Is Harry A Good Person? - Therapist Plays Disco Elysium: Part 13
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Hey everyone! I've been super busy with life lately so my apologies that these are coming a bit slower. There may be a gap in the next few weeks where I won't get time to stream at all but the series will surely continue after that! For now, you can catch parts 14 & 15 early if you are a twitch/patreon sub. I appreciate your support! www.patreon.com/bradybyrne. Hope you enjoy the episode
Just don't give up on it please! This is the most interesting look into this game I've ever seen. I think the writing is absolutely fantastic and you've barely scratched the surface of this masterpiece. Seeing an educated take on this is fascinating.
Will advise you to check in on the motor carriage. Kim said something about the ledger that could be checked in there. Is important for the character's self-discovery of themselves as a cop.
"They have like 8 guys but I have several mental health problem voices backing me up"
This is the most Disco Elysium sentence ever uttered
They might have 8 guys, but I AM 8 guys!
@@ANunes06Hell yeah!!
don't forget, you can use the lights on Kim's motorcarriage to read the holographic emblem on your RCM items. They may hold secrets.
We get into that next episode :)
My biggest thought following his discussion after rigorous self-critique
@@eurobrady Was watching the twitch VOD. Found it finny how it seems to always happen to you Brady - you talk about a concept for a long time seemingly in theory then mere minutes later after you're finished you seemingly magically run into what you were just theorizing about.
"And above all, you let life defeat you. All the gifts your parents gave you, all the love and patience of your friends, you drowned in a neurotoxin. You let misery win. And it will keep on winning till you die -- or overcome it."
My favourite thought completion in the game, tied with the Moralist Political thought completion.
As a recovering addict.. ouch. Yeah that's exactly what it feels like
short answer: yes
long answer: Disco Elysium
1:02:13 Encyclopedia: this journey is very disco. Remember, the disco in disco Elysium is actually a double entendre, it refers not only to the music, but also to the Latin word disco, which means “I learn”. Fun fact: the phrase “disco inferno“ (which disco Elysium is a play on) can be translated from Latin to mean “I learn through suffering hell“
11:10 "They may have numbers, but I have mental health issues!" [Volition] This is not the best way to go about thinking about this issue.
Half Light: Fuck them, there's like 20 of us in here! Pull out the gun officer. What could possibly go wrong.
@@LiamWhittle-tm7yo [Conceptualization] What better way to impress upon the union that their mob tactics don't scare you than with a performance piece, ending with some abstract splatter art on the Whirling's front window?
[Authority] Of course, it's all a ruse. This is all a power-move to show them you're not afraid of bullets, so why should you be afraid of a gang of uneducated inebriates? You'll catch that slug with your teeth.
[Reaction Speed] Yeah, man, I got this.
Just so know for in future not every red check is something you can come back to. Sometimes if you dont take them when they come up you miss them forever.
Rigorous self critique hits pretty hard. When I got it I had to stop and mull it for a few minutes. Game aside, that bit of "You let misery win and it'll keep on winning until you die or overcome it." Was incredibly real.
"All the love and patience of your friends" was clearly written from experience.
Rigorous Self-Critique is the second most important bit of text in the whole game.
Curious, what do you think is the first?
@@Aeiouaaaaaaaaa I would put the solution of thought is the "Kingdom of Conscience"(moralist politic). It reflects the whole essence of centrism and the importance of politics in general, carries the essence of the true intentions of the Moralintern and why life under their control is an arbitrary submission to dictatorship and stagnation
@@Aeiouaaaaaaaaa I was probably referring to the line about "the mask" falling, or part of the Student Communist interaction.
So glad I saw this in person. You were fucking COOKING this episode Brady. I won't tell you which bits you got right and wrong but you're starting to think like a detective and I'm genuinely impressed.
It was fucking hilarious hearing "this is some psychological bullshit" from a trained therapist's mouth though 😂
I've played the game a couple times now, and it's so funny seeing you go on these long tangents, and then being able to remember a line from Volition that pretty much says the exact same thing. The writers really knew what they were doing!
I feel like when I tell people the best writing I've ever seen comes from a video game they think I'm as nuts as Detective Du Bois
the best episodes are the hour + videos that get 5 minutes into the game xD
Very interesting and different play through.
I will warn you that it is absolutely necessary to obtain 20 real by the end of day 2 to pay Garte. Otherwise, you can get into a soft lock situation in the game as there is no contingency backstop like there is on day 1. This is the only flaw in my view in an otherwise brilliantly designed game.
Worst case never forget pawn shop Roy. And that there are places you haven't explored yet.
Lets go, the best Disco Elysium lets play in youtube (that I have seen) continues.
WoolieVS would like a word
I'm following Aniki's playthrough in parallel, it's very different and complementary with Brady's. It would be awesome if they could stream a discussion when they are both finished
@@Melgorias Oooh a collab with 2ndAniki and Brady could be interesting haha
Aniki's playthrough hits fucking hard, it's amazing and works very well in parallel to this.
i really enjoy your little intro music. it's the little things in editing that add that final polish to make the video shine, and you've got them covered well
Thank you! I write them myself as a little way to give things a bit more character. I'm glad you enjoy it!
just wanted to say I absolutely love your input and constructive commentary - it's not often you see something like this, and seeing this in combination with a story as well written as Disco Elysium is a miracle... I've been silently enjoying your playthrough so far - might even catch one of your streams later... thanks for being awesome!
"they might be 7 guys, but i got 7 mental health problems" fantastic line
Brady dawg I’m so happy I found this play through this type of psycho analysis and character study is exactly what I was looking for out of a content creator for this game I’m loving it it’s awesome to watch
Hell yeah
Make sure to hold your bag in your hand! Can't pick up trash without it!
The cool thing is that even the skill buff for rigorous self critique agrees with your analysis -- to cope with the stuff in the unconscious surfacing to the conscious he needs a higher pain threshold ahahah
I'm trying to think about what you have said of the "car and house cleaning"
My only answer to that is... IS NOT A NORMAL BEHAVIOR TO FOCUS IN ONE THING MEANWHILE THE REST OF YOUR LIFE JUST FALLS APART?
this is my whole short life and i don't even drink nothing.
For me this is the only way to make everything works.
There is a number of things that i need to prioritize and it's far from the ideal number that should be.
But I thinked that was the rule for all the living beings. (All my friends are autistic and mental stuffs like that, maybe it's not a good way to measure the situation)
This series give me an serious amount of questions and i love it.
(I'm from Brasil, so forgave my english)
Aww yiss, more Brady Does Disco! It's a beautiful day after all
As I only communicated with psychologists and psychiatrists in a language that's not my "mother tongue", I'm curious on if it's annoying or exhausting to deal with such patients/visitors. It's obviously not intentional, as we need to communicate in a language that we both know, but I still think about it sometimes - wouldn't it be better to do online visits in a language I know since I was a child than in-person visits in a language that might cause me and/or the other person some translation issues.
And aside - I'm proud that I actually read a book recommended to me by my first psychologist which was written in a language I'm still learning (and unfortunately not translated to any other language.. yet?). It was actually a quite nice book on emotions.
I might've written that already under one of the previous videos, but I still adore this series. Both for it's "first time reaction" appeal and your interesting analysis of the game.
I'd say a lot in the defense of Harry, but I can't as of now. Harry is complex.
“My parents taught me the world only makes sense if you force it to.”
I knew you would like the solution to Rigorous Self-Critique.
YOOO life got in the way and i can't keep up with the uploads i'm like 2 videos behind😭 keep it coming though i really am enjoying your playtrough so far
At this rate, it's going to take a year to finish this playthrough. (And that's fine!)
Idk if ever mentioned but the game has twitch integration for questions and other things! I haven’t looked into it since I don’t stream but maybe you should! There’s moments when asking chat about what they think when they could answer in game their choices! But all is well anyway.
I think Brady has his own view of who Harry is and what his journey is. I feel like putting decisions in the hands of chat would turn some serious analysis into a memeathon
You talking about having a clean home but dirty car inspired me to get up and do the dishes.
🍿 Favorite series here on TH-cam so far this year :D
It's been a few years since I took psychoanalysis in school, but a lot of what you explain here sounds familiar to me. It, Ego, Superego and so on... that's the basics of Sigmund Freud's personality model :)
You talk about moving thoughts from the unconscious to the conscious, which I guess is like learning about your unconscious thoughts. But wouldn't you also want to translate your conscious thoughts (like a self awareness of an issue and desire to change into actually changing that unconscious behavior, like quitting that smoking) into the unconscious?
Thanks for keeping this playthrough up! Very interesting every time! I'm not sure I got the concept of Sweet Lemon though, is it possible to develop this defense mechanism through positive reinforcement? Lets say you grow up with an older sibling and whenever you play sports you are commended every time you take a bad hit as a goalkeeper. Would this reasoning form a habit to link physical pain as something virtuous?
I feel like your mess of a diagram represents the reality more than any singular points could ever do
With that beginning part with therapists not being detectives, I think it fits, considering that drama, as in telling lies, is in the intellect tree and not the psyche tree, int being a part of yourself you’ve possibly not invested much on
I caught the stream. Watch this man start cooking next episode. I was genuinely impressed.
5:32 Holy! I've been noticed by Mr. Therapist :D
You should talk to or do a collab with 2ndAniki who is also playing Disco Elysium. He's working out some personal demons in his playthrough, so it would be kinda cool to see how you two would interact
0:00 cat detected
Oof the bit about how a functional alcoholic hits hard
Not that I'm complaining, but this playthrough might last years.
LET'S GOOOOOO
I Don't think "good person" is a thing, there are people who does good things, but it is the doing of them that is good, the physical body of the person doing them doesn't change.
That reminds me a lot of David Cronenberg's interview when he was talking about his movie, "The History of Violence." I''ll just quote part of it (it's a bit long)
"...In this movie, we’ve got an audience that’s definitely going to applaud these acts of violence and they do because it’s set up that these acts are justifiable and almost heroic at times. But I’m saying, “Okay, if you can applaud that, can you applaud this?” because this is the result of that gunshot in the head. It’s not nice. And even if the violence is justifiable, the consequences of the violence are exactly the same. The body does not know what was the morality of that act. So I’m asking the audience to see if they can contain the whole experience of this violent act instead of just the heroic/dramatic one. I’m saying “Here’s the really nasty effects on these nasty guys but still, the effects are very nasty.” And that’s the paradox and conundrum."
@@OddManeuverThank you, I had forgotten that film, maybe that is where I got it from.
Honestly I caught the stream so I've just hit the comments bur I kind of agree. I'm not sure there's such a thing as good and bad people, just good and bad decisions and actions.
That said I've met some completely remorseless awful monsters so I'm not as sure on the bad people side. Probably kind of depressing that I think people can be pretty much wholly bad but not wholly good
Remember:
Never take the necktie off, it is your best friend
You’d be betraying it to trade it out for something else
DON'T LEAVE YOUR FRIEND BRATAN.
you mentioned shutter island, and since that's probably right up your alley, have you considered discussing a film like this on your channel?
Absolutely! I'm going to try and mainline Disco until I finish it, and then I'm going to open up my content again to being on a broad variety of things. I'd love to do a breakdown on Shutter Island at some point, it's a favorite of mine.
@@eurobrady sounds good, looking forward to it.
BUT I have this feeling that sticking to Disco until you've finished it is going to be a project that you will always cherish looking back.
So glad you're doing this, as a fan and as a "potential patient" of yours ;)
keep up the good work!
So would it be correct to say that in DE we play as Harry's ego while the skills represent his id and superego? Eg. Electrochemistry is an aspect of id and volition is an aspect of superego
Hey, can I ask if you are gonna react to oshi no KO season 2 when it comes out, I really love your reactions
Was that political talk with another creator on your twitch? Forgot about it and am interested now.
It's always interesting to see Americans play this game and be confused and perturbed by the fact that the Hardie Boys feel able to admit to the murder whilst being confident that the cops will be powerless to do anything about it. In a police state like the US, of course, Harry would have no trouble going back to the station, calling up the SWAT team, and busting back into the Whirling with bullets flying, consequences be damned. In other areas of the world, like parts of Eastern Europe where this game was written, the Police are relatively weaker and other social institutions like labour unions are stronger, to the point that a scene like Harry's confrontation with the Hardies is within the realm of possibility.
Have you seen the tweet that went viral maybe a week ago about someone who was incredibly offended and looking for a new therapist because they challenged them on their beliefs of needing to wear a mask? The therapist asked something like "what would I need to do for you to get you to stop wearing your mask?" I would love if you could go over the tweet and give your opinion if that doesn't somehow breaks some ethical guidelines or something
Brady my dude, I just came from your stream with Rex. You brought her on to have an 'expert' (your own words) to help have a discourse on politics. However, ironically you seem to have a way higher base understanding of socio-economic systems than her, you just don't have the 'correct' terminology to describe it or the data to back it (neither does she lol). What you DO have is first hand accounts of how the political atmosphere effects people on an individual and psychological level. Full disclosure, I am a socialist. Most of us would (including Marx himself) describe what you do for your job as praxis (practice, as distinguished from theory), i.e a revolutionary act. It might not seem it (people think revolutions are inherently violent) but what you do is give people the tools to control their own life, which is what socialism is about. Workers being able to control what they do, rather than economic systems (rigged by the bourgeoisie) dictating whether they're in poverty or not.
I don't personally think everyone should have to know the ins and outs of theory to be involved in political discourse at all. We all have thoughts, feelings and opinions, vocalising them is important. However if you're somewhat a political commentator you should at least have read some important material and understand the many different points of view. Someone in the chat pointed out that the Overton window is shifted to the right in US politics compared to the rest of the world. Rex said this was untrue. It is OBJECTIVELY true, regardless of where you are on the spectrum. Most other countries have a Left (Labour) Centre (Liberal) and Right (Conservative) party system. The US does not. The US is also the country that just made abortion illegal, what did the 'left' party do about it? Nothing. I'm not trying to name and shame, but no wonder you are confused if you get your 'expert' political takes from someone such as her. She's entitled to whatever ideology she wishes, personally I think voting (even though necessary) doesn't really change anything and never has in history. Women's votes, black rights, a two day weekend was not achieved through voting, but affirmative action and protests. And this is why everyone hates moderates, it comes across as 'nuanced' but inevitably is just discussing for the sake of discussing, it changes nothing in the end. Don't let people like her let you think American can never be like Europe because "muhhh America different", that is right wing rhetoric that has infiltrated liberal discourse.
Appreciate this perspective! Yeah I mean I'm not really qualified to say who is and isn't an expert on things like this. I know she is more involved in the discourse on politics and broader social change than I am so I imagine she has a greater understanding of the academics or theory of this stuff. You're right that I'm quite involved with it in my work but I just don't really have the academic backing or terminology to define what I believe. To be honest, it's why I prefer to just 'stay in my lane' on what I am an expert on, which is the mental health outcomes of people's lives, which are affected by politics but aren't instrumental to know about to practice therapy. I don't have any interest in diving deeper into politics than I already have but I understand that knowing more about it is beneficial. And I do think America can (and should be) more like Europe 😅 nothing's going to change my opinion about that because I have literally lived there and worked in the same field there and so that's what I believe.
I felt the exact same way about this. It was a little frustrating what they got wrong at first and then it became like, actual misinformation and somewhere along the way I clicked off of that stream... my inner communard was quite saddened by the lack of empiricism. Thanks for typing up this wall of text because I wouldn't have.
Honestly, it's too hard for me to get it right with this subject. I don't know what's correct or not and I feel I'm not navigating the discussion appropriately. It's kind of wearing me down lately, so I think I'll just stick with talking about therapy 🤷
Honestly a lot of Disco Elysium's writing comes from the intersection of psychoanalysis and Marxism. An absolute TON of the game's artistic choices are have their origins in works by Marxist and post-Marxist psychological thinkers like Lacan, Baudrillard, Derrida, Debord, and Deleuze+Guattari. Hell, "Capitalism & Schizophrenia" (by Deleuze+Guattari) is like, two of Disco Elysium's most thematic topics! eurobrady I'd recommend checking some of those authors out, although they can be pretty thick academic works at times.
@@eurobradyYo please do forgive me if my comment came across insensitive btw, it wasn’t intended. She’s your friend and has own opinion and that’s cool. Just I have mine too 😎
I’m here for the therapy commentary. I’ve read so many books on politics and philosophy and engage with content regarding that. I also am part of the SWP here in the UK where we help organise protests, feed and shelter homeless and people in need (the floods have been wild here lately). What I’m tryna say here is damn I need a break from politics, and these vids give me a real relaxed vibe whilst learning more about psychology and even myself.
Please please please don’t get turned off by the politics frogs. I’ll fend em off for you if I have to hahaha. Just play the game, you might learn something, you might not. The point is that we’re learning something 🙏
I agree, all of Brady's scrutiny is BASED! lmao
what is a good person anyway
If you choose to ask Kim for his gun during failed authority check Harry actually doesn't point it at them, instead he puts it in his mouth. Skills comments and talking with Kim after hit hard. Kisses, kisses, kisses
'Finger on the eject button'
"A brief moment of raw panic flashes across the Lieutenant's face".
Kim knows. As does Theo.
I think it is extremely safe to say that not only you have to care *a lot* about politics to get an idea of who was the murderer but even for that, the way the creators did that reveal is not only a political commentary but a political *meta*commentary that points a huge target at the (Minor spoiler: very heavily left leaning) political views the game devs themselves support: as they'd love to put it, rigorous self-critique.
That's because he's not a leftist. He's what most of us would deride as a tankie. He talks exactly the same way about moral degeneracy and the failure of the current generation the way Rene and Measurehead do.
@@ved2360Kind of hijacking this to say that I think we should still understand them as being on the left, because theoretically they still are. It's just that "being on the left" is not inherently positive, and can still hold, for example, authoritarian values that we might associate with the right. But I think it's a mistake to cling to the left as some kind of pure group and everyone problematic on the left is actually a fascist.
Also if you haven't already I'd recommend reading Hal Draper's The Two Souls of Socialism. It's fairly related to this but I'm mainly just looking for an excuse to get lefties to read it.
@@2Links
No, he's a fascist alright. Lenin shot the anarchists when he took power. What have the likes of him actually done for _workers_ exactly? They never talk about democracy either. (And there was a workers rebellion he also put down.)
Code-switching in some Marx-sounding words and beating people over the head with theory doesn't make you any less fascist when you're running around doing the same authoritarianism and talking exactly the way the social conservatives do.
Evrart is the closest to that in game, but is an avowed social democrat. He's authentic about that part, but you see he does wind up just circling back to being a capitalist landlord in the miniature.
@@ved2360 If by never talk about democracy you mean that whenever they talk about democracy they're bullshitting sure. Which is one perspective. Personally I find it much more realistic that Lenin genuinely believed in his message, but that his conception of democracy was fundamentally flawed due to the reliance on "socialism from above" (which is where The Two Souls comes in).
But yes, obviously Lenin killed his political opponents with horrible consequences. What I mean is that theoretically this was not because he was a fascist (although you may draw parallels between them) but because his ideas and especially his actions for bringing about social progress were wrong. But unlike a fascist I see very little evidence that Lenin was trying to impose some kind of old order, only that his new order to bring about what he viewed as social progress (transition to a classless society) was deeply flawed. And to say the Bolsheviks did nothing for workers is maybe true in the grand scheme but certainly not upon the start of the Revolution. Unless you believe the workers sided with the Bolsheviks just because they were brainwashed and stupid, which I think is a very bad analysis.
Personally, I am a socialist, and I very much disagree with Lenin on many things. But I've given up on hating and dismissing attempts at socialism. Nowadays, I think there are definitely things to learn from historical movements, even if those lessons are about the failures of the Leninist model - among the most notable being that revolution without popular support is a bad strategy that leads to bad outcomes even when one commands the confidence of the working classes.
In my opinion, I think another lesson is that the greatest defense of progressive change is democratic grassroots participation, which is a lesson I would take not only from the lack of accountability and democracy in the Soviet Union, but also the overthrow of Allende in Chile contrasted with for example the restoration of the MAS in Bolivia following the right-wing coup. I don't agree with them anywhere near 100% but I think their examples can teach us about leftist development, because fundamentally they were in many cases attempting it. In contrast the fascist experience is not useful to socialists, or at least is only useful in how to resist, because fundamentally the intention of fascism is reaction, different from the desires for social progress of leftist movements.
(Just in case: spoilers for the end of Disco Elysium)
I think the Deserter is certainly a deranged husk. By the time we meet him he has become essentially a fascist, bitter and hating, having abandoned positive change. But I'm not sure he was always this way, and I think to dismiss him as always having been a fascist may be a convenient story for us to avoid thinking about how we could go from young and positive to bitter and hateful.
Spoiler warning for later events relating to the strike.
Also I think your reply got hidden/deleted, can only view it through the notification. My last reply was to only the first paragraph before the edit, so I'll just add that I interpret the use of the term "Social Democracy" in the game as more similar to how it was used before WW1 (when socialist and social democracy were largely interchangeable, and even very radical elements identified themselves as social democrats, like the Bolsheviks), rather than the modern understanding as reform-oriented parties seeking to establish "humanized" capitalism. Of course, many social democratic parties today do not even live up to that.
I think the game hints at Evrart genuinely trying to advance the workers' interests, even if he is corrupt. CMM mentions this, among others. His demands for the Wild Pines are deliberately outrageous because he wants a confrontation where Wild Pines is forced to withdraw and the workers can seize control of the harbor. You can interpret this as being him just wanting power, but I think there's also a possibility that he genuinely wants to advance the class interests of the workers. It's a matter of interpretation, although I definitely think the result of the union has advanced their interests, even if it has major problems regarding corruption, democracy, etc.
You're concluding that Harry isn't a good cop or a good person. I disagree with your analysis. The statements are (deliberately) vague and don't support either claim.
Let's go over them again:
1) Preventing someone from leaving for 20 minutes... qualifies as a dick-move in any context, but if that is the maximum level that this situation escalated into... Assuming the thought is not withholding much worse context, this wouldn't even register on the evil-scale.
2) Having a wank in a lockerroom. Again, no further context given. Sounds like something a stupid teenager does. Once. A source of shame, not a shameful deed by itself.
3) Crippling a suspect on the run. This one is a bit heavier weight on a cop's conscious, especially if the suspect was actually innocent. I notice, however, you added the assumption that Harry was drunk on the job back then. Maybe you're reversing cause and effect. The thought doesn't go into detail, but when I consider your odds of hitting the cargo belt while sober - I see a plausible reason why Harry started drinking.
TL:DR Evidence inconclusive. Harry doesn't remember enough to make a judgement call on his past.
I haven't concluded anything about him yet. I think if anything the majority of my commentary suggests I believe he is a good person.
You said you were interested in how characters worldviews are informed and changed by their situation and I think it's a shame you've decided to avoid the politics because that's what the game understands politics as to a large extent. Like you've already chosen not to accept the moralism thought but the text of that, to Harry, being a moralist is seeing how bad things are and willfully choosing to believe that it's ok and nothing needs to change. A coping mechanism even to the point that after you internalise it saying moralist things heals your morale. Similar things are true for other political views harry can adopt there all just different worldviews harry can have shaped by what he experiences around him.