ever goes down and I need to use irons in a self defense going to be shooting left.
Holding out for the MRD version but they are hard to find. Love FN, so this could be a contender to replace my 365
I would be mildly tempted. I'm generally a big fan of FN's pistols, and I imagine I would like this. At the same time, I already carry one of their full size pistols, and I also have a P365 for when I need something smaller, so I don't really need a micro 9 from FN just for the sake of having another FN pistol. I would absolutely be down to try it out if my range picks one up for rental.
On an unrelated note, I love Mrs. Outlaw's nails in this video. I'm not usually a fan of lime green anything, but that Skittle green looks really nice.
Fyi... the screws on the cover plate on the slide work perfectly with the Holosun 407k pattern. Gun is awesome with perfect reliability through 500 rounds.
Yeah, it was just plain bad that "The World's Most Battle-Proven Firearms" came with a crooked rear sight. Overall though, I think on the later review you're gonna enjoy the heck out of it with the dot. Much more precise aiming. The EPS carry will direct mount to the slide without a mount, it shares the same 4/507k footprint if that may help any. Tactical Development's pro ledge with a Tlr7-sub Glock is already made for the FN Reflex too. Good review, even with the bad. Cheers.
It would be nice to see FN do to this pistol what Sig did to their P365; namely, offer more versions like the XL, Macro and esp. the Fuse.
The triggers on these things must be wildly inconsistent, i picked up two of them and the triggers were nothing like you showed and talked about, no sponge, they were crisp, but had a long reset. Too long. Glad I saw this review, never know which one you will get
Had a similar thing with the P365. Everyone goes on about the awesome trigger but the ones I looked at had garbage triggers.
Screws that came with my EPS carry worked perfectly for the Reflex
I was going to buy this but it was too similar to my sig macro so I decided agains it. I didn't know it was a internal hammer tho so im considering it even more.
Just picked up one of these with the optic option, its called FN Reflex MRD. Can't wait to get it to the range later this week.
My Hellcat sights were low too but at least centered. The tritium stayed in but the luminous ring around it came out during a class so I fixed the problem with an XS Big Dot set that were on for elevation. I rarely leave home without it now.
That rear sight would of drove me nuts to do a whole video with it that far off.
Got this in my hands yesterday at a local range. Didn’t care for the feel in hand or the trigger. Employees also didn’t care for the gun.
I held one at a gun show last weekend. The 15 rd mag has sharp corners on it. I had high hopes for it with the internal hammer, but couldn’t get past the uncomfortable grip.
I just got one actually it’s pretty accurate at 10 yards I can hit a 3 inch metal target pretty regularly
One thing I'd like to add. Just because Chris doesn't like accuracy doesn't mean you would too. I was testing a bunch of carry guns including a p365 and Hellcat. If just went from what the internet told me, I would've just bought the p365, but when I shot it, she shot like dogshit. Now, before ya say it's a skill issue, I put down a group the size of a sticky note using the Hellcat. Same target, same distance, same day even. Just goes to show how personal a decision it is to choose a handgun.
Chris, I made it out to the range this morning and came up with a sighting method that works for me. Per the FN Customer Support Rep, I placed the red dot on the front sight over the center of the target but instead aligning the two white dots on the rear sight with the red dot, I centered the red dot along the top edge of the rear sight so that the upper half of the red dot was over the top of the rear sight and the lower half was below the top of the rear sight. Goofy, I know, but it put the rounds right where I wanted them in elevation. To correct for the rounds hitting to the left of target center, I modified my grip on the gun. As you know, there isn't a lot of real estate on the handle so getting my left/support hand where I normally have it wasn't working. What I did instead was apply a bit of pressure to the right up by the trigger guard in addition to and instead of simply pulling straight back. It helped a lot BUT, I do not believe that a pistol that exists solely as a personal defense weapon should expect to be held and sighted any differently from the way I've been shooting for the past few decades. IF I have to use this it will be because of a mortal concern and I may very well need to get rounds off fast and accurately relying on practiced muscle memory.
I saw a third TH-cam review of the Reflex yesterday and the shooter was experiencing the exact same round placement issues you, me and two other reviewers experienced. In my never-to-be-humble opinion, FN needs to address this by, at least, offering to adjust the sights to the owner's specifications. I'm sorry to say that I should have purchased the model with the optics cut but who would have thought that such large errors with a target only 21 feet away would prove to be such an issue?
This reminds of me of the Jericho 2 review. Shots were off.
I haven’t been interested in any FN product since they discontinued the Hi-Power. That’s a premium price for a plastic pistol. Thanks for the excellent review.
They brought it back
@@zee-fr5kw I’ve seen that but it’s gotten mixed reviews. I’m waiting for a friend to buy one so I can try before I buy. I have several antique FNs and I love them.
Enjoy your channel and watch regularly. My optics ready reflex came with screws in the box for most common red dots.
Friend of mine had the same low and left problem with his new Hellcat, and I had the same problem with a Mossberg MC2C. This is why it’s always important to test the accuracy of your guns before your life depends on it
sounds like you and your friend should have tested your trigger fingers at the range...
@@stufoohaha took the words outta my mouth. I wonder if he has a gun that doesn't have that problem....
@stufoo how accurate are factory sights though? Does every company test their sights and make sure theyre aligned before sale?
Thanks for your testing the new firearm
Cannot wait for the review of the CZ Shadow 2 compact....
Until this review of the FN reflex, most youtubers seemed to give glowing reviews of the trigger and pistol in general.
Strange…a lot of others are putting holes directly center. What we have here is a little user error lol
IWI Masada Slim for the win 💯💯💯💯
Had to send mine back with failure to feed problems even after 700 rounds. Plus it shot low and left. Haven’t received it back yet.
Think I'll be doing the same. FTF issues and low/left as well. Frustrating!
Going to adjust the rear sight and run a few more rounds before contacting FN.
Haven't experienced this with CZ, Walther or S&W handguns.
I wish they would have eventually offer a striker fired version
So.. S&W Shield Plus it is! Thanks for the data 👍
Chris, I bought a Reflex about a month ago, took it to the range and put 100 rounds through it and it grouped low and slightly left. I put up a new target at 21 feet and really concentrated. My five-shot group was 3 1/2" low and 3/4" left. I took a picture of the target, gave the group distance from center and stated that Federal HST 124 grain had been used. I returned the pistol to FN the next day requesting a shorter front sight and windage adjustment. To their credit, FN returned the pistol in just four days. However, they made zero changes to my pistol but included a range target with five shots grouped tightly around the center using the same 124 grain ammo and fired from the same distance. There was a brief comment written on the target stating, "POA, POI".
After seeing you and your wife getting pretty much the same results, I will get back in touch with them. FN apparently wants me to adapt to their set up whereas I want the sights configured to the way that I shoot. Considering that many firearms of all types come with adjustable sights, I don't think I am being unreasonable and other than the sights, I like the gun. I also have an FN FNS-40C that I bought a few years ago and it was what influenced me to buy the Reflex. SMH, FN.
Any new updates by chance? Interested to hear if you went back to FN again.
Good review. Honestly after watching videos on whatever the "newest & best" flavor of the month, I remain satisfied with my Glock 19, 26, and 43. They work well without a lot of hassle. Reliable and no drama.
Yeah I have a 365xl that is great. It's been 100% from day 1. I'm still thinking about a glock 19/26 combo though. I mean the 26 while a little chunky Is a do all edc then I'd throw the 19 on the nightstand. Glock mags are everywhere so I would never have a problem putting hands on them.
Love my 26. I've had it for years. Time to get the slide milled tho.
@@juanhuttoe4517Go 45 over the 19. Even with a Mechanix L glove size, my support hand pinky hangs off the bottom of the 19.5.
OP, the 19 has been on my side since 97’. I don’t get why people want or need something newer just to have the new thing. Waiting on a custom holster and buying magazines, sights, spare parts…etc. for these guns doesn’t make sense to me
I just switched from the 19 to the 48 for carry. Noticeably more comfortable.
You have already taken this out of the running with your review as to being a future purchase. I was really liking the videos on it till this. Trigger is everything when a guy is 5'6 and 138 pounds. This just does not stack up against other carry pistols. NOW get to reviewing the new Shadow 2. When you do review that pistol we need to know about what safeties it has plus a size comparison and how it feels as a carry being that it is so heavy. I will be checking every day till you get to review it. Cheers man. Someday when I ride up by you I will have to meet ya for a beer. Looking at a ride to Toppling Goliath in the near future!
So close to getting the reflex until this review. I’m now reconsidering other options. But that’s a good thing. We need honesty!
I've always wanted a newer FN with a red dot mount...but I live in CA and haven't done so yet. I wish you couldve reviewed it with a red dot installed. Major props to your Kentucky windage skills. I had to do a rifle qual as a Marine in Guam pre typhoon with ridiculous wind and rain. Only 2 of us in the platoon qualified. At 500 I was aiming at the target to the right.
I think with U shaped sights, you have to align the top of the U and the middle of front sight post Dot together. That’s when the hellcat Pro Manuel said.
I used the screws that held the slide plate to mount my eps carry and have had no issues and did not need an adapter plate.
Love and enjoy the Honest review's to you both yes let's see a further review on this little guy please
S&W Shield Plus Still Best in Class. Looks like Apex needs to make a Trigger Kit for the FN Reflex. Just like they did for the M&P S&W Shield replacing that Henge Trigger.
Took HO’s opinion on the shield plus and bought a performance center. Definitely my go-to EDC
It’s hard to beat a Shield really, especially for the money.
@@ironmikehallowween had a $600 hellcat that was garbage in comparison and my wife has a sig p365 x comp that cost $900. The shield plus beats both of them and I paid $500 for the PC version. Used to have a standard that was also better. Hell even my Canik MC9 was more expensive and the only upsides it has is an extra couple rounds, a light rail, an optics cut and a cleaner trigger. Not as dependable as the shield plus though
@colosim5507 yeah, I'm not caring for the Hellcat either. I rented one at the range and thought I would like it well enough, so I bought a Pro. Trigger slap, heavy trigger pull, just as snappy as it's 3 inch counterpart, and for some reason my accuracy is just trash with the gun. There are things I could do to fix it, I did polish parts and get rid of most of the trigger slap. But do I want to spend another $500 on the gun to make it almost as good as my CZ P01 that cost the same and required *nothing* to shoot well? Nah...
@@cavalieroutdoors6036 for all the innovation, it’s the second snappiest handgun I’ve ever fired (LCP being first). It’s difficult to be accurate with the snappiness, stiff trigger, and quick acquisition sights. The pro did get the grip right. The Echelon grip is almost identical and was the main selling point for me to get one to run IDPA
Waiting on the full review!
Guy at the range let me shoot one of these today. Ergonomics we’re great, not snappy at all, and the trigger felt nice. The reset was rough though. Wouldn’t replace my shield plus PC or MC9 (w/ post-release recoil spring and fixed extractor spring)
Mc9 is a definite sleeper
@@charlieboi6370It's not...what are you talking about? The MC9 had issues that got swept under the rug, but once it's fixed it's exactly what people expected. A small Canik that has a trigger like a PPQ/PDP.
@@charlieboi6370I sold my MC9 owning it for a week worst gun I ever bought and I feel stupid that I thought I was replacing my Elite Sc with it gun couldn’t go 1 mag without a malfunction
@@brandonUwanawich954 had similar problems at first. After breaking it in, I was still having about a 2% RTB issue. After Century sent a free lighter recoil spring and lighter/shorter extraction kit springs, it runs like a dream
@@brandonUwanawich954 sorry to hear that. Most ppl who own that I've talked to like it a lot.
I would like to see the extended review.
I don’t know how you shoot those little pistols so well with hands your size. I have been trying to see how you wrap your fingers around these little things. My fingers are just too long for them. I just gave up on them, except for rare occasions, and carry a full-size pistol. It’s no big deal really. It makes life much easier. Thanks for the video.
I have a 503 and it shoot really nice (besides a round falling out when you chamber and reload the round). I wonder if they were trying to make a budget friendly version with this gun.
Just one out of 1.2 million subscribers but I’m in for a thousand round review.
Please do a full review! Trust your opinion and would like to see before making a purchase.
I'm impressed by your ability to adjust for Kentucky Windage, particularly at that kind of distance
Like I said in your short video, I’m a die hard P365 fan. I carry appendix in a small leather holster. I was hoping for a great review, not a so so review, because I really wanted an excuse to buy one.
My concern w/the FN was carrying appendix with a single action hammer fired gun w/o a safety.
Seems you have that concern with the P365. That being said, I would love to see a comparison between the FN & the P365 and if possible address this issue with both guns.
Your thoughts if the gun would be a candidate for a thumb safety.
As always, great video and very informative.
365 is not a single action
Love your reviews and appreciate your honesty these other guntubers have no idea what they are talking about they just review for clickbait. Please do a comparison on the FN Reflex and Canik MC9
Great review. Would love to see you review the reflex's big big brother. The 545.
YES!!!! YES, YES, YES….and the 510.
It’s funny as what I have found only one had issues with the Reflex and the St Victor
Def would like to see a full review and a comparo with its peers.
Thank you so much for doing this for you. I definitely do not want one of these now. I’ve tried so many subcompact firearms and have not been thrilled so far. I like my Kimber micro nine the best. I know it lacks capacity but shoot ability is incredible. is there anything else that you would recommend along these lines
I had no issues mounting the EPS Carry to the Reflex, using the flat topped screws that came in the FN box. No plate needed.