This is the hardest decision I've had to make - Therapist Plays Disco Elysium: Part 18
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 เม.ย. 2024
- Cuno Analysis: • The Most Tragic Charac...
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We're back! The next episode is already recorded and available already if you are a supporter through patreon or twitch, and it will come to YT in the next few days as well. Next up is a deep dive into The Pale and how I interpret this concept through the lens of psychological theory. Thank you for your support and enjoy!
"I'll fuck you up, Kid...with a future." This is the most Disco Elysium thing you've ever said.
Kim: We have a lynching to solve, please detective.
Brady: Hi Cuno
I love how this game gears you up to believe fighting Cuno's dad is gonna be some kind of big boss battle
And then the true boss battle is having to decide whether or not to give a twelve year old narcotics.
@Moosewrites I'm gonna be real, if you went to Cuno's house to beat up his dad and steal his speed and you don't give the drugs to Cuno, you already lost the battle
Ah Disco Elysium the only game where the decision wether or not to give a small child narcotics is a difficult decision
I know right? You wouldn't hesitate to share irl - sharing is caring!
@@DamianSzajnowski nah those little assholes can get their own stuff
@@DamianSzajnowski[THOUGHT COMPLETE]
MAZOVIAN SOCIO-ECONOMICS
Cuno would take offense at the notion of 'small' child. He is *BIG* child.
"There's still plenty to be scared of here. Just not what you thought."
Man this hits so hard.
I'm reminded of your initial stance on Kim. You talked repeatedly about pushing the boundry of that relationship to test Kim's investment in Harry. It would appear that's exactly what Cuno did here. It is a shame the person pushing can put you in a no win scenario
The worst part about this route with Cuno is that no matter how certain you are that the world has failed him, he's just as certain that you're part of the world that failed him.
And he is 100% correct about that.
Moral of the story: give kids speed when they ask for it
@@hamblance5938 Whooosh!
i can't wait for the episode where he talks with klaasje 😭🙏
fr, I’ve been so interested to see what he has to say about her. she’s by far one of the most complex characters in this game
@@beyondviolet which is an insanely high bar
Yes yes yes please this. Cuno is a walk in the park compared to the Klassje situation.
My favorite scene!
Me too, especially want to see THAT volition check
The issue with breaking his trust with this speed thing is that you don't really help him get off the stuff (which is obvious) and you burn the bridge of maybe being able to influence Cuno in the long run. Sure, you keep your virtue and do technically right thing to do. What an adult should've done. But that changes nothing in Cuno's life. Maybe makes him just a bit even less trusting to authority figures, potentially damaging his chances of getting help in the future.
There's no good answer.
I'm enjoying this playthrough a ton, every episode is a delight. The writing with Cuno shows how this game perfectly balances comedy and dark humor with tragedy and depression, but I really feel like it's not a cynical thing, there is heart, empathy and honesty to how it depicts the struggles of each character.
That's what Disco Elysium absolutely nails. There's a sincerity to every character. Even the ones that feel like absurd caricature like Plaisance or Measurehead. Everyone's more actualized and whole than what skims off the surface.
I'm 58 days sober and this game has hit different since I've tried to clean up my act. I get the impression that the creators went through a lot and that those experiences show up in this game.
At least one of the writers for the game from the original ZA/UM collective has definitely gone through alcoholism. I can't say more because then I would be assuming, which is practically a lie.
You can consume drugs (incl. ciggs and alcohol) when its in your hand and by clicking on the icon at thw right bottom corner
It sometimes does bug and the item doesn't appear. sometimes you have to move them between hands to make it work and the hit box can be a little buggy also
The fact that this session's length (59:39) is actually longer than the in-game time passed (18:08-18:49) is a testament to the great care and thoughtfulness that you put into the playthrough. Love all your deep dives and can't wait for the next session - there's so much more to come that I just know you'll love to get into🙂
I think, unless it was an amount that could have lead him to OD on the spot, giving Cuno the drugs would have been the lesser evil. Cuno is already an addict, one more high isn't going to do much damage that hasn't already been done - and on the flipside, showing him that level of trust, understanding and respect, showing him that you take him seriously as a person, would have established a rapport that would have made him more receptive to your guidance in the long run.
This isn't about gameplay choices, by the way, just general thoughts on how to deal with people like that. Getting them off the stuff is important, but getting there takes time.
On the flip-flipside, giving Cuno the speed amounts to acceptance of his current situation, and Cuno is smart enough to know that. Working him out of the deep hole he's dug himself into could be that much harder after reinforcing his current mindset. And Cuno might see it is an even greater betrayal later when he realizes that we didn't actually view him as an equal partner to split speed with, and only played along as an "in."
Either way, you can really tell how great the writing of Disco Elysium is when discussions about in-game choices feel this nuanced.
Euro Analysis incoming: You brought up all the reasons why not handing over the drugs to Cuno was a bad choice. I got some more...
1) Cuno is probably not bad at perception, either. He most definitely saw Harry is high on *his* shit.
2) Speaking of which... you remember the pile in his den? Yeah, he's got more. Should have seen that coming. Your gram wouldn't have made any difference.
but the most damning thing is
3) Despite knowing a huge slice of the context, you took the easy path, the moral high ground, the cookie cutter solution, the 'lawful' action. For all the concern you took upon to help this kid, you could not bring yourself to bend the rules just once for him in order to achieve a better outcome, and all while being a complete hypocrite, too! And why? Because it would make you look bad in front of Kim? (who you established, isn't all too sympathetic to anyone involved here) or because Player Brady doesn't want to follow his own advice?
Sooo... Brady vs. DuBois (assuming Harry the character took the other path and didn't confiscate the stuff, relapse on it and then F the Cuno):
Who is the better therapist and who is the better cop? Which part of you really made this decision: The one RPing a competent cop for Kim or the one RPing for the audience or was the reasoning coming from something higher up the chain? What have you (the Player) learned from this scenario? (if anything)
Just some food for thought.
Asking the real questions.
Disco Elysium came up in my therapy session the other day. Needless to say, loving the series. I think you might be interested in going through some of your favorite parts with max stats after you are done. I think you would get a lot out of it. Keep up the good work
In the words of Bo Burnham, "Googling 'Derealisation', And hating what you find"
I love how freely you roleplay instead of trying to go for what seems like the best choice or what you would do in the situation
I like how we skimmed over the fact that Harry is currently stroking out. Harry didn't deduce or be convinced that he may be having a stroke, your literal body (Endurance) stated it as fact.
two brady vids in a week ? hell yeah. Btw the lower your morale health is, the lower your volition skill is so i recommend you always keep your morale up if you want to hear volition chime in more often
Cuno really is tragic. Glad you saw through his bluster and did the quest, even though you didn't "win" in the end.
I like how the game handles it though. You're a drunk in town solving a murder. You're not there to save the children. Even if you did everything right, all you're doing is setting him on the right path... and you have to just have faith he'd walk it when you went back home to your precinct.
At the very least, he and Cunoesse still have each other.
I wouldn't throw the towel just yet. Keeping the drugs from Cuno might have consequences later.
This is not the end of his story
Esprit de Corps is your sense of camaraderie, but camaraderie can come from either good or bad places. So with Cuno here it's either be good but no friend, or be bad and he trusts you
Loving the new format, it feels way more natural to watch and see your thoughs, also im certain it feels more natural to play the game without taking care of a stream. Loving to see you full focused on this masterpiece of a game
I've been showing my friends this playthrough. Haven't enjoyed a let's play this much in years
Cuno was my favorite character when the game first came out. I love how strangely complex he is.
I swear he’s based on one of the writers.
I love how Disco always manages to invest players enough that they have a legitimate moral dilemma over giving drugs to a twelve year old.
I'm loving this playthrough so much. The very moment this comes to a close I'm going to immediately go back to the first episode and start it all over again
Hahaha that snake eyes roll killed me
Btw
It's interesting when electrochemistry recruits other parts of your intellect and psyche to convince you to take drugs or whatever else it wants.
Love this series so much man
Everything is so damn great in this game. Another banger of an episode!
"+1 XP for every orb clicked"
*sails right by every single orb on the way from Cuno to Joyce*
Seriously though, I've been loving this story. You play the way you want to play, that's what matters.
Ride the Lightning, Cuno!
I'm still a lot of videos behind but I checked this one real quick and am now so excited to reach this part! The Pale is something that I rarely see discussed. Thanks for all the content.
I was kinda sad you weren't clicking all the orbs but now that you've got Jamais Vu it's time to get on that grind
Im excited the moment i see a new part of this out. I don't care if it takes 100 parts, ill watch every video.
Ive watched multiple playthroughs of this game from people that have different perspectives. And your perspective as a therapist is extremely captivating and informative.
I wish i commented earlier but to reinforce what some people have been saying; (as someone that did an undergrad involving politics) don't worry about the politics, and ignore anyone trying to shame you into not engaging with the politics. There are more aspects to this game than just politics and i think you cover what some people lack the experience to cover.
Cant wait for the next part.
Always look forward to these, keep it up! Love the commentary
Would be cool if, after the series is over, you went to the wiki to see what you might've missed. The things that can happen with Cuno are pretty cool.
So happy to see this back in my feed!
Ohh that talk with Joyce is gonna be good. I remember when I learned about the pale. It fucked me up lol
Absolutely loved this video and the discussion about Cuno! Thank you for the wonderful, thoughtful interaction with him.
yess i have been waiting for this glad its here
commenting for the algorithm cause people are sleeping on the best Disco Elysium playthrough ever
About the narrative therapy style, these kinds of things makes me wish I have a therapist like brady
My current therapist is definitely trying too hard on applying coping mechanisms and expect me to **do it**. But she doesn't understand that there are so many hurdles that is preventing me to not do those things. From piles of work, to shame, guilt, and after all that by the time I have time to have time for myself, I am exceptionally exhausted and it would be my time for me to sleep
Yeah, Cuno had a plate of amphetamine powder on his secret shack. This is a hard choice, I put no culpability on your end. You offered the hand to help, he didnt buy in, like you said, and it didn't go 100% well. You did your best
The new format is still entertaining and super insightful. 💚 Thank you for uploading.
Oh man, the whole buy-in tangent hits close. I've never had any trust in therapists because this whole "road to recovery" thing is THEIR way, not my way.
And even though my way has screwed me up, I don't believe their way is any better. And also should I follow their way - would I still be me?
As an alcoholic in recovery, this was my favorite episode so far, and I really appreciated your takes. As someone who's struggled with addiction this game really hits home.
HARDCORE!
Another great video! Like the changes - it felt like you were much more focused and engaged! Hopefully you'll get another chance to interact with Cuno.
Yes, Jamais vu is a real thing - a somewhat "dazed" state when you feel like suddenly can't understand what world you live in. Feels kinda like some strange "ascention" when you start questioning, "wait, what are we all doing here?", "what is the meaning of all these things happening around?". A really trippy experience, I must say.
Great video
Gotta say, you really got the Cuno thing down. I'll admit I was very much like Kim through the thing, but you're showing me a lot.
It’s a good thing you started with high base Authority, that’s all I’m going to say about the decision to destroy Cuno’s trust.
Ughhh if you know you know but I NEED HIM to get THAT ENDING!!!
Hope you get money for the Whirling.
I'm anxious for your journey.
37:33 - Yes!
Finally, my therapy session after important exams)
Oh boy!! Reality Lowdown episode next???
I laugh every time you fail a high chance roll. Every single time. Thumbs up.
You're back! And starting things off with a speedrun, so to speak.
idk why they havnt fixed this bug, but to use your cigs, you gotta click on them on the bottom right, and you have to be kinda to the right of the symbol.... idk, you kinda have to mess around with it... incase you wanna blast ciggies on the reg... i mean its like the one socially acceptable drug to use while being a cop lol.
I don't think anyone is working or wants to work on DE anymore due to the situation at ZA/UM. Every lead dev has either left or been fired and at this point it's pretty safe to assume DE has become a stolen property you'd best avoid paying for, but pirate instead. Support the original creators in their future endeavors.
@@Silent_Depths yeah but one coder at the company could probably do it in like a day lol. hell, the owner could hire some guy on fiver to do it probably
@@adamvifrye2690 In short; no. In detail and I speak from experience as I did my masters on CS. It depends greatly on the dependencies of the codebase. Any programmer with knowledge of backend, understanding of low level languages and information structures could perhaps find a solution or workaround in a short amount of time, but they won't and shouldn't do it for a fiver. Any software dev with knowledge in the programming language used to develop DE could do it for cheap. but not so quickly and both would have to have access to the source code. While the problem seems easy, in practice it's a global mechanic / instance in the game which could create a thousand new bugs and severe system instability if it was tampered with. It's not as prevalent in DE, but having in game time independent of real time is actually incredibly difficult mechanic to pull off without creating horribly unstable software. which DE was for months on both PC and Console release.
@@adamvifrye2690That's not how game development works.
@@adamvifrye2690 Apparently TH-cam didn't send my earlier reply to this, but in short; no and I'm afraid you're wrong on so many levels your comment is genuinely little embarrassing. In detail and speaking from experience as I did my masters in CS, solving such problem depends greatly on the code base's dependencies.
Any programmer knowledgeable of backend, information structures and low level languages could probably identify the specific fault in logic causing the unintended behavior and come up with a solution or workaround within one development cycle - relatively quickly. That's not someone who would nor should do it for a fiver, ever.
Any third party freelance software developer with knowledge and understanding of the programming language used to develop Disco Elysium could get it done as well, but they too would need to see the entire source code as interacting with cigarettes is more than likely a global variable, or at least designed to be a global mechanic in game. Tampering with it to make it work in one situation could (and in the most cases would) introduce about a thousand unforeseen bugs elsewhere in software and at worst make it less stable.
Additionally if I remember correctly it's tied to the in-game timekeeping system (independent of real time), which is notoriously difficult to program without making the software horribly unstable, which DE was at launch both on PC and consoles requiring half a year worth of stability patches to make it playable for many users. Granted DE ties advancing time to the blocks of displayed written prose, so it's not the most complicated system I've seen and is all better for it, but it still tracks an enormous amount of variables prioritizing and adjusting them to player's interactions.
Interesting - we took the other route with cuno - his future trust was worth more to us then withholding something of high value at that time + the play of letting him have a grounded sense of control over an adult and authority figure. Via shivers and boring cop thought -1 too intouch with a reality www ( Not commented in a judgement way, its cool that you got to experience this particular outcome! it weird to articulate the sense of horror we felt when you withheld it or why it is so affecting to us the audience who went differently. something about your buying in vs his buying in push and pull ) ( maybe you wanted this audience reaction - WHO BENEFITS
Now that you have Jamais Vu completed, it would be a good idea to click on the orbs you encounter throughout the world, as each one will give you +1 XP. Do what you want tho!
PS Also make sure to keep track of when you level up! Most people invest their skill point immediately into a thought slot or a skill. Again, up to you!
So happy to see you playing this again. Your gameplay brings in such a fascinating perspective - together with my hyperfixation on DE, this is doing wonders for my neurodivergent brain, so thank you lol
I couldn't find it in me to steal from Cuno. He's basically an orphan, with zero supervision, presumably sleeping underground, probably hardly eating anything, all of that in the cold and snow. They're outside from 8am to 2am. This game lets you say a lot of cruel things, but the thought of forcing a 12 years old kid in that situation through sudden (and possibly unexpected, if he had a shred of faith in you) withdrawal was more than I could handle. He seems to be implying he has a secret stash, so it's probably "just" a betrayal... but still.
Still, I don't think keeping the drugs is the wrong choice either. It's heartwrenching. Bad option A or bad option B. And I love the game for that.
"I need to take a break from this cuno stuff; it is way too heavy for me"
And then you go on to ask Joyce about the pale. LMAO
Don't spoil man
@@attentivechair3248What do you mean? He's already past that conversation, it's on his next video.
Hell yeaah
YEEEEEEEESSSS🎉🎉🎉🎉
The system for using consumables (cigarettes, alcohol, speed) has been bugged for a long time.
The first time you use anything it works smoothly because Electrochemistry pops in to hype you up for the substance and you have a dialogue option to consume it. Which was the case for speed in this episode.
After the first time, however, it's (1) buggy to get a substance in your hand. You may have to repeatedly put something in your hand slot and take it out again in the inventory screen for it to show up as a clickable button in the hand slot underneath the clock on the main screen. Then, once that button is there, it's (2) often unclickable and you might have to click slightly *off* the button for it to register the click. I forget the direction but another comment says it's slightly left.
If you're patient you'll always be able to manage to consume something, it's just frustrating getting there.
Both problems only show up with a mouse. If you have a controller plugged in it works like it should
I truly hope you figure out what's going on with cunoesse.
Man I was really hoping to see more of Brady interacting with cuno in this playthrough considering how much he liked him.
Thanks a lot for failing Cuno 😭
All is not lost in your character's relationship with Cuno.
One comment I would make that I've heard as criticism is that while I understand *why* the devs coded the came with so many rolls (They're emulating Pen and Paper RPG games) the difference is that on those game someone there can make a judgement call and say 'You don't need to roll, you just succeced' when there's no reason why you would fail.
Here however it goes from endearing to silly and then infuriating to fail at task that are well above 80 or even 90% because well, it's not *really* ever 90% since no matter how much you work on your stats, build your character around a concept you still have something like 17% of failing *ANY* task with a critical failure: a mechanic that's more suited for combat situation and not Harry not being able to grab his tie from the ceiling fan.
That's the one criticism: archaic roleplaying systems (Because this is silly even on ttrpg games: we have newer dramatic systems better suited for narrative games where this stuff just doesn't happens and the story doesn't depends on probabiliy but on player agency) get in the way so I never actually feel bad in this particular game about the common tactic famously known as save scumming: I'm not taking a failure on a roll I shouldn't even be making (a.k.a. Odds being over 70% in my favor)
Counterpoint: It's important that Harry has a chance of failing to grab his tie from the ceiling fan because Harry as a character *would* struggle with simple tasks. He has a failing body, he's losing his mind, and he's a drug addict/alcoholic coming down from a massive bender. Harry's a fucking loser and the constant risk of failure reinforces that character trait.
"Why is Kim so mean to me? Why doesn't Kim seem to believe in me?" cries local man, who refuses to stop making his character do illegal drugs in front of his partner, because he feels it's "what that character would do" and he "wanted to see how far he could push Kim" ... despite playing a game where half the point is that you don't get to control the POV character's headspace, but you CAN direct their behavior, and therefore it is up to the player whether or not the POV character commits to recovery.
Sorry, I just find it kind of funny how you intentionally make Harry choose things that actively impede his recovery, or things that intentionally bother other characters, and then get annoyed at said characters when they have a completely reasonable reaction to you character's actions
I'm afraid this is indeed a limit when dealing with addiction and certain conditions in general like neurodivergencies--unless you have been through it, or experience the world that way, you will struggle to speak the client's language and meet them halfway. Therapy needs to be informed by experts with lived experience, not just therapists and medics, so that it gains richer understanding. You may think "but we do that through treating our clients", and to an extent thats true, you learn a lot from being in that journey with them, a lot that may contradict what your training taught you about that condition. But that takes a very talented therapist who's also willing to publish case studies (not a very profitable effort), whereas people in recovery are everywhere!
Now imagine Harry did go on the "kilo splitting" route and Cuno eventually followed him in the ranks of the police. A boy like him from the absolute trash chute of Jamrock recovering from addiction and as a young man helping other disadvantaged kids not follow in the footsteps of their dead beat dads, and saving the lives of other "f--ed up girls", because he speaks their language and understand their thought process.